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198: Castles, Cryptids & Cults
49 Plays3 days ago
Happy September cryptic cuties, hope you are enjoying the last of the warm weather before we dive straight into fall and pumpkin spice everything. This week we investigated a few more cults we wanted to share with you all, we hope you find cults as fascinating as we do.
Kelsey creeps Alanna out by telling her about a group that hit a little too close to home. The College of Integrated Philosophy may seem harmless on the surface, but they have had their fair share of controversy and court cases over their decades long history.
Alanna shares updates on a cult we first discussed over on our patreon after watching Escaping The Twin Flames Universe, leaders Jeff and Shaleia Divine were recently interviewed about their beliefs, and it has everyone talking about them once again. Happy listening!
Darkcast spotlight is The Bell Witch Podcast
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Transcript
Introduction and Banter
00:00:04
Speaker
Darkcast Network. Indie pods with a dark side.
00:00:30
Speaker
You are listening to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted, and the cryptids are cryptic as fuck. And I'm Alanna. And I'm Kelsey. And this is Happy Episode 198, I think. Yeah.
00:00:47
Speaker
Can't believe that. Only a couple more to 200! Can you believe Yes, we'll have to think about that. And thank you guys for bearing with us during our bi-weekly episode schedule as we get things back on track.
00:01:08
Speaker
Don't mind Gordo. He's playing with a toy. It's so cute. I heard that, whatever it was.
00:01:17
Speaker
You're going to be so distracted. He's like, I got this bottle cap. Life is good. Oh, sounded louder than a bottle cap. well No, he's rolling around on top of it.
00:01:32
Speaker
Like throwing it in the air. Anyway.
00:01:39
Speaker
oh
00:01:43
Speaker
Yep, it's a cat. I don't know what I'm saying.
00:01:50
Speaker
Do your cats like bottle caps?
00:01:53
Speaker
camera Our mask cat does. Mask cat. Oh, yeah.
00:02:00
Speaker
He wants us to be part of the cat cult. Oh, no, there's nothing that makes the cats chill out. Is there like catnip? Doesn't that make them go crazier? or whatever? Oh, there's like cat wine that's supposed to calm them down.
00:02:15
Speaker
Oh, my God. yeah We saw something when we were at the market. It was like those long fabric sticks for cats or something. forget what they were stuck with.
00:02:27
Speaker
You said you had one. Cordo! He brought me back the bottle cap and it's like, throw it! You're so cute! Can you pick this up in your teeth?
00:02:42
Speaker
Can you pick this up in your teeth?
Market Visit Stories
00:02:44
Speaker
This is why we need some video sometimes he's so cute it's like mom i thought we were playing catch here
00:02:57
Speaker
yeah we were just watching one of the modern family episodes where they adopt some ducks sort of accidentally and then one of them ends up playing fetch really well so that's kind of funny oh nice all of them playing fetch better than my dog
00:03:16
Speaker
Oh, he doesn't play fetch for you again? no he's not. He's bored by it most the time. if it's his idea, yeah like he came running up to me. I ran out to the store to make sure had enough beverages for our recording session.
00:03:37
Speaker
And I came back home after like 10 minutes. Nothing was long. And he ran up to the door with his like toy in his mouth and then And then i like grabbed it and then I threw it and then he kind of went after it. But like, if you just throw a stick or something, he's like, eh.
00:03:51
Speaker
If it's not my idea, I'm not interested kind of thing. Like, they're very much like lazy or like cats sometimes. Like he does.
00:04:02
Speaker
Buddy old pal. Yeah.
00:04:07
Speaker
Um, yeah, I don't think we talked about we went to a big market last weekend. Um, because we haven't recorded since then. That was fucking fun. I just finished the butter tarts and everything today.
00:04:24
Speaker
They were like Chicago deep dish butter tarts. They were big. They were. were like twice as deep and delicious. That's what she said.
00:04:34
Speaker
Yeah.
00:04:37
Speaker
Oh my god, no, they had so many good, like, treats, and... Yeah. I remember I was, like, saying to you that we had to... ah if I don't get a meat pie before we leave, I'll be mad.
Cult-Like Devotion in Pop Culture
00:04:48
Speaker
But then we got, like, halfway through, and we'd been looking at so many jewelry stands, and starting to get faint, and was like, I'm gonna get this from whatever food stand and got that bratwurst, which was good. But then we had to circle back to get the meat pie, which was amazing. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:04
Speaker
And I was glad was really, really good. Yeah. That was a tortillera. Fuck yeah. Like a delicious little meat pie situation.
00:05:16
Speaker
Yeah. It's almost like those British ones you get. Yeah. They're just like Guinness We're full of meat and goodness and flakiness. Yeah.
00:05:27
Speaker
Shit. That place was big though. Yeah. We were talking about cults. I don't think we did any sort of intro yet.
00:05:40
Speaker
Nope. I said castles and cryptids and cults. Or maybe that's just what I named the recording session.
00:05:48
Speaker
And then it became castles and cryptids and cats. No. Just kidding.
00:05:55
Speaker
Does your cats bother you guys? You know? We feel ya. He's like a hairy little toddler. Absolutely. Yeah, it's like ridiculous.
00:06:08
Speaker
um It's funny because there's yeah shows out now called like Sounds Like a Cult and they're talking about... there's Disney people and people that love this show
The Staring Cult: College of Integrated Philosophy
00:06:19
Speaker
and that show.
00:06:20
Speaker
ah If I'm guilty of any of them, I probably have the outlander obsessed cult. You know what i mean? Like people that like cats, everything can be a cult. When you think about how like devoted people are to certain things nowadays, which is kind of funny.
00:06:36
Speaker
Yeah. They're definitely like, Oh, reality TV shows ah get a cult like following. Yeah.
00:06:46
Speaker
people get very defensive of their favorite um reality tv personalities and stuff on like reddit you would think they're defending like the traitors oh my gosh people would be like this person's crazy well i watched someone survivor her and you just don't know her and you just don't get her and she's amazing just like oh my completely divided they're just people man oh
00:07:15
Speaker
Yeah.
00:07:18
Speaker
Hopefully we have some that are maybe creepy to talk about. Some of them are very scary. Yeah, this one's a little different that I stumbled upon. i't be interested to see if you've heard of it because I had not.
00:07:34
Speaker
o okay. That is intriguing. Because we haven't covered a lot. also. No, and this one's a little different.
00:07:49
Speaker
Not like the one you covered where they had a lot of nude protests. and I don't remember a lot about that one. Oh yeah, they were like setting fires in the nude.
00:08:03
Speaker
Yeah, it was like we think of cults as being problematic in different ways, but this one was it was interesting. I don't think I've heard many of the people cover it, but then I was like, oh yeah, they were probably a little bad. Aren't they all? Or whatever. yeah ah This one has an interesting name.
00:08:27
Speaker
They all kind of do, I guess. They're the College of Integrated Philosophy.
00:08:36
Speaker
College, eh? Yeah, the College of Integrated Philosophy. No, I don't think that sounds familiar. It sounds very mundane also.
00:08:48
Speaker
a little, like yeah. Like an online college or something. Yeah, here's your textbook. The exam's on Friday. yeah like there's some new agey one, but I think it's just called like the Monroe Institute.
00:09:01
Speaker
And you're like, ooh, you can't tell anything. That's just a name. but yeah, this one's interesting. This is run by John D. Reuter. think that's how you'd say his last name.
00:09:16
Speaker
think I just call him John most of the the way here. i here ill I'll kind of describe what the gatherings, meetings, you could call them.
00:09:29
Speaker
okay. What they kind of look like, and then we'll get into a bit of the background and how it came about. Gatherings is fancy. Yeah, this John guy, he typically would sits on an elevated stage or platform in this large armchair that's located at the front of a room. And it's facing a packed auditorium.
00:09:55
Speaker
So he's facing everybody in the audience, like ah kind of like a public speaker would. Right. But it's a very comfy armchair, because they're going to be there quite a while.
00:10:06
Speaker
um no. And...
00:10:09
Speaker
On each side of John's chair are large video screens that are projecting extreme close-ups of John's face to the crowd. Ew.
00:10:23
Speaker
Jumbotron. ah Yeah, I don't love this. No. Over the course of several hours, everyone silently stares at John while he stares back.
00:10:35
Speaker
one by one making eye contact with each person in the room ew
00:10:43
Speaker
yeah so like there's hundreds of people there and they're all just like looking at him yeah big old staring contest yeah so sometimes this group is called the staring cult because that's so gross It is basically them just staring at him and him staring back at you, guess.
00:11:13
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, that makes me feel some type of way. I don't know what to It's a little unsettling to think about. I just, yeah, i anything i related can have a tendency to creep me out when it's in that kind of, yeah you're watching a horror movie or something. I'm like,
00:11:33
Speaker
Like we just watched something where the, it was, it had Pete Davidson. It wasn't bad. it was called the home. He like has to go work in an old folks home as part of his like, um, community service or something after conviction.
00:11:50
Speaker
And like the, the thumbnail or like the, whatever it kept going back to on, um, crave or whatever we were watching it on was like you know like the clockwork orange like someone's eye being like oh medically yeah like somebody was gonna stick something in it and i was like oh can they stop was like can you stop leaving it on that fucking image it's horrifying just yeah anything zoomed in on an eye or whatever it creeps me out it's all it takes yeah good movie um
00:12:25
Speaker
I do have some testimonials later. There was a fantastic article on vice.com. i think I have a shout out to the author even um later on that actually attended one of these meetings and give gave his like experience of what happened. He attended, i think, two meetings in one day.
00:12:46
Speaker
and ah yeah, that article was like phenomenal. It was very detailed. yeah. Yeah, so I do have some quotes because he did interview a couple people that were there and stuff. So yeah, we'll get into that a little bit later.
00:13:04
Speaker
um But people say that this John when he's staring at you, he's staring straight into your soul. And others say that they can see in aura around John during these sometimes longer than three hour staring sessions.
00:13:23
Speaker
oh or me your eyes are just crossing at that point right you talk about like their eyes are watering especially john's like um sometimes the meetings are just the first hour is he's just staring at everybody blankly and they're staring back and it's dead silent like nobody ever talks And then the second hour moves into him one by one starting to go through and he like makes eye contact with each person individually for like a couple minutes at a time.
00:13:54
Speaker
But there's like 300 people there. I think so. He just is somehow able to do it not too often. a i guess. But there's like 300 people at some of these meetings. So it takes a really long time for him to get through everybody.
00:14:11
Speaker
so my god. Yeah. I'm sorry, but it reminds me of a weird Taskmaster thing where they were supposed not to blink. And I saw a clip of one from like Norway?
00:14:25
Speaker
I don't know. But they were like, the one guy was like, this isn't even hard for me. Other people like holding their eyes open with their like hands. And he was just like, I'm cool. I got places to be. Can we do this? But have the camera follow me. And he just went for like almost three hours without blinking.
00:14:40
Speaker
He like drove home. was like, that's crazy. It is. ah That's not normal. I'm sorry. Your eyes should be watering. Like, what?
00:14:52
Speaker
Yeah. So they call them these meetings. So these occur weekly, sometimes multiple times a week, sometimes even multiple times in the same day. No. There is a charge, because of course there is, to attend these meetings. It's $10 a person, even if you're part of the College of Integrated Philosophy. You have to pay every single time you go to the meetings.
00:15:15
Speaker
And you have to attend every meeting or what? No, I, I think it's just completely like voluntary. Just like you need to pop into one, like Alcoholics Anonymous.
00:15:27
Speaker
You feel like you need to go to a staring session today. It's here for you.
00:15:35
Speaker
Obviously, John is making tons of money with hundreds of attendees multiple times a week. He has thousands of followers around the world that consider John to be, quote, the living embodiment of truth.
00:15:48
Speaker
For why? asked. So he sometimes, so they do have like question sessions sometimes after they get the staring out of the way ah towards the end of these meetings. they Some people have, are pre-approved to ask him specific questions.
00:16:05
Speaker
I don't really get into it a lot because all of the questions that that guy that did the vice article like witness the questions made no sense it was like it was asked in a riddle and then his answers made no sense and were answered in a riddle and I was like okay so what's the point of me trying to like read these to you because none of it made sense and then they said he would people would ask the question and he would like start his sentence and then sometimes it would be 10 minutes of silence of him just looking at the person that like
00:16:38
Speaker
asked him the question before he would like finish the sentence so it's like this is just making me angry at this point designed to make you uncomfortable so you don't ask yep it's a tactic that's hilarious um but yeah because people get these answers or supposed answers from him then believe him to be the embodiment of truth and like wisdom and stuff. Okay.
00:17:02
Speaker
Yeah. Provides some sort guidance. Well, if you never say anything, I guess you can't be proven wrong, right? If he never talks, he's always truthful. Well, he rarely. he he does talk he because he answers the questions. Just his answers make no sense.
00:17:17
Speaker
Oh my God. Sounds like a politician when you say that. ah so Really. Now, do you want to take a guess where this cult operates out of What if I just stare at you for 10 minutes and don't answer?
Investigating John D. Reuter's Cult
00:17:35
Speaker
Oh, damn it. I just blinked like four times in two seconds. I got the, I already told Alana I'm stuffy because I was cutting and then sauteing onions.
00:17:46
Speaker
So like my nose got stuffy and my eyes were just pouring. So my eyes are really sore right now, which is actually kind of funny.
00:17:58
Speaker
And I'm telling you, when someone tells you not to blink, then it becomes impossible. It's really hard. yeah um Okay, no, I have no idea. What what was the question? If you had to take any guess, um where where would you think this cult operates out of?
00:18:19
Speaker
Oh, God, I want to say somewhere like fruity. California? California? Okay, that's not a bad guess. That's not a bad guess.
00:18:31
Speaker
Or Oregon. I don't know. Okay. Are you locked in? That's your final answer? Like, who wants to be a millionaire? Exactly. So, getting into the background and the formation of the cult.
00:18:46
Speaker
ah Obviously, the founder, John D. Reuter, main guy. Yeah. Described in that article, that Vice article, as handsome, like a top-tier Porsche salesman.
00:19:01
Speaker
Okay. ah He was born in Stetler, Alberta, where John began as a Christian preacher and orthopedic shoemaker in rural Alberta.
00:19:13
Speaker
No. once speaking once speaking to the elders of his church for nine hours straight about his supposed awakenings and his search for the truth.
00:19:27
Speaker
So I guess he annoyed them so much that he left the church.
00:19:36
Speaker
I'd rather be annoying than boring, I guess. I don't know. Now there's a like, this is not what we signed up for, man. We don't want to hear you talk about your awakenings and search for the truth of religion for nine hours.
00:19:49
Speaker
No. And seriously, if anything, Stetler's known for nowadays is we had a pamphlet when I worked in travel where you could go a train thing. That was like an old timey train experience.
00:20:01
Speaker
Oh yeah. Yeah. the Nobody talked about this. Yeah. famous guy or whatever. That's why this one jumped out at me. I was like, oh, this is fun. I've never heard of this.
00:20:13
Speaker
No. Maybe it was like we lived there, but. We'll get to it. So he started forming the group in the late 1980s with five couples following him.
00:20:27
Speaker
um i think they kind of like defected from the church. That's kind of what i my impression I was getting from the article and how they like said that five couples followed him from the church or whatever.
00:20:40
Speaker
And he started kind of operating the beginnings of what would become the College of Integrated Psychology, which was based out of Edmonton, Alberta.
00:20:50
Speaker
Oh, damn. Oh, no. This is hitting close to home. Right? That's where I live. Literally. Yeah. I was just like, oh, Jesus Christ.
00:21:02
Speaker
When I saw this, like, oh, no.
00:21:06
Speaker
It's so crazy when you hear something that's in your backyard. Yeah. What? ah Damn. wow ah group
00:21:18
Speaker
The group held regular meetings at a place called the Oasis Center, which was a $7 million dollars facility located near West Edmonton Mall. What?
00:21:29
Speaker
$7 million? $7 million? dollars Yeah. I'm sorry, the Oasis? That's what they call it. Oh, I don't know. We were just watching Ready Player One again the other day. I think that's what they call internet VR world they live in or something.
00:21:47
Speaker
Oh, I think so, yeah. The metaverse that they want to make for Facebook was so much better. Yeah. oh my god It was hidden within an office park and operated by what was described in the article as an army of his volunteers.
00:22:03
Speaker
Before the Oasis Center, the group, like when it was smaller, had held meetings in a small bookstore just off of White Avenue. But as he grew in popularity, many followers moved to Edmonton from around the world, and they began to require a larger venue.
00:22:23
Speaker
By the mid-2010s, John had amassed thousands of followers. And they moved there for him? Because some of us just move out west for jobs.
00:22:35
Speaker
No, these people specifically for John, his followers comprised mainly of middle-aged women who the Vice article described as being John gone.
00:22:46
Speaker
so there love with him. Oh god, gross.
00:22:52
Speaker
I mean, I love a pun. Like, I heard them talk about the Lord Byron guy. i don't know, he was in British history, and then he had some weird stuff, gossip it and stuff about him, so they said that, oh, there was a Byromania.
00:23:08
Speaker
but like, John gone? it's not even that clever no it's not bad uh so a lot of what i have next uh is actually from that vice article these were like really good interactions he had because this guy harman leon um he ended up attending ah
00:23:37
Speaker
like one of the, a couple of the meetings, because there was like a day meeting and an evening meeting or something. I think they attended the two in the same day. and they went there, and they were like interviewing, right? Interviewing a lot of the attendees.
00:23:52
Speaker
ah Just being like, how did you get into this? And everything. So these are, this is what it had in the article. These are kind of the most interesting parts I found in the article. But again, that article was probably about 35 pages long.
00:24:08
Speaker
um There's a lot more detail that they get into. It was amazingly well done. Kudos to them. a York Times. It was a wealth of information. Yeah. Very well done.
00:24:20
Speaker
um The person's not a local, so they actually flew into Edmonton to, like, intentionally, like, to do this. So they talked about a couple other things they did in Edmonton. Because they're like, hey, I was here for a couple days. I didn't want to just attend this meeting where a man stared at me. Yeah.
00:24:40
Speaker
There's different that highlights. There's different things you can do as well. Right. um So this is from the article. Oh yeah. This is like them interviewing. So the son says, I moved here because of John said a middle-aged woman standing next to me in the food line. Cause they,
00:25:02
Speaker
There's like a cafeteria that's in this Oasis Center, so they were like eating before the meeting. They say, this was the umpteenth time I had heard someone say this.
00:25:13
Speaker
Before I met John, I was living on a beach near Byron Bay. That's funny. Byron! By Romania. Yeah. I didn't even know where Edmonton was, the woman added, and now she had moved to Canada in search of something she felt only John could offer.
00:25:32
Speaker
Weird. She continued saying, have you ever taken acid? That's what it's like when you hear John, you listen, and then suddenly something snaps and you get it. Okay.
00:25:44
Speaker
Okay. I hoped that I, too, would have an acid-snapping spiritual moment today. But if it didn't happen during the first meeting, there was plenty more to choose from.
00:25:55
Speaker
ah Friday night, we have a meeting. Sunday, we have two meetings. Then Monday, we have another one. relayed gray-haired woman while I grabbed a Samutrap. She was smiling broadly. I go to all of them.
00:26:07
Speaker
um we are I work here. So Mondays, I go to work and just continue to stay here for the meeting as well as um on Fridays. So, like, people go to multiple of these, and again, it's like three to four hours long.
00:26:20
Speaker
don't know how you call the meeting. Yeah, and they're going to multiple a week where you stare at John, and he stares at you.
00:26:31
Speaker
and sometimes there's questions. No. ah John's upcoming world staring tour includes seminars in Really?
00:26:46
Speaker
and england and while tickets to meetings are nearly ten or are a measly ten dollars seminar tickets go for hundreds of dollars despite the hefty price tag many of his devotees are willing to follow him around the globe Wow.
00:27:03
Speaker
And they do. It's crazy. John goes to all of these places. i go sometimes. said A kindly woman from New York, she had been a John follower for 15 years before she decided to make the move to Edmonton.
00:27:17
Speaker
Saying, I've been to Israel four times with John. It's very intentional. ah She continued, you'll find that there are less Edmontonians than people from elsewhere, but they live in Edmonton now because of John.
00:27:32
Speaker
weird crazy to have to move to a place right I mean I think there's a certain amount that must be like over zoom I think you would how can you not get the staring done you have to be the same room yeah so I think it must be like live streamed or something somewhere live stare
00:28:01
Speaker
did he freeze or is he just not moving but but
00:28:07
Speaker
how would you know like he's so good he's staring into my soul yeah he goes elsewhere yeah he's just eating chinos yeah yeah No two meetings are the same. It all depends on who asks the questions. Added an older atri or Austrian woman who moved to Edmonton five years ago when she first attended John's seminar in Europe. She couldn't speak a word of English and yet, quote, I could understand everything he said.
00:28:40
Speaker
I just knew he was speaking very important truths. okay She told me that no matter where John moved, she would follow him. Like I said, this article is fascinating.
00:28:52
Speaker
was like, these people. Have you ever been on acid? ah You're impressed with staring. Boy, I got some things to show you.
00:29:03
Speaker
Right? Oh, my gosh. That same Austrian lady says, it might seem really confusing at first what's going on. She said to me before advising me to listen with your heart.
00:29:16
Speaker
before I had come to see the College of Integrated Philosophy for myself, I had spoken with this person professor, ah Stephen Kent, of the University of Alberta in Edmonton, a cult expert who had been researching de-rooter's activities for years.
00:29:34
Speaker
this is An expert on cults? Cults in Edmonton. Okay. um So this is their take on it, according to this cult expert.
00:29:46
Speaker
It's a community of striving, if not naive followers, describing the majority of the members as older, Aquarian-aged people who've grown up expecting the world to be filled with peace and happiness, but have been left disappointed.
00:30:01
Speaker
Old hippies. Which i thought was kind of sad. Yeah, is. We thought we would, you know, break this with the peace and love movement. yeah
00:30:14
Speaker
Change is hard. D-Rooter is maybe seen as the last hope of their generation to provide the kind of world they wanted. People who want the world to be a good place and think it's ah and think it's attributing to its betterment.
00:30:31
Speaker
But in fact... are spending hours and hours of time listening to a not a whole lot of insight, which I thought was savage. What?
00:30:42
Speaker
Okay. Because again, like, I can read you. Hold on, let me literally go to the thing and I will read you one of the questions that he gets asked and what he responds because it makes no sense that's why they listen to him for hours and hours and he makes no sense i was like yeah he doesn't even talk about it just stares but i see yeah um he obviously just stares so he can avoid speaking and sounding idiotic then let yeah oh there's another person that said
00:31:18
Speaker
Oh, why didn't I have this in? um I've been to about 4,000 meetings, said the young woman sitting next to me. I started coming when I was seven. She was originally from Vancouver, she told me, but my parents moved here because of John.
00:31:33
Speaker
She's been to 4,000 meetings. They brought her when she was seven They indoctrinated her. If you think about each those as $10, how much money has she personally given him as $10 a pop at 4,000 meetings?
00:31:52
Speaker
That's like when Carrie finds out she spent $400,000 on shoes on Six in the City. I have how many? What?
00:32:06
Speaker
Hold on, let me find. Oh, this. um John and the woman were now staring at each other. We stared at them. Who would blink first?
00:32:18
Speaker
Professor Kent told me that in the old days, anyone could ask John a question. Now there's a preliminary screening. If they don't like the person, or sorry, if they don't like what the person is going to say, they don't get called on.
00:32:30
Speaker
Sure. so this woman asks John, how to see the speck of gold that has no weight, is it her it is weightless. That's the question.
00:32:41
Speaker
How to see the speck of gold that has no weight, it is weightless. Okay. A Dutch woman now asked from John's hot seat. There's a long, long pause.
00:32:52
Speaker
John spoke at last. His words were a slow, soft, deliberate. you are You enjoy knowing the gold directly. What? Says we waited hours for John to speak and now he's speaking so I guess his words must be very important.
00:33:10
Speaker
Sure. That's how that works. and John continues. It is real to you, the gold. He said slowly, you respond to what you know is golden.
00:33:21
Speaker
Another pause. You see that which is most deeply real in you. What? No. They described his statement as slow and torturous.
00:33:33
Speaker
I was like, I'm not going to go through any more of the questions. because it's just He thinks he's Silent Bob, who only speaks up once a film, but when he does, he actually has something to fucking say that's helpful.
00:33:45
Speaker
Yeah. But you're not. was like, oh damn, that made no sense at all.
00:33:52
Speaker
Yeah, so I omitted any of the questions because it was all just blather of, okay, I didn't even understand that question and definitely didn't get his answer, so Oh, that's funny.
00:34:03
Speaker
Yeah. um Yeah. So just those kind of things that they're like, oh, he's giving some sort of insight and he's so knowledgeable about the truth. Some sage advice. Yeah.
00:34:14
Speaker
Some nugget. Yeah. So getting back to that cult expert named Kent saying, Kent told me the story of one woman who'd left the group after she saw John at a gas station filling up his off-road truck.
00:34:28
Speaker
She asked the attendant if he knew John And he told her that John came in all the time to repair his truck from off-road trips over the weekends. And the woman realized that the money she was giving the group had been partly funding John's off-road hobby.
00:34:43
Speaker
So she, like, put the quit the steering wheel. Good for her. Um... So you might be wondering, this and might not be concerning to you.
00:34:54
Speaker
um yeah I mean, out of the realm of cults we've heard around the world, this might not be too bad. I mean, yeah. I mean, going based on just that, I'd say no, but um he does have some controversies that are pretty serious.
00:35:14
Speaker
ah John's most public controversy, I'd say like, when this article was originally published, involved two sisters back in the 1990s. ah He was having a relationship with both these two sisters while he was still married.
00:35:30
Speaker
The sisters were Benita and Katrina von Sass. Oh! Snap. Not only did their father, businessman Peter von Sass,
00:35:45
Speaker
ah provide John financial support, but he also introduced John to his young, noble daughters. He's like, oh, lovely. okay These are my daughters.
00:35:56
Speaker
ah The story made headlines because Katrina is a former Canadian Olympic volleyball player. scandalous. Oh, damn. Yeah.
00:36:07
Speaker
Got some Canadian elite. Ha ha. The staring guru originally denied the affair, stating that he was answering questions on a personal level.
00:36:19
Speaker
ah He later told his congregation that, quote-unquote, truth, had told him to sleep with the Von Sass sisters. He always blames everything on truth. That all of the factions... That's what he calls his penis.
00:36:35
Speaker
And this is truth! yeah Oh my god. What? um What I love is... Yeah,
00:36:49
Speaker
yeah so, yeah. He said that Truth told him to sleep with the Von Sass sisters and John's wife at the time divorced him when she refused to join the sister harem.
00:37:01
Speaker
Because he wanted to sleep with all three of them. Sister wives. Basically. So his wife starts divorcing him. And then the Von Sasse girls, the sisters, eventually sued John, stating that they were owed certain entitlements and payments from a decade spent as his common law wives.
00:37:22
Speaker
Because was with them for a decade. Crazy. It was like a really big deal. And if I remember correctly, he didn't own up to the affair until his, I think they were doing one of the question things, and he was like,
00:37:37
Speaker
answering somebody else's question and his wife like barged into the meeting and just like demanded he answer her in front of everybody and then she was like yelling about how she was gonna get a divorce and everything in front of like hundreds of his followers it was drama so i mean <unk> amazing it was amazing a little bit it's like a movie yeah it's very soap opera it is i was like oh this is great In an affidavit, Benita von Sass described John as an opportunist and a huckster.
Financial Exploitation and Recent Allegations
00:38:11
Speaker
yeah, okay. We heard that word in a while. Yeah. Yeah. She said that he had told her to sexually submit to him and that this was God's will and that he claimed to be Christ on earth.
00:38:25
Speaker
At the time, she said he was still having regular sex with the two of them, meaning the sisters, in addition to his wife. So, you know, just blaming. You know, it's like the power dynamic. I'm like, whatever, i can do whatever I want. You guys are my followers and just like coursing people. Concubines.
00:38:47
Speaker
Quite the appetite he's got. Three women on the go. Yeah. um So his wife at the time, her name was Joyce, Joyce DeRuiter. So she initiated divorce proceedings and then moved to the Netherlands.
00:39:00
Speaker
I guess they had children because it said she moved to the Netherlands with the children. Oh my god. Oh no. She just like peaced out of here. um Good for her. like Yeah. Yeah.
00:39:13
Speaker
I have grandmother. John then, like, I think fairly quickly married Lee Ann Angerman, a follower of his, and at that time ended his relationship with the Von Sass sisters.
00:39:28
Speaker
What the fuck? Okay. um Yeah, so that's a bit more background. ah Now jumping back to that Vice article.
00:39:42
Speaker
And kind of like this meeting that they saw saying once seated, a British woman came on stage to tell us about the scholarship fund for those who can't afford John's seminars, the ones he holds in other countries that are hundreds of dollars a ticket.
00:39:56
Speaker
ah She was providing a training workshop for budgeting, stating those requesting a scholarship may be asked to look at their lifestyle and find new ways to contribute to those seminars financially.
00:40:12
Speaker
She continued saying this could include simple suggestions like setting up a toonie jar, comprehensive budget planning, managing resources, considering downsizing, or renting a room or a garage show Just rent a room out in your house.
00:40:31
Speaker
Oh, they're like those stupid ads. Yeah, they want me to rent this extra bedroom out to Airbnb. You have a closet? You have a broken closet? That's a full apartment.
00:40:42
Speaker
Don't you know? Like, wait. Yeah. um they're like, take give us your money and we'll tell you how to save money. Like every other, like MLM and whatever. Absolutely. We'll tell you the secret.
00:40:58
Speaker
Get rich quick scheme, you know. Yeah, a little secret. That one where they're like, manifest everything. oh my god.
00:41:11
Speaker
Yeah, so the article, or I guess my quotes from the article, i just have a couple more, saying, I tried to keep my heart open as John's devotees instructed, despite the fact that this woman had just encouraged his followers to rent out rooms in their homes to help pay for these expensive seminars.
00:41:30
Speaker
Like. You gotta shake your head. Yeah. on there' yeah There was, like I said, a whole, whole lot more to that article. um The College of Integrated Philosophy at the time would rent out that luxurious Oasis facility. So people actually held wedding receptions there and stuff.
00:41:54
Speaker
Which i guess could cost up to $13,000 during their peak season. It was a beautiful place. You can look up pictures of it. um Wedding venues, man. Oh, expensive.
00:42:08
Speaker
The group, the College of Integrated Philosophy, ended up selling the Oasis Center kind of after these different controversies in 2021. They sold it for over million.
00:42:25
Speaker
yeah so therere actually not in Edmonton anymore. Which we'll get to But they haven't gone too far, which is also concerning. So I will be following if I ever hear about them again. Just hop, skip, and a jump. Yeah, you would almost think we would have if they're so big in the area.
00:42:51
Speaker
And you know what? When I was looking up different, I think I typed up like weird, bizarre cults or something. And I actually found this one on a whole Reddit thread, like way way, way, way, way down. And it was like, hey, check out the Edmonton Staring Cult. These people are insane.
00:43:07
Speaker
And I went, what do you mean, Edmonton Staring Cult? And I was like, click. I see. Sometimes I still love Reddit because it's like, you know, the the way message boards and chat rooms used to be. Like, it's just raw people.
00:43:24
Speaker
Talking and upvoting. I've never heard of this before. Yeah, putting in their two cents. Yeah. um So they have had another, i'd say even worse, maybe, controversy since. This arose in 2014. Or guess these controversies, sorry, arose starting in 2014 after the death of one of John D. Reuter's female followers that occurred under mysterious circumstances.
00:43:54
Speaker
um i couldn't really find a lot of things detailing about that but like um so i don't know if she was like on their property or just one of their followers when she died or what oh really um and then ah he also came under fire in 2017 after he publicly admitted that he was having sex with a number of his female followers Um, and that when he decided, like, one that he was gonna sleep with, he would tell them that, like, this was their calling.
00:44:25
Speaker
And, like, basically that the calling was calling them to have sex with him. was really weird. Um. Shocker. they would never do that. Never.
00:44:36
Speaker
her a Abuse our power. And nobody can have sex but me. Yeah. Ugh. oh All this room of middle-aged women.
00:44:48
Speaker
um But then getting in even more serious, John ah has been accused by former followers of using faith-based claims to coerce them into sexual acts.
00:45:01
Speaker
um This was in 2023 when John, who was 63 at the time, was arrested. This was just a couple years ago in January 2023 for sexual assault against four community members that it happened between 2017 and 2020.
00:45:19
Speaker
and then John's wife that, um, what did I say her name was? Cause he got remarried. Lee, Lee Ann. there was a Joyce. That's all i remember now. Yes.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, John's wife was also arrested and charged with three counts of sexual assault. She's 64 years old and out of her three counts of sexual assault, she's charged with,
00:45:47
Speaker
ah all three of those connect to ah the assaults that like John's charged with and then he was charged with an additional one on top of that.
00:45:59
Speaker
So like she was involved in those. Shit. But she was arrested after him. Like I think a while after him. can't remember if it was like days, weeks or a month or something later.
00:46:12
Speaker
Yeah. ah So John was released on bail. I'm assuming his wife probably was too. He was released on January 27th of 2023 and was once again allowed to hold meetings, though not with any of the complainants.
00:46:31
Speaker
um So the people that are like charging him with anything, they aren't allowed to basically attend the meetings or anything. Makes sense. Probably will. Yeah. yeah But from what it looks like, his...
00:46:45
Speaker
followers have pretty well abandoned Edmonton like I said they sold that Oasis facts factory ah ah facility yeah yeah right now the Oasis center uh and I'd say this is even more concerning is they're now buying clusters and like pockets of land around Fort Assiniboine um okay And which is raising concerns for the locals there. And I feel like that's very like commune kind of thing.
00:47:17
Speaker
Before they all were living separately and they were just meeting in this oasis center to hold their meetings. um But he wasn't like directing them to live together and stuff.
00:47:30
Speaker
um I guess he was kind of like coercing people to get married. So sometimes they'd have a follower that would come from like move new to Edmonton, like within a couple months of them arriving, they would suddenly be married so like somebody else in the group.
00:47:47
Speaker
um There was that whole thing I kind of didn't talk about much. um But this is concerning to me because I feel like that's very commune kind of thing. They're all buying like this same area of land and building like or having their houses there.
00:48:05
Speaker
And he's there as well with his wife, I'm assuming. so Yeah, it seems kind of like a commune or compound that they're creating now.
Discovery of Local Cults
00:48:14
Speaker
Yeah, they're gathering for sure.
00:48:16
Speaker
and you can get yeah which they weren't shit done in rural places. yeah Yeah, which they weren't really doing for the last pretty well 40 years. That one didn't seem to be their goal, and now it does. Right. Which pretty...
00:48:34
Speaker
pretty scary but that's it i guess oh my god i thought it was i thought it was crazy i was like i'm gonna surprise the land up by doing something local and if this cult was still going technically we might have been able to go to one of their meetings
00:48:54
Speaker
Yeah. know people sneak into Scientology meetings and then get kicked out? We could have snuck in. Ten dollars a ticket. We could have stared at John and he could have stared into our souls.
00:49:05
Speaker
Yeah, or people almost get accidentally recruited. Yeah. Go to deli or something. I don't think I could have kept a straight face anyway, so.
00:49:16
Speaker
That's crazy. Yeah, if someone said, like, local cult, I'd be like, which, what the fuck? Like, no. right? Yeah. brain I never, heard ever would have guessed something like this was going on. Yeah.
00:49:32
Speaker
Yeah. I've never heard of them. Never came up. I don't remember if I looked up a listicle for this one, but it did not. Yeah, I didn't see it. I looked up quite quite a few listicles, and I don't remember seeing It was really just on that Reddit post that oh yeah people were talking about different things, and it just said, like,
00:49:53
Speaker
oh, check out the Edmonton staring cult and the guy's been accused of sexual assault and he just stares at people for hours. and I'm on the Edmonton subreddit, which is about all things Edmonton. And yeah, that's never crossed there.
00:50:07
Speaker
Yeah. And I was like, I feel like 2023, if he was being arrested and like before he was released on bail and everything, I was like, oh, that's only a couple of years ago. I feel like I would have seen articles about that. Like any of this would have rung a bell, but nothing.
00:50:23
Speaker
That's the freaking, what do you call it even, the news cycle these days? Or huh not even really, because if you don't like watch a news channel, then you're only going to get what kind of stuff comes across your way or what you go seeking out. And it's kind of weird what that ends up being. That's crazy. Yeah, one of the articles I saw that was about the um charges against the couple, with most of the articles were from Global News.
00:50:52
Speaker
Oh, yeah, yeah. But I didn't really notice any updates or anything like that. So I don't really know. Don't know if they have trial dates or what.
00:51:02
Speaker
But sounds like they're released on bail. so um In one way, I'm glad I didn't look up any listicles. Because I was like i feel like I know about too many cults that we haven't covered already. Sometimes, yeah.
00:51:16
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. still That's still really interesting to learn about. Yeah. It's like a fun fact. Yeah. Go ask Pat if he ever heard of this one either. Right. Because it's crazy.
00:51:29
Speaker
i know. All is going on. and He's got a different YouTube algorithm, that's for sure, than mine. Yeah. Oh, God. Sometimes I worry that it's different conspiracy theories and stuff than local cults.
00:51:46
Speaker
Yeah.
Introduction to Twin Flames Universe
00:51:47
Speaker
Anyway, that was really good. ah Thanks. I had fun researching it. Yeah, no kidding. I'm just like picturing the weirdest staring matches now.
00:51:59
Speaker
Yeah.
00:52:04
Speaker
Prop him open. Prop him open. Yeah. And if you look at him, he looks weird too. I don't know. Oh yeah, I didn't do that. He's like kind of tan.
00:52:17
Speaker
Tan and like, I guess not tan, but his hair was kind of like light blonde, almost gray. Like, it's very, very light blonde. Huge forehead. He's got a ginormous forehead.
00:52:31
Speaker
oh no. A five head? Yeah. Oh, there we go.
00:52:39
Speaker
be pretty brief Yeah, very feet. Oh, my God, the one picture just loaded and only loaded forehead first. Yeah, I see him now. Is it dial-up internet? Oh, God.
00:52:54
Speaker
I don't know. The thumbnail just like only half of it came in as the page was loading and it was only his forehead. Perfect. Oh God. Yeah. He's got barely any eyebrows.
00:53:05
Speaker
Weird. Yeah. Weird. Yeah. I don't like it. No. but I'm like, I'm concerned. I'm going to be following up for updates for their activities in Fort Assiniboine.
00:53:18
Speaker
Oh no Your phone's going to be suggesting all this shit now. Yeah. ass in a boin. Right? A cinnaboin. That's how you say that, right?
00:53:28
Speaker
Yeah. I was yeah second guessing myself. Sometimes when I'm like, oh, that's a that's a word. i know in the name of that. I just can't look at the word. You see it all the time. Yeah, yeah, Exactly.
00:53:41
Speaker
I know how it's said i need to ignore what it's spelled like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I know how to say it. Yeah. Looks like butt.
00:53:59
Speaker
Welcome to the Bell Witch Podcast, a show that covers the infamous legend of the historic Bell Witch haunting in southern United States in the 19th century, where the Bell family experienced frightening happenings within their home.
00:54:18
Speaker
Hang on a second. No, no, no, that's the wrong bell witch. This is a podcast about being a witchy pagan in the 21st century, airing bi-weekly with different guests on each month sharing their pearls of wisdom and gems of knowledge from their very own witchy businesses.
00:54:36
Speaker
I call it a moot loot. Here we cover a wide range of pagan and witchcraft related topics from sigils, spells and spirits to Reiki rituals and pagan parenting while camping in the bell tent named Delilah.
00:54:49
Speaker
It's got nothing to do with the bell witch from the 19th century in Tennessee that scared people to death in a little townhouse, which may or may not be true. Pretty cool story, but yeah, it's the wrong bell witch.
00:55:01
Speaker
This bell witch podcast is brought to you by Swales, the friendly green witch from Leeds, UK. A northern witch with a strong Yorkshire accent, a love of all things weird, spooky, magical and a smelly dragon named Dave.
00:55:15
Speaker
So tune in every two weeks for a sprinkling of Yorkshire magic. Listen to the Bell Witch podcast with me, Swales, a friendly green witch, wherever you get your podcasts.
00:55:28
Speaker
We are back!
00:55:32
Speaker
Refreshed! After a while, from the last recording, but that's okay. We're just back to do part two of the same episode. Culty, culty, cults. The cultiest.
00:55:44
Speaker
um but we were just catching up and then i was like oh yeah right i can't even remember how many days it's been so can't remember much about your cult if i'm admitting it it was it was local uh it was about staring into your soul Okay, let's ring some bells.
00:56:10
Speaker
I haven't edited it yet, but... Yeah, that'll bring it back. ah Yeah, I was like, i remember you were like, they're not, um you know, I don't think either of us picked the most harmful, gross ones we could pick. it's not like... What was it? You did the anthill kill?
00:56:34
Speaker
kids. Like, it's not like that. oh yeah. That was a Canadian one, Yeah, that one's really bad. um yeah nothing like that.
00:56:46
Speaker
i know. They had an innocent sounding name, though. Yeah. And then, you had done ones where... I'm just gonna get lost.
00:56:58
Speaker
There was another one you did, and one then was that was out of Western Canada, like... somewhere here in the Prairie provinces and, and I heard them covered on another podcast. And then I remember, Oh yeah, Kelsey covered that.
00:57:09
Speaker
And all my brain took away from it was sometimes they were like naked in their protests and that's all my brain. yeah And then it was interesting to hear another like podcast cover it. Cause you always do get a little bit of different things when you hear sometimes the same story yeah from different people's perspectives and stuff. And, um,
00:57:31
Speaker
I don't know if I was like, oh, they sound a little bit weirder than I remember. Or like something like that. like oh I remember being like, huh. But that's funny because error that's sort of a lame segue. But this one you have heard about.
00:57:55
Speaker
i know. Yeah. I think like when you sent me your sources, you sent me the sources for this episode, and I accidentally looked at it and went, oh, I guess I know what Alana's covering.
00:58:08
Speaker
am, but there's sort of a reason, because we did touch on this on Patreon, because we did react to a documentary. We did a documentary. Mm-hmm.
00:58:21
Speaker
But there's been some updates recently that I wanted to... I love a good update. it's always good um so if you guys haven't heard of them it's the twin flames universe that we're talking about today
00:58:41
Speaker
um oh yeah when did we we covered the i think it was the one escaping twin flames doc because there's two documentaries yeah that one was like was it prime or was it a netflix one I think the Netflix one.
00:58:59
Speaker
Okay.
00:59:02
Speaker
But don't quote me on that. But I do know, I went back to look when we covered it. If you guys are interested more in this topic. we Six years ago. July 2024 on Patreon. like a year. Okay.
00:59:18
Speaker
And I had to go look because I was like, weren't we switching over to something? different hosting at that time and then I thought i think I like we did two documentary reacts and then I like lost one of them in the switch oh yeah yeah another one right that's not a fever dream
00:59:45
Speaker
um no we lost the reaction to um
00:59:53
Speaker
Um, something else. That's so bad. don't remember it now. No, but it was because think it was Zencaster or something. Yeah.
01:00:10
Speaker
Um, asked if I wanted to like archive the sessions, like our recording sessions. And I thought that just meant like put them into like kind of side folder or whatever.
01:00:22
Speaker
So I think I put, like, archive, like, a certain amount of them so they would just stop, like, always being there, you know? um Yeah. And then it I didn't know that was making it not, that if you hadn't published an episode using that audio, that it would make that audio not available anymore, like, unaccessible. Because it said on the whatever...
01:00:47
Speaker
level we were using for Zencaster if you archive something you actually can't access it and I was like oh well that would be a cool message to warn people about like before you hit archive then yeah I do recall our hosting service hey you're not at the account level yeah we had like limited access yeah and then Pat helped us upgrade yay out to Pat and then we still couldn't access it then we still couldn't access it it it so It was archived before we had that upgrade. I was like, oh, cool.
01:01:22
Speaker
Yeah. feel like we recorded a couple of them at the same time. And then we were going to release the other one for the next month. So it was sitting in there for a while. And then they were like, well, things have been sitting in there and then they get archived and whatever. but not we get in you're like, delete.
01:01:40
Speaker
Anyway. How dare you guys bank episodes for the first time ever. We're not good at that. Don't. Yeah, hinder us. We're trying to get ahead.
01:01:52
Speaker
so We can get punished one time. We want to go back to our regular scheduled programming, but it's tough. The summer um schedule has been helping us not and fall behind, at least. Yeah.
01:02:08
Speaker
So we appreciate y'all's patience as well with all that changes. At least we're still coming out. We're consistent that way. We'll let you know. We're always going to have the new episode. It's just sometimes we have to make them slower. You know, you guys are living your life.
01:02:27
Speaker
Did we tell them about the new Patreon episode? ah can't remember. and
01:02:32
Speaker
I don't think so. wow we're really good at promoting ourselves. Aren't we? So great. I definitely have not even updated its website then if it's been posted.
01:02:44
Speaker
I forgot to check. That's tomorrow me's problem. Okay. She's going to sleep in.
Founders of Twin Flames Universe
01:02:50
Speaker
She's going to do some yard work before it gets too hot outside and then wash her and Then she's going to work on the website.
01:02:59
Speaker
Yeah. I'm going to try and take my car to a place that will tell me why the airbag light came on ah for a reasonable amount of money it was yeah it was like one thing that my my friend's husband who's like really good mechanic and we're like good friends too but he didn't recommend him looking at something like a light that might you know like yeah eat something or whatever it's like yeah you gotta take it in i guess
01:03:36
Speaker
It's It's just if you're driving around with it like that, it, you know, might not work in an accident or you won't pass inspection. That's what Google says. Aww.
01:03:48
Speaker
Yeah. I'm like, yeah. Is it that the check engine light came on or the airbag light? It looks like an airbag. It's a symbol. It's a little person and there's a round circle in front of their face. And I'm like, that's the airbag.
01:04:06
Speaker
Oh, weird. i know. Yeah, I don't know much about that. and know, like... Could be just a sensor or something. yeah Yeah. There's sensors for everything now. My dad... No.
01:04:21
Speaker
He has like a winter tires and then his regular tires on his vehicle, but his vehicle has some sort of sensor where it'll tell you if one of the tire pressures is like lower than the others. And it turns this light on his dashboard because when he switches over his tires seasonally and everything, they're like, oh, we can keep reactivating.
01:04:42
Speaker
the sensor but it's like a charge every time to like reset it or something oh no like do you want to keep doing that and he's like no i don't want to pay he's like i don't care he's's like i can tell if my vehicle is like pulling one way or the other or i could just like visually normally tell if one of the tires is lower no pat's edge so now his is yeah so now his dashboard always has the one tire pressure light yeah pats will come on on certain roads like if i'm driving his edge to work and then i'll be like oh here i am coming down to this road and down this hill and his fucking entire thing is gonna come on oh weird yeah like a di certain bump in the road like and then he's like oh yeah they told me it was kind of sensitive or something like that and i was like okay it's annoying like you can be set
01:05:34
Speaker
yeah You can just tell when your vehicle, normally your vehicle pull to like one way or the other when you're driving. Right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Well then I'm just not very observant. Someone tells me I have like a really flat tire and I'm like, cool. Thanks. Yeah.
01:05:51
Speaker
You have no tire. cool. You have no tire. No. Your tire is missing. Gordo came back. Oh my God. Hi baby. Hi my baby. Okay, Gordo is seated. He's ready for the lesson.
01:06:08
Speaker
um i have one question for you before we start. Sure. Did you ever hear the the the hot veterinarian?
01:06:20
Speaker
He's like made people's sexiest man alive list. No, the hot veterinarian. I don't know, it came up when I was listening to a podcast today and they were like, or I was listening to Drinking the Kool-Aid and Cassidy and Amanda were talking about, oh, we went to this panel that our friend podcaster was on and it's like, they were talking about animals and cats and stuff and they were both hot and and this other guy comes out and he's so hot and I was like, people don't look like that. And then was like, what was his name? I put in the comments and then they said it after it and i was like, oh, Dr. Evan.
01:06:57
Speaker
And so I Googled it and i was like, Oh, yes, I've seen this guy. Dr. Evan, like, Anton, or maybe Anton is how it's spelled. And then was like, dude's pretty good looking.
01:07:13
Speaker
Anyway, i don't know. I think I was listening to that today and thought we had to do an intro for today's thing. that's like I always forget about all these stupid things I read about.
01:07:24
Speaker
oh yeah he had a cool ah article where he was like, um you know helping sick like crocodiles and bonding with elephants and stuff. And then oh and then he had an encounter where you know hippos are like actually really dangerous. They kind of look like fat cows or whatever.
01:07:50
Speaker
he like came face to face with one when he was trying to go into like a little valley to go to the bathroom or whatever. And he said he just backed away and like didn't break eye contact.
01:08:03
Speaker
And then it was like the scariest thing or whatever. But then I thought the other thing he said was even scarier because there was an orangutan that was blocking their path, hanging from like a branch and they were trying to leave this place. And then he like, they went around the other way and he blocked that path. And he was like,
01:08:20
Speaker
this guy is like taunting us and they have like a seven foot, I guess, arm span. And I was picturing this like super long ring a tang. Yeah. like Aggressive. And he's like, and so then, and then it was following us on the way out. So he goes, I covered my groin because they're liable to go for your genitals first.
01:08:40
Speaker
Or if they don't just rip off your face, you're like, Oh my God. Monkeys can be American Steve Irwin. Sorry. yeah Go ahead. Yeah.
01:08:51
Speaker
need to cut you off there oh monkeys yeah and apes and yeah yeah all right anyway so what kicked uh this off in my like news feed or whatever was um a recent interview that came out that they ended up talking about on one of my favorite podcasts uh sinister hood so shout out to them uh christy and heather for cool cool coco yeah, bringing it to my attention, ah think maybe on their Patreon, because they've covered this modern day cult as well.
01:09:31
Speaker
And they're so cringy. And then they get interviewed by this lady who is from, um her name is Avery Haynes, and she's a reporter with CTV. So Canadian. Oh,
01:09:47
Speaker
um And she does a really good job just like, asking them the tough questions but it's so funny anyway so I'll probably I'll put the link or whatever in the in the thing for you and then just encourage people to also watch it like I'll tell you where to find it and stuff it's so cringy yeah I can is it like on YouTube is it from oh yeah or like it's in the oh okay yeah I can put it on the website too can embed it on the website and then people can watch it there
01:10:21
Speaker
And like they, Sinisterhood did a thing where they were like, so like that actual interview itself is like, I think just under an hour. But then I thought I read it was two hours, but then I realized I was like, I think I'm confusing that with Sinisterhood does a react thing to it where they pause it every couple minutes and start laughing at them. And it's so good.
01:10:39
Speaker
And it's on their YouTube. Yeah. Oh, okay. Like a live reaction. I was just like making fun of these people. Yeah, yeah so we'll stop edging you guys that haven't heard of them and tell you who they are.
01:10:56
Speaker
um So Jeff and Shalaya, Divine, yes, those are the names, are the couple at the center of this controversial alleged cult. I totally forgot their names. I can still picture them because it comes up every once in a while on...
01:11:12
Speaker
netflix and stuff like the youtube well like the youtube home page too and the one where their arms are up in the air and they're all like ah like it's a stupid can't be commercial or whatever yeah and then it's like reacting to the twin flames thing and i started seeing more of it recently so i thought was like why are people like talking about this a lot more yep this is why yeah okay i didn't listen to any of it so it's a good thing i didn't oh good yeah yeah because i'd like like sinister hood we'll do a like true crime headlines kind of recap like thing on there patreon i mean if you guys want that we'll we'll do it we'll do anything for you on patreon oops nope
01:11:58
Speaker
but
01:12:01
Speaker
patreon plug patreon plug You heard it year first. Just send in your submissions of what you want Alana to, what you want to pay Alana to do on the internet.
01:12:15
Speaker
Obligatory thank you to our patrons. We couldn't do this without you. We love you. You pay for our website. Yeah, pretty much.
01:12:26
Speaker
Go to the website. Please. Help the algorithm. Pictures of these yahoos. So, okay, yeah, so so background on Jeff.
01:12:38
Speaker
um Jeff, ah his original last name was, I believe it's Ayan, which is suspiciously close to the word Arian. Just going to point that out.
01:12:50
Speaker
A-Y-A-N. Sorry, what? I just remember he's got, like, Jesus long brown hair. and he's a skinny looking... gross ass greasy hair looking motherfucker well it's not greasy but yeah he loves his hair they start counting the amount of times he flips his hair when he's nervous in the interview oh like a drinking game that's funny it's over 10 it's over 10.
01:13:23
Speaker
Jeff was born in Michigan and aspired to be a self-help guru Of course. But he seems to... He just wants to help people.
01:13:34
Speaker
What's wrong with that, Alana? Because I've got my shit so together. Right? My name's Jeff. Jeff. How'd you do Yeah, he seems to just want to also be some sort of, yeah, pseudo Jesus figure.
01:13:55
Speaker
Yeah. for sure until you ask him directly about it of course and never said god talk to me um he ah throughout his life spent some time trying on different personas as he worked through it and used some different names which were also very interesting
Controversial Teachings and Practices
01:14:17
Speaker
um yeah it was two or three because one source had these like So it's either Ender Iyanathos and Shephira or Ender comma Iathenos and Shephira.
01:14:32
Speaker
I don't know. Frankly, I don't really care. Those all sound terrible. I know. The only one I've ever heard anywhere else is Ender and people do think that was influenced by that Ender's game or whatever.
01:14:49
Speaker
But definitely he grew up as in a religious Catholic family. um And then on that note, ah this quote, on the Church of Union's website, Jeff claims he first began having ah trend transcendental, mystical, and spiritual experience after being awakened by yoga and meditation, skills he learned from his first spiritual teacher.
01:15:14
Speaker
He later moved to Hawaii, where he first started styling himself as a lifestyle guru under the name Ender Ayanathos. Or whatever the fuck I said. Just stop.
01:15:28
Speaker
Already. ah you trying make yourself more marketable with a name that is unpronounceable? Yeah. um ah This is still the quote. Before founding the Twin Flames universe, Jeff also tried his hand at a few different personal growth and healing businesses, including one where he purported to be a healer.
01:15:50
Speaker
who cures cancer for free as shown on escaping twin flames, end quote.
01:15:57
Speaker
Oh yeah. For sure. Cool, buddy. You have the answer for the cancer, but you're gonna and yeah give it to us for free, for freebies.
01:16:09
Speaker
At least, at least I guess I can give him kudos that he wasn't charging like a thousand dollars to give people that. ah cure for cancer at least they say he was doing it for free but like what what um shoddy like medical um information were you giving people my yeah are they cancer free now i think they also claimed to have the cure for ptsd and then had to stop saying that one
01:16:44
Speaker
Yeah, on Tuesdays, go for a walk, but using only left-hand turns or something. Skipping with you'rere um yeah with your shoes on different the wrong feet.
01:17:01
Speaker
um You just have to change your name to something unpronounceable, clearly. Yeah. Just throw Scrabble letters on the floor. That's your new name. Oh my god.
01:17:13
Speaker
ah don't get me started i'm always lurking in that that subreddit about called tragedy but it's spelled tragedy like like when lee is spelled l-e-i-g-h and like the one today was um something ah the post was like that the name was a little bit more local cultural to it different region than North America or something I guess and so like they were like oh the kid wants to be known by their like nickname which they said cool cool cool the teacher was like fine they said their nickname was like i would say it was pronounced Nazi because it was like N-A-Z-Z-Y
01:17:57
Speaker
But then they found out that the nickname was spelled N-A-Z-I, like Nazi. They were like, going to have to talk to this kid, this teacher kid. So you can go by this nickname here. I don't know if you know what that is, small child, but... You cannot be given your diploma...
01:18:19
Speaker
His little baby Nazi. High school. Yeah. ah Congratulations, Nazi last name. i That will get you on the no-fly list so fucking fast.
01:18:34
Speaker
So bad. oh So speaking of names, Shalea, which I don't mind.
01:18:45
Speaker
That name. i Her assumed name. It's weird, but still.
01:18:50
Speaker
I feel like I just hated on her. i mean because she's so, yeah. She's so white. She did not have the name Shalea.
01:19:03
Speaker
You didn't change it because you hated your name. You changed it to make yourself seem cooler. Yeah. Just like him. um Yeah. Or like because you were changing your gender or something.
01:19:15
Speaker
Which I'm always interested when I get those ones when people are doing like a name change, a legal name change in the healthcare system. And then sometimes I'm like, oh, you're changing genders too. What is your new name? Ooh. I always like that people seem to pick the coolest names.
01:19:32
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes it's like very different from the name they had before. You're like... Okay, formerly Joe. Yeah, now Katerina Stan or something.
01:19:45
Speaker
Yeah. So she was actually born Megan Plant and was hailing, like, was born in Toronto, Canada.
01:19:56
Speaker
Boo. oh We don't claim her. We like to claim our people, but we don't claim her. Raised in North Bay, so I think that's the one outside of Toronto or somewhere else in Ontario.
01:20:09
Speaker
And was living in Arizona when she first met Jeff. She had been a photography student, a Reiki practitioner, and a part-time psychic who worked at a Thai restaurant. Which, like, no shade on any of that.
01:20:20
Speaker
But, yeah, they suck, so... Quite the resume. Yeah. Seems like... random things and then works at a Thai restaurant. Yeah, it's like that part of LA thing where you're an actor slash waiter server.
01:20:36
Speaker
Waitress, yeah. Yeah. um So Shalea, because we don't want to dead name her. Oh no, I shouldn't say that.
01:20:46
Speaker
um She changed her name. Shalea changed her name on advice from her spiritual advisor actually. Who they'd met through a mutual...
01:20:57
Speaker
Scrap that. Try that again. Shalea changed her name on advice from her spiritual advisor and then she met Jeff online in 2014 through a mutual friend.
01:21:11
Speaker
Then he visited her in Sedona where they clicked and she started to get him into her love of tarot and other types of readings and sort of new agey things, I guess. Um, they move in together and they start a blog called awakened intimacy.
01:21:30
Speaker
Which just sounds like a self-help book.
01:21:36
Speaker
Makes me feel gross. Yeah. For her, seemed like it was maybe still more... Like, she found it spiritual. ah But, like, for the guy who wanted to be everyone's best self-help guru, it seemed like it was dollar signs in the eyes. Yeah, yeah for sure.
01:21:56
Speaker
It's like, you don't care about people... And we can tell.
01:22:03
Speaker
They start their own union and they marry or whatever. They start to try and teach others how to find their twin flame. They're doing the sort of YouTuber thing. They're doing YouTube videos, coaching on relationships, which gives in turn a following for them, which they're then able to morph into a business.
01:22:25
Speaker
Which is not to say that's easy to do. So I do have to kind of say kudos to them for like... I don't know. I guess the marketing, but it was such aggressive like... Miracle Cure snake oil marketing too that I'm like...
Critiques and Financial Exploitation
01:22:41
Speaker
For sure. Yeah.
01:22:43
Speaker
And it was like 11 years ago. So people are... Like... It's just... they weren't as aware of like, um, people lying online or.
01:23:00
Speaker
I could see that. And especially not as aware of this group who didn't. Yeah. Have the documentaries. Yeah. Even like cults and. and the sinister different forms they can take.
01:23:12
Speaker
Like they can be called multi-level marketing and that kind of stuff. Like people just weren't as aware or maybe they were aware of it, but they didn't realize like how much of a bad thing it is. Yeah, like I might have said this in the first part, but I don't remember now that there's a podcast out now called it Sounds Like a Cult because it talks about that different, you know, really intense sort of groups of people that all like, you know, Disney people and stuff like that, where you're like, oh, yeah, it's kind of cultish in a way and stuff like that.
01:23:42
Speaker
Yeah, no offense. Disney files.
01:23:47
Speaker
Star Wars people, Outlander people, like obviously I'm part of the ah obsessive fandom groups um so they turn their following their youtube videos blogs and into a business they then register as a non-profit religious organization so they go full scientology off the rails we're a religion and they get to be yeah we don't pay taxes tax breaks
01:24:18
Speaker
Yeah, isn't that nice? We can't do that with a podcast. No. Hey guys, you want to join our cult?
01:24:33
Speaker
creeps and crimes does refer to some of their patreon levels as the OG pick me cult which makes me laugh um so the they called it the church of the union church of union Jesus Christ it's so boring sorry it is i just I remember just watching videos of them talking just being like god Why would you ever want to take the advice of these people? They don't even seem to know what they're saying.
01:25:07
Speaker
yeah But that's the thing. Like, I don't understand even taking relationship advice. Like... As a generic thing. believing. Yeah.
01:25:18
Speaker
Yeah, like, so believing that one couple, because they got married, could possibly have the answers... For every single other couple on the face of the earth.
01:25:33
Speaker
One size fits all, baby. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I don't understand that. And if you're going to do that, at least go to a fucking therapist or a couples therapist about it.
01:25:46
Speaker
Don't go to somebody on Zoom. With no education whatsoever. Other than high school, like... um but They do meditation and yoga, like? yeah
01:26:02
Speaker
And they have a meal plan. Don't forget about that. Of You have to be too hungry to have your brain working properly.
01:26:14
Speaker
Oh, God. So, we'll get to it. The Twin Flames Ascension School was by subscription only. Everything's behind a paywall.
01:26:24
Speaker
and Donate to a Patreon. Yeah, I know.
01:26:33
Speaker
I did laugh when Sinisterhood was like, but subscribe to us ah on YouTube because Jeff and Shalaya have more subscribers than us and that made me mad because these guys are good. Like, they have a lot of followers on, um,
01:26:44
Speaker
their patreon like they make it public where you can see how many like people they have and the money they make on it and like these guys are popular and yet fucking twin flames has more than them i know so they actually say in the video they're like anybody that came here from just like googling twin flames and stuff we want you to know that you know like this is you can listen to their rare videos but this is also good to know yeah let's de-influence people yeah
01:27:17
Speaker
I hated even Googling it on my computer. was like, twin flames, cult! like yeah Yeah, you're like, I don't support you. I don't condone you. Don't send me targeted ads about need relationship advice.
01:27:33
Speaker
No, I didn't click on the link to their website. I was like, nope. Yeah. um So yeah, they kind of do some...
01:27:44
Speaker
I'm going to say more sort of Scientology type things where you're having these meetings and oh yeah breaking people down. And yeah, probably all those psychology bullshit tactics or whatever.
01:27:59
Speaker
What do you most regret? What is your biggest weakness? I'm a perfectionist. Yeah.
01:28:09
Speaker
They use something called the mirror exercise. ah My understanding is a method of teaching sort of assuming some responsibility. ah Like from yourself for setbacks and stuff of your life.
01:28:24
Speaker
It's like, oh, you're not blaming others, but it kind of sounded to me more like self-blame. I don't know. I was like, okay. What did you do wrong? Like, I was like,
01:28:36
Speaker
And the more problematic stuff that the twin flames, uh, pairings are just finding your twin flame, which is the whole concept is that like, they're going to teach you to find your other half, blah, blah, blah.
01:28:49
Speaker
Um, and they said the matches were sort of ordained by God. They're like, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I'm kidding that you should marry that guy. Bingo. Bingo thing. B32 and... oh your ex is your twin flame.
01:29:05
Speaker
Oh, he has a restraining order against you? No, no, no, no. That's just a hurdle. Oh, yeah, i remember that. Right?
01:29:16
Speaker
ah Yeah, they told them the one girl or the... Yeah, was a girl to ignore um ah restraining your order. I remember that.
01:29:27
Speaker
I was like, not good. They're like, these are ordained by God. So even if your flame is not part of the universe, the twin flames universe, even if they don't want you or have already broken up with you and have a restraining order on you because they believe you're ordained to be together, that there has to be like a divine masculine and divine feminine and that those come together.
01:29:50
Speaker
and that's not negative and problematic. yeah because it's more it's like the whole looking outside you complete me another have it's and it starts out kind of like the hetero normative with the divine masculine divine feminine bullshit which i'm like i don't mind the concept of a divine
01:30:18
Speaker
I've kind of heard of this in some but other books. Like I will mention the Celestine Prophecy. I like that one. They have a concept of kind of like not looking to another person to like and validate you or steal their energy, but like you can fill up on divine love by like going and sitting in an old growth forest around some old big trees or like, you know, and connecting with nature and stuff and kind of like filling up your cup and stuff.
01:30:43
Speaker
And I don't mind that, but these guys are just kind of like, you yeah You complete me or you're your you know once you find that other person. yeah That's it. Mathematical equation achieved.
01:30:57
Speaker
Yeah. So it's fully like a pyramid Ponzi MLM scheme now where members are paying like $111 a month, lowest level.
01:31:08
Speaker
They want you to sign up for a PayPal credit card. This reminds me of me trying to find something. Because we get referral bonuses. Come on. was trying to buy like a loaf of bread at Walmart or something.
01:31:22
Speaker
Not that long i ago, honestly. Because sometimes I'm cash poor. And I like accidentally hit like interested in the credit card thing, I think, instead of like, sometimes it's like cashier assistance or like, are you interested in that credit card? Not interested on the self scan or whatever. yeah And you're like, no, fuck.
01:31:41
Speaker
This lady comes over, but do you want to talk about the credit card? Like, no, I want to buy like my $2 bread. yeah but are you sure? I'm like, lady, I don't even think I'm going qualify. I don't even know if this is going to go through. Can you just like, let me buy my fucking bread.
01:31:58
Speaker
Damn. I was about to be like, I have no money.
01:32:05
Speaker
so fucking poor.
01:32:10
Speaker
but look I have a prepaid credit card, ma'am.
01:32:16
Speaker
Although Capital One or something said my credit score went up and I went, woohoo! What is it now? Fair?
01:32:25
Speaker
i keep getting this weird YouTube ad and what is it talking about? It's like, oh yeah, other credit cards.
01:32:36
Speaker
You go through an approval process and sometimes they approve you. And sometimes you don't get approved. But with this credit card, there's no approval process. So within seconds, I just had this money and I was like, what is this ad?
01:32:51
Speaker
How crappy is the interest rate on this thing? Yeah, like Like, what are you paying? And she's like, I used it to pay for my kids' back-to-school supplies and get groceries. i was like, oh, so you really can't afford this interest rate when it comes to the next month.
01:33:08
Speaker
It's a terrible way to face our economy. and that like You have to get credit to like make big purchases, like houses and cars and things. Then you have to get a credit card, basically. and then Or just... It's not good.
Consumer Culture and Economic Pressures
01:33:26
Speaker
But now people can't even afford anything even basic necessity so they have to get a credit card to pay for that too people said they were getting like ten thousand dollar loans out and stuff just to keep buying groceries for their family it's like that's for ridiculous
01:33:42
Speaker
Credit cards, yeah, they really like encourage us to spend beyond our means and just normalize being in debt, I feel like. Yeah, it's the like up cycle. Everything has to be the newest, the latest.
01:33:59
Speaker
Yeah. even if you Even if whatever isn't broken yet, you you've got to get the newest, latest, because, the camera's better. Ooh, this is better. it is a bit of the...
01:34:12
Speaker
Your phone needs to be able to go scuba diving, but do you go scuba diving? No. Why does your phone need to be able to? That reminds me of something i I read where they were like, um, probably read it.
01:34:25
Speaker
Cause there's a lot of like ask a Canadian threads and stuff like that. And they were like, um, there's no like Canadian luxury brands like Prada and Gucci. I don't know. Whatever.
01:34:38
Speaker
and somebody was just like why is that and then like a lot of the replies and stuff were kind of like oh probably because we like put a lot of money into like our our like cars and like um extracurricular activities like outdoor you know rvs and off-road vehicles and like shit like that and and i don't know we're like I don't know. We do care about like wealth and stuff, but in some places of Canada more than others, you know what mean?
01:35:09
Speaker
Like a Ontario and parts of BC are really like kind of ritzy and whatever. But yeah, i don't know. I just, i thought that, well, that's kind of true. Like we tend to spend it on more like things that you can,
01:35:24
Speaker
experience and stuff like that maybe more like sort of like people in europe more so value like having fun in your life and having a good life than like owning a big car and a big house and like especially like america's very bad for that yeah the mcmansions and whatnot but i just thought it was interesting like i don't know what the hell we canadians spend our money on
01:35:53
Speaker
I know what I spend my money on. It's not good. I'm trying to put back. What? Not as much like, do that no-buy year, really, like... You're trying to, like, not buy for a year? Is that what you said?
01:36:11
Speaker
Well, there's, like, a no-buy year, so you don't buy, oh like, stuff unless you actually, like, need it. I feel like I am mostly that way. I sparge on, you know, fucking, yeah, more experiences. Like, food and movies and, like, liquor and stuff.
01:36:30
Speaker
Like, this is not things that last me. But. Yeah. oh Anyway, they had enough money that Jeff got a Corvette for his 30th birthday.
01:36:48
Speaker
take that. Ew.
01:36:52
Speaker
By 2020, they had apparently amassed around 14,000 followers on Facebook. They lost about 2,000 of those, um apparently, after one scathing Vanity Fair article.
01:37:03
Speaker
Go, Vanity Fair! Nice. They turned out to be a lot more cerebral than I thought. They're not like the Cosmo that I thought they were, or the Glamour, even. Yeah, for sure.
01:37:16
Speaker
I have used Vanity Fair quite a few times for articles. Good source. Yeah. ah Yeah. It's like stumbling across a New York times article. You're like, yeah.
01:37:29
Speaker
Actual reporting. Yeah.
01:37:36
Speaker
Oh gosh. This has two different similar names in it. Okay. Um, the vanity fair article, I think I tried to look it up. There was one by Alice Hines. Um, That was written and it apparently also inspired the documentary called Desperately Seeking Soulmate Escaping the Twin Flames Universe. So that one.
01:37:54
Speaker
And the article was called Inside the Always Online All-Consuming World of Twin Flames Universe. Yeah. They basically talked about how the group a claim to find your super spiritual soulmate.
01:38:07
Speaker
Because, you know, they're so like Christian. this group of 99% women. Woo! Plus that. Yeah, just wait. remember that being a problem until they started telling people they should just...
01:38:23
Speaker
We can just assign you masculine energy and maybe you should... That's right. They're like, we we never encouraged people to transition. they did that if they wanted to. Okay, but you kept reinforcing to them that they had masculine energy.
01:38:39
Speaker
yeah, yeah. But they couldn't be with this woman. so Or as they put If they were also a woman. We just encourage people to explore. We didn't tell people to do that.
01:38:51
Speaker
But we just told them that they should be called a different name. And she repeatedly asks them about that. And then he'll just be like... Good.
01:39:02
Speaker
No. I don't like the way you're contextualizing that. Or... We did not... tell people that we just encourage them again we always and encourage them to explore it was an exploration it's like asking a fucking politician a question and they like take 10 minutes to answer it that's the whole fucking interview when he's not being like can i go get a glass of water and he like runs away and this is like dead air while she was like his his mouth gets really dry sometimes
01:39:33
Speaker
That's so funny. Gold. It is gold, Gary. i love it. oh That's why i was like, I'm so tempted to play a flip. All the liquids leaving his body from sweating out through his pores.
01:39:49
Speaker
And he has to flip his hair again.
01:39:54
Speaker
Like a Pantene commercial.
01:39:58
Speaker
Herbal essences. Oh.
01:40:03
Speaker
God, those were the days.
Media Backlash and PR Efforts
01:40:05
Speaker
um Yes, they definitely specifically preyed on any kind of vulnerable people. Their like websites were geared towards lonely, depressed, sometimes even sick people. Like, oh yeah, you need help with PTSD, loneliness, blah, blah, blah.
01:40:22
Speaker
And all that stuff. They are now recently more trying to reclaim their narrative and push back against the alleged cult status claims.
01:40:36
Speaker
But between the whistleblowers and the docuseries that they claim take things out of context and blow it out of proportion, it's been hard.
01:40:46
Speaker
And now, I don't know if they're trying to take like one last Hail Mary to spin the story um because now they've had their they remember they were she was like pregnant at the end of of the documentaries.
01:41:00
Speaker
Yeah. They had a baby. They procreated. Oh no. no Oh yeah. And they talk about her in the video too.
01:41:14
Speaker
Okay, let me just get this quote out of the way. The two welcomed their first child, daughter Grace, in April 2023. And both often pause post, sorry, about their family. In Jeff's first pinned post on Instagram, he shared a video montage of the family in a caption about their twin flame union.
01:41:32
Speaker
Quote, family is everything to us. A loving world is built on loving nations of people made of loving families. What? Someone should tell him not to overuse the That's too many lovings.
01:41:46
Speaker
But wait, there's more. if you act now, throw in another loving. No, but seriously, it goes on. That's four lovings for the price of three.
01:41:59
Speaker
surprise Supplies are limited. Act now. i says homer i know I'm sorry. Loving families are built on harmonious twin flame meat.
01:42:11
Speaker
Twin flame unions. Or union. Lovingly. Now this isn't even sounding English. Be the change you desire to see in the world, he wrote.
01:42:24
Speaker
The golden rule.
01:42:27
Speaker
And i think this is still a quote from people.com. Because it's hit the mainstream. In response to the allegations about them, Jeff and Shalaya posted a lengthy statement on their website where they offered a blanket denial of all claims.
01:42:42
Speaker
The allegations levied against Twin Flame Universe not only distort our true aims, methods, and curriculums, but also misinterpret, misrepresent, sorry, the autonomy of our community members who are free to engage with our resources as they see fit.
01:43:01
Speaker
We are committed to confronting... Sorry. Didn't they have, like, recorded Zoom meetings that they literally, like, just showed in that documentary? So, like, how are you taking that out of context if you're just showing a full Zoom meeting?
01:43:15
Speaker
Totally that. um Yeah, no, it just ended with, we are committed to confronting these allegations in an open and accountable manner. Bullshit.
01:43:26
Speaker
By taking no accountability. When you're being shown the if not figurative receipts, literal videos. Yeah. So this is where it gets stirred up.
01:43:41
Speaker
Enter Avery Haynes of CTV. She gets an email late 2024 with the subject line, we are not a cult. Which she says in the video.
01:43:52
Speaker
Or I got this from a CTV article or whatever. And it was from a crisis PR firm, their words, which were hired by Jeff and Shalaya Divine. By the Divines. What?
01:44:05
Speaker
Yeah. They reached out to Canadians to be like, clear our name. It gives me such Richard Nixon vibes. I am not a crook. We are not a cult.
01:44:20
Speaker
She was intrigued. I not have sexual relations with that woman. Oh my god. Also, sidebar, that Monica Lewinsky has a podcast now. And, like, fuck him. Because she was, like, 20. And I'm so, like, you know what i mean? That's one those stories that it's, like, now we kind of, like... As you get older, you realize, oh yeah, you think she, like, was in control of anything? no she was... Right?
01:44:46
Speaker
It's the fucking president. Of course he's in charge of everything. Yeah. You're going to deny the president a blowjob? I don't fucking think so. Yeah. Ugh. Anyway.
01:45:00
Speaker
She was intrigued as she had heard of them and their former followers calling them puppet masters. Which is not okay. You do not invoke Metallica's master of puppets unless you are Stranger Things.
01:45:13
Speaker
Season 4. which did an awesome, awesome rendition. So they essentially said, come and see the truth for yourself. We have nothing to hide. interview us. And she said, okay, but I'm coming with some questions.
01:45:29
Speaker
No, she didn't. I love that. But like, she was not holding back. No holds barred, if you will. Good for her.
01:45:38
Speaker
Oh, it's so good. So they get to her. They interview them in their home. ah According to one source, their 7,000 square foot mansion in Northern Michigan is carefully curated. Luxury cars in the garage, a fountain fed pool in the backyard and an endless a stream of glossy social media content promoting their lifestyle and message.
01:45:58
Speaker
They allowed our cameras into the home, into their Christmas party, and even into intimate moments with their daughter, Grace. They introduced us to their most loyal followers, some of whom have uprooted their lives to be closer to the divines.
01:46:10
Speaker
They were gracious, confident, and completely unrepentant. They believe they've done nothing wrong. They say they are cult leaders, but spiritual leaders. They are not cult leaders, sorry. But spiritual leaders were victims of cancel culture.
01:46:25
Speaker
I misread that. My bad, CTV.
01:46:29
Speaker
I was just gonna say. They were doing so good. in delight I fucking listen. Oops. Freudian slip.
01:46:40
Speaker
Oops, all cult leaders. Yeah. and Oh my god. Don't say we're cult leaders. Don't say we're cult leaders. We're cult leaders.
01:46:53
Speaker
Hi, Gordo. Be over there.
01:46:59
Speaker
Sorry, I am almost done. So I love it. ah Yeah, she questions them. as I mentioned, she wasn't like aggressive because, you know, people get their backs up. They get defensive.
01:47:15
Speaker
but just like in a calm, She's sneaky about it. Yeah, in a controlled voice, manner, no emotions, basically. Questions like, but why do you your followers claim you use isolation tactics, unpaid labor, brainwashing?
01:47:33
Speaker
i Okay, I don't, yeah, you don't like how I'm framing that, but why do then your leader, your followers, you know, say they've been hurt or like, She just literally keeps coming back to the facts of people being like, this was hurtful. This was fucked up. And she just doesn't let like go. Even when he stops for water.
01:47:54
Speaker
yeah Didn't they have like they had their followers doing courses? Like, for the other followers?
01:48:07
Speaker
in order Oh yeah, like the counselors are just other... People in the yeah MLM. And like none of them had qualifications. and Oh no. Yeah. They're totally like getting relationship advice and stuff from like just the other Yeah.
01:48:24
Speaker
Who are also not in relationships. It's just so bad. I know. It's crazy that like yeah.
01:48:36
Speaker
That they prey on people's vulnerabilities to get them But they're so good at manipulation. That's what always comes back to all of these. It's just somebody that's just so good and like naturally good at manipulation that they probably are so good they don't even realize they're doing it.
01:48:55
Speaker
Like they truly believe they're helping people. That's it. I think it. Yeah. Yeah. They've deluded themselves so much that people are like, well, they believe it and and stuff like that. Like that's maybe oversimplifying it. But yeah, yeah, exactly.
01:49:11
Speaker
um she was asking why are they pushed into forced relationships or encouraged to quote unquote to try out a different gender your divine opposite i e coerced uh gender full gender transitions for some people because yeah it's like you said they had too many women And then it was like, well, we can't then find a guy for every woman within our group, which is kind of the problem they came to you with. They couldn't find a good partner.
01:49:41
Speaker
um And then you were just like, well, it just came to me that then you should, like, Kelsey, your divine partner is Lana. well. Rock, paper, scissors. Who's the man?
01:49:53
Speaker
Yes.
01:49:57
Speaker
Can you imagine? like I know all cults indoctrinate people, but Jesus. Gordo, immediately with the blinds. like what then he just kind of like laid down.
01:50:11
Speaker
He absquatulated, I will.
01:50:15
Speaker
Yeah, he's like, that wasn't me. My arms just hang in here like this. And but you turned around and he went belly down on top of that cat rest thing. Like, I wasn't moving. Yeah.
01:50:28
Speaker
Are we recording video? Is that my camera proof? Play that back later. ah Oh, I'm going Okay, did i have it open still? I'll send you the link of the... So... Yeah, by the way, if people want the original one the CTV interview, when it's on YouTube, is under... the YouTube channel is called The Official W5.
01:50:59
Speaker
And you can find it with the exclusive interview. you know, it's on Official W5. and Avery Haynes. If you, if you, yeah, Avery Haynes will take you there.
01:51:11
Speaker
God, I love her. oh yeah, I was gonna put that in here. I'll put the, I'll put the link our Zoom meeting, Zencaster, whatever.
01:51:25
Speaker
But we'll let everyone peruse at their leisure and I will end it with a couple of paragraphs.
01:51:35
Speaker
Oh, to end it in Avery's words, the, the journalist herself that I have to keep giving props to, cause man, it was amazing. And if you find it, you'll see, she looks like that. Um, uh, what's her name?
01:51:50
Speaker
Oh, I don't know if you know her Tulsi Gabbard. She's an American politician. So who knows what people think? Cause everyone's got opinions on those, but like, um,
01:52:03
Speaker
it's like that It's just that hairstyle where like they keep they go like white at the front. I just keep touching my hair. Yeah. Like kind of a Cruella de Vil, but on both sides. Anyway. Yeah. So Avery said at the end of her article, their followers are promised divine union, but some say they left the group with broken families, broken identities, and drained bank accounts.
Consequences for Followers and Leader Denials
01:52:26
Speaker
Inside the mansion, everything looks controlled, polished, safe, But outside, former members are telling a different story, one of pressure, fear, and spiritual manipulation. Jeff and Shalaya say they are leading people to love, but the question is no longer what they promised. it It's what it costs to believe them.
01:52:47
Speaker
So yeah, now they have a little kid they were asked about her also in the interview. and well, what are you going to say to her about your parents or, I don't know, some generic sort of question about their kid and they went oh like maybe if she was gonna find a twin flame and they were like yeah our daughter yeah we just um we feel like she has like a monastic presence and like it's just not me that's kind of what the avery said and they were like
01:53:19
Speaker
She was like, oh, you mean kind of like like a monk? And they were yeah, just, you know, to someone who just connects with the divine, spiritual. And, like, I was like, okay.
01:53:31
Speaker
So everything that you're drinking the Kool-Aid about, making ah other people drink your Kool-Aid, you're not going to feed one ounce of that to your daughter because you've decided when she comes out of the womb that she's going to be a fucking nun, basically.
01:53:45
Speaker
Like, what? Yeah. Yeah. basically just saying oh we're not sexualizing our child god no and the sex part too because then they she asked them about how there was interviews where he had said stuff that was really cringy and almost like rapey where it was like well if your partner's not in the mood for it but you want it well then you're a twin flames union so they should just make sure it happens and then She like asked them about that And she was like well She was like it's hard to say Cause like sometimes like He might come to me and it's like You know I say i don't want it but you know ah kind of do want it you know was just like Okay what Like in some ways yes Like maybe you're you're allowed to change your mind But Yeah yeah but so if I say like no It's like it's a real no
01:54:41
Speaker
And it was it was just just like really weirdly worded weirdly where you're like, yeah yeah, obviously sometimes maybe your partner's a little bit more in the mood than you are and you might have to be coaxed into it or whatever. but like, it's, it's hopefully not like you're like, no, I didn't think I wanted it. But then when he wanted it, I realized, oh yeah, I want to have sex. It's like, wait, what?
01:55:04
Speaker
Oh no, I just saw him play with his hair. It was so distracting. Yeah. Did you pull out the video? Oh, I was like, I'm watching it on I'm watching it on mute, but hold on. I have to replay this because the way he just flipped his hair.
01:55:18
Speaker
oh my god, I was watching you. think I pulled it up on my phone because I was like, i if I could get... oh I don't know how many clips, like, how long of a clip you're allowed to play, but, like, it's so good.
01:55:31
Speaker
I feel bad telling people, like, go watch It looks like he, like, flipped his hair from, like... Oh, yeah, he just went...
01:55:40
Speaker
It's coming up on my shorts now. Part six, we're not a cult. oh Will this play into the mic? so Oh no, I turned it on. oh I've never seen somebody p flip their hair like he just did. what like He went like this and like grabbed the back and then went... Flipped it so far. Yes, the whole thing.
01:56:02
Speaker
like can't possibly get this off my neck. It wasn't like from the front. It was like he grabbed the opposite side and did it. I have to watch it again. It's the most awkward mo movement I've ever seen.
01:56:16
Speaker
gonna see if I can pull up. There's a short. It's also one of the most watched parts.
01:56:23
Speaker
Hang on. There's a short on my YouTube. Maybe that'll just be easier to listen to. it Okay, hang on.
01:56:31
Speaker
Can you hear that? A little bit, yeah. Oh, shit. Oh, shit. This is the interview I thought maybe I could play it.
01:56:45
Speaker
Oh my god. Okay. Go to like 15 minutes and 30 seconds. It's not working. Sorry. It's so good. You should do. W5, CTV, Avery Haynes, ah Twin Flames Universe.
01:57:01
Speaker
Please, guys. its scott It's got a lot more news now. Sorry. I'm gonna timestamp it. Everybody go to 15 minutes, 30 seconds to see the most bizarre hair flip you've ever seen in your life.
01:57:14
Speaker
That's what I was kind of tempted to do before we started recording. i was like, oh, I should pull up the video and tell Kelsey to go, like, minute 10 or something. And then I was like, oh, I didn't, like, have the time, but... It's so distracting.
01:57:31
Speaker
It's so painful, too, when she, like, asks something he doesn't like, and then he's just like... oh, is it okay if I grab a glass of water? Like, you're in your own house, dude. And then, like, it just, like, is silence while he goes and grabs it because, like, but yeah they ask him something that he just doesn't want to answer.
01:57:50
Speaker
Is it okay if I exit the room? Because I don't want to be here. you but the fact that he did that once and then, like, did it again and then it was like, is it okay if I just leave it down here? He's like, Yeah.
01:58:01
Speaker
leave the water bottle beside you. It's not on camera. You're fine. Oh, okay, okay. So I can't use as a excuse again. Like he's never been on camera before. They've recorded thousands of videos and... They asked for this!
01:58:17
Speaker
You brought these people into your house, you dummy. You idget.
01:58:23
Speaker
oh It's so funny. have to at the other most replayed parts.
01:58:35
Speaker
ah Well, because there's nothing worse than like, you know, like on air silence. Like if me and Kelsey would sit here and not say anything for 30 seconds. Oh my God. Longest 30 seconds of your life. It would feel like a minute a half.
01:58:48
Speaker
I'll be listening to us when I'm editing sometimes and I'll be like, oh, that was an awkward pause. I'll look and it's two seconds long. And I'm like, oh. I know. I'm like, did we leave? Oh, no, no.
01:59:01
Speaker
Someone just looked down or something. Yeah. yeah well i guess i forgot how much i hated them oh so bad he's just he's got that punchable face which oh my god reddit has told me there's there's like a german word for like punchable face and i was like of course there is germany's got every word for everything yeah i love them
01:59:30
Speaker
yeah everybody go watch this interview yeah everybody go watch that escaping the twin flames i i liked that one um watch the react react one on sinisterhood too because oh my god so funny they're both from texas and they're like He's fixing to do this, this idiot. They're like, yeah, that's a fucking tool.
01:59:56
Speaker
Oh, sorry. What were you saying? I just look at him and I'm like, oh, why? Why are you listening to him? Just flipping his hair like he's got the best hair. Really? It's just long hair. That's kind of thin.
02:00:12
Speaker
Just long, thin brown hair. That's straight. Great, you look like a fucking dime store Jesus. That's probably super inaccurate. Good for you. You're a skinny white dude with probably small dick.
02:00:28
Speaker
Good lord. But I feel bad. They have a kid now. Oh my gosh. That would suck have that as parents. That kid has no chance if they're still being raised by these parents.
02:00:45
Speaker
come like called her grace yeah lovely name but then already saying that she has a monastic soul scared i'm scared yeah like that's really like weird yeah it's like naming them chastity and being like yeah we're quakers from like the like
02:01:06
Speaker
i don't know amish whatever i'm offending all the people
02:01:17
Speaker
Stop me now. oh All right. Well, that was my case. I'm all done. I don't know how long this is going to be. I can't remember how long yours was.
02:01:29
Speaker
ah About an hour, I think. Yeah, I think so. yeah I don't think it was excessively long. So should be good. And i guess we'll say goodbye to the people. And now we can tell them what we're talking about next time. Cause we, we figured it out.
02:01:47
Speaker
Um, our next episode, which will be out in another two weeks on our, our current schedule. Uh, Ooh, is going to be coming out September 19th as we just figured out. Yeah.
02:02:04
Speaker
And we're going to focus focus on some Mabon celebrations. It's one of the festivals on the the wheel of the year. And that's about all I know about it. So we'll see.
02:02:17
Speaker
Should be fun. So it's almost fall. It is. Yes. And thank you guys for your patience while we've been, you know, adjusting and doing two weeks at a time to make sure that you guys get your good content that you've come to know and love.
02:02:34
Speaker
and yeah, we really appreciate y'all and we'll see you next couple weeks. Bye. Keep it cryptic.
02:03:10
Speaker
Thank you for listening to Castles Encrypted. We love all our listeners and appreciate every subscriber, every new review, every listen, rate, and download. Our music is by Kobe Offair and our cover art is by Antonio Garcia.
02:03:24
Speaker
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02:03:38
Speaker
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02:03:50
Speaker
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