Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Classic ep (with special guest Tamsin from Pop Goes the Tam Tam!): Katie Sugden's death (Emmerdale 5th Feb 2015)
0 Plays2 seconds ago
We pause our regular broadcasting to share a special episode where we teamed up with the wonderful Tamsin from the Pop Goes the Tam Tam podcast to talk about a classic Emmerdale episode, when Katie Sugden sadly fell to her death in a barn. We talk about the extent of Robert's culpability, the limited range of photos on Katie's phone, and so many more things... you can watch the original episode yourself here!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WaKrT_Clu8
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction & Special Episode Announcement
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome to a special episode of Dingle All The Way. I'm Simon. And I'm Lizzie. And for this special episode we are joined with our friend Tamsin from the Pop Gozer Tam Tam podcast. Welcome Tamsin.
00:00:14
Speaker
Hello, thank you for having me. We're delighted to have you. The reason we're doing a special episode is because Lizzie and I are away for a couple of weeks, um or not actually away, for a couple of weeks. We just can't find any time to record. so um So we thought rather than just leave people hanging, we would get out one of our special episodes where we look back at a particular episode. and
Discussion on 'Katie Dying' and Background
00:00:37
Speaker
since we've appeared on Tamsin's podcast a couple of times and had great fun, we thought We'll get Tamsin on and Tamsin can choose the episode that we do. Tamsin, why did you choose Katie Dying?
00:00:51
Speaker
Why did I choose Katie Dying? That's an interesting one. I chose it because obviously we've had a lot of Rob Ron content since Robert returned last year. and we've had the purchase Well, not not quite purchasing, but going back into the Sugden family farm. And there's an argument over Wiley's farm in this, which I believe is where they were keeping all of the the slaves in the slave storyline. So I just felt like it was really pertinent, even though it's 11 years ago.
00:01:31
Speaker
Yeah, and gosh, 11 years ago, well, I remember watching this when it came out. um Can you give us a back bit of backstory, Tamsin? Who is Katie before we get on with the episode? So Katie is a Sugden by marriage. She is your classic horse girl. She loves horses. She had an affair with Robert when she was married to Andy, Andy Sugden, who's talked about a lot but not seen for years. um And she she was always striving for more and not really able to achieve it.
00:02:09
Speaker
So she had grand plans, relationship plans with Andy, the decision to get involved with Wiley's farm. All of that comes unstuck in this episode. And yeah, she just has a really tragic fate. So like her or loathe her,
00:02:28
Speaker
Did she deserve what she had coming to her?
Katie's Character Traits & Community Perception
00:02:32
Speaker
Well, should we do a straw poll when we start? Like, Lizzie, you've seen her, I'm sure, in lots of the Rob Ron playlist. Yeah. Obviously, I saw the tail end of her quite long tenure on the show. um she was there many, many years, wasn't she? Yeah, she was.
00:02:46
Speaker
do Do we like or loathe her, Lizzie? i don't think I know enough to say whether I like or loathe her, but I feel like like so many characters in Emmerdale, She has good traits and bad traits. I think they're quite good at having... um like There's rarely people who are just like pure villain or pure good guy.
00:03:05
Speaker
um and she definitely yeah has her foot in both camps. I don't think she deserved to um be pushed backwards and fall to her death, certainly. It pretty. The record how I feel. um She was trying to get the truth out about the Rob Ron stuff when it happened. And um yeah, I don't. Yeah.
00:03:29
Speaker
yes if Yeah. Yeah. Do you want to talk about the plot maybe the in the lead up to it? I guess so I'll just go on record first of saying that I didn't particularly like Katie because her personality in the years I watched seemed to be entirely has blonde hair and that seemed to be like... Hey, that's my entire personality.
00:03:44
Speaker
Look Lizzie, yes. And you seem to not loathe me? No, personality is not having blonde hair, you just simply have blonde hair. It's not the same thing. No. Just me have one thing. your hair is beautiful and no one's saying it's not. but but I feel like Katie's hair was it doing the lion's share of the character work for her.
The Secret & Wylies Farm Confrontation
00:04:10
Speaker
um i found it quite irritating but she and she certainly was well hated amongst the rob ron community as were anyone who was an obstacle to that but yeah as you as you say with this episode was the second half of of a two-part thursday episode back when we had those and what's leading up to it is that she has seen and taken a photo of aaron and robert kissing at this point in their relationship i think i'm right in saying that well Robert's about to marry Chrissy. He sort of wants to break it off, but he can't he can't pull away. Katie is angry of Robert doing bad things with her marriage for reasons that I forget. Maybe Tamsin will be able to fill us in. Isn't Katie like good friends with Chrissy or something?
00:04:54
Speaker
Well, I don't remember her being Crimes or Crissy. I think it was over the Wylies farm, which I keep mentioning. um And I think it was about the fact that Robert was blocking and eventually blocked Andy and Katie Purchase in it.
00:05:12
Speaker
And he also put a wedge between Andy and Katie's relationship as well. So... did set fire to their caravan at one point. I remember that. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:23
Speaker
that was a lot And there was a lot of tension between them because she didn't believe he changed. He was still salty because of their affair and surprised that Andy was back with her, that sort of thing, basically.
00:05:37
Speaker
And the affair was when he had a different face, right? It was, yeah. yeah Yeah. It was straight Robert. When he was played by the other Robert. Yeah. I don't think I ever saw that. I thought you meant he had like facial reconstruction surgery. I never saw the original Robert because that was before my time but he was there as ah as a young man and played by another actor and then when when he came back for the Aaron Robron storyline for or I guess just to be in the show but what kicked off the Aaron storyline oh was new blonde Robert.
00:06:10
Speaker
Yeah. lo but I mean, I think the best way to see it is the actor that played Robert previously, that was straight Robert. And now we have bisexual Robert and they're very different. Yeah, yeah yeah we can get on the labels because katie was Katie's never heard of bisexuals. Yeah, Katie's there. She's so confused when he was gay. Come on, there's some brown hair. She absolutely is not having it.
00:06:37
Speaker
um And even if we we're like miff weighing in the scales at that point, he's surely slept with Chrissy a lot he's kissed Aaron in front and He's done more than that with Aaron, but Katie doesn't
Robert's Intentions: Murder or Scare?
00:06:45
Speaker
know that. So if we had to pick a side, which we don't, then we what it would be. But um yeah, some things don't change in Emmerdale because...
00:06:54
Speaker
they still seem to be absolutely obsessed with horrible farms. When Robert was telling me, like, this could all be yours, at this ramshackle old shed. Like, look around you, this thing needs to be condemned, but it could be yours.
00:07:07
Speaker
and No one wants this. This is, this is a it's not even a poison chalice, it's just a bucket of poison. chalice. I hadn't put two and two together and realised that, like you said, Tamsin, this is where the slave ring was being kept.
00:07:23
Speaker
So that's quite interesting to come full circle. And I mean, it doesn't look like they've much to reinforce or like make women nicer since then. So they have a lot of argument. Robert's quite violent.
00:07:34
Speaker
thoughts on Thoughts on Robert being violent to women? Pro or against? I would say broadly against. Yes, agreed. Broadly a grant against. I've got a question. Do we think that he intended to kill her? Because I feel like it was escalating up It's tricky. Well, Lizzie, you go. what do you think? I don't think he did. i think he meant to maybe physically hurt her. He meant to scare her.
00:08:00
Speaker
i don't I think he you can see from his reaction that he truly didn't think that she was going to fall through the like floor and die. because then he i thought it was interesting. He's almost kind of angry with her for dying. He's like, why have you done this? is like Classic Katie. um Yeah, she's so conniving, even in her death. Yeah, I do think he intended it to happen, like even if only because it was messy and incriminating for him.
00:08:31
Speaker
I don't think he meant the push to kill her, certainly. But all the things he was saying leading to it, being like, oh, you've gone too far this time. You you don't you have to look what you're making me do i got to qui like Even if he shut her in the room to get married, it's not like if she came out and told Chrissy about the affair that she'd be like, oh, well, I guess we're married now. So water under the bridge. So all the things he was saying made it sound like he wanted to kill her.
00:08:56
Speaker
I don't think he actually wanted to kill her in that moment. But what was the plan, Robert? What was the plan? I think the plan was to scare her so much that she deleted the photo she had of Aaron and Robert kissing.
00:09:09
Speaker
And she was like, I'll be quiet about this forever because I'm so scared of you. Interesting. Now she's quiet about it forever because she's dead. yeah but she yeah No, she definitely was quiet about it.
00:09:22
Speaker
um But it feels very much in keeping with Robert's behaviour, though, because he doesn't think he does things in a rush and he doesn't think things through.
Robert's Character Development
00:09:32
Speaker
And that felt very much all of the behaviour we have seen recently with the sort of Moira stuff. And he doesn't stop to think about what he's doing because, as you said,
00:09:44
Speaker
What would have happened if he just shut her in that room? Eventually she would have gotten out. She would have told people. Also, if he kind of physically attacked her, then she could have gone to the police. So there are so many ways of this not ending the way he wanted it to. He kind of didn't think about that.
00:10:03
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I will stop you there, Tamsin. The police don't care. The police don't care about anything in Amadeus. yeah None of that is nice.
00:10:14
Speaker
They'd find some reason why this is Paddy's problem. yeah Yeah. This feels like Moira thing, even though i'm not sure she joined the village at that point, but it's definitely, no, she had actually, she had bit.
00:10:28
Speaker
yeah yeah I think like Robert is just very reactive isn't he of like he doesn't really ever act from convictions he acts from being like oh no this suddenly affects me emotionally and so gonna do something rash about it and like hang the consequences and then once he's in a bit too deep he has to try and sort it out and that usually involves like roping someone else in and I yeah I don't know if you had plans to bring this up later but I think like the way that he sort of slowly convinced Aaron that this was his problem to deal with thought was really interesting yeah
00:11:05
Speaker
I think what's interesting about robert Robert is like now compared to then is that he does still make these rash, stupid decisions, but it's generally now because it's trying to help somebody he loves. Whereas then it was all about helping himself. And so that's, that's growth.
00:11:18
Speaker
Yeah. well and He is still sometimes kind of manipulative, but not to the people who he loves the most. As in, I can't imagine that him ever manipulating like Vic or Aaron no in the way that we see him. Like he used to treat Aaron like that.
00:11:32
Speaker
Whereas now you do still see his nasty side, but it's like against Joe Tate. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And I think they kind of had to make that change because the robot we've got here is very selfish. And like you say, he's acting from himself, self-protection. He's using Aaron. He doesn't really care about Aaron and he didn't care about Katie. And it's all about how this will affect him, even her death. How will this affect him? He doesn't think about Andy or Victoria
Katie's Social Connections in the Village
00:12:03
Speaker
or anyone else but so there had to be that change because if he was just like this now I think it would be really wearing however much you love Rob Ron he needed to change a bit maybe yeah well I was watching it thinking like
00:12:22
Speaker
Rob Ron now seems like, you know, they're kind of troublesome and they have like ups and downs, but it's like, it's fairly wholesome. Whereas back then, like, I'm amazed that there were so many people who were really behind Rob Ron because you're like this does seem quite toxic. And like, yeah, there's definitely manipulation and coercion going on in this relationship. And you're like wow, people were really behind this. But to me, it seems quite like problematic.
00:12:47
Speaker
I guess it's also when you're watching it steadily over years, I guess if you're watching the playlist, you see all the toxicity like much quicker. Yeah, because it's like in quick successions, everything that happens is a bit difficult.
00:12:59
Speaker
Yeah, because I mean, I was a big Rob Rom fan back in the day, but also like when he burnt the caravan, I was like, oh, that is a that's a tough move. Killing Katie met mattered less to me. So apparently where I think is like caravans above Katie Sugden. But um never mind.
00:13:15
Speaker
Katie, can you inform us? Katie, does she use to have like a family or does your parents, brother, sister or anything in the show? I think she might have had a family. I don't think they ever came into the show. I know she was a surrogate at one point. um But no, she was always around the Sugdens. I think family were mentioned and obviously your listeners will be able to let you know whether she had family in the show or not. But I think they were mentioned but not seen. Because certainly by the time I saw her she felt like even though she had the relationship with Andy, a bit like sort of
00:13:53
Speaker
Wayful Stray, like she didn't have the anyone else to turn to. She wasn't, I don't remember particularly being friends. Was she friends with Debbie maybe? But she wasn't like, yeah there wasn't so people that you'd be like, oh, she can hang out with them or she can rely on them. It's always just an obstacle in whatever Sugden drama was going on.
00:14:09
Speaker
Yes, yeah. She was one of those characters where she was completely defined by her relationships. And usually it was the relationship to whoever she was with. Because I think she went out with Jay for a bit and got in with that crew. You mentioned Debbie, though. And there was always tension between Debbie and Katie because of Sarah. Because obviously Debbie... like yeah but Because like wasn't Katie kind of raising Sarah Andy, but then Debbie was actually her mum?
00:14:45
Speaker
Yeah, for a long time, yeah, they were. And then also because I always thought that Debbie still had feelings for Andy, I don't think that was ever part of the story, but I always kind of got that vibe. And I think there was tension there as well.
00:15:01
Speaker
Yeah, that's interesting. and um Yeah, it must be hard when, yeah, there is a character who, all of their links to the village kind of drop away. We always say this about like Billy, don't we? um Like, I think he is a really strong character and he has a lot to offer, but it does seem that everybody who he is linked to kind of cuts him off and you're like, oh, i hope that you still stick around. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, I think the actress chose to leave as far as I know, but i she had a very dramatic storyline. So that's nice. But I think she's well in it. Like I felt very tense. Yeah.
00:15:35
Speaker
it was I liked that it was very character based. It was obviously quite dramatic, but it wasn't you know, like a big set piece or or, you know, a very expensive stunt or anything. It was, I mean, the the actual cut to the stunt of him pushing her, cutting to her falling did not feel particularly fluid. I will say very evidently a different person at a different time. But um but yeah, it felt, it felt like the, like a very um satisfying combination of a long tension. And obviously then led into other stories. I can't really remember what happened to afterwards in terms of what,
00:16:11
Speaker
what they thought happened, do they just go, oh, she must just gone to hang out in an old barn and then died? Yeah, I think that's what happens because obviously um Sam sees her riding up there and then later they find her horse and all of this comes out at the wedding reception of Chrissy and Robert and then i think it's Victoria and Andy and the step-mom, who I can't remember the name of off the top my head, They all go there.
00:16:43
Speaker
Yeah, Diane. And yeah, she's dead. And i don't know if this is right. It's probably not because my memory is terrible. But kind of months down the line, isn't it eventually Aaron who ends up telling somebody the truth?
00:16:58
Speaker
Because he can't cope with the guilt. Yeah, I believe Is it Chaz? Yeah, I think he does. Yeah. And so then that's a huge thing in him and Robert's relationship because...
00:17:11
Speaker
You know, he did it because his mental health was crumbling and he couldn't cope with the guilt. But Aaron obviously takes it as a betrayal. Robert takes it, yeah. ah Yeah, Robert takes it as a betrayal.
00:17:23
Speaker
Yikes. and I know, crazy. I want to also point out the irony of Katie basically falling through the floor when I think the previous year there'd been all this drama about trying to save her from a hole.
00:17:38
Speaker
What hole
Katie's Past & Shared History with Robert
00:17:39
Speaker
was she in? So she fell in a hole like the previous year. What hole? Tell us more. don't know whether it was like a well or a sinkhole, but there was all this drama about trying to get her out of it.
00:17:53
Speaker
And for her to just fall through the floor. She loves in stuff. She does be a damsel in distress, doesn't she? I love the idea of like as an actor just like sitting down with the producers and being like so what's coming up for me in the next little while? they're like you're gonna fall in a hole. That's what we're coming to. You're gonna be in a hole.
00:18:14
Speaker
I think I'm right in saying she dated an arsonist for a while as well who killed Viv. Oh, sweet. Yeah, so I think that's one of her past inamorata.
00:18:25
Speaker
um Well, God bless her for, you know, falling through things. She gives good fall, but you know you know, if you if you fall well, then... Might as well play to your strengths. We're also obviously living in an era where saving something to the cloud wasn't a thing because Katie could just be like, that's in my one drive now, so do what you do it may.
00:18:48
Speaker
I did have questions about the capacity of her phone and like, I think maybe in like 2007 2008 I had a phone where I could only hold maybe 20 photos on it and it was like a one-in-one-out policy if I took a photo i had to decide which one I was going to delete yeah but this was like quite a while after that but she still only had sort six photos on there and it was like her wedding photo a photo of like i don't know her and her mum or something and then this photo of Robert and Aaron kissing and you think that made the cut for you was her favourites folder she's like I'm treasure I'm treasure There's nothing really going on.
00:19:25
Speaker
Those phones though, they felt so old, didn't they? Looking at them. Yeah, so like blocky. Yeah, crazy. Yeah. They weren't being used to go on the internet either. You could take me tell. They were just straight up phones to call someone or text. Yeah. Yeah, and that's why it survived being flung on the floor because those phones didn't survive anything. Like now you like look at a phone wrong and it'll break, whereas back then...
00:19:52
Speaker
Yeah, I know we've talked on our podcast before about um how impressive it is when people are in prison and they can remember like the phone numbers of the people they want to call on Emmerdale. What I wasn't expecting was for Robert to have an encyclopedic knowledge of all of the significant dates in Katie's life. Like possibly be having go like... Okay, her birthday. Nope, that didn't work. Andy's birthday. No, not that. Their anniversary. Okay, I'm in. How do you know all this just off the top of your head? Well, I think maybe he knew it because they kind of the three of them, had lived together for a long time after Jack died.
00:20:30
Speaker
Yeah, they lived at Emmerdale Farm for, it's got be about 18 months together. Sure, that does make, and I guess they are brothers, aren't they? But I guess it was, I kind of felt like, I don't feel like you're particularly fond of Katie or like necessarily know her super well. And yet you just know all these dates, but you're right. The link to Andy would be the thing. But also, do people genuinely use memorable dates for their codes in that way? Because my codes are like just sequences of numbers I've memorized. I don't use my birthday.
00:20:59
Speaker
Oh my goodness. I do. would you Do Okay, everyone, if you want to hack hands and speak. Just talk the internet now. When's your birthday?
00:21:09
Speaker
yeah mine is um one of them is like the landline from a house i grew up in one of them is like i don't know it's just a a pin code that my mom used to have on her phone and i thought i'll use that um yeah yeah for but maybe maybe that's safer and like i do think the best numbers to remember are phone numbers from your childhood because as i discussed if i had to phone someone it would be my childhood friends who don't live there anymore. the Yeah, I'd say in my house, I grew up in. Yeah. And as you said, when I mentioned that in the episode, I did grow up in a vicarage. So presumably it's still vicarage and they'd have to help me.
00:21:48
Speaker
Oh, wow. That's nice. By law, maybe I don't know. yeah the law of the lord lord of the lord maybe by canon law don't know um uh so obviously we've covered the the katie stuff but there was much more than that going on in this episode um any highlights from the other things that you saw Well, can I just say, I felt like maybe there was a bit too much going on in this episode.
00:22:16
Speaker
And it felt like maybe they were trying to bury merger that you didn't necessarily see coming amongst all of this sort of banal stuff. But a lot of it wasn't banal. like You had Ross grabbing his brother in the middle of the wall pack. You had them talking about whether they were going to go down south with Archie. and so a lot of it was quite big stuff off amongst you know Val talking about the size of her hat Yeah, I mean, obviously, that was my personal highlight because i dearly love that and her hat and the idea of like trying to find Eric in the hat. Just peak comedy. Yes, please. take it
00:22:53
Speaker
Yeah, i was also watching it like, wow, this feels like quite a lot of significant plot points are happening at once, like in amongst a wedding episode, which is now probably the main event.
Concurrent Plotlines & Family Drama
00:23:01
Speaker
If there's a wedding episode, it's like, that's what's happening. Whereas, yeah, all the stuff with Ross and that was like Ross and Finn's mum, wasn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:10
Speaker
What's her name again? Emma. And is she the one that Maura pushed off a bridge? Yeah, that's her. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I kind of felt like they were delving into lot of, like, Ross's historic relationship with his mum and all this stuff. And like, this feels quite, like, they would probably just have special episode on that now. They love special episodes now, don't they? Yeah, they do.
00:23:32
Speaker
Back then, they were just like, we'll cram everything in. but So, yeah, like, the vow stuff was nice, comment relief, but, like, Rachel may be moving. That's not ah neither interesting nor light relief. It was just... happening um Yeah, I thought it was quite amusing how like moralistic and judgmental Emma was considering her later like murder spree. So...
00:23:57
Speaker
And yeah, I just kept looking around it at the number of people who were dead in it. Yeah, it was crazy. Leila, we saw Leila. Sweet, sweet Leila. But yeah, Leila, Val, Emma, Finn.
00:24:09
Speaker
Who else did we see who dies? Did Lachlan die mercifully? or He didn't die. He did kill Chrissie. Lachlan die? i think he did. And they mention Rebecca and obviously she died. Rachel dies off screen at some point, I think. Doesn't Lauren's die?
00:24:27
Speaker
Yeah, he dies. Oh yeah, everyone dies. What about Alicia? She's still alive? She's still alive and longed for her to come back. So Alicia was the bridesmaid who... She was really cool. liked her. Yeah, she's fun. She's Jacob. She's a lot of people obsessed with.
00:24:43
Speaker
Yeah, so that was sort of the beginning of him, like, sort of, he was, like, don't know, making common words hurt. And I think that led to the sexual assault storyline that was really well done, actually. She was so good in that storyline. um She's such a good character in general. And she's Jacob's biological mum. Oh, I had no idea. Yeah, so I really, really want her to come back. No way to say she's not Jacob's biological mum. She's Jacob's adoptive mum. I was going to say I thought that was Leila. Leila is biological mum. Jacob knew was adopted, I think, but he didn't know that Leila was his biological mum and that was a big thing that came out at one point. So why doesn't Alicia come back and just be like a mother figure to Jacob? Why not? I'd love her too.
00:25:24
Speaker
We need that. She's really cool. I like her. She's so fun. And she was such a good actor. And she was really good at both like comic stuff and um terrible stuff. Which we need.
00:25:36
Speaker
Yeah. need We do need that. um Enjoyed seeing Home Farm dress up for a wedding? Yes. Yes, I suppose so. They didn't seem to go to the church at all, but maybe they did that later. i forget Yeah, I think they did that later. Yeah, they do. They do get married, don't they? Yeah, yeah they do.
00:25:54
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Just not for very long. Yeah, Robert's making like furtive looks all the time, I imagine. Being like, soz re-killing someone on our wedding day. It is tricky.
00:26:06
Speaker
What did we think of the wedding clothes? What did we think of the bridesmaids dress? Because Alicia looked amazing considering she was rostered in so late. yeah i was thinking like that's definitely been tailored to you but sure yeah she looked amazing it was quite booby i guess you know if you can't be booby on a wedding day when can you be she was booby most of the time i will say you like she was like she was very like tart the heart coated um but which was actually what was so impactful in the sexual assault storyline in that she started wearing these like really baggy clothes afterwards because she was like i or must have been like
00:26:41
Speaker
leading him on and then people are like no you can wear your leather print bras in public without that that is heartwarming sorry i didn't mean to laugh was the way you said it and that's when i started wearing leather print bras that was where that came from we all did yeah you had to it was the law the law of the land but the law of the lord yeah it looked like an expensive it looked like an expensive wedding which is nice because they were super rich and
Chrissy and Robert's Wedding Amidst Chaos
00:27:09
Speaker
you would want them to not look cheapsy was a bit underwhelmed by chrissy's dress it was very curiosity it was nice but it was a bit okay it was quite over time though i think yeah i guess it was second wedding as well you know she's not gonna go
00:27:27
Speaker
remember I'm trying to remember who the father was Lachlan. He was in for a while, wasn't he? I don't know. I think I wasn't watching it then. I feel like and and he came back and was it was evil, but I've maybe fabricated that completely.
00:27:43
Speaker
He did come back briefly. I don't, yeah, I remember seeing it in the playlist, but I can't really remember what the deal was. But he was like, i think he lived, I don't know somewhere and he had a load of money through gambling or something like that. And he kept being like, I'm going to take you off and you'll have a better life.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah, Donnie. That was it. Yeah. He turned up after the sexual assault to be like, don't do that. ah But then he got bit put pizz up in a car and beaten up by someone.
00:28:13
Speaker
Exciting. It does happen. ah But he didn't die. So that's something for him. and got I thought it was so random that Robert wore his wedding suit to this ugly farmhouse with, I mean, it's not, you know, mice live in there. Probably rats live in there. Bats live in there. There's dust. There's probably dog poo in some places. Like, why would you wear your wedding suit in there? True. I think I wondered if it was meant to be sort of like showing you the sense of urgency that he had of being like,
00:28:49
Speaker
yeah I am literally ready for my wedding. I'm on the way there, but i just have to see Aaron. Yeah, good. Yeah, guess so. It's all just very urgent. Like, it's what I need. Yeah.
00:29:02
Speaker
um Also, it's a bit of a drama, I guess. It's always nice. And I've always thought that Robert and Aaron were very Cathy and Heathcliff coded.
00:29:13
Speaker
So that wouldn't track. Which one's which? I think, I think. Oh, I don't know. Which one do you think is which?
00:29:30
Speaker
at that play stage, well. trying to think I'm not sure I can see it if I'm completely honest because they like think people were both detrimentally obsessed with each other I guess these two were but for a long time Robert was very much the less obsessed of the two more just couldn't resist going back but didn't also like offer it nothing so tricky I truly don't know Wuthering Heights well enough to say but I would quite like to see the new film Yeah.
00:29:58
Speaker
Do we think they went and saw it? Because I think they did. Yeah. yeah I mean, tell me more because I can't imagine why Aaron would go and see it, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.
00:30:11
Speaker
I think Robert would want to go and Aaron would like humor him. Yeah, that's what I think. I think it was a two for one or maybe some sort of, remember when they used to do like Orange Wednesdays? Yeah.
00:30:28
Speaker
Like a meerkat one or something as well. Yeah. That's it, the meerkat one Yeah, they went on Meerkat Wednesday They're all about the meerkats I love that for them Had a hot dog and then left halfway through Yeah Because I don't think he's read Wuthering Heights I'm going to it out there I don't have eyes Simon, you can't see that as an object of disdain Look, I can and I will He might have listened it on audiobook though don't think he did, Thompson I just don't see that for him He's not going be popping that on at the scrapyard, is he?
Character Relationships & Dynamics
00:31:05
Speaker
never know You know. What do you think Aaron listens to in his headphones when he's at the scrapyard? Crying noises.
00:31:15
Speaker
I think he probably secretly really likes, like um I don't The Beatles. Do you think? Do you think you're going to see the new films?
00:31:28
Speaker
You're obsessed with him going to the cinema. Are you obsessed with Karen going to the cinema on a meerkat Monday or whatever it not Yeah, it does feel like we're doing like research for Cineworld's PR team right now. I think sponsored by Odeon for this podcast. Oh dear.
00:31:51
Speaker
Yeah, um so though it did remind me of how many great characters that we saw. It also reminded me when we had the scene between Ali and Rachel of how some of the characters weren't so great because, ah gosh, they were they were a trial when they were on screen. Were they ones in the cafe talking about Luton?
00:32:07
Speaker
Yeah, that was baby Archie, that we who is now teenage Archie. Yeah, and this is the first time I realised that Archie wasn't Laurel's child. I thought that Archie Laurel and Jay's boy. What's that word? Son.
00:32:22
Speaker
No, it was with Rachel the Cleaner. Goodness. There was quite an impressive storyline, actually, where she would disappeared with Archie, and then Jay, like, bought Archie back, like, paid PI to go and grab him. But then turned out later he'd accidentally...
00:32:36
Speaker
or he or maybe even deliberately even given a different Archie i don't know what happened to that Archie I guess he just shipped him off somewhere but um unless unless that is the current Archie I don't know whether we've got real Archie or fake Archie in the show to this day but I assume real Archie Archie's next um storyline they'll just be like you're not the real one you know I mean, Arthur was also swapped at birth. So, you know, there's, you know, Laurel will only be an adoptive mother to someone if they are.
00:33:04
Speaker
but she's She's just his actual mother, but yeah. Are we certain that this is the right Arthur? Yeah, the other one died, sadly. So we're down talked down to one. brett if you ever want to cry google like baby daniel dying laurel is so good in that scene if i ever need sometimes if i get like really dry irritated eyes and i need to cry i'll just pop that on um what do we think about ross's haircut slash it was lot wasn't it a lot going on in that hair it looked like it was lacquered on
00:33:43
Speaker
It was more liquid than solid, I think it's fair to say. Yeah, yeah it was aggressive. other than that, didn't range at all. I've got a say, I thought Emma, because I'd forgotten who she was, I thought she was Ross's girlfriend.
00:33:59
Speaker
I thought that was the way they were talking to each other at first. And then afterwards, I was like, wait, no, I think that was Emma. is there that she she was i don't know if she actually she was young, but she certainly looked very young. She did. And because she was saying things like, please just tell me you've never done anything like this before. It just, I was like, it feels more like that would be a girlfriend thing to say. Whereas you would assume that like a mum was more involved with their life the whole way through and would have more of an idea of that. I don't know. Yeah, she wasn't very involved in in his life.
00:34:33
Speaker
I forget exactly why. Possibly because she tried to kill him when he was two. That came up later. It sounds like she sort of abused him as a child, which is awful. Yeah. um Not what we want.
00:34:46
Speaker
But also, i mean, I know this is not as bad as child abuse, but her fringe was very confusing. so like it was so sparse. What was going on? I wasn't really zeroing in on the fringe. It was only like a few strands here and there. it was like sort of artist's impression of a fringe from a distance, maybe.
00:35:07
Speaker
That's all I could focus on in the scene. You weren't listening to a word they were saying. All I could look at was his hair and her hair, and one was too much, one was not enough. And that's all I was getting.
00:35:18
Speaker
Now, I also was a bit surprised because everybody in that family, in the Barton, seemed to have different accents. Yes, that's true. ah Because he sounded really like Scouse in a way that I wasn't expecting.
00:35:31
Speaker
He used to be a lot more Scouse. I mean, he still is a bit Scouse, but... And I think the actor is Scouse. Okay. How old is he meant to be?
00:35:43
Speaker
Oh, should look? I'll have a look. I think he's like 38, 39 now. Oh, really? okay. but So back then he was like 20-something.
00:35:56
Speaker
If he's like 38. He was born in 1990. 36, okay. He would have been 26 then, but he didn't look 26. Were you thinking older or younger?
00:36:08
Speaker
he just, Ross doesn't really age, does he? just always looks mid to late 30s. It's true. Yeah, although he he still had the like vulnerable look that it really warmed to my heart when he was like. Yeah. ki you yeah I can forgive him anything it seems it's troubling how much you love that man it is isn't it um but you know anyone who gives me gives like puppy dog eyes
00:36:40
Speaker
I'll forgive literally anything and you know what Ross is an icon and a saint well let should we just go through the Barton brothers maybe like into because we saw all three of them in this episode rank them for your thoughts Okay, well, there was Ross. Obviously, we know and love Ross probably the most because he's in it yeah recently. Yeah.
00:37:03
Speaker
um And Finn was in there as well, who I don't know as well. He was very boring. He could not act. He was very like um Lewis in some ways, but like Lewis is so much better and more interesting.
00:37:19
Speaker
Okay, as in because he was a younger gay brother of Ross. Yeah, and I mean that dynamic that they have. not as if The character was maybe much was much nerdier, ah but but that sort of yeah he brings out the same things in Ross that Lewis does. yeah So is Lewis basically a kind of replacement character then?
00:37:42
Speaker
I guess so they're always like they're always filling out the family somehow, aren't they? So maybe he's just like... I think Lewis brings a lot to the table and of himself. Yeah, I think he's definitely better.
00:37:54
Speaker
Yeah. Wait, so who was the third? We had Finn, Ross... Well, it was Gilly from Hollyoaks. I don't think that would mean anything to... Or me, in fact. But it was... um Yeah, it was Pete.
00:38:12
Speaker
the most
Helicopter Crash & Storyline Impact
00:38:13
Speaker
boring of the Baton brothers. Oh, wow. Yeah, they don't seem at all related. And he he he dated, he married Debbie. He dated Rona at one point.
00:38:23
Speaker
He, who else did Yeah, his thing was being boring. Oh, I remember him. Was he like trying to marry Debbie when the helicopter crash happened? He was, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
00:38:35
Speaker
Oh, RIP Val. Oh, Yeah, of course. That's when she died as well. but yeah, he she was having an affair with somebody at that point. Ross? Or had had an affair with Ross, maybe?
00:38:48
Speaker
i think it was Ross, yeah. Yeah.
00:38:53
Speaker
Classic. We love a brother brother love triangle, apparently. That's something that happens a lot. So we can blame him, boring old him, for the death of wonderful Val.
00:39:07
Speaker
I know. and I'm trying to remember what was going on with the helicopter, like why it crashed. Oh, it was because um didn't like Chrissy find out about Robert and Aaron and she set fire to the scrapyard and then a big gas canister just exploded, flew into the air and then it caused the helicopter to come down onto the village hall.
00:39:28
Speaker
Some of the worst effects that we've ever seen in Everett House. It was terrible for the break. Yeah, that is, was the exploding gas canister, which feels unlikely. but um And of course, poor Val was locked in a hall of mirrors. That was so distressing because it's just like all these jangly bits of glass dangling above, dangling above, and you just know at some point they're all going to impale her.
00:39:52
Speaker
Yeah. So if we if we can only bring one dead person from this episode back from the dead, who would it be? You're going Val. yeah you're saying Val and I would probably agree if I knew her but i don't know her I am going to say Leila and I'm so torn between Val and Leila because they both bring like funny feisty fringy women that i i adore I think it is it's just I'm just going push it towards Leila which I never thought I'd say because i love Val so much well um and of all the dead people who are happy to stay dead I guess
00:40:28
Speaker
Yeah, unfortunately, the dead person who's come back to life is Graham. That's true.
Humorous Critique of Graham
00:40:33
Speaker
He wasn't in this particular episode, but yes. Never miss an orhodo opportunity. Tamsin, are you still there? we lost you Yeah, I'm still here.
00:40:42
Speaker
ye Yeah, never miss an opportunity to slate Graham. yeah What do you think about Graham? Totally unrelated to this episode. Oh my God, I think he's awful. Yes.
00:40:52
Speaker
I messaged you about this. Yeah, you did. my mum calls him Captain Black, which is from a character from like a Gerry Anderson puppet show from the 60s. And it's basically this zombified guy, this zombified puppet that comes back from the dead. and I see that.
00:41:13
Speaker
yeah He does seem fairly alive. He does. he does yeah I just don't like him. I don't know what Captain Black looks like, but he does kind of... Graham looks like a Thunderbird to me. Yeah, yeah whatever Captain Black looks like, that is Graham. We just't we know that.
00:41:30
Speaker
um I think the person in the episode who's dead who are most pleased can stay dead is... It's tricky, so many of them. I think Lawrence. He was quite tedious. I think Lockdown because he gave me the creeps.
00:41:43
Speaker
yeah Emma? I did look up looking and Lockham turns out not dead say oh Oh, okay Is he often high maximum security prison? He's in prison because he killed a lot of people So when will he come out do we think? Oh, never to Emmerdale surely I'm quite pleased Finn's dead, he was quite boring He was, he was really dull yeah And Emma killed him Emma killed him by mistake yeah Wow ah Rachel actually quite glad she's dead.
00:42:14
Speaker
actually a lot of people, but like Katie, somewhere in the middle. Not happy she's not sad she's dead.
00:42:23
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like we haven't actually spoken that much about Katie considering this is meant to be the subject of the episode, but there wasn't really much to say. Yeah, I mean, i i something I did like to go back to that main part is I know Robert phoned Aaron in quite manipulative way, but I liked that even then he was like, I need help.
00:42:41
Speaker
Aaron's the one who'll help me. And there's there's a sweet side to that if you try really hard to see it. Yeah, I mean, it's always nice to be someone's desperate phone call. but i think no I don't think anyone at all has ever phoned me to say they've accidentally killed someone. Not one.
00:42:54
Speaker
Really? Yeah. because And that's quite helpful, actually, but I've not made it to the top of your list for that. I can't imagine that you would take it well. I'd panic, for sure. I would not be level-headed. But I think I'd go and i think i'd go and be ineffectual near them. And that's some the cook go gamp for something.
00:43:13
Speaker
Just body doubling more than anything else. I don't know what body I'm doubling, but yeah. You can be Katie. Would it help if I pretended to be Katie? Is that something? I don't think Pop on a brick blonde wig and let us live our lives? Is that anything?
00:43:31
Speaker
My question, though, about the call to Aaron is, what do you think Aaron was expecting when he got to the farm? Because he coped with it really well, considering he was probably just expecting him to say, oh this has happened or oh you know i can't live without you i don't want to marry chrissy that type of thing i thought he dealt with it really well well what did he actually say on the phone was it just like come back something really bad's happened i can't really remember how much can't remember what it was i think he said i need you oh rob it probably would be like oh great he's not going to get married
00:44:11
Speaker
And then you're like, oh, he is going to get married and I have to cover up a murder scene. Yeah, that's a real like one step forward, two steps back situation, isn't it? Bit of a kick in the teeth. Yeah. ah But at that point, Robert, sorry, Aaron, bless him, would have done anything Robert asked. And it was it was quite sad and tragic to see.
00:44:31
Speaker
it was. It really was. Yeah. It's really gone full circle, or not full circle, 180, I guess. So like recent scenes where, you know, he's choosing, he's still choosing Robert when he up against family, but in a way that feels much less manipulat manipulative. And they do seem to actually have each other's backs now.
00:44:48
Speaker
yeah Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Wow. agree. Yeah. Any final thoughts about the episode before we close?
00:44:58
Speaker
Well, I wanted to say there were so many vehicles outside the farm. We had a horse, sports car, we had a quad bike and we had Aaron's banger.
00:45:09
Speaker
They used to be obsessed with crop cro with quad bikes, didn't they? They were always just going around the village on them. Andy separated from one. He probably went to on his wedding on one. Went to his grave on one. he too He's he is alive. he's He's on the run for killing Chrissie and Lawrence, even though he in fact did not kill them.
00:45:28
Speaker
And he's on the run on a quad bike, I hear. He's quadding right over France, which is always where they go with the belief that, turns out accurate belief that the police simply will never track anyone down to France. Wrong way, after all.
00:45:43
Speaker
Yeah, i mean, they can barely be bothered to glance around Emmerdale in France.
Andy on the Run & Emmerdale Drama
00:45:48
Speaker
Do we think he took his quad an on the ferry to France? Oh, I hope so.
00:45:54
Speaker
That'd have be nice, Tudge, wouldn't it? I've taken a quad bike on a ferry before. It is quite cool. Absolutely absurd. Why have you done that? Because I was on a holiday on a Greek island and we had quad bikes and then we got a ferry to a different Greek island and it was really fun. Just like, boop, boop.
00:46:09
Speaker
Gosh, you truly have lived a life. Yeah. You could do it too. I just don't think I've got it in me to take a quad bike on a ferry. Okay.
00:46:21
Speaker
I do know some people who died on a quad bike on a Greek island. So that's, um yeah, it's put me off. Yeah, quite a few of our friendship group were friends with them as well. So we did not tell anybody until we'd got home that we had hired quad bikes. You did this after that happened. Wow. i didn't know that you also knew them. i i didn't, but like a lot of my mutual friends, a lot my friends. Yeah, true. I didn't actually know them, but it was mutual friends situation. Yeah. yeah Gosh, what a small world the Christian world is.
00:46:48
Speaker
I know, but I myself survived the quad bike on a Greek island experience. So delighted. And um I've never been on either a quad bike or a Greek island. Is that true? No, I think I have been on a quad bike, actually. A quad bike.
00:47:06
Speaker
That's how they say Something you want to say? Something you share or comment on it, Lizzie?
00:47:13
Speaker
Wow. Vicious. How they teach you to say it in Oxford. How do you want me to say it? don't know yeah club bank don't i they' drive new scouse i am scouse you know that what do you mean i'm from merseyside no you tell i'm not sure yeah so obvious i'm not sure i do count as scouse but i was i am from merseyside uh but i did leave when i was six hence why i do not sound like ross it's almost as if the liver bird is with us in the call no praise the lord i don't have that accent no offense you've just lost two percent of your audience yeah and like no sorry but i love ross guys come back
00:48:09
Speaker
well it's too late i'm so sorry but well rop katie we barely knew you um we wish you nothing but the best in the afterlife and thank you so much to tamzin for joining us for this special episode tamzin where can people find you online Well, you can find me on Spotify.
Tamsin's Podcast & Topic Range
00:48:28
Speaker
And now I'm on Apple Podcasts as well. So just wherever you get a podcast, you want to listen to someone ramble, laugh, ramble, laugh. And so yeah, it's called Pop Mr. Tam Tam. Obviously you cover Emida, but what else do you cover?
00:48:46
Speaker
I cover, well, it's anything I want to when the time is right. A lot of Neighbours, we've done a Neighbours episode, We've done Neighbours episode, yeah. Yeah. I just called you Si. That's Si. People call me Si. That's okay.
00:49:02
Speaker
I've done some Home and Away ones. We do character deep dives. I've done Outlander. Lots of Doctor Who. Lots of Doctor Who. Yeah. If you like pop culture, you'll find something that you love there, I feel sure. Yeah.
00:49:15
Speaker
yeah and um yeah great that we lizzie and will be back in a couple of weeks to pick up yeah with a lot with a few weeks that we've missed yeah we're gonna be reviewing like a month or something it's gonna be hectic oh my gosh so ceremony and on know oh yeah knows gonna be sitting in for you while you're off it's ready it just yeah that's an episode of revving i suppose yeah here we really get So hopefully nothing significant will happen in the time we're away. we may Or maybe we'll do an emergency podcast, who knows. You say that every episode and then it just kicks off, guys.
00:49:52
Speaker
No, we always think we're finally going to get some respite and then it just goes crazy again. does. And then I guess the final thing we should say is in this episode we're reviewing, was there any farming content?
00:50:03
Speaker
No. Well, then talked about it. There was a horse. There was a horse. And a horse. And there was a farm. I don't think we can put a quad bike down as farming content. All right. Some people do use them for work, not just Greek island leisure, Lizzie. Sorry.
00:50:23
Speaker
Being so well-traveled.
00:50:27
Speaker
Anyway, no farming content to speak of. And certainly they have not reinforced the barns. So here we go. Thanks. Thanks everyone everyone for listening. thanks Thanks for being here. We'll see you all soon. Bye.