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#93 - Teddy Dimitrova - Rondhuis | Freelance Talent Acquisition Manager, Speaker and Author
97 Plays2 months ago
Teddy Dimitrova is driven by a passion for self-improvement and organizational growth. With experience spanning start-ups, scale-ups, and larger organizations, she excels in balancing people, processes, and technologies, enjoying the challenge of finding solutions to strategic puzzles. Her strength lies in identifying bottlenecks and developing actionable solutions both in the short and long term. As a proponent of servant leadership, she focuses on enabling and inspiring colleagues to excel and find fulfillment in their work. Her core values include connection, balance, flexibility, and progress, while she continues to work on enhancing patience and refining her communication style.
Shownotes
00:00 - Intro & Context
03:45 - Panic Hiring: A Recipe for Disaster
18:20 - Building a Recruitment Infrastructure from Scratch
29:50 - Scaling Challenges: The Double-Edged Sword of Growth
Links
Guest Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/teddydimitrova/
Thomas Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomas-kohler-pplwise/
Thomas e-mail: [email protected]
pplwise: https://pplwise.com/
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Transcript
Interview Introduction with Teddy Timmittova
00:00:00
Speaker
today's guest teddy timmittova the author of the book unic universe don't exist What are the most patterns you see in terms of problems you face when companies start scaling?
00:00:16
Speaker
um Let me think.
What are the challenges in scaling companies?
00:00:19
Speaker
so I think that one you already mentioned the the the first pattern with actually managers that are becoming managers ah because of personal preferences, recommendations, or even someone started as an intern five years ago and now because they've been with us for five years, we give them a management function without us making sure that they're trained into it.
00:00:41
Speaker
so that's um That's a challenging pattern. I would say also um the the two different poles of going really rigid on quality. So really going into, we need to hire two, 300 people, but they have to be the eight players out there with the the unicorns, with the sheep, with the five legs and so on.
00:01:06
Speaker
or going into the exact opposite of mass hiring and just feet hiring on good feeling what the hiring manager feels like it's right we do that i am panic hiring i think that this is probably the biggest pattern that i see in every single company so when i say but panic hiring i mean reactive rather than proactive recruit. So there is a problem somewhere and then you solve it for for an open role and it needs to be filled now and you throw it into the capacity even if you don't know if it's even doable and if the role is maybe not probably scoped out something like this. Yeah, exactly.
How does rapid scaling affect company efficiency?
00:01:46
Speaker
And then what happens is that because the investors are pushing us to hire, to grow as soon as possible, to burn that money that came in into the company,
00:01:56
Speaker
um We end up hiring with basically a mask in front of our eyes, like shooting in the dark. You end up scaling the company from, let's say, 70 people to 100 in one and a half years. But then you find out that the company is not running properly. It's not efficient. um You're losing money instead of making money. People don't even know what they're doing.
00:02:20
Speaker
And then what happens is that we're scaling down. So layoffs are happening. And then figure out that you can actually do the same job with half of the people that you've hired. That's true. um And I think that's also part of venture capital. You place bets and work in parallel, right? And that's actually and the beauty of it because you have speed um and a bit of confidence to just get going and do things. um I think just a lot of companies are not able maybe to communicate this and in the proper way. and um act in a way that they behave.
What are common mistakes in workforce scaling?
00:02:55
Speaker
adjusted to the situation and also are aware of what's coming maybe later on. Because usually what you could also see on LinkedIn when companies scale for one, two, three years, double, even triple or so on, at some point there is usually a plateau coming where there are layoffs. And maybe it's not happening in the overall company that there is some kind of consolidation and you let people go again, but let's say you scale up the product and tech team and then suddenly at some point you see, okay,
00:03:20
Speaker
um We overdid it and then you um ah adjust and just focus on the one, two things that are really working and the rest you maybe distribute somewhere else in the organization or let go. But in parallel, you already add people somewhere else. And then the same thing is happening all over again, sometimes in parallel, sometimes a bit later, but it's happening continuously.
What motivates Teddy to write about recruitment?
00:03:46
Speaker
And today we did the podcast around that, talking about what founders or companies, when they don't have any setup in terms of a recruiter, in terms of um tools, methodologies, systems, the infrastructure to scale maybe from 30, 50, 70 to plus hundred people. um What are the common patterns in terms of mistakes, problems, why, and how to solve them and fix them.
00:04:13
Speaker
Then you can build trust and then you can spend less time communicating and more time just getting shit done. Then I went home and and thought about this sentence. We basically put it on the table. Hiring takes time. People are trained. How to objectively judge certain situations. It's very, very, very, very hard to change things. That was the learning. Entrepreneurs with empathy. To the people's side.
00:04:32
Speaker
Teddy, great to see you again. I remember ah um we were in the VR developers tech recruiting conference and suddenly we stood next to each other um talking to each other. And then I was really excited about your book, Unicorns Don't Exist. And this made me curious. um You gave me the book. I read over it.
00:04:55
Speaker
And now we are here doing a podcast about it. I'm really looking forward to that. Maybe we can start with a bit of more context about yourself. Sure. Well, first of all, thanks for inviting me. um I'm a looking back ah with a smile to we are developers. I think your talk over there was very inspiring. I'm actually already implementing some of the stuff that you shared with us. um And at the same time, I think we have a lot of interesting chats. um So yeah, it's very nice to see you again.
00:05:24
Speaker
um Yeah, a little bit about myself, um for the people that don't know me.
Teddy's background in tech recruitment
00:05:31
Speaker
I'm originally Bulgarian, but I live in the Netherlands, basically my whole grown up life. I came here to study and then basically I stayed, built up a life here. um Ended up marrying a Dutch guy, so kind of, now I'm half Dutch, I suppose, after all these years. um I've been in recruitment for a decade now.
00:05:53
Speaker
um mostly tech recruitment, very specialized in startups and scale ups. This is something that always has given me a lot of energy because I'm really am a builder. I really like to solve problems, ah thinking out of the box and who beat how bigger the problem, the more excited I get.
00:06:12
Speaker
um So after, I would say, seven, eight years working as a freelancer, seeing probably more than 40 different startups and scale ups across the globe, um I thought, okay, I really want to put all of my thoughts and ideas on paper and share it with the world. um I saw a very common problem when we as recruiters often come in, and in a let's say, in a scale up.
00:06:40
Speaker
The founders say, oh, I'm hiring you because we need to scale. We need to hire 100 people. So can you start tomorrow? And ideally, we already want to hire people immediately.
What infrastructure issues do startups face in recruitment?
00:06:50
Speaker
But then we come in and we see there is no infrastructure. There is no process. There are no scorecards. The stakeholders are biased. So we actually spend our first half a year to a year to implement ATSs and end processes and to train our stakeholders ah while we're expected actually to hit the ground running.
00:07:12
Speaker
So with putting all my experiences and thoughts and ideas in a book, I'm actually hoping to kind of help the recruiters out there to, um yeah, avoid this. So I'm hoping that founders who read this book would think like, okay, that's actually very useful for me to implement all those little things. So then when actually the recruiters come in, they can do their job. Yeah, that's ah that's it in a nutshell, I would say about- What's this KDAB for you?
Characteristics of scaleups and leadership challenges
00:07:42
Speaker
I would say in in my experience, so the type of scaleups that I've worked with is ah somewhere up until 500-600 employees. Okay, so there is a lot of things happening, right? from So I think to reach that stage, you really need significant traction somewhere from the story that investors believe from the prototypes you built or from the revenue you make.
00:08:09
Speaker
and um In order to get there, there needs to be um something already established. And from my, I would say, not definition, but experience, I would categorize scaleups more when they first time, as you said, maybe double from 100 to.
00:08:26
Speaker
more than 100, 50, 100, 200, 250. When this sort of stage is reached, then you just don't have just one organization. You suddenly need to build several organizations mostly in parallel or launch
Why do first-time founders struggle with hiring?
00:08:42
Speaker
several complexities like new products, new markets in parallel by doing something. And um that's getting complicated. And then usually also the founders, they are maybe not so involved anymore in everything. And then suddenly you have managers that need to make things happen. And every manager has different level of experience, different style, different attitude. yeah The first managers that are hired into that stages are maybe just hired from recommendation or personal preference from founders that they think, oh, I am confident in they do things like me.
00:09:24
Speaker
And then suddenly you have a very fragmented leadership team the first time you build it usually, if it's if it's done by first time founders usually. And then the chaos is happening, right? What what is what are the most most um patterns you see in terms of problems you face when um companies start scaling?
How important is cultural fit in recruitment?
00:09:47
Speaker
um Let me think. so I think that one you already mentioned the the the first pattern with actually managers that are becoming managers ah because of personal preferences, recommendations, or even someone started as an intern five years ago and now because they've been with us for five years, we give them a management function without us making sure that they're trained into it.
00:10:11
Speaker
so that's um That's a challenging pattern. I would say also um the the two different poles of going really rigid on quality. So really going into, we need to hire two, 300 people, but they have to be the eight players out there with the the unicorns, with the sheep, with the five legs and so on.
00:10:36
Speaker
or going into the exact opposite of mass hiring and just feet hiring on good feeling. What the hiring manager feels like, it's right, we do that.
00:10:47
Speaker
In case you like my show, please subscribe. I would really appreciate it. i am Panic hiring, I think that this is probably the biggest pattern that I see in every single company. So when I say but panic hiring, I mean reactive rather than proactive recruit. So there is a problem somewhere and then you solve it for for an open role and it needs to be filled now.
00:11:10
Speaker
and you throw it into the capacity, even if you don't know if it's even doable. And if the role is maybe not probably scoped out, something like this. Yeah, exactly. And then what happens is that because the investors are pushing us to hire, to grow as soon as possible, to burn that money that came into the company, um we end up hiring with basically Yeah, a mask in front of our eyes, like shooting in the dark. You end up scaling the company from, let's say, 70 people to 100 in one and a half years. But then you find out that the company is not running properly. It's not efficient. um You're losing money instead of making money. People don't even know what they're doing.
00:11:54
Speaker
And then what happens is that we're scaling down. So layoffs are happening. And then figure out that you can actually do the same job with half of the people that you've hired. That's true. um And I think that's also part of venture capital. You place bets and work in parallel, right? And that's actually and the beauty of it because you have speed um and a bit of confidence to just get going and do things. um I think just a lot of companies are not able maybe to communicate this in the proper way. and um Act in a way that they behave.
00:12:29
Speaker
adjusted to the situation and also are aware of what's coming maybe later on. Because usually what you could also see on LinkedIn when companies scale for one, two, three years, double, even triple or so on, at some point there is usually a plateau coming where there are layoffs. And maybe it's not happening in the overall company that there is some kind of consolidation and you let people go again, but let's say you scale up the product and tech team and then suddenly at some point you see, okay,
00:12:54
Speaker
um We overdid it and then you um ah adjust and just focus on the one, two things that are really working and the rest you maybe distribute somewhere else in the organization or let go. But in parallel, you already add people somewhere else. And then the same thing is happening all over again, sometimes in parallel, sometimes um a bit later, but it's happening continuously. And I think this is just the beauty, but also the The act of scaling and being able to, to adjust to that. And you wrote your book around how to deal with that situation.
00:13:31
Speaker
And, or actually like, and again, this is more of a reactive than proactive attitude. So if you want to deal with those situations, you're already too late. So actually yeah but be proactive. So the book is much more focused on really early stage startups. You know, when the founders don't even have a recruiter yet, or don't have even money to hire a recruiter.
00:13:57
Speaker
um and I'm helping them hire the first 30, 40 people without the help of a recruiter, um but in the proper way. because We all know that if you don't have the right people on board in the early stages, then it's like a domino effect further in in your company. and and That happens very often. Again, with the recommendations, I'm going to hire my wife.
00:14:20
Speaker
to be head of HR despite of the fact that she has never done HR in her life, or I'm going to hire um my neighbor to be a CFO because he did some, I don't know, mathematics or something in high school. And then this um goes down ah in the future in ah in ah in a very negative way. So um because hiring in startups often happens also again based on good feelings, often founders hire for The unknown, they've never um ah hired a person like this before. They even don't know what that person does. They make mistakes. They don't make sure that they know exactly what they're looking for, what are the qualities of this person, hard skills, soft skills, motivation, and stuff like that. And they inspire us down in the future.
00:15:09
Speaker
How would you start?
Steps to create a cohesive recruitment process
00:15:10
Speaker
A founder of 30 people now grows maybe to 50, 60, no recruiting setup there, maybe one co-founder, the hires that have been made mainly through personal references, their network, and maybe a bit of LinkedIn sourcing through their own profile at night.
00:15:29
Speaker
yeah yeah um What I do usually with with my clients that are around this stage is we sit down with the founding team and maybe they already have management team as well. And we go down to to the basics, really to the core of the company, which is the culture.
00:15:46
Speaker
If we manage to define very well what the culture of the company is, so what are the cultural values, what is and the type of organization that they want to become also in the future, we can dissect this into skills and attitude of the people that we want to hire.
00:16:08
Speaker
And then we translate that into um the profiles of the candidates. We build scorecards around it and we make sure that every single person that is being interviewed is evaluated not only based on can you recruit or or can you can you code in NoGS.
00:16:26
Speaker
but actually into, do you fit culturally in our organization and what do you add to it? Because this is also one of the challenges that companies, startups um very often do is that they hire only on cultural fit. And then they create this box of like-minded people, which actually stops innovation. Yeah. It becomes a long-term problem. Short-term, you're faster with with that approach because it's easy.
00:16:51
Speaker
Yeah, because everybody thinks in the same direction. They agree with each other. So yeah, let's go. We're fast. But in the long term, it's actually really bad. And then second thing, what's what's what's next? What do you do next? So we have the cultural values, we have our scorecards, and then we need to have a process. So this is what I've seen a lot. and Coffee chats are being seen as a proper interview.
00:17:17
Speaker
um We're not going to interview this person actually at all because they worked with the CTO, so we we believe it. It's going to be fine. um Establishing one process across the whole company. So we're not going to mix around, maybe here add another person to the process and so on. One process, let's say four or five stages, and every single person that is involved into interviewing in that process,
00:17:43
Speaker
is briefed, knows what we're looking for, asking maybe even the same questions, but really making sure that we evaluate all the candidates in the same way so we can make an informed decision. And filling in the scorecards is going to help us.
00:17:58
Speaker
make that a long decision. With communication, right? if um that that You know what's what's going on, what's happening, and that also, I think, after an interview, you need
Why is a structured recruitment process necessary?
00:18:08
Speaker
to process the information and structure it in a certain way. Sometimes I write scorecards or I see screenshots in our team and when we we just to do some um Let's say fun stuff sending around and what what some people send in scorecards is really funny and ah everybody thinks, like okay, how can you evaluate based on that? And of course, um maybe the hiring managers, they don't even think like that, but they are.
00:18:35
Speaker
They're feeling it um hard or drowning to formulate what they think, what their judgment is. And how can you then make sure to ensure a high quality standard at scale, right? It's not possible. And I think this is just what companies and people involved in hiring needs need to understand. um And I'm also a fan of making it as admin light as possible, but there needs to be a minimum level of commitment of cohesiveness um that you can iterate on that and can get the best learnings out of it and and really implement them back into the the process and back into the decision making. And I think that's a really smart approach, what you said there. And I think also you don't need to be right 100%. You don't need to be very um extreme in following that process, but there needs to be a space and and I would say 60 to 80% should adjust to that.
Why do founders overlook recruitment systems?
00:19:29
Speaker
engine And I would say the overall understanding about why this process or why a certain process and the basic fundamentals are necessary. like There is certain briefing, there's a certain expectation to the role. um There is a certain cohesiveness and alignment in the process. There is a certain training on what everybody is doing and everybody ah as also understands why and what others are doing, and then um defining on how to make decisions and how to communicate your decisions, right? This is really, then you're maybe ah already top 1% in terms of hiring at that stage.
00:20:04
Speaker
absolutely If you do that, and it's simple, you you can set it up in a few weeks. 100%. And I think that the reason why it's not happening is because when I speak with early stages founders, especially in the process of writing the book,
00:20:20
Speaker
um I had probably around 20 founders that were reading and then just giving me feedback. Most of them would say, um you know what, if I would see your book in in the in the store, I wouldn't buy it. And I would say like, okay, why tell me? And they're like, because first of all, I don't have time to read a book. um Second of all, it's on recruitment. Yeah, okay, I have to hire a couple of people, but you're actually asking me to implement systems.
00:20:50
Speaker
To make processes we're doing just fine the way how we are you know this is not my focus my focus is improving my product making sure that we get that finance ah in so. it's It's great that you have all of those things but i can also just maybe hire an agency if i need a person i can't find them and then pay them that money.
00:21:11
Speaker
So it was a very big wake up moment for me, especially towards the end of writing the book of realizing that. Despite of the fact that the problem is like founders don't have the tools to hire the people. And despite of the fact that I give them the tools also for free, literally, um, because I'm mostly giving the book away rather than selling it. Um, they still don't even read it or use it. Um,
00:21:39
Speaker
Although they're saying I do realize that people are the most important thing in my organization.
Balancing recruitment with product development
00:21:44
Speaker
It's going to either help me or or break me if I don't hire the right people. Yeah, I understand. And I think it's just really at that stage when you're getting a company. um I also understand right that you really need to prioritize and um how do you then make sure that you um can help the communities and um the startup ecosystem to implement certain processes in a certain way and certain ways of doing it, because I think but you what you write there, like setting up the infrastructure, um it's really important, right? But also what is the infrastructure, defining your value proposition. This can be similar to an investor pitch, how you pitch the company to candidates, right? um For example, yeah.
What tools aid recruitment for startups?
00:22:27
Speaker
What do you think should be
00:22:30
Speaker
done as a basic setup to start a package. Yeah, definitely an ATS because it's just like you cannot be a fisherman without ah your tools, right? So you do need an ATS and especially if you want to be GDPR compliant and everything that's ah absolute must have. What would you recommend most as an ATS?
00:22:50
Speaker
um So especially for startups, I would say Recruity, that has been my go-to ATS for for startups for quite some years. As every software, it's not perfect, but it's so easy to implement. And if you have zero idea about how to do it, it's super intuitive.
00:23:10
Speaker
um And I'm also mentioning, I literally have a step-by-step implementation in the book as well. So ATS, a career page. How are you going to hire people if they don't ah if they can't read your job? This can also come through the ATS, right? Exactly. So that's the nice thing about trick or treat because they have a drag and drop career base, so you're not even having to pay extra for an engineer to build one for you.
00:23:37
Speaker
um And then yeah the question is,
How do ATS and scorecards facilitate recruitment?
00:23:40
Speaker
are you going to source? Do you need LinkedIn? A lot changed in LinkedIn in the past year, so it's much more restricted and limited. We cannot hack it as much as we could back in the days ah without paying for it. um But yeah, I would say that's a useful thing.
00:23:57
Speaker
In case you have any feedback or anything you want to share with me, please send me an email on thomas at peoplewise.com or hit me up on LinkedIn. And in case you really enjoyed the show, please subscribe. I would really appreciate it. And then there are a whole bunch of other tools that you might want to use to save time, like Metaview, for example, to record things during interviews. So I would say this, and and obviously the process, the recruitment process in your scorecards, but this is, I do see that as part of ah your ATS because you cannot set up your ATS if you don't have a process. and Yeah. And your scorecards are also a vital part of it. And um what is then in your role when you work
What services does Teddy offer to startups?
00:24:41
Speaker
with founders? What do you do? Do you also work for them or do you just act as a sparing partner or do you also hire um candidates? Do you fill roles? What do you do?
00:24:52
Speaker
It really depends of of the client. i'm Most of the times in the past, I would have been hired to take them out of the fire, so literally hire a couple of people, and then I would always end up fixing actually the whole infrastructure and also coaching the founders.
00:25:12
Speaker
Nowadays, i am I would say I have three different types of services. So arm ah I'm coaching early stages founders. I'm doing this pro bono. And it's very much focused on on sustainability. So there is an organization called ah Tech 2 Impact. And they are helping um startups across the globe that are very much focused on sustain sustainability.
00:25:37
Speaker
I'm helping founders in there to actually make steps into into their ah people practices, not only recruitment, but but also in general people and culture. um I work with startups to help them really set up their recruitment infrastructure. So again, the ATS, the process and stuff like that. And I also do sometimes hands-on recruitment if it's a cool startup that I really believe in and I have some free time.
00:26:05
Speaker
I do still like to be hands-on. And what what what do you enjoy most? What type of challenges? Oh, i'm so I like when there is a mix of challenges. So if I don't like to ah have, for example, a one contract, a full-time contract where for six months I'm going to source and recruit only because this is not giving me the spark. I like to have a complex situation where we need to get our stakeholders to the next level, maybe a fixed parts of the infrastructure, um hire a couple of key players.
00:26:41
Speaker
And so on. Cool.
Teddy's work with international clients
00:26:46
Speaker
And do you also do this remotely or are you going on site to clients and where is your customer base? Is it more Amsterdam or Europe or where are you mostly contributing? Yeah, really. Yeah. So I had last year, I had a client in Abu Dhabi. That was too cool.
00:27:04
Speaker
um with with some ah remote offices around the world. i'm I've worked half an year for a client in Chile where I was flying in every Monday morning and spending two, three days in Zurich. I had a client in Berlin ah for half an year where I was flying back and forth there as well. and I used to have a client in Brazil, so I've been all over the place and it's amazing to really see how different cultures work and and um how you have to handle stakeholders, especially from different companies. How is it to work in Switzerland?
00:27:39
Speaker
It was such an incredible eye-opener about i'm the the culture um there of how people communicate and, you know, like Dutch people are well known for being direct, right? I'm Eastern European, so if Dutch people are direct, Eastern Europeans are 10 times director. um And then ending up in Switzerland, where people are,
00:28:06
Speaker
Yeah, you know, neutral and and extremely polite and then they wouldn't give you any feedback and they would just agree with you while they're not agreeing. It was very challenging for me in the but the first one or two months to adapt, to actually understand what is the right way to bring things on the table.
00:28:28
Speaker
um You know i do pride myself this is probably one of the reasons why a lot of companies hire me is because i'm you know what you see is what you get i'm a powerhouse. I come in i see what the problems are i fix them and i go away and um because of the limited time it's not always very elegant. yeah If i have more time i will do it more elegant ah but.
00:28:52
Speaker
In switzerland i had to be in very limited time extremely elegant with really the white gloves on and um yeah i love that so much because i haven't been that challenged for a very long time. I can imagine i can imagine.
Teddy's freelancing journey and closing remarks
00:29:09
Speaker
and Why did you start being a freelancer and writing.
00:29:14
Speaker
the book So i'm ah to to give you a little bit more of ah the the insight, and I grew up in a very regular, um I would say mid-layer family. My parents worked for their whole lives at the same company, and no growth ambitions or anything. And we didn't have any entrepreneurs as well in in in the um inner circle of my of my family. so
00:29:45
Speaker
It's never been my idea to be ah entrepreneur entrepreneurial in the sense of ah ah opening my own company or doing freelance jobs. um I've always said I'm very happy to do for for ah to to work for for um Both. And then I've worked for a couple of years and um at some point I felt I kind of seen it all, which is very funny if you have like three years of experience and you suddenly think you've seen it all in recruitment. But okay, I was young. I yeah had a little bit less self-reflection than I have nowadays.
00:30:25
Speaker
um I started applying for jobs because I felt like I've done what needed to be done in my previous job. And I would get rejected from most of the startups because they felt I'm over-qualified. And at the scale-ups where I would apply for more of a team lead position, they felt like I didn't have enough experience on paper for that.
00:30:47
Speaker
So I was in the middle. I couldn't find a job just because I was either overqualified or underqualified. um And at that time, the the market was absolutely fantastic for freelancers. I had a lot of friends who were freelancing. And I said, listen, like with your experience and the way how you work, you can bring so much to a company. Just start freelancing. And the moment I had a thought about it and I told a couple of people within one week I had a project,
00:31:14
Speaker
So it just went so fast. I didn't have time to think about it. And it went on for seven years so far. so You enjoyed it? I love it. I love it. it's um i love What is the biggest benefit benefit of being a freelancer in recruitment?
00:31:34
Speaker
the learning curve. I think that for me coming into new companies and ah having to very quickly get up and running and figuring out what the challenges are and how can I solve them because despite of the fact that we always have similar challenges in recruitment, no size fits all, that's something that pushes you to to be quick on your feet to quickly learn and and also develop yourself in a way how you can be even more efficient in your problem solving. Certainly agree. Teddy, we are coming to the end. and Thank you so much. um Unicorns don't exist by the book. Look at it. Teddy Timitrova, thank you for having um time to do this with me and it was great meeting you. Thank you for the invite and it was great chatting with you again.