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S2 E9 Bruce Brown - Bigfoot and Dogman Researcher
13 Plays7 days ago
This week i had the pleasure to speak with Bruce Brown, Bigfoot and Dogman researcher.
Bruce has been a patrolman, a deputy sheriff, and a Bigfoot and dogman researcher.
Bruce had his first Bigfoot experience when he was 8, when he noticed a family of what he thought were apes, and at the age of 12, when he threw a fish to a juvenile bigfoot
We then discuss the Patterson-Gimlin video, and the fact that the video is becoming more and more truthful
We finish off, by discussing if the Bigfoot was really discovered, would they get the government protection other creatures get.
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Transcript
Intro
Introduction to Bruce Brown and Cryptid Research
00:00:12
Lee Hatfield
Hello everybody and welcome to the latest episode of SIPA Paranormal Chronicles. Today i am delighted to have former law enforcement officer, I forgot your name, Bruce Brown, there we go.
00:00:25
Bruce Brown
I
00:00:27
Lee Hatfield
Bruce has been a patrolman, a deputy sheriff, sergeant, a detective, chief of narcotics, but the reason he's here, he's a Bigfoot and dogman researcher.
00:00:38
Lee Hatfield
Bruce, welcome.
00:00:41
Bruce Brown
appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
00:00:44
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, and let's not tell anybody about any technical issues that we've had over the last two days. Let's not mention it at all.
00:00:51
Bruce Brown
All right. All right.
00:00:53
Lee Hatfield
so So, Bruce, obviously, you've had a big career in law enforcement, but you're now retired. So how long have you been taking it easy for?
00:01:03
Bruce Brown
About 10 years now.
00:01:07
Bruce Brown
So I've been,
00:01:09
Lee Hatfield
carry on.
00:01:11
Bruce Brown
oh I went into, went into research pretty much full time after I got out of law enforcement.
00:01:20
Lee Hatfield
So how much were you able to do when you was actually in the job, though?
00:01:20
Bruce Brown
Oh,
00:01:25
Bruce Brown
I've done quite a bit in the job. Yes. Yes. I was able to, to do, oh Well, my shifts generally run 12 to 14 hour shifts. So I sometimes, especially when I was patrol, Sergeant of patrol, I got a lot of chances to go out in the middle of nowhere, work the midnight shift, they call it.
00:01:50
Bruce Brown
oh I come on at like three in the evening and most time done good to get off at six the next morning.
00:01:51
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:01:59
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, I Yeah, so okay.
00:02:00
Bruce Brown
So that put me, That put me to into a a lot of deep hollers and stuff to to do calls and stuff, even from my patrol cars.
00:02:11
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, so I've done both of the other two. I was a firefighter for 12 years and then a paramedic for 13. So you've done one side, I've covered the other two.
Childhood Encounters with Bigfoot
00:02:24
Bruce Brown
There you go.
00:02:25
Lee Hatfield
so
00:02:26
Lee Hatfield
So how did your interest in Bigfoot and Dogman all start?
00:02:34
Bruce Brown
though my, the interest in Bigfoot started when I was eight years old. That was been my first encounter. Uh, my, my father was in the service of military and, uh, on our summer vacations, we'd come back to Tennessee, to his home place with his mother's house, my grandmother's and stay.
00:02:58
Bruce Brown
And, uh, He had gotten me a kite and I had one out in the field behind my grandmother's house trying to get the kite to fly it. It wouldn't go up but a few feet and hit the ground.
00:03:11
Bruce Brown
Then I noticed three, what i I, keep in mind I was eight years old, what I considered apes because at that time we watched Wild Kingdom every Sunday.
00:03:23
Bruce Brown
and the To me it was apes. They stood at the edge of the field and watched me but didn't do anything other than watching what I was doing.
00:03:34
Bruce Brown
Well, I couldn't get my kite up. So I took it back into the house and tell my grandmother, I couldn't get my kite up. She said, well, you don't have a tail on it. So she took an old sheet and but cut it up and made me three lengths of tail and tied them together, tied them onto the kite.
00:03:51
Bruce Brown
And I was telling her I'd seen three apes out there in the field. And she said, well, we don't have apes here in Tennessee. Uh, you're seeing something else and i said no they were apes you know she said no until the only way you'd see a ape around here is go to knoxville or somewhere and go to the zoo and they might have one but as i left it at that more interested in my kite so i took my kite back out there this time they had gone in and i got made two or three attempts and i got my cotton there this time and they're going up well they come back out watching my kite
00:04:30
Bruce Brown
And that was my first encounter. They stayed out there a good, uh, to young kid, probably 10 or 15, 20 minutes. And then, I run out of kite strings. So I brought it back in and then, I went on back in the house and they were still out there. So
00:04:46
Lee Hatfield
So at what point did you kind of realize that they weren't apes, that they were actually something else?
00:04:54
Bruce Brown
that was when I was about 12 years old. Uh, We had gone fishing in the backwaters of the Cumberland River here in Tennessee.
00:05:07
Bruce Brown
And we were on one side of the slough, you could call it, or backwater. And it was me and my parents and my other siblings.
00:05:19
Bruce Brown
And seen some more walk out on the other side. And I was up further. back in the slough than my parents were. So I had a good vision on them.
00:05:32
Bruce Brown
Well, they had left. They'd stayed out there maybe two or three minutes and turned around and walked back into the cactails. And then there were a big set of woods behind that. And they went back into the woods. So I had walked around and to that side and was fishing.
00:05:50
Bruce Brown
And the little juvenile one, he was about my size, a little bit bigger. He walks out and comes down. oh fairly close to me. And he just standing, he's standing there watching me and I'm, I'm catching brim or bluegill.
00:06:07
Bruce Brown
And as I was catching them, I just pitch them down on the ground right behind me. And he kept watching, this juvenile kept watching me drop these fish on the ground. So I remember what my grandmother had told me about him.
00:06:25
Bruce Brown
about hairy men and other things. If you take something from nature, always leave something. Don't take more than you need. So just out of curiosity, being 12 years old, I just reached down and picked one of the brim up and underhand throwed it to him, which was probably about 15 to yards.
00:06:46
Bruce Brown
And it, it walked up to it and then just bent down like a human would and picked it up and then turned around and walked back to the cacti. And that was a, Last time I'd seen it.
00:06:58
Lee Hatfield
Wow. And it's it's weird how when people have these experiences, and I was talking to somebody last night about similar kind of thing, you and I are of a similar age.
00:07:13
Lee Hatfield
So back back when we were kids or young adults, if we had come home and told that kind of story, You would be absolutely poo-pooed.
00:07:25
Lee Hatfield
yeah You were misidentification. you didn't It wasn't what you thought it was, and nobody would believe you. But you come forward to the age that we're at now, and all or most stories are actually believed.
00:07:43
Lee Hatfield
And it's a big difference yeah a big shift in the understanding.
00:07:43
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:07:45
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:07:47
Lee Hatfield
And more people are prepared to listen and to understand sightings and yeah footprints and and that kind of thing. So it's actually quite fascinating to be alive right now because you can actually talk openly about it and people don't think you're crazy.
00:08:05
Bruce Brown
Right. Well, you've got you got to remember back and when me and you were kids, there were a lot of superstitions. So a lot of your older people, they wouldn't acknowledge and tell you exactly what you've seen.
00:08:18
Bruce Brown
They would just disagree with you and say you've got a big imagination. You know, they would roust you. But oh my grandmother took me to
Cherokee Legends of 'Hairy Men'
00:08:31
Bruce Brown
my great-grandmother. to We went there one weekend to check on her.
00:08:35
Bruce Brown
And she my great-grandmother called me in the house and sat me down the kitchen table there. And explained to me what I was seeing was called a hairy man. Because she was a Cherokee Indian.
00:08:45
Bruce Brown
So they knew them as hairy men. So see, you're not seeing an ape. We don't have apes here. You're seeing what we call a hairy man. So don't don't get around them and stuff because they will grab you and take off.
00:08:45
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:09:00
Bruce Brown
And that was... She believed me because when I explained to her, to to her, what they look like, she, she knew exactly what I was talking about.
00:09:12
Lee Hatfield
And I think that, again, let's go back to when we were kids. If your parents or grandparents didn't want you to go to a particular area, these stories would be told to keep you away from yeah a cliff edge or yeah a wild wild river, something like that, they would actually come out with these stories to keep you away from something that they didn't want you close to.
00:09:41
Lee Hatfield
So the fact that she was doing that, do you think that was kind of what she was saying or was she actually confiding in you to say there is something out there and in our in our culture, this is what it's called?
00:09:58
Bruce Brown
Right, that's what she was telling me because she, as was sitting there, she told me the story but behind the hairy man that her parents had encountered They had to the Cherokee had been on a hunt and brought some deer back in and it hung it up there in a camp.
00:10:20
Bruce Brown
And these hairy men come in of a nighttime and they left a couple of of the clan members out there to guard the meat and stuff.
00:10:31
Bruce Brown
And they come in and they killed a couple of em And she she told me the story that the next morning they put together the hunting party. And when after these hairy men and they got into a big fight several miles from there and were able to get some of the meat back and were able to kill a couple of them, but they lost another man in in that fight.
00:10:55
Bruce Brown
So they lost a total of three people.
00:10:58
Lee Hatfield
Now, for you to be, a obviously later on in your life, a law enforcement officer, for you to respond to an incident where like a group of people have gone into a forest too to get their meat back, and now three of them are dead, having a logical head on your shoulders, you wouldn't put it down to cryptids at all. You would think it would be human against human.
00:11:27
Lee Hatfield
Would I be right in thinking that?
00:11:29
Bruce Brown
Yeah, to an extent. You have to investigate it.
00:11:32
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:11:32
Bruce Brown
You have to look at the wounds on the body and then go from there. I mean, clearly, if it's cryptid, there's not going to be any gunshot wounds. There's going to be a lot of bites, a lot of tearing, maybe a leg missing, arm missing, and then you go from there.
00:11:50
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. And it's, yeah. And obviously both of us have seen quite excessive trauma in our careers. So we know what what a car crash causes.
00:12:02
Lee Hatfield
We know what a fall from height causes.
00:12:02
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:12:05
Lee Hatfield
And if you go into a wood, a forest, and you see somebody with limbs ripped off, you know that it's going to be some sort of wild animal attack.
00:12:17
Bruce Brown
Exactly.
00:12:18
Lee Hatfield
But then you have then you have to try to decipher to to what it is.
00:12:21
Bruce Brown
and Right. And then anybody that lived through it are now under investigation too.
00:12:28
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:12:29
Bruce Brown
because I have to keep those people separated to get their stories and to make sure that they some, not everybody's story is going to match perfectly, but they come together close enough to where I can rule them out.
00:12:42
Bruce Brown
It's not being, uh,
00:12:47
Bruce Brown
I have to be able to believe them, you know, and if they said whatever attacks him went a certain way, then I need, if there was three of them that survived, I need those three
00:12:49
Lee Hatfield
Yes, for sure. Yeah.
00:12:59
Bruce Brown
to give me a description of direction and their story on what happened and what led up to it.
00:13:07
Bruce Brown
And then from there, then of course you will collect evidence. And then from there you will track them.
00:13:13
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:13:13
Bruce Brown
I mean, you have, you have to go after them. You don't have any choice because, uh, they could get somebody else.
00:13:21
Lee Hatfield
And yeah if you put that into context, you've got a young, naive police officer who's being told to go into a wood and into and a forest to try and capture what has destroyed three men.
00:13:21
Bruce Brown
And,
00:13:42
Lee Hatfield
I'm sure that like yeah a young, that' be like it I'm sorry, you want me to do what?
00:13:47
Bruce Brown
Yeah, I would want him walking in front of me because he he'd be jumping.
00:13:49
Lee Hatfield
yeah
00:13:50
Bruce Brown
I wouldn't want him holding the gun behind me.
00:13:54
Lee Hatfield
that's it yeah yeah you you could you can be the bait you can
00:13:58
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:14:00
Lee Hatfield
so after your 12 year old incident with throwing the fish how did it progress through your life then of you wanting to investigate like bigfoot and
00:14:12
Bruce Brown
Well, after, you know, after, after that, incident there with the fish, I become curious about them. So I would use calls, jackrabbit, squirrel calls, different kinds of calls, uh, always looking in the woods for something just to out of the ordinary.
00:14:30
Bruce Brown
Uh, and then I started having more sightings and then, and then, uh, uh, I started to having people come to me, uh, with bear sightings, but they weren't any buried in that part of the country.
00:14:45
Bruce Brown
and then having me to investigate that. uh, uh, it went from there. I mean, it was, it was, uh, I've had so many Bigfoot encounters. I couldn't count them.
00:15:03
Lee Hatfield
Wow.
00:15:03
Bruce Brown
And that's, that's a lot. And, uh, uh, I just haven't, uh,
00:15:09
Lee Hatfield
So, and one thing that I find extremely infuriating is when you watch some of these TV shows and they've got evidence of something in the forest that is big and hairy and
00:15:26
Bruce Brown
Mm-hmm.
00:15:27
Lee Hatfield
It automatically thinks, so and my wife says it all the time, quick, set your camera to blurry. so they can't identify what it is because some of these cameras, like evidence, are so like terrible.
00:15:43
Lee Hatfield
It's all like, my God, what have you used to record this? Because it's not a modern-day phone. And it always seems to be blurry, yeah bad camera angles, and this there seems to be a lot, which makes me think that quite a few of these – and actually hoaxes rather than the true evidence that the true researchers investigators find.
00:16:07
Bruce Brown
Right. You're going to have your hoaxes out there, but big Bigfoot Sasquatch, the hairy man, whatever you people want to call him, has a frequency about him.
00:16:20
Bruce Brown
And he can hear frequencies off of you, meaning if you have ringing of the ears, tendonitis, stuff like that, he can pick up those frequencies. Now, when you raise a camera up and you and and you've got him out in the middle of a field and you take a shot and you've got a blurry picture you moved the camera to the left of him to the right of him and your pictures are perfect, but you can tell,
00:16:45
Bruce Brown
oh nine times out of a 10, an actual picture that somebody general finally took. And then the one that was faked, uh, you know, you can, you can look into the woods.
00:17:00
Bruce Brown
It's just like looking at the clouds. You look there long enough, you're going to see something, whether it's an elephant or whale, you know, but you have to,
00:17:04
Lee Hatfield
Exactly.
00:17:07
Lee Hatfield
Exactly.
00:17:08
Bruce Brown
uh, cameras, the wait the way, the way the cameras are set up nowadays, yeah, you can do a lot of fooling people. I have actually seen on some of these sites, actual real pictures that people were calling hoaxes and you're going like, well, I'm not going to throw my two cents worth in because, uh, they're not going to believe it. So somebody who actually took a picture where there was on a game camera, or whatever, uh,
00:17:37
Bruce Brown
thought they had the real thing and then it come out, everybody was calling it fake or AI. So they just take it down and don't say nothing else about it.
00:17:45
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. one One thing that I find really interesting, and I watched a show about it the other night, the Patterson-Gimlin video.
Analyzing the Patterson-Gimlin Film
00:17:55
Bruce Brown
Yes. Mm-hmm.
00:17:55
Lee Hatfield
This was taken in the 60s, and one of the actual presenters said, Yeah, people think it's a man in a suit. But now that they've been able to enhance the video and you've got muscle texture and yeah all that kind of stuff that to make it even more real, and then they came out with, if you think about it, the only...
00:18:25
Lee Hatfield
good evidence of a man in a suit was in the 1960s Planet of the Apes movie with Charles Heston. And that would take like but six to eight hours to get them in costume.
00:18:38
Lee Hatfield
And no amateur photographer is going to spend that amount of time to put to make this fake thing that is now, every time somebody analyzes it, they say it's more more genuine at each time they come out.
00:18:56
Bruce Brown
Right. Uh, planet of the apes, they, whoever made their suits could, didn't make it as good as the Gimlin Patterson film suit. So when you study it, you'll realize that the camera that they were using a film camera, not digital, a film camera, you can, you could, you couldn't fake it.
00:19:16
Bruce Brown
So the film that they got, and you can actually see the muscle texture, you can't, you can't do, you can't do that with that camera, kind of camera from back then you can.
00:19:17
Lee Hatfield
Thanks.
00:19:24
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:19:25
Bruce Brown
with cameras now, but not back then. And then you look at the, if somebody made this, the technology wasn't there to make that kind of suit. The planet of the apes, you know, when that was made, oh it wasn't as good as the Gimlin pitcher.
00:19:42
Lee Hatfield
No, absolutely. Yeah.
00:19:43
Bruce Brown
So clearly, you know, you've got a, you've got a, the muscle structure, you got the right hair texture, the right hair length on each part of the body. So, yeah. I have studied that picture many a times and there's, there's no duplicating it.
00:20:02
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, because I know that the that the show I was watching, apparently the the real film has gone missing and these guys actually were able to up en enhance copies to make it better than than the original was.
00:20:22
Lee Hatfield
And that's where they come out with, know, you've got the chest movement, you've got the muscle structure,
00:20:23
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:20:28
Bruce Brown
right
00:20:28
Lee Hatfield
And it's like, yeah, for anybody that wants to argue the fact you can't argue with muscle structure. yeah You can't yeah argue with how the body moves, especially back in the 60s when, like you say, the technology wasn't there.
00:20:46
Lee Hatfield
yeah It's a man in a suit. No, it wasn't.
00:20:50
Bruce Brown
right i mean there's no there's no way possible because it's uh
00:20:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:20:55
Bruce Brown
And then when you look at the the cameras they used back then, there's no way you could fake it with a camera like that. I mean, the you you could you could put somebody out there in a suit and blur the picture real good, but those type of cameras, when you zoomed in and zoomed out, they was all manual, so you got a good picture.
00:21:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:21:14
Bruce Brown
Where nowadays, these cameras ill automatically zoom in and out, and they pick up a lot of blur. Sometimes it can be oh what I call energy off of the Bigfoot Sometimes it could be something as simple as one little weed sticking up that causes the camera to focus on it instead of the Bigfoot.
00:21:34
Bruce Brown
And you run into a lot of that. and then you've got, again, you've got hoaxers out there that that have a good laugh. and their buddies have a good laugh while everybody talks talks about the picture they took.
00:21:46
Bruce Brown
and then
00:21:47
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. So.
00:21:49
Bruce Brown
But I'm not real big into pictures. I don't take a lot of pictures. I will take places where they have been. I won't take a picture of one when I come up on it.
00:22:02
Bruce Brown
oh You give too much away.
00:22:06
Bruce Brown
You give too much evidence away.
00:22:06
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:22:10
Lee Hatfield
And I was talking to an investigator almost a year ago now, and I asked him the question that if you could categorically prove the existence of cryptid, not just Bigfoot or Sasquatch or Dogman that we're going to be speaking about, if you could categorically prove the existence, how would you deal with it?
00:22:35
Lee Hatfield
And the answer that he gave me, which is like absolutely blew me out the water, I think it's an absolutely great answer. he he may provide the evidence but he would not provide the location because you and i both know in this day and age if you said i took these pictures and it's at this location every man with cameras with shotguns whatever would go and completely destroy the habitat so
00:23:06
Bruce Brown
Yes. Yes. And then you, and then you got to look at the fact that all these cameras now are GPS. So if you can get into somebody else's cell phone, which nowadays iPhones take the best pictures, there's no need of wagging in a $2,000 camera when you're falling in creeks and downhill sides and stuff and turn one up, you take your phone with you.
00:23:22
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:23:31
Bruce Brown
Uh, you, you get a good picture somebody who knows, uh, that it's not a fake, uh, they can look at that picture and tell, and then they'll get ahold of you and be your buddy and stuff.
00:23:45
Bruce Brown
And then then when they get your phone number, I mean, they hack, they hack your phone and they can get your GPS location exact spot where that picture was taken.
00:23:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:23:54
Bruce Brown
So that's the reason why I won't take pictures of them because if I have a lot of places that I go and hunt and I have a lot of people that call me with these problems. And then I explain,
00:24:05
Bruce Brown
go to them, explain to them. Sometimes they'll even go out with me and, and, and confront these creatures like the dog men. And, uh, one thing you don't want to do is give out on a location.
00:24:20
Bruce Brown
Uh, I have several places on what they call the warrior's path. It runs from Alabama straight through Tennessee into Kentucky. It's an ancient warrior's path, far dated back so far as 1500s and goes further than that.
00:24:37
Bruce Brown
Well, I have several places that I have permission to hunt thousands of acres for these Bigfoot dogmen. Well, if somebody pulls up there and I give out a location or they figure out a location from one of my pictures through my cell phone, then here you've got 20 people on this landowner's land trespassing. And when they get caught, they're going to say, Bruce Brown told me he gave me permission.
00:25:00
Bruce Brown
And then that knocks me out too.
00:25:03
Lee Hatfield
exactly yeah and i i love the fact that genuine investigators like are
00:25:04
Bruce Brown
See, and
Distinguishing Dogman from Werewolves
00:25:13
Lee Hatfield
extremely cautious about going know trespassing and know the location of where they where their sightings are and that brings more respect to those people rather than the you the
00:25:31
Lee Hatfield
people that go out for, as I call it, shits and giggles that just want to go just to experience it.
00:25:36
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:25:39
Lee Hatfield
yeah even Like if you're a ghost hunter, you've got investigators that want to find out what it really is. And then you've got the people that just want to go out and get scared at a weekend. And it's the same kind of thing with yeah with any other paranormal investigation, whether it be UFOs or cryptids or ghost spirits.
00:26:01
Lee Hatfield
So the fact that people actually respect the animal, respect the the location, respect the habitat, that brings a lot more kudos to those individuals rather than the other type of people that may make it and bring it down to a bad level.
00:26:22
Bruce Brown
Right, because you you know you hear so many people out here saying, well, you know, if I see a Bigfoot and I'm out in the woods like that or I know where one's at, I'm going to go kill it. Do you know what it would be worth? what kind of we And I'd say, well, you might think you can do that. I said, have you ever shot a deer and drug it out in the woods? I said, just imagine grabbing an 800-pound animal like a cow or a sow-squatch or something and think you're going to drag it out. And on top of it, you've got to think about A lot these Sasquatches is clans.
00:26:53
Bruce Brown
There's several members around. So you're not gonna get out with a Bigfoot when you kill it. oh You might have dog man if you had to the equipment to do it with, but you're not gonna do a Bigfoot like that.
00:27:07
Bruce Brown
in the
00:27:08
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, it's like it's like bringing a moose into yeah the size of a moose.
00:27:12
Bruce Brown
ry Right, right.
00:27:12
Lee Hatfield
is like Yeah. it's
00:27:14
Bruce Brown
You're not gonna drag it three miles out of the woods and then think you're gonna get out alive.
00:27:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:27:19
Bruce Brown
It's not gonna happen.
00:27:19
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. ahll I'd give it a go. I'll probably get like, don't know, sixteen six inches.
00:27:24
Bruce Brown
yeah
00:27:25
Lee Hatfield
So like, OK, I'm just going to leave it there.
00:27:25
Bruce Brown
yeah
00:27:28
Lee Hatfield
So we've mentioned the dogman a couple of times. Let's kind of flip subjects a little bit. so without sounding silly because the names in the title, what exactly is the dog man said to be?
00:27:45
Bruce Brown
Okay. The dog man is is a species of its own. A lot of people say it's a werewolf. Through my investigations, I have seen the werewolf side and I have seen the dog man side. So to me, there's two.
00:28:00
Bruce Brown
Okay. The werewolf side of it is it it looks more like a wolf and it stays down on four legs more than the dog man does. Okay.
00:28:12
Bruce Brown
The werewolf doesn't have the glowing eyes as the dog man does. Or in some cases, I had one that had laser eyes. Now, Some people call that supernatural.
00:28:25
Bruce Brown
Again, it could be a quantum physics or frequencies that's been able to master to have those red eyes that actually point out like lasers.
00:28:37
Bruce Brown
Uh, so the big, the big difference that there is, is that you've got what, uh, uh, the werewolf is more or less, uh, uh, I call a shape shifter can,
00:28:51
Bruce Brown
a certain night through the moon or whatever, you know, I have not run into any werewolves. All mine's been dog men, but I'm just going on, uh, and stuff. What they say, you know, if a man changes into a wolf in a full moon, stuff like that. I've not, I've not had that problem with a dog man.
00:29:11
Bruce Brown
So, uh, are they supernatural dog mans out there? Yes, there could be. I'm 70% there. I'm not a hundred percent. They're saying they're going, they're supernatural because I do believe in frequencies.
00:29:26
Bruce Brown
And if you can, if you could imagine having one standing 10 feet in front of you and nothing else around and you take a picture and when you're taking that picture, it vanishes in plain sight.
00:29:28
Lee Hatfield
sense.
00:29:42
Bruce Brown
It doesn't have time to go to the left or the right or run past you or backwards. So there is some aspects of it that you could call supernatural. But you again, oh being a former detective, I have to have some solid proof. I just can't have
00:30:02
Bruce Brown
one or two things I see out of the ordinary that there could be other reasons for that.
00:30:06
Lee Hatfield
And it's it's in yeah and it's interesting that you mention about like the supernatural aspect of it because there's becoming more and more stories, not just Dogman, but yeah Sasquatch and Bigfoot, that they are able to transport from one location to another for a' ease of words.
00:30:34
Lee Hatfield
So... I know that you've got the detective background and you want the evidence, but do you believe in that theory or do you just believe that, you know, it's kind of possible, but it's kind of not? So what's your aspect on the teleportation kind of?
00:30:56
Bruce Brown
I'm 70% there.
00:30:58
Lee Hatfield
Okay.
00:30:58
Bruce Brown
Okay.
00:30:59
Lee Hatfield
As you, yeah.
00:30:59
Bruce Brown
if you but If you're on the fence, if you're on the fence, I'm more towards the supernatural side, but I'm not all way there.
00:31:06
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:31:08
Lee Hatfield
And it's interesting interesting that you mentioned about her sound waves and so and such like, cause I was talking to a guy who were he believes that the sat the Sasquatch has got
00:31:24
Lee Hatfield
more ability to see the colors that we as humans can't see. So like yeah the orars and that kind of thing. And he believes that that's probably why a lot of the sightings that we see are very vague because they see us as bright in colour with a different aura way, way, way before we even get anywhere close to them.
00:31:55
Lee Hatfield
So have you actually heard about that kind of theory?
00:31:58
Bruce Brown
Yes, yes, I've investigated that theory. And yes, that that that is very well going on. oh There's another aspect of that too that umt that I haven't run into any other researchers.
00:32:15
Bruce Brown
It's called a seer stone. It's a piece of quartz rock. I had an individual that was having Bigfoot come to his house But when he'd hide in the house, it would always come around to that side of the house to where he was hid on on the outside wall.
00:32:32
Bruce Brown
He couldn't figure that out. And so he had me to come up there and I noticed he had a quartz rock on his porch. I said, where did you get that quartz rock at? And he said, they're all over the property. I'll just pick them up and bring them here.
00:32:46
Bruce Brown
said, you want you might want to take these quartz rocks and get them away from the house because he's using that as a seer stone. Quartz produces energy. he's able through food frequency to use that rock because it's not setting where you had said it because there's a mark over here on the porch where the rocks been setting. You can see the moisture where it'd been sitting.
00:33:10
Bruce Brown
Then it's over here now. So did you move it? No, I didn't move it. You're right. It was over there. So I said, he picks that up and can look into that as he goes around the house and he can see exactly where you're at in the,
00:33:25
Bruce Brown
So you have the quartz is a seer stone.
00:33:26
Lee Hatfield
Interesting.
00:33:30
Bruce Brown
You will see them sometimes with these Sasquatches with something in their hand. And a lot of times it will be a quartz rock. So quartz is energy.
00:33:41
Lee Hatfield
Interesting. Yeah. Yeah. so If we flick back to Sasquatch, Bigfoot, yeah in Europe, the Yeti and stuff like that, most of the sightings are in mountainous, forested areas.
Patterns of Dogman and Bigfoot Sightings
00:34:01
Lee Hatfield
But where are dogmen usually sighted?
00:34:07
Bruce Brown
Dogmen are going to be sight sighted in about the same areas as Sasquatch are. As like here in Tennessee, we've had a big influx in the last three or four years of people coming from California, New York, Florida and places.
00:34:21
Bruce Brown
A lot these farms, these huge farms are getting broken up and sold off into subdivisions. So you're cutting down the territory of a lot of these cryptids.
00:34:32
Bruce Brown
to where now they're in a lot of what you'd call your parks, national parks, national forest, or the few holdouts that people that still got several thousands acres of land.
00:34:44
Bruce Brown
And you're pushing them into them areas. And the dog man is more of a, he's more aggressive to to an extent. Of course, the rogue Bigfoot is probably more dangerous than the dog man is, in my opinion.
00:35:02
Bruce Brown
rogue Bigfoot will not stop a dog man. He will stop. A rogue Bigfoot won't.
00:35:12
Bruce Brown
The clan Bigfoot, which is the family Bigfoot, the female is the one in charge. The males are not in charge. It's the female. She rules the whole clan.
00:35:24
Bruce Brown
The dog men, they don't like each other. each other Now, I have and have had a couple encounters where I've had at least four at a time, but that's very, very uncommon. Most of the time when you encounter a dogman, you encounter one.
00:35:38
Bruce Brown
oh If you're in these remote areas and deep pilers and stuff and where these caves and stuff are, it's not uncommon to come across a friendlier group of Bigfoot with their clans.
00:35:52
Bruce Brown
there It's a family of Bigfoot. Now the rogue Bigfoot is a young male that's got pushed out of the Klan and he's just, for lack of better words, he's just pissed.
00:35:54
Lee Hatfield
Right.
00:36:04
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:36:05
Bruce Brown
You know, so he's, you cross his territory, he's after you, and you know.
00:36:13
Lee Hatfield
That's why I don't go into forests.
00:36:15
Bruce Brown
yeah
00:36:17
Lee Hatfield
but I'm a town boy, here okay? i i but yeah Not cities, I'm a town boy. So I'm like, oh yeah, the forest is over there and I'm staying here.
00:36:27
Bruce Brown
yeah
00:36:28
Lee Hatfield
So when people describe the dogman, how is it typically described and
00:36:39
Lee Hatfield
Do a lot of the descriptions like stay the same or do some people go, okay, bipedal, walking on all fours, tall, large?
00:36:49
Lee Hatfield
what What are the general characteristics of the description?
00:36:53
Bruce Brown
They come in all shapes and forms. Some of them's got long snouts. Some of them's got short snouts. Some of them's got ears as long as cattle. Some of them's got short ears. Some them's got long tails. Some them's got short tails.
00:37:09
Bruce Brown
Some of them is is extremely long hair. I've run across one that was hairless. He had no hair on him. They all have the canine form.
00:37:22
Bruce Brown
Some of them will run on four legs. And at the same time, jump up and start running on two. So you never really get uh, uh,
00:37:34
Bruce Brown
there, I guess you could say they're, they're, they're, they're makeup is more wolf-like canine like, uh, but that's basically about all you could say because they do come in different size shapes, different snouts, uh, different tails, different size ears.
00:37:53
Lee Hatfield
Is there any kind of intelligence? Because when people talk about Bigfoot and Sasquatch, they say that ye there's been traps made by the cryptid to either capture or deter humans.
00:38:10
Lee Hatfield
So is there any intelligence like that with Dogman?
00:38:15
Bruce Brown
Yes, yes, yes. oh If you, let's say you're going deer hunting and you stop or you eat breakfast that morning before you leave the house and you get in your vehicle and you drive to your deer hunting spot and you get out, you use your scent blocker and stuff on you, but then you walk to through to your tree you go up in your tree stand.
00:38:40
Bruce Brown
All this is uncommon. This is this is not wood scents. So from a half a mile away, a mile away, these cryptids know this. I mean, if they knew what what a sausage was, for breakfast sausage, you know, they they were touch is that but they know the scent is wrong and they know what you've sprayed on you.
00:39:03
Bruce Brown
Going in there, you're talking about him an animal that has probably 10,000 better sensory than a human does. So you're not going to fool them.
00:39:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah, it's funny that you say that because one of the things that I tell a lot of people as a joke is if you go to a haunted location on a Friday, on a Saturday, and you get all the ghosts going,
00:39:30
Lee Hatfield
Oh, my God, it's them people again. yeah You can imagine the same kind of thing happening in a forest. Somebody splays scent deterrent and all the cryptids are going, oh, my God, this guy is such an amateur.
00:39:36
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:39:44
Lee Hatfield
He's got no idea. And you can just imagine it happening.
00:39:49
Bruce Brown
Right. Now, if you go into the woods and you just act normal, don't worry about anything. Just taking your time, looking and around. You've got a better chance of an encounter when you start slipping around.
00:40:01
Bruce Brown
start using scents to cover yourself with, start hiding and doing things like that. You're just going to cut your encounters way down. Sometimes I will take a a chainsaw with me and take the blade and the chain off of it and crank it up and run it for 10 minutes and then cut it off and then go down in the woods and deep haulers and stuff and then have encounters.
00:40:28
Bruce Brown
It's stuff they're used to. Anything that they sense that they're not used to or people doing things that that they're not used to, they pick up on instantly.
00:40:40
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. the if you talk about Bigfoot and Sasquatch, there's been, you know, obviously we've mentioned the Patterson Gimlin movie film, but you've got years or decades and decades of of stories.
00:40:59
Lee Hatfield
The Dogman seems to be a much more recent story. discovery so to speak what would you say has been the timeline for the dogman
00:41:10
Bruce Brown
Oh, the dog man goes back as ancient as a Sasquatch. The native Indians considered them among oh a type of dog.
00:41:22
Bruce Brown
when When the Europeans come here and settled, they considered them lions because they had the heavy manes. So there's been dog man sightings that go back for hundreds of years, but people called them back then superstitially, especially in the Appalachian mountains where I'm from, the older people call them lines and they won't talk about it for three days. And they, and they have to know you, you have to be a family member because they say, when you see one of these things and you talk about it, somebody in the family is going to get deathly sick or die.
00:41:58
Bruce Brown
but they've always called them lions, even though they're not. But that's a to them, that was an omen. you know So the third day after one o'clock, they could tell you.
00:42:14
Bruce Brown
So that goes back many, many years.
00:42:18
Lee Hatfield
Right. How much do you think, and i'm I know you've got some Indigenous background, but I don't i don't want to offend you if if I use the incorrect word, but how much do you think Indigenous folklore has affected what we know as cryptids today?
Impact of Indigenous Folklore on Cryptid Perceptions
00:42:38
Bruce Brown
Has been a good way or bad way?
00:42:42
Lee Hatfield
Well, yeah, both. yeah Because it's like there's a lot of Indigenous indigenous like stories about skinwalkers and shapeshifters and such like that.
00:42:44
Bruce Brown
Well,
00:42:54
Lee Hatfield
But how much of that folklore as been as cut has come out into the open due to what we know today with regard to Bigfoot, Sasquatch and Dogman?
00:43:08
Bruce Brown
There's a lot of it that's come out, a lot of it. lot of people didn't talk about it. There's your your tribes that pass down from generation to generation on the stories.
00:43:22
Bruce Brown
And these stories that they tell on this, they they they strictly stick to the truth of the story. They won't add anything to it, and they won't subtract anything to it.
00:43:34
Bruce Brown
So when you get on these reservations now and you talk you talk to these people that's actually been passed these stories down,
00:43:42
Bruce Brown
it's it's right on the money. I mean, they can tell you oh some things and and and when you go out investigate it and look into it for yourself. Of course, you know, detectives just don't like to take everybody's word, you know.
00:43:57
Bruce Brown
We sit with our backs to the wall when we go to a restaurant and stuff, but yeah. oh
00:44:02
Lee Hatfield
hundrednder per cent
00:44:02
Bruce Brown
when we go, when we investigate, we're looking for consistencies. And consistencies is your evidence. And then you take that and you build more evidence.
00:44:17
Bruce Brown
So the pork, the pork, the pork lower from the tribes, the Native American tribes will come down, but as, as is, is mixed in,
00:44:29
Bruce Brown
Natives that marries white man, white woman, and so on. The stories can tend to get out of hand, but if you stick to the truth of it and go and talk to these people that are actually teaching the native way, then you can get your direct answers.
00:44:49
Bruce Brown
So yes, it it can, as any tale, it can get out of hand. It can be added to, you know, the, the,
00:44:59
Bruce Brown
A Sasquatch could have been, they'd come down there and killed one cow before it was over with.
00:45:00
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:45:04
Bruce Brown
It killed three and run the farmer off. You know, they're just added to instead of it just finding a dead cow there and the Sasquatch within 20 yards of it.
00:45:14
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. And that's the same kind of principle.
00:45:14
Bruce Brown
You know.
00:45:16
Lee Hatfield
You go into a fight and this big guy got put on the floor by a small kid. And then by the time you turned up, there was 12 of them and they all attacked him when in reality it was one.
00:45:25
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:45:27
Bruce Brown
One little dude. Yep.
00:45:29
Lee Hatfield
yeah So as a law enforcement officer, have you ever been in the scenario where you or one of your colleagues has seen something like a cryptid Bigfoot Sasquatch and then you try to explain it back at the base and you don't know how to explain it?
00:45:55
Bruce Brown
No, uh,
00:45:57
Bruce Brown
When we see them, we write the reports and and it goes from there. If the reports come up missing, they come up missing. Generally that that means the government or military's come in and got them.
00:46:08
Bruce Brown
This place is government.
Incident of Bigfoot and Military Intervention
00:46:10
Bruce Brown
well We had one that was hit, a Bigfoot that was hit with a car and knocked through a fence and both legs broke.
00:46:20
Bruce Brown
And the first officer on the scene there, and then I was the second, And then we had another officer that come. And because the guy thought he'd hit somebody.
00:46:31
Bruce Brown
And it wound up being a Bigfoot. But as we were doing our investigation into it. And of course we have to write incident. And accident reports.
00:46:45
Bruce Brown
So we radio into the dispatcher to what we've got. And then we have the old timey bag phones back in the day. So we use a bag phone. Of course we have the old.
00:46:56
Bruce Brown
low band two-way radio. And then we're there maybe an hour on the scene and we have a, oh I would say military, just to cover myself, show up and take over the scene and we would leave.
00:47:14
Bruce Brown
And we still had to turn our reports in. And we'd turn our reports in to the department and they would come up missing.
00:47:22
Bruce Brown
So you have a lot of that going on. Yeah.
00:47:26
Lee Hatfield
Right. Which kind of, know, these conspiracy theories is that are not so much conspiracy theories.
00:47:36
Bruce Brown
Right. You have to.
00:47:38
Lee Hatfield
So. yeah You have to be careful in this day and age.
00:47:42
Bruce Brown
Yes. Yes.
00:47:45
Lee Hatfield
So we are coming towards the end, but. This is your time, if you had. the complete power to decide what happens with regard to cryptids of any description and the way the world is today, what would you bring or take away from that story?
00:48:12
Lee Hatfield
That environment of cryptids, would you make them more recognised that people knew what they were and just left them at that? Or would you take away some of what we know so that people didn't interfere with cryptids, if that kind of makes sense?
Advocacy for Cryptid Protection Laws
00:48:32
Bruce Brown
Yeah,
00:48:34
Bruce Brown
i would I would want a law passed to protect them. I'd want iner certain parts of the forest off limits to human beings. oh No harassing them.
00:48:47
Bruce Brown
oh let Let law enforcement do their job. Let the park rangers do their job. Don't silence the park ranger just to keep the park open.
00:49:01
Bruce Brown
oh protect them because there they are another species of us and at some point it may even be proven well I'll tell you this much on one side of it is of a Sasquatch it is half human that's been proven scientifically the mitochondrial DNA has proven that it's it's got the female side human so it is a human being to an extent we just don't know what the father's side is
00:49:30
Bruce Brown
So yes, I would, I would, uh, uh, I would protect them by all means. Uh, yes, definitely, definitely protect them. Cause we can learn a lot. These, these are not dumb creatures.
00:49:45
Bruce Brown
These creatures can survive. they They have certain ways. They do certain things that are actually very intelligent. Uh, I had a man ask me not long ago, how smart do I think they are? And I said, well they're smarter than Einstein. They're smarter than any of us.
00:50:02
Bruce Brown
If you go into the woods and you say you live in the woods for three or four or five years, you know everything about those woods. Nobody's going to come in on you without you knowing it.
00:50:14
Bruce Brown
You know where your nut trees are. You know where your water's sore. You know everything about it. same way as in we are in our homes we know everything about what's in our house and we walk in and the couch is missing we know the couch is missing you know yeah
00:50:30
Lee Hatfield
i blame the wife I blame the wife. She's been cleaning up.
00:50:34
Bruce Brown
but now they need to be protected far as investigated uh yes i think they need to be more open with their investigations instead of keeping us silenced i think the the federal government they're going to keep us silenced just to
00:50:35
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:50:49
Bruce Brown
let's just put a protection on them. Like we do the bald eagle and stuff.
00:50:53
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:50:53
Bruce Brown
Just make them, uh, you know,
00:50:54
Lee Hatfield
yes Agreed. Because it it's actually quite funny where i was watching something, the the the government discussions that they had about UFOs and this guy got, yeah, do you think UFOs are real or whatever?
00:51:11
Lee Hatfield
it went I can't answer that question. Dude, you just answered that question without answering it.
00:51:17
Bruce Brown
right.
00:51:18
Lee Hatfield
But yeah, but I,
00:51:18
Bruce Brown
right
00:51:21
Lee Hatfield
I fully understand what you've just said. And yeah i really do hope that if we do discover them, that a lot of protection goes into place almost immediately, because then that would protect them even more.
00:51:33
Bruce Brown
well right we have discovered them the government knows they exist i mean come on you in a national park you put up a bigfoot crossing sign or stay bigfoot of this area because of Bigfoot.
00:51:50
Bruce Brown
I mean, they have these in national parks.
00:51:55
Bruce Brown
Keep your stuff up, and they'll talk about Bigfoot in there. But then when you asked them or want to see a paper trail, if they won't produce it.
00:52:05
Lee Hatfield
just the way that the government is in it.
00:52:05
Bruce Brown
for for Yeah. Fort Knox, Kentucky used the military in these giant bear traps, steel traps. to kill three of them on the the property of Fort Knox and trapped one. And then when the male charged, they were in Humvees with 50 cows mounted. They they mowed them down.
00:52:30
Bruce Brown
They killed them. You know, because they were setting sensors off because, you know, Fort Knox holds a lot of gold and stuff.
00:52:39
Bruce Brown
But these big putts kept setting the sensors off, so they decided to kill them.
00:52:39
Lee Hatfield
Yeah.
00:52:44
Lee Hatfield
Wow.
00:52:45
Bruce Brown
So, you know, it's just a...
00:52:48
Lee Hatfield
Yeah. Like I say, it' would be nice to yeah to protect them, but let's not put them on an island because we all know how Jurassic Park ended.
00:52:58
Bruce Brown
Right.
00:52:58
Lee Hatfield
Let's not get let's know let's not go there.
00:53:00
Bruce Brown
Right. Right.
00:53:02
Lee Hatfield
Bruce, it's been an absolute pleasure. i have learned so much tonight, and it's really... thankful to talk to somebody who's had so many sightings as what you have. So I'm really glad that I reached out to you when I did and you were able to finally come onto the podcast after some of the problems that we've had. But I thank you for for coming on.
00:53:24
Lee Hatfield
And it's been an absolute pleasure. I hope we'll stay in touch. So if you get any more stories, you can come back on and update us. But for now, Thank you for your time, sir. It's been a pleasure, and you have a great rest of the evening.
00:53:38
Bruce Brown
Alrighty. Thank you for having me on and you have a great evening.
00:53:41
Lee Hatfield
Thank you. Take care. Bye-bye.
00:53:43
Bruce Brown
Bye-bye.