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Episode 702: Raw 702nd Episode Celebration
1.3k Plays23 days ago
It is once again time to get raw on this week's show, and this set of submissions raises the question: Is it raw or just funny?
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Transcript
Introduction and Podcast Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster, or you want to be a podcaster, and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster. They also have hosting options. And you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes, or in the episode description, and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
00:00:49
Speaker
Hello everybody and welcome. To War Rocket Ajax, this is the internet's most explosive comic book and pop culture podcast, and we are your strugglers, your hosts, your parasocial pals. My name is Chris Sims, with me as always is Matt
Fantasy RPG Class Choices
00:01:08
Speaker
Wilson. And if I was in a fantasy RPG world, my class would be sorcerer. Okay. Matt? Ranger, maybe?
00:01:23
Speaker
interesting. That is not the one I would have picked for you. what What would you have picked for me? Well, I picked sorcerer for me. I feel like the obvious choice for either of us is Bart, right? Because we are writers. Yeah. Yeah. We are writers, you have done stand up and improv. I certainly like to have an audience AC was once ah saying, Hey, do you want to go to this party with me? And I was like, No, I don't really like crowds. And she was like, you don't like crowds. You love having an audience. Yeah, I'm the same. I don't like being in a crowd. But I love performing for one. Yeah, you and I enjoy one way communication.
ADHD and Spontaneity
00:02:06
Speaker
That's what we like. ah But
00:02:09
Speaker
I feel like that's the obvious choice. I'm very ah charismatic. I think that's fair to say. I don't think that's copying an ego. ah I'm very charismatic, but I also have ah the ADHD. You know, I can't deal with having to prepare my spells from a spell book. That's not going to work. I'm just going to have to have, I can just do whatever I do whenever. Charisma based spell casting with no preparation. That is what I want. Cause, cause ideally,
00:02:39
Speaker
What I really want us to be able to set things on fire with my mind. You want to be able to rely on your talents. Yes. Yeah. and Although reliable talent is a rogue skill. I was going to say either for you. I was going to say either wizard.
00:02:57
Speaker
because I feel like you would also be interested in magic, but you have a much more intellectual approach to things sometimes than I do. Interesting, interesting. Like I feel like you are very, ah particularly in your writing, like you're very, I'm i'm very figured out when we get there, very loosey goosey with it.
00:03:22
Speaker
I feel like you're very calculated in a good way. I have a game plan. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I was going to say for you wizard, I'm interested to know why you picked ranger. I like to keep a distance. That's my, that's really it. I, uh, I, I would be a, I would want to be a, a ranged attack, have ranged attacks. Uh, and if I'm playing like a, like a video game RPG,
00:03:50
Speaker
That's almost always the kind of character I'm going to choose. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, look, neither one of us is getting up into melee combat. No, no, no, no, thank you. ah art Artificer maybe would be cool for me, but I'm not like a... You did ah you did invent the machine. I did invent the machine, but I'm not i'm not like a tinkerer.
00:04:15
Speaker
generally. I don't build things. so I am interested in learning about things, very much so.
WWE Raw Anniversary and Episode Naming
00:04:23
Speaker
Case in point, Chris, it is time once again to get raw on this week's episode, and you know what that means. I do know what that means. It means that you have opened your Uh, favorite, well, maybe not favorite, but most visited, most visited Wikipedia page. Yeah. List of WWE, WWE Raw special episodes. Yes. Yes. Now it is approaching the Thanksgiving holiday, but we already did a Raw Thanksgiving last year. So I am choosing a different
00:05:11
Speaker
November episode of Raw, marking a special occasion. On November 3rd, 2008, there was the episode, Raw's 800th episode celebration. So we are gonna call this, Raw 702nd episode celebration.
00:05:32
Speaker
yeah
00:05:34
Speaker
That's very funny. That's what we're calling this one. And we are going to take your submissions of the rawest moments in comics a little later in the show. But before we get to that, Chris, we do have some business to take care of.
Patreon Support and Benefits
00:05:47
Speaker
Our first piece of business is thanking our newest supporters over on Patreon. That's right, Matt. No, these people, they've gone all the way down to 702 Gimmick Street. And of course, we we know what's there. Well, your local organizers were at 701.
00:06:07
Speaker
Right? Right. Yes. At 702 is... Right across the street. Right across the street. Is the local shelter where people can get food and assistance? Here's what's funny, Matt, is I have a whiteboard on my desk and on this whiteboard every week,
00:06:32
Speaker
I write what my check is, my rec is, what my opening question is going to be, and then I write what's on gimmick street. ah And sometimes I don't fill all of those out and we gotta wing it. Because again, Sorsa, Lucy Gucci, baby. ah I did write, for 702 gimmick street, your favorite charity. Yeah, yeah. That's what it is. It's not just a shelter. It's in Pateko. It's your favorite charity. It's all of it.
00:07:01
Speaker
Simpatico, baby. That's you and me. And that's right, Matt, while you're going down to your favorite charity, your favorite charitable organization, ah maybe donating your time, maybe just donating a little bit of attention to it, maybe donating a little bit of money, if you have a little bit of money left over, then take that device on which you're listening to this right now, or any other internet connected device that you may own,
00:07:26
Speaker
and direct the web browser to patreon dot.com slash War Rocket Ajax. That's the name of this show. When you're there, you can kick in as little as a dollar a month to help us keep the show going and pay those gimmicks they keep something in the mail called bills. That's right, Chris. I don't have any new names to read this week, but I do want to note that a few existing patrons did bump up their monthly pledge to the show, and we very, very much appreciate that. Thank you for doing that to everyone who has done that. If you are already
00:08:06
Speaker
a member of our Patreon and feel the the inclination to bump up your pledge. ah We encourage that and would love for you to do that. um But you can also become a new member of our Patreon and join. ah We would appreciate that as well. um We are still very much in the in the market for getting to the funny weed number of paid Patreon subscribers. Right now we are at 399.
00:08:40
Speaker
And 21 more will get us there, so you could be one of those 21 to get us back to the funny weed number of paid subscribers on Patreon. Also, let me point out and say once again that if you are are becoming a first-time subscriber to our Patreon, do not do that through the iOS app.
00:09:05
Speaker
Definitely don't do that. Because Apple is going to take a huge chunk of your contribution. um So instead, do it through a browser, either on your laptop or desktop computer. You can also do it on your phone, but make sure you do it on your browser, not in the app from the Apple App Store. they Please and thank you. As a patron, you get every single show that we do completely ad-free. You get this show weekly. You get every story ever specials monthly. You get comics ketchup monthly. You get movie fighters and snack situation. We just recorded our episode about Morbius, which you will all be hearing very soon. Get ready. The the the rare
00:09:57
Speaker
Well, actually, it's I was gonna say it's the rare movie fighters that's much better than the film. That's kind of the premise of the show, though. But it is better than the film. You get all of those shows completely ad-free as a patron.
00:10:12
Speaker
You also support all those shows as a patron us and help us out. As Chris said, you can also, as a patron, get bonus content. That's bonus audio that we do, either outtakes that I cut out from the show or special stuff that we record just for the Patreon. um Those kinds of things are are over there exclusive for that level of the Patreon. There are line stepping privileges for our segments, which currently ah our audience participation segments, which currently include Every Story Ever and Thursday Night Raw, like this week's episode. And ah there are physical rewards over there on the Patreon, like t-shirts. If you want to ah get any of that stuff and be at those levels, Patreon is the place to do that. If you are not able to help us out monetarily, which we understand why that might be a concern of yours,
00:11:08
Speaker
You can help us out in other ways. You can leave us a five-star review on the podcasting app that you use. That would be great. Or ah you can just tell your friends, spread the word about the show. Let folks know that War Rocket HX is a podcast that you like and that we have a Patreon that they can contribute to, which would also be very, very helpful.
Personal Updates and Recommendations
00:11:31
Speaker
With that, Chris, it's time for some checks and recs. What do you say? Let's do it.
00:11:40
Speaker
Chris, what do you have to check in with this week? Well, Matt, as you know, I have been taking comfort in ah these troubled times of ours ah in my ah fifth favorite medium, cinema.
00:11:58
Speaker
I've been watching some more movies. All right, so number one is video games or comics? Number one is comics. Number one is comics. Number two is, I'm sure, is video games. Number two is 100% video games, yes. Number three, music?
00:12:17
Speaker
ah Number three, you know, I wasn't thinking of music, so movies might actually be number six.
00:12:25
Speaker
Well, I don't know. I like movies and and music about the same. Yeah, okay. People can can decide for themselves what three and four are, I guess. no note Number three is ah is ah Star Trek The Next Generation. Okay, so that's separate from television?
00:12:45
Speaker
No, it the i it is television, but it is primarily Star Trek The Next Generation, I think. Fair and fine, okay. Also, DS9. DS9's really good. yeah ah number Number four is prose, novels. Oh, I see. The written word. Yes. The written word, yes. Anyway, yeah movies.
00:13:05
Speaker
oh this Buddy, this is good enough to be a ah recommendation on any episode of the show. This could main event any arena in the country. but It was already a recommendation from you, and I feel like I may actually be the last person to get around to it. ah But I finally watched ah Barbie. Yeah, it's real good. It's real good. Hard watch last week. Yeah, man. oh Kind of a hard watch last week, though. Yeah. Yeah. Good movie, though. Very good movie. I did not expect it to be as adult as it was.
00:13:45
Speaker
like both in terms of the extended joke about ah how I'm going to beat you off, which is very funny. Right. And also subject matter of the film. And also one of the best last lines any movie that I've ever seen has ever had. Yeah. ah Really great all the way through Greta Gerwig just was like, fuck it, let's make a movie.
00:14:14
Speaker
I've been hired to make a movie about Barbie, but I'm going to make a movie. and did like I kind of feel like that's, if you're, if you're the Corpo in charge, that's gotta be what you want, right? I don't think there's any other reason to hire Greta Gerwig. Yeah. I mean, like maybe you thought you were just going to get Little Women, which was, you know, just a straight up really good movie, but You know that if if that's the movie you make, your brand is going to be associated with that and it's going to seem smarter and it's going to be like timeless, right? like it's going to be like That is a movie that's going to be beloved forever. And I feel like that's a smart move on behalf of the Corpos, the rare smart move from the Corpos. Yeah, very rare.
00:15:12
Speaker
Here's, uh, I'm about to spoil something about the movie Barbie for everybody. Um, but here's the, uh, here's the thing that I'm surprised didn't get spoiled for me unless you told me and I forgot. Got a John Cena jump scare, baby. What? What? Yeah. I'm watching that movie and then all of a sudden, rapid do rapid do.
00:15:39
Speaker
Anyway, I really liked it. And if you haven't seen it yet, John Cena's in it. He is, he plays a mermaid, or merman. A merman. Yeah. ah Also, ryan Ryan, like, hey, Margot Robbie's incredible, America for ours is incredible.
00:15:59
Speaker
oh ah Kate McKinnon's incredible, like everybody's incredible in it. I do feel like Ryan Gosling maybe should get an Oscar for the way he says boyfriend, girlfriend, because it's incredible. Well, he's where he's the only person in that movie who got nominated. That's okay. I didn't know that. That's wild. Yeah. Greta Gerwig didn't get nominated and Margot Robbie didn't get nominated. but ryan gesley did Boy, that really proves that movie's point, doesn't it? Sure does. Wow. That's wild.
00:16:37
Speaker
No, mark like i ah the reason I said it that way is because I thought it was like a foregone conclusion, like Margot Robbie's great in it. Like Margot Robbie should get an award. like that That seems obvious to me. Yeah. Beats me, man. Beats me. Beats me why most dudes suck. Matt, what have you been up to this week? Well, I've been enjoying cinema. Well, Chris, I've been Very busy. i have ah By the time the show goes up, I will have already done this improv show, my return to the stage after Hurricane Helene. ah But I've been going to ah rehearsals for that ah for a lot of the week and and staying busy otherwise. But I have been continuing my Star Trek The Next Generation rewatch.
00:17:32
Speaker
And we are currently getting further into season six. We're we're right up to chain of command, would which is next, which might be the best two-parter in the whole show, probably the best two-parter in the whole show. It is. But there is a stretch of episodes in season six that is just banger after banger after banger of Like good fun shit Yeah, man like yeah season season six is like prime next-gen for me So okay, so there's the Scotty episode, which is really fun ah That one is called relics. It's called relics. Yeah There's there's so there's the Scotty episode. It's really fun. The one after that is
00:18:28
Speaker
is a little less good. That's the one that's schisms. That's the one where like crew members are just like randomly being kidnapped off the ship. Oh, the one where they go into the holodeck and it's like, it was darker. Give it a spotlight. Yeah, yeah. It's 10 centimeters longer. A thought I had watching that episode that I would not have had when I saw it when I was, I don't know, eight or however old I would have been.
00:18:57
Speaker
they had to get a different prop for every request they made for like yeah how but how that chair looked different. And I was just thinking about like, I can't imagine a TV show doing that now, like spending the money to have a dozen different props to have the chair change into on the holodeck. But anyway,
00:19:24
Speaker
But then the episode after that is True Q, the one with the teenage girl Q, which is so good. Then the one after that- You mean my favorite Q episode? It's great. Then the one after that is Rascals, the one where a transporter accident makes Captain Picard, Guinan, Ensign Ro, and Keiko into children. Banger. The only reason, the only thing dragging that episode down is the kid who plays Picard.
00:19:54
Speaker
Really? I think he's great. He's not very good. He's when he does the when he goes up to the fringy guy and he's like, I want to see my daddy. That's that's the best. That's his best bit in the episode. um But the what's wild is that they should have gotten Tom Hardy, but they weren't thinking they weren't thinking that far in advance about ah about Star Trek Nemesis. You know what, though, that is the same actor that played his nephew.
00:20:23
Speaker
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. in In the episode where he goes back to to France. Yeah, which I believe is called Brothers. Brothers. The kids who play Guinan and Rowe, though, are so good. that like That kid that they got to play kid Guinan is like the spitting image of Whoopi Goldberg and talks just like her. The Guinan kid is actually very good. She's incredible.
00:20:52
Speaker
Then the episode after that is the Holodeck Western episode, where all the bad guys become Data. A fistful of Data's, banger. That one is top notch. That is the best Holodeck episode. Yeah, yeah. It's not even close, if we're being honest. Like, like like ah Troy insisting that her name is Durango whips the shit out of Moriarty, sorry.
00:21:21
Speaker
say that her name is Dorega, like apparently in the original script for that episode, she was like, like, uh, you know, a singer at the bar or whatever. And I think through conversations with Marina Sartis and stuff, it's like, no, let's make her a bad, the, the, you know, the Ronin. Yeah. Uh, the, the, the, the person with no name and, uh, man, that's so good.
00:21:51
Speaker
And then the one after that is the quality of life, which introduces the exo comps, which became incredibly important in lower decks. Right. Right. I would, I wouldn't give that one banger status, but it is good. It's important. And I do love the ending. Like I love the whole like arc of that episode where like data is like, no, these things are alive and I'm not gonna I'm not gonna sacrifice a life form for another life form. And then Picard tells him at the end, like, that's the most human thing you've ever done. Yeah. It's, it's great. ah So next generation, rewatch continues apace. That's what I've been up to. Yeah, man. ah I feel like season six is the strongest overall season. Like I don't think there's,
00:22:47
Speaker
I really don't think there's one that's like, that's bad in that season. Like Akiel is a pretty, it's another weird Jordy Incel episode, but it's, I mean, it's not bad. It's interesting at least. Fucking tapestry, fucking Starship Mine, fucking, fucking suspicions.
00:23:16
Speaker
It's good shit, man. It's good shit. ah Season 6, Next Generation, good shit. Alright, time for some recommendations. What do you have to recommend, Chris? My recommendation is going to be a little bit abbreviated ah this week because it is a it's a secondhand recommendation. You and me, Matt, we're Nebula people. Yes, that's true. We we we like to watch videos on Nebula.
00:23:44
Speaker
we We signed up to watch this video on Nebula to support these creators, ah because it's mostly a lot of the people that we like. oh And if you are a Nebula subscriber, there is a companion video to the new Jacob Geller video called, Pegal Might Be Too Pure for 2024.
00:24:06
Speaker
ah which is all about the game PEGL. That is not the recommendation. i would i what i I will say that video, which I also watched, reminded me of how I used to play PEGL on my phone all the time when I first got an iPhone. And it got me to redownload what peggle is on iphone now which sucks like it's got all the stupid freemium game garbage that we've all come to expect but peggle is the the the core game is still great that's all i wanted to say
00:24:53
Speaker
Well, in that video, as you know, Matt, he recommends Peglin, yes which is a PEGL, except it's a ah roguelike deck builder with RPG elements. Very right now in in gaming, yeah. And ah in the video, Geller you know is like, uh, is like, wait, no, come back. i I promise this, it's actually good. And he did a good enough job selling me on it that I picked it up. It's a very inexpensive game. It is a very fun time. It's a, it's a fun little game to play. It's got like a lot of, uh, really fun parts to it and a lot of really bad puns.
00:25:38
Speaker
which for me is not like a, that's that's not a mark against it. It's not really a mark for it either, but you know. ah So if you're curious about a full recommendation, go watch that video. Get on Nebula, it's good. ah we've We've recommended Nebula before itself. ah Thanks to Jacob Geller, someone who I trust pretty implicitly on video game recommendations.
00:26:03
Speaker
pe Peglin, it's good. It's on Steam. ah Matt, what is your recommendation this week? It's something I've recommended before, but the final season just started. And if you have not managed to watch it before now... Star Trek, the next generation. You can watch it. It is it is the final season of what we do in the shadows ah just started.
00:26:31
Speaker
ah and I don't think I need to explain what this show is to people. If you haven't heard of it or seen it, ah you certainly, or if you haven't seen it, you've certainly probably heard of it. um But it is it is just a hoot and has never i like really, especially dipped in quality. There have been seasons where it's kind of like taking a weird left turn,
00:27:00
Speaker
um like when Colin Robinson was a child for a while that was weird that was weird it wasn't bad though it was weird it kind of feels like this last season is sort of in some ways going back to the original idea of the show um it's just you know them in the house. i There is a, at least in the first episode of the season, a new guy who shows up who keeps wanting them to be conquerors, you know, more like vampires, and that's just not what they are anymore. um So that's a ah fun and and interesting dynamic. And I don't know, I just like the show and it's and it's fun and enjoyable and a great way to ah laugh for a while in these troubled times.
00:27:54
Speaker
Sit back and laugh for about a half. That's right. As Keaton Iver-Wands used to say. Alright Chris, those are our checks and recs. It's time to talk about some comics.
Comic Book Discussions
00:28:06
Speaker
Let's do it. You know we're going to talk about Absolute Batman number two. ah This is the only comic I had time to read this week. And...
00:28:20
Speaker
I think it's telling that since I had very limited time to read comics this week, this is the one where I was like, I'm not missing it. There's no way I'm not reading that. And it was worth it. It fucking rules. Yeah, it's also the texture choice winner. Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it starts with a text from Benito saying it's got ah the most Scott Snyder thing in it, which is true, but it's a hoot, which is a multi-page narration leading up to the gag of Alfred calling Batman AF.
00:29:04
Speaker
Very good. Yes. the I said that's like two parts badass and one part cringe. And I i stick by that. That's the magic formula, man. It's the fact that he's doing that, like he's, he's, he's burning a building into the bat symbol while that's happening. I think it's a key, key detail.
00:29:30
Speaker
Yeah, man. I'll tell you what got me about it. Cause my text was just like chef's kiss. Mwah. Love it. Uh, that's when Alfred maps out the location of all his bat caves and it makes a big Batman logo on the map. Cause A, I love it. Anytime anything makes a big logo on the map, feed me that shit. Oh, like, like take, take me around the city of London, Jack the Ripper.
00:29:58
Speaker
Explain the whole pentagram to me again. Love it. When Alfred sees that all of his back days make a big Batman logo and he goes, say this about him, he's committed to the bit.
00:30:12
Speaker
I was like, oh, yes, yes, this is, this is what I like. We didn't have a chance to talk about the first issue, but I loved it. I absolutely loved it. I knew I was going to love it. Uh, but I love that.
00:30:29
Speaker
all three absolute books are kind of are operating on the essential premise of what if it was the opposite?
00:30:41
Speaker
what if What if instead of rich Batman was poor? What if instead of being ah like a Kryptonian from Kansas, Superman was just Kryptonian?
00:30:53
Speaker
yeah What if instead of Paradise Island it was Hell Island? but yeah it's It's not quite the opposite, but it's like it's definitely exploring the idea of like what if ah what if these characters were created now? What elements of their origin would we probably strip away? Or or would we not be so invested in, right?
00:31:19
Speaker
and With Batman, it's lionizing a billionaire, right? ah Glenn Mauldin wrote like an interesting bit about like why Batman is rich. Part of it is because the shadow was rich, and part of it is because it is a um you know it's a narrative conceit to explain how he has an auto gyro and can stay up all night. but yeah like that's It makes it increasingly difficult to get behind. Yeah.
00:31:50
Speaker
With Superman, it is the sort of inherent idea that being from a rural place is better for than being from an urban place. With Wonder Woman, it's, you know, what if she was from this idyllic origin?
00:32:17
Speaker
And so it takes away the idyllic origin. Um, and in all three cases, I think it's like cool and makes more sense now. What if Wonder Woman existed in the intercess? What if Wonder Woman had a big ass sword that is basically the dragon slayer sword? Yeah. What if instead of, of giving Wonder Woman a sword and it's like a normal sword like she's had since like 2011, like what if, if we're going to give Wonder Woman a sword, we gave her the fucking Buster sword.
00:32:49
Speaker
Yeah, it's more of the Buster Sword than the Dragon Slayer, I guess, but it either way, it's a huge fucking sword. he Here's the thing about this issue of Absolute Batman, like the first issue established like this Alfred and some of what this Batman is all about, what this version of Bruce is all about.
00:33:10
Speaker
This issue is more about what this version of Bruce is all about, but also is establishing a supporting cast where we see Mayor Gordon with his Marine Corps tattoos. Interesting, because Gordon is traditionally a Navy man. Yeah. Gordon with his Marine Corps tattoos talking to this different version of Bullock and Barbara, who is a cop now. And then we we found out in the first issue that the only parent of Bruce's who died was Thomas. So Martha's still alive. And it is heavily implied here that she's with Jim Gordon.
00:34:02
Speaker
Yeah, i I think it's really interesting to characterize Thomas and Martha Wayne as a teacher and a social worker. Yeah. That is kind of the middle class or like poor version of of what they traditionally are, which is, you know, a doctor and a philanthropist. Like if if Martha in regular continuity had her MSW, I would not be surprised. like that That fits. ah Teacher, different from doctor, but you know not if you assume that Gotham General's a teaching hospital. I just think it's really interesting. I think it's good. He has a stick, and he can use the stick to take his Batman logo off his chest and make it into an ax. That kicks ass. And then in this issue, he has a bunch of shit in his utility belt, one of which can turn
00:34:55
Speaker
what One ah piece of which can turn ah water into hydrochloric acid that burns bad guys? Yeah. Yeah. I do wonder what the explanation is going to be for Batman having access to all this stuff that he has. Yeah, because he does have a monster truck. He has a monster truck, yeah. I think the implication, based on, like,
00:35:26
Speaker
Alfred's like you know recon of him and everything, is that he stole it. He steals it all. He goes and gets a job somewhere and then uses that job to steal stuff from rich people. Now he works for the city government and this issue also has like a big poker game where Batman goes and plays poker with the penguin two-face, the Joker, killer, or not the Joker, but the penguin two-face Killer Croc and the Riddler. And Riddler, yeah. Yeah. because they Because since Batman was four, they all grew up together. Yeah. Wild. ah here I want to know who punched the wall of continuity to make ah Penguin hot and like jacked. Penguin has arms as big as Batman's.
00:36:21
Speaker
I mean, everybody's jacked. Everybody in this comic is jacked. It's a strong group. Gordon has taken everybody to the gun show in that hospital room that he's in. He is, man.
00:36:38
Speaker
All right. That's the only comic I had time to read this week, but Chris, you said you wanted to talk about the new GI Joe number one, which I would like to read. Here's why I don't like bad comics.
00:36:51
Speaker
And I guess I should say, GI General is not a bad comic. But reading this, it's harder for me to think about the Josh Williamson comics that I like, including like recent stuff, like his his Superman stuff I thought was really good, and not think about Dark Crisis. This is by ah Joshua Williamson and Tom Riley, by the way. Yeah. I know, maybe kind of a rough week for me to really get behind the the American government. Maybe Cobra's got a point.
00:37:21
Speaker
this week, but it's, it's difficult for me to get into this and not have in mind the feeling from when we were reading Dark Crisis and we were like, when's the stuff going to happen? Like, like, let's get it going. We open up this issue with like an action sequence that's got like the Joe team, which is Duke, Covergirl, Rock and Roll, Clutch, Stalker, and the Baroness.
00:37:53
Speaker
uh, who was consistently referred to as a war criminal due to the events of, uh, the stories that came out before this that I did not read. That's a solid team. Like that's got, that's got most of the people I really like from GI Joe on it. Stalker, love stalker. They're at beachhead, man. Beachhead means badass. They're jumping out of a plane. They got their jet packs on, they're fighting bad guys. And then it's like, Oh, that was just a training simulation. And I'm like,
00:38:21
Speaker
Okay. I mean, I get it because like the whole thing is like, yeah, if Cobra attacked right now, like we'd lose, we're not ready. And then Cobra attacks. Uh, so I get that, but I'm also like opening it up that way. On the one hand, it's very frustrating because I want stuff to happen on page one. On the other hand, that is how X-Men number one opens. That's true. And if you're gonna, if you're gonna launch a series with a team,
00:38:51
Speaker
I don't, like, X-Men number one is no JLA number one, but it's not bad. Like, it'll tell you who everybody is. I will say this, the pencils in this book, which are, ah Tom Riley did the art and Jordy Belair did the coloring, the pencils are really good.
00:39:12
Speaker
And I say this as someone who really likes Geordie Belair and like read comics this week that I thought Geordie Belair did an amazing job on. ah i I caught up on Absolute Wonder Woman and Geordie Belair colors the shit out of that book. It's amazing. There are choices in here. Like the training sequence is colored to look slightly off register, which is weird. And then there's a scene later on that takes place like in a nightclub And so the panels are done alternately in like entirely in shades of purple and then entirely in shades of gold in like kind of alternating panels. Cause I guess there's flashing, you know, you know, when you're in the club and they got the lights like in John Wick. Yeah, I know exactly what it's like to be in the club. Yeah. you Matt, I can't get you out of the club.
00:40:08
Speaker
and it's like cool I get that as an aesthetic but it also this is gonna sound bad but like I was also reading it being like this looks like a webcomic it's not a bad choice and webcomics aren't you know, bad or lesser than comics. I'm reading this comic on, you know, on an app, but it's, it was very, it's a weird choice to open up the, the series. I did overall like the issue, but I didn't like it as much as I like Larry's GI Joe. I mean, I, I think that's ultimately what it comes down to, right? Like yeah you're comparing it to Larry Hama, which is never going to be a,
00:40:58
Speaker
Nothing's gonna live up to it like the thing about the coloring like I See what you're saying. I also think a limited color palette can be really cool when deployed smartly like it reminds you know the the the Pages where it's just like Gold and and purple and That reminds me of the the Greg Rucka detective run with the Sean Martin bra art where every issue had like a limited color palette where it was like just like two colors. Yeah, and I thought that shit was great. It was such a good like mood establishing thing for a Batman comic. um But I could also see how it might be like jarring
00:41:54
Speaker
in an issue of GI Joe. Well, I think my problem with it that I'm only kind of understanding as I talk about it, because like there's pages in this that are like sequences that are entirely lit by, ah like they're entirely in shades of blue because it's Cobra, like Destro invents the blue laser gun, which is great, by the way. I will say unambiguously, the premise of this book being Destro has invented the blue laser is great.
00:42:20
Speaker
hu ah we We love that. We love that for him. But it's also like the third or fourth style of coloring in this issue. like A lot of the book is like just has like kind of regular coloring, as one would expect. like you know Again,
00:42:41
Speaker
like Well done. It's Jordy Belair. But the off-register stuff for the training sequence, then like flashback sequences that are like sepia tone, then a couple pages of regular coloring, then all the the monochrome palette coloring, it's jarring in a way that I wasn't expecting. It's inconsistent, is I think.
00:43:05
Speaker
the issue, perhaps. Yeah. And again, maybe I have in my mind that, you know, a G.I. Joe comic looks like fucking Herb Drimpy drew it, you know? ah But I do feel like any G.I. Joe that is not G.I. Joe, a real American hero, 300 issues strong, Larry Hama, like kind of has to justify itself. Yeah. And I don't know how good a job this did in that it feels like It really feels like it is a spinoff of the Transformers book, which I don't know if that's the feeling it should have when it should be like the other cornerstone of this universe. Yeah. Partly because that Transformers book is a year in. And a writer and artist's clear creative vision. Yeah.
00:43:57
Speaker
Uh, so yeah. and um Interesting. Maybe, maybe I'm just in a crabby mood and maybe I'm going to revisit this. And again, I didn't dislike the issue. It just didn't, it didn't blow me away. Remember that when Larry came back and he did that issue where you find out there's a giant eyeball underneath the pit and there's a secret pit that's underneath the pit. I want all GI Joe to be that wild.
00:44:29
Speaker
i It didn't live up to your incredibly high standards, the the the which is not just your incredibly high standards. It's that incredibly high standard that Larry has set for GI Joe comics. Yeah. You know what? he They're planning too far ahead. That's the problem. That's it. Yeah. Two pages, baby.
00:44:48
Speaker
Alright, one last book I have not gotten to read yet, but obviously I will read is Amazing Spider-Man number 61. The first issue in the new Joe Kelly run on the book, which I believe has Ed McGinnis art, so at least some art carryover from the Zeb Wells run.
00:45:11
Speaker
but but But Joe Kelly is now now writing the book. and This is a Dr. Doom story, right? this is Starting some Sorcerer's Supreme Dr. Doom stuff. Yes. What happens in this issue? I don't love Joe Kelly like I did in 1998, you know? When he was writing Deadpool? When he was writing Deadpool. Yeah. ah when he created would he Let's be totally honest about Joe Kelly here. He created the character of Deadpool as we know him.
00:45:42
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's that's correct. his His other stuff has never hit me. Like some of it is just bad. Like the Superman stuff I think is bad. but ah Whatever happened to, or what's so funny about Truth, law not, that's the Elvis Costello song. What's so funny about Truth just the American way? That's a bad issue. hu Sorry everybody, I know you all like it. That's a bad issue.
00:46:08
Speaker
i'll i'll I'll tell you that for free. I like Joe Kelly on Spider-Man, I think more than you do, like in the modern day. like he He does some stuff that I think is kind of is good. I like the Joe Kelly brand new day stories, some of them. I can't really remember which ones are the Joe Kelly ones, but I don't remember hating them. I remember liking the Mark Waid and Zeb Wells and dance slot ones more. Yeah. Yeah, same. And I know you didn't love the, like, Joe Kelly fill-ins in the Zeb Wells run, ah but we were both, like, really into that Zeb Wells run. Yeah, but we were apparently the only ones, but yeah. This one, though, has a premise that kinda really got me. Like, it it takes a couple pages to to get into it, but the deal, Matt, is that as the Sorcerer Supreme,
00:47:08
Speaker
Dr. Doom shows up and he's like, uh, yay. Listen, Dr. Strange made this deal with Sidorak, you know, Sidorak from the juggernaut. Uh, my wife makes fun of the way I said the juggernaut.
00:47:23
Speaker
The juggernaut. Yeah. The juggernaut. He's like, yeah, like Dr. Strange had to deal with him where Dr. Strange had to like fight his offspring, his like unstoppable demigods. um And he would always do that himself. And that's inefficient. I'm Dr. Doom. I'm going to be better. So Spider-Man, you're going to fight all these guys. You're going to fight essentially eight juggernauts.
00:47:48
Speaker
and ah And he gives him these ah magic reads that will bring him back to life. So Spider-Man is gonna fight all these guys and die in the process eight times. And that's like, ah that's interesting. I've never seen Spider-Man do that. Like he gives Spider-Man like magic armor and so Spider-Man's running around casting spells and stuff. That's fun.
00:48:16
Speaker
I have that's a Spider-Man story I haven't seen. Yeah, that's kind of a callback to one of the classic Spider-Man stories. But not like directly. It's not going like, hey, I'm doing this because you beat the juggernaut. Oh, I'll release it's not doing that yet.
00:48:33
Speaker
And I hope it doesn't do that, but it's an interesting bit of Dr. Doom being like, who do i need who can I get who's willing to, who's really into self-sacrifice, won't turn down this job ah because people will be in danger ah and who is familiar enough with pain to not give up? Oh, Spider-Man. And it's a really good, it's a really good bit.
00:49:00
Speaker
I think. Some dialogue stuff that I thought was not my favorite, you know, it's Joe Kelly book. but but that's the That's the Joe Kelly Spider-Man stuff that I don't like so much. The Spider-Man humor in the joe kelly but and when Joe Kelly writes him is not for me. Yeah. But it's got a lot of good stuff. It's at least interesting. It's not I don't like it as much as I liked the Zeb Wells stuff, like from Jump Street, which you and I both really loved that first issue. yeah But it's also, I think very smartly for Joe Kelly, it's a very different book than that. By necessity, right? Like, Zeb Wells Spider-Man is not going to be Joe Kelly Spider-Man, and it's going to have a different tone.
00:49:54
Speaker
from from from the get-go. So that makes perfect sense. But like but very I think very consciously going, let's do a weird Dr. Doom story with magic in it that kind of operates on Dr. Doom being the Sorcerer Supreme. And so you get Spider-Man and Dr. Doom have very interesting interactions for characters who don't interact a lot. I'm i'm paging through it now. and i can see that My favorite thing I think I see is that Dr. Doom knows exactly how to manipulate Spider-Man, which is to say, like, hey, I need you to do this job for me. And Spider-Man's like, get lost. And then Dr. Doom is like, all right, then the covenant is going to be broken. And Spider-Man's like, what? What covenant? What are you talking about? Yeah. Yeah. Classic Spidey. Classic Spidey. Yeah, it's an enjoyable issue. Every jumping on point is also a jumping off point. That's true.
00:50:53
Speaker
Reading this issue did make me want to stick with it. At least until... We'll see. Joe? Joe, if you're out there? I know you're not. It's fine. I understand you're a very nice person, if you do happen to listen. And I have nothing against you as a person. Just like... The fake authority was bad. I'm sorry. What, are they the elite? They were bad. There's only one elite I care about.
00:51:22
Speaker
That's right. That's right. And what that they have Kazuchika Okada. Yeah. Put, remove Manchester Black, add Kazuchika Okada, then we've got something. Yeah. You got me? You got me for now. Don't lose me. Don't lose me too. Strong words. And do you know what else ah strong words are an element of?
Ranking 'Raw' Comic Moments
00:51:51
Speaker
Rawness.
00:51:52
Speaker
That's right, Chris. It's time to get raw.
00:52:01
Speaker
Chris, you will remember the last time that we ranked raw moments, we got a new number one. Yes. And that is where we left off by ranking the Skull Knight bursting through the Eclipse. Will anything replace it? Probably not.
00:52:20
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. like this was i think I think everything that I was like, we're not stopping this until this is on the list, is now on the list. Which means potentially, I guess, we're in the last month and a half of Thursday Night Raw, maybe? We could be.
00:52:43
Speaker
we could But we've got some good entries to get through this episode. Our first submission is from Jolene, who says their raw moment when Diamondback murdered Snapdragon. Yeah, i shit was that shit was pretty raw. That shit was pretty raw. What issue of Captain America is for is that from? Oh, I i mean, i I know we talked about it.
00:53:11
Speaker
ah I know we talked about it, but I'm gonna look up what issue it's actually from. What happens is that Snapdragon gets drowned in in a fountain on- That's in- Aem Island. Somewhere in Captain America 387 to 392.
00:53:34
Speaker
Oh, no, wait, sorry. 113, Captain America 413. Captain America 413, yeah. Okay. ah Yeah, it's raw as hell. Yeah, man. Yeah. We've talked about it at length already. ah But like, I think when we read it, we were like, huh, wonder if this might be some kind of fake out? No. The answer is no. Even after reading that entire run, and like, being like, man, I wish Grunewald would have done
00:54:11
Speaker
things like a little differently with Diamondback or done like a little more with Diamondback and maybe like a little less with Ram and Ram's Hot Mom. Like even with that, like I still go back at that and like Diamondback is the the like
00:54:36
Speaker
She's like what that run did, you know? Like obviously we got John Walker in there. Obviously we got, you know, all kinds we we got cats in America being the captain for a little while. But for me, it's like, oh, introducing and developing Diamondback and kind of like putting Diamondback through it was, was a real crowning achievement of that run. Yeah.
00:55:05
Speaker
So I had forgotten about- And also crossbones. I fucking love crossbones. I had forgotten about how a lot of this was staged. So there is a sequence where Diamondback and Snapdragon are fighting by this fountain on Aem Island. This, by the way, this shit's revenge. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Because Snapdragon killed her.
00:55:32
Speaker
Snapdragon threw ah her threw her off the side of a boat and she was legally dead for a little while and then got revived so So this is revenge from Diamondback for sure So Diamondback like does like a full palm strike right on on Snapdragon's face knocks her out in the fountain takes off her mask and wig and And she goes, you still with me? Let's remove that stupid helmet and wig. I want to see your face when you beg me to spare you. Yeah, she hits her with that fucking Jushin Liger palm strike. Then we don't see what happens for a while. Yeah, man. And it's only in the last two panels of the issue where Captain America is thinking to himself,
00:56:31
Speaker
Where are you, Diamond? Did you find the woman you're looking for? Please take care of yourself, lady. Please! Well, that's that's not actually true. If you go back to old pages, we cut back to that sequence in the middle of a fight.
00:56:46
Speaker
And it's Diamondback going, hey, you left me to drown. Oh, that's right. I forgot it. I felt my breath explode from my chest. I felt my lungs filled with water. I felt my heart stop. But I came back. The question is, old chum, can you? That's right. I i forgot that that so sequence of panels was at the bottom of a page. And then we cut back to her just walking out of the fountain.
00:57:13
Speaker
while Snapdragon's body is just floating there. Yeah, man. ah This issue is drawn by Rick Levins, who we did not have the best things to say about when we were reading this run. And even like the panel where Diamondback throws that palm strike is A, there's there's some wild anatomy in that panel. You that you get both boobs and a full ass.
00:57:43
Speaker
but yes it there rick levins was a massive, massive step down from Kieran Dwyer. yeah i I really wish Kieran Dwyer would have continued to draw this. um the I think this is some of the worst art of the run, unfortunately. Yeah. Yes. But that panel where she's coming out of the fountain at the end, that shit's good. That shit's good. That's some good Rick Levin's art. Yeah. That one panel of her coming out of the fountain. Yeah. It's raw, man. It's raw.
00:58:17
Speaker
Yeah, it's good, it's good stuff. I would say, I mean, we've got a solid list. I don't, it it is it is a good rematch because I believe if, I i believe I have this right in between Diamondback, like Snapdragon leaving Diamondback to die and the this revenge fight,
00:58:44
Speaker
Do we get, yeah, the the whole thing where Crossbones kidnaps her. Yeah. And like, essentially like tortures her into ah getting better at fighting happens. Yes. This is like, this is like, this isn't even, I gotta to go back to the old me. This is like, it's the new me. The old Simon back can't come to the phone right now. Yeah. It's, it's the bride. She's, she's kill Bill and, uh,
00:59:14
Speaker
at this point in her story. i i don't I don't know if this is as raw as Magneto fatally attracting Wolverines out of Mantium out of his body. Fair. But I do think it's probably better than American Barbarium wanting his R-E-V-E-N-G-E bang, bang, bang. Interestingly similar. Yeah. Interestingly similar.
00:59:45
Speaker
Is it more or less raw than the shooting the rocket out of the air in Pluto? That's pretty good. That's pretty good. But I do think the fact that like you threw me into the ocean, well, I'm gonna knock your ass into a fountain and we'll see how you like it gives it the edge. Okay. So it's the new number 45.
01:00:07
Speaker
Fucking love Diamondback. Yeah. Yeah. I, I love, how she is presented in that run of Capstone America, but also can't help but be disappointed in the what could have been of it all. you know like it It feels like there are missed opportunities with her throughout the the run. Yeah. Like the the fact that she kind of stops being cool for a little while,
01:00:42
Speaker
that she squares up a little bit? Well, she squares up a little bit, and then she de-squares, but she kills she kills somebody so she can't be Captain America's girlfriend anymore. Yeah. Which sucks. And it especially sucks now that we're in the era where everybody's like, yeah, of course Captain America shot people. Of course Captain America was a soldier who killed people in World War II. Yeah.
01:01:12
Speaker
Uh, here's our next submission. It's from Sean Bell. It's from issue one of World War Hulk by Greg Pak and John Romita Jr. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. That's got some good stuff in it. It is the moment where Hulk tells Black Bolt, I didn't come here for a whisper. I want to hear you scream. That's pretty good. This is pretty good. I, it's just pretty good. The thing is, Matt,
01:01:43
Speaker
I don't remember if this is the start of, or if this is a ah a part of when Black Bolt became Gladiator from the Imperial Guard. Hmm. Cause I feel like since this, a lot of people have whooped Black Bolt's ass.
01:02:13
Speaker
Yeah, I, i but see, I don't think the, okay, two things. One, I don't think the whooping of Black Bolt's ass is necessarily the badass thing here. Black Bolt's just the first one that Holt goes after.
01:02:33
Speaker
Oh, cause he's on the moon. Cause he's on the moon. Right. You gotta to go past the moon. Yeah. Right. So he's like, all right, I'll stop on the moon first and take down black bolt. Cause he was one of those dudes who shot me into space. So let's go get him. And it's that black bolts, like black bolt does the thing that is supposed to be so devastating and Hulk just like
01:03:05
Speaker
powers right through it and comes right back and that panel of Hulk like pounce or that it's it's a full splash page that splash page of Hulk like pouncing on Black Bolt and saying I want to hear I want to hear you scream that's John Romita Jr. at his absolute best it is I mean it's also like the most Dragon Ball shit Yeah. Like Black Bolt doing his thing and like, I do love the way that it is drawn and like the effect and the knocking hold back and gouging that trench through the moon. Uh, and then, you know, turning around to go, uh, back to Adalon, like it's really fucking Dragon Ball. And that is a compliment. Yeah. Yeah. it Like, again, I know that there are people
01:04:04
Speaker
on our Discord, who are, who are JRJ haters, right? I mean, that's fine. Like you can be wrong about stuff. This is the reason, this is the evidence against, this is John Rubino Jr. doing what he does so well. And just make like, there is so much power and energy
01:04:36
Speaker
in that like four pages, you know? Yeah. And he does draw a whole, like this isn't my favorite John Amita Jr. page, but he draws draw a whole like a full ass monster. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Which is pretty great. it's It's good stuff, man. It's good stuff. It's it's raw. i I don't think it's top of the list, but it's but it's good. Yeah. ah Where do you think it compares to Diamondback?
01:05:07
Speaker
I do think there is something to be said. And I don't, I don't know if the list actually supports this, but I think there's something to be said for like, a little bit of surprise, like a little bit of not expecting it when it gets to the most raw stuff. I mean,
01:05:32
Speaker
Look, you expect Batman to to dig his way out of his own grave. You know, first panel of that story, Batman and Robin will never die. Right. Like, you expect that to happen. But I don't think you expect the Skull Knight to crash through the moon. You know, that's a surprise. I don't think you, you definitely don't expect Gordon to give Flass the baseball bat.
01:05:58
Speaker
I have written about, and we have discussed, you don't expect Wolverine to get back up in the sewer, because he'd never done that before. Right. That shit's tight. So I do think there's a little bit something to like, yeah, we know the Hulk's gonna whoop this guy's ass, because it's fucking Black Bolt, so who cares? Right. but i think I think the surprising part of that is just how like,
01:06:27
Speaker
Well, I don't know, I was gonna say how like competent the Hulk is throughout, but we had seen Planet Hulk before this. So it's not even quite like, you know, we hadn't seen this version of Hulk before. So in that sense, no, there's not as much of the element of surprise that there is with even, yeah, like the Diamondback of it all.
01:06:56
Speaker
the diamond back of it all. Yeah. On the subject of Dragon Ball, like I definitely don't think this is as good as Sun Goku punching a hole through Demon King Piccolo's torso. I don't know if it's as good as Batman telling the Mart- very similar to Batman telling the Martians ready when you are. Well, at number 51 is Dr. Strange telling Johnny Storm that God and the Devil are the same thing.
01:07:24
Speaker
That's
01:07:27
Speaker
God and the devil are the same and there is no heaven because heaven is also hell. and it really i Have you thought about that panel every day? I have. I wake up thinking about it. Here's what I so here's what i think.
01:07:44
Speaker
I think it's not as good as Sparky the Dog driving the car into a cop. Correct. But above the Punisher, clank, clank, clank, clank, squitching Dr. Doom. Because that's what the Punisher does, right? That's not surprising either. That is not surprising either. So I think this is the new number 56. That seems correct and right and good.
01:08:10
Speaker
Great pack, pretty good. John Reed Jr. pretty good. Both pretty good, yeah. Next up is a submission from Lou Shoemaker, which is from Spectacular Spider-Man number 142. Spider-Man and Tombstones first ever fight, but especially when Spidey says, you're stronger than I expected, but when push comes to shove, you're just a guy. And then he beats the dog shit out of Tombstone.
01:08:40
Speaker
What a what a dick thing to say Peter What an amazing dick thing to say This is great because it says ah it says on the on the cover action in Atlanta Okay, I did Look but there are people on our discord who don't like John or me to jr. There are people who love the Spider-Man art of Salba Sema, which I cannot get on board with. I'm so sorry. I mean, Salba Sema's not bad. If there's one thing that really drags this issue down for me, it's it's the heart.
01:09:31
Speaker
it's it's very it's very It's very old school. It's very workman-like. It's, but consider that, you know, this is from 1988, right? Consider the work that, like, Frank Miller was doing by then, five years before he got lost in the Bermuda Triangle. I mean, yeah, like, this is, I mean, this is a, I mean,
01:10:03
Speaker
This is a post George Perez, post Frank Miller world we're living in. Okay, so they're fighting like on a at a construction site, like in the girders of this building. And Tombstone is like, you know, beating him up pretty bad. He's got like a ah metal pole that he's beating up Spider-Man with.
01:10:25
Speaker
And Spider-Man says, I'll admit you caught me off guard. You're stronger and faster than I expected. But when push comes to shove, you're just a guy. You're just a guy. And then he does proceed to whip Tombstone's ass. Yeah, he whips Tombstone's ass. He does unfortunately beat him like Bugs Bunny. Salba Salba. But I mean like that's...
01:10:50
Speaker
He stands, but who who wrote this issue? Uh, I, I don't know. I don't see it in the credits. So I'll have to look. Um, but like, yeah he, he definitely stands in front of a girder and then just lets tombstone smash himself into it. Yeah. Like it's not, uh, like it would have been better if he had just beaten, like beating the shit out of him, you know, Jerry Conway.
01:11:19
Speaker
Yeah. Like you can't blame the staging of that fight. Well, unless they did it Marvel style on, on Mary, Jerry, friend of the show, friend of the show, Jerry Conway. That's right. Uh, Jerry Conway may be legitimately the most excited we've ever been to have someone on the show. It's up there, up there for sure. Oh, and then, and then tombstone falls into a truck full of wet cement.
01:11:49
Speaker
that ah that is also very Bugs Bunny-like. Yeah, he does a he does a full, well Spider-Man drops him yeah into it. Spider-Man actually, ah hey Jerry? Tombstone falls off, gets punched off this skyscraper and Spider-Man snags him by the ankle with a web line. Hey Jerry?
01:12:16
Speaker
You know you wrote another comic where Spider-Man did that to somebody, right? Jerry? This, this web line wraps around his whole foot though. Tombstone's whole foot. I don't think the foot was the problem, Mac. This is pretty good, but I think there are a lot of elements about it where it could be better.
01:12:46
Speaker
You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. Like it's, I think there are, I think there are a lot of examples of Spider-Man kind of snapping and going like, Hey, you're just a dude. I'm fucking Spider-Man and beating the shit out of somebody that are better than this. Like that happens in, in amazing 33. Yeah. Yeah. Like, and, and I think that's better than this.
01:13:18
Speaker
Because there are examples that I can think of off the top of my head, I don't know if this makes the list. I think that's fair. I think people are really trying to... Still making Spider-Man take out the rose is more raw than this, I think. Yeah. I think people are really trying to get us to rep for the Salba Sema era of Spectacular Spider-Man.
01:13:48
Speaker
And I understand that, and I get that. I i get what you what you want from us. But I have to say, my take on so much of those comics are that they are mid.
01:14:09
Speaker
it I mean, look, I don't think there's anything wrong with Sal Buscemi's art on Spider-Man. but there's nothing right with it either. There's so many artists that are so much better. It's a, it's a five out of 10 for me. It's a C plus. i i I might give it like a six or seven, but, but there are artists, contemporaries who were doing, you know, eight, nine, 10 out of 10, like,
01:14:46
Speaker
On the other book, concurrent to this one, Todd McFarlane is redefining what Spider-Man looks like. Yeah, like I was gonna say, 88, if Todd's not there already. Yeah. like
01:14:59
Speaker
Like... I don't know, man. I don't know if this makes the list. There's just so much better. I would be perfectly fine not putting it on the list, which... I i hate to do it because I think you could make a case for it. Yeah.
01:15:17
Speaker
what What Peter says is cool, which is you're just a guy. yeah That is that is and undeniably cool. it's ah It's very cool and it's like a real dick thing to say, which is fun. But the staging and presentation of the fight is just not not on the level of the other stuff we've got we've got here. I don't think.
01:15:44
Speaker
So here's our next- It ain't the school night. Boy, boy. Here is our next submission from Ryan Beelich. It is from Infinity Number Four by Jonathan Hickman and Jerome Opena in which Thor is sent to surrender to the builders.
01:16:09
Speaker
ah I have not read this comic. Yeah, this is, we've got to save this for Hickmania. Oh man, I forgot we had already decided that Hickmania was going to be running wild. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Hickmania is coming. Oh, that's exciting. Hickmania is going to be a good time. Hickmania will get get us through these difficult times.
01:16:36
Speaker
ah So Ryan, ah hold tight on that one and we'll get back to you.
01:16:44
Speaker
All right, here is our next submission from Patrick O'Duffy. The ball start. What issue of fate or do I need to look up, Matt? Okay, um not one, but you're not so far off the mark. m Patrick writes, this is a bit of a mid-90s DC deep cut. Shocking, I know.
01:17:07
Speaker
Uh-huh. But I want to submit green arrow number 86, in which Oliver Queen goes full Lorenzo Lamas, strangles an albino alligator in a swamp, bites the head off a snake, uses its skin to make a bowstring, and then stomps off to kill a Cajun crime lord. Drawn by Jiv Oparo. Shit, that does sound good. What is your number, is that? It is green arrow number 86.
01:17:33
Speaker
Okay, so this is about a year before for Oliver Queen would would pass away. That's right, yeah. And be be replaced with Connor? Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, oh, oh, Matt. Matt. Matt. Patrick. Patrick. You said Jim Apparo drew this.
01:17:57
Speaker
Incorrect, my friend. i this is what This is what Patrick said, is that it was drawn by ji opero ah Jim Jim Oparo did the finishes working with layouts by the talent Jim Ballant. You kid. Oh, man. Nah, buddy. This is Doug Monch, Jim Ballant, and Jim Oparo. Wow. Wow-wha.
01:18:25
Speaker
layouts by by got Gotta get Jim on those layouts so that we can, so that Apparo can finish it in a timely fashion. This has fucking Jim Ballant Catwoman on the cover. It does. That's gotta be, that's gotta to be why. But that doesn't like, no, that's a Jim Ballant. No, that's not a Jim Ballant cover. I don't know. Oh, it's ah it's Norton, whoever. Yeah, know it's signed.
01:18:55
Speaker
Yeah. I have not read this issue. That sounds pretty good. I mean, I don't know that we need it in context to say whether it's raw or not. Necessarily. You said 80. Wait, you said 86, right? That is what, uh, that is what Patrick said. He is not wrestling an alligator in this. Yeah. I don't. Hmm.
01:19:26
Speaker
I don't know what issue this is actually from. Oh, Patrick. Patrick? You're going to you're gonna have to give us more info. Maybe it's 87. Let's see if it's 87. Well, 87, he does go. At the end of 86, he says he's going to go to Naldan's because he's very excited about going to where ah Aaron Neville and the Saints are.
01:19:53
Speaker
it isn't It's an 87. It's not an 86. This is a different writer, but it's Jim Iparo. Kevin Dooley wrote this one. ah see Kevin Dooley sounds like a like a an Alan Smithy. Boy, there he is. A pseudonym, yeah. Okay, this one's all Jim Iparo then. Yeah, yeah, he does. Okay, so I do like the phrase, goes full Lorenzo Lamas. That's fun.
01:20:22
Speaker
Yeah. we love it We love and respect the renegade in this house. Okay, so this crime boss, this this New Orleans crime boss, who looks like the warden from that one episode of Batman the Animated Series where Bruce Wayne forgets that he's Batman. The Forgotten. The Forgotten. An episode that I love. Same. Great music. Incredible music in that episode. Incredible music. Cool hand Bruce, man. That was great. Now, where did you say he was?
01:20:53
Speaker
Uh, the Bayou, New Orleans. Right. There we go. Uh, so and this guy's name is Lamaro. He ties up Oliver Queen to a tree in the swamp and this albino alligator starts approaching and Oliver Queen's like, come and get me, dammit. Come on. I did. He does proceed to fight this alligator.
01:21:23
Speaker
It does that thing where they're fighting on the surface of the water and then they go under the water for several panels. And then only Oliver Queen comes back out. And he says, are there's a there's a narration box that says, I only needed one good reason, Lamoureux, you've given me lots. This is such a great value.
01:21:52
Speaker
Uh, uh, you've taken your best shot. Now it's my turn. It really is. This is store brand all the way down. I do kind of love it. Child prostitution, slavery, murder. And you think you're just going to get away with it. Don't you? You think you're safe. You think that you're special. As he's doing this, he is grabbing a snake and biting it in half. Yeah, I would say he's not.
01:22:20
Speaker
He's not going full Lorenzo Lamas. He's going full Jean-Claude Van Damme. It is very ah hard target of him here. Because you think justice is a county judge you've got yeah incriminating pictures of. You think it's a sheriff who's afraid of you. You think justice is something that could be bought, blackmailed, killed. You're wrong, Lamoureux.
01:22:45
Speaker
Justice is an arrow. And as he's saying this, he's making a he's making a bow and arrow and shooting a butterfly. What that butterfly do, man? What did i mean what that snake do? He was hungry. He was hungry. yeah What he's got is full naked snake. Snake eater. Oh, man. Gonna do some CQC.
01:23:15
Speaker
This is, this is so direct to video. It's, I do kind of love it. Or it's very syndicated action television, right? Which is, I mean, shit, we've talked about loving, but like where Patrick is correct about him going Lorenzo Lamas is the sort of like renegade level of quality of it.
01:23:44
Speaker
Maybe so. it is It is very late night TV. Um, we should note, Ollie Queen does fucking kill that guy. Later in the issue. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, like he shows up, justice is an arrow, he shoots that man in the heart. And then walks out into the sunset. He sure does. Damn. Splore, like no sound effect even, just like arrow right in his heart. And that's it.
01:24:14
Speaker
he's He's cold-blooded about it, too. yeah No emotion. That guy's got two different colored eyes. There's a panel of his eyes rolling back in his head, and one is brown and one is blue. Yeah, he's he's got that throughout the ah the whole issue. He's got heterochromia, Matt. It's a very groovy mutation. It's a very groovy mutation, yeah.
01:24:35
Speaker
then i wrote ro leva roll
01:24:44
Speaker
this never wrote that That might be the new, that might be the new, oh my brother, my brother Ben. He's dead, my brother.
01:24:56
Speaker
Oh. ah Which one is the one where Van Dam punches the snake? It's not hard target. That's hard target. but Is it hard target? I'm pretty sure it is. I think it's I think it might be a different one.
01:25:11
Speaker
i It's gotta be hard target, cause that's the one where he plays Chance Boudreaux. No, he oh it is hard target. Okay, it is hard target. All right. Nevermind. Hey, let's do hard target for movie fighters. I would. Let's do it. Fuck, I would. I mean, I think we gotta do a Christmas movie in December, but like. ah Yeah, hard target can be a Christmas movie, Matt.
01:25:39
Speaker
in your heart. What? It's our gift to ourselves.
01:25:45
Speaker
I'm talking about Jean-Claude Van Damme, Lance Hendrickson, John Woo, Dark Man 2, the return of Durant's own Arnold Boslue, directed by John Woo, Yancey Butler, The Witchblade is in this. Yeah, Witchblade herself, ma'am. Wow.
01:26:06
Speaker
Okay, does this go on the list? Does this Great Value version of You Had Your Chance Now Is My Turn go on the list? I mean... Justice is an arrow.
01:26:25
Speaker
it's It's more raw. Is it raw or is it just funny? that's I think that's the question. Are you reading this and actually being like, that rules? Are you reading this and you're like, that's hilarious? I have no doubt that that Patrick was reading it this and going that rules. i mean if i read this If I had read this upon release, I might have said that rules.
01:27:01
Speaker
It is worth very much worth noting that this issue was published in 1994, in the spring of 1994, and Hard Target came out in August of 1993. Yeah, man. if you were writing If you were writing comics in the late 80s and early 90s,
01:27:31
Speaker
and you had a membership to a video store, you were set. You were, no kidding. Mike Barron, like that's, Mike Barron did 60 issues of Punisher like that. He wrote that book for five years and every issue was like, this is, this is the issue that is stone cold. Starring Brian Bosworth. Right. This is the issue that's class of 1984. I don't know, like, I don't know.
01:28:03
Speaker
um It's a very good question to ask. Is this raw or just funny? Because there is a fine line. Because we've talked about it before. Most raw moments do make you laugh. Yes. They delight you. there Yes. Is this raw or is it just funny? It might just be funny. Yeah. I i am only going to do this. Nobody else asked for this.
01:28:34
Speaker
but But Patrick's a good guy. He's the boss dog. I am going to allow Patrick, if he chooses, to appeal the decision. Okay. But I think we are deciding that this is not raw, it's just funny. That is our decision for now. Not raw, just funny. Yeah. Alright, we're gonna take one more.
01:29:02
Speaker
This one is from Ryan Clark. You know, it's been a while since we've done disqualifications, which we've always said was gonna be a key component of this segment. It does have to meet a certain, but like, I'm looking at the bottom of the list, we got 83 things on the list. I think we might drop everything under the 75 mark, which is Aztec sacrificing himself to blow up McGinn in the anti-sun.
01:29:31
Speaker
That's how tight this list gotta be. I understand. I understand. All right, here's our last submission. It's from Ryan Clark. It's from Batman number 599 by Ed Brubaker and Scott McDaniel. It is from Bruce Wayne Murderer. This is part of the Bruce Wayne Murderer storyline. You didn't have to tell me that, man. In which Bruce is in jail. Bruce is in prison.
01:30:01
Speaker
Oh yeah, I know exactly what moment this is. And some Nazis are fucking with him in prison and he whips their asses. He beats the absolute dog shit out of these men. He knocks teeth out. He smashes ah a sink.
01:30:23
Speaker
He goes hog wild on these guys. Scott McDaniel is not my favorite artist. Yeah. And he is a better Nightwing artist than he was a Batman artist. His action can be kind of weird and hard to follow sometimes. A little too abstract. Yeah. And he was not a good fit for Ed Brubaker as a writer.
01:30:51
Speaker
I think that is obvious just from the style of Edward Baker's writing and the style of Scott McDaniels' art. When he draws Bruce Wayne chucking this man into a porcelain sink teeth first and the sink shatters, I remember reading that in the fucking car. My mom was driving me home from the comic book store. Wait, no.
01:31:17
Speaker
Couldn't have been that, it couldn't have been my mom driving me home from the complex door because this was after, this was Bruce Wayne murders, this was like 2003. I must have been in the store reading it. You would have had your license by this point, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I must have been in the store reading it because I know I wasn't home because I made a noise. And I made that, oh, that goddamn, like the fucking shoving the man face first and shattering the, the porcelain sink. And then like that guy just like hangs there for a bit. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's a panel where Bruce Wayne after he like whips these three dudes ass where that dude is just like that, that the sink is part of his face now. Uh, I think reading the caption boxes in this sequence is important.
01:32:13
Speaker
The cell doors of my three Aryan friends slide open 15 minutes before lights out. The guard having been paid off during lunch. In my cell though, it's been lights out for a while now. And in that panel, we see that his light bulb has been broken in his cell. And the last pieces of my mask are lost in the darkness with me. I take my time because I can. Because they have- That shit. That shit does it.
01:32:45
Speaker
Because they have no idea what they've walked into. They think Bruce Wayne should be on his knees begging for mercy. On his knees in an alley. On his knees in his parents' blood. Always weak. But right now, for these short, sharp moments in this dark cell, there there is no Bruce Wayne. Yeah, man. That's badass. Yeah, man. Those dudes came to fight Bruce Wayne. They didn't expect the Batman of Ziranar.
01:33:13
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, that's what they fucking got pretty much. He like he turned Bruce Wayne off. that That full page splash of Bruce just standing there over their shattered bodies, looking like a man who like has nothing to lose is goddamn.
01:33:37
Speaker
yeah That shit rules. Yeah. 2002 is when this was coming out, by the way. It's, it's a real, like you didn't know what you were getting into, which is another good component of a raw moment. Yeah. And, and you know, if Bruce Wayne is going to get into a fight in prison with anybody, like skinheads is the way to go. Uh, cause boy, is it satisfying to see them get their fucking teeth knocked out and get their noses exploded with back elbows.
01:34:15
Speaker
the the This is maybe the best sequence Scott McDaniel drew in this run of Batman. I would agree because he's on it like he's on it in fucking 2000 when Larry Hama's writing it and it's bad. but Orca the whale woman. Orca the whale woman. He draws that one and like the art in that is bad. Like there's that panel of Batman standing on the dock where he's like,
01:34:39
Speaker
not aligned with any surfaces in the rest of the panel and also looks like he's like pelvic thrusting. Uh-huh. Uh, but this is like maybe the best, the best sequence he drew in a like two year run on Batman. And it's
Raw vs Cool Moments and Ranking System
01:34:59
Speaker
boy, he beats the, he, the shot of him knocking that dude's teeth out. It's so good. It's good. It's so good.
01:35:08
Speaker
Yeah. Uh, he does, he does hit the fucking Judas effect on that one guy. No, no, no shit. It's it. He crunches that dude's face. Yeah. Uh, I love it. It's like, yeah, that shit's raw, man. That, that shit's raw. Yeah. That shit's raw. Yeah, man. I mean, I would say that that's going to go. That's, that's gotta go.
01:35:41
Speaker
Does that go above Diamondback? Diamondback does drown someone while talking shit to them. i don that's a good that's That's a good question. I don't know that it's quite there, but it's in the neighborhood for sure. Yeah.
01:35:57
Speaker
I think it's i i that's also probably better than Gesekt shooting the rocket. Okay. Because that's more cool than raw. It is raw, but it's more cool. It's it's cool and raw, ah but but probably a little higher on the cool scale than the raw scale, yeah. Yeah. it's it's It would rank higher on the coolometer than on the raw meter.
01:36:26
Speaker
Marvel's raw-ometer. The meat-cool-ometer?
01:36:35
Speaker
All right. So where's this going? The new number... I think it's the new number 46. 46. So right under Diamondback. Yeah. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. I think that's a great showing for Scott McDaniel. Yeah.
01:36:56
Speaker
the artist of the work of the whale woman story. The co-creator of work of the whale woman. Yeah.
01:37:03
Speaker
it this This is like 20 issues after that. And Scott McDaniel is doing such a better job already. I mean, look, Larry wouldn't turn him into his best work. That's fair. yeah I don't blame anybody else for also not turning in their best work. Sure.
Audience Engagement and Closing Remarks
01:37:24
Speaker
All right, um that's going to have to do it for this Raw 702nd episode celebration. If you would like to send us a submission for Thursday Night Raw, which may be coming to an end fairly soon, o could be ah then send it to us at our email address, which is warrocketpodcast.gmail dot.com. You can also send listener questions there and every story ever lists.
01:37:53
Speaker
and other correspondence about perhaps sponsoring the show or getting in touch about any other thing that you might want to get in touch with us about. You can also send us listener questions on Tumblr at warrocketpodcast.tumblr dot.com. We're on Blue Sky at warrocketajax.com on Blue Sky. That's right, nomore.bsky.social in the handle.
01:38:20
Speaker
I have changed our handle to just warrocketajax.com on Blue Sky. So that's where you can follow us on Blue Sky. You can also join our Discord. Just ask us for an invitation to the Discord on any of the places I just mentioned or on our Patreon. And we will send you an invitation and you can join that community of War Rocket Ajax listeners, which is a very good place to hang out and chat and and have a good time.
01:38:51
Speaker
Our website is warrockitajax.com. It has every episode of the show we have ever done. Warrockitwiki.com is the fan-run repository of all the information you could ever need about this show, Warrockitajax, so go check that out. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net. That has links to my books, my comics, my other podcasts, and my social medias. It is also now my Blue Sky handle. ah No more .bsky.social for me either. It's just MattDWilson.net on BlueSky. Chris, what can everybody find you? Should I get rid of the BSky.social? I don't really care. If you want, i I don't know how much I cared about it, but I just did it.
01:39:38
Speaker
But you could be theisb.com. um Well, i'd I'd have to be the-isb.com. Oh, that's right, yeah. it's It's whatever your website is. You can make that your handle. All right, well, ah maybe I'll do that. And that website is the-isp.com ah where you can find ah links to things that I do and a couple of things that you can read. We're coming on a second one. It'll get done when it gets done. um yeah Thank you for supporting the show. ah Thank you for supporting the show. Thank you for listening. We will be back next week with another good time. That's right. For another little bit.
01:40:19
Speaker
And until then, thanks for listening. We'll see you soon. And do not forget, Black Lives Matter. Trans rights are human rights. As are abortion rights. Drag is not a crime. And cops aren't your friends. But we love you. We love you.