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182: Some who Snapped
55 Plays1 month ago
So it's another true crime, so we warn you it sucks. However. we always can learn something, we hope.
Kelsey tells us of the story of Maria and Domenico, a Telanovela -esque tale that might just also qualify as a tale as old s time.
Then we have a massive trigger warning for graphic details, etc.
Unfortunately, mental health issues plagued Vince Li. so he tried to make himself as safe S POSSIBLE. Listen to find out.
Love you all, Keep it Cryptic!
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:00
Speaker
Okay. Darkcast Network. Indie pods with a dark side.
00:00:26
Speaker
You are listening to Castles and Cryptids where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck. And I'm Alanna. And I'm Kelsey.
00:00:38
Speaker
And, excuse me, sorry. We are here
Behind-the-Scenes of Podcast Production
00:00:45
Speaker
ah for episode 182, think.
00:00:50
Speaker
Yeah. We had to throw you guys a curveball last week when this is coming out. So, yes, we are sorry that we were a little behind and we're really trying to get back on schedule.
00:01:06
Speaker
oh Yeah, this was supposed to be our year.
00:01:12
Speaker
it's just nice to have it. Yeah. A week or two ahead. And like, yeah, that hasn't been happening lately. and So there was no way we could like record this tonight and then edit it before tomorrow.
00:01:25
Speaker
ah Yeah, we would basically be editing it and putting it to post. ah What, about four hours from this minute right now is when we normally post? so Right? Yeah, not gonna happen. Pull back the
Pet Stories and Personal Anecdotes
00:01:39
Speaker
curtain, it's Thursday night.
00:01:44
Speaker
oh Anyway. um Or Happy Friday, if you're listening to this when it comes out. Yeah, by the time this comes out, it won't be...
00:01:55
Speaker
It'll be officially spring for like almost a week. um our Our next yeah episode will be sort of springy themed.
00:02:06
Speaker
ah Maybe tune in and find out and all that. So. That's okay. We just won't do a forensics February in March again.
00:02:20
Speaker
but but hey, we didn't have to do March Madness in April. so That's true. We're going to stop naming Patreon episodes after months because we can't.
00:02:34
Speaker
Sometimes plans don't work. Consider this our March Madness episode as we bring you People who have snapped crimes.
Spooky Synchronicities and Topic Challenges
00:02:46
Speaker
Yeah. so I got a lot of ah that snapped TV show. I think I may have watched an episode or two in like a hotel room at some point. it sounds like it's good. Other than that, I was not a regular viewer.
00:03:01
Speaker
so Yeah. Gordo, can you stop being so loud? Oh my gosh. That's like when Fenrir comes and does that, but when he's going to go lay by Pat's side of the bed, walks right up to Pat's side, then like full on like shakes his collar, like right near Pat's ears. And sometimes he's like, like shaken awake. It's like, well, yeah, you're so loud, buddy.
00:03:27
Speaker
Can't you do that when you stand up when you're three feet over there? Damn. damn Yeah, would be brutal. Yeah.
00:03:38
Speaker
ah Nothing like being startled awake. Yeah.
00:03:43
Speaker
Gordo would do that to me ah the first few times after I got him. Yeah. ah I guess it would be after after i didn't have Bailey anymore. Because he was, yeah, he was let out of the...
00:04:02
Speaker
the room because you have to kind of keep them separated and like try and socialize them through the door a little bit and that kind of stuff for a while uh yeah so i think bailey had left and then it was just gordo and i here and he would like pounce on me in the middle of the night would i would be i would be like just asleep and having the best night ever and he would go from my headboard has a like ledge on it he would stand on there and then he would jump straight on top of me sometimes on my face and he's like 20 pounds so like 20 pounds of claw claw first into your face and like it's 3 a.m boom oh and then he would just run out of the room and like down the hallway
00:04:51
Speaker
yeah yeah land on your face run down the hallway and then i'd be like oh my god so i had to start locking him out of the room damn yeah you just wish he would be catatonic but wait they're nocturnal aren't they oh cats yeah Yeah, I don't think he gets up to too much at night.
00:05:17
Speaker
and but
00:05:21
Speaker
Who knows? He's probably having little disco parties. It'd be funny, yeah
00:05:30
Speaker
I had a kid's book when I was younger. It was like Wednesday is spaghetti day and all the cats got together and made spaghetti on Wednesdays. Really? That's so funny. It's great.
00:05:43
Speaker
How? How do they make spaghetti? They were very smart cats. With opposable thumbs. and Yeah. Could make pasta.
00:05:53
Speaker
Yeah, they played with the food and they had their baguettes and, oh, all the fixings. Probably wine. I don't know. Were they but making the biscuits? They're just going like this. Yeah. Like a baguette.
00:06:08
Speaker
That's funny. Oh, God. Oh, yeah. One more thing. i know we got to start, but... um
Maria Barbella's Case: Love and Betrayal
00:06:14
Speaker
you gave me after you gave me um my birthday pin with the mercury and retrograde yeah it was so funny because I was ah listening to an episode of keep it weird podcast drink because i mentioned a podcast but like they uh it had come out on friday like you know i e the 14th the day you gave it to me or whatever and they're like oh yeah and here's the witchy update and this is happening and we're pisces season and also today mercury's back in retrograde and i was like
00:06:53
Speaker
It literally was when you gave me the pen that says, this is Mercury and retrograde. It was perfect. Oh my god. Chef's kiss.
00:07:05
Speaker
and so It's not super related to that, but on my drive home, um I have to always drive past this sign that says, there's a school near me that's like, Our Lady of Peace.
00:07:19
Speaker
Yeah. Okay. like school because it's like a religious school and then i normally like don't really pay attention to it but for some reason today as i drove past it in my less than kilometer drive home I, which is like three or four minutes.
00:07:39
Speaker
ah Not to brag. because it's relevant. I was like, oh, Our Lady of Peace, Seguil. I was like, oh, that's kind of funny. And then there's that band, Our Lady Peace. And I was like, I wonder if...
00:07:55
Speaker
I wonder if they started that religious connotation or was like, oh, I wonder where that comes from. Maybe I should look that up. And they were playing a song on the radio and then it cut to the DJ, like own radio DJ. They were talking about something and they're like, OK, like, OK, back to the music.
00:08:13
Speaker
They're like, their next song is Our Lady Peace and their new song this. And went, oh, my God. new song? Yeah. Yeah, they have a new song. um I didn't realize they were still making music. i was like, wait, don't they have the ones that sing Superman's Dead?
00:08:29
Speaker
yeah yeah let that sound i just thought it was crazy because what in the span of less than a four maybe maximum five minute drive if i get stuck at the two sets of lights i normally can yeah listen to one song maybe two so for me to be like oh our lady p our lady of peace school and i was like oh maybe i should look up is our lady peace like religious or like anti-religious or like how did that name come about and then they're like and our next song is our lady peace i was like oh that's so weird the chances started yeah i was like wow i literally am listening to the radio for five minutes oh totally i'm always noticing those things i think i told you i don't know if it was on the pod that i thought about you briefly briefly on the drive to work i don't know why just something random
00:09:23
Speaker
Oh no, Gordo. He's just gotta be the center of attention.
00:09:29
Speaker
We're talking about Kelsey. Go.
00:09:34
Speaker
Jesus. um And then after I thought about you on my drive, then I saw one of those multiple full car carrying vehicles and I had two of the vehicle you drive on it yeah was like that's the same color that's her yeah blue i'm like what the fuck so weird yeah anyway i don't know what it means probably that should have texted you as soon as i got to work because maybe we were supposed to be talking about something it's like that yeah i read that book that was like if you run into someone you were just thinking about them like maybe you're meant to
00:10:10
Speaker
talk to them because they got something to tell you or whatever. So it's just like, ah, you gotta be so open. But yeah, it's so weird when that happens. You're like, wait, what? I thought it was wild. i was like, what are the chances?
00:10:24
Speaker
like this I even know they made anymore. specifically gets... Yeah, they... like They've had a few new songs that are getting played on the radio. They have a new album. Yeah. I don't think I've listened to much of it but... Yeah, I think I was Googling them when somebody...
00:10:48
Speaker
Canadian podcaster mentioned like Chantal Krevyatsek or something and the other people were like who and I'm like wait what and I was like isn't she the married to the early peace guy or something anyway aine is it like Rain Maida is that his name or something I think his name is Rain something yeah yeah ah sometimes get him confused with Trent Reznor doesn't matter yeah yeah like synchronicities is that what that's called Oh, totally. Yeah.
00:11:19
Speaker
Yeah, because sometimes they're just too weird. And you're like, coincidence? I think not. Yeah, I was like, oh, the first time I noticed the sign and then start thinking about the origins of the band name Our Lady piece, and then they start playing on the radio. I'm like, what happened?
00:11:35
Speaker
and I manifest this? but I was like, what is going on? And I like pull into my driveway and the song's ending. I was like, that was bizarre. Like, should we buy concert tickets? Yeah. I don't know. Yeah. Should I buy a lottery ticket?
00:11:51
Speaker
Win the lottery.
00:11:55
Speaker
Yeah. I thought it was interesting. I was like, oh, that's really weird. If we go viral, I'll feel like I've won the lottery. Yeah. Yeah. be all right what have you got for us today i i must know have
00:12:15
Speaker
oh how did i this came up on one of the listicles somewhere you looked up listicles i don't think i looked up any i just came to mind so no I had a really hard time finding a case actually I bounced around between a couple I thought about covering and then I swear this was your topic idea I know i don't know why it was so hard it literally took me four tries of hours of googling each time to yeah try and find cases that yeah because sometimes it's vague yeah
00:12:56
Speaker
say like Yeah, are you reading and you're like, well, that's not really... Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, the recent whining crime I listened to today was, um, he had it come in crimes.
00:13:09
Speaker
And I was like, yeah, what do you Google when you're just looking for something like that? Who knows? Yeah, this one, say he has it, has it coming. I mean, I don't, I don't know if he necessarily had to...
00:13:22
Speaker
ah to this extent but he had something coming because oh gosh he's scum he's a scumbag but he had another thing coming okay yeah so this is the story of maria barbella like the name barbella yeah that's cool sounds like a cool wrestler i don't know
00:13:51
Speaker
and she was an italian immigrant and this is a long time ago by the way her family had made their way to the u.s from italy back in 1892 see oh wow yeah we're going back in time Jeez, okay.
00:14:12
Speaker
I'm there. Yeah, so they moved from Italy to the U.S. in 1892, and they settle with her parents, and she has some siblings in the Little Italy neighborhood in New York City.
00:14:27
Speaker
Oh, I like it when they have little neighborhoods like that. Like, there's ah neighborhoods like that in our city. There's a Little Italy and, like, a Chinatown, I think. I used to live near little Italy one, so that one I do know for sure. but Yeah.
00:14:43
Speaker
That's cute.
00:14:46
Speaker
So Maria worked, it said, 60 hour weeks as boy seamstress, and she would walk home from her job and pass this little shoeshine stand that was owned Domenico Cataldo, want to say.
00:15:06
Speaker
Toretto. Oh, nope. Dominic Toretto. Not that dumb. We're family. ah
00:15:18
Speaker
No, it's... Yeah, Domenico Cataldo, I want to say. hu okay. It could be Cataldo. I feel like Cataldo sounds more Italian. Cataldo!
00:15:34
Speaker
okay Yeah.
00:15:37
Speaker
At the time, Barbarella, where Maria, was 24, and Cataldo was 29. And they began talking, kind of, as she would walk her way past, headed home, and probably on her way to work, they might talk as well.
00:15:57
Speaker
And he was also an immigrant that had come over from Italy, so Because it wasn't really like said too often. so i didn't realize the first time I was reading the case that Maria didn't speak really English at all.
00:16:15
Speaker
So I think having also like finding another person from Italy probably made her more comfortable and was somebody to talk to. hmm.
00:16:27
Speaker
Yeah, because she wouldn't have been speaking much English at this point. And he, I guess at some point, decided to start walking her home. And they would talk.
00:16:39
Speaker
He told her about his dreams of opening a barbershop and eventually getting married. And she she loved that, I guess, and was like, marry me.
00:16:51
Speaker
Great. He's laying on the charm. Yeah, great. passing all the charisma checks and all that yeah um one uh one red flag i would say is that he would walk her most of the way to her house but always made sure not to walk her all the way in order to avoid meeting her family okay That seems less like you care about her safety then. Yeah, I've been like, I'll just walk from like two blocks away. I'll just watch.
00:17:29
Speaker
Oh, really? Not to your door? no Okay. So Maria's family, they didn't like Dominico.
00:17:42
Speaker
Um... It took them a while to finally be able to meet him They had asked to meet him multiple times and he always made excuses to avoid them. And Maria tried to keep it a secret that they were walking together um and that they were still seeing each other all the time, but her parents found out and again kept asking to meet him.
00:18:05
Speaker
Yeah, okay, that's fair. Yeah. Eventually, ah they must have met at some point, because it said after the Barbarella family, sorry, Barbella family met Cataldo, ah her father told her that she was not allowed to see him again, so... Okay. Dad really didn't like him.
00:18:30
Speaker
bad vibes.
00:18:34
Speaker
Ugh. Alright. He's like, after one meeting, he's done. Yeah. So I don't know what exactly happened during that. And Maria did end up listening to her dad.
00:18:45
Speaker
She began even walking a different way home in her or in order to avoid that shoeshine stand that he worked at. Wow. But it said that he was really persistent and he would not leave her alone and would track her down, find out where she was.
00:19:04
Speaker
um find out which way she was walking, I guess. and Yeah, we used to call that person aggressively romantic. Now we are a little less complimentary of this thing. Don't take no for an answer.
00:19:18
Speaker
you know, I totally grew up with the stuff that's like... Yeah, you had to her out 37 times before she finally said yes? Well... Cool. I guess it's great that your parents have been married for 40 some years, but your dad had to ask her out 30 times.
00:19:33
Speaker
It is hard not to put yourself in those little shoes. Yeah, yeah. But then it's like just the romance movies that I feel like I grew up with where it was just like... Absolutely. Oh, well, you don't like me. Well, I find that hot. And you're just like, okay. And then you're like, well, that is kind of hot. Like, it's kind of the, I don't know, sometimes it's the will they won't they but like, yeah, they definitely very much push the um like enemies to lovers kind of yeah trope. I don't know.
00:20:06
Speaker
It's interesting.
00:20:09
Speaker
ah Yeah, so despite the request of her family, Maria eventually began seeing Dominico again. And despite him pursuing Maria, he acted abusive towards her and it said he was also very unkind.
00:20:27
Speaker
and
00:20:30
Speaker
uh not a good trigger warning for this at some point during their time together it said that he gave maria a drink that had drugs in it or it was drugged and he ended up sexually assaulting her while she was unconscious oh wow so they ray dropp yeah i mean just to call it what it is i guess sorry yeah yeah that sucks yeah so i guess this was like um yeah like her virginity and everything so that was really hard shit at the time because like this is the 1920s um think it is hold on I'm trying to find a date other than 1892 it's like oh no do I have a single other year in here hold on ah it was the raping 20s is that what you're telling me oh no
00:21:30
Speaker
Oh, they settled in 1892. So I don't know exactly when this happened, but yeah. Which is... Yeah, really bad.
00:21:42
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. um When Maria finally came to, she
Public Outcry and Retrial of Maria Barbella
00:21:47
Speaker
was horrified, embarrassed, and even afraid to go home and tell her parents what had happened.
00:21:53
Speaker
So instead, she confronted...
00:21:59
Speaker
Just told me I lost connection. And it's back. Oh, it didn't do anything Is it still weird? Okay. Scary. I know, I think we're good.
00:22:11
Speaker
Instead, she confronted Catalado, I don't know. Yeah. Catalado, who promised to marry her as soon as he found them a place to live together.
00:22:26
Speaker
So that dragged out a little bit as he kept saying, oh yeah, we'll get married, I'll find a place for us to live. Well, he eventually did one of those things. He did find them a place to live and they moved in together. But as time went on, he was making no signs to follow through on the promise of them getting married. Ugh, tale as old as time.
00:22:52
Speaker
Maria kept begging him to keep his promise, trying to salvage her honor and reputation.
00:23:01
Speaker
because he had freaking assaulted her and it's pre 1900. So, oh yeah. So now she's soiled goods. Of course. Yeah. She's damaged and no man will ever, ever find any abuse of her.
00:23:17
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:22
Speaker
So ah Maria found out during this time that Dominico was seeing other women. and he then, yeah, you changed his story at that point about what his plans were for their future.
00:23:42
Speaker
He told her that he couldn't marry her anymore and that he would actually find another man ah that she could marry. Like, ah Okay. Yeah.
00:23:55
Speaker
Is this feudal times? Like, well, the king will make sure you marry again. don't want to. weird. It said, according to Maria, he said, quote, I'll find you a young man willing to marry you.
00:24:10
Speaker
I'll tell him you're a widow. I'll buy you a black dress and you'll marry him because I want you to Then I'll come back to visit you while he's at work. Gross.
00:24:23
Speaker
No, thank you. You'd be like, thanks for the idea. I'll just pretend I'm a widow by myself and you don't need to be involved in that. Like...
00:24:36
Speaker
I'll pretend to be a widow all by myself. Seriously? That's the only way you can salvage your honor in this situation is to pretend you have a dead husband? for it. Like...
00:24:51
Speaker
It was rough. It'd be rough out there.
00:24:55
Speaker
Wild. ah That's not the worst thing. So Maria discovered even more secrets that Dominico was keeping from her. ah Mostly that he already had a wife and children back in Italy.
00:25:11
Speaker
Okay. Wait, where are they now? They're in New York. Oh, yeah. Yeah. my Little Italy. Vapenopoli!
00:25:24
Speaker
What the fuck?
00:25:28
Speaker
Yeah, he was already married. he already had kids back in Italy. So he was presumably just in the U.S. trying to make money
00:25:39
Speaker
I don't know exactly when this happened, but he also told her that he had purchased a one-way ticket to move back to Italy to be with them, and he was going to be leaving. So he's like, we can't get married anymore. I'm not going to be here.
00:25:50
Speaker
I'll be back in Italy. oh my god, I knew it when you said he wouldn't marry her right away. i was just like, tale as fucking old as time, because he won't leave her.
00:26:03
Speaker
And I didn't even know there was a her yet. Yeah. There didn't even know. Just had that vibe. but ohm like, oh, God. This feels like drama on the latest season of Love is Blind. No.
00:26:17
Speaker
haven't been watching that lately. I'm fine.
00:26:24
Speaker
ah Obviously, like hearing this news, Maria became enraged. And ah she once again was begging Dominico to marry her.
00:26:37
Speaker
and they their argument at this point, I guess, it was happening at her house. It was becoming so loud that Maria's mother came to the door and Dominico ended up, like, storming out of the house.
00:26:50
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. I also saw on a couple sources that the mom interrupting had uh like in response to that dominico said okay i'll marry her if you guys pay me it was like something like 200 or something then i'll marry your daughter what yeah and then when they declined that or whatever he stormed out so i'm not too sure but okay bro what the hell right
00:27:23
Speaker
yeah no you can't i'm like this is a terrible story this is sister wives what do you what does he think yeah right and then he's like no i'll marry whatever okay i mean it's 1892 or something around that time so they probably couldn't figure out he had a wife in italy but well that's just it easier to be uh a comment yes yeah yeah because definitely the communication was not instant and between place to play right none of that damn um so what happens next there's also multiple versions of so
00:28:14
Speaker
One of the versions is either right after storming out or kind of the next day or something around that time, Dominico goes to a local bar where Maria tracks him down.
00:28:30
Speaker
And she finds him at the card table playing cards with some friends. And she goes up to him and confronts him again. in public, she demands that he marries her.
00:28:43
Speaker
And he replies one of two things, either only pigs marry or that only only a pig will marry you.
00:28:54
Speaker
Not exactly sure. Most of the things I read said only pigs marry, which doesn't make sense. We need the reality TV tapes. Run the tapes! ah Yeah, right? Real housewives, I guess. Yeah.
00:29:10
Speaker
what the fuck that's so disrespectful yeah only pigs marry but you're already married that's what i don't get you're already yeah it must have been just something to that effect especially derogatory towards her like i could i could see that only pigs would marry you or something to that effect Yeah, which is, that's the first thing I read in my first couple's verses that said only only a pig will marry you. And then the rest of my sources said only pigs marry.
00:29:48
Speaker
not too sure, but something about Yeah, I mean, only if I was pig. And everyone just misremembered the exact wording or whatever. Yeah. ah what happens next is ah hearing this, Maria pulls out a straight razor and fucking cuts his throat in the middle of the bar.
00:30:11
Speaker
Let me just give you a little shave and a haircut.
00:30:17
Speaker
I was reading the case and i was like, oh damn. I was not expecting her to do that in a public bar in front of like 30 people. That's the saying, hell hath no fury. Yeah.
00:30:30
Speaker
Oh my god. um So that's kind of the first version that happens. Other versions say that Maria grabbed his head and like pulled his neck back to expose his throat and like deliberately slit his throat from to Much like he might do a pig. Yeah, literally the sentence ends like a slaughtered pig. Yeah.
00:30:56
Speaker
I couldn't help myself. Damn, that's horrific, though. Honestly, horrifyingly traumatic. Can you imagine this woman just comes up to your friend, you're playing cards in a bar, and just like they get in an argument, she just pulls out a razor and cuts his throat, and it's like, okay, now what?
00:31:15
Speaker
I know, it sounds like a movie. And it's and Yeah. tv doesn't exist Yeah, yeah, yeah. And we thought in the Wild West was 14. You're not desensitized yet?
00:31:27
Speaker
Yeah, but this was crazy. Yeah. ha Apparently, other versions say that the injury was an accident or an act of self-defense and not meant to be fatal at all.
00:31:42
Speaker
I do have it later on. Apparently, they said that Dominico had pulled out a knife um before Maria slit his throat with a razor she happened to be carrying with her for some reason.
00:31:55
Speaker
but Her friend said that. Yeah, I don't know. um Sorry. Yeah. So...
00:32:09
Speaker
Maria had slit his throat in plain sight in front of a bar full of witnesses. It's because Earl had to die.
00:32:24
Speaker
and They watched as Domenico stumbled out of the bar. i guess he was able to like get up and like stumble out of the bar where he collapsed in the street and died.
00:32:40
Speaker
Shit, dramatic. But, yeah, like... ah Apparently Maria went straight home. She tried to change her clothes.
00:32:51
Speaker
ah But she was like... I mean, she did it in front of a bunch of witnesses. So she was found and arrested right away for his murder. Yeah, I wonder if everyone was just standing there kind of like dumbfounded as to... I'd be pretty shocked.
00:33:07
Speaker
I mean... yeah
00:33:11
Speaker
There's a lot of horrified bystanders
Tim McLean's Tragic Story
00:33:13
Speaker
and in my case that also probably did not know what to do. Yeah. Yeah. You always think you would know what to do if something was happening, but... Yeah, there's a brave few who actually try something. Yeah.
00:33:33
Speaker
Yeah. And this one, nobody attempted to save his life, so... but Yeah, that sounds a bit... Hardly care. Yeah, yeah I'm not too sure, like, what is friend slot or anything. I don't really have any background about that kind of stuff.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah, sometimes it's hard to find. After Maria Barbella was arrested and taken into custody, she was booked under the wrong name.
00:34:04
Speaker
She was booked under Barberry. barbari a barbarian and car areber not burberary barberry barberry
00:34:19
Speaker
barberry movie uh she was held for months obviously waiting for her trial which took place from july 11th to july 15th in 1895 wow yeah was just like wow this is a great old case Okay, so we still haven't cracked the 1900s, which we weren't sure of earlier, think. No, sorry.
00:34:47
Speaker
I think I thought that she was born in 1892, but no, that's when they moved, and she was already basically 24 at that time. So I i made that more confusing.
00:35:02
Speaker
So at her trial, the judge that she had appointed two inexperienced lawyers to defend Maria... And these lawyers only met with her once, I guess, and it said that they didn't prepare at all for her upcoming trial.
00:35:17
Speaker
So that sucks.
00:35:21
Speaker
That's not what lawyers are supposed to do. No. They should be the most prepared. like ka Yeah, a little bit.
00:35:32
Speaker
I do have some information from encyclopedia.com. They had, like, some... They got information from it Encyclopedia and Ranker.
00:35:43
Speaker
was like, oh, I like this. ah Random. Yeah, I thought it was really weird. ah So from Encyclopedia, it said prosecutors accused ah Maria of murdering Cataldo...
00:35:59
Speaker
ah catala little mar dominico i'm gonna keep him calling him dominico for ruining her reputation and to gain access to the 825 in his bank account like was that had to be or her motive right because after murder you totally get access to somebody's bank account Like it's a video game, all their money just like explodes into the air and you can just collect it.
00:36:30
Speaker
but Wait, that wasn't wife then? No. Huh? I said that wasn't a wife that would collect the money. you said I don't know. It just said that the prosecutors accused Maria of murdering him for ruining her reputation and to gain access to his bank account.
00:36:50
Speaker
Which made no sense to me. Right, because if she's not like If that's not her husband or something, why would she, yeah, why would she get the bank account? Yeah, i don't know.
00:37:02
Speaker
It doesn't make sense to me. I'm so tired. My brain.
00:37:10
Speaker
This theory assumed that it was a premeditated plan, so Maria was charged with a capital offense, a first-degree murder. And when her trial began on July 11th, the defense presented a different view of Maria's behavior.
00:37:26
Speaker
They accused Dominico of being a cad with a disrespectful or distasteful record of seducing young women. and You know what?
00:37:39
Speaker
CAD is our short form for Canadian dollars. No, it's not. is not.
00:37:50
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. It's a trap. Anyway. It's not C-A-N? Isn't that short for Canadian dollars? Maybe. I don't know. Because USD is American. I thought it was C-A-N for CAD.
00:38:08
Speaker
Canada! Yeah. We have a lot of different weird like codes and stuff in the travel department. Maybe I'm misremembering, but my brain might be done for the week. I'm so sorry.
00:38:25
Speaker
When Maria pleaded with him to marry her, his reply was derisive. Yeah. Yeah. That's what the is saying.
00:38:41
Speaker
and driven into a rage by his words she had killed him and since the rage provoked a spontaneous act there was no ah premeditation that's what the defence is saying And the defense asked that their client be charged with second degree murder, which was not a capital defense.
00:39:00
Speaker
But the judge, John Goff, denied the motion. So she's still being charged with first degree murder.
00:39:10
Speaker
Oh. She could be charged with her sentence to death. Yeah, not good. not good No, they did like to hang people back in the day.
00:39:24
Speaker
Yeah. When at trial ah she was badgered, it said, by the prosecution while she was trying to take the stand and while attempting to tell her side of the story, her words were poorly translated by the court appointed translator that repeated what she was saying in a monotone and dull voice and ah they said it just wasn't um like beneficial to her it seemed like she was very detached and emotionless but that's not how she was communicating her own words it's just how the translator was translating them right was really literally lost in translation yeah all of the emotion and everything like that was just gone it was just being repeated
00:40:11
Speaker
being repeated Yeah, and like when you get subtitles that apparently don't say the same things. But then sometimes you can least see the lake body language and maybe kind of get that context. Yeah. yeah The judge went on to exclude evidence as well that was in favor of Maria, such as what I mentioned that Dominico had reached for a knife.
00:40:37
Speaker
And the judge had also discouraged the jury from showing her any mercy. um i think I saw stuff saying that he had kind of been like, oh, you can't, um like, don't let the fact that she's a woman dissuade you, and um that she said she was, ah may have been abused by him. Don't don't take that into account. like The judge did?
00:41:06
Speaker
Yeah, the judge was had multiple quotes. He had a whole paragraph-long thing that I cut out that was, like, brutal. Sir. ah Yeah, this is a person. You don't view them, like, basically with gender. Don't take that into account. Like...
00:41:23
Speaker
Yeah, it was wild. What? Okay. Yeah, and I guess she had no no women on her jury, and then there was... okay, of course not.
00:41:36
Speaker
Yeah, I think I read that um in one of the sources. Yeah, her jury was also not good, so... Yeah, that whole getting a jury of your peers is... Yeah, it wasn't happening. Yeah.
00:41:52
Speaker
lot of times it really doesn't, I guess. It's like, oh my god. um More from encyclopedia.com said that the prosecution relentlessly asked Maria why she had stayed with a man possessing such a reprehensible or such reprehensible morals.
00:42:10
Speaker
Yeah, fuck off. She had...
00:42:14
Speaker
She replied that she loved him and Maria continued to insist that she wanted to marry him, not murder him, and that she actually had no memory of the attack itself.
00:42:28
Speaker
And... Oh no. Yeah, that she... lying. She has a reason for it that I don't know if we'll ever know is true or not, but... Gordo, what come up?
00:42:46
Speaker
i could go get out Gordo yeah also smells like you pooped and there's stuff on your you and smell you have smelly butt you have a stinky bum you're so fluffy particles yeah
00:43:05
Speaker
oh Okay, so Maria's mother testified that she too had begged Dominico to marry, said marry the girl, ah marry Maria and restore her honor.
00:43:18
Speaker
ah oh this is where I had it. Dominico said Miss Barbella had laughed and didn' demanded $200 before he would do such a thing.
00:43:29
Speaker
That's where I had it. I was like, I knew I had it somehow.
00:43:33
Speaker
um So she said that at the trial. for Say it. I'm sorry. Say it again. um The mom, Maria's mom, is saying at the trial that um they had gotten in an argument and that Maria had begged...
00:43:51
Speaker
Like him to marry her and that he had demanded $200 to marry her. To marry her. Right. Yeah. Sorry. That's so fucked up.
00:44:04
Speaker
I demand a niaella dowry. what? Like, no I don't think he would ever have gone through with it, but...
00:44:17
Speaker
He already had a plane ticket booked. So, you know what? He would have taken that $200 and just flown home. Back to Italy. Wait, is there planes now? Okay. Yeah, it said he had a plane ticket.
00:44:30
Speaker
Shit. Okay. Okay.
00:44:34
Speaker
On July 11th, or sorry, July 18th, after only 45 minutes of deliberation, Maria Barbella was found guilty of first-degree murder and was sentenced to death by electrocution.
00:44:50
Speaker
Because the electric chair was a brand new invention, and it was so much more humane than hanging people. No! They're both only humane if done correctly.
00:45:06
Speaker
which I feel like is very very impossible much like most sorry methods of execution I can't talk a lot of stuff you've seen the green vial that's fucked up when that guy doesn't get the sponge wet and so he gets all fucking fried it's horrible that fucked me up when I first read that book
00:45:34
Speaker
Oh yeah, i had I have a story from Rancor about that. Oh god. So a bunch of stuff when you're looking up this story ah credits Maria as being the first woman in the United States condemned to die in the electric chair.
00:45:52
Speaker
ah But she, if you, one of the sources actually named the woman that was the first, so I googled her separately and it was like five years before this.
00:46:04
Speaker
So I think that's more accurate is that she's the second woman in the United States that was condemned to die the electric chair that was a new invention at the time. um Sure.
00:46:15
Speaker
Maria was taken to the famous Sing Sing prison in upstate New York. Oh, I have heard of it. Yeah. Apparently she became a notable figure and received preferential treatment.
00:46:30
Speaker
ah Most stuff kind of like ended it at that, but only one source kind of mentioned that that may have been because she was, might have been the first and only female inmate.
00:46:42
Speaker
Like, so. Yeah, so that's maybe. Yeah. no Yeah, like, maybe that's why she was so noticeable and, like, received preferential treatment. It's because she was the only woman, but I'm not sure on that one.
00:46:58
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But it did say that her cell... Well, she can't go pee with the rest of you. Yeah, no, I don't know. Yeah. but um It did say that her cell was actually bigger than her apartment that she had in the city. wow.
00:47:13
Speaker
Which... Doesn't say much for New York living. Right? I was like, is this a good thing or is this a dunk on New York City living? We all know friends is not an accurate representation. No, but I was just like, damn, you got to go to prison to get a bigger apartment in New York City. Yeah. Savage.
00:47:36
Speaker
Oh, God. I heard it's getting rough here, too, in our city. That's big city living for you. either They're putting up all those skinny house guinea homes. You can put two on a lot instead of one.
00:47:49
Speaker
They're putting so many of those in my neighborhood. like demolishing all the old rundown homes and like putting two in its place. Yeah. wow. Wow. They kind of look like, I don't know, like detached condos. Like it's basically like three floors, but everything is like very skinny. It's like if you, don't know, stacked like maybe a trailer, like it's kind of only the width of maybe a bit bigger than a trailer, and but it's like three floors. yeah ah Your main one's got, main one's got like your living room and kitchen and then upstairs, there's an upstairs and then another floor.
00:48:30
Speaker
like I don't know if they have basements. but There was that children's book that was some sort of very tall school it's like wayward sideways sideways stories from wayside school sideways stories yeah i'm like wayward because it was supposed to be built 31 rooms across one it was supposed to be built or yeah instead it was built 31 single classrooms on top of each other vertically yeah
00:49:04
Speaker
Yeah. And there was, I loved that book. There was a girl that couldn't, ah couldn't count properly. would just list random numbers, but then she would, if she was like counting to 10, she'd be like, one, 183, 1749. But then she would get 10 at the end and be like, she'd be like, but I got the answer right. they're like, but you did all the steps wrong. She's like, but I got the answer right. Like,
00:49:30
Speaker
and ah Yeah, I remember it was wacky. I was like, what? This book is weird. There was also a boy that could only do math or could only read ah sitting on his head.
00:49:45
Speaker
Like, oh basically upside down. He could only read upside down. was fun. They actually... i do i was i owned the book i was obsessed with it and they uh they for a short while made it into a tv show which i loved as well oh that's so everything was like yeah made into a kid's cartoon out when i was a kid i'm sure there wasn't a show that's no no uh yeah anyway um yeah parents are sideways diversion
00:50:20
Speaker
Yeah, so apparently her cell is bigger than her apartment that she was living in with Dominico. And i guess while she was in prison, the warden's wife took an interest in her and actually began helping her learn and like teaching her English so that she um would better be able to like communicate and everything, which I thought was nice.
00:50:44
Speaker
That's good. ah She apparently became a bit of a celebrity... oh excuse me sorry became a bit of a celebrity i should have tried to look up a picture but apparently dolls were even made in her image in new york and sold maybe don't know that i thought was so weird um because i could barely find pictures of maria to begin with so i'm like i don't know if i can find a picture of this doll that's supposed to look like her yeah stop it
00:51:15
Speaker
that's fair
00:51:18
Speaker
American Girl Dolls.
00:51:21
Speaker
Yeah, prison inmate.
00:51:25
Speaker
Prison inmate Patty. Yeah. Hey, Gordo. Gordo. She's close to being done, buddy. I am. Just stop.
00:51:41
Speaker
Yes. these have literally been on the wall for four years there aren't new you gotta play with them every time oh i love it that sounds like when fenrir sounds like he's talking back when we like let him inside like stop your barking and he's like but we're like shut up they just being in a dick um Her case captured the attention of women's advocates, notably Elizabeth Caddy Stanton.
00:52:15
Speaker
I don't know who that is. i And calls for a second trial were gaining in popularity on the grounds that Maria had not been treated fairly, that evidence had been suppressed, and that excluding, or sorry, excluding, executing a woman by electric chair would be immoral.
00:52:38
Speaker
Excluding her from life, essentially. Yeah, I was like, why did I say excluding? Executing. Nice. Oh my gosh. You motherfucker! Okay, we're leaving. Get out. Get out.
00:52:55
Speaker
Get out.
00:53:01
Speaker
So annoying. ah wait, you're all wireless, though. You didn't have to throw down your earbuds and distaste. I barely even noticed.
00:53:13
Speaker
Oh, my God. um What was he doing? Yes. ah He was trying to, like, climb on the shelves there, starting at bottom. like, scratching at whatever's on the bottom shelf there.
00:53:26
Speaker
Oh, yeah. ah So this is where I had from Ranker, ah they had a nice little description ah that the use of the electric chair had only been carried out on men, and it was considered to be more humane than hanging.
00:53:46
Speaker
But when William Kemmler was executed in 1890 in Buffalo, New York, he was shocked for 11 seconds and had smoke coming out of his head.
00:53:58
Speaker
But after examination, he was actually still alive. Oh my god. This what I'm talking about. It's the horrific scene in the Green Mile. Oh my god. Yeah. Awful. It took a second shock to kill him.
00:54:14
Speaker
ah Okay, but also that can happen in hanging too I just want to point out If you don't directly snap their neck the first time They're gonna strangle very slowly i think the thing i i don't have it here So it wasn't from Ranker But it was one of the other sources I read That talked about the same time um They said that the second shock That they administered to him Was like over a minute long like oh which is awful like that's a he's a real taser face now yeah yeah
00:54:54
Speaker
uh yeah so that's a little thing i mean we could get into the history of electric chairs i'm sure that's plenty fucked up but execution right there yeah yeah oh no even just like death rituals and stuff can be so fascinating throughout time and culture you know oh yeah um
00:55:20
Speaker
ah So back, I guess, word back got back about Maria's case all the way back to Italy, where Cora Slocum, an American who had gotten married to an Italian count, ended up making the trip to the US to visit Maria while she was incarcerated.
00:55:42
Speaker
And it must have been a nice meeting and they probably got along because ah Cora Slocum ended up hiring Maria, some better attorneys um than what was appointed in her first trial.
00:55:58
Speaker
And they also started a petition and were working to get and help Maria appeal her case and her conviction. Okay.
00:56:09
Speaker
Yeah. um Maria was eventually granted second trial, which took place from November to December 10th 1896.
00:56:25
Speaker
And the Court of Appeals granted her this second trial because of the questions regarding her original appointed legal counsel. um How I said they were both inexperienced and then they hadn't really prepared for it, had only met with her once for such like, she's on like considering a death penalty and you only met with her once.
00:56:46
Speaker
like Yeah, i don't know how it was back in the day, but that doesn't seem great. Yeah. yeah and there's two of them uh they also took into question the impartial impartiality of the judge saying um just with the comments that they had made that basically seemed crazy ah
00:57:10
Speaker
i should have kept it in but it was like so rambly like multiple paragraphs long and i was like i don't even want to read this like this person just sucks and Just filibustering, yeah, on the stand. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. blah at her new trial, her new york new lawyers claimed that she had sliced Domenico's throat during an epileptic attack and that she hadn't intended to kill him.
00:57:39
Speaker
Yeah, I thought that was a little weird. I was like, oh. She had too many Twinkies that day. It's the Twinkie defense. I was like, oh, where did that come from?
00:57:51
Speaker
But I guess...
00:57:54
Speaker
um i guess they may have i don't really know and i would i think it'd be interesting i don't think we'll ever find out for sure or not if this is true but um ranker had the best information about it saying that maria's defense really played up the idea of mental illness and alcoholism that ran in her family And when Maria testified, the fact that she had learned English by this time had made it much easier for the jury to hear from the defendant herself that she in fact didn't remember killing Domenico due to memory loss associated with an epi epileptic attack.
00:58:37
Speaker
And she told them, quote, sometimes I feel a machine in my head and the pain is so great I cannot stand it.
00:58:50
Speaker
so they also said there might have been a history of like epileptic attacks there was a history of alcoholism there was history of other mental illness there was histories of like suicides in her family ah okay but before that was that we know about like I don't know. Nothing that they talk about.
00:59:20
Speaker
that, I guess. Out of the blue. yeah I mean, she says in her quote that sometimes I feel like a machine, I feel a machine in my head and the pain is so great I cannot stand it.
00:59:35
Speaker
But yeah, nothing about like the frequency or when they started or what might have been causing it. right like i drink so much that when don't all of a sudden i have these weird seizures like what okay uh the jury in maria's second trial found her not guilty after deliberating for 40 minutes so in first trial they found her guilty after 45 minutes now they find her not guilty after 40 minutes I mean, really, with the testimony from people from the the bar or whatever it was?
01:00:12
Speaker
That's crazy.
01:00:15
Speaker
um I don't know. Didn't talk about that. I don't know who... Yeah, I imagine the trials were a little different, too. yeah ah She did end up obviously getting released from prison.
01:00:29
Speaker
um we don't know much more ah about her other than that ah less than a year after being released, she married Francisco Paolo Bruno.
01:00:40
Speaker
a man from the same village, I guess she had grown up in Italy. Okay. And afterwards, she just, like, after that marriage, that's the last week thing we know about her. She just disappeared from public life, and we have no other updates or information. I'll assume that means she... She's 140 years that.
01:01:01
Speaker
She lives
01:01:05
Speaker
ah yeah she lives on forever Wow. Yeah, it was like, interesting. Yeah, second woman, I guess, condemned to the electric chair, sliced a man's the throat, opened in a pub in front of a bunch of people.
01:01:26
Speaker
And then got off. ah like Yeah, got away with it. was like, oh, damn. Crazy. Yeah. I can't even remember what she's mad at him about now. I'm just like, wait, what?
01:01:42
Speaker
He refused to marry her and then he had drugged and raped her. So, I mean... Well, oh yeah, there was that little thing. Can't forget that. it wasn't just an argument. He was... He refused to marry her.
01:01:54
Speaker
He was a scumbag. Okay. Oh, and yeah, that's right. The date rape drug. Right. Yeah. That's why I'm like, oh... shit said he drugged her drink and then she fell unconscious and he i mean like yeah drugs of things have been able to render you pretty i guess unconscious and stuff long before we had prescription drugs that's what i was like oh he he deserved it and then it was like well maybe he didn't deserve to die but he deserved something
01:02:27
Speaker
yeah yeah she got her revenge i'd say i yeah don't know good for her i guess but yeah wonder wonder what his wife back in italy thought of all this his wife and kids oh i forgot if there was other kids oh that sucks yeah like have no idea This one's for all you out there who had shitty dads.
01:03:00
Speaker
Elon Musk's kids, I'm looking at you. Doesn't he have like 15 kids? I did not know he had that many kids. Oh yeah, it's over 10 at least. thought he honestly just had...
01:03:12
Speaker
i thought he honestly just had yeah Oh yeah, yeah. I thought i he literally just had a couple. And then I saw something. With like each woman.
01:03:24
Speaker
I was like, Elon Musk welcomes 15th child. And was like, wait, hold on. i
01:03:30
Speaker
Yeah, and the fucker, his like first girlfriend or whatever that he lost the first child with was Canadian. I just want to point out. Not that I'm making, there's nothing, you know, that that's traumatic.
01:03:44
Speaker
whatever happens like that it was born and then it died very shortly like early on from SIDS but like fuck you for coming after Canada is all I have to say and and for coming after your trans kid fuck you like yeah he just seems like a scumbag I I get happy every time I saw something that said he had lost like $15 billion dollars or something because of oh the Tesla stock. And i was like, oh, nice. like Yes.
01:04:15
Speaker
Well, you know, Misha Collins from Supernatural, um Castiel, yeah. he yeah ah He had a thing on Instagram today where he was like, had an accident with his Tesla. And then he was like, am I going to buy another Tesla? And then he was like, Nope. And then he was like driving this old, like red, i don't know, pickup truck. was like, good for you.
01:04:37
Speaker
It was cute. Yeah. okay Yes. Everybody's doing their part.
01:04:44
Speaker
Right.
01:04:48
Speaker
uh that was that was great though that was thank you i hadn't heard of this before i thought it was had some interesting aspects yeah damn love an old-timey case um yeah i thought that was they can be hard i was like oh yeah you found a lot of good info yeah Yeah, it was hard to research. A lot of stuff ended up being behind paywalls or you had to do subscriptions too. Usepapers.com. Yeah.
01:05:19
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I'm sure there's a lot more information out there, but I couldn't track it down. i I tried. Yeah. Some of them, like with mine, I was like, oh, you can get a bunch of like news updates, but it's mostly like the legal side or whatever. And then you're like, I want some context, like some background. And then I found another Canadian podcast that covered mine. So then I was like okay, i don't you guys do good research. You know, like you just, you tend to know who you can trust for sources and stuff. So I guess we'll, we'll get to that one. Yeah. Sometimes this case is called like the woman of Sing Sing or something like that. So yeah, she must've been a notable like inmate. If like maybe one of the only women,
01:06:09
Speaker
um That were there, because it seems to the prison, um when you look up her thing, she's almost always associated with that prison. So, yeah. She was almost the second lady executed.
01:06:28
Speaker
ah Right? Yeah, it said, like, the... That's so funny. she I don't think any woman had been executed at all yet. The one had been convicted and had been sentenced to be executed, but was still awaiting no...
01:06:44
Speaker
um and no when
01:07:05
Speaker
um yeah martha m place was an american murderer and the first woman to die in the electric chair she was executed on march 20th 1899 so three three years after maria's second trial so they would have but just been like on death row
01:07:29
Speaker
Hey, bestie.
Vince Li: Mental Health and Legal Proceedings
01:07:30
Speaker
You on death row? Yeah, bitch.
01:07:36
Speaker
Oh, crazy. Yeah. All right. Well, for you guys, we'll be right back after these messages. but Yeah, a promo from Darkass Network podcast of some theme and or name.
01:07:56
Speaker
We don't know. I know. Yeah, clearly you've put it in already. and know yeah clearly you've put it in already
01:08:19
Speaker
There are over 200,000 unsolved homicides in United States justice system right now. And many of those cases haven't seen the light of day in years, decades in some instances.
01:08:35
Speaker
The case files and evidence are sitting in a box on a dusty shelf in a basement, forgotten by law enforcement and the media, while the families and friends left behind wait for answers and fight for justice.
01:08:49
Speaker
Sometimes there is nobody left to remember or to speak up on behalf of the victim. I'm Arlene. And I'm Leah. And that is exactly what Box in the Basement sets out to do.
01:09:02
Speaker
To shine a light on those forgotten victims and to bring attention to unsolved murders and disappearances. We want to help families tell their stories. And we want to assist the families and friends of victims find the resources and support they need to continue their fight for justice.
01:09:18
Speaker
Join us every Thursday for new episodes of Box in the Basement wherever you find your podcasts.
01:09:40
Speaker
Well, welcome back.
01:09:44
Speaker
It's part two and it's ah a little time has passed on our end. Yeah.
01:09:53
Speaker
If we sound a little different. Anyway.
01:09:58
Speaker
a We wanted to mention and we have our next Patreon coming out is going to be the topic we've picked is haunted battlefields. so yeah there was a reason we did that feel like we came to this through some something but i don't know what it was now it sounded good we love a haunted battlefield i think yeah i stood before actually so anyway if that's true i think so
01:10:34
Speaker
yeah Yay us Doing things that people like Finally getting around to it Yeah And I'm sure there'll be some other stuff We'll be putting up there too So Come on over And We'll see you there
01:10:55
Speaker
um Yeah We are going to talk about A sad case today Of course I don't know if anybody ah outside of Canada knows it.
01:11:11
Speaker
I don't know. It's one of those that maybe you don't know a lot about it because there's not a lot of information out there other than the actual sensational headlines and that kind of stuff.
01:11:24
Speaker
Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't know which one you chose. Yeah. Okay. I thought I might have mentioned it, but... Nah.
01:11:37
Speaker
Well, the name might not be well known, but it's the death of Tim McClane. So that's the case I will be covering.
01:11:51
Speaker
And hopefully I don't sniffle too much. allergies and it's sad uh oh but no no uh we'll we'll vote on uh is alana sniffing because she's crying or sniffing because of allergies oh no
01:12:12
Speaker
um Timothy Richard McLean was born on October 3rd, 1985. He was born at the Victoria General Hospital in Winterpeg. Winnipeg.
01:12:27
Speaker
Winterpeg? I've never heard that. Oh no. thought that was fun Canadian lingo. Maybe i learned that from Pat. It is very cold. so my mom always said Winnipeg.
01:12:40
Speaker
Like winning a pig. Winning so yeah pig? Winnipeg! Well, yeah, it's bloody cold there. She's from there?
01:12:54
Speaker
Yeah. so Oh, cool. But also, yeah, so, so, so cold. when it Like, Manitoba and Saskatchewan kind of have that reputation because the prairies, the wind doesn't get blocked by anything and it just gets so cold, I guess.
01:13:09
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. My dad's from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan. okay. So he always said he was from Saskatchitoon. Aww.
01:13:24
Speaker
Yeah. The guy in that Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Saskatchitoon. Yeah. Yeah, it's like grown-ups, I think he says that. And my dad's like, hey, I came up with that first.
01:13:38
Speaker
It's like, Yeah, maybe he heard it from one of his Canadian pals. We've got some good Canadian comedians. Anyway. Just sue Adam Sandler. I like Adam Sandler.
01:13:55
Speaker
Okay. I know. Happy Gilmore 2! I haven't watched the trailer yet, but I will watch the movie. Yeah.
01:14:07
Speaker
Okay, so yeah, he lived in that cold region anyway, and he was of the Métis, what do you say, national indigenous group or whatever, he was a Métis man.
01:14:24
Speaker
um And his family, he had some different nicknames, he was known as Tim Jr. to his family, Timmy to his friends. and And specifically Joka Wilde to his ICP friends.
01:14:38
Speaker
His Juggalos, if you will. yeah Yes. Which I thought was cute. Oh, I got a lot of ah good information. Shout out to the Dark episode. ah Because he had a lot of like background, which I find a lot of sources online just don't have any of this stuff. So...
01:15:02
Speaker
I was like, yay. Thankfully, I found you know a good source that I trust, and he read a book, so I don't have to. ah Okay, yeah. God, I wish I had time to read books for some of these cases.
01:15:14
Speaker
right. The dedication. I do appreciate it. So shout out to Mike Brown from Dark Poutine. um So yeah, that were some good quotes he had, too, about...
01:15:27
Speaker
Or I got somewhere, anyway. His uncle Alex described him as a a stubborn soul and a kind one, and that he made friends effortlessly, disliked no one, and accepted everyone for who they were. That's nice.
01:15:43
Speaker
Yeah, that's really nice thing to to have said about you, for sure. had lots of friends and family in the Winnipeg and, I guess, Eli area, I think.
01:15:57
Speaker
I know if it's like nearby, actually, i'm not familiar, but somewhere out there. He was, you know, kind of the guy who had that lust for life, loved having fun, playing pranks and going out on four wheelers.
01:16:13
Speaker
But I think like dirt bikes and someone said anything that got him dirty and into trouble.
01:16:19
Speaker
Wow. i was like, okay, I know the type. Yeah. Yeah. ah Yeah. um Yeah. My dad's into some of that off-road and stuff.
01:16:32
Speaker
um His uncle also said he was a charmer who loved to smile and he could never take a plate of food from him, which I thought was pretty awesome.
01:16:43
Speaker
He had a Marvin the Martian tattoo and one of an evil clown, which was, I guess, sort of and insane clown posse inspired, like their great Malenko. I'm not...
01:16:56
Speaker
really but um no apparently it's a very um loving nice inclusive community um as he was talking about on the podcast and i was like well that's nice you don't have like yeah you're you're called the insane clown posse but your fans aren't like all insane you know like whatever was gonna say adrenaline junkies that's not the word you know, anarchists or whatever.
01:17:27
Speaker
Yeah, I think it's like a band. I think it's just a band. Yeah. Yeah, they're just, you know, I don't know, metal or whatever you want to fucking... Yeah.
01:17:41
Speaker
We're not into it, but they seem okay.
01:17:46
Speaker
um I'm more of a Metallica head, so I don't know.
01:17:51
Speaker
um So yeah, I think his love of travel, meeting people, and carnivals led to him working for for the Western Canada Exhibition Circuit.
01:18:03
Speaker
So going with the, you know, the little town-to-town carnival expos, all the rides and... working with the carnies as a car, whatever.
01:18:14
Speaker
Um, and he had actually just worked the Edmonton X expo and was on the way back towards Winnipeg, um, on the bus. He was going to take the Greyhound back home.
01:18:27
Speaker
So he boarded bus 1170 and settled in for his trip. And he was probably just really looking forward to seeing his family and friends. I think they were, don't know if they go for a few weeks and then,
01:18:40
Speaker
probably come back. I know one of the guys on the neat cast does it sometimes, but like, yeah, it's obviously just a summer gig, so. Yeah, it's really...
01:18:51
Speaker
just the summer seasonal yeah i know they used to have one that would come i don't know where else they would stop at but it would came to it would come to the safeway in the oh it wasn't even here it was uh where i grew up in spruce grove it was they would take over half of the safeway parking lot for some reason and then it was just okay And they had a decent amount of rides. Like, not big ones, but they would have, like, the game stands, and they would have, like, smaller kid rides and, like, spinning strawberries.
01:19:26
Speaker
And then... Oh, yeah. ah Spinny ones. Like, space... The one that, like, looks like a spaceship and it just spins.
01:19:37
Speaker
Yeah. I like that one. Ones like that, where it's, like, kind of more stationary. It doesn't take up a lot of space. They had ones like that. and we but It was always the, ooh, can we go hang out at the Safeway parking lot?
01:19:52
Speaker
That's so weird that it's just like, yeah, they didn't call it like the whatever area or, you know, in Fredericton. It was the Frex or whatever because it was the Fredericton Expo, so it just shortened it, right? yeah and Like, I'm sure they could have put it in...
01:20:12
Speaker
a school's soccer field, ah anywhere other than the Safeway parking lot on pavement. Like, I don't know why that was every year it was there. Yeah. It's not a big space. Lack space. I don't know why.
01:20:27
Speaker
I don't know why they did it. I guess ours was kind just in a random, like, I don't know, was it expo grounds? Sort of. And then there was just like a random Timmy's nearby.
01:20:39
Speaker
always yeah see that would make sense this was yeah there was just stores all around it then there's just a random carnival in the middle of a parking lot oh like cool yeah and i think this the what people say is it's a little scary because they have to do the rides set them up and take them down so often that you're like always questioning how safe they really are which is a little scary to me now that I think about it as an adult.
01:21:09
Speaker
Right? yeah Yeah, because they're completely building and dismantling these things over and over again instead of just doing routine maintenance or something on it. Yeah, it's a lot.
01:21:25
Speaker
So...
01:21:28
Speaker
Oh yeah, so he's just like gonna put on his headphones, sit back and relax, and you know, those bus rides take a hell of a long time. Yeah, I do remember now you did tell me what case this is, so now and oh no now I know what what I'm in for, but I had forgotten.
01:21:46
Speaker
Until you mentioned the bus. Well, yeah. Oh shit, she did tell me. It was pretty all over the news when it happened. So if you hear Greyhound bus in Canada, you might remember yeah where this is going. but it's I've heard it covered quite a few times.
01:22:04
Speaker
yeah Oh really? Okay. well Let's just see What else?
01:22:13
Speaker
Yeah, I'm excited. I always like when when we get to cover one, It's like write a rite of passage.
01:22:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's kind of scary to cover ones that are, I don't know, bigger? I don't want to say that, but just like, just when people have a lot of opinions about. It's that kind of thing.
01:22:36
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. It's rough. of it Yeah. Anyway, we'll just get to it. I'm sure this is annoying people. so Later that day, which was July 30th, 2008, they were about 18 kilometers west of Portage-la-Prairie, and the quiet was sliced through with a scream. So, big old trigger warning for all the the details that we'll have to get into.
01:23:05
Speaker
And like there was a man had been sitting at the front of the bus who had gotten on at the last pit stop was now sat near Tim at the back of the bus.
01:23:18
Speaker
He was wearing ah shades and the bus had about 35 passengers, just so you know. and ah earlier they yeah I guess I forgot to say I thought it was weird they were like they were playing Zorro on the on the bus like they have those TVs that like hang down and you can like watch it if you want yeah they used to do it on planes too but you know it's different now but I was like wow no now you gotta pay for wifi they can't get you entertainment yeah this almost sounds so old school well it is because yeah buses aren't
01:23:56
Speaker
super big anymore as we'll see so um yeah there had been a smoke break that everyone got back on and then at about 8 30 p.m the attack starts and everyone hears a scream so unbeknownst to his fellow passengers the voices in a man called vince lee's head had uh reached a crescendo and were telling him to kill the man next to him So he stands up.
01:24:25
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, oh God, you're just there. Nothing you can do. um He stands up and stabs Tim in the neck over and over. The passengers nearby start screaming in terror, obviously.
01:24:41
Speaker
And the bus driver pulls over as quickly as possible so that everybody can get away off the bus as fast as they I mean, what do you do?
01:24:53
Speaker
uh yeah nothing uh because he's on a rampage the anyone like the bus driver is trying to tell him and yell at him to stop but he doesn't seem to hear anyone or anything around him yeah so yeah it's like fuck um as the attack continues the other passenger or and driver are frozen in horror unable to intervene there's one point where some people did attempt to get back on the bus and speak to lee um which i think i might have a little bit more details on later but he's not making any sense basically speaking gibberish as he continues to you know attack and now dismember what is tim mcclain's body yeah it's fucking horrible
01:25:52
Speaker
Um, that is when he decapitates Tim's body and walks to the front of the bus to hold the head up, further traumatizing everyone around. Yeah, I can't imagine. i It's like, what?
01:26:09
Speaker
I would be just trying to get a far away from the bus as possible. Yeah, like you're in a literal horror movie at that point. Yeah. That's... Like, where's Mike Myers? Because you're like, this is someone has dropped, you know, the the crazy bus or whatever. the The mental patient has escaped and he was on the bus the whole time. Like, it's just so scary.
01:26:33
Speaker
But they hadn't been doing nothing. um The emergency service had been called during this time and the driver had disabled the bus from the outside and RCMP did arrive.
01:26:45
Speaker
the however the attack was not able to be stopped ah because he's still got the knife and like yeah it's the rcmp they're not the swat team like i don't think they have the you know what am i trying to say armor and the equipment necessary to deal with this i think they might be more now but definitely not i think in 2008 Yeah, I would hope, ah yeah, there would be maybe a better response, but certainly there's more um prevention ah policies, I guess, with the way, you know, they search your bags before you go into a lot of places and stuff like that. But, oh my god. Yeah, but it sounds like, like with the bus driver disabling the bus and getting everybody off and them calling people right away and stuff, it sounds like they were
01:27:42
Speaker
seems like they did everything that they could like to contain the situation right yeah i think a lot of people acted like really admirably um yeah and even though i know there's other stories where like a few people are able to take down someone who's attacking on a bus i feel like there was one in europe or something where the three guys got the assailant down but like if he's in such a state you don't know that you're not just gonna also get killed necessarily.
01:28:13
Speaker
Yeah, it can it can sometimes lead to more injuries and, like, escalate the situation. Yeah. I mean, yeah, at this point, maybe you don't know if he's got more weapons or what.
01:28:29
Speaker
Yeah. So... um Okay, yeah, so there was a quote that described it As such, they arrived to find the suspect still on the bus, being prevented by escaping by another passenger, the bus driver, and a truck driver who had provided a crowbar and ah hammer as weapons.
01:28:49
Speaker
The other passengers were huddled at the roadside, some of them crying and vomiting. Yeah. Right? Sorry. Yeah, holy fuck. Sorry, it's so scary. My nervous laughter comes out.
01:29:05
Speaker
Uh.
01:29:07
Speaker
oh because the suspect had tried to drive the bus away the driver had engaged the emergency immobilizer rending the vehicle vehicle inoperable i don't think i had known that that he had tried to take the bus or drive the bus i can't remember yeah it's like pretty scary i'm glad they were able to use the immobilizer which sounds cool.
01:29:38
Speaker
Yeah, because that's a like big vehicle. That's a big vehicle for somebody to drive around with. You don't know what they're going to do. They could ram into things. Right. What other, like my car doesn't have something that you could, well, I mean, you could go in the hood and I don't know, cut something I'm sure and disable it that way. But yeah, it's cool that it they had that feature. Yeah.
01:30:02
Speaker
By 9pm, police were in a standoff with the suspect and had summoned special negotiators and a heavily armed tactical unit. The suspect alternately paced the length of the bus and defiled the corpse.
01:30:15
Speaker
Sorry. Police then saw Lee eating parts of the body. During this time, RCMP officers reportedly heard Lee say, I have to stay on the bus forever. Oh. Yeah.
01:30:29
Speaker
Yeah. Then it said, gar Garnet Caton, a witness, said the attacker seemed unaware of others when the stabbing occurred, adding he was struck by Lee's calm demeanor.
01:30:41
Speaker
There was no rage or anything. He was like a robot stabbing the guy, he said.
01:30:48
Speaker
Yep. Fucking crazy.
01:30:53
Speaker
um So yeah, over four hours, it took them before they could... yeah they didn't they couldn't really do anything. it was just at around 1.20 he himself broke a window off the bus and threw some of this his stuff outside, including the knife and a pair of scissors.
01:31:13
Speaker
And then he jumped out the window on to landing on his belongings. And then officers attempted to handcuff him, but he continued resisting hard enough that he had to be tased twice before they could cuff him.
01:31:29
Speaker
Damn. Sounds like some stuff when and my brother, he used to do security for like concerts. And then sometimes ah he would do like music festivals.
01:31:41
Speaker
Oh, wow. told me like of quite a few times about people. Like my brother's six foot three and 200 pounds. So he would tell... us quite often about like times where it would take three people his size to take out a person that was my size because of the amount of drugs that they were on like it's crazy um how much like they don't feel pain they'll just keep going they're unaware of the situation and you just yeah my brother's like I watched people run full tilt through walls multiple walls before they stopped
01:32:20
Speaker
right like some adrenaline strength that's just psychotic which i hate to use that word but you know what i mean yeah oh that's crazy yeah i'd be intimidated brother's got the big beard and beard he's coming at me oh yeah he didn't have it ah at this time but right yeah i mean he's a big dude and i take you yeah He'd call backup, he would call the guys that were a bit bigger than him and be like, hey, like, we need to go get this person because they are not stopping.
01:32:58
Speaker
I
01:33:01
Speaker
yeah i don't know what I would do. Okay, almost through the most horrific of the details,
01:33:14
Speaker
But there is this fun fact that in his pocket they found a plastic bag with parts of Tim's face in it. His ears, nose, and tongue. So, no yeah.
01:33:26
Speaker
He was taken into custody and sent for a psych evaluation. Thank God. Yeah.
01:33:35
Speaker
So, at this point, he would be charged with second-degree murder, and his court date was set for August 5th. 2008 that's my mom's birthday no no I just have to alleviate the horror no ah yeah so he's sent for a psych eval all this is going on um and I'll get to his ah background here but apparently he only said three words in the court appearance once it commenced and that was please kill me damn well know isn't that hall so heartbreaking all of it
01:34:16
Speaker
So Vincent lee was born one month premature in Dandong city, China on April 30th, 1968, which made him 40, uh, at the time of the attack in 2008.
01:34:31
Speaker
He had some, yeah, just so you know, but, he had had some health issues due to his early birth, which like a whole month early. Yeah. Like rain was a couple of weeks early and she had to spend a few extra days in the you know, the NIC unit or whatever, that it's like the ICU for the babies.
01:34:48
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, okay. So yeah, i can make a but pretty big deal to their health sometimes. um So he had had some lung issues and some other, you know, undisclosed medical issues from his early birth that made him rather fragile, you know, compared to other kids his age, I guess.
01:35:10
Speaker
Yeah. And ah his mom was a math teacher and his dad was a custodian. And he went to actually the University of Wuhan.
01:35:22
Speaker
Ever heard of her? um no. These days we have. Yeah. oh So, yeah, he did end up going to the University of Wuhan Institute of Technology.
01:35:37
Speaker
so pretty smart because he obtained an engineering degree and applied electronics and computer engineering in 1992 so it's like wow okay very smart yeah he uh yeah yeah but he he i guess this is the next thing i have was when he moved to manitoba um But he, I worded it really weird. I said, he moved to Manitoba after getting a job and a girlfriend, which he married.
01:36:09
Speaker
and which i When I started that sentence, I just committed so hard to the way I had worded it. I was like, whatever. So suffice it to say, he ends up in Manitoba. And then as happens to a lot of smart people that come from ah places that don't speak English, he ends up working at a McDonald's because he's got poor English and he can't just immediately transfer his skills.
01:36:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So that kind of sucks. Um, he tries to kind of get back onto his chosen career path. He's like taking a computer, computer programming degree, um, here in Canada.
01:36:47
Speaker
And, um, so that was good. Uh, but then his mental health did start to have some, uh, decline where he had this hyper fixation on the sun,
01:37:02
Speaker
obsessing over looking at the sun and putting belief in the power of it being able to tell him like what to do we would go outside and look up at it and i think fanrier got into something oh yeah that that sounds different that's a yeah he's i mean i so i like to do a little sun salutation when i get up a little way to stretch but it's yeah he's going out and looking at the sun and then letting it give him directions for the day which is kind of weird
01:37:41
Speaker
so that's a little troubling and he's uh begins to hear voices in his head either from the sun or whatever he doesn't know and sometimes they call him things like chinese jesus and he's getting all these weird um unfortunate so mental health issues like he's dealing with. There was one thing that said for a while he lived in his car after again failing to find a job.
01:38:11
Speaker
His ex-wife was helping him out, sending him money and was living with him again in July 2007, which it is the month I had my daughter. um there So their relationship was like up and down.
01:38:26
Speaker
and it was improving at that time. he had worked it as a janitor a mechanic a cashier at walmart just all these different things but he was described by his bosses as like reliable and hard-working and not showing any signs of trouble whatever that may mean know yeah um yeah his it said ex-wife said he appeared happy for the first time since his hallucinations began So yeah, I think they split up at some point.
01:39:00
Speaker
Next thing we know in September of 2005, had an incident where the voices told him to get on a bus to visit a friend in Toronto. um So he did, he got a ticket and he went there.
01:39:14
Speaker
ah but once there, he either visited the friend, I'm not sure, but then became disoriented and confused and eventually started wandering along the highway as if making his way back home.
01:39:26
Speaker
Yeah. So that's troubling. And that got him picked up by the authorities and kept in a place called Etobicoke overnight.
01:39:39
Speaker
So there he was seen by a doctor and diagnosed as schizophrenic. So. who I think that's what I remember hearing before.
01:39:49
Speaker
he was schizophrenic.
01:39:55
Speaker
Yeah, they died had diagnosed him at this time, and so that was good. And they had held him, I believe, for about 10 days, monitoring his mental state and like adjusting and prescribing him some drugs to help him.
01:40:11
Speaker
um He was advised to stay longer, the sources all said, but like left against the medical advice and without medication. So I don't know why or how that...
01:40:24
Speaker
can happen but wasn't good yeah he apparently got some help from his wife i guess maybe she bought him a ticket homes but he made it home oh and i think it was said shortly after that that's when they broke up again or whatever and then yeah so then he moved to edmonton on his own Which just is just like every thought, every which way he's being failed by the support systems he has.
01:40:59
Speaker
think. Yeah, I feel like you need to surround yourself with was people.
01:41:07
Speaker
And like it sucks that their relationship wasn't in a good place and they were breaking up and stuff, but she's like his only family here, I think, at the time. You know, it's just...
01:41:20
Speaker
It's all, you know, hindsight's 20-20, obviously we can see now. It's, what happened was horrible, but it's like, oh my gosh, it just sucks to hear how it all played out.
01:41:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, so obviously you can see how this is snowballing. Now the voices are telling him to carry a knife for his own protection. And to start traveling again.
01:41:46
Speaker
Yeah. yeah
01:41:52
Speaker
He had some job which was delivering newspapers and he had done that the morning of July 28th and then he had bought a ticket under an alias named Wong Pent and he had written something to his wife that said I am gone don't look for me I wish you were happy.
01:42:10
Speaker
well So he made his way through Alberta then Saskatchewan he's on the bus into Manitoba He gets off early at Erickson, Manitoba.
01:42:22
Speaker
Like if he had stayed on that bus that full night, he would have gone on the way to Winnipeg, but he got off a night, spent the night there. ah Just really erratic behavior. Like he sold his brand new laptop for $60 to a random teen on the street that day.
01:42:39
Speaker
And, uh, then boarded the bus back to Winnipeg, which was the 6 55 PM bus. Um, pm bus um And that was, yeah, obviously the bus where he came into contact with his victim, Tim McLean.
01:42:55
Speaker
Yeah.
01:42:58
Speaker
So that's horrible.
01:43:03
Speaker
I put a fun fact in about the, the, the name of the town Portage La Prairie. Cause it was just all so depressing. My poor notes are a cry for help. Yeah. Oh my God.
01:43:16
Speaker
Um, Whatever, it's not...
01:43:22
Speaker
it's a It's not that fun. um I don't know.
01:43:29
Speaker
Well, the place sits on the Assiniboine River, which would all like flood, i guess, the town persistently. It said until a diversion channel was built north to...
01:43:42
Speaker
Lake Minnetoba, which they called the Portage Diversion, and it was built to divert the floodwaters. And I was like, okay, that's kind of cool. Because like there was so much flooding in the Red River Valley at one point that what did it say?
01:43:59
Speaker
the There was flood of spring 2011. The Portage Diversion handled roughly half the flow of Niagara Falls. Holy! okay that's a lot.
01:44:10
Speaker
Right?
01:44:12
Speaker
That was the fun of the fact.
01:44:17
Speaker
But yeah, Portage-le-Prairie is basically the town they were just outside of. And this all happened. So... I have.
01:44:28
Speaker
Okay, so that's still turning back. Sorry.
Impact on Transportation and Crime Awareness
01:44:31
Speaker
I remember when this happened. It was just when I had started like growing up in Spruce Grove and then coming here for a doctor's appointments. My mom and I would take take Greyhound bus from Spruce to Edmonton.
01:44:43
Speaker
ah every couple weeks for my doctor's appointments and then when this happened oh really it was a few months later that the city of Spruce Grove like acquired their own buses and then they started having it would only have a few stops in Spruce Grove but then it would drive into Edmonton and yeah So I don't know if that like coincided with this at all, because it happened very quickly after because people did not want to go on Greyhound buses at all.
01:45:15
Speaker
No, they really didn't. I'm surprised, yeah, that it wasn't handled by a more... municipal type bus at that time but the transportation system is pretty shit so that actually doesn't surprise me all that much now with like Spruce Grove getting so much bigger they have like a long bus route and it's really good for commuters and everything but yeah right before that this happening it was maybe about a year because I mean I started going to doctors in 2007 so it was maybe about a year that we were having to take the Greyhound like into Edmonton
01:45:50
Speaker
so yeah yeah this really didn't help anything with their company's ultimate spoiler alert demise like yeah but i mean that could be that's travels like that a lot of times too right like yeah it comes in cycles yeah and then i feel like you have to find a better faster way to travel or flights open up or something then you're not gonna like keep driving or taking the bus ah or the train like the train's really fucking expensive anyway
01:46:27
Speaker
uh yeah that's interesting though yeah we would have just moved out here in 2008 so no yeah i had a very small child so yeah i was probably a little preoccupied but it's one of those things I definitely remember it hitting the news cycle and I'm sure it made it out of Canada too because like that's something you just don't hear about every day like yeah especially here i don't know not that that's here or there like we obviously have a little bit less gun violence but we're not fucking perfect like we have a lot of crazy crap that goes on here just like America does we're very similar to them and like crime and stuff like that I think
01:47:12
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like maybe it just wasn't but before this and maybe some other cases.
01:47:20
Speaker
I mean, like 2008, it was still kind of harder to hear about stuff that wasn't necessarily just happening in like your local area. so Yeah, people weren't as many listening to podcasts and stuff either.
01:47:33
Speaker
Yeah, and like Facebook, and I don't even think we had Instagram then. YouTube is fairly yeah ah God, what did we do with our spare time? Have lives and hang out with friends without documenting it? Did it even happen?
01:47:48
Speaker
Have more meaningful relationships and conversations. Oh no. Or something. Yeah, don't maybe we did. But I don't know. Yeah, so I can see how...
01:48:02
Speaker
i it might have spread because like this was just yeah like you said on the at the beginning it was very very like sensationalized like can you imagine the the quick snappy headlines that were produced and everything to just yeah and i don't know like encapsulate such a tragic tragic case like yeah it's ah and it's really controversial in the way that people would obviously go to well what's the right way to deal with that and what should we do better next time or you know
01:48:40
Speaker
ah anyway yeah it's obviously rough when we get into the aftermath also especially with the yeah victims families mother oh so but i yeah i did found it pretty interesting um yeah And I don't know if I remember, like, what happened.
01:49:00
Speaker
So, we'll get into it here, but... Sorry, some of this is kind of repeating. Yeah, I don't know much about what happened after, but I i do remember some of the details of, like, what what happened, but... Yeah.
01:49:22
Speaker
Yeah. So, basically... Yeah, they're taken into custody. Custody. Customy.
01:49:33
Speaker
And put on medication. Reconnected. Start with me.
01:49:43
Speaker
It was fine on my end I don't know. okay I don't know. Yeah, I just looked at it said reconnected. was like, fuck. um So they get him on some meds and... um stabilized, we'll say, and then get his lawyer where he's able to claim that he was acting in what he believed was self-defense because of what you know was going on in his head. He was being told a lot of things, like that he was top stopping Tim from resurrecting and harming others, he actually believed,
01:50:20
Speaker
and stuff like that. So... yeah like it's basically his defense um like see there's a lot of stuff you'll see in some of the articles were like he thought you know aliens were talking to i don't know like it the details i guess don't really matter but like he he was in complete psychosis i remember the thing about aliens for some reason like Yeah.
01:50:49
Speaker
People just like to repeat that stuff. Yeah, whatever it is. Like, if you're schizophrenic, I can't imagine, like, how much that impacts your life. And if you're not on medication or have a support system and you're on your own and traveling, so, like, nothing's ever familiar. You have no stability. You have no routine. It's... Yeah.
01:51:15
Speaker
Now he's being... I can... believing he has to carry a knife and all this other stuff it's it's all like a perfect storm of symptoms of mental illness and being let yeah to run loose almost it just sucks like he's just the wrong place the wrong time he's just literally there it's like holy fuck yeah
01:51:39
Speaker
And that's why, It probably would have happened to tech anybody that was near him. It just ah happened to be Tim, right? And he was just, like, listening to his headphones. Like, any of us nowadays, where we're just, like, you know, vulnerable. Just sitting there.
01:51:53
Speaker
Sitting or trying to, like, sleep or whatever. hope it was really, really quick. I really do. Like... Yeah. Yeah.
01:52:05
Speaker
But yeah, that's kind of why I feel like I should tell the story and try and tell it as respectfully as fucking possible, obviously. Yeah, because this one's a really hard one. People, as long as I've known it, people are, it it is pretty controversial one to try and get into. So ah yeah kudos for doing Yeah.
01:52:29
Speaker
Yeah, thanks. um It's like, fuck, I'm like, oh god, be careful here. ah But like, yeah, it's important because I didn't even really know the victim's name. It's him's name, so it's like, fuck.
01:52:43
Speaker
Yeah.
01:52:45
Speaker
So what is ultimately happened was the judge found him not criminally responsible, which is a sentencing or whatever, I guess. that you can have due to your mental state. Yeah.
01:52:59
Speaker
So i yeah, then he was taken to a psychiatric facility, which I think is obviously right. um yeah, and absolutely.
01:53:12
Speaker
Like, I think obviously, well maybe it's not obvious, but I don't think prison, even with meds would have been the necessarily help he needed to become reintegrated or safe for society so but yeah it's yeah I'm sure people might have other opinions and stuff like that but we don't have the death penalty here and so you know we don't really we i think we believe in more in trying to reform people rather than just punish them but yeah it's obviously tough
01:53:54
Speaker
Um, and, uh, and, that and, and his family obviously has a, has a tough relationship with how he's been treated there and then, um, allowed more freedoms as time goes on, much like, you know, prisoners might be. Yeah.
01:54:14
Speaker
Cause now he's medicated and, um, well, if we'll see from the, um, interview I have there that he, I don't know. I think he sounds like, more stable obviously i don't know so like by 2015 he was released into a group home uh and then basically in 2017 it said he was fully released he's still on medication but not like monitored the degree or whatever yeah so just like most people with mental illness would be yeah but um
01:54:48
Speaker
There's been many tributes set up on the highway itself as well as online um for Tim. And his mother, i know, was fighting to have this law enacted, Tim's law, that would make sure that no one who killed another person during a a mental, ah you know, break or whatever, that they should never be set free, which I don't know.
01:55:15
Speaker
I don't think it got enacted and I don't know that I agree with that. Yeah. I don't agree with that. Right. Like, I'm sorry. i I'm so sorry for her. Yeah.
01:55:29
Speaker
But it's like, yeah, I don't know. They had a little talk about it on Dark Poutine too, where the guy was like, no, I think I obviously feel like his co-host was like, I obviously feel for the family, but I think he's been, you know, done...
01:55:45
Speaker
his due diligence and you know is being treated now and he's like maybe I wouldn't want to sit by him on a Greyhound bus but like you know I still am okay with whatever Like, as long as he continues to be, like... Like, i'm I'm sure they have check-ins. I'm sure they have a certain amount of stuff. They didn't just drop him off and be like, here's a hundred bucks. Go live the rest of your life. We're never going to follow up with you again. bye he has been being monitored and and under supervision for a long time as well. So they obviously have an idea of what his mental state was and stuff, so...
01:56:26
Speaker
Yeah, like, I feel so bad, but yeah it can't always just be punishment for punishment's sake, you know?
01:56:37
Speaker
i think so. I think that's a really good way to put it. Yeah. so ah two of the witnesses, actually, that were there that day, and oh my god, I feel terrible for all these people that were traumatized and hope they got...
01:56:54
Speaker
therapy and stuff, but two of them actually did try and sue Greyhound, the federal government, and the RCMP for damages from ah trauma, or are still trying to sue. I don't know that it's come to a conclusion.
01:57:10
Speaker
and But, like, why?
01:57:15
Speaker
and know, I'm like, how can you really say that they could have anticipated that?
01:57:21
Speaker
Because, like... Yeah... There's just been no history of like attacks like that where we, you know... Like, maybe maybe because he was allowed to come on with some sort of knife, but... It was hidden. It was concealed. Yeah, they don't check people. They don't go through battle detector.
01:57:40
Speaker
You are in a public space, and I think with all the mass shootings and everything that have been happening, especially here in North America, and Canada, and the U.S. especially, true anytime you are in a public space, there is always a chance that something that could happen. And that's just something that you need to come to terms with, the fact that you are entering public spaces.
01:58:08
Speaker
I feel like, yeah, even though we should definitely fight to to hopefully change that, especially in the States. They've got to really get their laws under control there. But like like until that happens, all of you have to you yeah you have to understand if you're in a public space.
01:58:25
Speaker
Even your you're in a store shopping, something can happen. Yeah, at the theater that happened. You're at concert, you're at a movie theater, something can happen. You're walking down the street, something can happen.
01:58:36
Speaker
like It's very true. yeah Yeah, but one of them is literally suing for three million, I read. I was like, okay.
01:58:46
Speaker
So... um Like, I get that this was, like, especially bad, but people that witness all sorts of crimes aren't suing everybody all the time.
01:58:57
Speaker
like We're not generally that sue-happy here. That's not how we get changes done to our, like, laws in Canada, if I'm not mistaken. But...
01:59:09
Speaker
anyway i do know they kept the bus in use until greyhound's eventual collapse in 2021 which also pissed off his mother a lot so that's i don't agree with that it's it's kind of morbid but i know they do the similar things for like planes if there's usable parts if it's been involved in like a crash like I want to cover the there's basically one where the a plane is involved in a crash and then they use pieces of it in other planes and then um those pieces are like haunted because they start seeing like ghosts from the first plane it's really cool but oh creepy creepy right yeah I'm gonna I want to cover that at some point we have to do haunted um or planes or something haunted planes trains and automobiles
01:59:57
Speaker
Yes, that's on my list. I think I've... Maybe I'm pushing that one lately, but yes, we've got to do that eventually.
02:00:07
Speaker
so Yeah, like, i I don't think they should have kept the same bus going, but yeah, usable parts, I think, would have been okay. I mean, I think the whole thing was probably usable other than the window, but and then again...
02:00:22
Speaker
it's yeah it's kind of don't know those seats those seats were fabric the seats were not not yeah that's true oh god okay so I do have this will hopefully it made me feel a little better to hear it in the when I was listening to the Dark Bhutan podcast he included some so they interviewed and someone was able to get an interview with um Vince Lee who goes by a new name now, but they, everybody knows
Interview with Vince Li and Mental Health Reflections
02:00:52
Speaker
it. So it doesn't really help anyway. Oh yeah. and So it's ah okay. So this is after, yeah, this is obviously way after. So it's like after his release, maybe. So so the interviewer says, when did you begin to experience schizophrenia?
02:01:12
Speaker
He says in 2004, I didn't know what it was. I now know what it is. I began to hear voices that normal people do not hear. I thought I heard the voice of God telling me to write down my journey. The voice told me that I was the third story of the Bible, that I was like the second coming of Jesus.
02:01:28
Speaker
I was to save people from a space alien attack. Oh, that's what it was. That is why I traveled around the country and I'm not sure of all the places I went to. I now know that it was schizophrenia I was suffering from.
02:01:41
Speaker
Yeah. um Why did you do what you did on the bus? I bought a knife at Canadian Tire, not a sponsor. Oh no. kidding. I bought it from any emergency for the journey to protect myself from the aliens.
02:01:59
Speaker
I was really scared. I remember cutting off his head. I believed he was an alien. The voices told me to kill him. That he would kill me or others. I do not believe this now.
02:02:10
Speaker
It was totally wrong. It was my fault. I sinned, but it was the schizophrenia. What else do you remember about the incident? I try to forget it. I try to stay busy here. It is painful to think about.
02:02:24
Speaker
Yeah. How do you feel about what happened? I am embarrassed. It was wrong. Do you understand why people are scared of you? Yes, I don't think I will ever do it again. i didn't know at the time I had schizophrenia. Now I do.
02:02:39
Speaker
Which I was like, yes, he was in the middle of an episode, but he was diagnosed at one point. Yeah. Before that. Um...
02:02:50
Speaker
This is just a little bit, a couple more questions. What would you say to Miss... Wait, who's Mr. Deli?
02:03:02
Speaker
Did I miss someone? I don't know who they're referring to when they say... said, what would you say to Mr. Deli and Tim McLean's family?
02:03:13
Speaker
But then I was like, who's Mr. Deli? I must have missed something in one of the other previous... of course because he was the only victim that I know of um sorry that's bad bad research on my part um but he did say I'm really sorry for what I did if I could talk to her directly I would do anything for their family I would ask forgiveness but I know it would be hard to accept oh maybe that's just his mom's last name yeah probably said that
02:03:44
Speaker
Never. um How has the time been at Selkirk Mental Health Center? I know that I suffer from schizophrenia. The treatment team gives me a chance to recover to be normal. I'm glad to be taking the medication.
02:03:55
Speaker
Do you think you are getting better? Yes, my thinking is becoming normal. I don't think weird things. I take my medication, Olanzapine every day. i am glad to take it. I don't have any weird voices anymore.
02:04:07
Speaker
How do we know you will take your medication when you get out on your own? I would be glad to be under a treatment order because medication helps me. It is very important. I don't want to do what I did ever again. Yeah.
02:04:19
Speaker
Yeah. I think that's the important thing. He seems to have realized that what he did was wrong and he is grateful to be on the medication. Yeah. To me he sounds, um I don't know. There's no like normal or whatever, but I do think he sounds completely aware of the, the,
02:04:38
Speaker
implications and the right and like the wrongness and everything yeah um but it's still very sad like it's so sad for him the the final question they had asked him was some say the rcmp should have killed you that night and he said i should have been killed at that time i still believe that but i'm thankful that the rcmp didn't which i'm just like oh
02:05:01
Speaker
It must be rough to live with that. I actually heard a story on Sinisterhood recently where someone wrote in to say that they were an accidental killer. Like, basically, that it was vehicular... i think a house person was somehow...
02:05:18
Speaker
killed and they weren't they they said they you know it was a complete accident basically there was no alcohol involved or anything like that but they like they went to a support group basically because they were responsible for taking someone else's life which has to be a heavy thing to deal with and live with yeah i can't imagine that
02:05:43
Speaker
so yeah
02:05:47
Speaker
that's a That's the case. If you guys didn't know it, I'm sorry. If you did, I'm also sorry. Because it's so hard. Yeah.
02:05:57
Speaker
I do feel really shitty. Yeah. Yeah, i feel like it's so hard. Well, it's easy to be like, oh yeah, he should have been in prison forever. And it's so easy to...
02:06:13
Speaker
be like oh well he was mentally ill so shouldn't be in prison at all and but i think the middle the middle ground of like and like he should have been institutionalized with medication yes for quite some time and i'm glad they did that But yeah, in some ways I thought, oh, it's going to be like kind of, it's kind of a straightforward case. It's not like they have a back, like a background together. It's not like an abusive, yeah you know, relationship that just goes snap. But then it's like, it's all the aftermath that is really, it's so complicated because you're like, oh gosh, well, there is no simple answer this kind of thing.
02:06:56
Speaker
Yeah. I feel so bad for the family, but I think they, at least have to try and take solace in the fact that obviously tim tim did nothing to warrant the attack and it was nothing he could have done yeah yeah it was super tragic um but at the end of the day it had nothing to do with him specifically right it it was he wasn't necessarily targeted because of who he was or anything like that it was just what whatever the voices were telling him to do and just attack attack somebody and it just happened to be tim i guess maybe because of where he was sitting at the back of the bus or whatever you want to try and say but
02:07:50
Speaker
Yeah. Could have been anyone. and And I'm sure like, I can't blame his mom for needing some, someone to blame when something to focus her yeah like anger and, but you know, bitterness against, cause I just, I'm sure I would need something to do that as well.
02:08:08
Speaker
Cause no parent should have to go through that ever. I would focus my time and energy on mental health-like stuff.
02:08:21
Speaker
And because because like he was diagnosed schizophrenic before, if anybody had ever tried contacting, following up with him, anything like that, it could have been prevented that way.
02:08:37
Speaker
So I feel like that's... true That's a positive thing you could do Yeah. You could channel your energy to a positive. Be like my, my son actually was killed by somebody mentally ill. Like we knew that this person or society or some people knew that this person had mental illness, but because there wasn't the like policies or procedures and stuff in place that we may have now,
02:09:04
Speaker
um I'd like to think I would do something like that too, but that I'm just like, ugh, you killed my daughter? Like, even if you I knew that you were not criminal-resently responsible or whatever, I can't say I wouldn't want to tear them apart with my bare hands.
02:09:21
Speaker
Like, I just don't know. yeah Like, I've just never been in that. I'm not saying you're judging. I'm just saying we don't We can't really say what we do in that situation. Yeah. That's horrible though. That's a good idea though.
02:09:33
Speaker
That's ah a positive way people could have an impact. Yeah. Yeah. I used to think I could handle working in the mental health field, like being a psychiatrist or a social worker or something, but no, I don't think I have the but mental fortitude.
02:09:49
Speaker
No, it's... I hear it's rough. Yeah. Shout out to the social workers out there and all the people that work in all those yeah mental health facilities and departments. Like, oh my God, doing the Lord's work out there.
02:10:06
Speaker
Yeah. Or people that know people um struggling with mental health, just try try and be supportive of them. and Yeah. There's a lot of mental health struggles that are so stigmatized, like yeah you know like addictions and stuff, which are not ah a personal problem. They're a societal problem. And we have to...
02:10:25
Speaker
recognize shit like that sorry preach being supportive being supportive doesn't mean you have to enable them or give them money or yeah any of that kind of stuff it can be somebody for them to talk to somebody to give them words of encouragement or um it's tough make sure they're they're keeping themselves safe or others are safe like all that kind of stuff cutting them off anyway that's a whole nother yeah some unfortunately sometimes that's what that means too because sometimes people have to hit rock bottom oh yeah anyway everyone's getting their mental health um
02:11:12
Speaker
issues addressed and self-care and doing all the things what are you gonna do the for are you guys having some fun you guys were having something fun today was it for your mom's birthday today that'll be good yeah i was like my mom's texting and calling me leaving me voicemails like jesus oh shit all good worries we're we're wrapping up And I don't know, I'm going to do something. It's beautiful out. I've been spring cleaning and watching something called the Decameron on Netflix, which has a Monty Python and the Holy Grail sort of vibe.
02:11:49
Speaker
It's pretty funny. So I might watch some more of that. And yeah, I don't know. think that was all we wanted to talk about. Patreon plug. You took me out for my birthday. It was fun.
02:12:03
Speaker
I had a good weekend. Hopefully this is going to be a good weekend too. It's been a long week. We hope you're all having it ah great first
Future Content Teasers and Credits
02:12:12
Speaker
bit of spring. and um ah yeah, we're going to do something spring sort of themed cryptic-y cryptids next week as well. So stay tuned for some cryptid little guys of some sort. Yeah.
02:12:29
Speaker
So that should be fun.
02:12:33
Speaker
And follow on Instagram and all of the things. And then I'll post more.
02:12:41
Speaker
I must swear I will. I will. And I'll get back into our TikTok eventually. have things on my list.
02:12:48
Speaker
Yeah. Anyway, until next time. Keep it cryptic. Yeah. Thanks for listening. Bye. Take care of each other.
02:13:23
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Castles Encrypteds. We love all our listeners and appreciate every subscriber, every new review, every listen, rate and download. Our music is by Kobe Offair and our cover art is by Antonio Garcia.
02:13:38
Speaker
We are also a proud member of Dark Cast Network where you can find the best and spookiest of all indie podcasts. Follow us on social media where we are at Castles Encrypteds on mostly all of the things now including TikTok.
02:13:52
Speaker
Check out our bonus content on Patreon cryptid clashes, video mini-sodes of your hosts making asses of themselves, ask me anything, quizzes, other special episodes, and more.
02:14:04
Speaker
Starting at just $2 a month, you can get one to two extra episodes, depending on your level. We produce, edit, and research everything ourselves, and any support you can lend helps us to keep it cryptic.