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All Bets Are Off - Raining Shame on Gamblers
62 Plays1 year ago
Lance's heroic rant about the excesses of Las Vegas and online sports betting kicks off this episode. Later, Matt joins for a suprisingly thoughful coversation about humanity's deep seeded need to be bad and break the rules.
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Transcript
America's Complicated Relationship with Gambling
00:00:00
Speaker
Does society benefit from the gambling industry? Do you think gambling has been a net positive for America and its citizens? A few American heroes are willing to expend some brain power pondering such questions. My name is Lance and I'm one of those American heroes. My wife calls me the greatest American hero.
00:00:43
Speaker
All bets are off I'm willing to bet many Americans would throw a tantrum if confronted with a question like, is gambling a net positive for society? You might hear people say things like, oh, so we want to be big brother and tell people what to do. Oh, so you want to destroy two million jobs and rob the economy of $300 billion dollars per year. Oh, so people can enjoy a little fun in Las Vegas or make a bet on the home team.
00:01:10
Speaker
Just a question, buddy. It's not like I wrote a bill for Congress to consider. But, defensive American guy has a point. The gambling train has left the building. We made a choice in this country long ago and unwinding legal gambling would be economically painful and overly paternalistic.
00:01:29
Speaker
The prominence of places like Las Vegas, Reno, and Atlantic City, as well as the meteoric rise of online casinos and sports betting apps, makes anyone questioning the merits of gambling sound out of touch. I don't even think America's most righteous evangelical Christians with the word of God in hand would dare attack gambling right now.
00:01:50
Speaker
They're too busy banning books like David Lefithan's novel, Two Boys Kissing. Okay Christians, but the Bible doesn't support snorting coke off of prostitutes' titties either, and yet that's what's happening in Vegas every night, among other naughty things. The point is, I can't make a great argument for unwinding the gambling industry in our country, but I do think all of us should ponder questions like,
00:02:15
Speaker
Has this gambling thing gotten out of control? The forces of profit and growth, if left unchecked, have a way of crystallizing cartoonish norms by exploiting customer vulnerabilities. Here we go again. i hate him Lesson number one, a form of entertainment.
00:02:37
Speaker
The social risks of addiction and long-term financial harm are too high to justify gambling's entertainment value. How many industries exist where customers have full knowledge that they're getting robbed? Is anyone mystified by the fact that casinos stack the odds against you? Is that where the entertainment value comes from?
Psychological Manipulations in Gambling
00:02:55
Speaker
The thrill of getting robbed? Is that why I like to walk the streets of Crenshaw alone at night sometimes?
00:03:03
Speaker
Lance, I know I'm likely to lose, but sometimes I win. Well, that's what psychologists call an intermittent reward system. The unpredictability is so exciting that we can't resist it. Even near wins give us a big dopamine hit. It's a brain vulnerability that gambling operations study and exploit. Lance, Las Vegas is a blast. The shows and the food are amazing. Have you heard of the spear?
00:03:28
Speaker
Yep, I know Vegas is fun. And yet all those cool things exist around an industry that knowingly swindles you out of your money and entices you to abuse other harmful vices like alcohol, drugs, and prostitution, none of which are particularly risk-free. But maybe we should talk about your off-the-wall behavior.
00:03:49
Speaker
You're what they call a real gambler, right? You see that dumpy excuse for a human being mindlessly playing slots and think to yourself, what a total loser. Slots are lame. You trash that chain-smoking oxygen assistant depends wearing waste of space as you suck down another vodka and red bull at the blackjack table talking about, let's do this bro.
00:04:12
Speaker
I love the seriousness on your face because you actually believe you're about to show the your Ron Jeremy letting the towel slip off your body in the doubling your bet. And when you lose a little too much, you're that guy that says, you can't stop me, Caesar's palace. And you sprint to the cashier and get another 2000.
00:04:42
Speaker
And when you lose that money too, you start talking shit and maybe get a little racist and say something like, dude, these Asian dealers are chintzy with the aces.
Alternatives to Gambling for Social Connection
00:04:52
Speaker
We all admire guys like you in comparison to the grand a year and bring 10K to Vegas every March. Think about that fella, you bring 12.5% of your annual salary to Las Vegas because one night in 2015 you had a killer run where you made 6 grand.
00:05:21
Speaker
entertainment is expensive, Lance. It's not about the money, Lance. It's about the social at the table hoots and hollers on high fives. Even when the dealer gets a blackjack, we all sigh together say, you're killing us, Kai Hong!
00:05:41
Speaker
Then Kai Hong smiles at us with apprehension and we all order more drinks. Those are real memories, Lance. Okay, buddy. But I argue that there are other activities where camaraderie exists. Video games, board games, sports leagues, investment clubs, rafting, skydiving, where you're not destroying your finances. But go for it. Make your lifelong friends at the blackjack tables at Harrah's tonight. So mean. Lesson number two. A true sports fan.
00:06:11
Speaker
You love watching sports so much that it makes sense for you to gamble on them. Every time you've got money on a game, you become a better fan. It's called skin in the game, Lance. It really increases my engagement and interest in the sport. Gosh, it sounds like you've been listening to interviews from the NFL's Roger Goodell and the NBA's Adam Silver justifying their sinful partnerships with sports betting companies.
00:06:37
Speaker
I'm guessing you know a lot about sports. You probably make great bets and win all the time. I wonder if DraftKings and FanDuel advertise so much because they need to find customers that are not as savvy as you. Is that why Rustrate, a competitor of DraftKings and FanDuel, saw their stock rise 200% in 2024? There must be too many true sports guys like you making winning bets. So mean! Everything these sports betting companies do is to extract more and more money from you. Bet big and lose, they'll give you a concierge service and a little free money to keep your betting habit going. Why? Because they care about your well-being. No guy, because they want you to continue to make bets and lose.
00:07:21
Speaker
They want you to make parlay bets and bet on silly stuff like whether Patrick Mahomes will scratch his crotch more than three times in the game against the Chargers. They want 100% of your disposable income. They don't want you to go broke. They just want sports betting to be a very important part of your life. The sports betting sites are worse than Las Vegas because you can do it without friction. You can bet on sports all around the world 24-7 and do it without any of the social guardrails you might have in Las Vegas.
00:07:51
Speaker
In Las Vegas, your friend Randy might say, bro, you need to stop gambling. Come on, bro. Let's go to the strip club. My treat. But if you're all alone in your basement making sports bets, there's nobody to keep you from boning yourself. These apps are optimally gamified and inject constant streams of dopamine into your pee brain. And after you mostly lose, you're still desperate to come back. You honestly don't think you have a problem when you drop $900 parlay bets without telling your wife?
00:08:21
Speaker
That's some serious financial infidelity. Not only are you doing something that's terrible for you and your family, but you're hiding it. And the companies pushing this cracked pipe of magic money fun know how vulnerable you are. They know you can't resist. Get those sports betting apps off your phone, close your accounts, try making a $20 cash bet with your father-in-law, and sit back and enjoy razzing him about BYU having too many white boys. my god what Lesson number three, talk about jobs and charity. how my Every time someone questions a harmful industry, someone always makes the jobs argument. Why is it so hard for you people to envision an alternate economic reality where we have net positive industries creating lots of jobs? You want to create a utopia Lance.
00:09:10
Speaker
So what you actually mean by utopia is, I want to create something that's impractical. So it's practical to permanently house 700,000 people and invite 40 million temporary visitors to a desert-scape wasteland that sources 90% of its water from a river that is drying up faster than a woman hitting Was that about menopause? Why couldn't Vegas be the center of the world's solar production? Seems practical for a hot, sunny desert that's four hours from one of the most populated areas in the US to produce some serious solar energy. What? What is he saying? What about the lottery, Lance? Money from the lottery goes to good causes.
00:09:48
Speaker
Yes, money from mostly poor people is redirected to random causes, the most ironic of which is Massachusetts' Compulsive Gamblers Fund. However, in states like Colorado, a tree hugger like me
Native American Casinos: Justice or Exploitation?
00:10:01
Speaker
gets excited about more money going to parks and wildlife, because I love the idea of low-income people funding wildlife resources that only early retirees like me have time to access.
00:10:12
Speaker
The only net social benefit to playing the state lottery is when you get that two minutes of fantasy as you and your loved ones ponder the question, what if we win? But, statistically speaking, if you were to win, you'd probably go broke and become estranged from the very person you're having that jackpot fantasy with.
00:10:32
Speaker
in the words of Metallica, sad but true. But seriously, how sick is it to remind people about America's exponential income inequality by promoting one billion dollar jackpots to mostly low-income people? It's a cartoonish reflection on our winner-take-all society. He has a point. Well, what about the Native Americans, Lance? Don't the Native Americans rely on profits from reservation casinos?
00:10:59
Speaker
I only approve of Native American casinos as a means to seek retribution for the past evils of the white man. I'm 1-24 Cheyenne River Sioux ancestry and I believe my people have the right to take money for modern day whites via the Native American reservation casino so long as that money is funneled into tribal education programs that inspire my people to hate our white conquerors even more. How's that for critical race theory? In conclusion,
00:11:29
Speaker
Nobody is going to stop you from pissing your money away gambling. But increasingly in this country, we seem to take pride in consuming potentially harmful products and services. Americans take more pride in FanDuel than in the United Way. People think the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation wants to control society by implanting microchips in American citizens. But somehow, the MGM Grand is doing God's work because it hosts UFC events.
00:11:56
Speaker
If that's how we think, America, all bets are off.
00:12:39
Speaker
that the golden age of excess. Hold on, bro. Putting in ah a way parlay. My bet 365 account. Can you give me a couple seconds? Yeah, go for that. And while you're at it, get some dollar sign Trump crypto and some dollar sign Melania. Interesting. They use the dollar sign for this for a crypto coin. and I think that's what crypto is trying to get away with, right? I haven't heard about her currency, their cryptocurrency. Yeah.
00:13:08
Speaker
Oh man, they just dropped it pretty recently. you think they have a team like going like, let's, like the way you'd launch ah like an artist, you know, every, every, what's a, I don't know, give me a name of a pop arts, but they all have like a perfume line. They've got their own like kenrick lamar kendrick Kendrick Lamar. perfume. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah. Like the, the Trumps have like a team most likely, right?
00:13:34
Speaker
Oh, just it's that mindset that got him to where he is of just licensing him as a figurehead, essentially, as a brand is there's a, I think his son's running a company related to crypto, ah Liberty, Liberty something. And this was a part of the plan ticker symbol too. Like there's a company. Oh, that's the, the media company. Yeah. Yeah. So dude, I'm just saying it's no different than all these other whole wearing assholes, Kardashians and not like all this,
00:14:04
Speaker
Like, I mean, it's commendable in a way, right? They're licensing their brand, their name to make money. Yeah, I i wouldn't go that far. What is commendable? Well, I just wouldn't like it. It's the target for many people. Like, sure. Yeah, he's capitalizing on his fame. And he's also supposed to run the most powerful country in the world. But we'll we'll leave that at that. You didn't like my whoring assholes with Kim Kardashian. You didn't like that one. Is that what it was?
00:14:33
Speaker
No, I like that. I just don't okay. I like that I don't I'm not blame or anything. It's not somebody at it I really want to listen to or buy but I'm like, well Whatever she's doing which just seems utterly ridiculous. You're like Seems to be working and so why not be the president? Market your fucked-up personality of the world She was used to get that ass injected a little more plump that thing up even more make it more ridiculous I don't think so. I think that thing is terrible. I want to see it bigger man. a Team of airbrushing and yeah, I think it's terrible. Well, it is the era of excess dude. I won't be happy until like I see Trump's marketing his ass.
00:15:16
Speaker
Yeah, I want oil drills around Old Faithful at Yellowstone. I want oil just like bursting out of the most beautiful canyons in the Grand Canyon. I just want shit to get fucking crazy, boy. I want it to grab instead of Stalin grab.
00:15:33
Speaker
I wanna create the first pollution making machine. There are no machines to create pollution just for the purpose of creating pollution. I wanna create that, stick it in front of my house and just shoot that shit everywhere, let people know. We about excess, boy. ah I think you wanna just push it, push it hard, right? Yeah, I wanna push it hard.
00:16:01
Speaker
Like they do in Vegas, Matt. Like they do in Vegas, segue, biatch. Can I POS ya? My POS is i I bet on sports every day of the year. That's my POS statement. Do you do it every day? dany Yeah. No shit. It's the first thing I do in the morning almost is wake up and check, check, um,
00:16:22
Speaker
is like check, check. I bet on volleyball because one of our guests, if you remember Douglass, he's been working at a sports book down here in Costa Rica, a really big one that like like I'd see on ESPN, they'd use their lines to like quote games. He's been working there for a long time and he turned me on to like an actual sort of a play. yeah The way people look at stock market, when's a good time to get in, when's the time to get out, when's a good time to get your money in based on maybe a discrepancy in the line.
00:16:52
Speaker
And so I've been doing that for a long time. Now, how do you feel about yourself just from a social perspective being invested in that? Because you have a ah line or you have like an advantage. Perceived. Okay, perceived. Okay, you feel like that's a above board behavior or do you feel like you're swimming in the sewer a little bit here with this behavior? No, I feel above board. I mean, i don' I'm not saying that it's,
00:17:22
Speaker
Because if i if I was swimming in the weeds on this, it was a real addiction problem. I mean i know people, I've seen people that like, even if they won, like if if they had a ah like ah sort of a system they follow and they won, they can't keep the money.
00:17:37
Speaker
Like they can't do it because they're going to be like, oh, I won, I won 80 bucks playing a volleyball game in Italy yesterday. But the national championship game was the, ah was last night. So I rolled it into this, you know, the, the major sports, like it's almost impossible to beat. Like you're not going to beat the NBA because these guys, these handicappers that work for the sports books, that's what they do, right? You're not just going to beat them. I mean, a few people do it, but, um,
00:18:03
Speaker
So I feel that would like you have to control it. It's just like anything else, like in moderation, it's probably okay. But what I don't like is it does affect me still. Like it does affect me. Even a bad day, even if it's like I ah hedge my losses, it affects me in like my mood emotionally.
Addiction and Personal Stories
00:18:21
Speaker
It's like part of it, part of what ah what goes into how how my day was, was if if I made money today gambling.
00:18:30
Speaker
is Is it at all like a compulsion, similar to maybe something that we would consider benign, like drinking coffee, where you got to get up, you got to like, okay, this is just a part of my day. See what kind of opportunities we have. And I'm not, believe me, I'm not trying to make a pathway to you you having an addiction. I just want to see what level of connection you have to this thing.
00:18:51
Speaker
You know, do you remember back when you were working? Do you remember that? Yes, sir. Did you wake up and like reluctantly but religiously at the same time, check your email? where you wake up and look at either your phone or your computer. it's I kind of feel like that. It's not like a bad thing, but you're also like, kind of do this. It's so it's distracting. It's like yahoo finance, right? It's going there. Yeah. It's that sort of like ball and chain, but not nothing. that It's not like you're not going to get, well, some gamblers probably get treated like it's not like I woke up and took a hit of crack or something, but it's like, I got to do this. But, but.
00:19:30
Speaker
I mean, I don't know. It's like anything else you can justify. I haven't put my own money in in like years. I haven't put money into this account in years. I've taken money out occasionally. Um, so I would say it's a hobby. It's a hobby. There are times I think that I can make it a, uh, I should make it a consider a considerable part of my monthly budget. Okay. Damn. But then some Slovakian bitches decide to not show up.
00:19:58
Speaker
And then all of a sudden I can't, can't set the ball. Bitch. Exactly. So, um, I don't know. I mean, I've seen bad gambling behavior, but it's, it's all this, it's like everyone, if you have a problem with gambling, you probably are susceptible, like a lot of other problems too. Right. And what do you think about that, dude? Cause I'm obviously, I went on a rant, a super embellished rant, talking a lot of shit about gambling.
00:20:27
Speaker
Like how big the industry is and how much bigger it's getting, at least from an online perspective. Does any of that, do you do you think to yourself, eh, well, that's what people want. Or do you go, hmm, just you as a person, are you like, wow. I think it's ridiculous. It's like so hypocritical. Okay. Because you have like, I don't know, like scandals, like Pete Rose or just gambling scandals. And like, you can't watch, it's not just in the US actually. If you watch a Champions League soccer game or like EPL,
00:20:57
Speaker
or you're you're getting pummeled with Bet365 advertisements and like, so it's so intertwined with actual sport now. it's It's like, it's crazy. But it's always like, just have some fun with your friends, bet on the game. yeah But I mean, I have a lot of feelings about it. I still think it's kind of funny, like,
00:21:18
Speaker
I've been like before now, I don't, I don't really bet on anything, but like, all right, I'm, I like college football. So I bet on college football, but I wake up on a Saturday and just look at two teams. I didn't never like, I didn't really think much of, and I do some, some research, like three minutes of research, just going like, all right, this is the records. This is they played. There's a handicap or I trust. I look at his line and then I bet the game, right? And if I won, it would be like, uh,
00:21:46
Speaker
Yeah, I figured it out. And like, I would, I would feel like I was the fucking mad scientist. It's just like, well, I see things that other betters don't. I mean, I just see the angles, you know, that's, that's what it was. And then if you lose, it's like those fucking cocksucker, you know, it's just like, uh, you didn't, they didn't do what they're supposed to, but there's no, it's just like picking lottery numbers or something. Like if somebody picked a lottery number and was like, I won because I'm skilled at picking lottery, you'd be like, no, you're not fucking moron.
00:22:16
Speaker
Right? like Right. There's that aspect, but it totally affects you like that way. So the exhilaration is pretty dope. When it happens and you're like, ah, I beat, I won this. And it's like a, it's a fun game for you. It's a hobby. It's it it was, but now this is like work now. Like what I'm doing, like what do this is like some of it for him too. Like it's work, like finding the, finding lines where that you might have an advantage.
00:22:41
Speaker
It is definitely work like the way you'd look pick stocks or like a day trader would work or an option trader Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well So, okay, but I gotta tell you this dude. You're asking me about the industry, right? Yeah, I'll tell you my experience with it. This is how fucked up it is and this is why You I mean everybody should know as an adult. Okay, you know the old sayings like they didn't they didn't They didn't build Vegas by people winning money, right? It's like Vegas is this crazy place. Cause they built it up with people losing over and over and over again. And I think you mentioned then the thing they, they, they treat you good cause they want to keep you there. Cause they know the law, the games are the averages you're going to lose. Like they're going to, they're going to win over time a lot and same with sports betting. But if you actually, there are are a few people that like are mathematicians or whatever.
00:23:33
Speaker
that they work really hard and they find a way to win. But you know to be a good better in sports, but you might win 58% of the time. That's the spread. like no one No one wins 80 or 9% of the time. It's like a very small percentage. But with this volleyball thing,
00:23:50
Speaker
When I first started, it it like the theme women's volleyball, NCAA volleyball, we started on August 25th. And so my friend told me about this. And so we started betting. This is probably like six or seven years ago. And by September 10th or 11th, we had six grand in our account. we We put like a couple hundred bucks in because we didn't believe it.
00:24:07
Speaker
And basically if you win if you actually and we're just betting like obviously I'm not fixing games i'm not sending money if it's college girls or Italian volleyball players or anything We're just betting but we see a line that we think that it's not as expensive as they as it should be I'm getting on my tangents, but just say Alabama football was playing the school of minds, right? Alabama is going to win 100% of the time. Yeah. Yeah. So to win on a money line to to bet on Alabama, it should be like um an amount of money that you wouldn't do. It should be like a million bucks to win a hundred bucks because they're not going to lose. But you have these, you have these things in volleyball, but
00:24:47
Speaker
But they don't price it correctly. So sometimes it'll be like 800 bucks to win a hundred on a on a game. That's a guaranteed win Now in your head, you're like, well, that's 800 bucks who's gonna bet that but it's like a sure thing, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so you can do parlays where you where you put three or four three or four short things together and then it'd be and then each time you parlay a game you it lowers to like so it could be like 200 bucks to win a hundred bucks on something that you're pretty fucking sure it's gonna win and so um So we're doing that, right? But if you win on a sports book consistently, they they don't they real they just think you you you're something shady's happening, so they basically regulate your account. They're like, you can't bet that much anymore. So that's how fucked up it is. If you actually win consistently, yeah they just throttle back your account so you can't bet.
00:25:37
Speaker
That's what I said in my rant. And they do the same thing in Vegas with obviously card counters. and Like ban you from, yeah. Yeah, they find you and they come and then they ban you. And then you keep, if you're a professional guy, you'll just keep moving on and on. The sports books, like, yeah, I mean, these guys are just, I mean, there are fixers, people that are paying people, especially like in fucked up countries and stuff, but like, you're just betting. Like we're still betting. We still lose.
00:26:04
Speaker
But just that it appears that we have a slight advantage, they regulate the account. And so we know some people that like, so every year, the goal is to get new accounts. So you gotta be like, I tried to do it with you, right? It's like Lance, let's get on, I don't remember. They didn't put the games up in Colorado, but like, you know you have an infinite amount of time to win. So you'll be like, all right, we got three weeks, let's blow it up. And then they throttle the account or they restrict your account. It's just crazy though to think like,
00:26:35
Speaker
their billion dollar, multi-billion dollar companies, if you're actually winning, they're like, nope, that doesn't that doesn't work. Right, they're not in the business of supporting. How's that legal?
00:26:46
Speaker
how How is it? That's what I said in this rant, dude. It's like, so there's so there's no desire to support winners, obviously. ah It just doesn't fit the business model. So the business model, I think, the justifiable business model is the entertainment value and that it's fun. Like in commercials, everyone jumping up and down. and eating Yeah, it's fun to essentially, I think in the business's mind, to have occasional winners, occasional big winners,
00:27:14
Speaker
and provide that level of excitement. I talked about intermittent reward systems and just how humans were susceptible to that. so the be But the behavior around it in both Vegas and then then in terms of the betting, the human behavior around it is what I find most funny.
00:27:31
Speaker
ah Because we we all know, we know we go to Vegas, we know it's set up for us to not be successful, but when you walk into a casino, and if you just step back and you start paying attention to people and how they act, and we've seen our own friends and and maybe even ourselves, I will make fun of myself in a minute, or I'll make fun of myself in a minute, it is fucking hilarious. Just like- So if you're a casino, it's whatever, whoever discovered it, I don't know if you did the research, when did all this shit start?
00:28:03
Speaker
It must be so fun to watch, right? So they they they litter the entire casino with slot machines and then they have ah a small space effectively on a relative basis for tables because the tables aren't as profitable.
00:28:18
Speaker
but they're also the most fun and they attract a lot of people. And you know what you do in between like table gambling, ah you'll walk by a stupid slot, we've all done it. And you fucking, yeah let drive on you drop bucks in 20 bucks in, or then maybe you get hooked a little bit in there. And those slots are just like,
00:28:36
Speaker
They're just like sucking your money on an intermittent basis if you're a normal person. now Obviously, every one of the slobs I was referencing in my rant, you're sitting at those slots all day long, chain smoking. But but I find the guys that are really desperate to like prove their gambling prowess to be so fucking funny. I enjoy it. I enjoy watching it.
00:29:00
Speaker
Uh, do you see him? Look, even a normal person, you and I, I mean, I don't know what would be your max, like a thousand bucks you might go and table gamble with, uh, right now. No, but, uh, well, like if I, if I.
00:29:16
Speaker
Oh, that's a, that's a hard one to what? Yeah. I mean, that's a hard one because it's like you, you set a number, but who sticks to that? That's well it's just when you see the guy at a $25 table, who's got a hundred dollar chips. I just like, okay, what's going on with this, this guy? Like what is that money meaningful to him? Is that where he's got to get his, his rocks off? It has to be a little bit higher. I find that to be, to be interesting. And then the surrounding behavior in Vegas.
00:29:45
Speaker
If you walk the streets, it's like everybody wants to just dress much more provocative and have some sort of crazy experience of debauchery. And it's quite fascinating and and fun to look at. I don't want to participate in it, but it's really fucking fun to look at.
00:30:04
Speaker
It's crazy that there's that many people, what we might say normal people that I have, but it's to go completely off the fucking deep end. Seriously. Sexually or game working. Coke lines. Yeah. Yeah, dude. Like some housewife from Houston or something that's going to dress like a total hooker and be like, I'm in Vegas. Woo. Party or a guy who's just deviant. You know, you're like, who is this fucking guy? he he's We go hard, dude. When we go to Vegas, we go hard. yeah like um on Dude, I got this dildo, dude. We're going to get a hooker, bro. I'm going to show you what I'm going to do with this. I mean, just crazy thinking, crazy behavior. it's ah I don't know. What do you think? You think that's, I mean, to play devil's advocate, do you think
00:30:49
Speaker
It's just like acknowledge that humans are fucked up and it's actually good. Like give them a space to do that somewhere. Like you hear, I don't know. What is it? I've heard of tribes that are like, what is it? I don't know if it was Africa or something. It's a tribe where basically like a week of the year, they just like sleep around in their tribe. It's like, but they'd look at it as just like a way to get rid of. Demons. Get rid of the demons. More like you have every, like, okay. Everyone's looked at someone else and be like, well, it's a attractive person. they They look at it as like a way to get,
00:31:19
Speaker
get it out of your system. You think it's good to like go to Vegas, like the saying, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Go there, be a fucking idiot and then come back to reality. It's like there's something to that, you know? Because apparently a lot of people need it.
00:31:34
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know scientifically, like the the benefits, the social benefit or the you know psychological benefit and internally of doing that kind of thing. I don't see it as a particularly healthy thing for society for us to want to escape to that level. what do you But are you running from something there or are you running towards something like that? That's what I wonder, like, OK, every person that goes there that has a wild weekend, is it because their lives in shambles or is it like human nature?
00:32:05
Speaker
that's That's a great question. And if it's human nature, my question was, does it need to play out this way and in such a harmful way to people's finances? And then also, I have no desire at all. I can honestly say this. It's not like, oh, he's trying to like, I have no desire at all.
00:32:27
Speaker
go have a fucking weekend of the battery in Vegas. Like if I never go back to Vegas, I can not care. Right, right. Yeah, but you know, I would say that that it fuels people's addictions on multiple levels, ah both for the act of gambling and also the devices surrounding it, which I find interesting that we are we allow an industry with that much potential. Let me use my term, negative externalities. So that many consequences to society.
Vegas Adventures and Social Dynamics
00:32:55
Speaker
So as I think you could go get that same emotional jolt or risky behavior by going rafting in a class four rapid or a class four rapids are going, being dropped like your buddy, Chris off a helicopter and snowboard, something. Now, not everybody's athletic. So what are the yeah Vegas guy, the guy who loves Vegas, like fucking idiots doing
00:33:17
Speaker
like Well, yeah, what what are you what are you doing out there risking your life? You know, it's an interesting question. I think it does meet a need for people that maybe don't see themselves doing some of that more athletically risky stuff. What's the yeah what's the mountain climbing without a free solo, like free soloing? Yeah, be like a guy who likes to play poker and you're trying to sell them on how you can get that rush by free soloing. They may like that by ice climbing. And I think Like I would never in a million years go skydiving. Right, right. So this is, it's filling a need. I think it's funny though, just the, what people are willing to do. Cause I was referencing a guy that takes like 12 and a half percent of his annual salary to Vegas, which is fairly common. There's a certain type of person that's just like this mindset of where I'm going big, I'm going big and they have no,
00:34:16
Speaker
It's like impossible if you're that personality to know what enough is. So dude goes out, you you you know how it is. You can have a run. What? You're up 2000, then what? What are you about? What do you like? So Vegas knows that there's really no end to it for people. I mean, have you ever either been there? Vegas is pretty fucked up because have you ever been there? A, all right, you're there for a weekend. The first three hours you hit, like, especially when when you're young, you're like, um I got 300 bucks. If the first 15 minutes doesn't go well,
00:34:47
Speaker
I'm going to be it's like, what are you going to do? So either a you you just get cleaned out and then you just the friend that's walking around kind of like watching everyone else. And you're just like, no, sorry, Ken can't do that. And then you're like, ah, fuck, I'm going to go get 60 more bucks. And you kind of piece mail it together and you end up losing probably double triple what you want wanted to. So you got that you're stuck there. You're like, what am I going to do? And the other thing is like, all right, you come out on fire, you win. It's almost it's guaranteed that you're not taking that home.
00:35:14
Speaker
Oh no, like you get lucky and hit a slot or you hit a, you hit a, you hit a, whatever, a roulette or some bullshit. If you're smart, you go have a filet mignon with your buddies using that money. Like that would, that's kind of like the ideal Vegas experience. And then you gamble away your, your principal value the rest of the time and you go to zero there, but at least you got that high high end meal. That's pretty much what you could do. What? It's so weird. I mean, I, I used to love,
00:35:43
Speaker
I like going to casino. I like playing poker, but i but I mean, I like playing blackjack and shit. And I haven't done it probably like 20 years. But like, it's just so funny. The prop is the value proposition. Yeah, it's so weird. I'm gonna go there. It's okay, for some reason, because I'm in this place, whether it's Vegas or Central City or somewhere. And I know I'm gonna lose, but I'm just gonna give my money.
00:36:03
Speaker
You are and you're gonna say and after you're gonna say who gives a fuck dude? It's fucking Vegas. It's the same feeling. I i feel like shit dude Have you ever left Vegas and felt good? Even not even if you won or had a good but but you can justify it Which is the most amazing behavioral thing to me and it's sort of like you could justify a disgusting feeling you might get going into a strip club. Remember when you're younger, it's like you're in there and you're like, yeah, this isn't a, I don't know, this doesn't seem like a ah rational place to be. It doesn't seem like a healthy place to be, but you're just like, oh, fucking Vegas. Fuck yeah yeah yeah yeah. Look at me. yeah Let me get another drink. And then the access to which you're you're willing to drink to kind of
00:36:45
Speaker
perpetuate the evening in Vegas. Like I stayed up all night one night and it took me like two, two fucking days to recover. Cause that's just not who I am. But Vegas brought that upon Lance. Oh yeah. Many times, dude. I mean, I never, I don't think I've ever gone to sleep there before.
00:37:02
Speaker
like sun sunlight, even when I went there with my wife, yeah. Yeah, but that's, what environment, what environment allows ah people to just like reach a pinnacle of debauchery? I just, that to me is hilarious. It's not just the gambling, like even the people are like, no, I like it because of the shows and the food. Like when in your life you're like, this weekend I need to eat 10 four-star meals and go see six shows.
00:37:30
Speaker
It's like, why? You know, I saw a blue man group. I saw Wayne Newton. And I saw Cirque du Soleil. And then I saw Celine Dion. And then we had a $50 buffet as grade eight crab legs. And then I was like, but why? What are you doing? Yeah, it's it's just pretty crazy. But I just I don't know, dude, like, I just don't have any desire to But didn't you enjoy the permission though, when you're younger of it? When I was 21, the first trip I went there with two of my friends and his dad, it was one of the greatest weekends ever. Like we had so much fun. Yeah. But I just turned 21. Okay. Yeah. So it's. It didn't even feel like the battery. It was just like a fun, it was like a fucking, they could have made a movie about it. Yeah. I mentioned like a coming of age movie where they would have made it like,
00:38:22
Speaker
you know, then at the end we found some girls or something and we were like, so you're going back to Seattle, huh? You know, it's like, whatever. Like you'd be, I don't know, and cut this out, I don't like this part. But yeah, but it it didn't feel like debauchery. It wasn't like I was shooting heroin into a hooker's fucking face or it was just like, we were like having fun and I remember we were like, oh shit, I remember we were like, fuck, it was like,
00:38:48
Speaker
The first time I ever i we were still out like driving around and I got the newspaper and I went and I i it was the next day I couldn't fathom it. It was the next day and I got the newspapers and I could see like that the Yankees won the night before. It was like I was reading the newspaper, but I hadn't got home yet. So it didn't make any sense.
00:39:07
Speaker
And it was like, I mean, obviously, I was 21. So I had already partied a lot. It's not like it was the first time I've ever been out past midnight my life. But yeah, but it felt weird. It just I remember going, shitting, we're gonna fuck what we're gonna tell your dad, we get back to the hotel room, and then we got back there like six or seven in the morning, his dad was still out, was still out, like, like in a poker tournament or something like that. And we're like, hey, this is awesome, man. Yeah.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, and that was cool, but like there's people still doing it our age. I've been doing it for 30 years, like five times a year, right, or more. Yeah, and who who who are we or who am I, especially to say that that's wrong? I've had fun with you in Vegas too. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, I
Societal Impact of Legalized Gambling
00:39:48
Speaker
used to think I had a roulette system. I literally thought I had a roulette system. I mean, if I could put in- Was it double down after each one or something? No, it was more of like some numbers based. I felt like if I could fill a certain amount of numbers on the board,
00:40:06
Speaker
and then alternate between the colors a little bit based on what what had come up, which is so asinine, but just fill enough numbers on the board that I could basically play most of the night, maybe never never hit it big, but and you know what kills you? That fucking green, fucking green. The double zeros or whatever it is? Green zero and yeah. And then it wipes off your whole board one time and then you never have an opportunity to catch up, but it doesn't matter.
00:40:35
Speaker
it it I have been the idiot for sure. I just find it fascinating how much we and our culture embraces the behavior. And now the sports betting, is it just truly embraces things that yeah one would say are excessive and potentially, hard well, and not even potentially, are effectively harmful. And the sports betting, is it's it so funny to watch how many commercials, how much celebration is happening around this stuff, how ESPN has incorporated bet lines into their programming. It's quite interesting.
00:41:13
Speaker
Yeah, I want it. Do you get any isn't there any though? Like, I mean, I'm like, this has gone on for years for hundreds of years, but sports betting has been going on forever. But it's usually a some shady Booker mob street level mob guy or something like everybody's had a bookie for a long time. And so don't don't you see a little bit like this is happening anyways, at least it's like front and center and they're not trying to hide it. Like, no.
00:41:43
Speaker
Like that doesn't make you happy about the same with weed. I'm like, it shouldn't be like it shouldn't be illegal so that somebody has to get incarcerated for it. I mean, you might not like the behavior, but it's like, it's it's happening. So you're just making a black market by not legalized. So now it's like legal, at least it's not a fucked up black market thing where you're going to get kneecapped or something, you know, like,
00:42:05
Speaker
So there's something about that. But what we've done is in that when we make moves like that, we're normalizing what I would call cartoonish behavior. So now now look at people think weed is fucking kale. I mean, really? They're like, think it's healthy and they're out.
00:42:23
Speaker
ingesting it on a daily basis. and And I think some of these folks would make very strong emphatic arguments as to the benefits of, of weed in, in almost all of its forms. so And like that to me is cartoonish, just like every knucklehead dad across the country making a bet on a game all every weekend. That's a little cartoonish. I mean, I would prefer to go back to the days where you had to go,
00:42:52
Speaker
deal with some dude who'd break your fucking legs. work So that a guy would fly the bets to Vegas for you every Saturday or something like that. Well, I just think some things just want to fly under the radar of society. what Should they be criminalized? No. Yeah. I don't know, man. i'm i'm I don't really know how to solve the problems of society. I just want to fucking talk some shit. Yeah.
00:43:15
Speaker
well I got the idea of your rant, l LA's rant was more about just our constant need for fucking vices more than like. Yeah. I mean, the idea of of the gambling, we were like, I know I'm not gonna win, but here you go is like, but I think sports games a little different. Everyone thinks everyone thinks they're go they're gonna win. They think they've got they've got an angle. Well, they're not. It's just so hard to stop, dude. It's just so hard to stop. I think the innocuous view of sports gambling would be like, and this is how it's framed from the major sports organizations, NBA, NFL. It's like, this is fun. This increases some of the fun to bet on your favorite team. So yeah, go for it. Go bet on your favorite team and hopefully you'll win and you root for them. and No, but i it's different, dude. it's like That's not what happens though.
00:44:10
Speaker
Well, I'm saying it's good. It's okay to bet on your favorite team, but your favorite team, you already have an emotional stake in. What it does is make, uh, you know, you're watching, uh, the Portland Trailblazers versus, uh, the Charlotte Hornets or Bobcat. What do they know?
00:44:26
Speaker
And then you're like, these two pieces of shit, I don't give a fuck about, but I bet on this game. So now, now it's become really important. You know? Yeah, that's what happens. Like it's so clearly has been driven, like ah so many things for a while though. Like, why do you think they have Mac, they have Midwestern athletic conference, like Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday on ESPN, Mac action. That's just betting. Like it's all betting, like.
00:44:51
Speaker
It's like that's what I'm saying. It's like cut the shit dude ESPN might be like well now these kids get a look that maybe on Saturdays They don't get that national attention, but now I know it's like nope You just it's just an opportunity for degenerates to gamble doesn't he's been having so they have a bedding site now do They have a casino essentially. yeah I think they do Wow that is insane But yeah how many people how many people think are abusing this or kind of falling into traps? Because I gave the example of a guy doing a $900 bet without his wife knowing. I am speculating, but I have to believe that a lot of behavior like that is happening. Yeah.
00:45:31
Speaker
I mean, what's funny now with all like fantasy and like office fantasy football that it might be the wife now betting dude, you know, like throwing some money around Jesus. I think a lot of people I don't know if it's under the radar, but it's so easy to bet discreetly on bait bet 365. What's so odd did the I was at my daughter's soccer her football like end of year thing like in December and I'm standing there like we had the parents had to do some we were doing like penalty shots and shit it was like a fun day but there's another dad and I see him out of the corner of my eye I'm like I said I recognize that website he's sitting there like at putting his bet 365 bets and my daughter's like look dad you should go talk to him he's doing what you do
00:46:13
Speaker
And I'm like, he does not do what I'm doing. He's just taking a risk. Yeah. But then I think he was even looking at our handicapping site. So I'm like, this guy must be, uh, another disciple of one of these guys that know the, the know the ins and outs of, uh, from the sports book industry. But I saw the guy betting and I was like, it was like a middle school dance. Like I was going to ask a girl but to dance and I was like, I should go talk to that guy. But how am I going to breach the conversation? Well, I noticed you, I noticed you're a degenerate like me. Welcome to the party.
00:46:43
Speaker
So I didn't I didn't talk to them, but it's pretty funny. But to your point, how many people you think are doing it? um I think a lot of people in the US, but it's just so easy. Like it's so easy online. It's through your phone. You don't tell anyone. You can easily pull a couple hundred bucks out of your joint bank account.
00:47:02
Speaker
And maybe your wife's like, what's going on or your husband, but you don't have to, it's not a big deal, you know? Well, right. And as a reference that as well, a little rant is like that in Vegas, like if I kept going back to the ATM, you'd be like, come on, bro, let's get the fuck out of here enough, dude. But like you're by yourself on this app, doing it all day during work, just maybe using it as a way to satisfy some other emotional problems.
00:47:28
Speaker
and just yeah And if you meet somebody else, dude, who's like in it, like in the office or something. I mean, those are high level conversations about why this team's going to win or what your play is. or You get two degenerate gamblers together and they're like, you know, match made in heaven. So excited to talk about. Well, so do you think there's more people like you, it's kind of sort of a hobby and it's managed decently. Maybe there is like some slight addiction, just like somebody might have to.
00:47:59
Speaker
social media or something basic. um I think that's professional gamblers. It's professionals, but like how many people though are just sort of a mess with this thing, do you think? I don't know. I mean, I would i had a great time for a few years with my brothers. we We had a small account, a few hundred bucks, but we'd bet on college football and we'd bust each other's balls. and then But one of my brothers couldn't couldn't really handle it.
00:48:21
Speaker
Like he he he he's one of these people that like he would have to stop gambling because it would get like, yeah like and would he just couldn't can't stop. So you'd be like, just calm down. I've got, these bets are fine. Let's just win this money and then live live to bet next week. But it'd be like, come on, come on. yeah And the the way that the way the games are laid out, so yeah they always put like the Hawaii, Hawaii on it like midnight. So you win all day and then you're like rolling it in into Hawaii. Don't know a fucking thing about their team or the other team, but there's, there's a line, right?
00:48:53
Speaker
I think there's probably a lot but to the extent of like how much it's damaging there their life and their family, I don't really know. yeah but you you know anybody who bets legal colorado like but yeah no i know people that do it but they I mean, they don't characterize themselves as doing things that aren't aren't healthy. obviously Nobody does that, right? No one's like, I'm a degenerate gambler. How are you? But they also like, it's one of those things too. I was actually thinking about this yesterday because I spent the weekend with my kids and and I was kind of proud of myself. Like we never spend any money on these surf trips, I think. But then I'm kind of going, oh, we stopped at a,
00:49:32
Speaker
a quickie mart here when I was doing some of my car. We stopped here there and then you're like, oh, that kind of adds up. So I think some of these people are like, I got 200 bucks on the Broncos this Sunday, threw some money at the Rams. you know i threw Oh, I thought I liked the the you know golden states on the back to back of a home and home with three days rest. Got to throw money at the point spread. They're justifying it. And they're going 100 here, 200 here, 100 here. All of a sudden, they're like, oh, it's 1,000 bucks a month. But they don't see themselves as a degenerate gambler.
00:50:02
Speaker
because they're not like betting the ranch on it, you know? No, and they may never be, but they may just go, oh, I gotta chill this shit out. But like, what is... I wouldn't call it fascinating. But I'll say they are probably. they They might be right. But what I think is most disturbing is now we're allowing this to proliferate so ah ubiquitously all across the world to where how many what percentage of us are truly addictive personalities and have really have trouble turning this kind of thing off. And now we're just like, we're finding those people, we're going to maximize the number of those people that we find.
00:50:37
Speaker
because it's so available and that's what's going to happen. And that to me, I just think, I don't know. I don't know if Lance has a lot of, I like to talk to myself. I'll talk about myself in third person, but I don't know if I have a ton of like deep ethical boundaries where, but that just like from a business perspective. You can make money this way, could you? Fuck no.
00:50:57
Speaker
No. I don't know. I could. I'm not saying I know who I am in terms of all the circumstances of business like necessarily but like I cannot make money this way.
Market Forces vs. Protection in Gambling
00:51:08
Speaker
I guess I'm going in the wrong direction but I'm in this. I don't see it any worse than selling Instagram or TikTok or prostitution or fucking processed cereal or foods that are fucking people up or I don't see it any worse. But this is not a great way to look at life. It's like what everything else is fucking terrible. You don't see it any worse. What's worse of like creating an epidemic of diabetes and and obesity? To the extent that you believe fruit loops are truly addictive, but like gambling has played out as like, really, it is super damaging.
00:51:45
Speaker
I think there's a lot of shitty things going on. Yeah, I get you. I get it. Dude, there's a lot of harmful industries. You shouldn't be like, well, everything else is bad. so i should no umm yeah No, I mean, there are a lot of bad things, but this thing with how big it's getting, you are going to find every addictive personality under every rock in this country.
00:52:07
Speaker
and we'll just have to deal with that damage. Sort of like what happened with the opioid epidemic. It's like that got prescribed so freely across all the doctor's offices in the country that we just saw mass quantities of people with these issues. And I highlight like the irony of the funding from the state lottery in Massachusetts, they fund their gambling anonymous group or their compulsive gamblers foundation with money from the lottery. They're like, but we just accept this. And maybe this is what you're getting at in your question earlier. Like should we just accept this as kind of the consequences of sort of human needs and human need to let go release, take some risks,
00:52:53
Speaker
um Put themselves in positions to lose control. Maybe lose control. Yeah. Let go. Completely let go. Maybe that's just the this is just the downside of that. And we should all accept it and just let Vegas be Vegas. Let DraftKings be DraftKings and fucking forget about it. I mean, I can go either way. I mean, I think, though, when I see guys who get cartoonish about it is what I want to make fun of the most. Just like, dude, you are not a fucking badass gambler. oh Just fucking lose your money and get the fuck out of here.
00:53:24
Speaker
That's a. Get your prime rib and get the fuck out of here. People like I figured it out, but the handicapper that we use is a guy like that, that he puts in the winning, like the percentages of like, it's, it's really straightforward. He does it for every sport. We'll say like, this team's a hundred percent to win. That guy is like a, like a ah statistician, like a, like he's, ah he's a math. He's like a high level math guy. This is what he decided to do at this time. Uh,
00:53:52
Speaker
And it's like, okay, that's commendable. He has kind of figured it out, but he probably doesn't, you know, he's probably a guy who's like, I would never gamble, but here's, you know, or something like that. But the books, the sports books actually use his information. And that's the guy that we're using for on this volume. But it's like, that's, there are people that put a lot of time into it. And, and but they're very, they're so disciplined and cat like the exact opposite of gambling.
00:54:17
Speaker
What's crazy, some of the people that win the sports books will keep their accounts open because they use that information, like to move lines. So they have their lines and then somebody bets who's like a known, a guy who's like has a system and he has a track record of a winner, they'll move the line like against him or or they'll be like, oh, this guy knows what's going on. Which is so, I find that all really interesting. Yeah. Business side of it, the math side of it, I think it's pretty amazing, but it's it's just, the yeah, I don't know. like It's all it's like war, though, too. Like, if you're like, all right, we all think war is inherently bad. But are we ever going to is there never going to be a time in history where there's not a conflict? So you just go, oh, we just got to accept it. Build up the military, you know, like, yeah. Well, these are those are some some real big questions. I don't it know the answer. Yeah, but it's all kind of the same thing, right? Like what humanity is about. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:11
Speaker
It's like they can't stop. But gambling, it's like impossible for people to stop. And you'll see people like slot machines, like your old grandma has never done anything bad in her life. Literally has to be like dragged out of there, you know, or or shit like that. Come on, Mom. Come on, Mom. Let's go. I don't know. But but it is. But the thing about like games on, yeah, it's just hypocritical though, that it that what it's always been a thing ever since there's- So just accept it as you're, just accept it as like- Not sure. As like, yeah. Why, ah you know, the question is like, why were we able to stop? Like, I don't know if you consider yourself to have addictive personality, but I know when we were young, there were bachelor parties, we were like, Vegas was fun. And I know that I love betting on sports, but I'm able to stop.
00:56:02
Speaker
And, uh, why, like, why can I stop and why can some people like not, I might even have, I mean, I think I probably have an addictive personality in some ways. Yeah. Uh, excessive. I mean, the environment, you you have an obsessive personality, right? If you get into something. I mean, I have an anxious personality, but I'm not really obsessive. I i don't have problems.
00:56:25
Speaker
with addiction at all. Like I'll just like if it starts to feel like I cross the line, it's like stop cold turkey. But what whatever, it doesn't matter. I'm not special. People have different neuro vulnerabilities. I think it's fascinating though, that we need a place to just kind of feel like we can go be bad. And we need so many of these things where we feel like we can just kind of be bad.
00:56:54
Speaker
because we we need to, as humans, we need that in our lives. Call it letting go, call it like breaking the rules. Breaking the rules is probably the best way to phrase it. Like that you we're just so tired of the rules of of the world and this is where we can break them. And I think that's funny. I think that's- We need like our P Diddy parties and we don't have access to what he had access to. No, no, we don't need no P Diddy party, but yeah, some people probably do actually.
00:57:24
Speaker
Well, that's that's a whole bigger conversation, but there's tons of hypocrisy in those like celebrity scandals. were like A lot of people probably wish they were at that shit.
Addiction, Responsibility, and Exploitation
00:57:33
Speaker
Yeah, so I guess what I offer in that rant is more of like, man, pay attention to your vulnerabilities. Because if this is a problem for you, man, you just turn, you got to turn away from it. It's so hard. Have you been around anybody who has that addiction where like in a one more, just let me do it. Just let me do it. Come on, just let me do it. It's terrible. Yeah. It's like so annoying. It's annoying, but like I've seen it too. It's just like guys that are sort of sex crazed.
00:58:02
Speaker
And like it's like, oh yeah, let's fucking go there. I want to fucking yeah, dude fucking look at that bitch. Look at that bitch It's just like settled down. Oh, they literally can't do or think about anything else. Well, it's like strip like a strip. club restaurant yeah Yeah. Oh, yeah look at that Yeah, it's like dude ah Yeah, strip club is brutal. But like, so so at some point, I guess, from a societal perspective, how disgusting do we become? Or how much do we support and tolerate our desire to have this debauchery?
00:58:33
Speaker
in life. And I think we're in the era of excess and Donald Trump to me represents excess and everything he does, even his meme coins and whatever else he's doing. It's like, it so now's the time. Like if you wanna double down on being a piece of shit, I say go for it now.
00:58:51
Speaker
Seriously, go for it. If you wanna get on Robinhood and trade the shittiest stocks that you think you're gonna go up 60% in a day or 100%, fucking do it, man. If you lose your money, just, you're fine. Everybody's doing it. Fucking go to Vegas. I mean, seriously, get three hookers. Just just fucking wear rubber, but go go wild. Go wild, bro. This message we're doing on the podcast, but this is like,
00:59:17
Speaker
a message to your children, really, right? Seriously, access is in. I mean, it's totally in. Fucking go nuts. For four years, you got four years that emptied out. Yeah, go nuts. Nobody, nobody's worried about. I mean, if you want to, like, seriously, become a UFC fighter. Just, just fucking go for it. Would you? All right. So we're both kind of like, yeah, I don't know how many desire to do that. But do you think to your point i here, i just go for it. Do you think any of that's like age or it's like,
00:59:45
Speaker
because we've done it, we don't need to do it anymore. It's definitely getting it out though. There's definitely an age component and but there's also a responsibility component. When we went back to the ATM to get another 400 in our 20s, like the consequences weren't, oh shit, I can't get the diapers. right It was more of like, oh shit, I got more credit card debt.
01:00:06
Speaker
I guess I'll have to like not go to Brothers Barbecue. Still go anyways. Yeah, we'll still go. So <unk> that's probably part of it, but also like some people just never get out of that cycle. And that's the age. Oh man. If you walk around some of the like tourist towns down here that are known as like, as, as there's a lot of sex, sex, tourism, sex, there's so many fucking just terrible looking middle-aged white men just walking around gringo. So age didn't, didn't do it for them.
01:00:36
Speaker
I think there's probably desperate loyalty or loneliness or something like that. Maybe I don't know. But maybe we just accept this is the underbelly of society and just move on. But it's front and center. I don't know what underbelly do. You're right. Whatever. I don't know what we're doing as a species anymore. Just fucking drill right on top of Old Faithful. Just like fucking dig out the geyser and just fucking put an oil well there and let's fucking go. I wonder what LA the Rantor is getting it like what's the what are you getting at? I mean, it seems like you're wrestling a little bit but it's like, what's the solution? So you don't do all this crap like what's this because not everyone just kind of want to walk around at cool parks. And why do you tap like how do you tap your desire to to completely let go? You know, it's a good question. um Or just the exit like if all this stuff is grounded in excess, right? You think
01:01:35
Speaker
I think my message is like nobody's going to protect you, individual consumer, individual so citizen of America. You can see it. Just look around so it's a reminder of look around. I think ah nobody's going to protect you.
01:01:51
Speaker
and Ask yourself is this is like that that what I want to participate in and and at what level and be Caught thoughtful about that. That's all I'm that's essentially what I'm saying while making like demeaning condescending fucking jokes about absurd people So you start with the question of like do I need this? But but that's not even possible for so many people.
01:02:17
Speaker
And those people should just fucking die. I mean, I don't care. I don't know. I know, seriously. I I don't know what you do about your most vulnerable in the population because like. They should read Doyle Bronson, How to Win and Texas Holden books. There you go. They should fucking really figure out how to win. But paternalism, it's like an instinct I have of like, oh, you shouldn't do that.
01:02:40
Speaker
I know it's a bullshit thing to put on other people. It's like, I mean, I wouldn't be able to stomach it for someone else, but it's also like what other option do you have in terms of calling out what is so excessive? Like, I mean, you shouldn't do this, motherfucker. Don't tell me what to fucking do. I will gamble my life savings away. I will fucking do it. Yeah, sure do.
01:03:04
Speaker
Yeah, ah so who knows where we go, man? But you do you feel though, if you look at America, like that there's so many avenues of this excess. is this Maybe this is getting older and why I'm a piece of shit, because i I can't acknowledge I'm getting more conservative in terms of how people should live their lives, but whatever. But you i just you have to feel like this shit is getting out of control. So many different avenues of abuse and harmful industry.
01:03:32
Speaker
Yeah, but my I come back to I think I've said a few times is like, I know I like gambling. I know I liked I've never a stripped of guy but like, I know I've evolved myself. Like I think I was talking about how when I was 11 I would have been pretty excited to own a McDonald's. Like I know that it's possible because myself I had to go on the I had to do what I did. I had to live my life. So I don't, I don't get as worried about it because I just know that like, ah, it's painful, but we all have to make our own mistakes. Yeah. And there are plenty of gambling, gambling addicts that have got clean, so to speak, drug addicts, like, uh, serial money grab people that have found a way to get out of that in their life. So like people can change.
01:04:17
Speaker
They could change, but don't you think more people, more of us, they we're almost seeking a storyline of redemption? Like there's just more- My journey. We're journeys, but it's so abused. Shut the fuck up. There's more willingness to like seek rock bottom with some of this stuff or to get lost in it, or maybe there just aren't as many guardrails with uh the diminishing of church and and family cohesion but uh then you see so many people with a documentary or uh you know i fucking gambled away my daughter's yeah my daughter's 529 plan and fucking then i uh got her back into harvard and there's this documentary about it it's just like
01:05:02
Speaker
I don't know if people are aspiring to that or if there's just so many stories like that that we we need to tell them. but is It's upset us ah acceptable maybe. Yeah. It's like now, it's like, oh, he came back from his his gambling problem. That's cool. um I just assume dude never started gambling. So anyway, goodbye. I'm gonna, yeah, hit me privately if you want to get on this volleyball action people.
01:05:30
Speaker
Don't listen to Lance. We'll get it going. I don't think if, it might for my Missouri listeners, I don't think, uh, sports, but that, that's like, okay, sports gambling is not legal right now in Missouri. I think it might've passed, but it's going to take a few years to implement.
01:05:46
Speaker
That seems ridiculous to me. I think would you be like, well, good, good for Missourians that don't have legal gambling. That hellhole of a state. It's a beautiful state. I'm kidding. That fucking Ozark crack pipe smoking trailer trash. There's a lot of mess math There's a lot of math, but yeah. Math producing hellhole doesn't have gambling. It's just they're keeping it on the riverboats, huh?
01:06:11
Speaker
Dude, that's kind of what I was saying about, at least it's front and center. It's like, of all the fucked up stuff going on, why is this thing not legal in some places? It doesn't make any sense. Well, why don't we legalize flashing? It's just like, make it front and center. And dudes have trench coats walking around, just fucking showing their junk to everyone. Why don't we legalize that, bro? That's exciting. Well, you can make the art. You never know what it's gonna happen. Maybe that's not quite as mainstream for some people.
01:06:41
Speaker
But how do you get to, you know, promoting something to become mainstream if you don't let it happen? So let's just let these try. I just think like gambling has been mainstream and a desire for more people than flashing for a long time. Yeah. Like, okay. All right. Yeah. It's a stupid argument, but like, I don't think gambling is worse for people than alcohol. Alcohol has been legal for a long time. Okay. So.
01:07:05
Speaker
If we're gonna legalize bad shit, then like why? Well, you know, I know there's a line. Flashing is probably my line. But why? I just don't see it as worse. It's a self-control thing. Alcohol can damage your life. I'm like really bad. And some people can't control themselves. Gambling's the same way. Yeah, but you're more of a let it happen. It's gonna happen. People will make mistakes. And I'm more of please try not to be a dipshit and be susceptible to all of this manipulation.
01:07:35
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I also like I've seen it. I've seen somebody who can't control themselves with it and they had to stop. But I also think that they probably would have went and got it. Like they would have found a way to do it. Maybe, um maybe not. That's, that's the question for like an addict who's recovered. If you didn't have ah this much access, would it have been a problem? Or is the access what really let you become the the junkie?
01:07:57
Speaker
That's kind of what I wonder, because I think it in my and the other model, the old model, some of these junkies literally had to move to Nevada to to carry out their junky lifestyle. So you got a lot of degenerates in Vegas. And I wonder, I guess that's my, it's not a closing argument, but a closing question.
01:08:12
Speaker
Is the front and center aspect of it and the accessibility of it like how you can just bet the screen on your phone? Is that actually enhancing the problem? This these addictions that some so the answer is probably yes, right? So maybe I just made an argument against myself. I agree with you So let me ask you this question, dude Do you think society has any responsibility to essentially protect people from themselves?
01:08:41
Speaker
You think that should be a part of society's overall mission. We know we have people, we know people have vulnerabilities to certain types of things. Should we help protect them or just clean up the help, but clean up the mess after or neither? Just like you're on your own pussy. You can't handle gambling. Sorry. Right. It's in your face. When you say society, do you mean government or just as a whole, like,
01:09:10
Speaker
I kind of like now, i might to answer the question, I feel like my responsibility is to my children, like in a way. It's like, all right, that's my responsibility. Teach them what I think is right from wrong. Allow them to make mistakes ah that they'll teach themselves and then intervene if there's a huge problem developing.
01:09:33
Speaker
right so have like ah sorry I don't know if I have like a responsibility of a degenerate in Vegas who who like can't stop like or or a guy who can't stop looking at his phone because he he cannot stop betting. I don't know. That's his own thing. He's got to figure out. I mean i think the bigger a question you're asking me is like, okay, well, that guy is helpless unless somebody literally says this is illegal. and you can't have the service. as like So is it our responsibility to outlaw thing like behavior that could be ah detrimental, right? Yeah, I think the ah distinction I might make is, do you, through laws, protect people from from themselves? And you could really apply this to anything.
01:10:24
Speaker
prostitution drugs, guns, gambling, things at speed limits yeah that are known to be harmful. Or do you let philanthropy or activism on the backend try to solve some of these issues? So private organizations to help with people who struggle with gambling or other things like that.
01:10:45
Speaker
and I don't know the answer. I don't know the answer, but it does seem pretty sinister and dystopian for society to let people run wild with things that we know are are fucking really bad for folks. Like, I mean, there's like, so you can you gotta go extreme because on the surface, you just go, well, you don't like freedom Lance, not into freedom, huh? self And self will or so like, ah but okay, freedom guy.
01:11:17
Speaker
Okay, putting age limits on on sexual or, you know, like, okay. It's like, no, well, who's the victim and ah pedophilia or something like that, you know, like, yeah, statutory laws, like, those price should be in place. But again, like, it's funny, ah sadly enough, like, does it help? Like, is a pedophile going, ah, man, I would love to hook up with a 12 year old boy, but I can't because it's illegal. Damn it. That's kind of like where I go. I don't even know if it helps.
01:11:48
Speaker
ah I think that that the fact that there's of a victim, a defined victim in the law, I know, I'm sure that helps, helps diminish. There's gotta be consequences, but I i't like yeah i don't still't know if you can control a degenerate, like somebody's addictive personality, like gambling, or like someone that's stuck in the cycle of sexual abuse.
01:12:13
Speaker
Like is the law fix it? Like, I mean, usually they find a pedophile, something probably happened to them or, you know, like that cycle is like, or, or, um, yeah, I don't, I mean, you have to have laws in place, I think, but like, I don't know how much to what extent it helps. Have you ever done it? Have you ever not done something strictly because it's illegal, but you had a desire to do it?
01:12:37
Speaker
I mean, the closest to that for me might be just like speeding when I, the highway is clearly open. It's like, come on, I'm not fucking with 55 here. Yeah. But you have a desire to go one eight, one 30 about 95, but yeah, I didn't do it. Uh, yeah. But I've gotten speeding tickets where I've been pushing a hundred and, and like when I was really young and stupid, but you recognize the benefit of speed, controlling that a little bit.
01:13:05
Speaker
ah So I think though there's an obligation and that's all I'll say about it, to protect the innocent. It has come from a governmental legislation. It has to come with some structure, yeah. I mean, do you, I don't know how you get it. But like in your second example, where you're like, did you leave it to like the good will of felon,
01:13:30
Speaker
but I can't say that word, but phil philanthropic philanthropic philanthropic. Yeah. Do you leave it out to like people that do it? I don't know. I think maybe you leave up the cleanup to folks like that. The awareness campaign to folks like that of like, this is harmful, but government has to have some consequential laws to behavior that victimizes other people. And that's where the line gets real blurry. So when draft kings or fan dual run wild, there is a victimization happening for for more vulnerable people. So that's just a confusing thing to try to figure out what the line is in society. But it's good important we acknowledge that, Matt, to show that we are intellectuals.
01:14:13
Speaker
There's a weird thing there that goes like, all right, we think people are so stupid and so would have such a lack of self control.
Big Brother and Personal Choices in Gambling
01:14:21
Speaker
We have to take away these things like gambling sites because they can't do it themselves. It's kind of like this big brother or like big, you know, some, some puppeteers like making decisions for people. It's kind of sad. It is sad. But like, i would like yeah, I don't know. You could put that on other damaging things. like I go back to the flasher.
01:14:42
Speaker
Just let that fucker run wild. And if people in society take a bat to his head, eh, who cares? Right. Like, you could go the other way, I mean, with everything. It's like, okay, if one of my kids was assaulted in some way, I didn't like, that gives me freedom to kill someone.
01:15:03
Speaker
Right. Okay. I'm going to police it that way.
Societal Reflections on Protected Behaviors
01:15:06
Speaker
You get a lawless society and who knows what happens. But it's interesting the choices we make in terms of what we protect and support. That might deter somebody better though.
01:15:17
Speaker
Yeah. Right. It might. Who knows? We should try it.
Sports Betting Tips and Cryptocurrency Humor
01:15:20
Speaker
So important to acknowledge that piece of it, dude. I hope you have a good day, man. Shout out to Conegaliana Women's Volleyball. Big match today. If you guys can get them at minus 2000, I recommend they, uh, you run that up with Skandichi Women's Volleyball. Parlay it. See if you can get that at minus 600. All right. Thank you, Matt.
01:15:51
Speaker
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