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The Met Gala!
143 Plays3 years ago
Did you watch The Met Gala!? We've been waiting for art history and pop-culture's biggest night for some time now... This episode is all things “In America: A Lexicon of Fashion!” Thanks to an Artpop Tart, we're also diving into the works of Anna Marie Tendler in Art News.
For all of Artpop Talk's resources, click HERE.
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Transcript
Met Gala's Return and Cultural Impact
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Bianca. And I'm Gianna. The time has come. This may be the most important public display of pop culture and art history that we get in a given year. And finally, she has arrived and she has returned, the one the only Met Gala.
00:00:25
Speaker
May 6th, 2019 was the last time that we saw our beloved celebrities walk the Met Stairs celebrating with camp. Now they are back to benefit the new exhibit from the Metropolitan Museum of Art's Costume Institute in America, a lexicon of fashion.
00:00:48
Speaker
We also received an art new suggestion from an art pop tart on Anna Marie Tedler's photography, which will be sharing our thoughts on as well. There is way too much popping to get into, so let's talk it out.
Personal Catch-up and Wedding Stories
00:01:06
Speaker
All right. Hello, dear sister. I feel like I just saw you because they did just see you in person.
00:01:14
Speaker
IRL. And now I'm back in the flesh. Live and in the flesh. And now I'm back here. But as I like to say, let's get into the chitty chatty of it all. I love the chitty chatty. This is Gianna and I's new favorite thing to type in our document for the show is just some chitty chatty. Some chitty chatty. Some chitty chatty.
00:01:38
Speaker
Well, we did a lot of chitty chatting over the course of your little vacation. All the family was up here and good old PA for a wedding. And it was so much fun. Also, you guys need to know that Gianna and I danced to rain on me in public for the first time. And truly, there was no other feeling like it in the world. And it's unbelievable that we haven't heard that in a public space.
00:02:07
Speaker
I know, which is supposed to be that dance EDM album of the Lady Gaga century and we can't do it or hurt any freaking justice because we are continuing to sit in our apartments alone with no furniture.
Disappointment with the VMAs
00:02:25
Speaker
Well, speaking of Chromatica, on Sunday night, I watched the VMAs, and it was just, how was that a year ago? And did you watch the VMAs? OK, I did not watch the VMAs because we didn't miss much. For the past 48 hours, folks, your girl has been finishing up a commission, which I can't wait to share with you guys.
Anna Marie Tedler's Photography Series Discussion
00:02:50
Speaker
it is for Discordia and we did a lot of work on it for the album so you guys will get to see the finished product here soon but no I did not watch the VMAs and the conversations that we were getting today at the Met Gala about Kiki Palmer winning her Emmy I did want to kind of talk about that full circle moment and how
00:03:14
Speaker
were already back to this kind of award season and i just totally missed it where it went over my head because i was just so excited about the Met Gala and yeah we've been waiting for that and i wanted to focus on it but didn't we just talk about that like i i can't i don't want to talk about it again i know well it feels like we did but honestly julie and i watched it together
00:03:39
Speaker
last night. And I just felt like it was such a letdown. And maybe it's, of course, Jen and I are biased, but maybe it's because last year was, you know, the Lady Gaga trifecta. But but also full circle because Kiki Palmer hosted last year's VMAs. And she just does such a good job. I just want to squeeze her. I love her so much. Oh my god, I know. We'll get into her at the Met Gala. But I felt like even with
00:04:05
Speaker
COVID at last year's VMAs, it was so much more dynamic. And I know that's something we talked about with all the different spaces that they had set up and things like that. I don't know, this year's just felt like boring and static. And like, I'd say the two performances I was looking forward to were Casey Musgraves because her album just came out, which oh my gosh, I am
00:04:27
Speaker
so excited I'm going to go see her in February. And then Lil Nas, but Lil Nas' Montero album comes out in a few weeks. And his performance was great, but there was nothing riveting about the VMAs, which is normally what you watch it for. Those kind of shocking moments. And I just felt like, eh, it was fine. But it was kind of a waste of my time. I don't know.
00:04:54
Speaker
Well, I'm glad I didn't waste my time so things were taking one for the team. Yeah, no problem. On that note, should we get into some art news? Excellent transition. Seamless. Seamless. It's also 9 o'clock my time, 10 o'clock Bianca's time. Relate.
00:05:23
Speaker
It is past our bedtimes because yes, I go to bed early. All right, so let's get into some art news. So I am actually very excited to talk about this topic. It was suggested to us by an art pop tart, which we are so grateful for. Thank you for this.
00:05:51
Speaker
topic for today. So we are going to talk about Anna Marie Tedler. You all may know her as John Mulaney's ex-wife, but she is in fact an artist and an interior designer. She has a pretty broad scope of professions. When I became first familiar with her work, she did an interview with Architectural Digest because she was
00:06:20
Speaker
making vintage looking lamps and or I should say lampshades and she created this whole business where she was making just these really intricate lampshades that have this very maximalistic energy and had this vintage flair to them and really talking about how is this really niche perfection not many people know how to like make lampshades these kind of days so it was a very specific architectural
00:06:45
Speaker
digest piece on her and these lampshades. She has also gone through a lot of different phases within academia, from the arts to other fields such as psychology, I believe. So she's a very interesting person and very well-rounded. I think the more that I get to know her, you know, she's lived a lot of lives, have a lot of journeys, love that for her. But let's get into this
00:07:09
Speaker
post divorce phase as I think we would all be lying if we said that we weren't interested in. It has been in the media quite a bit. We all know John Mulaney is having a baby with Miss Olivia Munn. And that was a very, very new journey I did not see happening for John Mulaney. So
00:07:30
Speaker
Little recap, as I just said, John Mulaney has been speaking publicly about his breakup with his ex-wife, Anna Marie Tedler. He's talked about it with Seth Meyers. He's talked about it a little bit with Stand Up. So now her work, Anna's work, she's released this new series, and it's called Rooms in the First House. And it seems to reveal her state of mind after the split.
00:07:58
Speaker
In this series, she is particularly showing off her photography skills. Rooms in the first house is a whole photo series, which you could also say that it's a portrait series. Most of them reflect her in interior spaces.
00:08:14
Speaker
And they kind of have this vibe of something is missing, right? There's another person missing, perhaps. One of the images that you've probably seen publicized is her sitting at a dining room table set for two, and she's the only one there. So there's a little bit of that energy in all of the photos.
00:08:35
Speaker
Anna, however, describes her series as, quote, a portrait project exploring the multitudinous versions of self-confined within one's body. So this work also has been publicized a lot because it's in some kind of exhibition or art market. I'm a little bit unfamiliar with what exactly this is, but it's in Los Angeles and it's called The Other Art Fair.
00:08:58
Speaker
and she says that, quote, she works out of her home in Connecticut and says that this has been the largest artistic endeavor to date. So I have some thoughts about this artwork that, I don't know, I don't want to say that maybe they're unpopular, but I also just kind of want to preface before we go into it, is that the art pop-tart who shared
00:09:22
Speaker
this image and wanted us to talk about it seemed like she was really excited about this topic and she really liked uh Anna Marie and this is all to say to that art pop tart keep loving Anne Marie if you so do love her work and you connect with it uh these are just my hot takes uh about the artwork and how I feel about it and you know just how I
00:09:43
Speaker
kind of don't connect to it. So although that I love that Anna Marie is taking a new kind of journey in her artistic career, moving from more interior design to something like this.
00:09:56
Speaker
I think it's really cool for her to still show her infatuation and love for these interior aesthetics that clearly comes through, especially how they're in her house.
Critique on Tedler's Artistic Depth
00:10:07
Speaker
So I feel like that was really clear in these photos. She has clearly crafted a really beautiful maximalistic energy kind of space that reflects her identity. And I'm all for that. However, these portraits kind of give me like photo one
00:10:26
Speaker
portrait critique vibes. And it's kind of hard to explain. Maybe that's to say that maybe I think these photos are cliche or I just don't think that there's enough there. But I can't tell you how many like student photo like critiques I've kind of had to sit through of
00:10:50
Speaker
the white woman in a maximalistic, very decorative space and it kind of reflect their identity and so on and so forth. I just feel like maybe this has been done, although I think it's really interesting.
00:11:05
Speaker
that these images are coming out of post-divorce and I think those are topics that we should absolutely explore and I'm very very interested in that through the female perspective and through her voice. These photos just don't really do it for me. They're not my favorite out of this portrait series. This kind of also got me going down a little bit of a rabbit hole and just looking at some of her other artworks because previously to my familiarity with Anna
00:11:33
Speaker
I was just looking at these interior lampshades that she was making. And then it got me looking at her website, which is now revamped a little bit. She has a landscape series and these landscapes don't really do it for me. There's nothing really particularly exciting about them.
00:11:56
Speaker
They seem very kind of like mundane. There are some really beautiful ones of like an up close like flower image. So they're clearly mostly just there for the aesthetics, which there's absolutely nothing wrong with. We know she comes from an interior design background. It seems like these landscapes would exist to just be there for an aesthetic feature, maybe even in the home. You know, again, nothing wrong with that. They just don't really excite me.
00:12:28
Speaker
But Bianca, before maybe I kind of keep going, I know that I had brought this topic to you as I saw it from an art pop-tart. You were unfamiliar with a little bit of who she was and what her artistic background was. So what do you think of some of her images after looking at them?
00:12:46
Speaker
Yeah, so I had been familiar with her unfortunately through the lens that she was a comedian's wife and I hate using that verbiage but I think what you said earlier was the most poignant point about her new images that I actually am enjoying. I think I would rather kind of see a like a portrait of this
00:13:16
Speaker
interior that she's creating and how her background as someone who is working in interiors is kind of reflective of that personal trauma or personal circumstances that she's going through at the moment. And I think that that is probably the most interesting reflection of what's coming through in these images. But Gianna, I do agree with you that I'm just not really
00:13:46
Speaker
living for them. And I 1000% appreciate someone expressing themselves through an artistic lens and I in no way want to delineate how important I think that is. And I think it's really, it's really great. Artisan is an amazing form of expression that I think everyone should be encouraged to utilize. I think my problem
00:14:14
Speaker
And this may be my like an incorrect interpretation of what you're saying, but she's getting kind of clout or representation of these images and like gallery or exhibition like settings. And I think that I have problems with that, not in the sense that she's not, you know, a trained artist or she doesn't have the visual eye because clearly she does. She's someone who works in a creative field. But I think that having simply
00:14:44
Speaker
clout frustrates me in terms of artist representation on that grander scale because there are so many artists who have worked and are continually working for so long on really really amazing works of art but they are not famous or they are not tied to this kind of very
00:15:08
Speaker
popular topic at the moment. And that's where my kind of skepticism creeps in about this work. And, and again, it's like, I'm, I'm absolutely all for women in particular, expressing themselves like this. And I think in no way do I want to diminish that work and that form of conversation. But at the same time, I feel kind of conflicted because
00:15:39
Speaker
I don't know if it's a point of fairness, but the world isn't fair and the art world isn't fair. And that's just going to happen with artists. You know what I mean? There are so many women who don't get represented, people of color who don't get represented in the art world. Well, and here's the other tricky thing about this. And what I'm hearing through this conversation, I think we're both feeling the same thing, is where do we draw the line between
00:16:04
Speaker
possibly exploiting a position that you are in through celebrity stature and nature connections, but also you are in full right to publicize your marriage and your relationship however you want to and also take control of that. So it's kind of a little bit of like two sides that I'm kind of grappling with a little bit, but I think there in lies
00:16:33
Speaker
kind of why I wanted to talk about that today and those intersections of why I'm interested in it. And maybe see how you all are feeling as well. See how that's our pup tart feels who suggested this topic. Right.
00:16:46
Speaker
But I would like to point out a couple images that I actually do do find the most interesting. So on her website, rooms in the first house, she has a statement with it saying, quote, a reference to the first astrological house, the house of self. Another one that I've seen being publicized a lot, particularly on social media, which I do think is an aspect of this conversation that I want to talk about is her lighting a cigarette with a candle opera.
00:17:16
Speaker
To me, this feels like a white woman's Instagram kind of moment. Thank you, Bo Burnham, for we need to put that into our actual art historian dictionary. I feel like that is definitely a part of this. And I feel like that is, it feels like maybe just kind of like a trendy like photo shoot to me. So I think the way in which this image is getting
00:17:41
Speaker
publicized or regurgitated on social media has kind of made me question the nature of
00:17:49
Speaker
We're not really looking at it in a fine art realm. We're looking at it more in like a social media moment kind of realm. All of these photos too to preface are clearly very staged. So she's not like lying to us that these are casual, you know, moments that someone is just capturing. These are very much stage photos and we know that and she's knows that. So they're very stiff and they're very still.
00:18:14
Speaker
but it's still like I don't know like her heels are on the bed like what is this placement like if these if this is a portraiture like everything that you're telling me I'm supposed to pay attention to like how we think of a still life so you know you have your your block so little heels on the bed you're just wearing a t-shirt and you're eating your takeout food like cool like
00:18:36
Speaker
You know, what you said about the rooms being staged and her kind of posing I think is actually super fascinating in comparison to this idea of her as an interior designer.
00:18:48
Speaker
Because when you think about something like Architectural Digest or interior magazines, those photos that you see are like, you know, when you're scrolling through home design on Pinterest or something like that, the staging of those spaces is so clearly fabricated. It's like sometimes those photos aren't livable. You know what I mean? Like when we're thinking about interior design,
00:19:15
Speaker
Some of that is only for trendy aesthetic reasons and not for that kind of livable essence of what an interior space always is. And I think that that is actually super interesting comparison to think about just her background as a creative and then comparing that to what is coming forth in these images. And I also wanted to say that I think it's definitely worth us doing a full-length episode on the artist, Elisa Rivera.
00:19:44
Speaker
I actually got to meet her and work with her for an event and she's doing a full exhibition at my work in the spring. But Lissa is someone who plays with gender identity in the context of interior spaces quite often.
00:20:00
Speaker
but plays on very art historical traditions of space. And I think that what Lissa is doing with her work is what I'm seeing being attempted in these works by Anna Marie. And
00:20:18
Speaker
And again, it's not a bad thing. I'm just curious as to also what is Annamarie's art historical background. And if I was in the position to give her a critique, I think that is what I would want her to kind of focus on, or think more about the traditional context from what she's drawing upon, because I think that she's actually drawing upon what she knows.
00:20:40
Speaker
Which is, again, not a bad thing, but you and I are just reading it from a really different perspective because we're used to that kind of reevaluation of an interior space. And she's kind of pulling forth this static status quo of what interior design is. Not that interior design doesn't change, but the essence in which it is captured is very
00:21:06
Speaker
static. Mm hmm. Yeah, for sure. And also highly loaded as what you're referencing, which is what we're kind of pulling out of our brains right now, which is maybe why we're having a hard time making that connection. Right.
Fame and Art Representation
00:21:20
Speaker
Bianca, I did want to hear what you thought about some of her photographs of still lives. You can see them if you go to her tabs on her website in her interior page.
00:21:32
Speaker
I think that some of these photos of the interior space are so interesting and I've been dying for you to talk about them.
00:21:42
Speaker
So first off, when she has these constructive still lifes of flowers, certain objects, like a conch shell candle, I think those, like a tarot card, I think those photos are really, really interesting. She's got crystals. I really like that it plays with this kind of Trump-Loy-esque, hyper-realistic
00:22:04
Speaker
still life, but also has these modern elements in it, like a crystal and a candle and a tarot card. But the way that it's photographs really harkens back well, too, it makes me think of like an old oil painting. So if there's anything that I really, really enjoy, it's these still lifes that she photographs. However, I need to LOL at a couple of things listed in interiors.
00:22:32
Speaker
One of the photos that we have on here is the picture that we have all taken when we're at the Guggenheim, where we just look up and we snap a photo when we're in the middle of the spiral space. And it's really interesting. And it would be really easy to just look at that photo and be like, we all have taken that photo. But when you pair that with some other things that she has listed, it is kind of
00:23:01
Speaker
It's interesting. I don't know how I feel about it because she also has a photo of everybody taking a photo of the Mona Lisa in the Louvre. We have that there. She also has just photographs taken of what looks like
00:23:16
Speaker
taxidermy animals, maybe in the Natural History Museum. She also has just a photo in here from the camp exhibition from The Met. So literally, they're just photographs of other exhibitions. And I find that so odd and yet, maybe fascinated because I'm here talking about it. I mean, they're just photographs of other, of just exhibition spaces.
00:23:41
Speaker
Yeah, so this is definitely the natural history museum because that photo of birds, I was terrified when I walked. Bianca doesn't like birds. Oh my god, I was able to have a heart attack.
00:23:53
Speaker
Um, this is very odd. And I like, yeah, Jenna, I like these still lives. They're very beautiful. I think they're gorgeous. They're very pretty. I really like the way that they're lit. Yeah. And the way we've talked about Vanitas on this show before too. They're, they're very, very beautiful photographs. But I'm confused like this photo from camp, like,
00:24:18
Speaker
is she selling this or is it just like is this just like her mood board folder right mood board energy perhaps yeah that's the vibe that i'm getting and that's that's totally fine i'm happy for her if that's the vibe she wants to go who doesn't love the camp exhibition but i'm just confused
00:24:41
Speaker
Even in the camp exhibition, she has a photograph at the bottom of that page. And there's a little girl who's pointing to some of the dresses. And even then, OK, there's a smidge of a narrative in there. There's an external thing that you have captured that's not just the exhibition space. Right. But then some of the other ones are
00:25:05
Speaker
are literally just the ex and like even the composition in which she's taken these images, they're not even centered. I'm just I just wish there was like a little bit more of an explanation I guess for this folder. Because super weird vibe juxtaposition. The camp photographs juxtaposed with these like vanitas
00:25:29
Speaker
still lives are such a 180 like I feel like camp is a joy and pink and expression and outwardness and this vanitas you know we're getting like very moody memento mori reminders of sadness and loss and I just don't understand it's just weird to me that she would lump these really
00:25:58
Speaker
incredible, really beautiful, well constructed still lifes and then throw them into a folder with a picture from the Guggenheim.
00:26:08
Speaker
Right? And that's my point going back to what I said at the very beginning of this discussion. I'm so happy to see someone expressing that, but I'm just curious as to if she is selling these works, these photographs in any capacity. I can take a picture of the Guggenheim like that and sell it, but I probably wouldn't be making as much money as she would. And I'm not saying that she is doing that. I'm just curious, like, if that's the case, you know what I mean?
00:26:38
Speaker
Well, if you were going to... What I'm getting here is like mundane exhibition museum experiences, okay? Like that's a concept. But like, why are they all in the same category? I just don't get it. And it's maybe like... And then she just has a picture of here of some jewelry from what looks like possibly some ancient time period. I don't really know. There's absolutely no context and it's literally just jewelry in a display case and I...
00:27:06
Speaker
I just don't understand why that's in here. I just find that so odd and so fascinating.
Conclusion on Tedler's Work
00:27:12
Speaker
I was at work when I was looking at these and I thought, am I looking at my photos from 2013 when I went to the Guggenheim and thought I was a cool kid? Yeah. That's pretty wild. Interesting. We'll see what she does next. We'll see what maybe her new series is.
00:27:35
Speaker
you know, how this one pans out. And yeah, interesting. But I'm glad that somebody suggested this. And I'm glad that we can share our thoughts together and just process it together because this is very new journey, new experience, new artists that we're looking at. And I think we all are still kind of processing it.
00:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, and if any of you have thoughts about it, please feel free to send us an email at artpoptalk at gmail.com because we if we are missing something or if you have other opinions, I would be fascinated to know other people's thoughts on these. Yeah, truly. Well, Bianca, should we take a little break?
Met Gala Theme: American Fashion
00:28:15
Speaker
Let's do it. And then whenever we come back, we will be talking about the Met Gala.
00:28:51
Speaker
Alright everyone, welcome back, and if you're ready for some more weirdness, then get ready to talk about this year's Met Gala. Gianna and I are recording right after the Met Gala red carpet, so
00:29:10
Speaker
Throughout next week as well, we'll keep you updated if we learn anything else about some of the looks that we talked about, but we wanted to give you guys a fresh perspective right off the carpet. I am going to recap a little bit about the basis of the exhibition and about the theme itself, and then Gianna and I are going to get into just a free-for-all of our thoughts
00:29:34
Speaker
Alright, so what is this year's theme you might be asking? Because if you watched it and looked at our pictures, you might have no idea what the theme was this year. I have no idea. I have no idea. The 2021 Met Gala is focused on celebrating all things American fashion.
00:29:56
Speaker
Andrew Bolton, the Wendy U. curator in charge of the Costume Institute, felt it was time to re-examine American identity and fashion, especially as it has changed over the last several years due to both political and social justice movements.
00:30:14
Speaker
Bolton said,
00:30:31
Speaker
I really do believe that American fashion is undergoing a renaissance. I think young designers in particular are the vanguard of discussions about diversity and inclusion, as well as sustainability and transparency, much more so than their European counterparts, maybe with the exception of English designers. The Costume Institute will present a two-part exhibition.
00:30:57
Speaker
So this coincides with in America, a lexicon of fashion. And then in May, we're going to get in America, an anthology of fashion. Part one opens this coming Friday on September 18th. I'm very much looking forward to going up to New York to see the show. So we'll keep you posted on that. This marks the Costume Institute's 75th anniversary.
00:31:25
Speaker
The exhibit will be organized to resemble a home with intersecting walls and rooms that will establish what Bolton calls a quote, new vocabulary that's more relevant and more reflective of the times in which we are living. Pieces from Christopher John Rogers, Sterling Ruby, Connor Ives,
00:31:46
Speaker
And Andre Walker will be featured in part one of this exhibition. And then in part two, an anthology of fashion that opens on May 5th. So we are going to get another Met Gala on May 2nd to mark the opening of this part two.
Favorite and Least Favorite Met Gala Looks
00:32:02
Speaker
In part two,
00:32:03
Speaker
Bolton and the museum's curatorial team will work with American film directors to create a cinematic scene within each room that depict a different history of American fashion. So I really think that part two is what we were looking forward to with
00:32:21
Speaker
tonight in part one which we'll get into. So for this Met Gala, Timothy Chalamet, Billie Eilish, Amanda Gorman, and Naomi Osaka were the co-chairs. And then as Gianna and I will talk about, Kiki Palmer and Elana Glazer were the hosts of Vogue's on the red carpet official
00:32:40
Speaker
broadcast of the event so John I don't even know how we should start I guess the I don't know first thing I guess I'm gonna ask you is what was your favorite or give me a few of your favorite looks of the evening okay yeah few of my favorite looks honestly I maybe it was just because I was staring at her but I would stare at her forever
00:33:04
Speaker
I really did think that Kiki Palmer looked gorgeous she was giving me such like fairy godmother like Whitney Houston vibes I just like that movie holds such a dear dear special place in my heart and I know that her dress was like an homage to Diana Ross which obviously stan a queen I am like a huge huge stan of Tracy Ellis Ross as well she is such a fashion icon her and Chaparelli is like chef's kiss and
00:33:34
Speaker
Tracy Ellis Ross. Amazing. She's ridiculous. I just love her so much. Her her energy is just so like pure and good. And I just think like Kiki Palmer is the most like kindest joyous human being and that just like she's just a radiant, radiant, beautiful human being. So
00:33:55
Speaker
Those two looks between the two, iconic. Honestly, I did really think that Billie looked beautiful. It really kind of played into those other earlier looks that we were seeing with her in...
00:34:12
Speaker
Lingerie, sorry, I lost that word. That really kind of marked this new phase of Billie, which I love a new journey, love a new phase in an artist's life. So I thought she looks stunning. Oh, and also I...
00:34:26
Speaker
was so, so happy to see Mr. Dan Levy on the carpet. He just also so pure and so good. And Bianca and I, I think, of course, really resonated with his attire really playing into the art history of it all. We've talked so much about that imagery that he is wearing, and it was just chef's kiss. Yeah. So now tell me what were some of your least
00:34:55
Speaker
favorite looks. Okay, what was Frank Ocean doing with the... I texted Bianca, I said. Yes, like, what is America? If not, you know, the the epitome of an American project, which is Shrek, which we all stan.
00:35:16
Speaker
And at first, because Bianca watched on E, and I watched the live stream happening too. So I don't really know. I guess we'll find out. What were the differences? We saw really all the live stream was just...
00:35:33
Speaker
the Vogue kind of interviews with Kiki primarily. But at first, you know, Frank was just like walking the carpet and you couldn't see the front of the robot like Shrek baby or Green baby, whatever that was. And I was like, is he holding a robot? Because that baby is moving like very weirdly. And then I just I didn't like it. And then he came up and
00:35:58
Speaker
was wearing like an appropriated Dreamworks like logo had and it was interesting yeah so that that was an I mean I love a good bold look but that was interesting um I was also lol-ing just a little bit they they ask every person it's just like ah it's at your first time here it's my first time here they add she asked Addison Rae if it was
00:36:21
Speaker
her first time at the Met Gala. And I was like, no shit, it's her first time. Like, we were all super pissed that we didn't get on TikTok, you know, a year and a half ago. And for real, you know what I mean? So I think we're all a little bit salty about that. Not that she didn't look beautiful, of course, everybody looked beautiful. And I'm just a bitter woman. But I thought that was funny. Yeah, yeah. I am struggling right now with this idea that
00:36:48
Speaker
How could they not be gorgeous? You know what I mean? How could these outfits not be gorgeous? But I wasn't really getting anything from it, you know what I mean? And we'll get into that here in a minute about this idea of kind of Hollywood glamour that I think a lot of people just honed in on rather than playing with that idea of a lexicon of American fashion.
00:37:14
Speaker
so um i'm struggling a little bit i suppose uh i think i struggle because i also like want to preference like it's very very hard to it's like you're critiquing somebody's appearance which is not
00:37:32
Speaker
necessarily what this conversation is directed upon and maybe i need to preface that because i just don't want to sound like a mean girl but it's it's critiquing the intent of the event and and the fashion that you and your team and your stylists like constructed for this costume theme right and i and i just like i just like just don't want to be like a mean girl you know what i mean but it's not about the person it's about
00:37:58
Speaker
the idea. And one moment I was loling that just because we really don't stand Chanel was the only person that I heard say that they were wearing Chanel was Pharrell. But I liked his look though. He did. He looked great. And like, you know, I'm not saying like obviously like Karl Lagerfeld like made his
00:38:25
Speaker
his suit and he looked great. I really liked his glasses. I like the gold aesthetic of it all. But it was interesting to hear about how Chanel was wrapped up in the lexicon of American fashion. But again, neither. Everything affects each other, but we still got the big names. We still got Versace. We still got Gucci. Yeah, Gigi was wearing Prada, I think. And on the carpet,
00:38:50
Speaker
She was talking about like, yeah, I think that it's like really, you know, like she's Italian in American fashion, but she's Italian. I was like, no, it's hard because especially, um, you know, a lot for some of our male celebrities as well, who just come out and Texas who don't, who like, we expect some people to not take the costume theme into account. They just wear like a suit by, you know, a couture designer.
00:39:17
Speaker
And it's going to be those those big names. But honestly, I think some of the men were my favorite. Leon Bridges. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. I think what I was looking forward to the most was really this idea of like Western wear.
00:39:34
Speaker
Yeah, the the play on fringe I also really love but Leon bridges and that cowboy hat. Oh, I really enjoyed that so I I did think that was Interesting though a little bit because don't get me wrong Like I was expecting like gay cowboy energy and I and I did get some of that and I and I love that but also it was a the
00:40:01
Speaker
the only things that I felt stood out to me and this is just our first conversation going into it blindly after watching was okay it was either like British people just talking about old Hollywood glam or like people just kind of diving into like western French heritage some diving a little bit more intently into like gay cowboy culture which I like in
00:40:29
Speaker
more inclined to talk about and be more inclined to be interested in. But it was kind of just like a little bit of the two, it's like, oh, British people like Hollywood. You know, that's something that I was thinking about is, I was really interested to see that I thought that the people who are not necessarily from the United States, even though obviously these people work in the United States all the time,
00:40:53
Speaker
I was expecting kind of quote unquote foreign celebrities to really pull out what that quintessential view of American fashion is. And I really don't think that we got that, which was really, I was really expecting them to kind of turn up the heat a little bit, but I was, I was surprised like how lacking.
00:41:18
Speaker
It was, I guess, in their perception of it. And that's also really interesting, too, in coming from the designers, of course, because we had a lot of people talk about Ralph Lauren. I feel like any time it was like, oh, simple, Ralph Lauren or Michael Kors.
00:41:37
Speaker
okay are those are those the only two american designers that we're talking about because the rest of the time i felt like it was such a heavy focus on the kind of usual big european names and it's it's wild to read that quote from the curator you know talking about how you wanted to like revamp how american fashion is in need of this kind of reexamination in terms of
00:42:02
Speaker
size and identity. And I'm like, was Kim there? Was she wearing all black? She was the one who looked like a Dementor.
00:42:16
Speaker
Which didn't even also like that's a British piece of work honey like you miss the mark I'm I can't wait to hear more about Kim's look I think that's the one I'm most excited about because I almost saw a glimpse of it Kiki didn't didn't talk to her so I didn't I didn't really get to hear any of No, I didn't I didn't read anything about Kim, but I will say honestly, I feel like I
00:42:45
Speaker
I feel like Kim hit the mark with this kind of athleisure wear. I mean, I think that's part of Kanye's brand as well. Let's see if he's going as ye now, as Deanna might say. I think you should do it. I think that Kim actually hit the mark of playing on this idea of kind of like athleisure and we've been at home for a year and how kind of comfort in a way is
00:43:12
Speaker
is trendy and is in in terms of fashion and she had a face covering on. I'm sorry but like I think that Kim actually did a good job. Yeah that's super interesting. Yeah that makes me think. Wow I'm having like a moment. Yeah and in terms of like what we what I thought we were getting it more of I know I just mentioned the kind of cowboy look. I also love Lil Nas. Um okay Omash Tagaka but I'm sorry
00:43:43
Speaker
Like I wanted the gay cowboy from the... I thought this would be... I'm always gonna want the gay cowboy, but I am curious, I guess maybe can we talk about
Met Gala's Political Statements
00:43:55
Speaker
the connection between American infection and a suit of gold armor? It really, I don't know, I was a bit thrown off by it.
00:44:09
Speaker
And I love a good outfit change. I mean it was stunning. It was absolutely beautiful. But coming in, especially first in a royal robe and then you're a knight and then you're in a gold bodysuit. Everything that you're harking back to, royalty does not connect with American fashion. Right.
00:44:31
Speaker
I agree. I agree. As much as I love him, I was like, what's happening? He was like, you are the, you are the gay cowboy. Like, but he doesn't have to be that all the time. But I just, I think that's what I was expecting. Not expecting a piece of like regalia and like armor.
00:44:51
Speaker
I so from there, I guess I also have to say I loved Meg The Salion and I think this idea of kind of a 40s pinup girl
00:45:02
Speaker
was really beautiful and I think that's kind of a contrast to what a lot of what we got of that like oh this is Hollywood glamour. I was like you're in Hollywood glamour every day you know what I mean you're a celebrity you always get the opportunity to be kind of this like old Hollywood glam but I think that Meg played on that in a really fun way with this idea of the pin-up girl. I think she did but I that was something that I was actually expecting from her
00:45:28
Speaker
because we've seen her play off that motif in past performances. That's what she had done at, ooh, was it the Grammy performance or was that the VMA performance? With what? When she did the homage to top dancing and she dressed up in a more kind of old Hollywood glam pinup style. That was the Grammys. That was the Grammys. So just because I had seen her in these kind of
00:45:57
Speaker
past attires, these past roles. We saw Doja Cat do the same thing. I don't know. I was expecting that a little bit, but I adored her look and I really liked it a lot. I didn't mind it from her or from Billie and I appreciated how Billie... I really think she had to make a stance and go full in with a costume because she is part of this event this year and is one of the co-chairs.
00:46:27
Speaker
But I did appreciate how it was taken to a maximalistic place. Instead of like that dress, you could have seen it in a more kind of realism sense. But because it was like blown up so much, I did appreciate that to that extent. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:44
Speaker
Going back to that idea of the kind of pinup girl and what you were saying in reference to Meg's performance at the Grammys, I wanted to point out Barbie Ferreira's look with the pearls and it reminded me of Burlesque. It did. Which was spot on and that was part of her
00:47:04
Speaker
Her concept was to cart back to more of a, not just like an old Hollywood glam, but a burlesque energy. We also got some homage paid to Josephine Baker as well. So that was really cool to see. Yeah, but it definitely gave me Christina Aguilera in all the... Darling, what did you do for those pearls? Yes, that's all I was thinking about. No, she was adorable.
00:47:32
Speaker
The next thing that I thought we were going to get more of was denim. I was expecting lots and lots of denim and there were only like three looks with denim, but I actually loved Ben Platt. I have to say I loved his look. And then of course the gorgeous Lupita Nyong'o in that denim dress. I think
00:47:54
Speaker
I think she hit it. You know what I mean? I think she understood the assignment. She always does. She did it really well. Also in terms of completing the look, Lupita was inspired by artist Lorna Simpson and Simpson's celebration of black hair throughout her artwork. So I just thought
00:48:17
Speaker
Lupita had this really amazing kind of all encompassing aspect of that American lexicon of fashion, but also harkening back to what the curator was talking about with this reexamination of America and what it means to have that American identity. America is black, it is inclusive, it is diverse. And I really appreciated what Lupita was bringing with her look in that sense. I really loved it.
00:48:46
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah on on that note Bianca. I agree I did think I was gonna see a lot more denim in the sense because like the history of denim is so evolving when I think about it like at its birth at its origin and then also like in a pump sense like if you see a denim dress like you can't not think of Brittany and like exactly just like
00:49:07
Speaker
the pop culture iconography of it like she understood the assignment but on that note just come again because she gets an a-plus kind of completing that breadth of like not only are you talking about American fashion but you're also talking about your place
00:49:23
Speaker
in this country as an American or what that means to you. And I think most people did talk about that, at least in the interviews. And I thought that was interesting. So we did get a lot of people representing their home state. We had a lot of people from Chicago, Chance the Rapper, and then also to your point, Bianca Leon Bridges came through with a lot of Texan iconography. And that was an interesting conversation that we got to see with
00:49:52
Speaker
Kiki's convos because although he says he doesn't agree with the politics in Texas, that's still the place that he's from and he still wants to represent it in a positive light because there are still people there who are doing good things and hope for the best. And we got a lot of conversation about people thinking it was really interesting that
00:50:12
Speaker
this was the the year and of course we don't know what their calendar looks like and and how they've kind of planned out their their themes for years to come they might already have that all planned out but that this felt like it was the right time to do a in america the lexicon a fashion with such a politicizing and polarizing climate right now but i think a lot of people came through with
00:50:39
Speaker
talking about their different heritage, their different representation. And that's what America is. It is this melting pot of identity and culture. Right. And thinking about it in a political sense, we had Representative Maloney of New York show up in this kind of suffragette outfit, which I kept thinking, votes for women from Mary Poppins, which I loved. I think that is a great
00:51:07
Speaker
political statement to make in terms of American history, what's going on in Texas, how women deserve to have freedom over their own body. Cara Delevingne also made a political statement with a garb that said peg the patriarchy. I didn't see her. Yes. And AOC's dress that said tax the rich seemed to be a very apparent mockery of Joy Villa's
00:51:37
Speaker
quote unquote, build the wall dress from the 2019 Grammys. And I think having particularly women of political representation attend this event was nice to see, I suppose. And of course, AOC in her own right is kind of a fashion icon for women in business, women in the workplace. I think there have been a lot of conversations about her appearance, which isn't
00:52:06
Speaker
you know, necessary to the work that she does, but I think it nevertheless, of course, resonates with that up and coming reevaluation, that new generation of American identity and how women express themselves. Someone else that we need to talk about is, whew, Debbie Harry. Debbie Harry understood the assignment. She showed up
00:52:35
Speaker
And on our Instagram and Twitter, you can see that I likened Debbie Harry's outfit to Jasper Johns's flag. Well, Jasper Johns to something, it's hard to tell in that
00:52:51
Speaker
that work of art that we see so much with a flag but if I'm not mistaken it's the term encaustic which essentially is there's like layers and layers of of wax and paint on this and it's like very very thick and so I really also thought that was interesting Bianca that you know of course when you see like a flag like that I think our brains would work the same and we would go to that piece but the layering of it all made me feel like that was a really good
00:53:19
Speaker
a comparison. On top of that, Zach Pozen was with her. Zach Pozen was a designer. And I, you know, who's to say he might have just been joking, but it was my understanding that he was saying he was when he was trying to understand the assignment, he actually wore these jeans he or he wore that denim. And when he went, you know, trekking across the American landscape, whatever that looks like,
00:53:43
Speaker
those were the pieces that he used and how he formulated that idea. So I thought the designer kind of talking about that experience was interesting. Also maybe slightly privileged. Like I kind of was feeling like a little bit of like, is this real? Is this privileged? Or were you really trying to have a cathartic experience kind of? And in that very brief comment, my mind was kind of running all over the place. Yeah.
00:54:11
Speaker
I definitely see that. I think for me, I'm strictly coming at it from a visual perspective of Debbie wearing the gown itself. I think it's fascinating
Critique on Met Gala Execution
00:54:21
Speaker
that the gown is ripped apart.
00:54:24
Speaker
hoop skirt that kind of looks at this what we didn't necessarily get on the mecca which i'm glad we didn't but that kind of antebellum south gone with the wind idea of american southern fashion which people rightfully really stayed away from but i think debbie's skirt kind of likens itself to that but it's kind of ripped to shreds and i think that
00:54:50
Speaker
that fabric of the American flag is really kind of dissipating and obviously we're seeing that throughout our political culture but like the the fabric of this country is kind of falling apart at the seams which was in itself a really I think interesting statement in that garment. It's kind of interesting that you bring that up because if I'm not mistaken for the exhibition in itself
00:55:15
Speaker
the works of fashion on display i think at the earliest are it's like 1940s and onward and i think perhaps like that's maybe strategic because also we are trying this is a time of celebrating these different types of fashion and you know we don't want to celebrate pieces of of fashion that also
00:55:39
Speaker
like hark back to like a super, super divided and racist rhetoric. It's not the right time to bring that into a context that is more celebratory. So that's interesting. But we also did get looks that went back to like the 1920s with kind of like the flapper burlesque, old Hollywood glam energy. But if I'm not mistaken, and I'm sharing an infographic more about exhibitions that will be coming out this week, as especially we get more images of the
00:56:09
Speaker
pieces of fashion that will be on display. It was also kind of interesting to see, and Bianca, how you talked about earlier, how some of the concepts people were talking about maybe is what we're most looking forward to, which is the part two of this, which is really that quilted, that patchwork nature of not only like fashion, not only artwork, but
00:56:36
Speaker
But of our country and how it's documented. And so I think that kind of like melting pot concept that we're talking about plays very, very well into like the literal and the conceptual aspects of patchwork. And so I'll be more really, really interested and we should definitely do an episode about patchwork and about quilting and textiles because that's such a huge
00:57:03
Speaker
I mean, we could break that up until like a million different episodes. It's intense. Right, but how that's going to come through in fashion in the next exhibition, particularly if they're looking at it through a cinematic lens is going to be pretty interesting.
00:57:21
Speaker
the things that i was surprised i didn't see and i was kind of looking forward to and perhaps this is my bias because i've been talking to jul about him and we recently kind of got a netflix show about him but holston yeah holston was such like an epic empire in american fashion and has such a specific time frame too and touched so many
00:57:44
Speaker
of our icons. And I only got one little reference to him. And it was so minute. I can't even remember who the person was who was talking about him. But I was very surprised. We got so much about like, oh, understated, chic, Ralph Lauren. And I'm like, you want to talk about like, kind of like quintessential, like basic, kind of
00:58:06
Speaker
pieces of fashion, Halston not only touched that, but we also only got a little bit of Studio 54 vibes from Camille Cabello, and I would have loved to see more of that era. Where was the disco? I was surprised by that. That was an era we just got a glimpse of, and as much as I thought Camille Cabello looked absolutely stunning, and I love that purple energy that reads so clearly, I just wanted more.
00:58:35
Speaker
Yeah right, there were a few people who definitely gave me kind of a disco disco glam which I really liked. What you said about simplicity was also heavily mentioned regarding Casey Musgrave's outfit and I thought
00:58:51
Speaker
It wasn't my favorite look, but I thought it did kind of fit the bill, I guess, and not like, again, like that Ralph Lauren, you know, simplicity. I think she did kind of hit the mark as far as the theme goes. I don't know. It was, you know, it wasn't my favorite look, but I liked it. Direct connection to equestrian fashion. She had the writer boots. It wasn't my favorite. I mean, also,
00:59:21
Speaker
It's just hard to, and part of me knew I would feel this way. It's like what I tell guests at work when they're like, which exhibitions should I start in? Which place? Well, I recommend starting in this space because this space is highly, highly stimulating. And if you come back down and you're in this space, it's gonna feel maybe like a disappointment because it's not a stimulating. So like, camp was so, so stimulating.
00:59:50
Speaker
that's a great point jana that's a really really good point it is hard after two years to come and the last thing we got was like camp energy and people like
01:00:03
Speaker
understood the assignment. Ew. And like, Casey Musgraves, like, perfect. Oh my gosh. Perfect constructed Barbie look. Oh. And to get the like writer boots after that, I was just like, Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah, I adore humongous Casey fan this album. Oh my gosh. Everything fabulous. Lover. Yeah, it was just I don't know something about it. I was like,
01:00:30
Speaker
you're doing it well, you did the work, but it was just like, yeah, it wasn't exciting. You know, maybe one of the last things I guess that I want to talk about is this idea of the roses. We saw a lot of roses on the carpet and I think, you know, in thinking about
01:00:51
Speaker
looking to the future, I guess, with the cinematic aspect, I kept thinking about American beauty. And I don't know, the idea of the rose was just so popular this evening that I'm curious if American beauty is that starting point for this. And to me, oddly, like, I don't know.
01:01:16
Speaker
To me, like, okay, when you say terms like American beauty or American Rose, those are like colloquial like terms that we use to describe, particularly like women and the culture that is not representing like historic moments in faction. That is like playing into like a quirk, a colloquial term we used to like describe people. So I'm like, I don't know. It didn't really.
01:01:43
Speaker
I would have been fine to see like some of that, but the fact that so many people did it, it made me feel like you didn't really read the description of what I asked for. Yeah, I don't know. It was weird. There were also a lot of just like floral themes in general. I thought lots of stars, which I get definitely lots of stars, but lots of flowers. Like Irena Shaik and Lily Reinhardt, they were also almost wearing like the same outfit, which I thought was really interesting. Like this like bright floral Takashi Murakami,
01:02:13
Speaker
vibe. I don't know the florals were just really strong. I must there's a lot there. I mean, like there's a lot I could say and even just pulling up the Instagram and getting to see more people. There was a lot of people that I didn't get to see. I think what I expected is perhaps what I got. So in light of this year, and not setting expectations for myself or for
01:02:41
Speaker
anything really, which is somewhat depressing. I'm not disappointed.
Reflections and Audience Engagement
01:02:47
Speaker
I don't know. Is that bad? No, I'm not like, I'm not disappointed. But I'm also not jumping out of my seat enthusiastic for the looks that I got. I'm also very, very sad. You know, Gaga wasn't there. Because the only reason why I watch anything is for her.
01:03:10
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I feel it was great. It was great to have it back. I love a good art historical red carpet session, but hopefully next May we get a little bit more blown out of the water. But I am really excited to go see the show and I'll keep you guys updated whenever I go see it. Maybe it'll provide a little bit more context I like from the trailers of the show.
01:03:37
Speaker
how things are broken down by this kind of different vocabulary. I think that's really interesting. And I wonder what other ideas people would have for garments after they view the exhibition tonight. So. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm always excited for the little videos that they put out. The One for Heavenly Bodies was really good. And those will be fun to see. And so I'm sure we'll reshare those. But yeah.
01:04:07
Speaker
I hope this episode was good. How do you feel? I had fun, but this is what I love to do. Yeah, me too. I'm not mad about it. How could I not mad about it? No, no. Well, we would love to hear your thoughts on the Med Gala as well. Always follow us on social media, at artpoptalk, at artpop underscore talk on Twitter.
01:04:34
Speaker
Please email us at artpoptalk at gmail.com. We also have a Buy Me a Coffee account if you like what you hear. You can donate to the show. You can also rate and review us on Apple Podcasts. That would be much appreciated. And head over to artpoptalk.com to sign up for our newsletter. We have a very, very exciting partnership that is flourishing with Cultural Journal.
01:05:00
Speaker
And they have a lot of big announcements that we'll be highlighting in our monthly newsletter. So head on over, subscribe. All right, everybody. And with that, we will talk to you all next Tuesday. Bye, everyone. Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci Fink and me, Gianna Martucci Fink. Music and Sounds are by Josh Turner and Photography is by Adrian Turner.
01:05:28
Speaker
and our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.