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Are We Going To Get Canceled For This? Toddler Bedtimes to School Choices with Rachael Shepard-Ohta @heysleepybaby
1.7k Plays6 months ago
"Are we going to get canceled for saying this?" May or may not have been said multiple times in this honest conversations around school, daycare, learning to read, behavior, sleep and parenthood.
In this episode of the Play On Words my guest expert Rachel Shepard-Ohta of The No One Told Us Podcast and Hey Sleepy Baby and I chat about the myriad challenges and decisions that come with parenting, from the toddler years to daycare and school choices like is it time for kindergarten or what are red and green flags to look for.
Our discussion also touches on sensitive topics such as deciding between private and public schooling, postpartum anxiety around sleep, knowing when to switch schools, and whether a play-based preschool adequately prepares children for kindergarten.
Follow Rachel: instagram.com/heysleepybaby
Follow Beth: instagram.com/bigcityreaders
More info and freebies: bigcityreaders.com/podcast
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Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Yay.
Introduction: Meet Rachel, the Sleep Consultant
00:00:01
Speaker
Okay. Welcome back to the Play On Words podcast. It's Ms. Beth, and I am so excited today. I have probably everyone's already favorite account on Instagram and other podcasts. Hey Sleepy Babies, Rachel, who is a mom of three, former teacher, sleep consultant, basically everything. I feel like you have so many things in your title. So welcome. How are you?
00:00:26
Speaker
So I'm good. Yeah, I do a lot of stuff so that I cannot go insane. It's just, it's my like toxic trait. I need to be doing a lot of things at all times. So yeah. Do you, do you know, are you familiar with the Enneagram?
Understanding Enneagram Types: Rachel's Perspective
00:00:41
Speaker
Yes. What are you? I'm a two wing three. I was going to say you sound like a three. Yeah. I'm a two like helper, but then have this like very overachieving side of me as well. Yeah. That's because like,
00:00:56
Speaker
threes usually do a lot of things. And I'm a seven and sevens love threes. So that... Ah, that makes sense. That makes sense. Yeah. Sevens are great. Okay. Right? Okay. Sevens are a little chaotic though, so we need the threes to kind of bring us back. That's true.
From Teaching to Sleep Consulting: Rachel's Journey
00:01:17
Speaker
Okay. When we talked... I was on your podcast and we talked last summer about... What did we talk about? Did we talk about reading?
00:01:25
Speaker
We talked about reading. We talked, yeah, you did a great episode for us for, um, for no one told us. We talked about mostly like reading and just kind of like how to develop that love of reading and how to not teach reading mostly. Yeah. Um, well, I was just going to say, what's crazy is that like you were a teacher and you're an Orton Gillingham trained reading teacher, which is like not that common. So you really have done a
00:01:53
Speaker
Yeah, I when I was I was actually it's such a waste because I only got to use the Orton-Gilliam training for the last like year and a half that I was teaching but I like begged my administrators to send me to get trained because I had just done all this like research on it and just wanted to bring it to our district so badly. And yeah, I don't know if they're still doing it or still training their teachers or not in it. I hope that they are but yeah, it's it's cool because
00:02:23
Speaker
now that I'm a mom of school age kids, I can kind of see like how things are going at school and hopefully be an advocate. Yes. Okay. So your kids are five. How old are they? He just turned six. Yeah. So six year old in kindergarten. And then I have a four year old who's in preschool and then the baby is 16 months. Oh my gosh.
00:02:46
Speaker
And okay, so I want to talk about your kindergarten transition because that is like such a hot topic. People love because it's just in, especially in the U S when there's so many options and people get really overwhelmed. Do I go public? Do I go private? Do, because I want to hold my child back is, is it like, it's such a privilege to hold your child back or to push them ahead early and all these decisions. And I know that you were in it.
00:03:13
Speaker
Um, so I know people would love to hear about that, but before we jump there, can you, um, give like a little bit of background of how you got to where you are right now? Yeah, totally. So yeah, like you mentioned, I was a teacher, I was a trained teacher right out of college. I double majored in elementary and special education. And then I went back to get a master's in special education. And I taught every single year that I taught at a public school.
00:03:40
Speaker
So I am, you know, I love public school teachers. I think that, you know, while there are so many things wrong with our public school system here, like nobody's in it for the money. Everybody's in it for the passion and for like the love of kids, which I.
00:03:56
Speaker
love. And yeah, so I taught in public schools, both in Connecticut, where I'm originally from, and then here in California for about nine years until I had my second baby. And then I had her in 2020. And so I was on maternity leave.
00:04:16
Speaker
COVID hit, and I was like, I am not going back to this. Yeah, and so we were talking before we started recording about the cost of childcare and stuff, and that was a huge factor for us. We live in San Francisco. Daycare was
00:04:31
Speaker
I think at the time it was about $2,000 per kid per month. And it was only going to go up from there. And so that was my entire take home paycheck. I was making $4,000 a month. So literally the entire thing would have gone to sending my toddler and my new baby to daycare.
00:04:51
Speaker
And I just really didn't want to do that, especially with the distance learning thing. It just seemed like kind of a nightmare. So I kind of decided to just shift my entire career into sleep
The Perks of Self-Employment vs Traditional Jobs
00:05:03
Speaker
consulting. It kind of all happened at the same time. It was like this perfect storm. I started researching sleep stuff because I was pregnant and really worried about sleep again. And that's how I ended up finding the certification. And originally, I thought, OK, this will be a great side hustle to help us pay for that daycare.
00:05:19
Speaker
And so I was essentially thinking like I was going to be working two jobs. I was going to be teaching and then I would, you know, try to take sleep consulting clients either, you know, like at night or on the weekends or during school breaks, things like that. Because I really like we really needed to supplement our income. So yeah, it eventually just morphed. And by the time I was kind of getting ready to like maybe resign, I decided to just go all in.
00:05:44
Speaker
And, yeah, glad I did. People ask me all the time if I miss teaching and it's, it's such a complicated answer because I do miss so many aspects of it, but probably won't be going back. So yeah, I don't think I I don't think I could I sometimes will like sub a lot of my friends have private preschools in Chicago and
00:06:08
Speaker
So I'll like sub, I won't like really, I'm not like on a sub list, but like, I'm like, Oh my gosh, in a pinch, call me. And I love that. But there's, I'm like, Oh my gosh, there's just so much going on. And I love it, but I'm like, Oh, there's so much I want to change or to help support teachers with. And it's like, if I'm in the classroom, I can't do that. It takes literally every single second of your life.
00:06:35
Speaker
Oh, exactly. Exactly. And I think also, once you've had a taste of what it's like to work for yourself, it's a hard pill to swallow to think about working for somebody else. It is, because even I bet you can relate to this, because especially after your kids go to bed, but I will be sitting on my computer watching Real Housewives at 11 PM and working. And I'm like, but I love this. I can do it at any time. Oh, yeah. I can go to breakfast with a friend tomorrow morning, because I'll work late at night.
00:07:04
Speaker
Totally. Yeah, it's just a whole different lifestyle. And I think some people really thrive with being told what to do and having a very set schedule every day. And I used to think I was that person, but it turns out I'm not. So yeah, it's been really nice, especially having kids. It's nice to have a job that's so flexible. I'm just so fortunate to be able to work what I want and as much as I want. Yeah, so it's been great. It ended up being a great decision to leave education, but it does
00:07:33
Speaker
also make me sad that I wasn't able to make it work financially. Well, and I would say like you kind of are still in education. You're just not in
The Role of a Sleep Educator: Educating Parents
00:07:42
Speaker
the classroom. You are right. Yeah. So much every day.
00:07:46
Speaker
Yeah, I know. Sometimes people will say, oh, what's your title? Are you a sleep consultant? And lately, the title that I've been kind of trying on and liking is Sleep Educator, because that's what I feel like I'm doing. I'm just educating parents about sleep. And yeah, teaching is still really what I'm doing and what I love to do. So it's just, yeah, like you said, in a different form. I do find it really hard to say what I do to people. Right, right.
00:08:16
Speaker
It's like, I'm like, what? I don't know. Do I say I'm a teacher? Just like keep it short. But then I'm like looking out so many parts of like my being an entrepreneur and owning a business. Right. I know. I know. We need to like workshop a title for you. We'll have to think about that. Yeah. Thank you. Also, when you said that, that you were like, I was only taking home 4,000, which I know the cost of living in San Francisco is so different. But I remember my first year of teaching, my
00:08:43
Speaker
monthly take home was $1,500. Oh, my God. Yes. Crazy. It's so it's so crazy. And yeah, like I when I first started working, I was a per diem para for autism student and my daily rate was like $50.
00:09:03
Speaker
Um, and yeah, that was, I mean, not that long ago. I'm not that old. So yeah, it definitely, I, I, I shouldn't have said only 4,000 cause some teachers are probably listening to this. Like fuck her. Do you swear on this podcast? Sorry.
00:09:18
Speaker
But yeah, if you saw cost of living in San Francisco, you'd understand. Really, I'm not super passionate about sleep itself. I mean, that sounds weird. But sleep and sleep science, I learned all of it. It was super interesting to learn. But I wouldn't say that's where my passion is. My passion is more for families to just not be so stressed.
00:09:41
Speaker
And that goes for like parents as well as children because I was a very stressed out new mom and most of my postpartum anxiety stemmed out of sleep and just feeling like I was constantly messing up sleep. It just was like a trigger for me. And I know a lot of other parents feel the same way, especially with their first baby and you don't have anything to compare it to. And there's just all you're doing is comparing your baby to babies online.
00:10:05
Speaker
It's just, it can be really toxic. So yeah, I am passionate about helping families just find more ease, I think, in that early stage of parenthood in particular. And I'm passionate about babies' well-being and mental health as well. So I try to just send a message and spread a message that is maybe not the dominant one in our culture right now, but that is,
00:10:30
Speaker
like babies really do need nurturing and connection and responsiveness. Um, just like kids do, right? Like we don't expect kids to learn in very stressful environments. Um, and babies are the same way. So people, we were talking about this actually in DMS the other day, how like people really do like content that is very like direct and simple.
00:10:55
Speaker
and watered down. So a lot of times, you'll see these really huge accounts that are giving just very basic advice. And people like that because that's easy, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. We like to give lots of explanation and lots of options. I know. Lots of nuance. I know. But yeah, it can be boring when you're talking about sleep science and attachment science and stuff like that. Parents are too tired for that. They just want to be told what to do sometimes, which I get. Yeah, that's true.
00:11:24
Speaker
Okay. The question I did get is like, people are like, I don't know how to get my toddler to bed without threatening them. Like that is like a lot of people have been saying, right? This one mom wrote, I don't, I don't want to be the, I don't want to sit outside the door. And I, you know, I said something like, have you like, she was like, she just wants to like lay with me. I was like, would you lay with her? And she's like, well, I don't want to get her in the habit of laying with me to be able to fall asleep. So I know what you're going to say about that, but, um, what, what are you, do you have any,
00:11:54
Speaker
Well, thoughts on that first and then like tips on how their bedtime structure and routine.
Toddler Bedtime Advice: Relaxation Strategies
00:11:59
Speaker
Totally, yeah. Let's talk about both. So first, I would argue that it's probably easier to just lay with her than it is to do what you're currently doing. If you had to choose to lay with your toddler and let them fall asleep while you just sit there and listen to an audio book in your headphones or something versus battling and threatening and bribing and listening to crying and all of that stuff every night,
00:12:25
Speaker
like they're going to get conditioned to either one. They're going to get used to either one. So if you're worried about creating a habit, which habit would you rather have? Because like it sounds like right now the habit is the bribing and the threatening and that's like all that super not fun stuff. So may as well just give her what she's asking for and laying with her. It's a lot more like convenient. It's a lot more
00:12:49
Speaker
I think that also that you said that on Instagram once, like listen to an audio book. And I think that that is like so, so like, probably you're like, I do this, so like everyone must think of this, but that is like truly a game changer to be like, I'm not just like frustrated, just be like, oh, this is my book time. Well, I'll let you- This is my me time. Yeah, save your favorite podcast. And it's actually, it's not super obvious. I didn't think of it with my first baby. I started,
00:13:16
Speaker
like reading my Kindle while I was putting him to bed, but I don't think I even got that until he was over a year because I think I got it for my birthday and his birthday and my birthday are very close together. So yeah, it took me a full year of being a mom to figure out, oh, I could actually like read. And then with my second, I started listening to Jessica Simpson's autobiography, which was 10 out of 10, by the way.
00:13:36
Speaker
Um, and it made me actually look forward to when she would wake up. Like I'd get excited when she would wake up at 2am for a feeding because it would mean I would get to listen to more of my book. It was like sick, but it worked. I mean, it's better than being miserable. You have to do something, right? So, and it's better than scrolling. It's better than scrolling on TikTok or Instagram where you don't know when
00:13:57
Speaker
like your nervous system is going to get super activated by something you see or something that's upsetting or, you know, like the blue light, all of that stuff. So, yeah, that's like a tangent, but definitely a game changer. But yeah, I mean.
00:14:09
Speaker
I don't know. We still lay with our kids. They're four and six and like they don't need it every night because we are so willing to give it to them. Like it's not something they have to fight us for. It's just an understood given. It's just part of the routine. Like, yeah, daddy's going to lay with you guys and I'm going to go put the baby to bed. And so they just know that they're going to get it. And when kids know that they can like count on that and and they can rest in that and they don't have to like fight for your
00:14:38
Speaker
attention or they don't have to, you know, they can take for granted that you're just going to be there, then you can be more flexible with it over time. Like now, if my husband or I have to go out at night and it's just one person doing the bedtime routine, that person can, you know, support the baby to sleep and the big kids are fine to fall asleep on their own and they get it. And, you know, it maybe takes a little while to get to that point. Like they're four and six now. I don't know if we would have been there two or three years ago, but
00:15:08
Speaker
Yeah, I would tell that mom that asked that question like What habit do you want like which one's better and there also are like not everybody can lay with their child right and For whatever reason and they also don't want to yell and scream. So what are some strategies for?
00:15:26
Speaker
Helping your child to feel safe and feel secure and be fine sleeping on their own So I have a better bedtime sky that goes into tons of detail and offers tons of strategies for helping your child fall asleep alone what I will say that helps that's super easy to implement and Anyone listening that has like an education mind knows this
00:15:46
Speaker
Visuals can be super, super helpful. Checklists can be super, super helpful. So you could co-create with your child like a little visual schedule that shows each step of the bedtime routine. It's the same every single night so that they know what to expect. They know that they're not going to get away with changing it up.
00:16:01
Speaker
Um, so that paired with like really loving limits and, and boundary setting, but in a kind way can be a really good place to start. Um, but yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, just lay with your kids. Like it's a very short period of time that they're going to need that. So it's a lot easier. Also have like a bedtime and morning routine editable thing that, um, Oh, perfect.
00:16:24
Speaker
Yeah, because people ask, we did, we made one for like school transitions that were tricky, which actually we're going to talk about something for daycare or daycare transitions. But that's my next question for you. But if you, I'll link it in the show notes, but so then it can just be like that they see a picture, even if they're just a toddler, okay, book, blanket, mom, you know, whatever it is, they can just say they know what's coming. So I love that.
00:16:49
Speaker
Um, okay. So prepping for daycare. Um, and then we'll get to the question that we started with, but prepping for daycare, I know that you're like, we all like Michelle, you, I, I like love to send people to you guys because I think we all like really go from like attachment, secure attachment first. Um, so I would love to talk about ways and we can also talk about like prepping for school.
00:17:15
Speaker
which can lead into our, you know, kindergarten discussion because I know we talked about this a little bit too, but what is your like first
Tips for Daycare and School Transitions
00:17:23
Speaker
step? Let's say it's a brand new baby going to daycare for the first time. What is your advice to prep that? Maybe it's a toddler. Let's say they're 18 months. What's your first advice? Well, I think finding a place that is a good fit for your family is number one.
00:17:43
Speaker
probably if I were going to be looking for childcare again, because I did have a son in daycare a few years ago. And I didn't know to ask about this. So I just handed him over one day to strangers and left, which, you know, I wouldn't necessarily do again, but I understand a lot of people have to.
00:18:01
Speaker
But one thing that I wish that I had asked and that I would encourage people to ask is, what is their policy for like a warm up period? So when we chose our preschool, so my kids both have fall birthdays, so they started at a preschool at two and a half.
00:18:17
Speaker
almost three actually, closer to three. But they have a very, like we said, like attachment focused warming up period. And this is very common in other countries. Like Germany has this type of model where parents come to school for the first week or two and they hang out. They are just kind of there as like the secure base for their child to kind of come check in if they need to. Their child is
00:18:43
Speaker
of course, you know, encouraged to explore the space and the materials and the toys and the teachers and all of that, but they have their parent, their safe person there. And that really just helps set that stage so well. And not every kid needs it like not every kid needs that full day for two weeks parent, they're super hands on, but some kids really do. And
00:19:07
Speaker
I know it's like the more popular advice at our society to say, Oh, no, like you got to just drop them off, do a quick goodbye, rip the band aid off. It's so much easier. They might cry for a while, but they'll stop. That just doesn't like. Yeah, it might be easier, but.
00:19:24
Speaker
just speaking from an attachment lens. It's not ideal, I'll say. So just ask. Just ask, hey, can we come in and shadow just for a few days before? Or can we start with just an hour a day at first, just as gradual as you can enter so that it's not a super traumatic experience right out of the gate is going to make things way easier in the long run because they're going to feel safe and secure with those people.
00:19:53
Speaker
If those things are not available and if the setting is not willing to work with you on that or come to some kind of compromise or agreement, then other ways that you can do this is called bridging the separation. So basically what you want to do is
00:20:09
Speaker
Show your child that you trust and like this other person that's going to be caring for them. Let them see you talking with this person, smiling or laughing with this person, even maybe touching them on the shoulder or something like that. Something just very subtle that won't make things weird or awkward. You don't need to hug them if you don't want to.
00:20:30
Speaker
Just those subtle body language cues that just show you're confident in this person, you like this person, they are a safe person to kind of enter our world. You can also get pictures of that person, of the daycare worker, the nanny, whoever it is, pictures of them to put in your house, talk about them while you're at your house. Anything that you can do to kind of help like match make is what it's called and then
00:20:55
Speaker
the bridging the separation pieces is focusing more on the reunification rather than the separation. So if your child's old enough to understand that then instead of, you know, focusing, I know it's so hard to say goodbye. I'm going to miss you too. I know, I know, I know. Focus more on when I pick you up, we're going to go to the park or I'm going to be back with a special snack or
00:21:16
Speaker
Tonight, at bedtime, we're gonna read this, this, and this book. Let's get those books ready in a stack right by your bed for when we get home. So talking about those things that are focused more on when you come back together can be really helpful instead of focusing on the separation. So bridging the separation and matchmaking are two really helpful strategies, and those are talked about a lot in the book, Rest, Play, Grow, which is by Deborah McNamara.
00:21:42
Speaker
who is a wonderful resource for people who have toddlers or preschoolers. Wait, I love this because in our kindergarten transition guide, we, two of the suggestions are just what you just said, talk about like, when I pick you up, we're going to go do this. And then one of the things is to start driving to the school, like, you know, start like a couple of times before the school year starts. Like, even if you can't go into the building, just like waving high school, like,
00:22:12
Speaker
I love that. And maybe even playing their favorite, like say they love Moana, like playing the Moana soundtrack. So they're already like, oh, this is such a fun, happy moment. Oh, and there's my school. Cool. Okay. And then we drive back home. I love that. It doesn't have to be huge. Okay. Let's talk about your kindergartner. Yeah. You, okay. What was, what were you feeling? Was it a, he's in kindergarten now? Yes, he's in kindergarten now. It was a year ago. You were like making the trying to decide everything on what you were going to do next. Can you tell us about that?
00:22:42
Speaker
Yeah, so here in California, or San Francisco specifically, I guess maybe, we have TK. So if you have a birthday at a certain point in the year, you automatically go into a TK year instead of kindergarten. And all three of my kids are fall and winter babies, so they all are going to do TK.
00:23:05
Speaker
Which is super fun for me to pay for three years instead of just two But it's actually great. So he is like just he's a very sensitive guy. He's like super super bright I was not worried about him entering kindergarten at all
00:23:21
Speaker
based on like academics and really what I was worried about was like the social-emotional piece because he is just he's very sensitive and he was he was never like that rough and tumble type of boy where he was like playing swords and like pushing and jumping all over each other like with the other groups of boys he always just wanted to like play with the girls and
00:23:46
Speaker
like pretend and do art and stuff like that. So I just was nervous about him being in like a big public school setting because our preschool is so small and tight knit and play based and just so wonderful. So I was definitely nervous. Um, but his TK year, which is actually at his preschool, so it was like the same people. Um, yeah, it was so, so amazing. So his TK year, he really kind of came out of his shell a little bit and started to just like take more risks and, um,
00:24:16
Speaker
I don't know, he just like matured. He just needed that extra time. And so by the time he did enter kindergarten, he really did seem ready. Like we had that summer done his first camp where he was just like dropped off at a camp and we left.
00:24:31
Speaker
No, but I was like, I had my stomach hurt the whole day. I was so nervous because like, I would be nervous doing that. I just couldn't wrap my brain around the fact that he was okay doing that. But he loved it. And so that really kind of grew his confidence. And then he went camping, he went on a camping trip right before the school year started. And that was something
00:24:51
Speaker
again, that was like new and really stretched him and gave him tons of confidence. Um, so yeah, he seemed ready. I picked him up from the first day of school. He said it was the best day of his life. Pick picked him up the second day. He said it was the best day of his life again. Like he just absolutely loved it. So it could not have gone.
00:25:09
Speaker
better. We did have a little bit of a setback right after the Christmas break where there was like some friend drama that was starting to kind of brew. And so that was tough. That was the first time we had experienced him like really not being super pumped to go to school.
00:25:26
Speaker
But it seemed to kind of resolved and now it's much better again and like he never fights us about going to school He's always happy when we pick him up. So yeah, it's been it's been so great, but we still do have those moments of like You know, he'll say something to us about Some something some kids said at school or like a rule at school or we'll get homework You know not homework, but we'll get like worksheets in his backpack that are just like sight word worksheets
00:25:56
Speaker
I like that you like how you just said that. Like no shade to the teachers. But yeah, like there have definitely been things that we've kind of been like,
00:26:08
Speaker
about. The way you just said it was like, as if it's going to be bleeped out later. Do you, do you, is that a curse word here, sight words? Yeah, it is. Yeah, that's fine. I think, or is this a safe place? Yeah, this is a safe place, but I think only because like people don't, because I share a lot about like how to actually teach sight words, because it's like, we're not pretending those words don't exist.
00:26:32
Speaker
because people are like, oh no, we got sight words. It's like, it's fine if you got sight words, if they're also teaching them the right way, not to just memorize them. So then people are like, wait, I thought sight words were bad, but then you just said, this is how you teach a sight word. I'm like, okay, no. This is what I'm talking about. This is the thing about social media. It's like people will need simple, like they need you to say sight words are good or sight words are bad. They don't want any nuance or like anything more complicated than that. Yeah.
00:26:56
Speaker
And if I go in then and say, okay, we don't want to memorize words because that's not properly storing it in our brain. We teach them to memorize the irregular part. And people are like, well, that's the same thing as memorizing. It's like, well, actually, if you read on, be like, no, tell me in three seconds, only yes or no, like no explanations, please.
00:27:23
Speaker
Oh my god. It's exhausting. So it's not, that was a sight word caveat for anyone who's listening. Yes, exactly. Oh no. So there's a couple of things. I worked on that. And actually, he's fully reading. It's winter. He's only been in school since August. So I don't know how many months he's at. That's a lot of math. But he's fully reading. He's subtracting
00:27:49
Speaker
three-digit, two-digit numbers. And like I said, he's just a very bright kid. I was never worried about academics with him. But clearly the teacher is doing a great job. He's learning a lot. He's happy. So we're happy.
Choosing Between Public and Private Schools
00:28:02
Speaker
But like you said, we did definitely struggle with the private versus public decision. And we still worry that we didn't make the right call sometimes. You do? Why?
00:28:14
Speaker
I don't know. I mean, both my husband and I went to private schools as kids, but I only ever taught in public school. And I think that just gave me this lens of like, does it really matter? Like, does it really matter
00:28:30
Speaker
for a kid like him who is going to grow up with educated parents. Both of us have master's degrees. He's going to grow up with tons of privilege. He's a white kid. There are so many things that already set him ahead of his peers that we were kind of like, private school is not going to make a difference for him. Unless it's going to expose him to people that are going to someday
00:28:56
Speaker
create a business with him or something like that, but that could also happen from public school. And the great thing about his public school right now that we absolutely love is that it's so diverse. There are so many different cultures in his class and races in his class that it really is so wonderful. And so in that way, we definitely feel like it's the right spot to be for right now, at least. I love that you just said for right now.
00:29:25
Speaker
I anytime I do like any like school consulting with parents it's like okay yes we obviously don't want to be moving kids all the time but nothing like we're not trees you know you could like you could get a job in another state and you've spent like after two years trying to decide okay well I want them to go here for high school so we have to put them in preschool here like and you could have like a family issue where you need to move closer to family there's so many variables
00:29:51
Speaker
So I know it's like a little nuance to be like, can you just think about the next two years and like what's working right now? Totally. And I think like for us, we definitely found ourselves getting into that trap of like, okay, but will this school be the right school for our third daughter, Lenny? And like, she's not going to be going to kindergarten for five more years. And it's like, well, maybe, maybe not, but like who knows where we're going to be in five years. And like you said, you don't want to move your kid every year or every two years if you can help it.
00:30:17
Speaker
But I think there also is this like stigma or fear about, Oh my God, like my kid has to go to kindergarten with the same kids he's going to be with through 12th grade or else they're never going to have any friends or they're going to be like the new kid or they're going to be teased or they're going to be traumatized. And that just is not, is not the case. Well, and you know what, I was just talking to a mom, which this made me feel so old. I saw this mom.
00:30:41
Speaker
at the gym and I was like, how are your kids? Like, are they in college? And she was like, yeah, the oldest is about to go to college. And I was like, no, I was joking. Like, I was like, they were at the school that I worked at. And I was like, I am so young. I'm, I'm so young. How could they be going to college? I was in college last year. Exactly. I just graduated. My mom, my mom saw this, this woman.
00:31:07
Speaker
She was out to dinner and she saw this woman that I used to babysit for. When I was like literally 12, I started babysitting for this woman and she had four kids and my mom was telling me about how they all are and I was kind of expecting her to give me updates about them being like in high school, maybe college. She's like, oh yeah, so, no, so-and-so is like engaged. And I was like, wait, what? Like, no, that can't be true. Some of the kids that babysat have kids. That can't be true. I don't understand. That can't be true.
00:31:34
Speaker
Wait, have you seen that trend on TikTok? It makes me laugh so much reading the comments where people are like, how old do I look? Oh, God, it's such a horrible question to ask. Don't ask that question. But there is this one woman and she's like, somebody told me I look like I'm 36. And I'm 28. And somebody wrote in the comments, I'm going to hold your hand when I say this.
00:31:56
Speaker
respectfully 53. Somebody was like, I'm 55. I thought we were the same age. Oh my God. No, you have to send it to me if you find it. That is so savage. People on TikTok are unhinged. Yeah, but I can't, I can't stop, but I can't stop reading the comment. I literally was crying, laughing at the comments the other day. I'm going to hold your hand when I say this baby. Get ready.
00:32:23
Speaker
Oh, but all that to say is that the woman that I ran to the gym, I was like, are you still at the school that like I had known her from? She said no, her youngest had to switch in middle school because it was a small, really small private school. And just there was that she wanted small class sizes, but it was too small. And so then there's like, you know, world drama happening. And she's like, it's just not a fit for her.
00:32:48
Speaker
But the mom said it, I thought it was so empowering. I said to her, I was like, I just admire so much that you just advocate for your own kids. Because I think they're also then people are like, well, our friends are going to this preschool or
00:33:01
Speaker
You know, it becomes like this thing. Like what if they think that we go to this preschool and it's not a good fit for us. And then we go to a different school for kindergarten and like, everyone's going to be mad at us. I'm like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You have to do what's best for your kids. So all that to say is she like that mom went there for so long, but then her, you know, she transitioned in middle school to a brand new school because it just wasn't fitting after 12 years. So it really is. Well, and I love, I love that that like, even when you're,
00:33:31
Speaker
in one family. Kids are different. Siblings are going to be different. And what one kid needs, their brother or sister might need something totally different. So yeah, I love that. That's great on her. And then I have a really serious question. OK. You didn't get nervous by that? No, I love it. Oh, well.
00:33:51
Speaker
Okay, did you feel, I know a lot of people that go to a play-based preschool feel like, oh shoot, did I not prepare my child for kindergarten in the right way? Did you feel stressed about
The Importance of Play in Preschool
00:34:01
Speaker
that? Or what on the other side light can you shed for those people? Yeah, I didn't.
00:34:08
Speaker
But I think that's because I have the privilege of understanding child brain development, which most parents don't do. So they do really worry that like not doing circle time and letters and numbers in a three-year-old class. What you have to understand is that like kids that are that little have to play and that's how they learn.
00:34:27
Speaker
Not only is it how they learn, but it's how they learn how to emotionally regulate themselves, which they will need in kindergarten to be able to sit and to be able to follow directions and all of that stuff. So play serves so many purposes and has so many different roles that are so important. So in my opinion, in preschool, there is absolutely nothing more important than play. Actually, I would see it as a major red flag if there were a lot of academics happening in a preschool.
00:34:54
Speaker
Wait, this is so good. I want to ask you about this. Yeah. Okay, finish your mat and then I'll come back to this. No, that was pretty much my thought. Okay, because I was talking about this with someone the other day and they were like, I was like, you know, it's so different for every parent and for every family about like what school and what, because they're like, just tell me the things that you would want in a school. And I'm like, no.
00:35:14
Speaker
I would probably be a nightmare. No, not really because I'm like play-based, responsive parenting, responsive teaching about behavior, alignment throughout the whole school, like that it's not like this preschool teacher is teaching this way and she's trained in this way and the kindergarten teacher does a different type of consequences and science of reading instruction for every single teacher. Like those are like my big
00:35:40
Speaker
big ones. I guess that's not that crazy. That's so crazy. That should be standard, honestly. Like, that's not wild. Right? So what, okay, what would your red flags be? I was like, not red flags, but a no from me is if it's a preschool, it's like, well, they go to every special. They go to music, they go to Spanish, they go to this. And I think a lot of people are like, that's the best. We want that. But to me, I'm like, no. What are your thoughts?
00:36:11
Speaker
I agree. I mean, I think, you know, if they're taking the preschoolers to the library once a week or something like that, or like they have a music teacher come in and my kids come in and they love it. Yeah. Come into the classroom. They love that. But like, they really don't need much beyond that. If they're
00:36:27
Speaker
in a language program, great, but I would love to see as much as possible integrated into their classroom and into their day rather than compartmentalized in that way. They don't need to be going to a million different classes. This isn't high school. So I really want to see them making good relationships with their teachers, playing, and really that's it. I don't want to see much else happening in preschool.
00:36:53
Speaker
Yeah, agree. I don't like I'm like, I was on a tour and they're like, Oh, and this is the room. This this question that I asked, which is like, probably the school tour was like, Oh, no, why'd you ask that? But I said, Are your specialist teachers if they do, if the preschoolers are going, are the specialist teachers like
00:37:11
Speaker
trained teachers or are they like an expert in their field because oftentimes like a music teacher will be a musician, art teacher will be an artist and they might be an amazing human but that doesn't really say that they have a lot of child development practice and like best practices for dealing with
00:37:28
Speaker
23 year olds in their classroom. And so, and they said it was like that they're in their field. And then the parent I was on the tour with was like, what does that mean? And I was like, well, I'm just like wondering how this like artist, bless their heart is gonna like, they have classroom management techniques.
00:37:45
Speaker
Right. Yeah, which is like, I'm like, art should be all day in in the classroom and preschool. Like they don't need to go. Exactly. They don't need an art class. Like art materials are just out all the time, always available. Maybe not 100% of the time. Maybe you put different things out at different times of day, of course, and that's fine. But
00:38:03
Speaker
Yeah, like all of those things really should just be incorporated during the day and that's why I say like when I see a ton of quote unquote academics at that age, it is a bit of a red flag for me because those things should just be woven throughout the day, like they're learning how to count when they're playing with loose parts, they're learning how to
00:38:20
Speaker
you know, hold a pencil by doing other sensory tasks, working with Plato, building up their hand muscles, things like that. Like they don't need to be doing things that second graders are doing just on like a miniature scale because they're in two completely different playing fields developmentally. Do you think that we're going to get canceled for this? I hope not because our way is actually so much easier. Like it's so much more simple. It's so much more simple to just let the kids play.
00:38:50
Speaker
learn you know train your teachers on social emotional development so that they can support things like turn taking and speaking up for yourself for when you're feeling an emotion or you know advocating for yourself like all those different things that we want them to be able to learn
00:39:06
Speaker
And that's it. Provide the materials and just let them go. They don't need you to micromanage their entire day at that age. And even beyond. I would love to see a kindergarten class that looked like that, to be honest. Oh, same. Oh, my gosh. A play-based kindergarten is my dream.
00:39:24
Speaker
I know, I know. Even my son sometimes, as much as he loves school, he does say sometimes like he misses TK. And I think, you know, part of that is just that he had incredible teachers, but also he misses like being able to get up when he wants to get up and like not having to ask to go. Yeah, like not having to ask to go to the bathroom or ask to go get a drink of water or, you know, just
00:39:50
Speaker
I don't know. It's hard because his class was half the size in TK also that it is now. So I understand why teachers need these systems and for things to be a little more tight and structured. But I don't know. I just wish that we had the supports for teachers to be able to provide that type of an environment, I guess.
00:40:09
Speaker
Me too. Yeah, maybe we can. Maybe we can do this. Every time I have someone on my podcast, I'm like, actually, I think this is the army. I know exactly who we're going to do this with. No, but that's how it is because the teacher, the schools are run really by the parent community, right?
00:40:30
Speaker
us getting these types of messages out to the parents and that's why like what you said at the beginning where you're like I wasn't making an impact in the classroom because that was so few kids and like my impact now can be so much greater and that's so true because you're arming all of these parents that are listening with the language, the tools, the knowledge, and the confidence to advocate and that's what's going to make lasting change for sure.
00:40:55
Speaker
I love it. Okay, what is your biggest green flag that you would see in a school, a daycare?
Rachel's Ideal Preschool Environment
00:41:02
Speaker
What are you like, oh my gosh, this is my kind of place. What's your one, if you have to pick one thing? Just one, that's really hard. You can pick two. I think, okay, well wait, what are we talking? Are we talking preschool, daycare, or like an elementary school? Let's go preschool.
00:41:22
Speaker
Okay, preschool, well, it's kind of like what I said, I would, I would want to see evidence of lots of play. And yeah, so my biggest green flag, I think would be to walk in and to see kids engaged in all different activities at the same time. So maybe there are some over at a table that are doing stuff with Play-Doh.
00:41:44
Speaker
Maybe there are a few cuddled up with a teacher reading a book. Maybe there are some in the dress-up station. I just would want to see like a variety of things happening instead of whole class instruction for very long.
00:41:59
Speaker
Okay, wait, now I want to know what it would be for elementary school. Okay, elementary school, I mean, I wish that I could say play. I wish I could say like, Oh, I would love to walk into a kindergarten and see it look just like, you know, a play based type of setting, but
00:42:15
Speaker
I'm trying to think like, because we did this whole tour thing. So San Francisco is very unique because you don't just go to your neighborhood school. So it's a lottery system, which is changing. But for the last several years, it's been a lottery system. So you have to go tour all of the public schools that you might be interested in. It could be on the other side of the city.
00:42:34
Speaker
It could be next door. You get to choose, basically. And you submit your top choices. Some people have literally like a ranking of 16 or 20 choices. And then the city just kind of does, I don't even know how they do it, to be honest, because it must be such chaos. But they do this. Yeah, exactly. Somebody that like hates their life, I'm sure. They have to like do their best to give you your top choice. Right. So
00:43:01
Speaker
So anyway, so that forced us to have to tour all of these schools. So we were looking at, I think we probably went on like 10 ish kindergarten tour tours before we chose. And so I would say the things that I looked for, what would be the biggest green flag that I looked for? I think, um,
00:43:26
Speaker
I would say I looked for what was on the walls the most. So what was the teacher displaying on the walls and like hanging up? So to me, that just shows a lot about what that teacher and what that school values. So are they sharing artwork? Are they sharing, you know, is the artwork all exactly the same? I remember going to this one school and seeing
00:43:50
Speaker
just a whole collage of the kids' projects. I think it was a kinder first grade classroom probably, but they all looked exactly the same and they all looked perfect. And I was like, there's no way these kids made those. Like, there's no way. And so like, to me, that just kind of, you know, shared a little piece about what
00:44:08
Speaker
type of environment that might be. Is it like a perfectionist type of environment or are kids allowed to be a little bit more free? You know, the type of writing that was on the walls I would look at. Like inventive spelling. Yes. Like I was looking for, I was actually going to send this to you today because my son just wrote the cutest book and I was going to put it on my stories and be like, I'm going to like send somebody a coffee if they can tell me what this says because none of the words were spelled correctly.
00:44:36
Speaker
But I could read them all phonetically. And it was so cute. So yeah, so I would just look at stuff on the walls. And that will kind of give you a good indication of what the values of that of that setting are. Oh, I love it. Okay. And I could talk to you all day, but this is my last pressing question.
Unpopular Opinion: Disconnection with 'Fourth Wing'
00:44:53
Speaker
And we I hope that I hope that I don't get canceled for asking this or for bringing this up. But
00:45:00
Speaker
You didn't like fourth wing? Oh my god, okay. This is such a non-popular opinion of mine because saying I'm on TikTok and I'm on like book talk and everyone has been talking about the fourth wing series and the aquatar. I could not hate anything more.
00:45:17
Speaker
I cannot get into it. The dragons, the fairies, the weird names, the castles. I just can't. And I loved Harry Potter and stuff as a kid, so I thought maybe I could get into it, but I cannot. And that's my truth.
00:45:33
Speaker
And that is my truth. I have to stand in my truth. You do have to stand in your truth. When I said that on Instagram the other day, a lot of other people privately admitted to this. Nobody wants to go down with this. Really? Yeah. Okay. I'm glad I'm not the only one because I was like, what am I missing? Am I stupid? How am I not getting this? I couldn't do it.
00:45:52
Speaker
that is what I've been working on for six months and I'm like I just can't do this. Well and it was preventing me from reading any other books because I was like I can't start a new book until I finish this one and I hate that so finally I had to just abandon it and it's just not gonna ever get finished and that's okay. It's not and you know what somebody did message me and say this they said a wise woman once said
00:46:12
Speaker
you don't have to finish the book." And it was actually me that said that to a woman on it. But I always say, when we're talking about reading to your toddler, you don't have to finish the book. Go slow, let them pick the pages. Or if your big kid doesn't like the book, they don't have to finish it. I love that. So I'm like, okay, why am I trying to finish this book? I don't like this book. No, freedom. Freedom to not finish. I love that. So sorry to the author.
00:46:38
Speaker
I know. I'm glad I'm not alone. It's not for us. It's for other people. And I'm sure the author is doing fine. Like, million, million, million there by now, I'm sure. You know what? That is so true. I don't know why I was worried about them. She's fine. She's fine. I love it. Oh, my gosh. Well, thank you so much for your time and for being here. You are such a fountain of knowledge and youth. Oh, as are you. As are you.
00:47:06
Speaker
I'm basically Gen Z. You are too. You pretty much are. You pretty much are. I strive to be, is what I'll say. No, I think you are. I think that you're probably the coolest person I follow on Instagram. Oh my God, really? Yeah. That's an honor. And back at you, for sure. Especially, I feel like you're even cooler just because of your blue nail polish.
00:47:32
Speaker
I'm like, I've been looking at your nails this whole time. And I'm like, God damn it. I need to go get a manicure and get blue nails. I just did this because my sister sent me that she was like, this color, I'm thinking about getting it next time. And you have a sister, you know? I'm like, OK, I'll talk to you. I'm obsessed. Thank you so much for having me. This was so fun. Yeah, I'll talk to you soon. OK.