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S2 E5 Kristian Lander - Filmmaker, Paranormal Researcher and podcast Host
15 Plays1 month ago
This week i am more than delighted to have Kristian Lander with me.
Kristian is a filmmaker, a producer, and involved with The Phenomenal Nottinghamshire, Our Curious World, Paranormal Webinars for ASSAP (Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena), and also the ASSAP podcast Serious Strange.
We started off talking about Kristian's weird passion of the lamppost porn
We continued with hearing stories from his mum, about ghosts doing the dusting to Teachers telling Friday afternoon ghost Stories
After realising an Ethical dilemma whilst investigating, Kristian decided to go down the research route, before joining ASSAP, and then starting up with not 1, not 2 but three podcasts
We then talk about the 1987 Thunderbolt incident in Mansfield UK, was it a plane Crash, was it a UFO, or simply a weather event, and did the Russians really turn up?
Kristian and i also discussed the Hollinwell incident in 1980, did 358 children really just collapse from Mass hysteria?
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Christian Lander
00:00:12
Lee Hatfield
Hello, everybody, and welcome to the latest episode of SIPA Paranormal Chronicles. Today, i am delighted to have Christian Lander with me. Christian is a filmmaker, a producer, and the podcasts that he works with are, because a few, The Phenomenal Nottinghamshire. So there's a clue. It's from the UK.
00:00:35
Lee Hatfield
Our Curious World.
00:00:36
Kristian
Thank
00:00:38
Lee Hatfield
the ASAP, which is the Association for the Scientific Study of Anomalous Phenomena. That's not easy to say on a Saturday. He does their paranormal webinars and also their ASAP podcast, Serious Strange.
00:00:54
Lee Hatfield
So Christian, I know we've been talking for half an hour off air, but welcome.
00:00:59
Kristian
it's It's been brilliant. Thank you very much. It's been great to come and join you here today. Obviously, we shared a conversation a few weeks ago, and it's good to be reciprocal under and see what you guys have got happening across the pond.
00:01:11
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and you'll not believe some of the stuff we've been talking about. But before we start the podcast official, there's something I need to
Fascination with Lampposts
00:01:19
Lee Hatfield
speak to you about. And I've got i've got the police on speed dial.
00:01:25
Lee Hatfield
and need to talk to you about your lamppost porn
00:01:28
Kristian
Lamp post porn, yes. so So the lamp post porn kind of began as a... Stratford-upon-Avon. So we're basically in a William Shakespeare country.
00:01:38
Kristian
I went for my birthday, perhaps 2021, right? So this is post the this the pandemic, right? So places had just started opening up. So me and my friend, we went to, stayed the Shakespeare Hotel, stayed in the host haunted room there.
00:01:53
Kristian
And but while out exploring Stratford-upon-Avon, I realized that every lamppost is extraordinarily different, you know, and every one of them had a different plaque on it. So it turns out, of course, during World War the proposition was they had to get as much iron and metal as possible to build planes and ammunition and so on.
00:02:13
Kristian
So they cut down all of the lampposts across many different cities. And Stratford was actually, they cut down so many that the city became black. So what happened is every city in the country donated them a lamppost.
00:02:27
Kristian
So as such, if you've ever walked past, walking around Stratford-upon-Avon, every lamppost looks entirely different. And from that point, because I then noticed this, everywhere i went on like a day trip or a holiday or a travel blog, I noticed...
00:02:39
Kristian
Indeed, it's true, because every all the architects of every city were all local, and they all have a very unique way of how they have their lampposts look. And because of that, I started taking pictures of lampposts in different towns. and If you go to like Blackpool, for instance, they're all like giant tentacles.
00:02:55
Kristian
If you go to like in London, they they the kind of the traditional Victorian square gas lamps and so on. And every area has an entirely different look. And it's quite interesting to see that. And so I just started taking kind of eclectic pictures of them in their setting.
00:03:10
Kristian
And then it basically I started hashtagging it with lamppost porn. And since then, that's now got a bit of momentum on the old on the old Twitter, on the old X.
00:03:19
Lee Hatfield
So how many photographs do you think you've got of lampposts?
00:03:24
Kristian
It's not a huge amount. I mean, we joke instead, it's probably about 50 that's gone up on there that are all quite different.
00:03:28
Lee Hatfield
Oh, OK. It's not too long.
00:03:29
Kristian
I take them from all kinds of different places from like up on the East Coast, Northumberland, Newcastle area. Again, going going as far west as Blackpool, going down to like Cornwall, Wales,
00:03:41
Kristian
of Peterborough, Norwich, all very different places. And because of the industries that find themselves in those areas, they're often made of different materials as well. Some might have a kind of copper sheen, some the kind of like industrialized metal.
00:03:54
Kristian
But of course, in more recent years, everyone kind of looks like they're all being imported from China. So every they are they lose and their identity in some cities. So I thought it was fun just to kind of remind us what each area was like.
00:04:05
Lee Hatfield
you You definitely need to go to my hometown of Boston because in our town centre, we have what's called the five lamps.
00:04:12
Kristian
Okay.
00:04:12
Lee Hatfield
And it's basically one that's got five branches with five lamps on. And it used to be a tradition for New Year's Eve for all the drunken lads to see who could get to the top of it by shimmying up the pole.
00:04:24
Kristian
Alright, excellent.
00:04:26
Lee Hatfield
But obviously that got stopped, with health and safety and all this malarkey. But yeah, go to Boston, take a picture of the five lamps and then tell me that you've taken it. I need to know.
00:04:35
Kristian
Okay, you know what, next time I'm free that way, I will definitely do that.
00:04:38
Lee Hatfield
Do that. And if you don't, like I've got family there. They will hunt you down. They will tell you.
Early Exposure to Paranormal Stories
00:04:45
Lee Hatfield
So obviously, this is a paranormal podcast. It's not about lampposts.
00:04:49
Lee Hatfield
So how did your paranormal journey begin from your your earliest point of being able to remember?
00:04:58
Kristian
Okay, so the earliest point in terms of beginning, I don't want to dwell on this too long, but ultimately, my mother told me of an account that happened to her when she was 12.
00:05:09
Kristian
So when I was very, very young, my mom shared this experience to me. And that experience is in a small town terrace community. Turves, which is a, it still only has eight houses on the street now. It's in the Fens. It's just outside Peterborough in the UK, which is Norfolk, which is I appreciate that you have an international audience. if you ever look at the yeah UK, Norfolk is the strange ear that sticks out on the right hand side.
00:05:34
Kristian
In the centre of that is kind of where you'll find Peterborough and the Flag Fens, but it's our major farming community. So this street turns, there's eight houses on it. My mother, when she was 12, she had three brothers, and obviously mother or father, they moved into this particular address.
00:05:51
Kristian
He had just come out of the army, and my granddad and this guy, they'd swapped houses. Basically, they're growing family, and the other guy i wanted to downsize, so they swapped houses.
00:06:03
Kristian
And in the time my mum was there, my mum started having experiences in the bedroom. Her encounter is that's quite a simple one. that's a she could always She only used to sleep with the lights off.
00:06:16
Kristian
And so she always had her door closed as well. Her brothers would like the lights to be on in the and the landing. And so one night she woke up. She said it was about one o'clock in the morning.
00:06:27
Kristian
And the door was open. She she called out, hey, mum, is that you? She thought it was a power outage. and So we're talking, this is like 1970, which caused power outages and blackouts were pretty common back then, particularly being out in the Fens.
00:06:41
Kristian
So she's like, someone said no, the door closed. Two days later, a similar thing happened, and an elderly lady came in, and she says she looked, even though it was dark, this woman looked like she was normal, like it was daytime. She looked very different to the the space in terms of her colouring. And she came in, and she just did shoot the dusting on her on a lady's cabinet on the wardrobe and she then says, it's okay, I'm going to go now.
00:07:08
Kristian
And then she then told her parents, my grandparents, they just blatantly disregarded this. The next night it happened again and this this lady left a handprint on her mirror of her dressing table and then the following day you know all the family kind of put their hand to the shape of this handprint on the on the the mirror and it was none of them matched up.
00:07:34
Kristian
And she said, over the course a number of weeks, this lady would come back pretty regular. And she says that she was an elderly lady. She had pom-pom shoes, which are kind of like red moccasins with a little white pom-pom on the top. She wore a pinafore dress.
00:07:46
Kristian
Her hair was tied back. And she just seemed to just come in, do the cleaning, pot her around, sit on the bed sometimes, just ask her how school's going, get up and leave again. and When the person whose house they swapped with came over...
00:08:03
Kristian
My mum, again 12 years old, told him, hey, this this happened here. And when my mum went on to describe this individual, he described it as being, that was my wife, but she died about five years ago.
00:08:15
Kristian
Yeah. So i must have heard that from, you know, when I'm like five and six years old, that perhaps was the first ghost story I'd heard. And at this point, i'm aware that I'm aware of books in my mum's collection, which is after the one of those books is right here, which is The Uninvited.
00:08:31
Kristian
i was I was aware that she had read that book. Maybe me the Triangle was in her collection. Another book that she had... that she ordered via Reader's Digest. was called Mystic Places. remember being about eight when that came.
00:08:43
Kristian
So that was a really big, black, massive book used to sit on my lap. Huge, really silver pages, and it kind of covered topics like Atlantis, Hollow Earth Theory, Ghost Encouncers, the Fort Lauderdale, Time Slip, the ancient cultures, mythologies, ancient aliens are kind of sort of mentioned in there. Cherish the Gods was anyway.
00:09:06
Kristian
So this kind of propelled me into that interest. But also at my school at the time, on a Friday afternoon, had two teachers called Miss Jewett and Miss Green. So I'm eight years old at this time. And they would kind of, for the Friday afternoon, would they would tell a ghost story. They would tell us a story full of suspense. and It would often be like the Bermuda Triangle or the Mary Celeste.
00:09:28
Kristian
And they would ask the kids, what do you think happened? could you And I think that's so fascinating that a teacher would do that. We probably wouldn't do that these days, but it really kind of fired the imagination up. So in terms of what my inspirations were and what led me on this journey, all three of those things are of kind combination led me to kind of following this path.
00:09:46
Lee Hatfield
See, and that's the kind of school that I want to go to. Well, yeah, because that would be great on a Friday afternoon to to have your teacher you talking about ghost stories.
00:09:50
Kristian
Yeah.
00:09:56
Lee Hatfield
It'd be amazing. It'd be really cool.
00:09:58
Kristian
Absolutely. Yeah.
00:09:59
Lee Hatfield
So obviously, that was your first instance of getting to know the paranormal.
00:09:59
Kristian
Yeah.
00:10:08
Lee Hatfield
How did it kind of move forward through your life to to where you are
From Investigator to Researcher: The Shift
00:10:12
Lee Hatfield
now?
00:10:13
Kristian
Well, kind of guess I found myself you know gathering local reports, talking to people who had had encounters, yeah just kind of ad hoc, really. In the prompt 2004, I attended Most Haunted Live you know in Nottingham. I was at the Anersley Hall where I met Steve Parsons. I could have a bumping at Kirito Keith when I was there. And I got to meet those kind of characters. So that kind of, it made it feel a bit more like it was real. There's people who actually do this professionally, people who do this as a job. So I just got more into gathering local reports, local encounters.
00:10:44
Kristian
I went to the Nottingham's library. It's quite replete with some paranormal encounter books in there. In fact, there is... so bit A bit side story here.
00:10:54
Kristian
Within the Nottingham archives, there's two red folders. They must be like massive binders, really long, and within there, clearly someone over the course of the 1960s to mid-1990 was clipping every paranormal ghost UFO counter from the Nottingham Evening Post and putting it into this box.
00:11:16
Kristian
So I had a massive collection that people were never looking at. so I was able to go and verify these stories and look and read these accounts. I was basically writing them up effectively. And then, and i will I'd hate to say, I joined a local paranormal group.
00:11:32
Kristian
I found some interesting partied people. One was connected to a local historian. One was like a local enthusiast. And there was a couple who clearly were on the journey. And they we all attended a an event at local pub where they were talking about local history, about Lord Byron and the ghosts from Weir Mill and that kind of area. And I got invited to join that group, got to meet other local historians and more interesting characters from there.
00:11:57
Kristian
That kind of became a bit more of a serious journey. But 2010 kind of came along, so three to four years later, i was on a, hate to use the word, residential ghost investigation, and was in this house,
00:12:13
Kristian
And i was I was aware that that my compadres, they were talking to the lady downstairs, and I overheard the question going, hey, have you looked at your medication? This lady was not very reciprocal to being told, hey, what is happening to you might all be a course of your medication or might be a more grounded explanation.
00:12:34
Kristian
And here's me. I'm upstairs in the bedroom where I've been told that there's a portal. I've been told that as well as ghosts have been seen most often. And i've sat here and I'm on this kid's bed. It's her daughter's room.
00:12:46
Kristian
And I'm just like, what am I putting myself in for here? It dawned on me the ethics. Never had that clicked me before. But potentially this person downstairs is going to be very very mad.
00:12:58
Kristian
Clearly we're not believing her and we're trying to ground her. I'm sat up here sort of having a mock vigil because don really know what i'm doing. And I thought, this woman could say anything.
00:13:10
Kristian
She could say that someone stole something from her house. She could say that I've gone through, you know, i I went through her daughter's clothing or whatever. And it dawned on me the position that paranormal investigators go full of enthusiasm, trying to chase ghosts, the paranormal, yet we put ourselves in really strange positions or a safeguarding perspective in really dangerous situations.
00:13:31
Kristian
So from that point, I really became i stepped away from being an investigator and I stepped more into the research aspect because I felt i felt everything ethically investigators going into residential houses is perhaps not the way to do things.
00:13:46
Kristian
But also just... I was aware at the same time I'd read a case in from Florida where two ghost investigators had gone to a house and had basically been attacked by a person in the house.
00:14:01
Kristian
And again, I was reading stuff like, you know, it was it was a pizza delivery guy who'd gone into a house because the person says, could you put pizza on the table? Also got attacked. So this person already had a history of those kind of things.
00:14:12
Kristian
But again, investigators willingly, hey, by the way, do you have a ghost in the house? Let me come in. Let me have a walk around. You don't know what this person that you're going to is going to do to you for their intent. And it could be some of these people could be mentally ill.
00:14:28
Kristian
And I thought, you know, that being ethical, this this we can't be doing this regularly. So I was looking for what ethics look like. And I came across ASAP. And so from 2011, I went along to their conference.
00:14:40
Kristian
I've been a member of ASAP ever since. And now I'm one of the directors.
Ethical and Safety Challenges in Paranormal Investigations
00:14:44
Lee Hatfield
It's interesting that you tell us that particular story, because when I was a paramedic working in Leicestershire, I got called to a ill person, got invited into this first floor apartment.
00:14:59
Lee Hatfield
And then as soon as me and my colleague went through the door, the door closed and we heard a click. And we were then hostage for the next three hours.
00:15:07
Kristian
yeah. yeah.
00:15:08
Lee Hatfield
So I fully understand what you say. And it's interesting that you mentioned about ethics because most of what we've done is public locations.
00:15:21
Lee Hatfield
You pay to play kind of thing. But if we do get asked to do a private residence, we do have a set of questions and these questions, it it covers nine pages, but you've got space to answer.
00:15:43
Lee Hatfield
So once we, if people are genuine and they want our help, they they're going to take their time to go through these questions.
00:15:43
Kristian
yeah
00:15:50
Lee Hatfield
And some of them are quite personal. Yeah. It does touch on the mental health. It does touch on medication. But that's not the first question. It's kind of like towards the end. And there is like an and advocate that says we're asking these questions because of our safety and all that kind of stuff.
00:16:13
Lee Hatfield
People could lie. Of of course they could.
00:16:15
Kristian
He
00:16:16
Lee Hatfield
but that's that's But then we will also, once the person has sent it that questionnaire back to us, we will then meet up with them, maybe in a public place, not at or but there there will be be at least two or three of us that turn up, and then we'll go through the questionnaire.
00:16:32
Lee Hatfield
and Obviously, having a background as a paramedic, you can kind of pick up on people's behaviour.
00:16:40
Kristian
can, yeah. canya
00:16:41
Lee Hatfield
So that that kind of is out our safety net, so to speak. But yeah the amount of people that say, oh, yeah, if you've got something in your house, come and then they're just they just plough straight in, they are leaving themselves open for for anything, really.
00:16:57
Kristian
Yeah, and I think that there perhaps, thankfully, there perhaps is not as many cases there potentially could be, which is great. But that potential is a risk that I'm worried for investigators going in, putting themselves in that position.
00:17:11
Kristian
Because I hate to use the phrase, I think a lot of people are very naive to the behavior of other people.
00:17:16
Lee Hatfield
Oh, for sure.
00:17:17
Kristian
So, and you could go in there with all the right will in the world, for sure, but unless you... done at least a little homework on this person you don't know what you're putting yourself in for even just that that opening conversation of a phone call, you know, sharing a bit discussion, you know, learning what they feel that it is how it's affecting them, you can kind of suss a lot of that out quite early through a kind of filtering really And I think that that's where you kind of have to have that grounding, first of all.
00:17:44
Kristian
You can't just believe that they believe it. You have to go, i believe that they're having an experience. There might be medication involved. There might be schizophrenia involved. There might well be a genuine phenomenon happening.
00:17:56
Kristian
So for their experience, whatever it might be, is probably real to them. But often, you you do need to have that delicateness that is, let me just try and filter this first through the lens of what it may be, or let's let's let's suss ourselves.
00:18:00
Lee Hatfield
Exactly.
00:18:11
Kristian
And then to have a conversation.
00:18:12
Lee Hatfield
Exactly. And one of the one of the good things that we are prepared to do if it occurs, when people go, well, I'm not comfortable asking these personal questions, we then go, well, okay, let's put it into perspective for you.
00:18:27
Lee Hatfield
If you have black mold in your property, if it's bad enough, it can cause hallucinations. If you've got dodgy wiring and you've got yeah large electromagnetic fields, EMF, again, that can cause hallucinations. So there are some medications if you're not on the correct like proportions can do the same thing.
00:18:52
Lee Hatfield
So that's why we ask these questions.
00:18:53
Kristian
Sure
00:18:54
Lee Hatfield
So we we're not accusing them. We just need the full picture because we can say, well, OK, yeah, you've got black mold in your bedroom.
00:19:06
Lee Hatfield
Potentially that could be causing your issues. Yeah. So we do kind of explain things. We don't just go. You need to answer these and then we'll decide.
00:19:14
Kristian
Yeah, and there is a bit of to and fro.
00:19:15
Lee Hatfield
But
00:19:15
Kristian
I mean, I've been called to cases where someone just wishes to share an experience they had 50 years ago because they can't explain it and it's bothered them ever since. Can I share my story?
00:19:23
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:25
Kristian
And that's actually kind of wonderful. That's actually nice to share with them sometimes because they've been that it must be such a heavy burden on their heart and their mind that they never know who to release it to because they don't trust anyone.
00:19:36
Kristian
or they don't going be taken seriously.
00:19:36
Lee Hatfield
No.
00:19:38
Kristian
I've now done that perhaps more times in the perhaps two or three last two or three years than even any kind of residential or any kind of public event. I've just kind of been been able to listen to someone and their accounts.
00:19:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:49
Lee Hatfield
That's it.
00:19:49
Kristian
And I think that's kind of service.
00:19:50
Lee Hatfield
i'm gonna Yeah, and I do think that in this day and age, 2025, 2026, more people are feeling more comfortable talking about it because it's more in the public domain now than what it was 15 20 years ago.
00:20:01
Kristian
For sure.
00:20:07
Kristian
That's right, yeah.
00:20:08
Lee Hatfield
And we did actually go to a private residence and this individual was obsessed with the fact, I think I mentioned it on your podcast, she was absolutely obsessed with the fact that her place was haunted.
00:20:22
Lee Hatfield
But then we found out when we dug deep, she was going around the house using Snapchat on her phone, using one using one of the filters.
00:20:29
Kristian
that's right yeah
00:20:32
Lee Hatfield
So having creases in your sofa, the shadow, it was trying to make it into a face and she was assuming that that was a spirit. So
00:20:41
Kristian
<unk> it's like It's quite a fight fascinating, that isn't it? you know you've you've had a You can imagine the first time that must have happened for her, and all of a sudden it detected there was something there. And then she's going, wait minute, does it happen again? And she could go around different places in the house and she must have followed it around kind of thing.
00:20:56
Kristian
And you can imagine that it's it's almost like it's it's technology pareidolia. It is seeing her face in something. But that actually works really great because that is a demonstratable effect that we can show to people to say, hey, this this is how this works.
00:21:11
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, exactly.
Tech Phenomena vs. Paranormal Activity
00:21:12
Lee Hatfield
And when you look at all these Facebook groups and yeah you get members of the public posting pictures and they go, oh, this is my grandfather. And you go, that no, that's actually lens flare. But they don't understand all the technical reasons of rationale explanation.
00:21:36
Lee Hatfield
they kind of want to believe what they want to believe. And if they think that that beam of light on their on their picture is their grandfather, then you probably can't change the mind. But in reality, you know that it's lens flare caused by the camera or whatever.
00:21:49
Kristian
Yeah.
00:21:51
Lee Hatfield
So yeah it is a tricky line between yeah what's right and what's wrong, so to speak.
00:21:52
Kristian
Sure.
00:21:58
Kristian
Yeah, there's a building in Nottingham, a glass-shaped building. And there was someone says that they could see the Virgin Mary's outline on one of the windows. And it does indeed look like it. But what it turns out to be, it's like a water drain pipe from above hitting the a rain at a certain angle. It causes the kind of the the head shape that it rolls down the window where it's distorted to create this kind of head and shoulders shape.
00:22:22
Kristian
But of course, this has actually happened in three or four different windows on the same building. So unless the Virgin Mary is appearing in all these different windows...
00:22:28
Lee Hatfield
but Yeah, it's interesting. So let's move on.
Exploring Christian's Podcasts
00:22:34
Lee Hatfield
How did I know you said that you became a member of ASAP and that's kind of boosted your research. But how did the podcast Phenomenal Nottinghamshire, Our Curious World and then the Serious Strange come about?
00:22:51
Kristian
Okay, so let's let's talk about those in perhaps the correct order. So, Our Curious World was a kind of my... I wanted to discuss... I guess the Joe Rogan experience is such a...
00:23:04
Kristian
Everyone knows it because it is the world's number one podcast, right? is the it's still So I really wanted to do that from 2016 where I'm just having a one-to-one conversation with someone. Not to tell people can meet all the time. Some were recorded in person. Majority were recorded online. I think I did 38 episodes that.
00:23:23
Kristian
where I was just having a one-to-one, unfiltered, unrestricted conversation with someone. But it didn't just cover the paranormal topics. It also covered... I specifically chose Our Curious World because it allowed me to talk about science, technology, emerging discoveries,
00:23:41
Kristian
But also, you know, what inspires people, what engages people, what enthuses people. So I was able to dance around all those topics. and Of course, the majority were paranormal related, but it allowed me to go beyond just, why are you an investigator?
00:23:54
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:23:55
Kristian
What do you do? How do you do it? It allowed me to go, actually, so what... what what makes you tick? What makes you encouraged? And that, that was the discussion I led that allowed me to develop my interview skills.
00:24:08
Kristian
So our curious world iPhone put down is, is a, was a learning curve for me to do other things. But with that, I interviewed interviewed like the likes of Philip Mantle. got to speak to Calvin Parker, the person at the center of the Pascagoula encounter. got to be a good couple of hours.
00:24:25
Kristian
I also get to speak to Taz Thornton. She was a a strong feminist voice who has fire elements within her behavior therapy.
00:24:35
Kristian
are Really interesting characters. i got to meet Peter Laws before he became, you know, two million subscriber that he is now on YouTube.
00:24:38
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:24:44
Kristian
you know, I got to talk to him when he had like 20 followers. And so discussing, you know, what the paranormal is like, looking at the macabre side of things, you know, from the Anglican perspective, from within the church, he'd obviously just got his ministership. So when you when you meet people who are at different points in their journey and then able to look back at those conversations, it's really quite fascinating. so But I did some work. Phenomenal Nottinghamshire was 12-part series I did last year. I launched about this time last year, actually, in then January. So it was looking at... There was two cases per episode that it was kind of bite-sized audio, as opposed to being a one-hour podcast. you know This was supposed to be less than 10 minutes of particular cases across Nottinghamshire that...
00:25:28
Kristian
are generally not found in the ghost hunting books and or the ghost story books. Because, you know, i I often know many of these people. They've shared their stories to me. I've gone and had first-hand encounters with their... Sorry, first-hand reports of their encounters. And some stuff that's generally off the beaten track in terms of stories. So I wanted to record them into one space. So I deliberately did... there's 12 episodes of Phenomenon Autogramshire. I did a podcast with ASAP, which kind of covered the broad...
00:25:55
Kristian
number of those, but also the articles are on my website, christianlunder.com, so you can either read it or you can hear it, so it's an ideal for it it's it's an ideal commute podcast, really, and there's some really interesting cases that I found within that, and some bonus episodes, too, and one, I finally got of the mysteries i I tapped on, I never knew the ending to it until a few weeks ago, when I went to a local speaker in Nottingham, and it's about vampires in Nottingham, and It turns out back in the 1800s, there was a... In Derby, they were having a stage portrayal of Dracula.
00:26:32
Kristian
And they the guy who was playing Dracula turned on to drum up... excitement for the show actually went to the number of cities around here and came to nodding him and acted like the vampire on nottingham's market square which then led to vampire cases being found in the city i only learned that recently oh that that clicks with this account i found back the 1850s or 1890s or whatever but finally able to put an end to that story so that's that's quite interesting when you find these things they hook together and seriously strange kind of is the
00:27:02
Kristian
So ASAP, if you're an ASAP member, you get invited on a Thursday to Paranormal Webinars Live, which basically is a Caroline McKendrick-Gibson and myself, we present that. So we have a a live audience there. There's generally between 30 and 80 people. And then we have a live presentation or a talk or an event or a panel and a guest would present their story or their encounter or whatever. And then we would have a conversation. We'd have open Q&A.
00:27:29
Kristian
But then the episode is then recycled. to to YouTube and onto Spotify as a seriously strange episode. So eventually, if you're member, you can be there live and you can participate in the conversation or in terms of when it goes live to the public, which is really useful because it also acts a bit like a recruitment tool. Hey, you can come and join ASAP. You can join these conversations or you can have the presentation. Here you go. And we have now 256 presentations available on the YouTube channel for ASAP that are, you know, they're evergreen. Anyone can listen to them whenever they like.
00:28:02
Kristian
Dedicating to themes now because there's that many have covered those topics. So that that is building a catalogue professional talkers who are involved in academics, serious researchers, enthusiasts.
00:28:14
Kristian
So that is a really big library of content to get to delve into.
00:28:19
Lee Hatfield
And don't forget strange people from Canada that was actually...
00:28:22
Kristian
And strange people from Canada, indeed, yes.
00:28:24
Lee Hatfield
So that was actually quite a logistical nightmare because I had to fly to the UK on family business when I was supposed to do the live one.
00:28:34
Lee Hatfield
So we ended up recording it a couple of weeks before, but then I joined the live Q&A at the end from a little hotel in Skegness and I'm sat on the bed on my phone
00:28:41
Kristian
Yes. It
00:28:48
Lee Hatfield
But it was thoroughly enjoyable. And i like I do thank you for for inviting me. So it was.
00:28:54
Kristian
was fun. Go for it.
00:28:55
Lee Hatfield
So do you find, and that I'm really going to put you on the spot now, do you find that you have a favorite of those
00:29:03
Kristian
There's a few that i'm I'm very much aware have not got the traction that I believe they should. So as such, I find them to be much deeper of interest. There's like The Black-Eyed Kids by dr Peter McHugh.
00:29:15
Kristian
He perhaps is the most well-wrote author on the topic. I don't think that's got enough attention. There's particular episode by...
00:29:25
Lee Hatfield
Lee Hatfield. no of
00:29:27
Kristian
Yeah, Lee Hatfields. You're absolutely right. Lee Hatfields does not have enough attention. I think Haunted Canada, you know, as a title, although it's a bit ubiquitous, so I don't think it perhaps it's getting the attention that it deserves.
00:29:39
Kristian
I also don't like the way that YouTube titles and Spotify titles with the with the the graphic. suit each other too well. You know, you can't really have the title on the graphic. You know, it doesn it doesn't like long words. It doesn't like more than 60 characters. But how can you tell a story? So I think I called yours in the end Mills, Jails, and something Haunted Canada expose or something. Just so the YouTube algorithm goes, oh, these are really interesting topics. We can narrow it down as opposed to Haunted Canada.
00:30:10
Kristian
You have to put these like kind of like shock phrases in there.
00:30:11
Lee Hatfield
it's
00:30:13
Kristian
it's like Daily Mail head titles just to get eyes on board or so YouTube even gives them a distraction.
00:30:17
Lee Hatfield
which ended up ended up being haunted Ontario because Canada is a big place.
00:30:22
Kristian
Yeah. course, yes.
00:30:24
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. So moving on from your podcasts, there is a particular subject that's close to your heart that you want to talk about.
The Thunderbolt Incident: Mystery and Theories
00:30:32
Lee Hatfield
And that's the Thunderbolt incident in 1987.
00:30:37
Kristian
It is. So it's it's it's a story that i I came across four different times before I decided that I needed to be the one thated to investigate it because no one else had.
00:30:49
Kristian
So if I describe the story at first, and then I'll describe how we got there, and I'll tell about the encounter. They are interesting. So the day is the 12th of November. It's 1987. is...
00:31:03
Kristian
it is it's It could be raining. I say it could be raining because I've been to the Met Office. so so i've got I've got the Met Office's official data for the area. They said it was clear sky.
00:31:14
Kristian
The reports from everyone said it was raining.
00:31:15
Lee Hatfield
england It's England.
00:31:17
Kristian
i
00:31:17
Lee Hatfield
It's writing.
00:31:18
Kristian
excellent probably rough So what I have on this particular evening, it is most people in the area. So do do you know where Mansfield is? There's a question.
00:31:27
Lee Hatfield
I do, because I'm from Lincolnshire, so I know.
00:31:29
Kristian
Okay. yeah So, yeah, if it's north Nottinghamshire as you go towards Lincolnshire.
00:31:31
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:31:34
Kristian
So Mansfield is a rather large town there. Not quite a city, but rather large town. So between Nottingham and Mansfield, there is Kirkby, Kirkby and Ashfield. And that's where this encounter happened.
00:31:45
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:31:46
Kristian
So it's on the A60, so the main three roads there.
00:31:46
Lee Hatfield
I know, Kirby.
00:31:50
Kristian
So, again, it's 1.30 in the morning. People are watching one channel, and because late at night, it's 1987, so of course most channels have turned off at this point. BBC's Genome Project says the BBC turned off at one o'clock.
00:32:04
Kristian
Channel 4 didn't air past 12 o'clock, so I can definitely say that's it's chat it's central TV that's broadcasting this. is It is a showing of the Battle of Britain.
00:32:14
Kristian
So, you know, the famous World War II movie, and during the time that... Britain is getting attacked in the movie, an explosion happens. Everyone, i have 54 different accounts where this explosion is definitely recorded as an audio thing that happens in the environment. Not only does there is no explosion, there's a fire, the the school in this area, is alarm goes off, a chimney is struck, and...
00:32:41
Kristian
This chimney then, it's broken, it falls down. a gentleman who lived in that particular flat on 8 Abbey Road, his boiler exploded in the living room. The bricks went out into the walls, they surrounded the room itself, damaged beyond all recognition. In fact, if you were to go there now, you can see where the wall, the back of the house, the upstairs flat really, had to be entirely replaced and the chimney entirely replaced.
00:33:07
Kristian
Along this particular street there, this Amby Road, there I have 36 written statements where of all the damage that was caused along this street.
00:33:18
Kristian
So this includes TV aerials burning, VCR and TVs blowing, windows that were shattered inwards, windows that were shattered outwards, the an air draft that appeared to be a wave that went up the street. There is lightning bolts that went in and out of people's houses.
00:33:38
Kristian
There is number of explosions that happened down the street. Another house that got hit by this physical object. This house was then shifted two degrees pop from the upper one. So the the upper left side of the house was struck so much the house then tilted to the right. All the doors within the house then did not close properly be due to this.
00:34:02
Kristian
The inside of the upper bedroom, the wall was scorched. So it actually blistered all the wallpaper on the inside of the upstairs bedroom So he got superheated and the roof then became covered in a silver metallic material.
00:34:18
Kristian
The, uh, the owner of that particular house, I got to speak to his carer and I recorded a conversation with her, in 2020. And, uh, and So her her story is of his terror of what happened at that time. He'd gone out. He was a he was a car mechanic working on cars in his front garden, effectively this whole front area like a mechanic would do at that time, kind of working class kind of guy, grounded chap.
00:34:46
Kristian
He saw these two lights coming towards his house He saw them hit the house. At that time, he was covering these cars because he thought there was hail happening. They didn't want these cars to get damaged. So he was putting this plastic tarpaulin over these cars where his when his house got struck.
00:35:05
Kristian
And then he saw it come down and crash in a woodland called Thieves Wood. He's not the only person who saw this crash, but only one other person saw the crash. Her name is Rachel.
00:35:16
Kristian
She lived at the end of this street. Her house is facing the woodland. So she was 12 years old at this time. She sat up in her bed because the the house rumbled as this wave came across the house.
00:35:28
Kristian
She said it felt like it was like an engine had come from She heard the explosion. That's what caused her to sit up in bed. She looked out of the window and she described what she said to me was a ring of fire.
00:35:40
Kristian
And that went and crashed into the woodland. the The object not only then crashed into the woodland, set fire to the woodland. then rose up out of the woodland and crashed again in what was called Annesley Hollow.
00:35:54
Kristian
If you know Nottingham well, you probably know Annesley Hall, which is the former home of the lord Byron. Annesley Hollow sits within that within the grounds of that particular location.
00:36:04
Kristian
Beavis Wood is along the A-60. So that is that that is the series of events that happened in 1986. So 1987. 45 minutes later, there are helicopters in the air. There's two Chilic helicopters, seven other...
00:36:21
Kristian
helicopters, gazelles, lynxers among them. They then do a full lockdown of this area. So they lock down all the streets, Diamond Avenue, the main strip of the city. Army are then brought in.
00:36:33
Kristian
They secure this town down for four days. So all the streets in and out of that are closed. The guy whose house got hit, he goes to where this crash site has happened. He was then told to go away. He was threatened.
00:36:47
Kristian
There's a couple of phone calls that he has where he's like, my my house is damaged. What the hell am I going to do here? They threaten them to say, look, if you talk about this, you talk to anyone about this, you're you're going to get done for harassment. the In and around this particular time,
00:37:04
Kristian
The story that ends up in a Nottingham newspaper is called The Recorder. It's kind of one of those free advertisement newspapers. So basically 45% of the magazine is car ads and window ads.
00:37:16
Kristian
There's a story on page seven of that magazine where its it's the headline says it's a bolt out of the blue. it's a The local Asheville District Council declared this to be a weather incident.
00:37:32
Kristian
the There's an insurance company who lived on who worked on Diamond Avenue. I've got hit guyss but this this book here called Cosmic Top Secret. guy written by John King, used to edit UFO reality magazine. There's an encounter in here called File 31.
00:37:50
Kristian
I can go to it here. Basically, it discusses this very encounter. wherever it is. 25. So, there is two investigators who I come to learn of much much later in my life. There we go. Document number 9 of this encounter.
00:38:12
Kristian
So in this encounter here, it's a slightly different story to that. The bare bone facts are there, although the date is wrong. The date is wrong by a month.
00:38:23
Kristian
So there's two investigators, Andrew Emerson and Dominic Belgin. Two people who took a long time to come eventually track down, and they have eventually done so more recently, earlier than last year, in fact.
00:38:34
Kristian
So both of them were Bufora members. In fact, Dominic was an ASAP member. the So they went to this location... four days after the event happened. So when the military pulled out, whatever, they had picked up some stuff and they had shipped off whatever this object was.
00:38:55
Kristian
They described in this book here, in this encounter, to John King, a burned area of 90 square feet. They had replaced the soil.
00:39:04
Kristian
they They checked it to say it's about nine inches deep. They replaced it with clay. And But the the people in that particular area, even now, on the Facebook page where i was less I was asking for some first-hand accounts of people who remember that particular story, they are still confused whether it was a UFO encounter, a weather event, or whether they should not talk about it.
00:39:30
Kristian
So all these things are true and happening. There's a... There's it as an account that's actually in this book from, her he's an electrical engineer who works on the main strip of Sutton and Ashfield. He described poltergeist encounters in his house.
00:39:46
Kristian
He said all the lights turned on in his house. He was in the living room. his The lights that from his passages came on. the the highfi kit yeah The hi-fi came on. The TV and videos, VCR. All the lights came on on them and then they burned out.
00:40:01
Kristian
The yeah on Amby Road where these things first happened. Again, the VCRs and the TVs all burned out. So it's something very weird happened to a lot of people.
00:40:14
Kristian
Part the reason why i think the weather event is still persistent is because at the time there was an insurance broker who lived on the main street. He basically was the main insurer of many of these houses.
00:40:26
Kristian
He was unable to secure insurance to repair the TV and the video video players. because the Met Office and the government had said via Asheville District Council, this was a weather event. It's an act of God. We can't replace what it is that happened here. It's one of those things.
00:40:45
Kristian
So the insurance never paid out for this event. So it's listed as a bolt out of the blue. Now, the reason that I came across this account in... When I was going through the Nottingham City Library archives, I came across these red folders that I spoke about earlier. And in there was a newspaper clipping of an event that happened in 1997, so 10 years on that was held by guy called Anthony James. He was like a prime ufology investigator of that time.
00:41:20
Kristian
And so he hosted the East Midlands UFO Reports Association. So he was hosting an event where he had the Asheville District Councillor appear, who spoke about his encounter on that day.
00:41:32
Kristian
And he described how he saw this object doing loops to loops. It then banked, twisted round. It was zigzagging over the sky that day. it clearly was out of control. It was shot at.
00:41:46
Kristian
then came down, then took off, and then it bounced, quote his quote, and then came to rest in Alasley Hollow. But he wasn't the only person who was at this particular event talking about his first-hand experience.
00:42:00
Kristian
There was another people who heard the explosion, they dealt with the fire teams and the fire crews there who were responding. I've spoke to the the repair teams who were got involved with doing the fixing and the repairing and the fire teams who were there.
00:42:15
Kristian
But in 2011, twenty eleven i then So this is this is four years after I first read this newspaper, this clipping. So in 2011, I started to attend a meditation circle in Hucknall, again on the A60.
00:42:31
Kristian
And you know I'm just meeting new people. I'm trying meditation out, trying to relax my mind. The person who's running this meditation circle is called Alan Smith, really, really tall guy. He claims that he's a medium in his spare time.
00:42:45
Kristian
He then set e and shares to me, after six months, he goes, you're into UFOs and stuff like that? Yeah. He says, well, let me tell you a story. So he says, I used to be a National Express bus driver.
00:42:59
Kristian
And part of my job was to go from Nottingham to Mansfield and up to Leeds every day, first thing in the morning a half six. that was my That was my run every day. And i remember back in...
00:43:10
Kristian
November 1987, and i was I was stuck behind traffic. And what had happened is there was there was there was a military motorcade, he described, pulled onto the main, onto the A60, and he says it was it was a flat-back HGV truck, heavy goods vehicle.
00:43:30
Kristian
He said there was something massive on the back of this truck. and it was flanked by military vehicles at the back and the front and a police escort.
00:43:37
Lee Hatfield
Yes.
00:43:38
Kristian
And he said he followed this for more than half an hour, and it veered off, going off towards Sutton as he continued up into mr Mansfield. And he says, I i swear there was a UFO under under that.
00:43:49
Kristian
but That's what he said to me. And he says, have you heard about the encounter that happened? the the yeah Back in the Mansfield UFO case. And I'm like, no. So I hadn't. So this is 2011. didn't really touch it again after that. 2015 comes along.
00:44:05
Kristian
So four years later, i've i get an email. and the email says, hey, do you know about the Mansfield UFO encounter? And I'm like, sort of. So I then just, in my email correspondence with this guy, I scribed to him this article that's in the Nottingham archives and article Alan Smith's kind of story to me. And goes, well, you know, I investigated this on the day. I went there and I found that I was the one who took samples from the soil and discovered that they put clay where this explosion happened.
00:44:41
Kristian
And it goes down to about nine inches. I've got a sample of this for you. Would you like me to bring it? So I'm like, sure. So I then I meet up with this guy and I can only describe on this table that wrapped in foil.
00:44:55
Kristian
It looked like sponge cake, but it was it was a rubber material. And he goes, yeah, this is what this is what they put under the ground where this UFO came down.
00:45:05
Kristian
And he goes, I'm telling me tell you now they they they covered it up. Whatever happened here, they covered it up. Okay. So I put a video out onto YouTube called Did a UFO Crash in Nottingham in 1987?
00:45:16
Kristian
nice' in eighty seven And i that video has done quite well. It's got about 10,000 views. And... and The people who replied to that video are really quite interesting characters.
00:45:27
Kristian
So some of them, Anthony James is actually one of them. He's like, no, you think you need to see some more details or some more information about this? And then in 2020, a lady gets in contact with me.
00:45:39
Kristian
And her name is Billy Spears. Billy Shears, sorry. And she describes me, she says, well, my house, the UFO came over my house.
00:45:51
Kristian
I saw it. The person who... my eyes So it came over my house. I heard this massive rumble. I get out of bed. I think it's going to be another Lockerbie bombing, is what her phrase was.
00:46:04
Kristian
She says, I'm expecting to see a plane crash outside because the whole house vibrated. There was a massive explosion. I think I'm going to see another Lockerbie. So I come down. i come out my bed.
00:46:14
Kristian
I come downstairs. I go outside. So I go to my window, she says to me. And the house that's opposite theirs is the fire chief's house. So his name's are Mr. Walton.
00:46:24
Kristian
So she says that she saw him get out of his car. So he goes to his drive, opens his gate, gets in the car, drives out. He must be hitting like 60 miles an hour. He basically is then shooting towards the the fire station.
00:46:39
Kristian
So she told me thats that was her encounter. And I'm thinking, there's something in to this. There's got to be something to this. This is now four different people who've come to me and said something. So I decided to start putting some data together. I started to gather these reports together.
00:46:53
Kristian
So from that point, I then spoke to, I have 54 reports available of an audio. So the audio witnesses, they heard this explosion. Most of them believe that the explosion happened in the air, and most of them believe that something was shot down.
00:47:10
Kristian
i can categorically say the explosion is not something that got shot down in the air, but it was the boiler that was at 6 Abbey Road. as the the fire team told me, and as the council repair team told me.
00:47:25
Kristian
That was definitely explosion. It was a boiler at this house that definitely exploded. But isn' it the perception's really interesting. I have five different reports of a bit of a visual encounter. They saw something, but every one of them just describes something entirely different.
00:47:39
Kristian
Some describe a ball that's zigzagging across the sky. One describes it as it's a yellow... vehicle that they said it's got a yellow glow underneath it.
00:47:49
Kristian
One, in fact, as Lady, is quite her description is really different. She described as a green Christmas tree. And her position really interesting. She says, I was pregnant. I was i was eight months pregnant at the time. I'm sat on my floor.
00:48:02
Kristian
It's one o'clock in the morning. We're playing the game of life with my family. I've got my back against the sofa. And in front of me, I've got the bay window. so she says, I have a clear view out of this window.
00:48:14
Kristian
And this the whole house starts vibrating. There's a weird rumble. You know, we think the building's going to collapse. And then over the house is this... chris it's It's like a triangle at first.
00:48:25
Kristian
And then there's another triangle behind it, then another triangle behind it. But they're overlapping. So she says, it's like a Christmas tree. And it comes over the house. And that no one else could see that because it only took a second. And then it zoomed off and she it then curved to the right from her perspective of her house.
00:48:39
Kristian
There's an account in Amersley where a person sees it do a loop-to-loop, and she says what it looks like, the loop-to-loop, whatever it is, it comes out and it's far too low. if you know Mansfield at all, there's when where Kirkby and Ashfield becomes Annarsley, there's like the Annarsley Road, there's a particular building there that has a plaque on it. And on this plaque, it says this is the highest point in the county.
00:49:08
Kristian
So in terms of its terms of its height, in fact, on the plaque, it says this is the same height as the Ural Mountains in Russia. So it is, in terms of... from water level sea level to where that is, is really quite high.
00:49:22
Kristian
So it may be that Sonic has come out of a loop-to-loop and is, in fact, has just come out of it too low. Doesn't perhaps realise where the lay of the houses are, or sort to avoid, you know, buildings and residential streets, whatever.
00:49:36
Kristian
So that is the story of the Thunderbolt incident. But then I had more people come to me and go, actually, there's Sonic even more to this.
00:49:48
Kristian
lady got in contact with me and she she describes to me, she goes, I used to run the taxi company in Ravenshead, which is one of those little satellite villages around the area. She says, we had to redirect all of the, for for those five days, the thought or she said five days, but it even happened for four days.
00:50:07
Kristian
We had to reroute all the taxis around the area because the military had locked down these roads. So we had to go as far down as Hucknall to come back into Mansfield. We had to redirect him right out to come back in as far as like Sutton and Salford.
00:50:24
Kristian
so But she says, my husband, he is like he's an RAF nut. And it turns out that she he knows the pilot who was one of the RAF Chinook pilots who landed a Chinook in the field opposite.
00:50:39
Kristian
And he has a very different perspective on what the story is. Okay. So you can see you can see the story. It's it's a over time, it's it's it's almost like an urban legend crossed with fact, crossed with what on earth did happen.
00:50:54
Kristian
So in terms of local news, but on the 13th of November, the day after, the news cycle changed because Diana and Charles came to the city of Nottingham.
00:51:06
Kristian
And thus, of course, that that became front page news. And the story of what happened in Mansfield in this bolt out of the blue kind of disappears from local news. So those locally are still under the perspective they shouldn't talk about it. The military has told them not to talk to anybody.
00:51:21
Kristian
It's gone door to door. Do not talk. There's nothing to see here. Nothing happened. Don't ask any questions. On the... On the... I think it's the 15th of November...
00:51:34
Kristian
to police officers so two two police officers turn up at the house of the guy who was the engine who was the the mechanic to say, hey, what is it what's this stuff you reported on your roof, this silver material, this silver substance?
00:51:48
Kristian
So they take a sample. The following day, the Department of Special Sciences from London turns up, from Whitehall, and they take samples themselves, and they say and they're in...
00:52:03
Kristian
They're in like a military... But they're in a kind of an official capacity. They're in suits, but they're military suits. And they leave. Don't talk to anyone. Don't tell anybody. You shouldn't talk to anyone.
00:52:15
Kristian
day later, three Russians turn up at the house.
00:52:21
Kristian
So, again, this this is a story of that carer who but you came to live in that house with the guy who had this in kind little mechanic. And... So he's he's in it he's in his 80s now, unfortunately he has dementia.
00:52:34
Kristian
So before as that sickness was happening, he she must be his living carer. So he had recounted to her all these events that had happened. So I think hers is technically a second-hand story, but it's from a first-hand source.
00:52:48
Kristian
So she says that he'd said to her that these three Russians turned up. I didn't want them in the house. I needed to know why they were there. and i've I've got this sound clip, actually. I can send it over to you.
00:53:00
Kristian
She says that your three Russians turned up, and they wanted to to know about the silver stuff on the roof. And they wanted to know what had happened in the area where the UFO had came down, where the crash site was, because they didn't know. But he was scared because they were Russian.
00:53:16
Kristian
And he was a, I might not be an honest guy, you know, but essentially, you know, this is 1987. The Cold War is still very much a real thing.
00:53:24
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:53:24
Kristian
you know and i've got I've got three Russians at my door. Ask you questions about a UFO. Hit my house. So from this point, he shuts up, doesn't talk to anybody at all. And he was the guy who was threatened to say, if you do talk, you're going to be filed with harassment notice and you're not going to see your kids again.
00:53:43
Kristian
so something very serious happened in this particular area. It's a phenomenal case because what appears to be the case is that So Rachel's perspective, so she was the let she was the young girl who heard the explosion.
00:53:58
Kristian
Her house is at the opposite end of the street, so she sits up and she looks out of the bedroom window and she sees a ring of fire. That's very much her description. And I watched her argue, argue with all the other people on Facebook when I put this request out there.
00:54:13
Kristian
Because all their encounters were like very audible, some visual. Then there was a slide that melted. These trees got set fire. These roof tiles got burned and singed. The garden farming garden equipment got melted.
00:54:27
Kristian
The TV videos got blown in the houses they because the obviously the area was connected to the roof. So whatever came down the street had extreme heat and burned all these rooms.
00:54:37
Kristian
And she says, yeah, I saw it was a it was the afterburner of a plane. But she was the only one who had that perspective based purely on her position. So she always argued, she says, when I saw Top Gun as I got older, I saw the afterburner at the back of the plane. That was the ring of fire that I saw it was a plane.
00:54:55
Kristian
And then if you look on that YouTube video from the I made 2015, one are the comments is, is that, yes, I was a helicopter pilot and what crashed was a Harrier.
00:55:10
Kristian
So there's this really weird story here where you have a UFO. It hits everything. It's a weather encounter. The government doesn't pay out because they say, no, it's an act of God. No one's at fault here.
00:55:23
Kristian
And they maintain that. And there's this strange heating of all these houses on this strip. and you have military involvement. They shut down the area.
00:55:34
Kristian
There's there's the there's the the account where it's clearly backed on a truck, it's taken away, and then they they repair the roof, they repair the buildings, they repair the the the chimney of this these houses along here.
00:55:48
Kristian
in fact, the house that got hit got nudged over. That actually had to be demolished, and there's an old private residential estate built there now. The... So the perspective is it might well have been a Harrier that may have done a loop-to-loop in the sky.
00:56:04
Kristian
The pilot perhaps was too low. He came out of his loop too low and basically scorched the top of the top of these houses. That may well be the conclusion of the story.
00:56:17
Kristian
But of course, in this book from 1999, this came out here, there's a
00:56:25
Kristian
There's a magazine called Nexus, which is an Australian publication, and there's an account on Stephen Greer's website, which you can find in the Wayback Wind Machine. They are the only three places on online you will find an encounter of this event happening.
00:56:40
Kristian
But they all kind of put it firmly in the UFO section that there's a cover-up here, there's an event happened here. I think it's more than likely what we saw was a plane that crashed. And that was the reason why it crashed and then was able to come up and dive again into Amersley Hollow. Because...
00:56:56
Kristian
The person who responded to that video says, yeah, the back aileron got hit as it hit the house and clipped the back wing, that the aileron. That's what caused it to have in made it unstable in flight. And that's what caused it to bounce and come back, come up and back down again.
00:57:13
Kristian
So it's fascinating because it actually is every aspect of what should be UFO encounter.
00:57:17
Lee Hatfield
Thank you.
00:57:19
Kristian
It is described as such. It is remembered remembered as such. But actually, it has a more grounded story. But there is a cover-up. The cover-up is the government today still maintains it was a weather event.
00:57:30
Kristian
Because I got them to still tell me that back in 2000 when I contacted Ashford District Council. I says, look, this is what I have. I believe that there's this encounter. The RAF says they they they wouldn't confirm to me what it was.
00:57:42
Kristian
But I think this was a plane crash. And they're like, no, it's a weather event.
00:57:48
Lee Hatfield
That is crazy.
00:57:48
Kristian
So... It's a full journey that has all these different elements in there. when i When I told this story at an ASAP conference, Stephen Volk, the writer of Ghostwatch, was in the audience, you know, Midwinter of the Spirit, and he stood up and clapped this and says that was the best story I've read and it the best that's the best journey of story I've read as a presentation because, damn it, the amount of times I come to these things and they always leave it as an ubiquitous ending that doesn't mean anything. But you actually you have a conclusion. He says to me, and I says, that was brilliant. Thank you very much. And like, soon as Stephen Volk said that to me, I was like, oh my God.
00:58:26
Kristian
I'm a happy buddy now.
00:58:27
Lee Hatfield
of
00:58:27
Kristian
i can I can live and die happy.
00:58:30
Lee Hatfield
So we've got the weather event.
00:58:34
Kristian
Yep, so it's officially a weather event.
00:58:35
Lee Hatfield
We've got
00:58:37
Kristian
I originally do have the original Met Office files. They say it's a clear night. The accounts say it's raining, maybe even hailing. But the official accounts say it's a clear night, despite the fact that they do say it was this bizarre lightning event.
00:58:51
Lee Hatfield
So putting in your hand on your heart. What is, yeah after having all that information, what do you think it was?
00:59:01
Kristian
I believe it's a plane. I think it's it's a Harrier where i something clearly, maybe a jock pilot, came out of a loop too early, didn't realise how low he was.
00:59:12
Kristian
Oh shit, i'm go to pull the I've got to pull the bike back up. And of course that that heavy heat blast that's going out underneath then scorches the top of these buildings and basically clips... the the chimney on Abbey Road, then clips the house again, and it has its crash, comes up and takes off again. But it has all the hallmarks of a classic ufology case, including men in black, Russians who turn up at houses.
00:59:35
Kristian
What's really interesting is that for the longest time, I've thought but's a Do you know that there's a particular guy called Henry X, Henry Armand-Victorian, a character in British ufology from around like the nineteen eighty s In fact, if you pick up most magazines, you'll find in the in the letters section, Henry X is, or Armand-Victorian is a prominent writer.
00:59:47
Lee Hatfield
Can't it.
00:59:59
Kristian
he He became famous because he put in more subject-to-access requests to the government than anyone else, like the Freedom of Information requests. because he was after Pacific Files about ufology.
01:00:11
Kristian
Anthony James has his view and his stories and encounters with that chap. Well, he was Armenian, which sounds Russian. He lived in Nottingham around that time.
01:00:21
Kristian
So I think the Russians who turned up his house was him and two other chaps.
01:00:27
Lee Hatfield
interesting but the thing is though yeah if a pilot was screwing around in an aircraft lost control and it crashed all the military would have to say was this aircraft had a male function and crack it just a normal so why didn't they why did they say it was a weather event
01:00:46
Kristian
Yeah. god
01:00:51
Kristian
I don't know.
01:00:53
Lee Hatfield
But that's not the only part of the story, because what happened eight, seven years before that
The Hollingwell Incident: Collapse and Controversy
01:01:01
Lee Hatfield
across...
01:01:01
Kristian
So what happens? So there is an event that happened seven years before in July, 1980 in the the literal opposite diagonal corner of this field. So where the, uh,
01:01:14
Kristian
tried to just If I was to describe, if you can imagine a crosshatch, so one major road with a another intersectional crossroad. So the housing estate where this guy got his house hit is in the bottom left corner, and the field in the top right corner was a another field.
01:01:35
Kristian
That's where the Churk then landed with these ered gazelles and lynxes and stuff. They all landed in this particular field. That location is famous for the Hollingwell Incident. So the Hollywood incident is a case where 358 children, potentially two dogs, two horses, and a number of adults collapsed over the course of a day.
01:01:59
Kristian
It's unfortunate because at the time it was described as happening instantaneously. It's sometimes known as fall down field. I participated in a documentary with Andy Whittaker for BBC Sounds and I have a presentation using the original documents from the time online. If you look for the Hollowell incident at Curious World Spatial, you'll find that where i literally actually go through the paperwork of what the reports were at the time.
01:02:24
Kristian
So why what was happening there, it was filled with two events happening, which is not described very well in the press at the time, but all the major newspapers covered this for a number of weeks afterwards.
01:02:39
Kristian
The... The children were attending what's called a jazzy band event. So for those who don't know, in the mining industry, because the all this particular area is very much mining towns in this area, part of their social requirements were it was to have other events happen. And these jazzy bands were kind of like marching events. If you were in the US, you kind of have these marching bands.
01:03:05
Kristian
playing like recorders, tubiers, dancing, having kind of military drills, kind of throwing batons up in the air. and And that's what was happening as a kind of a an annual festival of those jazzy bands all coming into one place here in in Kirkby.
01:03:26
Kristian
Unfortunately, no water and no refreshments were supplied to these children or these people, the families. But these they had actually bussed in people from all over. They were wearing these tight-fitting clothes, had these hats on that were made of fur, really kind of large, heavy hats that were kind of being paraded in military style.
01:03:46
Kristian
So they were under a lot duress, a lot of stress. And it was first thought that had these children how these children had poison.
01:03:58
Kristian
That was the first kind of thought. There was a call from the people there who were organizing the event. They had said, don't drink the water, it's poisoned, over a megaphone.
01:04:09
Kristian
little bit later, the same calls going out is that, oh, the ice cream van has poisoned people. Because these people were collapsing. So don't eat any the ice cream. And apparently that particular ice cream man suffered you know but a lot of stress after that.
01:04:26
Kristian
The... yeah
01:04:28
Kristian
So the ambulances over the course of the day were taking people. So they took too long to respond. People were getting the cars together, gathering the children, taking them to Queen's Medical Centre, taking them to Kingsmill Hospital.
01:04:44
Kristian
And I think over the course of the day, I think it's 358 or children have basically had this suspected incident for what happened to them.
01:04:54
Kristian
It was not ever decided what actually happened to them. And as such, it's still kind of considered to be a paranormal event. What is intriguing, though, is that at the time, they...
01:05:06
Kristian
The local, the government, along with the Queen's Medical Centre, they had a number of their representatives decide what the other what could be the possible causes of this.
01:05:17
Kristian
And one of the fears was, I think number nine, that they they they listed nine causes what potentially could cause this. One of which was, is the water source poisoned? Is the was there contaminated food?
01:05:29
Kristian
There was a particular smell of bleach, a chemical smell in the atmosphere that actually turned out to be J's fluid, like a bleach being used the toilets.
01:05:42
Kristian
to To say that there was not hundreds of people turned a few thousand people turned up to this event, but fortunately there was only eight Port-a-Loo's. So the over-application of Jay's fluid for the bleach was in the toilets, by the way.
01:05:58
Kristian
the What were the other reasons... One was there was nuclear waste buried nearby, maybe. This was the 1980s. There was a big fear about that, of course. One was, was it a UFO?
01:06:08
Kristian
m One was, is it... Was it ultra... Sorry, is it... VHF radio waves? Was that the cause of this thing? So you can imagine the kind of conspiracy theories that happened.
01:06:20
Kristian
In the newspaper, the daily so everything from the Star to the Guardian, the Independent, the Mirror, the Sun, they were all running on stories. 400 kids, you know, pass out. there was And the kind of first blame was landed at the hands of the organizers. Then it kind of became it's the it's the farmer's fault. They checked the field for everything from poisons to, what was it? So when when they when the dust crops, as when they dust grass, the fertilizer.
01:06:50
Lee Hatfield
Insecticide. Yeah.
01:06:52
Kristian
That's right. That's it.
01:06:52
Lee Hatfield
els
01:06:53
Kristian
So that was kind of where they were looking for these things. sort of these nine reasons, that's how they kind of came to the decision. What they what could they rule out? So they managed to rule out the UFO pretty early.
01:07:04
Kristian
Apparently a UFO crashed on this field a couple of years before. Separate, entirely separate to the one from 1987 and entirely separate to this this kid's falling out. Apparently a UFO crashed on this field.
01:07:18
Kristian
The VHF radio waves is a really interesting one because, of course, we kind of live in an age now where we think the 5G and the 6G communications network might be causing damage to our heads or whatever. They had the same fears back then with with UVF being used, so VHF being used with very high frequency radio waves. Then was that causing these children to collapse?
01:07:39
Kristian
It turns out this there is a mass a radio mast on this particular field, but it was only used by the RAC as a relay to to their vehicles out in the field. But so that fear was allayed. One is that there was underground bunkers there that contained stored nuclear waste and they had leaked into the environment and the people were getting poisoned.
01:08:00
Kristian
Former train, former underground train railways, basically, that they want to be used for nuclear waste. That was a big fear at that time. Of course, that was discounted out of hand. And so they discounted these nine reasons.
01:08:11
Kristian
And then yeah they they attended mass press briefings. There was a a lot of news coverage. they then that Nine reasons then went up to 15. They found a few of the thoughts of what it could have been.
01:08:23
Kristian
And again, all of them were dismissed. and but It could not have been this. It could not have been this. And they were left with a decision that says, well, the only thing that happened to these children is mass hysteria.
01:08:37
Kristian
They only passed out because they saw each other passing out, and they then also decided to pass out. And that actually is where the story is left. It is left as a story of mass hysteria. And in fact, Bob Rinker from 14 Times then went on to write a book about mass hysteria cases.
01:08:57
Kristian
And of course, this was prompted by the fact that he the all that he went through all the newspaper archives and columns and clipped out all the news stories about this and gathered them all together. So he he became that the go-to guy for all this particular story.
01:09:13
Kristian
Bob Rickard, sorry. so what So what did happen here? It was and wasn't until 2012 that but one of the chemicals that was used on a field adjacent to that used something called Tridomorph. Tridomorph is a chemical a compound in 1980 that was absolutely fine and not a poison to use, but it was found out later to be a kind of... a fertilizer chemical that did cause those kind of problems. Red itchings around the eyes, you know, a constricting of the throat, a drying of the mouth.
01:09:48
Kristian
And that was mostly compounded by the fact that these children are wearing tight clothes. They got stress going on. They're already wearing these heavy hats. There's no...
01:09:58
Kristian
There's no bottled water available. What there is is a pipe, a hose pipe on the local farm that was basically just taken down to this particular area where they were at. It's mixed up also with the story is that on the same field at the same time.
01:10:11
Kristian
There's a kind of a traveler's fair that's happening at the bottom of the field where they're bringing their horses and they're bringing their community together. And so it's often said that there's one fate that's happened in one event. There's actually two. that They probably are connected, but so there are two separate events that appear to be coalescing at the same time.
01:10:30
Kristian
And it it was said, I believe it's in the Guardian news reports, that there was two dogs that were taken ill and a horse that was taken ill. They were proven to not be the case in the in the final reports that were in Ashfield's District Council report. They were concocted by the newspaper.
01:10:49
Kristian
was That could have been the mirror, actually, but I'm sure it was the Guardian, but it could have been the mirror. the yeah that But in the in the hospital reports, it does say that they were all suffering from dehydration. They were all suffering for with red eyes, itchiness, irritation, but everyone was let go.
01:11:07
Kristian
Only a few stayed overnight. There was two newborn babies that were... i'm taken to hospital, but they were precautionary aspects. And there was a police officer, a police lady, actually, she was taken in.
01:11:18
Kristian
Again, it was a precautionary notice because she also had inhaled and her throat felt like it was was gripping, was tight to breathe. So with this documentary... i' Sorry, it wasn't a documentary. It was a report by Nottingham Trent University, sorry, in 2012. In 2015, there's a documentary made about it. No, sorry, 2003. My apologies.
01:11:40
Kristian
So 2003, this documentary is made covering the fall down field event, and they you highlight the fact that this tridomorph... would have been the basis of this. That at that time in 1980 wasn't considered to be a poison, but was later considered to be much later on.
01:11:56
Kristian
And that's when, and Andy got in contact with me around 2021 from the BBC and we did that documentary together.
01:12:02
Lee Hatfield
So it's interesting that you have to start off with the. Two strange incidents have happened in close proximity.
01:12:13
Kristian
Literally, across the road, literally.
01:12:16
Lee Hatfield
And there's unconfirmed stories or accusations, if you want, about what's happened for both locations, but seven years apart.
01:12:26
Kristian
Yes.
01:12:31
Lee Hatfield
So with regard to the Hollingwell incident, was it mostly children or was there, apart from the police officer that you mentioned, how many adults were also affected?
01:12:46
Kristian
And then I can, if you give me a second, I'll actually, I've got the PDF right here. So, story, so, I went to the o to the government and the the records archive and they said they didn't have any records of this event in there anymore.
01:13:01
Kristian
I went to Ashfield Library and I found they do have a listing in there. And I had to get a Freedom of Information request put in. But then just, the next day, just turned up at the library, picked it up.
01:13:12
Kristian
You can have this, it's fine. You can you can read this if you like. But turns out it's actually the only copy. So I scanned it in and made sure I took a photo. Copy this. So if you bear with me, I can tell you exactly. Yeah.
01:13:24
Kristian
i've got that right here. Ambulances conveyed 65 people to hospital themselves. So, okay, here we are. So, the environmental officers were informed that 255 patients were recorded at being at the hospitals, and but it is estimated there were 400 people were seen at various hospitals.
01:13:45
Kristian
The officers visited 224 the recorded details. 193 of the 224 seen were children.
01:13:55
Kristian
37 children had no symptoms. Some bands were hardly affected. Of the patients seen by environmental health officers, 37 were male, female. of the females were aged 11 to 15. The major complaint was nausea, stomach, and head pains.
01:14:11
Kristian
The various people maintain that policemen and fire crew were admitted to hospital. It has also said that horses and dogs were affected and had to be put down. We can absolutely clarify that only one woman, one policewoman did go to hospital at the time of the incident and her condition was no way associated with this.
01:14:29
Kristian
She was taken for medical purposes. Two babies were admitted hospital because they were premature and only a few weeks old. There is no source of complaint about horses or dogs being put down.
01:14:42
Kristian
So it was really interesting because these documents actually go they they gather quite a few expert panels. So here here's the nine that i was talking about earlier. So on the Sunday, the 13th of July, they was ruled out as being it could have been poisoning.
01:14:57
Kristian
There was a fire and not far from here, water supply, pesticide spray, temporary toilets and ultra high frequency radio waves.
01:15:07
Kristian
And yes, there's the numerous other theories have been advanced from the press and the public ranging from a low frequency noise transmission to an extraterrestrial visitation. These have been these said these have been considered but are found to be without substance.
01:15:22
Lee Hatfield
No
01:15:26
Kristian
Yes, so that it it's a herbicide at the end of it is what they claim to be the problem.
01:15:26
Lee Hatfield
shit.
01:15:31
Lee Hatfield
But it's funny how when you get all these people that are affected that yeah you say that over a thousand of them were there. if there was if it was a water source or contaminated food, at these events, everybody has ice cream, everybody drinks water.
01:15:53
Lee Hatfield
Back in the day, like you said, bottled water wasn't a a more common thing like it is now.
01:15:53
Kristian
Yeah.
01:15:59
Lee Hatfield
So it makes you wonder why more people were not affected if it was a contamination within the water or a food source.
01:16:08
Kristian
So in the in this section here, it talks about the the possibility of heat ex exhaustion a heat exhaustion. Children wore tight-footing uniforms and tight-fitting, unventilated headgear. Some of the children wore heavy sashes covered in medallions, showing success from previous events.
01:16:22
Kristian
The organizers have stated they expected a portion of the children to faint at such events. It must be considered, but despite the misperception of the press, that not all the children collapsed at the same time altogether.
01:16:35
Kristian
The children were collapsing of five to six at a time over the course of three hours. In all ambulances took 65 people to hospital, whom of all recovered very quickly. Now, in the latter stages of this report is where it gets really interesting. And it actually, it's where Bob Rickard takes his inspiration to write his book. So it turns out there was actually two other accounts from around the same period where this same thing happened.
01:17:03
Kristian
So there was one in Newcastle. and actually I'm actually looking at that, just bringing up now, actually, where the same kind of thing occurred.
01:17:12
Kristian
There's some of the headlines here from the press at the time. Daily Star says, Row over Chaos Carnival cover-up. The Mansfield chared children collapse blamed on judges. The Guardian children's collapse cover-up claim.
01:17:24
Kristian
Even post-mysterious illness, more new victims come forward. Sheffield Telegraph says, Jazzy bands ready to march again as new mystery illness strikes them dead. Or strikes them down, sorry. So...
Mass Hysteria vs. Poisoning: An Ongoing Debate
01:17:37
Kristian
so Added to this in the appendix of this report is two reports from The Lancet, actually, from October 27th, 1973, as a breakout of abdominal pain, also by mass hysteria.
01:17:54
Kristian
And this is how they build their conclusion. So this report says, a children's gala from 1972, 130 visitors, mainly girls belonging to juvenile gas jazz bands, developed a spontaneous illness leading to gastric pain.
01:18:10
Kristian
Local children, when only affected the symptoms were not serious and were only momentarily brief in duration. No physical thought, no physical course for the symptoms has a bit yet been discovered. And the reasons given are thinking this episode is mainly a hysterical reaction.
01:18:28
Kristian
So this was the basis. there was There was that particular one there in Northumberland and the other ones in Newcastle. it said It talks about a gala, has 400 band members, 300 supporters, many adults, 300 local children, 200 local adults.
01:18:40
Kristian
I see members and have about 80 members in. And they again, they collapsed. in much the same way as's happened it here. So it's decided that when someone sees a person collapse on the floor, it might be that it develops a kind of contagion that then then also happens to them as well.
01:19:00
Kristian
So I understand the reason why the government's decision to say, actually, well, we've exhausted all of the possible options of what it might be. And then they decided that it was down to mass hysteria. But this one here from Northumberland says,
01:19:15
Kristian
A 16-year-old girl playing the bass drums collapsed within a few minutes. Five to six other girls in the band then became ill, complained of dizziness. Abdominal pain fell to the ground and passed out. In a short time, a large number of other children appeared to then also be ill, clutching their abdomens and crying.
01:19:30
Kristian
It was thought that the children may well have been poisoned. Over the course of the next two hours, 160 children of four adults were also taken with the same symptoms. But then when given water or when they were just roused up, they woke up as if there nothing happened to them.
Mass Hysteria, UFOs, and Folklore Connections
01:19:45
Kristian
Absolutely remarkable.
01:19:48
Lee Hatfield
It is, and it's a little bit ridiculous to come out with that result, bearing in mind that if that was the case, why were these events not happening all over the country and all over the world at other events?
01:20:02
Kristian
Well, they do. That's the thing. They do. but People do have spontaneous, collapsing, fainting events that appear to be contagious.
01:20:13
Lee Hatfield
Well, my 13 years in the military, sorry, in the ambulance service, I don't think I've ever known of other people. Yeah. Okay. If you're a little bit squeamish, then fair enough. But but the jury's still out on that one, as far as I'm concerned.
01:20:32
Kristian
and Well, I'll send you over. so I've got the original government report, so I'll send it over to you. It's actually worth a read because of because it is.
01:20:39
Lee Hatfield
Cool.
01:20:41
Kristian
1980s, very medical in terms of it's how it's approaching it. So it's it's definitely worth a read.
01:20:47
Lee Hatfield
So would I be right in thinking that out of all the different paranormal subjects that there are out there, that the UFO world would probably be your most favorite?
01:21:02
Kristian
It is because I think what is the UAP UFO topic of what we describe to be poltergeist and what we are experiencing in terms of time dilation, in terms of kind of high strangeness, may well be one in the same phenomena happening. But we've described it over time to be different things.
01:21:25
Kristian
And I think this is the case, if you look back at, say, even in the folklore, stories of little green characters are quite ubiquitous. You have characters who appear, but when you get close to them, they appear to have odd descriptions, strange places where they go to strange places, and then are returned.
01:21:44
Kristian
Time situations where missing time occurs, they appear to wake up, having gone to Fairyland or having gone to an underworld and come back. So it makes me wonder whether the ufology case is much older than we first think it is. Most people think the modern era of ufology is from 1947 onwards.
01:22:04
Kristian
i've Even Kenneth Arnold's encounter, you know he didn't have just one or two encounters. He also was investigating the other encounters at the same time. To say what...
01:22:15
Kristian
If we think the modern era but probably ended with the the disclosure in 2017, think we we can say that we are in the disclosure era or the disclosing era currently. a we have But I think the cases for abduction phenomena is probably much older than we think it is due to the crossover with folklore. You can look at those cases and go, if I take my lens off, I can see this being this as well because it has the same attributes.
01:22:47
Kristian
And the same with poltergeist phenomena too. There's you know strange occurrences the house, things moving around with no one really knowing they are. People who have close encounter UAP experiences also highlight that's the kind of thing that happens.
01:23:01
Kristian
So I do think they may well be one in the same phenomena that hasn't quite been described as yet very well. spending
01:23:08
Lee Hatfield
there's a lot There's a lot of stuff out there that we don't know the answer to, that's for sure.
01:23:14
Kristian
These days, I'm more inclined to believe it might not necessarily be off-world. I think they might well already be here monitoring us on a regular basis. Haven't really gone anywhere. and we We may well be an experiment of some kind. i don't know. Or just they are watching us to see what we do with our technology.
01:23:31
Kristian
Or they have an interest in what we do and how we're going about doing it. We may well be in some kind of weird zoo.
01:23:35
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:23:37
Kristian
Who knows?
01:23:38
Lee Hatfield
because I was
Future Tech and Its Impact on Humanity
01:23:40
Lee Hatfield
intrigued to, I can't remember if I was told it read but the fact that people say that the reason why Aliens and UFOs have not communicate with us is simply because our technology is.
01:23:59
Lee Hatfield
So antiquated compared to their technology that that our stuff can't communicate with them because we're like dinosaurs in cavemen in comparison to their technology.
01:24:12
Kristian
Yeah, I was a mean, fact that we can't talk to ants, we can't even talk to a dolphin, we can't talk to a dog yet, you know, but there's clearly some simple communication can happen, but not in terms of a complete rapport-based conversation.
01:24:25
Kristian
I think when those things happen, we might... How do we talk to something that might potentially be so far ahead of us, technological-wise, if we can't talk to a species who's equally as intelligent as us?
01:24:35
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
01:24:35
Kristian
I mean, maybe if we if we get to that point, that might well happen. And if you if you listen to some of the abduction reports or those who have encounters or very, very close encounters, they talk about that.
01:24:49
Kristian
That's the case. so That's the reason they don't talk to us because we're not quite, we're not there yet. We should live in love and harmony, build each other as a community going forward. Maybe we can get to a certain point where we eventually have technology that does that.
01:25:01
Kristian
It is interesting, though, that a lot of our technology appears to be converging towards that kind of case where it looks like we're going towards synthetic telepathy.
01:25:12
Kristian
The idea that we can have computers on us or or that can be utilised in a way that communicates at very, very high speeds, that we instantly understand what another person is seeing in front of us, we could see what they see, or we perhaps could have initially simple thoughts transferred between us, you know, via technology.
01:25:31
Kristian
that That technology doesn't seem to be too far away if it hasn't already happened. And I think as that refines resolution-wise, as Neuralink and other similar similar technologies expand, we might find ourselves having a symbiotic relationship with technology.
01:25:46
Kristian
I mean, think of it, most of us can't leave our phones alone, myself included. We are constantly connected with news, but we can only process as fast as our fingers can do. If that was in our head or i some kind of eyeglass, maybe, you would have instantaneous communication at all times.
01:26:02
Kristian
And that appears to be how these beings talk and communicate with each other. It could be that they are synthetic. It could be that they are potentially technological as opposed to biological agents. That wouldn't surprise me.
01:26:17
Lee Hatfield
I think you're absolutely right in what what you're saying. Just for the record, my phone's here too.
01:26:25
Kristian
we are. it it just The phone is the right size to be on our package at all times. It has so much tech on board that can communicate in so many different ways that we perhaps don't use it to our fullest potential as it is.
01:26:37
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. And if you think about it, yeah if you go out for an evening and you leave your phone at home, you're like you've got your arm cut off because there's something missing.
01:26:48
Kristian
It does feel that, doesn't it?
01:26:49
Lee Hatfield
It does.
01:26:49
Kristian
It feels like you don't have a tool or a limb. you know if if you If you go out to the shops or whatever, you deliberately don't take your phone because it's charging.
01:26:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, exactly.
01:26:58
Kristian
You feel lost.
01:26:59
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, sort like.
01:27:00
Kristian
it's It's a strange feeling.
01:27:02
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, the the amount of times I've gone to the cafeteria at work and I've like, my phone's been charged, like you just said, and I'm waiting for a food to be ready. And I go, I've not got my phone.
01:27:12
Lee Hatfield
but And i normally I'll do that. I look at my phone and like, where is it? Oh, it's back in the office.
01:27:17
Kristian
oh What did we do before we had something to
Christian's Personal Goals and Podcast Success
01:27:20
Kristian
scroll on? you know when you look if you get a bus or a tram like I do in Nottingham, just like everyone's on their device just seeing what's happening in the news.
01:27:20
Lee Hatfield
Exactly. thanks
01:27:26
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Books and papers and things.
01:27:29
Kristian
Yeah.
01:27:30
Lee Hatfield
Christian.
01:27:30
Kristian
I said it.
01:27:32
Lee Hatfield
I'm going to cut it short because we've been an hour and a half.
01:27:37
Kristian
Good.
01:27:37
Lee Hatfield
Believe it or not, we've been we been here for an hour and a half, my friend. What's next for Christian Lander? What's on the agenda?
01:27:45
Kristian
So that there's a few things. There's a few personal goals I want to get. And I don't want to make them public. There's certainly there's certain things I want to do in 2026. I certainly want to get published in a certain magazine. And I certainly want to appear on a certain radio show. Consider them to be personal goals. coastto Coast to coast. I want to be able to say I've appeared on coast to coast. Consider it to be a personal goal. I guess going to be continuing with the ASAP thing for a while.
01:28:11
Kristian
So, Cirrus is Strange is going to go from strength to strength. I've discovered last month, you know, Spotify does that roundup that they do every year. Wrapped up, it turns out that Cirrus is Strange is in the top 15% of podcasts.
01:28:22
Lee Hatfield
That's awesome.
01:28:23
Kristian
That astounded me. In terms of or video podcasts, anyway. Most podcasts now have a video element. So, I was astounded to see we were in the top 15% of that.
01:28:33
Kristian
a So, the YouTube videos don't hit 200. Yet, audio, they hit thousands. So, entirely different audience, isn't it?
01:28:42
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, for sure. so And when are you going to publish your Lamp House porn book?
01:28:48
Kristian
I don't know if there's ever going to be a book.
Conclusion and Future Plans
01:28:50
Kristian
More of an got more of an ongoing Acts and Facebook series that will be all hashtagged with lamppost porn.
01:28:59
Lee Hatfield
Christian, it's been an absolute pleasure. You're one of those people that we could talk and talk and talk and talk, and then you find out that your podcast is five hours long. and like you And we haven't had but had a bathroom break, so we're both like crossing our legs and like, okay, I must stop in minute.
01:29:13
Kristian
It's not what it is.
01:29:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, exactly. But Christian, it's been an absolute pleasure. I'd love to have you on the back for another episode to talk about some other... random stuff.
01:29:24
Lee Hatfield
But for now, I'd like to thank you for your time.
01:29:27
Kristian
Cool.
01:29:27
Lee Hatfield
I know it's getting quite late in the UK, but thanks very much.
01:29:31
Kristian
Eight o'clock.
01:29:31
Lee Hatfield
And I look forward to talking to you again.
01:29:35
Kristian
Excellent. Excellent. Look forward to take care.
01:29:36
Lee Hatfield
Take care, my friend. Bye-bye.