Transcript
Speaker: on zencastr Hello and welcome to Rest and Recreation, the work-life balance podcast from Abbasida. I am your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida.
Speaker: Today i am going to be having a conversation with Michelle Clifton. Michelle is a writer and the creator of the Taryn O'Kelley Mysteries.
Speaker: Michelle is going to be explaining how you create a literary character and then how you create the mysteries that that character solves. As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, Rest on Recreation is made on Zencastr.
Speaker: Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform that really does make every stage of the podcasting production process from recording to distribution so easy.
Speaker: If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com using the link in the description. There is a built-in discount. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one.
Speaker: One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to. As with every other episode of Rest and Recreation, we won't be telling you what to think or what to do, but we are hoping to make you think.
Speaker: Today's Rest and Recreation guest is Michelle Clifton, an author and a mom and all sorts of various different other roles Michelle is based in Cape Coral, which is in Florida.
Speaker: It's the sort of name that conjures up all sorts of exotic outdoorsy types of images and all American type lifestyle. I've got images of Calvin Klein and Ralph Lauren and the Gap type adverts. I'm sure you know what I mean.
Speaker: When I travel to Florida, I make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club because as a member of the Ultimate Travel Club, I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, trains, package holidays and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
Speaker: You can also access those trade prices on travel by joining the Ultimate Travel Club. There is a link in the description which has a built-in discount. Now that I've paid some bills, it is time to make an episode of Rest and Recreation and say hello, Michelle. Hi, Michael. Thank you for having me Oh, thank you for very much for being a guest. But I always warn people, you know, you're thanking for having you as a guest on recation Rest and Recreation and we haven't really started yet.
Speaker: True. but i still I mean, i'm right I'm speaking to someone who writes murder mysteries. So, you know, you never know what might happen. That is true. I have a mug that I carry around that says, be careful what you say.
Speaker: You might end up in a book.
Speaker: Oh, now you've got me worried. You've got me worried. Oh, crikey. What am I going to you What am to Oh, I think we better find out when you've made those sorts of like threatening comments, you know,
Speaker: Tell us the tell us a bit about who Michelle Clifton is. What's your backstory and the life that you've led? And how did you end up living in in an exotic sounding place like Cape Coral?
Speaker: Well, I grew up in Southwest Colorado. A piece of me will always love that place. It's gorgeous mountains. I'm an outdoor kind of girl that just grew up hiking and camping and hunting there.
Speaker: I found the love of my life, my husband. We've been married 26 years and he is the most supportive, amazing man and kind of lets me do whatever I want with all my crafty, creative dreams.
Speaker: My previous jobs were in the theater and dance industry, partly because my daughter was training to be a point ballerina. And it kind of fit for me to just go and start working in that industry. And I fell in love with it.
Speaker: Costuming, hair, makeup, management, you name it, creativity was just at the root of my world. And we also homeschooled both of our kids, which also adds another layer of creativity and trying to kind of keep up with,
Speaker: what they should know and how to keep activities going, things like that. All during that, I always wanted to write. So I started writing a book and I kept shelving it. I'll get back to it. I'll get back to it at some point because being a mom was what was important.
Speaker: Eventually, once my kids graduated high school, that kind of internal calling to be an author kind resurfaced. It was like dust the novel off, let's finish telling the story that you wanted to tell 20 years earlier. Basically, once once the kids graduated, I decided, know what, this is what I'm doing. I'm gonna put the theater, all of that behind me, it's much fun and how much passion I had for it.
Speaker: And I am gonna become a full-time author and I am going to tell these stories that my characters in my head are saying we need the world to see. So quite a determined lady then. I am. My husband has says I have like a hyper focus whenever I've decided I'm going to do something. He's like, I just kind attack it. And yeah, that is kind of my personality.
Speaker: One thing that that is interesting, though, is that you decided to become a novelist. Even though you've got all of this experience in the theater, you decided to become a novelist rather than a playwright.
Speaker: True. I personally love reading cozy mysteries, kind of the romantic rom-coms, regular murder mysteries. because i like I like getting away from technology. I like being outside and i don't know about you, but when you're outside on your devices, it's hard to read on the screen. I like a real book in my hand and just sit outside, listen to nature and enjoy a mystery or a puzzle to solve.
Speaker: And so while I really love the idea of a screen, right, I would love to have movies made. I think the books were just a little closer to nature for me. Novels were the thing that interested you before you got involved with the theatre, which led you to being a novelist rather than a playwright. Yes, absolutely. I didn't read a lot as a young child, but later in high school and then as a young adult, when you have two little babies.
Speaker: nap time happens and you're tired yourself, books become a very good best friend. and know what you mean. You can lose yourself and go to all sorts of places with your best friend if your best friend is a book.
Speaker: Absolutely. What's the connection between Michelle Clifton and your website, which is called SaltyInspirations.com? So Salty Inspirations is my publishing name and I started it as a kind of a precursor to learning how to self-publish.
Speaker: I like to kind of research everything before I get involved in anything, kind of get some ideas, see where my strengths and my weaknesses might be. And I started Salty Inspirations kind of as a blog. And I actually published um a few journals and some gratitude journals, some self-guided kind of things like that first, and actually a choreography book, you know, to help choreographers keep track of the dance moves that they've written.
Speaker: i started all that first just to kind of get my toes in the self-publishing world, understand what it was that was expected of me and how I could actually produce a novel. So you really are quite an entrepreneur as well as an author.
Speaker: I'd like to say There's no problem with being an entrepreneur and an author. There's an awful lot of people who we do it and are very good at it. And I ah totally agree with you that before you embark on any type of activity, you should make sure that you you've got yourself trained in how to do it. You you understand how it should be done.
Speaker: Yeah. it was kind of an experimental starting and then it ended up just being the perfect foundation and we decided to go ahead and keep it because it's that it's just fun. You had the opportunity to write romances, but you decided to write crime, murder novels instead.
Speaker: Why go down the but the gory side of publishing the the murders? Why go down that route? Well, actually, are cozy mysteries, which are not gory. I have romance in them. So yes, murder is awful. I mean, nothing about murder is good.
Speaker: But the fun thing about a cozy mystery or a rom cozy, because I have a lot of romance intertwined, so it's kind of like a romance mystery. The fun thing about the cozies is that there isn't anything gory or graphic in any of the murders that happen.
Speaker: It's a body that's been found. And of course, that's tragedy. But it's kind of lighthearted tragedy. Does that make sense? It's more like a ah kind of funny. There's humorous, silly things that happen that are utterly ridiculous and stuff that you can get away with that you were doing like a true thriller or through true a true crime type mystery.
Speaker: We have to get into those deep, dredgy, gory details of what happened. So these might all have very, very dark underlining events that if you were to really focus on that specific portion of it, it could be a very sad story.
Speaker: But if you lighten it up with comedy and silly things that happen and the people that are being murdered bad people. I mean, not trying to do all the judgy kind of thing, but they're not people you root for. It's not like you're going to get an innocent person.
Speaker: that has been kidnapped and killed in these types of books. These books are usually somebody who's not a very nice person. And usually it's somebody that kind of has what's coming to them, but you still need to know what's, you still need to solve the crime because no matter how much sugarcoat it, murder is murder and it shouldn't happen. That's true. That's where the cozy part comes in That's where it kind of makes it a little more fun.
Speaker: and a little more um exciting instead of that dark, gory. I understand. So you've gone down the route of having one main character protagonist, who's Taryn O'Kelly as well. She's a party planner and an amateur solver of murder mysteries.
Speaker: Why did you decide to have the one character? It was Taryn's story that I felt like needed to be told. When I started kind of creating her and dreaming her up, if you will, I just had this kind of voice in my head, Taryn's voice saying, hey, I want to tell this story. I think we could make a great series out of this. I think I'm a pretty fun character.
Speaker: And i think that people will really enjoy my perspective on solving murders because she's an inexperienced murder solver. She's an amateur sleuth. She plans parties for a living, which is, you know, fun fun things, colorful things, exciting events, you know, glamorous stuff. She's not in the nitty gritty of the murdering, you know, that type of stuff. She's always on the right side of the tracks.
Speaker: She's just a good girl. She doesn't want to do anything that's not right in her mind of her moral code. But her best friend, who is also the most wonderful best friend you could ask for, is a little on the riskier side of life.
Speaker: And she tries to keep Taryn to not be, you know, like a 60-year-old, 26-year-old. She tries to let her be like a little bit younger. Come on, you know that you... you want to have a little fun and she kind of pulls her out of her shell. It's not that they do bad things because they don't, but she kind of gives her a level of bravery where Taryn really feels like she needs to be this good girl and that she needs to do these things because eventually she'll find the right man.
Speaker: She'll get married and she'll have kids. So her best friend, Candace, she's a little, she's a little saltier. She's a little, little riskier. And so they kind of make a nice little duo, but they've been best friends since kindergarten. And, um, you follow Taryn's,
Speaker: life throughout these series with Candice by her side. And then she does have two love interests, an ex love and a future love that want to reveal too much because you need to read both books.
Speaker: But eventually, in the long run, Taryn will eventually get her happy, happy ending at the end of the whole series where, you know, everything that she's working for, all the hard work that she's put into creating her own business as a party planner,
Speaker: will eventually pay off. Obviously there'll be some bodies along the way, and some mysteries she's gonna have to solve, but I think it just gives her a little spice to her life that maybe otherwise wouldn't have been.
Speaker: One of the things I know that is important to you is that the story should have a happy ending. I suppose it's okay to sort of like know that eventually she will have the life that she really wants, but it's how she gets to have that life that makes the story.
Speaker: Absolutely. And each book does have a happy ending. And it's not so much a happy happy for now style ending. That's actually term a lot of romance writers will have a happily ever after or happy for now.
Speaker: Each book does end happily. You're not left with this underlying feeling of, oh, that was awful. Or, oh my gosh, what's going to happen next?
Speaker: It ends in a way that everybody can be satisfied. The mystery is solved. Taryn's happy. Her friends and family are safe. And they're on for another another adventure. enough each Each book is its own adventure. So they do all end happily. But the bigger the bigger journey for Taryn will be that official, found the right man, I'm married, and I have my kids. Because for me, that was my happily ever after, was finding the love of my life, having two amazing children,
Speaker: and now living this life. So in some ways, Taryn's life mirrors yours, but in others, it's quite different as well. How is Taryn's life different to yours?
Speaker: What do we need to know about Taryn before we read the first book? Taryn is 26 years old. She used to work for an orthodontist. And she just felt like she needed a little bit of adventure in her life. She loved working children and on their teeth. You know, she was fine with that.
Speaker: After suffering a sad engagement breakup, she wanted to change a little bit different direction in her life and decided to open her own party planning business where she would plan other people's happy memories, happy moments.
Speaker: because her wedding that she was supposed to get to have didn't happen. And so she decided that she would focus on making other people's lives happy. That would make her happy along with it.
Speaker: So for her, it was just to enjoy other people's happiness, to celebrate celebrate other people's joys, whether it's a wedding or a company 4th of July picnic, a Christmas party, anything that would make other people happy, she was very she is very happy to you know participate in it.
Speaker: So she's living her life through other people then? Absolutely. That must give you the opportunity to have some very interesting plots. It does. And in book one there are quite a few different twists and turns. And then you'll understand, obviously I can't say too much without giving it away, but a lot of twists and turns and things that actually pull from her past and her sadness from the relationship she originally had, it fell apart.
Speaker: And then how you you can see how she gets to where she's at by living through other people's lives and planning parties. And then you all can see her meet a new love interest. It has to be said that if Taryn is good at one thing apart from solving murders, the one other thing that she is really good at is selecting the wrong men. Well, yes, she has had that trouble. She's only had the one breakup, the one problem.
Speaker: The current love interest looks to be pretty promising, though. You say that, but yet to be convinced. I am convinced. I know what's going to happen. But I don't want to tell you as readers to know just because I do feel like I want to keep a few things in my pocket.
Speaker: So I won't be able to explain all of that to you just yeah Oh, I think you're very good at sort of like keeping us waiting for all the various different twists and turns within the plot.
Speaker: And I do think the current man is much better than the previous man, but it's still a little bit in the balance. I would agree with you 100%. have a great perspective on it because you're absolutely right. The the current man is much better than the previous man. Yeah.
Speaker: Let's move on because they're all set in glamorous type locations a little bit, I suppose, like Coral Bay cruise ships and you parties that are glamorous and and all those sorts things. It is cozy and it's affluent, isn't it?
Speaker: Yes. But at the same time, Taryn is not in those situations because she's entitled to be in them, because she's got the money to be there. She's spending other people's money to be in those glamorous locations. So there's an element of her being an interloper in some ways. She's staff at the party, not a guest at the party.
Speaker: Absolutely. But she does take pride in what she does. She loves this. she She calls herself a special kind of crazy because she absolutely enjoys the meticulous planning.
Speaker: She enjoys making sure people's special events are as near perfect as they possibly can be. So it's kind of a little bit of an emotional high for her as well because she takes it so seriously and so to heart. She loves giving other people their happy fairytale endings.
Speaker: So being a staff member, yeah It's true, but in her mind, it's not just just a staff member. It's I'm helping create a special moment for these people. I expect everyone who works in hospitality should perhaps have that sort of attitude. And like, these people are coming for a meal. It's not just because they're hungry, they're celebrating something. And you can make that celebration even more special.
Speaker: You see, there I am with my HR professionals hat on. I like it. And I think I agree i agree with you completely. And that's kind of the persona that I try to portray with Taryn. She's passionate about what she does. She loves it. And that's part of the reason she started her own company. It wasn't because she just decided, hey, I don't want to you know work in the dental office anymore.
Speaker: I'm just going to be some young kid that does this. it's It was a passion and a um ability, ah unique ability that she had that she turned into this that she absolutely enjoys.
Speaker: The sleuthing, you'll find that she's reluctant in these first couple of books. She doesn't really want to investigate murder, but she kind of gets thrown into it. It's that attention to detail that she has in terms of organising the party. the so i say That bit isn't absolutely perfect, therefore it needs to change. That attention to detail seems to be one of the things that equip her to be the sleuth to solve the murders, even though, like you say, she is not exact. Well, most of us, I suppose, if presented with a situation, would be dialing the 911 call
Speaker: ah nine one one in the US or 999 here in the UK and telling a police officer to look what's happened get on solve it we wouldn't be interfering but she's drawn to that she has to doesn't she she has to yeah be involved in some ways there's a similarity in that respect between her and one of Agatha Christie's characters Miss Marple's reluctant spinster who doesn't seem to have a job in any of the novels but She comes across as not wanting to be involved, but cannot not be involved.
Speaker: Exactly. And Taryn is a little bit that way as well. I think so far through this so the series, it's starting to get a little more interesting because she's getting a couple under her belt and it's kind of starting to maybe be like a side thing that she sort of half enjoys, but she doesn't really want to admit it just yet.
Speaker: That's what she does on the side. It's more like, I don't know why, but I'm becoming a body magnet and things keep happening to me when all I want to do is just plan a party and have a great time.
Speaker: but People seem need me in a different light, ah a different setting than she ever could have expected. It's almost like if you get a party invitation and you find out that the party's been organized by Taryn O'Kelly, have something else you need to do on that particular day, because there's going to be something happening at that party and you don't want it happening to you.
Speaker: Absolutely. Actually, I had a very good friend say that to They're like, you know, I really love Taryn. but After a while, I think I'd be scared to hang out with her. That is one of the issues, though, with by being an amateur sleuth, is that whether you find the murder or the murder finds you, or which way round does it seem does it seem to work? She just like ends up in situations where these bad things happen, and and she then it is drawn to helping to solve them.
Speaker: Absolutely. That's exactly how it goes. Her best friend though, Candace, is a little more excited about it. And she lets you know that in each of the stories. She's like, well, I think we should do this.
Speaker: I think we should investigate that. And Taryn's always like, hold on um Maybe we should let the police do that. We don't really need to be involved, do we? But then there's that little piece of Taryn inside her that's like, you know, I actually can figure this out. This is a puzzle. I'm sure I can do this.
Speaker: Because she's a mystery puzzle lover herself. So with like you said, her attention to detail helps her, helps pull her in, even though she's reluctant. And then, of course, with the best friend kind of getting too excited about all of the shenanigans that they could possibly have together creates a bit of a bit of comedy.
Speaker: and still throws her in the middle of an unexpected murder. think one of the things with a good story well told is that you can see all sorts of similarities between the characters and the characters of other successful books or plays or films or TV series.
Speaker: And there's an element of Taryn and Candace, which is, know, got a slight bit of the sex in the city type of element to it. Two women who are independent, confident, living their lives, not reliant um on men, but interested in having a male partner, but not dependent upon them. And Taryn and Candace, though they're different characters, are independent, strong,
Speaker: women with their own lives to lead. So in some ways, they're a bit of a role model for younger female readers, I suspect. Oh, absolutely. And they are both very independent and with what they do.
Speaker: um They do support each other very much because they're just, they're very good friends. They're so close that they actually call each other sisters. The books are very clear that they are truly just best friends, but they're the closest level of best friends you could ever ask for. And they are each other's support system and support team.
Speaker: They've never, so far at least in the series, not had to really test that friendship, have they? e No, there's nothing that's ever pulled at their friendship. But in the first book, there is a very stressful situation where they are apart and it does show you the love.
Speaker: that they have for each other and the support they have for each other. So they've never been tested on like, do you, or do you have my back no matter what um per se?
Speaker: But in the first book, there is a section where they are apart from each other. And if they don't have each other's backs, things could happen. Right. Well, I'm sort of predicting that there might be a situation in the future where they do sort of have a bit of a fallout.
Speaker: and And I suspect that that might be a nasty person doing something that creates the doubt in them, which they have to sort of come back and realize that actually what they were told wasn't the truth after all and was all part of the bad person being bad.
Speaker: Very possible. Very possible. I think it could be, yeah. It's also potentially impossible, but it's very possible. It might not actually be possible. You give nothing away, do you? You're proper murderer. I am.
Speaker: A proper murder mystery writer, I mean. A proper murder mystery writer. No, you you have to be careful. If you say too much, then what's the point in getting a chance to read the book and have so much fun with them?
Speaker: Well, that is part of the fun, though, isn't it, of a mystery? It's like, You start the book and you think, oh, I know how this one is going to end. I know, i know I've, I've solved this one already. And then you're into chapter three and you're going and like, well, I never thought of that.
Speaker: How did that happen? and Wow. I know it's realistic, but I'd never, no, I'd never imagined that happening. You know, it's a, you get taken on a ah magical mystery tour when you start reading murder novels.
Speaker: You do, and if I do my job right, which I believe I have. Oh, you have, you have. But I hope I have for you guys, because I can tell you that's exactly what you want as a reader. yes As a reader, you want you want to have somebody to fight for, somebody to believe in and you want to know that you know, there's twists and turns that maybe this isn't the right person. will Maybe this is the right person. And you want to be on this rollercoaster ride with with the person you care about in the story. Yes, true.
Speaker: But the other thing that you need is you need to know, you need to have someone that you're sort painted as, oh, they're the baddie. I know they're the baddie. When it's done well, as you've done it well, it sort of draws you in, I think.
Speaker: You get drawn into the plot and the characters. And it's like, How will this end? I can predict it and then you find out or turn a page and there's a new piece of information which can completely changes the way in which you're viewing this like all the different suspects, shall we say.
Speaker: But to absolutely, they are great books and it's been brilliant having this conversation with you today. Michelle, I'm almost calling you Taryn. that okay I'll respond to Taryn too if you want.
Speaker: Yeah, but it's sort of like the character is a very real character. You bring her to life very well. But I have enjoyed my conversation today and finding out more about the Taryn O'Kelly mysteries. Thank you very much.
Speaker: Thank you so much. i love I love talking about him. I love for people to meet Taryn because I think she's a pretty cool kid. i think she's pretty cool person, and I hope everybody else loves her as much as I do.
Speaker: I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida. In this episode of Rest and Recreation, I have been having a conversation with Michelle Clifton, the creator of the Taryn O'Kelly Mysteries.
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Speaker: I'm sure that you will have enjoyed listening to this episode of Rest and Recreation as much as Michelle and I have enjoyed making it. So please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
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Speaker: Until the next episode of Rest and Recreation, thank you for listening and goodbye.
