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128. Meditaion, Gratitude, Breathwork and HeartMath-with Susie Spell
84 Plays3 years ago
Susie Spell is a family nurse practitioner certified in lifestyle medicine as well as holistic health coaching. She helps empower women with (or at risk for) cardiovascular disease, uplevel their lifestyle through nutrition, movement, sleep, and stress management resulting in significant improvement in overall health and even reversing chronic diseases like high blood pressure. Susie has worked in the healthcare arena for 28 years, starting as a nurse aide and working up to where she is today. She's not only had personal experiences with grief, but has witnessed and shared sacred space with many in the grieving process over the years. She is a perpetual learner and has opened her heart to other powerful healing practices having learned about breathwork through the Heart Math Institute, healing through the wisdom of ancient Ayurvedic practices and meditation, the importance of connection with Nature, how gratitude contributes to overall well-being, and how spirituality is a powerful ally in health and healing. Her ultimate hope is to empower people and help them build the resilience needed to thrive in our modern society, no matter age, race, or economic status.
https://www.facebook.com/VitalTransformationsLLC
https://www.instagram.com/vital_transformations_llc
https://www.linkedin.com/in/susiespell
Website she mentioned about HeartMath
https://www.heartmath.com/experience/
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest or for coaching:
https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
Recommended
Transcript
Transformative Practices for Grief and Stress
00:00:01
Speaker
There were a couple of things that were transformative for me that I think are very important because we are all going to bump up against grief and stress and some level of trauma in our life. It's just how life is, right? And for me, I wish I would have known a lot of things beforehand.
00:00:22
Speaker
What was transformative for me was a meditation practice, which I never would have done before. A meditation practice, gratitude practice, and learning about heart math and breath work.
Introduction to Podcast and Theme
00:00:36
Speaker
Hello and welcome to Grief, Gratitude, and the Gray in Between podcast.
00:00:44
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:00
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys.
Introduction of Host and Guest
00:01:12
Speaker
I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
00:01:21
Speaker
And today we have Susie Spell on the podcast. She is a family nurse practitioner certified in lifestyle medicine, as well as holistic health coaching. And she helps empower women and is here today not only to share her own journey and her own
00:01:43
Speaker
life and her exposure to grief, but also how she has helped other people in the area of grief in her work and also just
Guest Connection to Podcast
00:01:56
Speaker
in lifestyle. So welcome, Susie. Thank you. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to talk to you.
00:02:02
Speaker
I am so happy you're here. And let's just give a shout out to my nephew, Sowastian Sebastian. Because this is the power of word of mouth referral or talking. So my nephew is friends with your son. And he happened to mention I had a podcast. Is it because you're wanting to start your own podcast? Is that why you brought it up?
00:02:26
Speaker
Right. We were driving in the car together, and I said something about starting a podcast, which I had just done, and I'm learning all the things. And he said, oh, my aunt has a podcast. And I was like, no way. So that's how that conversation started. That's awesome. And then when you heard the title, let's just tell whether you heard grief, gratitude, and the gray in between. And what was your reaction again? I went, oh my gosh, I love grief. And then I thought, wait, no, I don't love grief.
00:02:53
Speaker
But I think it's such an area of, you know, it's just a rich with opportunity, you know. And it's something that we all go through. So yes, opening that conversation about grief, and especially because you've lived it yourself, both your parents have passed away and you've dealt with grief in that level, as well as I'm sure in the hospital setting and other aspects of your life, grief in other ways.
Impact of ALS and Transition to Holistic Health
00:03:21
Speaker
In the little tidbit actually sent me you've experienced grief also in how we are even approaching health even nowadays And the aspect of that and the environment in life. So let's talk about you first. Let's see
00:03:37
Speaker
and get to know you a little more. Where do you live and where you grew up? OK. So I live currently in a spot between Jacksonville and St. Augustine, Florida, which is the northeastern part of Florida. And I've lived here about 10 years. I lived here in high school as well. Then I went to North Carolina, got, quote, stuck there, which I enjoyed my time there, for 20 plus years. And to be honest, that was a place where I lived the longest.
00:04:05
Speaker
So prior to that, as a child, I was born in Pennsylvania, in Amish country, and moved around quite a bit when I was young. Ended up living more in the Midwest, so Chicago area, Kansas City, and Michigan.
00:04:18
Speaker
and then moved to Florida when I was in high school, beginning high school, because my mom said, if I never see another snowflake, it'll be too soon. So we got to Florida. And then, like I said, I migrated to North Carolina and was there for 22, 23 years. So before coming back to Florida, I always had warm fuzzies for Florida. And so I'm back.
00:04:44
Speaker
Great now, what was it about the warmth? What brought up the warm fuzzies for Florida? You know, I'm not really sure maybe it was a life memories maybe memories carefree lifestyle Sun sand beach friends, you know the whole the whole thing and at that time I was my husband has started a long-distance MBA program to and from University of Florida So he already had a little connection here
00:05:13
Speaker
and the memories I had here. And I feel like I needed some buffer from the life I was living in North Carolina at the time. It was pretty traumatic with my mom as well here as we go along, right? But her journey and I just needed space from that and thought, well, Florida is not that far from North Carolina. We can still see our family. So my husband was willing and we did it. That's how you move now. So you guys were already
00:05:40
Speaker
married then when you moved to Florida. Tell us then about them. We know you have at least one of the kids, because that's the one that met my nephew. So tell us about your children, please. Okay. So I'm married to my husband, Brian, and we have two children. So Halle is my oldest, and she's 18. I just launched her to college. And then Justin is my second. He's in 10th grade. And he's the one who's friends with Sebastian.
00:06:06
Speaker
So we could do a whole other chapter about grieving, the part of grieving when a child goes into college too. That's a whole other aspect of grief. Yeah, another transition. Another huge transition, yeah. Lots of life transitions. Moving is a life transition, of course. Changing careers is a life transition. So you've had quite a bit of these transitions through your life. I want you to share with us
00:06:33
Speaker
what led you to want to be a nurse? Who was little Susie? And what led you to be a nurse and kind of choose that career? I told you I'd ask you things you would not think I would ask you. Yeah, I love that. I love that. So my mom in her younger life was a nurse and had always, always talked highly of being a nurse and wanted to, always wanted to be a nurse, even though life circumstances kind of pulled her away from that in her young twenties.
00:07:01
Speaker
And she did other things, but she always talked fondly of it. She was always a very caring and loving person, even to animals and plants and everything. So even when I was young, you know, I would want to catch fireflies and lizards and like I found a little nest of bunnies. And so like just having that caretaking for the things in my immediate world as a child.
00:07:25
Speaker
and led probably mostly by my mom who was very caring to everything in our world as well. So I think that's who I was and she always talked highly of nursing
00:07:40
Speaker
And I just had a passion for it. I had tried a couple other things. I got my degree first in biology, worked in a lab in a pediatrician's office. And although that was OK, that really wasn't where my heart was. So I thought, I want to go back to nursing school. So I just did what I had to do to arrange my life and go back to nursing school.
00:08:01
Speaker
And so that nursing school was in North Carolina? Yes. Yep. I went to UNC Chapel Hill, the Tar Heels. That was then your journey, kind of following your mom's footsteps into nursing, and that led you there. You mentioned in the little bit that you sent me about you
00:08:20
Speaker
helping guide bereavement groups to the nurses in the ICU. Did this happen prior to your mom passing in 2012 or after? So you were already in that field. Please share. Yes, yes. And actually, I worked as a nurse in the pediatric intensive care unit at Duke University in Durham, North Carolina. And I worked there from about 2001 to 2006, I think. So about a five or six year period in there.
00:08:50
Speaker
And my mom at the time, I think was living in Florida still. So anyway, during that time, I just always had an interest, because in the ICU, we had a lot of children pass away. And so I was witness to families losing a child, which was really very, very hard. And I always had an interest in what things we do for them around the death process, how different people react,
00:09:18
Speaker
I used to talk with the other nurses like, what happens when they go home? What happens when all the dust settles and they're at home and they don't have their child anymore? I don't know. I just always had an interest in that. For a couple of seasons, I would teach the bereavement part of our orientation. I really liked that. We used to make little handprints.
00:09:42
Speaker
Little locks of hair, you know just and how we can support families as they're going through that and you know, I remember it stands out very vividly to me there was a a child who had been hospitalized for it was going on probably a year and a half and the child had been in the ICU for a number of months now and the other child she had two children the other child was probably like six and came to her and
00:10:11
Speaker
with a picture of himself and said, I'm gonna put this here, like in the other, the sick child's bed, so you don't forget me. So, cause she was so focused on that child, you know? And so clearly he wasn't connecting with her in a way that was supportive for him. And so that really stood out. Thank you. Thank you for sharing those little stories. And I can see it brings up emotion, those memories, right?
00:10:41
Speaker
Yeah, it is and it is that it's that part of grief really not really leaving our side and these waves that just come unexpectedly. This is you reliving a moment that happened how many years ago, Susie? Probably, gosh, it was probably 2002, 2003. Yeah, this is like 20 years ago and yet the emotions just come up when we relive them and they really do
00:11:08
Speaker
kind of create a pivotal moment in our lives too. And the thing is, is that as a healthcare provider, you almost get what they call, I forget what they call it, but like secondary trauma almost, you know, because you have to, you know, you can't just leave all that in the unit, you take it home with you, you know, you don't just leave it there, so. Yeah, it's like really hard. You were talking about comfort, mentalizing, kind of putting things in buckets,
00:11:37
Speaker
And right even before the interview that there's so many things in our life that we are like, okay, do I talk about this part of my life, this part? And here it's like, you've just left the hospital having experienced something hard. Like how do you not end up taking that in some shape or form into your life? And honestly, there, there is an aspect of that that can be beneficial because we've taken a lesson and an emotion that will then
00:12:07
Speaker
help us and grow and implement in our own lives. And in this case for you, you did have then grief knock on your door at your home some years later. So let's talk about your mom's diagnosis with ALS and go from there. Okay.
00:12:33
Speaker
So my mom was always a really vibrant person. She'd had two kids at a young age. So my sisters are a bit older than me. And then me, I was the baby, the only one with my mom and my dad. And so her life was a little easier when she had me. So it was a little bit more joyous and less stressful than when she had my older siblings. But so she was helping me with my, and she was always very healthy, very healthy,
00:12:59
Speaker
She was rollerblading. I mean, she watched my kids. You know, at the time I had little kids. I had a baby and my daughter was probably three-ish. And she was 69 at the time. And I noticed she was getting tired. Like I even said to my husband, like, she's kind of getting tired. And he said, yeah, I guess that's what happens when you get older.
00:13:20
Speaker
And then I saw her almost trip a couple of times. And I said in my, you know, I was, I was wound tight at that time in my life. And I just said, mom, pick up your feet. You're going to trip, you know? And so not very supportive. And then she had fallen a couple of times. And I'm like, that's strange. And she happened to be seeing a podiatrist at the time because she had had bunion surgery.
00:13:42
Speaker
And as a medical provider, I have access to something that's called UpToDate. It's uptodate.com. Patients can get to it, but I have the provider version where I can see it all. So I thought she had foot drop, what I thought was foot drop. And I thought, well, let me look up foot drop in this guide I have. And it just...
00:14:03
Speaker
went through ALS as one of the potentials. And when I looked at it, like I just had a feeling and I looked at the description and I thought, that's what she has. And so, and at the time I was working at Duke, but in a, I was a nurse practitioner at that time. So I was working in their outpatient, like a family practice.
00:14:26
Speaker
And I kept saying to her, mom, I think you need a neurologist. You know, I think you need neurology. And she'd be like, Oh, I'll go back to the podiatrist. I'm like, no, that's not going to cut it. So anyway, she went to a neurologist, not in the Duke system, but a neighboring one. And I would watch the neurologist do her exam.
00:14:43
Speaker
every couple of weeks or whatever it was. And I could see the progression. I could see, because ALS is a very distinct progression depending on where it starts. It can start in your feet, your legs, or your hands and your arms, or it can start with your mouth. So her started in her feet and I just watched the progression just like it says in the textbooks.
00:15:04
Speaker
So Duke had a multidisciplinary ALS clinic that was headed up by a leading researcher in ALS. So I said, give us a referral over to Duke.
00:15:15
Speaker
And she said, you know, her, the provider and I got into a little tiff because I said, listen, my mom has ALS. I've been watching you. I've watched your exams every single time. And it's progressing exactly the way ALS does. And she said, I don't know why you're so quick to give your mom a diagnosis. And I'm like, I'm just telling you, you know it. And so do I. So just give us a referral. We'll be on our way.
00:15:40
Speaker
So I knew there really wasn't much to do for it. Cause I remember when I learned about ALS in school, I thought, um, gosh, I'm glad I don't know anybody with that disease, you know? And I hadn't ever known anybody with that disease. So she gets an appointment with Duke, but like six months from whatever timeframe it was.
00:16:00
Speaker
So I usually don't throw out things like I'm a provider at Duke. I, you know, I don't throw out that I'm a medical professional. And so I was like, well, I might have to throw that out this time. So I called and I said, my mom has a referral, but she's put off for six months and she's not going to be walking in six months. And I just said to lady, listen, I'm a provider at Duke. I've watched every single thing, how she's gone on.
00:16:27
Speaker
I know that she needs to be seen there." And she said, well, hold on just a minute. And then she goes, how about two weeks? And I was like, yes, two weeks is better. So the first day in the ALS clinic and any other ALS family in the Duke Clinic will tell you the same thing. That first day we were there at 11 hours. So he looked through every bit of her medical record, her scans. We went over and did a
00:16:53
Speaker
It was called an EMG where they put little needles in all your different muscle groups. And at the end of the day, he says, I really do think it's ALS, but it could be a copper deficiency or HIV. And because she had been a nurse some time ago, she couldn't ever remember like a needle stick or anything, but you know, who knows?
00:17:16
Speaker
So I looked at her and I said, well, this sucks. And she said, I'm going to start sucking on pennies. And I said, well, I hope you have AIDS. You know, like, cause I thought anything is better than ALS, you know? So that was the first day, you know, of our journey and then it went for about two years. Uh, she ended up moving in with us. I had little kids. My husband was in school and working. I was working.
00:17:42
Speaker
You know, of course I loved her cause she was my mom and we were really close. And so it was really hard to see. It's almost like, you know, with Alzheimer's, you lose your, your mind, right? You can't remember who you are and anybody in your, in your family and you don't have anything because of that. But with this, you lose your body, even though your mind may still be intact. Right. So it's just very interesting that whole course of time. So that was very, um, emotional and
00:18:12
Speaker
You know, cause she couldn't even move her own body. I'd have to turn her like every couple hours, like a, like a baby. Like when you have a newborn, you're up every couple hours, right? So I was doing that kind of thing. And she finally went into hospice and was in hospice for about a month, which is like kind of unheard of. Um, but she was in hospice for about a month. Really great care. It was Wake County hospice. I think they call it something else now in North Carolina. It's in Raleigh, but really great support for the kids. They were doing a pilot program with, um,
00:18:40
Speaker
a child therapist who was worked just with kids. And then I had somebody else to work with. And with hospice, if people don't know, don't be scared of hospice. It was just an amazing, amazing service. And they provide counseling for somewhere between six months and 12 months after the death. And it was free. It was really helpful to us to have that.
00:19:08
Speaker
resource that was really I can't say enough about hospice and you know those nurses know a lot more about death and dying and the process and it's really pretty fascinating. I could relate to that even though my mom's hospice experience was shorter because of she had cancer but so it's shorter but I agree it's the
00:19:31
Speaker
It's something that is so helpful, especially when you're feeling so helpless to have this assistance and help by others that know how to not only care for the patient, but also give you the support and guidance that you need as a caregiver. And for you to take that step, Susie, of being able to realize when you had already
00:19:57
Speaker
done what was in your capacity, not only as a daughter, but as a nurse and make that choice to help have her get hospice and help. I want to just really give you kudos for that because I know that sometimes our ego can kind of just be there. No, no, no, I can do it myself. I can do it myself. I can do it myself. Can you take us into that emotion, please?
00:20:22
Speaker
I appreciate you saying that, but it really wasn't me. So, you know. Okay. Brian, was it Brian? Who do we give kudos to? So the ALS clinic is really, when I say multifactorial or multidisciplinary, it has everybody, everybody, speech therapist, social workers. You know, I think they probably connected us up with hospice in the house to begin with.
00:20:49
Speaker
And when they were seeing what was going on with my family and how stressed I was, that's when one of the hospice lead who is a nurse usually was talking to me about inpatient. And I thought, that's a good idea. And so she said, sometimes we'll consider hospice even when the caregiver strain is too much.
00:21:16
Speaker
So I was like, maybe that happened here. And she was like, yeah, maybe. You know, because it was hard on all of us. And my mom didn't really have a huge desire to stay in the house necessarily. And she thought if she could help us out, you know, so I will say that even just the initial conversation of hospice, which I think came from a referral from Duke, she would go like roll her eyes, you know, because like, oh, this is not what I want to be doing, you know,
00:21:46
Speaker
But I would say to her mom is, you know, they give you good meds and they'll help you with support. And it doesn't mean that, you know, this is it right here now, you know, but it's just another month. Yeah. And that was a month that she had that care and, and that way too, you can really go back to being the daughter and that relationship of really being there for her as a daughter in her last days and removing yourself a little bit from that role of
00:22:16
Speaker
caretaker in that moment and also sinking into your own emotions and your own grief, because sometimes when you're doing and caring for another person, your own emotions go on the back burner, right? And therefore you're not able to address all this, that if you had known that she had ALS, this was something you knew, you as a family knew that this was going to be
00:22:43
Speaker
something that was going to be the cause of her death unless something else took her prior, right? Sometimes that can happen. So preparing for that, that is a lot. Tell us then how was that journey of grief, not only from her diagnosis on, but also then
00:23:02
Speaker
after, and especially since you had done work also in bereavement in hospitals, now suddenly it's you dealing with it. Right. And it was interesting because Dr. Bedlack, that's his name, the doctor that runs the ALS clinic, really encourages his patients to be advocates. You know, so they do a, every year in Washington, DC, they have an ALS Capitol Hill days where you go and you advocate for services to your
00:23:30
Speaker
representatives on Capitol Hill. And so we did that. I feel like it put us into some action that felt like for both of us, we were like, well, maybe whatever we do now, we'll help people after you. You know, so it did at least because we both have that caretaking in us. So I think we thought, well, this I mean, this sucks, but let's do what we can to to pay it forward if we can to help. So I mean, she was in studies and stuff like that. But
00:24:00
Speaker
But the grief, I think, and I heard this, other people say it. Actually, Dr. Bedlight said to me, there's so many patients and families that are so angry, really angry. And we weren't angry. We always used a lot of humor. So even in the clinic, we were always laughing and joking and maybe cussing every now and then. So the people would laugh. And we had a good relationship with them. But they said that there's so much anger. And now, when I know more about grief,
00:24:31
Speaker
I'm like, that's one of the ways that it can be disguised, right? Is angry and among many other ways to be disguised. I mean, we weren't angry, but I would say sad and like kind of disappointed. And it's that, that grief over what is now, but also grief over what won't be, right? So all of those things that you have grief over and you don't even realize that when you're in it, you can kind of see it more when you're out of it.
00:25:02
Speaker
And after she passed away, which was hard, my cousin was with her, but after she passed away, a really good friend of mine gave me this big bear hug and she just hugged me forever. And she said, it'll get better in like 20 years. And I was like, cause she had lost her mom when she was a teenager. And I was like, I have to wait 20 years. And she's like, yeah, give or take. So I was like, I don't know. Is that reassuring? I don't know.
00:25:30
Speaker
But you know what, that is actually, it's something that was probably more truthful than anything else that's ever said. Because I normally say you carry it with you. Like just right now you just ended up bringing up an emotion and a memory from so many more years than that, you know, 20 years. And it's still brought up emotion. So we do not know when it's gonna navigate. So she was very candid and with you. Right, yeah.
00:25:59
Speaker
Yeah. And that's another thing, right, is to help people. It really, it really surprised me of creative. First, you're in the cute phases and you're just trying to get all the logistics planned and blah, blah, blah. But then, you know, once the dust settles, it's like, how do people support people who are grieving and no one talks about it? And so there were two things that stood out to me a lot, which was nobody talks about it. They act like it doesn't
00:26:29
Speaker
exist. And then the other thing was nobody knows what to do or say or how to help. And so when I had my children, people would bring over dinners and bring you some groceries or a coffee or whatever, because it's a joyous thing and they want to help. And I think people want to help when it comes to people who are grieving, but we don't know what to say or what to do.
00:26:58
Speaker
I used to just think when somebody else would be grieving, I would say, especially if it was at work, I would say, I honor what you're going through. I don't want to make you cry. I just know that I'm thinking about you. Or if it's someone that I know a little bit better, you can just bring them food or just do something. When you say things like, call me if you need anything. I remember when I was grieving, I'm like, I'm not calling anybody. First of all, I don't like asking for help.
00:27:28
Speaker
And second of all, I'm too wound up with everything else, so I'm certainly not going to call somebody. So that wasn't that helpful. So I really wanted to think, how can I help people who are grieving in a better way? And just even talking about how we don't talk about it can be helpful. And isn't it a shame that medical providers were not trained in grief?
00:27:54
Speaker
We're trained to have that, especially physicians, but it can be anybody, to have that desk between you and the patient, right? And so we don't know what to say, we don't know what to do. Even now, a friend of mine was telling me she works in a place where they do chemotherapy, and she's like, all the workers are just toxic, like their vibe is awful, and they're not kind to the scared people, right?
00:28:22
Speaker
So why, we can be human still. I don't know, I just went on talking with- No, no, it's perfect. You know what you said regarding that part of-
00:28:33
Speaker
in environments in which death is so prevalent, and in this case, like you were saying, even just in the chemo, I wonder if sometimes the reason we feel so uncomfortable bringing it up is, again, whether it just brings up our own mortality, and we're so fearful of death.
00:28:53
Speaker
that we kind of try to stay away from talking about it and realizing that it's a reality we're all going to face. And when someone's grieving, even the part that they don't even know when they're talking with somebody that's grieving, whether they can even mention the person's name that just died. And yes, that is the first thing you want to do. Say their names.
00:29:23
Speaker
Ask them for a memory that they had of that person. So what were some of the things that people did do when your mom died that were like, okay, this is bringing me comfort in this moment. Well, I will give you an example that is kind of off the wall. So my mom and her sister, my aunt Carolyn, we're always very close, close in age, but close emotionally.
00:29:48
Speaker
You know, and so my aunt Carolyn has a daughter named Suzanne. Suzanne's a little older than me. And we've always had, all of us have always had this crazy love of animals. We love cats, we love animals. I mean, it's like a little bit, you know, unhinged.
00:30:04
Speaker
Suzanne came to help me because she didn't have she doesn't have kids She doesn't she had a significant other but he said just go help whatever She came to stay with us for a while, but my children were little and Suzanne is like a grown-up child So we had in the living in the house. I had my own cats that my mom had her own cats We had six cats in the house. It was a big house, but still there were six
00:30:26
Speaker
So my cousin got a bunch of catnip. The kids dressed up with capes and different things, and they had a catnip party in our den. It was like a Cheech and Chong scenario. I mean, the kids were in there. The cats were all high. You gave the kids sugar, basically. You gave the kids sugar and the cats catnip. And I was just thinking, OK, this is
00:30:51
Speaker
a little crazy, but at least the kids are having fun. Suzanne's having fun, you know, and the cats are having fun. And I don't have to worry about any of them right now. You know, so just, she would do things like that that just made me think, okay, there's, there's some joy in laughter around, you know, that, and I don't have to worry about the kids right now. She's got them under control and, and the cats are happy.
00:31:17
Speaker
Now, out of the advice that you gave when you were educating some of the nurses on bereavement in the hospital setting, which are some of the things that you said back then regarding bereavement, that then you were like, oh, yeah, that does apply in my own life. Do you recall anything like that? It's hard to remember. I think the things that stand out to me were what are the physical objects that we could create
00:31:47
Speaker
that would allow the parent to have a lasting memory if they wanted it. You know, um, even if they put it away in a box or whatever, you know, what could we do to remember them? So almost like a honor their memory. But the other thing was probably just knowledge of people grieve differently, you know? And like I said, even back then there was a lot of anger.
00:32:14
Speaker
that parents or grandparents could have. There was also a lot of kindness. And I remember one man had come in, his daughter was very sick and he was very angry. And I usually am very calm and say, we're doing everything we know how, this is what we're doing. And just to know that he was so angry and almost a little threatening. And I finally said, sir, I'm going to have to ask you to leave.
00:32:43
Speaker
if we can't work this out. And I don't, I never would say that, but I, you know, just for nurses to have an understanding that there are different levels and different ways people show grief, especially in that acute moment. People are angry. They fight with one another. I remember talking with families because parents a lot of times would break up. You know, it was, it either pulled people together or pushed them apart. So even being able to talk to parents about how
00:33:11
Speaker
You know, this is a hard time that can bring you together as a family or not. And maybe finding those ways that can bring you together instead of pulling you apart. Whatever that was for them, you know? Yeah, it is very, very true. It could happen.
00:33:28
Speaker
a lot of times is whatever already existed there prevalent to grief just kind of magnifies. I feel like grief magnifies all other emotions. So if there was already an underlying issue in a relationship, then all of a sudden it might just feel more magnified because you've had grief already in the, you know, there. The part of you then, okay, grieving then your mom,
00:33:55
Speaker
Then a few years later, then your mom, which by the way, before we transitioned to talking about your dad's passing, can you please share your mom's name? Nancy, her name is Nancy. That's her name. Nancy. So after Nancy passed away, then your dad and your mom, were they still married at that time? No. When she died, they weren't. Okay. So you had a really, okay. Okay. So then your dad then,
00:34:22
Speaker
That was a completely separate chapter then. Of course, he probably grooved in his own way. But tell us about your dad's passing.
00:34:32
Speaker
Well, you know, my dad is the one that had always been a little overweight. He smoked for many years, you know, not that healthy of a guy. And here he was in his mid eighties. He was pretty funny, though. Like he lived in an independent living center at that time. And, you know, he was one of the popular guys. He fixed remote controls. He was an engineer. Right. So fixed remote controls, things like that. And he was I know he never wanted anybody to have to take care of him like in a nursing home situation because he was a pretty big guy.
00:35:03
Speaker
And just one day, my sister who lived in the area around where he lived, that was in South Carolina, texted me, you need to call me, it's about dad. And I just thought, okay, I'm pretty sure I know what this is about. And when I called her, she said, he's gone. And the scenario of what had happened, and I would say that I was just,
00:35:24
Speaker
You know, and I had seen him the Thanksgiving before, which was a few months earlier. And he said, oh, you know, I'm living on borrowed time. I could go anytime. I'm fine with it. You know, was so he had some conversations like that. So for me, his passing, it was sad, but it was also
00:35:41
Speaker
you know, he knew it wasn't that far off, you know, and he had done his planning and things like that. Whereas my mom really hadn't done much planning, right? So he had some plans in place. And it was shocking because you think, well, so final, you know, but not entirely unexpected. And it didn't have, I was thankful that it didn't have to be a prolonged course that the prolonged course of my mom was
00:36:11
Speaker
You know, it was pretty bad. So I was thankful that it was quicker, you know. Your dad died from a fall. You mentioned. Yeah. And they think he either. He either probably would be my guess had a heart attack or stroke fell. He was able to pull the little cord with the I need help. And by the time they got to him, he was unconscious. So and we didn't we didn't bother going through all the why did he die? Because, you know, I mean.
00:36:40
Speaker
Right at that moment. Yes. Yeah, it was okay. So yeah, he had lived his his full life. Your dad's name? Irv. Irvin was his name. Irvin and Irv for short. So in that how did you then you were mentioning that it was even though it was a sudden death and not a prolonged prolonged kind of death to some extent like your mom in terms of diagnosis to dying.
00:37:08
Speaker
the way then you grieved, how was that different, shifted when your dad died? And did that bring up your emotions as well about your mom? I would say yes, but it did a little bit. I would say that I felt more alone because now both of my parents are gone. And I remember thinking, who knows my story now?
00:37:37
Speaker
And I would say I got to see my sister, I hadn't seen in a long time. So it was, there was family, which that was nice. And he lived in a small place. So it wasn't like we had to go through a lot of things, although I seem to inherit the pictures and the things like that. So for me, I'm very sentimental or nostalgic. So I went to look through all the photos and all the things. I would say to my sisters, you guys want this box of like, you know, the little viewfinder things. They're like, no, no, we don't want any of that.
00:38:07
Speaker
It's interesting how some people are so attached to little things that others are so detached from the things. It's just different what you end up realizing you're holding on to. The same goes with memories that you may choose to hold on to when someone dies, maybe very different.
00:38:28
Speaker
Yeah, I'll say it's pretty interesting because as time has gone on, all the little things I was hanging on to like my mom's or his, I'm like, you know, I can get rid of that. It's okay. You know, they wouldn't want me holding on stuff to clutter up my house just because. And one day my my son said, how can we don't have pictures of like our great grandparents or, you know, those kind of people? Who were they? Like, what were their names? Who are they? What do they look like? And
00:38:57
Speaker
I feel like that middle school time, they're asking a lot of questions about that kind of thing, like where do we go when we die and things like that. And he said, well, how is anybody going to remember me when I'm gone? Like if we don't have those memories in our house, who's going to remember me if I have a family like after? And I was like, gosh, I was like, man, I'm an awful mother. You know, like, okay, I need to get some pictures.
00:39:24
Speaker
No, I don't think my kids have seen enough pictures of my grandparents. They had already died before my kids were born. So what a good insight Justin had there of bringing that up. But let's talk now into how it is you shifted from being a nurse to now a more holistic kind of coach and nutrition coach. And then the part that you
00:39:52
Speaker
mentioned regarding grieving certain aspects of in that field too. Okay. Um, so we might take a real left turn here, but yeah, it's fine. I know it's because it's, we want to make, so you have all these buckets we talked about, right? We were trying, we're tapping into all these buckets, which are all part, this is like a summary of Susie's right. Right.
00:40:21
Speaker
And I will say in the last few years, I have what I call concurrent awakenings. Like I happened to find lifestyle medicine by accident. I was working at a place.
00:40:35
Speaker
A patient challenged me to go watch a movie. I did that. My employer said, hey, we'll pay for you to go to the lifestyle medicine conference. I didn't know what that was. So I thought, well, I need some continuing ed hours. I'll go do that. And it really opened my eyes to how powerful lifestyle is for people. And I've always loved that teaching part. People have always said to me, maybe you should go into like psychology. And I'm like, no, no, no, not for me.
00:41:01
Speaker
But I love spending more time with patients, which is why I've kind of diverted more towards coaching side, because I love that part. But what happened in addition to that, this is going to sound very crazy. I have been for many years, 20 plus years ingrained in the, I would call it now reductionist, materialistic,
00:41:27
Speaker
model of our allopathic health care, which we are taught a certain way. Identify a problem, name it, diagnose it, treat it with some kind of Band-Aid or medication, and go on.
00:41:41
Speaker
And not a lot with, you know, if you have a psych problem, you go to psych, right? And how all of the pieces of our bodies are put in these different buckets, but everything works together, you know? And it's much more complicated than that. So lifestyle medicine, I discovered all the science that had been there for a long time that I didn't know. And I would hear again and again, providers, doctors, nurse practitioners saying,
00:42:05
Speaker
I didn't know this information was out there. This science about reversing heart disease has been there for 50 years. Like, why are we just now hearing about it? So it was empowering to me. So I thought, well, I want to empower other people. Now at the same time, probably 2000, let's see, my daughter was probably 2017, 18 timeframe. My daughter was watching all these paranormal videos, you know, and I was very sciency.
00:42:33
Speaker
you know, raised with a little bit of like, my dad was Jewish, my mom used to go to Methodist Church when she was, you know, on holidays, but converted to Judaism, but reform like kind of lacks a daysicle for better word. And so I didn't have that strong base necessarily, but
00:42:54
Speaker
My daughter, I kept saying to her, stop watching those paranormal videos. Like what are you doing? Are you trying to figure this out? And I think that's one reason why I liked the bereavement stuff. I want to figure out where are they going? What happens after? Do we have a soul? Do we have a spirit? Do we not? Like what's happening? You know, trying to understand it better, which I think what she was doing with the paranormal videos. So then fast forward a little bit of time. In St. Augustine,
00:43:18
Speaker
I don't know if you've ever watched Ghost Hunters, I don't watch that stuff, but apparently- I've been to St. Augustine, I've been there, yeah. So, in St. Augustine, I was in St. Augustine, I dropped off Halley to do something, I went to the visitor center just looking around, and I saw these tours for ghost tours or whatever.
00:43:36
Speaker
And I thought, oh, Hallie, maybe I'll get that for her birthday. And I was like, I don't want any standard ghost tour with glow sticks. That seems kind of stupid. But I thought, I want a real paranormal experience. Maybe do that. So I found this guy. I called him. And we had this really nice conversation. And he said, I really don't take many people out. He's like, but you're searching for something. I said, no, it's not for me. It's for my daughter. He's like, no, I think it's for you.
00:44:03
Speaker
He's like, maybe it's both. But anyway, you can come on and I'll take you around. So we met at the St. Augustine Lighthouse. He took us around in the evening. There's a big park there with oak trees. It looks a little spooky at night.
00:44:17
Speaker
We went to the lighthouse. We went out all around the area around there We went over to the kokina mine where they mined all the kokina shells to build the fort that's in st Augustine because apparently there's a lot of spiritual activity there I had no idea and he had said to me why don't you look up the history of st Augustine like the spiritual and I was like, okay Yeah, well, I didn't do that. You know, I'm very like show me the evidence and you know so fast forward we take all these pictures and
00:44:47
Speaker
In a number of my pictures, there were what I would call spirit, right? And I, even my husband, who's, you know, was raised Southern Baptist, he was like, there's something in that photo. And I was like, yes, there is. So it was like, almost like, so then I went onto this, well, what is energy and what is consciousness? And like this whole, there's more than just this little box of physical body that we have that I've been focusing on for a long time in my, you know, career, right?
00:45:17
Speaker
And I even remember when my mom, before she died, she said, I really just think you go on the ground. That's that just, you know, there's nothing else more than that. And I thought, well, maybe she's right. You know, maybe, maybe that's the case. But then I've.
00:45:35
Speaker
since then had this, what I would say a spiritual awakening. So awakening with all this lifestyle stuff and oh my gosh, the science that's been here for a long time that I didn't know about that's empowering. And now this, that seems much more expansive and can add to not only the care I give people, but to enrich my life. You know, so then I started going down the rabbit holes of integrative medicine. Um, I have a book here called deep medicine that really talks all about that mind body connection and really
00:46:03
Speaker
Watching and learning some of that information about it's just really so fascinating and I bought a 50 cent book from the resale shop that was written by Deepak Chopra 30 years ago called quantum healing and it just Fascinated me, you know the intelligence that's in every cell, you know the universe within us and outside of us so it really just expanded how I wanted to work with people and how I wanted my life to be and I decided that I wanted to
00:46:32
Speaker
to be different. Like I wanted to work different. I wanted to come into better alignment with in the Sanskrit terms like Dharma, like your purpose, your life purpose, instead of spending all day at a computer with not enough time with every patient, migraines, you know, debilitating migraines and me being feeling physically
00:46:55
Speaker
sick from doing that kind of work to, I want to do something that's meaningful for me and meaningful for the people I work with. That makes sense. Rambling on, but... No, it makes so much sense. And I'm curious when did all this start, this whole journey of actually trying to... So your mom dies 2012, your dad dies 2017. In those moments, then the toiling of what happens to them and that aspect of
00:47:25
Speaker
the spirit component, and then also with illness with your mom, that all this plays a part into the Susie we have now. So kind of, yeah, tell us the timeline in terms of when you start, because you didn't say dates of that, but just an idea. My mom died in 2012. My dad, I believe in 2017. My daughter,
00:47:52
Speaker
That was 2019. She was 2018 or so. She was watching all those paranormal videos. And then it was her birthday in 2019, which also was the same summer I went to the lifestyle medicine conference. So, okay. So it all started right before. So in 2019, before then the pandemic and all that is that you had kind of already started to shift your view of health as well as your view of what happens after we die.
00:48:21
Speaker
Yes. And the pandemic, I feel very guilty saying it, but I actually loved the little pause because it gave me time to finish up my certification with lifestyle medicine and explore mind body practices and do my coaching curriculum and learn about the electromagnetic healing properties of the earth and reconnecting with nature and all that stuff that's so healing.
00:48:49
Speaker
that I wouldn't have let into my paradigm before. So yeah, yeah, that pause you're right for a lot. It was that it was a big
00:48:59
Speaker
kind of awakening and a lot of time, a lot of people ended up pivoting during this time. One, because they had to, because their jobs were no longer there. Or two, because they realized, wait, what I've been doing all this time is not something that really gives me that fire in my belly and life is something I want to feel that. So definitely shifting. And I know we've been talking for a little bit, but I did want to make sure that I mentioned that there were a couple of things that were transformative for me.
00:49:28
Speaker
that I think are very important because we are all gonna bump up against grief and stress and some level of trauma in our life. It's just how life is, right? And for me, I wish I would have known a lot of things beforehand. What was transformative for me was a meditation practice, which I never would have done before, a meditation practice, gratitude practice, and learning about heart math.
00:49:56
Speaker
and breath work. So HeartMath, I don't know if you've ever heard of HeartMath, but have you heard of it? No. No, I haven't. The HeartMath Institute has been in existence for 30 years and they do such cool stuff with that, like the bioenergetic field and how you can use breath. And even if you just deepen and elongate your breath and then
00:50:22
Speaker
like five or six seconds in, you can pause at the top or not, six or seven seconds out, so a little longer on the out. What that does is that engages the side of your nervous system, that's the relaxation side. So the whole thing about heart math, it just can get a little spiritual as well, but it's very much how we engage your nervous system so that you can manage stress in the moment,
00:50:51
Speaker
And not only that, but build your resilience. So I think that's a really important part is for us to not wait till there's a crisis, but to be able to build our resilience as we go so that when you do come across those things, you can return back to your normal natural state of balance and wholeness and completeness without too much trouble. And you don't get lost in the chaos, right? Because those things are always going to be there.
00:51:19
Speaker
the meditation practice I started learning much more about meditation and I will say when I was in the throes of everything my mom was sick my medical director kind of he sauntered everywhere sauntered over and puts a thing next to me and it was a mindfulness practice and I said what's this and I pushed it back I said I don't have time for that and he said you're the exact kind of person that needs that right now and it was until 10 years later that I thought you know my daughter and I were having a lot of friction and I thought I have to be different I have to find a way to be different
00:51:48
Speaker
So I didn't know how to meditate. So I did one of those apps that would walk you through a meditation, found heart math, and did their, they have an interventions protocol for practitioners. So I can use it with patients and you can see in real time, what's called your heart rate variability. So, which is a proxy for how tuned up like your nervous system is. Like how engaged are you? Are you keyed up or are you relaxed? You know, so we should be,
00:52:15
Speaker
working on relaxed most of the time. And then you're going to have instances where you kind of turn up, but then you should return back to normal. So I think if we work on building our resilience, which also along with gratitude practice, it changes your brain structures, but it also changes your outlook on life, your connectedness with other people.
00:52:34
Speaker
feelings of love, feelings of compassion, and what better time to have all that stuff? It's so perfect because it does end up showing how science and spirituality really do and can be intertwined. Oh, for sure. And you can see that because these meditative practices have always had this spiritual component that people think they have breath work, but yet there is, again, proof scientifically of what happens in your body
00:53:04
Speaker
when you're doing this and then outwardly the effects it has then on your interactions with others. So it's like a whole ripple effect from there on. And not to mention not just the behavioral things, but it also improves your immune system.
00:53:20
Speaker
It improves your sleep all these different physiological things we think of in our physical body and improves all that stuff, too So and it really does there's a lady at Harvard that's done research on meditation and looking at brain scans and it really does Change the structures in your brain that are more health promoting and longevity promoting so very interesting stuff
00:53:45
Speaker
Yes, and now that you, what you do, that you now incorporate this into your holistic practice. I want to ask you because you mentioned really kind of that part of the, you see currently I've shifted into holistic health coaching role and learned so much more about the intersection of human and planetary health and how that in itself brings you
00:54:13
Speaker
an aspect of grief. Explain to me that when you wrote that in this, it just like, I'm like, okay, I want to ask her about that. Yeah. So when I learned about lifestyle medicine, so one of the things that we talk about is, um, if you want to reverse disease, eating cleaner, first of all, up leveling your choices of diet with eating tons of whole plant foods. So as close to the way mother nature gave it as possible,
00:54:40
Speaker
The gold star kind of being a whole food, plant-based diet. So there's a lot of keto out there, paleo, things like that. And some of those can be helpful, but when you, if everybody ate keto, we'd need four planet earths to, to house all of the animals to be able to feed everybody. But if you just, and we grow so much corn and wheat and soy to feed the animals that then feeds us and they're getting their fiber.
00:55:07
Speaker
and their nutrients from, well, for cows, it should be grass. But then they're given soy and corn, which is not their natural feed. So just recognizing there's been, even the UN says if everybody shifted to one day of like a meatless Monday, that would totally change a lot of our climate issues. And so even more so than the transportation industry. So I learned some of the connections between
00:55:36
Speaker
health, how we eat, what we choose to eat and, and how that affects our planet. And then I've read a couple of books and you know, one of the things that a lot of people agree on, there was a symposium that people came together from all different thoughts and they said diet should be good for the human. It should be good for the planet and it should be unapologetically delicious. So just because, um,
00:56:01
Speaker
You know, maybe you take meat out or you make it like a little condiment doesn't mean that you shouldn't be satisfied and eat beautiful food, you know, the more colors you eat. They have the if you think about it like plants have that.
00:56:15
Speaker
the energy from the sun that are packed into them, we eat them, and that powers up our mitochondria and the powerhouses of our bodies. That's how we get that kind of energy. Not to mention it's great for our gut. Then there's our gut and our brain connection. So all of those, it's all interconnected. Everything is interconnected. And as I've learned more, I've always loved animals. As you heard from my childhood, I was finding critters all the time.
00:56:42
Speaker
You know, I thought, you know, I really do want to do well for the planet and well for myself, um, and better for my patients. So I'm, I really want to be able to live that and have people up level their choices, whether they choose to take meat out or not. Like how about a little bit more sustainably raised, you know, a little bit more humane and just having knowledge around that and avoiding toxins because those are in there too.
00:57:08
Speaker
Yeah, that is, again, back to just the, even just in ourselves and medical practice, having to look at the body as a whole, the same thing here as we are part of this whole and being the planet. So we have to look at the whole health. It's like so below. I mean, it's like what's going on. And when you start looking at
00:57:30
Speaker
there are these reports about how we might only have about 40 years worth of soil health left. And if you think about that, our soil is degraded as it is. And if we only have 40 more years, that's your child's lifetime, my child's lifetime, grandchildren at the planet still here. So I mean, those seem very doomsday-ish, but you know, if you can choose a little better, why not? I mean, if it's going to help you and help the planet, why not do it? And so that's where I think some of that grief comes in where you're like, oh my gosh, like this could be my lifetime.
00:57:59
Speaker
which, um, the planet would survive us. So anyway, just thinking that like how all that plays together and how compassion, compassion for each other, compassion for animals, compassion for our natural world can really, it really is all connected. And in addition to that, how we've moved so far away from connection with the natural rhythms and that affects our biology and our physiology and our health. So being able to,
00:58:26
Speaker
to get back to the rhythms of nature. People, before lights, which was not that long ago, we lived according to the sun. You ate when it was light outside, but you didn't eat when it was dark outside or whatever, you know? Maybe getting back to some of that will help our overall health, especially sleep.
00:58:41
Speaker
Yes, you would go to sleep when the lights are out, and we would keep on stimulating our eyesight with our phones flashing in our face, which we do. It affects our sleep, of course, as well. So it's all interconnected.
00:58:59
Speaker
Before we go into how people can reach you, is there anything I did not ask you that is written in your notes that you're like, oh my goodness, I do not want to miss not saying this, that you would like to share with our audience?
00:59:13
Speaker
You know, I've touched on a lot of the things that I wanted to touch on. Of course, um, I did want to mention that the heart math, I mentioned that they do have a free, um, they made it free during the pandemic. It's called the heart math experience. I can send you the notes, but it's please, and I'll add it in the show. So people can do that. And it's really helpful. I don't know the other.
00:59:35
Speaker
I don't think I think I've mentioned most of what I what I wanted to, of course, we could jump down any rabbit hole we wanted to. But oh, there's also very fascinating a connection between our minds and our and our brain. There's a couple of really great books. So when we're talking about food, there's a one called Your Mind on Food written by a Harvard doc. And then there's another one called The Mind The Mind Gut Connection. And if people are interested in getting nerdy about that kind of thing.
01:00:05
Speaker
That's the other brain. That's the other thing we forget is the gut. And interestingly, our vagus nerve connects. It comes from from our nervous system, connects our heart and our gut. So there is the gut, the heart and the brain superhighway. So perfect. Thank you. And this is all about just really
01:00:25
Speaker
optimizing the quality of our life as well and that of the planet that we will be leaving behind. And I love that we were able to really see this kind of progression of you and your story and how having experience
01:00:45
Speaker
really grief in your own life and the death of your parents really kind of spearheaded you into finding just other ways of helping others as well as yourself. So thank you so much, Susie. Now tell us how people can reach you and I'll make sure to link your website below as well. Okay. So my website is vital, V I T A L like vital signs, vital transformations, LLC.com. And I'm also on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn. So those are some ways people can
01:01:15
Speaker
You can find me. And you do virtual coaching if people are not in the area of Florida. Perfect. Thank you so much again, Susie. You're welcome. And thank you to your son and my nephew who connected us for this conversation. You're right, yes. I was excited to talk to you. I appreciate your time.
01:01:35
Speaker
I'm so excited that you reached out and that you're here and we're going to get, I learned a lot in the audience. I'm sure we'll get a lot of information as well. So thank you.
01:01:50
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone,
01:02:15
Speaker
who may need to hear this, please do so. Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.