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Episode 709 - Raw Bowl
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We're finishing up the linestepper submissions for Thursday Night Raw this week as we head toward preserving a list of 100 extremely raw moments in amber (or something more raw)!
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Transcript
Introduction to War Rocket Ajax Podcast
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster, or you want to be a podcaster, and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster. They also have hosting options. And you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes, or in the episode description, and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
00:00:53
Speaker
everybody and welcome to War Rocket Ajax. This is the internet's most explosive comic book and pop culture podcast. We are your hosts. My name is Chris Simms and with me as always is Matt Wilson. And Matt, I don't know if this is the most embarrassing way that I have encountered crucial and necessary media to know about, but I am sure that Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2 was the first time that I heard Public Enemy.
00:01:27
Speaker
matt What a Public Enemy song is in Tony Hawk's Pro Skaters? Oh, bring the noise. Yeah, no, i got into I got into Public Enemy well after I got into Tony Hawk's Pro Skater.
00:01:38
Speaker
Way late, okay, gotcha. I was not unfamiliar with hip-hop at the time, but I certainly didn't know all I
Musical Discoveries and Reflections
00:01:51
Speaker
should have. So is your question to me when the first time I heard Public Enemy was? No, my question to you is what is a similarly, not necessarily embarrassing, but unlikely way that you have encountered a piece of of media that you now consider to be crucial.
00:02:08
Speaker
Oh, i I remember. This ah this is another like music thing that you would think I would have known, but I didn't know who they were until way later than I should have. I went to, because I'm a cool kid, I went to governor's school in the year 2000. If you don't know what that is, that's when like ah high-achieving students go to school voluntarily in the summer. ah But i I met a lot of lifelong friends at Governor's School. I met Ben Gully at Governor's School. Our our good buddy. If you had not gone to Governor's School, I would not know Ben Gully. Exactly. it's it's I met quite a few friends that I've known ever since at Governor's School. But one of the things we did at Governor's School was they would do screenings of movies.
00:03:01
Speaker
for For the edification of the students and one of the movies one of the more modern movies was fight club and so I went and saw a fight club with some people and The pixie song whereas my mind played at the end of that movie and I was like I've never heard that before who's that and somebody was like it's pixies How do you not know who that is?
00:03:24
Speaker
And that was how I became aware of the band Pixies. I was, I was driving around with my wife not too long ago and listening to, uh, the radio and a, uh, a song off of the first Weezer album came on. The the blue album. Yeah. Uh, I think it was saying it. ain't So, and we were listening to it and I turned to her and I said, like, like the drop happened. And I was like, now imagine you're hearing this and you have no idea who the Pixies are.
00:03:55
Speaker
That happened to me. That happened to me. That happened to me.
00:04:02
Speaker
She would blow your mind. Yeah, absolutely.
Podcast Goals and Listener Support
00:04:05
Speaker
We've got a great show this week for everybody. We do. it's ah It's time to get raw. One of the last times to get raw, we were going to finish out as many of the line stepper submissions to Thursday Night Raw as we can, because we have vowed to finish out the line steppers. And then we will get into non-line stepper submissions until we get to 100 entries on the raw list. And then the raw list will be encased in amber.
00:04:37
Speaker
Never to be changed again. maybe Maybe something more raw than amber, but yes. In the hamburger? Maybe. That way if we really need it, we can we can have it. Yeah. It'll just be frozen in some hamburger in the freezer. You know what page I have open, then? I do, Matt. It is it is your.
00:05:06
Speaker
most visited page on Wikipedia of the year 2024. Yeah. List of wwe WWE Raw special episodes. Indeed. And it's it's late January. So the comparable episode of Raw that I'm going to call this episode is Raw Bowl.
00:05:31
Speaker
I was saying it could do, uh, whatever. Did they call the the first Netflix raw anything? They probably did, but I hated it. And, uh, I don't want to, it was just called raw premiere on Netflix. And also it sucked. They had four matches in three hours. Hulk Hogan was there and they did boo him. That was the best part of the whole show. But, uh, Undertaker ruined Rhea Ripley's moment.
00:06:01
Speaker
i don't I don't know why. People seem to like it. I don't get it. Yeah, it sounds like a recipe for a pretty bad time. Anyway, Raw Bowl is what we're calling this episode of Thursday Night Raw. But before we get to ranking Raw Comics moments, Chris, we do have some business to take care of. The first bit of business is thanking our newest supporters over on Patreon. That's right, Matt. No, these are the people. They've gone all the way down to 709 Gimmick Street. And of course, you know what's there.
00:06:33
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file Let's see. The exhaustion, the utter exhaustion in your voice. What did we say was ah at 708? I don't know. It was a fast food restaurant of some kind, if I remember right. There's a lot of fast food restaurants on on gimmick street. It's almost as though we record these after dinner time, but not too far after dinner time. yeah That's true. Yeah. Well, it's not like the those establishments are not constantly on our minds. That's true. They're they're certainly on mine all the time. ah Anyway, look, you got to have public services on gimmick street. That's true. so Some people might try and tell you that you don't got to have public services.
00:07:24
Speaker
Those people are wrong. But you do, and ah so there's a fire station there. Oh, that's right. ah Firehouses are numbered, right? Yes. What are they what are they called? It's not it's not precinct. i I don't know, district, whatever whatever it is. You know, it's I wish I could remember the right thing. Here's an interesting geographic fact about gimmick street.
00:07:52
Speaker
No cops, no police stations. No, only fire. Only fire stations. That's all you need and and like ah mental health services and and that's it. Yeah, while you're driving past the fire station down on gimmick street, hopefully you don't need to go there. I mean, maybe you need to go there to like I don't know, learn fire safety. They'll maybe demo it for you or or maybe it's Halloween and they'll check out your candy, but hopefully you don't need them to put out any fires. ah But what we do need is money. Yeah. We really need money. Put some money in the boot like they do at the fire station. Yeah. And then hopefully they'll give that money to us or you can cut out the middleman.
00:08:43
Speaker
and give the money directly to us by going to Patreon dot.com slash War Rocket Ajax and kicking in as little as a dollar a month to ah help us do the show, help us keep doing all the things that we do here on War Rocket Ajax and its associated podcasts. And most importantly, I cannot stress this enough. Help us pay those gimmicks they keep sitting in the mail called bills. That's right, Chris. Sadly, I have no new names to read.
00:09:13
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for this this episode. Some people did increase their contributions which I appreciate but the number on Patreon of paid patrons went down from four hundred to three ninety nine and we're trying to get to that funny weed number. So folks. Make this happen.
00:09:38
Speaker
You gotta make this happen. We're coming up on wake up, wake up, wake up the first of the month for February. Kick in, get us up to 420, we'll take an edible and record some boko. I don't know how else we, what what more can we do to incentivize getting that number up to the funny weed number? Matt, I'm trying real hard not to take it personal.
00:10:02
Speaker
i I understand. I understand. Look, people got concerns at the first of the year, taxes and whatnot, but... Yes, they do. People do have those concerns. People, including the two of us, have those concerns.
00:10:18
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ah That said, um we do appreciate all of our Patreon supporters. as a patron On Patreon, you get all of the shows that we do, this show weekly,
00:10:31
Speaker
the monthly Every Story Ever specials, monthly comics catch up, movie fighters and snack situation. There was just a new snack situation where Marlene and I tried the various snacks we acquired over our holidays. And it's a very fun time, so go listen to that. If you're a patron, you get every single one of those shows that I just listed off completely ad-free. You get your own special little feed of all the shows that we do here at Clitus Media, totally ad-free.
00:11:01
Speaker
Which I think is pretty good, but if that ain't enough for you, you can get other stuff too. You can get bonus content at the $5 level. You get all the bonus audio and other content, including writing Chris and I have done and other things.
00:11:19
Speaker
over there on patreon at that that entire backlog of all the bonus content we've ever done is there as soon as you subscribe at the five dollar level at the ten dollar level you get uh line stepping privileges for our segments right now the entries for thursday night raw have closed but there's still every story ever and we will start a new segment later in 2025 when we finish Thursday Night Raw. And then above that there are physical rewards including t-shirts. I have a box of the 2024 t-shirts over here and we have a pretty good idea of what the 2025 t-shirt is going to be. So
00:12:00
Speaker
If any of that sounds good to you, head over to Patreon and help us out. If you cannot help us out monetarily, which we do understand, you can help us out in other ways. You can leave us a five star review on the podcasting app
Personal Updates and Recommendations
00:12:11
Speaker
that you use. That would be a big help to us. Spread the word about the show. You can also just tell your friends and family to listen to the show. Give us some good word of mouth. That's very useful and helpful. And when your family members find out about the show,
00:12:29
Speaker
Hopefully, they can provide to our Patreon themselves. Contribute there. ah That would be great. Chris, with that, it's time for some checks and recs. What do you say? Let's do it.
00:12:47
Speaker
Chris, what do you have to check in with this week? Matt, I have finished Death Note. Mmm. Wrapped it all up. Now, I will say, Death Note note hits its peak about 40 chapters before it finishes, you know? It's kind of one of those. That tends to happen, yeah. Yeah. But it's not likes like the the back half of it's bad, and I actually did enjoy it quite a bit, but the real the real stuff kind of comes to a head.
00:13:24
Speaker
and you find out that everything is going according to Kekaku, that happens about 60 or 70 chapters in, I would say. But a very, very good read, very fun read, still got a lot of good stuff out of the second half, did enjoy it. But that has left me, Matt, it's left me wondering, hey, I've i've um caught up on Dragon Ball, I've read all of Dragon Ball. i've I'm caught up on on Chainsaw Man,
00:13:55
Speaker
caught up on Spy Family, i could I could sit down and blast through Inuyasha, but what am I gonna read now? And ah our our good buddy, David Wolken, asked me a question, I think kinda out of nowhere, just the other day. And he said, hey, are you gonna read all of One Piece this year? So Matt,
00:14:23
Speaker
Here, as we record this on January 23rd, 2025, I am going to read all of One Piece this year. I am currently, having restarted today, ah picking up where I left off. I am on chapter 143, which means I believe I have about 1,000 chapters to go. That's quite a hill to climb.
00:14:53
Speaker
It's like, I don't have a job at the moment. So I'm thinking about putting maybe eight hours a day in at the one piece factory. Wow. Wow. Yeah. Or at least, or at least that's probably what I'm going to be like reading while I, while I have coffee or, or if I go get breakfast, I'll take, take it with me and do that. Like that's,
00:15:20
Speaker
But that's pi sounds probably not gonna spend eight hours day reading One Piece. That sounds nice. Yeah. But One Piece, I will say One Piece is a quick read. Quicker even than Dragon Ball. um Unless it takes a ah weird turn somewhere and Ejiro Oda starts really getting into some, some Steve Ditko-esque philosophy. God, if that's, if that's the case, either tell me immediately or don't tell me at all. Now, like like experience ah what I find interesting about that, Chris, yes is that we said during the Gordies what the
00:16:08
Speaker
ah Mongo we were gonna read next was uh-huh And i I think you said something other than one piece. I don't remember that i remember That was two weeks ago I Have you no idea I'm looking at the war rocket wiki page now um You you've considered Naruto. I did consider an art, but I feel like I feel like One Piece is like one that I've started. you know like I was already 100 plus chapters into it, and ah it's it is it's very enjoyable, so I am looking forward to to jumping on there. Exciting. Yeah, I think so. Matt?
00:17:00
Speaker
What are you up to this week? Well, Chris, I am going to talk about something serious for just a few moments. Uh, so indulge me. Okay. We had a natural disaster here where I live back in late 2024, and that is making it especially weird to see another natural disaster happen across the country.
00:17:26
Speaker
um and affect a lot of people that we know. Now, as far as I know, most of the folks we know in the Los Angeles area are safe and okay. And I don't think we know anyone who had a home that was damaged or destroyed in the fires, but a lot of people were very much affected by it. And it is a weird kind of deja vu to see that sort of thing happen to another community that I'm not a part of, but that I know a lot of people in. And so I just wanted to, like I did when Helene hit here in Asheville, I wanted to direct people to some resources that they can go to to to to contribute and to help
00:18:16
Speaker
um the people in Los Angeles who are going to have a long recovery, just like we are having a long recovery from Helene here in Asheville. So um just wanted to mention a few things um that you can do. The main thing I'm going to suggest, because this kind of thing can be very overwhelming. It's hard to know what to donate to, what to contribute to. There are a lot of options. There's a lot of GoFundMe's that you can contribute to, and and I would encourage doing that, but if you want to donate to some charitable organizations, LA County has a page with essentially a clearinghouse of different organizations that you can donate to. It's at l lacounty dot.gov slash relief. Now, I'm not going to say that all of the organizations that they are posting there
00:19:10
Speaker
are worth your dollar, necessarily. You know which ones I mean. but there are plenty there that do. um There is the LA County Wildlife Recovery Resources through LA County Arts and Culture. There's the California Black Freedom Fund for Housing Relief. There's the California Community Foundation, which has a wildfire recovery fund. um There's the California Fire Foundation, which is providing wildfire and disaster relief. There's the Latino Community Foundation. ah There's the National Forest Foundation,
00:19:45
Speaker
ah There's the Los Angeles County Parks Foundation. There are a lot of places um that are doing good work that you could donate to. Also, a friend of ours here on the show, Daniel Campbell Smith, he was on the show ah just before the end of the year. ah He As far as I know, is he and his family are fine, ah thankfully. um But he started a donation drive for the Los Angeles Food Bank, ah which I have donated to, and that you could donate to as well. And I would highly, highly encourage that. um i I really feel for the people out there, and I hope um that they are getting relief and support. and And I want to do what I can to help them, just like
00:20:32
Speaker
folks from LA have, have helped us out here. Um, I went to a live performance of the off book podcast in Asheville, which was very fun, a great time, a really good show, um, that they kind of on the spur of the moment made into a benefit show for Helene relief, which I really, really just thought was such a kind and generous move on their part. And, uh,
00:21:02
Speaker
I can't repay their favor or anyone else's favor um for all the support we've gotten out here, but I want to do what I can. So listeners, this is my way of telling you like, do what you can to help, please. That's my check. Chris, time for some recommendations. What do you have to recommend?
00:21:24
Speaker
Matt, as you know, because you have been you have been a an active participant in this on several occasions, I am someone who likes board games. As am I. say ie I like them, yeah. Well, Matt, do you ever play a ah complicated board game that you love and then you try and Try and play it with people who don't play a lot of complicated board games, and it makes you feel like you are wasting everyone's time, including your own. If I had a nickel for every time that happened, I would be a man with many nickels. Yeah. And yeah they don't even have to be complicated. That's true. I i tried to explain like a pretty simple deck builder.
00:22:13
Speaker
ah that I was playing with some folks the other day and ah they were playing it and I think they had fun ah but i I kept realizing like other things that I was taking for granted that maybe they knew and they didn't know and I hadn't realized that I needed to start like real early and so I just felt bad that I'm like I wanted to play a fun game and I'm giving you a math problem to do and that I i felt bad But what if I told you that there was a game out there that was ah really, really fun that you could play ah with, ah you could play it with Marlene, you could take it to a gathering. It would be self-explanatory and very easy to to get people into and also super fun. What if I told you that, man? I would be intrigued, Chris. Well, Matt, I hope you're intrigued IRL.
00:23:12
Speaker
because I have that game. And this is not a ah this is not a a hot underground recommendation that I'm bringing to you. ah this is I actually picked this game up because Wirecutter had it in their article about like really good video games. And that is Sagrada.
00:23:32
Speaker
o ah Sagrada is a game about building stained glass windows. And ah the way you do that is you have a little pattern There are ah boards that have slots in them and you put a little insert in so you get kind of a different thing every time that you can work on. It's got different requirements. And the way that you build your stained glass window is you take ah colored dice from a pool and put them into the slots according to their number or color. It's very quick, very fun.
00:24:12
Speaker
ah There's a fun little element of strategy into it. Everybody has like a there There are public goals and everybody has their own private goal that you're working on. It's good stuff highly recommended if you like if you like board games, but you find yourself often at a loss to explain them. I have taken it over to some friends' places and just immediately everybody was super into it. They were like, let's, can we play this again? ah Immediately had a blast. So definitely check out Sagrada. There is a, if you do want it to be a little more complicated. Once you get them in, once you get them in on that, you can get a little more complicated. There's a legacy version out called Sagrada Artisans.
00:25:00
Speaker
ah But there's also expansions that give you more stuff, more patterns to work on or that let you add ah more people in. ah The base game is up to four players. the The expansions can go up to, I think, six or seven. ah Basically, you are limited by the number of dice that are included. And I do love a game that comes with 90 six-sided dice in various colors.
00:25:30
Speaker
ah Definitely check out Sagrada. It was really fun and it's been ah the source of a lot of game night enjoyment up here in the frozen north. Matt, what do you have to recommend people? Chris, I would like to recommend a show. It's actually, I guess you would call it a special that you can watch on internet flickering pictures. It is a continuation of a comedy series that I think I recommended once before, but that thing before was a six episode series, and this is just a slightly longer than an hour special. It's called Kunk on Life, ah hosted by Philomena Kunk, who is portrayed by Diane Morgan, ah but is is a great ah character in her own right, um focusing specifically on
00:26:27
Speaker
the origins of life, how we came to be, and then eventually ah asking some questions and looking into religion. And um it is it is an absolute delight if you're curious about whether this continues the Pump Up the Jam gag from the original Kogon Earth series.
00:26:48
Speaker
um it does good but it's also just very funny otherwise uh you're going to hear some stories about her mate paul and the weird shit that he did and uh some very uh ridiculous questions where she's you know totally going off on a tangent there's also an incredible bit about one of the things she talks about one of the aspects of life she talks about is art. And she starts getting into this thing about Vincent van Gogh. And um i kind I don't want to really give away the gag, but the gag about the Vincent van Gogh painting is truly incredible.
00:27:32
Speaker
i So if ah if you're looking for a fun funny thing to watch that's a little over an hour long on Netflix, not a huge time commitment, ah you should watch Conk on Life, ah which I had a ton of fun watching. Chris, those are our checks and recs, which means it's time to talk about some comics. Let's do it.
Comic Book Discussions and Reviews
00:28:00
Speaker
Chris, I sincerely do not remember the last time
00:28:04
Speaker
There was a week that had so many good comics that we had a hard time deciding which three to talk about. Yeah. Yeah. And and maybe that's just because it it happens to be all the comics that that we read were great this week. But boy, I read this week's comics and had the thought like, are our comics going to get us through it?
00:28:35
Speaker
If they're all like this week, yeah. I think these things are actually good. We'll go from here. We'll see where it goes from here. But this week was a truly stacked week of comics. And the winner of the Textures Choice for this week is the comic that you have declared the greatest comic of all time, Godzilla's Monsterpiece Theater number three.
00:29:01
Speaker
Yes, and you know that it's the greatest comic of all time because it has an alternate cover by none other than Jay Ganso. Friend of the show. Friend of the show, Jay Ganso, did a cover. This is the- An incredible cover. Oh yeah. This is the three issue Tom Shioli miniseries that is part of the, like, ongoing IDW Godzillaverse? Monsterverse? I think we can safely say that it is... it is its own thing. It is certainly not in continuity with anything else other than a few very specific things with which it is in continuity. Yes, but it it is it it is a part of that line, yeah which makes it even wilder. But what it is... It reads like a fan comic.
00:29:58
Speaker
Well that's what's great about it right like yes just like transformers versus GI i Joe which. Felt like Tom she only smashing together toys in a toy box. This is Tom she only just knocking together every.
00:30:20
Speaker
public domain literary character plus Godzilla that he can. I don't want to speak for Tom Shealy, friend of the show. What are our fiffs? Yeah. But I feel like the impetus of this has got to be thinking about Godzilla versus whatever. And you know, like the Godzilla versus Kong movies, and also the Godzilla versus ah whatever comics that have come out, Godzilla versus Justice League, Godzilla versus whatever. And then taking that to an extreme that you could kind of do with anything in the Godzilla role,
00:31:04
Speaker
which is doing ah doing a Kim Newman, doing an Alan Moore, taking all your public domain faves and going hard. And what's great about this is that it is it's ah all of comics has been waiting for this because the great Gatsby just entered public domain. Exactly.
00:31:25
Speaker
the like Sherlock Holmes is in it who I actually kind of surprised she only is able to get away with that because even now the Arthur Conan Doyle estate is pretty protective of Sherlock Holmes. Sherlock Holmes is public domain though. I know, but even then they're like weirdly protective of Sherlock Holmes. Yeah. Even now. Like even now. But Dracula's in it, of course. ah Thomas Edison is in it. Yeah, just Thomas Edison.
00:32:01
Speaker
Also, Jules Verne. You might think it's like Captain Nemo or somebody, but no, it's Jules Verne. No, it's Jules Verne. And when he shows up in the first issue, it's just like Jules Verne colon cyborg. Yes, amazing. And then there's also the time machinist from the time machine. Yeah, whose name is unrevealed.
00:32:25
Speaker
And that does not, I mean, I have not read the time machine, so I don't know if that's ah an aspect of the time machine, but I do know that that doesn't, like that's not setting up anything. It's just mentioned that like, oh yeah, he doesn't give us his name. Yeah, he's, it's just ah the time machine or the time machinist is what his, yeah, his name is given as being. Yeah, there is a panel,
00:32:53
Speaker
in in this last issue. Oh, he's he's not named in the in the book, The Time Machine. Well, there we go. He's anonymous, yeah. There's a panel in this last issue that I don't even like, i i'm I'm not going to spoil it. And I know that we spoil a great many things on this show. and i We have the assumption that if we're talking about new comics that people are going to be reading those new comics. yeah it's It's a review, not a view.
00:33:23
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But buddy, there is a page in this that made me laugh out loud until I had tears in my eyes. I think I know what you're talking about. Because, oh, ah Baron von Brinkenstein is in this as well. I forgot about him. After you I saw that you finished reading the issue, I couldn't wait to bring it up. Yes. it's Absolutely.
00:33:54
Speaker
Uh, if you missed out on this one, I know that we didn't talk about the first two issues. It's a three issue series. It's, it's the best comic that's ever been printed. It's, it's the best comic. It's it's the best comic and the most comic. It's in the running for some Gordies, some, some, some next year Gordies already. Yeah. Yeah. Like it, it has set the bar.
00:34:22
Speaker
that is going to be hard to top. ah There is a a cutaway sequence in Dracula's castle. Yeah. As soon as I got to that page with that cutaway, I was like, this is going to be for Chris's favorite comic of all time. Yeah. Yeah. There's like a little mini Castlevania in the middle of this one. ah Absolutely phenomenal. Tom Shioli done done it again. He done done it again. He speaking of doing it again. Our boy Larry.
00:34:52
Speaker
Dun-dun it again. Larry Dun-dun it again. Larry stays winning. G.I. Joe number 313 is a comic where Destro, after the Baroness has been shot, Destro was hunting down Cobra Commander, who was in like a locked, secure vault room. But realizing that Destro might be able to get to him,
00:35:22
Speaker
puts on his like super duper heavy armor, like his incredibly advanced armor. Destro goes above the ah the vault and explodes it from above, explodes all of this artillery, all of this ordnance from above to to blast it open.
00:35:48
Speaker
But somehow Cobra Commander survives that that blast. And so then it's a big Destro Cobra Commander fight for a bunch of pages, and it whips. Yeah, um but first first off, Destro kills Serpentor. Yes, yes. And there is an a truly incredible line where Destro's like, hey, look, you are unmatched in hand-to-hand combat and horse cavalry.
00:36:18
Speaker
but I have laser-guided missiles. That was in the previous issue, but yeah. That's in the previous issue. That kicks ass. Destro, then, in the last issue, shows up and all the Arashikage ninjas and Zartan and the Dreadnocks are all hanging out outside and they're like, hey Destro, we' let's team up and take down Cobra Commander. And Destro's like, thank you, but no.
00:36:46
Speaker
I'm good. Like you don't gotta do that. Y'all can just wait out here. I'm gonna go settle some shit. Yeah. Yeah. So this issue is just Destro beating the living ship of Cobra Commander. But Cobra Commander having armor that gives him a fighting chance against him until he turns up the power too high and drains the battery. Yeah. oh There are some, there are some Chris Mooney Ham pages in this that sure would make a great present for your boy.
00:37:16
Speaker
I was wondering why Chris Mooneyham had not drawn some of the previous issues of this book. And I think I know why now. Yeah. Because he he was putting so much of that good good into these two issues. Yeah, there's a there's a page where like the the center image is Destro reloading his gun.
00:37:45
Speaker
And it's Scarlett, Snake Eyes, Jinx, Storm Shadow, and Dom Moreno in like the inset, like JLA, JSA panels on one side. And the other side is Zartan and the Dreadnocks. And it's like, look, I know someone, someone who doesn't love GI i Joe the way that I love GI Joe, someone who doesn't love Destro, someone who's wrong is gonna buy that page for like $40,000 or whatever.
00:38:13
Speaker
And Chris Mooneyham should sell that page to whoever will pay him the most money for it. But also, that should be mine. They're not going to love it the way you love it. They're not going to love it the way I do. Yeah. So Matt, yeah we needed to put put a team together.
00:38:33
Speaker
You son of a bitch. ah No, absolutely great issue. like the most classic Larry Hama there could be. It's so good. It's so good. ah yeah i mean I've been loving the return of Larry on GI i Joe since it started, but I feel like this issue is like really firing on all cylinders. Yeah, man. It's it's ah it's it's it's an all-time classic. It's great stuff.
00:39:03
Speaker
ah Finally, we're going to talk about issue two of the new Metamorpho series by Al Ewing and Steve Lieber. Two dudes who are some of our dudes. Yeah, and Al Ewing is fully doing a Bob Haney impression, oh which is not a bad thing. It's kind of the way I feel like Metamorpho should always be written. Like, it's weird to think about how the original one of metamorphos like 18 issues. It's not long at all. Yeah. And then really when he comes back, it's, it's Mike W. Barr bringing it back for outsiders that kind of defines him for the modern age. Uh, well for whatever you want to call the eighties and nineties. And then there's like, there's a little bit of time where, where just metamorphos not around.
00:40:04
Speaker
Then everybody reads that Bob Haney run and they're like, oh, this is this is great. This and until ah Godzilla Monster Peace Theater. ah This is the best comic ever. hu And Al Ewing fully just. I was reading this. And I hit dialogue. Where I was like. It's rare that I hit dialogue and I don't know how it came together.
00:40:35
Speaker
because he's doing an impression. because i think I think it goes beyond like influence. He's doing a Bob Haney impression. but He's not writing like Al Ewing. He's writing like Bob Haney by Al Ewing.
00:40:51
Speaker
and
00:40:53
Speaker
it He's doing an impression and then a line is so good and it fits in with everything else and fits in with the aesthetic, but it also like is the punchline of a joke that gets set up before. And it's like, I don't know. I wouldn't know where to begin with that. You know, like I, a lot of times like the, the good lines come first and I build the story around them. This, I don't know. I just don't know how, you how it, how it was done.
00:41:25
Speaker
And I love that feeling. I love the feeling of like looking at a comic and looking at a a script and and just, it's like architecture, you know? Like everything is supporting and it's all elegant. Well, you know, like when you read comics, when you were a kid, you didn't think about how they were made. You know, you just like,
00:41:54
Speaker
this is the story and you're taking it in and what happens is what happens. And then there's a point where you kind of like become aware that people make these things. And certainly now like you read a comic and it's like, Oh, okay. Here's how they thought of this. And here's how they put that story together. And this is probably what's going to happen next. And all of that, like you can't remove those thoughts from your brain.
00:42:23
Speaker
So it is like a magic trick to read a comic or really see any kind of story, any sort of entertainment do that. Like like like like present itself in a way where it's like, here's a story and you don't know what's going to happen. And like you're gonna all that other stuff is going to fall away and you're just going to take this in in as a story.
00:42:50
Speaker
you know To me, that's like the best kind of of entertainment now, the the stuff that makes me forget that I also know how to do this. Yeah, yeah very much so. ah like on the To kind of link it to GI i Joe, in the way that Larry's riffing on the work that he's been doing for the past nearly 40 years,
00:43:19
Speaker
This feels like the way you remember Metamorpho, if the way you remember Metamorpho wasn't also like how it was and how good it is, because it's undeniably like a modern Al Ewing comic with like modern Al Ewing sensibilities, but there's a fun little like retro aesthetic, but the retro aesthetic is being used to comment on like,
00:43:43
Speaker
on current things. like It's it really smart. It's really well done. I loved it. And Steve Lever, I mean, it's one of the best, one of the Alzheimer's. Certainly the best modern artist for physical comedy. Yeah. I think Steve Lever is I would have to sit down and do the math, but if he's not top five living comics artists, he's top 10, definitely. Doing a slightly different style here than what I've seen from him lately, yeah kind of like a throwback of its own, like a sort of modern take on a, you know, sexy style. On Ramona Frayden? On Ramona Frayden, yeah, for sure.
00:44:36
Speaker
ah but a great looking book, uh, without a doubt. All right, Chris, we had to a lot of good comics to talk about. Now we got to talk about what is raw. there was no traininging or triing of me and my bra lived like a man but i'm animal raw Chris, our first submission for this raw segment comes from Philip Neff. And this is a moment from one of Philip's personal favorite runs, the 2014 Silver Surfer series. Okay, so we haven't read it. I've read some of it, but I do think we can rank this moment and I would say that it is raw. It is the moment from issue 9 of the 2014 Silver Surfer series
00:45:31
Speaker
where the Silver Surfer surfs the moon into Galactus. I mean, that sounds pretty good. Yeah. Like this is the Dan Slott, Mike Allred run, right? It is the Slott Allred run on Silver Surfer. Philip actually sent some pages. So I will forward it. I'm looking at it right now. Okay. He's doing it. Doing what? He's surfing. He's surfing the moon.
00:46:02
Speaker
Yeah. Boy, that's how you do it. And then he shouts Galactus and rides that moon right into him. Man, that's good. That is good. I'd say that's pretty fucking raw. I gotta say that this is a run. This is a catch up candidate for sure. Yeah, yeah.
00:46:27
Speaker
It's when you see that you're like, yeah, it's that Michael Red Silver Server book that for some reason I didn't read while it was coming out. I read the beginning of it. And for whatever reason, yeah, I just didn't ah finish it out. But it's it's pretty fucking rad. This this bit. And there's a big two page spread of the moon just exploding on Galactus. I, I I do love that the line, he's surfing, he's surfing the moon is in there. Because that's the thing, right? it's You gotta you got to do the thing that only you can do in the comic. And the Silver Surfer, by God, he serves. That's what he does. That's what he does. That's that's who he is and how he came to be.
00:47:21
Speaker
Here's, here's the one thing that I would say maybe reduces the rawness of this just a bit. It does little to Galactus, but annoy him. ah Well, I mean, he is Galactus. He is Galactus, but like it doesn't even like, he doesn't miss a step. He, he just like kind of floats there and then his reaction is to say surfer. I mean, did you want him to act like when Hitler got set on fire by the human torch?
00:47:49
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't have to go that far, but it like he could be like, ow. I said that jokingly, and now I'm like, damn, what if he had, though? He could be like, surfer, that hurt. But he was like, no! No! Ow! Ow! The more we talk about, the more I think that needs to move up the list. I think about that all the time. It's pretty high, but it is...
00:48:16
Speaker
It is one of the greatest single panels in comics history now that I think about it. Oh, it's, I mean, it's number five. It's, it's pretty high, but man, it maybe should be number one. Don't tell anybody. i No, don't tell anyone.
00:48:37
Speaker
God, it's so funny. Anyway, uh, this is like, he serves it, man. He serves the moon. Yeah, man. That's good. It's real good. there's There's nothing I can add to it. He sure does. He sure does. Where do you where do you want to put it, Matt? I think i i it definitely makes the list. It makes the list. I just don't quite know where. I do think it would go a little higher
00:49:14
Speaker
if it had any effect on Galactus at all, other than just getting his attention. Fair. Fair. I can tell you, it doesn't go above Gohan going Super Saiyan 2. No, no, that's, that's way higher than I'm looking. Yeah, but that's an absolute ceiling for me. Like, I don't think it goes goes above that time that Dr. Strange tell told Johnny Sword that there's no Heaven in Hell.
00:49:45
Speaker
to heaven is hell and god and the devil are the same person yeah yeah yeah i don't think it goes above that i think i think it probably goes above ghost rider kicking thor in the face with his motorcycle very similar o i don't think it's more rob than lachie ripping out so but sebastian shaw's eye I mean, that's true. And when Sparky, the good dog, drove a car into a cop, and and I believe that similarly, there's a line of dialogue in that. It's like that dog's driving a car. Yes, there is. I think it does go above Hulk telling Black Bolt that he didn't come to the moon for a whisper. but I can live with that. Which is raw, but, you know, expected to a degree.
00:50:40
Speaker
If the Joker had become King of the Surf and all the Surfers, would the Silver Surfer fall under his his domain? This is a great question. This is a great question.
00:50:55
Speaker
Because it because it is it just all the Surfers on Earth or is it all Surfers everywhere? I mean, he says King of the Surf and all the Surfers. That's true. i Man, I'm going to be turning that over in my head for a while.
00:51:12
Speaker
He is kind of declaring that himself, though. I don't know if it's legally binding. Great point.
00:51:20
Speaker
Alright, that's gonna go into the list at the number 60. Okay. Our next submission is from Jason LeDoux, which is from a recent comic, Strange Volume 2,
00:51:40
Speaker
Uh, number 13, in which Cleo reminds the brett Blasphemy Cartel that she is not of earth. That is when Cleo whips the entire Blasphemy Cartel's ass. Yeah. Yeah. No, that, that, uh, owns. Yeah. That was good. That was good. shit The, the, the Jed McKay run on Dr. Strange running through death of Dr. Strange. It's not an issue 13.
00:52:10
Speaker
of the Strange series. It must be in... it's that's it's It's early on. Is it in issue one? Oh, yes, it is. It is. ah It's in issue one ah where she's like, Strange is here and and i'm I'm gonna fuck you guys up. Yeah. It's like that scene in ah Nobody starring Bob Odenkirk.
00:52:42
Speaker
Very much like that, yeah. Yeah, um, she- she flays a man?
00:52:50
Speaker
She sure does. Yeah, uh, feh. Silver, cold iron, runes, grooving lead. I'm sure that this is very effective against hedge witches and gutter mages, but I am not that. And then she flays a man? Like his skin is off?
00:53:11
Speaker
Like like he's gee he's bones now. He he has become bones. he He becomes bones because she does magic that rips his skin off. And it's not like it makes his skin disappear. No, it it is removed from his bones. It's Dyer's scourging ray. It's gold. Yeah. That's pretty raw.
00:53:39
Speaker
you know You never see Dr. Strange remove someone's skin. But that's because Dr. Strange is not... This is a different strange. This this is Clea. Yeah, man. Clea is not from here. And she is not fucking around. She might as well have said, I'm not fucking around. Yeah.
00:54:05
Speaker
Oh, then she goes home and pets her dog. What what a great... Which works, I mean.
00:54:13
Speaker
what is That's what we all want. To remove people's skin? Matt? Well, to go home and pet our dog. for after After doing the work we have to do, we go home and pet our dog. We're learning something about you today, and I don't- I don't want to remove skin. I do want to- Don't know if I like what I'm hearing, Matt. After a hard day of work, go have ah a nice relaxing time at home. Okay.
00:54:41
Speaker
All right. So I think this is raw. I don't think it's like top of the list raw, but it's good. I mean, like if, if it was specified in the submission and then she, she uses magic to rip a man's skin off and makes him bones, makes him the Fox TV procedural based on the life and works of forensic anthropologist Kathy Rijks. Wait, really? That's based on a real person? Bones? Yeah, Bones is based on a real person. Well, it's it's based on on, she also writes novels.
00:55:27
Speaker
But her novels are based on her expertise as a real life forensic anthropologist, yes. So Temperance Brennan is the character in her novels? Yes, which is very funny because in on the show Temperance Brennan writes novels and the character is Kathy Reichs. Oh, that's funny. Yeah, it's it's a good bit. It's a good bit. I enjoy it.
00:55:55
Speaker
Anyway, anyway, she makes a man bones. She sure does. Let's see. Look, we all gotta turn into bones eventually. But I think we can all agree that the the more sudden that is, the worse.
00:56:14
Speaker
We would prefer it to be gradual. Certainly. Certainly. Is this more raw than Catwoman whipping Prometheus in the beanbag? I mean, that shit's pretty fucking funny, a dude.
00:56:28
Speaker
Just bam, right in there. It's right in the beanbag, yeah. It's like... Kaboom, right in there. Yambag City is what it is. It's a real rocket booster. I mean, it probably is.
00:56:50
Speaker
That, for me, just probably wished he was Bones. At that moment. After that? After that? He was like, boof, I wish I was Bones. Then I wouldn't have to feel this. Whoa. I don't know that it's more raw than John Constantine tricking three devil devils into saving his life. That is pretty good. Yeah. That is pretty good stuff. I would be per possibly willing to put it above the champion, not beating the thing. Cause we talked about how that's more good than raw. Yeah. Yeah. You know what I mean?
00:57:30
Speaker
So I think maybe this is the new number 71. I think that's a good place for it. Okay. And that's thats ain't good that's in good company. That might sound low in a top 100, but it is the top 100. And everything on this list is good. This isn't just a top heavy list. this is There were things we said, this doesn't make it. You know what I'm saying? Yes. Making it on the list means you're good.
00:58:01
Speaker
Yeah, this is the cream of the crop. Then the cream always runs to the top. Nick Whalen has a submission that I think we've got a DQ because we pretty much have it on the list. It's the entirety of Amazing Spider-Man number 59.
00:58:20
Speaker
which is the Spider-Man Tombstone fight issue. Yeah, that's pretty good. It's pretty good, but we we ranked the it the transition from 58 into 59. And I think those are too close to the same thing. I think i think that's that's fair. So, Nick, good submission, but I think we've already got something too close to it on the list. Matthew Burdius,
00:58:50
Speaker
has something something interesting. Okay. I will read the entire submission.
00:59:02
Speaker
I'm nominating a moment from the densest collection of raw moments to ever happen in the Aughts era webcomic, Aikwood's run from January 25th to March 30th, 2006. Yes, the great outdoor fight.
00:59:15
Speaker
The challenge is there are so many raw moments in the fight, from beef running over a guy's leg before the fight begins and telling Ray, I ain't Frederick H. Coca-Cola, but I know something about being on brand, to Ray elbow-dropping a hippie during recumbent Tai Chi, to the final confrontation between Rodney and son of Rodney that leads to Ray and Beef tearing everything down. It's hard to choose just one moment.
00:59:39
Speaker
I know sometimes stories like Batman Year One can have multiple raw moments that said you keep it to one entry per person. So I'm the most meta war rocket Ajax raw moment in the fight. It might be disqualified, but hear me out. You guys always talk about how reading, seeing, experiencing a true raw moment makes you want to take your shirt off and maybe do some pushups. That's why I'm submitting the ache wood from February 27th of 2006.
01:00:05
Speaker
in which the gang back home are catching up on Ray's fight progress via Barry's blog. Lyle has a very ah raw, War Rocket Ajax, raw reaction to the news and loudly announces, God, man, Ray's destroying. I'm so pumped I could play a trumpet with my cock.
01:00:29
Speaker
yeah and so Vlad is also hyped and says, such news is totally getting me in mood to fight. Who is in room is needing his ass kicked, because Vlad have you a recipe for two burns in a pickic buns and a pickle. He and Lyle head to the backyard to brawl it out as Corbodilius bear hides his trumpet. I know that is it isn't raw in the traditional sense, but man getting so pumped you have to go out and wrestle, so sp speaks to experiencing a raw moment.
01:00:55
Speaker
I also figured you two can always throw in throw out the suggestion and still get in a foot good five to 10 minutes of talking about the great indoor fight. Feel free to expand. Maybe the entire fight is raw enough for an entry as a whole or change the section of the fight. So that is Matt Bernius's submission.
01:01:15
Speaker
All right, Matt, here's here's what I'm going to say. That doesn't make the list. No.
01:01:23
Speaker
Talking about the fight doesn't make the list. But I do think that there is a a defined, rawest moment of the great outdoor fight. i I'm interested to see what yours might be because I also sort of have a thought as to what it might be. oh Become the ruling body, dude.
01:01:50
Speaker
but come but Yes, when they decide to burn it all down, and when Ray throws the Molotov cocktail made out of the the liquor bottle at one of those Jeeps, that whips so hard. But they fight so hard that they begin fighting the concept of the fight itself.
01:02:17
Speaker
Yes, it's... Look, I don't know nothing about no Suzanne Collins. I don't know nothing about no Suzanne Collins. I liked the Hunger Games movies just fine. I think the Hunger Games are probably good books. But the first Hunger Games book came out when?
01:02:41
Speaker
Oh, jeez, I don't know. to ah The movie came out in 2012.
01:02:49
Speaker
let's see Let's see when the first book came out. um But the first Hunger Games ends exactly like the Great Outdoor Fight does. It really does. 2008. It came out two years after the Great Outdoor Fight, the comic, and I'm not saying Suzanne Collins got the idea from the Great Outdoor Fight, but Katniss deciding she's not gonna play by the rules anymore,
01:03:19
Speaker
is just like Beef and Ray.
01:03:25
Speaker
That's all I'm saying. and But yeah, when when Ray says, become the ruling body dude, and the Jeeps come out, and he says, he says bring on the Jeeps, goddamn you. And then he makes that Molotov cocktail leather, that Christian Brothers bottle, and throws it at the Jeep. That is beautifully, patently raw.
01:03:49
Speaker
Yeah. And especially because the other option is for him to beat up his oldest friend. Yeah. And like, that's what, that's what beef wants him to do. He's like, cause that's perfect for the legend, right? I believe the phrase is the dude, so raw, he beat down his oldest friend. But the, the lot, first of all, the line becomes the really body dude. We should all take that to heart. Yes.
01:04:15
Speaker
Yes. But also, when he says, why should the fight get to decide how the fight is won? That shit? That's tattoo shit. Well, the fact that Rodney shows up and tells son of Rodney, hey, one of you one of you has to win. So I'll see whichever one of you wins after.
01:04:44
Speaker
And that race takeaway from that is that's not how it's got to be. Yeah. buts That's the way it's always been, but that's not how it has to be. Yeah. The fight doesn't get to decide who wins the fight. Yeah. Become the ruling body. Become the ruling body, dude. That is so good. And then like what the Jeeps like crash into the fence and then the fence gets like,
01:05:14
Speaker
move well he He throws the firebomb at the Jeep and the Jeep crashes. Then he pulls the dude out of the Jeep and beats the shit out of that guy. Oh, he beats the shit out of him. Yeah. And then they get in the Jeep and destroy the fence. That's right. Yeah. And then they, and then they go to, uh, like beef's uncle's restaurant. Yeah. Yeah. Great outdoor fight owns. Um,
01:05:41
Speaker
I guess I would put it just below Magneto putting the red skull in a fucking hole, but like philosophically. It's philosophically become the ruling body is as raw as it gets. Yeah, man. Now I think it is worth mentioning some runners up in the great outdoor fight for Ross. Sure. Sure. Elbow drop where Ray says, I am rude. Classic.
01:06:11
Speaker
up there. Great. Incredible moment. Classic. Absolutely classic. But I think the even rawer moment is when Ray gets into the fight with that dude with the cowboy hat and rips his face off. Yeah, the the the Toby Keith guy. Yeah. Yeah. and And just for real tears his face off. He turns his face into bones.
01:06:37
Speaker
Well, cause that guy gets, gets like the upper hand on Ray for a second, right? Yeah. Like he comes rolling up and he says, you the Packer Wood who pretended to be the son of Rodney Stubbs. And Ray says like, it depends. Are you the guy who ordered a blow a blowjob from? Not in the full line, but close. And that guy just like cracks Ray in the nose.
01:07:03
Speaker
and tells him he's a liar and that he's he's faking being the son of Rodney. And then Ray pops up and just rips the lower half of that guy's face right off. Yeah, he he grabs him by the face and rips his face off. And then Bros. Beef tells the history of like when that happened, something like that happened before in 1984.
01:07:31
Speaker
Creditor fights great. It's so good. But yeah, it's like, those are the two other moments I immediately think of. I am rude, and the guy getting his face ripped off. But there's nothing wrong than become the ruling body, dude. Yeah. Yeah, man. And again, I think we need to keep that one close to our hearts.
01:08:00
Speaker
Look, Matt, I appreciate that you really tried to go for something because I think at one point we said don't go for obvious things, but then we turned it around to actually do go for obvious things. I actually do go for the obvious things. And I appreciate that you're trying to find a non-obvious moment here.
01:08:27
Speaker
But there's a clear, rawest moment of the great outdoor fight. Yeah. I think... Damn. Damn.
01:08:42
Speaker
I think it's at least number nine. Wow, you would put it that high. I think it might be number eight. I mean, if we're if we're going that high, why not make it number six?
01:08:55
Speaker
I don't think it goes above Gordon giving flasks a baseball bat. Well, fuck, maybe it is. It's not going to go above the Golden HU towards killing Hitler. No, because that shit's fucking hilarious. But like six, eight, and nine are all quotes. Like the entries on our list are quotes.
01:09:22
Speaker
Are you banned or feed from hell? You had your chance, now it's my turn. It's a nice piece of work, Kingpin, you shouldn't have signed it, right? Become the ruling body dude is a better quote than all of those. It really is. You know, i number six, it's number six. Yeah, yeah. Like, because it's a great quote, and it is exactly the action you need to match it.
01:09:53
Speaker
what's What's the, do do you happen to know the date on that strip? Uh, I was looking at it just now. Become the ruling body dude is in March 20th, 2006. I think we also have to include, uh, March 21st with the Christian brothers, brothers Molotov cocktail.
01:10:21
Speaker
Like those two strips are the raw moment, I think.
01:10:30
Speaker
All right. but Put that in the notes. Yes. March 20th and 21st, become the ruling body, then throw a Molotov cocktail at a Jeep. Matt, thank you for for sending that in. That did get some good, aqueous conversation going. Our next submission is from Peter Swanson.
01:10:52
Speaker
And, uh, this is an, okay, this is, this is interesting. Peter says, I'd like to submit what I think is the hardest moment my boy cyclops has ever had from house of X number two, when Xavier and Magneto brief Scott on Nimrod and Scott simply says, does it need to, does it need to be done? Yeah. Hell yeah. And Xavier replies, yes. And then Scott says that it will be done. Yeah, no, that's, that's just hard. Like,
01:11:23
Speaker
I brought that up on on Hard Choices. I was on an episode of Hard Choices, which if you don't know, Hard Choices is a podcast. where A podcast I have not been invited on. it Matt, i will I will put in a word for you. it it doesn't I was about to say, it doesn't really seem like your thing, but it doesn't really seem like my thing either. But it is a podcast where ah a a selection of Characters is given to you and you rank them based on fuckability um And it's entirely it's it's based it's entirely vibes based and it is my curse That I always know the correct answer I Was on the like like I immediately know when I am given the category I immediately know who is number one
01:12:22
Speaker
I was on the Dragon Ball characters episode, I was on the Batman villains episode, and I was on the X-Men episode. And the reason I say it's a curse, ah because A, it's not very practical, all things considered, to have that as a skill, and B, I didn't want Cyclops to be the most fuckable X-Men. I didn't want that to be true. Famously,
01:12:51
Speaker
one of my least favorite X-Men. But it's true. And when they sit when the other people on that podcast said, we're surprised and they're like, wow, why do you think that? This is the moment I pointed to.
01:13:11
Speaker
It's pretty undeniable. cause it's Cause it's not like it's perfectly in keeping with Cyclops as a character. That is what he would say. What is wild about this to me is that when root we rank this, because we will, this will be the third moment from House of X on this list. Uh, yeah, man. House of X was raw as shit. That's unbelievable.
01:13:50
Speaker
Yeah, man. like a single six issue series got ah three places on a hundred entry list. Yeah, man. House of X was raw as shit. Yeah. And look, I realized that there's, there's some recency bias in play for sure. You know, the Krakow era having just recently ended, but also House of X was raw as shit.
01:14:20
Speaker
Like, yeah, I mean, look, I think part of it is. House of X is on people like people is in people's memories. They, they remember it. And so they're, they're submitting moments from it. And it is also raw shit. Like they're also moments from Grant's X-Men run that we could also include,
01:14:44
Speaker
but that was longer ago. Yeah, i would I would say that that that this, for me, replaced a Morrison moment as the the Prime Cyclops moment. ah Because for me, it did replace Next One Breaks Your Ankle.
01:15:02
Speaker
like Well, it didn't replace it. It put that one in second place as the best Cyclops moment. But yeah, I knew going into this list that we were going to get, like, Garth Ennis kind of the guy to beat in this.
01:15:17
Speaker
You know, like, Garth Ennis can write you a raw moment in his sleep. Uh, and I knew for sure we would be getting, like, there would be some Wal Simonson. I knew Frank was going to show up. Well, I mean, we, we put Frank in the list. on Like we, we put Flass, uh, Gordon giving Flass a bat on the list. So yeah, man, the, the, uh, stealth, uh, dark horse candidate,
01:15:46
Speaker
Jonathan Higman has written some raw fucking shit yeah You ain't kidding like for a writer who is largely known for being Sort of cold or Or for not for not having a lot of like Deep emotion in their stories. I suppose you could say he's he seems very like technical isn't the right word, but like, but yeah. yeah I think if you were really gonna like, like, do like, do a a serious criticism of Hickman or some of the the the criticism of Hickman I've seen is that he's way more focused on plot than character. So like, is the word. Yeah. ah Cold and detached is like,
01:16:43
Speaker
the more, I don't know, harsh way of saying that, I suppose. But like, for a guy who's not known for focusing on character, who's known for focusing more on plot, that dude can really knock out a great like, punchy character moment when he wants to. Yeah, man. For sure. He's He's the stealth guy to beat. Yeah. On this list. Um, yeah. issue Which issue is that actually in? Cause it's it not in number two. It's a number one. It's a number one. Okay. That's how that shit starts. Right. Yeah. It's, it's some of the hardest shit of all time. It's a great way of saying like, here's what Cyclops is about. Yeah. Like immediately.
01:17:42
Speaker
It's one of those things where it's like, you not only immediately get like, oh, this is what Cyclops is about. You read that and you're like, oh, right, that is what Cyclops is about. Like that's, like I said, that's what Cyclops would say. Cause that's his whole deal. Does it need to be done? Then it's going to get done. It's like, I think some people would potentially read that as Cyclops kind of having like unyielding obedience. But I don't think that's what it's trying to say. I think what it's trying to say is that Cyclops is a guy who will get things done for the cause. Yeah, exactly. It needs to be done. If he believes in the cause, he will do anything.
01:18:43
Speaker
to do what will help the cause. Yeah, because the context of this, I got so excited, I do not remember if you said the context, is basically Professor X saying, hey, I need you to go on a suicide mission. Yeah. And that's his response.
01:19:00
Speaker
Kicks ass, dude. Cyclops? God, i hate i hateed um I hate that this is true, Matt. Cyclops is the second-rawest X-Men.
01:19:13
Speaker
Now, the the moment from Grant that you would have put first before, is that um his and him and Wolverine in the bar? No, that's it's it's right at Xavier's.
01:19:29
Speaker
Oh, yeah, okay. When he sends the warning shot, and he goes, next one breaks your ankle. And then I think it's glob vermin, runs at him. And the next panel, he's breaking glob's ankle with an optic blast. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, the thing that immediately comes to mind for me is ah him and Wolverine at the bar. Yeah, man. that's it all Which is also like to fucking rad. Look, man, I don't always like him.
01:19:59
Speaker
When he's raw, he's raw as shit. Yeah, yeah. i I swear, I'm looking through these issues now, and I cannot find this particular moment at all.
01:20:16
Speaker
Is it in powers of X? No, no, because it's... I mean, it's when he's going to fight ah Master Mold. Yeah, that happens in number three.
01:20:28
Speaker
It's in number three? I thought it was in number one. The mission is in number three. Then it's in number, it must be in number three. I had it wrong. I got too excited. Okay. Matt, I got too excited. Too excited?
01:20:48
Speaker
are ah to To fuck, maybe it is in number two and I just missed it there. Because the briefing on the mission like has already started at the start of number three. so Let me see, let me look here. I don't know. Yeah, House of X. This week was the first time since then the comics have been that good.
01:21:15
Speaker
Really, really good stuff, yeah. Yeah, man. What comics? When they're great, they're the best thing.
01:21:27
Speaker
Just like pro wrestling. like When they're bad. When they're bad. I mean, and they're often bad. But when they're good, boy.
01:21:42
Speaker
Boy, when they're good. Is this in Powers of X? It can't be. I'm losing my mind as not being able to find it.
01:21:57
Speaker
It's, maybe it isn't Powers of X. I'm looking in Powers of X now. Yeah, me too. Powers of X is all the Moira stuff, right? No, House of X is all the Moira stuff. Oh, then maybe it isn't Powers of X. No, no, it's in Powers of, it it is in Powers of X number two. Powers of 10. Powers of 10, yeah. ah Yes, it is in Powers of 10 number two, where they show him Nimrod. like ah Xavier says, we think this is where Nimrod becomes operational. And Xavier says, listen to me, Scott, they have to be stopped. And Magneto goes, remember, this will be a frontal assault of an orbital station tens of millions of miles away, but but built by a secret organization whose sole purpose is the extinction of mutants. Can such a thing even be done? And that's when Cyclops says, does it need doing?
01:22:57
Speaker
And Xavier says, yes. And then he says, then it will be done. So that is in the context of Magneto saying, it may not even be possible. Yeah. Magneto said that. Yes. Magneto said, is this possible? Yeah. And Cyclops went, does it need doing? That's about the coldest shit, man.
01:23:23
Speaker
And the way it is paired with the art where it's just like close up on Cyclops's eyes, RB Silva just draws the top half or just like the middle of Cyclops's face. Fucking lens flares. It's, it's amazing. Rules. Rules hard. All right. Let's rank it. Then it will be done. Oh.
01:23:50
Speaker
It's good. It's another quote. It's another quote. I don't think it's. OK, we've got Wolverine saying you had your chance. Now it's my turn at number nine. Yeah, we've got Storm stabbing Kalisto in a knife fight at number 13. Right, we we've got the House of X moment from the mission where Nightcrawler and Wolverine teleport into the sun.
01:24:16
Speaker
I'll tell you this, it's better than that. It's better than that, okay. Is it better than Storm straight up stabbing Kalisto? I think it's similar because it's another example of someone showing who they are.
01:24:35
Speaker
But I do think it's below Storm stabbing Kalisto. I think it's below Hellboy snapping off his horns. I think it's above Wonder Woman blinding herself. I don't know, man. We got a lot of bones on this list. A lot of bones. Bones are raw. What's the happens with people's bones? Listen, bones are raw. I mean, bones? If you see bones, some shit has gone down. Bones, by definition, raw. Yes. Yes. I ain't never seen a cooked bone. Wait, have you never had soup?
01:25:14
Speaker
and Matt, it's going to blow your mind. You're going to love it. I like i liked that you kind of went into Jesse Ventura voice for a little bit there. Tell me about our cooked bone. I think it goes right below Stormstaff and Kalisto. Okay. I can, I can live with that. I can live with that. We have one more line separate submission, so let's get through it. And then we will be done with line separate submissions.
01:25:45
Speaker
And then from here on, it's just going to be standard submissions to fill out. But we've gone back over a year. Eight or nine more spots on the list. This is from Nick Whalen.
Debate on 'Raw Moments' in Comics
01:26:03
Speaker
The first page of New Gods number one, there came a time when the old gods died. I mean, I mean,
01:26:18
Speaker
i i
01:26:23
Speaker
This is troubling.
01:26:28
Speaker
Because on one level, that shit is raw. That shit's raw as hell. Can't even die when the old gods died. but It's a raw concept, but is it a raw moment? It's conceptually raw. Yes. I would say the depiction is raw.
01:26:47
Speaker
it's it's it's It's Jack Kirby drawing the god apocalypse. Right. But you don't know who any of these characters are. Well, they're the old gods, Matt. They're the old gods, but like... I mean, you know about the new gods. Or you know about the old gods. Ostensibly... Ostensibly they're the Asgardians, right? Because... No, it's 100% the Asgardians.
01:27:11
Speaker
Like, there's a dude on that page with a fucking winged helmet and a hammer. Yeah. Um, here's the thing though. This is just story set up for the store for the actual story. Yeah, but I like here's the thing. None of these are my objection to it. Okay. My objection to it is like is this level of mythology. This level of like cosmology.
01:27:45
Speaker
Is it raw? Can it be raw? I think it can, because I think we can put raw moments from Thor comics in here. We can put raw moments from subsequent issues of the new gods in here, of the fourth world saga. My objection is what I said to start with though. This is a concept, not a moment.
01:28:13
Speaker
See, that's that's interesting to me. Because my my objection would simply be that this, to me, is like putting the Bible on this list. Well, I think that's part of it, right? like it's it's not It's not a part of a story. It's a thing that's like, hey, think about if this wild thing happened.
01:28:41
Speaker
And then we're going to kick off a story from that. You know what I'm saying? I mean, like, I think that is part of why were it to be raw, why it would be like starting the story with epilogue. There came a time when the old gods died. That shit is tight. i When you put it in context, right? Cause it's not prologue. It's epilogue.
01:29:12
Speaker
Yeah, man. All of the new gods is epilogue to yeah the story of the old gods. The third world. Which, again, is ostensibly comics that Kirby had been working on for years and years before that, the Thor comics. Like, this is Kirby in his sly way saying, oh, Thor and all of them, they died.
01:29:40
Speaker
And this is the new thing that comes after. they i'm telling you And I'm telling you that story now. But again, I think it is, there's nothing in the scroll at are the the, yeah, the scroll at the start of a Star Wars movie that is anywhere close to this raw, right? I mean, correct. But this is like saying,
01:30:11
Speaker
the text that you see at a beginning at the beginning of a movie is raw, like the background stuff you need to know before the story starts. I mean, yeah, except for it is the old gods dying in in in in the last day.
01:30:32
Speaker
an ancient era passing into fiery holocaust. Like it is, we do see it. There's a dude riding a dragon. We see like a single image of it, but not, but it is not a sequential story. It's like, it's like a tapestry. Is what, Raul? Do you have tools, Raul? No.
01:31:00
Speaker
and No, it's not raw. We argued over whether it was a story and I lost, but I think we can agree that it's not raw. If we are to agree that that it is raw, then I than i think it is raw.
01:31:26
Speaker
I'm getting hung up on
01:31:32
Speaker
Cause we have always said that these were moments, right? I mean, that but this is like, this is not a moment, yeah but it, but it is, it's the definition of a moment. It's not the old gods died, but the old gods died over a long period of time. No, no, Matt, no, it happened on this page. I guess i happened one i guess it in one day.
01:32:01
Speaker
Yeah, but like Harris locked in battle with Unleashed Evil. I'm just saying. yeah Yeah, there's one image of it, but we don't actually really see it happen. We're told that it happens then, ah but like we see ah a huge explosion and then Orion comes out of it, right? Like.
01:32:26
Speaker
It is a thing that happens to set up the actual story that actually has raw stuff happening in it. I don't know. I've i've come around on it. I think we are both we were both right to say at the start that it it is not a raw moment. It it could be raw ah conceptually, but I don't think it's a raw moment. All right. We we we may have to we may have to table this one. Yeah.
01:32:57
Speaker
I think if we disagree on it this much, it should not be on the list. You know, that's, that's fair. I, I would easily and happily puts a lots of stuff from the new gods on here, but I like, like Darkseid saying, he's the tiger force. Let's go. I mean, yeah, that shit does. um The tiger force at the center of all things.
01:33:26
Speaker
let's go. um But that just, I don't know, it's like, again, it it feels to me like putting the tech scroll at the beginning of the movie, saying your favorite part of a movie was the tech scroll at the beginning. And like, okay, cool. But it's
01:33:50
Speaker
they might yes, there might have been something cooler in that text scroll in written than anything that happened in the movie, but It wasn't an event of the movie, you know That's that's I think ultimately where I come down It is great and it is memorable and it is arguably raw but I I'm i'm hung up on calling it a moment All right. That's the I think we can Again, I think we can dequeue it for reasons of being unable to come to a consensus. Yes. Okay. Uh, well, those are all of our line stepper submissions, which means next time we do raw, we are going to be trying to fill in the last nine spots on the list. We are currently at 91 moments. So we will be trying to fill in the last nine spots on the list.
01:34:46
Speaker
to make it 100, so we're we're on the race to 100 now.
01:34:52
Speaker
You cannot send
Contact and Closing Remarks
01:34:54
Speaker
in new Thursday Night Raw submissions because submissions are closed, but you can email us every story ever lists or let us know if you want to sponsor the show, which please do if you if you want to do that, or get in touch with us for any other reason by emailing us at warrocketpodcast at gmail dot.com.
01:35:17
Speaker
You can also follow us on Blue Sky. We're there at warrocketajax.com on Blue Sky. That's all you have to look for. We're on Tumblr at warrocketpodcast dot.tumblr dot.com. Our website is warrocketajax.com. It has every episode of the show we've ever done. warrocketwiki.com is the fan run repository of all the information we could want or need. You could want or need about this show, War Rocket Ajax.
01:35:47
Speaker
If you want to find me and my stuff, go to MattDWilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? Everybody can find me by going to the-isp.com. There's a couple of things there that you can read if you would like, and you can find links to other things that I do. Thanks for listening, everybody. We'll be back next week with another episode. We sure will, everybody. And until then, do not forget Black Lives Matter.
01:36:16
Speaker
Trans rights are human rights. As are abortion rights. Drag is not a crime. And cops aren't your friends. But we love you. We love you.