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192:: Bodies in the Water
52 Plays9 days ago
Well, we've done it again, another episode of crimes on the water.Why are there so many cases to choose from? So enjoy pondering Kelsey's "lifeboat case' an oldie but a crazy one that presents a moral dilemma. What would you do in that situation?
and then Alanna Takes us on a journey of cruise ship crimes. Mostly disappearances,from the well-known story of Amy Bradlel, to a couple called Hue Pham and Hue Tran all who seem to vanish into thin air.Or into deep water....
Even if not murder, we have some very suspicious cases. Tune in to Bodies in the Water and grab a life preserver, it's wild ride~!
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Transcript
Introduction to Darkcast Network
00:00:07
Speaker
Darkcast Network. Indie pods with a dark side.
Episode 192 of Castles and Cryptids: Overview
00:00:32
Speaker
You are listening to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted and the cryptids are cryptic fuckity fuck. fox And I'm your host, Alanna. And I'm Kelsey. And this is episode 192, Bodies in the Water?
00:00:48
Speaker
Question mark? Yeah. Nailed it. Named it.
Maritime Crimes and Missing Persons
00:00:53
Speaker
ah Yeah, it's not our first um maritime or on the water...
00:01:00
Speaker
featuring crimes because there's just lots to choose from it's become almost as much as our haunted haunted AF series yeah I know I have like a list I have a list in the episode ideas thing that I keep that's just a link to a list of missing persons on like water related missing persons i was like jesus oh for reference yeah ah we'll get to it as they like to say online and cry yeah yeah there's a lot which is unfortunate i should say yeah but
00:01:37
Speaker
Hey, hey, if it wasn't, that's not we wouldn't have anything to talk about if there wasn't any crime. Yeah, mine's a little different.
1884 Maritime Case: Captain Dudley's Decision
00:01:45
Speaker
it's Yeah, i as I talk about having that for reference, so we when we do boating crimes, I could just look at the list and then it was like to went a totally different route for this Okay, because I don't know what you're doing exactly.
00:02:03
Speaker
No, you said you didn't recognize it, but I think you might once I start telling it. it's It's pretty popular. um Something about some sort of boat. Okay, right. That's, yeah I don't.
00:02:17
Speaker
and We'll see. We'll see. Yeah. Sometimes things don't click in until you hear like a certain detail and then you're like, oh, which like actually was the case when I was doing my research where i was like, Oh, I'll look into this one. I don't think I know much about it. And then I went, oh, that's this case where they found this by the person. or so You know what I mean? You're like... Oh, yeah.
00:02:37
Speaker
and One detail just makes it click. Yeah, maybe I will recognize it. You're right. Yeah, you might. i think a lot of people might. Or wow maybe not. Maybe I'm overestimating.
00:02:49
Speaker
Depends, because if you don't listen to a lot of podcasts, then... A lot of times, like, it's all new to you Well, for the most part. Yeah, I don't know if this would necessarily be, like, true true crime podcasting, really.
00:03:09
Speaker
Okay, so I might not have heard it on a different podcast. Yeah, it's more of, like, I don't know, a thought experiment type thing. thing but it's something that actually happened so I don't know oh that is a different way of describing it and now I'm even more intrigued don't Schrodinger's case. Okay.
00:03:34
Speaker
Yeah. and So I had told Alana mine was ah called the lifeboat case. Cause if you, if you Google that, like, this is the only thing that comes up. It's, it's well known for that name.
00:03:46
Speaker
I remember just being like, I'll just avoid lifeboats. Yeah. Cause you didn't, you didn't know that my case took place all the way back in 1884.
00:03:58
Speaker
Oh, shite. No. Usually I tend to go historical. Yeah, back when the world was black and white and they hadn't invented color yet.
00:04:09
Speaker
ah Yeah.
00:04:14
Speaker
Oh, God. Yeah, so... Yeah, 1884, these so four four guys, ah they are being led by this, described as an experienced English captain, his name is Tom Dudley.
00:04:31
Speaker
Very English sounding. Yeah, Dudley. And then he has his mates with him or his friends, Edwin Stevens and Edmund, another very English name, Edmund. And they're his mates and his friends because if they're on a ship, they'd be mates and they're mates.
00:04:53
Speaker
I'm pretty sure they were friends because they they go on a very long trip together, these people. Okay. And there's also a 17-year-old cabin boy with them who's named Richard Thomas Parker.
00:05:08
Speaker
Ooh, okay. And I couldn't confirm the age of, like, the other three, like, ah Tom Dudley, Edwin Stevens, and Edmund Brooks.
00:05:22
Speaker
Some stuff said that they were married with kids, a few of them, and other things said that they were maybe only, like, 19 20.
00:05:31
Speaker
Oh, okay. Because I almost just asked you that when you said the age of the other guy. ah So, yeah, the only age that's ever provided is Parker's, and he was 17, and he was, it was always stated that he was the youngest.
00:05:45
Speaker
Oh, okay. So we do know that. Yeah. Yeah, because people could be pretty young working on ships, I guess. So that's that's at least a parameter. They said that Tom Dudley was an experienced English captain. it was like, why some stuff said that He might have only been 19 and married with kids.
00:06:06
Speaker
Yeah, but kind of a lot. Yeah, but he could have been working on chips for like 10 years at that point. Hard to say. I guess so. Yeah, I don't know much about life in 1884.
00:06:20
Speaker
I'm referencing Outlander and other things. I don't know. Of course you are. few. It's 100 years off, maybe. Yeah. hundred years off maybe
00:06:29
Speaker
ah So they decide to embark on a trip. ah I think they're leaving Europe and they're going to Australia. and it seems like it's planned to take months because they disembark on a boat that was described as like a yacht.
00:06:49
Speaker
on May was named Minionette, want to
00:06:54
Speaker
ah the boat was named said minionette and want to say It's like... I'm just like... It seems almost weird that they would have a yacht. That seems too much of us a pleasure ship to have back in the days where ships were so used for yeah transport and stuff.
00:07:16
Speaker
That's why I was like... Yeah, like they were just going... Yeah, it didn't say they were going there with any specific intent, just that they were leaving Europe and going to Australia.
00:07:28
Speaker
um Good Lord. Yeah, so they leave on May 19th, 1884. We jump ahead to July 5th. They've been on this boat for months.
00:07:42
Speaker
And the four men encounter ah some trouble when a storm comes up and pushes them off course like it's really bad storm no pushes them off course and their boat suddenly begins sinking with little warning.
00:08:00
Speaker
They don't know what to do. They just kind of grab some necessities. They're able to grab a little bit of food quickly and a few supplies.
00:08:13
Speaker
ah it said that they couldn't really grab any water. And then they get into the rowboat um or the like life raft thing that um they had.
00:08:25
Speaker
And their boat sinks. Yeah. And now they're, yeah, now they're stranded in the middle of the ocean in a small little rowboat.
00:08:37
Speaker
Stuff said rowboat, stuff said lifeboat, stuff said raft. I mean, how big is is it not even when they're not being specific? It might help you. I do have a couple pictures.
00:08:51
Speaker
have couple pictures. oh my god it's trying to recommend me google products right now just want to go to the drive not if you're not our sponsor yeah it's just like have you tried this and i'm like shut up um crap yeah because they left from from england you said europe yeah i don't even know where um the only thing was that they said that that um tom dudley guy was english and then later on they like go back to europe right england so um that's a long trip if you're leaving from anywhere on
00:09:42
Speaker
you know the european coast or whatever and then going ah down and around the tip of africa and then to australia it's like okay yeah that's crazy um yeah so there is a picture of the light boat it's basically a canoe I would describe it as a canoe ah or like a rowboat.
00:10:08
Speaker
A rowboat is probably the perfect description for it. It's got like the point at one end and then it's flat at the back. ah You would paddle it with oars.
00:10:21
Speaker
That kind detail. Oh, God. So now you have four grown men in that. And it's crowded. at their lost in the middle of the South Atlantic, ah about 1600 miles from Cape of Good Hope and about 2000 miles from South America.
00:10:41
Speaker
And the only supplies. So they almost made it the bottom. Cape of Good Hope is down at the southern tip. Yeah, but they're like 1600 miles away from that still. Oh, right. Yep. And that's a tiny little fucking boat. They're like knees rocking together. don't know. Oh, yeah. They sit side by side. and Yeah. ah Their only supplies are the two tins of turnips that they were able to grab before they got on the boat and they have no water.
00:11:13
Speaker
No water at all.
00:11:16
Speaker
Ugh. I'm flashing back to another story you told where they... ate some part of a turtle and it was gross also but the one guy survived um oh is that a reoccurring thing with me of about people eating turtles that does come up again wait Yeah, it was a modern one because there was a picture. a remember of when the guy got rescued.
00:11:41
Speaker
yeah. Oh, damn. Oh, no. The poor turtles. Save the turtles. They had nothing else to eat. So what do you do? Like the other guy died that was with them, I think you said. and I've heard it on, I think, another I totally.
00:11:57
Speaker
I did not remember that. They do end up catching a turtle. oh my God. um That's crazy I forgot about that She's like oh I secretly love boat crimes you No I just went Oh my god have I told this story before And was like there's no way I forgot this entire case No it was modern I'm sure it was modern I think I remember looking back at one of our pictures Or something You know when you're like yeah I was looking for something I think I was looking for something i was like did I cover this?
00:12:30
Speaker
Has Kelsey covered this? Yeah I do that all the time yeah oh god uh okay um i'm going to jump to when they get rescued so they get rescued 24 days later on their own uh it's located by this like big um it's like a i don't know like a big cargo ship type thing um but it spots them and they get rescued but the scene that awaits these rescuers i would say is like something out of a horror movie the so buckle up the one with the weird name there yeah i don't know how say it yeah i don't know
00:13:24
Speaker
likewin yeah he my and e yeah yeah so sorry ah yeah so this is gonna get pretty brutal um when food is scarce it usually does yeah that's one of those one of these stories god how did they how did they survive 24 but great We'll get into some of them. One of them, I think, had a a journal or journaled about it later. um About kind of what went down.
00:14:00
Speaker
um So when they get rescued, like the rescuers are like, oh my god. ah The men are covered in blood. there's like um human remains and like flesh and stuff under their fingernails.
00:14:18
Speaker
And then the bottom of the boat is strewn with the remains of one of the crew members that they have been eating. there's how many men?
00:14:29
Speaker
There's three now. Oh. There was four. Damn. i am knuckled and buckled. This is crazy.
00:14:41
Speaker
holy Holy shit. um Yeah, so there was kind of a different timelines of events I tried to piece together stuff the best I could. um Right. There isn't a whole lot, but... I can imagine. so Yeah, going way back to...
00:14:59
Speaker
going way back to Right when they ended up in the rowboat, Dudley, the captain, managed to improvise the sea anchor to keep the lifeboat headed into the to the waves to maintain their stability.
00:15:14
Speaker
And over that first night, ah one source said that the crew had to fight off a shark with their oars. Holy shit. Which, horrifying, like,
00:15:27
Speaker
yeah so scary to figure out what a sea anchor was you come at me with a shark i'm like wait what yeah that's interesting i don't know what they used for the anchor but yeah it kept them from at least like being adrift which i think is probably a good thing yeah i like you in one place yeah right it anchors them somewhat that makes sense yeah So they're apparently fighting off a shark.
00:15:53
Speaker
ah Dudley kept the first tin of turnips until the 7th of July, ah which What day would that have been? Day... Oh, that's two days two days into this.
00:16:09
Speaker
um So they don't eat anything for the first two days until July seven When the five pieces that are in the one tin of turnips are shared among the men and they make this one tin last for two days.
00:16:23
Speaker
Wow. Rations. Yeah. Because they only have two tins of turnips. um I don't know when they eat other tin. never to see turnip Yeah.
00:16:36
Speaker
Not that great. God. Uh, July 9th is when the men catch a turtle, uh, and they feed on it for the next couple days. What the fuck? How? How they catch a turtle? I mean, they're men. honestly don't know.
00:16:51
Speaker
They probably noodled it like a catfish or something crazy manly. That's it. Bite my finger. yeah yeah I saw a video of like this, like, you know, kind of thin little chick going to do, leaning over, you know, yeah do the noodling.
00:17:07
Speaker
Okay. And then like, you don't think that she, and she just comes out with this big fish and just is like, what, what? And walks away. And I was like, what? You made that look so easy. I used to watch that on TLC. For some reason, my family liked, um,
00:17:24
Speaker
the duck dynasty oh yeah sometimes yeah before before duck dynasty there was a hillbilly hand fishing that's what the show oh yeah that's right yeah why yeah yeah yes the duck boys they uh reminded me the old guy he always drink the iced tea and at the time there was like one iced tea that pat would like only buy that stuff from the grocery store or whatever until they discontinued it.
00:17:55
Speaker
You're a sweet tea! Yeah. yeah That's funny. um Yeah, so the... Oh, here's where i had it. So the... Yeah, they eat their turtle. it was ah weighed about three pounds.
00:18:11
Speaker
um So they get... So they each, like, split that along... Not a ass. And that's when they... sea turtle no it's not like captain america's shield size no i don't think so they probably did just snatch it yeah uh this is sorry this is when they eat the second tin of turnips and this food they between the turtle and the turnips lasts uh until the or the 17th
00:18:45
Speaker
um after because i guess they hadn't uh really come up with a way to catch rainwater yet or anything um so they were drinking the turtle's blood um i was literally just wondering when you're talking about the food and i was like what about the water um ah Yeah, um but they were unable to keep the turtle after the 17th because its blood became contaminated with seawater.
00:19:21
Speaker
God. which That's rough. Yeah. Sorry if anyone's eating. Right? I was just like... Oh my god.
00:19:34
Speaker
Oh my god. Hey, it's not their own urine yet. my god. No... no
00:19:47
Speaker
it's survival no don't do what it takes i don't really know um how they started catching it but they're able to catch small amounts of rain water when it does rain um in the tin maybe yeah i don't know something said that using their capes i don't know but I don't know, but I'm not versed in 1884 reference to a cape.
00:20:14
Speaker
So I don't know. Those jackets sometimes have like a half cape. Do you know what I mean? like you can Maybe. Coming down over the sleeves. Interesting. I'm not too sure. I'm just kind of making shit up.
00:20:28
Speaker
Yeah, I really hope during this time they're also able to make some sort of shelter where the sun, because the sun's just beating on you. You're in the middle of the ocean. Like, how do you just escape? um I hope they had been able to make some sort of cover.
00:20:41
Speaker
um But yeah, they started catching rainwater um and they relied on the small amounts of that. Yeah. And then July thirteenth it was, ah that's eight days at sea, the men began drinking their own urine.
00:20:57
Speaker
Okay.
00:21:00
Speaker
Yep. Okay. a Another week after that, on July 20th, Parker, who is the youngest, 17, he begins to drink seawater.
00:21:12
Speaker
no. Yeah. Oh, that's always a bad idea. I think it was out of desperation, you know? feel like that's what happened to that other guy you talked about. Yeah, I can't remember, though.
00:21:28
Speaker
I think so, yeah. definitely, like, went crazy with it all. Yeah. Yeah. Um... Yeah, I think it's said that some one of the other three also drank some seawater, but they didn't really get sick. But Parker, he really did. He started getting delirious.
00:21:48
Speaker
um And, like, drinking seawater can cause delirium and probable death. Like, it's quite common. Damn. Damn. And ah the men later said that they spoke of like drawing names or drawing lots and kind of like deciding, I guess, which out of the four of them would die.
00:22:10
Speaker
but a couple of them like rejected this idea. So they didn't draw names or do any sort of like choosing system at this time. I mean, it's such a final thing to have to do. I mean, you don't want to be like yeah the guy at the end of the mist.
00:22:28
Speaker
Spoiler alert, where he like kills everybody. And then like the mist lifts, basically. Like a tenth of a second later. yeah so Why couldn't we have seen those army troopers coming over here with all their like flamethrowers?
00:22:44
Speaker
The fog is great soundproofing. I didn't hear them. uh the visibility was poor poor yeah just like on my drive to work today it was so raining yeah oh yeah it was yeah crazy fucking pouring uh july twenty fourth parker ah They said he is now breathing heavily and apparently comatose and is now just lying on the bottom of the boat.
00:23:18
Speaker
Just like, yeah I think, virtually unresponsive. And this is when that Captain Tom Dudley makes the decision that he later says he wants to spare Parker any further suffering or anything. Yeah,
00:23:37
Speaker
yeah I guess. But they... He takes ah some sort of knife or something and ends up stabbing Parker in the side of his throat. And just like quick as quickly as he can and just lets him bleed out.
00:23:51
Speaker
um Yeah, said before his death from drinking the seawater could fully take hold or he could have like more pain and suffering. They said, I guess. I mean, how can we argue with him? We weren't there.
00:24:05
Speaker
We don't Right? Like, we really don't know. um There is some... These ones were...
00:24:13
Speaker
What was either journal entries or what he wrote about it after? This is in Dudley's own words. This was the captain ah saying, quote, no vessel appearing in on the morning. I made signs to Stevens and Brooks that we had better do it, but they seem to have no heart to do it.
00:24:31
Speaker
So I went to the boy who was laying at the bottom of the boat with his arm over his face. I took out my knife first offering a prayer to God to forgive us for what we were about to do and for the rash act that our souls might ah might be saved.
00:24:47
Speaker
And I said to the boy, Richard, your time has come. But then he says, the boy said, what, me, sir? And I said, yes, my boy. So they're saying he's comatose, but now he's speaking.
00:25:00
Speaker
Oh, and it was the boy. Okay, right. Yeah, the youngest. um He's only 17. ah Continues saying, quote, I then put my knife into the side of his neck. The blood spurted out and we caught it in in the baler and we drank the blood while it was warm.
00:25:19
Speaker
oh i know, this is pretty bad. ah We then stripped the body, cut it open and took out his liver and heart. Oh my really? Which we ate.
00:25:30
Speaker
What the fuck? That escalated so fast. They're like, it just dug right in. my god. Yeah. Okay. Stevens at that time was in the stern of the boat and Brooks at the in the bow.
00:25:45
Speaker
It was a terrible scene when later described by the survivors. ah Mad wolves, they described themselves. We could not have or we could not have our right reason.
00:25:58
Speaker
That's kind of like what There might be more in, like, his journals, but that's really always, like, what's used in any of the articles or stuff about the case.
00:26:10
Speaker
Okay. would be a fascinating read to see all of it. Yeah. Yeah, because there is other cases of survival where... Survival cannibalism. yeah Yeah, or, like, Weakest Link or somebody that's ill that kind of stuff, and...
00:26:27
Speaker
And it's always brutal, because do never know. Yeah, it usually is a last resort, though. Like, people... certainly seem to know the most famous ones like they're like oh you know the donner party and the soccer team andy's plane crashes like people kind of are dismissive of it when it's like you don't know those people did everything they could to survive and that was their like last option and it's
00:26:59
Speaker
Yeah. It's like, you just don't know what that's like. I think what does it in this case is, yeah, there's arguments on both sides, but like the day they killed Parker was on July 24th and they get rescued a couple days later on July 29th.
00:27:19
Speaker
So that's where people are like really upset, but like, how were they to know? yes that is true as well um and it was like three like how long were they sea 24 days right so over three weeks yeah on a fucking rowboat like yeah I don't know. I would be insane.
00:27:46
Speaker
I would be insane. I think so. think so. I think me too. Yeah. oh It's just, it's like, o same age. He's the same age as my kid is now.
00:27:57
Speaker
It's rough. It's a rough one. Yeah. That's. Oh boy. um So July 29th, the men get rescued. As I said, um they take like a journey back to England. They're by like September. They're back home.
00:28:13
Speaker
And they do end up getting like detained and questioned and everything about what happened, about their trip, and then obviously the death of 17-year-old Richard Thomas Parker. um And they are always really open ah about what they did. Like they didn't.
00:28:30
Speaker
try to hide it or anything they were like right it was we felt like a necessity we didn't know when we were gonna get rescued he was super ill and we thought we were um like deaths from drinking sea water or salt water can be really really bad we thought we were saving him from more pain and suffering he seemed to be They said comatose at the time, so they maybe he wouldn't feel it or something like that.
00:29:01
Speaker
But... and Likely. did save their lives because you can't go what? How many days can you go without water? I thought it was much less than food. Right, isn't it?
00:29:13
Speaker
And then it's like three weeks without food. Right. Yeah, that's why it's really important that they needed the fucking water. Ugh, but it's blood. Yeah, and it didn't really talk about how often they were ever able to catch that rainwater with the little amounts that they were anything, so I don't know how consistently they were relying on that.
00:29:34
Speaker
um nothing ever really said that that i ran across so yeah yeah there's lots of times it goes so long without raining like yeah i don't know um so with no idea when or even if rescue would be on the way the man identified parker is the kind of the weakest perceived due to his illness from drinking the seawater um Yeah, they kind of chose to end his life in the hopes of extending their own.
00:30:08
Speaker
And to some people, they simply did what needed to be done in order to survive for, like, them um Since the men were rescued four days or so later, it is likely that they would have... um Or it's possible that they would have all died before their rescue came. Yeah.
00:30:29
Speaker
it's it's ah That's a hard one to think about, yeah, because you're like, well... what if or what if yeah it's all the what ifs why yeah i certainly wouldn't want to prosecute them i mean they were in extenuating circumstances like did what they could and that's why this case is kind of popular because it is used in um i think it's taught to like some i ran across stuff saying it was taught to it's taught to lawyers it's like criminal lawyers and everything um
00:31:07
Speaker
Yeah, and like used in morality conversations, um that kind of stuff. So yeah, it was kind of interesting. I was like, because I can see, i can see all the sides to it at the same time. And I don't know which one I fall into at all.
00:31:24
Speaker
Like, I feel like it changes every time I... was like looking it up again or read something different I'd be like oh and I yeah but it's yeah it does it does leave you a little bit in a quandary but I want to believe them every that everything they were saying was true and so in that case exactly that's what that relies on too yeah I feel like I can't say oh you're culpable like this was a murder like because that's not the case
00:31:57
Speaker
um But they did, they did end up having a trial and stuff. ah I did run across, I, oh my god, I think it was like the original like trial transcript or some craziness.
00:32:11
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, trials were crazy back then. i don't know why just of this. Because was a lot. Sometimes animals on trial. That's funny. So I'm actually not surprised maybe that this got... This was like, I think I read through damn near 18 pages of legal like proceedings. I was like, oh my god, this is brutal. The first i saw half was like...
00:32:38
Speaker
No, that's lot. The first half was, like, talking about the case, and then the second half was, like, about the trial, and I was like, Jesus, this is a lot. So, I only have... Isn't it so dry? And I love to read. You know that.
00:32:51
Speaker
Like, it's like, oh my god. Yeah. I did only keep a couple paragraphs that I wanted to do um So, this said, the facts found on the special verdict ah show that the prisoners were not guilty of murder, but At the time when they killed Parker.
00:33:10
Speaker
I think this was the defense arguing this. It was also not clear about that. About like who was like. Each of these sections was coming from. um But killed him under the pressure of necessity. And necessity will excuse an act.
00:33:24
Speaker
Which would otherwise be a crime. So that's what they were trying to argue. ah And then I think this is.
00:33:34
Speaker
on a minute.
00:33:38
Speaker
Oh, I think this is also from the defense because they brought up a couple other cases that sounded interesting. So it's like, oh. It said that the law and the law as to compulsion, i guess this is called, compulsion by necessity is further explained in Stephen's history of the criminal law.
00:33:59
Speaker
And an opinion is expressed that in the case often put by causists, I think,
00:34:08
Speaker
I don't know. I've never seen that word before. ah Legal jargon. Yeah. um Of two drowning men on a plank large enough to support only one.
00:34:21
Speaker
ah the Jack and Rose conundrum. Sorry. It is The one thrusting the other off, the survivor could not be subjected to legal punishment.
00:34:32
Speaker
Thrusting the other off. I'm never going to not think about it that way now. like I thrust you off my plank. Never let go, Jack.
00:34:45
Speaker
It's been 84 years since I thrust you off my plank. I thrust you off this door. oh Oh, God. Yeah. In the American case of the United States vs. Holmes, the proposition that a passenger on board a vessel may be thrown overboard to save the others is sanctioned.
00:35:06
Speaker
ah So that was another one they mentioned. The law as to inevitable necessity is fully considered in Russell on Crimes, volume whatever, and there are passages relating to it in some other...
00:35:22
Speaker
like lawyer thing um there's like page citations and a whole bunch of stuff happening here i think hold on they're like this is precedent yeah they're trying to argue homicide of necessity in several cases ah gives the inticcence of two shereds or this is a different one ah instance of two shipwrecked persons clinging to the same plank, and one of them thrusting the other from it, finding that it will not support both, and says that this homicide is excusable ah through unavoidable necessity and upon the great universal principle of self-preservation, which prompts every man to save his own life in preference to that of another, where one of them must inevitably perish.
00:36:10
Speaker
sorry from Jack and Rose to me thinking of yeah of watching too many nature videos and then those orcas will really team up and get those seals off of the any little bit of ice they can find. That was what was making me think of with the thrusting them off the plank yeah for your survival. But you're it's crazy. Yeah, it is kind of like a moral quandary.
00:36:37
Speaker
It is, yeah. Like there's the kind of famous-ish one they talked about it on the good place i think where or no it's literally i have it later people yeah the train problem the trolley problem oh that's what it's called that when people argue the trolley paul problem they also like will bring this one in it's quite common too um Okay, sorry, I didn't mean is mine I was like, is mine even a true crime case? Or is it like morality discussion? I was like, i don't even know what I chose on this case.
00:37:12
Speaker
Oh, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. i let you explain the trolling problem in case people don't know what the hell we're talking about. it's like a series of things. Like, I think everybody has a different... It's like not one set thing. It's like a bunch of little...
00:37:30
Speaker
Oh, moral quandaries. Yeah, it's like a whole collection of them that's considered the trolley problem. It's not like one even a couple. Okay, but the one they do on whatever show. The famous one is like...
00:37:45
Speaker
you are riding a street car and you have to change tracks and you can either kill one person or you can kill like a bunch of people and then they always throw in oh what if it's what if the one person is somebody you know so would you rather kill one person you know where three people you don't know or what if one of the three people is somebody you know would you rather kill one stranger to save three people like yeah there's a whole bunch of it's kimmy schmidt and she i just i don't know what she does but she manages to like make the train hit her or something the trolley oh yeah she like she was auditioning to be a street crossing guard i think so yeah that sounds familiar lady as they call them lollipop ladies in the uk because of their crossing guard signs
00:38:37
Speaker
I just liked In the Good Place. And he's like, I think I've solved it and they're like, okay, let's hear it. And he's like, so here's how you kill everybody. oh okay. Yeah, that's how they did it. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, so funny. He's like, you dangle knife on a ah like on ah a stick and you lop off the one guy's head and you aim it at the three.
00:38:59
Speaker
yeah he's like it's an escape room and i just have to figure it out yeah i can't figure out how to kill all four of them uh yeah it's like jesus and they're like no that's not what this is supposed to be um yeah so the last little bit i had about that um
00:39:20
Speaker
uh yeah inevitably perish uh
00:39:28
Speaker
And then it says, is it true that Hale's pleas of the crown, page 54, states distinctly that hunger is no excuse for theft, but that is on the ground that there can be no such extreme necessity in this country.
00:39:45
Speaker
ah In the present case, the prisoners were in circumstances where no assistance could be given the essence of the crime of murder is intention. And here the intention of the prisoner prisoners was only to preserve their lives.
00:40:04
Speaker
So was there intent to... They're trying to argue like the intent to murder because they're like... The essence of murder is intention, and their intention was just to extend their lives, and they would have done that in any way. And if they had a different way, they wouldn't have killed him, basically.
00:40:27
Speaker
That they weren't killing him to kill him. They were, yeah, something like that, I think. Right. All they're saying is it was the last bloody resort. So what? um Damn. Yeah, so they yeah but there's like a lot more if anybody wants to get into it. It's a lot.
00:40:46
Speaker
I mean, feel terribly for the family of the guy. but yeah Absolutely. um But it also wasn't uncommon when people were out on the seas and working their lives yeah at the time. Yeah, like who's to say he would have lived anyway?
00:41:08
Speaker
Sorry. It just feels like we having to argue the point. yeah like yeah Yeah, I have like a bunch of things that like other people
00:41:18
Speaker
um because a lot of the articles I read were actually like they should have been condemned to death and what they did was horrible and here's all the reasons and then I was kind of reading them being like well you're you're forgetting this fact that they talked about. You're forgetting this part.
00:41:32
Speaker
So I did like lay it out. All my arguments at the end. Ultimately, if you're so concerned about the loss of one life, then you're going to take three more to make yourself feel morally better? Because they did what they had to do, they felt like, in the time of need.
00:41:49
Speaker
Whatever. Anyway. and like Get off your high horse, people. Yeah, so the court did eventually sentence Tom Dudley and Edwin Stevens to death.
00:42:03
Speaker
What? and Yeah. uh edmund brooks who who stayed he's the one that kind of didn't want to do the lot thing where they were gonna like draw names or whatever he said he didn't want to be a part of that so that's why they kind of didn't do it then um and he kind of like i mean he didn't interfere with it but he and then he did end up like eating Parker, I guess. So um he wasn't ever charged with anything and he didn't go to trial or anything like that.
00:42:40
Speaker
so it was just like two of the the three, which I thought was a little weird. Seems so arbitrary just based on their words, just because everyone was a man of their word. Yeah, exactly. Because have just as well told you that he was already dead, but yet they, can you know, manned up to having killed him.
00:43:00
Speaker
Yeah, they said, yeah they could have said he, he had died after drinking seawater and then we ate his body. They could have said that. Ugh, I'm so fucking mad right now.
00:43:12
Speaker
Um... Finish your story! I'm trying! Uh, in the end, the sentence ended up being commuted...
00:43:22
Speaker
by the crown to just six months imprisonment um for the two of them so i think by that by the time the trial they had probably served that and been released pretty quickly oh god damn it got me at a roller coaster over here ah yeah so they didn't die
00:43:43
Speaker
no they did not um yeah ah for the for like over 140 years now what's referred to as the lifeboat case ah continues to be a heated topic is it Alana do you feel it's a heated topic with many arguments coming from each side and it's also commonly taught in law schools around the world question mark because I saw that in one source and other things that it wasn't it wasn't so I don't know okay who knows who knows there's no way to know um didn't come up in my law class in high school but that's yeah that's limited um I didn't have any law classes that would have been interesting yeah it was an elective and it was pretty interesting actually yeah um so here's where I kind of gathered what some of the articles and sources I read like their different points they outlined and just
00:44:38
Speaker
I don't know what they kind of talked about. um So some argue that the men could have tried to survive through other means, such as focusing on gathering food from the sea, like they had done with the turtle.
00:44:49
Speaker
They could have caught fish, birds, they could have eaten seaweed. Yeah.
00:44:56
Speaker
And then I said, yeah like, you don't know what their frame of mind is. At this point, it's been weeks. This alternative makes it less likely that all of the sailor sailors would have survived.
00:45:08
Speaker
And to my point, I added, it also doesn't really take into account how weak all of them would have become after 19 days with very little food or water.
00:45:19
Speaker
agree.
00:45:21
Speaker
i I go a couple hours without eating and I'm a different person. Oh, yes. You've seen me get hangry. It's not a pretty sight. Jesus.
00:45:33
Speaker
I can't imagine having having a headache. Being so hungry. ah Being in heat. No escape. There's four people in the fucking boat.
00:45:45
Speaker
Like, you can't you can't get up. You can't walk away. You're sitting boat. Like... be like I can't imagine. um Yeah, so that's kind of one thing.
00:45:58
Speaker
ah Then people point out that if they had done the lot draw to decide who would die, then Parker still, um like, it would would have been 25% chance for each of them, it would have been more fair.
00:46:10
Speaker
And he was into it He was okay with that. Parker? Um, no, they were doing this kind of while he was unconscious. He didn't really know happening. Oh, okay.
00:46:23
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you can't really draw a straw then. Um, I'd like to point out that even if they did that and chose somebody else to die, then Parker may still have died due to his illness that he was having. Like, it was pretty severe from drinking the seawater.
00:46:44
Speaker
Meaning... That if that was the case, if they had killed somebody else and then Parker still died from his illness, that would mean two people would end up dying and the person that was chosen through the lot draw wouldn't have needed to die. That's true.
00:47:00
Speaker
Because Parker had died. Right? So, like... um I feel like there's no good outcome for this. That's why it's such a good argument. It's like the trolley problem. There is absolutely no solution to it. You can argue it until the day you die and there'll never be a right answer.
00:47:18
Speaker
um They probably all feel about some sort of guilt. i don't know. um Yeah, this is kind of what you just mentioned. Parker, had he been conscious or able to give consent, could have been able to voluntarily give up his life for the rest of the group.
00:47:33
Speaker
However, um they would, we like, or they would have had no way to prove um that he had volunteered other than their word, which is what most of this case is.
00:47:46
Speaker
Their honesty was like what they're saying happened. So they could have also said that. They could have said, oh yeah, he volunteered. i know. And I hate it when it gets into consensual cannibalism, Kelsey, which you have also gone into before. I have.
00:48:06
Speaker
You have covered that, Gracie. but This guy didn't want his death recorded and to eat his penis sauteed something. Yeah.
00:48:17
Speaker
Yeah. That's a rough one. There's a couple like that. Oh, um I only have a tiny bit left. Okay. Yeah. So obviously, like with all the details of the case and so that this like unlike the trolley problem, I guess this is something that actually happened. Yeah.
00:48:35
Speaker
um it's often used in debates about morality along with the trolley problem where um you're asked many different scenarios and just like the trolley pro problem there may not be a right answer um or anything i think it just is difficult i think when there isn't an answer yeah We just like things to be black and white, I think, as people. It's just easier for us to put you into a category of good or bad, unfortunately.
00:49:09
Speaker
um a nice thing they did was they put a memorial stone ah commemorating Parker. It's in the churchyard of Jesus Chapel on Pear Group. Jesus Chapel.
00:49:25
Speaker
Yeah. On Pear Tree Green in Southampton, near the site of the Itchin Fairy Village, whence he came.
00:49:36
Speaker
exactly what it says.
00:49:39
Speaker
So they have like a nice, looks kind of like a tombstone like placard thing um for him. I don't know who ah right like paid for it or... anything but it's kind of it's nice yeah if i it has like a nice poem that his family chose on it um it's it was like super religious or whatever and in old english and i could barely understand it so i did not copy it but wait but there's a caption under this picture right oh yeah
00:50:20
Speaker
biblical epitaph though he slay me yet will i trust in him lord lay not this sin on their charge your sin to their charge i like the first part though where it's just like memorial stone to richard parker which does not state his manner of death well does it usually Killed through cannibalism.
00:50:43
Speaker
ah Yeah. Is that what you want on Frickin' Cartoons? You don't usually say how someone goes. It's just for them. He was thrust off the plank.
00:50:57
Speaker
I did see on Reddit where people were like, why are these three headstones together? And they are like they had all died at the same date. And they were like, car crash. And then each like two of them had like Harley Davidson.
00:51:09
Speaker
Um. what do call it sketches engravings or whatever carvings in their headstones and one of them had a marijuana leaf so i was like cool but it was yeah somebody like linked the article and it was sad because it was like three best friends who had like missed a stop sign and like ran into a ditch and died was very sad damn yeah um that's what you can find on reddit in the cemetery subreddits i don't know jesus that's depressing hey cemeteries are beautiful it was nice that they put all their headstones together i don't know how to redeem myself from this shut up if you haven't like uh reserved your spot yet they always talk about that my god no what it now
00:52:01
Speaker
like can Yeah, my grandma, like, long before she died, had her little spot reserved by, um I think it was right beside her second husband, because he died. mean, yeah.
00:52:17
Speaker
Yeah. If you know who you want to go beside, for sure, yeah, yeah. My mom had some property in New Brunswick that was up past a little, like, hillside sort of cemetery, which was kind of... Oh.
00:52:32
Speaker
Interesting. Sometimes they're kind of neat looking. Anyway, I don't know how got into that. I'm sorry. that's ah That's all I all i got. We'll take a break.
00:52:44
Speaker
We'll come back for Lana's case. Ugh, thanks. I kind of hate it. good Yeah, thanks. I almost yeah decided not to cover it and I was like, ooh, no, I should. i mean, ah that' something ah something to think about.
00:53:02
Speaker
and think so. like We can always learn from history. Always. yeah Yeah, exactly. All right. Yes, my headphones have asked me to please charge them and I already had to switch to my other earbuds. I'm going to go plug in my headphone case.
00:53:19
Speaker
Speaking of dead headphones like we were before we started recording. Yeah, i had I have to use my tethered, my my plug-in headphones. My other ones aren't charged, I guess.
00:53:31
Speaker
We look so less like podcasters, but that's cause we use little tiny earbuds. Yeah. right, we'll be right back.
00:54:14
Speaker
Welcome to Murder and Mimosas. I'm Shannon. And I'm Danica. Are you looking for a unique twist on your true crime podcast? Join us on Murder and Mimosas, where a dynamic mom and daughter duo delve into chilling crime stories while sipping mimosas.
00:54:31
Speaker
Each Saturday, we mix our favorite brunch drink and dive into some of the most intriguing true crime cases. Our casual yet captivating conversations blend our Southern sarcasm with fresh perspective.
00:54:46
Speaker
So pour yourself a mimosas, get cozy, and tune in as we uncover the darker side of humanity together.
00:55:34
Speaker
And we are back. We're pretty sure this time, after a false turn.
00:55:41
Speaker
Wouldn't be an episode if we didn't have some sort of technical glitch, at least one. Yeah, that was really weird. I've never seen that before. yeah it said you weren't connected, maybe?
00:55:54
Speaker
and then I was talking, and I could see my little thing going. And then when you were talking, your thing was going, but they were at different... points like you were 10 seconds ahead of me in the audio recording so I was like where's where's my starting point it's all messed up
00:56:13
Speaker
ah but anyway you guys don't care we just are like yay we got it working because there's always something always oh yeah just like the way we're recording this one it's probably going to come out a few hours late if you guys didn't notice then don't worry about it it didn't yeah it was fine yeah if you listen on saturday or sunday you probably won't even notice yeah then just skip like wait forget we said anything yeah if you could only um what's the men in black thing with the little
00:56:47
Speaker
forget you you thing and yeah you just instead of skipping forward 15 seconds in the podcast you just do it in your memory just erase memory this is the most cutting it close we've ever been without just like skipping a week yeah like we may introduce like we've talked about possibly doing a little bit of a summer schedule because the way we've been having a hard time getting it out every week and not falling behind on patreon and stuff you know because we really don't want deprioritize anybody so yeah you know if we go to a bi-weekly or take a season summer break you just know that's why because we need a little time yeah um
00:57:38
Speaker
But anyway, um yeah, I went with the more traditional ah kind of, I think,
Cruise Ship Disappearances and Controversies
00:57:47
Speaker
thing we think of. People going missing.
00:57:50
Speaker
What type of boats do people go missing on? Well, the biggest type, the cruise ships. like Oh, no. Oh, yeah. oh Kind of a smattering, because I have covered one in Deep before he comes up on some lists um that George...
00:58:08
Speaker
smith guy i covered was there with his blonde girlfriend and then all that was left of him the next day was a big blood spatter if you recall oh yeah yeah i remember that yeah so sometimes there's some trace but usually what's creepiest about these cases to me is that they just seems like people just vanish into thin air yeah the ship yeah open ocean man oof it's how how many bodies how many bodies are just floating in there i know and i'm scared to fly too don't get me wrong i still do these things and i love yeah on the ocean but like yeah it definitely is scary the way um you could just go missing so fast um well yeah and we probably all heard of some of these but like yeah i just i did kind of a
00:59:05
Speaker
little bit of a deeper dive on one and then just some other like mentions and stuff because there's unfortunately too many to choose from yeah it's crazy yeah the one article i read lost connection nope we're good
00:59:26
Speaker
uh i got yeah it did it did totally suck me in uh just like earlier with or like mean earlier by like five minutes ago when i kind of thought kelsey was frozen for a minute oh yeah she's like wait i was just looking at my phone yeah i come back into the room from the break and i was like blah blah blah then when you didn't say anything i thought oh wait is she here if i talk in the woods and no one responds Does anyone hear me speak?
00:59:57
Speaker
and but Do I even exist? Oh, God. If no one's listening to my babbling, do I even exist?
01:00:07
Speaker
All right. So, yeah. Unfortunately, this kind of sucks. But cruise, it's crazy because cruises are so popular. I'll just say when I was in the travel department, our cruise department was so yeah busy.
01:00:20
Speaker
Like, they made the big money. yeah i've never been on a cruise i've been on like no um you know the ones that'll take you like a ferry kind of thing oh yeah day cruise whatever yeah we've all yeah we've done that too where it kind of goes up a river like does a loop thing and comes back and it's like two or three hours yeah that's kind of fun i like it yeah A little yacht.
01:00:52
Speaker
little yachting.
01:00:58
Speaker
um Yeah, what makes it different, I think, is the complications when ah crimes occur on on the cruise ships because of where they are and things like that. Yeah.
01:01:10
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's the major thing, right? And there's a lot of people, of course. any trip would require some caution. We all agree here in a foreign place. Usually, you know, it can be different languages. You got to watch out for theft. And we all know kind of that.
01:01:24
Speaker
Yeah. General bullshit. Yeah. But like little safety precautions and tons of travel insurance, which I'll always recommend as an ex-travelation.
01:01:35
Speaker
Then you can relax and enjoy yourself. Yeah. yeah Yeah. We to have to tell people like things like you don't, think you're gonna need travel insurance but like nobody ever expects to like break a leg or whatever you know like and yeah before or after um but yeah the international waters part of it all has always been sort of a no man's land so to speak it's hard i mean it's hard i was watching ah thing recently i don't know why
01:02:13
Speaker
oh it got recommended to me because i was watching stuff about the sorry um that eight passengers like family that had like the youtube channel or whatever and she was like using the two youngest yeah i was watching something about her and then um and the suggested thing on YouTube. It was actually an interview with the oldest son.
01:02:42
Speaker
And he was like only from a couple months ago and it was like an hour long and it was on a podcast and I was just like, oh, that would be like interesting to hear him speak about it. So I clicked on it and it was like Taylor Lautner, the actor, and his wife interviewing him.
01:03:01
Speaker
They have a podcast now and they have a bunch of true crime people like related on there. Jacob from Twilight? Yeah. Okay. Okay, just making sure. um Yeah, it's called the The Squeeze, and it's about, like, kind of when life gives you lemons.
01:03:19
Speaker
um They have mate. Him and his wife are really, really good. Like the questions they ask and like ah letting people like speak, even if they're rambling and like the types of questions they're asking the people being interviewed or like I've never I've even been asked that and like this has been going on for years and like nobody's ever thought to ask that like oh cool and stuff so it was really good so I was watching that and then they did one that was um what was the other one um now I can't remember what it was that made me think of on your case oh that's cool that they're really good um interviewers
01:04:09
Speaker
That's kind steal. It's really interesting. Oh, they had the the mom of Gabby Petito on there. ah And it was like talking about that whole thing. And she was saying when she was trying to put in a missing persons thing for Gabby that she was having a hard time with jurisdictions.
01:04:28
Speaker
um Nobody wanted because like they weren't in the same state. Yeah, and nobody wanted to take the missing persons case and everything. So I can imagine on when you're dealing with like foreign countries and international waters, like nobody, nobody wants to take your case. like No, and even if they if they do, maybe they can't because it doesn't fall in their jurisdiction. Yeah.
01:04:55
Speaker
Damn, I never thought about that with her case. Yeah, it's like the opposite of um like too many cooks in the kitchen or like um yeah local police investigating and they get kicked out by um like county sheriff for the state troopers and then they get kicked out by the fbi and oh yeah even the state like I don't know, the one show and book series I watched, Will Trent, they have the state level, like in Georgia, the Georgia Bureau of Investigation. So they'll clash with the like local Atlanta cops or whatever. like Yeah, there's all sorts of levels.
01:05:32
Speaker
It's like, ugh. Yeah, it's a mess. I can't imagine how bad like international waters is. um Yeah. No, I was like, it's thousands of people often left to their own devices with minimal oversight or security and plenty of booze and risky behavior. Yeah, I was going to say an alcohol.
01:05:51
Speaker
That's the match on top of the fire. Yeah. Yeah. throw in the murky legal waters pardon the pun of jurisdiction and responsibility and these floating cities are lawless like lands of opportunity for predators where one must be on guard and have a buddy too okay dramatic but yeah um it's scary because it's scary to think that there could be so many people around and still no one could see anything i think yeah
01:06:24
Speaker
And like the cameras that they're putting up too, even still aren't really helping. It's that's a big thing in this case. okay because it's what sticks out to me for this one where i was like okay maybe i'll dive into that a bit more is it's not just a guest it's a crew member and it's not just any cruise it's a disney cruise and we all know like disney has high standards when it comes to their company and okay i mean you can sell some disney you can be making the cruise money baby in the travel industry oh yeah yeah
01:07:01
Speaker
You remember our Disney specialist that worked at our office. She, she did the big business. and She still does. Oh yeah. That's crazy. Shut up, Ashley. Anyway.
01:07:14
Speaker
When, when we went, it was just my brother and sister-in-law that planned everything. They just like or read stuff. They asked for advice from people that have been, and then they planned everything. They booked all of our tickets. They,
01:07:29
Speaker
strategized everything and you know what it worked pretty damn good they did a really good job so you're not the only researcher in the family well you're big on reviews and stuff too even if you're just buying a product kate travels a lot and stuff okay yeah i think like out of her family we rely on her and my brother now to be like okay you guys like traveling quite often that's like yeah we're booking flights booking the hotels airbnb that kind of stuff we're just like tell us our share tell us how much our our share is i loved those kind of people when i was in travel i'm like oh you're just coming here for the tickets that's all i have to do for you ah perfect like because don't finding a hotel for someone else anyway it's just hard because yeah they have their specifications yeah i mean at least my family were pretty chill we just want cleanliness and
01:08:28
Speaker
like family or that kind of stuff yeah yeah maybe but we don't care about like adjoining rooms we don't care about like that kind of stuff we i mean we'd want to be on the same floor if we're in a big hotel but other than that we can get airbnb to be a sponsor then everybody's in one spot yeah we've done that a couple times it's nice Yeah.
01:08:54
Speaker
How easy we could do that for you? um Yeah. So, okay. So this one, yeah, like I said, it's a crew member um who works on a Disney cruise line.
01:09:08
Speaker
She went missing under unusual circumstances. And that just made me go, yeah, even, even the crew members are not safe. Yeah. Which is,
01:09:21
Speaker
ah So her name was, um, why do I not have her last name right there? Oh, there it is. Rebecca Coriam. Coriam?
01:09:31
Speaker
She's British, so... Corium. ah um She was a 23 year old British woman who was employed by the Disney cruise lines. And of course, it's tough to get a position working for Disney in any capacity. There's always hundreds of applicants. So she was one of hundreds interviewed.
01:09:52
Speaker
And she was like, so delighted to get the job, of course. Why wouldn't we?
01:09:59
Speaker
So then it's like four months of training and then you get to work on the ship. So it was like four months of training and then she got to do four months of on ship work or on job training. and It's probably still dealing how how to have the ultimate customer service voice. Will you deal with entitled people, entitled drunk people on vacation?
01:10:23
Speaker
the most entitled. Oh, on your little Disney cruise. I worked at a hotel bar Even that was close enough To the tourism industry Yeah Gosh She then took two months off And went home to the UK for like a visit Or a break And then went back to work Sorry ah So when she went back she flew to LAX to work on the Disney Wonder So that was one of their ah believe newer ships at the time Yeah
01:10:58
Speaker
Sounds cool. I feel like I remember one. They're always coming out with new ones. Oh, it's the wonder. It's the magic. It's this. Yeah. Yeah. ah Does it have a water slide that goes from the second story into the pool? That's what know.
01:11:14
Speaker
Aren't they crazy? Rock climbing wall. Because that's what like, this is a theme park on top of a cruise ship in the middle of the... ah I need a i need a pool in this cruise ship.
01:11:28
Speaker
On the ocean. i Yeah, on one hand I get the appeal, you know, be better than a ah bus tour because they're like, you only have to unpack a pack once. But like, yeah, you are on a giant, giant ship.
01:11:44
Speaker
Yeah. Like the modern mall of the Titanic. No, I don't know. It's great.
01:11:55
Speaker
Pardon me. The ship left port on March 21st, 2011. And Becky messaged Rebecca, Becky, whatever. she Becky was on her name tag.
01:12:06
Speaker
so I was like, she probably went by that.
01:12:10
Speaker
Messaged her parents she would call them the next day. ah They get a call from the ship the next day, but it's not their daughter. It's the staff supervisor saying she missed her shift that day. okay.
01:12:24
Speaker
Pardon of me. Yeah. Not sure what time it was, but they could not locate her at all um at this point when they searched. Huh.
01:12:35
Speaker
And yeah, she had not been seen at all that day. she Yeah. So she had been seen on camera before her shift speaking on an internal phone, which I assume is just one that calls other phones in the ship.
01:12:53
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she appeared upset and on the camera footage, but Disney, so unsurprisingly almost, has been not quite forthcoming, according to some sources, about any information.
01:13:09
Speaker
Of course. We'll get a little bit to that, but there was no fault admitted as to why she might not have been seen after that, and their main theories... All her cameras simultaneously stopped working.
01:13:25
Speaker
Yeah. We know, we think this happened, but we don't know where. And we don't have any proof. Jeez. But yeah, the main theory put forth is that she might have gone overboard.
01:13:41
Speaker
guess. Probably by Disney. Or probably they're pushing that theory. I don't know. Yeah. That's what it mostly says. um The family, the Coriams, who are from the city of Chester, have been disappointed by the lack of police work into the case.
01:13:59
Speaker
And even the mayor of Chester commented, ah his name is Stephen Mosley, and he was quoted as saying the investigation into Rebecca's disappearance was appalling. Oh, wow.
01:14:13
Speaker
that's not good no
01:14:17
Speaker
pardon me sorry the last footage of her was seen at uh 5 45 a.m m three hours prior to her shift uh she was caught on cctv in a crew area on the phone um somebody in the footage walks up to her and asks if she's all right and to which she repents responds yeah fine and she hangs up the call Hmm.
01:14:40
Speaker
Would you like to... I should have put... There's a picture... Like, there is a picture of her from the footage. ah From that call. Which... It ran out of time.
01:14:57
Speaker
ah The ship was searched. Three days later, a detective is sent up from the Bahamas to investigate and spends less than two days on board. Hmm. That's not wrong.
01:15:10
Speaker
Yeah, no. So that he came up from where the ship's registered, I guess.
01:15:16
Speaker
He talked to some crew. Most of the guests had left, and again, it was three days later, so they didn't really try to secure the scene. Yeah.
01:15:29
Speaker
Mike and Anna Maria, Becky's parents, flew to LAX to meet with the crew of the Wonder, but got few answers. They spoke to the crew member who Rebecca had been talking to on the phone and she said they'd ended the call on good terms. She wasn't upset any anymore.
01:15:45
Speaker
um But the weird part is when they're told that she was probably washed overboard by a rogue wave and they specifically think that happened on deck five, which was a crew pool area. So there was like swimming pools for the crew.
01:16:05
Speaker
i I never get it when they say, oh, somebody fell overboard. Somebody did this. Like, are your railings not high enough? Like, what's happening that people are just fool all the time gone? Oh, we're totally unsafe. Yeah.
01:16:17
Speaker
In this one instance. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They're like, okay, well, like, make the gaps in your railings. but smaller and make your railings taller than if your excuse is that people are going over the railings every five minutes.
01:16:34
Speaker
It makes no sense to me. But are they? I mean, yeah I know there was a toddler or something that accidentally fell through an open window, but they were with a
01:16:50
Speaker
ah a family member or something at the time. But yeah, totally, it's and totally insane. ah They're like a rogue wave, you know, totally probably came up and got rid of her, but yeah nothing else.
01:17:04
Speaker
um And left behind either a slipper or a sandal, depending on what you read or I guess what you call it. and And that was the detail when I was like, but wait, I've heard this case before.
01:17:19
Speaker
I just... yeah thought it was like a guest and I thought they were just like oh yeah and then then she got swept off and then there was her like flip flop was all that was left but I was like no it's a fucking crew member it's even crazier i don't know huh yeah this that kind of reminds me of the one I covered last time that I was on a cruise and it was the lady and then her her purse or whatever was found by her another guest or something on one of the other decks and
01:17:51
Speaker
the cruise line wouldn't secure the scene so like the guests and then her family that was traveling with her like secured the scene and wouldn't let anybody on the deck and they were taking pictures and um like trying to like keep the evidence from being contaminated or something and the crew members were trying to clean it up and they're like don't you touch it like it was crazy shit i'd see i and now i'm having no recollection of that one basically at all oh that's crazy Yeah, i think I covered it um one of the other times.
01:18:24
Speaker
Huh. Yeah. I don't remember. I don't think I'd talk about that one, though. Yeah, people having to actually secure it themselves is crazy bonkers.
01:18:35
Speaker
Yeah, for like hours. They did it for hours. Because they don't know. They're not trained to deal with it. Yeah. I feel like cruise lines, do they have police?
01:18:48
Speaker
Like, do they have a police? A couple police officers or something on a cruise? They should. I they have some security. They obviously have the security cameras. They have a morgue. they People do die, whether from natural cause causes or not. They should have, yeah like, a morgue.
01:19:07
Speaker
like more more security or or something it couldn't hurt that's for sure yeah right it couldn't hurt a few more security guards especially in the nightclubs where they're pushing like all the alcohol and everything yeah yeah and just chucking people overboard blaming on all the rogue waves yeah it it washed her off of deck five but nobody else Yeah.
01:19:34
Speaker
I was standing right beside her. That was fun. Oh, it's so maddening. i think that's why that part stuck with me. And it wasn't until i actually started into that that was like, that was this one.
01:19:45
Speaker
But there's so many similar ones. Yeah. Yeah. um Okay, so there's more. In October, a British journalist sailed on the Wonder and discreetly asked questions.
01:19:56
Speaker
came away with the anonymous comments from the crew that there was a cover-up of info, that there's cameras everywhere, and that the company basically sees everything. So this is yeah word of mouth, but take it as you will.
01:20:11
Speaker
ah There was no sign of her on the Deck 5 cameras, nor Deck 4, where some other people theorized that she was jogging and probably fell. So just another theory that I can't find any, you know...
01:20:26
Speaker
Proof or evidence? Weird. Yeah. Um, yeah, other weird things. A few weeks after she went missing, an alert came from Rebecca's bank that her credit card had been used or attempted to be used.
01:20:40
Speaker
Oh.
01:20:43
Speaker
Allegedly. i don't know. Um, one year after her disappearance, a possible sighting was reported in Venice of Rebecca. The witness was 85% it was her.
01:20:55
Speaker
um mean, that comes up in some other cases, I find, where people think they see them after. Yeah. But and their family reported that in September of the, I think the same year she disappeared, her uncle noticed her Facebook password changed. So there was some like weird online stuff.
01:21:19
Speaker
Okay. don't know how they know, but like, yeah, you can't discount that, I guess.
01:21:30
Speaker
her family were obviously devastated to lose their daughter who they described as cheerful and upbeat they were told that she appeared drunk and furious on the ctt cctv footage sorry drunk drunk at five in the morning three hours before her shift starts i don't think yeah yeah and and you the cctv footage shows her on the phone I did put that picture up.
01:21:56
Speaker
and And the person she was talking to didn't say she seemed drunk. so No, upset maybe, but that was it yeah Wow. She certainly doesn't look drunk, I don't think. like they I do think she looks upset, but can't really tell. them um They also told were told that she'd been recorded banging her head against the wall.
01:22:19
Speaker
However, that was never shown on camera to anyone.
01:22:24
Speaker
so hmm weird
01:22:32
Speaker
basically they've been left high and dry by the cruise line investigators with no answers detectives won't call them back and government officials like the chester mayor we mentioned have highly criticized the handling of the case yeah Yeah, it's just one of many, unfortunately.
01:22:49
Speaker
This article mentioned 170 passengers and crew having gone missing since 2000. two thousand ah That was from internationalcruiseshipvictims.org in 2021. Oh, wow.
01:23:02
Speaker
I thought it was going to be more. oh yeah. But, like, that's a few. I mean. Yeah. Yeah. Having just no explanation.
01:23:14
Speaker
but like the amount of cruises that are happening every day with how many people on each of them, that doesn't seem like a lot.
01:23:27
Speaker
Yeah, it's it's hard to um measure for me. I'm like... it's like, cause like you compare it to something that obviously apples to oranges, but like air travel where you're like, it can be scary, but like you obviously just, you don't usually just go missing off the flight.
01:23:48
Speaker
Get sucked right through that bathroom toilet when you flush. Oh God. What did we just start watching? and Like three people have died on the fucking plane already. Richard Armachage is in it. Oh my God.
01:24:02
Speaker
I have to think of the name. I'll to ask Pat. We just started it like yesterday. Anywho, some authorities have ah looked into it and raised the red flags. Like there was a former commander of special operations at Scotland yard ah named Roy Ram. So like to be top of the authorities of the UK police, basically.
01:24:26
Speaker
um He is now retired and had been working as a private investigator. It looked into the case for the family And he told the newspaper, the son, somebody on that vessel was unquestionably responsible for her death.
01:24:41
Speaker
so that's how he feels um he points out some things like the bahama detective stayed only about one day when he came out on march 25th and that also him being from the bahamas where the ship is registered means they have a vested interest in keeping the ship at sea making money basically yeah a little conflict um They had almost been to Puerto Vallarta when she vanished, but I doubt that the Mexican authorities would have any jurisdiction at all.
01:25:13
Speaker
Probably not. Right. Roy Ram had more to say. The ex-Met sleuth said, They chose to fly in an investigator from the Bahamas, where the ship is registered, and where there is a very keen financial interest in looking after Disney as a valued contributor to Bahamian economy. Yeah.
01:25:33
Speaker
What they should have done was called in more experienced investigators, maybe from the FBI, from l LA, where the ship was heading, or even pulling into a port in Mexico and bringing somebody on board. Yeah, I think the FBI should be involved.
01:25:48
Speaker
Right? Well, certainly, you'd think people would be less bold if if they did get involved in these type of cases. don't know. Yeah, because, like... um I feel like you need the ultimate, like, umbrella of knowledge and access that, like, the FBI would grant to investigate something like a cruise ship that just has, like, so many guests and so many employees and there's so much going on and everything. Like, you can't leave that up to like, local people somebody.
01:26:22
Speaker
Like, it should be the FBI. If that's not what the FBI does, then whose jurisdiction is it, really? Yeah, yeah. Ooh, pardon me. He went on to say, but what appeared to me was that their main objective was to keep the ship on schedule rather than having their primary concern of investigating the crime.
01:26:45
Speaker
Yeah. So one guy came on board the ship, a detective superintendent, and he came on board on his own. He had no forensic support. He conducted his investigation within realistically 36 hours, including sleep.
01:26:59
Speaker
and his interviews with witnesses were perfunctory. None of that paperwork has ever been released to the family. Huh. There were freedom of information requests sent to the chief constable of the force where the Coriums lived, and they refused to release the material.
01:27:14
Speaker
ah This is not a state secret. This is a young woman who has disappeared in a really distressing, in really dis distressing circumstances on board a cruise vessel. It was a very, very poor investigation. Quickly done, inadequate, inadequate forensic investigation.
01:27:27
Speaker
Huh. examination it was just terrible and end quote yeah and then they're trying to say she's drunk but a rogue wave hit her but here's her flip-flop but yeah you're right because they said in the footage that you know yeah she was yeah banging her head against the wall like trying to um destabilize the witness or uh that's not the right word but you know what i mean yeah decredit them or discredit
01:28:00
Speaker
um So the questions remain a lot in this case. ah The camera footage, lack thereof. And why does... Oh, yeah. Why does her clothing appear baggy and large in the video? A lot of people point out that maybe she's wearing men's clothing or clothing that aren't hers.
01:28:17
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I can see that in the thing I noticed. It does look... Like, her so even though the the picture is not very clear, you can tell, like, the silhouette... doesn't really match her frame.
01:28:30
Speaker
Like she's not filling those clothes out in any way. oh no. Yeah. And if you see other pictures of her, which I did not provide, but they are available. She's yeah, quite, quite slim and stuff. So.
01:28:42
Speaker
Um, they're like, why does the CTV footage say she is on deck six, I guess during the call, but they say it looks more like deck one, particularly by a crew members cabin, whose name was Devin Hyde.
01:28:59
Speaker
Couldn't look into that further. Cause I was like, I don't have time, but these are all fascinating. Um, why no footage of her falling overboard anywhere, any deck, um,
01:29:10
Speaker
ah Why would there be no damage if there was a rogue wave, which would have had to been over 100 feet high to hit her on that deck? Jeez. Did the ship turn around to search in the right area, like where the Mexican Coast Guard were told to search was not...
01:29:27
Speaker
where they would have been when she, I don't know. Because it's always moving, right? So they're like never at the same spot where the like ship was. And they were like, why did the Bahamian government offered offer to hold the coroner's inquest and secret?
01:29:43
Speaker
So that's the many questions we have with her case. Unfortunately. Yeah, that's weird. It's very upsetting.
01:29:54
Speaker
Like, yeah, an employee of yours has gone missing. Yeah. And you can't account for it.
01:30:06
Speaker
So as much as that sucks, there's just so many. um i think another one that people usually talk about is, like, pretty well known called Amy, like the one about Amy Bradley, I should say, not called, but.
01:30:20
Speaker
Um, she was another white woman that went missing off a cruise ship. So I did say it got some attention. It's been on a few podcasts before, so I won't delve into that one too much, but, um,
01:30:33
Speaker
again it's like vanished into thin air she was 23 years old a university grad on vacation with her family in march 1998 um a bit reluctant to go on the cruise unfortunately she was a bit scared of heights and things but she ended up deciding to go with her family yeah damn her her mom and her dad and her brother ringing any bells kelsey i'm sorry so mean what's wrong with me Um, but yeah, it's just like their, their little close knit family. Her and her brother's name was Brad, which I'm like to point out as Brad Bradley, just saying, Oh no, I'm so mean.
01:31:12
Speaker
Um, but they had been out like what gets me they've been out dancing they were recorded as coming back into the house about 3 35 and they both had like fallen asleep on the balcony and then um by the time it was 6 a.m like this was all in the same room her dad woke up and checked went to check on them but she was not on the balcony anymore she was gone huh and like people think like somehow she must have gone back out of the room or been taken or something but like i that's the one where i'm like you were out on the fucking balcony and like your family was around so unless you went back out or something i don't really get it but there's been many possible sightings reported where people think they see her out and about
01:32:01
Speaker
People think she's been trafficked. They suspect the crew member she was dancing closely with knows something. They've been dancing and hanging out with the band and and the band member called Alistair Yellow Douglas.
01:32:19
Speaker
I almost don't want to like him because Alistair yellow eyes Crowley. No, too much supernatural. Oh, I'm sorry. um there's just nothing lighthearted in these. It's terrible. No, like, and that one's never been solved. The family originally from Petersburg, Virginia, which I was like, could you be any more my name?
01:32:40
Speaker
No, my mother's name. Uh, yeah Yeah, they were super close and and they had won the cruise. Why does this reoccur in some of the cases where they like win a cruise and someone goes missing?
01:32:56
Speaker
i i think we did another case where somebody won the cruise. Oh, could totally believe it. I'm sure I've heard one. And it's ah like this one was on Royal Caribbean's Rhapsody of the Seas, which like what gets me to sometimes is it's all...
01:33:12
Speaker
different cruise lines, Disney, you know, kind of top of the line or closer to, and like Royal Caribbean, still pretty nice family friendly, like, billie there's it's all of them.
01:33:24
Speaker
This next one is from, they were traveling on Carnival cruise ship, which there can be a little bit of a cheaper and maybe more of a ah party cruise line, more affordable, but like it's every kind of fucking ship.
01:33:38
Speaker
Yeah. And this one, had never heard of it. It's a senior couple. So these Vietnam couple, their names were Hugh Pham and Hugh Tran. Yeah.
01:33:49
Speaker
And they were from California and they were traveling on the carnival cruise ship destiny, which like, don't even get me started. That's what the ship was called. They were on a trip with their daughter and granddaughter. Like they had been, their daughter bought it for them for a mother's day gift, basically.
01:34:08
Speaker
Oh no. Like they win the cruises, they gift the cruises and all these sad things happen and it's horrible. They were 71 and 67, but married for 49 years.
01:34:21
Speaker
And, now sadly enough, had already made a harrowing escape from war when they left Vietnam during what I'm calling the American conflict. Because they wouldn't have seen it as the Vietnam War.
01:34:34
Speaker
no And at that point, they spent two weeks at sea adrift with little food or water. god. Oh my god. Recurring themes.
01:34:46
Speaker
But like no how i'm not I'm sorry. It's so fucked up that like they survived that and then they go on this cruise and then they vanish. Yeah.
01:34:58
Speaker
They did not return from this trip. They were lost somehow at sea while cruising through the Caribbean seas on May 12, 2005. They were between Barbados and Aruba.
01:35:09
Speaker
Their daughter discovered her mom's sandals on deck. Her mom was nowhere around. Next, they found her book and her purse nearby, but no other traces of her or her husband.
01:35:20
Speaker
And the whole ship was searched. Wow. And, like, you fucking know if my book is gone. i have been beamed up by the aliens. Like, I don't go anywhere without my book. shoes, your purse, your books.
01:35:34
Speaker
Yeah, man. like It's like they got beamed fucking up. um A quote on the International Cruise Line. victim's website said following our parents disappearance the crew waited for over oh sorry for over four hours before notifying the U.S. Coast Guard and allowed the ship Destiny to further distance itself from the location where our parents were originally reported missing.
01:35:57
Speaker
Too much time had elapsed between the U.S. Coast Guard notification and the first search and rescue from the Netherlands Coast Guard. Under the direction of the U.S. Coast Guard to participate in the search mission it still took more than 12 hours for the Destiny vessel to return to the original location.
01:36:13
Speaker
Wow, that's a long time. They must have gone really far. that's why it's so inefficient. Yeah.
01:36:22
Speaker
The search was called off less than 13 hours later. Not much detail was given to the family, Kelsa Pries. The itinerary was changed, but the cruise continued on to St. Martin instead of Aruba, and then stopped finally in San Juan, Puerto Rico.
01:36:39
Speaker
That's where the rest of their party was able to disembark. Cause remember they were with their daughter and granddaughter on the trip. Oh yeah.
01:36:50
Speaker
Terrible. They had radio silence, no return calls, the standard response it would seem to these type of investigations.
01:37:00
Speaker
The family vehemently denies any theories of self-harm or any reason why their parents would want to go missing as if that would be a you know I feel like seniors aren't doing that shit I know right but why is it always like the easiest thing yeah they're like well of course they ran away or suicide you know you feel like they're honest oh yeah everything that a suicidal person does live to the age of 70 escaped their war-torn country to live sakes
01:37:35
Speaker
Go on a cruise with their daughter and their granddaughter. like get off themselves. Jesus. Exactly. In fact, their son, whose name was son, Michael Pham.
01:37:48
Speaker
So their son, son, Michael Pham, said they've been planning a trip back to Vietnam. He'd scoured their home for clues, answers, anything. And he came up with nothing. I think he was just trying to make sense of it all.
01:38:01
Speaker
now he later told an inquiry two american citizens with no person personal or financial problems no serious health problems living the happiest time of their lives both vanish without a trace or witness like yeah they're on fucking vacation
01:38:18
Speaker
and two of them why two i've never heard of it where two people oh you can't tell me these different senior citizens from you know like living in california like that they're gonna be trafficked or something like not for sex work not for any kind of work it's that rogue wave
01:38:41
Speaker
just comes up and it grabs them and it just it's that rogue wave for me bro um sinister I was watching something on their like patreon where they're reacting to a ah video and it was like a tiktok or something that was like if titanic was today and it was like people um you know like live reacting would be like ah it's that it's that ice water for me, bro. Not us dying in the Atlantic. It was like all this like how people would react to it today.
01:39:15
Speaker
oh so funny. um Yeah, and it's just like there's many more mentioned in the wonderful article I read where found out later she wrote a whole book.
Risks and Humor in Cruise Discussions
01:39:30
Speaker
Oh
01:39:33
Speaker
this great info from Gwyn Toph, Topham, Topham, who wrote the Guardian article I read and has a book called like Overboard and all about cruise disappearances.
01:39:47
Speaker
There was one 62 year old German woman on a Cunard cruise line, which by the way, I think they're a pretty fancy one. Cunard, I believe are like yachts speaking of. Well, never heard of that one.
01:39:58
Speaker
I just used to have to give out the, cruise brochures when I worked in travel
01:40:05
Speaker
um and she was just gone and there was also a mention of a Scottish pensioner which is like their seniors and she got lost in the Atlantic just fucking terrifying what is happening to your screen Gordo just came interfering did Gordo you know what I have a little more time on the floor but I am almost done buddy you have to stay on that side Stay over there.
01:40:34
Speaker
It's okay. i'm He's like, just fucking pet Just pet me! He's trying to lay on the laptop now. Oh, Fen will go from one of us to the other. if i pet him for a minute and that's not enough, well, I'm just gonna sit by dad's feet and see what I can get over here.
01:40:51
Speaker
My little boy. my floopy little boy. Excuse me. Okay, you can't lay your head on the laptop. You're going to push buttons. Put this on the floor then if you're close it out with a few more sad facts if you guys are not too depressed yet.
01:41:17
Speaker
You know what's happening.
01:41:20
Speaker
Yep. Alright. Oh shit. I'm going to plug in my computer.
Justice and Investigation Challenges on Cruises
01:41:27
Speaker
kelsey and that are dying yeah okay a u.s congressional subcommittee was tasked with examining the risk of a cruise vacation chairman chris chase said there was a growing manifest of unexplained disappearances unsolved crimes and brazen acts of lawlllineness lawlessness on the high seas And ah continued to say, like small cities, cruise ships experience crimes, but city dwellers know the risk of urban life, and no one falls off a city never to be heard of again. What?
01:42:03
Speaker
I mean, because you can just boop! yeah nobody nobody goes missing in cities guys nobody goes missing nobody disappears well they do but you can't just push them off into the giant sea very easily but there's lakes and rivers oh she's thought about it there's a pond by my house kelsey what are you planning i'm gonna push you straight into that pond
01:42:33
Speaker
No, rogue wave is going to come out of the pond and take you and Ben. Oh my god. Oh, I heard about some podcast drama between two girls that did not have a company with their podcast and they split.
01:42:50
Speaker
i don't know. It was like, it was it would be like if you went off and it was like, I'm going to start castles and crawdads or something. like took half our listeners. I don't know. It was like they changed the name slightly or something. Weird.
01:43:06
Speaker
I'll take the the true crime. You take the paranormal. like In the divorce.
01:43:18
Speaker
Yeah. That's how we're splitting our asses. Yeah. We're not going screw each other over. um Okay. I'll end it with Oh yeah, he's he ended his quote with going on a cruise was, he said, perhaps the perfect way to commit the perfect crime.
01:43:35
Speaker
Which like, I don't know. Sometimes, sometimes I think, why do people kill people in hotels? And then sometimes I'm like, well, if nobody hears you. I think it's just like, it's not the perfect crime. It's other people covering it up for you because they want to avoid bad publicity. It's not because you're doing a great job being a killer. Right. It's the perfect accomplice, almost. Yeah.
01:44:03
Speaker
It's... Yeah, it's just like the environment that it is. True. And and that is a good segue to the last... I'm going to make it my last point here. Because that it's gone on to say how there was... Even if you're rich, the father of one missing passenger, who for anonymity's sake was only known as M, he has spent tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees and private investigators trying to find answers to what happened to his daughter.
01:44:32
Speaker
uh when she went missing from the celebrity cruise lines ship mercury and the celebrity cruise line is also a fancy one i'm just gonna say oh i haven't heard of that one either know it sounds does it sound fake it's called celebrity Yeah.
01:44:50
Speaker
No, it's one of the nicer ones. um They allegedly basically told him it was likely suicide and he was like, what the fuck? And I also ran across some awful cases that ended in sexual assault and murder. But you know what?
01:45:09
Speaker
Maybe we'll save those for another day. Because that's basically another topic and I've depressed myself to death. yeah oh my god that's a lot there's so it was i'm sorry that's why i'm like i have another one about a lady named diane brimble which was a case in australia but perhaps i don't you know just want to relegate it to the end of this because it um she was found dead and it was quite horrific and you know even when someone's body is found it goes to show there was like
01:45:41
Speaker
Not a lot you can do always to prosecute still. Wow. Yeah. So it's really shitty. It's like there's sexual assault. There's people going missing. Like definitely be cautious.
01:45:56
Speaker
We're not saying never go out and do anything again. Sinisterhood and a bunch of other podcasters are doing a crime ah get together where you can buy tickets and go cruise with them in November.
True Crime Podcasts and Community
01:46:07
Speaker
And like. really not saying i would ever be opposed to going on a cruise but like i think one with a bunch of true crime podcasters would probably be the one for me still have some people looking out for you don't know like i couldn't do a long one like maybe a week or like 11 days or something but i don't think i could do the ones that are like two three weeks a month Oh, no Those are typically like for retirees, people that really can't afford it with the time and the money. Yeah, that's a lot.
01:46:42
Speaker
Oh, yeah. No, i for your four to seven days are are pretty standard, I think. An Alaska cruise actually is supposed to be very beautiful. So I don't want to like shit all over anybody and be like, never go to your house again. that's i don't want to be that kind of true crime podcaster.
01:46:57
Speaker
But it's definitely a little a little creepy. Yeah. Gordo is so needy right now, buddy. So needy.
01:47:10
Speaker
Is he going to make an appearance? Work for it, Gordo. Make us the content.
01:47:16
Speaker
This is him. He's laying down right now. it was I don't know if I told you. I was watching a bunch of that show that's called Taskmaster and they make them do weird tasks and it's british and kind of improv-y and they were like call someone named john and he called his friend and was like i just wanted you to know how much you mean to me and he was like oh yeah and whose podcast are you on right now the guy replies over the phone what you mean i can't just tell you how much i love you yeah yeah yeah who's got a gun to your head whose content are you creating
01:47:49
Speaker
and That's so good. I laughed so hard when they were like bashing podcasters and stuff. It was so funny. The scourge of the earth. they'd be like, oh, and and those guys too. And you'd be like, hey!
01:48:03
Speaker
We're not a plague. But yeah, we kind of are. Some people out there are a plague. Right? Infecting the masses.
Diverse Topics and Closing Remarks
01:48:14
Speaker
Yeah.
01:48:16
Speaker
We're not here to give you financial tips or... Oh gosh.
01:48:22
Speaker
Health advice, I guess. I don't think so. No, that's not what we're about. No, I don't want to be known for anything like that. and was reading a book the other day and I was like, oh shit, I forgot that the Incel original website was started by a Canadian student named Alana.
01:48:42
Speaker
Why? Why? Everything can go so wrong.
01:48:48
Speaker
I didn't that. Yeah, they were like, something that was started for by a woman for a positive reason got so used so badly. Damn.
01:49:00
Speaker
Oh, God. Yeah, things can go out of your control. yeah Yeah, so we'll just we'll just keep a hold on this podcast and keep it as a...
01:49:14
Speaker
He's just nuzzling his little his little head into my arm. He's so cute! He must be, because your face is so cute. I'm gonna cry, so cute! He keeps going like this, and then he goes into my arm. nuzzling?
01:49:31
Speaker
Yeah. He was nuzzling his little face into my arm. Oh Alright, well Gordo, we shall let you nuzzle. We will see you next week. Oh, now he's trying to nuzzle the mic.
01:49:46
Speaker
Don't do that. All right. It's okay. People love it when make pets make appearances. They're always laughing at Fortune Feimster's dog Biggie on the handsome pod and how he has dead shark eyes.
01:49:59
Speaker
But he's so cute. But he is so cute.
01:50:03
Speaker
All right. ah Yes, next week we're going to do some cryptids on the East Coast. So I'm very excited for that. I kind of pushed for it. I thought it might be fun. So yeah.
01:50:16
Speaker
We'll catch you next time. Bye. Gordo says bye too.