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73. Be Patient, Be Persistent- With Katrina Weller
77 Plays4 years ago
On this episode I chat with Katrina Weller. After experiencing the death of her mum at age 15, followed by the loss of four more relatives and her newborn nephew within a six year timeframe, Katrina became increasingly aware of the lack of conversation, discomfort and misunderstanding towards grief and loss.
She became a voice of advocacy within her own respective network and decided to extend this voice further through facilitation and workshops. Katrina now hosts the podcast "Grow with Grief" and is on a mission to make the uncomfortable, comfortable through conversation and storytelling.
Contact Katrina Weller: https://katrinapreislerweller.com/
Contact Kendra Rinaldi: https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
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Transcript
Feeling isolated after loss
00:00:01
Speaker
I could hear them talking about what they did at the weekend and the things they did with their mum. And the moment they noticed that I was there, they stopped the conversation. And I just remember feeling like I am no longer Katrina who, you know, is sporty and makes people laugh and is quite shy, but, you know, friendly. I am now Katrina whose mum died and that's all I am.
00:00:25
Speaker
And it was very, very isolating for me. And at the time I had a lot of resentment towards quite a few friends. But now I can see that actually it's just, you know, they're 15 year old as well. Like if the role was reversed, I probably wouldn't have known what to do.
Introduction to Grief Podcast
00:00:43
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:51
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:07
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:30
Speaker
Thank you so much for tuning into today's episode. I am excited to be chatting from across the ocean waters and continents and continents away. And a whole day difference between the two of us today with Katrina Weller all the way from Australia, right? We're talking, are you Australian or New Zealand? No, I'm not Australian, right? Australia, all the way from Australia.
00:01:57
Speaker
Katrina Weller is here with us. It's like 5.30 PM my time as we're recording, 8.30 AM her time. I'm so fortunate that we are so fortunate that we were able to find a time that worked for us, even though with the time difference here. So thank you so much.
00:02:14
Speaker
No, thank you for having me. I'm really excited to be here. I got up, especially at my pajamas, just for you. And I have not gotten out of my workout clothes yet, as I was telling you earlier. So anyway, thank you, Katrina, for contacting me.
Life with pets in Australia
00:02:30
Speaker
And I don't even know who contact who, because we're both following each other on Instagram and then being on the podcast. So let's talk a little bit as
00:02:39
Speaker
Sorry, she's like Evie is trying to make a bed underneath doing the Do your dogs do that too? Do you have one just one beagle a Beagle does he do that? He does and normally he howls as well, which is why the door is shut because I don't want him coming in here howling out
00:02:56
Speaker
Well, if he wants to howl and join us, I've had several guests that have had their dogs in the room with them just as mine just chooses to be. And I think she'd be louder if I did close the door. She'd be like barking and howling outside wanting to get in. So it's better for her to just be here.
00:03:13
Speaker
Okay. So after all that interruption, uh, tell us then about you. So you live, what part of Australia do you live in? So I'm currently in Melbourne. So I'm about 20 minutes in the city center. Um, but we moved here just under two years ago. So July, 2019. Um, and I live here with my partner and our rescue dog, Ronnie.
00:03:35
Speaker
Roni. Roni. Roni. R-O. You see with the accent. R-O. And then? Yeah. Yes. Okay. Okay. Roni. Oh, cute. How old is your rescue dog? Roughly two and a half. Roughly, yeah. But we're not, you know, it's a bit of a guess. So he was young, young. Yeah. He was quite young when we got him and he's a big old basset hand, we think. So he's got a really long body, but really short legs.
00:04:01
Speaker
They're just amazing. Do you find it so comforting to have an animal? Have you always had a pet or is
Struggles after moving
00:04:09
Speaker
this your first pet? This is my first ever dog. I've had other pets, but nothing cuddly really. So yeah, we kind of decided when we moved here, I was feeling quite lonely and I was struggling to find work when we first arrived.
00:04:25
Speaker
we decided we were going to get a dog at some point and we ended up just kind of getting one. And it's been the best thing, especially throughout lockdown to have that company. It's just been so comforting and the things they do, they just make you laugh all the time. Yeah. So you have then, you lived there then for a couple of years. Where did you live then before?
00:04:44
Speaker
So I grew up in England, so I've always lived in England until two years ago, and I lived right in the centre of England in a place called Derby. Not many people know it, it's near Nottingham, so near Robin Hood, but that's where I grew up. I did move away for a few years just for college, so I moved about a narrow way, but then I came back and when I went to university, it was in my hometown, so very much a home girl, but I did always have that
00:05:13
Speaker
taste for adventure and I always was traveling and getting away when I could. So this is a really big adventure for us and it's really exciting. So it's only been two years in Australia period? Yeah. Oh, and one year of that, one and a half years of that has been locked down.
00:05:30
Speaker
Oh, wow. Talk about adventure. Did you like the living room better or the office space? Which part of Australia did you like the most? I mean, I think garden's quite nice as well. That was quite good. Oh, great. Well, I hope you're able to now explore a little bit more of your new home now as you venture out now into the real world as things are opening up more.
00:05:56
Speaker
So what then, so you grew up there, so the change, was it based for work or just because you guys just wanted an adventure? So my partner got a job. So he almost relocated within the company that he was already with. And for a long time, he actually was on shore and he was like, I don't know whether to do that. We had only been together at this point for a year and a half.
00:06:17
Speaker
and I had always had these thoughts and ideas and dreams of moving to Australia or just at least traveling there for a year so yeah we spoke about it and just decided to do it because at the end of the day if we don't enjoy it we can just go home and even now you know if we really want to go home if we decide we don't enjoy it more we can we can get home so
00:06:40
Speaker
Whilst we don't have kids and we don't have that extra responsibility, it seems like the right time to just go ahead and do it. And it's the best decision we've ever made. We don't want to leave.
Impact of mother's death on personality
00:06:49
Speaker
You know, you said something that I wonder, has your partner also been through something hard like you have? No, no, no, he's been very fortunate. Because, yeah, no, the reason I ask that is I wonder if somebody like yourself, you know, and we're going to, of course, we're going to talk about that. I know the audience is probably like, when are they going to talk?
00:07:09
Speaker
What is her grief story? They've just been talking about her living in Australia. But you see, I didn't know you were from England originally. So is that fact of you being so willing to really live life and knowing that, well, if we don't like it, we just go. If that part of you, I wonder
00:07:33
Speaker
I mean, no, you know, your mom died when you were 15. Right. Do you know, I mean, hard to know because your character is just developing of whether you would have had this type of adventurous type of personality. I definitely wouldn't have.
00:07:49
Speaker
I was very, very shy growing up, extremely shy and reserved in comparison to my brother and sister. So I've got an older brother and sister and both of them are very outgoing that, you know, they had lots of friends at school. Everybody knew who they were just because they were just that type of personality. And I was the complete opposite, very shy, very reserved, had a handful of friends. And
00:08:16
Speaker
I don't think that I would have had the courage to do what I have done. I mean, I may have, you never know, but I do think that a lot of what I've done over the last few years is a result of losing my mom and the growth from that.
00:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, it's true. We wouldn't know what our life would be otherwise, right? But you don't know what other things could have come in your life to make you turn into the person you are now. But these were the cards you were dealt, and this was your journey. So you were 15. Your mom, do you prefer passed away, died? What words would you write? I'm happy for you either. I'm happy for you either. Okay.
00:09:00
Speaker
Okay. So when your mom died, what were the circumstances around her death? So she had been ill for quite a few years, actually, and she had cancer, but it had gone undiagnosed. So when I was very young, she had cancer, and she got the all clear. And yeah,
00:09:23
Speaker
she um it turned out she had a tumor on her spine so it was very very awkward there wasn't very much they could do actually in terms of um treatment and yeah unfortunately after quite I think from diagnosis until the day it was I think only nine months but I still think of it as years because it felt so long for me you know um so it was you know it was
00:09:53
Speaker
expected, we didn't know it was going to happen. I think that I myself, the age that I was, I was very naive and I actually didn't really think that it would and I think I was actually shielded from quite a lot of the realities too.
00:10:12
Speaker
So, you know, it was, it was kind of expected, but also a shock. It was a very, very weird mixture. Um, because they didn't tell you because of your age, they might've just not told you very clearly everything that was going to happen. Now, do you, do you now as an adult think that was, I mean, of course you can, that's just what your, your parents thought was the best thing to do right at that time too. So it's, it is what it is. But what do you think about that perspective being on the age that you were?
00:10:42
Speaker
Do you think that that helped you to not necessarily know that much of what was happening?
00:10:51
Speaker
I think I knew, so I did get told when they weren't sure that she would, you know, make it for a night or a week, for example, on my prom night, we were told she probably wouldn't make it through the night. And, you know, I had this in a battle of, do I go, don't I go? And I nearly didn't go. And my dad and my best friend's mom, you know, they said to me, go, and if anything happens, we can get you. And that even though I was being told that,
00:11:21
Speaker
I don't think it really registered in my head properly and nobody, so it wasn't that they didn't necessarily tell me, it was more the lead up I wasn't aware, so it was very sudden for me and therefore
00:11:37
Speaker
It kind of didn't register in my brain. It was very weird. I think, you know, as a parent, it's making those decisions. I can't say really, to be honest, whether it was the right thing or the wrong thing.
00:11:55
Speaker
Yeah, it is what it is. Yeah, exactly. No, it is what it is. That's the thing. I was just wondering if by chance you thought it would, because I don't know. Sometimes we overanalyze. Sometimes maybe we don't. Maybe I'm the only one that overanalyzes. I wonder if it would have been, sometimes you go into that rabbit hole that really takes you nowhere, because again, it is what it is.
00:12:20
Speaker
So then when were then, so she didn't pass away, then went to prom night. So then what were the circumstances on the day that she passed? What do you remember of that day?
Processing mother's death
00:12:32
Speaker
So at the time, my friend, my best friend was actually visiting from New Zealand. She had been living in New Zealand for a few years and she was at my house. My mom's dad, so my mom was German. So my grandpa was visiting as well. He was in the house. And I remember
00:12:51
Speaker
Waking up because I heard the beeping we had like an alarm system so whenever the front door opened it beeped and I remember I'm just waking up because I heard this beep and I just had to I ran downstairs it was like 5 a.m and my dad was there and he just looked at me and I just Knew and You know my dad was your mom at the hospital. My mom was at the hospital. Yeah
00:13:15
Speaker
And he came home to tell us and to get my grandpa. And I gave him a hug. He was crying. He asked if I wanted to go to the hospital, but I said, no. I just went straight upstairs. I got into bed with my best friend and I told her and I fell back to sleep.
00:13:44
Speaker
about an hour later I think I woke up and that day we were meant to be going shopping but it was her prom coming up in New Zealand and we were meant to be going shopping for a dress and I actually went with them, her and her mum, to the shopping centre and it was a very surreal time and
00:14:06
Speaker
A lot of people might think that's weird, but it hadn't registered in my brain, I don't think. It hadn't really hit me and I was in shock and I didn't want to sit with it because if I sat with it, it became real. And I was receiving all of these texts, you know, people find out somehow and I was receiving all of these texts and I just remember ignoring my phone completely. And I fell asleep in a changing room.
00:14:30
Speaker
And my best friend's mum pretty much had to carry me back to the car and went home. And I just stayed at her house until I felt able to go home and see my granddad and see my dad. And I actually didn't cry until after the funeral, until way after the funeral actually.
00:14:54
Speaker
I almost put a wall up against it. Didn't really want to acknowledge that it had happened. She had been in the hospital for quite a few months, so she hadn't been at home. So the fact that she wasn't at home and she wasn't there, that wasn't unusual. The fact that I was walking around the house in the living room, she wasn't sat there. It didn't feel empty in that way. So it only really hit a couple of weeks later when actually I hadn't been able to see her in the hospital and I hadn't been able to visit her. I wasn't receiving texts from her.
00:15:26
Speaker
So yeah, that's kind of like what happened in probably like the week, the day and then the week after. What you're sharing is so valuable because it's,
00:15:38
Speaker
It's those things that we do have to be very empathetic about how people handle their grief because it is just so different because like how you said like in that moment like you wanted to kind of maybe stay in that little bubble of
00:15:58
Speaker
the reality not really being there yet. Let me just do the things that teenagers do. Let's go shopping. But the fact that you fell asleep and that somehow that image of a 15-year-old falling asleep in the dressing room showed that emotionally
00:16:17
Speaker
you were drained. And who knows also how long, you know, for nine months of honestly also holding your breath for nine months of her journey. It was maybe even the body's like release and the fact that you even took a nap afterwards with your friend too, right after listening to the news, it was maybe there was like all this
00:16:41
Speaker
built up, I don't know, do you think like built up kind of, you know, feelings of all this year or eternity as you felt it right of those nine months of your mom having been ill too? Yeah, definitely. It definitely was a physical emotional response that I was kind of not aware of, I guess, and my body was just doing what it needed to do. You know, I hadn't spoken to people about it really because, you know,
00:17:13
Speaker
You don't really, as a 15 year old, you don't talk with your friends about the fact that you were at home caring for your mom. And you just don't. And people knew that she wasn't well, but they didn't really know the extent. And they also didn't know the things that I had seen and the things that I had to be there for. So yeah, it took a really big emotional toll. And I was at that age, my sister and my brother, they were going out with their friends, they were drinking, being teenagers and doing what they do.
00:17:42
Speaker
Whereas I was still very much, because I was quite shy and reserved, I just wanted to stay at home with mum. So I was at home a lot more. I would wake up early to have breakfast with her and come home from school and we'd sit together. So I saw a lot in that time that I just never expressed. And I think even still, it's actually, I don't really ever talk about those moments and the things that I thought.
00:18:13
Speaker
because you know it's not it's it's it's traumatic stuff really yeah so my body just needed to I think that nap in a changing room is probably one of the best naps I've ever had yeah that yeah I would have never thought that sounds like one of like
00:18:30
Speaker
You're not you don't have children you have you are a mom because you have a dog But I'm saying you don't have children the ones that kind of like fall asleep as you're feeding lana stuff kind of those videos that you see I do that that's what I like for you falling asleep in them in the dressing room, you know the changing room Sounds like something a toddler, you know would do so it just shows that your body was just like drain
00:18:54
Speaker
In those nine months when you would have that one-on-one time with your mom and sitting over breakfast, do you remember any of the conversations and things like that that you had? Is there any particular moment or any little thing that she said that you hold on to as either advice that she shared with you?
00:19:18
Speaker
she was aware of her mortality, right? And so I wonder her as a mom, what kind of little treasures she would kind of just pass on in those nine months to you. You know, this is one thing I find really hard because I don't remember
00:19:36
Speaker
And I think it's partly because I didn't realize. So she was telling me things, and you know, you're just like, oh yeah, whatever, mom. You're 15. Exactly. So yeah, so you weren't really taking it as that, even though she might've been giving you as that. Okay, so sorry. So do you regret not remembering? Oh, so much. I really wish that I had,
00:20:02
Speaker
written things down and you know I see a lot of people who have letters that have been left for them by their parents and these are things that you know I know that if I was ever in that situation now when I eventually hopefully become a mom that I would do for my child and it does make me sad that that you know that I don't have anything like that but also I do get depending on the day and the time sometimes I do get things that I just remember you know just
00:20:31
Speaker
I'll be talking about her and something will come up and I'm like, oh yeah, she did say that. And I maybe can't put a timeframe on it, but I know that she said it at some point. And I actually moving out here, I found a diary entry or a piece of paper that I'd written on. And it was something that my mom had said to me and it was, I've got it written actually, but it was be patient and be. Go ahead. You can get it. You can get it.
00:21:00
Speaker
Oh, I don't know where I put it. This is not live, so it's like a... I don't know where it's gone. You see, it says be patient, so... It said be patient and persistent. Something like be patient and persistent, don't give up.
00:21:20
Speaker
I actually found that piece of paper in a moment where I was really overwhelmed. I was missing home. Things weren't going as I had hoped. And I found this piece of paper and I was like, oh my God, this is the thing that she said to me that I've been trying to remember for so long. I know that there was a moment where she said something significant to me and I could not for the life of me remember what it was. And it was just such an amazing thing to be able to find that.
00:21:49
Speaker
And and the timing that it's not a coincidence that the timing of when you found it was exactly when you needed it. Exactly. Yeah. Did you feel do you feel like those little moments like that are like a little tap on the shoulder? What do you feel? And I see I'm projecting. What do you feel? Let me just say, what do you feel in those moments of those things happening?
00:22:19
Speaker
I never used to pay much attention to them. And I would have moments where I felt like it wasn't a coincidence and it was something bigger, but I would very quickly shut them off. And I would think, no, you weirdo, why are you thinking that? And then in the last maybe year and a half, especially as a lot of my friends here are quite spiritual,
00:22:45
Speaker
I started to actually lean into it a lot more and I'm starting to notice a lot more since I'm leaning into it and accepting it as well. So I find a lot of comfort in it now, whereas I used to kind of just freak me out to be honest. So yeah, it's only a recent thing really that I've been able to feel comforted by those things.
00:23:12
Speaker
Now let's talk about that then. Let's talk a little bit about then the things that brought you comfort in your grief process when you were 15, what you did then and what your dad and your siblings did to help you or each of you kind of did on your own. I'm not sure. So let's talk about that. And then because now we're seeing kind of the little bit of the development of who you are now. So what was Katrina's process at 15 to cope with her grief?
00:23:41
Speaker
And I'm talking about her because that's another... It's part of you, but it seems that it's a very different person. It is very different. I would say, what did I do? Unhealthy stuff. I did not process it at all in a very good way. I pretty much just shut off. I was mentally unwell.
00:24:11
Speaker
You know, I was diagnosed with anxiety and depression. I turned to a lot of high risk behaviours. I was drinking too much.
00:24:23
Speaker
being just very reckless. And I felt very, very lost and alone. You know, none of my friends had experienced the death of a, even a significant loss. None of them really had even grandparents. Most of them hadn't at this point. And it was very, very lonely. And there was a point I remember when I was at school. So my mum died in the July.
00:24:50
Speaker
So I had the summer holidays and then I went back to school in September and I remember I was going, I went over to a group of friends and they, I could hear them talking about what they did at the weekend and the things they did with their mom. And the moment they noticed that I was there, they stopped the conversation. And I just remember feeling like,
00:25:11
Speaker
I am no longer Katrina who you know is sporty and makes people laugh and is quite shy but you know friendly. I am now Katrina whose mum died and that's all I am and it was very very isolating for me and at the time I had a lot of resentment towards quite a few friends but now I can see that actually it's just that you know they're 15 year old as well like if the role was reversed I probably wouldn't have known what to do.
00:25:39
Speaker
Because it's not something we talk about. Death is just not now. I mean, now you and I know because we talk about death in all our grief Instagram posts and all our podcasts or events, but in general, people don't talk about that in society. So therefore, it's like if adults are even uncomfortable talking about it, imagine a 15-year-old not knowing how to support their friend
00:26:07
Speaker
in that process if they've never even heard their grownups talk about that. Yeah, exactly. And at that age, all you want is to have fun. You don't want your friends to be upset, but also you don't want to be around people that are always upset and down. And there's just completely different focuses. And I think at that age as well, you're quite selfish. And rightly so at that age, I think as well.
00:26:31
Speaker
And it was, it was a very, very hard thing to navigate. And I found that I was moving from this girl who was extremely shy to somebody who was actually, I was getting the urge to be more outspoken. And I think that was actually more just because I had a lot of anger inside me. So, you know, there were occasions where in class I would just like,
00:26:57
Speaker
let loose and everybody like what is going on like where where has this come from and i actually had one kid say to me one guy in my class say um i didn't know he had a voice and you know i think in some ways that's it's good that i was able to find my voice but it wasn't because i was i was not finding it in the right way and i was letting it out in not a positive i wasn't using my voice in a positive way um
00:27:25
Speaker
So it was very, very, very, very difficult. And I would say, you know, for the next six years, really, it was extremely difficult navigating things and, you know, there were moments I didn't want to be here. And I found it very hard to
00:27:48
Speaker
have conversations with my family, and I think it does change your relationships with your family. In many, many ways, I almost became the mother in the sense of I would do the food shopping, the cooking, the cleaning,
00:28:07
Speaker
the ironing, like all of those things I was doing. And at this point I was 16. My mum died the week before my 16th birthday. So at this point I was 16 and I was doing all of these things. And it's not that anybody said I had to, but I just kind of took it on myself. And I kind of felt like I missed out on a lot, you know, and I tried to make up for that a few years later down the line.
00:28:37
Speaker
And as a result, you know, did silly things, did silly things. So it was... As you're saying all this, I want to sit down with the 16... I want to hug the 16-year-old Katrina so badly right now. As I'm feeling all of that weight on your shoulders as you're sharing that, I'm like just thinking of that, the responsibility that you went through.
00:29:01
Speaker
At that time, of course, it's not like an aspect of pity. It's more that aspect of, wow, you did go through a lot. And then the fact that she died near your birthday, was her funeral near your birthday then if she died a week before your birthday? Yeah, her funeral was two days before my birthday. So she died 7th of July. Her funeral was the 14th and my birthday is the 16th.
00:29:29
Speaker
Do you remember anything about your 16th birthday at all? Yeah, so I actually, one of my closest friends and her mom was a really good friend of mine as well. They actually planned a really big party, a fancy dress party for me and they hired a hall and everybody came and it was really lovely.
00:29:50
Speaker
It was a fancy dress party and my dad blessed and thought the adults were dressing up too and he was the only one that turned up in fancy dress. So it was just, that was really, really lovely. But at the end of the night, I actually ended up losing my phone that night with all of my texts, all of my photos and videos.
00:30:14
Speaker
And I bowled my eyes. I sobbed for hours and my friend's mom just hugged me. But I wasn't asking. We just sat there. So the trigger was losing the phone for you to let out the emotion of losing your mom. Yeah.
00:30:35
Speaker
Because I lost everything. Yes, but it was, yeah, in that and the memories and everything in that moment. But I want to say that that was really wonderful that they still planned something special for you because so often my dad, my dad, my sister was buried on my dad's birthday.
00:30:55
Speaker
For many years, he would always hold on to the fact that, well, no, it's not because my sister died three days before his birthday. And so he would hold on to that aspect of, no, well, you know what today is? And I'm like, dad, it's your birthday. And dad, I know you're hearing this and I know I'm telling your story in your personal life. My dad's my number one fan. He listens for every single episode. So he'll be listening to this.
00:31:20
Speaker
But that idea, you know, it's easy for somehow that we can hold on to sometimes those harder memories, which is probably also what you might have done on those nine months too. A lot of the trauma is what stayed with you in those nine months of you caring for your mom too.
00:31:39
Speaker
that then you like forget sometimes and all these other things that are special too. So that's beautiful that they honored your birthday because it was also honoring your mom by doing that. She's the person that brought you to this.
00:31:53
Speaker
world. So that is wonderful that they did that. And, and also good that you lost your phone because you were able to at least have that release at least then, even though I'm sorry you lost your memories, but it was like, you're able at least to have some form of release for everything you were going through, which is so much. Okay. So that is 15 year old.
00:32:17
Speaker
15 to 22. Okay. Going through this kind of, you know, navigate. So when did you start? So did you go to college? Yeah, I went to college. So I studied animal management at college and then I went to, cause it's a bit different in England to how it was in America, I think, but I was in sixth form. So, um,
00:32:44
Speaker
I did sixth form. So you do your five years at secondary school, and then you have two years where you can either go to college or sixth form. And I did sixth form, but dropped out. Moved away to college. So I moved about an hour away from home. And I was there for two years studying. And then I moved back home and I went to university for three years and studied zoology. So my main interest at the time was marine conservation.
00:33:14
Speaker
And I really wanted to get involved more in marine conservation. Hence why I really wanted to come to Australia. Perfectly. Yeah, yeah. But I've actually over the years, you know, since then I've just I've ended up working with young people and I started working with disadvantaged youths who, you know, I was doing one on one work and raising aspirations, empowerment, things like that.
00:33:39
Speaker
And I realised that that's what I'm really passionate about is just working with people. I love animal stuff, but working with people is what I'm passionate about. And that's kind of how I've got to where I am now. But I think
00:33:58
Speaker
Yeah, that's kind of where I'm at now. Yeah, but then my question now too is then in that journey then, you studied, that's what I asked you, what did you study? But I also wanted to know, when did you start picking up some other tools of navigating your
Therapy and societal pressures
00:34:13
Speaker
grief? And when did you realize that how you were coping with your grief was really not
00:34:19
Speaker
the healthiest way to deal with it for yourself and for those around you. Like when did you start picking other tools and what tools did you start picking up around as you started going to college and so forth? So I did engage when I
00:34:41
Speaker
There was a moment, as I said, where I didn't want to be here anymore. And at that point, I engaged with several different counsellors. So this was just before I started university, engaged with several different counsellors. You know, I couldn't really find one that I felt comfortable with for a long time, but I was willing to keep trying, which I think is really important to mention that you're not always going to find the right person straight away.
00:35:05
Speaker
looking like can sometimes put people off. But I'm so grateful I continued. I found a really good counsellor and found that I was, you know, just acknowledging my grief, I think, was a really, really big thing for me at the start was acknowledging that the fact that I was still grieving six years on wasn't
00:35:27
Speaker
a bad thing and it's not an unusual thing because I had for so long you know you hear all these things that people say it gets easier after year it gets better with time you want to be sad and that put so much guilt on the way I was feeling and I thought that I was weird I thought that I was like unusual there's something wrong with me that I still was grieving and so just acknowledging that
00:35:48
Speaker
that was okay. And that is normal. And that's what grief is. It's not what everybody says it usually is. It's actually, you know, individual to you. And that was a really big, big step for me. But whilst I was at university, I almost felt like I created this new persona. And everybody
00:36:13
Speaker
always said to me, you're so positive. And people that knew my mum said, you're just like your mum. And I almost ended up putting so much pressure on myself to be that person that I was struggling.
00:36:31
Speaker
I was still- Like a mask. It was a mask. Were you wearing a mask? Yeah. And whilst, you know, a lot of those elements about me are true, it's just not true 24 seven. So I- It's a protective mechanism. It's again, another protective mechanism, not much different than having used, you know, escapism of, I don't know, other stuff, how people use, you know, alcohol or drugs as escapism to not deal, right? The same thing sometimes happens when we wear masks
00:37:01
Speaker
all day long. Yeah, exactly. It's an escape. It's a way of not really showing what truly is going on inside. Yeah. And I was still taking on that motherly role at home. At this point, my brother and sister had moved out of the family home, but my dad, you know, he had met somebody new and that was a big adjustment as well. But at this point, you know, I kind of not really spoken about that. But at this point, you know, I had a really good relationship with my new stepmom.
00:37:31
Speaker
and but I was still you know taking on that motherly role. I was working three jobs and I was also in an abusive relationship so I had this pressure of keeping this persona because I didn't want to feel like I was taking a step backwards.
00:37:53
Speaker
And that again, you know, spiralled because I just couldn't keep it up anymore. And I started, you know, drinking too much again, engaging in risky behaviours. Very, very depressed.
00:38:10
Speaker
yeah it was it was it was hard so i don't want it to sound like you know i did all of these things i got better and that was it because it very much wasn't like that and i don't think it ever will be like those always up and down and moving um but the moment that changed things for me was actually um four years ago my sister she was pregnant with twins
00:38:33
Speaker
and she went into labour 15 and a half weeks early so my niece and nephew were three and a half months premature and my nephew passed away and
00:38:51
Speaker
At that same time, my granddad was diagnosed with cancer and my mum's dad had a stroke. So my dad's dad was diagnosed with cancer and my mum's dad, who at the time is living alone in Germany, had a stroke and he's lost his ability to speak.
00:39:10
Speaker
So all of these things happened within, you know, one, two weeks of each other. And this is how this is four years ago, you said, but this is how many years because I'm not actually I don't even know your age. So I don't even know the timeline that we're talking about from 15 to now. How old are you now? Just for timeline purposes. Twenty six. OK, so it's been 11 years. So then so then 10 years into my saying calculating. No, it's been 11 years old. So six years after your mom's.
00:39:40
Speaker
passing. It's when your sister had the twins and then your nephew did not die then when he was born. And then that's when your grandfather died and your oppa had a stroke. Yeah. So it was very
00:40:03
Speaker
Yeah, just a lot of things happen in, you know, a lot of people might think, well, that would surely tip you over the edge. But at that same point, I also left the abusive relationship, which was very, I think it was a big release for me.
00:40:19
Speaker
And I saw my sister and how my sister was coping. She'd just lost a child, but she also had another child to care for. And I saw the way that my upper in Germany had, you know, continued even after what had happened. And I realized that it was my choice how I let
00:40:48
Speaker
what happens to me it like dictate my life because for so long I thought that you know that I thought that the only thing about me was the fact that my mum died and they thought that's all that there was and all that there is and that's all that defined me and therefore I had to be a certain way almost and I didn't get a choice
00:41:17
Speaker
because I felt like I'd lost control of everything. But then I realized, looking at everybody around me, I did have a choice. I actually had more control than I realized.
00:41:26
Speaker
And things will happen in my life that are out of my control, but there's other things in my life that I can control. And things like my happiness. I can choose whether I want to be happy or not. I can choose whether I make an effort to be happy. I wasn't making an effort at this point. I had just given up. And that for me was the turning point. And seeing the strength in my sister,
00:41:52
Speaker
I won't touch on it too much because that's her story, but the strength in her really inspired me. And it was just like, there aren't any words to put in, to explain like her strength and what she went through and how she coped with that. And it just kind of, it just gave me that, a bit of a knock on the head, you know, a bit of a, I hate to say it, but a bit of a reality check, like the, it,
00:42:24
Speaker
things happen in our life that we can't control and shit. Shit? Am I allowed to swear? You can say whatever. I don't know how to put it. I don't know. And in the way I upload these things, I can't really like put, I don't know how to put the thing of explicit, but I don't know. People can just choose to whatever. If they want to ban my episode because somebody said a bad word, that's true.
00:42:47
Speaker
Up to the platforms. So yeah, because things can just be that hard, but we have a choice as to how it is we react to the certain situations we're given. So I was seeing these other people, how they were coping in their reality, your sister and your oppa, that made you kind of
00:43:15
Speaker
think differently. Wow. Now tell us then that journey, the moment you had that realization, now everything that you're doing ever since and the growth that you have come to be. It was still going because you're still growing. The growth you've had up to now and what you're doing.
00:43:37
Speaker
So from that moment I re-engaged with a counsellor because I'd stopped seeing him. So re-engaged and it was very strange because I wouldn't say in that exact moment there was anything I particularly did. It was almost like a switch in my head and I just saw things differently.
00:44:03
Speaker
And over the last four years, I've done a lot of reading, I've done a lot of growth in me, exploring the way that I felt before and the things that I did before and why that might have been, and just giving myself compassion and realizing it was hard.
00:44:23
Speaker
not putting so much guilt on myself because I think I was so hard on myself for all of the decisions I made which actually only just resulted in me making more decisions that I wasn't happy with so I just gave myself that compassion and I realized you know
00:44:39
Speaker
just because I've done that, that is a part of me, but it doesn't define me. All of my actions are a part of me. All of my actions have led me to where I am today, but it doesn't have to define me. I get to choose what defines me. And that was through reading, through counseling, through just speaking with friends and being a lot more open to receiving things and hearing different perspectives that I have kind of come to this point.
Finding purpose through sharing
00:45:04
Speaker
It's been a hard,
00:45:07
Speaker
been hard. There's a lot of things that I've had to kind of unlearn about myself, especially after the relationship that I had been in, the abusive relationship, you know, there was a lot of things that stemmed from that. And it's been a really long thing for me. But what I started to realise is actually the more I started speaking and sharing my own experiences, the empowerment that that gave to others to then share theirs. And
00:45:37
Speaker
I found so much joy in that, in knowing that me sharing my pain, my struggles, the things that I've been through could possibly help somebody else. Nothing can take that away. Nothing can kind of beat that, I don't think. If you know that you're helping somebody,
00:46:00
Speaker
So I just started sharing more, really. I just started becoming more comfortable with sharing my story and I realised that one big thing for me was that I missed talking about my mum. I missed talking about it and I wanted to talk about it and not feel bad for talking about it.
00:46:15
Speaker
So I just started doing it when I realized that in doing it, I wasn't causing people pain. That they weren't stopping the conversation. Like you were feeling when you were in high school, in high school, I don't know, high school. I don't know. What grade were you in ninth grade? It was year 11. So like final year of school. Oh, you guys. Oh yeah. Cause you were almost 16. Yeah, but that's still a young, you guys graduate young.
00:46:41
Speaker
Yeah. Do you? Yeah. I think it's the layouts differently in America to England. Yeah. Yeah. So therefore, because that's kind of what you knew, you're like, oh, you don't talk about it. Because if you talk about it, then people don't want to be around you, so then you don't talk about it. So therefore, you had for so long not talked about it that then when you realized, wait, I can actually talk about her,
00:47:08
Speaker
talk about my process and in the process I'm helping others, like how amazing is that? And it's like to discover that you can do that. It's kind of like a superpower that you get for having gone through something so hard that at least it's like, okay, now at least let me give you this little token that for having gone through something hard, you at least get the bounty of helping somebody else that's going through something hard too. Exactly.
00:47:35
Speaker
And that made me feel so close to my mum. My mum was a very giving person, you know. A lot of people know her for the fact that she just loved everybody, you know.
00:47:48
Speaker
Like, for example, the naughtiest kid at school, no parent wanted their child to be friends with this kid. And my mom used to invite them over all the time. And he's one of my best friends now. One of my best friends. Because she, and she was like that with, you know, all ages, all backgrounds, whatever it was, she never judged.
00:48:12
Speaker
And she just gave people show people that compassion. And in me sharing my story and in my experiences and being there for other people, I felt I feel closer to her because that's very much the person that she was. So it's almost like I'm allowing her to live through through me and, you know,
00:48:34
Speaker
And maybe, you know, I wish that I'd started doing it sooner because maybe then, you know, I wouldn't have had to go through all of these things because all I really wanted was to feel close to her ultimately. And I didn't know how to do that. And again, we can't turn back time. If I could turn back time. You're too young to know what reference that's on you. I know that song. I know that song. You do? Oh, OK, OK, OK.
00:48:58
Speaker
But we can't really, right? And therefore, too, you wouldn't have probably come to the realization of had you not gone through hell and back, as they say. So you already have done the hard part. That was just part of the journey, too, because now you appreciate all these moments and times in which you are helping others even more. Yeah.
00:49:21
Speaker
So, yeah, we always think of the could of, should of, you know, we live in these, the type of, you know, we are human. That's where we are. We always kind of think these things back, oh, I should have gone this way. But that's not how it was, right?
00:49:40
Speaker
Now, in this journey then of now helping others, tell us then all the different platforms and ways in which you help. You have your Instagram account. When did you open that account? And did you open that first and then you started serving in the other platforms or what started first? So share a little bit about these different ways.
00:49:59
Speaker
So, I mean, I was sharing it in my own network anyway. A lot more of my friends and people that I knew started to experience grief and the death of a loved one, and they would come to me to speak to me about it.
00:50:13
Speaker
And from there, you know, my friends kept saying to me like, you should start, you should start showing what you're doing. Like you should start sharing more and just being more open about it on more of an open platform. So I actually decided to start a podcast. So, um, last year, this time last year, actually, I started a podcast. Um, and with that, I started an Instagram account. Now I,
00:50:38
Speaker
actually ended up deleting that separate Instagram account. And I now just share everything on my own personal one. And the reason I decided to do that was because I didn't want to just keep it. I think it's really important that we have these conversations with people who haven't experienced grief as well. And what I started to realize is that the people that were, the community I was building on that account was people who had experienced grief.
00:51:09
Speaker
And, but I didn't want it to just be restricted to that. So I made the decision four months ago to remove that old account and just start doing, sharing everything on my personal one. And you know, it's been amazing because the conversations I've had with people that I know, people that I've grown up with, I had no idea that they actually lost a parent the same age that I did, or that they, you know, they've,
00:51:37
Speaker
that their sister or sibling have lost a child or whatever it is. I never knew that about them, but through me sharing just on my personal account and being more open about it, it started those conversations. I've even had friends who haven't experienced a significant loss say to me, oh, I actually have been talking to my parents about what they might like once they die or how they might like me to handle these situations. And it's opened up these conversations even further. And I think that's really, really important.
00:52:06
Speaker
So I'm really glad that I made that transition. And now I pretty much just share on my stories, I share like just everyday stuff, a lot about my dog, that all my posts are revolved around grief and loss and mental health and predominantly. And I think that it's been it's been a great way to open up that community even more. Because, yeah, because it's not just that it's not a club that's just going to happen to a couple of people. No, no, no, no, no.
00:52:34
Speaker
Grief happens to absolutely every single living being. Whether they go through grief because they've lost a loved one or they go through grief because they lost a job or they go through grief because they just broke up a long-term relationship or they go through grief because
00:52:58
Speaker
the child that they thought was going to get married and have children decided they're not going to get married and have children. So your idea as a parent now, all of a sudden thinking, I'm not going to have grandkids. That idea is gone because, you know, so grief is experienced by everybody. So yes, you sharing it openly with everybody. It's like in, even if in that moment they might think, Oh, I get like, because they may not think in that moment that they can relate to that.
00:53:25
Speaker
They will at some point, like you said, the fact that your friends are even talking to the parents more openly about what it is they want to do for their own life and how they want to be celebrated when they pass away or things like that. That's just so beautiful. So beautiful because it's, again, having these conversations that's going to make it be that there's no longer in the future kids whispering like, oh, wait, wait, we can't talk about it. She's here.
00:53:56
Speaker
yeah and it's giving people that like empowering people to know that they they can talk about it and to not be fearful of saying the wrong thing because I think another thing another big thing that we talk about in the group community is what to say what not to say right but I
00:54:12
Speaker
Ultimately, I believe it's better to say something or just acknowledge it than say nothing at all. And, you know, as people who have experienced things being said to them that maybe could cause harm, like I think, you know, it's important that I share with people what they could say and just give them the confidence to feel more comfortable having that conversation. It's not about saying the right or the wrong thing. It's just being comfortable to know that, you know,
00:54:41
Speaker
to have that conversation or to try and have that conversation rather than shy away from it. And for so long, I resented a lot of the things that people said to me and I was so angry about it, but now I just realized, I didn't know at the time what to say.
00:54:57
Speaker
And how are you going to know if nobody has those conversations? How are you going to know if you've not experienced it yourself? So we can't be so angry at the people that maybe do say the wrong thing. You know, if it's said with good intention, I mean, I do agree that there's some people out there that just say things with bad intentions, and that's not okay. But if it's said with good intentions, to just have those conversations and educate people, and how are we going to do that if we just kind of restrict a community to those who only have experienced grief? Because ultimately,
00:55:26
Speaker
we need everybody to know. We need everyone to know and it's as you say you know grief impacts us all and I had a friend on my podcast who she was talking about the breakdown of a marriage and she was very young and
00:55:44
Speaker
She, before we came on the podcast, she was like, why do you want me on Katrina? Cause it's not grief. And I said, it is. So I watched you go through that and you were grieving a marriage and a life you thought you were going to have. And she realized in that moment, and she gave herself so much more compassion for the way that she processed everything.
00:56:01
Speaker
When she realized that she was grieving. She was grieving, yeah. She was grieving, yeah. So once you gave her the acknowledgement that what she was going through was grief, then it's like, oh, I didn't even...
00:56:19
Speaker
Realize that I was so your podcast is called grow with
Creating grief-inclusive spaces
00:56:23
Speaker
grief. Is that correct? Grow with grief. And so you can make we'll put the we'll put your website and everything's on your website. We'll put it on the show notes so people can listen to the interviews you have. But so you interview then people with different grief stories tell us then that journey and how long has it been that you've had them the platform, the podcast.
00:56:42
Speaker
So I've had that for about a year now, but I took a short break. Oh, same. Yeah, yeah. So we've been the same. Might have been a year. But if I did take a short break, my laptop broke and I had nothing to record about. So I took a break and we're just having a break at the moment before season two comes out. So that's really exciting. And then from that, I've actually recently gotten self-employed because I
00:57:11
Speaker
want to provide workshops for businesses and corporate. So a big thing for me is creating a grief inclusive environment, you know, for so many of us work is probably the first thing that we go back to after somebody has died and
00:57:28
Speaker
there's not always the right support there. And I've heard so many stories of so many horrendous things that have happened. And I think it's really important that if we're in a, ultimately most people, they are in a workplace and you spend a lot of your life there, a lot of your life and a lot of your time and we need to ensure that that space is supportive and knows the tools and has the tools there to be able to
00:57:57
Speaker
to support their employees and to support individuals as well. So that's a big thing of something that I'm working on at the moment. I also speak with youth groups and speak with young people and just share my story and that allows them to share theirs. So there's a lot of things that I'm kind of doing here and there, but ultimately the biggest thing is to just start that conversation.
00:58:23
Speaker
you know, start it for people who are grieving or people who are going to grieve. Yeah. Thank you so much. Is this so beautiful? And ways in which I just, I was, we were talking about this before we started recording, ways in which you hold your mom close, you close and the clothes, you have some clothes of her. What other things do you have than you, you did this little cute video of you wearing some of her clothes.
00:58:52
Speaker
So, tell us what are some of the things that you either do or where to honor your mom. And what was your mom's name, by the way? So, my mom was called Greta. Greta Prizeweller. Greta. So, what was her name? Prizeweller. Prizeweller. So, with Greta, how do you remember Greta in your life? How do you remember your mom in your life?
00:59:22
Speaker
lot of baking and she was the best baker and so whenever I'm feeling particularly griefy I just say I love that word I love that word griefy I think I think it's you know
00:59:47
Speaker
something that we can you know I think we all get those waves you know 10 years nearly 11 years down the line you know it's not as I wouldn't say it's as kind of stark in my everyday life as it used to be but it comes and it goes and I have days or even consecutive days or weeks where I feel particularly griefy and I just let them be now I feel into it
01:00:13
Speaker
let myself cry if I need to cry, but then I do these things. So I bake a lot. I put her favorite music on, have a bit of a dance that always helps lift my mood. What are some of her favorite bands? So when she was in the house- That's why you know Cher? Is that why you know if I could-
01:00:33
Speaker
She was very much like an old school queen. There was actually one song that I play all the time and the reason I played this song is because when she was in the hospital, the nurses
01:00:49
Speaker
became very good friends with my mum and they let me sneak in one night to her room. She had a private room, let me sneak in and with my guitar and play. Oh, you play. I see it. I see it. I see it. Oh, maybe we should play it. Well, no. Well, this is the thing. This is the thing I said to her. What is your favourite song? And I'm going to learn it.
01:01:15
Speaker
and she comes out with Steely Dan, Reeling in the Ears, which is like this full-on, you have to listen to it because there is no way in hell that I could play that song. Play that song. It is very rock, very like, there was just no way but it is such a good song and now whenever I hear it, whenever I play it, it is the best
01:01:42
Speaker
It just makes me feel so close to her. So yeah, that's my go-to song. Maybe by the time you're in your 60s, you would have already mastered it on that guitar. Maybe. I've not even tried. You haven't even tried. Just think of it like baby steps. Just like, okay, how about we just find a very simple chord progression to the song that I could just like...
01:02:08
Speaker
play to sing. I don't have to like go rock it out necessarily, but you just start somewhere. Maybe that's one of those little things you pick up. That is so awesome. So baking, playing her favorite music, and then you were wearing then some of her clothes that you keep and jewelry.
01:02:28
Speaker
Yeah, just a couple of clothes, just a couple of clothes. We actually got rid of her clothes quite early on. So that for me was, that was for my dad, for my dad, something that he had to do.
01:02:41
Speaker
And so I have a couple of those things, and we're getting holes in there, which is really sad. And I don't want to get rid of them. So they're just going to be holy. I'm just going to have to wear them as pajamas, I think, soon. I'll give you a tip afterwards, because I interviewed somebody that did something with her brother's shirts. She lives in England, actually. And she said she had that they make teddy bears.
01:03:06
Speaker
with the shirts. Yeah, I've seen that. With all her brother's flannel shirts. Maybe that's an idea. Maybe something like that. When it's already falling apart. Or a little patch or something from there. If it's something that you... There's things in which we feel like that's still an attachment. But there's also moments in our life in which we
01:03:31
Speaker
start realizing that that's not what necessarily connects us to them. And then there's times in which we're okay to let go. So everything at its due time. It took me two years to delete my mom's phone number from my phone. So everybody has their own
01:03:49
Speaker
process right and how it is the things that they choose to release from and that they're okay with and other people hold on to other things longer and I'm sure you've noticed that difference between you and your siblings as well like you each have a different way in which you hold on to very much so very much so and you know the other thing is is like in terms of like a grave so her grave is in Germany so
01:04:12
Speaker
you know it's not something that we've ever really connected with that much so we found other ways. We have a memorial tree in England but again it was quite far away from home and we would only go on significant dates and so we've had to find other ways really and I actually think that's really nice because it means that we can remember and hold her close wherever we are. I don't have to be in a specific place to do that
01:04:38
Speaker
I can move to the other side of the world and still have these little things that allow me to remember. Yes. Now, I know you had touched a little bit on the, and let's go into this and then we'll close off, the aspect of some of the people you've been meeting now in your circle that are more spiritual and so forth and how that's kind of been something that's been incorporating into your journey. So can you touch on that as well, please? Because I'm just curious. Yeah, yeah.
01:05:09
Speaker
You know, I think there's a lot, I'd say 80% of it I agree with, 20% I maybe don't. And that might be just, I'm very aware at the moment of like the spiritual bypassing type behaviors. And I think that it's really important that when talking about spirituality and looking at it that we are aware that it's not a one size fits all.
01:05:40
Speaker
But the spiritual side for me was I actually visited a medium for the first time.
01:05:50
Speaker
ever, I had been very against them. Not long after my mum had passed away, my best friend went to one and she said to me, oh, they said that your mum came through and it just made me so angry. And I was like, no, and it just shut me off to them completely. But then, especially I think too, like the fact that your mum came through to your friend, like, yeah,
01:06:14
Speaker
I'd be mad. I was mad one time. My friend told me she had felt my sister sitting at her bed. I'm like, how come she came to you? She's never sat in my bed. She's been jealous. So you went to medium. And how was that experience? Were you skeptical when you went? You still went even with the skepticism. You're still not completely okay.
01:06:43
Speaker
I knew this girl through a friend. And I'd seen her other work that she does. So she's also a coach. And I really, really liked just her as a person. I just liked her energy. And you trusted that energy at least. I did her like I never thought that anything she would say to me would be a lie. So and I think that was really important. And I went to her and I said, look, I am really skeptical. And I'm probably going to come out of here not believing half the stuff you've said.
01:07:13
Speaker
But during the whole process, I just felt this whole sense of calm. And some of the things that she said to me are things that I have never said to anybody because they were in those moments where I was thinking like, oh, no, you're weird. Like, why are you thinking that? You know, those feelings that I was getting at the time, I never mentioned anybody because I thought it kind of freaked me out.
01:07:39
Speaker
She came out with things that just nobody could know. And you know, whether it's true or not, it brought me comfort. And I think that's the most important thing is if you can find something that brings you comfort, that is what's important, whether it's true or not.
01:07:54
Speaker
I agree completely. If it brings you comfort and it's true to you, even if it's true to your experience, then be it that. It doesn't matter really what others may think of that experience. Like you said, if it brings you comfort,
01:08:11
Speaker
If it's numbers, that makes sense. For me, it's like numbers are a message. I'm like, oh, okay. That's like a tap on the shoulder. Like I said before with that little piece of paper that you said with her, be patient, be persistent. When you find it, can you please text me when you find it? I want to see that. I don't know where it's gone because it's on my pinball normally.
01:08:33
Speaker
Yeah, so, well, you might find it then at the right time, another time when you need to be patient and persistent. So, yeah, like little things like that, like other people may not see meaning or something in nature, animals, a certain thing, then you're walking, seeing a bird or this or that, like for some person, you know, that might be a connection and others may like not necessarily see it as such.
01:08:59
Speaker
So that was one of those connections. What other things have you felt that you've kind of opened yourself up to maybe seeing differently in either your grief process or your spiritual connection with your mom? I think the biggest thing is that compassion and having the compassion for myself.
01:09:22
Speaker
for my family and my friends that were there throughout the time. And I just find joys in the little things now. You know, I'm not so bothered about the big fancy stuff. I just enjoy those small moments. And sometimes I would sit there and I would just think, how lucky am I to be here?
01:09:47
Speaker
like how lucky am I to be able to sit here and just watch you know there's some baby birds that are in our garden like how lucky am I to be able to do that when there's so many people who who can't do that anymore my mum can't do that anymore and it's something she would have loved to do you know and I can find joy in those smaller moments whereas before it was always clouded by anger or resentment or just unhappiness now I can find the joy in it instead
01:10:16
Speaker
And I think, you know, being able to connect with people and have those conversations with people and learn about other people's stories. Storytelling for me is one of the most powerful acts. And hence why I've got the podcast and hence why I like, you know, I'm on here right now is because I think it's so powerful that that vulnerability, it breeds connection and
01:10:41
Speaker
through learning about other people's stories it helps you to see a new perspective too it helps you to learn and grow so that connection with people and just hearing and asking them questions and not being afraid to ask questions has been so powerful in my own growth through it all um yeah definitely and the being and asking questions
01:11:03
Speaker
And then this goes to anything, not just with grief. This is just in life. Anything that is unknown, sometimes we just tend to not talk about. I was in a Zoom meeting once, and you put your name on the Zoom. And so this was like a group thing. And one of the participants had
01:11:27
Speaker
their name and then had they and them on the parenthesis. And I was like, oh, can I ask you can I because after I said, you know, I said something like, OK, so she just and I'm like, because first they didn't have that. Yeah. And first and there was no image either. There was just the name. So because of the name, I was just already assuming it was a sheep. But then when they they put the name there. And so then I said, would you mind sharing with
01:11:55
Speaker
So how do I refer? This is my first time actually talking to a they. Can you please tell me how it is the correct way? And I'm sorry if I'm asking this here on Zoom. No, thank you so much. That's actually wonderful that you do because that's how we learn. It's good to ask.
01:12:13
Speaker
And you know, because that's the thing. It's like we sometimes don't because we don't know. We're like, I don't want to say the wrong thing. Well, it's better for me to know and to ask somebody that is a they or them how it is I'm supposed to talk rather than assuming, you know. So so, yeah, that that that is a good tip for any situation. Just ask. If you don't know, just ask.
01:12:38
Speaker
And, you know, with grief, I think we can be so afraid of asking because people always say to me, oh, are you okay if I ask? I don't want to upset you. And I think actually so many of us who are grieving through death because of death, we want to talk about that person. We want to hear that people are remembering them. And, you know, if you ask us a question and we just don't feel it, we'll just say like, oh, I don't want to talk about it today.
01:13:01
Speaker
and that's all right as well but nine times out of ten we will probably be grateful that you asked even if we you know even if we don't talk about it we'll just be grateful that you asked so i think asking those questions not being afraid to to want to learn and to know and to find out
01:13:18
Speaker
is so much better than just not saying a thing at all because you're scared. You're never going to remind us that our person has gone because we know that every single second, every single day. You know, you can't remind us, we can't forget. So don't be afraid to ask, don't be afraid to mention their name. If we aren't in the place where we want to talk about it, we will say, but we will be grateful that you've acknowledged it. And I think that's the most important thing.
01:13:45
Speaker
Perfect. That's a perfect way to end the podcast. If that's okay, Katrina, unless you have something else you'd want to share that I haven't asked. Um, that's perfect. And for people to find you is Katrina, the same red, same last praise.
01:14:00
Speaker
And I'll put that.com and I will put that in the show notes as well for people to find you. And then in order to connect with you on Instagram would be the best place to get to know you and see your bubbly personality. I love talking as you can tell.
01:14:18
Speaker
Listen, we have a podcast for a reason, you and I, and that's exactly the reason. I tell people, I don't have a blog because I don't really... Writing is not my strong... Did you notice that even in my email and like...
01:14:36
Speaker
No. Yes. Here. Here's the link. I'm like very brief when writing, but not very brief when speaking. So I'm so grateful to have met you in this journey of our podcasts and Instagram and now being able to hear your story. So thank you so much, Katrina, for being here. Thank you for giving me the space to share. I really appreciate it.
01:15:06
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
01:15:34
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.