Transcript
Speaker: Hi and welcome to another episode of the Glam Reaper podcast.
Speaker: I'm your host Jennifer Muldowney aka the Glam Reaper herself.
Speaker: On today's episode we are talking to some fellow podcasters Brian and Ryan.
Speaker: I love that it rhymes and they are from The Undertaking podcast or podcast The Undertaking.
Speaker: I'm not actually quite sure but anyway it is a podcast all about funeral related things and we are getting into it.
Speaker: This is a long one.
Speaker: Take it away.
Speaker: Well, you know, it's interesting.
Speaker: I actually literally read about like an hour or so before I got home today that somebody, somebody, I think it was actually even an Irish article where somebody said, you know, everyone's into these celebrations of life nowadays.
Speaker: I actually was a priest and he was like, everyone's into these celebrations of life nowadays.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, there's somebody dead in a casket, in a coffin.
Speaker: There's somebody in there and they're gone.
Speaker: And I actually read that and I thought, that's pretty powerful, actually.
Speaker: Because we are sort of, and don't get me wrong, I mean, I'm a memorial planner.
Speaker: you know, part of what I do is seen, can be seen as frivolous unless they meet me and, you know, we go through it and I educate them and stuff on exactly what it is.
Speaker: But this celebration of life term has been bandied around quite a lot in our community.
Speaker: And yeah, like it's, it's, it is celebrating a life and not mourning a death, but there is still a loss.
Speaker: And that is so important for, I mean, you guys as funeral directors know that more than anybody.
Speaker: Like it's,
Speaker: It's like it's real.
Speaker: There's there is there's a potty in a casket and whatever age that person is, you know, it's a hell of a dichotomy that we work with that you want to celebrate their life because you love them.
Speaker: They're great.
Speaker: I mean, I mean, they're their mom, their dad, their whoever, and you want to uplift.
Speaker: you know, their story, but at the same time they're dead and many people aren't in a celebratory mood because they're dead.
Speaker: So it's this massive dichotomy that we got to balance, um, to help a family mark this death to say, this is what we're doing.
Speaker: We're stopping our lives for a day or two and we're stopping our lives.
Speaker: And this is all we're focusing on.
Speaker: It's for the dead.
Speaker: Well, it's about the dead and it's for the living.
Speaker: There we go.
Speaker: Because like nothing that we can do for them will do them any good.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: No, no one has ever proved that.
Speaker: And although we're still here waiting and listening, but, you know, it's, it's for us that, that, that, that remains.
Speaker: So talk about your celebrancy and being a celebrant, because I do this myself.
Speaker: I am not trained in being a celebrant.
Speaker: Although I want to do the training.
Speaker: I want to be certified, not for any, like I can hold up the paper and run through town and be like, look at me because it's not going to do me any good, but.
Speaker: I'd love that though.
Speaker: You know, but I know there's something I can learn from that experience.
Speaker: And that's why I want to do it.
Speaker: There'll be one takeaway, at least one takeaway.
Speaker: But talk to me about your thought process on creating a memorial.
Speaker: So the wonderful thing, I guess, about what I do is the celebrant, to me, the celebrancy and the memorial go hand in hand a little bit, actually.
Speaker: As in a celebrant can be such an asset to a funeral home and can almost lead to a memorial happening.
Speaker: So there's a couple of aspects.
Speaker: So from a family point of view, like family,
Speaker: I don't want to say I'm not kind of advertising here, but my literally the tagline sort of on my website is I'm the best friend you never wanted to need because that's essentially what I do.
Speaker: That's essentially what I do is I. Shot her faces.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: Your face.
Speaker: Oh, yeah.
Speaker: It's well, you know, I it was from listening to my families and the testimonials I was getting that I realized that's what I became.
Speaker: Because what we do is we we provide sort of service 24 seven for the short period of time.
Speaker: And I say short period.
Speaker: I mean, it can be a couple of months, but, you know, usually families are respectful.
Speaker: At the end of the day, you do become part therapist.
Speaker: You do hold their hand through the entire thing.
Speaker: And that's the point.
Speaker: That's the extra to me.
Speaker: added value that I can bring to a funeral home.
Speaker: I'm not a funeral director.
Speaker: I mean, you guys, like you are rock stars and you're like, you know, your family's coming through and it's, you know, it's nonstop.
Speaker: And it's so hard to be there for every family.
Speaker: And you cannot give yourself 24 seven to a family because at the end of the day, you would suffer.
Speaker: And that's just, that's just cruel.
Speaker: It's just not right.
Speaker: Whereas we, we,
Speaker: the way I've designed my company, we can because we are not a funeral home.
Speaker: So we're not getting sort of this constant family.
Speaker: We're not getting it.
Speaker: So I don't want to say we pick and choose, but we can pick and choose families.
Speaker: And so it is very intimate.
Speaker: We take on board families that we feel are right fit for us and we work with them.
Speaker: And yeah, it can start off with just a celebrancy role where, you know,
Speaker: they they're not religious or they are i've done so many services with rabbis and and priests and and you know hybrid services and not i know hybrid nowadays is sort of virtual and in person but i've done the hybrid ones where it's religion but not really religion and we're one a little bit of everything um
Speaker: And those have been wonderful services.
Speaker: I know more about the Jewish religion than I ever dreamed possible.
Speaker: And I love it.
Speaker: But it's really just about giving the family what they want and what they need in that moment.
Speaker: And I think a lot of people, I know a lot of people in Ireland, even back over 10 years ago when I started this idea, and it's come on eons since then, my God.
Speaker: I mean, my first book is going to be 10 years old next year.
Speaker: Oh, that's devastating.
Speaker: But the, yeah, a lot of people I think now are a reformed version of what their religion is.
Speaker: They're not sort of, I don't go to mass.
Speaker: I am Catholic and I, you know, will tick the box saying I'm Catholic, but I haven't been to mass.
Speaker: Granny, don't kill me.
Speaker: I haven't been to mass in years.
Speaker: The last time I went to confession was probably when she was alive, bless her.
Speaker: You know, I might go to Christmas mass.
Speaker: I might go to Easter mass.
Speaker: And to be honest, I kind of go to church to just be alone with my thoughts.
Speaker: And it's more meditation than it is anything.
Speaker: And I feel like that applies to a lot of people.
Speaker: Some of us are scared to kind of say that, especially when it comes down to the funeral.
Speaker: And I think some of us, again, down to superstition.
Speaker: are afraid not to go to church and not to go to mass in case we send the person to hell or something like that, right?
Speaker: So for me, how like my business sort of came around was I am sitting in a church and one of my friends who passed away was atheist and I was there going, what's happening?
Speaker: Why are we sitting in a church when he was atheist?
Speaker: Like not even just not into anything, just atheist.
Speaker: And so for me, I thought, well, I'm Catholic, sure, but it
Speaker: I'm Jennifer first, I'm Catholic, maybe 10th in line.
Speaker: So to me, I just wanted more song.
Speaker: I wanted like, I'm laughing by the way, I've got to bring it up today.
Speaker: But I was in the gym this morning and doing a core class, and I was dying.
Speaker: And next of all, hallelujah, my song came on, my funeral song came on, it's raining men.
Speaker: Well, did I crush that core class.
Speaker: Well played.
Speaker: But that's what I want.
Speaker: And I think that's what most people want.
Speaker: And even when it comes to pre-need and pre-planning, what would you rather do?
Speaker: Sit down and plan your funeral or sit down and plan your last party, your last memory that people are going to have of you and how that's going to play out.
Speaker: You know?
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: There's a lot to cover there.
Speaker: I mean, you're so right.
Speaker: Lots to unpack, man.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I mean, cause I sit with so many families that they, they don't have a church home.
Speaker: They don't, they don't have this religious connection.
Speaker: But as soon as we start talking, we start unpacking this, they want prayers.
Speaker: They want scriptures.
Speaker: They want maybe some songs, maybe some religious songs, but they don't want a minister that has no idea who they are standing in front of them.
Speaker: And they look at me as the funeral director and go, you can do this.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And they go, you've heard enough.
Speaker: And I'm going, damn, well, you're not wrong.
Speaker: So this is how it started for me is like, I, I told, you know, I was literally, they asked me to do it.
Speaker: And I said, no, well, you know, I was trying to get someone else to do it.
Speaker: And they said, no, no, you're it.
Speaker: And then I did it.
Speaker: And then someone else heard it.
Speaker: And then they asked, and then it's, it's this big snowball effect of like, people would rather have the funeral director, me, the temp,
Speaker: The guy in town, and granted, I am in the smallest of small towns, so they know me.
Speaker: They see me at the post office.
Speaker: If we had a bank, they'd see me there.
Speaker: But they see me out and about, and I know them.
Speaker: So they want me to tell their story.
Speaker: And I'm getting, you know, it's still uncomfortable, I guess.
Speaker: But it's an honor to be asked.
Speaker: And it's an honor to help.
Speaker: Well, it's an honor to be asked and it's an honor to just help build this story because everything I do is customized.
Speaker: I write it from scratch.
Speaker: Now there's always some, you know, so the way I do things is we have the eulogy.
Speaker: We tell their story.
Speaker: And then at the end, there's some uplifting things that there may be some stories that I've shared multiple times and it's, it's all universal.
Speaker: It's all very humanistic.
Speaker: But I also have a prayer that I do and I, I have it memorized by heart and it's,
Speaker: And it's, it's very, very Catholic, but it's, but it's so good.
Speaker: I mean, it's, it's so good because it, I mean, the cool thing about the Catholic religion got, I was growing up, I was raised Catholic, Catholic school, all that stuff.
Speaker: And I'm in the same boat as you, Jennifer, that, you know, we haven't done math.
Speaker: I missed Easter this year, but anyway, me too.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: But yeah,
Speaker: I'll give them some credit.
Speaker: They have thought over the words that they have used for 2000 years and the, the words that they have chosen in certain aspects are so applicable to everybody.
Speaker: And I, well, damn near everybody anyway.
Speaker: And I love it.
Speaker: So, um, you know, we do our best.
Speaker: It's, it's rough though.
Speaker: It's,
Speaker: I don't know.
Speaker: It's, I get a, I get emotional.
Speaker: Ooh.
Speaker: Ooh.
Speaker: Yes.
Speaker: But you know what?
Speaker: I have to say that is one of the things that I, in my training with my, my guys is I'm just like, if you get emotional, that is okay.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: I said, you're not to turn into a whaling idiot because that's not okay.
Speaker: Because you, you have, you're not heartbroken.
Speaker: You haven't suffered a loss.
Speaker: You're, you're, you're visiting in this moment, right?
Speaker: You're there to other hand, but you're there to be their best friend temporarily, right?
Speaker: So it's okay.
Speaker: I've gotten super emotional, super emotional, but you know, there's a certain amount you can hold it together.
Speaker: I mean, me being here in New York, you know, especially if there's one for
Speaker: somebody who's close to their mom or close to their dad, like I am with my parents back home, I get emotional because I'm thinking of them.
Speaker: And so to me, I'm just like, it's okay to shed a tear.
Speaker: And to me as well, one of the best things that a family or anybody in the audience can ever say to you when you get down off the podium is, oh my God, how did you know him?
Speaker: And I'm like,
Speaker: And that's just, they're like, what?
Speaker: That's wild.
Speaker: I mean, that's brilliant though.
Speaker: That to me is like, job well done.
Speaker: You know, you've come across authentic and which is what you should do.
Speaker: But at the same time, when I'm sitting down with my families, honestly, I'm like, I didn't know this person.
Speaker: So as much as possible, I encourage my families to speak during the service.
Speaker: I'm like, I will absolutely speak if you need me to.
Speaker: I'm here to read something if you want me to read something you've written because you can't stand up
Speaker: I'm here to be whatever you need to be.
Speaker: But at the end of the day, this isn't my person.
Speaker: It's your person.
Speaker: And so if you've got something that you'd like to share, I think it would be wonderful to share it.
Speaker: So I definitely do encourage them as much as physically possible to participate.
Speaker: You know, I think what separates all of us funeral directors and what's really great about having you on the show is like, you know, Ryan and I talk about this and we encourage people.
Speaker: There is room for everybody in funeral service.
Speaker: You don't have to be a funeral director.
Speaker: You don't have to be an embalmer.
Speaker: You can do one or the other, or even like you outside of that, there is room for you and you can make a positive impact.
Speaker: But I think what, and this is just me and I could be wrong, but I think what separates us from those who do this as a job is that we give a damn.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: We, we literally just give a damn.
Speaker: Like it is, and I had this conversation and Ryan and I, we put this out on a show just, I don't know, maybe a week ago or so, you know, cause I was having anxiety about this funeral and I do this often.
Speaker: Ryan does it often.
Speaker: His dad does it.
Speaker: My dad does it.
Speaker: We all do it.
Speaker: And we joke about it.
Speaker: We talk about the chapel walk.
Speaker: We're looking for cobwebs and all this silly, this stupid, silly things that we do, but we do it because we give a damn.
Speaker: And although we've done this,
Speaker: 500 times, a thousand times, 5,000 times.
Speaker: It doesn't matter.
Speaker: It's the first time you're doing it for Mr. Smith.
Speaker: It's the only time you will do it for that person and their family.
Speaker: And you don't get a do-over.
Speaker: And that's what makes us freak out, Ryan.
Speaker: So here's the thing I'll say about it, though.
Speaker: You know, those moments are heavy moments.
Speaker: So, you know, I think, you know, there's a lot, there's weight in
Speaker: that come with those moments, that's why you have the anxiety.
Speaker: That's why you have to give a shit.
Speaker: Because when that goes wrong, and if it goes wrong, because it does happen, that family always remembers that.
Speaker: And they attribute that moment in time, that painful moment to the bad funeral they had, the bad experience they had.
Speaker: Whether what, and it doesn't matter what it is.
Speaker: It can be any, any experience.
Speaker: I, I'm just saying, whether it's green, whether it's burial, whatever does not matter.
Speaker: The experience is what they remember, you know?
Speaker: And, and that's what, that's why to me,
Speaker: To me, you know, Brian's right.
Speaker: It does matter.
Speaker: You have to care about what you're doing.
Speaker: There's so many moving parts that come into play.
Speaker: So many third parties you're bringing in to the mix.
Speaker: There's a schedule as to how things are supposed to go.
Speaker: The service runs over because the minister tries to, you know, save the entire congregation there in the chapel and you're an hour late.
Speaker: And you've got military services at 4, and you were supposed to be there at 3.30, and, oh, it's 4.30.
Speaker: You know what I mean?
Speaker: Things like that.
Speaker: A lot of it, you know, timing is a big thing.
Speaker: So there's a lot of weight that comes with it.
Speaker: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker: And actually, just because there was a part of when you were asking me about the celebrant stuff, Brian, and you just touched on a little bit, reminded me of it there, Ryan, is one other part that sort of my team of celebrants, I feel do, or I at least train them up to do.
Speaker: But I think every celebrant, outside celebrant, as in an outsource,
Speaker: provides a funeral home is because they're outside of the funeral home, right?
Speaker: They add this extra
Speaker: wave right they're additional they're an extra sales wave they're an extra opportunity to connect with the family from a different level so for example I've sat with families in the arrangement with arrangers and the arranger has done everything perfectly has said every you know given the family all of their options
Speaker: and the family's walked away and, you know, they'll be in touch.
Speaker: And of course, the funeral director gets in touch about the things that they have to get in touch with.
Speaker: And then me and the family will inevitably connect on sort of the service and the things we have to connect with.
Speaker: And then in going through the service, they inevitably,
Speaker: you know, will, oh, flowers.
Speaker: I never even thought of flowers.
Speaker: Yeah, actually, I'd really like some flowers here and there and here and there and whatever.
Speaker: Oh, live music.
Speaker: Yeah, I'd really love some live music.
Speaker: Or catering.
Speaker: I never, yeah, I'd love something afterwards.
Speaker: So I find that a celebrant, especially somebody who's been outsourced,
Speaker: A celebrant can be that added, that extra sales revenue, right?
Speaker: So because I am coming at it from a different angle and I say I, my team, I'm coming at it from a different angle.
Speaker: So you've gone through all of their options.
Speaker: but because they're in the moment, they're not listening or they're choosing to, they're focusing on something else or they're just so distraught because it's too soon or whatever it might be.
Speaker: Whereas then all of a sudden when I'm sitting with them, they're a little bit more relaxed because we're talking about the service.
Speaker: And so it, you know, small parts come and I don't know, Brian, you may have experienced this even not as an outsourcer, but you may have experienced some of it.
Speaker: But I find that that happens.
Speaker: And equally, I also find that because,
Speaker: as I said, you become the best friend that they never wanted to need in that moment when you're going through the service, I actually find that it can be a great time for you to get feedback on the funeral director and the funeral home.
Speaker: Oh yeah.
Speaker: That's been quite a lot for me where I'm able to, this sounds bad, but I'm able to give the funeral director a heads up.
Speaker: Like, listen, such and such feels like you're not following up on everything quick enough.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: And that could be just a personality clash or whatever it might be.
Speaker: They might expect things like this.
Speaker: The funeral director might be like, oh, well, I got back to them this morning, but I haven't gotten back to them since this morning, whatever it might be.
Speaker: But giving that extra feedback, I find can help.
Speaker: the entire situation go a lot smoother.
Speaker: Oh, that's huge.
Speaker: I've never even considered that.
Speaker: It's Ryan, we're having a podcast moment here.
Speaker: Like this is huge.
Speaker: Wow.
Speaker: Because we don't have that opportunity too often as a funeral director, we connect with our families as we do, you know, we do our best to set the expectations, but sometimes there's not a connection there that, you know, they need the death certificate yesterday.
Speaker: It may be five days.
Speaker: It may be a month.
Speaker: I don't, we don't know, but we got to set that connection and,
Speaker: or that expectation.
Speaker: And as a celebrant, that is part of your staff.
Speaker: Oh my God, you're a separate person that I, and I'm guessing here, I mean, you can tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm guessing that families are, are very, very open with you that.
Speaker: Yeah.
Speaker: A lot more.
Speaker: So I like, I find, as I said, I've experienced it.
Speaker: I've sat in on the arrangements almost like invisible nearly, you know, because it's not the time, but
Speaker: an introduction and then at different levels.
Speaker: And yeah, it's not, I'd like to say it's been once, it's not, it's been many, many times where you get positive and negative feedback.
Speaker: It doesn't matter.
Speaker: And it can be just, as I said, it can be just something so small, like, oh, such and such said they'd ring me today and they never did.
Speaker: And I'll be like, oh, I'm so sorry, Mrs. Such and such.
Speaker: I believe it's his day off or it's her whatever or whatever it can be.
Speaker: It can be something like that's what I'm saying.
Speaker: It's never necessarily anything bad.
Speaker: Touch wood.
Speaker: I haven't had anything bad, bad.
Speaker: It's usually just some form of a random disconnect.
Speaker: But by you getting that nugget of information and feeding it back into the funeral home and the funeral director.
Speaker: all of a sudden you've nipped what could potentially become a bigger problem in the bud and you've given, you've excelled in your service really, because you're able to sort that out, you know?
Speaker: Ooh, I like this.
Speaker: This is, this is good stuff, Ryan.
Speaker: I'll say this, a minister doesn't always do it right.
Speaker: I mean, I think we've got to understand that too.
Speaker: Like, you know, I've seen ministers where they've, you know, 10 minutes before the service sat down with the family and then put the service together and, and, and, you know,
Speaker: That's what I'm saying is, you know, and I'll say this, I'll throw Catholic priests under the bus too.
Speaker: They're tough to work with.
Speaker: They are tough to work with and tough to deal with.
Speaker: And because it's so manufactured and how it goes about, sometimes the family just
Speaker: it's, it's tough for them, you know, you know, and then also, you know, some of the things that, you know, just some of the things priests say, you know, to, you know, giving last rites and it's just, you got to be lighthearted a little bit, you know, it can't be all hard.
Speaker: It can't be, it's an emotional moment, friends, you know,
Speaker: It just doesn't – I've just heard stories of priests just saying in, you know, walking in and talking about the idea, you know, I've got a 530 after this.
Speaker: And, you know, it's like, come on.
Speaker: I mean, really.
Speaker: I can't.
Speaker: I couldn't agree with you more, Ryan.
Speaker: No, but we can't say ministers do it right.
Speaker: I mean, that's the thing.
Speaker: You've got to hold –
Speaker: I love listening to the Protestant on the show.
Speaker: Well, I'll just say it, man.
Speaker: No, I'm not about to do that.
Speaker: You battle every time.
Speaker: Ryan, it's the copy and paste.
Speaker: That's what I'm saying.
Speaker: You've got ministers that read it out of a book.
Speaker: They want ministers that have a, like you said, a sequence as to how every funeral goes.
Speaker: To me, it's just, I don't know if that's better.
Speaker: Maybe that works for the family.
Speaker: Maybe that's what they want.
Speaker: That's fine.
Speaker: Whatever.
Speaker: You get what you want.
Speaker: Ask for it.
Speaker: Whatever.
Speaker: But sometimes it doesn't feel quite as personable or just personal in a sense.
Speaker: You're not wrong.
Speaker: As it maybe should be in that moment.
Speaker: Yeah, it's, you know, there's a phrase that I've become a little bit famous for.
Speaker: It's honestly, it doesn't matter who you are, what you do, when it comes to the loss of a person and no matter who you are in the chain of events, it's meeting the person where they're at, not where you're at, not where you're at in that moment, not where you sail you want to get, not anything, not your 5.30 appointment, but where they're at.
Speaker: End of story.
Speaker: That's all that it's about.
Speaker: No, you're absolutely right.
Speaker: And that's what can be difficult for, I think, new funeral directors.
Speaker: It's like you got to check yourself at the door.
Speaker: You may be the greenest funeral director in the world.
Speaker: You may be the most Catholic funeral director in the world.
Speaker: It doesn't matter.
Speaker: You've got to put your set aside and help them plan and design a service that is going to be meaningful for them.
Speaker: That was part one of my chat with Brian and Ryan.
Speaker: So what do you think?
Speaker: Tell us all your thoughts as always in the comments below or shoot us an email at glamouryforpodcast at gmail.com and we'll talk to you soon.
