Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
Savvy Survival – a conversation with author Caroline Sposto
20 Plays6 days ago
Caroline Sposto, is the author of Savvy Survival… for women starting over alone later in life. It is a fast-moving inspirational playbook to empower and inspire women who find themselves suddenly single. It is the book that Caroline wished she had been able to read when her husband left, and she found herself suddenly single.
In this episode of the Abeceder work life balance podcast Rest and Recreation Carolne Sposto explains to host Michael Millward how she rebuilt her life, the mistakes she made and the unexpected opportunities she grabbed with both hands.
Now Caroline leads a nomadic life as an entrepreneur, author, and actress.
Regardless of your marital status this episode of Rest and Recreation will inspire you to review how you want to live and how you might get it.
Rest and Recreation is made on Zencastr, because creating podcasts on Zencastr is so easy.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr use our offer code ABECEDER.
Travel
Caroline was speaking to Michael from Mexico City, Mexico. Rest and Recreation listeners can access trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, and holidays to Mexico and anywhere else in the world as members of The Ultimate Travel Club.
travel to the USA and everywhere else at trade prices.
Visit Abeceder for more information about Caroline Sposto and Michael Millward.
Proactive Positive Ageing.
It is always a good idea to know the risks early so that you can take appropriate actions to maintain good health, that is why we recommend The Annual Health Test from York Test.
York Test provides an Annual Health Test. An experienced phlebotomist will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. Hospital standard tests covering 39 different health markers are carried out in a UKAS-accredited and CQC-compliant laboratory.
A Personal Wellness Hub gives access your easy-to-understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure, personal Wellness Hub account.
Visit York Test and use this discount code REST25.
Being a Guest
If you would like to be a guest on Rest and Recreation, please contact Abeceder.
Matchmaker.fm introduce many guests to Rest and Recreation. Matchmaker.fm is where great hosts and even greater guests are matched, and fantastic podcasts are hatched. Use code MILW10 for a discount on membership.
We recommend that potential guests take one of the podcasting guest training programmes available from Work Place Learning Centre.
Tech Problems?
Visit Three for information about business and personal telecom solutions from Three, and the special offers available when you quote our referral code WPFNUQHU.
If you have liked this episode of Rest and Recreation, please give it a like and download it. To make sure you do not miss future editions please subscribe.
Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abeceder is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think!
Thank you to you for listening.
We appreciate every like, download, and subscription.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Overview
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr. Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abysida. I am your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abysida.
00:00:20
Speaker
Today I am going to be learning from Caroline Scrozzo why the end of a long-term relationship is not the end of you and why it should be the start of something new.
00:00:32
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, rest and recreation is made on Zencastr. Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms like Spotify, Apple, Amazon, and Google YouTube music.
00:00:53
Speaker
Zencastr really does make making content so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abbasida.
Caroline's Background and Life Changes
00:01:08
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencast is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:25
Speaker
As with every episode of Rest and Recreation, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think. Today's rest and recreation guest is Caroline Sprozzo, the author of Savvy Survival for Women Starting Over Alone Later in Life.
00:01:47
Speaker
Caroline is very lucky. She's based in Mexico. It's somewhere that I haven't been, but when I do go, not if I go, but when I go, i will make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:02:10
Speaker
You can also access those trade prices by joining the Ultimate Travel Club. There is a link and a discount code in the description. Now that I've paid some bills, it is time to make up an episode of Rest and Recreation.
00:02:26
Speaker
Hello, Caroline. Hello, Michael. Hello. Have I been pronouncing your surname correctly? People have trouble with it. It's, and it was my married surname, but I still use it. It's Sposto, Sposto, almost like pasta, but S-P-O-S-T-O, Sposto.
00:02:43
Speaker
You can call me Michael if I can call you Caroline. I like that.
00:02:50
Speaker
That's great. Could we start this episode of Rest and Recreation with you telling us a little bit about your history, how you ended up in um in Mexico City, and why it was you came to write a book?
Challenges and Inspirations
00:03:02
Speaker
Of course. I'm originally from the United States. Now I'm in my early 60s. I'll 63 the end of June. I got married in my 20s, like most women in my generation did, had two kids, and was in that marriage for, oh, goodness, over 25 years, and did everything that a typical woman in my generation who kind of followed the social norms did, making my priority, helping my now former husband get ahead with his career, raising the kids, and making my identity really around who I was to everyone else.
00:03:40
Speaker
And I was quite happy with that life. I thought we did well. I loved our home, raised the children. They went off to the colleges they wanted to go to. And I thought life was settled and all was well.
00:03:51
Speaker
However, that's not the case. Life has a way of sort of throwing a curveball every so often. Yes, and sometimes it seems like all the curveballs come at once. So no other way to describe it. And I know it's it's a cliche, but it was the perfect storm.
00:04:06
Speaker
My former husband was not being so honest with me and was making some plans for an exit that would not be very good for me financially, to say the least. Meanwhile, my well, long story short, i had I thought that I also had some Inheritance coming and some goodwill coming from the family I grew up in.
Reactions and Reflections
00:04:27
Speaker
There were a lot of sudden deaths and I won't go into the details, but I ended up materially dispossessed and kind of just out out on my own with very little.
00:04:39
Speaker
as a complete shock to myself. In addition to the material challenges, I had a bit of an identity crisis. ah No, I actually had a horrific identity crisis. Who am I now? What am I ever going to do?
00:04:54
Speaker
Betrayal is hard to process and get our minds around, especially when it's more than one person. Well, I've seen it often in the celebrity culture, if we watch the movie stars' lives or whatever.
00:05:05
Speaker
When A wife is betrayed by a husband. A certain number of people really engage in a bit of schadenfreude over that. I don't know why. i guess it's a ah titillating little bit of gossip.
00:05:17
Speaker
So, um, and my ex-husband's midlife crisis was very showy. Oh, it was, it was a complete, uh, complete meltdown type of situation, really. it was It was a meltdown. I was embarrassed and ah horrified.
00:05:33
Speaker
But that's not what the book is about whatsoever. The book came about because right after that happened and and in the aftermath, when I was picking up the pieces, I went to the libraries and bookstores and Amazon trying to find the book that I needed to help me get on the other side of it.
00:05:51
Speaker
And I couldn't find anything. I found celebrity memoirs where the women's got millions of dollars. I found aggressive legal divorce books that made no sense or books about your children while mine were grown.
00:06:04
Speaker
But I managed to get to the other side of the whole situation and really come out with a better life than ever.
Finding New Paths and Business Success
00:06:11
Speaker
It took about five years. you know, I'm not kidding. It took that long.
00:06:16
Speaker
However, i think a good teacher can save you a lot of time if you're in that situation. That's a really good thing. I should remember that. A good teacher can save you a lot of time is one of those statements that just rolled off your tongue, but actually it's so true.
00:06:33
Speaker
If you can learn from other people's experience, you're in a very fortunate situation. We talk very often about we need a mentor. We need to be able see someone else do it before we can believe that we can do it.
00:06:47
Speaker
You know, we need to we need to learn before we embark upon a journey. And and yet the situation that you were in, seems to been very much that like you weren't planning on a particular journey it was just like you're on this journey no choices you're you're this is there is the route and there is no road map and you don't know where the destination is but you're you're on a journey get on with it that's exactly it i felt like i was kind of in an open landscape with no path and that looked terrifying until you realize wait a minute if there's no path
00:07:20
Speaker
guess who gets to make the path? I do. That is a huge mind shift, isn't it? Yes. To be in a complete situation where you are just, I have no idea nevermind tomorrow, what the next two minutes is going to be like.
00:07:36
Speaker
My whole life has been turned upside down. All the things you expected have been taken away from you. All your plans have been destroyed. And then i can't imagine what that is really like.
00:07:49
Speaker
But then where do you get the strength from to actually say there is no path? I'll lay my own path. where' where's the Where does the inner strength come from? Well, my book does not talk about religion or anything else. And I don't, I'm not conventionally religious, but I do have, I am a woman with a certain amount of faith. I guess it came from faith.
00:08:09
Speaker
It came from necessity. And it also came from my two daughters, who at the time were about 20 and 21. And my youngest daughter, she said, mom, calm down. Here's what you're going to do.
00:08:22
Speaker
get Get some index cards, and every day you write down one idea, one idea a day of what you're going to do, and at the end of a year, you'll have 365 ideas. you know Surely you're going to have a good idea in in that whole stack of ideas.
00:08:37
Speaker
I took her advice. i was working menial jobs at the time. Long story short, the idea for the business that I still have... It's been I've had it for eight years came out of those ideas.
00:08:49
Speaker
The book that I'm talking about now was one of those ideas. And I still continue to write down ideas because I see the value in it. Some ideas we have are stupid and terrible and pointless, but we do have good ideas.
00:09:02
Speaker
And if we have lots of ideas and we write them down, any of us can have some great ideas in that batch. Yes, yes, I agree with you. I write down the ideas that led to the establishment of Abbasida.
00:09:15
Speaker
I can look back at them now and think like, yeah, we are doing that, we are doing that, we are doing that. And yet at the time, there were all sorts of people that told me that I was mad. I may actually be mad. I've got a smile on my face and I'm enjoying life and it's all because eight made a point of writing the ideas down and then being honest with myself about the ideas that I could make work and actually building a life that combined work and play and family and everything together so that nothing is out of balance so to speak.
00:09:49
Speaker
Yes. And I think committing to an idea is almost like committing to a marriage or something else. We can't build anything until we commit to the idea and work with it. And after that honeymoon phase of the excitement of the idea, things can get hard.
00:10:06
Speaker
But once we've committed to the idea... we work through it and we stick with it until we get to the other side.
Writing 'Savvy Survival' Book
00:10:12
Speaker
It's like someone once told me, you can't build a mansion if you lay down a brick over here and a brick over there and a brick over there. You have to keep yourself centered in one spot and keep building on it.
00:10:24
Speaker
And I think that's the other secret to ideas. Yes, that focus and commitment. Yes, I know. So tell us a little bit more about the book. Why did you call it Savvy Survival?
00:10:36
Speaker
Well, I like alliteration. And so I wanted the two S's. The business that I have is called Savvy Civility. And the next book I have will be called that too. So I wanted a title that it looks good on a book cover and that, I don't know, just struck me.
00:10:52
Speaker
The book itself came about, it was kind of a vague idea. And then ideas have to catch that spark at some point. And in this case, I was in an airport waiting to get on a plane to New York. My daughters now, they're in their 30s. One is in LA and one is in New York.
00:11:09
Speaker
At this time, I was flying to New York to visit both of them when they both lived there. As we do when we're waiting sometimes for an airplane, I was kind of scrolling through Facebook on my phone and a meme with Toni Morrison's words came up.
00:11:24
Speaker
and And the meme it was... If there is a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written, then you must write it. That statement just hit me right between the eyes.
00:11:35
Speaker
And then by some little stroke of luck, I got bumped up to first class on that flight. Oh, it was exciting. And it felt like an omen to me somehow. I ordered a cup of black coffee and took out my laptop and just started the book.
00:11:52
Speaker
And of course I've been busy and creative projects can be can get put on hold. So it took about five years from the inception to the completion of the book. I understand when you when you need a book and it isn't there, so you should write it, you're almost too much involved. You're too involved in the situation to be actually, to be able to see it with clarity.
00:12:15
Speaker
I wanted it to be a playbook for women, kind of a methodical playbook that takes people through the process with journaling and self-reflecting exercises. It's got humor in it that, well, I hope people find amusing. I did my best on that.
00:12:30
Speaker
But um yeah, it's just, it's a book of lots and lots of short chapters tackling different obstacles we might face. when somebody talks about obstacles, it's knowing that it's an obstacle in the first place. And too many people, I think very often sort think I've got to hit, hit this obstacle head on if I'm going to go through it, but because you've called the book savvy and I looked this up in the dictionary, savvy means to know.
00:12:59
Speaker
So I'm thinking that, You've done that because savvy survival is like ah having a teacher will save you a lot of time and perhaps a lot of bruises, emotional and physical, because you're not going to hit things head on.
00:13:17
Speaker
You're going to work your way around and and through obstacles, but you're not actually going start running at them like a bull in a china shop. Well, that's it. And we also don't need to shy away from obstacles. There's a, there are other ways we can, uh, go over them or around them.
00:13:36
Speaker
Um, hitting them head on is probably, let's just say, we'll bruise us up a little. Here's an example of an obstacle that I hit. I was in New York before i'm I'm in Mexico city. Now I'll be returning to New York. I've been in Mexico about three years, but, um,
00:13:53
Speaker
I was in New York, I'm also an actress, and when I'm in the US, not when I'm in Mexico, but I saw a notice for an audition for a play at the Orbach Theater, which is on 50th and Broadway, a small courtroom drama, and I was looking at the casting notice, and I noticed that for whatever reason, both of the roles for the expert witnesses were men.
00:14:17
Speaker
And I thought about it, and I thought, you know, what do I have to lose? I managed to find a way to get in touch with the people producing the play and I said, you know, my name is Caroline Sposto. I'm an actress. I noticed that you're casting only male expert witnesses.
00:14:33
Speaker
That might be a little antiquated. Have you ever thought about making one of the expert witnesses a female? And they were surprised and they said, hmm. come down and read for the role.
00:14:46
Speaker
And when I read for the role and they saw a woman in that role, they loved it. And I was put in the play. i was So I had a six month contract. We were COVID closed by the end of it. But that's an example of, I would have taken no for an answer if they would have just said no on the phone. Of course, you don't force yourself on people.
00:15:06
Speaker
But sometimes you can get around an obstacle with the words, what if? Yes. What if you put a woman in the role? What if, or have you ever made an exception?
Dealing with Obstacles and Personal Growth
00:15:17
Speaker
And those words can open a lot of doors if you know how to say them. Asking questions when you want something, you're not going to get it unless you ask for it, unless you let people know that you want something.
00:15:30
Speaker
You know, the worst thing that people can say is no, but you'll never give people the opportunity to say yes, unless you ask the question. That's just it. And if they say no, they're not taking anything away from you that you already have.
00:15:43
Speaker
I didn't have that role anyway, so no would have left me right where I was to begin with. But the yes yeah made made things a whole lot better. And i I think it was better for the play, too. I think it modernized it just that little smidge to have a woman expert witness.
00:15:58
Speaker
Brilliant. Congratulations. Thank you. That's brilliant. and Now, one of the things that you talk about in the book is not being able to build the future if you are operating within the framework of the past.
00:16:12
Speaker
Yes, and I'm saying that because I made a costly and depressing mistake right out of the gate. After the demise of my marriage, I didn't have much money to work with, but i I somehow, the only life I could envision for myself was the life that I had before. And so I rented an entire house, put my half of the furniture from the marriage into that house, and then supplemented the empty spots with more furniture.
00:16:42
Speaker
I was cooking like you would think I had a family. I was cooking, i decorating decorating for the holidays. Well, I was alone. my yeah The family I grew up in, they ye they were passed away. So it was just me. My daughters were states away going to college. And here I am taking care of a yard and putting flowers in the garden and doing this and doing that all by myself. It cost a lot of money.
00:17:10
Speaker
It was an absolute disaster. And it was because i was trying to make a new life that was based on the old one and the comparison, it paled in comparison materially, socially,
Materialism, Identity, and Freedom
00:17:24
Speaker
emotionally. It was just terrible.
00:17:26
Speaker
After I sold everything and decided to scale all the way down, rented a room with another recently divorced woman my age, her name was Sylvia.
00:17:38
Speaker
We're still very good friends to this day, but we shared a condo with two bedrooms and Our lives were very different all of a sudden because my lifestyle had changed and I wasn't trying to imitate the old life.
00:17:51
Speaker
Now I live a very nomadic life. I've traveled living out of a few suitcases and because I can work remotely and I would have never had that life if I would have stayed in that conventional, you know, rent the whole house, try to find the next husband, but you know, and the whole nine yards.
00:18:12
Speaker
I can understand how recreating a past life when it has been taken away from you would give you a sense of security, and confidence in the future because it's what you know.
00:18:23
Speaker
But the savvy survival is talking about, well, actually, you don't need to be who you were. You can be whoever you want to be. We're back to that idea that there is no path and you can create your own path. Or even if there is a path and you can see it, like you can replicate or attempt to replicate what you used to have, you don't actually have to go down that path if you don't want to.
00:18:50
Speaker
I agree. And at least in the US where I grew up, and where my marriage and most of my life has taken place, we were very much indoctrinated into a consumer culture into a level of materialism and status where, you know, by the time I was in my 50s and out of my marriage, I still had this foolish idea that the kind of car I drove and the kind of house I had and the kind of clothes I wore had something to do with who I was.
00:19:20
Speaker
Well, I haven't had a car for years now because I'm nomadic. Haven't had a house for years now. And my clothes can go in the washer and dryer and if If something gets ruined, it's, you know, it's probably from Gap or Target, doesn't matter.
00:19:36
Speaker
But the point is that I'm still the same person or maybe even a a person, I respect myself more, but it's not on the external side. Getting rid of that materialism, I mean, we're, I think we're all kind of brainwashed to think that we are supposed to be a certain way. And once we shake that off, we're so free.
00:19:54
Speaker
Yeah, we're living the stereotypes. we with That's exactly it. Yes. And it's all about other people's definitions of what successful looks like or what happiness looks like.
00:20:06
Speaker
What you're saying is like, you have to break free of those stereotypes of these ah expectations and actually define the world from your perspective and how you want to fit into it.
00:20:18
Speaker
I think so. And, you know, I... love looking at the younger generations because I think they are not buying into all of the same things.
00:20:29
Speaker
And I love what I'm seeing. My, I came of age in the 1980s and my family, well, my grandparents had immigrated to the U S from Europe. And I think that we were brought up to, to succeed in ways that showed outwardly.
00:20:48
Speaker
A lot of what I did was to please my parents and make them proud that their daughter was successful. And my ex-husband, his parents, his grandparents also came from Italy, did the same thing. And so we had you know, the conventionally nice house, e etc. And looking back, it was all excessive, so unnecessary, and so much not, not who I was, I don't know if it was who he was, but it certainly wasn't me.
Secrets, Honesty, and Self-Acceptance
00:21:13
Speaker
So, and I think a lot of that goes on, I think, at least the US suburbs, I think are full of that. And it's, it's too bad. The world once it's part of being, ah when a country dev develops a middle class, it's almost, I think people have to justify that, that label and be seen to be doing the things that middle-class middle-aged people do.
00:21:39
Speaker
And that means they're spending money, like I say, on things they don't really want to impress people they don't really like. It's absolutely true. You talk as well in book about ah unnecessary secrets.
00:21:51
Speaker
Well, yes, I think we all have them. There's a chapter in my book called Ignoring the Inner Imp. And I use the word inner imp because imp is the first yeah word in the, the word imposters.
00:22:04
Speaker
And we've all heard of imposter syndrome. But my feeling is that all of us have a little voice inside of us that's almost like having ah a heckler on on permanent retainer.
00:22:17
Speaker
And that voice can speak to us in the voice of our third grade teacher who gave us a dressing down or our parents or our ex spouse or whoever scolding us and telling us things, but also kind of using our secrets against us.
00:22:32
Speaker
um In the home where I grew up, I grew up in a ah very solid looking middle class home where alcoholism ravaged the family. But it was a very well-kept secret, very closely closely guarded.
00:22:47
Speaker
I had four siblings. Three of them died of alcoholism. But growing up with secrets in my house and an image to portray outside of my house, you know, it was so stigmatized that I kept that secret very unnecessarily, I think.
00:23:01
Speaker
Maybe it was necessary to keep that secret. But there's a certain amount of shame in a secret, a certain amount of lying or covering for people that goes with it. you know Why isn't your mother at the school play that you're in Oh, well, come up with something. and that was the way i that I had to grow up in that manner.
00:23:21
Speaker
And there were problems within my marriage that I also covered up and fudged up so that we looked like a happier couple than we were in some ways. But I think we all do that.
00:23:32
Speaker
And once we get to a point where we can at least be truthful with ourselves and say, okay, I'm keeping these secrets. Is it necessary to keep all these secrets? Not that we have to air our dirty laundry and overshare with people, but there's a point where we can have discretion without that shame that forces us into discretion, if that makes sense.
00:23:53
Speaker
It does make sense. It's not that it's secret as such, it's just that we are embarrassed. If somebody found it out, we would be embarrassed. Saying that it doesn't have to be a secret doesn't mean that you have to tell everyone.
00:24:07
Speaker
It's just that you have to almost release yourself from the shame and the guilt of the the piece of information that you're not sharing with other people. That's exactly it. And I don't believe in oversharing and I don't believe in burdening other people with our problems because nobody wants to hear about our problems. They have their own, believe me. Yes. But we don't need to feel there's something wrong with us because everything in our life isn't as great as it might appear or because we you know, there are problems behind closed doors. We don't have to hate ourselves for it, if that makes sense.
Positivity and Embracing the Journey
00:24:45
Speaker
There's no shame in these things. Yeah, it makes an awful lot of sense. And what I can see if it's not oversharing is just in your voice, just how positive a place you are now in.
00:24:57
Speaker
I am, I believe. And that's not to say that I don't have days where I feel a little bit depressed or, Oh, we all have those or lonely. Yeah, done a lot of travel all by myself in the past few years.
00:25:09
Speaker
That has a lonely aspect to it as well. But, you know, so of course I still have my ah and my foibles and and mental hangups, but I'm generally very happy. and And I'm able to laugh at my own absurdity. For example, adding my age year by year into the future when I'm feeling anxious. that's I think we a lot of us do that and it's silly.
00:25:30
Speaker
Yes, i can I can understand what you mean. But I also sort of think, when I think about my age, it's like, am I really anxious? Am I really that age?
00:25:42
Speaker
I was like, wow. Whoa. And then you think that if I do reach another birthday and another birthday after that, ah they sit how lucky I will be because other people don't. And it's just like, we have this gift of, of life and,
00:25:59
Speaker
I totally get what you're talking about with savvy survival and how it is about getting to know yourself, getting to know your environment, the environment you want to be in and the person that you really want to be in order to to move forward.
Conclusion and Promotion
00:26:15
Speaker
i totally get it.
00:26:17
Speaker
Totally get it. And I really do appreciate it. Caroline, I have so enjoyed my conversation with you. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Thank you.
00:26:28
Speaker
Thank you so much for having me on. i had so much fun talking to you. Thank you very much. I am Michael Millward, Managing Director of Abbasida. And in this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been having a conversation with Caroline Sparzo.
00:26:46
Speaker
Did I say that correctly? Spasto. It's fine. Thank you. The author of Savvy Survival for Women Starting Over Alone Later in Life.
00:26:59
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abeceda.co.uk. There is a link in the description. If you are starting over, one of the savvy things you might like to do is make sure that you are healthy because knowing the risks early is an important part of maintaining good health.
00:27:18
Speaker
That is why we recommend the annual health test from York Test. York Test provides an assessment of 39 different health markers, including cholesterol, diabetes, vitamin D, vitamin B12, liver function, iron deficiency, inflammation, and a full blood count.
00:27:37
Speaker
The annual health test is conducted by an experienced phlebotomist who will complete a full blood draw at your home or workplace. And then hospital standard tests are carried out in a UK AS accredited and CQC compliant laboratory.
00:27:53
Speaker
You can access your easy to understand results and guidance to help you make effective lifestyle changes anytime via your secure personal wellness hub. There is a link and a discount code in the description.
00:28:08
Speaker
If you've experienced technical difficulties whilst listening to Reston Recreation, you will want to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data. So listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering.
00:28:22
Speaker
There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
00:28:34
Speaker
I am sure you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Rest and Recreation as much as Caroline and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:28:48
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abbasida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to have made you think.
00:29:02
Speaker
Until the next episode of Rest and Recreation, thank you for listening and goodbye.