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Support for Autism with Guest Andrea Pollack {Episode 235}
397 Plays1 year ago
In this episode, Bonnie and Audrey discuss autism with guest Andrea Pollack of Autism Parent Solutions. They discuss emotional support for parents of children with autism, finding the right kind of support, homeschool and other education options for children with autism, and so much more.
Mentioned in this episode:
Episode 199: Sensory Processing Disorder
About Outnumbered the Podcast:
Two moms, parenting a combined total of 19 kids and finding joy in the chaos.
Join Audrey and Bonnie as they share real parenting tips for real people through humor, advice and compassion.
Whether it's tackling how to teach kids to work or discussing where to turn when you're all out of patience, these two experienced moms are here to offer authentic tips for raising children joyfully.
Join us:
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Transcript
Introduction to Hosts and Podcast
00:00:06
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Outnumbered the Podcast. I'm Audrey. And I'm Bonnie. We are experienced moms to a combined total of 19 children. In our weekly episodes, we explore relatable topics using our perspectives of humor and chaos. Tune in for advice and encouragement to gain more joy in your parenting journey.
Expert Introduction: Andrea on Autism Parenting
00:00:32
Speaker
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Outnumbered. We are thrilled today to have an amazing guest with us. She is a consummate professional and educator, and we are so excited to pick her brain specifically about autism and those neurodivergent kids who require a little bit of extra time and attention and might have us shaking our heads wondering how to parent even after we think we know how, right? So welcome to Andrea. Thank you so much. I appreciate being here.
00:00:57
Speaker
Yeah. I'm going to go ahead and let Audrey have you introduce yourself, but we are really excited to have you and especially to have your expertise on something that we are not experts at, but we know so many of our listeners have those special kids that need a little bit of extra care and attention and are really excited to listen to your expertise about
Andrea's Journey and Career Shift
00:01:15
Speaker
that. Thank you so much. I'm excited to be here too.
00:01:19
Speaker
Yeah, we can't wait to pick your brain about all things autism, but we want you to start off by telling us a little bit about your family and about how you came in contact with autism. Okay, sure. I have a son, he's now 24, and he was diagnosed at two, so I've been at this a long time.
00:01:38
Speaker
And at the time, I was a lawyer. I was a lawyer for 19 years. And when he was about four, I put him into a school. And it was a great school. It just wasn't good for him. So I left. I took him out of school and decided to homeschool him, which I did for eight years. And after eight years, he was ready to go back into a school setting.
Founding Autism Parent Solutions
00:02:01
Speaker
And I knew that I had learned so much that I wanted to share with other parents that taking it
00:02:06
Speaker
back into law would be such a shame such a loss so i went back and earned my master's in education and started this this organization to help other parents okay that is really really awesome that you took what you had learned and shared it with other parents because that's
00:02:23
Speaker
That's basically what Bonnie and I are doing with this podcast is taking all our experience from having nine and 10 children and just sharing it with the world. Here's what we did. Don't do that. Do something different. Exactly. I was definitely thinking about trying to spare parents a lot of trial and error. Yeah. Tell us about your company, Autism Parent Solutions. It's a parent education and coaching company.
00:02:52
Speaker
and I run a program for parents that's 12 weeks long and parents come in and there's educational materials but we also meet twice a week and parents can ask any questions at all and they learn from each other, they learn from me, they bond with other parents which is a really nice experience because
00:03:12
Speaker
having an autistic child can be quite lonely.
Parenting Advice and Emotional Management
00:03:15
Speaker
And, you know, we see the transformation happen before our eyes, which is so beautiful. They go from feeling like they have no idea what to do to I got this.
00:03:26
Speaker
Oh, that's beautiful. I love that. We've talked about this just briefly on our podcast before because we have very little experience with autism and other diagnoses. I actually have one child who has some developmental delays. And so I do understand a little bit of that, what have I done wrong? And where do I go from here? And I feel so alone and not fully understanding
00:03:49
Speaker
the skills and abilities I do have to help my child and where to go for more help when I feel lacking, right? So I love that you're putting this out into the world. It does seem to us that autism and these other developmental disabilities seem to be more and more common. And so we want to ask you, what would you say to a parent who has a new diagnosis that seems overwhelming and terrifying and frightening? Where do they start? Well, actually,
00:04:15
Speaker
The answer I'm going to give is not directly about where they start looking. What I would say for starters is your child is still the same child they were yesterday, right? Sometimes parents forget that it becomes, you know, they become, you know, mysterious creatures.
00:04:30
Speaker
It's the same child, so remember that that's so important. And then I would say inform yourself, but trust your instincts. So in terms of how to inform yourself, there are tons of materials.
00:04:46
Speaker
you know, information is only a part of the situation, right? It's how to use that information that's so hard, you know, so hard to learn from books and other materials. But you have to start somewhere, I would start there. But also don't forget to trust your gut, because, you know, we sometimes want to rely on experts and others to tell us what to do. But we know our children best.
00:05:12
Speaker
So many great tips. I love that you said remember that it's still your child because I think a diagnosis is kind
Dealing with Overwhelm and Empowerment
00:05:18
Speaker
of this double-edged sword like on the one side It's like oh, I know what's going on now. I have some information I have kind of some keys now at least a place to start like I'm saying and on the other hand. It's like oh my gosh like I I have seen worst-case scenario of this diagnosis I have seen you know all of a sudden it feels very overwhelming and so I love that reminder that it's still your child and you Still know best you really do and that's a really empowering thought. Thank you
00:05:44
Speaker
One thing that I have in my background is when I was going for my elementary education degree,
00:05:51
Speaker
I also was minoring in special education and spent a lot of time in special ed classrooms. And one of the most heartbreaking things was to see a student that was there before school care and all day and after school care and summer school and all the time. And it was when you spoke to their parents or tried to
00:06:16
Speaker
I did some home visits and things. And sometimes you would see parents that had just kind of detached, like it was too much for them. They were overwhelmed and they turned their child over to the school system and they didn't really want anything else to do. And it was like so heartbreaking to see that. And so like, it's very touching to me to hear you say, it's still your child. You're still the expert because to not give up that autonomy authority
00:06:44
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it is such an important point. And, you know, when parents do that, they're really, you know, believing they're doing the best for their child. I believe that. But it's a reflection of how disempowered they feel. And so I think trying to empower parents from the outset is so important.
00:07:06
Speaker
Yeah, that is really good. So talk to us about some of the emotions you experienced during this time as a mom, like grief, anger, some of the things that other parents might be experiencing and unexpectedly, like they didn't think they would be going through these kind of emotions. Sure. I would say for me, the grief thing wasn't a big thing, although I know that is a common feeling, but it was way more fear for me.
00:07:33
Speaker
I was so afraid of what would happen, how it would all unfold. And then I think the underlying fear was that I wouldn't be good enough and, oh god, I'm getting emotional thinking about it, and that I wouldn't do it right. So the fear was really powerful. And then I would say frustration was another piece because I felt like I was working so hard and doing all the right things and trying so hard and I wasn't getting anywhere.
00:08:01
Speaker
You know, in the early days, it was very, very frustrating until I learned how to work myself through that. Yeah, I'm sure that's so helpful for other parents to hear that as well. I feel similarly, I feel like there wasn't a lot of grief for me because I knew my daughter was always different from the very beginning.
00:08:18
Speaker
But yes, there's still fear because she's still young. And at home with me, there's still fear about what her life is going to look like as an adult and how she's going to be treated and how she's going to embrace life on her own. There's a lot of unknown there. And I think it's also so wonderful to remember that we just have to deal with one day at a time. We can really get overwhelmed by thinking about, oh my gosh, is she ever going to leave home? Or is this ever going to happen? Or are they going to struggle with this?
00:08:44
Speaker
like sufficient
Parenting Metaphors and Support Needs
00:08:46
Speaker
under the day. Like today we're going to we're going to work on math. That's the struggle today. I'm not going to worry about whether she can live on her own. That's way too much stress right now. Exactly. And one of the things that I one of the images I try to present for parents is, you know, it's like putting a destination that's really far away into your GPS. You don't have to know all the turns to get there. You just know the first view and then trust that as you start to make your way, the next few will make sense also.
00:09:15
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I love that. Okay, so my next question is, what do you see? You deal with a lot of parents in this situation. So what do you see as the biggest challenge for these parents that are just stepping into this world of autism or other delays? I think the biggest challenge is finding the right support because a lot of the support that is offered, I have found is not geared toward parenting.
00:09:38
Speaker
It's given by therapists, which is great. I don't want to undermine the value of that. But it's not parenting. So sometimes I have parents who come to me and their children are matching numbers or matching baby animals and adult animals. And then they can't take a bath and they can't eat a meal with the family. So there is a real shortage, in my view, of parenting advice.
00:10:04
Speaker
I also see that parenting advice and emotional support are rarely, I would say, almost never combined. And it's so important to combine those because learning the strategy, if you have something going on emotionally beneath it that's keeping you from executing that strategy, the strategy is never going to be enough.
00:10:27
Speaker
and getting emotional support, well, that's important. And again, I don't want to knock that. But if you're not addressing the underlying problem, which is helping your child, the emotional support, you're going to need ongoing emotional support because it's so blending the two I think is so important, but it's not really very prevalent out there.
00:10:47
Speaker
Yeah, I would definitely agree with that too. So are you saying that your company does both of those things that you're able to give support in a parenting way and then also say, oh, by the way, we've got your back emotionally here. We understand what you're
12-Week Program Overview
00:10:59
Speaker
going through. Well, exactly, because your emotions drive your actions. So if you tell a parent, for example, yelling is not effective. They know that. But if there's a belief or an emotion that's driving that yelling, like frustration or anger,
00:11:16
Speaker
or a belief that their child is being disobedient on purpose, then it's going to be very hard to execute that. So what we do instead is we dig into what's driving it and help them shift the underlying belief.
00:11:30
Speaker
so that they can see their child is not meeting your expectations. Let's look at it that way. Your child is missing some skills in the moment. That's disabling them from meeting your expectations. They're not doing it on purpose. And when you help them shift that belief, they can look at this challenging situations with more compassion, with an eye toward what support can I offer my child instead of what discipline.
00:11:56
Speaker
And that's an example of how they're really married together, the emotion piece and the strategic piece. OK, that's really, really good information because often parents spend so much time
00:12:11
Speaker
with special needs children helping their children that there's not much left for them. Not much time to, you know, like work on your own thoughts or your own self-care is something that we talk about on this podcast all the time because as moms of nine and 10 kids, we know how hard it is to make time for yourself and get that in. And we really advocate for that for moms as well. Yeah. Well, I imagine it's pretty much the same for a special needs child. Absolutely. And there are so many
00:12:42
Speaker
emotions brewing beneath the surface and we don't share them. Sometimes those emotions then compound, right? So you feel like your child is being obnoxious and then you feel guilt and shame for feeling that way. And then all of that, you know, dictates the way you parent. So, you know, you really need to dig into both because it helps you be the best version of yourself for your children.
00:13:08
Speaker
Yeah, that's really beautiful. So thinking back to your early years, we're kind of focusing on that because we know that there's parents out here who are just receiving these diagnosis. So what was your biggest strength during those early years of helping your son? Was it like professionals or community or self-care? What resources were there that helped you the most, strengthened you the most?
00:13:33
Speaker
Well, in terms of resources, they were pretty widespread. Again, we're talking, you know, over 20 years ago and there was so much less and the internet wasn't such a thing. And, you know, so there was a lot of, um, you know, scraping for information, which is interesting because now what I find is the information is so overwhelming. It's the opposite end of that spectrum for parents. They need help curating some good information. But in terms of what was my biggest strength, I would say it was persistence.
00:14:03
Speaker
I was not gonna give up. I would never give up. I would do whatever it took for as long as it took. And on days that were hard, I had to go back to that mantra. I'm gonna do whatever it takes for as long as it takes. Because some days I really didn't want to. But then I reminded myself, oh yeah, the me who I want to be will never give up. So that was a really strong strength. And then I also had two very good friends.
00:14:33
Speaker
who were going through something similar, who I met at a program we all attended. And they lived in different states and different time zones, but we talked all the time. And it is so isolating, but what I found is I didn't need a huge group of friends going through it, just one or two, with whom you could share your truth, share good days, bad days, questions, all of those things. That was really helpful.
00:15:01
Speaker
Okay, I love that. I love what you're saying about just one or two close friends. Sometimes we like to think that in order to have the self care we need, we need all the support and all these groups when really, especially when it comes to a child who's going to be different than any other child out there, you just need one or two fellow parents that can understand what you're
00:15:20
Speaker
something like what you're going through. And everyone's kid is going to be different, but I love that, finding someone that can connect with you. And I've found personally, too, when I share some of the struggles that my daughter has with people who can't relate, it feels like there's some judgment there. Even though I know they're not trying to be that way, it's just very difficult to understand a child that acts in a certain way. You know, everybody's got their own theories of, well, if you just did this,
00:15:46
Speaker
They wouldn't do that. It's so funny you're saying that. I once said to my husband, if you ever find yourself about to say just, just don't. Like that was right on its face. So insulting. You should just.
00:16:02
Speaker
Trust me, I've tried it. Yeah, I love that tip. Just to acknowledge that you are the expert and you just need one or two friends to understand a little bit. And if it is stressful to share with other people, then maybe don't. And I've learned that myself as well. It's my husband and I that understand her the best and that have the most compassion and mercy for what she's going through. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:16:27
Speaker
This process that I help parents with is really building confidence because the more confidence you build from the inside out, the less those judgments matter to you because you just know you're so confident that you know what's going on. It doesn't mean you're right every time. It doesn't mean things don't go wrong or go sideways. Of course they do. But, you know, you know, you've got this. You know that, you know, that's their shortcoming, not yours.
00:16:53
Speaker
Yeah. Audrey and I talk about this a lot as we feel like it's something you gain as a more experienced mom as the years go on. In those early years, you really want outside validation. You really want to know you're doing things right. But in the end, there is no right and wrong way. It's just the best for your family. And yeah, I love that. Getting to that confidence sooner rather than later is going to serve you. Right. Love it.
00:17:15
Speaker
Okay. So let's shift gears here for a second and talk about homeschooling your son. You mentioned that he was going to a really great school, but it just wasn't a great fit. We are homeschoolers. We love it. It's been a great choice for both of our families, but tell us how you knew that was the right choice for him and how you had the courage to do that.
Homeschooling Decisions and Instincts
00:17:30
Speaker
Sure. Well, you know, autistic kids are often very, very sensitive and he was extremely sensitive and being in a room with several other autistic kids who
00:17:42
Speaker
You know, we're loud and dysregulated, you know, understandably, but it was nevertheless difficult for him. I really felt like he was really going inside himself even more. He was closing himself off to protect himself from that sensory assault. So it was that plus.
00:17:58
Speaker
I really felt that the curriculum wasn't designed to help him with his core challenges, that he was having trouble interacting with people, relating. And while it was great for him to learn the names of animals, I wanted him to be able to relate to people. And we needed to make it more fun in order to do that. We needed to have fewer rules. If he had to sit in a chair all day and all he learned all day was sitting in a chair, that wasn't so much fun.
00:18:26
Speaker
And he wasn't relating so well to the person making him sit in a chair. So those two things were enough for me to say, this is not working for him. And I have no idea what I'm doing. I'm a lawyer. I had zero idea. But I somehow had the confidence to believe that I could do it better.
00:18:48
Speaker
Yeah, we can definitely relate to those feelings. Like, what are we doing? We don't know. This feels right. Let's go. Well, I just really felt that schools were always going to focus on academic skills. And I understand that. But what was he going to do with those academic skills if he couldn't relate to another person? So I really wanted to work on the foundation first. Yeah.
00:19:07
Speaker
I just want to put a side note in here and say that we have a really good episode on sensory processing disorder because that's something that a lot of parents' autism is commonly also has sensory processing disorder or sensory issues. So that's an amazing episode that we did as well if parents are looking for another resource on that. But what's interesting is that what you're sharing about homeschooling an autistic child
00:19:37
Speaker
It's some of the same fears that parents who don't have autistic children feel like, I don't know what I'm doing, but I want to try it anyway. And that's a really beautiful thing just to hear somebody else say, I didn't know what I was doing and I took the leap anyway. But one thing that would be different or maybe an extra incentive to keep
00:19:59
Speaker
special needs kids in school would be all the programs that are available to special needs kids that you might feel like they were missing out on. So what would you say to parents who feel homeschooling would help their child? Like, like listen to your gut. Like you said before, listen to your heart. But they're terrified to take that to take that leap. Well, you hit it down the head. I really do think trusting your gut is the first thing. Right. But I think you know yourself and you know your child.
00:20:28
Speaker
So I think, you know, if you're someone who believes you would be impatient or hate the experience, then I think, you know, do a real self check and don't do that because it probably isn't a good fit. But if you're thinking about it, you're probably someone who thinks I could probably be good at this. Right. So.
00:20:45
Speaker
It doesn't have to be permanent. That's the thing you also can think about in that moment, right? If you try it, you can work through the process. And then if you later find a better option, you can do that, right? It's not a lifelong commitment. So that's important to know because, you know, you can go back and, you know, school districts are obligated to provide those services to you, even if you're a homeschooler. So there are ways that you can homeschool your child.
00:21:12
Speaker
and still get those services in your home or in a center. So those are other things to consider.
00:21:19
Speaker
Yeah, that's such a great reminder that it really is a wonderful time to be the parent of one of these special kids because we have so many resources. But like you say, it can be overwhelming as well. If you don't know where to look or you just aren't really clear on what your child needs yet, it can just feel like you're drowning under a sea of resources. Right. So you might consider starting in a school. I mean, what I did, we started in a school that didn't feel good. We pulled him out and homeschooled with a lot of supports.
00:21:48
Speaker
But then after eight years, I felt that I couldn't provide for him at home what he needed most at that time, which was a social environment. And for an autistic child, and he's pretty high needs, so I couldn't just put him into activities for neurotypical kids. I needed to find an environment where the people were specially trained to help him integrate, where the other kids would be accepting of him because they all had their own
00:22:18
Speaker
things going on. So, you know, when he was in eighth grade, that became the right time for us to stop that process.
00:22:26
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You don't have to commit to it forever. You can reevaluate any time things feel like they're not working as well anymore. Exactly. It's great. It's really nice for you to share how you and the resources that were available for you through the school system kind of worked hand in hand together. I remember one visit back when I was going for my special ed degree was that it was just heartbreaking. This mom showed I would love to
00:22:56
Speaker
have my kid at home and work with them at home. But I'm afraid that I would get in trouble with the school system or with the government or whatever if I took my kid out. So like even like there would be so many parents feeling so many different things here and it's just really neat to hear you explain that even that many years ago you figured out a way to make it work and I think that should be super encouraging for parents to hear that.
Organization's Broader Mission
00:23:25
Speaker
Okay, Andrea, I would love to learn a little bit more about your company, Autism Parent Solutions. So take us back to those early days when you decided to start it. Audrey and I are huge fans of being entrepreneurs as moms as well, especially when you see a big need and learning how to fix that need or put resources out into the world where it's necessary. So how did you get the idea to start it? Where did that come from? And how did you get the courage to do so?
00:23:50
Speaker
Well, I was fired from my day job, meaning my son went back to school, so I had time to think about what was next. And what I realized, having worked with him for the eight years, and I really approached it, I mean, I had been like a Wall Street lawyer, I approached this thing like a big job, and I studied everything I could study, and I got myself trained in, I had people accept me into training programs where I didn't belong, I didn't have the background, but I got in anyway.
00:24:17
Speaker
And what I realized was as different as all the therapies were and as many different pieces of advice people were giving, there were some common elements that were just helpful for parents to know. And they basically boiled down to good parenting advice. A lot of it isn't even specifically about autism. So I created the organization because I developed the tools and confidence through those years of trial and error and error and error.
00:25:01
Speaker
your organization and then what, they would have coaching or classes or what does it look like? Yeah. At the moment, I offer only this one program because I feel it is so effective and I really don't want to offer anything less because I don't feel that giving parents tips here and there or a coaching session here and there will totally get the job done.
00:25:17
Speaker
And I knew that I could help parents gain the tools and confidence faster and spare them some of that struggle.
00:25:27
Speaker
When I see parents' lives transform before my eyes, that's what I want every time. So it's a 12-week program. And like I said, we combine both parenting tools and strategies and the emotional piece that drives your underlying actions in parenting.
00:25:46
Speaker
And it's a constant flow between those two things. There are educational pieces, but the small group coaching, and then I also do some individual coaching for people as well. So the small group, people love the small group because you do, you bond with the other parents, you learn from other parents. It's amazing how common some of the experiences are, even with children who are five and children who are 15. The experiences are very similar.
00:26:17
Speaker
So that's the structure. That's what I offer. Okay. Yeah. I was just going to ask you if there was a community aspect of it as well. So the small group coaching, it sounds like maybe they can stay in contact beyond just the coaching sessions. Absolutely. They do like, you know, I can see them following each other on Facebook and I know that they're coordinating. Cause sometimes somebody will show up at the group and say, Oh, this other person is going to be late today. So I know that they've connected, right?
00:26:43
Speaker
I also, I do a monthly program for my graduates so that they come back every single month because I know how easy it is to get off track and I want to keep them in the space of remembering to look not only at what you're doing but how you're feeling about it and how those two things relate.
Resources and Contact Information
00:27:04
Speaker
So I'm sort of encouraging them and teaching them a little bit how to coach themselves through those things.
00:27:10
Speaker
that all sounds like such good resources and can you tell our listeners where they can how they can get access to your company where they can find you online and get more help for their own children or even those you know if if there's families without special needs children out there how they can recommend um something that you offer for someone they know um thank you i appreciate that well if you're listening and you are ready to explore if coaching is for you if a 12-week coaching program sounds good you can
00:27:40
Speaker
go directly to book a call with me and that would be at autismparentsolutions.com forward slash apply and you'll get hooked into my calendar and you can set up a call and we can take a look at, you know, whether it's a good fit to work together and what that would look like.
00:27:59
Speaker
If you're just looking for more resources or if you want to think about it longer and investigate it more, the website is autismparentsolutions.com.
00:28:11
Speaker
And on that website, there's a free training as well that you can access. It's about 40 minutes. And it really gives you a lot of the underlying philosophy and some tools to get started with. I do believe that ongoing coaching is the thing that really makes the difference. But the webinar that's there, it's really about
00:28:36
Speaker
good parenting. So even if you don't have a neurodivergent child, take a look at that training, you might enjoy it yourself. And, you know, I'd be so grateful if you do recommend it, that would be lovely. And one thing I do want to mention is, you know, a lot of times parents come to the program because they have an autistic child. And it turns out that what they learn helps their, you know, they have an autistic six year old, but it helps their 15 year old child who has ADHD.
00:29:05
Speaker
that much more, or it helps their 12-year-old neurotypical child, because the foundation of it is really effective parenting. Yeah, that was going to be my other question for you is, so for parents who have kids that are neurodivergent in one way or another, but not technically autism, is this something that could help them as well? It sounds like yes. Absolutely. Some of the parents who come to me, their children aren't yet diagnosed.
00:29:33
Speaker
Um, sometimes this is at an older age, like they've suspected for a long time, something is going on and they're in the process of trying to find out, but they're struggling with parenting and it helps transform their experience. And, um, you know, whether or not the child ultimately gets the diagnosis, it's, it's the underlying issues they're struggling with and it helps those issues. It helps, helps you know what to do with power struggles. It helps you.
00:30:02
Speaker
You know, some of that is about learning to set the boundaries in the right place, right? Like we talked about before, if your expectations are too high, you're not setting your child up for success. So what does that mean? How do we do that? How do we figure out where our child is? And then how do we grow step by step? So we go into all of those things, which is really beneficial for all children, but in particular neurodivergent children.
00:30:28
Speaker
Oh, awesome. Andrea, this sounds like such great information. I personally can't wait to go check out your business more and take a look at that free training because parenting itself is such a big job most of the time and even bigger and can feel very overwhelming when your child is not showing up in a way that you expected or not like the other children that you've had or seen. So thank you so much for coming on and sharing all your wisdom and I can tell that you're just a very calm
00:30:54
Speaker
Wonderful educator, and I'm excited to learn from you. Thanks so much. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. We will go ahead and link Andrea's website and her application for her program in the show notes. Take a look at that if you want to learn more. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks for listening, friends. Click the link in the show notes to subscribe to our email and never miss another episode. Show us some love by leaving a review on iTunes or sharing the podcast with a friend. Thanks for all your support. We'll talk to you next week.