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186: Heist, Heist, Maybe (Murder)?
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Heading to Argentina this week, to see what true crimes we can find there, and boy did we find a few. Starting off with a wild yet mostly harmless robbery.
Remember our first heist episode, 10,000 years ago? Neither do we, but we know Kelsey's case had fake mustaches, just like this case, but this one sees your fake mustache, and raises you a fake yarmulke! It's kind of bonkers really, with Ninja turtle inspired plans and themed names, negotiations by Pizza the hut*, and elaborate plans, this case is a real Oceans 7-11 meets the Italian-American job!
Then it's a well-known murder case of Maria Marta Garcia Belsunce, a prominent sociologist and VP of Missing Children Argentina. Except at first it wasn't considered a murder, and then it was, and things got way more complicated from there. Convictions, appeals, cover-ups, and unprecedented court rulings, this one is a doozy of a case as well. But screw you, Netflix (Canada) for keeping us from the real details! Why do you always screw over your neighbours to the north. At least Kelsey's case we can watch still. LOL
Oh and enjoy 8 minutes of cat outtakes and extra crap at the end, you're welcome and lucky I got some out of the episode itself!!!
Darkcast Promo of the week: Conspiring to Argue Pod
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Transcript
Introduction and Pet Antics
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm starter.
00:00:03
Speaker
Darkcast Network. Indie pods with a dark side.............
00:00:25
Speaker
Welcome to Castles and Cryptids, where the castles are haunted, the cryptids are cryptic as fuck, and the cats are laying down by the microphone.
00:00:37
Speaker
He's like, sorry ah bonus it's one thing when you do this when it's a Lana segment. It's another thing when you get this in the way through my segment.
00:00:49
Speaker
I got to get out my laptop. If he wants to be a star, he's got to realize this is not a visual medium. We have got to get our YouTube cameras on before he starts laying himself down right when I start talking.
00:01:03
Speaker
Or splaying himself down, maybe, is what you'd rather call that. Yeah. I know. He's just Marilyn Monroe's it every time anyone tries to talk. He's, I'm right in front of Hi. hi Yes, he's voguing and posing.
00:01:21
Speaker
Yeah. Oh, my God. Sorry. And Gordo is the cat, if you're new here.
Episode 186 and Pet Challenges
00:01:28
Speaker
um
00:01:31
Speaker
This is an episode. I think it's 186. Yep. That's the one. that That's what I got.
00:01:39
Speaker
Gordo. think this is the last too. Also. Yeah. Comes out very shortly. i think you want to go in the box.
00:01:51
Speaker
I think you want to get in the box. What's in the box? It's going to be Gordo.
00:02:00
Speaker
but Come on, buddy. I can't do- ah i can't record you like that. You gotta go. Oh, pardon me. Yes, I know.
00:02:12
Speaker
You either gotta to go or you gotta get in the box. Get in this box. Get in the box.
00:02:23
Speaker
Buddy, you're gonna get kicked out so early in this episode. Come on. you're in the way here you go
00:02:35
Speaker
no cut i'll i'll try to cut cat and shenanigans but yeah that our dogs went the same way out today so annoying he lets him out we let him back in you let him outside he barks and you let him back in 30 seconds later you're just like god damn it dog yeah sometimes it's a struggle for sure I'm sure Gordo would be the same way if he had to go outside for any reason. It would be constantly in and out, in and out, in and out.
00:03:04
Speaker
Oh, I changed mind. I'd love to see Gordo on like a little leash or something. It'd be hilarious. Yeah, maybe one day. He's got to get a bunch of shots and stuff, I think, if I do that.
00:03:17
Speaker
um a Backyard cat. Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. i can get like a little steak or... I'd have to... He'd got to be tethered down to something really strong because he's he weighs quite a bit. If he's trying to pull something, he could easily pull furniture.
00:03:40
Speaker
So, yeah. feel like I've got find something. Sled cat.
00:03:47
Speaker
I don't know. I'm going to, like, oh tie him to a tree. i don't have it All I got is a lilac bush in the backyard now. I don't know what else I could tether I have two dying cedar trees in my backyard. I don't know.
00:04:03
Speaker
you Yeah. Oh my god. um Yeah, we should tie my dog to them and get him to pull them out like a loose tooth.
00:04:14
Speaker
No, we can't. A tree to come I mean, he's practically a husky. He would make a good sled dog, I feel like.
00:04:28
Speaker
Yeah. yeah He sometimes wants to run. And I'm like, we start to go for a walk. I'm like, you want to run? Let's jog for a minute. give it up your sister Yeah.
00:04:39
Speaker
Before you have to. I have to catch my breath. Yeah. Yeah. That would be hard. Yeah.
00:04:51
Speaker
No pet detective him. Although. He's pretty smart, but yeah. That was a fun episode we did recently. yeah
00:05:06
Speaker
I think my brother said that the bird, a couple of the bird cases got covered on Mr. Ballin and I didn't know that. i was like, oh. yeah Oh, really?
Patreon and Social Media
00:05:15
Speaker
That's funny. Yeah, i was like, they come up when you look up like pet cases. So yeah, that doesn't surprise me. But yeah, he covers a wide range.
00:05:24
Speaker
um Oh, yes. and speaking of a wide range of things, what did we just put out for Patreon? Oh, yeah, it was my Reddit ah sort of roundup internet Alana saves situation.
00:05:43
Speaker
Yeah, it was quite funny. good because I decided to when I put it out um they were like oh which members do you want to put it out to and I was like you can put it out to the free members too they might want a taste of this because people signed up for like previews but they don't get any episodes unless you give them like a sort of preview like I know other podcasts have done oh okay I was like yeah you guys should try this one it's good nice that's a good one yeah
00:06:17
Speaker
Yeah. And then it does things like where it's like, do you want to drop this episode? I don't know why did that in a weird voice like I was doing it over Zach Bagans, but...
00:06:31
Speaker
ah
00:06:33
Speaker
but Yeah, it'll be like, you can drop it. And then I was like, I guess, well, it may be in like a day or two. And then it was like, yep, it's coming out in five days. And i was like, wait, when did I agree to that? And it's like, this weird new feature it has.
00:06:46
Speaker
I swear, this is like me getting used to scheduling the episodes on this our latest you know pod app or whatever sometimes it's just a little trial and error right yeah yeah in a couple days oh yeah it's gonna come out on friday with our our new episode so okay cool ah yeah our free members can get a taste of our latest episode where we oh did some animity assholes and some yep
00:07:20
Speaker
sexy folklore-ish stories and and see if they want to join our patreon yeah oh my god anyway should be a good time and i'll try to remember to post about it but god damn it instagram and all those other social medias are
International True Crime: Argentina Heist
00:07:41
Speaker
dead to me lately i gotta to get back on the tiktok if i want us to get viral so
00:07:48
Speaker
i yeah i haven't been going on much but no i don't think in many people are like you put things out and they get a couple likes but i'm like eh don't know yeah We'll get some engagement next time we get together. I'll force you into a video.
00:08:09
Speaker
Sounds dangerous. Okay. No, but we'll come prepared. Take a cute video with one of our animal mascots and or both of them.
00:08:21
Speaker
An intro video where we go, this is Gordo. And then we go to my place. We go, this is Ben. And then we go join our TikTok. Because God damn it.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah. yeah And they're so fucking cute. um anyway what are you what are we talking about today did i say i don't think so we did yet ah we decided it had been a while since we had done an international true crime episode so this time we are going to argentina we're heading south yes that's right you're right um it was about time we went there ah was like i thought we had done argentina or brazil or something but i could have sworn we did too so i looked back through my notes i remember that i was going we did argentina you were like i don't think so and i was like nope you're right thank yeah
00:09:22
Speaker
Like this, I think might be the furthest. I'm trying to look at the map. I mean, the bottom of Argentina is more south than New Zealand, i guess. So this might be the furthest south that we've ever done. but They call that region.
00:09:43
Speaker
They call that region Patagonia. Patagonia. Yeah. Like Southern Chile and all that. They get the penguins. Yeah.
00:09:53
Speaker
Yeah. That's super south. Holy shit. um Yeah. I'm excited. we need to like, I love focusing on regions that ah we don't get to go to physically or otherwise.
00:10:06
Speaker
Yeah. Right. Yeah. I feel like we learned something somewhere we haven't been. and where our ancestors aren't even from because we have done a lot of Europe.
The Heist of the Century: Setup and Strategy
00:10:18
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. oh So yeah, nice to and change things up.
00:10:25
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And like, talk about a crime. i don't know, not well, but like, you look up. and stuff comes up like serial killers from south america was like this guy from colombia and you know this guy from i think you had covered one guy that was from brazil because he had killed a shit ton of people yeah this i think he came up yeah he had all these tattoos or whatever And had killed like at least 100 people, maybe more. And I was I think Kelsey talked about that dude. I think that was our highest kill count or something episode. Oh, yay yeah.
00:11:06
Speaker
Yeah. Serial killers of the killer-iest. Yeah. Yeah. ah I decided to go a bit of a different route this time. I thought it'd be interesting to do a type of like robbery. Robbery.
00:11:24
Speaker
uh oh and stand yeah i thought that might and it just so happened get excited like it's gonna be a heist i'm sorry and like it is it is it is heist i and love the heist ah
00:11:42
Speaker
i actually and so you have the fun one oh maybe we should have had you go last no it's okay anyway It's okay. When we edit the episode, can just swap it.
00:11:55
Speaker
It's truly, like, truly. And that's why we drink. They start out with Em's case, which is always, like, the paranormal, mysterious one. And then goes Christine, who has the true crime. And they go, well, I don't know how we end that. That sucks.
00:12:09
Speaker
Yeah, right. I feel it sometimes with true crime. Yeah, you're just like... Well, anyway, bye. oh Okay, I'm so excited. Until next time. um This one I actually knew about before because there's like a Netflix documentary about it, which I talk about at the end.
00:12:29
Speaker
ah So I actually knew this one. I had thought about covering it for one of our prior episodes. But i decided not to. So then when I looked up like robberies in Argentina and it came up, I was like, oh, now I do have to cover this ah because.
00:12:47
Speaker
a i never thought to look up robberies. Ooh, smart, smart, smart. Yeah. ah So I had lots of fun with this and it made me want to rewatch the documentary, but I didn't get around to it. um And yours sounds kind of nervous.
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah. It is murderless. It's amazing.
00:13:11
Speaker
Also, there yeah, if you can still watch the decade documentary, the documentary in yours, then you have a leg up because mine said there was a Netflix one, but I could not find it on the Canadian Netflix.
00:13:24
Speaker
Oh, that really sucks. Yeah.
00:13:30
Speaker
uh yeah mine um i remember watching it and just thinking it was so fascinating um ah yeah i was really excited to get to cover it um it is the robbery of the banco rio uh which is the Yeah, um it's one of Argentina's largest banks.
00:13:55
Speaker
And this robbery has also been kind of nicknamed the heist of the century ah because of all the stuff that goes down. It's kind of... Yeah. I don't want to say fun, because it's a bank robbery. It was probably terrifying well people involved. No, but they had a tendency, especially at the beginning of, I think, like the last century, to call everything the the crime of the century and that.
00:14:23
Speaker
So I think that totally tracks and is fun. And they didn't know what was to come. it was the crime of the century so far.
00:14:35
Speaker
ah So it all starts, a I almost said the morning, the afternoon of oh my god, I didn't realize. it was a Friday 13th. no.
00:14:47
Speaker
Oh no. i It was January so not too long ago i mean, years now, but so sad to say
00:15:04
Speaker
Oh my god. 19 years now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I suppose you're
00:15:15
Speaker
right. Police are notified that there's a robbery in progress in, I want to say, Akasuso? Akasuso? An affluent so ah suburb north.
00:15:30
Speaker
Sorry. An affluent suburb...
00:15:35
Speaker
North of Buenos Aires. Hmm. Yeah. So kind of more well-off neighborhood. And police are quick to arrive at the bank.
00:15:46
Speaker
ah Again, it's one of Argentina's largest banks. And they surround the building and watch as the bank's security guard is... i don't know if he was forced out, but he, like, stumbles out of the bank.
00:15:59
Speaker
So he's no longer inside. Hmm. And he informs them that they people that ah went into the bank have taken hostages inside.
00:16:13
Speaker
So it's kind of sealed down now. Yeah. Okay. I remember covering the Stockholm bank case that inspired the Stockholm Syndrome. That's what I thought of, too.
00:16:25
Speaker
Right? Yeah. I thought of that one quite a bit when I did this. no i hope I hope they're going to be as gentle those ones. Yeah, we'll get to it.
00:16:36
Speaker
mean... Those guys were actually, like, decent, I felt like. Yeah. Yeah. and everything's more nuanced once you know like the whole story I suppose right ah minutes later another of the bank's guards come out I think there was only two ah this time there's also a man ah that's wearing a mask and a grey suit he's most often referred to as the man in the grey suit yeah um or the man in the suit
00:17:11
Speaker
Yeah, ah and with him is one of the hostages. so yeah, another security guard comes out and the guy in the gray suit comes out with one of the hostages.
00:17:22
Speaker
ah This time the police are still surrounding the building and there's now snipers that are stationed atop trees and neighboring buildings watching this all go down. Oh, wow.
00:17:35
Speaker
Yeah. Gets intense very quickly. boy
00:17:43
Speaker
ah The masked man wants to negotiate with the police.
Negotiations and Surprising Hospitality
00:17:48
Speaker
ah He tells them or the police learn that there are five thieves and there are 23 hostages inside the bank.
00:17:56
Speaker
And the police are in a pretty tough spot. ah Just six years before this, there was a similar bank robbery that involved three masked men that had happened.
00:18:10
Speaker
And hostages were actually used as like human shields. And there was a shootout between the police and the ah robbers that ended up resulting in the death of two of the hostages and one robber.
00:18:22
Speaker
So, ah kind of a really bad situation had unfolded and this had all been televised, the whole situation on TV, like live, as people were getting shot and the shootout was happening. So, it was really bad. and Yeah,
00:18:41
Speaker
not good publicity and it can be like, yeah, worst case scenario can be a lot of people dead in these type of situations. Yeah. Yeah, so that one had the death of three people and it sparked a national scandal.
00:18:56
Speaker
And ah yeah, it was just really bad. So they wanted to do better this time. And as the media began to arrive at the scene and start broadcasting this new robbery happening,
00:19:10
Speaker
And police knew that they had to approach things differently. So they really wanted to lean into the negotiations, um as opposed to like, using force or forcing their way in or anything like that.
00:19:24
Speaker
Okay. Yeah. This goes on for the next six hours. Police are negotiating with the man in the gray suit.
00:19:37
Speaker
I don't know if this whole time he has that poor want single hostage with him because that would suck. Yeah.
00:19:47
Speaker
And has he still got his tie on with his gray suit? Does he still look impeccable? ah Yeah. Uh...
00:19:58
Speaker
I think I read somewhere too. And I really wish I could have rewatched the documentary. um Because those ones are always good. I'm sure there was lots of footage of this.
00:20:09
Speaker
i don't really remember because it's been like years since I watched it the first time. But I did read in one of the sources that said like during that time as like kind of... goodwill towards the police. They had released two of those 23 hostages um during that six hours.
00:20:27
Speaker
i don't know how true that is. I only saw that in one spot. but Okay. um The man in the gray suit during this six hours is reassuring them that the hostages are uninjured and are being treated well.
00:20:43
Speaker
And eventually he kind of out-surprises the police by telling them that they're ready to surrender. just kind out nowhere where he's like hey we're gonna surrender uh without getting what they were like what were they even asking for who knows who fucking knows uh aren't they in a bank already oh yeah yeah he's trying to get out maybe yeah something they've all been getting out
00:21:14
Speaker
uh so he tells them before they'll surrender though they say quote bring us some pizzas bring us some soda and we'll have a little food and surrender that's what the man in the gray suit was we want to have a little pizza party and then we'll surrender to you and the cops are like okay cool and they order some pizza They turned to the song and like, might as well go for a soda, nobody hurts.
Mysterious Disappearance of Robbers
00:21:41
Speaker
Nobody hurts.
00:21:45
Speaker
Because i was yeah I was like, what the fuck are they saying in this song? Also, we don't call it soda, we call it pop. well yeah Just like some of you northern states do. Oh my god, that's it.
00:22:00
Speaker
so funny so they ask but but like yeah or were they actually ordering little kids because pizza doesn't mean pizza you know deep conspiracy pizzaate my god no they were actually ordering pizza i I didn't run across anything that exactly said how the pizza got into the building. I'm assuming the man in the gray suit and the hostage that was with him, like, are the ones that actually took it inside the bank.
00:22:33
Speaker
Okay. But don't have confirmation on that. um So the man in the gray suit, the hostage, disappear inside the bank. And afterwards, the police's attempts to make contact with any of them inside the bank are failing.
00:22:51
Speaker
They've been trying multiple times. um Because they were supposed to surrender, right? They were just going to eat and surrender, but they're not able to make contact. Nobody's... Nobody's coming outside. it's been ah three hours now and they're still just waiting for them to come outside. And you just gave them free pizza.
00:23:13
Speaker
I hope it was good. Yeah. I don't know. ah don't know. and There is pictures of somebody holding the pizza. Hold on.
00:23:27
Speaker
There's pictures.
00:23:30
Speaker
um i had such there were such good pictures so i thought from my last episode but then when i went to actually put some on instagram i was like they're not very clear pictures although i'm amazed that there's actually pictures of a guy hanging out of an airplane because they're staged like they were still like very oh yeah yeah ah So the only pictures I see of the pizza, the pizza part of this case is ah they must have been put in different boxes by the police because it's just kind of brown, brown, nondescript pizza boxes.
00:24:09
Speaker
Sorry. Oh, no. The plain, yeah, there's plain white box. This bank robbery is not sponsored. ah It's not sponsored. Some really good local pizza, maybe.
00:24:21
Speaker
Probably. i don't know. Are at camp that like even really bad pizza is still good pizza? Or are you kind of like, Oh, no. I hate... I hate barbecue chicken pizza. like Yeah, same. I don't like donair pizza.
00:24:39
Speaker
I will suffer through a ham and pineapple. um you donair, I'm an East Coast girl, so I am more partial to that. But yeah, same with the barbecue chicks chicken. Like, like i i'd love donairs, but for some reason, I've just never had, like,
00:24:55
Speaker
a good donair pizza find like the sauce is the place you can get it from out here is pizza 73 which is disappointing yeah to say the least yeah i just don't don't like it It's unfortunate, yeah.
00:25:10
Speaker
Yeah. I do like a places that do the pesto sauce. um You can do like chicken and pesto. Those ones are good. Yeah.
00:25:22
Speaker
yeah yeah But the barbecue sauce ones, the Alfredo sauce ones, I don't... Nah. No, but I don't want a white sauce if like done right. There was one we used to get from the grocery store called a Parisian. i don't know if it was...
00:25:38
Speaker
Giuseppe brand or one of those like you know delicioso or whatever but like it was uh yeah it was like bechamel white sauce and chicken and bit of mushrooms and spinach and like bacon and so like that doesn't sound too bad yeah right like white sauce chicken bacon oh yeah but we can't find it anymore anyway yeah they're always discontinuing the best stuff I have to learn how to make it myself.
00:26:10
Speaker
Yeah. God damn it. ah okay So yeah, they've sent in the pizza. They've waited three hours. Haven't seen anybody come out of the bank.
00:26:21
Speaker
Haven't been able to make contact with them. So they decide to send in a team of like special forces. So at 7 p.m. there's these like special force armed agents that force their way inside the bank.
00:26:35
Speaker
Oh no, they might just be in a pizza coma. Right? They're too full. I don't know, it looked like they delivered like five pizzas for, what, 28 people? ah um not great.
00:26:53
Speaker
Hard to say. I mean, in a hostage situation, would I want to eat pizza? I don't know. this point, I've been there for like 10 hours, so maybe.
00:27:06
Speaker
Right. um Yeah, so these armed agents, they force their way inside the bank. They find the hostages unharmed and no signs of the robbers other than a note, which I don't really understand the note. Yeah.
00:27:28
Speaker
Like, i sort of get it, but I don't quite. It says, in a neighborhood of rich people, without weapons or grudges, it's only money and no love. In a of rich people.
00:27:46
Speaker
Without weapons or grudges, it's only money and no love. Like, I could understand in a neighborhood of rich people, it's only money and no love.
00:27:58
Speaker
But I don't understand the without weapons or grudges. I don't understand how that ties in. I don't understand how that ties in. um Because rich people have weapons and grudges.
00:28:10
Speaker
so And someone's trying to make their angry manifesto into a little poem. little haiku. Yeah. Like if it didn't have that middle part, I would totally understand it. Like in a neighborhood of rich people, it's only money and no love. Like people don't have love for each other. They're helping out each other. It's only about the money.
00:28:29
Speaker
Yeah, if they want to rill against the man and also sound poetic, like, maybe they should go jam up to some more system of a down and then come back to us when they have some more, like... Yeah, that's very 2006. I don't know. Wait, when was this? This is 2006. Are we both in 2006? Mine,
00:28:44
Speaker
um... Mine was early 2000s as well, yes, but,
00:28:50
Speaker
ah we both in two thousand my um mine my two thousand s as well yes but um Oh, okay. I think, I think I was thinking maybe of them from having, I was driving Pat's car a bit and he had some of their CVs in there. And then I had to smooth it down stuck in my head for like two weeks from driving Pat's car.
00:29:13
Speaker
And then also I'd get back in my car. Like we were driving my car to the um Home Depot the other day and he goes to get in and i was like, yeah, you gotta get out the keys. And then I was like, yeah, as soon as I drive his car for like two or three days, I'm like,
00:29:28
Speaker
so used to his keyless entries yeah get back to my car and i'm like what i gotta get my keys out i said to him like a caveman yeah you get so used to it so fast yeah it's wild yeah how fast we get used to being like rich people ah Yeah, ooh la la.
00:29:53
Speaker
I did read somewhere that, just because you kind of said, oh, how how nice were they to these hostages? Well, they sang to them at some point, maybe.
00:30:05
Speaker
oh they were like singing songs and everything they for their six hours. Yeah, it was all not not bad. um I'd have to re-watch the documentary. i Honestly, I want to watch it again.
00:30:20
Speaker
don't know. ah bad singing. Blast in your ears.
00:30:28
Speaker
Or just Zazu in the line going, I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts. Anyway.
00:30:36
Speaker
Yeah. Sorry. That's cute. My childhood. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:44
Speaker
um a So, yeah police get in. They can't find the robbers. They find the hostages unharmed. ah Overall, these five robbers had somehow broke into and cleaned out 143, something said safes, but it was more like safety deposit boxes.
00:31:05
Speaker
um So the ones that are like in the wall. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah, they had broken into 143 of these and made off with an estimated $19 million. Dang.
00:31:19
Speaker
But how had they done it? Because where did they go?
00:31:24
Speaker
i watched Logan Lucky. I don't know. they They put some gummy bears in a baggie. Yeah. no peaking oh my god daniel fucking craig in that role oh so funny love that movie ocean 7-11 heist movie ocean 7-11 come on hilarious all the way all the way um oh yeah so police began systematically sweeping every corner of the bank but no signs of the robbers or their escape were found
00:32:03
Speaker
The windows were all inspected and found to be intact. The two exits that they could have used had been covered by patrolling police the entire time. So where had these five robbers disappeared to?
00:32:16
Speaker
to don't know. Did they use Mario mustaches? Like the other? Oh my. That's such a callback.
00:32:28
Speaker
to the Isabella Stewart gardener whatever I thought of that one too when i was doing this case i was like man I love heists I think about that one because then Ressa and my mom went there and then they like got me a a magnet from that place and now I remember it fondly as a case you covered it and a place that we could go to if we actually that I would love to go there, except I'd be like the one i'd be like part of the tour and be like, oh, yeah. So the art's so cool. But like, tell me everything, you know, show me all the secret passageways.
00:33:04
Speaker
my God. Well, if not this year, maybe next year, because like if we just go out east home base at my mom's place and they went to the cryptid museum, which is in Maine. Damn. That's that's a hop.
00:33:18
Speaker
That's a hop from New Brunswick where they share a border. yeah I grew up next door to Stephen King basically so like yeah we could go check out a few of those things that are in the Maritimes in like Boston and then make a you know a tax write up or whatever
00:33:40
Speaker
so donate on Patreon as always And we love you when you do. Yeah. And also we love you for listening. And rate us on Spotify. Spadify.
00:33:52
Speaker
Spadify. Shush. I also can't say Dixlexia, remember?
00:34:03
Speaker
Nope. That was when said on Patreon. And then I was editing it. And I was like, oh, God, that's right. I was like, oh, the foreshadowing of Dix Lexi.
00:34:17
Speaker
It was! was like, that's so funny. Wish for more wishes? no I'll wish for more dicks. Yeah, that was a good episode.
00:34:28
Speaker
So sorry. Alright, back to this. all right This captivating caper. Alliterational.
00:34:40
Speaker
ah li A few days after the robbery, I think the bank had opened again, or maybe they were still investigating. But it was one of the bank employees that notifies the police that they had um found beneath, ah or sorry, that they had found a hole that was hidden underneath a piece of furniture.
00:35:07
Speaker
This is a cartoon. Okay, it is ah The robbers had covered their tracks so they like uncover the hole. um they I'm sure you could smell it but they have poured liters and liters of chlorine ah down this tunnel that they had used.
00:35:27
Speaker
And they had also poured chlorine, like, throughout the bank to destroy all their DNA evidence. And then they had also scattered, like, hair that they had gotten from a local hair salon and just, like, put it everywhere in the bank, like, single little clumps of hair so that ah they were wanting to waste police time, like,
00:35:50
Speaker
DNA testing all of this random hair from a bunch of strangers that had nothing do them. They could have scattered random fingerprints. They would have. Oh, yeah. They would have done anything.
00:36:01
Speaker
Here's some DNA evidence that does not matter. Okay. Yeah. Exactly. um The following weeks, the public is getting more and more captivated as they watch the investigation play out, like, wondering where the criminals disappeared to and them, like,
00:36:18
Speaker
Oh, yeah, they disappeared. And we don't know how they did it. Oh, there's a tunnel. So how'd they get the tunnel? Oh, now there's all this hair and stuff around. It's like, just wild. I keep picturing you say the tunnel, like there's, I think it's Who Framed Roger Rabbit, where the tunnel is like a big cartoon hole.
00:36:35
Speaker
and then like it moves and it's not there anymore. They might have done it in Supernatural too, but like, yeah, it's just like, oh, it's a big hole. Nope, it's just a big cartoon, like black circle.
00:36:48
Speaker
No, this was like under a chair, like an armchair in the basement. it was just like, Damn. Portal to hell. Portal to hell. Right?
00:37:01
Speaker
Okay. So we cut to five weeks after the robbery. ah Police still don't have any leads ah when suddenly they get a phone call from a one woman named Alicia D. Tulo?
00:37:17
Speaker
Tuleo? tuliio ah who's claiming her husband is one of the men who robbed the bank and that she knows about their plans and that she knows the names of the other men involved and she wants to tell the police everything because she's mad at her husband.
00:37:36
Speaker
oh Oh. Yeah. Damn. Right? Foiled because yeah. You got an argument with your wife.
00:37:48
Speaker
Yeah. She's like, we could have been millionaires, but I got mad at you? a Fuck no, we're all going to prison. Damn, bitch. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. She's giving them all up?
00:38:06
Speaker
Okay. Let me get my popcorn. Turns out you just so opened a can. What do you open a can of? I just opened a can of whoop-ass.
00:38:20
Speaker
Turns out that the robbers had been meticulously planning this, ah like, what the heist of the century, they call it, for several years.
00:38:31
Speaker
ah Just like something out of an Ocean's Eleven movie.
00:38:36
Speaker
Ocean's One Hundred Years Later. yeah I think I googled it and it said that the first Oceans movie came out in 2001 and this happened in 2006. but So... Inspired by... Yeah. Somebody somebody contact Steven Soderbergh and find out if he he knows about this case.
00:39:00
Speaker
God, I love those movies. Even though I didn't know that's who the director was. I just enjoy them for enjoying them. Oh no, he's done lots of good stuff.
00:39:13
Speaker
a I'm terrible. I'll know a lot of actors and actresses, but I won't necessarily know the director of a thing at all. Where I'm like, Kelsey will pay attention to that.
00:39:24
Speaker
I'll ask her. She's smart. Yeah. I only know from like when I have somebody that I like, I'll like check out their other movies and then I'll kind of remember what other ones I've seen of theirs, but No, I appreciate that about you. It's like friends of mine that were like, really smart at like art history and stuff. I'm like, I like history.
00:39:46
Speaker
I'm not good at that history. But you are, you know what I mean? It's just like, yeah, impressive.
00:39:55
Speaker
um All right. So getting into the men, the men involved and what their plan actually was. ah So it all starts with a man who is described as eccentric.
00:40:10
Speaker
And he very much is. If you watch the documentary, he's wild. But also, like, captivating. It's crazy. His name is Fernando, um want to say, Arujo? Arujo?
00:40:24
Speaker
ah He's a martial arts expert, like um teaches classes and everything. And also ah cannabis cultivator. He has like a fully operational like ah grow up ah that he's got going.
00:40:42
Speaker
And just know that the minute you said Fernando, that like the ABBA song was totally playing in my head. Isn't that Fernando? Yeah. Fernando. Okay. Okay.
00:40:54
Speaker
I don't know. I don't listen to much ever. There was something in the air that night. The stars were bright. um and Okay. Yep. Anyway. That's where I'm at.
00:41:10
Speaker
ah He was inspired by the robbery that had happened six years ago, and he decided to to tell his longtime friend named Sebastian Garcia Bolster, who is a ah motorcycle mechanic and an engineer, about his plan to rob a bank and vanish through a hole.
00:41:32
Speaker
As if he told him that because he didn't want him to help. He's a mechanic and engineer? Yeah. Right? he's He's getting his oceans team together. Yeah. First I need a first i need an engineer. Yeah, he's some sort of logistics dude. i don't know.
00:41:52
Speaker
ah His friend Bolster agreed that the plan sounded like a pretty smart plan, ah but he didn't take his friend too seriously.
00:42:05
Speaker
ah So that wasn't until a couple years later when Aruho, he comes back and tells him that he's been working on the plan still. and it's more detailed and thought out. And he wants him involved.
00:42:20
Speaker
ah Tells him that it's planned to be a zero casualty robbery ah with a plan to keep the police distracted. but um Right? I love a zero casualty operation.
00:42:35
Speaker
That's a high hopes margin projection you got going there. And their plan is to keep the police distracted so they can make their escape.
00:42:46
Speaker
a Oh, pardon me. ah Utilizing the intricate storm drains that run beneath the streets of that neighborhood specifically, Orujo proposes that they find the drain that would get them nearest the bank, where they're simply going to dig um kind of like at an angle um toward it into the basement.
00:43:13
Speaker
Oh no, that didn't work for the Oak Island guys trying to dig into the treasure vaults.
The Ingenious Escape Plan
00:43:19
Speaker
Yeah, this one will work out, though. This one works out. We'll go in at angle.
00:43:25
Speaker
Oh, the flood tunnels flooded it. Yeah. All right. So with this plan in place, Bolster agrees to properly join the team and his skills as an engineer ah get utilized. Yeah.
00:43:45
Speaker
ah together. I'm not sure who of the two of them knew this gentleman, but they bring in an experience these two men who are experienced bank robbers. There's Louis Mario Vittette Salon. Luigi. Mario.
00:44:01
Speaker
sallon um louis you a the Luigi Mario. His name is Waluigi.
00:44:13
Speaker
ah He becomes the police negotiator. So that's like his designated role. He becomes the man in the gray suit. um And then, yeah, like he knew from the get go, he was going to be outside with the police for six hours negotiating. That was his role.
00:44:29
Speaker
um and yeah he's played by Keanu Reeves in the movie adaptation that does not exist yet no um there is actually a movie adaptation oh but it was it said it was like kind of a dark comedy and I started watching the trailer and I was like oh this is all like way older actors uh than like these people are and they kind of played them like bumbling kind of like idiots and because i was watching a clip that's probably rough if you know the true story that i was like oh no thank you even though i recognized one of the actors i was like oh no thank you oh damn you know my case i was like
00:45:17
Speaker
looked it up and it was a based on a story on a story on a wait oh's nope maybe I'm thinking of no there was something based on my case but it no it was weird the book I was listening to i got one of the books I got from the library recently was only on audiobook and then I looked up again what the fuck am I listening to then it was like oh this story also went on to become a movie called infinite with mark walberg and i was like did it you know like it's called are you because the book's called the reincarnationist papers so that's a different name like first of all you know so i was like oh have i seen that movie i wouldn't know it's probably gone completely out of my head like almost every other movie we watch so many
00:46:14
Speaker
Anyway, I digress. I'm sorry. um Yeah. So that guy becomes the the man in the gray suit. And then they add Ruben Alberto Delator who goes by ah Beto.
00:46:29
Speaker
beto so I'm going to call him Beto. um So he's like kind of the more like the muscle kind of um more physical guy. He's going to help control the hostages, keep everybody calm.
00:46:43
Speaker
uh all that deal um yeah they add um after a little bit of time they add this guy uh julian zalo chavira i'm so sorry as their getaway driver which i haven't gotten to yet i'm sorry but they have a getaway driver Okay, well that's smart. Two more people that I don't have the name for, but they went by the doc, like doctor.
00:47:17
Speaker
um In the documentary, they say that the doc is said to be a lawyer and a sophisticated thief. So this guy is pretty smart.
00:47:30
Speaker
um And they also add the kid. ah who served as additional muscle. um And like, oh okay crowd can control.
00:47:42
Speaker
Okay, so those are our main players. Aruho even posed as an architecture student so that he could call the public works agency to get insider info on how the ground that surrounds the bank would handle tunnels being dug.
00:48:01
Speaker
Oh. He did his team diligence. ah you have That sounded very Ocean's Eleven to me. yeah It sounded very Ocean's Eleven to me. Like, disguise, I'm going to Public Works to get the blueprint on the office. And long con. years.
00:48:21
Speaker
They worked on this for years. No, I'm not kidding. When I was like, oh, we they were giving a willow tree sprout things at work and then it was like well i can plant that can i and i was like if you want to plant something you should probably check it out with your city like you know planning council or whatever well whatever it is and you're just like gotta find out where you're gotta find out where your water lines are and stuff on your property yeah yeah it turns out that thing didn't live long enough
00:48:56
Speaker
from to
00:49:00
Speaker
oh well they give you it they're like it's it's it's just dormant and it's like this little sapling in like a little bed you know your little reusable bag that you're right yeah your little tote bag you're like okay thanks i'll try and grow it now like you don't know what you're doing yeah that's weird yeah i tried yeah ah um Yeah, there's a quote from Arujo that says, ah to make a hole the size of a soda bottle with pickaxes would take one hour.
00:49:32
Speaker
um it was impossible, so we brought in a 220-watt generator so that we could use an electro-pneumatic drill. um Using that electro-pneumatic drill, the tunnel ah that they built and like dug into the bank took about eight months.
00:49:50
Speaker
to complete so wow yeah it's like a prison break they're very patient yeah uh then ah during this time the group purchased an old van like kind of a want to say like almost a like construction like white panel type van um so it was like bigger sized um ah and modified it to have this floor hatch, which would allow them to park directly above a manhole cover that was less than a mile away.
00:50:28
Speaker
And once parked on top, they would simply lift the hatch, remove the manhole cover beneath them, and be able to climb directly in and out of the van and the tunnel system without ever having to walk onto the street.
00:50:42
Speaker
Yes. Yes. that's kind of ruined for me in the heist fashion from the true crime cases where they abduct school children in the school bus like the chowchilla one where they're like oh yeah doing this underground thing and we're just gonna transport you straight from the bus to this underground facility and no one will know you're here and i'm like yeah that's creepy True crime.
00:51:10
Speaker
You've ruined my ability to enjoy a good heist.
00:51:14
Speaker
Remember this one, nobody dies. Nobody dies in this one. No children are abducted? I'm in yeah in. They also, ah part of their escape relied on inflatable boats that they used to navigate the storm and sewer drains.
00:51:33
Speaker
So, it's all coming together. Oh, yeah okay. Okay. So this is how the house heist happens. Are you ready?
00:51:44
Speaker
While the robbery starts, a Ruho is on the main floor with Beto. They're managing the hostages and securing the exits. Selane's the man in the gray suit talks to the man or takes the manager to the basement and forces the one of the security guards to surrender his weapon and leave the building.
00:52:04
Speaker
Afterwards, Selene's and the one hostage, on or sorry, after Selene went outside, he had put on a fake mustache, a yarmulke, and glasses, and began negotiating with police.
00:52:19
Speaker
Like, a fake mustache. And I was like, oh, there is a fake mustache. Just do it. And a yarmulke. so if he's going to put on some fake hair, if you're going to go Jewish, you might as well put the, what is it? The Jerry curls? He did put on, um it looked like a wig, and then the yarmulke, and then he put on, like, reading glasses and a fake mustache. It's honestly hilarious.
00:52:44
Speaker
Yeah. yeah They're curls though, Kelsey. It's just like some of those orthodontics, they have ringlets to rival yours. You can see them getting the fake fake drop curls or something. Drop the curly the curly hair bo routine.
00:53:02
Speaker
um
00:53:05
Speaker
Yeah, so he goes outside with his whoever his hostage is, and he begins negotiating with the police. um During this time, Bolster, um the engineer and motorcycle mechanic, he's in the basement using a special cannon that they had modified to be handheld.
00:53:25
Speaker
To shoot at the safety deposit box locks to open. So he's just shooting a cannon the locks. This is cartoon. It's wild. It's so wild.
00:53:38
Speaker
um Yeah, he had designed this like because he's a fucking engineer um as the quickest and most efficient way to break the locks on the safety deposit boxes as quickly as possible.
00:53:53
Speaker
um He's really using that genius for good. and It's crazy. These people are insane. And I loved it.
00:54:03
Speaker
He says, quote, I didn't stop to see what was inside or if it actually opened or anything. He said, I was just standing there breaking, breaking, breaking all of the locks. And they're just dumping like them into, I think, basically bags.
00:54:17
Speaker
Like they're just breaking the lock, dumping the thing into a bag. They're going to deal with it later. um just whatever is in like that removable i think most of them have like a key inside there that you're supposed to take out like it's got a secure thing inside the safety deposit box doesn't it each uh security yeah or whatever ah for a minute yeah so he's like so many locks i forgot yeah so he's like breaking the outside door and then he's just taking the whole sealed contents of each one um they're not trying to like break into those to see
00:54:52
Speaker
um it's worth taking or not they're just taking whatever's inside yeah i wouldn't want to spend too much yeah time like in the actual vault or whatever itself exactly yeah So they had decided before they went in that they were going to give themselves two hours to do this.
00:55:12
Speaker
And then it was going to be time to go. um So when this two hour mark hit, that's when um Bolster, who's outside, or not Bolster, sorry, ah Beto, who's outside.
00:55:24
Speaker
um think it's Beto, right? Beto, Beto, Beto. No, I get it. Similar names. Selane's. Selane's. He's outside. he knows they have two hours. So that's when he, like, without talking to anybody, is like, hey, we'd like to order some pizza and then we're going to surrender.
00:55:42
Speaker
Because they had pre-decided two hours is all the time we're giving ourselves. so Oh, so now the pizza initiative is enacted. Yeah.
00:55:55
Speaker
Pizza. Operation Pizza is a Yeah. Yeah, non-pizzagate. Yeah. ah They order the pizza. um They bring the pizza inside.
00:56:08
Speaker
They splash the chlorine around, throwing the random hair around as well. Also leaving behind their fate. they I forgot to mention, so they had broken in with guns and everybody had seen guns.
00:56:20
Speaker
ah But they were fake weapons. They never had, other than of course some sort of crazy modified cannon, they didn't really have any weapons with them. It was fake. So they, when they left the bank on and made their escape, they left all their weapons behind to show that they had never been armed.
00:56:39
Speaker
So that kind of won them public favor when the police released that information. Or because they just retreated. Anyway, yeah. That's just my opinion. Yeah. um Yeah.
00:56:50
Speaker
So Beto, he asked the hostages to all turn away, like turn around. He said that he'd be back in a couple minutes, but they made their escape during that time and they left and the hostages were kind of just sitting there. i don't know why the hostages just sat there for three hours, ah but they did.
00:57:08
Speaker
um Yeah, the men escaped through their tunnel that led into the sewer where their boats awaited. ah They had two boats. ah The motor, like there was one of them that was motorized, but they couldn't get the motor to start.
00:57:24
Speaker
So they ended up having to paddle through the sewers to reach ah where their van was parked, which was like 14 blocks away. Oh, maybe a lot of people haven't had to use a motorized thing through a sewer.
00:57:38
Speaker
I know, right? Gordo, stay over there. Aruho, I guess, laid on top of all of the the money or whatever to secure it to keep it from moving or falling or anything.
00:57:55
Speaker
I mean, I would much rather lay on top of money than ah have to paddle through sewer So that sounds great. Yeah, and if the stacks of them are not secured, I'm having like a visual thing where we we renew everyone's like registration, put them in the envelope, and if there's not a big old mailbox to envelopes in at night, we have to put it in the envelope.
00:58:23
Speaker
Well, yeah, like, I'm like, well, we have to put it into this little room that we can lock special special. And then so it's like on top of a cart. And then if it's not in a box, people are like, I'll just pile it up against the wall here. And I'm like, you realize the moment I move this away, because I usually put the cart away at night. I'm like, all these freaking envelopes are just gonna fly over. Yeah. ah Stacks of shit. They'd be falling down, man.
00:58:47
Speaker
and I get it.
00:58:49
Speaker
Um... yeah once Yeah, so they go, they find their spot that's under the van. They got their getaway driver sitting in the van waiting for them. I think they had even blocked it off. on He was wearing like a construction vest.
00:59:04
Speaker
and Nothing really talked about that, but I remember this for some reason. I think it was this case and not a different one. But they had like done so it looked like a construction that they were doing construction work like right in this area. So they wouldn't get asked to move because he was going to be parked there for a while.
00:59:21
Speaker
No, no, are the kind of good, like, disguises that people will kind of ignore you in, I feel like. Yeah, right. sure um Yeah, so they climb into the van from the sewers, and once in the van, they drive to their safe house that they had looked um predetermined.
00:59:40
Speaker
Along the way there, um I guess they must have, by this point, broken into some of the safety deposit boxes because a couple sources said that they left various bank cards from the safety deposit boxes and dropped them throughout the city on their way to that safe house, um hoping that the public would pick them up and use them um and that that would help distract and delay any investigation into them.
01:00:06
Speaker
um Because they'd be like the police would be tracking random people that aren't involved with them in any way. um Once they figured out whose safety deposit boxes were compromised or whatever. Aruho was quoted later saying, Right away, the first thing I wanted to do was turn on the TV and make sure they weren't behind us.
01:00:30
Speaker
um Here we were with the money and we were so far away. Like from them that they didn't even know where to look. Like and they worked to divide the money and all the loot evenly amongst themselves and then kind of went on their separate ways.
01:00:47
Speaker
And that's when you cut to the five weeks later, Beto, guy, he had discovered that his wife of 18 years had taken about $300,000 of the money um and some of the safety deposit box items without talking to him.
01:01:04
Speaker
um They had a huge argument and he demanded that she return what she had taken. And then he ended up storming out of the house, like leaving with the rest of the money. And his wife, Felicia...
01:01:15
Speaker
ah She was really mad and she called the police on him. Storming out? Like what? Okay. Yeah, it was kind of weird. There were most of the sources that actually said that it was because she, um it was so stupid.
01:01:35
Speaker
So most of the stuff I read said that Beto and his mistress got pulled over. Um, at a traffic stop or something, and then they got arrested, and it was when his wife found out that he was planning a trip with his mistress that she got mad at him, and that's when she, like, told the police everything.
01:01:58
Speaker
But I found a source that was like one of their lawyers or something that literally said, or the prosecutor's lawyer or something in the like trial that happens later on that was like, nah, it was because of the money. There was nothing about an affair.
01:02:15
Speaker
so yeah, that was more. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, i feel like that's the one that couple knows. Yeah. Yeah, he did say it kind of gets blamed on an affair a lot, but he...
01:02:29
Speaker
that's not his understanding of what happened. um So as this is going down, they kind of get word that Belito or Beto's wife is like going to turn them in Selane's, the Guy in the gray suit, he recalls ah the other guy mentioned the doc calling him and frantically saying that Deltor's wife is going to turn us all in soon.
01:02:57
Speaker
And she's asking for us to each pay her $300,000. And if we won't, she's going to give us up. Saline then replies to the doc that she can go fuck herself and then I'm not giving her a thing and let Beto fix all of this with her and leave me out of it.
01:03:15
Speaker
Well, you can see how this turns out. They all get arrested. yeah all yeah yeah They all get turned in. Yeah, like, what are you doing? She's just one person, like, going after all these, like, guys? I don't know.
01:03:31
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was like, because she remembered, she knew who they were because they had been partially planning it in the couple's garage, I guess. So she's like, oh, yeah, I know all these guys, they they planned the heist in the garage and I overheard some of it.
01:03:48
Speaker
So, yeah. i mean But then your evidence is the evidence that makes you culpable, too. like Yeah, exactly. You were there. Yeah. Oh my god.
01:04:01
Speaker
I don't know why. So this was in 2006, but it wasn't until 2010 that they were had their sentences that happened. So Beto was sentenced to 15 years.
01:04:15
Speaker
Aruho, the mastermind behind it all, was given 14
01:04:20
Speaker
the Zalo Chiveria oh my god I'm so sorry he got 10 years this is the hardest it's so many repeated letters I have a lot names even in Spanish and stuff general yeah Bolster got 9 years Selene he received 14 years just kidding oh this is spelled so different oh no i think there's like a famous latina selena singer nope nope now i'm gonna sound like a dick selene selene yeah she might be also yeah she was killed by a super fan wasn't she
01:05:09
Speaker
Oh, probably, yeah. Yeah. I hear Selene, and I think it's spelled like Selene Dion, because it's from sort of ingrained East Coast Canadian pride there's something. I don't know. no
01:05:27
Speaker
um Yeah, so he received 14 years, but that wasn't just for the robbery, but they also um threw in some miscellaneous crimes that he had been connected to previously so he kind of got like a group trial um yeah so they charged him with some of his prior stuff that they hadn't located him for before um interestingly though right two for one special we're gonna okay ah Interestingly, the the doc and the kid, um the reason why I haven't mentioned their names is they were never identified um by the wife. Nobody ever turned them in and they were never caught.
01:06:12
Speaker
So we don't know who they are.
Aftermath and Legacy of the Heist
01:06:15
Speaker
um presumably they got away with their cut because it was split evenly so hurrah and we know they're I love that I want to see the I want to like do the Lucille Bluth Good for her. Good for her. Yeah.
01:06:36
Speaker
I'm like, wait, I can be happy for her. Right. Right. Okay. Yeah. Good for her. Yeah. So, um, you might be thinking ah about like what happened with Alicia, the wife, um,
01:06:53
Speaker
Doesn't sound like she ever got arrested or charged with anything. um She's also rarely spoken about her involvement in like the men's arrests. But in 2015, she did do an interview and she said that she intended to only hurt her husband Beto um um in like turning them in. But...
01:07:15
Speaker
um So she apologized for and asked for forgiveness of like the other men involved um and said it wasn't really about them and that she was sorry that um they ended up getting arrested too. And that, I mean, she probably was pressured to name the other ones.
01:07:33
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She only wants to take her husband down, maybe. Yeah. um It's kind of interesting how the rest of this plays out, because none of the men ended up ever serving their full sentences and are now all free from jail.
01:07:49
Speaker
They've served their time. Oh, boo.
01:07:55
Speaker
our We'll see. Give it to me straight. I still gotta pee.
01:08:02
Speaker
the The heist is seen as a modern day Robin Hood saga. No, really? The group of men have been immortalized as quote unquote quirky ah thieves who have inspired not just movies and TV shows, um like commonly suggested that ah money heist or La Casa de Papel.
01:08:27
Speaker
Oh, yeah. um but they've inspired movies like the other one i talked about that look terrible um but they've also inspired other criminals in twenty twenty four there was this ah argentinian police managed to foil what could have been one of the largest money heights in the country's recent history after they uncovered a 240-yard tunnel that had led to vault of one of the banks in Argentina.
01:08:57
Speaker
So that was kind of like inspired by it. So that wouldn't have been good, but that was foiled before. Yeah. Yeah. um The men who robbed the Banco Rio in 2006 are all free, actually, to monetize on their master plan.
01:09:18
Speaker
And in 2022, they starred in that Netflix documentary I watched. So it stars all of them. They, from start to finish, are telling their...
01:09:29
Speaker
their side of everything that went down in explicit detail with pictures and original blueprints and all it's wild and they're essentially bragging the entire time is it still on netflix here it's still on netflix uh it's called know you said you hadn't watched it in a while yeah it's called uh bank robbers the last great heist um And it's so funny. It's honestly hilarious because they're basically like, and this is how we did it.
01:10:01
Speaker
And it's, and then it cuts to fe police, I think sometimes. And you know how a lot of it's police interviews and stuff. But it's just hilarious to watch the criminals be like, oh, yeah, we thought of that shit.
01:10:12
Speaker
Like, And it worked. Yeah, you don't usually get that angle because usually they have to be like... it's hilarious. We think these guys got away from Alcatraz, but we don't know because we haven't you know and caught them to talk to them. Yeah, exactly.
01:10:26
Speaker
These guys are literally like, yeah, we went to prison. We went to jail. We prayed for it. They can't they can't charge us with anything more. ah So yeah, here's here's all the details. It's wild.
01:10:37
Speaker
um Yeah, they share their personal personal accounts of how their plans unfolded. And then i just wanted to finish it off in one of the articles where Arujo, the guy that ah the master plan guy, um says that he believes their story has a happy ending.
01:10:56
Speaker
um He said, quote, everyone who played a role in this story won. prosecutors advanced their careers police officers became detectives afterwards and the judges were recognized the victims insurance got them more than they ah got them more than they had so like nobody lost like nobody died everybody advanced in their careers we went to prison and got out like who who lost um Yeah, and you can tell by how the criminals talk about it, they don't feel like they lost and go into prison even for it. They seem pretty content, which I think is hilarious.
01:11:36
Speaker
Oh, yeah. No, I'm totally fine with that. Right? I was just like, yeah, damn. Yeah. Yeah. go Go watch the documentary. It's a very interesting take. You won't find too many of them like it. Yeah.
01:11:55
Speaker
Alright, that was moving amazing. I just want to take a quick break and then I'll get into some other very different but also from Argentina stuff.
01:12:08
Speaker
Yeah. But, you know, somewhat the same. We'll see. We'll be right back.
01:12:47
Speaker
I'm Ted. I'm JJ. And we're here to tell you about our show, Conspiring to Argue. I like it. That is not relevant. What do we do on the show? Well, at our on our podcast, what we do is take conspiracy theories and either Ted or myself will argue about if the conspiracy is real or not.
01:13:05
Speaker
Yeah, and sometimes sometimes the the conspiracies are silly. Sometimes they're you know in the pantheon of the greatest conspiracies of all time. It's a mixed bag. Sometimes they're about aliens.
01:13:19
Speaker
So check us out wherever you listen to podcasts. Sometimes they're about murder.
01:13:42
Speaker
Welcome back to part two, where we have already kicked Gordo out, so it should be smooth sailing. No, he's right here. He's not kicked out. This is him.
01:13:53
Speaker
He's here. Well, he is being quiet, and and my dog is being kicked outside, so... One of our pets has been evicted. Or at least down an animal, yeah.
01:14:06
Speaker
Yeah. Ugh. Also, my notes got a little waterlogged as I ran out to the car amidst the April showers we experienced this afternoon.
01:14:18
Speaker
I'm a little crunched up. so It's okay. Mine had so many typos, but not typos that would have been underlined that I could have fixed.
01:14:30
Speaker
Stuff that had apparently changed, or I just typed completely wrong. so I'm trying to read and I go, well, that's not what that word was supposed to be at all.
01:14:40
Speaker
what's the worst or like the best is when it's like a typo and a quote and you're like I don't care didn't write that yeah you know yeah um okay so apologies for probably bad pronunciation but this is the case of Maria Marta Garcia Belsunse Belsunse
01:15:10
Speaker
but I don't know. um I hadn't heard of it, though. So... No, I just ran across the name because you had picked your case before I picked mine. And it, like, came up one of the first couple ones. So I honestly thought there would be little bit more information on it. But it was bit harder to find, thought.
01:15:35
Speaker
I did just know to, like, stay away from it because you would be covering it. That's why I was like... after looked through and, like, a bunch of ones were coming up, I was like, I'm gonna try a robbery.
01:15:46
Speaker
was like, ooh. Yeah. Yeah, so the top three that comes up, I felt like were a serial killer, and, like, two cases, i think, that both had a Maria in the name, so it was little confusing.
01:16:01
Speaker
I was like, I'm gonna not click on either of these. know, I'm like, wait, i have to make sure I tell her which one it is. Yeah, it's crazy, but... Yeah, we we deal with a lot of that here too. I find where there's similar names and stuff. but Oh my gosh.
01:16:17
Speaker
You'd think of it being like one of the biggest cases. like I'm just mad because they said there was a Netflix doc about mine and I could not find it on the Canadian Netflix. I was pissed.
01:16:32
Speaker
That's weird because normally if it's produced by Netflix like they would own all the licensing to have it in all the my countries I guess I don't know like there's definitely been things where I'm like oh i think this should be on Netflix and then I look it up and I can't find it so I just put it in that category I guess but I was just like I don't know it seemed like yeah a couple popular cases and then you're getting it for all my stupid sources and I'm like but I can't watch it but I could eventually find like ah like one podcast maybe covered
01:17:09
Speaker
yeah that could watch okay and i'm like damn it you know it's bad when there's only like one or two podcasts that you can look at for a case too don't know yeah sometimes you can find those documentaries on youtube as well yeah i could have looked yeah yeah that's true oh well maybe um, some of our listeners can let us know if they've seen it.
01:17:39
Speaker
Yeah. In a polite, gentle, and loving way. No. Um, so it's, yeah, so Maria Marta Garcia Belsense.
01:17:53
Speaker
um basically, I usually probably call her Maria Marta for simplicity. But her husband, uh, was Carlos, uh,
01:18:05
Speaker
whoop that's another long one caras gosa sosa um and he was out of their apartment that day that she was found he was at his in-laws watching a football game relaxing so okay very uh i don't know if that means soccer actually now that i think about it because i'm like yeah south america yeah Anyway, they're they're into it. They're watching the sports game.
01:18:37
Speaker
And...
01:18:40
Speaker
From the the the ball game from the sports team with the points or the goals...
01:18:49
Speaker
I'm channeling Mitchell from Modern Family. and know enjoy a sports game. Go watch Star War. no
01:18:59
Speaker
And they they love football there. yeah i It's a huge deal. like We think our viewership of freaking um like the Super Bowl is big, but that's like Tuesday night.
01:19:18
Speaker
football or soccer game for like Argentina, Brazil, Europe's also huge into soccer. Like it's yeah, it's wild.
01:19:31
Speaker
I know. I don't get it, but I get it. Sometimes Pat goes crazy for his hockey like tonight when he couldn't get the channel on. And I'm like, oh, you're a stereotypical Canadian trying to watch your hockey now.
01:19:46
Speaker
Oh.
01:19:51
Speaker
but Anyway, fuck Rogers Network. So... yeah
01:19:58
Speaker
um Yes, this day, ah the football day in question, a good old Sunday or whatever, s Carlos Caracosa or however you say his last name was at his in-laws watching football and it's an October day in 2002. I'm sure it's just lovely out.
01:20:19
Speaker
Um... His wife was at home and was not interested in watching the game. She had other stuff to do ah tell ya. Yeah. So he goes to watch it with her parents?
01:20:32
Speaker
I find that funny. Yeah. ah Her parents um or like her um and from what other things said later on like maybe her sister.
01:20:44
Speaker
So like maybe his sister-in-law. Yeah. I love it. I love the whole, like, close family thing. Yeah, was like, that's kind of nice. yeah Oh, yeah, yeah.
01:20:55
Speaker
Like, sometimes I envy you guys being able to have your, like, family dinners and stuff, because we're, like, we're kind of, my family's spread a little across Canada, so it can be... My mom will be like, I've got my three children together!
01:21:07
Speaker
Take a picture! You know what i mean? Like, not really, but, like... Yeah. don't always get together. I like it. It's cute. Um... So yeah, Maria was at home at the time. She was a sociologist known for her work with activist groups and had been married to Carlos at this point for over 30 years.
01:21:29
Speaker
Oh, well. I know. I had mistakenly put 19 years, but that's because she was just 19 when she got married. Which, like, okay sometimes that happens. You meet them when you're young and you've already had a little bit of experience. I get it.
01:21:49
Speaker
But, yeah, no, she, they got married when she was 19, so I think he might have been, like, 20 or 20-something. um they But they lived in a gated community in this place called Pilar in Buenos Aires, or however you properly pronounce that.
01:22:07
Speaker
um And, like, it's a you know, gated community. So it's quite a richy rich kind of secure place. It's called the Carmel Country Club. Oh, okay.
01:22:19
Speaker
So that's why if any of you can watch it, the Netflix documentary is called Carmel Who Killed Maria Marta? And it came out in 2020. Oh, that's super recent. That's so weird. Oh, I know.
01:22:34
Speaker
But there's also been a recent developments. Oh, damn. Yeah, that's interesting Yeah, exactly. I'm like kind of excited to cover this one, I guess, because i there's not many podcasts about it from what I could find and and stuff.
01:22:52
Speaker
Yeah. But so, yeah unfortunately the night this all happened, Maria was not answering her phone um and the doorman had been trying to buzz in her um her masseuse that evening.
01:23:10
Speaker
so they're in the gated community. she's supposed to have a massage from her like weekly appointment. and Damn. Sounds nice. and I know.
01:23:21
Speaker
It might make her sound a little privileged, but fuck man, if you can do it, why not? Yeah. Mm-hmm. So it was supposed to have happened around 7 p.m., and Beatrice, her masseuse, was like kind of still waiting around the...
01:23:39
Speaker
front part, like trying to get in or at least concerned when her husband, um, Carlos got home and he went past the doorman and entered the apartment to see what was going on.
01:23:54
Speaker
So yeah, like then he, didn't find her in the entryway or anything like that, the living room, but he did find her in the bathroom. um In a scene where she's fully dressed by the bathtub, but like unconscious and reminded me of a recent the scene we discussed on Patreon where they had the little dioramas of all the yeah suspicious death scenes.
01:24:24
Speaker
And because that one lady was... Dressed, head under to the faucet. Yeah, with the faucet going. yeah Like waterboard waterboarding style. Yeah, bathtub was not plugged. It wasn't like she drowned in the bathtub from bathtub being plugged. And that one, it was like someone had put her face like upturned under the faucet or something. like It's just like, there's a lot to be said for the context and how you find people in these ones. And that's what yeah that whole segment was about, was how they use those little
01:24:56
Speaker
dioramas to teach people obviously but I just it really recalled that to me because she had her clothes on and like but was still found um in this case I think it was plugged the bathtub there was a lot of water pooled around um so it might have seemed like she'd been like accidentally drowned but there was a lot of blood as well and if she was supposed to have a massage why would she have be like having a bath exactly that's true too yeah like kind of seems normal but not um so that's kind of the setup and then who she was a little bit more was just how like she was born April 24th in 1952 to an upper class family
01:25:50
Speaker
um for From what I could find, again, some sources sometimes differ and that's so annoying, but um her dad, I guess, was named Adolfo Garcia Belsensei and they kept saying he was a well-known jurist.
01:26:06
Speaker
So and I don't know why you would be well-known for being like on a jury, but every source said he was a well-known jurist.
01:26:20
Speaker
that mean something different that we don't know about he like to be the people's juror decision on a jury and not like i did not look into it further because i was already having a hard enough time piecing together this case to be perfectly honest with you but like i don't know it's a little weird to me too yeah um he's really good at being a jury of your peers um Yeah, maybe he's being called to jury duty twice. or served on, like, a big case. like
01:26:58
Speaker
Like, the equivalent of the O.J. Simpson trial. Like, I don't know. They call... Like, I feel like they called this one the crime of the century. Which was, like, when you... Like, there's just the cases. Like, you said something about that, and I just, like, oh, do they call everything the something of the century? Mine was the, yeah, the heist of the century.
01:27:16
Speaker
yeah Like, I felt like this one they called the crime of the century at least once. I think that's what that movie, the the movie or whatever it was called, the heist of the century. So I looked up the trailer on YouTube and was like, oh this does not look good.
01:27:33
Speaker
Oh, okay. Was it like subtitles and like a bunch of unknown actors and stuff? That was the one that was like older actors and it was like a dark comic kind of playing them off as idiots.
01:27:46
Speaker
And I was like, oh, this does not look good. You're right, yeah. I was like, they weren't. They were like fucking engineers and shit. Like, why are you pretending they're idiots? Who's to say, man? Who's to say?
01:28:02
Speaker
oh So. oh yeah. So they lived in the gay community. Yes. Privilege. She was supposed to have her massage appointment. I guess that's where we got to. Right.
01:28:19
Speaker
Yeah. um And then her husband got home but realized that, yeah, she hadn't been answering anything. Went to the bathroom and found her fully dressed.
01:28:31
Speaker
And unfortunately it did seem to be too late for Maria at this time. They... Whether or not they had like 911 or something that direct was unclear to me. But ah eventually or at least a doctor or two arrived. As far as I know. Who did pronounce her dead unfortunately.
01:28:52
Speaker
um no surprise to us in this setting though. But... Like, they were like, oh, okay, so is this just, you know, a tragic accident? Because maybe she hit her head on the faucet. Yeah.
01:29:07
Speaker
Yeah, running her bath or whatever.
01:29:12
Speaker
But, yeah, there was some doubt for sure. um sorry I guess... I forgot we got to the well-known jurist part about the parents.
01:29:28
Speaker
All we know about her mother was her name, Luz Maria Blanca Luisa Gallup. We don't know if she's a well-known jurist or not, because who cares about women, right?
01:29:41
Speaker
oh no the land is getting heated all salty no but it's cool to know that this maria like had some good causes that she devoted her adult life to her career in social causes she worked with the missing children argentina and Maybe it was like a senior executive on that board.
01:30:09
Speaker
She was up there. ah Nice, nice. Yeah, and something like, I don't know, maybe I'm supposed to know what an NGO is, but something called the NGO Red Social.
01:30:22
Speaker
So there's like maybe more like a, I don't know what's called, like a non-profit thing or something. Maybe. Hopefully. Hopefully.
01:30:32
Speaker
Because I think she had money from her family. So who knows. But I do know she kind of married Carlos a little bit early. She was about 19. I think he was a few years older.
01:30:44
Speaker
But they did to have a great relationship. Although they had no kids. And he was working as a stockbroker. Both got nice jobs. But they seem to.
01:30:55
Speaker
yeah mean Sounds like she's still. Working for good causes. Which is nice. I know, like, it's the kind of people that you're always like, why are they always in true crime things?
01:31:10
Speaker
Not for killing people. No, it kind of reminds me, I can't remember what country it was, but it was one of our other international ones, I'm sure. And it was that, um like...
01:31:24
Speaker
ah civil rights lawyer um that i talked about that got killed in her office um and they said it looks like a stage or maybe yeah um and they said it looked like a suicide or something but they're like well this is bizarre that's what i'm kind of feeling with your case right now i'm like yeah no like people working for good causes and just trying to help people out and then but getting put down by corrupt systems yes i feel like you're exactly on the right track for what i think this one is too yes gordo agrees if you heard him you said yeah okay i kind of did and then i wasn't sure you said yeah gordo went meow can you say yeah
01:32:24
Speaker
Can you say yeah, Gordo? They did do a Simpsons. Oh. I didn't think you were going to do There was a Simpsons intro the other day because they always do the intro different with the couch gag.
01:32:38
Speaker
and this one time it was it was the Bob Berger's couch gag. And they were like, now Homer's inside the... the restaurant and he's running around he doesn't know what to do yeah they did that side and I was like I was like I've heard of this Bob's Burgers yeah they have a Bob's Burgers episode that has a Simpsons reference in it yeah I love a good yeah reference they did one too where Futurama made a little cameo
01:33:15
Speaker
Anyway, sorry, I'm digressing. I have a Gordo and he like laid down and it moved the mic away from me. So if I sound farther away, it's because Gordo is in between me and the mic.
01:33:31
Speaker
Like, oh, this looks like a good, these two inches. Yeah, that looks like a good place for me to go.
01:33:39
Speaker
no i think you're good. I think you sound good. I just ripped my earring apart. Okay. Oh, no.
01:33:49
Speaker
Gordo's also purring, so that's going to be our background sound for the rest of the...
01:33:57
Speaker
Okay, the rest of this is a bit chaotic. From my research, I had some trouble. Oh, no. With some timelines. But, you know.
01:34:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, happens. I think I got the gist of it. That's
Maria Marta's Death and Initial Reactions
01:34:15
Speaker
like mine. I'm like, I didn't know when to come in with all the crazy details of what was actually happening when I'm trying to talk about like what the police are seeing. So I'm like, oh, maybe I should do it all in order of what actually happened because that's what I normally do. And I was like, but that ruins the surprise.
01:34:31
Speaker
just like I like a good review. And yeah, then you're adding to the timeline that you're trying to make in your head because not everybody has a timeline. Oh, drives me crazy.
01:34:43
Speaker
um So I believe ah what makes it so chaotic is the amount of people that come over after Maria Marta is found dead in the tub.
01:34:57
Speaker
Or at least they, you know, they, yeah, she's dead. They find out like, yeah, whatever happened, head wound for whatever reason, like she's definitely dead, unfortunately.
01:35:10
Speaker
um I'm just like, ah so like two doctors end up on the scene. um, Maria's half-brother John is there.
01:35:21
Speaker
There's a Guillermo who's a relative. You know when they're like calling all the family members before they call the doctor? You're like, just call the doctor! Like, I don't know if they yeah had 911 exactly, but like eventually, yeah, doctors are on the scene.
01:35:37
Speaker
But also because he was there and one of the first two people that were there was Carlos and the masseuse that was supposed to be there to see Maria, Beatrice, and she's encouraged by one of the doctors to like clean up some of the bloody water and stuff.
01:35:54
Speaker
And then, Oh my God, don't do that. Don't touch anything. don't even know what to say to you. Mop it up. john malla You're a masseuse.
01:36:06
Speaker
Why are you cleaning? but the doctor is telling her and he's also cleaning Maria's face and saying that, ah she's dead and it's like what can we do it was an accident you know that's kind of the you can investigate it's been five seconds you know because we're talking about it on true crime podcast but yes it's very sketch you're not wrong yeah yeah I don't know that's why I feel like and bad and I wished I could have watched I wished I could have watched the documentary
01:36:44
Speaker
Because the best i could do was listen to the one podcast that I don't usually listen to apparently was able to listen to the documentary. Anyway. oh
01:36:57
Speaker
So there was some definite, like, disturbance, I would say, of the crime scene afterwards because of the cleaning and stuff. Yeah. um And then also that they kind of like he was just with some of her in-laws, right? But then he so he calls some of their other family to come over and it's kind of like they have almost like an impromptu vigil or a wake for her. Like, oh, she's dead now. Let's all like.
01:37:25
Speaker
Well, she's still in the bathtub. It's very quick. I will not lie to you. It seems like they're all like very quick about this.
01:37:38
Speaker
Oh my god. don't know. and know you get the vigil thing when you're like practicing Jewish and you cover your mirrors and you sit Shiva for like a week and you guys don't do much and Apparently you're not even going to have sex. But I don't know. This seemed like an impromptu.
01:37:59
Speaker
Let's find out what's going on. And then there was some business where they seemed like they really wanted to have the funeral fast and tried to obtain a death certificate the very night that she expired. um But was Sunday.
01:38:17
Speaker
Yeah. That's crazy. i know It's... It does seem weird because it does seem like fast. And they're, like, trying to get it done on a Sunday where there has been an autopsy or a medical damage report.
Investigation into Maria Marta's Death
01:38:36
Speaker
And so they drive, like, to the bigger city. Yeah. I'd be like, what? I know. i get it. It's just... It's not a good look.
01:38:47
Speaker
um
01:38:50
Speaker
But it's weird, too, right? Because he was out with the in-laws and... He just knocked over the mic, but I caught it midair before it fell. hear the thunk.
01:39:03
Speaker
Just stood up and the mic went, whoop! Buddy, there's not enough room for you to be like this. I'm sorry you don't want to hear the rest of this, Gordo.
01:39:17
Speaker
You little bugger. Trying to hold you down. It's not moving.
01:39:29
Speaker
Oh yeah, so they were able to obtain a death certificate eventually in the bigger city nearby. think it's Buenos Aires, but I'm not sure. It's the city.
01:39:43
Speaker
They're in a smaller town and drive into the city. yeah One of Maria's brothers, Horacio Garcia Belsens, was a journalist and called up a, I believe, lawyer friend They basically refer to him as Diego, mostly, from anything that could find him.
01:40:05
Speaker
But he he was investigating, so I was like, is he a lawyer? I'm not too officially sure, but they... Yeah, he said he'd look into the death form. He was like, yeah, I would go ahead and like bury her. You guys are probably fine, but like I will investigate and ask around from...
01:40:29
Speaker
like who was there and weird i know i know is a little weird buddy literally just caught the mic again okay you gotta go over there what are you doing
01:40:47
Speaker
it's also just hair flying everywhere it's on my face he looking at you just like fenrir does when he was in like What? I'm in cuddle mode. Why can't you cuddle me? Yeah.
01:41:09
Speaker
Why? Why? My notes got all covered in rainwater, by the way.
01:41:18
Speaker
and um
01:41:23
Speaker
Oh yeah, they have a lot of siblings, which gets a little confusing. But also, clarifying, when I found a source that was like, the people from this documentary laid out, and I was like, thank Sometimes I'm not sure the that's nice. Yeah, they have another sister named Maria Laura, who doesn't feature much in the story.
01:41:46
Speaker
um But Maria Marta also has two more half-siblings, John Hertig and Irene Hertig. And think their dad was named Dino and their mom had his mom had an affair with him or something.
01:42:02
Speaker
But Irene's is the in-laws house where Carlos was watching the football. So he's at her half sister's house. Oh, okay.
01:42:15
Speaker
Yeah. So he's over there watching some football. Assuming with the half sister and the half-brother or the whoever likes the football in the family right like i'm sure it's pretty normal have a watch party sunday night football yeah um pat's literally watching hockey downstairs after he finally got rogers to cooperate with him it's a whole nother kettle of fish um so also the other half-brother john plays a role in the evidence gathering after the fact
01:42:52
Speaker
Which is a weird detail where he says that he happens upon something he called a It's a Spanish word, so a putito? um he called it, which I guess means like a thingy.
01:43:08
Speaker
thingy? He found a little thingy, a bit of metal, apparently somewhere under Maria's body. and then the worst problem is that he like flushed it down the toilet, so...
01:43:23
Speaker
Why? don't know. Kelsey, I don't know with you. who's sorry This one is I feel like I have half the story, honestly. I'm like, I found a podcast that listened to the documentary. I'm like, I found a few sources. But I accidentally flushed the podcast down the toilet.
01:43:45
Speaker
I hope these facts are true to you, but yeah, they're they've been flushed down the toilet and recurgitated. Oh my I found something. I'm looking around. I think her death might be suspicious. Oh, here's a piece of metal. Let me put it in the toilet and flush down real quick.
01:44:03
Speaker
Yeah, why? Why? I have no answer for you. but by refresh something Yes, buddy. Why are they flushing the toilet?
01:44:12
Speaker
We have more information on what that was. Why did you do that? so A thingy?
01:44:21
Speaker
Oh, by the way, I can't remember the doctor's names who were there. Again, podcast and then trying to hear the names. But there was a Dr. Biasi that was there.
01:44:33
Speaker
So, and he had said something to the investigator, Diego, about the death. He said it was violent and dubious, as he describes it. And he said she had holes in her skull.
01:44:47
Speaker
So she did not. She had what, sorry? She had a three holes in her skull, he said. so um And at this point, the investigator is like, it's been two weeks since Marisa's death. Where is the death certificate that might tell me some actual information?
01:45:08
Speaker
yeah but yes he was like where's this fucking death certificate i was he's getting all this conflicting information but it doesn't actually help that much because it says that maria died of a heart attack and that it happened in the city which again i believe was like the largest city they had to drive through near but nearby like buenos aires or something oh so it's like the wrong place Right. Like, you're you're on the outskirts of the city. You don't live in the city anymore. But when you had to go in to get it, you went to the city. So they said, yeah, she died here. Yeah, it's crazy. We don't know.
01:45:48
Speaker
Yeah, no, they're like, let's talk to everyone who was here before and after this crazy death. um I guess. And...
01:46:00
Speaker
That includes the people that were there. I believe everything I said said like, or like said two doctors. So I don't know. I'm going to say the doctors. There was the masseuse, the brother, the brother-in-law and the husband, Carlos. So it's like full on like Agatha Christie here with the. Yeah. It's Clue.
01:46:21
Speaker
Who did it? is. And now that foul pre play is indicated, they are starting to suspect the family. And so, of course, they start with the husband, as is usual. um Yeah.
01:46:34
Speaker
But yeah, and I'm just going to go ahead and say straight out that I'm confused still by the timeline.
01:46:42
Speaker
But... Like, at this point, they decide it's they've got to exhume the body and get a real cause of
Autopsy and Cover-Up Revelations
01:46:50
Speaker
death. Because they didn't really order an autopsy before, but at least they didn't cremate her, which was good.
01:46:57
Speaker
But somebody just declared it a heart attack. That's right. Because remember they're like, yeah, maybe, but you should look into this Diego, this, you know, family friend. I'm still not exactly sure what his um position is.
01:47:12
Speaker
And then it's like, oh, but wait, like, yeah, i don't know. Like, wild.
01:47:21
Speaker
Sorry, forgot where was going with that. um
01:47:26
Speaker
But yeah, but when they actually exhume the body, they get proper cause of death. They are able to see, um you know, most sources say anyway, there are five bullet holes in her head.
01:47:39
Speaker
Five? you So probably not a heart attack or she hit her head the faucet. Yeah. she accidentally what what are the chances she accidentally slipped and fell in her bathroom and landed on five bullets that were perfectly standing upright in the bathroom with enough force us to sink them into her skull damn you mean that doesn't just happen but and doesn't just happen what are the chances oh man
01:48:16
Speaker
If police didn't know what to look for for these crazy things, like, it's good they had ah those dioramas. don't know. Okay, so it gets crazier.
01:48:28
Speaker
um There's some sort of substance they liken to superglue found in and around the wounds on her head. And they believe this to be some sort of attempt to cover up the wounds or the murder, basically.
01:48:47
Speaker
Oh, like they tried to glue them closed or something? expect that's kind of what they must believe or are leaning towards. um Interesting.
01:48:59
Speaker
yeah I've never heard that one before. know. like the really only other thing I could find to like explain that part was how if she had, like, sort of missionary-type trips in different places,
01:49:15
Speaker
you know, countries that she ah may have used different like lice shampoos and stuff when she got back and it might have been found in the wounds. I don't know.
01:49:28
Speaker
just like Weird. Very ah flimsy if it's evidence, you know, i guess, but They thought it was some sort of attempt to cover up.
01:49:39
Speaker
But despite this lack of physical evidence, in my opinion, Carlos was put on trial for his wife's murder. um What? Yep. He was with the in-laws.
01:49:51
Speaker
He was with, yeah, like at least a sister-in-law, I think. And then why could they not?
01:50:01
Speaker
But then why would, if she...
01:50:06
Speaker
I'm so confused. Are they saying he did it and then he went to go watch the game? um Well, you know, there was a lot of belief that there was a cover-up, so it might have had to do with that, that they thought the family would have been in on it maybe and help to collude with him to cover up something interesting because i was like you could corroborate with the doorman with the masseuse and they're like yeah of her not answering the door like how long she wasn't answering the door for yeah no and then yeah
01:50:52
Speaker
Yeah, so you would think his alibi would totally check out. He's with her family members. Like, in my opinion, it's very solid. Yeah, not even his, like, yeah his side of the family, but, like, her side.
Legal Battles and Media Influence
01:51:07
Speaker
I assumed it was, like, her parents, but when I looked, when something said further, it was her, you know, sister or whatever. So I'm not too sure. I know the, the trials just get ready.
01:51:20
Speaker
i don't know. I'm not going to have a lot of answers. It's going to have some twists, unfortunately. um to do Oh yeah.
01:51:32
Speaker
A lot of things said the only real leads the investigators had to pursue were that it was someone she knew very well. So obviously it's a gated community that they have to get into.
01:51:44
Speaker
it was a failed robbery or her family's possible ties to the Juarez cartel. Because, you know, South American. why Why wouldn't we pretend they have ties the cartel? No, I don't know.
01:51:59
Speaker
But, yeah. I don't really know what the... That comes up a few times, but I don't see any solid evidence, you know? Oh, okay.
01:52:09
Speaker
Um, said Carlos, if Carlos's defensive team or defense team tried to bring up other suspects, like a mystery woman seen near the residence at the time of the murder, um, as well as like the, were other witnesses that saw people hanging around.
01:52:28
Speaker
Um, But, okay, let's see. Let's see. Although he is not convicted of the murder at this time, he and the other men present that night were charged with covering up the crime.
01:52:40
Speaker
And Carlos was found guilty of this alleged cover-up on July 11, 2007. two thousand seven So, first I thought he got convicted of her murder. But then I was like, no. It says he got convicted of the cover-up.
01:52:55
Speaker
Of her murder. Like, tampering with evidence or something? Basically, yeah. Yeah, because it's not like conspiracy to commit murder. it's Yeah, it's after the fact. Yeah, okay.
01:53:07
Speaker
They just kept saying cover-up a lot, to be honest with you. Um... So... and What do I know? This was happening. Literally, I'm like July 11, 2007. I was like, I was about to give birth.
01:53:20
Speaker
I did not look into it. You know what I mean? I'm like, now that I'm looking back at something, I'm like, wow. um Not that there would have anything in the news, in our news about it at the time, I don't think. It would have been probably just like, this is not white enough for us to care about. You know our news Yeah.
01:53:42
Speaker
but yeah we were still extremely local news orientated especially even before 2010 like well and sometimes just like doing cases and the podcast makes me feel ah little bit more worldly because i'm like learn something that happens somewhere else you're like oh yeah yeah I've been in that experience.
01:54:09
Speaker
But yeah, this case, sorry, it's just crazy up and down. blah blah, blah. Like, they... Okay, so he gets... Carlos gets found guilty of the conspiracy or cover-up or whatever, which they immediately appealed the verdict, and I believe he was out on bail, so I don't think he was spending... know he spent some jail time, but I don't know if it was now.
01:54:36
Speaker
um probably while he filed for appeal and stuff yeah like it did say he spent five years in jail at one point so I don't know if that was maybe now because at first I was like I thought he got it for the murder but then I looked at different sources and blah blah and they were like no it was actually the conspiracy or the cover up so confusing just gonna say But eventually released on bail, he goes through two years of appeals processes.
01:55:10
Speaker
So he's free. And then in an unprecedented move, the appeals court decides to overturn their original verdict. Excuse me.
01:55:24
Speaker
Which was completely not something they're usually allowed to do, you know, because they're it's not in court. But... They were like, just kidding, guilty of both murder and cover up. So now life in prison for you.
01:55:38
Speaker
We decided. Oh my god. What? Yeah, apparently it was the first time the appeals court had ever been like, yeah, by the way, no.
01:55:49
Speaker
You're a murderer. I didn't think an appeals court could charge you with a crime that you were never convicted of in the first place. It was unprecedented. It was like COVID.
01:56:01
Speaker
Wow. I don't think they had ever had it happen before, to be honest with you. Yeah. Because that's yeah that's not just changing their mind. That's adding a new conviction. Totally.
01:56:18
Speaker
no he Yeah, exactly. he had never been convicted of murder. It was... cover-up whatever the fuck they called it. And then five years later, they're like, no, no.
01:56:29
Speaker
I don't know.
01:56:33
Speaker
That's awful. I wanted to watch the documentary if only could clarify the whole conviction um process, but I'll tell you what I do know.
01:56:43
Speaker
So, okay, what did I say? oh yeah, Carlos is like...
01:56:51
Speaker
overturned and then i guess convicted of murder and cover up so what can he do he's now sentenced to life in prison like but he doesn't give up he starts a radio show in prison that helps the case stay relevant to oh my god know a prison radio show that's interesting the one podcast I could find was like me to a prison show you know ah a podcast ah yeah i've heard at least alan and i ever get convicted of a crime we'll continue the podcast from prison
01:57:36
Speaker
i'd listen to it no i think referenced some show that i hadn't heard of but i do know there was one guy who was on the amazing race who had also been convicted um wrongly convicted of a crime and had like at least a podcast for a while while he was in prison or afterwards where he was like this is what it's like and i was like holy shit i should listen to that and then i never did yeah
01:58:02
Speaker
should i could have yeah yeah like real people um
01:58:09
Speaker
Okay, so, yes, speaking of real people, there's a lot of people that get kind of caught up in this. um Not just Carlos, the husband, but during this time, there are others that go to trial, including a Guillermo, um, Horacio, Beatriz, Sergio, who is a neighbor, and the doctors.
01:58:33
Speaker
So, like, relatives and the masseuse, basically. All of her family. Everybody goes to jail? Well, they're all going to trial for, like, a cover-up.
01:58:48
Speaker
With okay little to no evidence, in my opinion.
01:58:56
Speaker
um Carlos's defense team continued to build a case that would exonerate their clients saying they believed it was a bungled burglary. um Especially due to the fact that therere they knew the couple kept cash at home in a lockbox and it was not a secret.
01:59:13
Speaker
And that Maria had come earlier than anticipated. Like she'd come home earlier rather than anticipated when her tennis match was rained out.
Nicholas Pacello and Suspicion Shift
01:59:22
Speaker
So was probably some sort of planned Burglary that went wrong when she came home earlier than expected was the general consensus.
01:59:32
Speaker
Okay. Which is, to me, makes more sense than her husband randomly killing her when he was supposedly out watching football or soccer or whatever.
01:59:46
Speaker
Yeah. um Also, there were some shady characters, rather, in the community, such as one Nicholas Pacello, think is how you say it.
01:59:59
Speaker
um Nicholas's father was the one that built the gated community that they all lived in. um Carlos and Maria whatnot, etc. So, you were like, oh, he's got the hot shot dad, who's a race car driver.
02:00:16
Speaker
oh Apparently. I think Nicholas may have thought he was hot shit, but you know, i don't think he was. And not many people in the neighborhood liked him.
02:00:28
Speaker
Spoiler. Yeah. Okay. Strangely enough, there was neighborhood kids that called him Voldemort.
02:00:39
Speaker
Don't know what he did to them, but that's what it said. um um my God. That's honestly a wicked name. Right?
02:00:54
Speaker
Anyway, I think I got that. Not that I... Not that I'm endorsing bullying. um no Oh, no. That's not even to his face.
02:01:04
Speaker
Come on now. Why? Why are you and calling? How old is this kid anyway? What? What? How old is that kid anyway?
02:01:18
Speaker
okay the kids calling the names? or No, the the kid whose dad is a race car driver. Did it say how old he is?
02:01:31
Speaker
ah He's not a kid any anymore. his he's an adult whose dad built the gated community. So I don't i don't know. but he's he's um adult ages now uh yeah yeah he should be in a race car bed or anything like that but like yeah i think because his dad had some clout maybe he thought that he could throw it around i don't know
02:02:03
Speaker
um But yeah, people did not like him. There was also the suspicion that he was an asshole who may or may not have abducted Maria's dog, whose name was Tom.
02:02:16
Speaker
cute. Oh. Yeah, because like apparently her dog got abducted and then someone placed a ransom call and she was like, that was, what's his face? Nicholas.
02:02:27
Speaker
She was like, that's who it's like. Oh, Yeah, she never got her dog back and it was never proven. So fuck him, I guess.
02:02:38
Speaker
Oh, shoot. Yeah. And that's just what I heard on one source. i don't know. So hard to find sources on this one.
02:02:50
Speaker
um But like it was known that she really didn't like him. And probably because of that fact, like if he took her dog and also he was suspected of a string of robberies in the, you know, community area. So he had like a record and stuff.
02:03:08
Speaker
Huh. and Nicholas told investigators he was in the capital city on the night of the murder, but no one could verify that. And it didn't seem like anyone tried to like verify his alibi to me.
02:03:22
Speaker
um But one source said even stranger before they talked to Nick's mother about the case, they they wanted to talk to her, but then she jumped off a roof and died.
02:03:35
Speaker
um so cheese apparently she left a note a suicide sort of note to diego the investigator that said you ruined my son so that's weird sounds like you didn't raise a son Yeah. my What the hell, bitch?
02:03:58
Speaker
Not my fault. um Yeah, he was he was also witnessed by a neighborhood kids. Probably the ones who called a Voldemort. But, like, he was witnessed in the area on the night of the crime as well.
02:04:14
Speaker
Finally, a new set of prosecutors decided to start new investigations and Carlos's case is then vacated and he is released in 2016. So he's now exonerated for the murder of his wife.
02:04:28
Speaker
Thankfully. Cheers. You know, I really don't think it was Carlos. I'm not sure why they would. No, and they shouldn't be able to charge people like that. Based on like nothing? Yeah.
02:04:44
Speaker
Yeah, that's why you have trials and stuff. Like that should have been tried. They shouldn't have just been able like, well, we've decided sitting here randomly i like.
02:04:57
Speaker
that yeah
02:05:01
Speaker
Yeah. God forbid. I don't know our systems any better, but. I guess he got released eventually. And by the time all this has happened, it was... Oh yeah, fun fact. It was so late in the actual murder cases timeline, they had less than 12 months until the statute of limitations ran out.
Trial and Conviction of Nicholas
02:05:21
Speaker
Oh no.
02:05:24
Speaker
To me, someone wrote this like it was meant to be a ah Forensic Files episode or something. They're like, now they have 10 months to get the killer. was like, what?! the time crunch in the third act.
02:05:39
Speaker
Mm-hmm.
02:05:42
Speaker
And they were telling you to sell something based on the fact that there's not a lot left. It's called the scarcity close.
02:05:51
Speaker
Yep. So on October 7th, 2016, with 20 days left in the statute of limitations, they issue a summons.
02:06:02
Speaker
20 days, I know. The issue is summons for Nicholas and his wife, which apparently pauses the whole countdown clock. And that gives them until March of 2019 to make their next move.
02:06:18
Speaker
I don't know how. Jeez. And someone mentioned that the the wife happened to resemble the mystery woman they thought they saw around the crime scene.
02:06:29
Speaker
Of course. Okay. Yeah. Things were lining up. and But yeah, almost done here. like Yeah, I put the case on pause. Like I said, from almost when the statute of limitation was running out October 2016, they were able to then with the summons put a pause on until march 2019 when then they charged um nicholas with maria's murder and they had also charged two security guards in conjunction as well i wasn't sure if it was conspiracy or something it's really weird know just charging everybody
02:07:17
Speaker
Honestly, this one had so many scenes where it was like, there a bunch of people there. And I'm like, but I need specifics. I don't know. i felt like but I was pulling teeth trying to figure all this out.
02:07:30
Speaker
um But when it came out in the trial, there was actually quite a few. Like there was three witnesses that saw Nicholas on the scene of the murder. um Possibly kids on bikes calling him Voldemort. I don't know.
02:07:44
Speaker
they probably still saw him. I don't think they were lying.
02:07:51
Speaker
um that His mobile phone data was also a factor, so I know they like pinged it or whatever. oh my god, going back to 2002? Apparently, but most damning at all. Jesus, it's like 17 years before this.
02:08:08
Speaker
How they pinging his cell phone data. Hey, 2001! That was their first... Well, in America, anyway. They were like, this is our excuse to now monitor everyone's conversations.
02:08:20
Speaker
Anyway. It's just my opinion. I got a cell phone I felt like so early. I got mine in 2004. Like... Oh, I know, right? No, I had one around that time that I could play Snake on, but that I could also call my mom from because I needed a ride home 11pm. Yeah.
02:08:42
Speaker
um
02:08:45
Speaker
But yeah, eventually they do charge. Yeah, March 2019. They charge Nicholas with Maria's murder and two security guards are also implicated.
02:08:56
Speaker
During the trial, they say three witnesses at least saw Nicholas on the scene. And yes, those were the kids that knew him. The mobile phone data was a factor. He'd also called a realtor to move the day after her murder.
02:09:11
Speaker
So he was like, I want to move now. And that was killed.
02:09:19
Speaker
Just maybe like, let's just chill out a bit, bud. ah Yeah.
02:09:27
Speaker
Take it back, about 20%.
02:09:31
Speaker
Oh, and I thought this was a fun-ish, sad-ish fact that he'd even once been found guilty of robbery in one of his other cases where the victim's first name was first names was were also Maria Marta.
02:09:49
Speaker
so he was oh a robbery artist, and you he already victimized a Maria Marta after he killed, or before he killed this one, allegedly.
02:10:02
Speaker
Oh, ah weird.
02:10:06
Speaker
Yeah. Don't worry. The allegedly is going to get more solid here. Last page. Journalist Pablo Dugan, author of the book Carmel, about the sociologist's murder, said Pacello was the last person seen near mar Maria Marta before she was found dead.
02:10:22
Speaker
Two boys coming back from a football match saw him run toward Maria Marta's house. That, to him, is the key piece of evidence in the case. Yeah, so...
02:10:35
Speaker
He's kind of a deadbeat guy was seen with her before she was killed. remember The two boys saw him running towards her house.
02:10:48
Speaker
um In April of 2024, which was when I found like that podcast episode i listened to was released. He was found guilty. just a year ago.
02:11:00
Speaker
And according to the Buenos Aires Times, ah more than 21 years after the murder of Maria Marta Garcia Belsonce, the Buenos Aires Provincial Criminal Court of Appeals sentenced Nicolas Pacello to life imprisonment.
02:11:15
Speaker
Yay. It is a historic judgment by the Criminal Court of Appeals which reversed the decision made in December 2022, which had acquitted Pacello of killing Belsonce, a sociologist in
Conclusion and Reflections on Justice
02:11:28
Speaker
Pilar in 20... or 2002.
02:11:29
Speaker
or two thousand two Also quoted that part because I was like not understanding, but they had also, you know, by the sounds of it, already acquitted this guy and now are recharging him. So it's a little confusing. Oh my God. What are they even doing?
02:11:45
Speaker
I'm sorry. Did they not do that to her husband too? I got confused writing my notes. Let me tell you. If they had just investigated properly at the beginning... Yeah.
02:12:02
Speaker
That's the problem. If they, like, ah hone in on someone who's not the real killer, then they can miss a lot of clues.
02:12:11
Speaker
So frustrating. um The ruling was signed... ah This is the end, I swear....by the justices in Chamber 2 of the Court of Appeals...
02:12:24
Speaker
Fernando Mancini Hebeck and Maria Florencia Budino, who reversed the previous acquittal. In it, the judges observed that it was Pacello who, on October 27, 2002, went to the Bell's Sunday home in order to steal from and murder the sociologist.
02:12:43
Speaker
With the ruling, courts finally closed off the investigative theory whereby widower Carlos Carrizosa had been liable for the killing meeting her husband, and he got life in prison.
02:12:56
Speaker
This guy. yeah But it's, yeah, still a very frustrating case. i don't know.
02:13:06
Speaker
That's so weird to me. Like... Yeah. You're just charging everybody with fucking... tampering with the crime scene but they also don't believe it's really a crime scene like there's an accident but we're gonna charge you with tampering with the accident yeah i feel like we think we have a perfect chain of command and stuff and justice here and it's like no no this stuff happens all the time where like you don't really know so a story gets made up or whatever jeez
02:13:44
Speaker
That one was a weird one Right. I kept being confused. I'm like, well, he got, but then he got charged to murder, didn't The husband that was like, no, no, no. He got charged to the conspiracy of murder or the cover up of murder, but not the murder. And I was like, wait, I don't understand.
02:14:03
Speaker
Like my brain. Yeah. And they're like, ah, let's throw this one on. Yeah. That's why I'm like, if any of you Americans can watch the documentary, if anyone has anything, I would gladly take any constructive comments because I don't know what necessarily got. That's why sometimes in my cases and stuff has a lot of appeals or...
02:14:27
Speaker
a lot of trial information it's really hard to follow and sometimes I'm like there was a lot of appeals so I'm not gonna get into it it's just too much sometimes it's like half the half the story you're like oh my god this is too much oh yeah then you try to reword it and you're like well I don't understand what that means so I guess I'm just gonna quote right i that's me put it in my own words just copy and paste these seven pages right you're like because I'm not a lawyer I don't know what this means.
02:14:58
Speaker
Me, no, speaking of jargon. Yeah. Jeez. Yeah, that's a weird one because it doesn't really make sense. Like, if you're rich, why are you, like, breaking into people's homes?
02:15:15
Speaker
Unless you're just, like, mad at her It's crazy to me that, like, the the documentary, too, was, like, unsolved who killed this person and like well apparently it's everybody that and yeah you sure charged everybody guy but yeah yeah wow
02:15:43
Speaker
that was a crazy one okay good uh
02:15:48
Speaker
oh We kind know what we're talking about next week, but I think all we know is going to have to do with South America and some crazy mysteries and stuff. So yeah, any direction.
02:16:04
Speaker
Something, something a little different again, like this one. It's nice to do another international true crime episode. I know I wasn't expecting yours to be a robbery slash crime.
02:16:17
Speaker
sort of fun i was happy i finally got to cover that case there's also a really good one i can't remember where it happens it's also like could be somewhere in south america as well um really um ah where these guys also dug a tunnel um okay but they tunneled into the
02:16:45
Speaker
Into the vault or something. Okay. So a bank. They, like... Yeah, they, like, robbed it through the vault.
02:16:58
Speaker
And then they got away with it. um As well. But, like, something happened. They got in and, like...
02:17:09
Speaker
um
02:17:12
Speaker
Yeah, like somebody got in an argument with somebody and then they were like burying a couple of the guys got together again and like buried a bunch of the money in like somebody's yard. ah and then when they got sent to prison, they're like, oh, yeah, like...
02:17:29
Speaker
uh the money wasn't found so they're like the money is still out there like so they're like if they get released from prison and people haven't found the money they know where it is still they're just gonna go get the money again society yeah yeah it was just like oh but it was like the same kind of thing where they were like had rented a house and then we're like digging and uh but it was a different one um these were i'll have to try and find it maybe it'll be on my like previously watched on netflix or something yeah
02:18:10
Speaker
yeah it was pretty good vibes i i like that book series slash they did make into a mini series or whatever where so many berries um some books from their like famous book series. And so basically it's like buried treasure. It's all these unfinished books and stuff. And then.
02:18:31
Speaker
Oh, damn. Finds it. And yeah, it's kind of like, what, what would you do? you know, you found something valuable and it's kind of crazy, but dang, ah enjoyed that. That was episode.
02:18:48
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, same with you. well Catch you guys next week. Yeah, we'll be in South America. We know that. Yep.
02:19:01
Speaker
We'll see where it is. If only in spirit and not physically. Yeah. Oh, God, can you imagine? Yeah. Donate to Patreon.
02:19:13
Speaker
Yeah, exactly.
02:19:16
Speaker
Drink every time we say donate to Patreon.
02:19:21
Speaker
Until next week, catch it. wait Catch it next. Catch it next.
02:19:29
Speaker
Gotta catch them up. Wait, can't you say it? I can't do it. but Keep it cryptic. Bye-bye.
02:19:39
Speaker
ah babye
02:20:14
Speaker
who's stupid credit cards needs updates gets a call and so sometimes at the q generation time a month you'll get like now we have to call our list is on we have to call 1600 people and i'm like no even if only that sucks even if only a tenth of them like pick up which is like the case because that's a well you know how it is when you get like people call you on your phone that you don't know you're like is this ama like a lot of people just don't even yeah or whatever they go and update it online themselves and i'm like good i got like a a phishing text message earlier that said there was something wrong with my atb savings account or something and i was like oh yeah the thing that's wrong with it is the fact that i don't have one
02:21:02
Speaker
but cool and it was like click here click this link now to verify your account and i was like what the fuck don't have one like block right i was like getting stupid text messages now yeah it's almost like junk like they should go to a junk text folder or something yeah i tried to combos yeah send I wanted to, like, report the phone number, I guess, but it didn't have the option. It just said block. And I was like, I should be able to report them. Like, you can report, like, a yeah a spam email, and then it, like, helps, like, Gmail or whatever you keep track, and it'll flag it for other people once enough people report it as spam. So I wanted to do that. I wanted to, like, report it but there was no way to, so...
02:21:50
Speaker
It's like, well, that sucks. Just block it. for me Yeah, because if it's a fake, they'll put out their own. They'll be like, this was a fake phishing scam. And you guys didn't report it. Or you clicked on it.
02:22:01
Speaker
Bad, bad employees. And you're like, no. Yeah. Don't shame me. Right. Yeah. Gordo.
02:22:13
Speaker
Okay. you can't be right in front of me He's blocking the mic. Hi, is this your podcast now? The mic is a centimeter from your face.
02:22:28
Speaker
You can't. You can't. God, buddy. And it's like, I'm a lap dog. I'm like, only because I got down on the ground. Otherwise, he'll just sit as close as possible to you, like on your foot until you're like, fine.
02:22:43
Speaker
Like, Pat will be... He's playing his video game in the morning. I'm trying to just... I'm, like, I'm playing with the dog. But then the dog walks right over to Pat, who's playing his game, right? So he's kind of, like, leaned forward, like, right?
02:22:54
Speaker
And then... But the dog's yeah like, I'm going to sit right between your legs. And I'm going to sit down so that you get, you know, like, all annoyed and i have to lean back, even though...
02:23:06
Speaker
You clearly are not paying attention to me. Yeah, my dog's attention whore.
02:23:12
Speaker
Yeah. yeah Yeah. Gordo. I'll have to record have to record like this. We're gonna have to record like it's NPR.
02:23:24
Speaker
i don't know. He's totally... You're listening too. He's like, that his nose is like this far from the mic. but Baby. Baby. He has the diva gene.
02:23:38
Speaker
Meow into the mic. Meow. That was me. Yeah, wasn't him. Wordo, can you meow? Can you meow?
02:23:51
Speaker
He looked into my soul. Can you meow? Sorry. ah Can you meow? Can you meow? Can you meow?
02:24:05
Speaker
Oh my god. I gotta grab my phone. Buddy, don't use the mic to like comb your face. Okay, you gotta to go a little further away. Comb your face. He's just like, ah.
02:24:19
Speaker
I know, well it's got kind of a bumpy texture. and So he rubs his face and he's like, oh, it's like it's combing my cheek. I'm like, buddy. That's true.
02:24:32
Speaker
me turn this down Don't bite the cord. You're not supposed to bite things. That's not what you do. Yeah.
02:24:47
Speaker
Okay, okay.
02:24:50
Speaker
You got goopy eyes. Okay.
02:24:55
Speaker
Goopy eyes? Yeah, he had like, I don't know, some dry, sleepy stuff in his eye. like Oh, yes. I could always get that for Fenrir, too. ah was just like, gloopy eyes.
02:25:11
Speaker
I feel the magic between you and us.
02:25:23
Speaker
I blew my nose right before we started. oh my God. Okay.
02:25:29
Speaker
So. Just so you know, she thought my thing was so funny. Sorry. Oh, I didn't hear you. No. did you say? ah no, I didn't really say anything. No, no, no, no. Oh, my God.
02:25:45
Speaker
oh my god
02:25:51
Speaker
can show you Gordo. Look at this munchkin. Yeah, I said your name. said oh the Behold! The cursed area. The fluffy tummy. And your fuzzy chest. The most expensive cat stomach in the world, though.
02:26:14
Speaker
Yeah. And the fluffy armpit. He looks mad relaxed right now. yeah Yeah. Oh, now he's trying to kick me. See this? is on Now I'm Kelsey. I have to plug my thing in. Okay.
02:26:30
Speaker
Oh, mine was like about to die right before we started. I was like, it was going to go under 20%. Honestly, I thought I left mine at a pretty good percentage last night. And then when I went to look at something this morning, it was like critically low. And I was like, fine. I'll go plug you in.
02:26:48
Speaker
ah yeah Oh, he's clapping. Maybe we scored. Guard out. You're being too fussy and you keep knocking the mic over. you gotta to go.
02:26:58
Speaker
Go over there. Go over there. dear. Go over there. Come on.
02:27:09
Speaker
Oh my god, buddy. Or leave. Come on. We don't have a lot to go. Go. The sounds that come out of this guy.
02:27:23
Speaker
SkinCop is killing him. I know, I know. It's like a cranky baby. He's like, oh, my life is so bad.
02:27:34
Speaker
I can't live right in front of the mic in almost half Ugh, there's just hair everywhere. dare you? Don't you know I'm only happy when you're recording and I'm between you and the microphone?
02:27:48
Speaker
It's my happy place. It's the only time I feel joy.
02:27:54
Speaker
No, we called for an hour called for one of the full hours of the fourth John Wick movie. He was out cold in my arms.
02:28:05
Speaker
he was the little He was the little spoon while I laid on the couch. He was all bundled up like a little burrito in a blanket, and I was holding him like a swaddled little baby.
02:28:16
Speaker
oh that's because he's nocturnal. Oh, God. oh god Yeah, was so happy. He was so snuggly. Okay.
02:28:30
Speaker
Sorry. This... Okay. Um...