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Some History on Mascots
165 Plays2 years ago
If you liked last week's episode, we’re keeping the thematic ball rolling with a conversation on Mascots! (Did you like our spots pun). Where did they come from? Why are they a thing? And why do they have such a distinct look about them? Hint hint, wink wink, it’s capitalism central station. All aboard!
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Transcript
Super Bowl Excitement: Snacks and Commercials
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. Gianna, are you doing anything for this Super Bowl this coming Sunday? You know, I actually may have an invite to a Super Bowl watch party. I just can't say for certain if I'm gonna go.
00:00:22
Speaker
Okay, there you go. Well, hopefully it's a fun time. Well, snacks, which is the best part, right? That's what I'm in for commercials halftime show. Let's go.
00:00:33
Speaker
Yes.
Sports Mascots: History and Significance
00:00:34
Speaker
So while many of you, like us, may be snacking your way through the game, today's Art Pop Talk is about some other defining images of team sports. Yes, indeedy. We're going to be looking at mascots. Where do they come from? Why are they even a thing? And why do they have such a distinct look about them? Hint, hint, wink, wink. Capitalism central. All right, everyone. Let's Art Pop Talk.
00:01:07
Speaker
What up, what up, what up, Gianna. Hey, hey, Bianca, just minutes before, well, like 30 minutes before we logged on to start recording. I happened to be scrolling on Instagram where I just saw the cutest picture of you and Miss Alisa Beth Green from Casey Musgrave's concert. Do tell how did it go? Did you like my Instagram?
00:01:31
Speaker
I did honestly so cute. Such a cute photo.
Sister Dynamics and Astrology: A Virgo Focus
00:01:35
Speaker
Love the outfits. Although one thing I think is super funny and this literally does not pertain to anything that the art pop tarts need. I just need everyone to know that our doctor
00:01:48
Speaker
for our resident doctor also has a sister and I've never met her, but I really think it's funny when like either I exist with like you and Alyssa or like she exists with you and Alyssa. And I like wait for the day where it's the four of us. It's really funny to me. Have you guys ever talked about this? Yeah. That's funny because we do talk about you. We were actually talking about you at the concert because we were talking about sister dynamics and Sarah is a Virgo and I know, I know.
00:02:18
Speaker
So Alyssa was like, I hate Virgos, you know what I mean? She goes, but I love Gianna. And I was like, well, I love Sarah. I don't know that I'm, I guess, enthusiastic enough about kind of horoscopes. I would say I hate a Virgo.
00:02:34
Speaker
But you know, it's sister tension, which is okay. But we do talk about you. I think you and Sarah are a lot alike just in your kind of personalities. And Alyssa and I are both, you know, the older sister. So we have that like, Gianna stole my clothes type of mentality type of thing. But it was Casey Musgraves was fantastic. We had such a fun time, a little trio attending Madison Square Garden.
00:03:00
Speaker
It was just Queen Casey and also something I was thinking about before we recorded is that I mean it wouldn't have mattered what time of year the concert took place in but coming up on Valentine's Day seeing Casey Musgraves the star-crossed show during the month of February because it opens with you know the big heart on the stage and it's beating and then it kind of cracks in half and just this
00:03:28
Speaker
that these ideas about love and heartbreak, I thought were very just looking at kind of the stage presence was kind of fun for things we've been talking about on EBT and, you know, the month of February and just taking in the visuals, I suppose. But it was fantastic.
00:03:46
Speaker
Did you? Ooh, a little sports fun there. Hey, sports fans. Yeah, I don't even know what else to say besides it was pure happiness. It just looked really like on some of the photos and some of the videos you posted, it just looked really like happiness.
00:04:06
Speaker
kind of like a mellow and just like really chill. For the size of the venue, I have never attended a concert that was so not that it was like peaceful, but it was just very like there was like a calming presence to everyone in the audience. Like we were all just like happy to be there. I mean, that was my first concert that I've been to in two years. And to go back into a crowd
00:04:29
Speaker
and just feel so at ease with everyone around you was just so nice. And I mean, it's Casey, so the vibes are definitely chill vibes. But it was very different from other large concerts I've attended. But it was very nice. Yeah, it looked lovely. I did not realize until something came up on my social media,
00:04:53
Speaker
how much she actually really does look like Dolly Parton. There are two people who are written in the same font. If there was ever a time where there was going to be a Dolly Parton movie, I would be very pleased to see Casey Musgraves play her.
00:05:09
Speaker
Yeah, well for Kasey Oki, she did do nine to five. And let me tell you that the life that came alive inside me to hear Kasey Musgrave sing nine to five was exactly what my soul needed. Well, I'm glad it was just like such a wholesome night with Kasey. Yeah, my Kasey merch on right now.
00:05:32
Speaker
Oh, I can't. Super cute. I'll show it to you. Your microphone is like covering your boob. I can't see it. I'll show it to you later. It's really cute. I got some cute merch. Cute. Cute merch.
Women's Art Wednesday Collaboration and Trivia
00:05:41
Speaker
Well, before we get into art news, we wanted to remind everyone about the announcement that at the end of this month of February, we are pairing with Women's Art Wednesday to have an episode on APT.
00:05:58
Speaker
If you don't know who Women's Art Wednesday is, they are a once a week, every week social media account that introduces a woman artist. So we need trivia questions from you on what to ask Women's Art Wednesday on the episode. These can be any questions related to women in art history, women in pop culture,
00:06:19
Speaker
women in general, women we talk about on the podcast, and we are going to quiz them. And in turn, they are also going to quiz us and probably school us in some women's art history. So we need those trivia questions. And with that, Gianna, do you want to get into some art news?
00:06:41
Speaker
yes so for our art news stories for today we are going to talk about Gwyneth Paltrow so really the timing
00:06:53
Speaker
This one took the internet by storm.
Art Controversy: Gwyneth Paltrow's Collection Debate
00:06:57
Speaker
But the timing really worked out with the AD Open Door tour that she did and being on brand with today's art pop talk with her Super Bowl Door Dash commercial, where we got a little teaser of her eating one of her goop candles. So let's first talk about the AD tour and what the whole art scuttlebutt is about.
00:07:20
Speaker
So the magazine featured Paltrow's Dream House in its March issue, and it initially misidentified a wire-shaped dangling sculpture as a piece by Ruth Asawa, which is hanging next to an Ed Ruscha. Just thought I'd let you know. Curiosity about this piece spiked when architecture and design critic Alexandra Lang tweeted first, quote, I'm irrationally angry that Gwyneth has Ruth Asawa.
00:07:48
Speaker
And then when AD retracted its reference to Asawa, she noticed and she then tweeted, quote, y'all, they have edited the photo and remove the caption reference to Asawa. I think this is actually a copy, as many have been saying in my mentions. So the internet did what it did best and it just took this topic by storm and was saying that Gwen
00:08:13
Speaker
had a copy she had a fake she just a lot of different terminology was kind of blown out it may or may not be accurate that this is a copy depending on what side of the art spectrum I guess you're on or how you look at it and we'll talk about that so
00:08:34
Speaker
A reporter from Art News actually reached out to Asawa's estate to find answers, and a spokesperson from the estate said that the piece was either a fake or a copy. And then this reporter put out a tweet saying, just confirmed from Art News, I don't know why Gwyneth Paltrow
00:08:55
Speaker
has a knock-off Asawa, but she does. So we have copy, we have fake, we have knock-off. It just feels like a lot of terminology is being thrown out there.
00:09:08
Speaker
And I would like to think a little bit more critically and discuss this for art news. So we did find the artist. Yes, the artist. So this is not a mass produced supply chain of a sculpture from a gift shop from the Whitney or whatever museum. So this work of art is by an artist from San Francisco, Delisa Krieger created this piece, and it's no surprise that it does look very, very similar to Asawa.
00:09:36
Speaker
So I'm going to actually read a bit for you guys about her and her sculpture studio from her website directly to kind of help put things into perspective.
00:09:46
Speaker
Quote, a lifetime of imagining and creating blossomed into a singular artistic passion 10 years ago when I attended a workshop of wire sculpture. A wire looping workshop was taught by Eiko Kunio, the daughter of Ruth Asawa. I was initially captivated and inspired by the use of the simple looping technique to produce complex large scale hanging sculptures. The unique combination of robust sculptural properties and soft pliable make copper wire a truly fascinating artistic medium.
00:10:15
Speaker
Interlocking wire loops are woven into organic shapes, ranging from elegant singular line forms to complex multi-layered minebenders.
00:10:23
Speaker
My current conceptual explorations and technique develop efforts strive to achieve new levels of intricacy and complexity in a way that visually attracts and invigorates." So Delisa hasn't commented on this art news story, but neither really has architectural digest other than kind of retracting its original error or mistake. However, with all of this aside,
00:10:51
Speaker
We can get into is this a copy? Is this a fake? Is this a knockoff? What exactly is this? I just think the funniest thing to take away from the situation is that did Gwen's people not fact check this before it went public? Like why didn't they just
00:11:11
Speaker
Or I guess for Architectural Digest, how is it that they would have like written these artists in there like Ruth Asawa and Ed Ruscha and then put that out into the world? Like Architectural Digest has not gotten this far in life without fact checks, right? So the thing that people are saying on the internet, you know, it's just doing what it does best and it's running wild with this. And the truth is we only know what we know, but
00:11:38
Speaker
People are saying the only plausible situation is that Gwen told Architectural Digest that this was a Ruth Asawa. And so did she think she accidentally have one or did she just not want to get into it with people? I don't know.
00:11:58
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I'm kind of thinking it was probably just an innocent mistake. I don't think Gwyneth Paltrow is like intentionally telling people she has art that she doesn't. I really think that she just, I think sometimes, I mean, I am speculating a lot here. But you know, if you're a celebrity, and you have that kind of money that or you're on the level of Gwyneth Paltrow, and you just see something because you like it, you know, I know we've talked about that previously, and that could run into, you know, potential problems as far as
00:12:28
Speaker
how the art world functions, but in terms of Gwyneth Paltrow's like honesty here, I don't think she was like trying to, you know, foolish us. You foolish me. You foolish me. I completely agree. And I think the
00:12:43
Speaker
The biggest thing here too is we're a little bit caught up on that, but only because also we're just a little bit stunned that this is a credible artist who's been making this work for a very long time. And truthfully, I've not seen anything like this and I'm not sure that we've talked about this kind of...
00:13:02
Speaker
case study before. So it's really interesting for us. So Bianca, now that we know the artist, and again, she is pretty beloved in her community in San Francisco, I believe somewhere in California, which makes sense.
00:13:17
Speaker
because that is where Gwyneth Patro's home is. And she's also worked in education for 30 years. These may be biased fun facts that I stumbled across, but how do we label this art? Because it's fine if we want to call it a copy, I suppose, but we have to take into consideration that Krieger is not
00:13:36
Speaker
an art criminal making fake Asawas on the dark web. She has been producing this work for a long time and her work has also been publicly accepted by many other home design and news magazines. So the designer that Gwen was working with too, which I forgot her name, but she just did like a whole Instagram post about her and I wonder if she helped pick out some of the
00:14:01
Speaker
like art pieces too in their home, but they didn't talk about that in Architectural Digest. Yeah, I'm not really sure. I mean, I think if anything, this occurrence is might actually be kind of a cool thing for this artist's career. I mean, clearly, there's a lot of buzz circulating. And I hope that it's not negative. Like, I hope that this artist isn't receiving those, you know, you're a fake Ruth Asawa type of thing, because
00:14:30
Speaker
When it comes to items that are trendy for home design, I'm not saying that this artist is just making intentionally kind of like trendy art. Like you said, she's been doing this for 30 plus years or you know, been clearly working for a long time. But yeah, the public finds something that's trendy, inspiration of particular trends, items in that kind of vein are going to continually pop up while that whatever style is trending from whoever. So
00:14:59
Speaker
I think we have to take into account the style that this artist is working in and like maybe Ruth Asawa's art as an artist falls into what is trendy in terms of design right now so you know there's kind of like a convoluted circumstance happening here because of that. I don't know it's complicated but I don't think any of this is necessarily
00:15:22
Speaker
Nothing here is happening maliciously, I suppose. Absolutely. But I think for me, the fascination behind Krieger's success, because I've never really seen anything like this being able to, I guess for lack of better words, piggyback off of another artist's work and then make your living off of it, which is quite interesting, to this kind of visual.
00:15:45
Speaker
extent but also crediting that original artist right and I think what you said Bianca is is kind of right on the nose because I think it's fair to say that Krieger's work is also not that it's not fine art and contemporary art but because it's been featured in so many of these decor magazines these are sculptural works of art that I think are I think I would be fair in assuming that they are being made to also exist in a home too and they're
00:16:14
Speaker
decorative and taken into a different context than Rufus Awa. Yes. Yes. That's a great point. Yes. So much more eloquently put than what I was trying to stand for. No, no, no. You got me there. Yeah. No. Totally. Totally. So OK, guys. Let's put that to rest. And really quick, because sports, Gwen eating her This Smells Like My Vagina candle, Door Dash Teaser commercial just came out.
Goop's Super Bowl Tease: Gwyneth's Commercial
00:16:41
Speaker
We got a little taste of it.
00:16:43
Speaker
No pun intended. So if this is just the teaser, like what other Goop products is she going to eat next? And the level of shock I'd just love for football fans to experience while their scheduled program is interrupted by Gwen eating pussy really makes me happy. Yeah, absolutely. 1000% agree. Yeah, I would love for, you know, hardcore football fans to be influenced by this ad.
00:17:11
Speaker
All right, everybody. Well, I think we should just take a little break. Let's cool down. If you haven't watched the Architectural Digest when Open Door Tour, you should go watch it. Let me know what you think of her indoor spa room. It kind of looks like a torture chamber, but in a chic kind of way. Let me know your thoughts. And we will be right back.
Glamour and Honey Merch Promotion
00:17:34
Speaker
Okay, everyone, we have something very exciting to share with you. If you follow us on social media, you might have seen us share our items from Glamour and Honey. Glamour and Honey partnered with Culture Quota to create a line of merch created for art historians. And you can use code artpoptalk
00:17:52
Speaker
all caps and no spaces for 10% off on your order. I have two glamor and honey sweatshirts right now and I love them so much and also not to mention talk about a great conversation starter. When I wore my Mona sweatshirt out and about the other day, someone stopped me and said, oh, I love Mona and I wasn't expecting her to be that small. So cute because let's face it, once a museum goer discovers that Mona is a tiny little painting that is the first of many startling discoveries to make on their art historical journey.
00:18:21
Speaker
Any other items would also make a fantastic Valentine's Day gift for that special art history lover in your life. So again, you can visit GlamourAndHoney.com for 10% off your order with code artpoptalk. You can find that link to their site in this episode's description or the link on our social media. All right, everyone, welcome back.
The Role of Mascots in Sports and Pop Culture
00:18:44
Speaker
Bianca, are we ready for today's artpop talk? Absolutely.
00:18:51
Speaker
Like we said, we're getting into a little sports talk today because we're looking at maybe some overlooked images, maybe images we don't always think about all the time because they're just there that are integral to sports branding, the mascots. So Bianca, do you have a favorite mascot? I don't know that I have a favorite mascot, but Rumble, the Oklahoma City Thunder mascot is
00:19:18
Speaker
such a cutie. I mean, from as far as a mascot goes, rumble is is very cute. But you know, I think from Oklahoma City, I feel like that's a little bit biased. I think probably the most Oklahoma thing about us is like we have a very strong attachment to bisons. Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. So like rumble, I mean,
00:19:36
Speaker
how cute. But I also want to put this on our Instagram stories this week because I was thinking about pop culture mascots and Gianna and I have a favorite from EZA, the woodchuck. And I was also thinking about when I've been rewatching Hannah Montana and in the first season when
00:19:59
Speaker
Hannah Montana tries out for cheerleading, but she gets the part of the mascot, the pirate mascot instead, and she rides around on like the little bicycle in the gym. So I've been thinking about pop cultural mascots quite a bit this week instead. So, you know, maybe the wood check from EZA is actually my...
00:20:19
Speaker
My favorite one. So Jenna, I was thinking about this. I want to ask you as an artist if you would ever consider designing a mascot or if, you know, maybe not a favorite one, but do you have any mascots that are kind of the most visually enticing to you as a creator?
00:20:39
Speaker
So oh my gosh, I would love to design a mascot. I think that could be so fascinating to do just something so wild with it. You know, I think that we are really limited in thinking that mascots only equate to
00:20:54
Speaker
sports or advertising. At least that's kind of the realm that we most associate with mascots. That's their origin, right? As a concept, creating a being that can take shape in multiple different realms is really interesting. It can live digitally. You can make it into a balloon flow, a graphic image, and it can exist IRL or physically. Yeah. So mascots
00:21:21
Speaker
when used in the real world are of course very performative and very entertaining. That's their purpose. And I just feel like what a unique way to capture someone's attention to the point where I think that power can be used for something good and maybe for something else. So they are very artful. But have we seen a mascot created by an artist that lives in a performative or art realm
00:21:51
Speaker
created to promote something other than commercialism. And I think that we have this idea of costuming and masquerading, but we don't ever put it in terms of the mascot, right? Right. So some mascots that I love in pop culture, in Bianca, in Woodchuck 1 is just
00:22:15
Speaker
everything. I'm gonna put that gif on our on our Instagram this week for sure. Woodchuck, woodchuck, woodchuck. And then he like tries to junk the basketball.
00:22:33
Speaker
Okay, so I also put this is funny because in my notes I put Cinderella story because their whole thing is the fighting frogs and they do that whole skit But I don't actually ever feel like we see a fighting frogs like mascot. I don't think we do Totally, but I can hear her say like let's go fighting frogs like I can totally hear it Yeah, and then like diner girl
00:22:59
Speaker
And so also all-time favorite mascot is Green Man from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia.
00:23:08
Speaker
Excellent, excellent. As far as real sports event goes, I think I'm kind of a sucker for baseball. It really makes me think of my childhood. By the way, I still don't understand how baseball works. I get it, but the way that they keep score, it's weird. I don't actually know how baseball works, but you know what I love about baseball is a cold beer and a Dippin' Nots served to you in an upside down plastic baseball cap.
00:23:38
Speaker
totally and I just really like that it's outside and so during the day they have fireworks sometimes yeah yeah I don't know and I'm talking like a minor league baseball event folks well I've been to some Brewers games when I lived in Milwaukee and that was really fun and now that I'm here in Boston I mean I have to go to a Red Sox game I'm really excited to go to Fenway
00:24:02
Speaker
Yeah, that would be that would be really fun. Yeah. Oh, man. Yeah, that sounds great. I don't know. I think I really do kind of give into the whole wholesome facade of baseball for sure. I definitely do.
00:24:15
Speaker
But for OKC, we had the Red Hawks back in the day, which are now called the Dodgers, which is fucking stupid. And it was a rowdy, the Red Hawk. He was so cool. And then there's also, I guess, the real Green Man, which is Philly fanatic.
00:24:35
Speaker
Which, by the way, is a freaking bird. You know, I believe it. I bipedal, flightless bird with an extendable tongue is how it's described. Of course it's described that way. It's Philadelphia.
00:24:52
Speaker
So, Bianca, I know that you are going to take us through some mascot history, and we will get into this in a little bit, but part of the reason we thought it was good timing to do this episode, aside from the Super Bowl coming up, was to kind of keep some of the same thoughts that we were talking about and thinking about from last week's episode on the whole M&Ms and mini-mouses
00:25:17
Speaker
new appearance to defy gender was the goal, which really just reinforced gender as a concept even more. But in their own right, if we think about it, each one is a mascot for its own franchise. It's very OG. One of the reasons I say it would be cool to do a mascot is because it would
00:25:41
Speaker
be so cool to see something that isn't so limited by human reasoning. Yes. And I may be on this thought process because Neil deGrasse Tyson was talking in this YouTube video about like space and other universes and how aliens wouldn't look like how we think they look. Right. But we're very limited into what
00:26:07
Speaker
other things look like based on human reasoning. And I just feel like that was so applicable to like so many other things. So something like a bird, Philly fanatic is labeled as a he and a lot of times you'll see sports teams that have two mascots. You have your main mascot and then you have its female counterpart.
00:26:29
Speaker
which we will get into later. But I've been fascinated by this idea or question of how in a visual and human world do we create something that we haven't seen or experienced? In terms of a mascot in our society, would something that isn't binary or humanistic translate for purposes of entertainment?
00:26:54
Speaker
If I created a floating blob with no body, no gender, no sex, and communicates differently than a human would, can that be a mascot or not be a mascot? Right. And that's kind of what I want to see in something
00:27:11
Speaker
that isn't a caricature, right? Because that's kind of what we're talking about. When I was kind of going down the rabbit hole and trying to find other examples and going back to M&Ms, how they turn them into little human creatures.
00:27:26
Speaker
something kind of different on the other spectrum. But as far as candy commercial examples go, I was looking at Hershey's Kisses commercials. When you think of their bell shape and their little thin paper top that sticks out of their tinfoil wrapping, someone thought of how that shape would move, how that candy would sound. Instead of simply giving it arms and legs and a face, they brought it to life in a different way. Yeah.
00:27:55
Speaker
That's a really good example, Gianna. I thought that was a really good example, too. Thank you. That's one of my favorite holiday commercials, is the Hershey Kisses bell. I love that commercial. I love that commercial. And it's so sweet and wholesome, and I don't have to think about the Hershey Kisses becoming humanistic in a way. They're just a sweet treat for everyone to enjoy.
00:28:20
Speaker
Right. Exactly. It still sells. It still gets the message across. Makes me want to buy some Hershey Kisses. Well, Jesus Christ. I mean, they're doing fine. Like Hershey Park. I don't know. I was just thinking about that when you brought this up because last Valentine's Day, Andrew took me to the Hershey Chocolate candy store at Hershey Park. And Gianna, I had a fucking field day. I went off in that candy store. It's amazing.
00:28:46
Speaker
They have all the different kisses flavors. They have giant Reese's that you can buy. They've heart shaped everything at Valentine's Day. I got like a strawberry milkshake. It was amazing. Oh, also I have to thank a side note about candy because it's Valentine's Day. Thank Dr. Elizabeth Green for getting me strawberry cheesecake Kit Kats. Aww. And it was great. Love a good flavored Kit Kat. Yeah, so anything.
00:29:16
Speaker
Talk about two snacks. These two were looking like goddamn treats over the weekend. Goodness. I was not well. So, okay, Bianca, can you walk us through a bit of the history behind mascots? Where do they come from? And why do we even use them? Yes, definitely.
Origin of Mascots: From Lucky Charms to Icons
00:29:38
Speaker
So we know what a mascot is at its most basic level when we think about it in terms of today's sports analogy.
00:29:47
Speaker
A mascot is any human, animal, or object thought to bring luck or anything used to represent a group with a common public identity. So schools, sports teams, societies, military units, brand names. They are also used, of course, as fictional representative spokespeople for consumer products. So that's what we already know, right?
00:30:11
Speaker
There is an interesting capacity that mascots have in their existence for that merchandising purpose in particular. However, mascots in the sports realm, or even with the M&Ms fund that we talked about in last week's episode,
00:30:29
Speaker
There's this idea of, of mascots for, quote unquote, goodwill ambassadors to bring goodwill to their community. So when we were thinking about Rumble in Oklahoma City, I mean, how many times did Rumble come to a charity event? You can rent Rumble.
00:30:45
Speaker
to be out in your community for a type of event like that. Pistol Pete from Oklahoma State, you can have Pistol Pete go out to different events. And while they're selling you something a lot of the time, they're also used to promote kind of goodness as well.
00:31:01
Speaker
The word mascot originates from the French term mascot, which means lucky charm. This was used to describe anything that brought luck to a household. The word was first recorded in 1867 and then was popularized by a French composer.
00:31:22
Speaker
The word entered the English language in 1881, and it's derived from the word masco, which also has a meaning to sorcery or witches. Ooh, I love that. Yeah. Before the 19th century, the word mascot was associated with an inanimate object that would most commonly be, you know, a good luck token. There's this example in an article about like a lock of hair or
00:31:51
Speaker
a figurehead on a sailing chip, like these kind of like token images or objects that I mean, everyone has kind of a good luck charm, I suppose. But from then to the present day, the term has been associated with good luck animals, objects and etc.
00:32:07
Speaker
As it turns out, there is a story that's kind of commonly coined about the supposed first mascot here in the United States, when in the 1800s a little boy named Chick who carried bats and ran errands for baseball players became known as the team's good luck charm.
00:32:27
Speaker
According to an 1883 issue of the Sporting Life magazine, quote, And it was exactly those so-called good luck charm qualities, and of course a little superstition, kind of going back to this idea of superstition and witchery, or sorcery,
00:32:49
Speaker
that laid the foundation for what have become these goofy, silly, beloved mascots for different sports leagues all over America.
00:32:58
Speaker
According to an article on mascot history, quote, most of the earliest mascots were either children or animals and were both associated with good luck. It's not entirely clear who or what was the first human, but Chick is widely considered to be the most probable. As far as the first animal, in 1884, an edition of the Cincinnati Inquirer said this in regards to a goat wandering about their baseball team.
00:33:28
Speaker
Quote, the goat was probably looking for some showbills, oyster cans, or some other usually plantable dish for his stomach, but the audience could not see it in that light and thought he was an even better mascot than the old time favorite.
00:33:45
Speaker
mascot with the O-T-T-E spelling. It's entirely possible, however, that the first official mascot may have been Handsome Dan, a bulldog that belonged to a member of a Yale class of 1892. And Handsome Dan remains Yale's mascot today, 18 versions later, in this picture of the original Handsome Dan.
00:34:09
Speaker
It's so cute. It's so cute. I'm not well. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So in last week's episode, Gianna, when you were talking about the Reddit phenomenon of the place, you talked about flags being a symbol of staking identity. And the flag is a symbol that we can really latch on to, to claim something as ours, right? So
00:34:33
Speaker
What we're seeing a little bit with the Olympics to kind of tie that into this conversation as well is that when teams play as part of their countries, rather than the individual teams that we are, we kind of see broken up inside the country itself. There's a sense of pride that one is supposed to take into the account whenever you see your team win in the Olympics. Right. And with merchandising for the Olympics, instead of a mascot, you know, we saw this with skins and we talked about this in the summer games where
00:35:03
Speaker
there's Team USA merch. But in the traditional sense of what we're kind of like talking about with mascots, mascots give their most loyal fans something very tangible and prideful to latch onto, something that shows off their spirit and their support. And mascots are usually something that's very long term, whereas
00:35:25
Speaker
an individual player on a team could get traded or they could leave the team. You know, I remember when the Thunder first came to Oklahoma City, I had a Harden t-shirt. And it's like, well, why did I buy that Harden t-shirt? You know what I mean? Like, why didn't I get a Rumble t-shirt? So mascots are something that's really true and long lasting to a team, kind of like a flag in that sense. Like my Team USA merch, if I bought that from Skims, is
00:35:53
Speaker
always kind of going to be Team USA. It's not like there's some other kind of specific individualized identity associated with that. The first mascot to actually make a career out of
00:36:06
Speaker
being a mascot, was generally thought to be someone named Max Patkin, known as the clown prince of baseball. Patkin happened to be an actual player of baseball first, pitching for the Chicago White Sox minor league team. And the story goes that during World War II, he played on the Navy team and would participate in exhibition games around the country.
00:36:33
Speaker
At one point, he was pitching to New York Yankees Joe DiMaggio at a game in Hawaii. I'm going to quote this article, served up a home run to him. Again, I think I know what that means, but served up language was a little strange for him to me.
00:36:56
Speaker
While DiMaggio was running, all of a sudden Patkin started following him around the bases mocking the way he ran and started making goofy faces. And the crowd supposedly loved it. Patkin turned his impromptu DiMaggio escapade into a nearly five decade career of entertaining baseball crowds.
00:37:21
Speaker
But Patkin didn't really wear a costume, so he performed his shtick in a kind of baseball uniform. So he can definitely lay claim to the title of the first professional mascot that made a career out of doing so. But it wasn't until the 1960s when we first started to see these live costumed dress-up puppets
00:37:46
Speaker
we are familiar with today. And I saw something that also related that to the kind of phenomenon of Jim Henson's career as well, like this idea of a puppeted person walking around as a form of entertainment. Yeah, you know, I thought about that too. I didn't know if it was too on the nose to compare like, Philly Fanatic to like Big Bird after I found out he was a bird. Right, right. But I think there is some
00:38:12
Speaker
some credibility to that that line of thinking. The shift from live costume mascots was spearheaded by actually Major League Baseball's Mr. Met of the New York Mets and Brutus Buckeye of the Ohio State Buckeyes in 1964 and 1965.
00:38:33
Speaker
The idea began to take hold with the debut of the San Diego Padres mascot and the San Diego Chicken, who started out of a radio promotion and launched in 1974. And then soon after that in 1977, the Philly Fanatic was launched as well. So during that time, you start to see a lot of these caricatures as well pop up.
00:38:57
Speaker
So Bianca, since you brought up Mr. Met, it's only fair to talk about Mrs. Met. But before I do, you also have now identified the origin or the behavior behind mascots, which are at its roots
00:39:14
Speaker
are humor and that humor translates to their physical appearances. Mascots are supposed to be funny and entertaining. And historically, women are neither of those things, right? There have been conversations from women who are mascot performers who have felt this kind of discrimination. They were playing male gendered mascots and they were not given the freedom to be funny.
00:39:41
Speaker
in their own way or as a woman, right? You are playing a man caricature, therefore be funny as a man. And the training to be a mascot performer also kind of reinforce those ideas. But because mascots are wrapped up in fandom and how people and children respond to them, we can really see these social dynamics
00:40:05
Speaker
And there are some case studies that I looked at and they were talking about how people respond to women and male characters. Children are more comfortable approaching a female character if given the opportunity. But studies also show that each character, whether it's man or female, will actually target boys more than girls.
Mrs. Met and Gender Roles in Mascots
00:40:32
Speaker
Okay. So let's talk about Mrs. Met because her story is freaking wild. And I got a lot of information from actually local New York and Queens magazines, which was kind of cool. So the Mets actually brought her back in 2013 and officials would not allow a face-to-face interview with the mascot and were type-lipped about her reintroduction.
00:41:02
Speaker
But Mrs. Met was first introduced in the mid 1960s soon after her team's first season and was known then as Lady Met until the 1970s. But both the team mascots were actually phased out in the 1980s. And in 1994, Mr. Met was brought back, but his female counterpart was not. Mrs. Met was next seen in a 2005 commercial
00:41:30
Speaker
with three little Mets. So they started playing into commercialism and capitalism and started playing off this idea in advertisements of their caricatures, having a family. It wasn't until again, 2013 that she returned with the explanation that she had been working as a part-time event planner.
00:41:57
Speaker
and now was ready to return to work full time as her kids were now grown and out of their flushing home.
00:42:09
Speaker
This is real. Like this is like the backstory for Mrs. Met. This is fucking real. So when she did come back in 2013, team officials told fans they could meet her then and she's remained pretty much in the public eye ever since. And she doesn't directly talk to the media.
00:42:31
Speaker
but that kind of got me thinking I'm not sure of any mascots like directly talk to the media most of them don't actually verbally talk um like for here like in Oklahoma City Rumble will go on the news with some of the other like hype crowd team members um but they don't they don't speak right with the introduction of social media though a lot of these mascots do have their own social platform which is kind of interesting so
00:43:00
Speaker
In the 1960s, Mrs. Met was actually a redhead and so now she's a brunette and she's like sporting a more like ponytail. So that's cute. And then Mr. Met remains hairless. And by the way, Mrs. Met's first name is Jan. Just thought you'd want to know. When she did return, she also came back with the slogan of quote, a proud
00:43:26
Speaker
spokeswoman for Metropolitan Hospitality at Citi Field, basically in the catering and events arm of the organization. Thoughts and notions. I don't even know where to begin. First of all, I think it's weird that her slogan is proud spokeswoman.
00:43:46
Speaker
I mean, honestly, I never even hear the word spokeswoman or spokes-man as often as I do just spokes-person. The fact that it's intentionally spokeswoman is just so interesting in the fact that her identity is a baseball. She's doing a real thing. And they, instead of spokes-person, not even like spokes-ball. A spokes-ball.
00:44:16
Speaker
mascot just the way that if she does have any kind of identity and that's been an interesting thing in the digital age I suppose is that if a mascot does have any kind of identity or voice it does take place on social media and there is a another
00:44:37
Speaker
mascot. That is a lady mascot. Yes. And it's for the St. Paul saints. And she's a pig and her name is Madonna. And she's quote the divine swine, the diva of the diamond, the official mascot of the St. Paul saints. Okay.
00:44:58
Speaker
So I stalked her Twitter and, you know, there's things on there that are like, but like, I don't mind. They're just like normal challenges. Kind of like they did a 10 year challenge, kind of like a glow up. And it was like, said something, you know, made a joke about like, oh, my skincare routine. And she's identifiable as a lady mascot. I guess maybe she's pink.
00:45:24
Speaker
but she's also a pig. But her like baseball outfit, she's wearing like a baseball skirt. At least like, I mean, again, I don't really like give a shit. I don't want to like critique about like a woman character wearing like pants or like a skirt. But I will say like, with Mr. and Mrs. Met and their whole family, like they all
00:45:45
Speaker
They look exactly the same except for like Mrs. Met has hair and then like she has her eyelashes. She has her little lady eyelashes. So we know that like she's a girl, right? So like those things are still happening with Mrs. Met. So it's interesting, but Madonna is like one of the
00:46:03
Speaker
only female mascots in the sense that she kind of represents that team entirely, which is interesting. But also with the St. Paul's Saints, I'm a little bit confused because I think there's like an actual pig, like a real animal that they deem. I don't know, guys. I'm really sorry. I was very confused about the St. Paul's Saints pig situation. I think we may have a listener who could
00:46:28
Speaker
shed some light on the situation because she commented on our Instagram and was like, yes, for Madunai here to see APD talk about a Midwestern icon. Slide into our DMs and then we'll talk about it next week. Yes. I also think that this is interesting, just something that I was thinking about in terms of like you were saying, Gianna, there may be a real pig that is kind of like Bucky the Badger from New Girl where they
00:46:57
Speaker
Oh my God, Bucky the Badger. But Bucky, there's a logo of him, but then in that episode of New Girl, Elaine's Big Day, which he was doing, Bucky the Badgers, they have a real badger on the premises. Okay, because if I look up right now, if I Google St. Paul Saint's mascot, it's pork night.
00:47:22
Speaker
That seems odd. And I don't know what that means. And then when I click on other things, it's a picture of a real pig. That is something I was thinking about in terms of other mascots. So when I was Googling random mascots to prepare for this episode, I was thinking about the New England Patriots, because I'm new to Boston trying to figure out, you know, the sports scene here. And the mascot for the
00:47:50
Speaker
Patriots is Pat Patriot but the logo that they use is obviously different from the caricature that dresses up and is present at sporting events. So I was also thinking about this in terms of sports being aggressive and sports teams wanting to convey
00:48:11
Speaker
an aggressive or competitive type of facade, I suppose. So with Pat the Patriot, there's this old logo that they had from 1960, which they use through the 90s, where
00:48:25
Speaker
Pat has this furrowed brow, he looks kind of angry. He's in a Revolutionary War garb that also conveys this idea of a war between the competing team, I suppose. I think there's clearly a battle that's being conveyed with Pat Patriot. Look, I'm not trying to be harsh when I say this, but the mascot that they have on the field looks straight up like Jay Leno.
00:48:55
Speaker
Straight up. This mascot looks like he's on acid. I don't like it. There's something interesting about the mascot and the logo and who gets put on merchandising to sell this identity of the team, something that's ferocious and ready to fight, to win.
00:49:18
Speaker
but then the caricature that appears on the field. So I'm also interested in Maduna as one of the only female mascots. Just with the example that you said, there might be kind of a pig or swine that's maybe a little bit more aggressive in terms of their logo, but on the field, there's this Maduna female identity that is,
00:49:43
Speaker
playful and fun and will kind of engage the crowd in a different way than the competitive spirit Yeah, absolutely. But I think in that case too, it's important to look at we're also talking about two different sports and also just a different cultures between those sports so I can definitely see
00:50:03
Speaker
you know, even with Mrs. Met, we have this whole family. Like we talked about baseball being a very wholesome vibe. Baseball definitely has this kind of like rooted and like American history and identity. And I think we're also like, when you think of like local towns or you're more likely to go, I think, to a minor league
High School Mascot Reflections
00:50:30
Speaker
baseball game than you would any other football event. If you're going to a football event, I equate that more with like your high school team or your college team. But again, that's like, I'm very much an outsider looking in on the situation. You know what I was thinking about Bianca? For our high school, so our mascot was a bulldog, right? Did our bulldog have a name?
00:50:56
Speaker
I have no idea. I don't think it did. But there was a girl bulldog. Right, exactly. But at sports events, she had pearls, right?
00:51:06
Speaker
It was like a pearl. Maybe. And then because she had like a little like sports skirt, like a tennis skirt. So I was thinking about those things. I couldn't really remember. But the same thing goes. And then that got me thinking too, because I'm like, Oh, was there a girl bulldog as you know, the limited high school like sports functions I went to? I was trying to piece them in my head together. I really feel like there's a glitch in the system because when I was trying to find
00:51:35
Speaker
other sports teams that have two mascots. Some of the ones that are like, I don't know, very like pertinent or very like part of that team's identity, like I think spikes and misty their birds for the
00:51:56
Speaker
baseball team of some city. So do it that way you will. But I was thinking that there was like a girl rumble because I have this like image of a bison with like a bow. And when I tried to find pictures of thunder mascots, I couldn't find any other girl bison. And I feel like I'm
00:52:24
Speaker
Either I made this up or I'm going crazy. I feel like it's so real in my head. Yeah, maybe a listener can help us.
00:52:33
Speaker
Let me know, but these like, sometimes he's like, no, right? Or like a rumble let or something. Is this, is this shit that I'm just like, for some reason I really feel like that could be real. I feel like it's true. And like, if you guys are having a hard time with this, finding these like female counterpart mascots that aren't really the face.
00:52:57
Speaker
of this whatever sports team, they were really kind of hard to find and to talk about. And even for like, again, let us know about Madonna, because even like finding information about her was not the easiest. Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah.
00:53:17
Speaker
Um, but I actually really enjoyed this episode. I know this was really fun. I am. I'm actually super fascinated by this topic now. And I kind of feel like we could, I mean, there's so much more obviously that we didn't get into today. So maybe we can do that for another episode because obviously we did not touch on the kind of problematic history that mascots have as well outside of gender, but in terms of race as well, which.
00:53:42
Speaker
Um, I know has been revitalized in current conversation with the Washington football team because they just came out with their new team name or mascot as well, the commander. So, um, something, something to kind of keep up the conversation and maybe get into later, but this was really fun.
00:53:59
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I want to like message all the artists I know who work with like witchcraft and also performative and wearable art and be like, did you know? Did you know? Also, Gianna, maybe this is your time to shine. Maybe APT needs a little mascot and you can we can have like mascot merch and you can design it for APT.
00:54:19
Speaker
I mean, that's interesting though, but if I'm trying- Like a little animated bubble? Right, but that's what I would say, right? The APT mascot would be the bubble, right? If we're pushing the boundaries for what a mascot would be, it wouldn't be David. No, totally not. David's just like there. Right, no. He's just in the background. Yeah, he's a fan. He's a fan. He's a fan. He's a fan. It's the bubble.
00:54:43
Speaker
All right, everyone. Well, we want to remind you that you can send in your questions for trivia with Women's Art Wednesday. You can email them to us at artpoptalk at gmail.com. You could submit them through a DM on social media at artpoptalk. You can comment on some of the posts we'll be bringing up for trivia as well. So please, please send in your questions. And with that, we will talk to you next Tuesday. Bye, everyone. Bye, everyone.
00:55:14
Speaker
Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.