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Episode 711 - Raw Thursday
1.1k Plays10 days ago
We're on the road to 100 as we go back to non-linestepper submissions and race to the finish of the Thursday Night Raw list!
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Transcript
Podcast Introduction and Zencastr Plug
00:00:00
Speaker
This show is recorded using Zencaster. If you are a podcaster, or you want to be a podcaster, and you want to be able to record remotely, you can do so using Zencaster. They also have hosting options. And you can let them know that we sent you. Follow the link in our show notes, or in the episode description, and sign up for an account on Zencaster now to start recording your own podcast.
Hosts Introduction
00:00:53
Speaker
and welcome to War Rocket Ajax. This is the Internet's Most Explosive Comic Book and Pop Culture Podcast, and we are your hosts. My name is Chris Simms. With me, as always, is Matt Wilson. And Matt, if I was a video game, I think it's pretty obvious that I would be in Metroidvania. Yes. I'm not quite sure what the plot would be, but I think i think it would be the only Metroidvania where you have, like, a realistic jump.
00:01:25
Speaker
So not very high. Not very high. i'm not I'm not vertically oriented. I mean, even the human beings who can jump really high can't jump anything close to what video game characters jump like. Imagine if if you could double jump in real life. That would be amazing. It would be it would get me out of some scrapes. I'd tell you what.
Game Comparisons: Dracula's Castle and Souls-like
00:01:49
Speaker
here's Here's what I feel like I would be if I was a video game.
00:01:54
Speaker
is I would be, obviously, in Dracula's castle. Sure. In Akumujo, Dracula, Castlevania. I would be looking around for ah my, ah specifically, eight action figures I have on my shelf right next to me. Mm-hmm. Because these are the ones that I want to see every day. And when I found each one, it would give me a a power. that that That would be my the the progression of the Metroidvania. Well, Chris, I think it is appropriate to call you a Metroidvania because the longer I know you, the more I discover and unlock, the more secrets I find and am delighted by. Well, good. Good. I'm glad. ah Matt, what kind of video game would you be? I would obviously be a Souls-like because I'm yeah not toious um notoriously difficult. Hang on, Matt. Hang on.
00:02:53
Speaker
I like you. See, but you had to really work on it. ti to i feel like Very easy to like. no ah See, okay. There's a high difficulty curve, right? High initial difficulty curve. But once you overcome that, it's very satisfying and enjoyable.
00:03:21
Speaker
but i But I'm notoriously difficult, idiosyncratic, I don't tell my story very directly.
00:03:32
Speaker
ah And I have a dodge roll. You know, it's, I hate to say it, all that's fair. but In this world where where it's like the movie Cars, but instead of being Cars, we're video games. yeah I could be like a Matt Wilson speed runner. Right, right. Because I pretty instantly, we but have gotten along pretty well famously for for years now. For a long time, yeah. Pretty much ever since we were introduced. I mean, it took a while for um to us to to actually become friends beyond just being kind of colleagues, but
00:04:14
Speaker
It didn't take that long. yeah like I'm actually much easier to become friends with now than I used to be, but I still think I am difficult to approach, and I don't even really know why. I also have an upside down version of me hanging directly above my head.
Thursday Night Raw Preview
00:04:32
Speaker
We have a really fun show for everybody this week.
00:04:37
Speaker
Did we do Thursday Night Raw just two weeks ago? Yes, we did. Are we doing it again now? Yes, because we are on the quest to 100. Raw moments. We're getting through them. I also got two messages from line steppers that, hey, you've missed my entry. So we're going to do the two remaining line stepper entries first.
00:05:05
Speaker
and then move on to nine non-linestepper entries from two years ago. So okay get ready for that. Chris, because this is a Thursday Night Raw episode, I have my most visited Wikipedia page open. I know you do. It's called list of w WWE Raw special episodes. Now I think i'll have to I'll have to go back and check and make sure, but I think we've done a Valentine's themed Raw already. I would be quite surprised if we hadn't. So instead, I'm going for two episodes of Raw that occurred in 2006 and 2007, both in mid-February. Okay. These are called Raw Thursday.
00:06:02
Speaker
i I'm almost certain we've used that one before because I know I've mentioned Thursday, Raw Thursday. Okay, we've talked about Thursday, or Raw Thursday. This is just Raw Thursday.
00:06:14
Speaker
I mean, which i wouldn it's us every Thursday, so Raw Thursday. That's true, but I i do not think... that we've had an episode called Raw Thursday before this. So ah that is what I'm going with. i'm I'm going to check and make sure, but ah I believe we haven't. So this is Raw Thursday. It also just feels, we've had Thursday Raw Thursday, but not Raw Thursday. um And it it it also just feels like we're coming full circle because we are approaching
00:06:47
Speaker
If this isn't the last episode of Thursday Night Raw, we are definitely approaching it. So ah I just thought it was appropriate. The the end is near. That's true. We have currently 91 entries on the Thursday Night Raw list. When we get to 100, we are going to stop. We're done. We're done. The list is complete. It's over. No moral.
00:07:16
Speaker
That's right, no moral. So, we'll get to that soon, but first, Chris, we have some business to
Patreon Support and Milestones
00:07:22
Speaker
take care of. The first order of business is thanking our newest supporters over on Patreon. That's right, Matt. These are all the people who, in times past, they'd have to go all the way down to 7-Eleven gimmick street. And I think it's pretty obvious what's there. I have no idea what's there, Chris. What would be there? of The Wawa. Oh, of course it's the Wawa. That's where the Wawa is. Yeah.
00:07:45
Speaker
<unk>mo street wawa It's actually the southern most Wawa. It's not a sheets. It's not. It's not a sheets. We're getting sheets here in Asheville. And did you not have sheets? There's sheets all over North Carolina. There's but not here. Not in Western North Carolina until right now. ah There's there's a sheets being built as we speak very close to my house, which is dangerous, but I'm not going to go there as much as I thought I would because the tagline for Sheets is truly and incomprehensibly baffling. Oh, okay. I mean, this is a special mini podcast within the Patreon segment, but I gotta know. It's Why the Sheets Not.
00:08:41
Speaker
That is baffling. That's challenging. Why the shit knot is not a thing, people say. No. Sheets doesn't sound like anything else. Yeah. Why the sheets knot? Why the sheets knot? Boy, it it was, it was 4.45 on a Friday, huh? ah Is this, is this Gen Z humor?
00:09:12
Speaker
That's what I think every time I hear it.
00:09:18
Speaker
Oh, we do. We do get older. Yes. Well, Matt, you will avoid the sheets, but i like I'll be there. I'll be there often. You know what you can, you know, you can do down at the Wawa is get a check or a money order and send it directly to me or Matt Wilson. But you don't have to do that if you want to support the show.
00:09:38
Speaker
You can do something much easier, which is going to Patreon dot.com slash War Rocket Ajax and kicking in as little as a dollar a month to help us, first of all, keep the show going. Keep doing all the the fun stuff that we like to do here on the show. And perhaps most importantly, for me specifically, pay those gimmicks they keep sending in the mail called bills, because folks, they do keep sending them.
00:10:08
Speaker
Chris, we have a few names to read on the show this week. You'll love to hear it. Benjamin Hertzberg. Thank you, Benjamin. Michael Francis. Thank you, Michael. Grant Volker. Thank you, Grant. Patchwork. Thanks, Patch. And Adam Blackhat. Thank you, Adam. I guess I shouldn't have done like a Wolverine voice to thank Patch. Patchwork.
00:10:37
Speaker
Yeah. But I, I mean, I just said, you know, you know, you know what I did. I get it. Well, it could be an alternate universe Wolverine talking to patch. It sure could be. If you would like to be like any of those wonderful people we just thanked who are helping us out here on the show, you can go to patreon dot.com slash where rocket at Jackson kick in as little as $1 per month, as Chris said, to make sure that we keep doing this show weekly, that we do comics, catch up monthly.
00:11:07
Speaker
We have decided to read the 2022 Sword of Azrael series for February, and we will be talking about that soon. Every story ever specials. Those are made possible. Movie fighters in this next situation. All of that stuff you support by being a Patreon supporter. And as a Patreon supporter, you get every single one of those shows that I just listed off completely ad-free. Also, if we reach 420 paid patrons, we have promised that we will take an edible and do some bonus content. At the $5 level, you are at the bonus content level. There's tons of bonus content over on the Patreon. Bonus audio that we record. Outtakes that I take out of the show and put on Patreon.
00:11:56
Speaker
writing that Chris and I have done over there. There's a lot of stuff over there on Patreon that is very cool bonus content. And we will absolutely do some 420 bonus content if we reach 420 paid patrons. Right now, the number is 402. So you can absolutely get us closer to making that happen if you head over to the Patreon and become a paid patron.
00:12:24
Speaker
Matt, can I can i i tell you something? Yeah. i dot I do not indulge in God's greener often. Yeah. However, I did, in fact, have an edible over the weekend. hu And I was i was gonna ah go out to dinner with ah with a friend and I took the edible about an hour before that happened and then I played some Dragon Ball Fighters. And then my friend got here and texted me like, hey, I'm outside because I'm not gonna, you know, I'm not gonna drive, obviously. like And I stood up and went, oh, no.
00:13:11
Speaker
I'm extremely high. I'm too high. I'm too high for dinner. I was like eight like like a sitcom high.
00:13:23
Speaker
it was almost like a little bit, honestly, embarrassing to be that high. And like, again, like an episode of fucking that 70s show or something, you know, like that level of real, real goofy. ah well I had a good time, but I'm just saying, I have noted which edible that is.
00:13:53
Speaker
And folks, that could be that could be on your podcatcher of choice. Right. yeah Wouldn't you love to experience Chris in that state? I know that if 2025 keeps going the way it's going, I might actually become the Matt Wiedson of legend. i'm i'm I'm thinking about it. Buddy?
00:14:16
Speaker
to Why do you why do you think I took some this weekend? Yeah, I actually have some sodas in the fridge So I could I could drink one of those and we could do some bokeh. So You got them that weeds and sodas some of them that weeds and sodas. It's called your one. It's called blueberry haze But anyway Anyway That's bonus content. There's also line-stepping privileges there. There's physical rewards, including t-shirts. There's cool, cool stuff over on the Patreon, and you should go join if you can. If you are unable to help us monetarily, you can help us out in other ways. You can leave us a five-star review on the podcasting app that you use. That would help us out greatly. Or you can and and write something. Don't just leave five stars, but write something. ah Something nice.
00:15:07
Speaker
That helps even more. Or you could just spread the word about the show, tell your friends, talk on social media about it, let your friends and family know about a cool show that they will like and enjoy. Then maybe they can back us on the Patreon. That would that would be great too. All right, Chris. You don't gotta carry that burden alone. It's time for some checks and recs. What do you say? Let's do it.
Action Figures and Gaming Highlights
00:15:34
Speaker
Chris, what would you like to check in with this week? Matt, I used to have a job. Buddy, we've all been there. That is currently no longer the case. However, however, ah I did order some things back when I had a job and all of them have decided to arrive like now.
00:16:02
Speaker
Okay. I've gotten two oh boxes from Kickstarter's that I backed. Very exciting stuff. I have gotten a like a set of like very fun D and&D ah binders. I think I've actually recommended them on the show before, the Roll and Play Press oh ah DM binders that you can keep everything in that are very handy and very fun to have.
00:16:30
Speaker
Got a deck of many things that I kick-started. Very fun. But today the big one got here. And Matt, the sword gang has a new boy. I know who it is because you sent you sent Benito and I a photo of him tonight. I did. I believe I sent you a text that said, sword gang's got a new member. And that is that I got the the Figma ah Tears of the Kingdom link.
00:17:05
Speaker
And not only did did I get that, I got like the one that comes with all the shit. Matty, he's got so much shit. Interchangeable heads? Interchangeable faces. Okay. Interchangeable hands. He's got a master sword. He's got a Hylian shield. He's got a different shield. He's got a shield that you can pop the little middle piece out of and stick the rocket onto. He's got an ancient bow with an arrow that he can hold. He's got the little battery thing that he wears on his belt. My favorite accessory that he has is there's a little translucent green disc so that you can pop his torso off and put it on this disc like he's coming through your desk. Like he uses that little power that he's got in that game. That is great. So I am very excited. ah He is now on the shelf. I mentioned
00:18:00
Speaker
ah I mentioned the action figures that I have on the shelf next to me, and he is now in that roster. I'm curious, Matt, I would like you to guess who's up there. I got one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight of them. Don't know if we can get the picture, but that did have four of them. I know some of them. Yes. You had a Trunks. Trunks is actually not on this shelf. Trunks is over on the Dragon Ball shelf. I moved him over here for the sword gang picture.
00:18:30
Speaker
Okay. Well, you had, you saw you Jimbo, you had Miyamoto, you soggy. Yes. With his swords, of course, young Willow and Willow branch. You had guts. The dragon slayer. Yes. There was one more, there was one more person in the picture. I know. That was like, that was like, that was, that was just those four that were in the picture. Okay. So, so these are other sword people.
00:18:53
Speaker
No, these are those were the only sword people. Okay. The other people, I would say, none of them use swords. In fact, I would say, well, one of them has used a sword, but I would not say a sword is is is his is primary ah deal. Okay. But they're your faves. These are your favorite guys. These are my favorite guys. But Goku's not there because he's on the Dragon Ball shelf.
00:19:23
Speaker
um Matt, I would give that one to you. the The only Goku that is over here is the one that you got me. Okay, so there is a Goku over here. Goku the Saiyan raised on Earth. a Base form Goku, yes. I'm gonna say you don't have a Batman. No, I'm gonna say you do have a Batman. I absolutely do have a Batman. I have the Batman animated series Batman. Yeah. I was like, Batman's too obvious, but then I was like, no, he's got a Batman. Yeah, obviously.
00:19:51
Speaker
Is there an alicard? No, I don't think they make a good alicard figure, or at least I haven't seen one. If they make like a good alicard figure, let me know. I'll hit a big bad toy store right now. Okay, how about a Simon Belmont? No Simon Belmont, no Castlevania's. No Castlevania of any kind. That's a curveball, so that means no Dracula. No Dracula. I feel like Samus is more my thing.
00:20:20
Speaker
But you also love Samus. I do love Samus. There would be a Samus, but I missed out on getting the Figma Samus and it is now prohibitively expensive. I do have a Samus amiibo over on the amiibo shelf. Okay. Okay. This is hot radio for everybody, right? This is ah me guessing what's on a shelf. A lot of your manga love his recent. So I'm going to say We're covered on manga characters, probably? Are we? Are we? Now I'm going to give you one more guess before i i the big reveal happens. Okay. um I'm going to try to make this one count. See, I i had Lord of the Rings characters in the chamber. but I haven't. There is going to be a an SH Figuarts Aragorn, son of Arathorn. One to the men of Bria Strider. Aragorn the second of the House-Tailed Contar.
00:21:18
Speaker
allll Sure, sure, sure. Right. oh The wielder of Underreal. There is going to be an SHVU Arts Aragorn. I will be getting that. But it is not out yet. It's not out yet. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Joker from Persona. You nailed it. Yes. You got it, baby. You crushed that one. ah there's There's two more. The one that you would never have guessed, because I know you have not read it, is Your Forger from Spy Family.
00:21:47
Speaker
Yeah, I wouldn't have got that, yeah. And this one, I'm kind of surprised you didn't guess, because I know you love this dude. It's Stone Cold Steve Austin. Of course, of course, of course, of course. Those are good guys. Those are good guys for sure. Good guys to have. Now we need to work on figuring out what powers I would get from each of them. oh But but that's that's for another day. Matt, what have you been up to this week while I've been playing with toys?
00:22:15
Speaker
Chris, ah my check is that I started playing like a dragon infinite wealth. And hell yeah I can't recommend it yet because I barely started. I haven't left Yokohama yet, and I know that it mostly takes place in Hawaii. But I know that I am going to recommend it because I played it immediately after Final Fantasy VII Rebirth.
00:22:44
Speaker
And it was like such a huge breath of fresh air. I don't think I totally realized this when I played Final Fantasy 7 the first time. The original Final Fantasy 7. But Cloud is an asshole.
00:23:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. He's a whole asshole. Yeah, he's kind of a dick. There's a bit in Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth where Aerith gives a heartfelt speech about her personal history and the history of her people and how she's the last one of them and she feels all this responsibility for the Earth being the last of her race. And Cloud, it immediately cuts to Cloud and he goes, are you finished yet?
00:23:35
Speaker
Fuck that guy, man. Yeah, man. he's He's a little bit of a... He's challenging. That game should have ended with all of Cloud's quote-unquote friends being like, bye, bud. Anyway, going from that to Like a Dragon Infinite Wealth with the best dude, Ichiban Kasuga.
00:24:01
Speaker
It's such a relief and such a breath of fresh air. Also, within the first hour of that game, Ichiban ruins two of his own suits. It's unbelievably great.
00:24:16
Speaker
Matt, I gotta say, I love how much you love Ichiban. I love Ichiban Kasuga. That dude is my dude. He's a good dude. he look He's a good dude. That game starts with, okay, it doesn't make a lot of sense because the end of by the end of the original Like a Dragon, my version of Ichiban was so rich because he owned many businesses that made billions of yen. Yeah, and he he stars in their little commercial.
00:24:48
Speaker
Yeah. Where he like throws a dove into the sky or whatever. Yeah. And then at the start of Infinite Wealth, he's working at Hello Work, which is basically like, you know, the the the place where you go to get a job. And like, trying to help ex-Yakuza get jobs. But he's like, ah hard hard luck. And it's like, the Ichiban I had,
00:25:16
Speaker
was a millionaire. Yeah, well, full loaded. Yeah. So that makes a little, not so much sense, but I love it anyway. Uh, so that's what I've been up to. I've been playing, I started playing like a dragon infinite wealth and I'm so far it is a complete blast. Uh, Chris, time for
Game Recommendations: Griftlands and Arkham Horror
00:25:34
Speaker
some recommendations. What do you have to recommend? ah Well, I have not yet played, uh, infinite wealth. Uh, I'm looking forward to it, but I am going to make, uh, similarly to you, I'm going to make a,
00:25:46
Speaker
what I'd like to call a soft wreck. Okay. Because this is also something that I have not played too much of, because I just got it. But it is intriguing. And what I have played is interesting. Now, I have been playing a lot of ah ah Slay the Spire.
00:26:09
Speaker
over my, uh, fun employment because, you know, what else am I going to do? And that's great. I'm kind of at a point in that game where I think I might've hit the ceiling. I don't know how much more progression there is for me specifically. Uh, but I do like the mechanics of it. I like a roguelike deck builder. So I've been looking for one and sure enough, one popped up in, uh, this month's humble choice that is called grift lands.
00:26:36
Speaker
ah Which is a much more like character driven RPG sci-fi type of thing oh The interesting thing about it and a thing that I think might be intriguing for you Matt is that This is a game where you have two decks that you build as you move through the world One of them is for battles ah much like in your ah Slay the Spire or similar games. One of them is for conversations. You have, like,
00:27:16
Speaker
negotiations that you do. They function at least as far as I can tell, pretty much identically, but there is, like, there are slightly different mechanics in that you can like attack different arguments. I find that very interesting, that you have to choose whether you want to focus on like adding a cool new attack to what you can do, or adding a cool new rhetorical device to what you can do. I mean, that's sort of what you can do in Fallout and Elder Scrolls. Yeah, but this is a, like it's a it's a full like deck builder.
00:28:00
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So you play out like conversations as though they were combat, which I find very interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. Yeah, ah it is on humble choice. ah So it's one of the games that's included with that this month. So it is 13 bucks and you get seven other games if you want them. but If you want to check it out or if you already have it, it's ah probably worth the download to check it out. I really like the art style and so far I do really like the writing. ah It's a sci-fi game ah where you are a ah laborer who was essentially sold into indentured servitude.
00:28:41
Speaker
and you're coming back for revenge as a bounty hunter. And that's a that always works. The first thing that happens is you get a dog. Great. A space dog. Really enjoyable so far. I look forward to playing more of it. If it goes bad on me, I will let you know. But for now, consider it a soft wreck. All right. Matt, what is your recommendation? If not, like a dragon, infinite wealth. I'm waiting until I know for sure Uh, that I want to recommend like a dragon infinite wealth. So my recommendation, I'm going to recommend a board game this time. And it is, it is a classic.
00:29:26
Speaker
But I had not actually like sat down and played it until recently. A little thing called Monopoly. Uh-huh. Heard of it much? ah No, I had not actually sat down and played it until recently, and it was such an enjoyable experience to play it with some some friends that I ended up getting it as a Christmas present. And I have tinkered around with it a few other times because it is a game that you can play as a single player.
00:29:54
Speaker
Interesting. um It's Arkham Horror. Oh yeah, that game's great. Yeah, um you can play Arkham Horror as a single player. It is more fun to play as a group with several different players. But it is, I think it is one of the first games that I know of that did that does that thing where you aren't exactly on a timer.
00:30:20
Speaker
But the more you play it, you the closer you get to a point of no return happening where the game changes. Yes. And it is also one of the early games where you play different scenarios. And depending on that scenario, your goal in the game is different. The monster you fight in the game is different.
00:30:44
Speaker
the way that you defeat that monster is different and on and on and on. um But it's Lovecraftian horror, which I am a fan of, even though I can't say I'm a fan of Lovecraft, the the guy, but the the the the type of horror is great. As ah as ah a lover of Bloodborne, it's hard for me to ah Say any different but it is it is that type of horror in a game You're playing like the characters in the game are great There's one who's a reporter which the first time I played obviously I was like I'm the reporter and then he turned out to be like one of the most complicated characters in the game ah ah But um there's like a reporter and a detective and um lots of other characters with lots of other jobs and
00:31:38
Speaker
ah It's ah the start of the game is a lot of just like going around and collecting stuff or or trying your best to collect stuff and again then as the game progresses more monsters show up and then a boss arrives and you have to Essentially be prepared to fight that boss and a lot of times you're gonna lose but it is an absolute hoot to play and I know I am coming to it very late, but ah now that I've played it a few times if you have never actually played Arkham horror and
00:32:13
Speaker
um It is absolutely worth checking out and playing. And again, you can play it as a single player, which is pretty cool, I feel like. It's much like that game you got me, that is you just play as a single player, a final girl. um It plays very similarly to Arkham Horror, Final Girls. Do you only play Final Girls as a single player? Only as a single player, yeah. Really? I did not know that when I got it for you.
00:32:39
Speaker
Yeah, it's i I played it quite a few times. It's it's it's ah it's fun too. um And again, it plays somewhat similarly to Arkham Horror, but ah both fun. Arkham Horror is a game that I played.
00:32:57
Speaker
and like I played a lot of it and never won, but I never felt like it was ruthlessly unfair. That it was cheating you. Yeah. Yeah. Like I like coming close to victory in that game felt good. Cause it was always like it came down to the wire and they just got me. I played it with Marlene and two other friends, uh, who we are collectively the improv troop shape spiral. And when we played, we got to the final boss and the final boss killed us, yeah which it, you know, that I can accept that I could, I could live with that.
00:33:32
Speaker
Those are checks and recs, Chris, which means it's time to talk about some comics. Let's do it.
Comic Reviews: Superman, Batman, and Avengers
00:33:39
Speaker
The textures choice winner for this week is technically absolute Superman number four, although it's really absolute Superman number three, because the text that you sent Chris was, and I will read it verbatim.
00:33:55
Speaker
If Absolute Crypto doesn't survive, I'm going to take out a loan by the IP of Comics Alliance and bring it back just to blast that book with a scathing review that will poison comics discourse for the years to come. Yes, and I stand by that. Yes.
00:34:12
Speaker
Now, Absolute Crypto does not appear in issue four, but he's all over issue three. Yeah, I kind of love that the structure of this book is even numbers are about Lois odd numbers are about Superman. Yeah, that's really good. That's a really good way to do it. Honestly, and so getting like all of the Superman stuff growing up on Krypton and and finding out that the you know, the Jor-el and Laura were getting their arc ready to get off the planet.
00:34:49
Speaker
in the last issue was great. And then this issue being all about ah Lois trying to track down Superman and meeting ah someone who I knew instantly was one James Bartholomew Olsen. Just by the hair? Just by the hair. Just by the hair. Yeah. The Jimmy Olsen of this book is a member of the Omega Men, which is like a resistance force that's trying to fight the Lazarus Corporation. Yeah, it's a terrorist cell.
00:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, they're essentially a terrorist, so yeah. There's also ah the leader of the Omega Men, Omega Prime, or Primus, as she prefers to be called. We don't know who she is yet. And I'm very curious to know. Let's Claypool. Maybe. um Also, we learned which peacemaker is Peacemaker, Christopher Smith, in this issue. ah Which is great.
00:35:49
Speaker
And there's a phone conversation between Lois and her dad that gives a little, a lot of insight as to why this version of Lois is the way that she is and how she's finally starting to break out of it. Yeah. Uh, I, I find this version of Lois to be very interesting in a way that I was a little worried about. Yeah. Uh, and I also like,
00:36:15
Speaker
I think the dynamic is really interesting ah with with her and Clark and the way that they're both like, I mean, look, you know this, Matt. It's it's there to appeal to to you and me. I like how they much they talk about writing.
00:36:35
Speaker
I love it. Yeah. Uh, I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's clearly an interest of Jason Aaron's that he's putting it in the book. And also Rafa Sandoval's art just remains. It's absolutely stunning. Yeah. It's like, it's so cheesy that the Superman's cape is this like nanomachines, but I, I fucking love it. Yeah. That is something that like, I was thinking about that with the, uh, the last issue because you see crypto.
00:37:03
Speaker
that has the little man of machine cape and how in a different art style under a different artist, that would be a really tricky visual to pull off. Like to make it look like it does and make it look cool and not just make it look like, you know, you had spilled red ink on the page, but I think it's it's it's very, very cool the way that it it is depicted in this book. And I i don't know if that's the the send of all two colors as well. You know, I don't know. I'll i'll i'll look into credits, but there's one shot of Superman landing and he's like landing through a mist of the red nanobots. And so it's like a donut of nanobots that he's going through and he's going through the hole. It's ah Ulysses Areola.
00:37:59
Speaker
Okay, it does the colors and it's they're fantastic and there's like a sound effect boom going down Through his trajectory coming down through the nanobots and it looks cool as hell. It's so good. Yes Very much very very very good. Very very good Highly enjoyable stuff. I'm really enjoying it. It continues to be good. But if absolute crypto doesn't make it to earth then uh Boy, if you thought you thought we were harsh on on um Jeff Jones and Tom King, Jason Aaron, did you will see the depths of my haterness. ah Next up, Chris, we're gonna talk about, yeah, Batman 157. This is Chip's last issue on the book, because next month, Hush 2 begins.
00:38:56
Speaker
Twush. Twush. This is such a great story to go out on, though. Yeah, man. I i love the reveal. Surely this has not been in the book yet, but I love the reveal that Commander Star is actually the Keiji Beast. I didn't know until this issue that he was Keiji Beast. And there's a bit where Batman's like, hey, you hit the accent and everything.
00:39:25
Speaker
Yeah, like, I love it when I read something by someone who we know. Because we, you know, we've had plenty of conversations with Chip. Like, we've we've talked to Chip, hung out with Chip. I love knowing that he thinks that Commander Star being the KG Beast is funny. Yeah. Because you know that he thinks that's hilarious. And he's right.
00:39:54
Speaker
Yeah. It's, it's very, very good. It does feel like all the various things that chip has set up throughout his run get dealt with real quick. Yeah. Like, Oh, Bruce Wayne maybe had a brother. No, it wasn't really his brother. We did a DNA test.
00:40:23
Speaker
Oh, the Riddler and Jervis tech. The Med Hatter, yeah. um like you know They didn't exactly get away with it, but they kind of got away with it. I do love the bit at the end where Batman and Gordon are talking. You could tell the parts that Chip really wanted to like focus and take his time on, because that Gordon and Batman conversation at the end of the book is about five pages.
00:40:53
Speaker
to close the book out on. yeah And Gordon is still struggling with having pulled the trigger on the mayor, even though he was being mind controlled. Yeah. And he's he's trying to convince Batman that he did it and that it wasn't the mind control, which is I thought was an interesting thing. And Batman's like, no, no, no, and no, the mind control lingers. It was the mind control. Yeah.
00:41:21
Speaker
And the last thing that Batman says is, both of us are human Jim, flawed. There's no way around that. All we can try to do is to be good men. And and man, what a note to end on. I love that so, so much. Yeah, man. it Everything does get tied up in a nice little bow.
00:41:42
Speaker
in this. yeah um I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. ah I do appreciate that there's a bit in that conversation where Gordon's like, yeah, man, I feel like I start over all the time. I guess maybe I'm going to be the fucking commissioner again. But it's really like, yeah, you kind of got to leave Batman the way you found him.
00:42:07
Speaker
Well, and also, you know, you really, really got to clear the decks for Hush too. Yeah. So, whatever, but double Hush. I thought, I think Chip's run is outstanding. It has been outstanding throughout. I've loved it. Yeah. i Since, like, since Failsafe and since Batman going down into his basement to, to go to his secret back cave where he keeps the Batman of Zurnar.
00:42:37
Speaker
Like, that's just designed for me, you know? Yeah. It does not get more appealing to me than that. And I think this run has been absolutely stellar. Can't wait to see what else Hush is gonna be up to. Gonna learn all about Hush. We're gonna read that, aren't we? Yeah, we're gonna read that. Yeah, that... Unfortunately, yes. I have a sickness within me.
00:43:05
Speaker
ah Finally, I haven't read this issue yet, but Chris, you wanted to talk a little bit about Avengers number 23 by Jed McKay and Fareed Karami. Matt, you and I, we're all in on Jed McKay. And that feels like it's been derailed by that X-Men run, which I think you, like, just has not clicked with us. Unfortunately, it hasn't, yeah.
00:43:34
Speaker
And every time something like that happens, and every time I open the Every Story Ever list, and I see Mr. Miracle there at like, number three, I'm like, was I wrong? Was I wrong about this like I was wrong about Tom King, maybe? Because I still think Mr. Miracle's really, really good. But like, there is a moment where I'm like, oh no, is is is the X-Men book just how it is now. And then you get this Avengers run where Jim McKay is like, hey, what if I just did another two issues of Black Cat?
00:44:15
Speaker
ah
00:44:17
Speaker
And you get the Avengers doing a heist on the Grandmaster's interdimensional space casino while Kang and the Black Cat and the Black Cat's dad, the Black Cat are also doing a heist.
00:44:33
Speaker
in the Greer and Masters space casino. It's a hoot, man. There's a really fun bit in the the first part of it, which is ah last month's issue, number 22, where ah they're planning out their heist and so we see like the the Ocean's Eleven type deal where they're doing the thing and then it cuts back to them discussing it. And the whole thing is that like Scarlet Witch and Storm are going to create a distraction by getting into a ah fight in the middle of the casino, but it's the Scarlet Witch and Storm. So there's gonna be a, like them getting into a fight is a much bigger deal than anyone else. And it's fun. These two issues have been extremely fun.
00:45:27
Speaker
they They don't actually read like just two more issues of Black Cat. you know like The focus is on the Avengers. Black Cat is in it, and Black Cat is a a crucial part of the story, but it's very much like a featured role, and the focus is still on the characters that this book actually is about. But ah it it gives it a little bit of that old magic, and I liked it an awful lot, which is nice, because I like Jim McKay comics.
00:45:57
Speaker
Yeah, i I do think Jed McKay, the work of his I tend to like more is on single character books rather than team books. So if he can make his team books more like his single character books, all the better. Yeah, agreed. All right, Chris, those are our comics reviews for the week. So let's start getting into some raw submissions. Let's do it. All right, Chris, we have two remaining line stepper submissions. If you are a line stepper who submitted a Thursday night raw moment that we have not done on the show, contact me as soon as possible because there's not much more opportunity. There's not going to be much more opportunity.
00:46:56
Speaker
Uh, to get your submission read out on the show. So if somehow we missed your submission, please get in touch. But as far as I know, these are the last two remaining line step or submission. The first one comes from a crawling dead man who says, I'm unsure if this is the type of raw you're looking for, but this is raw as hell to me. I submit for your consideration in the scene in lone wolf and cub volume one.
00:47:24
Speaker
in which Ogami Ito saves his son gives his son Daigoro a choice between a ball and a sword. No, that shit is raw. Yeah. That shit actually is extremely raw.
00:47:39
Speaker
ah That owns, actually. Yeah. Hey, Matt, listen. when i was When I was just a baby, ah hu my father was the Shogun's executioner.
00:47:54
Speaker
Oh, i the Shogun's decapitator. Everyone was afraid of him, even the Shogun. Yeah. <unk> As I understand it, the Shogun wouldn't leave his castle because he was afraid. Yeah, man. Lone Wolf and Cub. I remember, we haven't talked about Lone Wolf and Cub, I think, since we ranked it on the Every Story Ever list, and that was like real early on.
00:48:16
Speaker
And that was only the first volume, which has one objectionable thing in it, which made us rank it lower. If we got more Lone Wolfen Cub, we'd rank it higher. Yeah. Because there's some stuff in Lone Wolfen Cub that's not great. There's a lot of stuff in Lone Wolfen Cub that fucking owns. And Ogami Ito putting his baby down and telling him that ah he can choose the ball or choose the sword.
00:48:45
Speaker
And if he chooses the the ball, he can go to join his mother in death. That's raw as hell. That dude is like, I'm about to go kill a million guys.
00:48:58
Speaker
So you're going to need like, if like, I will, I will murder my infant son. If I don't think you're up for this. So yeah, he, he puts the ball on the ground and he,
00:49:17
Speaker
stabs the sword through the floor of the room. And he says, choose Daigoro. And so that the kid starts crawling. And at first he kind of crawling toward the ball. And then he looks over toward the sword, and he starts crawling toward the sword and he reaches out toward the sword. yeah And and again, infant. Yeah, like full baby.
00:49:43
Speaker
Yes, and Ogabi Ito says, you would have been happier at your dead mother's side, my poor child. Remember, Daigoro, this is our destiny. Yeah, man. He gonna put a bunch of shit in that baby cart.
00:50:02
Speaker
It's raw. Like, again, Volume 1 of Lone Wolf and Cub got put somewhat low on the Every Story Ever list because of one objectionable scene.
00:50:13
Speaker
But there's good shit in there, including this. Yeah, man. Listen. here's Here's the thing. I think Matt and I have been very clear that we do not endorse people murdering their boys. so ah Especially not in particular ways. Yeah. I would say I would say cutting in half with a katana probably almost as bad as eating. It's it's up there. ah I mean, I don't think there is a good way to do it. No, there's certainly not a good way to do it. Yeah. But that would be bad. So it's not like it's not like I'm supportive of Ogami Ito being like, look,
00:51:14
Speaker
I might have to cut my baby in half with a katana. But what do you think he's going to do to these other dudes? If he's going to do that, if he's like, hey, might have to cut my baby in half, what is he going to do to these dudes that he's mad at? Great point. Great point. That's raw as hell.
00:51:41
Speaker
oh little wovin cold man Alright, where does it land? Where does it land on the Thursday Night Raw list? I mean, it's pretty... pretty fucking raw, dude. Is it more raw than Gohan going Super Saiyan 2?
00:52:04
Speaker
Yeah! I think so! I think it's more... I think it's more raw than Goku punching a hole through Demon King Piccolo. Alright.
00:52:16
Speaker
I don't know if it's... Well, it's probably more raw than Trunk's whipping Freeza's ass in front of Freeza's own dad. That shit's pretty good though. he's He's in the sword gang. I don't... Okay. I think it maybe goes above Hellboy snapping off his horns and saying kill me we can. This is raw and ice cold. It's true. It's raw and ice cold at the same time.
00:52:45
Speaker
This is raw in a way that's hard to explain because nothing, ah no no action, no nobody gets their ass kicked in this scene, right right? It's the potential of what might happen. Yeah, it's the it's the, if this dude is willing to do this, what do you think he's gonna do when he catches those dudes?
00:53:13
Speaker
that that Betrayed him and killed his wife. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's and what's all about look if If even this baby is like give me a sword That's the thing we talk a lot about Ogami Ito in that scene We don't talk a lot about digoro in that scene how digoro is like actually I'll take the sword Yeah, cuz again, it it looks for a minute like he's gonna go toward the ball and then he looks over at the sword and He's like nah, nah, I need that sword Yeah, um, I I don't My suggestion is that this is the new number 15. Let's have a look-see at the list here. 15 would put it... it's That puts it below Cyclops saying, does it need doing, then it will be done. I think it might even go higher. Okay. I think it might go right under Magneto putting the red skull in a fucking hole. Above Batman shooting Darkseid with a God Bullet?
00:54:12
Speaker
Yeah, man. Wow. It's fucking raw, dude. I would not put it that high, but that sure. Okay. I mean, we we can. I, I, how about at the new number 14 above cycle ups? Okay. Okay. Yeah. That's that works for me. That puts it below storm stabbing Kalisto in a knife fight, which is raw as fuck. Yeah. Look, a lot of the shit on this at the top of the list is raw. Fuck.
00:54:43
Speaker
that again, that moment is Storm saying, you forgot who the fuck I am. Yes. And I love that so much. I love that so much. Yeah. Listen, all I'm saying is there's not like an album that opens with anybody talking about, uh, Cyclops saying that he's going to go on a suicide mission to destroy mother mold. Should there be? Absolutely. Yeah.
00:55:09
Speaker
Are you ready for the next? I am ready. The next submission.
Raw Moments in Comics: Batman, Superman, and JLA
00:55:12
Speaker
All right. This is from our our friend Einar Mauson, our Icelandic friend, ah who says that his submission for Thursday Night Raw is from Batman and Robin number 15. Okay. one Which is one word. Gotcha. Yeah, shit's good.
00:55:39
Speaker
That shit's good, Matt. That shit's good. i like I had to go back and look because Batman ah saying, gotcha, in that moment feels like a thing that happens all the time. Yeah. And it like it wasn't.
00:56:08
Speaker
like that's that's not like a thing he did a bunch like it's not like a cool catchphrase that Batman would drop on dudes a lot and It's not even like a Morrison thing because I went back and read through like I have gone back and read through the Morrison Batman canon a significant number of times don't you worry. And it's not like he, like, he doesn't say that to the White Martians. He doesn't say that to like, the Black Hand in Arkham Asylum. It's kind of just here, where it's perfect. Because he gets him. He gets him, Matt. He does get him. And and we're the him we're talking about here is Dr. Hurt. For the second time he got him. This is the damn second time he got him.
00:57:01
Speaker
And boy, he gets him. And then him and Robin knock his ass out. Now, this is this is Dick Grayson Batman, right? Dick Grayson Batman is the one that that knocks Dr. Hurt out. Bruce Wayne Batman's the one that left the note. Bruce Wayne left the gotcha note. Yeah. Right. This is the end of the return of Bruce Wayne.
00:57:26
Speaker
Right, yes. ah because Like right after this, Dr. Heard opens the box. He's going to summon Barbados. The impenetrable box of ancient secrets. Right. He opens the box. He says, ah ah he's going to get Barbados. Sees the note inside that says, gotcha. Dick and Damien give him the double punch, classic style. And he says, what's happening? Don't you understand? I've won fiends.
00:57:55
Speaker
And then Dick says, you should have listened instead of shooting the doctor and now you're trapped. You won't write it to this one. Devil meet Bat God. And then he turns around and Bruce is there. Yeah. And he's got so the word balloons with the icicles on them. And he says, it's all over. Yeah. he Got it.
00:58:13
Speaker
Bruce Batman is there waiting on him, yeah. And and before that, it's worth it's worth mentioning, before that, Dr. Hurt believed that he had killed Dick Grayson by shooting him in the back of the head. But of course, that didn't work. We've we've talked before, it is not the prime raw emotion, or maybe it is. But we've talked about get his ass.
00:58:42
Speaker
Uh-huh Get his ass is a bit like That's that's what she's like. You want to read a raw moment and be like, yeah get his ass Get his ass and this is that Can I ask you For your genuinely honest opinion about one element of this hit me What do you think of this Fraser Irving art? I like it
00:59:09
Speaker
I remember liking it a lot at the time and going back and looking at it now, it's there's ah there's a weirdly dated feel to it. I don't i don't really know how to explain it. i I like how weird and stylized it is. like I don't think it works for everything, but I think like for this story and for like Dr. Hurt stuff, like I think that works And that panel of like that page of Batman coming back owns. It's great. Yeah, I I think it's the coloring That feels dated to me it feels like Computer art from a certain time period i heard that Irving was coloring his own art as far as I know it adds in a certain amount of
01:00:09
Speaker
Detail, but it's it it feels sort of graphic From that time period which would this would have been what 2009 2010 Yeah, this is pre new 52 I think so. Yeah, it had to have been No, it had it it was 2010. It was in 2010 so like I Don't it's it's it doesn't ah Heard it the way it does like maybe Batman r.i.p but It and I like how moody it is I think you're right that it's it's not wrong for this story because it is moody in a cool way mm-hmm, but it It has not aged as well as some of the other art from from comics of the time Unfortunately, but
01:01:03
Speaker
I don't think it ruins the moment. I think the moment is still raw and great. yeah They did get him. Boy, they got him. They got him. They got him. um Got his ass. like the best moments The best moments in the Morrison Batman run to me are the moments where it's like Dr. Hurt trying to put up a brave face when he is got Yeah, like i I love him standing oh at the helicopter at the end of Batman R.I.P. being like, yes, the black glove at great expense has made certain documents available. Like just still acting his little heart out. And then Batman's like your mangrove Pierce. Yeah. But when he says the black glove always wins and then Batman punches through the windshield by helicopter and he's and it's his fist in the black glove.
01:02:00
Speaker
ah but shit so good. oh Yeah, man. This is good. This is good as hell. I i love that. Normally, we're like, man, you know, Morrison did such great things and everybody ignored it afterwards for like 20 years. I'm glad that Dr. Hurt literally slips on a banana peel. Fucking choice. Slips on a banana peel, ah breaks his neck and gets buried alive by the Joker and you never see him again because like that dude's been got. Yeah, he got got. It's it's over. He's done. That dude was got hard. but Bruce Wayne's ancestor from the 18th century, he's done. Yeah, man.
01:02:51
Speaker
Yeah, man. I love that shit. I love that he is Mangrove Pierce and Thomas Wayne, but not bru not Bruce Wayne's dad, Thomas Wayne, Bruce's ancestor from 300 years ago. Yeah, from Thomas Jefferson times when he put barbecues. Yeah, 250 years ago, I guess. Oh, excellent. Excellent. All right, where's this one go? Where's Gotcha go?
01:03:22
Speaker
Uh, I mean, it's, look, I've got a smile on my face. It's good. yeah i I don't, it's certainly not as good as Baldur taking up the sword. Again, that's it. number forty I don't think it's, it's not up there with the tippy top moments of the Morrison run, which I think are Batman digging his way out of his own grave and the very end of RIP where, you know,
01:03:51
Speaker
You described it. Yeah. Where he's on the helicopter. Um, so yeah, I, I think it's, I think it's going to go, you know, lower than, than that stuff. Is it better than when Dr. Doom completely sunned the purple man? Absolutely not. That moment owns bones. All right. I don't think it's as good as Batman versus Prometheus round two. Okay. I can, uh, I could see it going above Magneto fatally attracting Wolverine. I mean, you say that, but beneath Magneto fatally attracting Wolverines out of Antium out of his body, we have ah Batman to Martians radio when you are at number 56. Okay, do you think that's not as... Do you think that's better than Gotcha? Yeah, man, he's about to beat the shit out of three dudes who have all Superman's powers, plus they can read your mind and turn invisible. Okay, right below that is Dr. Strange sending Magneto to tell Johnny Storm that God and Devil are the same.
01:04:52
Speaker
Uh, yeah. I think it's better than Ghost Rider grabbing onto Mjolnir and bite-kicking Thor in the face. I think it's better than that. Okay, is it better or worse than Dr. Doom stealing the beyond Beyonder's Power in Secret Wars? It's probably not as raw as that. That shit's pretty good. Okay, so this is the new number 59. Alright, which, hey, 59th most raw moment in comics. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. Alright, those...
01:05:22
Speaker
That brings an end to our line stepper submitted raw moments. We are now at 93 raw moments on the list. So we need seven more. Can we get through them all? I don't think so, but we'll try to get as many as we can. All right. Here is a submission from last year.
01:05:51
Speaker
almost exactly two years ago, no, two years ago, from Scott Hazelwood. Scott's raw submission is Daredevil 233, where Captain America says, I'm loyal to nothing, General, except the dream. That's good. is it It's good, but I don't know that it's raw. I don't know that it's raw in the same way. Yeah. It's good.
01:06:19
Speaker
Captain America is one of those dudes who I think has very few raw moments,
01:06:28
Speaker
what yeah given the amount of comics that he's been in. yeah like Yeah. But when he has them, they're good. When he has them, they're good. The the rawest moment I can think of of Captain America is which I'm bringing this up out of nowhere and it hasn't been submitted.
01:06:46
Speaker
is um when he takes the shield to bear in blood. Yeah, that one that's one. The one that I would think of is in Under Siege when Mr. Hyde ah fucks up Jarvis and then like smashes the Golden Age shield and crumples it and tears up Cap's picture of his mom and Berenzine was like, yeah, Captain America, what are you gonna do about that? And Cap goes, I'm gonna remember it. Because that dude's about to get his ass whipped. Yeah, yeah.
01:07:17
Speaker
the the I'm loyal to nothing general, but the dream speech is very good.
01:07:27
Speaker
Cause he's mad about Nuke, right? Yeah. But like, i i don't I don't know if it qualifies as raw. Hey, you know who made some real good ass comics?
01:07:45
Speaker
Who's that? ah Frank Miller and Dave Maskeller. Buddy, you ain't kiddin'. Too bad what what happened to Frank Miller happened to Frank Miller. and But he's a me to tri he was lost in the Bermuda Triangle. yeah yeah ah A good moment, Scott, but I don't know that it's a raw moment. Yeah, david very good, but it's not like...
01:08:07
Speaker
Cap's not about to get that guy's ass, you know? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, David Wynn suggests, submits the moment from Superman for the man who has everything where he says burn. That shit's pretty good. That's pretty raw. I like, I feel like it's been talked about to death, you know? Yeah. The, the only problem with that moment is that like the next 40 years have been people trying to do that moment again. Right. ah for If you don't know, For the Man Who Has Everything was the 1985 Superman Annual. It's by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons. And it's all about Superman ah getting tricked into like,
01:09:03
Speaker
Having and his ideal life right he gets trapped in the Black Mercy map Yeah, he gets trapped in the Black Mercy and it is convinced that You know he has the ideal life ah Mongol Brain washes him into thinking that like Krypton still there and Jor-El and And Laura are still alive and on on and on and on And then, you know, that's all fake. Superman learns that it's all fake. So he gets pissed. For one of the first times you see Superman get pissed. Yeah, he gets mad in a time when Superman did not get mad. Right. And so, yeah, his eyes turn red and he tells Mongol, burn. Yeah, it is unfortunately the start of ah angry, he visionized Superman.
01:10:01
Speaker
But again, like like Watchmen, that is not this story's fault. It's everyone who read its fault. Agreed. Because more, like, i you know, I think more gets a lot of like, quote unquote, credit for being the guy who created gritty superhero comics, right?
01:10:32
Speaker
But he earned it. Every time he did a story like that, he earned it. And notably, he has regretted it ever since. But it's just like, like he goes out of his way to make it make sense to super for Superman to have this reaction in this story. And everybody else who tried to do it ever since then has taken a shortcut where Superman just shows up with the fucking glowing red eyes, you know? Yeah.
01:11:02
Speaker
And, like, this story also has, like, you know, Batman and and Robin show up with, like, and Batman's like, yeah, I don't know, man, I paid some scientists to make, like, a ah cool flower. I thought that would be a fun thing for Superman's birthday. Yeah. Like, it's also got, like, fun superhero stuff going on at the same time. Like, Superman real quick runs and hides his replica of the bottle city of Kandor.
01:11:33
Speaker
so that he can pretend like he doesn't already have one when Wonder Woman gives him a replica of the bottle city again. Or like it's it's got like goofy fun superhero stuff in it too. It's like the contrast. Yeah. And okay. So the lead up to it is like Superman gets out of the Black Mercy and Mongol is like, I fashioned a prison that you could not leave without giving up your heart's desire. Escaping it must have been like tearing off your own arm and now I'm going to kill you anyway.
01:12:02
Speaker
Happy birthday, Kryptonian. I i give you you of oblivion. And so then that's when Superman says burned and his eyes are glowing red and he blasts Mongol with his heat vision and the the sound effect is shizit. Forgot that it was shizit. It's shizit. And notably all it does is hurt Mongol. It doesn't like incapacitate him. It doesn't it Far from kills him. In fact, Mongol's reaction is to say, you hurt me. Motherfucker, you hurt me. Nobody hurts me. And then the the ultimate end of the story is that they put the Black Mercy on Mongol. Yeah. And he thinks he wins the fight. Yeah. And then Superman goes right back to being like, hey, sorry, sorry I lost it there. Sorry I lost my temperature. Yeah.
01:13:01
Speaker
That guy's a real dingus. Yeah. And, and yeah, there's, there's an epilogue where like Mongol is, is like the emperor of, uh, what is it? Break world that he's from? No, you're thinking of, you're you're thinking of, uh, or from the X-Men. Oh, right. world Is war world, war world. Yeah. I always get this break world and war world and all of those mixed up.
01:13:26
Speaker
A foolish rookie mistake. i When you look at it in the context, it is a great moment that is actually raw. That is not the cliche. Yeah. I'll tell you who loved this moment. The editors and staff of Wizard Magazine. Boy did they. ah Boy did they. They thought it was the shit. And you saw it out of context in that magazine all the time. yeah I mean, look, they weren't wrong. It's pretty dope.
01:13:56
Speaker
Yes, but like, you know, talk about the context a little bit. Maybe. Matt, why would we talk about the context? We've got a Mort of the Month to name. That's true. That's true. So I think this goes on the list. I think it goes on the list. I think it definitely goes on the list. i i We don't consider legacy on this list as much as we do on ah on every story ever, but like this one has been effectively ruined by the next 40 years of comic books. That's true, and it's unfortunate. you know It's not this story's fault. It's not this story's fault. It's pretty good. Yeah. Is it is it better than Dr. Strange sending Amanda Hell and then telling Johnny Storm that God and the Devil are the same thing and there is no heaven because it's all Hell? No. Yeah, I don't think so.
01:14:52
Speaker
That one still fucks with me in real life, personally. I think it is probably better than the note for Dr. Hurt. Okay, yeah, I can see that. I don't know if it's better than Dr. Doom's Ceiling the Beyonder's Power. I think it goes above that too. Okay, it goes right below Dr. Strange, really challenging everyone's worldview. Yeah, it's the new number 58. 58.
01:15:25
Speaker
Do you know what number that annual is? Number 11. Number 11. Superman annual number 11 is what it is. That's a good story. It is a good story. It's like... just legal un limitedmit based on it There's a similar sequence in My Adventures with Superman, which I really need to to talk about and make my recommendation at some point. ah But Lois gets up in there too. Uh-huh. it's It's real good.
01:15:56
Speaker
Alright, John Sung sent us this submission. Love John.
01:16:05
Speaker
John had a hard time finding a single moment. isn it isn't But he wants to submit something from JLA Rock of Ages Part 5, Twilight of the Gods. I? You you know I love Rock of Ages.
01:16:23
Speaker
now John got really hung up on the many caption boxes from the Black Racer. And has the part where Adam goes and started Darkside Skull and barbecues his brain from the inside. That shit rules. But I do think the actual raw moment from John's submission is the bit where Darkside goes, you overcame to sod? Do I know you?
01:16:54
Speaker
And Batman says, we've shared a few laughs. Everything you know, everything you own. Everything you own, I'm taking it. Look up. I'm taking it all. Look up. And then the zombie factory blows up. Yeah, man. I want to point out, I was not looking at that comic just now. I have committed that shit to memory. Oh, that's good. I think if we're going to pick one raw moment,
01:17:24
Speaker
from that issue. It's got to be that. Can you believe, Matt Wilson, Mitch Wilson, can you believe that when it came out, people didn't like Rock of Ages? I can believe people liked all kinds of things or didn't like all kinds of things that were good because people have proven time and time again that they have disastrously terrible taste. That's true.
01:18:04
Speaker
It's so good. Like, look, I don't subscribe to the movie Men in Black for my life philosophy.
01:18:18
Speaker
But there are fewer things more profound than that bit in the movie Men in Black where Tommy Lee Jones tells Will Smith, a person is smart. People are stupid. That is that is generally correct. Yeah. all I like the part of this where they think they're going to go break Batman out of ah of DeSaud's Torture Dungeon. And then DeSaud takes his hood off, and it's Batman. And they're like, Batman, what happened? And he goes, Battle of Wits, I won.
01:18:58
Speaker
Yeah. Shit is hot. Hey, you know who's good? Grant Morrison. You know what? Morrison's Batman. Because I was talking about Cloud being an asshole earlier, right?
01:19:17
Speaker
Morrison's Batman says a lot of stuff where if you just heard him say that, you'd be like, what a dick. But because butt he backs it up every single time, it's it's ah raw and badass and great. You know what I mean? yeah Morrison rides that line with Batman constantly. Yeah, I also like that ah This is Batman. Everything you know, everything you own, I'm taking it all. Look up. God, that's good. But also what's good is that like what actually happens is that ah ah the future version of Aztec oh is is the one in the zombie factory on the moon blowing it up yeah on a suicide mission with ah with Argent from the Teen Titans.
01:20:17
Speaker
Man, the the the the team in the early, like, I know the idea of JLA was like, oh, we're going to have the big seven, but I love how like, how quickly Morrison is like, no, actually let's get in these freaks too. Let's get in these weirdos. Let's get, yeah, let's get in fucking Aztec.
01:20:43
Speaker
and plastic man, like all, all, all the weirdos. Yeah, man. Uh, this owns, it's great. It's people don't like, people did not like Rock of Ages. That's where dark side is came from. But people, the thing is like, it's the thing is though, you know how we talk about how people had the hardest time picking up Morrison ideas and doing something with them. Like it took like 15 years for that to really happen for the people who really read Morrison and like digested it and took it in to use it. I feel like that's also true of
01:21:44
Speaker
Kirby. Certain elements of Kirby. You know what I mean? like Yeah, I mean, there was there was a time when Kirby was definitely out of fashion. Outre, right? Yeah. yeah And like, Morrison in particular picked up all of that fourth world stuff and really used it. Like, it's not that Darkseid and the fourth world weren't used some in DC. During that sort of fallow period. But Morrison was the one who really made something of it, you know, like, it was it was Morrison. And then it was it was Carl Kiesel and Tom Grummet in Superboy. It's it was. Yeah, for real. And I mean, the Superboy stuff,
01:22:41
Speaker
The Superboy stuff predates Morrison, at least on JLA. Yeah. But yeah, I think you're right. Wild. I really do. Wild. So anyway, this this owns Darkseid then kills Batman, by the way. Yes. Just so you know, Batman knows this is the end.
01:23:04
Speaker
ah But yeah, she said with Omega beams. He gets shot with Omega beams. He does. Yeah, but he does good He did but here's the thing. Here's the thing to pay attention to this shit. He says let me show you mercy These are merely the finder beams next comes the Omega effect He's not using the Omega sanction the death of his life right But he does later. It's he he does he does after he gets shot with a God bullet. Oh
01:23:36
Speaker
No, this this is great. This is good stuff. Batman saying he's going to take away everything you have. Oh, that's good. Yeah, I think that's the, i that's got to be the raw moment. Yeah, no, it's it's great. It's great.
Comic Scene Analysis and Dialogue Debate
01:23:50
Speaker
I think that's better than Gohan going Super Saiyan 2. Okay, great. Do you think it's it's as good as Dr. Doom completely summing with Purple Man?
01:24:04
Speaker
Man, that Dr. Doom Purple Man moment has been burned into my brain ever since we read Emperor Doom. Best part of that book, by a long shot. No, I don't think it's above that. And I don't think it's above Thanos asking Ben Grimm what time it is.
01:24:24
Speaker
Alright, alright, alright. Then... I think it's better than Cobra Sun falling out of the blender. Alright, so it's the new number 41. That's from us from JLA ah number 14. Also, I'm just now registering that you said I made a rookie mistake by getting some names confused and rude.
01:24:49
Speaker
Yes. Yes. I'm sorry, Matt. That was rude. It was meant in jest. Matt Brady has another JLA moment for us.
01:25:04
Speaker
This is from ah one, this is from the same issue, actually. So, so ah you know, mileage may vary. ah It is Connor Hawk, Green Arrow, and Ray Palmer, Adam taking down Darkseid. He's in your head, you big ugly moron. So this is the moment I mentioned earlier where Adam gets in Darkseid's head and barbecues the brain.
01:25:31
Speaker
Yeah, ah this also rules. ah because There is so much going on in this one issue. It's unbelievable. Yeah, man. It's the cloud it's it it's the climactic act of Rock of Ages. Yeah. Number 16 is just ah ah kind like almost an epilogue. This is, all right. So Darkseid has this force field. Nothing can get through it.
01:26:00
Speaker
Right. ah We see Green Arrow shoot an arrow at his head and it just breaks. Yeah. Uh, this is after, uh, Darkseid has killed Batman. Uh, so he killed Batman um and Wonder Woman, uh, earlier in this issue and we get like a classic Hawkeye Ant-Man moment. Uh, but the Adam says, Hey,
01:26:24
Speaker
I'm Ray Palmer. I'm the atom. I'm a scientist. And I just realized you can see, which means something can get through your shield, light. And he shrinks down to the side of a photon. That's right. Goes into Darkseid's eye and and then just fucks up his brain. Right. He says, he says to him, nice brain, four lobes, which one first?
01:26:49
Speaker
And Darkseid doesn't know at that point. He he says, enjoy your hopeless victories. In the end, you too will serve me. And that's when Green Arrow is like, ah actually, um the only way we're going to serve you is medium rare. He's in your head, you big ugly moron. And there's this close up of Darkseid's face.
01:27:11
Speaker
going, what, no, not this, no. it's It's a lot like Hitler. It's a lot like Hitler going, ow. Ow, And then his brain gets barbecued from the inside. I like that i like that when Darkseid dies, like he like the atom essentially like gives him a stroke.
01:27:35
Speaker
And that's why he's like, no, not like this, not this. Well, he's, yeah, cause he just, then he just goes. do this ni And, then you see smoke coming from his head. Yeah. Cause his, uh, uh, brain, all the electric activity in his brain goes out of control and also kills the atom. Right. And then, uh, fucking. Fucking a black razor shows up.
01:28:05
Speaker
As the last part goes out in Darkseid's ruined brain, he dimly perceives the face of the only winner of this game. Then he, in his turn, meets the Black Racer. That shit's good. That shit is good. I will say this about it. And and it is not true of the Batman moment, somehow.
01:28:27
Speaker
Over time, like ten years later, the Morrison writing this scene would have about half the dialogue in it. There is a lot of dialogue. It's a lot of dialogue and it's trying to be that kind of like quippy, hu get ready to have your brain fried kind of dialogue, which it doesn't need. like These characters could be saying half as much. yeah i like Imagine Adam just not saying anything through this.
01:29:03
Speaker
There is a part of me that wonders if that is like a dialogue patch for the art. You know, could not again, not to knock Howard Porter, but like it is kind of hard to tell on a page with, uh, what is this? Uh, like a six panel page, like five panel page, like this shot of the atom zooming around dark sides brain.
01:29:33
Speaker
It's kind of hard to tell what that is. And that's not how reporters fall. Right. And and so it's like, Oh, I guess we gotta have some dialogue where Adam is saying, I'm at your brain. I'm flying around your brain now. Yeah. Yeah. I do wonder if it's, if it's meant as a dialogue patch. It's possible. Yeah. I mean, that, that, you know, doesn't make it any better. I just remember I just saw that part in Lone Wolf and Cub where ah that guy shows up to kill Gummy Ito and he says, my son and I are no longer ordinary men. We have entered the gates of hell. That shit's good. That shit's so good. i ah Hopefully we'll have that as a submission before we get to 100. You think you can kill me? You and your puny men? but So here's my question. Here's my question, Chris.
01:30:23
Speaker
Does this moment from the same issue that we just ranked a moment from go on the list? And if so, where? We've never had to deal with the problem of like one moment per issue. No. Because there aren't a lot of comics that have like two pretty raw moments. I would say like in isolation, I would put this moment on the list. I don't think it goes as high as the Batman moment we just ranked.
01:30:50
Speaker
No, but like this is less of a raw moment. It is raw, but it's more clever. Because I mean, if you can see something can get through the force field. In a purely literal sense, it's cooked. That's true. Darkseid's brain is being cooked. But it's not it's not metaphorically cooked at all. No, it's literally cooked. I don't think it's above I don't think it goes above Professor X putting saber tooth in a hole. I don't think it goes above Cleo turn on man to bones.
01:31:21
Speaker
I don't think so either. I don't think it goes above Calum. For me, he is right in the beanbag. Three issues later? Yeah. Yeah, man. I do think it's probably, I think it's probably better than Captain America growing to Kaiju size to fight Kang. I know the opposite of that. But Captain America calls him a little jacked up 10 Hitler. Yeah, but Captain America gets really big to fight Kang. Ray Palmer gets really little to fight Darkseid.
01:31:50
Speaker
yeah True. ah Okay, and so if you if you think it's the new number 79, then so be it. I mean, Matt, you can make an argument. I'm fine with it. I'm fine with it. All right, then the new number 80.
01:32:10
Speaker
We are running out of time, but let's do one more. We are at 96. Actually, you know what? Let's stop here. We have four more spots to fill. Four more spots. What other Grant Morrison comics will we talk about? What other moments from the issue JLA number 14? I mean, there's a couple of fucking good ones.
01:32:38
Speaker
That will do it. Grant then tricks Metron into becoming mortal and then beats the living shit out of him. That's pretty good. Yeah. All right. We will be back.
Podcast Community and Hosts' Projects
01:32:50
Speaker
with another episode next week. In the meantime, if you want to email us, submissions for the Thursday Night Raw list are closed. We will definitely only be doing one more Thursday Night Raw episode. So if you were a line stepper and I missed your submission, let me know as soon as possible.
01:33:11
Speaker
ah But you can email us, send us Every Story Ever lists, let us know if you want to sponsor the show or whatever else by emailing us at warrocketpodcast at gmail dot.com.
01:33:24
Speaker
We're on Blue Sky, warrocketajax.com, on Blue Sky. We're on Tumblr, warrocketpodcast.dumbler.com. You can join our Discord. If you ask us for an invitation in any of those places I just mentioned or on our Patreon, we'll send you an invitation to our Discord, and you can join that community of War Rocket Ajax fans. It's a pretty cool place over there, and I think you want to be there.
01:33:49
Speaker
ah So go ah Sign up or ask us for an invitation for our discord and and go over there if you're not there Our website is war rocket Ajax calm. It is every episode of the show we've ever done War rocket wiki calm is the fan run repository of information about war rocket Ajax all the information you could need So go check that out If you want to find me and my stuff, go to MattDWilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? I have been going to find me by going to the-isb dot.com. That is my website. You can find things that I've written there as well as links to other things that I do. Hey, I was recently on a couple of episodes of Retronauts.
01:34:35
Speaker
ah including a very fun episode, episode 666, where ah Benito and I guested to talk about the Satanic Panic and its effect on video games. oh That was a really fun one. And ah you should listen to it. If you like this show and you want to hear me say that moral panics are all bullshit, go listen to that episode of Retro Nauts.
Closing and Social Justice Affirmations
01:34:58
Speaker
Thanks for listening, everybody. Yeah, we'll be back next week. I think it's i think it's time for Jurgis.
01:35:04
Speaker
We're going back to the Jurgys next week, I think, yeah. So. You better, you better get your ah ah umbrella ready. Cause. The rain. The raining. Time for the raining. The raining.
01:35:19
Speaker
Until then everybody, do not forget Black Lives Matter. Trans rights are human rights. As are abortion rights. Drag is not a crime. Diversity is not the problem and cops aren't your friends. But we love you. We love you.