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An Artpop Talk with Dan Lynh Pham
116 Plays3 years ago
Howdy Y’all! This week we have an Artpop Talk with artist Dan Lynh Pham! Join us as we discuss Pham’s work, which focuses on her ongoing fascination with her identity, socialization, and the construction of culture. She aims to redefine what it means to be an Asian American woman.
In art news this week we also talk about the two-year closure of the National Museum of Women in the Arts, and the firing of of 27 employees from the National Gallery.
For all of Artpop Talk's resources, click HERE.
For Dan Lynh Pham's Instagram, click HERE. And you can visit her store at https://stillmill.store.
For the PBS documentary, Asian Americans, click HERE.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Art Pop Talk Podcast
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. Today we have an Art Pop Talk with Danlyn Phan, a Vietnamese artist and illustrator working in the Tulsa area.
00:00:14
Speaker
We cannot wait for you all to listen to this interview. Dan is fantastic.
National Museum for Women in the Arts Renovation
00:00:19
Speaker
But before we get into that, we actually have an important art news story to cover, which is the two year closing of the National Museum for Women in the Arts. Let's do it. Hey, hey,
Personal Updates and Lighthearted Banter
00:00:35
Speaker
hey. Gianna is sporting a cute little new haircut today.
00:00:39
Speaker
Oh yeah. She got the infamous curtain bangs because she's bored. It looks good. I love it. Yeah. I like them too. How are you, my dear? Um, I'm doing well. Not too much to report. Boy of APT graduated with a master's degree this weekend. So he did. Yay. Good job Andrew. I heard other Boy of APT is going into a grad program as well.
00:01:06
Speaker
Yes, Theban was accepted into OU's NBA program, so he'll be doing that starting in the fall, which is really exciting. Yay! Making moves!
00:01:20
Speaker
Oh, yeah.
Celebrity Gossip: Ariana Grande's Secret Wedding
00:01:23
Speaker
So before we get into our art news today, and our amazing interview with artist Danlin Pham, Jenna, there were a few pop stories that I just thought we needed to cover quickly, which is that Ariana Grande surprisingly got married. Yes. How do we feel about it? You and I just haven't talked about it yet. So I just thought I might as well get your take on this podcast that we do. Yeah, I'm
00:01:49
Speaker
excited for her that it was kind of in secretive or incognito event for them. I hope it was what they wanted. I'm sure we're going to get more information about it soon. We haven't had any photos or any kind of
00:02:05
Speaker
interaction with her on social media about it. So I've been waiting for that to drop. But yeah, it's good for her. That's awesome. Did you hear that they had like, they were covering up any type of sound with just like bird noises over speakers so that no paparazzi could possibly get an inclination as to what was happening.
00:02:23
Speaker
No. I haven't heard anything about it, so they got married at her house. Yes, that's my understanding, yeah. Interesting. I guess that's not smart, it's just kind of creepy. I don't know, it reminded me of like the Hunger Games or something. I was like, okay, like, I don't know, Jammajays, some of the speakers. Yeah, that's interesting. That makes me very concerned about paparazzi, because what, are they bugging her house, or was it, did they get married outside?
00:02:53
Speaker
I don't know. I don't know. And maybe it's that there were just a bunch of people, not a bunch of people, you know, a smaller wedding, but that there were characters showing up, I guess, and they didn't want anyone possibly knowing what was happening or overhearing. So I don't know. I thought that was interesting.
Seth Rogen's Autobiography and Films
00:03:11
Speaker
That is very interesting.
00:03:13
Speaker
Also on Sunday, Lady Gaga made a surprise in-person appearance in West Hollywood, and local officials officially granted her the key to the city, declaring May 23rd, Born This Way Day.
00:03:27
Speaker
And it also coincided with the 10 year anniversary of obviously the Born This Way album. So I thought that was cute. I was happy to see Miss Gaga out and about. And that makes me excited for Chromatica. I was listening to it this weekend, which was also the year release of Rain On Me. And I thought of you. And I missed our recording session that we did in your old house. It did in fact.
00:03:54
Speaker
Great on me. Wow, it's all coming together. Yeah, I can't believe it's been almost a year of chromatica. I saw Bianca in our Slack feed, which is what we use to communicate for our pop talk. She put in a look into prices for
00:04:13
Speaker
Was it Lady Gaga tickets or press release tickets? What were... No, I'm trying to get behind the scenes press access for ABT to the Chromatica concert and I literally typed in Slack, look into press tickets for my to-do list.
00:04:30
Speaker
So, you know, I'm just trying to bring the listeners premium content. That's all I'm trying to do here. I'm just trying to do my job. So you're doing a great job. Appreciate you. Thank you. I'm really excited. I was listening to Chromatica quite a bit over the weekend when I was kind of driving back and forth. And, you know, I'm feeling really ready. I told my best friend, Miss Elizabeth Green, who will be coming on the podcast next month.
00:04:55
Speaker
I told her my biggest fear as we kind of go into the summer and make summer plans is that I am waiting in line for the bathroom when rain on me or a song from Chromatica plays in a dance hall and I can't let that happen. It would be the death of me.
Lady Gaga's West Hollywood Honor
00:05:15
Speaker
Yeah, what a tragedy that be.
00:05:19
Speaker
Speaking of premium content though, I started reading your book, which is Seth Rogen's autobiography, and it's pretty entertaining. It's, it's really funny. So if you're looking for like a good easy read to introduce your hot girl summer, I would definitely recommend your book.
00:05:40
Speaker
You know, Jenna, it's funny you say that because I was at Barnes and Noble this weekend. And I saw that book, that was the first time I'd really, I guess, seen it. And I was like, Oh my god, we should talk about this on the podcast. And then, like I saw on APT story that you're reading, and I was like, Oh, shit, like,
00:05:58
Speaker
Look at the way the universe works. Also, I tweeted at Seth Rogen and Roxanne Gay, and neither of them responded, so I'm a little disappointed about that. It's OK. That makes sense. It's OK. If you're a listener, if you wanted to retweet that and give Seth and Roxanne a little shout out, try to get them on the podcast.
00:06:18
Speaker
It's all the Jewish puns in the book are really getting me. That's funny. Did you watch his pickle movie? I did. I actually did. It was okay. I really liked it. You know which movie I actually liked was the one he did about being a campaign writer with Charlize Theron? Oh, I didn't see that. That one was actually pretty funny. I liked that one a lot.
00:06:47
Speaker
didn't that one come out like prime pandemic yeah it did and it came out before the like jewish pickle movie whatever that was called i liked the pickle movie i thought it was so funny yeah it's cute that one was funny listening to him talk about starring in both roles because he had to do each one at different times because he didn't want to shave his beard because
00:07:17
Speaker
to quote Seth Rogen, nothing is worse than a fake beard in a movie. Oh that's interesting. So he had to film all of his like the grandfather or great-grandfather role and then he filmed his like modern contemporary role after and then they like spliced them together. That's so cool. Yeah do it for the beard.
00:07:38
Speaker
Seth Rogen, please come on our podcast. I'm gonna talk to you. But I feel like if we beg too much, it's just not gonna happen. So I gotta chill a little bit. I'm not cool. I'm not good. All right, well enough chit chat. Are you ready to get into some art news quickly? Yes, definitely.
00:08:04
Speaker
Well, last week the National Museum for Women in the Arts announced that they will close in August for a two year renovation that will add gallery space and an education studio, improve accessibility and upgrade the mechanical system in this historic building. So the project is said to be about $66 million and it is actually the first renovation since the museum opened in 1987.
00:08:32
Speaker
Director Susan Fisher Sterling said, quote, this renovation really is the preservation project that allows for the reimagining of the space. The museum founder Wilhelmina Cole Holiday and her husband Wallace spent $15.5 million to buy the building and renovated before it opened. And Wilhelmina actually just died this past March at the age of 98.
00:08:59
Speaker
This second renovation will add about 3000 square feet to its current 20,000 square feet of gallery space. It's going to include larger walls, galleries for contemporary art, and a new visitor orientation gallery meant to improve visitor experience. It's going to restore the building's roof and exterior, upgrade its lighting, climate, security, tech, and improve ADA accessibility.
00:09:25
Speaker
Baltimore-based architect Sandra Vecchio, who is leading the project, said that the new gallery and education space was the result of reorganizing the floor plan.
00:09:35
Speaker
quote, we came up with an idea like, wouldn't it be great to have a new gallery on the fourth floor with the library and education studio? Wouldn't that be a programmatic win? That's a funny quote. Planning for the project began actually in 2015, and it was delayed by nine months because of the pandemic. So this is a question I had, I was like, what, at first when I heard the news, I was like, why didn't all of this just take place during the pandemic? I feel like that would have just
00:10:04
Speaker
don't know made more sense to me but apparently the pandemic and construction costs have increased the price tag so the museum has raised 50 million dollars from individuals foundations and corporations but the pandemic also gave the museum staff time to test digital plans which will help with virtual programming when the construction is underway so I guess that is a
00:10:29
Speaker
plus is that now that a lot of museums are used to hosting different kinds of programming outside of their usual gallery space, hopefully that won't be a problem for them to kind of keep up different types of
00:10:44
Speaker
education. During the renovation the museum does plan to hold major exhibitions at other venues in DC and offer educational programs in schools. So I was actually talking about this museum over the weekend with someone who just graduated in museum study so congratulations to you. And this building is really interesting because it's not
00:11:10
Speaker
on the National Mall, but it is listed on the National Register of Historic Places. But the outside of the museum, I really hope that they're able to kind of make the museum more apparent in the city because it's kind of this wedge building in a weird cross street and it doesn't really announce itself that it's
00:11:35
Speaker
Basically the only museum in the country that is dedicated to the advancement of women artists It's kind of just this generic gray stone building that matches the rest of the buildings in downtown DC and I think that's not a real detriment to this space. It's a great museum and the inside is really beautiful but I really hope that that they're able to do a lot more with the outside and really announce this as a
00:12:03
Speaker
a huge place for women's advancement in the arts. But I'm also happy to see the galleries being renovated. When I was there, the architecture of the building is beautiful, the inside is beautiful, but the gallery does feel a little kind of dimmed. It doesn't feel very lively, I guess, inside, even though it's a great place. I hate to
00:12:28
Speaker
make it sound not as appealing, but I hope that the renovation really boosts its presence in the city, but across the country as well. So that when tourists come, they're not just going to the National Mall, but they're really taking this museum into account.
Art Institution Challenges: Layoffs and Outsourcing
00:12:42
Speaker
Hmm. I wonder if our next segment of art news kind of ties into that last question or commentary that you just posed, Bianca. So another story that we wanted to share today with you all comes from our friend Anna Blake on TikTok. If you remember, Anna joined us in April to talk about separating the art from the artist. So definitely go back and listen to that episode if you haven't already. But Anna made this TikTok about a story from Hyper Allergic
00:13:11
Speaker
where they write that when the National Gallery of Art welcomes back visitors after a long pandemic pause on May 14th, the museum's gift shop won't be open for business.
00:13:24
Speaker
staff who worked in the store as clerks, buyers, and unofficial ambassadors for the museum may be returning in different roles, or maybe not at all. So it turns out that the National Gallery laid off its entire retail division last month, part of a quote, move to reorganize the museum's approach to commerce.
00:13:47
Speaker
More than a dozen employees learned that their positions at the museum were being eliminated during a virtual staff meeting on April 12th, affecting personnel across the museum's two buildings in Washington D.C. and its warehouse in Landover, Maryland.
00:14:04
Speaker
Those positions will instead be staffed by Event Network, which is a contractor that runs retail operations for more than 90 museums and cultural institutions across the country. Some of the 27 employees who lost their jobs have an opportunity to return to work at the National Gallery via Event Network, although several express concerns that the new job will offer less pay or fewer hours. They'll also lose their
00:14:33
Speaker
federal benefits, one former National Gallery employee said, quote, the more a bunch of us who looked, the more we realized some of these jobs aren't full time. There's not anywhere close to what we were getting with our federal benefits.
00:14:50
Speaker
Current and former museum staff who spoke with Hyperallergic asked not to use their name since the museum is requiring affected workers to sign non-disclosure agreements as part of the terms of their exit. Alber received a payout package that includes annual leave, extended benefits, and severance pay. The museum transition comes after years of underperformance in the museum's 8 million retail business. The Smithsonian Institution laid off 237 employees in October
00:15:19
Speaker
citing 49 million in losses. Similar cuts have hit the Solomon R. Guggenheim Museum, the Metropolitan Museum of Art, and scores of other art institutions. A survey conducted in March by the American Alliance of Museums found that 43% of workers at U.S. museums had lost income during the pandemic.
00:15:39
Speaker
Yet the National Gallery is an outlier in one respect. Over the course of the pandemic, the museum has retained all its staff and continued paying full wages and benefits. Current and former museum employees say that the retail staffers were continually reassured by management that their positions
00:15:56
Speaker
would not be outsourced. This was a constant worry in the shops, they say, because the problems were so apparent. Quote, these used to be good jobs where you can support your families and have medical benefits for your kids, one former National Gallery employee says. These were decent jobs, but they were chipped away at overtime.
00:16:15
Speaker
So if you'd like to read the whole article from hyper allergic we are going to link that in our resources page And also Anna's tick-tock as well So I would definitely recommend watching Anna's tick-tock because she does mention a couple things it was interesting to find out you know, it feels like one of the oldest stories in the books, but I
00:16:37
Speaker
A bunch of these upper management people are making quite a bit of, you know, good money. One of their directors is bringing in a little bit over a million dollars and then 14 other senior staff members make over 150K a year. So it's these workers and also frontline workers in the pandemic who are the people who are losing their jobs.
00:16:59
Speaker
It's interesting to see that they can be consumed by event network. However, there were a lot of pluses in being in the role that they were at specifically as Anna mentions in her TikTok, the federal benefits being a huge, huge advantage that they will no longer have because event network is a for profit business. Yeah, this is just so ridiculous. And I know that this has been going on in museums for a while. This
00:17:26
Speaker
also takes place a lot of the time with security staff, which is something that, for example, accounts like A Better Guggenheim and Change the Museum have been talking about over the course of the pandemic that frontline workers and museums are not getting the benefits, the pay that they deserve for being frontline essential staff, let alone they appear to be expendable by the institution that they work for. And that is
00:17:53
Speaker
It's so disrespectful in the first place, but it really is a detriment to art institutions. I mean, I don't want to work for a place like that that sees frontline people.
00:18:04
Speaker
as not worthy of pay or benefits. I mean, it's just ridiculous. These are the people who are protecting everything that you value inside and for you to throw them away and fire them like that is just, it's absolutely ridiculous. And I just, I feel terrible for also the National Gallery employees who found out about this over a Zoom call. I mean- Yeah, that's hard. That's, that's, yeah, that's just a cherry on top of it all.
00:18:32
Speaker
It's kind of hard to see a museum also outsourcing like big business at the same time. Like I'm not gonna pretend like I know all the ins and outs of museum gift shops and how people are attaining their museum merchandise and big business is probably a part of that. But to outsource it in this way and then know how it's going to cause this huge detriment to your employees who have been long time loyal employees and good standing is kind of hard to see.
00:19:02
Speaker
Yeah. And then making them sign an NDA. What the fuck is that about? What the fuck is wrong with you? I'm sorry, but you're making your fired employees sign an NDA because you don't want to pay them benefits. I'm sorry. That makes me so mad. And again, you're right. We don't know all the ins and outs about it, but what the hell?
00:19:24
Speaker
It would be really interesting to do a follow-up on this story and maybe other museums who have had to make decisions, particularly in the pandemic when it comes to pay. We have an art pop tart that was writing a thesis about pay in an arts fields and particularly women's experiences and relationship to that and particularly what's going on during this time.
Museum Worker Pay and Future Discussions
00:19:47
Speaker
So it could be really cool to have her on if you guys are interested in exploring topics like this a little bit more.
00:19:54
Speaker
Oh, definitely. And we can link that Instagram on our resources as well. Yeah. She's got some great. That Instagram page is awesome. Info graphics for Onyx. Yeah, we'll link her Instagram. I just, my thoughts are with those employees. And it's just, it's really important to keep talking about this. And I'm really grateful for Anna.
00:20:14
Speaker
who made the TikTok about it and hopefully that reaches a large audience and people, people know what's going on. It's just, it's really messed up to see museums take action like this. It's really disheartening, so. Absolutely. And if anyone wants to come on the podcast under a pseudonym, you are more than welcome. Oh my gosh, that would be amazing. Wow. You know, we won't disclose any of your information, but if you want to talk about your experience, please come on. That's what we're here for. Yeah.
Interview with Danlyn Phan: Art and Identity
00:20:44
Speaker
Very, very excited and some better news to have our guest artist on today, Danlin Pham. Danlin Pham is a Vietnamese artist and illustrator in Tulsa, Oklahoma. Pham uses a variety of arts mediums from watercolor, sculpture, and digital art and illustrations. She completed her BFA in studio art at Oklahoma State University in 2016. Pham had solo shows in Oklahoma and Texas
00:21:12
Speaker
She has been featured in publications such as Explicit Asia, Everyday Humans, A Slut Zine, and Modernista Group AP Publishing. Pham's work focuses on her ongoing fascination with her identity, socialization, and the construction of culture. Her work aims to redefine what it means to be an Asian American woman.
00:21:34
Speaker
I feel like everyone's going to love her work, but our Oklahoma girlies gays and gays are really going to appreciate, I think, the cowgirl aesthetic that we're being provided in fam's work. I'm just so obsessed. We're going to link all of Dan's resources for you, her Instagram, also a place where you can go and buy those fabulous prints. I gotta get on there and buy the cowgirl. I'm really excited.
00:21:58
Speaker
So we hope that everyone enjoys our Art Pop Talk with Danlyn Pham.
00:22:35
Speaker
Well, hello, hello everyone and welcome back. We are joined by Dan Pham. Welcome to the show. We're so excited to have you here with us. We were wondering if you wouldn't mind, can you please introduce yourself to our listeners and talk to them a little bit about the core ideals associated with your work. Of course. So I'm really excited to be a part of the show. My name is Danlyn Pham and I'm a Vietnamese American artist. I was born in Vietnam.
00:23:04
Speaker
and moved to the States when I was one, and I've been in Tulsa, Oklahoma since I was six. My body of work focuses on identity, socialization, and the construction of culture, and I'm trying to redefine what it means to be an Asian American woman and tackling preexisting stereotypes.
00:23:19
Speaker
Dan, thank you so much for being here. I also wanted to say that we were recommended that Dan come on the show by a listener. So that's really exciting. We're really happy to have you on. I was reading some interviews about you, and I was reading one that said you actually took a hiatus from art after your graduation. But with the pandemic, you said that your Instagram actually became, quote, a public journal of private life.
00:23:47
Speaker
And the pandemic has either forced us to or allowed us to kind of return to different projects and reevaluate kind of these many different paths that we who study the arts can take. So can you talk a little bit about your hiatus from art and why you returned to it and how Instagram became kind of a base for that return? Yeah, of course. So after graduating, I spent most of my time trying to secure like a nine to five kind of job.
00:24:16
Speaker
And I really wanted to fight against a whole starving artist stereotype when I graduated from school. It's just mainly to prove to my parents that you can obtain a job with benefits and a 401k with an art degree. So I was consumed with that mentality of like adulting, I guess. And I somehow fell into the rat race of life and got caught up in this competitive routine and grueling pace of life. Essentially, I was just too burnt out from
00:24:43
Speaker
Keeping up with that rat race during those three to four years post-grad to make any art. And I used to get really embarrassed when classmates or professors asked if I was still creating because I didn't make a single piece of artwork since graduating until 2020. So when the pandemic hit, it gave me a lot of free time. And I was also feeling a lot of worry and stress just because of everything that was going on.
00:25:06
Speaker
So drawing has always been an outlet for me, so I like to scrounge my house for some old micron pens and started drawing again to distract myself from all the 2020 scares. So I guess in a way, Tipenemic allowed me to find my way back to creating art and using art as an outlet again. So I started sketching for fun and that quickly led me to finally creating an Instagram for my art and to keep me accountable.
00:25:31
Speaker
And I also made it a goal to be more vulnerable in my work because I believe more ability is a strength. So that's why my Instagram quickly became kind of like a public diary.
00:25:42
Speaker
Dan, I have to say, when I was also reading some of those articles Bianca was talking about, I felt a little bit selfishly like, oh, okay, like she also took a break, like it's okay to take breaks. Because it has been such a crazy year. And since I graduated, and in this pandemic, it's been a little bit of the opposite for me, like I use the pandemic to focus on other things, but it's really wonderful to see
00:26:09
Speaker
that nature and that resilience of art, that it's always going to be there for you when you need it. And when you're in the right headspace to pick it back up. I'm curious, though, from your time from graduation in 2016, what line of, if you don't mind me asking, what line of work were you doing besides art, if you were working, so to speak, a typical nine to five? So I am still working now a full time job. So art has just kind of been like any free time I have, I'll do it.
00:26:38
Speaker
So I work at a nonprofit, we tackle, it's a nonprofit that tackles like anti poverty. So we focus on, I guess providing like early childhood education for kids just to give them like a better start in life and just to like career advancement for parents and just kind of finding the right resources for parents around Tulsa. Oh, that's amazing. Do you guys do any kind of local partnering with some of the museums in the area?
00:27:03
Speaker
And so since we are a Head Start agency, so we mostly deal with just like little littles like very from infant to I think like preschool. So we don't really deal with the museums. I wish we did though. That'd be a lot of fun. I think it's really great that you're so open about this experience because just speaking to that kind of level of
00:27:26
Speaker
embarrassment that you were talking about with your professors when people ask you about your profession. I know that it's something we've been just kind of harping on the past few months at APT. I know Gianna and our good friend Audrey and myself, we're just like all dealing with this issue of we really want to work in the arts, but why are we struggling so much to work in the arts? And I just think it's really, really awesome that you're talking about it and you're open about it because I think there is a type
00:27:53
Speaker
Of career shaming that happens in the arts and particularly with artists and I don't you know you could speak to this better than I could probably but
00:28:01
Speaker
But it's so funny, like these conversations just keep coming up in the context of 2020 and thinking about workplaces and stuff like that. Yeah, well, I think especially it's come up in the context of this year and being able to have a different kind of work life and being able to like work from home has proved to have a more flexible nature for artists that have multiple incomes. So that's been really interesting conversations to have with folks. But yeah, it has been
00:28:30
Speaker
challenging and I understand those expectations of needing to prove yourself needing to prove the nature of your degree and the pressures that come with that but also kind of.
00:28:42
Speaker
really needing to be in the right headspace to make art and this pandemic proves to be really difficult to make art in, especially in comparison to something like my work, I didn't really feel like that is what the world needed at that moment. So I was kind of grappling with these two things. I don't know if you ever felt that in the pandemic as well, Dan. I definitely did. I feel like just like everyone else
00:29:07
Speaker
I feel like just having more free time and more autonomy over your day has just kind of opened up a lot more, I guess, freedom and space for me to actually create art. So I'm still working from home. I started working from home in March of last year and since that shift, it's been
00:29:26
Speaker
It's like, I feel like since I started creating art again, I'm like proud of like having an art degree again. So it's like when I entered the workforce, when people asked like, Oh, what did you study in school? I was almost embarrassed to say like, oh, I studied art, you know, because I could see like how people's faces change when you talk about that. So, um, so on the podcast, we are really interested in exploring these ideas of
00:29:49
Speaker
duality, hypocrisy, and kind of this dichotomous living and thinking. I know for myself, I'm always on both sides of a lot of different lines of thought.
00:30:00
Speaker
And you said that your artwork is, quote, kind of like a personal visual diary that moves between personal and external experiences. On the personal side, you explore cultural identity and the economy of being raised in a really conservative Vietnamese household, and at the same time participating in a predominantly white American culture. So can you talk about these dualities and how they are echoed in your work?
00:30:26
Speaker
what the larger social contributions that you see as being important to exploring and embracing duality rather than confining yourself to kind of one of those boxes. Even if from the outside, people may not kind of view those two separate worlds as being aligned. That's a good question.
00:30:46
Speaker
Growing up, I always felt like there was two versions of me that I had to kind of keep separate from one another. So there was like the American version of me and then the Vietnamese version of myself. It wasn't until college when I realized that I could exist within both worlds by embracing both sides and kind of allowing like my American peers to see my Vietnamese version of me and vice versa. I guess that was kind of the start of my journey from constantly trying to whitewash myself to fit into my white American peers
00:31:15
Speaker
And I started to work on redefining my own version of what it means to be Vietnamese American. And then I'm starting to also reclaiming words that used to make me feel ashamed or alienated. So since creating my Instagram page, I've had the wonderful experience of being able to connect with a lot of other Asian American peers and learn about their experiences growing up and finding out that we have a lot of shared experiences. And for a lot of Asian Americans who grew up in a predominantly white
00:31:44
Speaker
American culture, like I felt like they too felt a sense of gatekeeping around their Asian peers. And so like, there's this joke that like, when someone a vision descent acts white, that they are being like a banana. So it's like the whole yellow on the outside white on the inside. And so this has been like a big motif for me in the past, and it still trinkles into my recent work. So like the feeling of not fitting into either categories or like not being Asian enough for Asians and not being white enough for
00:32:12
Speaker
white peers and so like in college I try to reclaim the term banana as my own so I create a series called the Banana Identities Cookbook and it focuses on like finding common grounds with the two identities and how it's okay for me to claim myself as both Vietnamese and American. And then if I were to touch on like my more recent work it focuses on empowering other Asian peers in this Biaspora
00:32:37
Speaker
to embrace their duality and to reclaim their heritage. I guess I've been coining myself as the VitQ cowgirl because I feel like it fits both versions of me. VitQ is a term Vietnamese people use for Vietnamese people who live outside of Vietnam. It's sort of a play on being a proud VitQ and how other people
00:32:58
Speaker
peers look at me when I tell them I live in Oklahoma. It's like growing up, I always felt like I was looked at as if I was some sort of lonesome, cowboy Asian whenever I interacted with my cousins who lived in states with a larger Vietnamese population. And so I'm just I'm hoping to eliminate the feeling of alienation by allowing my work to be a public diary of me working through my duality and finding pride within it. Speaking of that, as a follow up, one of my favorite pieces of yours is the Howdy Y'all cowgirl.
00:33:28
Speaker
And on your Instagram, your caption reads, quote, don't Google search Asian cowgirls. It gets pretty weird. Living and being part of that Southern environment, particularly, as you said, in Oklahoma, outsiders do have that view of the cowboy aesthetic. So can you talk a little bit more about that connection between geography and identity and just go into a little bit more depth about how that's coming through in some of your pieces?
00:33:56
Speaker
That piece is kind of a play on the hypersexualization that Asian women experience and growing up in a predominantly white, southern, midwestern environment. So if you Google searched anything with the words Asian and girl together, it gets you into a weird part of the internet where a lot of the images are like hypersexual images of Asian women. And then on the flip side, if you Google image something with the words American and girl,
00:34:22
Speaker
The results are not nearly as sexual. So for the longest time, I felt like I couldn't partake in that cowboy aesthetics due to his hypersexualization. But I wanted to make this piece to highlight the sexualization, but also reclaim it with an imagery of the modern-day Asian-American woman that's strong, she's hip, she's cool, you know, so it's like the coolest, strong Asian cowgirl.
00:34:46
Speaker
Dan, as you were just speaking about and looking at your writings in your work, you aim to redefine what it means to be an Asian American woman. You are changing that definition and how that definition meets the goals of your work. And I think you're even that example of that banana is so interesting because not only are you bringing a context of vocabulary and kind of slaying into your art, but you're also creating those
00:35:10
Speaker
visual languages and letting others be part of that conversation as well. So your pieces involving like food in particular, I think are fascinating.
00:35:19
Speaker
Also at Art Pop Talk, we like to fixate on how the intersection between the arts and pop culture kind of take place in our world. And as Gianna was kind of saying, we also see that happening in your work as well. So how do you kind of see value and purpose in merging these ideas of art pop and identity? So identity is an integral part of my work. And I draw from my lived experiences to create my work.
00:35:48
Speaker
Current events have become such a large part of artistic expression, especially on social media, and it's hard not to be impacted on a personal level by those current events. Since my work serves as a personal diary, my response to those current events naturally flows into my work, and so the style of my pieces being like loud, colorful, and graphic mainly serves to help position Asian women as loud, strong, powerful, and contrast the history types of Asian women being like quiet and invincible.
00:36:16
Speaker
and looking at some of your writings, how you talked about this idea of the female warrior and breaking that idea of wanting contemporary Asian women to not be seen as docile or submissive, but to go back to that history of the matriarchy and have these contemporary warrior women, which is so
Addressing Asian Hate Crimes through Art
00:36:36
Speaker
cool. And I think that really comes through with your, I don't want to say aggressive, but really assertive color palette as well.
00:36:45
Speaker
So we wanted to talk about, yeah, of course, we wanted to talk about your piece that you sent us called Same Old, Same Old. In the work, the text reads, quote, an Asian hate is not new. So can you please talk about this work a little bit more and also share with us how the arts and pop culture can eject us from that same old, same old way of addressing Asian hate crimes?
00:37:14
Speaker
So I made that piece in response to the Atlanta shootings that happened in March this year, where the shooter targeted Asian women. I was infuriated at how the media handled it per usual and how they gave the shooter, who's a white male, more respect than they gave the victims. I watched as they butchered the victim's names and how they gave the shooter positive intent by saying he was just having a bad day.
00:37:40
Speaker
I feel like Asians have always had to fight to be seen just because our model minority status leaves our pain unseen. And so Asian Americans are constantly fighting to be seen in the same class as white Americans because we're always seen as perpetual foreigners. So with the rise in Asian hate crimes in the past year,
00:37:59
Speaker
I feel that people think that this hate is something new that Asians are experiencing and it's not. Asian hate and xenophobia have been around for the entirety of American history. And I feel that prior to the pandemic, I remember people would be shocked when I tell them a recent racist experience I've had. But it always met with like, I can't believe that happened to you.
00:38:18
Speaker
And it always leaves me thinking like, no, it's been happening for as long as I can remember, you know? And so that piece spared a lot of vulnerability for me just to share my experiences growing up, being hypersexualized and just kind of making note of the things I grew up just feeling like thinking it was normal to hear that and then realizing as adult, like, that's not okay.
00:38:40
Speaker
And it was my way of using the arts and pop culture to further humanize Asians in our experiences. And I was using my own experiences to help humanize to stop the AAPI hate movement and to give it a sense of gravity.
00:38:55
Speaker
I am also curious just in light of the pandemic and also, again, as you say, not recent aggressions, but aggressions that have been pushed to the forefront during the pandemic. What kind of, I guess, feedback or criticism or involvement of your work are you getting with the community or in particular in Tulsa? Have you had the opportunity to show in the pandemic digitally or virtually? I'm just curious about, hopefully,
00:39:22
Speaker
the cod marauder eager support that you would be receiving during this time. I am overwhelmed by I guess the support in Tulsa. I am
00:39:32
Speaker
I feel like I grew up feeling so alienated and I feel like ever since I've kind of opened the doors for everyone to kind of read into my little diary post, then I guess it's like the support has been overwhelming and I'm really appreciative of it all. So I got to show at Ralph's like a cafe at VA and just like everyone I talked to or just kind of finding other Asian American peers that have come up to me and just telling me like,
00:39:58
Speaker
like I've experienced this too is just so comforting even for like, it's like they felt comforted by my art, but then at the same time I felt so comforted by their experience just because I'm like, okay, it's not just me. Like I am not crazy for feeling this way. But no, I feel like Tulsa has been great. I mean, again, like our comedian Tulsa is amazing. And I feel like they've just kind of welcomed it with open arms and I'm really grateful for it. That's fantastic. That's so good to hear.
00:40:24
Speaker
I'm trying to get to Tulsa, so I'm trying my best. I'm on my way, I promise. You guys can have a little party in Tulsa. That would be so fun. I do really need a good art pal, Dan, if I'm being real. So this has all just been to course you to be my best friend.
00:40:47
Speaker
Things I was curious about is since you went to OSU, Bianca and I are both OSU graduates. I'm curious as what exactly your degree was in. Was it graphic design or was it studio? And what did your work look like while you were studying in school? Was it vastly different from what you were doing now? Or has it kind of followed like a nice pathway for you?
00:41:09
Speaker
That's so different. I feel like if you look at my work in college to now, college feels like two completely different people who made it. But in college, I feel like I wasn't ready to open up about my experiences yet. And so a lot of my artwork, like, I feel you could see, I guess, like the pain in it, but you wouldn't recognize it as like an Asian American experience pain.
00:41:31
Speaker
So I went to school for studio art, but I did do graphic design for a year and I just felt like I wouldn't be the happiest working client-based, so I switched over to studio art. And so my two, I guess, focuses was watercolors and sculpture.
00:41:51
Speaker
And so that's why I still kind of dabble in woodworking still. And then watercolors I have yet to touch again since graduation. But again, been very busy. But yeah, my work is very different. I think I have switched very digitally just for convenience wise. So I can still produce artwork at the speed that I need to produce it and what the timeframe that I have, like, I guess, to make art.
00:42:17
Speaker
But yeah, it's very different. My old work was a lot of body parts, a lot of, I think it was more focused on like image, just like feeling like my looks and like how like just like not being represented. And so it was like, I was facing off my image on a lot of like European beauty standards instead of like Asian beauty standards. And so my work in college touched on that a lot until senior year.
00:42:43
Speaker
I switched, I started to kind of walk into the Asian American experience.
00:42:48
Speaker
Wonderful, wonderful. Well, I think in general, I'm so blown away by the use of your figure. I mean, the way that you manipulate the body and I love like all the twisted arms. I just, I'm a big fan. So that's all I'll say about that. But if anything, I think just in listening to you speak about your experience at OSU, at least your background in figurative work and dealing with the figure at an early age in or
00:43:17
Speaker
early time in your career has kind of led you to this work and be able to work more digitally. So that's, that's cool to hear. You never know what your your early work is gonna
00:43:25
Speaker
lead you into some other fun stuff. But I love knowing that you were in sculpture. I don't meet too many people from the OSU program that went into sculpture. I feel like we are a rare sum individual. It's like a tight-knit group. I feel like I'm still friends with all the people I took sculpture with. We're still very close. Yes, because you're so isolated in your little sculpture bubble. I feel that.
00:43:54
Speaker
Yeah. I'm so sad that I didn't get to take any studio classes. I just feel like it makes no sense that I wasn't able to take like, I want to take a sculpture class. That sounds fun. I want to take watercolor. But no, I guess watercolor those who write about art are not allowed to take it. Well, and it's funny that you say that you have not returned to watercolor Dan because I mean, I just took
00:44:22
Speaker
intro to watercolor watercolor one and I just recently finished a commission and I started with watercolor and it was a mixed media kind of graphic piece and.
00:44:32
Speaker
the whole time. It was good because it pushed me out of my comfort zone to do something different and get back into the swing of making. I was like, why did I think watercolor was a good idea? Like, I'm terrible at watercolor. Like, it's a no joke medium. I don't know why I thought that was a good idea, but I did it. A lot of patience. A lot of patience that I don't know if I have, if I'm being honest. Yeah.
00:44:59
Speaker
I feel you. I feel like that's why I haven't returned to it. So I was like, do I have the patience now in this day and age? I think so. Jenna, that's so funny. I can't believe you went back to watercolor first because I don't actually know how, again, because I wasn't allowed to take the class how watercolor works. But the idea of stretching your paper and getting your paper already, I want to know more about that.
00:45:23
Speaker
Well, I think it is really interesting to have you on as now highlighting your digital work. There is so much, as you mentioned, that relates to the convenience of digital work, the way that you can produce them at a higher rate for your own income, but also for even exhibition purposes. It is so fascinating to see how digital art has taken off in the fine art realm.
00:45:48
Speaker
So to hear that you kind of dappled in graphic design and then ended up doing studio route, you know, sometimes life makes sense and I think the work that you're producing now is just incredible.
00:46:00
Speaker
So we like to have our friends on the podcast answer a fun question. We've recently talked about welcoming Chuggi into the art history world. Since even our conversation that we had about it last episode in the episode before, I've been hearing a lot of really interesting conversations about Chuggi and how it is kind of coded misogyny in the way that we're kind of pinpointing female consumer experiences. I do think that
00:46:30
Speaker
Chugi has revolved around this conversation of particularly female experiences. But regardless of that, Chugi has just been a really interesting topic that we've continued to discuss on Art Pop Talks. So we thought it would be
00:46:43
Speaker
fun or funny to ask the question, what is the chewiest thing about you if you had to pick something, something you own, an aesthetic that you might like or a fandom you participate in? Because as Bianca and I said last episode, I think the chewiest thing about us is probably art pop talk. I feel like the chewiest thing about me is that I use the term doggo.
00:47:11
Speaker
I fell a little bit attacked when I saw that on the chewy list. But I don't know, I heard that the arch nemesis of the cheug is the hipsters. And I felt like I've always fell more into the hipster category in the millennial world. So I think that's keeping me from living like a heavy cheug life.
00:47:28
Speaker
That's the minute I heard that skinny jeans were on. I was immediately on board with that. I was like, yes, Zoomers, can you take those out already? That is so funny. See, but the thing is, my body needs some high-waisted.
00:47:44
Speaker
pants. I don't care what fit it is, but like, yeah, we got to keep the high waisted energy going. But I totally feel you on the doggo one because I was also I felt personally attacked, you know, and they were like, you can't say doggo anymore. And I like to say that. And I also like to say floofster. And I was like, Oh, man, like when I see a dog at the park, like, what am I gonna call it now? Just a dog? That's not fun.
00:48:10
Speaker
No, I agree. You got to say doggo. Well, Dan, so before we let you go, where can everybody find you? Is there anything that you'd like to plug before this lovely interview ends?
00:48:25
Speaker
Yeah, so you can find me on Instagram at danfemmet.art. You can also find my passion project with my partner on Instagram at still.mil or by visiting our website at stillmil.store. That's where you'll be able to buy, like, April to buy prints or planning to include apparel. And if you're wanting to keep up with my woodworking, still mil is the place. And additionally, if you want to learn more about the history of Asian Americans in America, I highly recommend watching the PBS documentary called Asian Americans.
00:48:54
Speaker
It's extremely informative on the history of identity and contributions and challenges experienced by Asian Americans, so we'd recommend. Amazing. Oh, cool. We're going to have to add that to our watch list for our newsletter, so everyone will know where to find that. We cannot thank you enough for being with us today. Bianca, do you have anything else you want to add?
00:49:14
Speaker
I think that's it. We will link all of Dan's handles in the episode show notes for you. So you won't have to go anywhere. Just click on her links. We'll also link that special for you guys. Dan, thank you so much for being here. And with that, we will talk to you all on Tuesday. Bye everyone.
00:49:36
Speaker
Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci-Vinc. And me, Gianna Martucci-Vinc. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.