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The Bad Batch: S3:E9 - The Harbinger (Review)
32 Plays9 months ago
This week on This is the Wayseekers, we're continuing our weekly Bad Batch Discussions with Episode 9 "The Harbinger," as well as the return of Asajj Ventress and her future in Star Wars storytelling.
This is the Wayseekers is a Star Wars podcast, with new episodes every other Friday @ 8:00am CT. Join your hosts Austin SWE and Scotty Holiday SW as they navigate their ways through the Star Wars galaxy.
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Transcript
The 'Asshair' Ship: Ventress and Crosshair
00:00:00
Speaker
Speaking of Ventress and Crosshair, their little moment where they're sharing, where they're grabbing each other's arms. And I've seen a lot of people talking about how they ship them. Does that mean? Asshair? Yes, I was about to say, does that mean that their ship name is Asshair? I'm glad you brought it up because I wanted to ask you as a huge Crosshair fan. Austin, how do you feel about Asshair? I mean, I'm not trying to shave it off. I'll tell you that much.
Podcast Introduction and 'Bad Batch' Overview
00:00:34
Speaker
Welcome back to This is the Way Seekers, a podcast for Star Wars fans by Star Wars fans. My name's Austin SWE. I'm here with my co-host Scottie Holiday on this Easter Sunday, celebrating the resurrection of our Lord and Savior, Asajj Ventress.
00:00:51
Speaker
She has risen. She has risen indeed. Indeed. Yeah, we're a little late. So, of course, we had to make a little joke out of it. Happy Easter and happy Trans Day of Visibility as well. Yes, we have a super eventful day going on today. Lots of things going on.
Episode Analysis: 'The Harbinger' and Ventress' Return
00:01:09
Speaker
But I'm happy to take the time to finally discuss Bad Batch with you, Scotty. Which episode are we discussing today?
00:01:17
Speaker
We're discussing episode nine, The Harbinger, and I can't lie. I've been waiting to talk to you about this episode for days. Oh, no. Oh, I'm ready to get into it.
00:01:29
Speaker
I don't even think days. I think ever since that trailer dropped where we saw Ventress, we both have been waiting to discuss this episode and we've made it a long running joke. And all these last few episodes, like, oh, Scotty keeps talking about, where's Ventress? Where's Ventress? Finally here. Finally get to discuss it. I'm super excited.
00:01:49
Speaker
Yeah, you and I both. It's been a long time coming. Yes, yes. Well, I want to ask you just straight off the bat, because you've been waiting so long and, you know, you didn't even know a few months ago that you would ever see a Sarge Ventress again on screen, at least. How do you feel? How did it go? Well, I haven't seen your reaction or anything, so I literally have no idea how you feel about this.
00:02:14
Speaker
Honestly, it was a very weird episode, but in a good way, because I feel like for me and I feel like everybody else I watch, we didn't really know how Ventress was going to play into this episode or play into the Bad Batch as like the story in general. I know I had speculated that she'd come in as a bounty hunter maybe after Omega.
00:02:33
Speaker
And I was I was half right, I would say, because she still came in as a bounty hunter. But instead of trying to capture Omega, she came to try to help her. And I'd say a bit of try to help her not get captured or at least like wink, wink, nudge, nudge to Hunter and cross her by the end to be like, it's better if y'all don't know because it'll only make it worse. So this episode.
00:02:57
Speaker
Initially, I was happy with it, but obviously I wanted more. I just wanted the whole episode to be about Ventress and nothing but her. But that's just me being a selfish, biased fan, wanting to see my favorite character in the spotlight.
Thematic Concerns: Ventress and 'Dark Disciple' Alignment
00:03:12
Speaker
But the more time it's gone on since I've really, really come to love this episode and how quintessential it is with the themes of Star Wars in general and the whole like
00:03:22
Speaker
Jedi training in in that of itself, which is something I want to talk to you about a little bit later. But yeah, how do you feel about it? Yeah, I thought it was a really great episode. You know, obviously one of the biggest worries was like, how is this going to line up with Dark Disciple? They said beforehand, like, yeah, it absolutely will line up and they were.
00:03:45
Speaker
right i mean technically right there are ways that you could make dark disciple and the harbinger connect and you know make it seamless but i think it was a little bit of a cop out i i kind of wonder the thing i keep wondering is what would this episode have been like if we had no idea that ventris was going to return and the first time we ever found out that she was coming in was that scene where it was like the jump scare
00:04:14
Speaker
Honestly, I would have preferred it that way. Really? I probably would have cried. Yeah, it would have been very exciting. But I almost wonder if the reason they said everything beforehand and showed her in the trailer was like a preparation so that they could be like,
00:04:33
Speaker
no don't worry it's gonna connect it's gonna connect and then they just give that one little line at the end like oh i have a few lives left but you know they keep talking about how there's more coming they keep saying that there's more ventures coming and new content or something and nika futterman seems to be involved as a voice actress
00:04:52
Speaker
So there's something coming and there's something that's going to connect the bridge.
Character Speculations: Ventress in the Star Wars Universe
00:04:56
Speaker
And, you know, and they've already said they've already said that the explanation is going to come in another piece of media. So that's been exactly confirmed, I guess. So Jennifer Courbet. So.
00:05:08
Speaker
Yeah. And honestly, it would have been a little weird for Ventress to come in and be like, yeah, I died and now I'm back. And it's like there was no place for that to naturally occur. Yeah, because she didn't know any of them before. Right.
00:05:24
Speaker
So like, why would she be like, oh, here's why I've been gone or here's why I died and now I'm back. I know you guys really were curious. They didn't even know who she was in the episode when she showed up. I think it was Hunter that had a suspicion who she could have been. But like, as we saw in the episode, they had to pull out text data pad to like essentially look in the files and this.
00:05:48
Speaker
I don't know about you, but, you know, we did Dark Disciple Book Club when they talked about all her war crimes. They're like, it's a Sarge Ventress. I was like, why didn't it say pardoned in big letters on her file? You know what I mean? Right, right. I guess because by the time that it all happened, the war was coming to an end. There was just no time. But honestly, I think that, you know, I've talked about in the past, like one of my favorite rebels episodes is where the separatists and the Republic or the clones and the droids
00:06:17
Speaker
have to come together and fight as one. We got a lot of those themes in this episode with Ventress, you know, calling out being like, you know, we're not too different. We're both pawns in this war that's over now and we both lost and we were used. And it's so true. Ventress was used as a pawn for the Separatist as a weapon, as a Separatist assassin, as her database says.
00:06:42
Speaker
So I love I loved this episode. I do have a few criticisms that we'll get into. But honestly, I don't think the return of Ventress could have gone better for me personally. No. And like I said, as time as more time goes by since I first watched the episode, I've just started loving it more and more and more. And my brain's just like going on like it almost feels like the sky's the limit on where the character can go from here, which
00:07:10
Speaker
Six months ago, you know, it was like Dark Disciple loves the book. So happy we got a final nice ending to Ventress's story. I was never happy that she died, but like I was like, it's a moving ending and it's nice. Yeah, I'm not really concerned about them. Rhett conning it or whatever. But yeah, we'll see as time goes. If, you know, Dave Filoni pulls a well, I'm just going to change a few things up and ignore the book, then I'll probably have some words, but
00:07:39
Speaker
I am staying positive. I think it's going to be good.
Star Wars Retcons: Impact of Ventress' Return
00:07:43
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. You know, I see all the discussions about is a retcon. Is it not? I mean, by definition, it is a retcon. But I think that in the Star Wars fandom, retcon has, you know, now become a more negative connotation.
00:07:59
Speaker
Right. When in reality, retcons happen all the time. A retcon is adding in a piece of information in a later story that changes the context of a previous story. So by that definition, Asajj Ventures returning and being alive changes the context of Dark Disciple. It changes that emotional impact at the end. It changes the
00:08:19
Speaker
You know, it doesn't change like the sacrifice or anything, but, you know, it changes the context of that book, meaning it's a retcon. And now it depends on the future with the explanation on whether it was a good retcon or not. But I think there's ways. I think, you know, we've talked about the water turning green and the Nightsisters welcoming her back. You know, I have to stop you. And I promise I'm not asking this in a bitchy way, but did you finish the book?
00:08:47
Speaker
yeah yeah yeah i finished you did finish it okay yes yes so then yeah it's something because you weren't in the final book club meeting so this is something else i wanted to bring up with her return is not only does she almost i feel like
00:09:01
Speaker
gets a vision. She finally taps into like the light side of the force and she gets this vision of all the possible outcomes like in that final moment when it's her and Voss before she steps in and sacrifices herself for him. But I almost feel like that right there was a gift from the light side of the force and giving her
00:09:22
Speaker
giving her the option to choose kind of like they talk about in the book where they were like, Obi-Wan was fighting so much to be like, let Quinlan choose to come back to the light side. And in that moment, Ventress chose to everyone always says given to the dark side. She gave into the light side, I feel like in that moment. So that was part one, I feel like of her gift of redemption. And then part two was when she was kind of
00:09:47
Speaker
buried laid to rest or as I'm kind of looking at it almost baptized in a sense into a new life reborn through the water of life on yeah yeah
Potential Dynamics: Ventress Training Omega?
00:09:58
Speaker
we won't talk about how that's literally the name of the church I used to go to water of life so happy easter happy easter water of life church she is risen
00:10:12
Speaker
Yes, she has risen indeed. You know, I really like the way that ventures is utilized, though, like, yeah, she was just kind of there. And I've seen a lot of people talking about that kind of that's a criticism for a lot of people is like, she was just there. How did she find them? I think that that was intentional.
00:10:31
Speaker
because it shows, and Ventress even calls this out, that they're not as hidden as they think they are on Pabu. They're easily found. Yes, Fennec never told Ventress about Pabu because Fennec never knew about Pabu or where their location was. So that just means that based off of
00:10:50
Speaker
Ventress knowing that these clones exist somewhere, she was able to find them. It shows the danger that's coming. And the episode is titled The Harbinger. People are like, what is she informing them about? She's informing them that they are not safe here. Omega is not safe there. And whether it's her leaving to go train somewhere so that she can fight off the empire or just getting the fuck off of Pabu for now.
00:11:14
Speaker
They're not safe there. And so I really liked that whole aspect of Ventress's inclusion in this episode. I almost feel like the title. Yes, I feel like it relates to that is showing that like changes coming. You all need to. You're so open here. Like it's not going to end well. But I almost feel like introspectively, we also saw a huge change in her as a character to in her outlook. Something I mentioned in my reaction video was that I feel like she's a lot more balanced within the force than she's ever been.
00:11:43
Speaker
And I say that in the sense of like using the light and the dark together. Yeah. And we see that one way or the other. I think that's kind of with when it specifically when she calls on, reaches out, feels everything. We see the pretty cute little neon stingrays, but also a big scary monster comes and it's like, well, yeah.
00:12:05
Speaker
She's not. She's not completely light sided, y'all. She's still she's still like. And this is something we talked about in the book as well. She kind of retrained as a night sister within the dark side. I don't think she's pulling on like the Sith dark side anymore. And I think there is a difference. But something that she talks about in the book is really like.
00:12:28
Speaker
making sure that you don't give in to those given to the dark side in a and let it control you essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And I think we see that like obviously thematically with what Ventress is doing, what she's dealing with, what she's handling in this episode with the batch. But also, I mean, think about it. We see her force choking wrecker and the five minutes later we see her taming a giant monster like if she was Grogu or she was Ray, you know what I mean? And so.
00:12:57
Speaker
I think that I think you're right on the nose there that she is very much, you know, she's she's not a Jedi. She makes that clear to Omega, but she's also not a Sith assassin anymore either. And so and as she says in the episode to the batch, she's not their enemy.
00:13:16
Speaker
Exactly. Exactly. It's kind of like, have you seen, I think it was the costume designer that was explaining the armor shoulder, what do you call it? Shoulder patch. Pauldron. Pauldron. Yes. With the, with the snake on it and talking about how snakes are misunderstood creatures. A lot of the times you obviously associate snakes with evil a lot of the times, but
00:13:40
Speaker
are snakes as animals just chilling on the earth? Are they really evil? You know what I mean? And so it's kind of the same thing here with Ventress, you know, they kind of judge her based on her past. And, you know, obviously, you know, huge redemption fan talked about this every episode, the way that they're able to tie it into crosshair, where it's like,
00:14:01
Speaker
You know, Omega being like, hey, like I didn't give up on you crosshair and crosshair is just like he's literally gagged. He's literally shook. Yeah, he's like. Right. Right. I'll just sit here and chew on my toothpick. I'm not going to say anything because everything I can try to have a rebuttal about. She's going to prove wrong. Exactly. Exactly. And speaking of Ventress and crosshair, a little moment where they're sharing where they're
00:14:27
Speaker
grabbing each other's arms. And I've seen a lot of people talking about how they ship them. Does that hair? Yes, I was about to say, does that mean that their ship name is ass hair? That's what that's what I've kind of enjoyed calling it. And that's I'm glad you brought it up because I wanted to ask you as a huge crosshair fan. Austin, how do you feel about ass hair? I mean, I'm not trying to shave it off. I'll tell you that much.
00:14:57
Speaker
I mean, I'm down for it. I knew the second I watched it when I saw them grab each other's arms and, you know, like, or he's like helping her on the ship. I was like, yeah, like, I don't know if I necessarily ship it, but I know people will. And then now, like, kind of just thinking about it, like, that wouldn't be a horrible relationship. I do want to see more. Oh, I love no possibilities.
00:15:22
Speaker
Not me, because I thought about it and I was like, I don't want to deal with their grumpy asses together. They're going to be like two married old people who have been married for 50 years and like aren't really in love anymore, but they've been together so long.
Critique: Episode Length and Storytelling Limitations
00:15:33
Speaker
So just fucking grumpy. However, platonically, I almost feel like him like reaching out to help her onto the ship was also in a sense recognizing that they have more in common than recognize real.
00:15:47
Speaker
yeah recognizing that they had more in common than he first realized and just was quick to judge her when just a few weeks ago you know he was not a part of the bad batch again so like they accepted him after everything he had done and i feel like thinking about it in that moment it was also him kind of being like
00:16:08
Speaker
I accept you and maybe he was the olive branch after Omega, of course. Yeah. Yeah, I think that the two have a lot of a lot in common. I think Ventress has a lot in common with the entire batch, which is why it makes so much sense that she was included in this episode, why she was the person to explain midichlorians, which, by the way,
00:16:30
Speaker
Finally got that midichlorian name drop. How do you feel about that? I yelled. I like I know you said you haven't watched my reaction yet, but like, yeah, I literally had to pause it and I was like, finally, they said the word. They said the thing like, right.
00:16:47
Speaker
And it's funny, because I know we had talked about before just being like, Ventress is going to have to be the one to say midichlorian or like, but or to explain midichlorians to them, explain what M count is. But watching it happen, I'm like, she's the most unlikely person. Like, had we not known she was going to be in this season, she would.
00:17:08
Speaker
even if she didn't die in Dark Disciple, taking that away, like having her as a someone on the playing field to be that character to explain it, she would not have been in my top 10 as like the person to do it. Oh yeah, she'd have been on the bottom of my list. I don't even know if she would have made it on my list, but like. Right, right.
00:17:26
Speaker
But then for her to be the one kind of explaining it was really interesting. And I'm curious how how much she actually knows about what the empire is doing, because she's very cagey and what information she gives away to the batch about it. And even at the end with like when she pulls a quag on and somehow these force users have ways in their ships to scan blood and get MCAL like readings, which I was like,
00:17:57
Speaker
Ventrix just has this on her ship. They just had it on the ship. She went into her ship unless she sent it to somebody. Maybe she sent it to Voss.
00:18:06
Speaker
Well, I just kind of figured that the whole test was just the apple on her head and then go get the flower and then the whole thing with the giant monster. Because I remember thinking. Well, I guess the second one. Except the second one.
Ventress' Role and Character Exploration
00:18:24
Speaker
But I I almost thought that those were I was like,
00:18:29
Speaker
Oh, like Ventress is doing it in a more natural way. Like maybe she doesn't believe in or maybe she doesn't trust like the Jedi technology. But I guess, you know, you watched that more than me. So if she tested her blood, then she tested her blood.
00:18:43
Speaker
But I mean, it's it's not specifically like like I mean, we we know in episode one, Qui-Gon literally like pricks Anakin's finger and then plugs it into his little Venus razor calm. And it's like, Obi-Wan, I need you to test the sample. So.
00:19:02
Speaker
When she gets out, she gets out of her ship and then comes and gives them the news where she's like, Yeah, your M counts, nothing special. All right. So maybe it's just an assumption or like something I thought I inferred from the episode, but I'd be interested for anybody else. Like, let us know in the comments whether you thought that.
00:19:21
Speaker
She actually tested her bladder if she was just using the the physical tests that she had done with Omega to kind of determine which she doesn't even she doesn't really give us the truth even crossers like they're lying and she's like about which part
00:19:36
Speaker
Yeah, I love that whole part. I think that kind of leads into my biggest criticism of this episode and kind of the whole bad batch season as a whole. We need more than 27 minute episodes, especially for something like this. There was just no time to really breathe. I think one of the biggest examples was just how much Hunter did not trust Ventress at all and was like, absolutely not. And you know, understanding that
00:20:05
Speaker
Omega is being targeted by the whole ass empire. You know, the Galactic Empire is targeting Omega. And he just goes like goes from being like, no, we can't trust her and then has that one little conversation, which wasn't long enough, in my opinion, or they just didn't go deep enough into like why they should trust Ventress. And then all of a sudden it's like.
00:20:30
Speaker
Ventress and Omega are halfway across Pabu with no one else. And I'm like, as they're all watching, you know, right far away and they're micro or macro binoculars or whatever the fuck they're called. Right, right. And I'm like, you know, I'm not saying that that can't happen, that they can't have trusted her or taken Omega's word. I just would have loved to see more of a conversation, you know, what more than crosshair just being like, huh, huh?
00:20:58
Speaker
whoo, like when Omega was like, but I saved you and you know, things like that. I just would have liked to see them dive deeper into it. And then with that, they could have, you know, shown more of like, okay, how did Ventress come to the conclusions that she did that Omega actually is force sensitive and, you know,
00:21:16
Speaker
Really, she has the potential to be. Exactly.
Future Arcs: Ventress in Star Wars
00:21:21
Speaker
I just feel like Ventress was brought in to give answers, but none of the answers were satisfying enough because there was just no time to go into it.
00:21:31
Speaker
Well, it's funny that you mentioned that too, because I feel like we should at this point in the season, we should know a bit more about what's going on with this whole m count thing. Who are these other people that are being brought in? Why are they having bounty hunters bring them in and not inquisitors? What are the inquisitors hunting for sensitive children for? Is it the same thing?
00:21:54
Speaker
Right. Yeah, it just feels a little disconnected. I mean, listen, there's a bajillion ways that they're able to bring it all together and make it, you know, like we're getting two episodes next week. And I think that's according to people who got the screeners and stuff, too. We're going back to Mount Tantis. Yeah, I heard that. I heard that Hemlock's like going to do some fucked up shit. But I think with those like two episode, the two episodes that we've gotten are like the three episodes at the start. I feel like
00:22:24
Speaker
when they slow it down and do one story across two episodes that it just, it does so much better. Like think of all the little moments that we got between the clones in the last two parter or that beginning where it's like crosshair and Omega, there's more time where it's just like, it's not just in 27 minutes. They're like, oh, I would leave you behind anytime.
00:22:47
Speaker
and then all of a sudden they're escaping. It's like, we got that room. It must be like them breathe, you know, and even a little intermission with the Wrecker and Hunter episodes. So I don't know. I totally understand that this is animation, and that means that, you know, if the episodes were longer, that some poor guy's gonna miss out on Christmas and his daughter's birthday.
00:23:12
Speaker
because he's going to be animated. But, you know, I think I don't know. I just I just would have liked to see it breathe more. But how did you feel? Did you get enough? Well, no, of course not. Like I said, I could have taken a whole season of interest and maybe with the backdoor pilot that they were doing with her that that's what we're going to get as a whole series about her. Yeah. But
00:23:39
Speaker
Yeah, I would have liked a little bit more because I would have preferred because Ventress, like I said, she was super cagey with what she did tell them and what she didn't tell them. And like you said, like.
00:23:50
Speaker
Omega, yes, she's naturally very naive, as crosshair puts it in the episode, but she's also very compassionate. And in general, she's she's empathetic and compassionate. So she conveniently allows these people to come into the story and not have to prove that there are good people to be around because Omega automatically always trust these people.
00:24:13
Speaker
And I'm like saying that out loud. I'm like, it's just on purpose. She's just so they don't have to. They don't have to show us all the like trusting in that whole process. I would have liked a bit more. And I think I think that's also why to at least with the Ventress portion of it, why they've been so open about talking about they're going to tell more of her story. Right. Because not knowing that.
00:24:39
Speaker
I'd be like, what the fuck? Yeah, that's it going on. Yeah. Yeah. I know some people have talked about, you know, oh, is she going to show up later in the season?
Interactions and Influence: Ventress and Omega
00:24:49
Speaker
My hope, I'd love it. Do I think it's going to happen? No.
00:24:54
Speaker
I don't know I think that because of how little we got like yeah it could just be leading into the next series or whatever and that's it. I think that if at the very least the last shot if Omega lives or the last scene is going to be Ventress picking up Omega.
00:25:12
Speaker
I think that Ventress will train Omega. That's about I don't know. You know, it's funny about that, and I'm glad you brought this up as well as just talking about their dynamic. I think the reason I love their dynamic so much is because it reminds me of the dynamic between her
00:25:31
Speaker
Ventress and Quinlan Voss in Dark Disciple, because it's that like constant butting heads of like grumpy Ventress and like super goofy, positive Voss, where this is, you know, grumpy Ventress and then super positive and bubbly Omega. Like I mentioned before we even started the line where Ventress is like, stop smiling. It's unsettling to Omega because she's just like, oh, I'm on the ship. Right. Yeah. The wind through my hair.
00:26:01
Speaker
Yeah, I think that I think it would be a good dynamic because like you said with with Quillen and Vossen Ventress, they both learned a lot from each other, honestly. And I feel like it could be the same case here where it's like, Omega needs to learn to be a little bit more cynical, a little less trusting. Obviously, you know, more selfish to I feel like in a positive way, obviously.
00:26:25
Speaker
exactly like she can remain hopeful and you know everything else but you know at this point I wouldn't be surprised if Ventress is like we can't kill Hemlock you know like even though oh no I think you meant Omega is gonna be like we can't kill Hemlock cuz you know Ventress kill his ass in a heartbeat
00:26:46
Speaker
That's who I met, not Ventress, Omega. I figured, I was like, Ventress kill his ass in a heartbeat, there's no way you meant to say that, Trent. Yeah, no, I met Omega. Omega would, yeah, Ventress, he's done for. But Omega, I feel like literally despite everything that he's done, she would be like,
00:27:05
Speaker
There's a chance though, like, you know, and I need her to, you know, I love the positive vibes and I love the hope, you know, Star Wars is all about hope, but she's just a little too hopeful that it's going to bite her in the ass. For sure and that might be what?
00:27:23
Speaker
the season finale ends up being, which is really stressful and like almost anxiety inducing to think about as a fan and just like for loving these characters. I think it's even Ventress in the episode who mentions like something to the effect of with Omega that. Things I'm trying to remember exactly what she says if she says it to Omega or if she says it to like the other members of the Bad Batch, just that.
00:27:53
Speaker
things aren't going to be as easy as they think. Or maybe this is just relating to the like, you're really open here. You're not as safe as you think you need to be. You all need to buckle down and like do something because it's not going to end well. Right, right. It's exactly what she said. Something about like how the empire can easily find you if I was able to find you with all their resources and me and my little ship, I was able to find you. So
00:28:18
Speaker
Yeah, I think that. But then but then they're on Pabu. And mind you, they've been building up Pabu as this safe place. They brought those clones there, which we haven't seen. Yeah, I was like, are we going to see those clone cadets again? Probably with Shep and Liana, who also weren't they didn't ask them to come back for season three, obviously. They got a mention, but they have yet to show up. And I'm like, where the fuck are Shep and Liana? Where did the bad batch live on Pabu? You know, they have to have a hut at this point.
00:28:47
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. They just live at that little table, you know, outside of Shep and Liana's house. Yes. But they've just been building it up as like a safe space, you know, a place for where there's peace in the galaxy. Like a sanctuary. Yeah. Like this like this hidden gem.
00:29:06
Speaker
Yes. And think about, you know, we've talked about how they're very good at foreshadowing with like the lighting and things like that. Think about how foggy and grave hobby was this episode compared to the other episodes is something coming, you know, like. And it's not a tsunami this time. Yeah, it's going to be a big ass fucking Star Destroyer with someone on it.
00:29:30
Speaker
So I'm glad you brought that up because I've been wondering if we're going to see an Inquisitor in this show and. As I kind of thought about it, well, let me ask you, do you think you will see an Inquisitor in the show? I don't know. I keep I definitely thought about it because like you said, they at least from rebels and like the Vader comics, it was their job to kidnap
00:29:55
Speaker
even the four sensitive babies that didn't pose any type of threat or anything like that, those inquisitors were still the one hunting them down.
Storytelling Opportunities in Star Wars
00:30:03
Speaker
So in that context, it would make sense for them to be after Omega. But in these episodes, we've seen that it's bounty hunters after the M count. And so I don't know. Maybe the bounty hunters just don't do a good enough job. And that's why the inquisitors get stuck doing it. But what kind of ruin that theory for me, because I really like the idea of an inquisitor coming in, is that
00:30:24
Speaker
Palpatine doesn't know about Omega's like blood. True. Therefore, Hemlock, I feel like is keeping that to himself and maybe Emory and like his close group on Tantis. So I'm like, who would dispatch an Inquisitor at that point? Because we know Vader is kind of in charge of them. You know what would be really cool? Don't say Vader.
00:30:48
Speaker
No, ew. Oh, no. The brand Inquisitor. Yeah, yeah, I definitely if there is an Inquisitor, it would have to be him because I mean, I guess the comics and rebels, they don't exactly line up 100 percent. But at least from rebel season one, it was like he was a five year old.
00:31:10
Speaker
If I will read the words to serve. Right. Oh, I'm getting real speculative because I'm like, oh, or they could have it be Trilla. I'd love that. Or as well, you know, they're. OK, OK, Scott. I mean, they're connecting to the books. I think you're on to something with Trilla, though, because as we've seen, somebody in that writers room is a huge fan of fallen order and survivors. So yeah, I could definitely see that.
00:31:40
Speaker
Well, and I think it'd be also cool like because.
00:31:44
Speaker
I I'm going to say this. I don't think an Inquisitor is going to come. So I'm just completely speculating and like this is what I'd love to see, even though I don't necessarily think it's going to happen. But it's still fun to talk about. Yeah. It'd be cool to have an Inquisitor come as a parallel to Ventress and Omega to then have an Inquisitor come in and like be the foil to Ventress is almost like light mentor side and have this Inquisitor come in and be real shitty to Omega.
Ventress and Quinlan Voss: Journey Speculations
00:32:13
Speaker
And then that could be a way to get Ventress back into the fold, because at that point, Hunter could be like, Ventress, I know, like we did not get along, but I need you. Right. And then that would also appease the fact that, you know, that we're talking about that Hunter didn't really get a chance to come to terms with trusting her.
00:32:35
Speaker
Yeah, I think you're onto something there. Cause it's like with Omega, if Omega finds out that she actually does have the potential that, you know, Ventress was, you know, lying about it, there's going to be a huge want for Omega. She's going to want to train and it's super, that leaves a wide open door for someone like an Inquisitor or a Sith or just a dark side user to come in and be like, I could train you in the ways of the force.
00:33:03
Speaker
You know, yeah, very true. So you're kind of honest too. And she's so trusting that I mean, just think of season one with Fennec Shand. Fennec was like, oh, I'll help you find your friend. She's like, oh, my God, thank you. You're so nice. You're so cool.
00:33:19
Speaker
like you're like a you're like a girl boss and like I'm a girl and I'm just around a bunch of male clones all the time like right give me somebody like to look up to like another female to look up to and oh yeah that could go really bad but maybe that'd be something more for the Ventress Omega sequel series to the Bad Batch
00:33:41
Speaker
Yeah, I really wonder what that's going to be. But, you know, I guess we'll just have to wait and see just from the sounds of it, though, like it sounds like it's some type of Ventress series. Yeah. And I feel like this was just I don't want to say backdoor pilot, but also kind of a test to gauge how much people actually like the character because we know Filoni wanted to bring her back in resistance, but that didn't pan out. And did you see that it was Dave Filoni's idea to bring her back?
00:34:11
Speaker
It's like, who announced that? Who said that? Because now, at this point, you're just putting a target on his forehead. Dave hates books. Like, at this point, it's a pattern. Dave Filoni, he's the new Lea Michelle he can't read. Yes. Oh, yeah. And it's funny, because it's like, this is the second time that it's been a retcon of a book that he approved, that he worked on. It's like he worked on the Ahsoka novel.
00:34:41
Speaker
He had some involvement with Dark Disciple, the not OK. At least this one's not like completely erasing things that that's true. Exactly. There's like a very easy way to connect both. There's no possible right. I would have righted Avengers had like a blue lightsaber. Oh, I would have literally like picked up my computer screen and like smashed it on the ground.
00:35:04
Speaker
Yeah. Could you imagine? I would go insane. I would rage. She did get a new lightsaber design. Did you see the design itself? Yeah. And it looks similar to her older ones. And I, you know, understand that. But I really do love the fact. I mean, it sucks that she had to make a new one and get a new ship and everything. You know, I would have loved to see the old one, but kind of.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah, it's all right. It's all right. But I do think that it's really cool that Ventress went with a yellow saber twice. Yeah. You know what I mean? Or it found her twice. Yeah. But we don't even know how she got it. If it's going to truly be a retcon for Dark Disciple, that this was the saber that she was using. You know, I had mentioned in one of my videos talking about maybe she found
00:35:56
Speaker
one or both of her lightsaber hilts on the black market afterwards. And that's how she kind of built this saber crystal to I know in legends, somebody heals a red crystal and it turns yellow. So interesting.
00:36:15
Speaker
Yeah, I feel like if they, I don't think they're going to retcon the Saber to be like, this was the Saber that was in Dark Disciple, because I feel like if they were going to do that, they would have just gave her the same old Saber.
00:36:29
Speaker
You know what, and I could totally see because she was given like a proper Jedi burial like that stated in Dark Disciple, I could see her being buried with her kyber crystal or her lightsaber. Yeah, you know what I mean? So that just feels like something the Jedi would do is like bury somebody with their crystal or their saber.
00:36:47
Speaker
Yeah, I'm sure it'll make so much more sense once we like know what happened and like how she survived and everything I feel like it's gonna be very similar to like Book of Boa Fett like if you if you really think about it
00:37:03
Speaker
the way that they were brought back is not too different, where it's like, at the end of Dark Disciple, there's obviously some signs that maybe it wasn't a death or there's ways to connect it. Just like Return of the Jedi, Boba Fett falls into a Sarlacc pit, but that's not convincing enough to, you know, say he's dead, but we'll accept that he's dead until further notice. And then in The Mandalorian, he comes back and they don't explain how he came back or anything like that.
00:37:32
Speaker
I think it was very similar to Ventress where they just kind of allude to it like, I've had many lives or some shit like that. Yeah. And then in the, you know, he gets his own series and then in the beginning they show how he survived and kind of what followed. And I would really, really like to see that. Now, I just hope that all of a sudden it's not like,
00:37:53
Speaker
the last two episodes are about a soaker or some shit, but you know, I would really like to see them follow suit with like the beginning of Book of Boba Fett, where it's like, show me that kind of journey she went on, like one, show me how she survived, but to kind of show me the journey she's on right now, because there has to be like,
00:38:12
Speaker
something going on here where it's like, where's Quinlan Voss? You know, where does her loyalty lie? You know, is she just being like, I'm out here for myself. Is she bounty hunting? What is she doing? You know, you know what? I like to think, huh? I like to think that she hasn't caught up with Voss yet because either she doesn't know he's still alive. True. Because she thinks he's still on the dark side.
00:38:40
Speaker
Well, I don't think that I think that there may be a I don't know if I can handle seeing him again after everything we went through. So she's purposefully not going to find him. That's something that I'd like to see their first reunion in whatever comes next. Mm hmm.
00:38:57
Speaker
Yeah, that's something that I really would like to see is their reunion.
Ventress and Quinlan Voss: Potential Series Exploration
00:39:00
Speaker
And honestly, you talking about like seeing where Ventress, how she got to this point, they'll have to show some sort of dark disciple catch up. Yeah, because a lot of the journey that she went on is straight from that time in Ventress's life. And the selfish part of me wants them to do dark disciple.
00:39:17
Speaker
as the first half of whatever series and then follow from there. They're not going to do that. But that's what I would love to see. I mean, why not? If we're celebrating Ventress, you know, you talk about the Book of Boba Fett, let's get the vindication of Ventress. Yeah. The series, not the vindication of Ventress.
00:39:36
Speaker
I think that that's a good idea, though, because if you think about it and we talked about it, the path seems to be something that they're really setting up within Star Wars. So what if they did a Ventress and Quinlan Voss series where the first half or the first few episodes is Dark Disciple, and then as it goes on, they're showing like Quinlan Voss and Ventress, you know, and the path, you know, that would be really cool if they like
00:40:01
Speaker
did their own little retcon or recontextualized it where it's like in that series they show that just before Ventress was headed off to go find the bad batch that she was in contact with Quinlan Voss. I almost said quantact with Quinlan Voss.
00:40:21
Speaker
But, you know, it'd be cool to just see like Quinlan Vos was always part of it. Maybe maybe they were there. You know, Quinlan Vos was like, no, you got to go back because we need to bring them to the path. You can't just say, hey, something's coming, but I'm out. You know, like that would be interesting conversation to see. For sure. And then stepmom and dad will pull up together and be like, come on, Omega. Like, yes.
00:40:44
Speaker
We're your new we're your new family now because your brothers died, unfortunately, in the finale was fuck. Yeah. But I wanted to speak about some of the connections. We've talked a lot about Ventress's connections with, like I mentioned, with an Inquisitor. You had made a joke about Ahsoka coming into it.
00:41:04
Speaker
I've talked a lot about Ventress being the foil to Ahsoka and I had saw on Twitter like direct shots of comparing Ventress's taming the sea monster with Ahsoka like reaching out into the force of the Pergo. Yeah. Yeah. And I didn't realize how similar those scenes were. True.
00:41:28
Speaker
I would really love to see I'm going to be a brat and say animated Ahsoka and Ventress working together again at some point in this era. Yeah, because I love their that's another cool dynamic, too, which I guess Ahsoka is kind of well, she's hopeful. She gets her hope back. Yeah. So it'd be nice to see them together.
00:41:53
Speaker
Yeah and I feel like there is a little pocket there that like in between Tales of the Jedi slash Ahsoka novel and Rebels that there's like Ahsoka was clearly doing some sort of rebellion activities and that could easily be. That we still have yet to see other than the beginning in Tales of the
Parallels and Interactions: Ventress and Ahsoka
00:42:13
Speaker
Jedi.
00:42:13
Speaker
Exactly. So who's to say that she can't be involved in the path, especially if it's like after Obi-Wan's already went back, because I feel like if Obi-Wan and Ahsoka were involved at the same time, there would have been some sort of reunion. So there's like a perfect gap where it's like,
00:42:31
Speaker
they could easily have them together, maybe even have their own story where it's like showing that they're kind of opposites that you can yang. Imagine if Ahsoka is the one that gets Voss and Ventress back in contact with each other. Oh, shit. It's crazy, too, to think that Ahsoka, like there's no way she wouldn't be involved with the path or help them. Like, never. There's no way. She couldn't resist that calling.
00:42:57
Speaker
right because the path is like clearly going to become the rebellion or it's one of the cells and it's probably like the biggest cell of the rebellion but it's all gonna come together like i i can't imagine a world where
00:43:12
Speaker
the Jedi video games aren't going to tie into the rebellion eventually and like seeing those characters involved in those stories, you know, so I don't know. I think I think they got something going here. They're cooking right now with this era in between the prequels and the originals.
00:43:33
Speaker
Yeah, I agree. And I know some people are like, we're getting fatigued of the dark times, but I'm like, there's so much cool storytelling that you can tell. We're getting the High Republic now with the Acolyte. So that era is being ushered in by that show. And I mean, there is Young Jedi Adventures, which I have not watched, but like that's also a show. So I'm like, yeah.
00:43:54
Speaker
If anything, how many original trilogy like timeframe? I mean, I guess this kind of you could say original trilogy, but like rebels, I feel like is the tail end of like the dark times going into the original trilogy. We have resistance to I guess we've gotten a lot of shows kind of in this era, but.
00:44:13
Speaker
I'm not going to complain.
Impact of 'Bad Batch' on Star Wars Narrative
00:44:15
Speaker
They're able to do interesting things with it and keep doing new things. And as long as they do that and don't just keep telling the same story or leading to the same goal, I think it's fine. I think a story about Ventress in this time period would be a unique perspective that we haven't gotten yet. You know, we've gotten people's like
00:44:34
Speaker
you know journey into the rebellion and how they got into it we see people working against the rebellion we don't really I don't think there's any characters that have like gone on a redemption arc that are like that we can really follow into the rebellion
00:44:49
Speaker
timeline is there yeah i mean there might be but something that i was just thinking of is the fact that all these characters like people complain about the clone wars like just continuing continuing with those characters and those stories but if you think about it there were so many new characters brought into the clone wars
00:45:06
Speaker
that just were in the Clone Wars and they never appear outside of it. So I like that they continue telling stories with these characters and weaving them into what came before with the live action movies and with live action shows as well, because so many of these characters, like everyone's like, where's Ahsoka during the original trilogy? Now, where's Ventress during the original trilogy? Like where are they doing the sequel trilogy?
00:45:35
Speaker
Yeah, Tana lore. I don't think it's a horrible idea that they're literally weaving them into these stories. Yeah, absolutely. I think they're doing unique things and it's interesting to watch. It's interesting to follow. You know, like I don't like the Kenobi series really at all, but I think the path is like one of the most interesting things from that series. Like in a vacuum, I'm able to appreciate the path for sure what that does and what that brings to the story. So
00:46:05
Speaker
I don't know. I think this episode, this episode of the Bad Batch, I can't say it was like my favorite of the season, but I think that what it's leading to is fantastic. And I think that in a few years, when we look back at like everything that sprung from this episode, I think it's going to be really easy to look back and be like, damn.
00:46:26
Speaker
Fuck yeah. Well, this is a good episode. And like I mentioned at the beginning, like it just ties into so many themes of Star Wars, especially like with the force.
Omega's Potential: Force Abilities and Jedi Path?
00:46:36
Speaker
Like people were even comparing the shots of Ventress training Omega to like Luke training Rey on Octo, like and whether or not that was a clear thing that they were trying to do, which I kind of think it was. Yeah. Oh, like the parallels are great.
00:46:52
Speaker
And even to like Luke's hero's journey where he starts off as that whiny kid, he's like complaining to Obi-Wan, I can't leave. I can't go off into an adventure. And then in the Empire Strikes Back when he's like, you know, there's the scene where Yoda is standing on Luke's foot. It's he's like doing a handstand and moving boulders and they fall and he's like, I just can't do it. This is dumb. I got to go save my friends.
00:47:15
Speaker
And, you know, then Yoda has that moment where he lifts the X wing out of the water. Ventress kind of has that same moment with Omega who complains throughout the entire episode like this is dumb. Why do I have to stand on this rock? It's slippery. What am I even reaching out to feel like?
00:47:32
Speaker
This doesn't make any sense. You don't even like probably even know what you're talking about. And then she has her big kind of force moment and that epiphany and that light goes off and the person who's doubting her, which is Omega, just like Luke being like, no, just like Han Solo says, it's all real. Yeah. Yeah. Love it. It definitely is all connected. I mean, like,
00:47:57
Speaker
The fact that they're able to incorporate the Bad Batch into Palpatine's plans and then Palpatine's plans from the Rise of Skywalker making its way all the way to this era before even the original trilogy. But then it makes me worried about Omega because it's like, well, how can she exist as a Force-sensitive clone?
00:48:16
Speaker
And not, you know, just be hunted the entire time or not be killed before. That's why they have to tell a story. Yeah. Yeah. And we only have a few more episodes left. I'm scared. I'm scared. But.
00:48:32
Speaker
you know i think i think omega i think omega's feature is she's going to be a jedi i know she didn't really do well with the tests but you know what's interesting that i thought of is that omega ventures talks about how the third test you know reaching out to animals connecting with animals that are like have the same force energy that was one of the tests and
00:48:58
Speaker
You know, with the second one, the second test, Omega uses Batcher to complete it and shows that connection that she has with Batcher and, you know, other animals that we've seen her, you know, it's a big thing with Ezra too, is the connection with like nature and animals. Exactly. And so I think that even though she like technically failed two out of three tests, I think that.
00:49:23
Speaker
That's how Ventress was able to figure out like, okay, she's got a connection. She's connecting with animals. Because if you like, there's that scene where when Omega and Ventress come back together and Ventress is like, I'm sure they told you everything about me. Why'd you come back? There is that moment where she's like, no distractions. And then they like show a pretty long shot of Batcher and then Ventress. I think it's like Ventress realizing like, oh,
00:49:49
Speaker
She has that connection. Yeah, because she doesn't she doesn't tell Omega like like batchers a distraction. So I said none. And that's another thing. Omega, unfortunately, when it comes to her force potential and Ventress kind of alludes to this, too, like Omega is always going to pick the batch. So she's always going to be distracted.
Core Themes: Ventress' Balanced Force Use
00:50:10
Speaker
Yeah, by like distracted from reaching into the force. And unfortunately, as Ventra says, she's always going to choose the batch. She's not not going to choose them at the end of the day. So the only way I feel like she can open up to the force is losing the loss of the batch, which is crazy to think about the fact that they could be hindering her potential.
00:50:37
Speaker
But I don't think it's to their fault. It's not something that I think they're actively doing. It's just kind of that. That's it's not her focus, right? She's focused on them and what they're doing.
00:50:50
Speaker
Yeah, and I can definitely see that being the case. I could also see them taking kind of the rebels route where it's like being trained by an unconventional Jedi, you know, if she's trained by Ventress or Quinlan Vos, you know, like being able to still keep those attachments, but in a healthy way where it's not going to hold her back, but it's actually going to push her forward. Exactly. Because I think that like for Ezra, like his connection to Sabine or Sabine's connection to Ezra, you know,
00:51:20
Speaker
They always talk about how connections will hold you back and things like that. But we keep seeing these examples of characters that are doing great prospering and have families and connections. So I don't know. I think that
00:51:36
Speaker
I think it's going to be the wake up call. Yeah, that could be the wake up call if something were to happen to the batch for Omega to be like I need to I don't want to say stronger because that's like an Anakin thing like I need to be stronger to protect you but more of like I want to be able to protect y'all like you protect me.
00:51:53
Speaker
Yes, yes. So if that means I have to go away and train for a little bit so I can be better to make sure that y'all are good and we can help each other. Mm hmm. I see exactly what you're talking about. And I know I always bitch about stupid Canaan, but yes, you know, me love Canaan. So he did prove that, you know, you're able to have these attachments in a healthy way and it not get possessive. Yeah, yeah. So I I definitely don't want to see them go back on it. And I mean, like,
00:52:23
Speaker
Like with Grogu, for example, I don't think that he's just not going to ever be a Jedi or ever, you know, do those, do Jedi acts, even though he's still connected to Din Djarin. No matter what Luke Skywalker said about, you have to choose one or the other. No, I think that Star Wars is moving in a direction where it's like,
00:52:43
Speaker
No, maybe the Jedi were kind of wrong about that one. Well, it's not so binary. And even Ventress, she's like, I'm not a Jedi. I'm not Sith. I'm not your enemy. She's just a Force user. And this feels so like...
00:53:02
Speaker
All I can think of is woke, but I'm just like, don't you don't want to be a Jedi? Just be a force user. Like, you don't need that label. Like, just like feel the way that you feel within the force and like, let it flow through you and reach out into it. Progressive. There you go. Somebody's going to be like, oh, then on binary people being like, just be a force user. You don't have to choose one or the other.
00:53:32
Speaker
It's not binary. I love it. I love it. That's exactly who we would be in the Star Wars universe. That's labels. What do you mean? That's who I am in our universe. But I'd be like Ventress. That's why I always talk about relating to the character so much. I have my dark side. I have
00:53:54
Speaker
I have my darker side and I have my lighter side and I have to work with them together. Well, that's what it comes down to.
00:54:04
Speaker
There you go. Balance. Balance. Just like Ventress. Yes.
Concluding Thoughts: Ventress' Future in Star Wars
00:54:10
Speaker
Well, Scotty, was there anything else you wanted to say about this episode before we head out? The only thing that I want to bring up that I feel like we haven't touched on is just the fact that how involved they've made Nika Futterman, Ventress's voice actress. So at the end of the day, it's like the big cherry on top that, yeah, we're getting more animated Ventress.
00:54:30
Speaker
Like they say that we're going to be told her story in other media, but it's clearly going to be something with Nika Futterman voicing the character. And I don't imagine she'll be voicing her in live action. So it could be Tales of the Jedi, but I'm still on team. Please just do a Ventress scene or Ventress series.
00:54:55
Speaker
Yeah, I've seen a lot of people. I've seen a lot of people talking about, oh, they're definitely doing her for Tales of the Jedi. And I've been like, have you all not listened to me complain for like years to give us Dark Disciple and Tales of the Jedi? Because by the end of it, Ventress is like a fucking light side for Caesar at the end of the day. It's kind of her her becoming.
00:55:16
Speaker
a Jedi or becoming a redeeming herself at the end of the day. Yeah. But I'm like, no, just yeah, just give it in its own series. Yeah, because I don't think tells the Jedi is big enough, long enough, like because not to tell all that episodes. Yeah. And like you said, in order for them to show us the aftermath, they need to show us what happened in Dark Disciple for the people that aren't going to read that book.
00:55:42
Speaker
And so what you should, if you haven't read Dark Disciple, you're doing a disservice to yourself. Absolutely. And it would be a huge disservice to condense all that into three episodes. I mean, look at what they did trying with the Ahsoka novel to take to condense that whole novel into one episode. Yeah, it just changed everything. Right. Hated it. Yeah. Mm hmm. Yeah, it wasn't horrible.
00:56:15
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. So yeah, in my opinion, just do a whole venture series. I don't think, uh, the way seekers are opposed to that one. So yes.
00:56:36
Speaker
Yes, exactly. Well, Scotty, it's time to move on from Ventress. We no longer have to hear you complaining about her moving, not being in the episode. Yes. So on that note, why don't you send us out of here?
00:57:06
Speaker
She is risen.