Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Federal Furniture: The Big 3 and Phyfe. Season 2, Episode 16.
43 Plays3 years ago
Hepplewhite, Sheraton, and Phyfe. How did these heavy-hitters shape the Federal period? Tune in and find out.
Affiliate Links:
10% off of Vesting USA finishing products:
Use AMERICANCRAFTSMAN at https://rpmcoatingsolutions.com/
10% off your order from Montana Brand Tools:
https://www.montanabrandtools.com/discount/AMERICANCRAFTSMAN
Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
Inspired and guided by the ideals of the Arts and Crafts movement, we believe in the use of traditional craftsmanship and simple, well-proportioned forms; sustainability and ethical practices; and importantly, taking pleasure in our work as craftsmen to create quality pieces of enduring value.
Follow us!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/greene_st_joinery Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/greenestreetjoinery
Support us on Patreon!
https://www.patreon.com/Greene_st_joinery
Visit Us at https://www.greenestreetjoinery.com/
Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-american-craftsman-podcast/donations
Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands
Recommended
Transcript
Partnership with Montana Brand Tools
00:00:21
Speaker
Green Street Joinery and the American Craftsmen Podcast are proud to partner with Montana Brand Tools. Montana Brand Tools are manufactured by Rocky Mountain Twist in Montana, USA. With numerous patents dating back to the invention of the hex shank system by our founders, we strive to produce accessories that add precision, flexibility, and efficiency to your toolkit.
00:00:41
Speaker
In addition to woodworking tools, we produce many high-quality cutting tools that are used by the aerospace, medical, automotive, and industrial markets. Our end product has a fit and finish that is beyond comparison. Montana Brand tools are guaranteed for life to be free of defects in material and workmanship because we build these tools with pride and determination. For 10% off your order, visit montanabrandtools.com and use the coupon code AmericanCraftsman.
Introduction to Episode 16
00:01:06
Speaker
Welcome back. American Craftsman. Yeah. I guess that's what we call you. Listeners. Here we are. Episode 16. American Craftsmanites. Craftsmanites. I like it. Yeah. Here we are talking about federal furniture. Yeah. I almost said empire. No, not quite. In another couple of weeks. Yeah.
00:01:34
Speaker
Well, we'll know in quite some time.
The 'Big Three' of Federal Furniture
00:01:38
Speaker
Now we're going to talk about a couple of the most influential designers and a couple of builders of federal furniture.
00:01:50
Speaker
Big three, we call. It's like Metallica, Megadeth, Anthrax. Exactly. Wait, no. Was it Slayer? I think it was Slayer. Yeah, the big four. I guess so. Big three. Sheridan. Couple white. Fife. Not Chippendale. No.
00:02:19
Speaker
Why did I put that? One of the big three, yeah, including Chip. Oh, of the 18th century. One of the big three English furniture makers of the 18th century. We got Sheridan, Heppalwhite, and Chippendale. So those are the big names of the 1700s. But if we get specifically to the federal period, we have to leave Chippendale behind.
00:02:47
Speaker
Yeah, because Fife was, well, and those are English. Yeah. And Fife was. Well, he was English, but he was living here. He was a New Yorker. According to Wikipedia, there are no pieces. I've heard a lot of arguments start like that. According to Wikipedia, there are no pieces of furniture made directly by Hepplewhite or his firm known to exist.
00:03:16
Speaker
Yeah, so that's interesting, isn't it? However, he gave his name to a distinctive style of light, elegant furniture, and reproductions have continued for centuries up to this day.
Hepplewhite's Legacy and Designs
00:03:29
Speaker
So how can Hepplewhite have managed to have such influence? How could he be considered one of the big three furniture makers of the 18th century? You better take that call.
00:03:44
Speaker
I have no idea. There's probably going about. You're a lot of warranty.
00:03:51
Speaker
So how can Applewhite have managed to have had such influence? Well, we bring it bring it straight back to his cabinet maker and upholsterer's guide. And luckily for him, I guess he's dead. So it's it's published posthumously by his wife in 1788. So
00:04:17
Speaker
he probably couldn't have fathomed that he would be so influential what was up with first name george i believe george i believe it was george. I'm not positive i think was george.
00:04:33
Speaker
As you can see, I just started calling him Hepplewhite. And let me tell you, typing Hepplewhite in and of itself was surprisingly hard. I'm not a big fan of the name. And one characteristic that's seen in many of Hepplewhite's designs is a shield-shaped back chair where an expansive shield appeared in place of a narrower splat.
00:05:00
Speaker
Now you want to click on that link. Let's see what we got. Let's see how good my my links are. There it is. Yeah. This one's been waiting.
00:05:14
Speaker
That's pretty nice. Looks like it's got those straight legs. The picture doesn't show at all. I'm trying to scroll to see the legs. It's the way the photos cropped. But it looks like some pretty intricate carving.
00:05:34
Speaker
in that back I mean it's small yeah it's almost almost has like a harp kind of thing going on I think that's the lyre okay yeah yeah oh yeah lyre is kind of more like a small harp yeah I guess I was thinking of a loot okay yes yeah that's what I was
00:05:54
Speaker
mistaken for in the last episode. I guess that's that inset piece. The splat is probably carved separately and then placed into that frame. That's some nice work. I mean, look at all those thin little pieces. Yeah. They had those nice carbide tools back then.
00:06:22
Speaker
That boy used to just throw it on the CNC. Yeah. And he'll cut it out. He come back. It's done. That looks like well, we know from last episode they favored mahogany. Certainly has that look. Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty rich. What else we got here? This is from his book. Yeah.
00:06:51
Speaker
Hmm, nice sketches. Yeah, so this is basically, not basically, this is what comes out of the book. I had to search quite a bit to be able to actually download some of these links because they were copyright protected. Shh, don't tell anybody.
00:07:14
Speaker
But I wanted to be able to show some of the actual drawings from his book. Yeah, look at this urn with these feathers coming out of it.
00:07:30
Speaker
Yeah, there's that the famous shield shaped back on the left. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not digging that. No, I don't like it either. And I don't like the way the back legs are curved and the way they relate to the front legs either. Yeah. London published.
00:07:52
Speaker
1787 by I and J Taylor, number 56 high, old horn. This one's got some, looks like little carvings in the front legs. Yeah. I like the shape of the back of this. Not really feeling this urn splat. No, it doesn't look very comfortable either.
00:08:19
Speaker
No, I don't know if this is caned or what. Little too early, I think, for caning. No, no, no. Caning came out. Yeah, it was a long time before this, but it doesn't look very well padded, does it? No. But he's definitely portraying some sort of texture there. Yeah. So this is this is what you'd get. So let's say we had our shop
00:08:52
Speaker
This is what we'd be working from. Yeah. And this is just broken down into sections, not dimensions. And that top view kind of shows the curve on the sides.
00:09:10
Speaker
That's a nice piece. Got a nice shape to it. Looks like he's using quarter white oak over here. Yeah, yeah. Kind of a napkin sketch almost, wouldn't you say? Yeah. It's interesting. What are these details that they're showing? These are how the drawers are divided up? It looks like it. I mean, that's definitely showing the curve, which doesn't look like it'd be easy to make.
00:09:40
Speaker
So this looks like it has another door inside of it. Yeah, with a hinge top, right? And this divided up maybe for, you know, lipped in tea bags. There you go. K-cups. That's where they put the K-cups.
00:10:02
Speaker
Oh, it's a pretty it. I don't think the drawings do it justice. It looks similar in design to some of the pieces we viewed last episode. Yeah. The perspective and everything. Not great drawings. I don't know. I think you don't think that's good. Well. I don't know.
00:10:34
Speaker
It's all right. It's all right. It's hard to I mean, there's a lot there are a lot of curved surfaces to try and display. So yeah, I don't want to be that critical. I mean, I couldn't draw something in perspective with all of those and and display all of those radius surfaces. So it's pretty good.
00:11:01
Speaker
You don't see the back legs there. Yeah, I think I don't know. There's something about perspective drawings that just look always look weird. Yes. Yeah, you could see he picked a vanishing point, you know, some way. Yeah, right. It probably would look worse if you picked one that wasn't, you know, centered. Maybe it could have included a couple more.
00:11:31
Speaker
And views this is a hepple I made by the Seymour's Oh So this is one of his designs I noticed this motif and the other ones with this little band around. Yeah, yeah Stone top. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's epoxy That's total boat
00:11:59
Speaker
Oh, wow. The little key to scutcheon is an iron. Yeah, some marquetry. Really, really nice. The Roman OG, I feel like is just so prevalent in this period. Oh, yeah.
00:12:18
Speaker
Um, the drawer face. I mean, just a beautiful piece of wood. Looks like it's got some pegs. Yeah. This is, you know, tenon into the, into the leg. I can as the apron on the drawer front. Is that some inlay there? A little string inlay. All the way down. Yeah.
Duncan Phyfe's Influence in America
00:12:41
Speaker
Another contrasting. Same thing on the side.
00:12:51
Speaker
A little bit of inlay. I mean, this definitely looks like mahogany. Yep. Little breadboard here. You have established cabinet makers building from the Hepplewhite sketchbook, which is pretty cool. Yeah.
00:13:12
Speaker
Um, it shows how influential he really was and how popular his designs were for sure, because it'd be like, uh, you know, somebody coming to us and say, Hey, can you do that for us?
00:13:36
Speaker
Very little is known about Hepplewhite himself. Some established sources list no birth information. However, George Hepplewhite was born in 1727 in Brighton County, Durham, England. And according to some sources, he served his apprenticeship with Gillows in Lancaster. But the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography is skeptical about this.
00:14:04
Speaker
He was also a member of the London Society of Cabinet Makers. So, Hepplewhite, he based himself in London, where he opened a shop and died in 1786. So, I mean, if the birth date's correct... Yeah.
00:14:24
Speaker
61 not a long life I guess for that time it was but yeah I'm 59 so I wonder what a religion he was because you know they were the main record keepers mm-hmm that's right see like the Puritans they got records going back to the 1500s of everybody
00:14:45
Speaker
And when I was looking for my own records, that was the place I found my first written record was when I found the church I was baptized in. They had my records there.
00:15:01
Speaker
I called the place I got my knee surgery in like two thousand and five. They're like, yeah, no, we don't have that. It's just like on a computer somewhere. Like, come on. Nobody saves anything except the church. It was funny, too, because they said, well, hang on just a second. I came back to the phone. They didn't even put me on hold. Like, yeah, it's in the 1961 file cabinet. Yeah.
00:15:32
Speaker
So he, he dies in 1786 and the business continued by his widow, Alice. So she must've, you know, needed
00:15:46
Speaker
to do this to survive. And in 1788, she has the wherewithal to publish a book with 300 of George's designs. It's a lot of designs. I mean, think about it. It's it's the precedent was said, I suppose, by Chippendale.
00:16:13
Speaker
uh, you know, some 30 odd years earlier. So Alice is here thinking, man, I gotta put some food on the table. George left me with a bunch of tools that I can't use. Uh, what am I going to do? He was quite the go-getter. She stole Chippendale's idea.
00:16:34
Speaker
Yeah, so 1788 she publishes the book 300 designs with a with an eerily similar title. Cabinet maker and upholsterer's guide. Which the Chippendale shop was the cabinet and upholstery warehouse. Yes, yes.
00:16:57
Speaker
I don't know how I feel about Alice. Yeah, Alice. Alice to the moon. I don't think I like her. So, but you published another edition in 89 and a third in 1990. Yeah. She's like a college textbook publisher. Yes.
00:17:12
Speaker
It's not until a year after George's death that his designs start to receive recognition. Well, some have attempted to attribute the furniture design to his wife, Alice.
Sheraton's Design Impact
00:17:25
Speaker
There's no evidence that she was the original creative force behind the work beyond her publication of the reference guide after his death. So there's a movement. Saying that she was the actual designer. Yeah, she did all the work.
00:17:44
Speaker
Here we go. With contemporaries such as Thomas Chippendale producing pieces in a variety of styles, Hepplewhite's famed style is more easily identifiable. Hepplewhite produced designs that were slender, more curvilinear in shape, and well-balanced. There are some characteristics that hint at a Hepplewhite design, such as shorter, more curved chair arms, straight legs, shield-shaped chair backs, all without carving.
00:18:15
Speaker
That was an uncomfortable sentence. The design would receive ornamentation from paint and inlays used on the piece. I wouldn't have imagined that. Yeah, because the, although they're not actual hippo whites, the hippo white inspired stuff we saw was pretty heavily carved. And the painting, I mean, unless some of those little details were painted on like the black stripes and things like that.
00:18:42
Speaker
look here's Mac again trying to correct some yeah of designs of the day what what what do you see wrong there wants to change the off because that makes sense yeah designs off the day well this book
00:19:00
Speaker
Georges, or I should say Alice's, influenced cabinet makers and furniture companies for several generations, which in turn influenced, you know, people like, well, our predecessors, you know, and then eventually people like us. So thanks to Alice. We're here today. Yeah, you could say that.
00:19:34
Speaker
Heppewite style often overlaps with that of British designer Thomas Sheridan, whose 1791 guidebook, like Heppewites, documented popular furniture designs of the day. So, Sheridan's sitting around in his shop,
00:19:52
Speaker
He sees what Chippendale Chippendale's done. Well, that's early on in his life, probably. He's saying this bitch, Alice Hepaways over here. Yeah. 78, 79. Or I should say, what was it? It was. 80. Yeah, no, it was 86. 78, 89 and 90.
00:20:18
Speaker
So the very next year after his third edition, Sheraton gets on his horse. You want some of that apple white money?
00:20:35
Speaker
The slightly older Hepplewhite style tends to be more ornate, with substantial carving and curvilinear shapes, as I already noted, in comparison to Sheraton's style. Considered city furniture, Hepplewhite was especially popular in early American states along the eastern seaboard, from New England to the Carolinas.
00:20:58
Speaker
And there's some sort of awkward sense there where I must have cut and pasted. Oh, I see woods used. It's just your segue. Yeah, woods used in heplite style pieces.
00:21:12
Speaker
Oh, so we're still talking about hepplewhite. I don't know why I had that aside for Sheridan. We'll give him his due soon enough. We're team Sheridan. We are team Sheridan, yeah.
Adaptation of Hepplewhite's Designs
00:21:26
Speaker
So as hepplewhite furniture is characterized by contrasting veneers and inlays depicting seashells or bell flowers, pieces often contain more than one type of wood.
00:21:37
Speaker
For the vase, mahogany was most often the word of choice. But satin wood and maple were also popular. So heplites using mahogany. I don't know if I've ever really seen satin wood. Is it light like maple? I think maybe that real yellow wood that we saw might have been satin wood. I think it has that sort of yellow color to it. Satin wood.
00:22:03
Speaker
Yeah. Other woods include sycamore, which I've heard is very difficult to work with. Oh. Yeah. That's an interesting figure, that's for sure. Yeah. Looks a little bit like a lacewood, but very yellow. Hmm. There's also tawny satinwood. There's satinwood and rosewood.
00:22:33
Speaker
Well, that's a nice combination. That's in stock. 1870 is $5,200. That's cheap. I know. It's embarrassing, isn't it? Couldn't make it for four times that. He's got a cameo in it with freaking painting all gilded.
00:22:59
Speaker
Geez, 1870s, that's what, that's an empire. Yeah, well, probably late empire, yeah. So, Applewhite, he's using contrasting veneers, mahogany, did use some satin wood and maple as his base woods. He likes sycamore, tulip wood, birch, and rosewood.
00:23:23
Speaker
because they like to use the local woods at hand. American versions of heppewites designs can be made of ash or pine as well. I wouldn't like to see that. Been using pine since before it was cool.
00:23:41
Speaker
peple white legs and feet. In contrast to the popular curve in Cabrio legs of the earlier styles such as Queen Anne and Chippendale, peple white pieces usually have straight legs. They can be square or tapered. I really like the tapered leg and often have reeded or fluted edges.
00:24:03
Speaker
That's what we were noting in the last couple of pictures. They were designed to imitate classical columns of Greek and Roman architecture. Some chairs and sofas have H-stretchers, which are reinforcing pieces of wood that connect the legs to form the shape of an H. Yes, I didn't think I needed to add that in. Yeah, classical columns. It's like the Doric on the outskirts of Hoboken.
00:24:30
Speaker
Yeah, the dork building. When I heard of that apartment building, it's pretty exclusive. Yeah, the dork with the two big dork columns. Yeah, this is different colored bricks. Complementing the plain, straight legs of a chair or table, peppa white style feet are usually simple. They usually take the shape of a rectangular spade foot or a tapered arrow foot.
00:24:57
Speaker
Bracket feet, however, more common on larger, heavier case pieces such as chests, desks, bookcases, that kind of thing. Yeah. So those must have been spade feet that we were looking at in the, I think that was the first episode on the, um, uh, that was, was that the Seymour that had that? Um, I think so. Yeah. Yeah.
00:25:25
Speaker
So other characteristics of Applewhite stuff. It's plain legs, simple feet, graceful, delicate appearance, especially light in comparison to Queen Anne and Chippendale styles. You know, I didn't really get that, like, especially light, especially the chairs. A little bit lighter, but not, I mean, like the carvings or, I don't know, maybe a little bit less.
00:25:54
Speaker
I think the backs of the chairs, there's so much less material in the backs of the chairs. I think that's part of it. But the casework is the casework. I mean, I do like how it's sort of set up there on a little bit daintier legs. It kind of lightens the appearance. A little less Jacobean. Yeah.
00:26:24
Speaker
Um, pieces are embellished with small carvings or painted designs. Again, we haven't really, uh, had any, um, pictures of those along with intricate inlaid patterns and veneers. Yes. We've seen that often in woods of contrasting colors known as market. More quick try walk with try.
00:26:49
Speaker
Well, what else we got here for Hepplewhite stuff? This is how we can identify Hepplewhite. Common decorative motifs include graceful swags, curling ribbons and feathers, classical urns and trees. Yeah, we saw the feathers and urn on the chair drawing. Mm-hmm.
00:27:09
Speaker
Uh, and again, it's reflecting the popularity of the neoclassical styles during this period. Um, helpful. I introduced Tambor's into furniture design. Uh, we know now, you know, like any, like a, you'd see it in a roll top desk. Yeah. Everybody wants it. Nobody wants to pay for it.
00:27:35
Speaker
Um, you know, we can make it, uh, you can, and they, of course you can buy it nowadays depending on the species, but they had to do it all by hand. They'd cut narrow vertical strips and glue it to a heavy cloth like canvas. Um, but the cool thing about doing it that way is you could really, you know,
00:27:59
Speaker
match the grain. You can put it back together, so to speak. Yep. Or you don't get that in stuff that you would buy. I've always wanted to do that, like do a nice tambour where it was made by hand on the claw with continuous grain. Yeah. Yeah. I've seen some guys. I haven't seen the process of them making it, but seeing the finished product and yeah.
00:28:28
Speaker
And I did know here it's similar to the elements used on the later roll top desk. They used it to, you know, hide their writing supplies, cubby holes and things like that. Because these pieces, when everything was closed up, it was it was neat. It's not like today's desk where you got here. When you closed up shop, everything was inside your desk.
00:28:54
Speaker
And of course, you know, you had less stuff. There was no, uh, uh, Post-its and all this other junk that we all have now staplers. Apple white pieces have simple geometric shapes. Um, if it's curved, it's circular, uh, the sofa and armchairs, they curve outward, uh, and the seats have rounded fronts.
00:29:20
Speaker
if sheep sheep chair backs are shaped like ovals or shields and the shield back chair is probably the best known of all hepa white styles we've we've seen several examples of that yeah he's losing that's where hepa white loses me yeah we're not big fans of that shield are we
00:29:44
Speaker
He's credited with popularizing the sideboard and the short chest of drawers. All right. Cheers to Hepa White. The designs for these pieces typically feature serpentine or bow front shaped. Oh, I've lost it now. Bow shaped fronts. The lunch setting in. Yes. These were new forms of furniture in his day, according to American Furniture by Jonathan L Fairbanks.
00:30:13
Speaker
that's a reader you should you should pick that one up it's a page turner American furniture 1620 to present yeah so I'll get that on audible let's take a look at the Apple Apple white sideboard all right yes a little bit more understated than a
00:30:36
Speaker
Some of the others. Yeah, it looks like a solid top, right? Or is it? I don't know. Maybe some veneer work on the edge. We've got a knot right there. Very simple legs. Yeah. Slight taper. Just a slight taper on those. Sort of like a round, round over kind of deal on the bottom. Yep.
00:31:09
Speaker
Does have that bowed front that they were talking about. Um, not sure how I feel about big drawer over little drawer. Yeah. That's, that's a good point. Especially when on the sides it's reversed. Right. And these are like, looks like the same height as this. Yeah. You got your, your thin drawer over a door. It's weird. Yeah. Hepplewhite. He's, I do like the shape of the top.
00:31:35
Speaker
This must have been one of Alice's designs. So I guess, I mean technically this isn't a hepplewhite. He didn't build it. I guess it's his design. These are all hepplewhite designs and they're going to be interpretations too. Right, because you know who's following it. We go online and buy our plans to build all the stuff that we built.
00:32:06
Speaker
Yeah, you can see the plans are kind of rudimentary. It's not like a set of measured drawings. It's a drawing, a picture. Right. And this is, I got an, I won't say argument about this with my wife.
00:32:21
Speaker
when we're talking about Nick Disbro, she's like, oh, I wonder if if any of his plans are like they didn't have plans back then like they might have had like shop drawings, but it's not like today where where, you know, you can go buy the Wood Whisperer plans. And I says, all right, step one, cut these boards to this size and then, you know, blah, blah, blah. No, that you you got the you got this right. OK, now build it. Right. Exactly.
00:32:50
Speaker
which is kind of what we do, except we're making the drawing to write. So we do have the luxury of deconstructing it. But typically we we we design from the outside in and then figure out how to then we build from the inside out, redraw it from the inside out. Yeah. I don't even do that.
00:33:17
Speaker
It's like, OK, this we'll call that 60 wide and 18 deep. We'll just go from there. Yeah. So that's a nice piece. Yeah. Applewhite style sideboard. Let's check this out. Hmm. I like that better. Yeah. Much more rectangular, rectilinear. And I would not have picked that out as being a Applewhite. No.
00:33:49
Speaker
See the inlays on the edges? Yeah, yeah. Little flowers or something there. Yeah, or those little quarter fans or whatever they call them. Yeah. Straight legs, little string inlay.
00:34:03
Speaker
or inlay here. I'd like to see the tools that they were using for all this veneer work, producing the veneers and doing all of this marketry. Yeah. I guess they had fret saws. I don't know. Yeah. I tried, you know, in Duncan five has a very famous toolbox and I tried getting pictures of like the contents of it.
00:34:29
Speaker
And you see a lot of saws and things like that, but nothing to display like a full array of his tools. Right. It's a nice piece. What do you think of that hardware that keeps appearing on this stuff? These big round. Yeah, not my favorite. No, they kind of have like an Asian look to me.
00:34:55
Speaker
I mean, Chippendale did was influenced heavily by Chinese furniture. That's true. It could be bleeding, bleeding over from that. That's right. I mean, these guys didn't exist in a vacuum. Chippendale was wildly popular. His book and successful. Yeah. So, you know, that these guys definitely had copies of Chippendale's book. It's like now everybody's a copycat.
00:35:25
Speaker
And did this say by Seymour? Uh, no. Heppewite wardrobe. It's a, I think. Wow. Uh, it just says wardrobe. So it's a Heppewite wardrobe. The Lion, the Witch and the Heppewite wardrobe. This is nice. Yeah. This reminds me a little bit of, um, some of that later colonial stuff. How do you like how the grain comes off the doors into the styles and rails?
00:35:56
Speaker
From down here in these drawers, yeah. And the panels. Look how it radiates out. Mm-hmm. Yeah. In some nice raised panels. Almost like a sunburst effect. Mm-hmm. This is all quadruple book match up here, it looks like. Yeah. So that's interesting. That must be veneers on the rails and styles to get the grain going that direction, huh?
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know. I mean, you're not seeing any, like, cathedral on these, so it's... Looks like it's going sideways. Yeah, I don't know. Hmm. Yeah, and look at the drawers. Yeah, I mean, this has got to be at least 36 inches wide, no? Yeah, yeah.
00:36:52
Speaker
seeing bracket feet on this one, like a little pedestal bracket feet. Almost looks like a chest on chest or a cabinet on chest or something. Yeah. That's some interesting like radius here. Mm hmm. It's a guess, but that or there's like a transitional molding here. That's possible, too.
00:37:18
Speaker
Yeah, I like that piece. I like the wood. Yeah, I really have some painted sort of frieze up here. Yeah, yeah. A little stubby crown. Yeah, the top is a little small by today's standards, I would say, right? Yeah, you throw like a seven inch cove up there. No. I saw a tile guy that I know, a local guy posted some pictures of, you know, doing backsplash in a kitchen and like
00:37:48
Speaker
I have one just comment on it, like who designed this kitchen? It's like there's a single like 12 inch wide upper. Oh no. And then like an open corner with two L-shaped floating shelves, same depth as the thing, like tucked into this like crammed in the corner, you know, with another run of uppers. And there's like a seven inch cove on it. It's like this huge hat on this tiny little cabinet. This looks so bad. Oh my god.
00:38:19
Speaker
And the thing is, the guy who put it up might have thought it looked ridiculous, too. But, you know, the people go, I want all the storage I can. Can you put something here? He's going to say, you know, it's going to look silly up there by itself. No, I want it. No, the sad part is I'm sure the person who designed the kitchen thought it looked great.
The Seymour's Craftsmanship
00:38:41
Speaker
That's the sad part. Yeah. And the client just went for a ride. That kind of looks like an orphan up there.
00:38:49
Speaker
They probably like it too. That's reminiscent of the piece we made. Yeah. Proportionally, for sure. Yeah. You know, we split the doors into a double panel with a with a mid style. Yeah. Similar proportions and and definitely some design cues there.
00:39:16
Speaker
you know, with this transition thing going here, bracket feet. We have three doors down here, but... Yeah, the piece we made's a little bit bigger, probably. Now this, contrary to a lot of what else we've seen, looks like it's overlay. Yeah. The top is definitely overlay, because it's their butt hinges. You're right. But these drawers look like they overlay the case.
00:39:38
Speaker
Oh, yeah, that those doors fall back all the way, probably. Yeah, we have run into that a time or two. Hmm. Maybe maybe, yeah, we know. Well, you never know. Yeah, we might be seeing that piece pretty soon.
00:40:07
Speaker
Might be going up there to put the hardware on it. About time. So we're still talking about George Hepplewhite. I have some notes here about later Hepplewhite styles. British furniture manufacturers began reviving Hepplewhite designs in the 1880s.
Revival of Hepplewhite Designs
00:40:31
Speaker
So really not that long after his death.
00:40:33
Speaker
though they're themselves antiques. Now the construction is usually not as solid as that found in older pieces, nor is the decoration quite as finely detailed in these mass produced reproductions. Yeah. Start to see the, uh, the industrial revolution rear. Yeah. It's a, it's a hepple white knockoff that began right after he's in the grave. I mean, not a hepple, right? It's a hepple wrong. Yeah.
00:41:02
Speaker
The Kittenger Furniture Company of Buffalo, New York became known for its faithful hepa white repros in the 1920s and 30s. Made of high quality woods, some of these pieces have become collectibles in their own right. Take care not to confuse these reproductions with older and more valuable period pieces. Yeah, they're a period of their own.
00:41:25
Speaker
Yeah, in a sense, Applewhite furniture has never gone out of style. Recognizable features such as the shield back, fluted legs, serpentine front remain standard in traditional furniture design. I mean, it's true. We've seen it in everything from nice custom work to the crap you'll find at Macy's or something.
00:41:51
Speaker
These pieces are often considered to be classics that easily fit in with a variety of decorating styles.
00:42:05
Speaker
Yeah, that's the one thing I've thought of as I've been, you know, going through these pictures and stuff. You see all like the classic design cues and how they're implemented in today's like junk furniture and how it's they'll take a piece from here. Again, this kind of looks like something grandma used to have, right?
00:42:32
Speaker
Could be yours. And we got free delivery. All right. Next, next up is Thomas Sheridan. So he's born 1751, dies 1806. He was young. Yeah.
00:42:50
Speaker
And he's about 25 years younger than Hepplewhite. So they are contemporaries, but sort of different generations. Charitin's a furniture designer, one of the aforementioned big three English furniture makers of the 18th century. Don't forget Chippy Chippendale. Tommy C. I'm trying to be confused with Tommy G.
00:43:17
Speaker
That's right. Sheridan gave his name to style furniture characterized by a feminine refinement of late Georgian styles and became the most powerful source of inspiration behind the furniture of the late 18th century.
00:43:34
Speaker
I read it time and time again that Sheraton's work was the most copied in a good way. He wrote that book and his influence was the broadest. Like the other guys,
00:43:58
Speaker
Even though that we're talking about American furniture, these still are native Brits. Sheraton was born in Stockton-on-Tees County, Durham, England. Oh, they're a Durham County boy. Yeah. Nowadays, there's a pub named after him there. That's a high owner. Yeah, that's right. One of the leaders and preachers of the Stockton Baptist Church. And he preached also during his travels.
00:44:27
Speaker
I always assumed Baptist was an American invention. Um, yeah, it wasn't. I don't know. No, because the Anabaptists, um, they were, they were, uh, an early Protestant religion. It was, they were the people that just believed you had to be baptized as an adult. I think like a second time. Uh, well yeah, that it didn't count because you were too young. Uh, that's why.
00:44:54
Speaker
Like you shouldn't like you didn't need to be baptized as a baby. Because what the hell did you know? You're right. That was that was one of their points. You got to shed that original sin, though. Got to get that off your back. Well, Sheridan was actually apprentice to a local cabinet maker and worked as a journeyman until he moved to London in 1790 at the age of 39. Well, like 15 years before he died.
00:45:22
Speaker
Right. So that's old at that time. I mean, he was he was a journeyman, cabinet maker, working for somebody else until he's 39 till like three quarters of his life is gone. Maybe it wasn't that good.
00:45:37
Speaker
Well, apparently he had something to say. Up until that point. That's right. There he set up as professional consultant and teacher, teaching perspective, architecture and cabinet design for craftsmen. I'm sensing some otherworldly intervention coming up here.
00:45:58
Speaker
Could be. It is not known how he gained either the knowledge or the reputation, which enabled him to do this, but he appears to have been more, have been moderately successful. It's like the pyramids. Yeah. How does he go from just working for somebody to becoming a consultant and a teacher? Good. Sounds like smoke and mirrors. Yeah, I don't know. It's old fake it till you make it scenario.
00:46:26
Speaker
Well, listen, just one year later, he publishes he publishes the first of four volumes of the Cabinet Makers and upholsterers drawing book just about stealing. Yeah, because it was Cabinet Maker and upholsters guide guide. Yeah.
00:46:48
Speaker
And also that was also published in 1791. I'm telling you, he was looking at Alice Hepaway. He's like this bitch. Hepaway died now. She's putting out all these drawings. I got to ride this train, make some of this money. Well, listen to this. At least 600 cabinet makers and join and subscribe to his book. And it was immediately widely influential over a large part of the country. They probably thought it was a Hepaway book.
00:47:18
Speaker
They're like, this is the third Hepaway release. Can I get it? Or the fourth? Well, it's a weird story because during this time he doesn't even have his own workshop. And it's believed that he never even made any of the pieces shown in his book. He's a content creator. All he did was create the content. And look at the justice. He becomes the biggest one of them all.
00:47:49
Speaker
like Apple white, no pieces of furniture have ever been traced to, uh, what's his face? Uh, Sheraton directly. So a piece of furniture described as being by Sheraton really means it's his design and he's not the maker of the piece.
00:48:09
Speaker
I mean, we joke, but regardless of, I'm sure they were his designs. I mean, that's almost harder than actually building something. For me, at least, the design part is the hard part. The making is the easy part. So, I mean, that's even more impressive to be able to design all these things.
00:48:31
Speaker
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's a it's another skill set. And he obviously had had something there to give because it was kind of instant success.
00:48:46
Speaker
Yeah, 600 people. That's pretty good. And, you know, his name certainly lives on. In 1803, he published the Cabinet Dictionary, a compendium of instructions on the techniques of cabinet and chair making.
00:49:05
Speaker
Well, then a year before his death in 1805, he published the first volume of The Cabinet Maker, upholsterer and general artists encyclopedia. I tell you that there was nobody giving them any artistic help on the titles of these books. Yeah.
00:49:26
Speaker
So the Sherrington's name's associated with the styles of furniture fashionable in the 1790s and early 19th century. That's the early 1800s.
00:49:38
Speaker
Many of the designs are based on classical architecture, knowledge of which was an essential part of a designer's technical education. Think about that nowadays. Not all the drawings are of his own design. He acknowledged that some of them came from works in progress in the workshops of practicing cabinet makers, but he was a superb draftsman and he set his name on the style of the era.
00:50:05
Speaker
That must have come from an English website. The way Draftsman is spelled. Oh, yeah. Droughtsman. That's right. That's like how they would spell like draft. You know, beer. So let's check out a Sheraton style sideboard.
Sheraton-style Furniture Exploration
00:50:20
Speaker
He was such a popular designer. They named the hotel after him. That's right. A chain.
00:50:28
Speaker
It's nice. Yeah it is nice. Looking like walnut. It's really nice. Got a little reverse, uh, cathedral over here. Mhm.
00:50:40
Speaker
I like this little alcove in the top. You can see the Sheraton, see his legs compared to the, cause that's the same detail in the last Sheraton examples where they kind of have that sort of, uh, I mean, how would you describe that bell shaped or? Yeah. Like, uh, yeah. Turned taper. Yeah.
00:51:07
Speaker
It's got reeds, but it's got that sort of that bulb of a. Yeah, but yeah, and all these, you know, little earn kind of things in between. Yeah. See again here for a short grain on these rails. Yeah. So it must be veneer. Yeah, definitely.
00:51:33
Speaker
I would love to get a, like a, that's really nice. These drawers probably. Yeah. Looks very shallow on this one. Maybe this is just fixed and these are drawers, but they might even be doors.
00:51:46
Speaker
I was gonna say I'd love to get a look at those doors like open up the door and look at the the work Where there's that short grain veneer on there. Yeah Yeah, I wonder if I know there's places where you can go and see stuff like this I wonder if there's place where you can go and actually touch them Probably not
00:52:05
Speaker
And yeah, people are dark, they ruin it. Well, just tell them who we are when we show up. Come on in. We got the white gloves ready. Yeah, no vacuum press there. Yeah. Well, I mean, look at this. This piece of veneer is insane. I know. And I think it's, you know. Two hundred year old piece of furniture.
00:52:35
Speaker
You know, and more. These almost look like little owls. Yeah, you're right. I think maybe these are those bell flowers that they're talking about. We got the same top detail here. Thin top is definitely a characteristic of this period. You know, this top's got to be, I don't know what this overall thing is, but that's going to be half an inch up there. A little rounded at the bottom of the foot, right? Yeah.
00:53:07
Speaker
I think this with tapered square legs. That'd do it for you. Maybe nix these things. Yeah, you can see that anywhere, right?
00:53:20
Speaker
Yeah. I like how these are sitting up on the legs. I like that proportion. Maybe we'll get a chance to submit something like that. Well, I drew that console that ended up getting nixed and it got revised to that Walnut thing with the green paint. Remember that? Yeah. The first thing I drew was
00:53:41
Speaker
was like a low slung console that had the legs all the way up to the top like this on the four corners. And they were, I think, round tapered. Nice. I know they were octagons. Oh, tapered octagons. Yeah. And then
00:54:05
Speaker
There was some kind of detail with the top. I think the top. Oh, the top was sitting up and then it had that big undercut chamfer. I'm talking about it like anybody who's listening knows the whole talk about that. They're just they're just going to our own conversations. Now this is completely different. Yeah. This looks like it's like in a hotel.
00:54:32
Speaker
Mm hmm. Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I like I mean, I wouldn't like it from my home, but I like the the circular veneer, you know, there's the with the keyhole the top. Yeah, you could see how they have like the mitered. You know, a veneer here. Yeah. Horizontal grain here. Mm hmm. String inlay.
00:55:00
Speaker
But this one's got like that serpentine kind of front. There we go. It's a nice high res picture. That must be the spade foot. Yeah. A little bit thicker top. Mm hmm. Maybe three quarter. Simpler. Looks like heavy gloss on the top. Yeah. Better. It's really dusty.
00:55:33
Speaker
But I mean, executing those that that S curve with the drawers and the doors. Yeah, you've got two concave doors and a convex drawer. I mean, I wonder how they made those curves. I mean, I wonder what the core of those curved parts is. Must be Cooper's, you know, stay for with veneer.
00:56:01
Speaker
And then I guess they have, it must have positive and negative forms for pressing. And I mean, these are labor intensive things to build with, you know, rudimentary tools, rudimentary compared to what we have now. Right. Even, I mean, in a simple shop like ours, we have so many more advantages. Yeah.
00:56:28
Speaker
Yeah. I like, um, the poles on the center of the door. I mean, that's another nice touch. That's cool. Yeah. That's nice. I mean, compare it back to that first one just for a quick second.
00:56:55
Speaker
I mean, it doesn't even look like it comes from the same guy, does it? No. I much prefer this first one, though. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that one looks almost like a sewing cabinet or something. Yeah, this is a little too Queen Anne for me. Yeah. You know, with this. I don't know, this big tall center section and. The geometry of it.
00:57:25
Speaker
Yeah, that's sweet. Look like little robots. Yeah. Four of them. So we're going to go to the third of our big three, Duncan Five. Oh, Scotsman. Yeah, yeah. And he's even younger, born in 1768. So
00:57:56
Speaker
When did the other guys die? Uh, 18. Was it in the 1800s? I know that Sheridan was. Right. I think, um, I think Heppewite died in the 1700s, didn't he? 1788. I think he died. 1786 Heppewite died. Sheridan 17, 1806 he died. All right. So, um, Duncan five. He was 20 when Heppewite died. Duncan five.
00:58:26
Speaker
Scottish immigrant comes to the U.S. with his family in 1784, so he's just under 20. He's, what, 16? Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's two years before Hepaway died. Yeah. The apprentice and a cabinetmaker shop in Albany, New York before moving to New York City in the early 1800s.
00:58:49
Speaker
Fife had established a furniture making shop that catered to wealthy customers along the eastern seaboard. Nice going, Duncan. Yeah, smart move. Today, the name Duncan Fife is almost synonymous with high craftsmanship and refined style. So why is Fife's furniture so celebrated?
00:59:12
Speaker
He didn't invent a new furniture style, but he displayed great skill in blending elements of popular and fashionable European styles into finely made
Duncan Phyfe's Factory Approach
00:59:23
Speaker
furniture for America.
00:59:30
Speaker
Unlike Sheridan and Hepplewhite, he's really not forged any new paths, but as I said before, Fife's been known to carry out those designs by the Hepplewhite and Sheraton to the highest order. He created the best furniture that those guys put on paper. Fife actually built it. Fife successfully used a factory approach to making furniture.
00:59:59
Speaker
Uh-oh. So his works weren't specifically carved or made by him alone. His workshop at its height hired over 100 skilled craftsmen who made a wide range of furniture.
01:00:13
Speaker
The Duncan Fife inventory included armchairs and side chairs, dining room sets, side tables, card tables, sofas, large cabinets, and secretaries. So he's a go-getter. I mean, all these guys, obviously the people who history has remembered, they're the people who, you know, made the biggest mark, left the biggest footprints.
01:00:42
Speaker
Five had a careful eye towards style refinement dedicated to high quality materials to ensure the best finished product. He established quality craftsmanship in all steps of the process in his factory. So it was like a very hands on executive chef. Yeah.
01:01:07
Speaker
going through making sure everything was just right. He carefully aged his woods before using them. You know, not eliminate, but less prone to cracking. And it's his excellence in making the furniture as well as his specific style that made him so popular.
01:01:26
Speaker
Don't get fife. Yeah, so his execution as well as his interpretation of the styles of the day One thing five didn't do is label his furniture Hmm so to identify authentic pieces you need to know what to look for Let's check out a five armchair. Not what I was expecting. I
01:01:54
Speaker
I've seen that style of chair, had no idea it was a Duncan Fife. Yeah, it seems, uh... Oh, man. Well, you see, he's... he did all kinds of stuff, as we just read. And this reminds me, I'm not an expert on it, by any means. But it does, uh, fall in my empire, empire period. Mm-hmm. Uh, because that's sort of like Egyptian there. Yeah. I think that's some of the influences that start coming through.
01:02:22
Speaker
little like brass claw feet. Yeah. And you know, those, the half circle on the half circle. It's a little bizarre. It looks like a half lap right here. And this is integral goes all the way up to the, uh, the back of the chair. And we see the caning come back again. Yeah. These are all like fluted, uh,
01:02:50
Speaker
apron on the or read it on the seat. It's quite a mishmash of the things we've been reading about. Yeah, I'm not going to lie. I hate this chair.
01:03:04
Speaker
It is ugly. It looks like two designs stick together, doesn't it? I hate this stretcher right here. You got these square with taper and then this turn thing. And then the reeded thing, transition pieces right there. Yeah. And then what's up with this carving here? Yeah. It's really odd, isn't it?
01:03:32
Speaker
Yeah. What's up with these little feet? This guy was a mad scientist. We had some technical difficulties here. And we don't know if we lost the first hour of the show, but if we did, you're only getting 10 minutes.
01:03:53
Speaker
So we're looking at the fight farm chair. Yeah. We were, we were sort of laughing at it because it's, it's kind of a goofy looking thing. Yeah. And, and listen to this, the Duncan five style in a general sense, Duncan five furniture is known for its balance, harmony and proportion, all elements of a piece of work.
01:04:17
Speaker
All elements of a piece work together to create a pleasing refined whole. Now that chair, come on. Yeah, it's a little iffy. Individual furniture objects don't look too clunky or awkward or have elements that seem out of place. This is exactly the opposite of what our opinion is. Yeah, it's the antithesis, that chair.
01:04:39
Speaker
5 was a successful businessman who adopted elements of new styles as they became fashionable. So there isn't one cohesive style that always shows in a five piece. Rather there are certain elements that reflect his quality of manufacture and refined eye.
01:04:56
Speaker
uh five tended to make pieces from high grade hardwoods like mahogany or rosewood yeah so details might be done in precious metals like ivory oh geez or gilt brass which is brass coated in a thin layer of gold
01:05:16
Speaker
Surfaces might be decorated with veneers or different colored and patterned hardwoods. And veneers are paper. I'm not going to say that. Some pieces were repulsed in durable material like the damask, which had decorative patterns woven into its surface. Man, I was on such a roll.
01:05:42
Speaker
Freaking computer. Yeah Here's a little thing that interested me that Duncan Fife is interred or buried at Greenwood Cemetery
Duncan Phyfe's Legacy at The Met
01:05:52
Speaker
in Brooklyn. Hmm Yeah, so I've driven past Greenwood Cemetery many many times. I hope they buried that chair with them. Yeah on October 15th of 1922 the Metropolitan Museum of Art opened a
01:06:11
Speaker
Furniture from the workshop of Duncan Fife and it was the first exhibition ever held in an art museum on the work of a single cabinet maker 90 years later and for only the second time in history a major retrospective of this iconic American craftsman and his furniture
01:06:29
Speaker
was again on view from the 20th of December in 2011 to May 6, 2012 under the title Duncan Fife, master cabinet maker in New York.
01:06:44
Speaker
Fife's furniture can be admired in the White House, Green Room, Edgewater, I'm not sure where that is, Roper House, and especially at Milford Plantation, owned by the Classical American Homes Preservation Trust. This furniture appears in many museums and private collections as well. There's even more. Sideboard attributed to Fife. We got a fun fact. Yeah. Let's check out this sideboard. Maybe he regimes himself.
01:07:17
Speaker
Oh, yeah, not bad. You could see it's it's definitely similar, but it's it's moving away from that federal style that we've been viewing. Yeah. Really, he's you know, he's younger.
01:07:40
Speaker
Still has that contrasting. Yeah, the inlay, the brass is an oval, the curved front, the tapered legs. Pretty interesting. Yeah. Yeah.
01:08:01
Speaker
Um, fun fact, one of the largest roadside attractions in the U S is a giant chair located in Thomasville, North Carolina.
01:08:14
Speaker
And I saw a picture of this. It's a huge. It's like one of those things from the 60s. But I guess this was erected in 1950 as a monument erected in 1950 and the plaque located on its pedestal reads as follows. This chair is an exemplar and inspiration for future generations to emulate and perpetuate the achievements of our time honored furniture designers and craftsmen.
01:08:41
Speaker
The original chair was the creation of the famous American designer Duncan Fife. And that chair was actually recreated in 1959. Man, this is a long section. Yeah.
01:09:01
Speaker
That's the last one. So the fourth member, they didn't make it into the big three, were John and Thomas Seymour. Now this is similar to that piece we saw earlier. Yeah, these guys. These guys had it going on. Yeah, this is nice. It also is just a better picture. But I really like their interpretation.
01:09:34
Speaker
Yeah, that's beautiful. Now, this is probably the same maple that's, you know, maybe burned a little bit, the figure on it. Really, really nice detail around the mirror. Yeah. Nightstand.
01:10:03
Speaker
Wow. This one's not doing it for me as much. I wonder what that top is. Some kind of stone. It almost looks like an old 1940s radio. Yes. Yeah.
01:10:24
Speaker
Very, it's like a like a square, small square chest on little pencil legs. Yeah. It's a little odd. A little bit. Seems a little impractical. But I guess as a nightstand. There it is. It's in the picture with that nightstand. I think, you know, I'd prefer if these had wood tops. Mm hmm. This is cool. This looks very Georgian or
01:10:51
Speaker
Federal. Sorry. Yeah. Fed George. Whatever. Sheridan. Same thing. Sideboard. Wow, that looks almost like the five piece. Yeah. And there was a hepplewhite, I think, or Sheridan that had the same basically a basic layout with this big
01:11:19
Speaker
with that last five piece that we kind of like, much more than the chair, of course. It was like a simpler version of this, with just stringing really. It had like a two-tone thing with dark in the center and light on the sides. Look at the grain going from the door to the drawer on the sides. Really, really nice. Nice little, like a binding on the top.
01:11:50
Speaker
Again, fairly substantial pieces of furniture raised up on legs, on small thin legs. There's a tambour desk. This pediment, not like that, but... I'm not crazy about that pediment. This big finial on the top.
01:12:11
Speaker
I don't know where you sit when you I mean, I guess We think of it differently. It's got it. Well, look does that pull out? Oh Yeah, that's a hinge to look at that It's a flipper flopper and this drops down a little keyhole That is cool
01:12:40
Speaker
In the picture, it says do not touch. These guys were craftsmen, the Seymour's. Yeah, definitely see their style and interpreting. They need some more credit. Yeah. So this last bit I remember is a little anecdote. A card table that was bought by Claire Wegman Beckman for twenty five dollars.
01:13:10
Speaker
Proved to be a good investment. It was sold at Sotheby's yesterday for $541,500
01:13:19
Speaker
I'm flying Miss Wigman Beckman 71 years old said after the Sotheby's annual important American furniture auction folk art sale. The retired teacher bought the table more than 30 years ago at a garage sale and displayed it in her home in Bergen County, New Jersey. I've always been a garage sale enthusiast, she says, but I never expected to get this much for anything.
01:13:49
Speaker
Israel sack ink a New York dealer fine American antiques bought the table which was one of six made by the Boston furniture maker John Seymour and son I think use Israel sack as some sort of source material for the early American huh
01:14:08
Speaker
The meticulously constructed table has its original finish and considered to be in good condition. Well, very interesting. I think John and Thomas Seymour to me were the standouts of, uh, yeah, they, at least what we saw.
01:14:25
Speaker
Well, maybe like you said, it's the design work that they weren't able to set themselves apart with. They were interpreters. But so was Duncan Fife. Yeah, I don't know. I didn't like that Fife stuff. It's funny how time remembers things, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah.
01:14:48
Speaker
because it's kind of clear to us that we like the Seymour's stuff and their work just pops compared to the other guys. It just jumps off the screen compared to anything we saw from everybody else. Yeah. I mean, the Sheridan stuff was liked, but I like the Seymour stuff a lot more. Yeah. Even his interpretations of the Hepplewhite and Sheridan work.
01:15:17
Speaker
I mean, this thing is great. Yeah. It's like they they take the best parts of it. Yeah, well, well, before my computer, you know, spits out and deletes this part of the podcast to better sign off for the week. Yeah. It's been a joy. Yeah.
01:15:45
Speaker
Go get yourself some vesting finish. Seems to be the way we end every podcast now. Yeah, why not? Yeah. I mean, it's something we use. I wouldn't say on a daily basis because we don't finish every day, but it's basically the only finish we use for, you know, doing the clear finish.
01:16:06
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, it has. We use the vesting single coat and the LED. It's the only thing that we've used since October. Yeah. Early October. So we've been using it a lot. I tell you, I missed having that LED on the last thing we did. Yeah. Matching up with the old matching up with Rubio that we've used, you know, previously for some rework on the job. But yeah.
01:16:37
Speaker
So when's this, uh, when's this episode air? It's 2022 by this time, isn't it? Yeah. First, uh, the first Friday in 2022. All right, everybody enjoy the new year. Yeah. And we'll see you next week for the last episode of the, uh, federal period. Yeah. Episode 16, 17, 16. Something like that. Yeah. All right. We'll see you next week.
01:17:09
Speaker
Where's my fucking mouse?