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The American School System Should Teach Personal Finance
61 Plays1 year ago
Why don't schools teach kids about money? The "pieces" discuss whether personal finance should become part of the core curriculum in secondary schools. Lance thinks the current lack of interest in financial education is possibly a conspiracy. Matt wonders whether people would make the same stupid money mistakes even if schools taught them personal finance.
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Transcript
The Future of Children and Education
00:00:00
Speaker
I believe children are future. Teach them well, let them lead the
Advocating for Personal Finance Education in Schools
00:00:06
Speaker
way. Well hello America. Don't you think all secondary schools in our country should teach personal finance? Wouldn't it be great if we taught kids how to navigate capitalism? Suppose schools required a personal finance class from 6th grade through 12th grade to help our children build healthy spending and saving habits.
00:00:25
Speaker
Consistent reinforcement of personal finance concepts could prevent our kids from becoming mindless consumers. Do we really want our children to drown in debt their whole lives only to help the wealthy get richer? I don't think so, America. Let's teach our children to win the game of money.
Satirical Personal Finance Curriculum
00:00:43
Speaker
Here are my course descriptions for teaching personal finance in the American public school system.
00:00:50
Speaker
sixth grade. Your parents be trippin'. In this course, students learn their parents' lives run on credit. Credit is defined as magic money that impulsive people use to buy stuff they can't afford. Students explore several real-world cases to demonstrate how credit manipulates everyday people into thinking they have baller status. Case studies like Daddy got a new motorcycle so I can't get new shoes. And a balance transfer card showed up in the mail and mom and dad went to Las Vegas. But now mom screams at us if we ask for McDonald's. By the end of this course, students realize parents lie about money. They'll see firsthand by observing their own home life how the overuse of magic money destroys families.
Banking System Perceptions and Credit Implications
00:01:40
Speaker
seventh grade In this course, students learn the origins and function of money by first examining the concepts of trade and barter. Students experiment with various trade and barter transactions. For example, what happens if Nathan tries to trade 5 Tootsie Roll Pops with Ronnie to see a picture of Mrs. Bentley peeing in the staff bathroom?
00:02:04
Speaker
What happens if Ronnie doesn't like Tootsie Roll Pops? Will Nathan still get to see Mrs. Bentley's hoo-hoo shooting pee? Introducing money, a more efficient medium of exchange. Nathan will learn Ronnie prefers money to Tootsie Roll Pops because Ronnie can use money to buy other things. Trade and barter experiences like these help students transition to the concept of money as a store of purchasing power and wealth. The idea of entrepreneurship is also introduced as kids discover what their classmates value. Wanna know how Ronnie got that picture of Mrs. Bentley?
00:02:40
Speaker
That will cost you too, says Ronnie. 8th grade. Bank robbers. In this course, students become familiar with the banking system. They learn banks hold on to money, and when you're not using it, banks lend the money out to other people for a profit. Students will find this money creation process perplexing, and it will feel criminal to them. Students discover banks give people credit to buy stuff. They reflect on how their parents' financial lives were ruined in sixth grade due to bank-issued credit cards.
00:03:15
Speaker
They learn about the mysterious and unfair fees that banks charge their customers. By the end of this course, most students realize banks exploit the poor.
Critique of Personal Finance in School Curricula
00:03:26
Speaker
ninth grade budget dysphoria In this course, students learn that a budget is something they'll likely avoid most of their life. They'll discover budgets provide a view into reality and for many people, reality is a sad place. Students practice creating budgets and learn to manage the emotional pain of putting limits on their choices and spending. Students gain experience lashing out against the constraints of their fictitious budget by simulating adult YOLO behavior.
00:03:56
Speaker
Students also simulate the life circumstances associated with soul-crushing debt and learn how budgeting may be a better solution than avoidance. tenth grade your last name ain't jones Students are asked to play the fictional but realistic money game. The game starts with the students picking a career. As students roll the dice, the money game entices them to adopt extravagant and excessive lifestyles. Most students choose to overspend in the game and this leads to mounting debt and a low savings rate.
00:04:31
Speaker
The game demonstrates the consequences of keeping up with the Joneses, including role-playing, volatile marital arguments as well as experiencing divorce, depression, and substance abuse. 11th Grade – God Damn Taxes Many students will simply ignore this course content and choose to attack the teaching profession as an example of government overreach and unfair taxes. Students will echo their parents' beliefs and may voice concerns like, my parents paid for your salary and your big retirement pension. You wouldn't have a job if it weren't for my parents paying taxes.
00:05:09
Speaker
This vitriol will carry over into the parent-teacher conference where many parents seem to double down with comments like, How can you teach personal finance when you don't understand what it takes to earn money in the real world? Teachers will try to explain that they have relatively low salaries for their education level and that they pay taxes just like everyone else. This explanation won't satisfy parents and they'll create a petition to ban personal finance curriculum in the school system.
00:05:39
Speaker
12th grade, retirement hallucinations. In this course, students will be encouraged to play the money game again. The game will sway students to believe retirement is something losers do when they don't love their life. They'll be compelled to adopt a passion-driven life where they, quote, never work a day in their life.
00:06:00
Speaker
By the beginning of the second semester, the money game turns realistic and shows students how their passion for life ultimately fizzles. The game replicates middle-aged languishing and takes students through common escapisms like alcohol abuse, adultery, compulsive gambling, and overeating. Students come to realize their vices have cannibalized their retirement funds and there's no money left.
00:06:25
Speaker
Teachers will recall student and parent behavior from 11th grade, and instead of offering solutions to the student's retirement conundrum, they'll say, you'll be folding clothes at TJ Maxx into your 80s, but not me. I'm collecting a fat teacher's pension and living in Cancun. Those that can't do, teach?
Personal Reflection on Financial Education
00:06:45
Speaker
Ha, I won, you little motherfucker.
00:07:07
Speaker
Yeah. Stare at That is comedy gold, bro. It's coming out of nowhere. I don't remember us having any teachers where yeah were guys were like infatuated.
00:07:21
Speaker
But it didn't matter when you're younger, especially middle school. It's like you were horny for anything, like just in. I just remember all the girls in our school, like there was a bunch of guys, like all our football coaches, all the girls that were like fucking rock stars. Yeah. Like we didn't have, there was no like a female teacher though. I mean, no offense, EHS, early nineties, great people. Right. Well, maybe that was a sexist take. I should have said stare at his package, stare at his package.
00:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, because it had it happens that way too, bro. Mm hmm. Because you always you always think the older person's the aggressor, but sometimes the younger person is like, I remember some I remember having a conversation, this is a way off topic, but a conversation with someone in our high school a girl who was like one of the football coaches, a lot of the girls thought was hot.
00:08:15
Speaker
And the conversation was kind of like, oh, these stories. I think this is, those stories coming out in the early 90s where teachers were hooking up with students and it was always national news. But I just remember the girl going, well, if it happened to me with him, that'd be great or something like that.
00:08:34
Speaker
that some Something like that. Yeah, dude. She's coming off listening to Sting's Don't Stand So Close To Me fantasizing. You remember that song? Yeah, of course, dude. Yeah, of course you do. dude I just don't remember us having having that teacher. Everyone was like, damn. Female? Yeah. There were a few, man. There were a few. But I can't place it. Don't you remember the track coach? She has short hair. No. I forgot. She was a teacher. yeah I think she was a special, Ed. But pretty fly, dog. Really?
00:09:10
Speaker
But no I don't remember that man. I got screwed on that. Yeah. Uh, but you know, let's win the game of finance America. What'd you think of the intro, dude? Well, another, another bang up job. Uh, I question whether it's that easy, man. If it's just a matter of education and, uh, interesting to hear what you'd, what you'd, uh, you know, what you, what you put in the curriculum for that class.
00:09:38
Speaker
I do, I remember in college, my it was an entrepreneur was like an entrepreneurial class. It was a general business class, but a guy came, he he got really rich, like running, I don't know. He was like early in on running like shuttle services up to central city. Probably went bankrupt because that business model probably flop, but but he was getting a lot of hype and he was like, I can't tell you how many business
Teaching Finance in the Digital Age
00:10:00
Speaker
business people or people like young kids don't even know how to balance their checkbook or but or do their finances. and that he was like that's that's a big hurdle when you start a business was like the entry point for him i don't think anyone's balancing check books anymore no but i. Like some general knowledge of what you doing like the simple math of of input versus output should. Is important right when dealing with financing.
00:10:28
Speaker
Yeah, there's a couple of things here. I think it's critical. And then then I think in this year, it's even more critical because money has a way of feeling fake, like it's in ah some sort of magical virtual reality world because it's all digital now. I mean, very rarely are kids carrying around.
00:10:45
Speaker
cash anymore. They've got cards, they've got the Venmo, they've got all the whatever. And then yeah you add in Bitcoin and cryptocurrency and things like that. It's just an interesting environment to try to manage money. But I wonder if there's a and stats, like to your point, is is the people that are way in over their heads going up because it's so easy now to do that?
00:11:08
Speaker
I know straight up from the gambling perspective, that's through the roof. And then as I think I mentioned last last episode, obviously consumer debt has been climbing here recently, but I don't think most of America is doing well. And this is why I would teach personal finance throughout um You could even do it in elementary school. So the curriculum, to be honest, i was I was joking here, but the curriculum could really follow what I outlined in a lot of ways. You have to teach ah just the the cultural significance of money. You have to teach what money is. ah You have to actually describe it as a medium of exchange. I'm not saying I know how to teach that to kids. You gotta talk about the banking system. You have to talk about budgeting. You gotta talk about,
00:11:56
Speaker
jobs and careers, investing, saving, so forth, so on, and ultimately retirement. And you can't do that with kids in one year. You've got to really work through a curriculum. And then mostly you've got to get them to you got to get all humans to apply the emotional side of this to the to the number side of this, which is which is the biggest problem. And they have to start thinking about their own their own values, their own interests, and what the trade-offs are. So what we miss and money and why everybody gets the fucking credit card in college and goes ballistic is we miss trade-offs. We miss understanding trade-offs. And that's the biggest gap. Now, whether my suggested curriculum, which was mostly tongue-in-cheek, is exactly what we should do. That's a different question, but here's my biggest problem, and this will jump off from here.
00:12:47
Speaker
I just don't get why this isn't already part of the school system on a regular basis. Tell me another subject that's going to be more important to most people's lives, short of just learning social skills in elementary school. What subject is going to be more important to people's lives than you know navigating capitalism and and managing their money?
00:13:07
Speaker
I can't figure it out. And so I don't really understand why this hasn't been a part of the school system. is To me, I feel like it's sort of conspiracy level. Like somebody's lobbying against this. I'm not sure.
Who Should Teach Kids About Finance?
00:13:21
Speaker
So but do you think like, where's the responsibility lie, right? So do you, do you talk about this with your kids personally? Or first of all, is there any like your kids are in a ah public high school in the US or your son as your daughter was? Was there any options any any even close to this that you know of?
00:13:42
Speaker
So there's options to take business courses, economics courses and in high school, and I think they cover investing and different things like that, but it's so short-lived, it doesn't really tie money into a person's life, essentially their lifelong pursuit of happiness. It doesn't link the two, which and now you and I know as adults, having gone through all this, our middle-aged losers, that it's so integral into everything you wanna do, including relationships. and So there are classes, people will come in and do some some small little week-long financial segments for elementary school kids, and there's different programs. But no, ah it doesn't exist in a way that makes a meaningful impact. And we can see that clearly in how people operate.
00:14:28
Speaker
it's it's We're debt-ridden society, savings rate is fucking minuscule. It's a pathetic consumer society where you'll see the more educated figure this game out and then a lot of other people, the vast the vast majority of our population doesn't. This to me is ah sad. And our government, by the way, sitting on a $2 trillion dollar deficit. Yeah, different, I mean, economists will say that's a different type of money, but whatever.
00:14:59
Speaker
It, uh, I don't know. Why wouldn't, why wouldn't you, do you not agree that, do you think it's in the best interest of banks and the financial community to have an educated society or do they, is it better if people are a little moronic? I think, I don't know. I mean, it's, it's like the alternative to like all the stuff that kind of bothers you, bothers us about these like capitalistic endless growth and spend and consumerism.
00:15:28
Speaker
People would argue they are are the ah the alternative is like a shrinking and stagnant and shitty economy with less jobs and all that stuff. But it seems like the education system could use an overall with like like teaching from a young age, things that we might consider mental health or dealing with stuff, financial health, and maybe even like relationship health. Seems like should be way more important than almost anything. As you get older, you realize like that's where all your failures are. And everything else will come into place. I mean, you need basic skills like communication, and math and stuff like that to get through life. But if you have these other things dialed in, um it makes life a hell of a lot easier. It seems like this could fit into that. Like what puts stress on relationships? What puts stress on your mental health?
00:16:17
Speaker
One of the big markers is financial issues, right? Like financial concerns. And usually we create those own problems for ourselves because of this access to debt and like stupid decisions and the idea that everybody else is fucking partying. So why why can't I? And so why can't I do it now with borrowed money? And that that's what gets us in trouble. Why can't I have that car? Why can't I have that house? um So yeah, I agree that we we should learn about it. I don't know where the responsibility is, but Well, do you think that this type of curriculum would be a lightning rod for political factions to like lose their mind about how it's taught and what principles are taught?
00:17:00
Speaker
or do you think it's straightforward? Because they would be like, you're going to kill the economy if everyone's educated like that. like or or Or just more of like, ideologies. Yeah. Personal finance is somewhat personal. And so like you, I'm just thinking of like a Christian who's teaching financial abundance and just has some core ideas about that. And and like tithing. yeah Yes. Stuff like that. Right.
00:17:29
Speaker
I wonder if this would be fraught with just constant debate and people losing their mind. I have a, I don't know. I mean, I think it's something you actually, it could be, but it could be like um a unifying thing. Like, cause we, it's something that both your, no matter what your beliefs are, you, you struggle with. So. right But it's more like, ah, OK. I don't know. Because the bigger picture is like, what do we? It's funny that we're we're educated. like There's just this every idea that like education is the best. You need to get educated. But what we're really saying is you've got to use that um as a means for financial success. And like the idea of shoot for the stars usually means shoot for the stars financially.
00:18:14
Speaker
And so if this almost would be like a counter argument to that, to like being more pragmatic and staying within your lane, your budget and everything like that. yeah So that might be where some of the tension is created. It's like shoot for the lane, Brigini. And you'd be teaching like finance a Prius pussy and pay it off in two years. I don't know that you teach. fucking You need that you need ah like a hard-ass teacher. Yeah.
00:18:40
Speaker
but I mean, I don't know that you would teach specifics like that. You would just teach concepts and trade offs and get kids to understand their own view of it. And it's age appropriate, of course. Yeah. We'll have to spend time buying condoms. Yeah. But if you could enlighten it, getting laid with your pussy ass car.
00:19:01
Speaker
What if you could enlighten a kid that if they they were fantasizing about a Lamborghini, like what the trade-offs were of, well, so given what your fictitious career makes, it looks like you're gonna have trouble ah buying a house or whatever. If you could get people to understand those those types of concepts, it would be helpful ah for for later in life. But do you think parents should own this?
00:19:26
Speaker
Yeah, a little bit. I mean, I'm trying to do it now trying to trying to give our kids a certain amount of month, like kind of transfer from them asking me for money so they have to make a decision like am I going to get this or am I going to do this? And oh if I want this bigger thing, I need to save for a few months. So we're trying to do that. But.
00:19:43
Speaker
I mean, it all helped. Everything is the parent's responsibility, but like ah but you know. and So we're gonna take a bunch of dipshits who ah haven't figured out how to manage money and ask them to teach their kids how to do it? Well, I mean, it's, yeah, it's but it's like, you get everything's like that, like down the birth control or... or you Sex or like everything is like most parents fuck up, but they are good parents. It should be on their list, right? Well, well that's the core question, right? Is this
00:20:18
Speaker
So birth control, whatever, that's more of a values thing. That's like… Or abstinence, dude. Yeah, there you go. That's more of a values thing. So it's personal financial education of values conversation. And so the school system tries not to… doesn't… well, they pray that they don't get involved in these major values issues because that's what causes controversy. It's personal finance of values issue.
Influence of Finance Education on Social Norms
00:20:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I look at it as like, you know, they said that like, it's kind of like sex ed to me, like where they start to, they try to, they really try to impress on teenagers, like how, how much you can fuck up your life if you got pregnant, in addition to STDs or, but it, but it's really like, you know, that's going to change the trajectory of your life, a teenage pregnancy, like more, but more than any other thing you could do. And And your parents should probably be giving you that message as well, although no one's really thinking about it when they're in the heat of the moment, probably. So that's kind of useless sometimes. But if there was also a message from school, how much crippling debt could fuck up the trajectory of your life? If that message was coming from the school at the same time, it'd probably be a good thing.
00:21:33
Speaker
Yeah, but I'm not just talking about the warning signs of of being a loser financially. I'm more of talking about- That should lead into ah a positive message of how to handle things, right? Well, it could, yeah. But like, I don't know that a future value formula, which turns out to be a critical thing for people to manage money, is the same as showing a picture of a vagina with gonorrhea on it. I mean, it's not the same type of conversation. I think there's a lot lot more really- 32 years later, it's still it's still getting the job done for me.
00:22:03
Speaker
I'm like, get away from me, woman. The slides ruined me. Okay, so you could have some warning signs around finance and how things go way wrong, which is a lot of what I was saying in the intro, I was trying to be goofy with it. But I wonder what, yeah, the question is, would that do anything?
00:22:22
Speaker
i i don't I mean, if you embed this, it seems like what our society embraces more than anything is capital. And ah labor as ah is at an extreme disadvantage. And for them to understand the economic system and be able to navigate it and manage money within it seems like ah a core curriculum that we should be teaching our society.
00:22:46
Speaker
I don't know. To me, again, I'll go back. It just feels a little conspiratorial that we aren't teaching this in a broad way. And so we now leave it up to people to figure it out in college somehow, or figure it out along the way.
00:22:59
Speaker
And there's such an information asymmetry between your average person and financial institutions that you get what you get. You get people getting taken advantage of. People don't know that a 2% fee on assets under management is extremely high. They don't know that. So they're just getting raped by some financial advisor that that has the the knowledge and and therefore the power.
00:23:27
Speaker
I think that's good. I mean, I think it's good. I mean, I don't know if there's anything negative to take away from it. If that was a class, like, because I think you would start it early in kindergarten, like the basic ideas of like, I have something, I have something, you have money. Money is is a way to ah to obtain things that you need. Like you start, you know, you the building blocks of like what a transaction is. Yeah, why exactly.
00:23:52
Speaker
And then you have, then you start to lean into like, all right, I financed it. What does a mortgage mean? What is good debt? What is bad debt? What is debt that like, what's the positive, what's the positives of a credit card where it's, we should have, well, like emergency situations or something like that. What's the negative side of having credit card is buying stuff that you can't afford. yeah And then you flow into like budgeting and then getting into like fees and shit like that as they get older, it's like, there's a cost. Someone giving you financial advice, there's ah there's a cost to it.
00:24:21
Speaker
Right, yeah, it could be, but you can't do it in one semester course in high school. No, it's like, it's gotta go, it's like language. Like if you wanna learn another language, people try to throw it in elective at junior year of high school, you're never gonna learn the language, but like my kids that are learning a language from kindergarten, it's a fairly simple process for them. Right, right. So I think you'd have some real problems here because there's just a lot of different factions and how they,
00:24:51
Speaker
what their beliefs are about money. You've got the money is the root of all evil people and you've got the ah get as much as you want, do whatever it takes to get it. Right. You have the blacks that are usually more flashy.
00:25:05
Speaker
Yeah. Nice. Actually that's a quote I believe from, do you remember that defensive man who died? I think it was Reggie white. Oh yeah. He gave a speech like he got in trouble for, but he was just characterizing every race.
00:25:20
Speaker
And he was like, the Jews, we all know they're good with money. Black people like to celebrate and have fun. White people, it was it was pretty real, but it was like it funny. It was just like, you you can't really go public with that one, bro. Take it easy. It's pretty fun. Now we can. Sorry, I cut you off there, but I had to get it. I don't know where I was going. Yeah, I don't know where I was going. I just say there there might be some difficulty in getting this curriculum into the education system. I i don't that's i don't understand that. the whyi I don't understand why you think that.
00:25:51
Speaker
Because I think some people think this is a values thing. And I think a lot of parents walk around day to day feeling shameful about their money situation. They really do, man. so like i do how many Of all the people you know,
00:26:11
Speaker
Wouldn't you say them that's a bigger question? Go ahead. Wouldn't you say most of them are are when you say most of people, you know, are probably not great with money? I mean, I would say that with everybody I know and and now I mean, um it depends on what where you're judging. I'm just seeing people who are total train wrecks with it. And I don't say anything. I don't judge them. But I yeah, we're not doing well. I feel like if you analyze If you analyze couples, they're like you know you go out on the fun little couple's date or are barbecue and there's and everyone's bullshitting about money and there's always one person who's like free spender and the other one's more like prac like frugal. There's always that. yeah I don't know if everyone's bad with money, but I don't know. I mean, I see people that are good with money too that seem like they have a plan. And it seems like that when you have a plan, there's like less stress about it.
00:27:08
Speaker
so to speak, because you think it'd be the other way, right? Like the freewheelers are like, I don't fuck care about money. But there's probably a a hint of a stress. I'm a little bit like that. But like, yeah, that that was something actually with my wife, you know, she'd be like, you're always worried about money. And I'm like, well, I'm not worried about it because I'm worried about it was kind of my answer. If that makes sense, right? Yeah, you got to manage with my eyes on it, managing it. And therefore, I'm not it might seem to you like I'm worried about it if I'm keeping my eyes on it. But So, but those basic principles, I don't know if there'd be too much pushback. It's just like, how do you fit it in the curriculum? Like, how do you fit it in? I don't know where the pushback would be. Yeah, okay. That would be good. Do you buy into the there' there being some controversy or?
00:27:55
Speaker
anti-financial education lobbying. Now, I know the banks have their own version of it. Now, I get a little leery of that. The banks have their own version of financial education. They actually staff lots of people to do that. And what's what's their financial education going to be? Oh, yes. Here, sign up for these products, essentially. You need this. You need that.
00:28:16
Speaker
Yeah, they're selling products. See, that's why it'd be good in school if there was no like, right, but it pretty quickly be sponsored by like, Morgan Stanley or whatever. like Well, that's what I'm saying. And I think that that there is something to be said about a potential conspiracy here and and some serious pushback from corporations on how this gets this kind of gets structured.
00:28:37
Speaker
But we're not doing well, dude. And I, ah every time I see a kid, I just, coming into high school, I just go, dude, you're gonna, you are gonna get smacked in the face unless your parents are are wealthy. You're gonna get smacked in the face, but it's some dumb shit. and And just to give you a couple examples of things we did. I'm gonna fucking. Did you need, yeah, I wanna, you're gonna give your examples, but I.
00:29:00
Speaker
I wanna hear in the end if it was positive for you because it was a learning lesson and you had to go through it or if you thought it could've been taught, it would've been preventable. Like back to my sex thing, like you're at a party, someone actually is gonna hook up with you, do you go, wait a minute, this could create offspring, it's gonna change my life trajectory or you're like, it's like,
00:29:21
Speaker
but I'll let you do your examples. but like the you know that You know what I mean? You're gonna school your way out of the, I think you're gonna say an unnecessary trip to Cancun for spring break. Are you thinking rationally in that in that moment? right ah Go ahead.
00:29:39
Speaker
I think there's a lot of factors that lead up to some of those decisions. But yeah, so I mean, when I was in college, I wouldn't have done this with proper education. I got- You think? Yes. i got i got I got some extra student loan money that I didn't even know what it was. All of a sudden in my checking account was like $2,100. Had no idea that it was from,
00:30:04
Speaker
you know, the increases as I um went up in grade in the financial funding that's provided. So I'm just like, sweet. I was taking out my own loans, never paid attention to the interest rate or how that functioned. I wasn't taught any of that. My parents probably weren't in a good position to teach it anyway. So I take that money and go buy a car. I go buy like a piece of shit. to not I didn't have a job to get to, I just wanted a car.
00:30:33
Speaker
And I'm using student loan money to buy that, right? And then I still had a car payment, a little car payment, so I had to get a job. It's just an all around terrible financial decision. I would not have done that with proper education. I would argue that that was way better than what you could have done with the money though.
00:30:49
Speaker
For sure, it wasn't a terrible decision, but you know my wife at the time, when we needed to go to Hawaii for a wedding, she took out high interest, student loan debt, so we could go to Hawaii. Terrible, that's a terrible decision. Now, here's the thing. Had we...
00:31:08
Speaker
had better financial education prior to the Hawaii chip trip coming on board, we probably would have had like a cash reserve and all that shit. We probably would have had savings in order to cover some of those stuff. How old were you in this, do you think? 24, 23, 24. We probably would have had some savings. Now it's like this, so like the, but the mindset of,
00:31:30
Speaker
of youth coming out of college is like, you only live once, we got to do this, we got to do this, which it seems to carry out into further adulthood. My point is basically a lot of those things that we would have done, life could have been structured differently financially to where you don't do that.
Youth Financial Decisions and Education Impact
00:31:48
Speaker
The other thing we had is our, my sister-in-law, we didn't know, like she got in with some mortgage idiots in 2005 who were selling the interest only mortgages, terrible for us. And she's like, look, I can lower your payment. And we're just like, fuck yeah.
00:32:08
Speaker
That was great back then. Everyone was just like, no, it makes sense. Everyone's doing it. It's like, yeah, right. I like the message too was like, and then you save the money you're not paying, then you have some flexibility with but which no one does. Right. Nobody so puts that into the stock market to out earn the interest rate or whatever. ah Yeah. So like those are three things right off the top of my head that I'm like with good financial education, especially over the long term, those could be avoided. Those kinds of decisions could be avoided. And then we had, of course, dig ourselves out of that debt.
00:32:37
Speaker
is it Is it paid off yet? Your trip to Hawaii? No. still still there Yeah, it's paid off, of course. No, but that is, that's real for a lot of people. Like they don't know what they're paying off anymore because it's just, it's been going on forever, right? Totally.
00:32:54
Speaker
Yeah, man, I don't know. I don't think I just wonder like that wedding in Hawaii is not going away because you took a class. And so there are times in your 20s, the 20s are tough, man. ah Everyone's getting married and you just like just keep getting buried and you don't have the financial income yet so to figure it out. And it's like,
00:33:15
Speaker
You really gotta be frugal to like to handle it, and nobody is. It's like, you wanna stop going out, you're in your 20s, you wanna stop going out to you, you wanna stop going to bars, you spend a lot of money on that shit, and there's a bachelor party and a wedding every fucking six months, and like you're just like, you just have to turn everything off is the only way out of it. Well, not necessarily, I mean, if you had like financial principles drilled into you for seven, eight, nine, 10 years,
00:33:43
Speaker
My guess is some knowledge about that stage of life would be in your brain. like I mean, that's a stage of life where some of those activities crop up. So how about playing for it?
00:33:56
Speaker
You know, we jumped into a buying a condo for no fucking reason other than just socially accepted. And people are like, you should buy something when we should have just been in. And like we were hanging out just two of us, been in like a cheap apartment in Capitol Hill enjoying ourselves. so So all those decisions are sort of linked together. And then you have money to go to special things like Hawaii. And yeah, you would have to, if you had knowledge, you might make the choice not to go like buy the round of drinks every weekend for, for your buddies.
00:34:26
Speaker
you know or you know how you know people try to act like ballers. Yeah. There's there's other like there's other things too, which I don't know if you can be taught. For example, you and I were pursuing something that we knew for a long time wasn't going to pay us a lot of money, and that created like a real issue because we could have just gone out and started got on the path and tried to make money. and like and Then you got to go, all right, if I'm going to do that, like if I'm going to be in a band,
00:34:54
Speaker
That's why it's so hard to do if you're in a relationship. If I'm gonna be a comedian or in a band, I gotta give up on everything. Like, I probably can't go to the wedding in Hawaii. I probably can't do all this crap. And like, youre that's why your circle of friends become like, only the people you're with are comedians or whatever. And and ah and for for it's probably worth it, but it's, I think there's like a class, it's almost like just basic balance of like, if you do this, you can't do this.
00:35:23
Speaker
And the credit card companies would say, you can do it all because you have this. And that's so the class would be like, that's not true. Right. I mean, to be part of it, but like we went on our first tour, it was like two and a half, three weeks. And we came back with a net positive 300 and our manager at the time was like, awesome. You know, most bands don't come back with any money, usually in the hole. And I'm like, I'm thinking at that time, of having major in economics, like what the fuck?
00:35:54
Speaker
this This sucks. There's no way to make a living. You really have to, yeah, you need to manage around money in those professions, like dramatically. Actually that's, I remember a few older comedians that were successful, but but actually had real jobs before they really went far where like the financial piece is really overlooked in this stuff. Like the ability to like move around and have money and do like, okay, we need another amp in your business or I, oh, I have a,
00:36:23
Speaker
I can get on a show in New York that might turn me on to something. I need to be able to get there. And for a lot of young comedians, it's like, all right, fucking $300 in credit card, and I'm going to be taking the credit card company, calling me for that money like for years. But like if you have some money, you go do it stress free. like Managing your money in that sense is huge. That's why you see a lot of lot of comics.
00:36:44
Speaker
the ones that live close to a major market, they they can still live with their parents and like shit like that, that helps. You know you see them like branch out or they have a wife who works or they're at least smart enough. Like they moved in New York city. they don't They don't just be like, I'm gonna be a fucking deadbeat comic. i'm going They'll be like, I'm gonna temp work during the day or substitute teach to get some bills. But like, yeah, I mean, there's a lot of shit you can learn. I just wonder if it's like school parents or life lessons, it's gonna teach it.
00:37:14
Speaker
yeah Yeah. Well, I don't know that we even need to argue about the whether the curriculum makes sense. I think we both agree it probably does. I just can't imagine why it's not already in place. Yeah, I can't either. It's it's absurd to me. Would you like take it or would it have to be forced? No, I think it's a core course. Because I wonder, yeah.
00:37:35
Speaker
It's just so important to our society. Like even what you're just saying, what you're outlining is like, so we have this big, big dream, American dream. That's like, go do this. Yeah, you got this, dude. But you do need to for to make a career in comedy sustainable so that you can even get to the next level. You do need to manage around the money piece.
00:37:55
Speaker
Obviously, it's well known in Hollywood that people wait tables for 20 years to get their break, but you really need to understand the the consequences of that and and truly be able to manage it. I would recommend for most people, go get a corporate job you don't like, and this is going to sound uninspiring, but Like that is going to afford you some daydreaming space to figure out who you are and what you wanna do. It's gonna afford you a lot. And you probably won't love it, but there's structure to pay you well and give you the benefits that you need to survive in this and this society. The other directions that you might wanna take, high risk stuff, you better know what's up. You better know what's up, money wise. There's so much though, there's so many people that are gonna be like, if you if you're you're giving yourself something to fall back on and
00:38:42
Speaker
quote George Clooney. That's what his dad was like, go, go to school or whatever. And then you have something to fall back on. And he's like, if I go find, have something to fall back on, I probably will. Well, so look at clones, bro. Look at it. They're all those people that are going to do that no matter what. And they'll make the sacrifice and they're all in. And those are the people that really end up running the entertainment industry and having successful careers. But most of us just sort of half dream.
00:39:13
Speaker
And like, oh, I would, boy, if I had a dog walking business, I would just love that. And it's like, i so some of those people, I kind of say like, shut the fuck up, get a corporate job, learn how to manage your money. And then when you have a ah sense of stability, you can really get clear about what else you can do. It's that half dreaming that I get it. Like, okay, you can have a dog walking business, but learn how to run it.
00:39:39
Speaker
Sure, if you're all in, go for it. um um But like it's more of like, we have this society of like, oh, well, I can do this, and I can do that, and I can do this. No, you're not in reality. Manage your fucking money, get your shit together, and then you can go do the thing that's you're that you're shooting the shit about. Well, I just mean like,
00:39:59
Speaker
That's great. Whatever it is, like, okay, but they like a class on how to analyze the opportunity, the financial opportunity is would be good. You're considering it. Because even if you go, I want to be a comedian, all right, it's 10 years before you're going to be making 40 grand a year. land The sky is 50 million a year. Like, you're not that far away from it ever. But This is what you're gonna have to do to do it, to live and not not be completely fucked. You're gonna have to wait tables at 25,000 a year, you got to do this. And then somebody go, all right, I can see it. Like I think people think all that shit is so overwhelming. So in the dog walking example, if there was a class, you're kind of like, well, you and you you got it down to this. You need 50 dogs.
00:40:44
Speaker
to make, to make a living. Like you could get, you get it down to that, right? I need, yeah I need to book 35 clubs a year at 400 bucks a feature week. Of course, if you're, if you're strong enough to headline the Wednesdays and Sundays, you might be bumping that up 75800. That's right, bro. yeah Like if you, if you analyze your band, how many of you guys, five guys? well Well, like I want to comment on that and I'll tell you, but like,
00:41:11
Speaker
You're right. In an entrepreneurial an entrepreneurship class, you could teach that very thing, like how to analyze what it takes to do certain businesses and and have certain careers. But yeah, to answer your question, I did run the numbers with my band. We were running with six people and I quickly said, shit, how if I needed to make a living here, i gotta fire we gotta fire two people. but you know In my head, I'm like, two people have to go.
00:41:38
Speaker
Jake. Just kidding. Do you think the Houltice kids are still, still listening? Come clean with it, Lance. Who are you going to fire? And so they've made financial sense for you. Want the Houltice family to know. Yeah. This was near the end where like I was at risk of leaving anyway, but yeah, I was like, you have to fire a couple of people because you could, you're a regional band. You're going to make between 300 and 800 per gig. Yeah.
00:42:06
Speaker
And need just to survive, think about that. Well, that yeah, so that's it. like You need to start booking $10,000, $15,000 gigs. like Right, you have to get there. But you need the notoriety, which is just gigging a lot. So you'll see some young bands, at least back in the day. I have no idea what they do now. 200 plus shows a year.
00:42:30
Speaker
but don't you think That's a But all this, like that idea, getting it down to like what a number that you need is is is the actual skill that you need because you can funnel everything through that. Your trip to Hawaii, your your you know everything can be looked at as like, all right, this is what it means. I just don't think people know what it means. And maybe that might be the message, right?
00:42:51
Speaker
like, you know, when they the cost of raising a child when you're talking about teenage pregnancy, that kind of there's some sticker shock in that for like, in are a little while. Yes, if you go that trip to Hawaii is actually costing you, you know, 80, 120 hours, so three work weeks.
00:43:10
Speaker
of money, you know, or whatever, some number. Right, right. And there's probably people would listen to this kind of thing and be like, Oh, gag. So my whole life is about money, managing money. And like, you're making things not fun and all this stuff. To me, though, like, when you're right, when you manage it, and you have an understanding of it, a lot of that stress goes away, a lot of that chaos goes away. And like, as a musician, I i really did want to know, like, how could I make this work financially? How could I Otherwise, you'll fizzle out with everything that you're doing. And like a kid, really, what's the average daycare cost? I think it's like 1,500 bucks. And it's- I hear people in the US talking about that and I'm like- It's insane. I'm like, well, for the second spouse, I'm like, why are you working? It's like the second person is just working to pay for the daycare. The kid. Yeah, all the assholes. Why does not work? Stay at home.
00:44:09
Speaker
you know but Yeah, I, but yeah, that that stuff is, I don't know, like I wonder if all that is like, you know, like a home at class or what, I just don't know why there, why there would be a lot of pushback. And I don't know who would, who would pushback. I think fundamentally, the financial industry loves the fact that people are bad with money. It's so much more profitable to have somebody teetering on, um I wouldn't say bankruptcy, but teetering on just sort of unhealthy financial habits and sustaining themselves.
00:44:48
Speaker
than it is for a customer like me like me yes i said like me no it is so much more profitable i think there's some benefit there and i can't say that that's why we don't have curriculum for kids but it i don't know i think they'd they'd be like go ahead teach him These fucking seals can't control themselves and be like, teach them all you want. Yeah, Vegas calls, pussies, yeah. But in a healthy, so in a financially healthy society, and by that, I mean, our citizens really know how to manage money. Would you see so many, you know, payday ah check cashing places? Would you see that many of them? It's all in just the app. Like I, a couple of the sports things I watched was actually US advertising and you're like,
00:45:33
Speaker
fuck It's like, that's the cliche shit, so much pharmaceutical, but there's also a lot of like, get paid fast, like ads for everything, like micro or short term loans, you're like, damn. How much, well, it works because we're idiots, but how much buy now, pay later would happen in a healthy society of financially educated individuals?
00:45:58
Speaker
Almost none. We, we actually, I think we thrive on this, this cycle of being in overly indebted to organizations, corporations and getting it now. I think this is probably pretty obvious to most people, but as far as the curriculum goes, there are barriers to getting that put into place for sure. I think there's lobbying that would happen. Could be, could be.
00:46:23
Speaker
um When did, how did you figure it out though? Like, so we're talking about doing it in school and that's good. How did, cause you made, you said you made some serious fuckups, acting like an idiot. I think, I think we might've talked about a trip or something you did as well. You mentioned your wife went to Hawaii. When did you make, what did it take for you to make the change? Was it life lessons or did you actually take a class or like, ah and ah did you go like one of those adult financial planning classes, right? Cause I, there are people doing that. i think What's the guy Ramsey or something like that? Like that's kinda at the core of what he's doing, right? Yeah, and I would recommend that for a lot of people. No, I didn't do any of that. i i First I day traded for about nine months and that taught me some serious lessons about- So you built up a huge nest egg crushing it.
00:47:10
Speaker
Nope, I lost probably 30 grand. Then I found some financial bloggers that were kind of gurus in this idea of how to be financially independent, stop being a puppet, learn like treat your finances like you're the CFO of a major corporation and just sort of a mindset shift. That's where it all started. That was about 2006. What are these guys doing? What are they teaching?
00:47:34
Speaker
Like they're going like, hey, balance but you know you dad is that can be bad. Or like, is it more detailed? it's it It has all that, dude. But it's more lifestyle stuff of like, look, keeping up with the standards of consumption in our society, also known as keeping up with the Joneses, is an insidious scam.
00:47:55
Speaker
Stop doing it. And they start making fun of it and they start talking about how ridiculous it is for you to have certain cars and why your house is this and that. All the shit I bitch about all the time. It's like so ingrained in me at this point. um So they talk about that. Then they talk about like, really, you can you can leave work early. and And everybody at the beginning of this was like, what? What are you talking about? I can leave where I can retire early. And it's like, here's how you do it. And so it's a lot about like, just take control of your money, manage it like a business.
00:48:26
Speaker
and you can amass enough assets to have more freedom and make more choices. That's it, basic stuff. And along the way, you're learning details of of financial information. Not everybody is gonna come across these like fringe blogs. That was total luck, total fucking luck. yeah but there's a there's a You had to take the action. I mean, if I search solid financial planning, I'm sure there's some options and shit that could help like pretty quickly I could get to that.
00:48:54
Speaker
but No one's doing that. Whereas, where at least if it's in school, it's like they're going to hear it whether they want to or not. So at least there's the but foundation. They don't have to take the action. So it's kind of like, all right, do we force that on them, right?
00:49:08
Speaker
Right, I think you do because a lot of people get there and they go, they they realize they're in their low early 40s and they're like, I have nothing to show for like all this work. I have nothing to show. I'm in the same predicament of needing to work to survive necessarily, or just needing to work to survive. And they go, this is enough. And so then they do start seeking stuff
Parental Financial Transparency with Children
00:49:28
Speaker
out. So the the idea would be that people have this information and have actually some confidence about it earlier. That's it. It's not that hard.
00:49:37
Speaker
college College too late? Yeah, I think so. I think it's too late. So let me think on that for a second. Because because teenagers are ingraining financial habits already.
00:49:49
Speaker
like they're they they are Brands are are really trying to latch onto them early. They're trying to give them teen credit cards, this or that. And then there are, a lot of them are getting car payments and different things. Like, yeah, it's too late. Yeah. Like, have you, so I think raising a kid now, you got more experience with it. I'm just getting there. Like is, is like seems real risky and so easy for them to throw money around. And there's some positives in it. They're not just carrying around cash, but like,
00:50:21
Speaker
If you kind of give them access to some online accounts and shit that they can just pop a scan on their phone, like they can just throw money around, right? Like- Oh, dude, I could give you a million examples. Just funny money flying around. What's great though, I'll give my daughter credit. She's out there. She's about to to take on all of her bills by herself.
00:50:42
Speaker
at 19 and I said we would help you for a year and let you figure out what you wanna do. But if you're gonna continue being out in the world on your own, you're gonna take all your bills. She's about to take on her car insurance, which is a beast. It's a beast right now. The inflation's gone up like 15% on that shit. And then she's gonna take on her phone. She already has her rent and her food and her other bills and all that. And I can't enable, I'm i'm not gonna enable like bad financial behavior. She'll have to figure it out.
00:51:10
Speaker
So it's tough though, like this thing about parenting of like, uh, I don't want my kid to want for anything. I want to give them the world. And we do that through money and then we kind of fuck them up. Yeah. Well, you're, you're kind of, but you gave her, yeah, I wonder would you, you gave her, I don't know, it was an ultimatum or like what you were like, all right, I'm going to help you out, but then you gotta be out on, you're going to be on your own. And you kind of gave her a timeframe to work with.
00:51:34
Speaker
I gave her a timeframe. I said, we'll help you with the rent. I know you want to get out on your own. We'll help you with rent for about three months. Then you got to sustain that. And, and then I said, we'll pay for a few things for six months. And then I said, by, by a full year, if you just haven't decided to go off to college, which we have fully funded, right, yeah all your bills are yours. And so you need to prepare yourself. You, but you did the, they I guess for like any good American parent, the,
00:52:03
Speaker
The real goal is to see if she'd take the bait and go to college, right? I think she will. I don't know what she's fucking doing right now, but whatever that's for her to decide. But yeah, that was me to say like this. I just, I told her specifically, this is an easier life.
00:52:21
Speaker
This is deferred adulthood when you go to college, but every kid gets to decide. And actually I'm proud of her for like managing her shit and figuring it out. It's not been easy, I'm sure, but she's learning stuff that people won't learn until they're like 26. Well, that's what I was going to ask as a recommendation. Maybe the way she got to this wasn't how you planned, but it's almost like everybody should do that. If you don't really know why you're going to college, you should almost do what she's doing.
00:52:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's a good point can do it like that's one way to learn all this shit It's like yeah, because she probably not getting the I mean she probably you know Someone someone who's just getting going and life is not gonna be not gonna have hopefully not gonna have access to some high high Limit credit card is hope hopefully like the banks are like don't trust as much as as you don't and oh no, they won't So then you're like, all right, good. mike so And then she pretty quickly goes, this sucks. Fucking car insurance and everything and rent. Yeah, no, that's a reality. We gotta give her reality. But yeah, she's learned about guarantors for rent. Like we I said, we're not co-signing. We're not co-signing. You have to figure that out. And so guarantors are like these people that like help the landlord.
00:53:40
Speaker
Sign like low credit people or no credit people without worrying so much and then the the person renting has to pay like a Initiation fee she learned about that. Is that like you got to live in the hood or what? What's the no? No, you just have to pay ah extra money to sign a lease because the landlord needs additional assurance should you just like stop paying or because you don't have established credit, you're too young. They do it a lot with student housing or or housing off campus in college towns. So that that's something she had to learn about and like she just has to learn too like you know how to manage the cycle of money like when I get paid and all that. I love the idea of uh I like the idea you just made me think when you when people are like
00:54:26
Speaker
people start telling you like, no, you should, you should get some debt. It's good for your credit rating. Like, that's another part of the class is like, how can you do develop credit without losing your ass, right? Exactly. Well, yeah, utility bills, shit like that.
00:54:41
Speaker
Yeah, and then like I know parents parents, dude, that their kids have, like so all of them that I know, their kids have a credit card, like a family credit card. There's no concept of what that means. So I make my kid, my high school kid, he's got an allowance that comes in and then he's got to ask me to transfer it from his savings to his debit card.
00:55:03
Speaker
so that he's acknowledging like every time he goes, oh, I'm going to Chick-fil-A again. Oh, I'm going here. And then his paycheck, because he has a little reffing job, goes into his savings and he has to ask me to transfer it to his debit. So he gets used to like that cycle of saying, oh shit, I'm buying this again. Damn. So recently he's been more like, oh yeah, I don't want to pay for that. He's got to think about what he's spending.
00:55:31
Speaker
See, it feels like you're doing a pretty good job. You have a plan on how to get your kids to to at least think about the what goes into a transaction and what the what the real costs are. So why why that why would you need that supplemented with the school curriculum? like You just think that a lot of parents haven't done the work that you have, so their kids are fucked.
00:55:53
Speaker
Uh, I don't know what they've done, but like, I've not, I've not really done anything. I've just kind of, we have our environment and our preferences and our values and like, maybe they appeal to him. Maybe they don't, but there hasn't been like.
00:56:05
Speaker
or both of my kids rather, but there hasn't been like a ton of teaching. There's been a ton of like ranting perhaps, but no real teaching. Are you ranting on them about spending or? Just about society. So you obviously, you know me, man, that they've probably heard a bunch of that stuff, but like, no, there's not been any teaching. Like, do they know how to calculate future value? And do they know what compound growth is? Do they understand some of these concepts around budgeting? No.
00:56:33
Speaker
That's, that's what we're up against. I mean, this is since the beginning of time, but you're like, you're up against. It's not just some idiot parents, but there are parents that there's other issues where like, we've talked a little, like they want to be their kid's friend and they have a hard time saying no to their kid. So your kid's seeing another kid that's just letting it flow. Wants to buy the Skittles, always buying the Skittles, like, or wants to, oh yeah, you got every fucking video game. So I wonder,
00:57:02
Speaker
how many people are just like, you know, people other it's like, life's too short, just get them what they want. Like, like, that's what you're up against as well. So that that's the argument for putting it in school, because a lot of times the parent relationship isn't like what yours is. And it's hard, it's hard for parents to say no or explain to them what they don't know, because they're making the um the the same stupid financial decisions as well.
00:57:26
Speaker
Yeah. And I will close on this, dude. I just think that most people in this country have an unhealthy relationship with money, that there's some level of dysfunction, if not just total chaos for a lot of people. I think the school system can help that. You can't rely on parents, like I said, who are already dipshits with it. I'm not talking about everybody, not talking about you, not talking about people I know and love, some of them, yes, I am actually. But anyway, you can't put it on them to teach healthy habits with this. This is not, it's not like. Yeah, you can't put them on them because they just can't, it'd be like if I, if I have to teach my kid calculus, it's like, well, I can't really do it. No. Cause I don't, I don't know how to be a smart financial planner. Like, so I would, I'd almost like, this almost be a good question for your wife, but you know, when I, when we're talking,
00:58:21
Speaker
to therapists, like with some of the stuff my kids were trying to process with our separation. And then it kind of came up, like at the time I was losing my job. And it was like, what do you tell your kids about it? So I think there's a good conversation around, because you're saying like, you know, all these parents are being dipshits. Well, like, okay, and I think in your in your little funny skit at the beginning, you talked about, well, oh, the parent, the the parent, the kids don't know the parents whole life is finance, they don't own on anything.
00:58:50
Speaker
I wonder how much of the hardship or negative shit that you're doing or the stress you feel because of those decisions, you should share with your kids. Because I think the therapist was kind of like, don't put the your financial burdens on your kids. But these weren't like bad decisions that my wife and I made. This is just the reality like, all right, I need to look for another, right? Or whatever, right? And so I kind of I want to tell my kids like, hey, it's gonna be a little different, like, nonsense for every day after school, we're not going to fucking our version of whatever, like a convenience store to buy some bread. and yeah Yeah. Starbucks. And I don't know, that was I don't think it was contentious. But the one i was like, God, don't even put that on them. Just act like business as usual. And I'm kind of like, why? But I wonder what a psychologist or what do you think? of but Like, how much do they need to know?
00:59:42
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know that you want them in a constant fear state. And some things are adult appropriate to handle. But talking about have money for that, like that statement, is that too much? Or should I think so? I don't think so. I think giving realities of what it means to manage finances and and also realities of how things don't always go our way, but how we're gonna be fine. You can reassure with that, of course, but like you gotta say, hey, mean we're cutting back on some of these things because of this situation. And a four year old, of course not, right? But the kids, ages your kids are at for sure. Now, my wife does psychology for older adults over 65.
01:00:25
Speaker
A big portion of whats ah they portion of what she talks about is financial hang-ups or financial regrets. It's a big portion of it. um I don't think she could comment on child psychology, but I don't know, man. and I think reality is probably the best place to be and even for kids.
01:00:46
Speaker
ah just just I had to think about like what I wanted in the context of my mom's situation where she had to like work two jobs to keep things going and she had a different perspective on money for sure. I'm not going to trash her about it. She just has a different idea of what it's for.
01:01:02
Speaker
and um like i Again, I was like looking at stable jobs early, 10, 11 years old in the newspaper, just fit trying to figure out how i how I could not have some of that roller coaster.
01:01:17
Speaker
so any any longterm like I don't know, trauma is an overused word now, but any long-term effects from you. Like, did your mom share what she was going through? Or did you, you were like, until a certain age, you were like, you weren't really too worried about it. And then is there any, the, is that why you're, you're so conscious, you think? Because you lived through that?
01:01:37
Speaker
It could be it could be like you know and that to make a living as a woman in the 80s not as easy as it is now, let's say. Sorry. Thank you, DEI. ah um I know what that is. I hear that term like every day. Diversity, equity, inclusion, yeah. So she had two jobs and she had a long commute and she had a lot of things to pay for. And it turns out like my dad was not paying, I'll put this in the podcast dad, take this mofo, was not paying a fair child support.
01:02:14
Speaker
they must have negotiated outside the court system. And so it was hard. And I saw that and she talked about it times where we just like got to wait another week for groceries and stuff like that. Not, we're not like kids from the hood. Don't get me wrong. We have, we're very privileged in the context we lived, but you just didn't, you didn't get to be a kid in that environment and ignore money.
01:02:39
Speaker
Right. Like you probably did, which was a great thing. Like that's a great thing to give your kid. I'm not knocking you. I think it's a great thing to give your kid if if you can, and then to teach them the importance of managing it along the way. But I know actually we were pretty conscious of money. I actually think that like, I think my parents are probably maybe maybe a little softer than like they should have been. But like,
01:03:04
Speaker
the you Well, you saw how we lived. We had a nice house, but they weren't, weren't like flashy. Like, uh, so I think, yeah, there's a limit. Like you want, you kind of want your kids to enjoy life. Like your mom, I'm sure your mom probably either consciously or subconsciously managed as much as she could without trying to put it on you guys. But there's probably some stressful moments where she was like, ah, motherfuckers eating again. God damn, huh? Absolutely. Were you like, I really need to put on 30 pounds in one year.
01:03:33
Speaker
Bro, but like, yeah, I wonder about that though. what's the right What's the right amount to hand down to your kids of your real financial state? I know, but I remember my brother's behavior to this day when he got his first job. Like he got a job at Target and he would buy all this like expensive sugar cereal that we normally didn't have and just hoard it. It's like fucking fruity pebbles, boxes of it and just like pounding it.
01:04:01
Speaker
And like, you know, one else is allowed to touch it. Yeah. Yeah. And I had a paper route. I had a paper route. People are just wired different where I would save my money and get a whole, like a new $900 bike. Yeah. I always had a job. That's one thing about like all the way through college, all in high school, I was an umpire. I worked at, I was ah the worst busboy in history. Uh, my brother always had a job yeah like from even more than me.
01:04:29
Speaker
That was a normal thing for any family, like rich, poor, like kids like high school kids had jobs. I didn't have a single job back. Cause I i gave up my paper at eighth grade. I didn't have a single job in high school. I was like, I need to lift. Oh yeah. Yeah. but and yeah i will I don't know what i'm where I'm at on that. Like, did that make me a better person? I'm not real sure. Yeah. I mean, I worked i worked at a bank. I was a bank teller in college and I remember like falling asleep at the, like I would, I would be so hung over and still fucking stoned and just sitting there going like, but I put my tie on. And I remember you and your wife came to Boulder once. I think one of you were looking at grad school there and I walked out one morning, like I was going to work and you guys were like, what the fuck? I had like a button down shirt on and a tie.
01:05:22
Speaker
You guys are like, wow, pretty funny. But I don't know what the lessons like my brother, you know, he's a successful lawyer, like in college, he wasn't he wasn't pursuing, you know, people like pursuing internships, or like, a job related to your field, he was working at like, he worked at the sink on the hill, he worked at a bar, he did that shit. Yeah, yeah. It's fine. Right. So I don't know, this is not exactly what the original topic was about, but there's a whole thing about, in that lesson of what you can learn in school, the idea of working for your money and what that really costs you, like time-wise, stress, all that is, that's probably something that everyone can learn. i think I think you got some of that. i'm Now I'm talking myself into it, but I think you get some of that from working those silly high school jobs.
01:06:07
Speaker
all All that makes sense. All I'm saying with this whole segment is let's not leave it up to total luck and to hard life lessons, and many of which, depending upon your socioeconomic level, have life consequences. So there's a big difference between your brother racking up some unnecessary credit card debt in college versus a kid from a disadvantaged background. So how about helping folks on ah in totality in this country understand personal finance? Mic drop. Boom, boy. Mic drop. You're right. I don't know what the argument against it would be. i like If it doesn't help everyone, if if not everyone receives the message, they still have to go through their own shitty process. It's fine. But a few people are going to be like,
01:06:55
Speaker
Like, I mean, there's there's a couple of weird things that I remember in school, from school, that that still resonate with me. I have no idea why. But but like, there's like one or like one thing you picked out and you went, I remember when they said this, or or a person said something to you and you're like, like okay, here's one. Mike dropped nothing, bro. Our friend's older sister went and bought a house before us.
01:07:22
Speaker
and they went to get their mortgage and they came back and I remember my friend our friend said, you know, if you if you make 13 payments a year on a mortgage, on a 30 year fixed mortgage, you cut the loan by like 12 years or something like that. So if you just pull together and say 1300 once a year, just put an extra hundred bucks in savings a month, you'll you'll not 10 years, we'll say 10 years off your loan.
01:07:45
Speaker
It's like, that has always stuck with me. And guess what? I've never actually done it. Whoo. But, but that kind of shit is like, so so if if what you're saying, you do the class and somebody just pulls something like that out of it. I also remember a a marketing teacher in college was like, he he spent a week and had nothing to market talking about the value of starting an IRA in your early 20s and putting anything into it you can, whether it's like 20 bucks.
01:08:12
Speaker
And then just run it. He's like, it's easy. You'll be a millionaire by the time you're 60. It's easy. now And like, so yeah, we should do it. We should do the class mic drop. Yeah. i got Okay. Let me mic drop. Cause I had a professor. the second I will not talk after you. Okay. Okay. He, I had a professor say like, am I rich? No. Can I afford a Porsche? Yes.
01:08:39
Speaker
We can afford almost anything we want, but at what costs, and he was just trying to teach this concept of opportunity costs, at what cost to your life? Do I want to give up this job to go work a higher paying job that i I don't like? So just that type of trade-offs thinking is what we need more people to understand or to grapple with, to ponder, to philosophize about, done.
01:09:08
Speaker
God, this is so painful. But I'll let you have it, bro.