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Team Player w/ Lindsay Price
44 Plays1 year ago
This week I sit down with Lindsay Price of Lindsay Marie Price Design Co.
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Transcript
Introduction and Sponsor
00:00:28
Speaker
The American Craftsman podcast is sponsored by Hayfla. Hayfla offers a wide range of products and solutions for the woodworking and furniture making industries. From hinges and drawer slides to connectors and dowels, sandpaper, shop carts, wood glue and everything in between. Exclusive product lines such as Lux LED lighting and Slido door hardware ensure that every project you create is built to last. Learn more at hayfla.com.
Meet Lindsey Price of LMP Design Company
00:00:54
Speaker
Welcome back.
00:00:56
Speaker
Rob is a little under the weather today, so he's not joining us, but I'm here with the wonderful Lindsey Price of LMP Design Company. Yeah, that's the shorting version. Lindsey Marie Price Design Company. Lindsey Marie Price Design Co. Co. Is it in full, but usually emails LMP Design Co. Yeah. Interior designer, architect.
00:01:22
Speaker
Yes, just not licensed yet, but doing that. Close enough, close enough. The bills and the time, you know, are all in there. Yeah, we've had discussions about the student loan crisis.
00:01:35
Speaker
Personally. Yeah, yeah. And on the podcast. So I guess probably the best way, you're only the second interior designer we've had on the podcast. Okay. Probably best to tell everyone a little bit about yourself, how you got into interior design, what led you to want to get into it.
Influences and Journey into Design
00:01:58
Speaker
Okay. So I started out
00:02:02
Speaker
When I was younger with my mother, she would always be rearranging rooms, fixing stuff. She used to refinish furniture for fun. My dad's a carpenter, so he worked for New York City for the union. So everybody was always doing some kind of project.
00:02:21
Speaker
So I was surrounded by that my whole life. And then, you know, when I was trying to decide what I wanted to do, going all the way back to high school, I was in an art major program. So artistic, obviously, but my whole life kind of, you know, was interested in art, puzzles, like all that kind of stuff as a young person. And then, you know, in high school, when they gave you the opportunity to kind of
00:02:47
Speaker
almost pre-college, pick kind of what direction you wanted to go in. The rest of school, I was like, hate it. But art, I was like, it was dope. And you know, just creating something from nothing was always fun. So I was like, what could you do? Because art doesn't
00:03:05
Speaker
No offense. It doesn't make any money. So, and you know, I have family members that were like, painting's not going to like pay your bills kind of thing. Yeah. We've had that discussion here, you know, with furniture. It's like, you know, we want to be creative and make artistic furniture, but people don't buy that, you know? There's such a small percentage of people who appreciate it.
00:03:27
Speaker
we do it for the love of ourselves. Because we love it and we want to create. So I'm trying to figure out that since I wasn't born into cash. So being an artist or something like that was not going to cut it. But finding something that I could channel that into. So interior design was always appealing because you got the instant gratification of doing something and changing a space really quickly. And I never even thought about architecture
00:03:58
Speaker
kind of as a direction. And then I was at Brookdale, completed the interior design program. And at the end of that, you have to take some classes in architecture. So I did that. And then I met Ed O'Neill, some architects, and he runs the program over there. So when he had me in his class, I was taking his class because it was towards the end. So I was running out of classes to take.
00:04:21
Speaker
to complete the degree there. And I was taking graphic glasses with a guy who passed away, but they were all about like, trying to push me in the direction of their field. You know, not boosting myself up.
00:04:37
Speaker
I was good at all of the areas. So it's really, and I feel like
Satisfaction and Challenges in Interior Design
00:04:43
Speaker
if you're just, you know, artistically inclined, you could kind of pick whatever direction kind of suits you. So you're usually good at more than one thing.
00:04:52
Speaker
So I did that and then Ed kind of took it upon himself to try to get me to go into architecture and think about going into architecture because he saw something and I was just taking it to get out and go to New York School of Interior Design. I was like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll think about it. I was like, that's not my plan.
00:05:17
Speaker
Like the city sounds fun. Yeah, I was like, I want to go to the city, do all that fancy stuff. And, you know, I thought about it for her. I was not going, like I was finishing a semester before the fall semester. So I was like, I'll think about it. And at the time I talked to my grandmother, she's like, what are you nuts? Like, just do it if you don't like it. Like you could always go back. And I'm like, that makes perfect sense. Sounds so easy.
00:05:39
Speaker
I was like, you know, at the time you're racking up student loans, you don't even think about it, right? So you're like, ah, who cares? Like, I'll just put another year. When you're that young, you're like, yeah, whatever. I'm going to make so much money. I'm going to pay it off. Who cares?
00:05:56
Speaker
So I was like, okay, well, I'll try it. So I signed up to do like, I put that on hold at New York school of interior design. And then I signed up to do a semester of architecture. Loved it as well. I always thought even at that kind of naive stage that I was like, well, I could always use it if I wind up hating it.
00:06:19
Speaker
to just know more as an interior designer. Yeah. I mean, I think it's like, it's kind of like carpentry where like, you know, a finished carpenter is like an interior designer and then like a cabinet maker is like an architect. You know what I mean? Right. It's just like another level of knowledge and it never hurts, right? Like even when I'm on a job site and, you know, you're just watching what other people are doing.
00:06:43
Speaker
Not that everybody does that, but you know, I have a disease. So I'm like watching what everybody's doing and then you kind of take that into consideration when you're designing something or drawing something because you know more. So thought the same thing that even though I didn't know I was thinking it and completed the architecture program.
00:07:00
Speaker
at Brookdale with Ed actually graduated from it didn't just transfer like some people do. So I wound up graduating from it and then going to Drexel to finish out my degree in architecture so fully went to school for architecture have my associates in interior design bachelors in architecture and now you know.
00:07:19
Speaker
obviously working the whole way through it, which was another thing that was kind of challenging. It's challenging anyway, the program of architecture. It's very in-depth and very intense and some people just, you know, you're not built for it. Then trying to do it while you're working a full-time job. Drexel has a night program, which I was a part of. So, you know, it's just intense. So did that.
00:07:48
Speaker
took me only like from start of going to Brookdale, starting into your design to the end, it was 12 years of school. So no big deal.
00:07:57
Speaker
A bargain. Just a bargain. I'll pay for it until I'm dead. But you know, it's all good. But that's how I kind of got into it. And you just kind of get addicted to the projects. And doing actual work, obviously, just either makes you or breaks you. And I just always had
Transitioning from Education to Real-World Projects
00:08:19
Speaker
interest from the gate. And then being able to like,
00:08:24
Speaker
The best part, I think, of what I loved about school is obviously very different from doing a project in a studio to then coming out to the real world, not only dealing with clients, builders, bosses, everything involved, very worlds apart.
00:08:41
Speaker
So doing a project in school, what I loved about that was that everybody got the same piece of paper with the same, you know, criteria on it. And like the next, when you had to come back in with your first ideas was watching, like we all read the same stuff. Like you suck, you suck, you suck.
00:08:57
Speaker
No, that's what I did. But it was just like awesome to see kind of what everybody got from it because you couldn't... I mean, that's with anything in life, right? You could read the same exact stuff, you could have the same exact thing and you're just going to do totally different than what somebody else did. So that was really my favorite part and that's kind of where the passion for it comes from is that I just love listening to a client, being able to decipher kind of what they're looking for and being able to
00:09:28
Speaker
I'm able to put it together and bring them something. And they're like, oh my God, most of them are like, oh my God, this is exactly what I was thinking of or better. And it's very rare that you get somebody that you're just totally in left field. So that's really my favorite part of it. And that's kind of what drives me in really any project and problem solving situation there. But that's kind of where it all germinated from was just being interested in art as a kid and
00:09:55
Speaker
than trying to blend it with real life. So I wouldn't just be sitting in a studio with a bunch of artwork. Nobody will look at it. And obviously, it's kind of a gift and a curse because you're always surrounded by it. So you're surrounded by architecture and interior design, good or bad, always. Yeah, there's lots of bad. Lots of bad, for sure. But that's kind of where the passion comes from. And that's why I got into it and why I stay in it.
00:10:24
Speaker
Yeah, we're always same thing, like kind of chasing that gratification from the client, like on delivery day, like getting the reaction. I mean, that's the best part, right? Like when they first are exposed to it. And depending on the client, that's either good or bad. But some people just don't give you anything at that moment, too. I've experienced that where they'll like call me later, like elated about it. But in the moment, they like don't know how to react. So that's there, too.
00:10:50
Speaker
It could be, I think, overwhelming for people. It really is. And then hard to articulate. Or show excitement, or some people have no emotions. You get that too. Where you meet somebody, you're just like, oh, okay. Yeah, delivery day is like the most nerve-wracking day, or install day, whatever. Because there's all of this fear that
00:11:14
Speaker
I mean, we do the renderings and everything and the client sees it, but there's always this fear that you're going to show up and put it in and they're like, wait a minute. What is that? Oh, 100%. Because you know as well as I do, as much as people love to say that they could read drawings, they sometimes cannot and people don't see things three-dimensionally. And sometimes they pretend like they do or they do believe that they are seeing
00:11:39
Speaker
what you think they're seeing. But as questions start to pop up, at least for me, you see that, oh, you're not seeing that. You don't get it. And not in like a bad way. It's just that like now I have to figure out how to show it to you in a different way. And that even goes with like 3D renders and stuff like that. Sometimes people still don't see it. It's just like back in the day when some people just couldn't read a map. Like it just is a thing that people either have or don't have. But you could tell. And that's the fear is that, oh,
00:12:09
Speaker
hold on you didn't see what I was showing you for months and months and months and now you're here and you're like wait a minute that's not what I thought it was gonna be or and then the shock you're just like inside you want to murder everybody and you're like well it was actually it is exactly what I showed you you just didn't see it
00:12:27
Speaker
I mean, I struggle personally with these just working off of plan views and elevations for me. Yeah. I have the ability to wrap my head around it somewhat because I've just had to do it so many times, but I really need to draw it in 3D and be able to move around and look at it myself to really get to wrap my head around it. 100%. And it's just different levels, right? Yeah.
00:12:55
Speaker
you understanding in three days because you build it so you can kind of like equate, you know, real life to like, okay, that well, that's the box. And I know what that looks like. Some people, you know, it's like literally, if they don't see it in their space, they're not, they're not getting it. Scale is really hard for a lot of people.
00:13:13
Speaker
It's just challenging, but it just makes you more creative to try to show them different ways. And some people are so far that you just have to wait till it shows up, unfortunately. But most people could kind of get it as you go along. But 3D helps. Yeah. So this, for example, somebody sent us this and that pink thing there, it's like a...
00:13:39
Speaker
A plastics company. Yeah. That's my trying to divvy it up. A plastics company. Yeah. And it's like displays and they have those acrylic, you know, they make all these like little bottles or something, but it's like, so then you show the client, that one's kind of washed out. You know, you show the client something like this.
00:14:05
Speaker
Right, a lot. It's a lot easier to wrap your head around.
Overcoming Design and Client Communication Challenges
00:14:09
Speaker
And it's like, wow, look at that. It has the LED lighting. 100%. And that really does send it home for a lot of people because that looks very realistic. Yeah. Which is dangerous too. Yeah, exactly. You send this price over, this insane price, and this helps justify it to the client.
00:14:31
Speaker
Well, yeah. And usually like things like this are super custom, right? So it's not like you could show them a picture of like something that you've already done or something that exists out there. Yeah, like a mood board isn't gonna... No, it's not gonna cut it. And actually this designer sent one over and I'm like, looking at it, I'm like, this is like, most of this is totally irrelevant to this project. That's some, you know, some interior designers and that's kind of what they teach you in school, which is why.
00:15:00
Speaker
What helped me being an architecture is you kind of figure out what's necessary and what you should show. And kind of takes out a little bit of the fluff of the nonsense that is taught.
00:15:17
Speaker
Pinterest is doing very well for themselves. And it does really... I mean, there's great things and awful things about it, but it does really help a lot of that kind of middle grounds of people who can't visualize. It really does help them. And for me, I love Pinterest, Houzz, any Instagram, anything that somebody could send me a picture of what they like, because
00:15:38
Speaker
that tells me a story, even if they don't know why they like the image, I could kind of see where their brain is. And I'll pull things that they don't know that they like from it, you know, and kind of work it into whatever they're looking at. That's one of the things we do. It's, you know, we have this questionnaire on the website where like you're a new client, you reach out, we direct you to the website to fill out this questionnaire that basically goes through the project, ask some basic questions.
00:16:04
Speaker
And then after that, the first step is like, all right, send us some inspiration photos. And then same thing, pictures of just stuff that you'd like. 100%. It doesn't have to be exactly what you're looking for. Right. You could want a bookcase and you could send a picture of a couch. I don't care. Right. Just send me stuff that you like so we have somewhere to start. 100%. And I always think that's the best way to do it because, again, going back to
00:16:28
Speaker
if people understand or not, they could think that they're telling you exactly what they like. But then you see a picture like, oh, that's not what you were describing. So you're giving me, you want to start out with the best kind of suitcase of knowledge and let me pick from what we professionally know is important rather than you thinking that you're going to tell me.
00:16:52
Speaker
And even then sometimes it, you know, that's like my wife's a, is a hairstylist and same thing. They ask people for like pictures, like, and then like, you know, she'll do their hair and they're like mortified. It's like, it's like, yeah, well you're not a, you know, a whatever Jennifer Lawrence.
00:17:14
Speaker
Well, the best is, and you know, I did the hair salon at White Opal. And back in the day before Cass was there, I would show her inspiration pictures and be like, listen, I know this is not even my hair texture or volume, but I love it. And it was like a Rihanna, you know? And I'm like, I just, she's like, that's a wig.
00:17:35
Speaker
But it's, you know, I still want to see what you like, even though you might not be showing me exactly what you're going to get. It just tells you more about the person and kind of what direction they're going in. And if they're looking for me, it's always like, are you looking at pictures of, you know, 10 million dollar houses? And how realistic are we going to get here? Yeah, you know, without telling your dream and then I'll crush it is what I always say. You're at McDonald's and you're looking at the menu for, you know, you don't have filet mignon. Why?
00:18:05
Speaker
I actually, I drove by White Opal on Saturday. I was in the ocean. I was going back home and I saw like a ladder set up in the windows. Yeah, they're pulling it together, but the contractors, I think now we're at the stage of cleanup, which is good after all the repairs and stuff. Yeah, we were talking about the, we didn't give any specifics, but talking about the paint to paint the buckle with the ceiling.
00:18:33
Speaker
Yeah, that's all solved as far as we know right now. So that's good. The color is correct, which is beautiful. It's no longer glowing warmth. So, you know, there's a million whites. Yeah. Yeah. Lighting in a salon is huge. Gee. Color, lighting.
00:18:53
Speaker
just seeing the tone of your hair when it's done next to another color shifts color. Yeah. I was a hair model on Sunday. Oh, fancy. Yeah. Some educators in from Canada. Nice. These two dudes and a guy was like super theatrical.
Continuous Learning and Professional Development
00:19:12
Speaker
It was a little bit, you know, it's not my, I was like having anxiety just being there with all these people.
00:19:18
Speaker
Oh, I love that kind of energy though. Yeah. I mean, my wife was, she was cutting my hair, but this dude would like, you know, like tag in like, and he would have this like flippy comb. I'm like, what the fuck is going on here? You're like, please don't ruin my hair. Well, your wife could always fix it though. So that's the bonus.
00:19:34
Speaker
He did. He had some good tips for it. Yeah, those educational classes that they do are like... Yeah. Well, they do that a lot of white opal, right? Yeah. Yeah. She does her own and then she has other people come in. I mean, that's in any profession, right? Like you want to keep learning or you're dead. So... Yeah.
00:19:51
Speaker
You got to keep going. You got to keep furthering kind of what you're exposed to where you're just going to be stagnant. Yeah. Yeah. We talk about that all the time and you know, Tom. Yeah. And we sort of, we know each other prior to Tom. I mean, you know Rob through Tom, but we met on a couple of jobs when I was working for Paul. We always talk about how Tom would say, I've been doing it this way for 40 years. It's like, that's a problem.
00:20:15
Speaker
good as far as you know how to do that. But always expanding kind of, I always think if you don't continue to learn, you die. Like in any realm, that's like when people retire and then they are depressed and die because they're not working. So if you're not keep learning or you're not pushing yourself, like, you know, what is that?
00:20:39
Speaker
Yeah. Like if you found the best way to do this one thing 40 years ago, then you should be like retired as like a millionaire right now. Right. You nailed it. Yeah. It's like you should be doing that one thing every day. Yeah. But I think that's personality based too, right? Like it's either you're a driven person who kind of wants to keep improving or, you know, and not saying that Tom or anybody else is making that conscious decision, but like,
00:21:05
Speaker
You could be but like, you know, sometimes people just don't have the personality that and you know, from working on a construction site, there's people who work and then there's people who just slide by the day and you know, wait for lunch and you know, you can fall victim to the grind and oh, yeah, you get all caught up and you get burnt out and it's just like
00:21:25
Speaker
I mean, burnout is 100%. I'm running on burnout. Yeah. Every day is like a fire. You're like, I just need to put out this fire. I don't care. I know the other one's burning right next to it, but I just need this one to go away. I've had plenty of fires on my own. I just figured out we've been having issues with our finish. Um, so we got that spray booth, like, uh, when was that? Maybe. Was it in the summer?
00:21:51
Speaker
Yeah, either late summer or like early fall. It must have been the summer because... I think I remember seeing it on the stories. Yeah. On these stories. And we were having... Oh, so it was when we were doing the salt boxes. So we delivered those
00:22:09
Speaker
I don't know. Anyway, it doesn't matter. We're having issues with bubbles. I will not continue to listen if I don't know exactly when you bought it. Everybody's going to have to look back and find out. We're having issues with these bubbles in the finish and we thought it was water in the lines because we're using a conventional HVLP off the compressor. So we thought it was water in the lines. So we bought the Apollo, which is a turbine. So it generates its own air, clean air.
00:22:36
Speaker
And I was still having it. I even had this woman Jackie over here who works at Tim, you know, timber. Manny from Tom's worked over at CNC shop. Yeah. So they're over here now in Kingsburg. They have like a 20,000 square foot shop. Yeah.
00:22:52
Speaker
Small little tiny space. So I had Jackie over here trying to figure it out. You know, I've been racking my brain, looking on YouTube, Google, reading forums, couldn't figure it out. So finally yesterday I hit up Dan from United Finishes, which is where we buy our finish. And he actually like set up the same turbine, took finish from the same lot and tried to replicate the issue. He couldn't
00:23:21
Speaker
couldn't replicate it. So he's like... So that's an equipment issue? Well, he said... Not throwing anybody under the foot. The only thing that I can think of is Chris, his business partner from New Doors, mentioned maybe it's like a static electricity problem.
00:23:40
Speaker
So he said, take a piece outside, you know, outside of the shop and spray it, which I couldn't do because it was raining. But I went all the way over to the other corner of the shop, put cardboard down on the forks of the forklift and sprayed a piece there and it like laid out like glass. And I'm like, what the fuck?
00:23:55
Speaker
And it's been months. I've been dealing with this for months. Nothing to make you want to pull your hair out. Yeah. So we delivered like a couple of things that I was like super unhappy with the way like, you know, it had like this. That's wild. Just a rough, you know, and luckily we skated by and it's like, I hate to do that to the client. Of course. You know, kind of is what it is at this point. It's like we gave them the best that we could. If they're listening and we know you are.
00:24:17
Speaker
Well, yeah, the one guy even said something. This one guy reminds, we've talked about it before, he's just like Tom. He's a little cooler than Tom, but very similar personality. And he's like, yeah, you know, he's like, your finishes is like a little bit gritty, but he didn't care. So anyway,
00:24:38
Speaker
Found some grounding issues with the spray booth, which were causing the static electricity. So finally today I'm spraying and it's like laying out flat. I'm like, thank God. Yeah, how happy? Just a few months of torture. I don't want to jinx myself because it's still early in the, you know. You've got lots of woods to knock on, kid. Yeah, I'm only a second coat on the back of these. So it's like I got a one and a half more sides to do. But way more promising now, you know.
00:25:06
Speaker
It's so nice when you find the issue to something, even if it's not that long where you're like, oh, perfect. And I'm spraying like hundreds, some odd dollar a gallon finish that I'm just then just like sanding off completely because it's, you know, rough. It's brutal. Finishing is tough. Yeah. And that's what everybody sees. That's even worse. The pressure.
00:25:29
Speaker
And, you know, I have unrealistic standards, you know, like I'm never happy with anything. So it's like when it's not even the true sign of an artist, nothing's ever finished and nothing's ever good enough. Like I want it to be perfect. I know that it won't be perfect, but I want to get as close to perfect as I can. So when it's like not even at like a satisfactory level, it drives me insane.
00:25:56
Speaker
100%, because then that always opens you up to be like somebody else's could say something. So it's like the pressure of having somebody say something when you know it's not like where you want it. Yeah. Which sucks. Because I know if I put my standards here, like the client's expectations are always... Oh, they're going to be way lower than that. But then there's that barometer where you're like, oh, I'm getting close to like where they might say something. Right. And it's like, you know, they'll have a point.
00:26:23
Speaker
You mean you don't see those bubbles? Torture. Yeah. Yeah. It's always good to have that kind of like level of standard look, because you always know you're going to hit. You know, even if it's not, we know we don't get perfect, but if we're getting at least close to ours, then we know we're delivering something that's going to be right. Yeah. So that's the same thing on any facet of construction, you hope.
00:26:47
Speaker
Yeah, any trade, you know, if everyone cared that much, you know, it would be a lot better. And, you know, it is an issue how low the standards are for people, like, you know, because it prices people who are good at things out of the job a lot of times.
00:27:06
Speaker
100% because they're just lowering it. We could just get any idiot to do this, you know? It's like, wow, if you want it to be good, you can. However, it's going to look like shit. And I mean, you know, because you did construction before, but you know, the guys who suck. Yeah. And it just, it dominoes down the whole row of everything because
00:27:27
Speaker
You have a trade come in and they're like, well, they're doing that kind of level of work. Yeah. It brings everything down. Yeah. Yeah. Like if we go into a house to measure for something and we see the other millwork and it's like, you know, shit. Yeah. It's like, wow. We're fine. I mean, we're not going to like rip you off, but you know, I'm not going to like kill myself and lose sleep over like a tiny little gap of in something or something like that. Yeah. Yeah. And we talked too about budget and it's like, you know,
00:27:54
Speaker
We tend to give away the farm and it's like something that you really got to not do. You can't charge a client $10,000 and give them a $20,000 product. Yeah. Because if you do that continually, you're not going to be able to keep the lights on. So it's like you need to give them what's relative to what they're paying for, proportional to what they're paying for. Yeah, I have that issue too. I kill myself for all my clients. So, you know, that's a hard one to navigate because
00:28:23
Speaker
I also want to keep my level of credibility and professionalism and stuff like that. And sometimes you get in a situation where you're on an hourly project, which is fine. But if you're on a flat fee and things keep popping up and you keep having to save the day, and then you have to have that conversation.
00:28:45
Speaker
Which you want, I come in and I want to save the day and help everybody out and you know, but then you get taken advantage of because then the subs and everybody starts to use you to do their job and they're getting paid and you know, I fall into that a lot just because I'm like, well, it has to be done and I care about the client and I want them to get what they get. So, you know, I might not use that sub again.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yeah, it feels like an investment in yourself and your business too. 100%. Well, I'm just paying it forward into the next one. The client is going to be happy. That's fine. Yeah. But then you know when you start to get to the feeling where you're like, yeah, hold on a second. Yeah. You know, this ain't for free, friends. Oh yeah. That was like our barter with the electrician. I was like, oh yeah, now it's just the handrail. I'm like, no, no. This stops.
00:29:30
Speaker
I'm like, we didn't ever talk about this, so we're not going to do it because we already did like 10 of those things. 100%. And it's, you know, it's hard because you, not for that situation, but when you're dealing with a client, they're like, you know, electrician, tile guy, whoever they decided to do on their own. And then they're like, oh, well, you know, they're not coming through. They need this, they need that. And you're just like,
00:29:54
Speaker
That's why I suggested going with people that we use or anyone that I suggest. That's usually when it happens is when they wind up trying to do something on their own where they think they're going to save money. And sometimes they do want that specific bill, but you wind up paying for it either with the contractor or with me or anybody else because somebody has to pick up the slack of the person who you got, who's a friend.
00:30:19
Speaker
you know, oh, this person's friend, I know this person through this and everybody's got a guy and how often have you worked with that guy? Do you know what they actually do? You know, that kind of stuff. You pay for it one way or the other. So you might as well do it with somebody who you feel confident in that's going to get it done. But that's not always what happens.
00:30:38
Speaker
Yeah, I always like if I'm bidding a job and like somebody sent us this bar and they wanted this arched, they had like the most abysmal budget. They wanted this elliptical arched back with glass, with antique mirror, glass, blah, blah, blah. And then they're like, wow, we could have this person do this. I'm like, I'm tacking on extra because I'm not telling them this, but because I know I'm going to have to deal with some guy.
00:31:03
Speaker
Yeah. I don't know if he's going to be able to be there on the same day as me because I can't finish the install until his stuff is in. I'm like, you're not saving any money. Like, if you just gave us the whole scope of work, I'm going to, you know, I'm going to find a guy to do it. I'm going to mark it up. But it's going to all be done, you know. Well, and that's also some people, clients could be educated or uneducated and you have to kind of educate them on kind of the process because some of them really are naive and don't
00:31:32
Speaker
not at their own fault, but they just don't realize the steps in getting something done. So, you know, I've had clients who, you know, and they just don't understand how long anything takes. They don't know who's involved. They just want to have it done. And they think that they're just looking at numbers, you know, and
00:31:52
Speaker
you could explain it to some and they'll get it. And they'll be like, oh, I didn't realize it was that involved or that many trades have to come together for that. Happens a lot with countertops when you have a countertop and then you have a built-in that goes on top of it, stuff like that. But some of them don't know and then they...
00:32:07
Speaker
step up and say, no, let's have your guy do it because we just want it to be smooth, especially if they're on a time crunch. Then they have to weigh out if it's the cost that they think they're going to save on or the time. And usually if it's commercial, people pick time over.
00:32:23
Speaker
but again, it depends on the budget and the client, but they just don't know some of them. Other people are just looking to save a dollar at every turn and trying to use you and squeeze you dry. And you kind of get the vibe of that, but it's wrong. The client needs to be educated enough too, to be able to articulate to these other subs that they're dealing with personally, what needs to happen. Well, especially too, when they're their own general contractor, you know, where they think they are. And they just don't know and you kind of try to share the knowledge,
00:32:53
Speaker
You know the personality types. That's a freebie. Yeah, that's a freebie. Let me just teach you this. You know, I paid to learn all this. Don't worry. Yeah, don't worry. I only went to school for 12 years. I've only, you know, been working for 15 in the industry, but you can have my info for free. I'll help you out.
00:33:09
Speaker
But that's really only when you have good clients that you will want to keep and all that stuff where you give a little bit more. But for shitty clients, it's like, yeah, well, good luck. Let me know when you need it fixed. We'll be here. That's when we're going to do a 10 in 10 on top of everything.
00:33:26
Speaker
It's just the feeling, some people just want the feeling of them saving and they don't care about anything else.
Client Management and Financial Decisions
00:33:35
Speaker
So then you price it accordingly for that person and you discount knowing that you, they were gonna do that. But I try not to get into any kind of like discounting or anything like that. I usually, if I feel like somebody's gonna be questionable like that, then based on the project, then I'll be like, you're gonna be hourly friend.
00:33:55
Speaker
Because there's no telling how long you're going to keep me here. And that's kind of like my biggest thing with specific clients and as interior designers, you don't, I mean, you probably feel it a little bit because they try to have the job creep, but with interiors, it's
00:34:12
Speaker
They don't ever want to let you go. You know, you become their friend's therapist. You know, they want you to move in, like all that stuff. Oh, well, you're here. Can you take a look at that powder over there? It's just never ending and you like them, most of them. And you're like, okay, well, you know, I'll help you out. But at some clients, you're like, I need this to be over. Yeah. So let's wrap this up.
00:34:36
Speaker
I'll take a look at that next time over here. We'll schedule, let me know. Because some of them just want to keep talking. And then they just try to find other things. I have clients who are...
00:34:50
Speaker
Like, can you pick out, you know, my towels, my soap? It just depends on the client. And for people you love, like, you don't care. Like, I'll do whatever. Because it's not, you know, at the end of the day, it's not like stuff like that. You know, you're not going to kill yourself for hours and hours. But no, it's not a lot of time and it makes them happy. And it really just emphasizes your work. Like, so.
00:35:12
Speaker
It's good all around, but it's for people who you care about and wanna cultivate. Because for people you can't stand anymore, you're like, no, can't do it. Here's some suggestions, run with it.
00:35:28
Speaker
Yeah. We get like the, uh, it hasn't happened in a while, but like, Oh yeah. You think you could like hang these blinds while you're here or, you know, stuff like that. Well, they're just happy to have somebody in the house, right? Like that could do stuff. And that happens all the time. Like artwork, mirrors. Like we have this guy, John, he's a handyman. We'll give you his number. Yeah. It's always good to have that too. You could call him and do that. Um, yeah, that kind of stuff is like the creep that just keeps going, which if it goes into a bigger project, great. But,
00:35:58
Speaker
Yeah, they always dangle that carrot. Yeah, only some of them come through. Yeah, usually never. Well, I think we have to take this time to thank our sponsor, Ridge Carbide. Lindsey's filling in because Rob's not here. Rob, you sound great today. When you need the right saw blade for the job, put your trust in Ridge Carbide tools.
00:36:22
Speaker
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00:36:35
Speaker
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00:36:59
Speaker
Yeah, Joyner, that flat is the first space of the board. So thank you, Rich Carbide. We also want to thank our other sponsor, UNITA. As we always mentioned, we've been using the UNITA 3x4, their XAND. Yeah, I just posted about it this morning. What the hell do they call those? XAND. Give me a second here.
00:37:24
Speaker
Such a good sponsor. E-Series, XAN E-Series 3x4 orbital sanders. So it's a 3x4 sander with a true 1 eighth inch orbit. Fantastic for Finnish prep. And we've really been enjoying them. So thanks to Unida as well. I wanted to ask, you want to talk a little bit about your time, like at some architects and then how you went out on your own?
00:37:53
Speaker
just my time in general when I was there. Yeah, whatever, whatever made me interesting. So many interesting things I cannot be discussed now. Because you were saying, Ed was your professor. Right. So then how did you make the... He was one of the partners there, yeah. So some architects in Red Bank, Ed O'Neill and Mike Simpson were the two principals there. So Ed had asked me to intern when I was still at Brookdale.
00:38:20
Speaker
So I did that and then wound up going to Drexel and staying there during the internship. And then obviously became a full-time employee while I was at Drexel. So worked there with a bunch of people before everybody got laid off. You made the cut. You know, I made the cut at that first kind of recession. But Jill Wright obviously is one of their, she's still there.
00:38:48
Speaker
kind of their iconic worker who has been there forever and really taught me along with learning with
Career Growth and Personal Development
00:38:56
Speaker
a few of the other guys that were there in the beginning before they were laid off kind of the ropes and everything computer wise and setting up drawings and all that kind of stuff that you only touch on in school. So really working with her and them was really helpful. And then really, I would say,
00:39:18
Speaker
After a few years of just doing kind of architectural drawings and markups and all that kind of stuff branching into the interior design there, nobody was doing interiors and a client had asked for it so they knew I went to school for it and it was kind of just a
00:39:36
Speaker
seamless transition. I worked there for 15 and a half years doing both architecture and interior design the whole time, running the projects for the interiors pretty much solely running them with kind of mostly Ed overseeing, I guess, because they were his clients.
00:39:58
Speaker
And I did work with Mike on a few interiors projects, but just kind of being able to experience that while I was there and going to school and running projects and kind of seeing things come to fruition was really great. I stayed there obviously through COVID. So we had that first recession. I forget it was like 2008. Yeah.
00:40:19
Speaker
And they laid everybody off except like everybody off, slowly laid everybody off. And then it was down to just me and Jill who worked there. And then we just kind of picked up everybody else's work. Oh yeah, got a huge raise. Yeah, right. So you stay, you know, at the pay scale that you're at and you just take on three or four people's jobs, which is unfortunate.
00:40:45
Speaker
Personally, I am kind of loyal to a fault. So if I ride for you, I'm riding for you the whole time. And I'll kill myself to make sure that what I'm putting out, even if it's for four people, I'm still going to the top of my level. Yeah. And when you care about what you do, it's like, I'd rather just do all this myself anyway. 100%, which is great and not great.
00:41:10
Speaker
But you also were kind of like, okay, well, eventually this is going to pick up, they're going to hire people back and it won't be as taxing and you hope that people appreciate it and see it and sometimes they don't.
00:41:25
Speaker
really there it was more of a financial decision because I got loads of experience. Ed is my kind of architectural mentor on the books for NCARB and getting my license and everything. Both of them have an extreme amount of knowledge. Good and bad, everybody has like good and bad. But you kind of learn what to do and what not to do and that's just with experience and I still work with them and consult with them.
00:41:54
Speaker
currently and met a lot of people through working there. So it's still a great relationship. It's just, it was time for me financially to move on and kind of transition out. I gave them a lot of time when I was leaving just cause I cared about the clients and didn't want anybody to be screwed by me being like, peace.
00:42:15
Speaker
I'm running your whole job, but I believe it. That only gets painted one way. Oh, 100%. Yeah, especially if you're doing, like I was doing interiors, nobody else was really involved. So I care enough to not screw over clients like that. And specifically with the clients that I had, I really cared because I was invested from the beginning of the project and wanted to see it through. So I'm still working on a project that two years later, that's still going on. Is it that same one? Yeah, that penthouse. Yeah.
00:42:45
Speaker
That was really an HOA problem, but still there and wanting to make sure that the project comes out good. But the level of exposure and knowledge that you gain just from being around people who are in the industry that long just builds your own portfolio of knowledge. So again, Jill is probably somebody that I've gained the most from there because of the educational
00:43:14
Speaker
direction and thing, he always let me kind of fly with any, not any, but most of the ideas that I had architecturally while laying out plans and that just promotes growth. So anytime that you could, and I think...
00:43:31
Speaker
Just in general, being a boss, you know, I think you always want your people to grow and kind of keep growing. Cause if you don't, why are you in it? Um, so you kind of want them to grow and eventually either partner or move on, you know, like, um, and some people have the personality where they're just gonna sit there and just want to work for somebody for the rest of their life.
00:43:53
Speaker
And hopefully there, you know, this person that's growing is training someone below them who's going to become the next version of them. Well, you would hope that. Yeah. You would hope that. And then they would kind of keep the cycle going. Yeah. But there was really, you know, they brought in an intern and they had a drafter there as well. All great people. But when you're overwhelmed with projects and you're bringing people in at different stages and, you know, you have to have people that are
00:44:22
Speaker
dedicated to not only the project, but to training people, or you have to give them the ability to train somebody and pull them off some projects. And scheduling when you have, you know, a lot of work is just difficult if you're understaffed. Yeah. So COVID, you know, I always say that I worked more during COVID and I work a lot. But I literally was nonstop working like day and night. And to have that and then not, you know,
00:44:51
Speaker
have support as far as when you come back from that was really kind of my breaking point. So if you're struggling financially, then you have all these other things stacking up and then you're like, okay, I've been here for 15 plus years. I know you appreciate me on some level, but I need to appreciate myself and be able to grow as well. Producing the work that's bringing the money into the business, then you deserve to be compensated.
00:45:19
Speaker
100%. And there's no bad blood there. It's just the reality, unfortunately, with having such, as we talked about, large student loans, more than a mortgage. And it's just weighing on you nonstop. And then you're kind of bleeding and you're not getting what you feel like you deserve. You got to go. Yeah.
00:45:42
Speaker
And I stayed a long time, you know, it wasn't like I graduated and was like, please, there's still stuff to learn. Thanks for everything. And everybody learns from each other. Like they learned, you know, interior design stuff that they use and architecturally, I think you when you work with a team and you guys grow together, you know, like as projects come and stuff like that. I'm sure this is boring for all the workers. But it's always about I like to say that
00:46:12
Speaker
Any project is a team of people. So if you feel like you're always running, and you're the person that is killing themselves and leading everything, and then you have this other aspect of life that you're like, Oh, why can't I afford to buy socks? You know, like, it's a problem. So it's like, okay, so how long are you gonna sit in it? And like, no matter how much I liked,
00:46:34
Speaker
loved them as people. I'm supporting a lot of people. Nothing personal. My niece is like, you know, stuff. And I need to be able to support myself and my family.
00:46:53
Speaker
Like I said, it's a great relationship that keeps going, but it was just time to kind of evolve and move on. And best thing I ever did. I love everything about being on my own. Besides that, I work even more now, which I knew I was going to do just because I'm addicted to work.
00:47:13
Speaker
universe. And it's like, I'm now killing myself for myself. Obviously not healthy. I'm sure you should go to betterhelp.com. But I love to work. That has been my whole entire life. I'm just coming from
00:47:34
Speaker
nothing and knowing that working gets you something has been my drive forever. I'm like, oh, I could get money? Fine, doing it. You know? And it's important with, and I would consider what you do, like a trade, you know, when you have a trade, it's important that it is not, I won't say your entire life, but it needs to be like the focus of your life. I'm not saying that you need to
00:47:59
Speaker
take away focus or give up, yeah, all these other things. But when you have a craft or a trade, it needs to be your entire, you need to put everything into it.
00:48:11
Speaker
But if you want to be good at it, you know. There are people who just want to show up to work. Yeah. Nine to five and leave and like, you know, have a life. I'm not one of those people. I love working. I love kind of the joy of every part of it. Good or bad. But my drive is always to keep working, keep, you know, moving projects forward. I live, I sleep it. Obviously, my nieces and my munchkins are like my second favorite thing. However,
00:48:41
Speaker
But you need breaks from them also. For everybody listening first. But you need to, you know, keep going individually too. So I think that my kind of addiction to working and moving forward benefits everybody. Like it benefits the clients, it benefits me, whoever, when I am going to be hiring somebody. So whoever that is, hopefully they have, I'm not expecting the same passion, but like, you know, that kind of drive, cause that's hard to find.
00:49:12
Speaker
Yeah, that's a scary thought. It's hard. The idea of trying to find someone that is at least... I just need somebody like... Perfection and satisfactory. Just finding someone that's satisfactory. Yeah, that's it. But I think if I had somebody who I was working for who had that,
00:49:32
Speaker
even if I didn't have it going in, it would rub off on me just because of personality base. Right. Yeah. You have to have the right personality. Like I'd rather hire someone with zero experience with the right personality. A hundred percent. Cause that's what you're dealing with every day. Same thing with clients. If you meet a client, like sometimes I meet clients and I'm like,
00:49:50
Speaker
I'm going to be dating you for the next, you know, year to two years. And I don't think I want to be in this relationship. But you meet other people and you're like, oh, this is like a no brainer. Like we blend, but it's going to be the same thing with anybody who works. But I just feel like.
00:50:05
Speaker
kind of having that drive in anything. When you're creating, you need other people to feed you too. So you need energy. I can't stand walking into an office, which I've been in, all over. And you just feel like you're walking into a damn cemetery and you're like, everybody's fucking miserable.
00:50:23
Speaker
what is happening here are you all okay like blank twice if you need to be saved because this is scary but I just you know I walk into somewhere and I don't want that energy and I don't want like negative shit so it's like
00:50:38
Speaker
I have a lot of stuff that happens chaotically all the time. As you know on projects, it's like one fire after the next. Everything's a disaster. And then you're like, okay, let's clean this up. But you don't want to walk into an office and be like, damn, this is depressing. Like what happened to everybody here? 40 plus hours, you know, if you're working more.
00:50:59
Speaker
I always think it's, I've probably said personality, you could have a counter on it a hundred times, but I really think relationships with clients and subcontractors
Workplace Environment and Project Management Success
00:51:08
Speaker
and anybody that you're working with, it's got to be a good energy or it's not worth it. It's like, why do I want to deal with somebody who's miserable all day?
00:51:16
Speaker
You're like, everything's a problem, which you know, in cabinetry. There are people out there who do that, but it's like, everything's a problem. If I'm designing something and I'm trying to work with somebody, whether it be stone, cabinetry, tile, wall covering, anything, and somebody's like, well, let me tell you why this is all an issue. And it's like, okay, no.
00:51:38
Speaker
And I entertain it because, you know, a female working with men, you have to kind of entertain a lot of shit. But I'll entertain it for a little bit and then be like, OK, well, this is how here's the reasons why here is the reasons. And maybe this is how I could like alleviate some of your negativity about it. But clients don't want to hear the problems. Clients don't want you to be saying like, oh, we can't design this or we can't do that or you're going to need this or talk to me about that. Like, don't say that. And I've had obviously situations where
00:52:07
Speaker
people get into it where like the clients don't want them back in their house. It's all about kind of perception and everybody wants their project to go smoothly. There's always problems. So it's how you deal with them and how you talk about them that either leaves people feeling good about working with you or leaves people feeling like, what the fuck?
00:52:29
Speaker
to build off of sort of what you just said, something that people found really interesting when we had Jaclyn, the other interior designer on, were like, what do you look for? So these are all a bunch of cabinet makers and woodworkers for the most part listening. How can they find interior designers to work with and what should they do? What are interior designers and architects looking for from these people? What can give them an edge?
00:52:57
Speaker
Well, me, personality, if you suck, I'm not going to work with you. But if you have somebody who works for you, that's great, you know, who has a personality. And I really look at that first because, you know, I want to make a product, right? If you have a great personality and you're putting out shit, you're not going to get any jobs.
00:53:18
Speaker
But you probably won't be in business, so it's that. But I think if you come at something where you're always trying to help elevate the project or the piece or whatever I'm coming to for, that's number one for me.
00:53:35
Speaker
which I know is really tough for everybody, including myself, but you really need to take photographs of what you work on. Far away pictures and close that. I know that's an issue because a lot of woodworkers, contractors and everything like to get in tight to details, which is awesome, but there needs to be like reference. I need to see the whole thing. So really photographs and
00:53:58
Speaker
You know, I worked with on my last project that a white opal, the first side, I waited a long time to have that photographed. And then I worked with a good photographer. His name's Simon. And he's great. You just have to find people if you can't photograph yourself. Yeah.
00:54:13
Speaker
which I can, but I don't have the time. And Simon's awesome. But you have to have other people do it for you. And you have to do it, I feel like during the process so that I could see kind of what you're putting out there. Because if I've never worked with you before, I have no frame of reference. Like you could show me like one little snap of something. I'm like, what did it take to get there? You know, was this a miracle project where everything else looked like shit and you're only showing me like two?
00:54:39
Speaker
you know, little shots of it. But I want to see that I want visuals, you know, if you have examples, I'm not going to want to, you know, some of the old school guys want you to go to like clients houses and I ain't doing that. You could use this as a reference. I'm like, I'm not going to send somebody to your house. No, I hate that. And first of all, like I get why back in the day you would do that.
00:55:01
Speaker
Hell no. I don't want to go back to some... Take time out of my day to go to some client's house who's going to feel awkward as fuck. When you're walking into just looking their stuff, you can't say anything that you would want to say. Like, you know, this is their baby. Right. Yeah. You know, their stylistic choices, like what they... Oh, everything. And, you know, I have a disease. So everything I don't like when people ask me, oh, what do you think? I'm just like, oh, God.
00:55:25
Speaker
Like, and sometimes it could be great, but I'm not going to, I don't want to have to give you my real opinion of some stuff because I don't know what got you to that decision either. So even if it's just the cabinet worker working with me and walking me through and they're just an ear shot, like the client, like it could have been them driving a certain decision where you want to do it. We all fall into it, right? Like where the person is really pushing a specific design aesthetic and you're like, okay, well, there's no other choice, but I've tried to talk you out of it.
00:55:51
Speaker
We've had jobs that have like been built around just like a piece of hardware. And it's like we had to make all of these concessions in the design with height and this and that because of this one thing. And it's like, man, if we had just like used a different one, this would have been so much better. A hundred percent. And so I don't like that doing in-person stuff. I do love seeing samples of things like coming into the shop, obviously, never an issue for me. So if somebody wanted
00:56:22
Speaker
Like if for some reason I got introduced to somebody new and they're like, come to the shop, I'll show you some stuff we're working on 100%. There's some people who are just desk jockeys and don't want to leave. As you know, I am constantly driving the job sites and being on site all the time.
00:56:37
Speaker
So I like that kind of interaction. I want to see what you do. I appreciate the craftsmanship. I appreciate the level of detail and work that you guys put in. I want to see that. Because the client might not appreciate it. They like the finished product, but I appreciate the whole entire thing. So I want to see it as much as I can.
00:56:54
Speaker
So for new guys, that's what, like trying to get bids and on the docket, that's kind of like what I would do. If there's a commercial job, that's really easy too. Like you could be like, oh, we did white opal, go check it out. You know, like I'm on social media. I could just go to their website and I could take like little looks and stuff like that and see. And for me working with new people,
00:57:19
Speaker
It really is based on the project. If I have a client that is a diehard client and I kind of know their level of expectation, I'm not probably going to risk it on something like that. Like I have, again, a few really great clients and I only bring you on. I brought you on to the one project. I only bring you on if I.
00:57:36
Speaker
know that I could guarantee you're not going to screw me. Because I don't want you to look bad. I don't want me to look bad. I, you know, that whole thing. So on a project for a seasoned client, it's rare that I'll bring somebody on. Obviously you guys, I was super confident. Obviously I've seen your work a million times before you even started cabinetry. So I was good with all that.
00:57:57
Speaker
But bringing a new person, I probably wouldn't do that. I would probably test them out on a new client. Depending on what I saw, if I thought like, oh, this could probably be good, probably something smaller, maybe a kitchen, you know, things like that. Yeah. Like we're not going to try some brand new material that's like totally outside of, you know. And you wouldn't want me to if you were the client. Like you want to be, oh, you just met these people? Like, are you sure? Yeah. I never use these guys, but I think they're, they'd be great.
00:58:23
Speaker
lot of exposure. And again, I know it's like running another business, right? Like socials and websites and all of that stuff. But I'm not even saying you have to have a pretty picture on Instagram. Send me pictures that you have of just a project or a link to pictures. It doesn't have to be like photo ready to post on social, but I want to see it. And that could kind of tell me.
00:58:47
Speaker
you know, plus personality. And then of course, cost. So that's huge. And again, depending on the level of clients, some people are very concerned with their budget. I have a lot of clients who don't mind and are willing to pay for what I tell them is quality or the level of quality that they're looking for. So some people don't question it, but a lot of people are trying to save and you know, want something quick and
00:59:13
Speaker
down and dirty and they get the level that they're looking for. I think it's important as cabinet makers to be flexible too, where we can't just design every job and expect to do every job, frame inset, solid wood. No, of course not. You need to be flexible. That's a hurdle that you usually hop very soon from starting, but even in design, right? I'd love to not care about a fucking budget for the rest of my life.
00:59:39
Speaker
You know, you don't have a budget. Perfect. I can do whatever I dream of. That's the art thing. Awesome. Yeah, of course. But, you know, reality for some people are tighter than others.
00:59:51
Speaker
but key is flexibility. That's even with communication, right? Like I, I mean, and I'm sure you could say if I'm wrong, but I like to make sure that I'm always available for people, especially subcontractors, because I know what it's like to be on a job and have to wait for people to respond to you or like get to you. So being available and then on my end, being flexible too, like if you call me and you say, hey Lindsay, like,
01:00:17
Speaker
This isn't going to work or there's something that we didn't realize the material is gone or our material that is no longer here. But and you're not able to get in contact with people like suppliers and things like that.
01:00:33
Speaker
my job is to be flexible and find solutions. So I have to, of course, I'm going to find a solution that I think looks the way I need it to look to, but at which I try to do as fast as possible. But I think that's key because if you're not flexible, like what are you doing? You're just creating more problems. So there's some things that I'm like, no, I need it to look like that. How can we get it there? But that's still being flexible. You know, like you're just not saying,
01:00:59
Speaker
Jeff, go find it. Right. Like, oh, they don't have it in this side of America. Go find it. You know, like, what's your problem? Because it hurts everybody. You know, it's 100%. And it's not worth it. Like, for what? Again, go back to being miserable. Yeah. Because then you make the job miserable. You make it so now you're losing money. I'm not getting what I'm looking for. The client's not happy. The client's going to be unhappy. Time is going to be delayed. Yeah.
01:01:25
Speaker
It's just not good. Well, flexibility, I think is key. If you're not flexible, you probably shouldn't be working, you know, definitely not talking to clients or designers or architects. But I think, you know, at some point, if you're good, you're going to be flexible and find something else that works, you know, to get the job done. So that part flexibility is probably key. Flexibility and communication. If you can't communicate, we're dead in the water.
01:01:50
Speaker
Yeah. That's one thing I will say about you is, and you were just talking about like the speed of communication. You're, you're good at getting back to us. We have other designs that we work with that it's like.
01:02:01
Speaker
They, you know, we use Basecamp and then it's like, send it on Basecamp. And it's like a week later, two weeks, I'm like, I just asked about this outlet. Like, it's a super simple, they're like, ping the client. And I'm like, I'd be on the, I'm like, just give me the client's phone number. I'll be on the phone. Like, let's just get an answer so that we can progress this job. But, and then you get exposed to people, you know, um, kind of what that's like, but the difference between caring and not caring, right?
01:02:27
Speaker
not coming for Basecamp or any other program, but I have a cell phone. Text me, not to say any time of day. I will get your message 24 hours a day. I might not respond to you if I get it at midnight till the next day, clients, if you're listening, but I'm going to respond to you.
01:02:51
Speaker
What are you doing? You're stopping everybody from working. Like for me to have to go through so many gates to get to you is silly. Now I have clients who don't want to be contacted, like, and I get it, they're at a level where they don't need to be contacted, but then I have to be available or have somebody who's going to be available for them. Because again, everybody wants to have the project come out the way they want it on time. You don't want to spend more money than you have to, but you want to be able to make money. And that's, responsiveness is key to that.
01:03:20
Speaker
there's no way that you could like a week I would die like if I didn't respond to something a week and I tell my clients too because sometimes I get a trillion texts a day I'm like if you don't hear from me
01:03:32
Speaker
I'm going to say a couple hours. You know why I didn't get your message. Just send another one. Like just resend it or just be like, hey, still here, you know? Oh yeah. I would like, I'd like, you know, I just like bump and bump, bump it up to the top. I'm like, a hundred percent. Like can't I like just, I mean, insane. But responsiveness, I think is key and communication is key and really
01:03:56
Speaker
It's the difference between being a good person to work with or being a bad person to work with, right? Because at the end of the day, we're all in it for the same reason. We all, well, I should say we all are. Yeah. Some of us are in it for the same reason. And why wouldn't you want to help a teammate out? You know, like you want it to be as good as you can get it. I want it to be as good as you can get it. Like there's no reason not to respond to people. And for something, especially as small as that, I mean, I would respond to everything, but
01:04:26
Speaker
an outlet. Like, you know, come on. Yeah. Even with our little string outlet the other day. Yeah. You know, that string actually got pulled back. I know. I listened to your pocket. I was laughing. I was like, Oh my God, what a nightmare. Yeah. We're about to leave. Things like that pop up all the time. I was like, where's our string? Oh my God. I'm like, there's only one end of this string. Yeah, that's rough. But you know, um,
01:04:52
Speaker
For somebody working, let's just say you're working with a new designer or architect or anything like that always being available within reason, obviously, but available for questions like not making I always find
01:05:05
Speaker
Again, it's a little bit different. I'm not a feminist, but it's a little bit different if you're female talking to guys just because sometimes they want to make you feel stupid. And you kind of have the power to allow them to think that, you know, they're teaching you something because some guys need that. But at the end of the day, I need an answer to the question.
01:05:25
Speaker
So if you want to, you know, meet a giggle at your jokes that make you feel like you're funny, fine, but I need the answer. So being able to communicate that and having kind of like an open communication, I think is key. At a new job, it's a little bit harder just because you're kind of feeling everybody out.
01:05:43
Speaker
You know, I don't know, I don't know what else would help them. I would say social media initially, but I usually get people from kind of just like the network of people just knowing somebody or being on a job where a client wants to bring somebody in and you get really lucky that they don't suck, you know, like, and you're like, Oh, wait a minute. Like you're actually good. Where have you been hiding? You know, like that kind of thing. Cause a lot of guys are just too busy to like,
01:06:09
Speaker
and they don't really need the marketing. So I would just say imagery, communication, and personality is kind of what I'm looking for. Yeah. And I think we've talked about it before, like perceived value. When you're on the job site,
01:06:30
Speaker
make it look like you know what you're doing, you know? Oh my God. Well, that should be, I mean, you learned that when you were seven, right? Like fake it till you make it. There's no way. A hundred percent. And especially in front of, uh, specific people, like
01:06:47
Speaker
I would say you're not going to act your true self in front of a client, you know, if you're running off the rails, you know, it's going to raise some flags and then people lose confidence in all your stuff. So you have to look like, you know, what you're doing and ask the right questions, right? Because it all comes down to that. Even, you know, in architectural drawing, right? If you're not asking whoever is above you a question, you look like an asshole, right? Because they're there.
01:07:16
Speaker
a desk away sometimes. Like, why wouldn't you ask me? Instead, fuck up. So in like three months from now, we have a real problem. So you don't feel like you don't know something. Like that's ridiculous to me. So that goes with everything. And I always like, I guess it's how you respond to it too. Like if somebody's coming to me and they're like, Lindsay, this is going to be a problem. And I'm like,
01:07:37
Speaker
Fuck you, make it work. Then you're not gonna get a couple of questions after that. But I always think that if you let people tell you what the issues are and you don't blow it out of proportion, because everything could be fixed, it always is better in the end because they're not hiding shit from you, which happens a lot in construction and then life. But they're not hiding stuff from you or lying to you about something because they're not scared to tell you. They're not scared of losing money.
01:08:07
Speaker
for the most part, they're not scared that you're going to be an asshole and they're not scared you're going to make them look bad. So again, not to say it in front of a client, of course, but bring it to me, call me, you know, like, let me know what the issue is so we could fix it and make ourselves look good, too, like, and not look like you're falling apart. Yeah, there's nothing, you know, that looks worse than someone, someone finding something that you know, I try and overshare everything. It's like, that's
01:08:35
Speaker
You know, this was supposed to be here, but it ended up here. Just letting you know it's an eighth inch. And I appreciate knowing, you know, so that if I'm ever... So that's the worst fear for you guys, right? Where somebody's like... The client finds it and then you have to explain it. You didn't know about it. Then I'm the in-between and I have no clue. And not that I can't fly, you know, from the seat of my pants, but it's also, I'm not trying to throw anybody under the bus. If it was something that, A, couldn't be avoided,
01:09:01
Speaker
or B, they missed or it depends on the situation, but I'm always trying to raise everybody up. So I'm not going to be like, well, these fucking cabinet guys, you just can't deal with them. It's like, wait a minute, those are your guys. You brought them on, what are you talking about? But yeah, you want everybody to look good. I mean, at least I want everybody to look good and I want them to be happy. So if I know about it in advance and you're like, well,
01:09:28
Speaker
This was the issue, that's why this is like this. Okay, I could deal with it, right? Or even on White Opal with the larger gap and we figured out how to get it closer to...
01:09:39
Speaker
That didn't need to be a problem, right? Cassie and Joey didn't need to be like, what? You know, like, I have no idea. It looks great. I mean, they know now because of course they're listening as well all the way through this. But, you know, the breast detail. Phenomenal solution. Yeah, I don't think I saw a picture of it yet. I didn't either. Rob, he had to send me a close up, but not a, again. I'm telling you, close up and you need wide shots.
01:10:02
Speaker
We'll have to, we'll pop in for coffee. Rob, come on. But I'm going to have a photograph, so obviously you could share the photos and stuff.
01:10:11
Speaker
but that is the difference is if I know there's a problem or just a change and I need to get it to where I need it, we could work together very easily to come up with a solution. That one wound up being great, but sometimes they're not great and then you have to explain this to the client. But some things are just silly stuff that we would see and no other human is going to see that. Because everything, all the details being our whole lives,
01:10:41
Speaker
we look at everything, right? Like I can't walk into a restaurant and not look at stuff and be like... And they're usually the worst. The worst. But, you know, everybody's trying to save a dollar, but you walk in and you see it and like, if somebody asked us, we would then rattle off all the shit that we saw from walking into the door to sitting down at our booth to going to the bathroom to everything. But other people are walking in and go like, wow, this place is great. I love the vibe. I love this.
01:11:06
Speaker
Same thing happens in houses too. Like if people walk through... Like they use casing as baseboard there, there's a huge gap over here. Yeah, like, oh, okay. You went to Home Depot for your cabinets? Great. Yeah, they look phenomenal.
01:11:19
Speaker
But just stuff like that, like we have a disease. But if it's small, little things like that, the client's not gonna care. But if it's big and then it gets brought to my attention, then I have to either be like, yeah, that does look bad. I'm not really sure what happened there. I'll have to reach out to them. Still doesn't look bad for you. I mean, still doesn't look good for you, sorry. Still doesn't look good for you.
01:11:37
Speaker
Yeah, the clients in this state of limbo where they're like, and then they start questioning everything. And then it's just like, oh, there goes the band
Business Ethics and Client Relations
01:11:44
Speaker
aid. Now every single little inch of that is going to be a problem. Once didn't have to be, because if you would have told me, I have, you know, the ability to shift those waves to where they need to go. But it's always better, I think, to tell. Now there's a certain point where, you know,
01:12:02
Speaker
If it's like intensely about a sixteenth of an inch, you'd be like, let it go. Right. You know, but that's just to them. Like it's not to everybody. But the worst part is when people are hiding stuff and, you know, changing things without telling you, you know, having breaking things and trying to get you to say that it's fixed like that. Like I'm not into using, you know, using inferior material that wasn't
01:12:26
Speaker
That's the worst. We said we were going to do it this way, but we really did it this way, but nobody's going to know. And you quoted it, and now you're upset because you misquoted it, or it's taking you longer, or whatever, and you don't want to eat it at a certain point, and now you start trying to use shit. So that's their fault, but it makes you look bad in the end, because at the end, the client in a year or two months or whatever is going to call you and be like, what the fuck?
01:12:52
Speaker
Yeah, we found out that there's a joint in the back of that. Why isn't this wall wheeling? You know, like shit like that. But, and see, so like seams, details like that, like you want to pay attention to, because if they don't see it right away, they're going to wind up seeing it down the road if it's big. Yeah. It's going to start to collect dust and then it's really going to be bad. Yeah. But you know, time always either kills you or lets people be happy. But hiding shit is not cool.
01:13:21
Speaker
Yeah, so don't hide stuff. Don't hide stuff and don't lie. Save that for your wives. Good tips for keeping clients too.
01:13:30
Speaker
Well, and keeping the relationship with anybody. Like I have to keep relationships with you guys and stone guys and tile guys and, you know, all that stuff. If you don't have a good relationship, you're not going to get people to respond to you. So it's very important through the whole project and just in business, right? Like I can't be like, Oh, I have nobody to talk to anymore. Like, Oh, do you have somebody to do this kitchen? Actually I don't, you know, because the relationship sucks and now I have to look for new people. Like it sucks.
01:13:57
Speaker
Yeah, and a point to being on site and perceived value and doing a good job. Rosaro, for example, we did, I don't know, two or three jobs for Andy after that. 100%. So you show up to the job, you look professional, you do a good job. Well, and you're personable. Yeah.
01:14:17
Speaker
You guys don't have a problem with that. Some people are just odd ducks. We're not talking about anyone in particular. Specifically, if you're a long time listener. But there are people who just don't have a personality and clients read that and so do other people. It's customer service. I mean, we talk about how coming from the restaurant industry, I worked in fine dining for like 10 years before I ever picked up a hammer.
01:14:45
Speaker
Oh my God, I couldn't imagine working in a restaurant. The parallels are insane. It's all about customer service with the client and the smoke and mirrors thing, fake it till you make it. It's all
01:15:03
Speaker
And when there's a huge issue, you're on site, you're installing and you run into something, you're like, fuck, this is bad. You have to just make it seem like it's not a big deal. And then deal with it. Yeah. So that's the difference if you're faking it till you make it, but you're not learning, you're dead to. Yeah. You have to fake it till you make it, then figure it out. If you don't figure it out, that's the part that then tanks you. Then you're just faking it. Yeah, then you're just faking it and then people are going to be upset.
The Multifaceted Role of Designers
01:15:30
Speaker
But you have to have that follow up.
01:15:32
Speaker
For sure. But, you know, I would say, I mean, there are nightmare stories, but there are a lot fewer nightmare stories than there are, you know, great stories and people have great experiences and, you know, all that. But I mean, the kitchen and Rosara came out phenomenal. Yeah. That just because it triggered my brain, I'm like, so pretty. But you have to, you know,
01:15:58
Speaker
I just don't know. I think it always boils down to customer service, but that's like in anything that you're going to be successful in, right? So if you're selling ice cream and you're an asshole, you're an asshole selling ice cream.
01:16:09
Speaker
you're not gonna do good. But if you're, you know, at least have some level of being able to talk to people, like that's inherent, right? Like you're born with that. You either know how to be social or you don't. If you don't, that's fine. Get somebody social to work for you though, so that they could be the kind of contact. And, you know, keep you growing because you're not going to if you don't have anybody who could talk to somebody.
01:16:33
Speaker
Yeah. Like I'll say, I won't say who the client was, but we had someone else who was involved in a job that we were doing with you and they were like, Oh man, this client, she's a real, you know what? And then like we show up and they love you. If you put out the right energy, you know, I'm like, like this lady's cool. I'm like, she was totally cool to us.
01:16:53
Speaker
And that's, I mean, that's what happens in any, in life in general, right? Like if you're coming at somebody combatively or not even combatively, like,
01:17:04
Speaker
but you put up a certain energy, not that I'm into energy and crystals, but they're gonna match you or they're gonna feel like you're trying to get over on them or they're gonna feel like you're hiding something or people pick up on that all the time. And if I'm, like I said, I'm on job sites a lot, so it's very easy for me to, if somebody has that kind of personality, talk a client through it and kind of let them know without being like, yo, this guy's just a weirdo.
01:17:32
Speaker
Like, don't worry about it. He's been smelling too many fumes, you know? But it's easy for me to do that if I'm there and witnessing it. And I know that the guy's a good guy. He just had an off day or like can't talk to people or like whatever. But if you're flying on your own and you have nobody to help you out, like- Yeah, like someone just cold calls you and you go over to measure the job and you're like- And you're a weirdo, like it's a problem. Good luck. You better have a really good price.
01:17:59
Speaker
really, really low. Or like I said, for people who find themselves, because some people just don't have that kind of personality where they could talk to people. Get somebody who does, and let them do the talking. There is no reason that you can't use somebody else to wherever you're lacking to throw somebody in there, because it will help you. Because everything from any job from Target,
01:18:21
Speaker
to these big CEOs is all about personality. People all the way up there aren't doing much physical stuff. They just know how to talk to people and manage people.
01:18:34
Speaker
hopefully, if they're good, and know how to manage people. But some people get their by luck. But it's all about that and kind of being the best at whatever you do. And if you can't do a certain aspect of it, no shame in getting somebody to help you out. And I try to do that, again, coming from, I have a different kind of mindset than most interior designers, blanket statement, because I'm coming from a background of architecture, which is,
01:19:02
Speaker
you're just at a different level of knowing things. And you're concerned about not only like an interior decorator, for instance, you know, the cursed word.
01:19:13
Speaker
but that's like harsh. You want to insult somebody call them a decorator if they're a designer, but the interior decorator is really only concerned about finishes, what looks pretty in their minds, shit like that, which is not an interior designer. I'm sure the girl that you had here previous would say the same thing, but when you're a designer, you're concerned about more things like functionality, you know,
01:19:43
Speaker
from architecture, safety in the space, ADA requirements, like not only what looks good, like what is functional, what meets code. You care about the other trades that are involved. You're not like, well, they'll have to figure it the fuck out. Like, I want this to be some wild, snakey curve. And I don't care if the materials straight and can't bend. Sorry, bitch. Like, you're not going to do that. But like, you care about the whole process because you want it to come from your germ of an idea and then come out to something like dope.
01:20:13
Speaker
So design is really more layered than decorating, which is, again, important for contractors to know. Not every female that walks on your job site that says they're a designer is a designer. So that's usually where the bad blood comes from. Because people always think, oh, interior designers, and I feel like architects, some contractors also have a chip on their shoulder about, because they think you're going to come in and make the job more complicated.
01:20:42
Speaker
take money away from them or whatever nonsense they've thought up, you're a problem, right? Instead of part of a team, and again, I'm not talking for all contractors, we know people who are not like that.
01:20:54
Speaker
you become a problem. So any, again, not to go back to the female thing, but any female walking on the state, they're like, oh, a decorator's here, great. They're just gonna propagate this. They're gonna be like, change this, do this. And if you're good at what you do, that's not the vibe you leave with, obviously, you're gonna get that initially, but people know that they wind up using you for more than you're getting paid for. And they know that you're gonna come through and that's really,
01:21:18
Speaker
Similar to what I'm saying about like personality that's the follow through right you could fake it till you make it but you're gonna show everybody. What you're capable of or not capable of so a designer is gonna think a lot more about you know functionality how it's being built. I come from the architectural side too so I'm.
01:21:38
Speaker
not only concerned about the interior shell, I want the whole entire thing to make sense. So even if I don't get the architectural, I'm not working on it anymore until I get my license. But if I'm not working on that aspect, I know enough about that aspect where I'm going to want the architecture and the interior design to sing together.
01:21:58
Speaker
So, there's no point in trying to fight it, you know? Same thing with clients if they want specific things, I'm sure, in cabinetry and stuff. You can't fight everybody. Not everybody is going to be, in my world, contemporary, gorgeous material, you know, like that kind of thing. Some people like traditional and some people like craftsmen and you got to kind of know what's good about those aspects too and be able to achieve that too, not just put you
01:22:23
Speaker
put your own thing on it, which you do anyway, but it's just a matter of where you're coming from and you have to know who the worker is. Obviously, any natural project or any furniture wouldn't even blink an eye at worrying about you guys doing it. Some people, I'd be like, ooh, can they do that? They've been working in PLAM for a long time. So, you have to know everybody and what they're good at.
01:22:53
Speaker
I'm you know, it just again comes back to knowing who you're working with and kind of their level of knowledge.
Quality, Honesty, and Industry Practices
01:23:03
Speaker
Yeah, the moral of the story is just do a good job. Do a good job at what you're doing. And you'll be successful. But also know that there's different people who are masked under the facade of design. Yeah. But you could, I mean, I could tell them very quickly once you start talking to them if they're just putting some pretty pictures together and they have no concept of how it's going to come to life. Right.
01:23:26
Speaker
It's like, if you've never given me a drawing of something, it's like, you've only sent me pictures of things. You're like, can we make this like 24 by 36 pay? Yeah. I mean, you know the difference. And I'm sure the guys that are listening know the difference too of what they're dealing with. Yeah. We had a designer. I don't really know if they have any, I think they, they, they came to the old shop, her and, and her business partner, I guess. Um, I drew a bunch of stuff, blah, blah. And then they ghosted us.
01:23:54
Speaker
And then they came back out of the woodwork like two weeks ago. And I'm like, beginning of the year, I'm like, we could stand to fill up the schedule. I'm like, I'll just draw this one thing, send a price. No response. I'm like, why did I even? Yeah. Put your energy into it. I know that's part of our disease. How come you didn't email me back? What's your problem? Not even worth it. Because God forbid you convince her to continue to work with you.
01:24:18
Speaker
What it is, is that people are going to steal, you know, your design or steal your information and try to like low ball and go to somebody else. Those people you don't want anyway. Like, so, okay, you got away with my concept. Go fucking achieve it. Cause you ain't going to do it. Cause we look at detail and the drawings, don't show all the detail of what, how it needs to be made or what you need to produce the room that you think you're going to get for my pictures. So like, good luck, bitch.
01:24:46
Speaker
Well, we just talked about that, how a client, you know, who had a designer as an intermediary, but the client stole my drawings and sent them to another cabinet maker who I know. Of course. And a little teaching of it's a small world. Yeah.
01:25:02
Speaker
I'm like, how are you going to build this vanity for this price? He's like, and yeah, it became this whole thing. And I ended up charging them for drawings, which I should have charged like three or four times more than I did, but I don't want to burn the bridge. You also don't want to burn him, you know? Yeah. Or the designer because, you know, it wasn't them who did it. Yeah. But you'll have clients that are like that though, that are so headstrong that they're like, I could get this for less. And it's like,
01:25:27
Speaker
Okay, go do it. Like I'm not going to help you do it though. Like if you want to price out cabinetry and like, you know, I had a client who, commercial client who knew someone and wanted to do their service area with that person. Great, but I'm not going to freely.
01:25:49
Speaker
give you all the information that they're going to need because they don't usually do commercial work or like stuff like that. And I'll do a little bit because I care about the client, but I'm not going to go to the extent that I would if I was working with you and getting you specific drawings and information because it's not that I'm getting money from you to work with you. It's that we have a relationship. So if you're going to use somebody else and you want to quote unquote save money, you're getting what they produce. You know, like I'm not here to save you money on that.
01:26:16
Speaker
Yeah, and then not get paid. Not that that's what happens with that, but that's what will happen if you just let people keep taking. But that boils down to the client. And if they're going to be good clients or they're going to be assholes, and that's kind of what happens. And I think for the most part, again, this is based on the person you're working with. But if the designer is honest and trustworthy, they will tell you this is getting bit out. They're taking it on their own.
01:26:45
Speaker
You know, and that's straight up front. Like that's what I do at least. If I know that they're going to do that, sometimes it happens later, like you're saying, like they get the price and then they're like, fuck, we can't afford that, but we still want this. And then they think that they could do it themselves. I'll tell you that too. And that's not to burn the client. It's just about like, I am not involved in that. Like if they're going to dumb it down and you're going to see, you know, pictures of their janky ass shit.
01:27:07
Speaker
It's going to be a facsimile of what you initially designed. We had a client, we're building a little window, like a bay window, little bench. And he's got a GC in the job that's doing all the work. And he's like, yeah, so-and-so's guy said, yeah, just show me what they designed and I'll build it for the same price or for less. I'm like, it's not going to be the same thing. But it's not that kind of business, right?
01:27:32
Speaker
It's a fight to the bottom, you know, race to the bottom. Yeah. And it's not like something where it's just like, oh, I have that shirt too I'm selling. Like I could tell you that for this amount. Yeah. It's not the same. This is like, you know, it's a man made. You know, this guy's going to do it on site with finger jointed pine and they're going to paint it with a brush. The product is going to look very different.
01:27:51
Speaker
Yeah. And we saw some other work that we bid on like some beams and like a mantle and we ended up doing just the mud room and now we're doing this bench. But when we went to the site, we're like looking, we're like, yeah. And I mean, that's what we do all day, right? Because sometimes we also get put in the middle of a lot of, you know, relationships on site.
01:28:11
Speaker
And sometimes you just can't, like the client is just pushing one direction and you just can't help it, right? Like they're going to do what they're going to do. And, you know, they're going to bring in their own tile guy and not listen to you. And not use John, who I would only use.
01:28:27
Speaker
It's just what it is. And that's why I like to have open communication with the people I work. Because if I have to bring you in to save the day on a different piece, I want you to know this wasn't me giving away your money. I didn't find some other guy. 100%. And I mean, some designers do have where they add percentages in and stuff like that. And they do have kind of skin in that game. I don't do that. Not that one day I never will. But at this point, I just don't like the feeling of that.
01:28:55
Speaker
I want the product to come out how I want it to come out and I want to use the best person. I don't want to have to mark that up. We've had designers for the communication. The client wants to go directly through you, but can you like tack on like actually 15% for us? Doesn't that feel shitty though? Yeah, and then I have to broker this like this secret deal and then like disperse money. I have no time for that. Like I don't like this. There is enough out here for everybody to make money. You know, like it's not my fault that you didn't charge correctly for your work. 100% and that's why it's like.
01:29:24
Speaker
I like to get paid for the work that I'm doing. Or you can't have the hard conversation with the client that says, you can go directly through them, but I need to charge you for hourly for communication. Yeah. I mean, I came up with some of the ideas, blah, blah, blah.
01:29:40
Speaker
And depending on the client, that could be a difficult situation. But still, then I'm just like, okay. Sorry, that's just what's going to happen. As far as I would say in that kind of situation, even if I did the design already, which is typical, I would say any kind of communication back, either from them or from you guys,
01:30:01
Speaker
i have to charge hourly for this time is money right like so if and usually if i need a site visit or something like that like you're gonna be billed and i would say nine times out of ten they're cool with that because also they have the
01:30:15
Speaker
misconception that they will be saving money because they're like, oh, well, it'll just be for however much time she spends. Well, if your guy really fucking sucks, it's going to be a lot of time and it's going to be painful for you. But, you know, that's all part of the game. But I just feel like it's so like.
01:30:32
Speaker
It's not even slimy because that's kind of how the industry operates for a large part, and I get why people are attracted to that. But for me, it doesn't feel good, so I don't do it. I just pay me for what I do. And if it's the time that I spend doing it to help you get to where you are, great. I'm not adding a percentage to that.
01:30:51
Speaker
And I get where I feel more, which I don't do yet, but where I feel more comfortable with that is if I'm purchasing product for you. But again, and I know a lot of designers are percentage on top of that, which again is just one model. I still feel better charging for my time for that because really when it comes down to furniture, you could charge a percentage. Let's just say you're charging 20% on top of it. Some furniture becomes a nightmare.
01:31:19
Speaker
You're waiting. There's some furniture that I have so much communication where I want to blow my brains out, you know, like trying to get this piece to them. And then there's other things that are nothing. So I know people think it balances out, but sometimes it really doesn't. So it's like, pay me for my time and whatever it takes to get this piece to you. And you get my discount or you get whatever you're getting, you know, if it's for lists or not. But I'm not adding anything to that.
01:31:42
Speaker
And like if you want the best for the client and there's this really nice piece, let's say it costs $5,000, you're going to put 20% on top of that. And now it's out of reach for the client. Wouldn't you rather them have- Well, and also some pieces they could just purchase themselves. So what are they going to do? They're going to go online because that's what everybody does now. And they're going to type it in or steal your picture and throw it online. You charge them $7,500 for this.
01:32:03
Speaker
I could go to whatever store or whatever site and get it for this much. Why are you charging me more than that? And I get, there's a lot that goes into ordering furniture. So I'm not saying that they don't deserve money for doing that work, because work is work, right? But I've just like, then I'll charge you hourly. I don't want you to pay more than other people. I just want you to pay for my time. Because my time is what's worth something, right? Like knowledge and time.
01:32:30
Speaker
Yeah, because it could take three times as long to procure something that costs half the price. 100%. Yeah. And people get it. And typically with that, I feel like clients too, because some clients have worked with other designers who do that already, which is fine. Their project comes out fine and they pay whatever it is. But I think when I come from that kind of model currently, they feel like
01:32:56
Speaker
this kind of perception that you are looking out for them, right? Because you are, you are looking out for them. And down the road, not sure if you know, that'll stay the same with the price increases of everything. But I think that if I don't feel good about it, I'm not doing it. So I couldn't imagine, you know, other parts of the industry that, you know, some contractors that just add and add and
01:33:22
Speaker
It's like the general con, you know, the 20, I don't know when it started, but the modern day general contractor who does nothing. And all they do is hire subs and they mark it up. And it's like, which and managing people is doing something. However, you know, those people. Yeah. So, uh, on a job that, you know,
01:33:42
Speaker
we were both on, general contractor that really has the client or me doing the managing of their subs is a problem because you're charging on top of it and that person is willing to pay that. However, now you have me doing the work or you have them doing the work, they're going to feel a certain kind of way about that. They might not at first, they might be like, oh, I'm just helping out, like, look at me involved in my project. But when people are spending millions of dollars, they don't want to be that involved.
01:34:09
Speaker
Even if you think their wife wants to be involved, they don't want to be involved in that kind of level of detail. They shouldn't be talking to subs. They shouldn't be, you know, really scheduling people to come to the site. Like, that's your job. That's what you're getting paid for. We should all do exactly, you know, what we're there for. But it gets shitty because and then you're like,
01:34:29
Speaker
coming from where I come from, it's like you don't want to throw anybody under the bus because you are a team. However, if you have somebody who keeps failing and then you have to charge for that, and then they're questioning you, it's like, hold on.
01:34:44
Speaker
This would typically be done by a GC. I know you guys think that you are one, but this is what, who does that work? But again, that's education as a client and then perception. And if everybody's like rising with the tide or if people are just trying to drag you down or get something for nothing. I've had a lot of contractors who unfortunately are like, oh, well, can you go get this material?
Perceptions of Trades and Teamwork
01:35:08
Speaker
Oh, can you order this material? Oh, can you just do this? And I roll with it. But at some point it's like, hold on a second.
01:35:13
Speaker
You should be purchasing doors. Why am I purchasing doors and windows? You should be doing that. I, again, have no problem to helping out. But if I want to continue to work with you, that's your job.
01:35:28
Speaker
Yeah, that's the thing. You know, if that's your MO as a GC, like it ain't great. You're going to burn a lot of bridges. A hundred percent. And it's like you're getting, oh, discharge the client for your time. I'm like, yeah, but now I'm taking on your liability of God forbid a door comes in wrong. You can't return that, you know, most of the time. Yeah. So it's like you need to do your part too. And if you don't, if you can't do it, get somebody who can do it so that I'm not doing it. It's created this perception too from clients. That's really, it's, it's harmed all of the trades, uh, where it's like,
01:35:58
Speaker
The trades are out to rip you off. You need to watch them like a hawk, you know, all of these, they're all bad people. And that's kind of, that's the energy you want going on when somebody's spending money. Right. You want them to be worried about people entering their house or like somebody stealing from them or any of that, like who? We're just like trying to rip you off, like, you know, like selling, you know, who are you? You know, saying that you're getting this, but you really get this, you know, the work is shoddy.
01:36:23
Speaker
I just don't understand the con, I mean, just cause we're not shitty people, but like, I just don't understand that concept of like how you sleep. I don't sleep and I do what I think is the best thing, but I don't know how people sleep and I do and stuff like that. Cause I mean, eventually they'll go out of business, but you hurt people all the way down the road and everybody else who comes in, cause it's like, oh, are you sure about this person? Oh, are you sure? Are you sure? And it's like, I'm going to put my neck on the line for somebody who was like, you know,
01:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, they're like, well, he's 10% cheaper. So are you okay with that? But it's just, you know, that's the, that's the dirty end of it. But I would say, you know, those people, as soon as you meet them on a job site. So it's kind of like,
01:37:07
Speaker
Usually they're in like a GMC Sierra, like Denali. They're not in a Toyota Tundra or Toyota. They're in like a, you know, a $95,000 super clean pickup. Yeah. Well, my pickup is clean, so don't talk trash. It is now though. It's nice. But you could tell those people as soon as you start talking to them, you're like, Oh God, this is going to be rough. Yeah. But hopefully you have enough pull where you're getting them to still do what you need.
01:37:37
Speaker
Yeah. And you get through that job and then, you know, never see them again. Hopefully not speaking to anybody, a South Jersey contractor that we had. Don't, yeah. Don't read into any, any of these statements. Um, so what do you think? What? You got any closing remarks?
01:37:54
Speaker
Um, closing remarks. Do your job now. I'm kidding. I think in the end is just about, uh, cultivating the relationships, I think as a whole on the job site. So even if it's, you know, a sub that you really have no.
01:38:13
Speaker
Interaction with like as far as you're not your work isn't in Inging on it anybody but like having a good relationship with the stone guy having a good relationship like even with an electrician or a plumber or something like that just having that
01:38:27
Speaker
Rolodex of people and knowing who has a good relationship and who doesn't because everybody talks, right? It's just like in a hair salon. Everybody's going to talk. If somebody is going to bring a problem up to you when you're on a job site installing a cabinet, like, oh, I got this problem with this other part of my house. Like you're going to have a guy you could give them or you're going to be like, oh, you should call this person or whatever. So word of mouth is kind of, I think, most important word of mouth and reputation. So if you come off as a good person and you do your work well, even good enough, you know,
01:38:56
Speaker
that you will get recommended for work and continue doing what you do. I know we talked about a lot of negative aspects of it, but there are a lot of good projects and there are a lot of good people to work with and usually just comes down to time and money. That bracket. Well, it's like you were saying like treat every job as a
01:39:18
Speaker
as you're all a team, you know, like you go into a job. I don't know. I might not know who the plumber is, who the electrician is, the painter, but you need to instead of going in with this like contempt, which I see a lot, it's just like my cheese kind of thing where it's like fucking pain or fucking plumber, like go in with just the goal to give the client the best thing possible and like say hello to people. Yeah.
01:39:45
Speaker
But like, yeah, try and help each other out. Is this in your way? You know, whatever. Just treat it like everybody's a big team just trying to get this job done. That's key, I think, in everything. Being a team and getting the project done, everybody making what they should make or getting recommendations to other things because clients talk, people who are in the trades talk. Like if you suck, people are going to know about it. And that goes, you know, GCs all the way down to the guy hanging a piece of artwork in your house. Like it matters.
01:40:14
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. If you're not on job sites and other trades and people are saying, let me, you have a card, you know, you're doing something wrong because the bar is so low. Yeah. There are a lot of people that are below that bar. You only need to put like a little bit of effort in to look like, you know, are worthy of being hired. A hundred percent. I mean, I think that's just key to everything.
01:40:40
Speaker
try not to be at that low bar, like maybe a little bit above it. But I think just making sure that you're not negative, opening up with anything negative, because we know we could talk about negative stuff all day long, because things happen at every job site. That's what you remember is you remember the negative.
01:41:01
Speaker
you have like electricians that, oh, you know, this is gonna be a nightmare. And like, don't do that. Think it and tell your guy that. But like, don't put that out to everybody else.
Networking and Reputation in the Industry
01:41:13
Speaker
Try, even though if it feels fake, just try to like,
01:41:16
Speaker
Just don't say anything then. Just say hello. If you think it's going to suck. Yeah. But, you know, everybody wants the same thing at the end of the day. Clients want to know that they're spending their money and they're getting what they're looking for and having good people do it. They feel better when the people are nice that they're spending the money on just like you do working with them. Yeah. And that's really how you keep your name going is through client relationships and trade relationships. And, you know, being a curmudgeon is not going to really get you anywhere. Yeah. Keep that in the shop.
01:41:45
Speaker
Yeah, keep that with your peeps. But I think overall, just producing good product is always key. And then always, again, being helpful as far as if things pop up and of pitching it as like, these are the options that we have rather than like, this is your problem. Right. Because I have some people who do that, obviously, but it's flexibility coming up with being solution oriented instead of like doom and gloom, chicken little style. Yeah.
01:42:16
Speaker
Designers are always looking for more people to work with, more cabinetry, just because everybody wants to see bids and stuff. So it goes from everything from cabinetry. And you have guys who you're like, oh, this would be a perfect job for them. So you can kind of see where people's strengths are. And sometimes people are just too busy and can't get to it. So it's always good to have other people that you could throw into the fire. But I think that comes again with social media and kind of exposure. So if you're not getting exposed via the
01:42:44
Speaker
World Wide Web, then it needs to be through other people talking about you and like pitching your name out there. And if you suck as a human, that ain't happening. Go to betterhelp.com. Betterhelp.com, please sponsor us. Not sponsored. Well, thanks for coming on. Of course. We'll have to have you on again. Thanks for having me. Next time Rob will be here and we'll have him chatting too.
01:43:08
Speaker
So yeah, thanks everybody for listening. And I always do this, I say this, but then I'm going to hit that thing and it's going to be a recording of me saying the same thing. It's just like an echo. But yeah, thanks everybody. We'll talk to you next week. We truly appreciate you listening. If you want to support the show, leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Share the show with your friends or consider subscribing to our Patreon. We'll see you next week.
01:43:55
Speaker
Yeah.