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EP 88: Creepy Twins
28 Plays2 years ago
We are seeing double this week as we cover two cases of very strangely behaved twins. Kelsey covers the Spahalski twins, Stephen & Robert, who seem to share more than just genes with each other. Then, Alanna walks us through the bizarre story of Ursula & Sabina Eriksson, who suddenly began acting strange and caused a huge scene on a highway, before one of them eventually murdered someone. At what point does twin telepathy go too far, and can one twin's illness or murderous impulses be caught by the other? We explore these questions and more during this week's ep. Happy Listening!
Tags: Twin Telepathy, Stephen & Robert Spahalski, Ursula & Sabina Eriksson
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Transcript
Cultural Significance of Number 88
00:00:21
Speaker
Welcome to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck.
00:00:28
Speaker
I'm Alana. I'm Kelsey. In today's episode 88, I just realized I got very excited. Well, as you now know, if you listened to last week's, the number eight is pretty lucky in Asian culture. And that's, I don't know if I mentioned this, but maybe that's why
00:00:54
Speaker
I was born in 88 and it was the year of the dragon and they consider the year of the dragon pretty lucky. And now I wonder if there's a correlation with it because of being 88. Probably. I don't know. I don't know. It's interesting. Do you know what your Chinese zodiac sign is? Is it the boar or the pig? Were you born in 95? Yeah.
00:01:23
Speaker
I believe it's the boar. My mom and I have the same one. Oh, that's cool. I'll double check. Yeah, I think it's the boar or something. The pig. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
Reincarnation Wishes
00:01:41
Speaker
Yes, the pig or sometimes translated as the boar. Pigs are my favorite though. They're very cute. They're a little curly.
00:01:51
Speaker
Curly tails. I actually love them. I usually say they're my second favorite animal because it's seals. I love monkeys and sloths. Sloths are very interesting. They're fun.
00:02:11
Speaker
They're fun. They're funky. Don't they have lots of like, I don't know, mosses and things growing? Yeah, cuz they move so slowly. Or fur, yeah. I would love to be... I would love to like come back or be reincarnated as an animal that either gets to hibernate and sleep for months on end. Or a sloth.
00:02:38
Speaker
because I feel like that's how I want to spend my days. We're a panda. Pandas seem pretty great. I'd love to be a panda in a zoo. Just like... Just their general chubbiness does look very... And they roll around. They're just like... That's so cute. That'd be fun. What about... Do you remember in the...
'The Magicians' Adaptation Discussion
00:03:03
Speaker
Okay, it was in the Magicians, the book series.
00:03:07
Speaker
the trilogy, but probably maybe not the show, because I don't remember if they went on the big sea voyage in the show, and then they wanted to take one of the animal representatives on the voyage, and the only one that agreed to go was the sloth, so they stuck them down in the hold of the ship. It's because he wasn't going to bother anyone down there. Abigail.
00:03:31
Speaker
um yes yes i think in the show they went on the voyage but i don't remember the sloth going probably not yeah it was a pretty good show though i don't know if you guys have graduated on from the harry potter it is the magical university yeah i i still love like season one holds a very special place in my heart and then yeah i feel like season two is
00:04:01
Speaker
like I like like 50% as much and then everything like after that it kind of I don't know more and more and I disliked it yeah I would say it was one of those that veers off from the books a bit too so then you're like if you love the books and you're trying to go well can I accept the show for what it is and
00:04:27
Speaker
yeah and that stuff too so yeah i could see that but it's it's worth watching but anyway what are you guys watching these days to get through the dullness of january right i mean you're listening to the right things obviously yeah the same to us
Podcast Themes and Listener Welcome
00:04:52
Speaker
I always forget to say this because there's new people that could join any time, any episode. Who knew? Welcome. You know, so you're in for some creepiness today as usual. Probably some crypticness. Yeah. And clearly some television and or movie tangents.
00:05:16
Speaker
yeah if you want some quick recommendations i mean uh i watched bullet train oh that was good we just talked about freaking knives out in the last intro yeah did you guys watch it on amazon too did you watch it on amazon or did you guys yeah we didn't go to the theaters or anything yeah so
Subtitles and Cultural Perceptions
00:05:45
Speaker
kind of ticked me off because every time they were speaking English, Amazon didn't have any subtitles.
00:05:51
Speaker
And I had previously downloaded that movie. And after I watched it on Amazon, it was like, I feel like I missed something for half this movie, because there is quite a bit of dialogue that's in other languages. And I go into my one that's downloaded, that somebody did, and it has all the subtitles in it, in all the languages. And I'm like, OK, I feel like I need to rewatch this movie and actually understand all of the dialogue.
00:06:19
Speaker
So you're actually supposed to know what they're talking about. I don't know. I think it's Amazon like drop the ball on putting the subtitles in. But that does happen sometimes, doesn't it? Like, is that just me or doesn't it happen on occasion? You're like looking for the subtitles and then they're just not there. And you're like, oh, I guess we're just supposed to be kind of in the dark here. Yeah, because there's a few times where they intentionally wear for a few scenes like you aren't supposed to know what they're saying.
00:06:49
Speaker
in like a different language. But that, I feel like there was too much overall for that to be going on. Yeah, so when I was like done watching it,
00:07:01
Speaker
I started googling and then was like, I'm just going to click through towards the end of the one that I downloaded illegally. And I was like, oh, there's the subtitles. And I rewatched one of the scenes. I was like, that makes a lot more sense now. And then I was like, fuck you, Amazon. Why couldn't you put the subtitles in there? I'm going to literally have to ask Pat because he is a much better memory when it comes to movies than I do. Yeah.
00:07:30
Speaker
Like I don't remember being super confused, but I also can't visibly remember if I could see the subtitles or not. Yeah. Yeah. Cause I couldn't. There was no, like there was subtitles for all the English parts. Like there was subtitles for all of that, but then there was no subtitles. Yeah. When they're speaking English, like their subtitles for that. And then there was no subtitles when they're speaking English.
00:07:58
Speaker
in the other languages it wasn't translated so it's like wow that seems like a weird glitch yeah yeah yeah so i was disappointed in that because because you don't get the english subtitles unless someone has a i think accent like for example it was recently um listening to the
00:08:21
Speaker
the Bellas podcast, which is a couple of twins actually that are that were wrestlers. And yeah, and so they're they had a little reality show what was like following them and they're like personal life and stuff.
00:08:37
Speaker
It was a spinoff of like a bunch of the girl wrestlers or whatever. And one of the twins, her boyfriend is Russian and he was like, I started taking some speech stuff. He was like, I was really kind of disappointed to see that like I had subtitles because of my accent. And he was like, he has like a Russian accent, but like,
00:09:01
Speaker
I think, you know, it's cute and obviously it's, I don't think it's that hard to understand and he was like very self-conscious because they had given him subtitles when he was speaking English. I was like, oh. See, most things when you click into subtitles, it'll do subtitles for everything, which I like because... Right.
00:09:22
Speaker
But this one was like only doing it for him because he had a rush of the accent. As if people could just couldn't possibly understand what he was saying. Wow, that's great though. Right? Shit. Thanks E-Network or whatever. No, reality. Anyway, that's clearly my guilty reality show pleasure. But also I've been watching a lot of the great Canadian Bake Off.
Creepy Twins Theme Introduction
00:09:51
Speaker
Oh my god, yes. As soon as a season comes out of that show, I've watched it.
00:09:58
Speaker
Really? I hadn't seen a lot of the back ones so I'm like watching like a season two and there's a girl from like just outside of the city here she's from like Ladouk and I'm like almost every season has one person that's either like from Edmonton from Alberta or from Calgary every season. Yeah I feel like there's at least two from Alberta. They're good I love that show.
00:10:22
Speaker
Okay, I like the seasons. Dan and Dan Levin's the host this season or one of them, which is good because a lot of the new hosts I didn't like as much. Yeah, they aren't quite as funny, but they're okay. I like the people enough in it and the people sharing family recipes and
00:10:50
Speaker
I don't know, I lay on my couch and I go, look at their beautiful like tarts and mini cakes. And I'm just like, oh, those look so beautiful. It's my feel good show. When I was sick and everything, like the last two times I've been really, really sick is like the times we released a new season. So I just laid on my couch and was like, great Canadian baking show.
00:11:16
Speaker
I think it's a lot of people's guilty pleasure. I listen to another podcast where they like talk about watching like the, I think it's more like maybe the Great British Bake Off, but like I know that people watch these things. They do. There's one where they have like celebrity comedians that come on that are trying to bake. And then if they win, they almost always like donate the money to charity or something.
00:11:38
Speaker
Yeah, okay, I've seen a couple one-offs. Yeah, it has like a similar kind of name to the Great Canadian. Is it Great British Bake Off or something? That is another one, yeah.
00:11:51
Speaker
Damn. So cute. I don't know, I just like it. It's like watching Nailed It and you know they're super stressed and they're freaking out and it's gonna look terrible but when they go Nailed It and the thing falls and it just looks like garbage and Nicole Byer just bursts out laughing and goes, oh my god, like what is that?
00:12:11
Speaker
That would, yeah, that would be me if I tried to attempt anything that was like the caliber of the great Canadian or the British Bake Off or whatever. It would just be like, nope, nope, you don't know what you're doing with fucking, what is it? Marzipan and, oh, what is that other one that they used to mold everything? Fondant. Yeah, modeling chocolate and rice crispy squares. Let's go. Oh my god, they can make anything out of that shit.
00:12:41
Speaker
Okay, I derailed it. I'm sorry. Yeah, so fun though. Feel-good shows are definitely my cooking shows. Yeah, they're good to fall asleep to. I put some on last night. Even though I had started another show recently, I was like, that'll be keeping me up too much. Yeah. But damn.
00:13:09
Speaker
Wait, what are we talking about this week? It's still creepy twins, right? Yeah, mine's not all that creepy. I had kind of mentioned before I had a bit of a problem finding like creepy twins. It may have been my suggestion, this idea. Yeah, yeah. So mine's probably more true crimey, but it still involves twins that... Yummy.
00:13:38
Speaker
Mine has elements of true crime. Damn. Well, I mean, a lot of the shit you get if you type in creepy twins is like the shining twins anyway. Yeah. But I knew there was like a few cases like that could fall into bizarre or, you know, creepy or crimey or whatever.
00:14:02
Speaker
unexplained. Like the, the silent twins, which neither of us are covering, I don't think. No, no. Yeah. That's probably one of the only ones that other ones that was like famous top of mind to me was they like, we're just very codependent and like only talk to each other and kind of their own language. And yeah, just it was, it was over and above the normal twin bond where they were like,
00:14:28
Speaker
I can't live, you know, in society without you. So yeah, then you then you got to get into like, what is this? Is it paranormal? Is it mental illness? So I think I guess that's where we're going today. Yeah, we'll see. I don't really have a like judgment, I guess on whether I think this is probably drug addiction and then maybe some mental illness, but
00:14:56
Speaker
Interesting. I don't know. I unfortunately don't have a lot of details about like home life growing up for circumstances, I guess. Oh, same, same. Mine's like a psychotic incident. So that's great. Mine's a lifetime, I guess, or at least 20 some years of behavior.
00:15:26
Speaker
Oh my god, okay. Yeah. Okay, okay. Um, well shall we get into it? Yeah.
Spahalsky Twins' Crimes
00:15:36
Speaker
Lifetime. We're guessed two lifetimes. Because they're twins. In twin years, that's... 800. Or no. Because we lived for 400 years.
00:15:56
Speaker
Sure we do. I'm optimistic. 200. So I'm going to be talking about identical twins, Robert and Steven Spahalsky. Spahalsky. I think I didn't look up proud to pronounce their name. I forgot to. But I may have one like that. Yeah.
00:16:23
Speaker
They, through their lives, both committed a few similar murders and even spent some time in the same prison. Oh, yeah, but that's really different. They weren't really in contact with each other during this time. So they really only heard about each other through like, them being in the same prison or
00:16:48
Speaker
through like their different arrests, it would kind of come back to them be like, Hey, your brother's rested. Hey, he's in this prison for doing this now, like, kind of thing, they were like, in communication with each other. And really, anyway, right? Okay, no, and that's even weirder, though, because like, if you hear about twins, you know, that, like,
00:17:12
Speaker
you know, marry a woman with the same name or whatever, when they don't grow up together, you're like, that's weird enough, but then murdered. Yeah. So they were born in 1955. And they grew up in Elmira, New York in the 1960s. And it did say that the two shared was described as a strong twin bond.
00:17:40
Speaker
said that they always seemed to know where the other was and what they were doing. So they did grow up together. Yeah. Yeah, they grew up with their parents. And they both like to party a whole lot.
00:17:56
Speaker
And like to party, we like, we like to party. Yeah, so they like to party. There's going to be a lot of like drunkenness. And then it also said that they were both pretty gifted in gymnastics. It didn't talk about like anything that they did when they were younger involved in that just that they
00:18:26
Speaker
We're involved in gymnastics, I guess. All right. About the only thing. They were hella good. Yeah. They could do some flips and cartwheels. Very flexible. Yeah. I like gymnastics, though. I was in that for a few years as a kid. Like, if you're going to have to do something, if your parents going to put you into something, I'd rather that than, like, piano. Yeah. I never took it.
00:18:56
Speaker
I guess it was on like a soccer team though, so that was probably my extracurricular activity. I mean, did they never take you in like a school trip though or something, where at least you get to go and, you know, try out the trampoline? Yeah, we did that I think once. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god, we should go to one of those trampoline places here if they have them.
00:19:22
Speaker
They do. There used to be one near pretty close to my house, but I'm not there anymore. That was a number of years ago. Okay. Yeah. About one of the only other things I have about their family life was just that their parents divorced when they were 12. And at that time they were raised and stayed with their mom. So their dad, I guess is gone. Do they have other siblings?
00:19:52
Speaker
I don't think so. If they do, it was never talked about from what I could find. Yeah. Hopefully not then. Those poor other overshadowed siblings. So Steven Spahalski, he was, I just have, in the very beginning, I have his name and then just killed first.
00:20:16
Speaker
Oh, as in he killed first. He killed first. Yeah. Oh my god. So Steven in 1971 in Elmira, he had snuck up behind a store owner named Ronald Ripley, who was 48. And he hit him over the head with a hammer, like
00:20:42
Speaker
a bunch of times and then basically after that, I don't think it was with the hammer, it might have been a different weapon. He then also stabbed him a bunch and said he'd stabbed him to death. Oh my god. So like pretty vicious attack. This is according to newspaper. Like hammer in one hand, knife in the other.
00:21:04
Speaker
Yeah, that's according to newspapers at the time. And in 1971, the twins were only 15. So Steven commended the first kill at age 15. Oh, that's getting started young. Yeah, pretty early.
00:21:26
Speaker
Steven confessed quickly when police finally located him and newspapers at the time wrote that he had a twin brother in Shimon County Jail that was already in jail on a parole violation. But it was like different crimes. It wasn't like murder related yet for Robert, but he was already in jail on parole violations at 15 as well.
00:21:56
Speaker
Oh, lovely. Yeah, they're going great. The district troubled teens, we all have them, don't we?
00:22:06
Speaker
The district attorney Ranson Reynolds Jr. said that Stefan admitted to killing Ripley because he made what was described as unwanted homosexual advances on him. That's fucking gay panic defense or whatever. Yeah, he is saying that's what happened. So
00:22:30
Speaker
Uh, Stefan was convicted of manslaughter and was able to escape life in prison. He wasn't committed to life in prison because he was still a minor. He was just 15 at the time. And I think it said he was 48. That's interesting. Okay. He was convicted at like 17, I guess by like the time name.
00:22:59
Speaker
Did it, I think, I read. Any other overpowered this 48-year-old? Will he? In a rage? No, he snuck up behind him. Oh, right. He snuck up. Yeah. Because, of course, because he's going to take a cheap shot. And then just started, like, yeah, whacking him on the head with a hammer, which would incapacitate anybody. God damn it. Yeah. It's hammer time. Sorry.
00:23:28
Speaker
He said as to his motives that he didn't, this was like an article thing. I think one of the newspapers talked to him. Okay. He said he didn't want to talk on it and said, quote, if I kill someone, I kill them for a reason. That's all I know.
00:23:46
Speaker
Okay, good. I'm glad you know that there's a reason. Too bad it's probably not a good enough reason for anyone else. The sources also then went on to say that Steven spent most of the rest of his life serving sentences for lesser crimes like robbery, kidnappings and parole violations have no details about robberies or kidnappings.
00:24:16
Speaker
Um, or I guess I have, I might have details about a robbery, but no kidnappings or parole, Wylie. He's a busy guy. I could take it. Yeah. They're both pretty busy because while Steven's been doing this whole thing, uh, that brings us to Robert, who is doing a lot more stuff than his brother. He wouldn't want to be outshined. Yeah.
00:24:46
Speaker
Robert had problems at school and one of the sources said at one point he set a fire at school. I was able to find more information. There was a cool life event thing that some university put together. What was this? What is it?
00:25:12
Speaker
The timeline put together by the Department of Psychology at Radford University. They put through a timeline of Robert's life because he did a lot more stuff. Oh my god. Yeah.
00:25:28
Speaker
So yeah, that's either a really good thing that there's a timeline of your life or a really bad thing. I'm going to try and find on their timeline because it's just like a little like infographic kind of thing. Oh, okay. Like those are fun. So yeah, they're born in like 1954, 1955. In July of 1971, Robert is charged with unauthorized use of a motor vehicle after being stopped by police.
00:25:58
Speaker
The next month, he's charged with felony arson after police say he set fire to a stage curtain and flag at school. So I believe that's the fire they were talking about. Oh my god, okay. A couple months later, so in 1971, he's ordered to serve 15 weekends in jail after he pleads guilty to unauthorized use of the stolen vehicle from July.
00:26:30
Speaker
It's then that Ronald Ripley is found murdered by his brother, Steven, who later confesses. The next month, Robert pleads guilty to criminal trespassing charge after he returns to a business in town when he knew he wasn't allowed on the premises. Okay, yeah, so they're getting for a bunch of little shit now.
00:26:56
Speaker
Yeah. So there's... I think that's... Oh, at 19 he was found guilty of taking about $3,000 in cash and equipment from a music store in town and was sentenced up to five years in prison. So I think that's 1973. That brings me to that should be about when this one is. Yeah, I think so.
00:27:26
Speaker
So after Robert's release from prison for parole violation and shortly after Stephen murdered Ripley, Robert was in and out of various correctional facilities and even the same ones as Stefan was in. So sometimes they were in the same one and they like saw each other, but other than that, they didn't really have contact as far as I could tell.
00:27:52
Speaker
During one of the times they were incarcerated together, I guess they couldn't tell them apart because they're identical twins. One of the twins planned an elaborate jail break. They had built a hidden compartment in an old US Army truck that some of the inmates were servicing.
00:28:15
Speaker
probably as part of the labor works. Oh, weird. Yeah, so they built this kind of hidden compartment, and one of the twins hid inside while it was supposed to leave the facility, along with another inmate. So they didn't plan this together, just like one of the twins did, but to this day they don't actually know which twin did it, I guess. Because they can't tell them apart at prison, it's kind of funny.
00:28:41
Speaker
And he didn't succeed. No, it never left the premises. Yeah, they didn't get out of like the actual, I guess, Penston facility. Well, it's a better plan than, what is it, going out through the shit tunnels, the sewers?
00:29:03
Speaker
Is that what it is? Anyway, we were just... I mean, it works in Shawshank. Well, we were just talking about that because I was saying to Pat, I don't know what movies we're going to watch on moopy night when Kelsey's here, but I told her that I've never seen Shawshank. Shawshank? I will watch it in all my happiness beside you while we watch one of the most depressing movies in the world.
00:29:26
Speaker
Well, because I made you watch Lebowski and I was like, it's one of those classics you got to see before you die. And you were like, you've never seen Shawshank. And I was like, I guess probably not in its entirety. Yeah, great movie. Um, I know that it didn't stink like shit in the sewers because they had like chocolate wafers or something. So I'm like, I feel like I know all about it. I just still haven't quite seen it. It's good. Yeah. It's a good one.
00:29:56
Speaker
All right, well, we might be doing that. Yeah, so this is like great elaborate jailbreak they're trying to do.
00:30:08
Speaker
The correctional officials didn't know which one, which of the twins it was, and they weren't able to ever figure it out, even though Stefan insisted that it was Robert, because they couldn't. Of course he did. Yeah, because they could never confirm who it was that actually did it. They were both thrown into solitary. Oh, wow. Yeah, just to be sure it said,
00:30:34
Speaker
It did have like, in the little timeline thing, it did have a little bit more information. So they hid in the false bottom of the truck that was being sent to a government facility.
00:30:47
Speaker
Prison officials had reason to believe that one of the twins was in the truck, but he evaded officers when he ran into a vocational auto body shop at the prison where both brothers worked. So yeah, they didn't make it off the premises and officers couldn't prove. So they worked at the auto body shop. That's why they were working on the truck.
00:31:10
Speaker
Yeah, so they because they both worked there, they didn't know like who had built whatever in the truck. So funny. That's like the there's players that were on the Vancouver Canucks hockey team, which is
00:31:25
Speaker
if anyone cares to know, Pat's second favorite hockey team after the Edmonton Oilers. Because duh, we're in Edmonton. But the Sedines, yeah, they're so hard to tell apart. They have different numbers, but whenever one of them would skate a bye and they'd do a close up, I'm like, which one is that? I have no idea. They're usually twins.
00:31:50
Speaker
In fact, they were redheads, but they're Swedish or whatever. But yeah, they were so hard. But you think after a while, like those type of, you know, the coaches and the other players, they would be able to probably tell them apart. Oh, yeah. Because once you get to know twins, I think it is easier.
00:32:12
Speaker
Yeah, when you look at pictures, I really only found one picture of them and it I think it's like mug shots and they they must have been taken like within a couple years of each other because other than the facial hair and the like haircut and I think one of them has glasses the other one doesn't they are like identical.
00:32:33
Speaker
Oh wow, okay. It's pretty wild. They have the same facial structure. One of them, I think it says one of them weighs less, so his face is a little bit thinner and stuff, but yeah, definitely. Yeah, it's crazy how it's those minute details that are what it takes to tell identical twins apart and stuff. Yeah.
00:32:55
Speaker
It did say that one of the, or the second last time Robert was in prison, this is kind of jumping ahead, was at an Attica maximum security prison. There was like a big riot there. Oh, no, get into it. But yeah, it's like that Attica prison riot.
00:33:18
Speaker
He was there for two years from 1987 to 1989. And once Robert was released, it said he worked as a hustler and allegedly became addicted to crack. Crack. Yeah. Also 87 to 89. That includes 88. Yeah.
00:33:44
Speaker
it does well and that's also not just because i love 88 but that's because this time it's the number of the episode oh yeah i've been like seeing so many numbers lately i don't know if it's because we did the the episode that probably you know peak beside the curtain came out today the unlucky numbers but i've been like so noticing all the 11 11s and all those kind of numbers it's probably just because you're more aware of it
00:34:13
Speaker
right yeah but isn't it fun yeah it's all right um shut up that's all right in 1990 when the twins were 35 this is when robert killed for the first time and it said he continued basically until he was arrested again he had quite the we would call it a spree but
00:34:43
Speaker
Yeah, he got away a number of years without them figuring out. Who'd he kill in 95? In 1990, there is Maureen Armstrong, who was a sex worker that was working in Rochester, New York. And she was found dead in her apartment by police on December 31st, 1990.
00:35:12
Speaker
It said that she was wearing just one of her socks. I don't know if that's the only clothing she had on. Wow. But when she was found, she had electrical cords, multiple electrical cords that were wrapped around her neck. So she had been strangled. Oh, no. Yeah. Probably essentially assaulted then, especially if she was only wearing a sock, if that's the case. Yeah.
00:35:38
Speaker
Robert had allegedly hung around the scene and even spoke to police during the investigation, where he had identified himself to them as being Maureen's friend. So, I mean, he was... Yeah, he wasn't hiding very good, so they at least talked to him. Yeah, well, those damn cocky murderers always want to come back to the scene. So gross.
00:36:09
Speaker
Then about seven months later, Robert's girlfriend, Adrienne Berger, she was found dead in her apartment in Rochester, New York. It said that there was flies everywhere on the windows and stuff, and that neighbors noticed it, and there was also a strong smell.
00:36:30
Speaker
that they could smell even from outside the building, which started leading to complaints. So then after the complaints happened, her body was discovered. And... I guess so. Yeah, it had been a... Not a body, it's a demonic possession with that many flies. Yeah, pretty gross. Yeah. I guess the body was so degraded after rotting and there was like a big heat wave in New York and New York gets fucking hot.
00:37:00
Speaker
It's a huge heat wave in the apartment that the body was in and it was there for multiple days. And it was so degraded that no cause of death could ever be determined. So because of this, I think they ruled it as at least semi-suspicious.
00:37:19
Speaker
Good. So they were questioning people. They did discover that her car had been moved after her death and had been moved and parked a few blocks away so that neighbors would think she was away. Oh, really? Yeah. Wow, he was trying to be pretty thorough then. Authorities did finally figure out Robert was in a relationship with her because that was his girlfriend and they did question him.
00:37:48
Speaker
Without anything to link him to her actual death, he was let go. Yeah, because they couldn't even prove her cause of death, so they couldn't prove it was murder or anything. And where did they find her again? Sorry. In her apartment.
00:38:09
Speaker
Okay, but he didn't live there. I don't think so. Oh, that really sucks. That really messes up with their timeline and everything like that. I hate that. So according to court documents and everything, he was later convicted of her murder, but that's after he was like arrested for some other stuff. So that same year, 19
00:38:39
Speaker
Yeah, this would be 1991. Robert killed his only male victim, Charles Grant, who he beat to death with a hammer, just like his brother, Stephen, had done to Ripley 20 years before. Exactly 20 years before. 20 years before now? Yeah, because this is 1991. Sorry. I must have lost track of the timeline. I'm sorry. I need the infographic. No.
00:39:09
Speaker
Oh, it's not very helpful. It's only just about Robert. Oh, okay. God damn. So how old is he at this point? Do you know? They'd be... They were born in what? Yeah, they'd be 35. 35, 36. Okay, so the one started at like... 15.
00:39:34
Speaker
Okay, I remember the 15 that was young that did seem really young but damn it's so weird that the next one doesn't Do something to like 20 20 years later Well, this is the third victim Okay So Charles was killed in Webster, New York and
00:40:02
Speaker
It said at this time that Robert was selling his body on the street, like in the area, and that him and Charles Grant had gotten to a dispute over payment, and that's why he had killed him. Which seems kind of strange.
00:40:24
Speaker
And then following this, like Charles' murder, uh, during the next 10 years, as far as records show, Robert laid low. He didn't really do anything other than sell drugs, uh, continued to be an addict and had contracted HIV. Oh no, living a hard life. Uh,
00:40:51
Speaker
And like all through this whole time, the brother Steven was still serving his 30 year prison sentence that had started back in 1979. It was actually for an armed robbery conviction. So there's like no details about that. I'm like, I wish I had details about some of their other crimes. Oh, okay. Yeah. So he's serving 30 years for that one? 30 years for an armed robbery conviction.
00:41:22
Speaker
even though he killed somebody. So he had been like released from prison for killing that guy 20 years before and now he's serving time for armed robbery. Okay, okay, so it is a bit cumulative then if this is your second major offense, but yeah, it still sounds, it sounds weird. It sounds like you should give way more for murder than robbery. Because he was a minor, he didn't get very much.
00:41:49
Speaker
So in 2005, Robert ended up striking again, reported that Robert had smoked too much crack. And he says that he had a vision of his friend Vivian Irazeri, Irazeri, who he said he saw her turning into a demon, which told him or something that it needed to be vanquished.
00:42:17
Speaker
So, yeah, Robert then decides to attack Vivian and he strangles her to death. Which is just terrible because that's like your friend. Like, yeah, complete psychosis, psychotic breakdown. Like, wow. Delusional.
00:42:45
Speaker
After he knew she was dead, it said that he bathed her body for some reason and then put it in the basement where it was cooler and basically just left her body there. He later said that he visited her body from time to time and said that he would cry or apologize to it. He would cry over it and apologize for killing her.
00:43:14
Speaker
oh my gosh yeah okay so he feels some sort of remorse yeah weird and you're weird drug hallucinations yeah yeah so um after this stephan uh
00:43:34
Speaker
Stefan, the brother, he's still in prison, other brother still in prison, he told reporters that same year that he had also communicated with his only victim Ripley after he had killed him, which is like a tie-in to like his brother Robert doing the same kind of thing later with Vivian.
00:43:57
Speaker
and like crying over her body and stuff. So Steven said that he would talk to Ripley, and this quote makes absolutely no sense. He said, he's deceased, but I do business afterwards with him through a computer. His papers are in order with me. He don't owe me nothing. He's trying to get me Ronald Ripley, but I already did business with him, Steven told the outlet.
00:44:25
Speaker
Like what does that even mean? What? I have no idea. This doesn't have anything to do with it really but there's a show now that's called Ghosts that's based off a UK show and it's like the girl inherits an old house and she could see all the ghosts in there. Yeah.
00:44:50
Speaker
like even that when you're talking to like 20 ghosts it like makes more sense than I don't understand what he was I know I have no idea um the ghost forgives me what is that what you're trying to say no maybe I have no idea so just days after Robert had strangled Vivian he so and like kind of talked to her body just for
00:45:19
Speaker
few days. I don't know if he was like hanging around their place when this was happening or what. He does end up looking into a Rochester Public Safety building, which they said was similar to like a police building. Probably not quite. And he ended up confessing to murdering her. And they did go in and find her body. And during this time, Robert then confessed to three additional murders as well that
00:45:49
Speaker
they like weren't ever going to link to him probably. Oh, wow. He just offered them up. Yeah, he wanted to confess and tell them everything. Well, I think I just have to look at. Yeah, there's like a couple other things about like him. In the meantime, he had like robbed a few different stores, had a couple like
00:46:19
Speaker
aggravated assault kind of cases.
00:46:24
Speaker
doesn't compare to his other escapades. Yeah, so finally in 2006, Robert who was, or I guess the twins both at that time were 52, Robert was then convicted and sentenced to four consecutive 25 year to life sentences, one for each of the murders. So like 25 to life for each of them, like
00:46:52
Speaker
in a row. So basically a hundred years he was sentenced to prison for. Oh, so he had five total? Four. Four. Yeah. Wow. And yeah, so Robert's now the one that's in prison again. And Stefan hears about Robert's killings. And which is kind of crazy. He like didn't know his brother was doing this. Again, they weren't really in contact.
00:47:21
Speaker
Okay, right. So he was talking, there was an interview with a newspaper while he was in prison, where he said, quote, I thought I was the only murderer in the family. He said to the interviewer, a guard at the Attica Correctional Facility had apparently handed Stefan a news clipping reporting that his twin had confessed to four murders. Quote, he'll never see the streets again, he's gone. Stefan said,
00:47:50
Speaker
It's like, yeah, he is. Like he killed four people. Yeah, sorry. That was a lot to unpack there. Uh, Stefan was set to be released around that time, like 2006 for good behavior, but he ended up not getting out until years later in 2009 after his full 30 year sentence had been served. Wow.
00:48:19
Speaker
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's I mean it happens like a lot of times you don't get out early for good behavior or whatever. Yeah So this happened So he was out and then just six months later He had tried to rob a bank
00:48:39
Speaker
And this, we can talk about- After he was in jail for 30 years? We'll talk about it. It's a running theme in the Shawshank Redemption and it's called institutionalized or institutionalization. Oh yeah. Cause you're like so used to prison life. You've been in jail for 30 years. So he was out for six months and it's likely he wanted to go back because in this like
00:49:08
Speaker
bank robbery he committed he had handed a bank teller basically a note that was just demanding money and then didn't do anything else he like turned around sat down and just waited for them to call the police and the police to arrive like he didn't try to leave he didn't try to actually get the money nothing he basically just handed the note so that she would call the police or they would call the police yeah that's so hard for me to understand
00:49:38
Speaker
in a way. But yeah, I definitely have heard about that. Yeah, so they there is like kind of psychologists and stuff that believe after spending 30 years in prison, he was pretty institutionalized. And he had probably just wanted to go back because he was unfamiliar with the outside world. And because of this attempted armed robbery, however, Stefan was only sentenced to just 30
00:50:04
Speaker
or 300 days for the attempted bank robbery, so not even a whole year. Yeah, okay. Yeah, it's like a slap on the wrist. Yeah. Yeah, I only have a tiny bit left. The only really update I could find was that Stefan was released from prison again in 2016. And he had been living in a halfway house.
00:50:35
Speaker
Um, and that he, during this, his prison interview that he had conducted at some point, he didn't try to speculate on what his twin's possible motives for killing four people was and saying that he didn't know what, like, I don't know what made him do that. I mean, fair. Yeah. Yeah. I can't, I can't really expect to know, especially if they're not close, I guess. Yeah.
00:51:06
Speaker
There was a true crime writer. This was from 585 magazine. I think it was like a true crime writer. He was writing for his book and I think he was talking to Robert as kind of a pen pal for like part of the book, I guess. He had this kind of correspondence while he was serving out his prison sentence. And at one point he asked Robert
00:51:34
Speaker
Uh, how he learned to kill. And then according to Benson, Robert said that he started as a teenager, which we don't have proof of other than like, not at least on people, but Robert claims that he took his father's favorite pig. So apparently they had a pig and he like, he shot like the pig in the head and killed it. And then said that his dad was really angry.
00:52:05
Speaker
with him that he shot his dad's favorite pig with a gun. And then it says Benson asked Robert. Yeah, if his father was angry when he did it, or if he was angry with his father when he did it. So like, what could your motive possibly be? And Robert said, No, I wasn't angry. I felt like pork chops.
00:52:27
Speaker
and like that's all he said so like he had like absolutely no empathy like the animal nothing it's like I felt like pork chops so I shot it in the head like that like reminds me so much of fucking Robert Picton's parents they like killed his prize was I can't remember if it was a pig or a
00:52:52
Speaker
because they had a pig farm so yeah wasn't it his favorite pig or something and they killed it he just came home one day after school and his mom was like oh go check out up in the barn like some kind of psychopath and they had killed his favorite fucking animal that he had like named and shit if i remember correctly ugh what is wrong with people yeah
00:53:18
Speaker
It was like, I feel like Robert's a little, well, they're both a little fucked. I mean, they both killed at least one person, so. Yeah. Yeah. Well, so was Robert picked and he killed almost fucking 50. Yeah. But that was his parents that did that shit to him. Damn. Yeah. This is messed up. Yeah. So not very creepy, but I mean, weird that like they weren't really in contact and they were only hearing about it after the fact.
00:53:46
Speaker
Yeah, because you hear about the psychic twin shit where they're like, oh, I'm miles away and they like feel each other pain or something. It's usually a lot more like innocent. Yeah. Yeah. So like, like, I felt your murderous rage. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you were killing someone. I was killing someone later. Just like, you know, like I just imitated you. I just I felt the same way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a little strange.
00:54:16
Speaker
Yeah, it is. It's a gross parallel. Yeah. I've never heard of those people. I hadn't either. They came up on one of the lists and I was like, oh, that's kind of interesting. There's been a few times where brothers or family members have both ended up being murderers or whatever. True.
00:54:46
Speaker
Unfortunately, when like parents are so bad that the kids take it up and you're like, no, you should have gone the other way. Yeah. Yeah. Well, because. Yeah.
00:54:57
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Don't perpetuate this. But it is. Yeah, definitely. It's hard to run away from a mental illness or abuse in the family or in your past. That shit's hard. But yeah, other than their divorce, like I like the parents divorcing, there was nothing really about their home life or anything that I ran across that talked about anything. So
00:55:26
Speaker
very strange yeah something weird but kids they're creepy watch out for yours twins right double the trouble also what was it oh i finally listened to the episode of well that's interesting today that had the title i was kept seeing when i was skimming that was like
00:55:55
Speaker
baby born with her own set of twins and I was like how? And it's almost like yeah when like a twin gets absorbed into like the womb but instead they like got absorbed into the fetus and it's called like in fetus felicis. No I don't know that's the Harry Potter.
00:56:19
Speaker
fucking syrup but or potion but yeah it's like it's a thing that happens and i'm like that is very strange there was one that came up when i was like you know creepy twins and it kept coming up it was a guy i think in like india or something that had his twin like surgically removed from like his stomach or like that kind of carry on his gut basically just made him look like he was like four years pregnant and like
00:56:47
Speaker
But it had it had like teeth it had limbs everything it was so creepy They showed pictures of like the x-rays that he had done of it. Oh, yeah, no, thanks. This is why I listened to that Well, that's interesting because it's a weird ass fucking gross science shit No, I couldn't even body is creepy enough it wouldn't be hard at night
00:57:13
Speaker
Oh, it can be hard. Yeah, you can't listen to too much of it because then you're like the co-host going, ah, do I have that right now? It can make you a little paranoid for sure. But anyway, you might have swallowed your twin and you're just the more better for it. You're just super powered. Well, the one lady, um, it was probably on that show too.
00:57:44
Speaker
she had her children and she was applying for some sort of you know child welfare benefit or whatever and or something like that and then it was weird because her kids DNA as it came out didn't match her DNA and that seemed really weird because she was like I remember birthing these people and then like
00:58:13
Speaker
the like office of I don't know who it was, whatever that she was applying for was like, Oh, you're pregnant now. We'll watch this one come out or something. And then they like test it after she gives birth. And they're like, Yeah, the DNA still doesn't match. It's like, she had had a twin in the womb or something. Then however, she'd absorbed it, it like ended up comprising all the DNA of her uterus. So all of her kids had her
00:58:41
Speaker
Not her DNA, it had her twins DNA. She had to get a maternity test. I haven't heard about that being a twin-related, but I've heard about people's... If you draw blood from their arm, it won't show they're related, but if you draw their spinal fluid or whatever, it'll show that they're related. It's different. You can have two sets of DNA in your body at the same time.
00:59:11
Speaker
Yes, this was that it's kind of a chimerism sort of situation. I guess it's a little different, but very interesting. That was weird. So weird. And we talked about the one where the doctor you talked about the one with the doctor and the blood. Oh, that was fucked up. Well, you didn't cover it. But I don't if anyone listened, we talked about it because it was a forensic files and it was fucked up case of I'm going to put fake
00:59:39
Speaker
blood and vial in my arm because I'm a doctor that's gonna fool the system. He did though. He technically did for five years. Yeah. But he figured it out. Thank God for tenacious women. He wasn't gonna let it go. Anyway, on that tangent, we'll be right back for another case. Yeah.
01:00:10
Speaker
We're live. We're black, baby. We're back. Back in black. Okay. I am coming at you with the story of the Erikaans.
Erickson Twins' Incidents
01:00:23
Speaker
Erikaan? Oh my God. That's Pat's character's name in D&D. Not the Erikaans sisters, the Erikson sisters.
01:00:43
Speaker
So, I don't know, you said you probably didn't really know this one, but may have come across it when searching, so I'm kind of excited to tell you. They, well, they did it on wine and crime, so I know it from that. Oh, right, right, right, right. Okay, yes, yes. Yeah, it's kind of an oddity, so I'm not surprised a few places have covered it because it's like kind of a head scratcher.
01:01:10
Speaker
But yeah, if you haven't heard it, just buckle in. And if you have, buckle in. I didn't really mean that to be a pun, but you'll see. So Ursula and Sabina Erickson were born on November 3rd in 1967 in Sweden. They grew up with their older sister Mona and their older brother Bjorn.
01:01:39
Speaker
love it. Yeah. Not their baby brother Bjorn. No baby Bjorn. But they grew up in... Oh, see, again, I like to say that I would look this up if I had had time, but I didn't. Because I often don't. But it's like a place in Sweden. So Soon, Varmland, or Soonay, maybe?
01:02:09
Speaker
Not too sure, sorry. But yeah, it was like a pretty unremarkable childhood. There was no history of any like mental illness in the family or anything like that. Yeah. Pretty quiet.
01:02:26
Speaker
But then we'll just fast forward to 2008 because we don't know very much about their childhood. So on May 16th, at this point Sabina is living in a place called Mallow, County Cork in Ireland, which I just love the name County Cork. It's so very Irish sounding.
01:02:52
Speaker
Scottish names are fun too. Of course reading a book with a lot of Scottish names right now, big surprise. But yeah, I love the County Cork makes me think of wine bottles, I guess. Yeah.
01:03:10
Speaker
Anyway, she is living there with like her husband and children and her sister Ursula had been living in the US. But she popped over the pond for a visit to see her sister Sabina in Ireland on around the 16th of May. Yeah, just coming over for a little visit. All seems pretty nice and normal.
01:03:37
Speaker
She hadn't been there for about a day, however, when the two sisters then decided to take a day trip to Liverpool, England for some reason. So they're leaving Ireland. Liverpoolians. Oh my god. That's such a fun name for the inhabitants of Liverpool. I love Liverpool. I'm from Liverpool.
01:04:02
Speaker
It makes you think of, yeah, Ozzy or the Beatles. I always think of the Beatles. Yeah, that's true. It's much more known for the Beatles, you're right. Isn't that where Abbey Road is or whatever? I think so, yeah. I can't remember. I've read books where people were big.
01:04:23
Speaker
Beatles fans. I'm like, I have not been to Liverpool. I would love to go to Liverpool. Oh, so cool. Oh, yeah. We really love Beatles Cirque du Soleil show. That was really fun. Vegas. Yeah. I would want to walk along every road and then I would want to go. What's her name? Her. Her name? Betchick's grave.
01:04:57
Speaker
Wait, Princess Diana? No, from the Beatles song. It's like literally just a grave that they saw. Oh, Eleanor Rigby? Yeah. Yeah, it's just like a grave that they saw in like a cemetery. Oh, interesting. Okay, okay. So it's kind of like people go to there's a graveyard in one of the
01:05:19
Speaker
There's a grave in one of the Halifax graveyards that's Jay Dawson. And so people flock to it after Titanic because they didn't like didn't know if it was Jack Dawson. But that one's Yeah, that one's not necessarily based off the character. No, it's true, though. Okay, so they're going off to Liverpool from Ireland.
01:05:47
Speaker
They may have taken a ferry, but it's unconfirmed. Nobody went with them, and we don't get a lot of information from them after the fact, we'll say. Yeah. So they arrived in Liverpool around 8.30 the next day on the 17th of May. And shortly after arriving there, they stopped into the St. Anne, or St. Anne Street. I saw it a couple ways, I don't know.
01:06:14
Speaker
St. Anne police station. And for reasons that are quite unknown, they kind of made like a complaint or a comment that Sabina was concerned about her children's welfare. So we're back home with the husband that they had like literally just left a day ago and
01:06:39
Speaker
were apparently fine when they left, I guess. My husband's incompetent. He can't keep her children alive. Now that I could believe. It's that person that's a bit of a control freak and they, if I, you know, I'm just, I'll just do it myself.
01:06:57
Speaker
Yeah. Like we just watched, we were rewatching a lot of that 70s show lately. I don't know. I think I told you, cause you know, that 90s show was coming and we, we just love that show. And, and now rain starting to get the jokes too. So, but, um, they're going to get married, Eric and Donna, but then she's trying to make him pick out everything for the wedding and he like, doesn't want to do it. And then his dad's like,
01:07:25
Speaker
just act incompetent. Like, you want to hear those sweet words, I'll just do it myself. He's like, I once tried to pick out a couch that had dragons on it for your mother. She's perfect. Yeah, that's what that made me think of. Amazing. Yeah, and the only thing that could even like possibly explain
01:07:51
Speaker
I don't know. I guess any unhappiness was some report said she may have argued with her husband the night before, but it's not a big reason. Yeah. Yeah. Concerned about the welfare of her children. Okay. It's bizarre. A lot of this is bizarre. So they end up in London.
01:08:20
Speaker
Oh, sorry. A possible argument. The police there contacted officers in Dublin and promised to follow up later. Now from Liverpool, they end up in London, but how they got there, kind of like the previous leg of the trip is a little bit odd. They probably boarded a bus. Well, we know they boarded a bus because the bus driver remembers telling them to leave the bus after they were acting suspicious and like holding onto their bags and clutching them to their chest and not letting them
01:08:50
Speaker
be searched or put into the baggage compartment. Okay. Yeah, they were acting weird and stuff like that. And, you know, people are have to be suspicious of bombs and stuff. So like, he had to kick them off the bus. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. So they get kicked off at like a service station. Like, so yeah, I assume like a big truck stop, I guess we'd probably call it here. But like,
01:09:18
Speaker
I think it's called Keel Service Station. They told cops after that they weren't feeling well, and that's why they had to get off the bus, but you know. Sure. Sure, Jan. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He said they were acting suspicious. Oh, God. And I actually did. I just remembered I mentioned in my notes that, like, yeah, think about things that happen on buses that are scary, like one that
01:09:46
Speaker
We might never cover that it was the Greyhound bus murder in Canada that was where the guy got literally beheaded and was extremely violent. Yeah, I've heard that covered on a couple things.
01:10:04
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to sound disrespectful. So the victim had a name that was the death of Tim McLean, and it was near Portage La Prairie, Manitoba. But yeah, some really gruesome, very, very bad ones. So yeah, I don't know. We might not do that one.
01:10:29
Speaker
So they get let off the service station and they're continuing to act strangely, which causes the manager of the service station place to call the police to come there and check on them. So the police, yeah, they're like, okay, you're being weird.
01:10:46
Speaker
police arrive and speak to them and they just kind of find them pretty calm and not super aggressive. So there's not really much that they find as a threat. Okay. And I think it was said that nothing was found in their purses and stuff. So I don't know if they searched them here, but they didn't have anything on them or anything. Yeah.
01:11:11
Speaker
That's good. I mean, at least, you know, they don't have weapons and stealing things or whatever. They're just acting a little weird. Yeah, because I don't know. Anyway, I don't know what the guy had on the bus. I can't remember. I think there might have been a sword involved or something. Wasn't there? I don't know. He got me headed somehow. I think it was a machete.
01:11:34
Speaker
Well, it had to be something big enough to take a head off. So that would make sense because that would be easier to hide than a sword. Anyway, I don't mean to make light. So, yeah, they just they're left under to their own devices because they seem calm and coherent. So the police leave and then they start making their way away from the service station on foot. And.
01:12:03
Speaker
they make their way toward the highway. Well, we call it a highway. They called it in most things like a carriageway or a motorway because it was in the UK. Oh, yes. A carriageway where you filled with horses. I was like, isn't that quaint? It's not still the 1600s. Just kidding. I love you. I love all our British listeners. You know I love Scotland. Anyway, this is in England, but
01:12:33
Speaker
they begin to walk down the middle of the road, or as they called it in the one article, the central reservation of the M6, which I guess the M6 was the road, but the central reservation is the space behind, between the divided lanes of the highway, I guess. Okay, yeah. Less of a median and more of maybe the whatever. We call it here a median or the divided highway or whatever.
01:13:03
Speaker
So then they appear to try and cross the road and cars are like swerving and honking and doing everything they can to try and avoid this deadly surprise game of Frogger. Which I love Frogger by the way. Be very very dangerous. It's so scary. Yeah don't fuck around on highways please. Right and
01:13:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's obvious like you could easily kill yourself like it's a deadly game they're playing for sure.
01:13:43
Speaker
The police are called, and especially when one of them is actually finally grazed by a vehicle, which is inevitable at this point. Yeah, lucky you weren't like full on hit and killed right there. And killed, exactly. This first car that grazed them I believe was a red
01:14:05
Speaker
leon siat leon i don't know i have a really weird name it's just spelled like seat leon i was not familiar with the car making model yeah i don't know europe european vehicle this is coming from a girl who wanted to buy a car called outlander just because it's called after my favorite book series
01:14:33
Speaker
Hey, shut up. Yours is just named after what? A place? No. A Tucson? Yeah. I call it the toxin. The toxin? Okay. Ironically, that's where the author of Outlander is from, like Arizona.
01:15:00
Speaker
It all comes circling back, baby. Okay, I'm sorry, I'm the worst. I'm especially bad because I'm now reading what Pat got me, which was, it's a book written all about, it's a Scottish almanac written all about the different traditions and stuff by two of the actors from the lander. Oh, Jesus.
01:15:25
Speaker
I'm sorry. It's really good though. Learn it all about the circle of stones there. Okay, so now highway officers are on their way to the scene along with officers from the central motorway police group. It's like a bunch of different cops are coming.
01:15:49
Speaker
including not limited to the group of cameramen from the TV show that they also filmed there called Traffic Cops. Glad to know they didn't just have that in the US. Right, we have cops, yeah. Bad boys, bad boys, what you gonna do?
01:16:13
Speaker
um i believe it's one of the like traffic cops people who are like kind of the first ones on the scene so some of them are talking to the sisters who actually seem pretty reasonable and calm right now so they're just like having a smoke and a chat uh it said that Sabina was wearing a yellow visor that read time to believe don't know if that's significant sounds fun
01:16:43
Speaker
It's like, I want to believe, like Fox Mulder's poster. And just as the other groups of officers were arriving on the scene, Ursula just all of a sudden darts into the road. So the officer closest to her actually reaches for her, but only manages to snatch her jacket and it just comes off of her. Like she rips out of it to run directly into the side of a huge tractor trailer.
01:17:13
Speaker
Jesus. Mashes into that. Yeah. I'm going to describe this part, but it is in one of the clips in that link I sent you so we can actually watch, not like watch, watch like it's not like graphic, but it's disturbing. Like you can see them talking to her and then her running towards the road and stuff. So
01:17:38
Speaker
Um, I'll just say this next part and then we can watch it if you want. So Smack, she slams into the side of the truck trailer, articulated Lori, if you're in the UK. Um, like, yeah, it's terrible. Like you can hear the screech of the tires and like her shoes just kind of go flying into the air into the next lane.
01:18:01
Speaker
Um, because this truck was going, like it said 56 miles or 90 kilometers per hour. God. I mean, it's a highway that makes sense, but yeah, that's insane. And not even like a few minutes later, her sister Sabina dashed directly into oncoming traffic as well, where she was hit dead on by a Volkswagen polo. Jesus.
01:18:31
Speaker
Yeah, her legs were crushed and Sabina was unconscious for about 15 minutes, but escaped major injury. Wow. She's very lucky. Oh my god. So if you go to that link, because one article ended up having two real good links to the little bit that appeared on like traffic cops or whatever. Yeah.
01:19:03
Speaker
yeah i had to watch it when i was doing the research and it's only a couple minutes but it was just like okay you're like you're you know it's everything i just described but it's just you know it's kind of disturbing to like watch it you know trying to get to the part where they're oh yeah it's at the bottom of the like article yeah i had to like it's like you read the whole article and then once you're scrolled all the way to the bottom then they have two
01:19:32
Speaker
links so it would just be the first one you'd want to yeah i'm trying to load it but it's like not wanting to load very much oh okay um it's weird for Tess to have like a video to show which is why i was like yeah you know like kind of excited that i got something to show to you but it's yeah um
01:20:03
Speaker
Sorry. It's not playing anymore. I tried to jump ahead past like their intro thing and now it's like not. Oh, yeah, there was you're right. There was like maybe a minute of talking. I can read my next sentence while it's going. An air ambulance was called to take Ursula to the nearest hospital because her legs were
01:20:33
Speaker
like I said, kind of horribly crushed, they said. Yeah, so they had to like call for a medivac. So she's down. And so was Sabina, who was unconscious for about 15 minutes after being hit head on by the Volkswagen. But then she's as soon as she started regaining consciousness after about 15 minutes, she started getting very agitated and very aggressive.
01:21:01
Speaker
Yeah, and she was spitting and clawing at the poor officer, the officer that was trying to hold her down, he's in the video, his name is Officer Finleyson.
01:21:14
Speaker
and she was like screaming at him and like fucking asshole like just having a whole episode like wow I believe this is when she's like calling for police when like the police are all there already so it's obvious she's very distraught and like something's not right um
01:21:35
Speaker
she starts trying to get up at that point and they start telling her to try and stay put and like one of them just says to chill which I thought I don't know but that part made me kind of laugh it was like just chill yeah yeah and as she comes around she's oh yeah like I said trying to get up getting more aggressive she was saying like why are you filming me kind of thing like why do you film me like that was making her more
01:22:03
Speaker
upset and agitated. And then she punched one of the female officers in the face and took off again. And she was screaming, Why do you kill me? And at one point she screamed that they were going to steal your organs. What? I don't know. None of it made any sense. It was so
01:22:32
Speaker
yeah disjointed did it load yeah it's just playing through it's just really long oh is it yeah it's like five minutes no this one's 11 minutes long and i like can't jump ahead to anything or it doesn't yeah i remember they were like talking at the first this is but then once they
01:23:02
Speaker
Once they start to show them by the side of the road, then it should maybe get into the. The real stuff. It's shown like a couple little parts. Do you have volume on it or did you just turn it down? I turned it down because I couldn't hear it on you at the same time. Oh, it's. You could turn it up. It's like, oh, I was listening to it like, what the fuck?
01:23:34
Speaker
It's mostly just them talking right now. It's still them talking. Yeah. Because for me, it's the parts where they get up again and then they say something. They're like, bloody hell! And they start to chase after them again. You're like, oh my god. No, it just keeps freezing. I don't think it's going to play. OK.
01:24:02
Speaker
Um, well, we'll try and put it on the website. Okay. So yeah, she's screaming obscenities and about getting the cops and people stealing her organs, obviously, like seeming quite paranoid and delusional at this point. Um, but at that point, although it took six people, they were able to restrain her.
01:24:33
Speaker
at that point. Yeah, there was like, two, I know two of the officers were like, female, and then there was like, at least two or three of the traffic cops that were male. And then there was like, also like a retired cop who I think was one of the motorists that happened to be like, involved or at the scene or whatever, because they had like a retired cop helping like it took a bunch of people. Yeah, she was like,
01:25:04
Speaker
crazy strong. Then they handcuffed her and sedated her. They were like, we better just make sure because they don't seem to like, the other one's only down because her legs are broken. She's still agitated too. It's so crazy.
01:25:27
Speaker
They found pieces of their shattered cell phones scattered around. It said several phones and I was like, okay, is that like more than the two that they might have had? I don't know. Yeah. A number of cell phones, I think one article said, which, don't you hate that? A number? Yeah. What number? Just tell me.
01:25:54
Speaker
um so they are taken to hospital Ursula is obviously taken to the urgent care and then Sabina who was alert um and and everything conscious was looked over um but basically unharmed somehow yeah oh my god I don't know it's crazy and they said she was even like quite
01:26:21
Speaker
you know in high spirits at this point like quite joking and almost like flirty with the staff and officers at this point all right yeah yeah yeah yeah she's got her mojo back um she said something like in Sweden we say that an accident rarely comes alone usually at least one more follows maybe two creepy but does that remind you of our
01:26:52
Speaker
suspicious episode like that they accidentally come in threes and you should break two things in your house yeah apparently they really believe it i don't know i mean every it's like a thing around the world though like stuff coming in threes oh yeah for sure i'm just like it's so funny that it like came up again yeah that definitely wasn't looking for it
01:27:22
Speaker
So she might have been kept overnight, but Sabina wasn't kept very long at the hospital because she didn't have any severe injuries. But also, although some reports and articles said that at this point a psych evaluation was done,
01:27:42
Speaker
A lot of other ones refuted that and there doesn't seem to be any evidence to support this. So especially as we'll get to some other things like I doubt that she was properly evaluated mentally. Probably not. If you are if you're just in like an emergency room or standard hospital, they're typically are equipped to do like a psych eval.
01:28:10
Speaker
That's right. Let's take all the people in. And she's just there for the one night in this case, and they didn't send her for further testing, it appears. So she pled guilty to charges for punching the officer and trespassing on a motorway, but was only given a day in jail
01:28:35
Speaker
either served that day in jail or they counted the night in hospital. It wasn't really clear to me. Oh, weird. Yeah, she wasn't held long. No, sounds like she got off scot-free. Like, Jesus. Yeah, but also without any help. You know, I wrote the cold, they called the whole cliche McClaver is done and let her go.
01:29:06
Speaker
Scottish words. Okay. It was all foobird. But they, okay, so now she's released from the hospital and she ends up wandering around the place the hospital was in, which is a place called Stoke-on-Trent-Lull.
01:29:28
Speaker
and she was wearing her sister's green shirt and just carrying the possessions that the police had handed back to her like you know when they give you back your possessions after you've been like taken in or whatever so she's just like carrying around a bag that has like a laptop like her sister's laptop and about a thousand dollars in cash also okay
01:29:49
Speaker
know, just released on her own recognition. And she meets two guys walking down a street, they're walking a dog, and she stops to chat and pet their dog. I wrote one thing said stroke the dog, which makes me laugh because the way the British say stroke your dog instead of pet your dog makes me giggle. No.
01:30:14
Speaker
But anyway, she's mostly just like talking to them and she asks them if there's anywhere she can stay around there, like a hotel or a bed and breakfast, whatever. The man with the dog says, well, there is, but like you could just stay at my place. He was a very kind man. His name was Glen Hollinshead, 54. He was a paramedic and he was a former RAF airman. So he served in the military in the Air Force.
01:30:45
Speaker
And he and his friend, Peter Malloy, they were out walking his dog that night, so he lived very close by. So they said, like, Peter remembers she seemed a little nervous, and she also made Peter a little nervous, but it was Glenn's house, his dog, his decision, and Peter was like, whatever, I just went along with it. He's a nice guy, yeah.
01:31:12
Speaker
Um, so they got there and they hung out all evening. They had a pleasant time in general. Um, other than they said Sabina was a little paranoid, seeming like looking frequently at the front window. Like she was like waiting for someone weird.
01:31:29
Speaker
Yeah. She also apparently offered them both cigarettes, but then quickly snatched them back and said that they might be poisoned. So that was odd. The next day, and Peter then left that evening because it wasn't his house. It was the friend. Oh, okay.
01:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, but then, so they're still there the next day. She's still at Glenn's house when he's making something to eat. It's the evening, 7.40pm. Then he went outside to ask his neighbor Frank for some tea bags, which I'm like, aw, he likes tea. Yeah.
01:32:16
Speaker
and oh Frank had been out washing his car in the driveway so he said sure but he promised to bring them by after he was done but however before he could just a few minutes later Glenn staggered out of back out of his house and he was moaning that she stabbed me. Jesus. Yeah so he allegedly used his very last breath to ask
01:32:43
Speaker
Frank to take care of his dog, which, oh that's so sad, yeah. He just loved his dog. And then Frank called the emergency line, which was probably 999 or also 112 can be used in the UK. But by that time Sabina had fled on foot,
01:33:11
Speaker
She was gone by the time police got there on the scene. She was spotted running by a passing driver named Joshua Gratage. And she was seen by him hitting herself periodically on the head with the hammer. A little similarity there.
01:33:34
Speaker
He kept saying hammer and I kept being like, oh my God, it's hammer time. And then, so Joshua jumped out of his car and he tried to take the hammer from her, but she then took something out of her pocket and smashed it into his head. Cracked my neck. It was a roof tile, which was heavy enough to temporarily stun him. Oh my God. How'd you have that in her pocket?
01:34:03
Speaker
Where did she pick that up? How big is this roof tile? Yeah, I know. I have questions. It is sad though, this one's so crazy. So she ran to a road with a bridge called Heron Cross Bridge and well, it sounds more like an overpass to me because she was able to there jump onto the road below.
01:34:29
Speaker
the A-50, whereupon she broke both her ankles and fractured her skull. Oh my god. Holy shit. But somehow survived. Fuck. Sorry. I didn't take a drink, I know. She was arrested, like the paramedics eventually arrived there that the driver, Joshua, had called, I guess.
01:34:55
Speaker
She was arrested on suspicion of murder while still in the University Hospital of North Staffordshire on the 9th of June. She was discharged two days later on September 11th and taken into custody. So they got her and then Ursula, her sister is still in the hospital recuperating also, but was able to leave later that month. But because she didn't do anything,
01:35:25
Speaker
She didn't punch the cop. She didn't do anything but run into traffic. So she didn't get charged with anything. She went to Sweden for a while. Yeah. And then she just like, which she possibly stopped to visit family in Sweden. And then she went back to the US where she had been living before this whole incident. So and her sister Sabina, she's the one that with the like family and husband and everything. Yeah. Okay.
01:35:53
Speaker
Yeah, and she's the one that just killed a guy. Unfortunately. And their brother actually spoke at later and said something about like they thought that they were being chased by maniacs. So drugs. Yeah, all I can think of is drugs. It seems so much like some sort of psychotic drug episode. Yeah. Um, but
01:36:18
Speaker
It's not really a spoiler to say like, we're at the end here that they like, like Ursula was tested when she got to the hospital for the broken legs, nothing was found in her system. And Sabina was never apparently tested at the hospital, just like she wasn't apparently given a psych evaluation.
Shared Psychosis and Legal Reflections
01:36:38
Speaker
So harder to say. Yeah.
01:36:43
Speaker
Wow. Yeah, it's so weird. So bizarre. Never understood this one. All I can think of is like, yeah, yeah, some sort of drug thing, especially with her giving them a cigarette and then like, taking them away and saying they're, oh, they could be poisoned. Like, maybe they were. Maybe there's something. It skews very like paranoid, almost paranoid schizophrenic to me. Yeah.
01:37:11
Speaker
So it's like, if they had no history of mental illness, and I know they're still living and everything, so I don't want to super pry into now or what after, but I'm like, well, there had to have been some sort of conclusion to the mental health evaluation, you know what I mean? You would think that some sort of- How old were they when this was going on?
01:37:42
Speaker
in their 30s they were born in 67 and so this is was 2008 so yeah they were 67 to 2007 would be what no they were almost 40 maybe yeah i can't yeah that'd be past like
01:38:11
Speaker
Well, just like, I guess, like regular schizophrenia, I think, and like bipolar and stuff is normally around 25 or something. Oh, yeah. And drug induced. Yeah, it's just and that's the way that it presents in both twins seemingly at once. And that's why most people claim the very unexplained, in my opinion, shared psychosis or the folly I do.
01:38:40
Speaker
Um, yeah, explanation, which I have a little bit on, but like, it's not really that there's not a lot known about it. So, but I mean, if they say like people can kind of like, if it's in your genes, you could kind of flip just like that. Like in your psychotic break, it would make sense that twins would break at the same time. They're in this situation together.
01:39:08
Speaker
yeah like i feel like there's got to be some sort of like trigger event that would you know how like trauma causes some mental illness like super directly like um the
01:39:25
Speaker
What do they call it now? Not split personality, but dissociative identity disorder. They will say that you'll usually have a younger self because that's when the trauma happened and that's when your psyche breaks off or whatever. It's just so, I don't know, I find it fascinating, but also very confusing, clearly.
01:39:44
Speaker
Yeah. So they did have a trial for Sabina in 2009. It was delayed a little bit so it took about a year. On the 2nd of September she pled guilty to manslaughter with quote diminished responsibility. So yeah, they took definitely, you know, the mental health into consideration. Yeah, something was going on. Oh, yeah.
01:40:14
Speaker
I don't know how it works there, but they were able to she just met every question with no comment at trial and basically didn't say anything. And like both the prosecution and the defense were saying that she was insane at the time of the killing. So I guess they agreed on that. Yeah, I mean, if you have the video, you can't really say a
01:40:44
Speaker
sane person would probably be acting in that way yes yeah so you have evidence that they're very erratic and all that but then oh it's so frustrating because you're like well the cops had them at that time too uh which i have a little bit more on that so they kind of say at trial they try to imply that she like
01:41:11
Speaker
forgive my language, but caught the crazy from Ursula, her sister. Probably because Ursula wasn't charged with anything. So maybe they were like, yeah, it's her. I don't know. But Nottingham Crown Court gave her five years to be served at Bronzeville's women's prison. So like the judge took all this into consideration.
01:41:38
Speaker
They were lenient, let's just say. The detective superintendent, Dave Garrett, had this to say, the reason for the two events may never be truly known or understood, but the taking of Glenn's life was a violent and senseless act. And yeah, that can be disagreed with.
01:42:04
Speaker
Also, Glenn's brother was notably very unhappy with the results of the trial and loudly questioned the whole legal system. Rightfully so. Yeah, I mean five years is very light even. Yeah, and with diminished responsibility or whatever, like that seems very light. I know. It's like manslaughter.
01:42:32
Speaker
I don't know. Yeah. It's like when they get to use like some sort of insanity defense, it's like, doesn't feel great. But you also know that they needed help. And nothing said that they went into. OK, maybe one article said that they went into like a psych facility hospital versus an or that she went into a psych type facility versus a regular prison. So it's like, I don't even know what they did after. Yeah.
01:43:03
Speaker
um but one more notable fact and which is the second video clip on the um the website link that i sent you
01:43:18
Speaker
Yeah. Was footage that was uploaded after the fact. Actually, on December 6, 2012, this footage was anonymously uploaded to the web, showing a previously unseen clip from the traffic cop's film footage. Yeah, so it was like, why wasn't this shown with the original stuff?
01:43:46
Speaker
just the stuff laying on the editing room floor yeah i don't know if it does load this one's pretty short too but i'll describe a bit what it is uh if it was deliberately left out i think it's pretty damning evidence of negligent on the police's part but it was left out of the shows oh i guess there was two shows traffic cops and madness in the fast lane
01:44:14
Speaker
But yes, there's a clip and it's on the website there that I get. Maybe we can put it in our whatever show notes website. But the two officers, one of whom was the one I mentioned that was helping to hold Sabine down and his supervisor, they were talking about what to do with the twins.
01:44:38
Speaker
who were still behaving very radically and dangerously. And this is at the side of the road at the time. And what is his name? Finlayson or whatever said something about then this one goes over the bonnet of the car.
01:44:52
Speaker
Sorry, bonnet. But he's like, yeah, he's telling his supervisor whatever he's explaining the situation. And then I believe it's the supervisor that answers and says something like, is she under arrest at the moment? And then he replies something like, well, it's 136 if she is, to which his boss replied, she needs to be if nothing else for going on the motorway and for her own safety.
01:45:20
Speaker
And so what they're talking about is a 136, which is apparently a, quote, clause within the Mental Health Act. That means that police can hold a person on account of their mental health, as well as having to give the detainee a mental health assessment. Yet it appears that they were never given the 136, nor were they assessed by a mental health professional when they initially got to the hospital or before she was released.
01:45:48
Speaker
yeah i think we might have something here too like a 24-hour hold psychiatric hold something like that but they talked about it and then it never happened at least they talked about it sounds like the hospital dropped the ball on that not the cops at least it could be yeah i have no idea like who has the
01:46:14
Speaker
upper hand jurisdiction responsibility to make sure that she was kept and seen too, I guess. Yeah, she should have been seen. Oh yeah. For that, I don't think there's no question. You're right. Yeah, they're running through traffic.
01:46:38
Speaker
It's so crazy. Even if you saw that as just being suicidal, you could do a mental health evaluation. That's right, yeah. At the very least. A suicide watch, you put them on or whatever. Yeah, it could have at least talked to a professional on that side of it.
01:47:01
Speaker
yeah it's yeah it really felt like they were like failed oh my god it scared me a little bit my dog scraped in the car okay um yeah the judge agreed that she had a low culpability
01:47:20
Speaker
went with the diminished responsibility defense i guess yeah and she apparently served about about i say 439 days before being released in 2011 is that just over a year yeah like a year and some what three months okay yeah because 356
01:47:49
Speaker
being released in 2011. Yeah, so she was released in 2011. And her whereabouts are now unknown. No drugs were ever found in either of their systems. I think I said that. And that
01:48:09
Speaker
was all the details on their case. I just have a paragraph or two about the what they call folia de or shared delusional disorder is apparently a name it gets given now. Yeah. It's so in my mind, like not
01:48:25
Speaker
even a real thing almost. It's like when they're like, no, women had melancholia. And you're like, well, actually, there's like depression and anxiety and all these like, much more nuanced things. Like, it's not just this blanket, oh, mob mentality. You know what I mean? Like, just can't just explain it like that. Yeah, my favorite example is that the
01:48:52
Speaker
what the towns or whatever that were like, people were basically dancing themselves to the dancing plague. They call it dancing plagues like the 1500s. It's like really people can explain it really still. Well, so what they've basically said is that most of the places that it occurred in there was like, the bread.
01:49:20
Speaker
Well, there was the right like climate and everything for like a certain fungus to have grown and like the wheat and everything like that that they were. Oh my God. That's what they say about the stupid fucking Salem witch trials too. They try and blame it on the goddamn bread mold that comes from the ergot or whatever. Yeah. I feel like they blame everything on the goddamn bread mold. Well, it's not satisfying to me. No.
01:49:48
Speaker
is to me like mold is extremely toxic and poisons very easily. Okay but then like why would it only happen like so severely one time? Like you know what I mean? Like what's the catalyst that it was like if like it was one batch of moldy bread there and then like one batch of moldy bread in in Salem and that that made people it's just I don't know for me I'm like what? Well it's more like like a group of
01:50:18
Speaker
like a specific harvest or whatever that like happens at a harvest and then people use that. And then when it's gone, it's gone. Yeah, I suppose one thing could get infected with the bald. It just to me, it seems like such a catchall, I guess, you know, seems like too much of an easy answer, but it's just me.
01:50:46
Speaker
So what they call phalia de, they have a whatever medical more scientific definition so I'll try to explain it or give a quote here so I don't you know just sound so biased but it says that shared psychotic disorder or phalia de is a rare disorder characterized by sharing a delusion among two or more people in a close relationship.
01:51:16
Speaker
The inducer, primary, who has a psychotic disorder with delusions influences another non-psychotic individual, or more, induced secondary, based on a delusional belief. It is commonly seen among two individuals, but in rare cases can include larger groups. For example, it can occur in a family and is called Fali Afami. Madness of the family.
01:51:46
Speaker
Sounds much better in French, though, doesn't it? Yeah, a lot better. Yeah. Oh, I think this last name might be French, too, so I'm not sure how to pronounce it. Jules Balargé was the first to report this condition in 1860. During the 19th century, psychiatrists in Europe suggested different names. In France, it has been called folie communique,
01:52:15
Speaker
communicated psychosis by Balaji. In German psychiatry, it was named, oh God, I didn't look up the German, in diesaerts irresin. At me, Ressa, I know that's wrong. I'm sorry, my sister will come at me. Don't worry. No. I didn't look up the correct pronunciation, but I love German. I'm sorry. That was by Lemon and
01:52:44
Speaker
Charfeter. That's a fun last name. And I just found that a little bit of this interesting. In 1877, Lissig and Falratt coined the term foliadeux. The French word foliadeux means madness shared by two. In the early 1940s, Gralnick, in his review of 103 cases of foliadeux, described four types of this disorder.
01:53:11
Speaker
He defined it as a psychiatric entity characterized by the transfer of delusions from one person to one or several others who have a close association with the primarily affected person. But I had never heard of the four types, so the four types are as follows. Folly Imposé, imposed psychosis, described by Le Sique and Falrat in 1877,
01:53:36
Speaker
dilutions are transferred from an individual with psychosis to an individual without psychosis in an intimate relationship. The dilutions in the induced individual soon disappear once the two are separated. So you can get out of that one maybe. Yeah I feel like that's most often what they do and like
01:54:02
Speaker
Separate it and the people get better and like all the cases I've heard that's what's happened Like you're in a cult you're being brainwashed, but you get away from them and then you're like you start to come back to yourself. Yeah And then it says folly simultaneous simultaneous psychosis Described by Regis in 1880 both partners share the psychosis simultaneously
01:54:29
Speaker
They both have risk factors through long social interactions that predispose them to develop this condition. There are reports of sharing genetic risk factors among siblings. What about twins? Yeah, that maybe is the most applicable then. Not going to lie, I skim read the four types earlier, so I was just as surprised as you. Oh, and then this one they mentioned.
01:54:56
Speaker
Foley communicated psychosis described by Miranda de Montiel in 1881. This type is similar to Foley imposé, whatever. However, the delusion in the secondary partner occurs after a long period of resistance. Also, the secondary partner will maintain the delusion even after the separation from their partner.
01:55:24
Speaker
Oh, okay. So it's not just simultaneously. It's like they're fully brainwashed. So even after they're gone, like a longer, the other one. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. They're more indoctrinated. Yeah.
Crime and Media Interests
01:55:38
Speaker
And then finally, folly in Dewey Tay in Dweet in Dweet, maybe induced psychosis.
01:55:51
Speaker
described by a lemon in 1885, in this type, new delusions are assumed by an individual with psychosis who is being influenced by another individual with psychosis. I mean, that sounds kind of like most of them, but okay. Yeah. Sure. And yeah, yeah, yeah. And on that bland note, that is my case.
01:56:17
Speaker
I remember them running through traffic. I did not remember them murdering somebody. Yeah. And honestly, yeah, you could read like 15 synopsis of the case and you get kind of the same details over and over again. So I had to try and hunt for anything else, but I tried. You know, I try to get like the motive, you know, behind things and I try to understand, but it's hard. Yeah, well.
01:56:47
Speaker
If anybody's got any updates or knows things, tell us. Send us a thing. Yeah. Let us know. They seem to be doing okay now from... I'm not sure they've probably changed their names and like... Well, I had one note about the one of them, the one that lives in the US now, Ursula. She like joined a church in her home state or something, but
01:57:17
Speaker
Yeah, I think they're doing a little bit better. I hope they are. Yeah, I didn't want to stalk them too bad, I guess. Yeah, I hope they're happier and healthier because it's scary for them and other people. What happened? Yeah, and it's not like your guys were like, it seemed like they were used to doing that. They were in the habit of doing that, your guys. Yeah, these guys were in and out of prison.
01:57:48
Speaker
It was their whole lives. Yeah. My sister made me do it. My brother made me do it. Yeah, this one it was like, my brother murdered somebody too? I didn't even know. I thought it was just me. Oh, how cute. Yeah. I guess everyone's in their family. Hey, bud. What did you do? Oh, cool. No, I don't know. Right.
01:58:16
Speaker
I've never bonded with my siblings over that. Thank God. Over true crime in general, sure. I would not support murder. We are anti murder. Hot take. Oh, well, oh my God. Next time I forgot what we were doing because
01:58:41
Speaker
The next notes we were going to work on was for Patreon. Patreon, yeah. What even is the next regular episode? I don't know. It's hostage crimes. Hostage crimes. Yeah. I don't know what my case is going to be yet. Oh, me neither.
01:59:04
Speaker
It's gonna be about the Bruce Willis movie, Hostage. Wait, is that what it was called? I can't remember now. He did one where it was like a negotiator. Oh. Yeah, I don't know what I'm gonna do. I've seen too many hostage movies, bank robbery movies, and too many Netflix documentaries about like heists and hostage situations, so. I was gonna say, yeah, there's one of those where like the main ones will probably have been
01:59:35
Speaker
covered at least once or twice before you can't really avoid that but yeah it's not like we're doing another Ted Bundy up you know what I mean like we're not doing uh something everyone's done 10 000 times over yeah yeah we could do a little Stockholm syndrome or whatever that's actually yeah the original case where people coined the term Stockholm syndrome with the bank a little bank hostage is it's actually pretty interesting
02:00:06
Speaker
I don't know if I've looked into that one too much. I can't hear like bank heist without thinking about money heist from Netflix and I just...
02:00:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And then I'm just like, I in every movie, I'm always ready for the hot hostage, like takers. And then I'm just like, oh, then in Money Heist, they go one step further and then they offer the bank employees are like, if you got it, because instead of robbing the bank, what they're doing is they're taking the on basically the rolls of money that haven't been printed yet. And they're using those to print their own money.
02:00:43
Speaker
So they're not taking any money from the bank. They're using the unprinted bills to print their own amount of it.
02:00:52
Speaker
Well, yeah, basically. Okay. Very sophisticated counterfeit. Yeah, like using the bank's own machinery. But then they offer the employees, they offer the employees of the bank, like money if they help them. Or like we will give you a certain percentage of what we leave with like six months from now. And
Future Episode Teasers
02:01:14
Speaker
stuff if you help us like because they're in the bank for like
02:01:20
Speaker
four or five days or something like they're in there for a long time. So like if you help us over these four or five days, like we will send you a whole bunch of money in six months. And it's pretty awesome. Totally dissimilar to what I remember from the actual Stockholm bank robbing incident. Yeah, that was a different one. Because I love ice movies. And you told me about it. And I don't remember if I really
02:01:47
Speaker
like got into that show or not i remember watching a few episodes yeah and i was like okay some of them are in love with each other there's drama going on and then like i just don't remember if i ever finished it yeah i don't think so i probably would have told you yeah love it okay maybe i'll give it another try do it there's what five parts now and then there's oh
02:02:15
Speaker
I haven't watched the Korean spin-off thing that they did that's basically the same thing, but in Korea. Well, what the whole popularity of Squid Game? I'm not surprised if they gave that another shot. I think I watched the trailer and I was like, oh, it's not as cool. I don't know. I just didn't find it as a tension grabbing as it was, like the characters and everything was.
02:02:45
Speaker
I don't know, it's Spanish. And I love that professor. I love him. Professor. Well, I don't remember right now. The one that plans everything. I think so. In the Money Heist show? Yeah. Oh, okay. Yeah, it's been so long. It's been so long. It's been years. It's been 84 years.
02:03:17
Speaker
Well, we're glad to have you guys back since 84 years, because we dropped our new episode today. And my brother was like, yay, new episode on his review. And I was like, yeah. Anyway, we love you all. Thank you for listening, and we'll see you next week. Yes, thanks for listening. Bye. Bye bye.
02:03:44
Speaker
🎵
02:04:05
Speaker
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02:04:28
Speaker
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02:04:45
Speaker
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