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Barking up the Art Tree with Dr. Elisabeth Green
119 Plays3 years ago
This week's Artpop BARK comes with a very esteemed guest, Dr. Elisabeth Green! Dr. Green is a veterinarian working in emergency medicine, and happens to be Bianca’s bestie. Elisa sits down with Bianca to discuss all things animal! We look at the history of animal portraiture, and how the pop-visual culture of animals impacts those working in a scientific field. We also recap the Friends reunion, and play a little game of “guess the painting in my Animal Crossing museum.”
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Transcript
Introduction and Guests
00:00:00
Speaker
Hello, hello and welcome to our pop talk. I'm Gianna and I'm Bianca. Today we are joined by best friends of APT Blossom the Spaniel and the owner of said Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, Dr. Elizabeth Greene.
00:00:17
Speaker
Bianca and Alyssa sit down for a conversation about art and animals, and I will be discussing my experience interacting with art in the historic Greenwood district in Tulsa this past week. Bianca, are you ready? Let's art pop talk. Hello, hello. Gianna, how are you? I'm good. I feel as though we've both had a pretty busy week, have we not?
00:00:45
Speaker
It has been a busy week, Gianna. I feel very frantic right now. I was just trying to sell something on Facebook Marketplace, and it is not going well. And I feel completely overwhelmed by the online presence of people's just rationale and judgment over an item. That's nothing. Oh my god, the internet is so crazy, Gianna. We are not cut out for this. Well, great.
00:01:14
Speaker
I'm glad we're only a year in and have figured that out
Tulsa Art Walk and Local Artists
00:01:18
Speaker
now. We love it. Well, how are you? You had a busy week as well. Yes, I am good. I will have some pretty exciting news to share, I think, by next week, once it's official. So just a little nugget to keep it going. A little teaser to keep it going for next week.
00:01:38
Speaker
This past week I was up in Tulsa. I did the first Friday Art Walk with Mrs. Audrey Kaminski and I really wanted to share some of the exhibitions that are going on in that area as well. They were fantastic. But besides that I am going to talk about going to Greenwood this past week and it was for the centennial event of the Tulsa Race Massacre and it also included
00:02:04
Speaker
a installation from the visiting artist Tatiana Fazlalizadeh.
Art, Accessibility, and Emergency Veterinary Work
00:02:09
Speaker
Sweet. Well, today, like we said, we have Dr. Elizabeth Green coming on the podcast. Alyssa was so much fun to sit down and chat with. We talk about all things animal art, animal portraiture. We talk about how her being a veterinarian of emergency medicine, how that
00:02:33
Speaker
field that she works in is really impacted by visual arts and I think it's something that we really want to stress on the podcast that art is for everyone and I know we've talked about STEAM and STEM before and it's really important that I think we are still connecting with people and interviewing people who may not necessarily be
00:02:53
Speaker
have directly studied the arts or work in an arts field. So this was a really fun conversation. We do recap the Friends Reunion and then at the very end Alyssa and I play a little game with Animal Crossing where
00:03:08
Speaker
She reads the descriptions of her paintings that she's collected on her island for her museum and I try to guess what the painting is. I think I did okay. I did okay. I need to brush up on some of my art history. Well, I'm sure you did better than my cringy nail polish name game. I don't know about that.
Greenwood Centennial Events
00:03:32
Speaker
So do you want to talk about your time at Greenwood and then we'll move into the interview?
00:03:39
Speaker
Yes. So first, a couple just fun things to share. If you are in the Tulsa area, definitely go see some of these exhibitions. Right now, Crystal Z. Campbell has a solo exhibition of Aha that you all should definitely go see. She has a ton of work in there. She has a variety of small images in there as well. And I believe all those works are for sale.
00:04:03
Speaker
The Living Arts Gallery, the TAC Gallery, 108 Contemporary all have exhibitions up right now featuring local black artists. The 108 exhibition is called My Soul Looks Back and Wonder How I Got Over and it features works from Skip Hill and Letitia Huckabee.
00:04:23
Speaker
both amazing, amazing artists. I would highly recommend visiting 108 Contemporary. Living Arts has the Tulsa Race Massacre Centennial Project on display through June 19th. Such strong work in there. I was really happy to see
00:04:41
Speaker
Cheyenne Dickey's work, they showed in the Momentum 2021 exhibition, who creates very mixed media. And aside from that exhibition as well, they had a really great integration of both interactive elements, they had installation heavy works, but also formal art and objects on display as well. So lots of really exciting things happening down there if you do have the chance.
00:05:05
Speaker
Yeah, so last Tuesday, Theban and I were down in Greenwood. And Tuesday was also the day that Joe Biden did come into town a little bit earlier. So there was quite a few people there trying to spot him, which I also heard that nobody was able to see him because it kind of took him like a back way to avoid the public. So a little bit of a
00:05:27
Speaker
let down for those folks. I'm so used to just stalking him in Delaware that I didn't really feel the need to stalk him that day. One of the big things that I wanted to talk about today was this Centennial Commission project that is happening. You guys have probably heard about Greenwood Rising Museum.
00:05:50
Speaker
is currently being built and is part of the Centennial Commission project as we approach on this historic marker. On the website, the museum describes itself as what will be the Commission's crown jewel, quote, Greenwood Rising, a world-class history center being built on the southeast corner of Greenwood and Archer with the support from local national partners. Its overarching theme, quote, the human spirit
00:06:16
Speaker
speaks to the dignity of the people who turned trials, tribulations, and tragedy into triumph. Its educational programming will include age-appropriate interactive learning opportunities and community engagement events." So this museum is not fully open yet. It had been open or there was an opening event for the descendants of Greenwood and hopefully some of the survivors, but it is not fully open to the public yet.
00:06:43
Speaker
While I was down in Greenwood on last Tuesday, I actually was able, coincidentally, I ran into a employee of Greenwood Rising who I was looking at one of Tatiana's wheat paste posters on the One Oak Stadium.
00:07:00
Speaker
And there was this QR code on the ground. And so he stopped me and Thebin. And he was like, hey, download this app, which I shared on our Instagram story, Greenwood Rising. There is really great resources on there. But there are these little plaques on the ground that you can see in this QR code. And not only is it going to give you great information that you can access all the time about the race massacre, but almost kind of like you're in Google Maps and you can kind of move your phone and look at desired locations.
Commercialization Concerns in Greenwood
00:07:28
Speaker
It's very interactive in the sense that if you lift your phone up in front of these historic markers, it'll show you an image very interactively of what once stood there and give you information about it as well. And really great that I was able to run into him to get that information.
00:07:44
Speaker
I didn't feel like the markers were super, super clear. They didn't have a very formidable presence because again, they are on the ground. Also, once I was able to enter that app, I was able to get better information about all the events and things happening in the area. So I will get to Tatiana's work here in a little bit at the end. But while I was down at Tulsa with Audrey, she also shared with me a
00:08:11
Speaker
podcast and I believe it's a NPR podcast and it's the platform code switch. It's a 30-minute episode that is really fantastic and it talks about this centennial event happening and kind of all this spotlight attention that Greenwind is getting and I really wanted to share some of that with you in conjunction with just my experience there.
00:08:33
Speaker
In this podcast, it does talk about with all this new money coming into the area, Tulsa in general, but also, again, this emphasis and spotlight that Greenwood has gained. People are worried, I should say, residents are worried that they're going to be pushed out and these community members and business owners aren't going to be able to sustain a presence and secure its long standing space and residence due to the cost of living going up.
00:09:01
Speaker
and also the rent in these businesses going up, urban renewal, or as we like to say, urban removal happening. And this has happened. And in the podcast, they do highlight a business owner who I believe owns a beauty shop or a blowout shop.
00:09:18
Speaker
that this is something that is currently happening to her. So also community members and people in Greenwood are worried about this opportunity to commercialize and capitalize on this history. And I think it's also fair to say that Greenwood rising campaign is also a contributing factor in that. Another big concern is through all this attention. And it's something that we've talked about with other events or things that we consider
00:09:48
Speaker
a trend that should not be a trend. Is the money and the support going to continue after the centennial? And so that's a really big fear and concern that a lot of folks are having right now.
00:10:01
Speaker
Another really, really interesting thing about Greenwood Rising that me and Audrey were discussing because of this podcast, they do interview a woman who is referred to as Mother Randall.
Mother Randall's Legal Actions
00:10:13
Speaker
She's in her hundreds and she is a survivor of the massacre, original residence, and she reached out to the Tulsa Centennial Race Massacre Commission, who is responsible for Greenwood Rising Museum.
00:10:28
Speaker
and sent them a cease and desist letter because they kept referencing her name very publicly as to honor her in this project, but also dedicate their collection to her, but without ever consulting her about the matter at all.
00:10:46
Speaker
or even asking her thoughts about this commission and this action around the centennial. And she doesn't support it. So with the spirit of kind of APT and transparency and conversation within the art world and cultural destinations, that was quite shocking to hear about. So I am going to link this podcast for you.
Tatiana Fazlalizadeh's Installation
00:11:11
Speaker
Again, it is very short, but I think it is definitely worth
00:11:16
Speaker
listening to and a good entry point into further research. But should we get into the Tatiana Fazla Lisa Day of it all? Oh, absolutely. Thank you, Gianna, so much for going. And I'm really glad that you got to go and at least share what you could on our social media for everybody.
00:11:35
Speaker
But yes, I also am fascinated and jealous by the Tatiana element of it all. So if you have not been to Greenwood, it's a fairly small strip of businesses that are still there and then down at the far end.
00:11:52
Speaker
is the historic Vernon Church. And I've never been inside the chapel before. Outside of the chapel, there is another installation that was outside that was interactive. But it had a lot of factual information about racial injustice and also some of the other injustices that took place in 1921. And it's kind of you enter this constructed space with kind of free hanging rods.
00:12:19
Speaker
And there's also this QR element that you can listen to certain audios, music and also people speak as you walk through the space. But when you enter the entry point, it says how long can you hold your breath? And then you would like walk through the space with this idea of how long can you hold your breath. So
00:12:37
Speaker
Theban and I did that before we entered the chapel, but once you get in there, there are two screens set up that's pretty much right before you enter the aisles to get to the pews of
00:12:51
Speaker
And that's the video work that Tachiana had set up. So there's a lot of musical components about it, but it's black community members, kind of a montage of experiences through what I felt like predominantly vocal performances, really, really beautiful vocal performances. The kind of point where the video starts and also ends is imagery of fire.
00:13:16
Speaker
And then as you walk through the pews, she does have like church fans with faces on them. She also has open text of what I believe to be biblical verses or the Bible. Some of the pages have
00:13:32
Speaker
burn marks on them and then she also interrupts the text with historic images of Black Wall Street as well. So Theban and I are probably in there for a solid 30 to 45 minutes and then when we are done walking through the pews I turn around and I'm like holy moly that's Tatiana and
00:13:58
Speaker
I was definitely not expecting her to to be there and I don't know why I knew that she was on the agenda for some of the events but part of the reason why I also wanted to go on the first day was allegedly open because some of the itinerary seemed like it was exclusive for black community members and I did want to make sure that I was being there at the
00:14:21
Speaker
appropriate times.
Friends Reunion Reactions
00:14:23
Speaker
So I'm like, I have to go like excuse myself and I kind of like turn around and walk this way and even is like, what are you doing? Like, what's happening? I don't understand why you're freaking out. So yeah, she was there and I had a little, little mini heart attack because of, you know, the art crush of it all. I'm, I'm very jealous you got to see one of our art crushes. But also, I mean, it's just it's, I'm
00:14:51
Speaker
just so glad she was there to connect with viewers anyway. And that's really lovely. And I know she was posting about it a lot over the course of the weekend. So yeah. Yes. Yeah, I definitely I didn't talk to her. It didn't. It didn't not feel like an appropriate time for me specifically to
00:15:15
Speaker
approach her and it was just very surreal to like I'm watching her watch her own like video installation and I was like, holy shit. Yeah, I was very, very, very fortunate to be able to go and see it. And the last thing I'll share about it is kind of in the middle of the aisle, right at close to maybe where an altar would be. She has these constructed boxes set up that are
00:15:43
Speaker
kind of fixated together almost like box triangles with also shattered glass. And she has some text and some imagery on the side. And the text reads, there is a constant presence of white violence. There is a constant persistence of black joy. I think having that text, particularly in a sacred place like a chapel,
00:16:05
Speaker
was really compelling. So yeah, that was just a little bit of my experience there. Well, thanks so much for sharing. Yeah, yeah, I am definitely excited to listen to your analysis chat. I actually have not listened to it yet. So yeah, this will be
00:16:24
Speaker
New for me too. A little APT surprise. Yeah, no, it was a super fun time. Thank you, Dr. Green, for coming on the podcast. Like we say in the interview, we've name dropped Elizabeth quite a bit over the course of APT episodes. So if you don't know who she is, Dr. Green is my very best friend. She's a dog mom. She is a doctor.
00:16:50
Speaker
She's a veterinarian of emergency medicine in New York City. She is extremely impressive. She is an amazing doctor, scientist, and scholar. And I think you'll find our chat really interesting. And again, just to reiterate, I really love the connection that we have to people who haven't studied art. And I think that's really important in showing that this podcast is for everyone. And we want people to feel welcome in artistic spaces. And it doesn't matter.
00:17:20
Speaker
background, but we can always find something to connect us together and have productive conversations. So it was a really great time. Anything else to add before we get into it? You know, I think that about covered it. Everyone enjoy Bianca and Alyssa's conversation and I will see you all next week. All right. Enjoy everyone.
00:18:12
Speaker
Hello everyone and welcome back. I'm here with really what may be my favorite guest on APT. Dr. Elizabeth Green is joining us here today and I name drop you all the time on the podcast. Oh, I know. You know, I'm sure you pick it up. Yes, I do. I'm always just like, you know, I'm my doctor friend, like Dr. Green. I love saying Dr. Green. I just think it really elevates my status in the world.
00:18:38
Speaker
Thanks for being here today. I really appreciate it. Oh, well, thank you for the warm welcome. Oh, you're welcome. You're welcome. Yeah. So I'm super excited to be here. Good. Yeah. I've been waiting to come on the podcast forever and I love it when you name drop me. It just makes me like, who else gets to listen to a podcast? And then they're just like, Oh yeah, my best friend, Alyssa Green. Yeah. That's good feeling. Oh good. Good. We also have Blossom joining us today. A very important subject for today's topic.
00:19:06
Speaker
So Blossom, thank you for being here as well. She may make an appearance every now and then, and if you hear her panting... Yeah, making mouth noises in the microphone. It's just this regal cavalier spaniel joining us today. So thank you, Blossom, you're also a celebrity in my life, and I just appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:26
Speaker
All right, well, can you introduce yourself to the listeners? If you haven't heard me name drop, Dr. Green, now you have a face and a voice. Can you tell everyone what you do and why you're on the podcast today? Yes, so as Bianca said, my name is Bianca's best friend, Alyssa Green, and we have been friends for what, now 11, 12? I think the fall will be our 12 year friend anniversary. Yes, okay, so 12 whole years.
00:19:54
Speaker
ever since a very fateful day in freshman year biology. Would you like to tell that story? I think it's on you. I think you should tell this story. Because really, you are the one that instigated the first shows. Yeah, it's all thanks to me. Yeah, it's very odd. Well, we were in freshman year biology, sitting there. Didn't have a lot of friends. I was new to school, Bianca. I mean, it was high schools.
00:20:19
Speaker
And we got partnered up against our will, I believe, for biology lab. Yeah, we've been kind of like sitting next to each other in class for a while. And then I feel like it just kind of everyone else already had their established groups and kind of like, yes, we we like did become lab partners, but it was kind of like, maybe a little awkward at first. Yeah, sure. But it was great. And so our project was to dissect a crawfish. Yes. And
00:20:47
Speaker
I don't really know what came over me because I'm actually a shy person, but I think I just had a chemical smell coming from Bianca that I knew I needed to be her friend. The perfume. Go back and listen to our perfume episode. I'll get you a good friend. That's exactly what happened. I smelled you and I wanted to be your best friend. We were dissecting this crawfish and I was like, wow, you know what would be totally cool and normal to do?
00:21:13
Speaker
pop the eyeball on my lab partner that I just met. And that is indeed what I did. And you know what? Ever since then, she hasn't been able to leave me alone. So it's true. It worked. I just took a little tool. I remember that, Willy. It was like a little, how would you describe it? It was like a needle. It was like a needle. And she just picked up the tool and stabbed the eyeball. And then the eye of the crawfish squirted on me. Like a popping boba, if you will.
00:21:43
Speaker
Oh, boba tea. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think it was pretty quickly after that, we became best friends. It was fun to be. Yes. And we used to like, wow, you lived nearby after school. And we kind of like would see each other after school and talk after school. And then we had a lot of our classes together after that.
00:22:09
Speaker
And then we ended up going to college together. We lived together for... What was it, like three years? Four years. Was it four? No, we lived with me for a year. But then grad school for a year. Oh, that's amazing. I know. I know. And speaking of lucky, also, you know, like out of Bianca, I had the privilege of meeting Gianna, which is just, you know, the other most fantastic thing that's happened to me.
00:22:34
Speaker
Yeah, I'm very lucky to have been friends with you guys for so long. I know, I'm gonna cry, it's so nice. And you know, also lucky, one day Bianca and I just decided to go to New York City for a vacation.
Friends' Comfort and Historical Impact
00:22:49
Speaker
And that was probably the most magical four days of my entire life. And I was just thinking how wonderful it was and I was like, yeah, this is really cool.
00:23:01
Speaker
I decided I would move there. She just decided this. Yeah. No, it really was on a whim. She was just like, I'm going to get a job in New York. And then she did. And now she's a badass veterinarian saving lives in the city. She was just like, yeah, I'm going to move here. And then they hired her. I literally googled veterinarian emergency in New York City. And that's the company I work for now.
00:23:25
Speaker
Um, yeah. So, yeah, I went to vet school in, uh, Oklahoma. And then after that moved right to New York. Yep. And now I live in Manhattan with my other true love blossom. And we're just living our best city girl lives. I love it. I love it. Well, speaking of New York city, I think we should transition in lieu of art news this week. It's very fitting.
00:23:53
Speaker
But Alyssa and I are hanging out this weekend and recording because we just watched the Friends Reunion. So in lieu of art news, we're going to do a Friends Reunion recap and then we'll get into the bulk of the episode. I'm going to talk with Alyssa about how the arts and pop culture relate to her job as a veterinarian and how
00:24:13
Speaker
the field of science, you can still relate to art and why art is still important. Oh, she looks so glamorous. She's never had a ring light. I know. And then after that, we are going to play a game where Alyssa, Alyssa's a pretty good Animal Crossing consumer. Yeah, video game in general. Yeah, she's, she's a gamer girl, hashtag gamer girl. Yeah.
00:24:38
Speaker
And so Alyssa is going to read the description of paintings that she's collected in Animal Crossing, and then I'm going to try to guess which painting it is. So we're going to play that game towards the end of the episode. But for now, art news, friends reunion.
00:24:57
Speaker
I just feel as though, if you're listening to this and you haven't listened to any Friends Reunion recaps yet, because I know all of my podcasts already did it last week, but I just want you to know that Alyssa and I are literally the perfect people to talk about the Friends recap, and I don't want to hear anything about, oh, Friends is stupid, Friends is dumb, like, choogie, Friends, girls, whatever. We give no shits shamelessly, unapologetically, Friends stands for life, and I just feel like
00:25:26
Speaker
watching the friends reunion was also really interesting in terms of film history, because I feel like when you just when you watch the show, and if it's not your show, that's totally fine. But I don't want to hear any judgmental bullshit about how like the show is dumb and it's stupid. Like if it's not your show, that's fine. Like television shows are not for everybody. But what the friends reunion did, I think was really solidify like how artful the making of the show was and how you know, we were talking about
00:25:56
Speaker
Like the...
00:25:58
Speaker
comedic aspect that the behind the scenes reunion kind of gave us that insight into and how it really is an art that these people were crafting. And you have to remember that the show, a show like that had never been done before. And they talked about that in the episode, how it really followed this kind of new line of developing characters that we hadn't seen. Like the sitcom really didn't follow this type of like friends dynamic before, which
00:26:27
Speaker
is what makes it so iconic. So I think in terms of kind of like visual history and film history, this was really interesting to watch the Brents reunion. And Alyssa and I love friends. Oh, I should have worn my bracelet. I have it. So on our 10 year friend anniversary, Alyssa and I took a trip to New York again. And to see Moulin Rouge on Broadway is very, also very important to our friendship.
00:26:54
Speaker
And for our 10-year friend-a-versary present,
00:26:59
Speaker
we gave each other Moulin Rouge bracelets that inscripted in the band was Come What May from Moulin Rouge. And we had no idea that we had gotten each other's and we each exchanged gifts and it was the same gift. And then we realized that we were bracelet buddies.
00:27:26
Speaker
So I'll pop up the iconic scene of, is this friendship? I think so. And so, Alyssa and I just, we watch Friends all the time. We were living together. We watch Friends all the time. She's been here over the weekend. It's just, it's like comforting. And it's also, I feel like the show has aged so well. There are definitely like some lines and a few singled episodes where I'm like,
00:27:54
Speaker
Like, that's not great. But overall, the show has aged, I think, better than any other show of that era. I think we were talking about, I was talking with someone about Cheers. Was that you? Maybe it was Juliana. I was talking about the show Cheers and how sometimes like, there are way more, I think, problematic kind of
00:28:16
Speaker
plotlines in some of those old iconic shows. And it's great that we learn and grow from those things. But I think overall, like I consistently find friends hilarious. I will never stop laughing at the show. It is funny every single time I watch it. And I'm not off put by its aging. I guess the way I am with some other like TV shows and movies. Right. The fact that it's still funny like 20 years later is actually it's very impressive. Like it's it's very impressive on the outset.
00:28:45
Speaker
Um, so, so let's go into it. We have not, we've been waiting all like day and night to recap it. We were struggling last night and not to, after we finished watching it, we need not to talk about it. So give me your thoughts overall as a, as a friends fan did this like complete all of your wishes. Overall, I was like very, um.
00:29:05
Speaker
pleasantly surprised with the whole thing, really. I don't know about you. I had such this nervous stomach clenching feeling going into it to the point where I was afraid to watch it because I thought it was going to be awkward. I thought it was going to be just unnecessary. I wasn't even really excited when I heard they were doing a Friends reunion.
00:29:29
Speaker
I must say that I thoroughly enjoy the whole thing, like captivated. And yeah, that was a great experience. Yeah. I thought it was really good. I was kind of thinking about the Fresh Prince reunion. Did you watch that? I didn't watch that. It was really good too. And I really liked the Fresh Prince reunion, but what was interesting about the Fresh Prince reunion is that I feel like it was longer. And the Fresh Prince reunion had a host. And at first I was very off put by the fact that they had a host.
00:29:59
Speaker
But now thinking about it like the Fresh Prince Union was kind of like hosted by Will Smith because he's the leading character of the show and I think that with friends they kind of needed James Corden to come in because it really showed them all on like an equal playing field. I'm sure they could have done it themselves but like now it would have been weird.
00:30:19
Speaker
They needed someone to ask them the questions and get them going. Right, right. So I thought it was fantastic. There were points where I was just like cracking up and then there were other things where I was like falling back. Yeah, I definitely cried the first 15 seconds. Oh yeah, like it's just like, because the ending, I'm gonna cry. The ending episode like always gets me, you know, and then they started with that and it's like the music is like a little different. I was like, oh, fuck. And I was eating ice cream and I had to put the ice cream away just I couldn't even
00:30:47
Speaker
I had to completely focus on the reunion. But also I loved the bloopers and I loved getting to see the behind the scenes interactions, the pivot. I know that pivot is an iconic
00:31:01
Speaker
I was seeing them laugh. I did not realize they had such a good time filming. I know, I know. David Schwimmer laughing when he was actually trying to fit in the couch was so funny. It just like it brings me joy knowing that like the joy that I get from watching the show was also had behind the scenes because it does ruin like a movie or television show for me when I find out that the set was terrible for the actors and that like it was super complicated and
00:31:30
Speaker
Not enjoyable and hurtful and to know that the the joy that comes through the screen is actually being felt behind the scenes Just like I don't know it was like I feel like that was the main theme of the reunions It was just like how much they all got along and like loved each other when they were filming it Right and what it meant to them, right, you know, I think that that was really what they focused on right? Yeah, it was so nice. It was so nice We were talking about some of the things that we
00:31:59
Speaker
wish we could have seen. I could have watched 15 more hours of the Friends reunion. Like this could have been a miniseries and they could have gone 10 episodes season by season. I would have thoroughly enjoyed that. But I appreciate the Friends, you know, giving us an hour in general. Yeah. But we were talking about some of the things like we would have done differently. And where was Colin and Dylan's Ralphs? Colin Dylan, whatever their names are. Ben, where's Ben? I feel like
00:32:28
Speaker
the Benz could have been part of the catwalk. I didn't really need like Cara Delevingne. Like I wasn't really sure where they got those people from. Like Justin Bieber is like, well, Justin Bieber, as soon as I saw him, I was like, where's Cole? What are you doing?
00:32:45
Speaker
I was like, why don't they have the best? Okay, but I'm usually there's some tea between like, Dylan and Cole Sprouse and the Friends Show. I don't know, because they always said they had a really good time on the set of Friends. Yeah, so were they having a bad time? Because I remember reading something about how like, they really enjoyed being around Jennifer Aniston when they did the episode with the prank episode. I read something about like, how Jen was like really fun for them to be around. Maybe I just read some tea about how they thought that Ross was a bad father, which honestly he was.
00:33:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's true. But I don't know, I wish they would have done that. And then the other thing was I feel like they forgot about Emma a little bit. Yeah, they didn't even acknowledge one time the fact that they had a child. I know because Jen was like, I feel like, you know, Ross and Rachel and all the kids, I was like, you do have a kid, like you literally have a child together. Yeah. And it was also funny, Alyssa and I
00:33:36
Speaker
were shocked that they were like, oh yeah, do you remember this? Or do you know, do you remember that episode? Like, how could you not? And they didn't, they didn't know. Like they asked Ross about a specific episode. Okay, Ross, whatever, you know, David Schmiller. And he's like, no, I don't remember. I'm like,
00:33:55
Speaker
That's an iconic episode. How dare you not remember? I know. The one where they're throwing the ball. Yes. That's such a great episode. Yeah. So I don't know. I almost feel like friends had a stronger impact on me as a viewer than it did on them.
00:34:12
Speaker
making the show. I know. And that was that's so interesting to because I just I when they did the table reads and they were like they had like the script in front of us like why the fuck do you need a script? Oh, I know. Yeah, the whole time they were reading the script. And we're just like, I know that I literally am fighting to not say all of these words right now. Right. Which is so
00:34:31
Speaker
I don't know. It's just so interesting that like the psychological impact and the amount of just friends related dialogue. I mean, I could, if you want to sit here for 10 seasons and I can recite every episode, I just feel like, why do I have that capability? And the people who lived it just like, yeah, it's so wild. I know. But like, yeah, I was saying last night, like I never could
00:34:54
Speaker
watch myself back or something like that. So I understand that they probably aren't obsessed with it to the same level that we are, but
00:35:02
Speaker
That's okay. We'll just own up to being obsessed. And that was part of what the reunion focused on as well was the impact that Friends has had on a lot of people, like not in like a sillier funny way, but like truly the fact that Friends as a TV show brings a lot of people some serious comfort and brings people together.
Friends' Cast and Public Perception
00:35:25
Speaker
And I think that's true. I mean, like honestly,
00:35:27
Speaker
if I'm anxious or whatever, just hearing friends or watching friends in the background. I don't even necessarily watch it on the screen, but just having that in the background is very comforting because it's just so familiar. Right. I think during COVID, there were also a lot of conversations about people rewatching television shows and how because you are familiar with those
00:35:49
Speaker
faces and those voices, it does psychologically, it actually brings you comfort to rewatch those shows. And I think that's why a lot of people spent a lot of quarantine early on rewatching some of those shows that they grew up with or remember loving. I mean, we watch Friends all the time, but I still rewatch it during quarantine. I mean, it is like very relaxing. And as those people were talking about, it was just, I don't know, it was really like heartening to see
00:36:17
Speaker
those people who were really struggling at a certain point of their lives and to feel like they had friends or were in that dynamic or part of that dynamic or could in some way relate to just some of the plots that were happening was like really sweet. And I just hope that's translated to the cast and crew. Like the show is so meaningful and we'll forever be that way, you know?
00:36:42
Speaker
Um, another thing we were talking about is which guests we really liked during the reunion. I think they had like a good- Who's your favorite? Well, I mean, I feel like I have to say Lady Gaga because- Oh yeah, she was there. She was so cute. The way she just like came in the door and was like- She was so cute. Yeah, I know. She was adorable. I know, I know. It was so cute. I know that Lady Gaga is a really big prince.
00:37:04
Speaker
I really did not know that. So Lady Gaga was great. Tom Selleck and Maggie Wheeler. Maggie Wheeler is so cute. I love her. My personal favorites were Monica and Ross's parents.
00:37:20
Speaker
I thought they were adorable. Elliot Gold and Judy Pickles. Yes. They were so cute. They were so cute. They looked just like they used to. I know. And they still look like they were the parents. Yeah. They just like still looked like they were just like... I just wish they were like married in real life. I know. Elliot Gold was married to Barbra Streisand. What? Yes. I did not know. I know. I don't think they're married anymore, but they were married for a period. Oh, wow. I know, but he like kissed her on the forehead. I know.
00:37:45
Speaker
Oh my God, it was so cute. It was so sweet. I do think I actually had tears in my eyes for the whole hour and 45 minutes. Yeah. I know. Because by the time they would be ready to dry, they would do something else. I know. I know. I know. The parents were so cute. If you could have had another special guest join the reunion, because they talked a lot about Sean Penn was there, Brad Pitt was there, the iconic cat, and Robin Williams in the episode, who would you have
00:38:13
Speaker
Liked to see in the reunion who's some of your favorite special guests? I mean I would have liked to see Bruce Willis especially since he was like a Character he wasn't just a cameo. Mm-hmm Yeah, I don't I I'm surprised he wasn't there honestly. Yeah, that would have been great Yeah, Bruce Willis like his storyline may be one of my favorite of the yeah, he was so good It's just like you think of Bruce Willis as this like serious dude and he comes on and he's just like uber and I love
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah, that would have been fun. Yeah. Yeah. What do you feel like was missing? Um, I feel like Carol and Susan. I fucking love Susan. Susan is so funny. Yeah. And I, I actually saw her, what was I watching? Um, I was watching something in the actress who plays Susan was in it and I just like, was she looks great. She looked great.
00:39:06
Speaker
What was I watching? I'll figure it out. I was like, oh my God, Susie, it was just so nice to see her on my screen again. Yeah, that would have been good. Well, do you have any other thoughts about the reunion? Anything you want to add?
00:39:22
Speaker
I hope Matthew Perry's okay. Should we talk about Matthew Perry? We shouldn't say anything negative about Matthew Perry because I have seen some articles, first of all of people who have not even watched Friends, so like the audacity, but I have seen some articles or whatever talking about
00:39:39
Speaker
this and that about Matthew Perry and how like people blah, blah, blah, we're concerned. Let's just cut him a break. I think he's, you know, like he has a history of struggling and let's not make fun of him. And I think that he was doing great. I, my concern about Matthew Perry was that I feel like the other friends are not including him in their lives. And like, I just hope he's okay and happy. And like the part where they were talking about how they're all in touch, which honestly, I'm not,
00:40:10
Speaker
That was a little sus. I don't think they all talk to each other. But they all hung out. Do you remember that photo that they took at one of their houses? I know that they do all hang out. It's fine. You don't have to be BFS forever. But also, Monica and Chandler, Matthew Perry and Courtney Cox were also spotted at a bar before COVID. Really? Yeah. In 2019, I feel like it was a whole article.
00:40:33
Speaker
For days, people were just talking about this encounter that Courtney and Matthew had at a bar. They just went out for a drink and they were just out together. I don't know. There's this one part where they were talking about all of them being in touch and Matthew Parry's like, I don't hear from anyone. And everyone else laughed, but it's kind of an awkward, guilty laugh.
00:40:52
Speaker
I just kind of felt like he was telling the truth. Oh, I know. And then what was the other part where they were talking about Monica's future, what they picture their characters doing in the future. And Monica's all talking about herself, which is great. And then Matthew Perry's just like, hello. Just wanted to make sure that I'm still there. Yeah. It was very Monica and Chandler moment. It was. It was. And it was like it came across where it could be funny. It could be him joking. Obviously, he's probably got a dry sense of humor.
00:41:19
Speaker
I just hope our little baby Chandler is- Yes, I love Chandler. I love- Chandler may be my favorite friend. He really- I- He's not my favorite friend, but he's really essential. I don't know if I have a favorite, but if I had to pick one, it might be- Rachel's my favorite. It might be Chandler. Also Joey. Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I just like them all. I think I'm really really sure, Rachel.
00:41:40
Speaker
being kind of like, oh, dominant, capable of doing things, but also like, not capable of doing things that I think I'm incapable of doing things. But then it's like, Oh, well, you can not write so that's really true. Yeah, okay. I like that. I like that. I, I do feel like in regard to the Matthew Perry of it all, I feel like the I feel like the reason people are talking about him so much is because
00:42:02
Speaker
he was the one I feel like with the least amount of like screen time over the course of the reunion. Not that obviously, no, that he wasn't present. But I just feel like they were ignoring him on purpose. I don't know. I just feel like the editing was so that he just wasn't speaking as much as the other friends. And I feel like that comes across to us as like, Oh, something's up. But
00:42:24
Speaker
I think it's just the editing. I don't know. I don't know. Also, just with all the ageist kind of bullshit that's come out after watching the Friends Union, like shut the fuck up. I just don't have anything to say. They're literally older. They're older. Why wouldn't they look older? Right. And I think it's just that...
00:42:45
Speaker
in Hollywood, you have this idea that like, especially for wit for women in Hollywood, but then it makes me feel bad for the men of friends to who just like they're, they're
00:42:55
Speaker
They're just human beings. And if we are the type of people who advocate for equality and anti-ageism in the Hollywood system, then stop talking about the way they look. They all looked fucking fabulous. Oh, can I just say something? Yeah. Matt LeBlanc could still get it. And also when they showed those pictures of young Matt LeBlanc, I couldn't read for like 30 seconds.
00:43:18
Speaker
And I know everyone knows Joey's cute in season one, but like, I think it's the aesthetic that they give him that I don't really like. I kind of sound like my men in leather apparently, but the acting that he did and other things and pictures of him.
00:43:35
Speaker
Yeah, no, because they always have like, Joey's always the hot one. And I never thought of Joey as being like, incredibly hot. Like, I just he's so cute. And I love Joey. But I don't know. There's when I was given that plot line, I've never been like, Yeah, Joey's like the sexiest man on the planet. But oh, I take 20 something year old Matt Lovelock. Oh, yeah. And he was so he just looked like so happy to be there. And like, yeah, it was still very much. Yeah. Yeah, it was so nice. And but I just think that
00:44:06
Speaker
I think it's visually jarring because we're talking about how we rewatch episodes every single day. Yes, I imagine that it's jarring when you watch people age at a young point in their life, so 25 to 35. We have watched that 10 years of their life for so long, and for people like us who watch it constantly, we are used to seeing them
00:44:31
Speaker
them age in only that time span. So yes, I suppose it's drawing when you're only used to seeing them as they exist in the world of friends, but they are human beings. And I just feel like this conversation around the way they look is like totally unwarranted. And it's like, it's disgusting. Like they didn't have to give us the friends part of the reason that they didn't want to do it in the first place. Like how do you go from everyone is seeing you in your absolute prime to just
00:44:56
Speaker
immediately seeing you 20 years older. Right. Yeah, of course you're gonna look older. Right. You're a person. Let's all be fine. I hope I fucking look like Jennifer Anderson when I'm 55 years old. I know. Like, Jesus Christ. Oh, yeah, but but it was overall just the most wonderful thing. It was. Yes, it was truly wonderful. I'm so glad that I got to watch with you. It just Yeah, it worked out. Perfectly. Yes. Oh, oh,
00:45:22
Speaker
Oh, oh my God. We are going to the friends experience in New York City in a few weeks. So I'm just, I'm very excited. Oh yes. We will definitely keep you posted. I'm very excited. It's been something we wanted to do for a long time. Like ever since we heard about, we were just like, we have to go and now we're going to go. And I'm, I'm super excited. Hey, I literally have been wanting to go so bad, but I will not.
00:45:46
Speaker
go without Bianca. Wow.
Veterinary Work and Pet Ownership Trends
00:45:48
Speaker
So I've been waiting. Awesome. Okay, cool. So are you ready to transition in today's arc pop talk?
00:45:56
Speaker
Absolutely. Okay, sweet. So I'm going to ask Elizabeth about a few questions about her work, her life as a veterinarian and how that actually is relatable to art history and how people who are working in other fields other than art should and often do have an impact on our visual culture and our visual art history.
00:46:21
Speaker
Alyssa, can you talk a little bit more about your job and how being a veterinarian impacts or impacts you in a world of visual arts?
00:46:34
Speaker
Yeah, so just like a quick intro for what I do. I am an emergency veterinarian only, so I don't do any of the normal, you know, veterinarian stuff that you think about. But, you know, I see dogs and cats and other animals on an emergency basis. What's the weirdest animal you've done in emergency procedure on? A guinea pig? I don't know. I mean, I've seen like owls and falcons and, you know, New York City
00:47:04
Speaker
It doesn't have that much wildlife, I guess. So it's all to be known, like who has some sort of weird exotic creature. I know that in Florida, in our clinics in Florida, they see some weird stuff. Would you operate on an alligator?
00:47:17
Speaker
I would kill an alligator. When we were in Florida, she was very scared of the gators. Yeah. I actually am still scared of the alligators, like even here. Really? I just, you know, you never know when one's gonna get you. Alligators and sharks, man. Sharks? I hate sharks. Really? I didn't know that. They're fantastic for the environment. I would never like purposely kill one, but I don't want you to dare bring that to my clinic. Yeah. Could you operate on the sharks? Absolutely not. Interesting. Absolutely not. Sorry to interrupt.
00:47:44
Speaker
Where was I going with this? Talk about what you do. Yeah, so mostly it's dogs and cats. And yeah, it's really great. I mean, definitely I think that my job is influenced by all the dog culture that we see around us. And even in the last few years,
00:48:07
Speaker
I think that veterinary medicine has really been influenced by the culture that we have our pets in. And so for some reason, in the last few years, we have decided, you know, as a collective community that dogs are just, well, dogs and cats. I don't want to, I don't have a cat. I like cats. She has a, she has a God type. I have a God cat. But, you know, I have a dog and I guess I just focus mostly on dogs.
00:48:35
Speaker
The culture that has surrounded pet ownership recently has been pretty insane. I mean, the whole dog mom, cat mom. Oh, yeah. Like stickers and shit chains. Right. It's all about in the whole like, oh, millennials don't want kids. They want dogs and cats. Because we can't afford it because we don't have a living wage. Actually, kids are gross and disgusting. We hate them. So anyway.
00:49:00
Speaker
So you're a pet to your kids. And so the role of a veterinarian definitely has evolved from a caregiver, a medical caregiver to like a host of pediatrician, which is kind of freaky, really high pressure. But yeah, just like the culture of animal ownership recently has really made it a different sort of career than I expected. Yeah. Yeah. That's super interesting.
00:49:26
Speaker
I think it's really, I think you're really our first guest who hasn't had a background of study in the arts. And I think it's really important for us to talk to those people who don't study the arts, but appreciate it and acknowledge how visual culture impacts them. Because I think that's like a very,
00:49:51
Speaker
frustrating stereotype about working in the arts is that I only connect with people who understand the field of art and can kind of relate to talking about it. So can you talk a little bit more about how as you work in your field and as you see these kinds of changes happening in your field,
00:50:09
Speaker
How do you find yourself kind of connecting with the arts and pop culture as well? I mean, we're talking about kind of references and film and TV and not just art history, but like how you insert yourself and make a point to insert yourself into visual culture and how that can even like help relate to your patients. Like how does that help you as a doctor? How may that help kind of visual learners? How can you explain like what's happening with their pet through anything, you know, surrounding us visually?
00:50:39
Speaker
I, as you know, the common citizen do appreciate a good piece of art and having, you know, best friends who are so involved in the arts
00:50:51
Speaker
has really opened a lot of doors and you know, just for appreciating it. I love going to museums with Bianca because it's literally like having a personal tour guide. It's like, oh, what's this about? And I get so much more info than I would ever have gotten from, you know, like a little placard on the wall. So whatever. Yeah, the label. I've never heard anyone call it a placard. Well, it's cute.
00:51:15
Speaker
that's what it's called. Yeah so you know I obviously anyone can enjoy art but as far as it relates to like animals I really obviously there's so much historical art that includes dogs and cats and other animals but even
00:51:37
Speaker
in a more modern sense, you know, dogs and movies and literature and pop culture. I think that that really has an influence on my work, you know.
00:51:50
Speaker
there's documented surges in breed popularity due to certain movies that come out and 101 Dalmatians. That's fascinating. I see, whatever. Corolla just came out too. Yeah, and I actually read an article that was like, please don't buy a Dalmatian. Because that's what happened when the first movies came out that everyone went and got a Dalmatian and had Dalmatians, but they're not for everyone. Right. It really leads to, unfortunately, poor breeding practices and irresponsibility. Wow.
00:52:20
Speaker
that definitely influences what I do and how I have to be aware of some breed issues. But no, that's good. That's good. What else was the question? You asked a long question. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That was a very long-winded question. I apologize as a host. I should keep it more concise. But no, I think that's great.
00:52:42
Speaker
I'm always trying to break through to other people who are in fields different from. And when we were in college, you know, and we lived with scientists and engineers, like, you know, for several years and like, it's, it's, it's, I don't want to say like a constant struggle, but I feel like I'm always kind of having to like justify myself to other people who work in like STEM. You guys know, I hate that word. Like you steam, please. So I feel like.
00:53:12
Speaker
it's important for us to just have those conversations about like how, like you said, like our visual world does impact your field. And we can still talk about that. And we can still have like meaningful conversations, even though like, I don't know anything about art, you know what I mean? Like, don't say that. It's not super productive. You know things about art, you just may not know like the backstory. Right. And I don't know everything about art either. And appreciate it. Right. Sure. No one knows everything about art.
00:53:40
Speaker
But if you like it, then learn about it. Yeah, definitely. So you just went to the Museum of the Dog in New York City. I want to hear everything about the museum. Yes, if you didn't know that this existed, like I did not know it existed until I got a targeted Facebook ad.
00:54:00
Speaker
It exists. And it's close to Grand Central Station. It's a fairly decent-sized museum for just being about dogs. But yeah, it's like two stories. It is all about dogs. I didn't see a single cat. Is there a museum of the cat? I don't know. I haven't looked forward. Probably. Why would a museum of the dog be better than a museum of the cat? Because dogs are better than cats. That's the tea.
00:54:29
Speaker
Anyway, so yeah, it's got it has like a pretty extensive collection of historical art, classic art, you know, not that's not so much modern really. A lot of
00:54:44
Speaker
portraiture. So, you know, it's got a pretty extensive collection. It also, I thought it was cool that it has interactive exhibits. One of them, you could scan your face and it would tell you what breed you looked like. Would you like to guess a breed? I'm still not okay.
00:55:03
Speaker
I'm still actually really sad about it. I did have my mask on, to be fair, but would you like to guess? So you didn't get a spaniel, I'm guessing. No, it was very insulting. Okay. I feel like the most insulting breed I can think of just personally, because I don't like these dogs. I'm not this type of dog. I feel like I'm going to go pug.
00:55:21
Speaker
Not a pug. Actually, it's a dog you like. It's a dog I like? Yes. Is it a vishla? No. That's my favorite kind of dog. His name would be like Milov. A bulldog? Yeah, an English bulldog. Do I look like an English bulldog? What the hell? That's so rude. You're so cute, Alyssa. Bianca! Do I look like an English bulldog?
00:55:46
Speaker
That's so cute. I feel like you're so cute. I just love them so much. They're so wrinkly. I do not look like English. You don't look like English. What do I look like? Do you look like blossom? I don't know. Something with like a round face. Not a hound. Definitely not like a hound. Something with like a more, I don't know, like a rounder face. And you have curly hair. I do have curly hair. Not like a poodle. You have a nose kind of like a poodle.
00:56:15
Speaker
Okay, I would love to be a poodle. Yeah, you have like a very like pristine nose and you're very like, um, like posh. I feel like, and she does have curly hair. Um, you can't see it right now, but she does have catfish. So maybe, maybe like a, oh, maybe like a miniature poodle. Oh yeah.
00:56:36
Speaker
Okay, that might be good. Yeah, I hate those dogs. No, I don't. I love them. There's I want like a big food like a giant standard. Yeah, I would rather be a standard. Oh, like an Afghan. See, I was gonna say not pretty enough. I hate them. But I feel like I would be an Afghan. You kind of would you're very small. My nose. I feel like it's like sure like long like I feel like I have a long face and I hair is actually an
00:57:01
Speaker
Oh, that's so nice. And I have long limbs. So I feel like I would be a Greyhound. But you should be an African though. I don't like Greyhounds either. Greyhound with beautiful hair. Yeah, they're not my favorite. I'm like beechless. Okay. Well, you're not a beechless. No, I'm not. It's fine.
00:57:17
Speaker
Not as beautiful. Anyway, so that was insulting. But then there was this table where there were all these dogs floating around and you could drag them into the doghouse and learn about them. Naturally, I spent most of my time on the Cavalier Spaniel. But it had all these categories, like origin, health, their benefits as a pet, blah, blah, blah. They had all these breeds. And it was really fun to learn about all of that. I just appreciated that they put the time and info into making that. And then there was an exhibit upstairs where you could
00:57:47
Speaker
train this virtual dog to sit and play fetch and all that kind of stuff. Oh, that's cute. That was fun. And then they have rotating exhibits. So the one that they had there was actually dogs in media, basically. Oh, cool. So they did have an exhibit on Lassie and Beethoven and Snoopy and all that sort of stuff and all of the original movie posters. So that was interesting to learn about. Yeah. I feel like I'm always asking you about
00:58:15
Speaker
which dog would make a good pet or like I want to know more about like certain breeds. And I can always ask him like, Oh, I love the way this stuff, like bulldogs. Like I think bulldogs are so cute, but Alyssa's like. Yeah. You know that episode of SNL with Debbie Downer and they're all at Disney World and she's like, you know, that's me. Whenever anyone talks about getting a dog, they're like, I want a golden retriever. I'm like, Oh, are you ready for cancer?
00:58:42
Speaker
So, yeah, it's actually really bad. I need to stop doing that. But it's it for me, it's useful because I feel like I'm coming into the I think that the hound range. Yeah, no, no, the one a visual is pretty healthy. I will say, you know, as someone
00:58:57
Speaker
who didn't take their own vice because I have an expensive dog that is prone to becoming sick. I would say definitely you should adopt a shelter dog because there's something called hybrid vigor and literally it is the scientific concept of mixing breeds makes them the healthiest
00:59:20
Speaker
Like most valuable because they're... Yeah, like everything that comes through is like the best of the best. It's like what's happening with like making babies right now, like picking your own genes and stuff. Right. So the best genes are what comes through with mixed breed dogs. So if you want a healthy dog that's unlikely to get sick, get a shelter dog. That's awesome. Yeah. Don't buy an expensive ass cowgirl or something. She's cute.
00:59:48
Speaker
She is very cute. She's a very good dog. So the last question that I kind of want to talk to you about, hopefully this won't be like so long winded. Just break it up into sections, please. Yeah, break it up into sections. Well, I want to kind of go back to that idea that you were talking about earlier with like animal art. And if you show people your popsocket, is it Miss Blossom on your popsocket? Yeah, but it's a little worse for wear. Oh, here's my Museum of the Dogs ticket.
01:00:16
Speaker
Oh, cute. Oh, that's cute. So I feel like animal portraiture has also taken on like its own genre of art. And I think that very much exists within the portrait genre of art history. I feel like every time I go to a museum, and I see like a lady with her lap dog, you know,
01:00:38
Speaker
I'm always sending snapshots to Alyssa because I want to know more about this dog. I think it's so interesting that you can gauge history and history of breeding, like you were saying, through art history. Is that information valuable to you as of that? Have you ever been in class and they bring up an old portrait of
01:00:59
Speaker
No, that would be amazing. That would be really cool. But I feel like you need an art class and I agree. I very much agree. You can definitely see the history of breed development through portraiture. You know, even, for example, the Cavalier Spaniels. So Blossom is a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. There used to be a King Charles Spaniel, which was
01:01:21
Speaker
uglier, you know, a shorter nose, just like not cute. I mean, it's cute, it's very cute, but like most people wouldn't agree. And you can see back in the day, and that breed still exists, but back in the day, that's one of the ancestors of the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. So the farther back you get, you see, you know, these dogs over the years, their snouts become longer, they become bigger, and that happens with all sorts of breeds.
01:01:48
Speaker
Um, you really can see the development of basically, you know, they used to be used for a certain purpose and they're used for a different purpose or, um, or they're not, they're used just for companionship. Um, so you can see them develop over the years. And then, you know, also my favorite thing is seeing, you know, the little dogs that used to be little, just status symbols and little companionship. I love Chinese crustos.
01:02:16
Speaker
beautiful, gorgeous. So watching them, you know, with their, their lovely regal lords and ladies, and their purpose is literally just to exist and be cute. And I love it. We stay. I don't think they had the mark. That's kind of what I want to be. This cute and exist. So that's my favorite is I follow this dogs in art Instagram account and I see all these like fancy ladies with
Dog Breeds and Social Status
01:02:45
Speaker
their fancy dogs. I'm like, Oh, that's me.
01:02:46
Speaker
Oh, that's me. Oh, that's me. So I love that. I really appreciate a good ornamental dog. Oh, yeah, that's really interesting. And yeah, it's like you could only afford certain dogs.
01:03:00
Speaker
Right. And even now, you see that. They're a status symbol for sure. Dogs today are very much status symbols. Take the French bulldog, for example. As Lady Gaga. You can't go out on the street with your French bulldog. You better bring mace or a knife because someone's going to steal it from you. Right. Right. And yeah, Lady Gaga, obviously, unfortunately, experienced that. But
01:03:21
Speaker
principal dogs are thousands of dollars and you really, it's a status symbol. It's like having an expensive watch or anything else, you know? That's so interesting how just any type of dog, like even looking at a golden retriever, like you look at it and you have these like visual associations of like a white, you know, Midwestern family and their golden retriever. I think that's a super interesting point. Yes. Yeah. All dogs really do.
01:03:47
Speaker
put off their own, you know, concept of whatever that owner is. And of course, it's not always accurate, but but we still nevertheless have those like perceived
01:03:59
Speaker
notions of what that dog means to its owner, just like we do in animal portraiture. So when we walk into a museum and we see these associations, like you were saying, with lap dogs or wealthy kind of noble men and women featuring portraits, not only could they afford to have their portrait taken, but they could afford to have their portrait taken with this accompanying symbol of sadness. And there were even dogs that were illegal for the public to own. I believe the Pekingese
01:04:30
Speaker
in China was like a guardian of the temple, I believe, just correct. Or like only the royal elite could own them. And then there were quite a few dogs like that that were really only allowed to be owned by royalty or they were considered basically like a spiritual sort of breed that just the common person really wasn't allowed to have. Wow, that's so interesting. Yeah, even thinking about
01:04:57
Speaker
animals in association with gods and goddesses. And in art history, we see that a lot. With many as Olympia, for example, we have a cat. And a cat in art history is kind of this symbol of licentious behavior. So Olympia, of course, we have, I don't know, I have her hanging on my wall up here. But
01:05:17
Speaker
Um, we have this cat that kind of symbolizes like a woman's infidelity and things like that. But in, you know, something like a portrait of a married couple, we have the dog that we see. And the dog always symbolizes this, um, meaning of, of loyalty. So it's really interesting how also in art history, we have dogs and cats, you know, come off with, with different meanings. So you, you.
01:05:42
Speaker
have these status symbols and symbols of wealth, but you also have these other meanings that animals are specifically placed in portraiture. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And then we were also talking about before we started recording, I'm thinking about hunters in the snow and how we have this kind of
01:05:59
Speaker
I want to say gaggle of doe dogs. I don't know what a herd of hounds like these. We have a pack. I don't know. What's the year of it? We have this group of hound dogs and hunters in the snow and how that also
01:06:16
Speaker
that imagery is like passed down and I think like most people know if you obviously if you get like a hound dog you might know that it's used for like hunting and things like that but it's really interesting to also see that in something like art history and how that is actually translated through through science you know and what artists and artisans like create out of these other meanings from animals so
01:06:39
Speaker
The other thing I was curious about is actually as we were walking around town the other day we were like looking in the windows of galleries and there was this whole section of this gallery dedicated to animal portraiture and I just wanted to like get your gauge on on animal portraiture and I guess like you were talking about earlier like this like newfound kind of fascination with our own pets and and how we were talking about how
01:07:06
Speaker
they really feel like they're children for people like us and people on our age group or for people who can't or don't want kids. But it's just really fascinating to see this kind of emergence of animal portraiture specifically as a genre of visual culture and what I think will be
01:07:25
Speaker
passed down into a genre of art history. So we're not just seeing portraits of people with their animals, but people now are paying to have portraits done of their animals, just like they might have paid like a photographer to take family portraits or been wealthy enough to have someone paint portraits of their children or their whole family.
01:07:45
Speaker
Do you experience that with a certain type of clientele? How do you feel about this rise in animal portraiture? Because we do it and we showed you. Yeah, no. I mean, I have a pop socket of Blossom. I have a bag. My bag has my face on it. It says Blossom. I had it custom designed. I have all kinds of
01:08:07
Speaker
Cavalier Spaniel merchandise, like makeup bag with Cavalier Spaniels. I always look for Cavalier stuff. I have two of a Cavalier Spaniel. Yeah, I'm, you know, I'm just as sick as all the rest of them. So I love it. That's really interesting for artists to thinking about like,
01:08:24
Speaker
Like you were saying you paid to have this back like custom made. I just think it's interesting that there's a group of artists who do this type of work. Like, that is also a means for that's their whole thing. Yeah, art practitioners actually like make a viable living.
01:08:40
Speaker
I don't know that just like the transition from like people to animals is super interesting. No, I love it. I have zero problems with everyone wanting to have their dogs and cats and everything preserved in art. I think it's really great. I do think that, you know, it's
01:08:58
Speaker
something special to have and it's something that we've been focusing more even in veterinary medicine like not to be a downer but you know when when animals uh when owners have to put their animals down yeah we make sure they have a nice like paw print we you know give them i'm a pet mortician they have pet morticians so like really it's it's crazy it's just
01:09:17
Speaker
I think that lately people have really recognized and understood and appreciated just the value that pets bring to their owners and it's totally okay if like your pet is your baby and I don't want to hear it from people who are like, oh, the word dog mom is offensive. No, it's not.
01:09:35
Speaker
I am a mother and blossom is my baby. Also, you don't like there are just so many circumstances behind parenthood. Like don't sound like passing judgment on people. Like you don't know what their status. Someone doesn't want to have kids or their ability. And also the cost. I'm just going to say like, yeah, no, she's expensive, but she is not a human child. And I stay nowhere near as much on her. And it's like, so I get like, I can't afford to have children. So shut up. Yeah, just
01:10:00
Speaker
Absolutely not. Yeah. Yeah. Cool. Well, are we ready to take a little break and then we come back? We're going to play a little Animal Crossing game. I would love to play some Animal Crossing. All right. I'm excited.
01:10:37
Speaker
All right. Welcome back, everybody. We're going to play a little game where Alyssa, a very extensive game player, I would say, in my book. I dabble. You dabble. I dabble. Yeah. She isn't playing Animal Crossing and building up her island, and she is going to read me the descriptions of the art that she has collected.
01:11:02
Speaker
And then I'm going to try to guess which piece of art it is. And I'm very excited. And I have to just, first of all, this is the perfect combination, like Animal Crossing and art. I just feel like it's like. You wouldn't think, but it's so fantastic. And I'm just I'm also really excited, like, you know, over the course of quarantine, you and Juliana were kind of initially sending me like, oh, like, this is so cool. This is it. You can like collect this piece of art and decide if it's a fake or not. And I think that's a really just
01:11:32
Speaker
other interesting and very cool dynamic that Animal Crossing is bringing. And also like, you know, game culture and kind of like, quote unquote, nerd culture, like we've talked about with Wooper and Nebula. I mean, I just I think like this crossover is really cool. And I'm just I'm a big
01:11:48
Speaker
big fan of it. And this was all Alyssa's idea. I really just want to play Animal Crossing. So let me just explain Animal Crossing real quick to those who have not had the fortunate chance to play it. So Animal Crossing has really existed over multiple platforms. I believe it's more of like a Nintendo-based platform, but the GameCube and the Wii and the Switch now, I started playing Animal Crossing when I was, I don't
01:12:14
Speaker
by a I don't know a baby and um I played it on the GameCube and it really it has kept the same concept over the years. Do you always have a museum? Yeah so you've always had a museum but the art feature I believe is new on the Switch version Animal Crossing um New Horizons so um the goal of Animal Crossing
01:12:38
Speaker
They say there is no goal. There's no way to beat the game. You basically move to an island. You're a human. All your villagers are animals and your goal is to pay off the mob boss, Tom Nook. He's a raccoon or something. A capitalistic key. Yeah. So you move to the island. He's like, oh, I'll give you this house for $5.
01:13:00
Speaker
So you take it, of course, because that's a fantastic deal. And then he's like, oh, you owe me $15 now. Yeah, then the next step, he's like 98. I'm literally in 2 million bells worth of debt on my house right now. Yeah, but I have a really great house.
01:13:15
Speaker
The goal is just to pay off your house. Every time you pay off your house, he adds a new room and you're back in debt. But you also want to, on your island or wherever you are, collect all of the bugs, collect all the fish, collect now all of the art pieces and complete your museum. So I think that the museum honestly is the most enticing and the coolest part of Animal Crossing because they use real life
01:13:39
Speaker
things. So all the fish and bugs and fossils and art are real things you can find in the world. And just like the amount of knowledge that I have about things I didn't know existed, honestly, specifically the fish and the insects, like all these sorts of fish. I'm not a fisherman. And now I know they exist. I think it's really cool. Like
01:14:06
Speaker
Really, it's yeah, there are fish that I'm like, that is a cool fish. I didn't know they existed on Animal Crossing. That's pretty cool. Yeah. So you know, same thing with the art. So every two weeks or so, this little fox seems red. He comes to your island. And he is in a boat.
01:14:28
Speaker
and you can go in the boat and he has, it's very shady, the whole thing's very shady. He has a few pieces of art that you can look at and you can buy them. And you are in charge of deciding or determining if they are fake art or real art and you're able to look at them up close, you can zoom in, everything. But the catch is that they're labeled like,
01:14:56
Speaker
amazing painting or fantastic painting. They're not labeled like, you know, whatever. So you can't just Google it. So there have definitely been pieces of art where I don't know what it is. I've never seen it before. And then you can't just be like,
01:15:11
Speaker
three people in a field. It's hard to Google that. And so yeah, you end up doing research and I don't know. I'm sure a lot of people who don't care just buy the art and figure out if it's really or not. But that's cool that people are really like searching for art history. I mean, I'm sure there are definitely sheets online. You can just look at the art guide, but it was fun.
01:15:36
Speaker
I have not an extensive but a decent collection of art that I've bought from Red. And, you know, he mails it to you the next day. So you don't know until the next day if it's fake or real until you bring it to My Man Blathers.
01:15:50
Speaker
the owl who is in charge of the museum you give it to him and he's like oh yes this is a real amazing painting or he's like I was like not get out of here that's trash so yeah so anyway I've collected a few really decent pieces okay and
01:16:06
Speaker
Um, I'm curious to see if you're skilled and knowledgeable enough to know what they are based on their animal crossing description. So I'm going to read the placard as some call it, um, next to the painting. And you just tell me if, um, you know what that is. Okay. Are you ready? Yes. All right. One, two, three, go. Okay.
01:16:37
Speaker
This is the amazing painting. Okay, amazing painting. This masterpiece, painted by 17th century Dutch artist, Blink, depicts a military gathering. At the time, portraits usually show their subjects standing still, so this was a leap forward in technique. For many years, art scholars thought that the painting was set at night, but a restoration revealed a dark varnish. We can now see the dynamic poses and lighting as they were meant to be seen in the daytime.
01:17:04
Speaker
Which painting is that? Okay, 17th century, you said. Dutch painter, is that what you said? Yes.
Art Guessing Game
01:17:12
Speaker
Okay. Who likes to work with light? Who likes to work with light? I feel like... Oh my gosh. I feel like I want to go Rubens. Okay. It's an R name. It's an R name? Okay.
01:17:29
Speaker
A military gallery. It's a bunch of guys, they're in a room wearing fancy hats and mustaches. They all have those like doily collars on. Oh! Oh, um, um, oh my god, I feel like I can picture it in my head. Is it Roigal? No. Okay, no, that's not what I was saying. It's, um... The Night Watch by Rembrandt.
01:17:59
Speaker
Oh, motherf- Oh my god, wait, I think in my head I was getting- Wow, that's really embarrassing. The night watch. You have time to make up for it. Okay, this is a good one, this is a good one. Okay, okay. Okay.
01:18:17
Speaker
quaint painting. quaint painting. okay. this is uh this piece earned blank the nickname master of light thanks to its exquisite contrast and depth. okay i feel like i'm gonna go is it caravaggio? no. blank painted this masterpiece at only 25 years of age many note that it's surprisingly small in real life. oh is it the mona lisa? no. surprisingly small in real life. yeah i mean it's about the same size as my animal crossing character.
01:18:48
Speaker
Oh, is it Girl with a Pearl Earring? It's not, but it's in the same room. Well, Vermeer only has... I watched the Girl with a Pearl Earring recently. Oh, Girl with a... Vermeer only has about 19 paintings or something like that. Well, it's one of the 19. Oh, is that Woman at the Window? She's standing by a window, but that's not what it's called. Oh, okay. Can I see what it is now? Yeah, it's called The Milk Maid. Oh, The Milk Maid. Okay, okay. Okay. This is going to tear.
01:19:18
Speaker
I bet you'll get this one though. I bet you will. I really thought you were going to get that one. This one's called Warm Painting. Warm Painting. It is said that this painting is a more discrete version of an earlier work known as the, that's a clue, the blank. It is also known that blank was quite popular in his own time. Could these facts be related?
01:19:43
Speaker
A third unrelated fact, the word blank refers to a stylish young lady of Madrid. A stylish lady of Madrid. She's laying like this. Okay, so a reclining nude.
01:19:59
Speaker
She's not nude. She's not a nude. Okay. Um, wow. This clue, that, okay. The clues in this one, I feel like are harder than the other ones. The clothes, Maja or Maha. I really don't know. Oh, I've never seen that. You've never seen that? No, I don't know. I've never seen it before. I've never seen that one. Well, now we know. We'll look it up. Okay. It's really nice. I'll flush it on the screen. I've never seen it. Who's it by? Um, oh yeah, I should say. Oh, Francisco de Goya. Oh, Francisco Goya. Oh, I've never seen that. Yeah, that's very cool.
01:20:26
Speaker
Okay. Okay. Oh, Spanish. Okay. I was trying to figure out like a clue with the Madrid, but okay. Okay. Do you want one you're not going to get? Okay. Let's do this one real quick. It's called the glowing painting.
01:20:40
Speaker
A famous piece by, I'll give you the artist even, Turner, a painter of light. It shows an English navy ship commanded by Admiral Nelson as it's being tugged towards its dismantling. Okay, I feel like this one is difficult because all of Turner's works look the same to me.
01:20:58
Speaker
Turner has a lot of kind of seascape and he also did like the the London Bridge burning but it's like he has a lot of views kind of from the water so that one I probably would not it's called the Fighting Timmeraire it's a boat in the water we like it but we don't love it sorry okay here's a good one okay moody painting
01:21:25
Speaker
Blank painted this piece of a farmer sowing wheat seeds in a field after moving to the countryside from Paris. Okay. If the piece reminds you of a Van Gogh, that's likely because Van Gogh himself was inspired by it. Is it Corbet's The Sower? It is. Good job. Wait, Corbet? Millet. Oh, Mie. Millet. Mie is the sower. But it is the sower. Okay, okay, okay. Okay. Here's another one. Common painting.
01:21:52
Speaker
This signature piece from Millett, who was known for depicting the lives of commenters in the 19th century. Is it the Gleaners? Yes, it is. Oh, okay. That would be the one that I had to Google three people standing in a field. Did it work? Actually, when you said that, I was like, I feel like I know one that could work for that. Yeah. Good job. Okay, this is one of my favorites. Okay, I got one.
01:22:18
Speaker
Yeah, you got two, right? Oh, two from Mie, okay. Okay, this is called Sinking Painting. I think this one's lovely. I did not know of this one before Animal Crossing. Blank is a tragic figure in the Shakespearean play Hamlet. Okay. There is an otherworldly expression on her face as she lies unconscious in a river. She is surrounded by the beauty of nature as she floats between life and death. Okay, is it Waterhouse's Ophelia? It's Ophelia, but it's Millie's.
01:22:48
Speaker
oh okay okay so it is Ophelia a different version than I was thinking okay but I think it's just lovely it's very beautiful yeah and I'm saving my okay this is my other favorite okay this is another one I didn't know existed until Animal Crossing and this is honestly I would literally hang this in my house it's fantastic okay this is called proper painting proper painting
01:23:14
Speaker
Close inspection of the mirror behind this painting subject reveals many mysteries and paradoxes. I feel like I know it. In fact, the painting is based on multiple perspectives, which explains the unusual placement of some items. Sadly, this is Blink's last major work. He passed away a year after it was complete at age 51. Okay, is it Manet's bar at the Folich Bocher? That is exactly right.
01:23:35
Speaker
I think that is just I fucking love this painting. There's like so like art historians just gravitate toward this painting because it's like the idea of like the unknown and like the trickery of the eye. And if you look in the mirror, the mirror does not reflect what's happening in your space. So there's a very big
01:23:56
Speaker
controversy in the art world of months, there's a lot of dialogue between art historians about what is happening in the painting. Is that a mirror or is it not? Or are we looking at like, kind of a reality and a perceived reality from the perspective of the bartender? I love that. Yeah, like, are you the man in the mirror when you're looking at the painting? Right, or not, because you wouldn't be able to see yourself. But you have to be the man in the mirror. Unless he moves at an angle.
01:24:20
Speaker
I don't know. There's another girl in the background that looks a lot like this girl. I love Manet. I think that's really wonderful. I love Manet, yeah. Ooh, okay. Okay. Good, good, good. Okay, we got a couple more and then we have the big finale. How am I doing? Okay. You're good. Okay. Okay, this one's called Flowery Painting. Flowery Painting. Blank painted this piece when he moved to the south of France in search of more vibrant colors. Yellow was Blank's favorite color and he made seven paintings featured Blanks during this time.
01:24:50
Speaker
I'm gonna go van Gogh sunflowers. Yeah, okay. Hot take, kind of boring. Perfect painting. Perfect. Yeah, we'll see. This still life is known to have inspired the work of many other artists, including Pablo Picasso. Rather than trying to recreate an image, Blank captured the beauty of shapes from many angles. With this work, Blank draws on both the atmosphere of his subjects and the spirit of its beholders. Okay, um,
01:25:20
Speaker
Is it by Cezanne? Yes, it is. Oh, okay. I love Cezanne. Cezanne did a bunch of still lifes, so I may not know what the title is called, but some of my favorite still lifes are ones that he does of fruit. It's fruit. Okay, so I really love those. I feel like I'm gonna go like some peaches in a bowl, you know? Same vibe. Same vibe. Not the same man.
01:25:50
Speaker
What would they be called? Still life number four. It's literally fruit and fruit. Fruit and fruit. It's literally blank and blank. Name some fruits. Pears. No. Apples. Yeah. Apples and oranges. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, it's beautiful. Yeah, it's beautiful. Okay.
Diversity in Art and Animal Crossing
01:26:14
Speaker
We'll do one little bonus. This is not a painting. You're not going to know what it is. I suspect I would be quite impressed. But you know, I just want to, it's not just paintings. Animal Crossing has sculptures as well. And I've really been focusing on the paintings, but I just wanted to include this little piece that I thought was pretty cool. This is called the Tremendous Statue. And I'll just read the description. This bronze ding from ancient China is the largest and heaviest ever found. The script on the inside suggests it was created to honor the king's mother.
01:26:43
Speaker
So yeah, it's just like, it's like a chest or something. It's that coppery green color. So that's cool. Yeah. I really need to get some more sculptures, but that's not, that's almost not like a sculpture. It feels like it's not a sculpture structure. Yeah. Yeah. But they do have an artifact. Cool. Okay. Are you ready? This is the last one. Okay. Is this a big finale or are we got one? Oh, this is a big finale. Okay. Okay. Moving painting. You're going to get it. Are you ready? Okay.
01:27:13
Speaker
A painting of the Roman goddess Blanc riding a scallop shell. After being born in the ocean, the name Blanc is said to actually be a nickname given to the artist's brother who was built like a barrel. Why this nickname was transferred between siblings is a mystery lost to the ages. Oh wow, okay. What do you think that might be, Bianca? Well, I feel as though I'm gonna go with Botticelli's birthbeatness. You're right. Isn't that beautiful? You have this in your museum? Yes, I got that.
01:27:40
Speaker
like four days ago Bianca. I got that literally just in time for you to see it. Wow look it looks stunning on your wall. It really does. Oh she's gorgeous. Yeah. Do you know what you need next? What? To accompany this piece is Botticelli's Primavera. So um
01:27:57
Speaker
Cremavera and Bertha Venus are these works by Botticelli that are done mythological figures rather than kind of these Christian figures that were maybe more popular during the time Botticelli was alive, and they accompany one another. So it's likely that they were commissioned by the Medici family at once. But in the in the Uffizi, they
01:28:22
Speaker
If you have, I'm gonna, for the camera, like, if Botticelli's Birth of Venus is over here, then in the gallery, Primavera is over here. On the opposite wall? Yes, on the opposite wall. So I feel like next, you need Primavera. I don't know if red has that picture. I'll have to check. You gotta, can we make a call to people at Animal Crossing? Yeah, we'll try. Wow, it looks beautiful. It looks great on your wall.
01:28:43
Speaker
Fantastic. So that's my collection so far. It's great. It's a very good collection. Very white male collection. Indeed. So I feel like the people at Animal Crossing, if you're listening, let's get some women artists. I feel like Artemisia definitely belongs in your museum. You could definitely get Artemisia Gennaleschi because I feel like her vibe is kind of like
01:29:20
Speaker
I don't know if it's just me buying those things, but also I don't know that they have a
01:29:26
Speaker
super wide range. Have you seen modern art come through? Like modern art and contemporary looking art come through red. Okay, that's really interesting. It's pretty much older stuff. Older, like the masters. Yeah, yeah, quote unquote. Well, that was really fun. I feel good that I got the basics. Um, hopefully I, that's not too embarrassing. No, I mean, I didn't know any of those existed.
01:29:56
Speaker
Well, thank you so much, Alyssa, for being here. Thank you for suggesting the game and playing it with us. If you, yourself, are playing Animal Crossing and you have Animal Crossing art, I want to see some more of it, because I want to see a little bit more of the breadth. I wonder what else people are getting and getting anything else in their museum. That's really cool. And hopefully, yeah, that's really interesting that they're gravitating towards the master, old masters.
01:30:24
Speaker
And, uh, I feel like, you know, Animal Crossing Nintendo, if you're hiring, I feel like I could be your, um, your blathers. You know,
Veterinary Stress and Pandemic Impact
01:30:34
Speaker
you need blathers. Blathers is kind of sexy. Let's just have it be said at Animal Crossing HQ.
01:30:40
Speaker
Cool. Well, is there anything that you want to plug? I mean, we allow that question to most of our guests. Do you want to plug where you work? Do you want to plug your Instagram? Do you have anything upcoming that you want to talk about? I really definitely do not want to plug my Instagram. Can I just plug something that I'm passionate about called, can you please be nice to your veterinarians and stop yelling at us and being mean? Because it's really rude. You can definitely plug that. COVID has really made
01:31:07
Speaker
veterinary medicine, very stressful. We're very busy and regular vets are very busy and therefore emergency vets are very busy and yelling at us because you have to wait for an hour or two or three or six. It doesn't help anything. Right. And so just everyone, how about in general, be nice to other people, but yeah, stop yelling at your veterinarians because it makes me go home and cry. Don't yell at your vets. They worked very hard to save lives.
01:31:33
Speaker
I'm always just so impressed whenever you're talking to me about your day and the work that you're doing. I could never do anything like that, first of all, so it's very impressive and I admire that a lot. Thank you. Thank you for being very good, Ben, and I would never yell at you. You would never yell at me. In all 12 years, I seriously don't think you've ever yelled at me. Have I ever yelled at you? No, I can't imagine. I've yelled to you.
Podcast Credits and Acknowledgments
01:31:58
Speaker
Yes, to you about other things. No. Cool. Well, thanks so much. And with that, I think we will talk to you on Tuesday. Bye, everyone. Art Pop Talk's executive producers are me, Bianca Martucci Fink and me, Gianna Martucci Fink. Music and sounds are by Josh Turner and photography is by Adrian Turner. And our graphic designer is Sid Hammond.
01:32:45
Speaker
you