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The American Craftsman Podcast Ep. 16 | 2020 Festivus Spectacular
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On Episode 16 of The American Craftsman Podcast, hosted by Greene Street Joinery, we celebrate Festivus 2020.
Beer of the Week (Samuel Smith Pure Brewed Organic Lager): https://www.samuelsmithsbrewery.co.uk/shop/bottles/lagers/pure-brewed-organic-lager/
Tool of the Week (Collins Tool Company Spring Miter Clamps): https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B083F883X7/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=greenestreetj-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B083F883X7&linkId=3d4f95fec10cfa8be92eb870cd1d8377
Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
Inspired and guided by the ideals of the Arts and Crafts movement, we believe in the use of traditional craftsmanship and simple, well-proportioned forms; sustainability and ethical practices; and importantly, taking pleasure in our work as craftsmen to create quality pieces of enduring value.
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Transcript
00:00:16
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a chain Anywho, yeah, why don't you welcome everybody, Rich?
Introduction and 2020 Reflection
00:00:26
Speaker
Good afternoon, everybody, to episode 16 of the American Craftsman Podcast. Almost got a wrong guy.
00:00:37
Speaker
220 Festivus spectacular. I'm glad I'm sure that everybody can't wait for this fucking year to end. She's my French, but it's 220 has not been a favorable year. Yeah. 2020 2020. So that's all I got
Listener Gifts and Festive Surprises
00:00:59
Speaker
to say. Oh, I got one shut out. I have a, uh, a shirt that I got from a listener of ours, uh, TGM,
00:01:07
Speaker
You see that masonry construction. He's out of Point Pleasant. He loves the podcast. In fact, he wants to know what size shirt you guys wear. Well, he must not listen that closely. Yeah, I think he listened to it. I don't think he had the video when I was doing the shirt stuff. We did mention it a couple of times. Rich got a sweatshirt, a sweatshirt, two tank tops, a camo shirt. He gave me like six shirts.
00:01:37
Speaker
Well, better cook up another 12. And I should have brought the letter because he said he loved he loved the podcast. He wanted to know what sizes the other guys took. So we led the information to my wife and she's going to get get it to him. Nice. Nice guy. Hey, thank you. He's amazing. Does a lot of out. Well, he does a lot of outdoor work, but also some pretty cool
00:02:02
Speaker
I guess like structures and stuff. Structural and decorative. Yes. Yes. Yeah. Cool. Before we get too deep in, I got a little package back here. Oh, oh. Does this have anything to do with Festivus? Oh, it does. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, we have a Festivus poll right here. Yeah. For those of you not watching. I was wondering what that was. Yeah, that's our Festivus poll. Yeah, it's supposed to be a little bit. Well, we got here in the bag. You're going to have to take your pick.
00:02:32
Speaker
I ordered these yesterday morning. Oh, here we go. They miraculously showed up. Yeah, you can be saying I'll be the elf. I'll be Rudolph. These are definitely made in China without a doubt. We're. Yep. Made in Jinhua, China.
00:03:05
Speaker
That's genuine human hair. Don't really fit. Yeah. Why are they so small? For those of you listening, you've definitely missed out. Yeah. Oh, there you go. That one looks like it's too big. Cowboy Santa.
Beer of the Week and Tool of the Week
00:03:30
Speaker
Cowboy Santa so Rob's got on the reindeer antlers that fit your head I got an elf hat on and rich went from Santa to cowboy Santa So happy festivals and yeah
00:03:54
Speaker
So introductions bring us to the beer of the week. You know, bust it open. I go in to get the beer of the week and Jeff's driving. I give the most vague clues as to what I picked up.
00:04:13
Speaker
This guy's got like a mind meld on me. I can't say anything without him figuring something out. It bugs me a little bit. I guess a Christmas present just by looking at the box. I don't have to pick it up.
00:04:29
Speaker
Look what we got here. Samuel Adams. I called it. Yeah. Yeah. Samuel Smith. You said old brewery. So I immediately. Yeah. Samuel Smith, old brewery. And it's a pure brewed organic lager. Oh, I guess. And Rich is going to like. And they say it's nice and cold. Yeah. They're the oldest brewery in York or Yorkshire. That would be a nice shirt. That organic symbol. Yeah. Yeah. What if they got swag?
00:04:59
Speaker
I'm a big fan of the Winter Welcome, Samuel Smith Winter Welcome. Yeah. It's got like a gold foil top. I never even heard of it. I searched down on my atoms. I never heard of Samuel Smith. Yeah. So they, uh, they had, they had several there. This is the one that appealed to me. I liked the little glass. I liked the logo on there and the colorful label bottle. It's tall too. Yeah. Well, let's crack her open. Yeah.
00:05:25
Speaker
We got our, uh, official bottle opener. Thanks, Keith. Yeah. Keith, how are you doing? Uh, haven't heard from anything. I think in the integrant Instagram or anything, how your, uh, shoulders, shoulders doing smells great. Serve cool. Oh, it does smell good. Cheers. Happy Festivus. The Festivus for the rest of us.
00:05:59
Speaker
Mmm. Dadcaster. That's good. I do like me some Samuel Smith. I'm going to have to pick this up. That's nice. Is that a, is that a, well, I guess we can't give it away. No. So that we're going on right onto the tools a week. Well, that's you, Jeffrey. Yep. A lot of you guys are going to be shocked by this tool a week.
00:06:26
Speaker
It's not something I ever expected to feature on Tool of the Week, but it's the Veritas. That's full size.
00:06:42
Speaker
I don't even know what they're calling this. The mini. It's a key chain. Mini square. That Rob just happened to pick up one for, for rich and I. That was, that was my gift to the man. Yeah. And that wasn't even a gag gift. No, all jokes aside, um, you know,
00:07:08
Speaker
What can I say? What can I say? I mean, it's a nice little piece of aluminum, nice little square. I don't see what I'm going to use it for. I'll try and use it. But you know, we got to make sure when Hunter comes by, that thing's a choking hazard. Yeah. Oh, Lord.
00:07:26
Speaker
See, I kind of live by like the Alton Brown. If you guys, you know, watch cooking shows, you might know this guy, Alton Brown. He has this thing against what he calls unitaskers. So I keep a double square in my apron, which you can use for lots of different things. This to me kind of seems like a one trick pony, but it's a it's a nice little square. I'll use it for something, but it's it'll it'll be sitting on the shelf and.
00:07:51
Speaker
Yeah, it's a clever little thing. I suppose if if you had a desk job and you like a woodworker on the weekends or something, you might like that on your desks to remind you of being. Yeah. I mean, I'm going to misplace that. I really lost my.
00:08:11
Speaker
It had the spray painted orange. Black wasn't the best choice there to us. You couldn't put it in your bib because it wasn't in the bib. You couldn't fish it out of the bottom of the pocket. On to the real tool of the week.
00:08:27
Speaker
This caught my eye over on my bench. Most of the time these are my truck, but I had them in here because we were doing some work that required them. These are Collins clamps, also known as miter clamps, spring clamps.
00:08:44
Speaker
So essentially, if you're watching and you're not sure what they are, it's a piece of hard wire that's bent in a way, you know, has two sharp points that touch, bent in a way that you can open it up and you can use it to clamp miters closed. Yeah, wire almost like the size of a coat hanger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's actually sort of that kind of material, but it's clearly, you know,
00:09:09
Speaker
hardened in a way that allows it to be more like a spring. And you use these special pliers to open them up. You can use them on crown molding. I mean, they're sharp. You can use them on crown molding, casing, all kinds of stuff. So I used these when we were building the window grills to assemble those, that mitered sort of frame.
00:09:30
Speaker
I found other uses you can actually hold like if you had to glue two pieces of Material together like an edge or something you could actually use it to clamp that and it just leaves these little pinholes We used it on the fireplace mantle moldings
00:09:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, it's nice for pre-assembly. That's usually what I use them for. I like to pre-assemble stuff and not have to put any nails in it. Let the glue dry, take these off. And in stain grade, you can't even see the holes, really. Because the wood's hard enough that the holes remain very small. And then in paint grade, you know, it's just a small little hole to fill. Better than trying to fill something after it's painted, trying to nail something together on site. It's always best, I think, to... It's like the third hand.
00:10:17
Speaker
Yeah, that's a good way to put it is. Keep your fingers clear if it's going to slip off because you don't get bit by these. It's a pretty strong spring. Yeah. Collins Tool Company. I think they're. Let's say Ohio. Plain City, Ohio. Collins Tool Company. They also make the Collins coping foot for jigsaws, which is another thing they're famous for. But check them out. Great tool for installs, carpenters.
00:10:46
Speaker
They're good on inside corners, too, like when you the backside. Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, check them out. You see, I got 24 from on here. That's not counting those some that have been left on jobs. No, no, I'm paranoid. So every time I leave, I count all 24. Make sure they're there. Keep them on like a carabiner. So, yeah, Collins clamps. Great tool. That's a game changer, I think. Yeah, yeah. I never really used them till I met you guys.
00:11:16
Speaker
It's one of those things where I'd be on site and I'd be using them and somebody would say, Hey, what are those? Where'd you get those? I'm like, you've never heard of Collins clamps. Yeah. They're one of those little things that could fly under the radar. Yeah. And they're relatively cheap. Main USA. So that's the best part. Yeah.
Daylight Savings Time and Tool Preferences
00:11:37
Speaker
Speaking of made in the USA, I got to do a little bit of a shout out to a 1620. Yeah. I'm wearing some new work pants made in the USA. The, in fact, the fabric is woven in the USA. Everything's USA. They say they're guaranteed for life. This is day one in them.
00:12:01
Speaker
I crawled around on the floor before working on the jointer. Shot off the dust with the compressor. They look pretty good. I could walk into a client's home after brushing myself off. So I'm pretty psyched about finding this company. You should check them out. They're looking through the catalog. It's nice stuff. Yeah. All right. 1620. That brings us to the gripe of the week.
00:12:30
Speaker
You got one? I got one. I mean, we have a guest gripe as well. Yeah. But my gripe of the week is it's longer than a week. It's longer than a week. My gripe is daylight savings time. I am not a fan of this setting the clocks back an hour. I just don't like it.
00:12:51
Speaker
Today is the 23rd, you know, Festivus, official Festivus day. And it's, it's what, the, the second shortest day. I mean, I guess it's tied because there's one on either side of the solstice. Well, the third, the 21st is the. Yeah. So I don't, I, you know, I don't like the, the darkness at four 30.
00:13:15
Speaker
Well, the the time of light doesn't change, so it's still going to be the third shortest day of the year, no matter what. I know, but I don't like the time when it's short like that. So it would be. I'm still waking up an hour earlier than I used to because I haven't adjusted. Wouldn't it be getting dark at like at like three thirty, though? No, no, no, it would be dark at five thirty. Spring ahead, fall back.
00:13:40
Speaker
Bring forward, fall back. Yeah. So fall, it just went back. Yeah. So if it's 4.30 now, that means it was 5.30. Yeah. That's the way it should be. But it wouldn't be super dark in the morning. So what? But they did it for the school kids to get on the school buses. So they have to be standing out there in the dark. I think it was originally for farming. Yeah, it was.
00:14:03
Speaker
kids. That's why there was some break too. Because that's when the harvest happened. So they would stop school. The kids would help on the farm with the I don't know what harvest I guess corn mostly. Yeah, get them to do that now. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. So let's get rid of daylight savings. I'd like to know if anybody's in favor of daylight savings. Tell me I'm indifferent. Yeah, I can go either way.
00:14:31
Speaker
I'm definitely opposed. Bigger fish to fry. All right. So this is a special week because we have a guest gripe. Yeah. Yeah. We welcome the guest gripe. What you got there? Who wants to read the guest gripe?
00:14:44
Speaker
This is from X Crockett X on Reddit who fell in love with the podcast. I put a thing on Reddit asking for questions and he submitted his question and then now he's blazing through and listening to all the episodes.
00:15:03
Speaker
So, uh, his gripe is Craig pocket hole drivers suck. They wear out quickly and the replacement set is cheap too. 350 ish at lows and it drives me nuts. Yeah. I don't like any of those big box store driver bits. They're soft. Yeah. They're cheap for a reason. I wonder why they were made. Yeah. What do you think? I can't think. I can't think either. Me neither.
00:15:29
Speaker
I like like German or Czech the the Wiras the Filos Yeah, that kind of stuff even the the good Makita bits are good So yeah, hey I can I can relate and agree
00:15:46
Speaker
Yeah well at least they're cheap so you can you can buy another one when it wears out. I know well but I mean that's I guess that kind of makes you get in that crazy cycle though you're buying something because it's cheap and it's handy it's available at the store but then you find yourself cursing when it it runs out.
00:16:04
Speaker
I don't know anybody else who sells the pocket hole. That long one. Drivers. The drills. I don't know. He's talking about the driver. I think just a long long number two. Yeah, it's a six inch. I've never had a problem getting bad, going bad. We have those like that red one that comes from McFeely's. Hmm.
00:16:31
Speaker
all those color-coded ones. That's different. You notice how that one's built. The tip is a different metal than the body and the shaft. So I guess the tip is probably harder so that it has less tendency to strip out. You should try one of those.
00:16:47
Speaker
Yeah, it's just it's fact I bet it's cheaper. It's just you have to order it online. Right. Yeah. Go to Casey tool and just filter out to Phillips to six inch. And there's probably half a dozen. Yeah. Different brands where drive everything. Yeah. And just to get a six inch long shaft.
00:17:10
Speaker
All right. On to the questions. You've got a lot of questions this week. The last one's a real doozy. It's long. I didn't get up to that point. It's a good question though. You want to read the first question, Rich? Yes. Do you have any insight or opinion on the Incra 5000 cross cut sled? I know you opted for the saw stop cross cut setup.
00:17:37
Speaker
How do you think they compare? If you had a choice to buy one or the other, which would it be? This is from AP on YouTube. I don't know much about the Incra 5000 until what I looked up today. And to tell you the truth, if you're doing small work, cutting small picture frames and things like that, I could see it
00:18:03
Speaker
working good for that, but if you're doing big pieces, I think I would rather have the saw stuff cut set up because it's very versatile. It also handles cutting plywood, which is basically what we use it for. That's a great point as far as the size of the rock. We do have one laying around. I don't know what brand it is. Is it the rock glue one?
00:18:25
Speaker
Yeah. The, that was made by Jessam, I believe. Yeah. And that, that serves its purpose well, but to me, based on even based on the price, I don't know. I think it's more like a hobbyist type of, uh, I don't need to be cruel about it, but that's my opinion.
00:18:45
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think they're totally different. Yeah, they have totally different applications. The the saw stop is great for straight cross cuts on door material, face frame material, stuff like that. And it really shines with plywood because of the capacity. The Incra, I actually I didn't look it up, but if it's the one I'm thinking of, it kind of looks like a like a shop built cross cut sled. It has like two pieces that slide into my spots.
00:19:14
Speaker
I've seen it. It's nice. I know like Mark Wood Whisperer uses one, I believe. But they're two totally different things. If I had to pick one, I'm going to pick the saw stop because you can do most of what you can do on the Incra on the saw stop and vice versa. So yeah, I like the the angle setting stuff on the Incra. And again, if I was doing a bunch of angles and odd angles and different things like that,
00:19:43
Speaker
I could see having the Incra. I mean, it rides in the slot, which I'm not a big fan of. I like the ball bearing glides and everything on the, on the saw stop, but changing the angle on the fence isn't as fast as like, you know, our little Jessam ride thing. Um, so I could see having it, uh, you know, but.
00:20:06
Speaker
For one, there are two totally different things that add totally different prices. I mean, the sauce stop thing is everybody know those things are very costly. They're well worth it, but they're expensive. 1200 bucks. Yeah. And what's the Incra 400? Yeah, a little less, a little less.
00:20:24
Speaker
Yeah, you're not going to cut a 24 inch. Deep piece of plywood on the anchor. Yeah. And it depends on what you do, because we don't really deal with angles a lot. If you're making segmented bowls or something, yeah, the anchor is going to be way better. But for general cabinet work, you know, rectangular cabinet boxes and face frames and doors. Yeah, it is no way it would be near as good. No, it'd be nice to have. But
00:20:51
Speaker
All right, so I hope that answers your question. It's our opinion for what it's worth. Take it with a grain of salt. Yeah, exactly. You got here from Matt, tobacco barn craftsman on Instagram.
Dream Shops and Woodworking Conventions
00:21:06
Speaker
Longtime listener, first time caller. If you had the space to build a shop and weren't limited on room, how big would you build?
00:21:14
Speaker
Would we be limited on cost to unlimited? Let's theoretically say, yeah, no budget, no size constraints. Oh, yeah, then. I don't know, 20,000 square feet. I'd love to have something where like you could have a basketball hoop on one end where, you know, you have your canteen and things like that.
00:21:39
Speaker
where you actually could drive the forklift around on the inside of the building. I wouldn't want to sacrifice anything on space because you could always bring the tools in in little work pods. You know, you could make that happen within a big space.
00:21:59
Speaker
And then, you know, you separate the finishing areas. I don't want to take all the good, easy, low-hanging fruit, but go ahead. I mean, there's so many variables. If I'm putting all cost and everything out, the overhead costs and that. I mean, being realistic, I think something like 50 by 100.
00:22:17
Speaker
would be a great size. That way you can have an area to store. Like right now, all of our storage and lumber storage is they're in separate sheds, essentially. So to be able to bring that inside, have a forklift to move material and then have a good workflow, you know, from one, you know, from one end of the shop around the perimeter back out the door, basically, you know, a dedicated space for finishing office space. I think 50 by 100 is probably a good
00:22:46
Speaker
Yeah. Because if you have to think about heating and cooling it like we do. Right. That's why I'm saying throw all that out the window. Yeah. I mean, even that's like reasonable 50 by 100. You can get away with it. And you're into warehouse space like I'm talking about. 20,000 square feet is that's a lot of overhead. Yeah. What's 50 by 100? 5,000? Uh, it sounds right. Yeah.
00:23:09
Speaker
That's that's basically like taking five more of these shops and like going over one sit. Well, yes, six almost. Yeah. Think about that. We could each have two shops ourselves. Depends on how many employees you got to. You don't want to be in a shop where you got to call somebody on the telephone just to ask him a question. Take a golf cart.
00:23:32
Speaker
No, I'm not into, I'm not into those big spacey shops. I'd rather have a nice big barn type environment. Uh, just my preference. I like the, uh, cozy. Yeah. I like that. I just like it that way. If I had a choice, you could put a barn on this whole property. It'd probably be nice size and getting upstairs to it too for storage. It would be nice.
00:23:58
Speaker
With a couch. So how big are you saying, though? I don't know. It says double, triple this, what this size is, and have something on top. All right. That's about the same size as Jeff's talking about, only on two floors instead of one. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely for storage on top. All right. I like that. That's what I would do. What about you, Matt? How big?
00:24:25
Speaker
or small or in the middle, would you like your shop to be? All right, I'll read the next one. In the Green Street joinery family, who would prevail during the feats of strength? Brian, who known as BUnic27 on Instagram.
00:24:47
Speaker
No one, Brian. Everybody's out of shape. I think I got you guys on age alone. Yeah, as long as it's not a sprint or anything like that. The only thing that ever comes up that I can command any kind of respect for is tightening the clamps. That's true.
00:25:08
Speaker
Yeah, Rob's got the hand strength down. I think it's genetic. Yeah, yeah. We'll leave it there. Yeah, so I guess the only one I would say then is Rob. As long as the feet was tightening a clamp. We're opening a jar. So you had to see him the one time he tried to do some pull ups.
00:25:33
Speaker
Yeah, the pull-up bar is mysteriously gone now. Yeah, it was pretty... We took it down. It was so humiliating. It was pretty funny. We had to take it in. That should be a highlight for the end of the year, a highlight. It's a good thing we didn't have that on film. Yeah. That would have been a lot to live down. Oh, my God. Oh.
00:25:57
Speaker
We got this next one, Rich. Yeah. Oh, when we're all free to move about the cabin, what are some of the best conventions to go to for all our work? Oh, I would work in conventions.
00:26:17
Speaker
This is from Brad from Blue Fig Autism on Instagram. It depends on the convention. I think going to something like KBIS, it was nice to go to. I don't think we need to go again.
00:26:34
Speaker
It was more kitchen oriented, not woodworking oriented per se. Yeah. Pre-made cabinets, stuff like that. I'd rather go to a woodworking show. I know some of those could be pretty lame, but there are.
00:26:49
Speaker
There are various suppliers out there that do sponsor some conventions. I think Builders General has some kind of little show here and now. That's one of the suppliers around here. But yeah, you just go to the woodworking shows. Again, I know it's the golf show in particular has gotten worse and worse each year because it's the same stuff. I'm assuming the woodworking shows are like that too.
00:27:15
Speaker
unless you go to a woodworking show that's sponsored by a known
00:27:22
Speaker
Not that traveling will work a show that goes on, but sometimes they have specific shows that all the vendors go to, like the plywood vendors and things like that. Yeah, there's that big one in Atlanta every year. Yeah. We have, you know, there's like the local ones that we get up here. That's right. I'm thinking that one. Yeah. Yeah. Those are kind of rinky dink, I feel like. I mean, I've I have never been to like a woodworking convention. We went to KBIS and IBS, which is that's more.
00:27:51
Speaker
like builders yeah and design and there's designers there yeah um i'd say that yeah that's probably not really worth the trip it was a fun trip but um not
00:28:05
Speaker
Not too woodworking oriented, or really at all. But yeah, like Rich said, look for the big, big woodworking shows. The names are escaping me right now. Are there IWF? International Woodworkers Show? Yeah, I think it's IWF. They canceled it this year, I believe.
00:28:25
Speaker
Well, go to those, go to those little ones, you know, see what they're like. That's some good tools there. When you went, we sent you to, uh, the makers show, right? It was a work bench con. Yeah. What was that like? Um, it was interesting. I definitely learned, uh, some good stuff, work bench con for those of you that don't know it's, um, how do they sort of, uh, classify it? It's,
00:28:52
Speaker
For, I hate to say this, but it's for like influencers and content creators. The influencer, I just, it's like a seedy kind of dirty word, it feels like. But for content creators, people that, great content, they, you know, and it's specifically in the, it's more DIY focus. A lot of these people aren't professional woodworkers. They're part-time DIY content creators.
00:29:17
Speaker
But there was some good information there for, yeah, if you're, yeah, if you're looking to, um, you know, grow your social media and get into, you know, maybe creating some content, I would suggest going, I definitely learned some stuff. I, you know, open my eyes to some different things or some good information. Um, a lot of, uh,
00:29:38
Speaker
padding oneself on the back there, to put it nicely. Self congratulatory. Yeah. And some big egos and stuff. But all in all, it was worth the trip. I think it's was it three days, four days in Atlanta. So it was good. I mean, I think it definitely paid dividends that trip.
00:29:59
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I think so too. I can't really add anything as far as those shows. I mean, I don't know any anything different. Brad, the blue fig. I love the stationery, the logo. Yeah, thanks for the pencils again. And I love a fig. We used to, you know, we grew up with fig trees. They were purple.
00:30:23
Speaker
in our neck of the woods. Isn't that what color figs are? Yeah, but he's his blue fig. Oh, yeah. I wonder if that's what they call them down there. Maybe. Yeah, I forget where where is located. Yeah, we had them in the backyard. We'd have more figs than you could eat. Those are the good days. Yeah. I tried growing a little sapling. Didn't make it.
00:30:48
Speaker
The squirrels will get to it before you get to eat. I don't have the green thumb. Here's another good one from Nathan Tree Life Woodworking on Instagram.
Identifying Difficult Customers and Tool Preferences
00:30:57
Speaker
What signs do you look for to know a customer is not someone you want to work with? Oh God. I'd say first off is a overly, overly adamant about budget. Somebody that's
00:31:15
Speaker
unwilling to give you a budget is always looking to cut little things to get the cost down a lot of times even if you can get it you know into a job it's just a sign that that this person is a pain basically yeah that I'll piggyback off that that's
00:31:41
Speaker
that's what I look for. And it's just something you walk in and you see somebody that you realize you couldn't be in the same room with them for too long. We have to work with our clients. It's not like they're going into a store and picking something off a shelf. So if I get the impression that we're not gonna be able to have a productive relationship, it's something that is a big red flag for me. I can't make any snap decisions.
00:32:11
Speaker
And, you know, because as the seller in this relationship, we always have to kind of take the backseat and defer and be gracious and everything. But if it starts to feel uncomfortable, then, you know, it's not the right business relationship either. Yeah. What do you think, Rich?
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with both you guys on that. Sometimes it's also a gut feeling when you meet somebody. Nine times out of ten it winds up being true. But then again if you start to talk to somebody you can kind of get a feel for who they are and what they want and whether they're going to be a pain in the neck. We've had our share of customers that
00:32:59
Speaker
We've worked with demanding is one thing. Yeah, that's that's OK. That's what we're used to.
00:33:08
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, yeah, like Rich said, a lot of times it's just a gut feeling. You get a certain vibe from a person. You know, we, hey, sometimes you got to take a job, but we want to like our customers. Yeah, we're lucky generally in that regard. Well, we set it to some recent clients that came in a couple of weeks ago.
00:33:31
Speaker
We tend to attract a certain type of client because of the type of work we do. And so if you're like a shitty person, typically you don't appreciate. You're not looking for us. No, so we're not looking for you. So trying to attract the right customers, first of all, to help you out the bad ones.
00:33:50
Speaker
Right, I think like our mission statement, things like that. Yeah, it's sort of like what that's exactly what attracted me to 1620. You know, I type in work clothes, work pants, blah, blah, blah. And I read these guys what they're all about. And yeah, cool. Let me let me spring through these pants and see what they're all about. So what's next?
00:34:18
Speaker
What's your opinion on handsaws? This is in your guy's wheelhouse. Japanese or Western? Brands? Uses? And this is being asked by Adam from Far Out Woodworks, who's on Instagram. And a patron. Thanks, Adam. Ah, thank you.
00:34:36
Speaker
You know, I don't use them often and the two saws that I have used the most are western saws. I had those Sheffield saws, ones like a little kind of inexpensive gent saw and I kind of used that till it's ruined and then I have just one with a strong back. They might call like a dovetail saw even because
00:35:03
Speaker
You know, it's great for cutting straight lines and in short bursts. It's got a pretty thick curve on it compared to the Japanese sauce I've used. But I do like it. I like the way it feels. I like how heavy it is. And it's it's what I'm used to, like growing up with the Western thing, although, you know, using the Japanese sauce are fun, too.
00:35:30
Speaker
Yeah, I have mostly Japanese saws, and I like Gakucho is the brand, G-Y-O-K-U-C-H-O. That was the first nice sort of hand saw I got was the 372, which is what they call a dovetail saw. So it's a back saw with... It has very fine teeth, but they're suitable for rip cuts, so you can cut dovetails.
00:35:55
Speaker
But recently I got the Lee Nielsen dovetail saw, tapered dovetail saw, and I do like that. I haven't got a lot of time to use it. What I like about the Western saw is that it's easier to correct yourself if you start to get off a course because it does have a thicker blade.
00:36:10
Speaker
Um, the Japanese saw is going to want to flex and it's not going to want to go back, you know, toward you start going off your line. You're not going to really be able to correct that cut. Um, which, you know, that's, that's user error. Ideally, you don't go off off your line.
00:36:27
Speaker
Yeah, the Western saw is much more aggressive compared to most of my Japanese saws. I have like the Ryoba, which is a double side. One side has a very coarse ripped tooth. So that that cuts very fast. Yeah, so I'm I mean, I like all handsaws, but. If I had to pick one, I'm going to stick with Japanese because I know a little better at this point. Yeah, yeah.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yeah, I'm a fan of the Japanese saws. I like it on the pole stroke like that. I think it's easier to cut with versus the Western saws. You've got a rack of them. Yeah, I've had some holes I've had for a long time. In fact, an emergency actually cut tree branches with it. I wanted to ruin it, but.
00:37:11
Speaker
Yeah, that's how I got introduced to the Japanese style saw is like a a pull saw that's used for like cutting a brand. Yeah. Well, yeah. For cutting branches and stuff like that, like if they fall or whatever. And it's amazing how fast they cut. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's a different different setup. Yeah. I think it was called a bare tooth saw or something was the brand.
00:37:36
Speaker
Yeah, so what about uses? Yeah. Cutting things. Yeah. Don't cut tree branches. We usually use it for notching things out.
00:37:51
Speaker
Even like if you just need to cut something real quick for and it doesn't matter if it's perfectly square and somebody's on the table saw or something really small that you're afraid to cut on the chop saw because it's going to freaking fly across the room. I cut those moldings when we were installing the mantle, those those small. Oh, yeah, we did all the all on site, which is like a little bit of drawn along. Yeah.
00:38:17
Speaker
because they were small so you could pretty much get a 45. I used to make like a little 45 miter box basically for my Japanese saw when I would punch list out doing shoe molding on jobs as a finished carpenter. If I had to do a little bit of shoe molding I would just use that because you could bring it inside you can cut right next to where you're working. Made just a small amount of dust. I mean ideally I would have had those snips but
00:38:42
Speaker
Right. You know what they say? I'm not going to say it. Oh, let's talk clamps. Pipe clamps versus parallel clamps.
00:38:54
Speaker
Most panels we're gluing up are six quarter with gusts up to ten quarter. We've only used pipe clamps. Are we missing out? This is from Brad also from Blue Fig. You know, Brad, first off, I got to say the phraseology is great. Gusts up to ten quarter. And I wanted to mention the last one.
00:39:18
Speaker
Well, we're all yeah moving about the cab and now those are great. Yeah. Yeah. He's got quite a way with words Are we missing out? I think this is a resounding. Yes Yeah, yeah, meaning you guys are missing out. Yeah, Brad you're missing out. Yeah, you got to go with parallel clamps You'll never go back to my amps and pipe clamps never ever and I think pipe clamps
00:39:42
Speaker
Probably get less effective as you get thicker and thicker because there's less of a reference surface. Yeah, they'll pull to that side. Yeah So if you're clamping up 10 quarter with pipe clamps You gotta do them on the top and the bottom. Yep You know, I still also alternate clamps with the parallel clamps because
00:40:04
Speaker
You know, they will pull a little bit. And sometimes your wood isn't, you know, your jointed edge might not be perfectly dead 90 to get a perfectly flat surface. So I like to alternate them just to prevent any potential problems. I mean, we have we have zero pipe clamps inside the shop. We have a couple in the shed, but we're like 10 foot lengths and things like that. Yeah. But we hadn't had to use them either.
00:40:32
Speaker
No, no, we have the connectors now for the Bessie's. So which the Bessie is pushing those hard right now. I see all these influencers showing them on there. The wolf came out with a parallel plan. Really? Probably sucks.
00:40:50
Speaker
Yeah, all of the late comers, they've paled, haven't they? I mean, yeah. Remember that Erwin at Tom's shop? Oh my God. Those Jorgensen's are OK. They're just too heavy. Yeah. Very heavy. Is there any other clamp that we've tried, like a parallel clamp that's been I've seen. I was talking about wood, wood whisperer before, but Mark uses the jet.
00:41:14
Speaker
parallel clamps. They're very close to the Bessie as far as their design. Yeah, I don't know how much they cost or I've never used them, but because they're red. Yeah. Yeah. They look pretty similar. They look closer to the Jorgensen's, I think, than the Bessie's. But I mean, go Bessie. It's the tried and true. Yeah. When you're buying clamps, for the most part, just buy a Bessie. You don't skimp. Not that bad in price. You can find some good deals.
00:41:44
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, always looking for them used, but you hardly ever see them. Yeah. Yeah. Some popped up recently, but they got bought up real quick. Yeah. So yeah, get yourself some nice, messy clamps. I got some some sets on our Amazon affiliate shop. Yeah. Check it out. Check them out. Oh, more questions about the choice of equipment here. Mm hmm.
00:42:10
Speaker
This is table saw blades, forest combo, Freud combo, or those new Amanis. This is from Brian from RJC wood on Instagram. We talked about this in pretty much in depth with table saw blades.
00:42:28
Speaker
Uh, we stick with the forests. I don't know anything about the manners. I had a Freud long time ago. It was okay. Um, but most of it we stick with, with, uh, or rigid rigid. What's that? A nice saw blade down in comparison to the, uh, forest. Yeah. Rich carbide. Rich carbide. Not rich. I don't know if rigid makes blades.
00:42:53
Speaker
Yeah, they probably do. Who do you think makes that saw stop blade? Um, I don't know.
00:43:01
Speaker
We sent our blades, the forest and the ridge, we sent it off for sharpening. Yeah, two ridge cardboard. And so we put the stock sawstop blade in this table saw. And it was it was all right there for a while. We kind of ran into a nail. Luckily, it didn't set off the sawstop.
00:43:24
Speaker
it was an incident yeah it's not cutting as nice now but uh definitely a decent blade the carbide's not as big like the teeth aren't as big and beefy as like the forest or the ridge carbide but um i mean perfectly fine for what we're doing right now we're not working on actively working on a combo blade is our preference yeah yeah i mean if i had to pick out of those i'm picking forest
00:43:47
Speaker
Amana, I have limited use with those. Freud, I've never used the industrial. Some people swear by him. I've only used like the Diablo stuff, which I think totally sucks. Yeah. I know Amana does make, you know, nice router bits and from what I understand some nice saw blades too, so.
00:44:05
Speaker
Yeah, we we had a couple of Freud's in circulation that we solved. You know, when I put together that pack. Yeah. Those were like Diablos. Yeah. Those were like from the home store. Yeah. Yeah. But the one thing about those, I would send them to get sharpened.
00:44:25
Speaker
And although they don't last long, they don't hold the edge, they would be like razor sharp. Yeah. Like just as good for about three days. And then that's it. Here's the thing. If you buy a blade and it has.
00:44:41
Speaker
what they call like an anti-friction coating or something on it. Don't buy it. Run away. The plate of the blade should never touch the work. If it doesn't mean your blade is wobbling like hell. So that's all marketing BS. Yes.
00:44:56
Speaker
That's why the teeth are wider than the body of the blade. Otherwise, it would bind up on every cut. Yeah. Yeah. That's that's good information to pass out there because it's common sense once you say it, but you might not think of it right off the bat. Yeah. You might think that that thing is spinning through the wood, but it isn't. I mean, it does touch sometimes, but it shouldn't a lot. Right.
00:45:25
Speaker
Here's a good one. This from an anonymous submitter. Who is the most handsomest carpenter on Instagram? Gee, I don't know anonymous. I don't really troll Instagram to see how good look in the carpenters are there. Oh man. That's a good one. I've had to vote. I'm going to say Tim from true trade carpentry. Yeah, that's probably, I can't see any argument against that.
00:45:54
Speaker
You know, there is there is John Peters. That's true. I wouldn't know if I would call John a carpenter, though. He's more of a woodworker. Yeah. Yeah. There's also was a Dave D.W.S. remodeling. Yeah. Frisco. Yeah. That's true. We know a couple of quite handsome carpenters out there. You're all equally beautiful to us. Yes. Yeah. Because we look on the inside.
00:46:22
Speaker
All you shitheads stay away. That's right. We got another one here from Brian, RJC Wood on Instagram. Pointers for getting lumber with prices so high now. What's the best route for a small shop? Honestly, we haven't seen an increase in our prices, Brian.
00:46:38
Speaker
We just gone down in a couple of instances. Yeah. I think Cherry is actually down since the last time we bought it. Yeah. We just got four hundred and fifty board fee and it was fifteen hundred bucks delivered. So do the math. Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:56
Speaker
There's got to be some small lumber supplies around by your area. I mean, you can't go to places like O'Shea, Holt and Bigby or places like that because you're not buying quantity. But if you're looking for small quantities, we have a place up in Paul in New Jersey, South Amboy. You don't have to mention the name, but it's it's they sell rough, not they still left number anymore.
00:47:25
Speaker
Who? Wardenbeam? No, uh... Montyth? Montyth. That's not in South Amboy. Poland. It's an old bridge. Old bridge, yeah. It's in that close. Yeah. Yeah. It's up north from here. From here, yeah.
00:47:43
Speaker
and they sell lumber. They used to sell a lot of rough lumber in the day. Now they're selling a lot of S4S lumber, but they sell red oak, not white oak in S4S, but poplar, cherry walnut, sapele.
00:48:02
Speaker
Yeah, a lot of the natives, they carry some exotic woods too. But yeah, I don't know where you live. So they might be far and in between. I think it's in Long Island. See, the problem with a place like Monteith is because they're small, they have to have higher prices. So I would say try and go to these big, a bigger place. Like we use O'Shea as an example, because that's who we get our wood from. It's going to be too far for you. But you can drive out to one of these big wood distributors and pick up the wood. You don't have to get a quantity of 300 board feet.
00:48:32
Speaker
You know, we're getting our our lumber for half the price of what Monteith is selling it for because they're buying it from a place like we're buying it from That's that's the point I was gonna make that a lot of these places where you can pick up small quantities They're getting it from the distributor and so they're gonna mark it up and it's it's not going to be You know at a bargain price and it sits around doesn't move so the quality is probably not gonna be as good as
00:48:58
Speaker
I got a couple of ideas. Maybe one is the thing that Jeff said. See if there's some place around that you can get to. Even if you got to rent a trailer or something like that, it might be worth the trip. See if there are other guys, other small shops in the area. Maybe you want to combine and order. Yeah. And, you know, we've done this on occasion where somebody doesn't use a lot of hardwood will come to us.
00:49:27
Speaker
And and we'll just sell them some wood. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, you want to jump on a lumber order? I mean, we don't have any plans in the in the immediate future. If you're only out on Long Island, it's an hour and a half drive. Yeah. Let us know. Maybe we could work some out. Yeah. So network is, I guess, the best way to summarize that network. See what's out there and see what you could get going so that you can get your hands on some good wood at some good prices. Yeah. It's possible.
00:49:56
Speaker
Oh yeah. Yeah. We looked for a long time. It took us a couple of months. Yeah. All right. Thanks a lot, Brian.
00:50:04
Speaker
All right, we're on the second page. Now these questions.
Custom Kitchens and Cabinetry Traditions
00:50:08
Speaker
Yeah, let me read this one because I had to actually ask this from Michael. He is because I don't have a clue what he's asked. Cran Beetha workshop on Instagram. Sorry if I butchered that. He's asking, what are your thoughts on using the plastic sink bases when otherwise building custom? So I reached out to clarify. I wasn't exactly sure what he meant. So you can buy.
00:50:29
Speaker
basically a plastic, I'm assuming it's PVC or something like that, a base cabinet for a sink base so that if you have a leak in the plumbing or some sort of household chemical that spills, it doesn't ruin the cabinet. So he's asking how do you integrate that into a custom kitchen and what our thoughts are on that practice in general.
00:50:55
Speaker
None of us had ever heard of this before. Me neither. I've heard of outdoor PVC cabinets. Yeah. And we've all built, for commercial restaurants, cabinets made out of starboard, which is, what is that, HDEML? HDPE. HDPE, HTML.
00:51:15
Speaker
hypertext. Snapchamp, Instagram, instabook. Give me that FaceTime. And we've all seen the rotted out floor of a sink-based cabinet too, especially when it's made out of particle board.
00:51:35
Speaker
And and Jeff and I we were talking this over and we were saying you know if if we built the cabinet and The the nice plywood that we use for the cabinets and it's it's pre-finished for the most part for those types of applications It'd have to sit in water for quite a while Before it really deteriorated so yeah to not be able to bounce back. You know I don't it's I see it as a non
00:52:02
Speaker
issue with something like that that we would build and if it was like in a super wet area where it was exposed to water and not you know just by chance you know an accident with a car then
00:52:20
Speaker
I suppose I would go with something like that, or I'd probably want to opt to build it. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. If you're really worried, just make the bottom of your cabinet out of a store board. Yeah. Or AZEC. But here's the caveat. Those materials move a lot. I don't know about HDPE, but something like AZEC moves a lot. So take that into account. Yeah, you're trading insecurities there.
00:52:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, leaks do happen on a sink, but, you know, wipe it up.
00:52:55
Speaker
Yeah. And that plywood will dry out. Yeah, yeah, definitely. If it gets, you know, it's pre-finished plywood, so it'll have to run to the back, get down into the dado if you have the back dadoed in and then sit there. But as long as it's not leaking for hours, you'd figure that it would. I mean, finish both sides, especially at the bottom. It's off the floor, so there's going to be air under there for it to breathe.
00:53:23
Speaker
that's interesting and let's say you did how would you how would you integrate it in that's that's what he's asking yeah well definitely have to go with the you know the face frame yeah and everything like that yeah rip the face frame off or get it without one and then essentially would look like the other cabinets
00:53:41
Speaker
Yeah, because we don't build a sink base and then put a base 18 next to it and a base 24 next to that and a base 36. All the face frames are interconnected and the cabinets are all already attached to one another. Yeah, it might be a 63 and a half inch wide cabinet.
00:53:56
Speaker
Right. Or a 98. Right. Right. Right. Yes. As big as we can make it and get into the house with it and things like that. We want to, you know, put everything together because it installs really solid and level and.
00:54:12
Speaker
You're not going to have I mean, when you see these nice insect kitchens and then there's a seam between every style, right? It's it's insane. That's the thing that it really does. It eliminates that double style. Yeah, which is a real killer as far as like the aesthetics. Yeah.
00:54:34
Speaker
All right. This is a pretty apropos question and it's from Low Country Modern, Locomodern on Instagram. Have you guys ever considered doing a collaboration on a project with someone? Maybe John Peters.
00:54:52
Speaker
Yeah, I don't know how much we can actually say or if we can say anything, but I just say keep an eye out because we got something coming up. We're actually doing something like that. Who's John Petis? He's got a honey growing operation. Yeah, John stopped by. Was that last Wednesday? Honey growing. He dropped off some more honey. That honey. It's amazing. Yeah, it is.
00:55:19
Speaker
But yeah, we've actually we've had a we've tried to collaborate with John a couple times and things just didn't work out with timing and stuff, timing with clients. So it's something that we've been pursuing, you know, in conjunction with John for a while now. Oh, yeah. And we've talked about trying to incorporate our buddy Manny, who's a metal fabricator. Yeah.
00:55:41
Speaker
uh into some of the jobs because you know we we design from scratch so we do have that that liberty that freedom if we can dream it up and pitch it to the client um you know we could include just about anything yeah um a hundred years ago i i found a blacksmith
00:55:59
Speaker
uh on michelle gray's desk you get i don't know if you ever saw it it's has like a it's a curved desk and i brought a template to an actual blacksmith who hammered out these hoops and the hold the desk together and that was pretty cool nice um
00:56:17
Speaker
So it's fun to collaborate. Oh yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm totally open to the idea. Yeah. You have somebody that you think would be a good fit, reach out to them, reach out to us. We, you know, we're all ears. It's usually it's up to the client. It's finding the, the end user. Yeah. Well, this I think would be more of like a non client kind of situation. All right. Yeah. Like somebody that's just building something to build that kind of deal. Okay.
00:56:43
Speaker
Well, we're down to the last question, which is a biggie. Well, no, there's another one that was too long for me to type out. So we missed this question last week. I reached out to Ben this morning. It just popped into my head the other day. I said, oh, man, we never answered that question about the cabinsaw. So it's a good question. It really made Robin, I think, when we read it.
00:57:08
Speaker
Why do you guys think the cabinet saw is ubiquitous with wood shops in America? Is it something to do with the cabinets being made in a distinctly different way to how they would be in say Europe or Australia, where you would very rarely see a cabinet saw in a professional shop? Or do you think it's more of a case of tradition? Guys who use them in shops they started out in, so when they set up their own they need, they, sorry, so when they set up their own they do the same?
00:57:33
Speaker
Or maybe the style of cabinetry means they're better suited, or maybe something completely different altogether. As someone in the UK, I always find it interesting how different workshops in America, Canada, etc. look to the workshops over here. That's from Ben Chester and Morris Kitchens on Instagram.
00:57:49
Speaker
That's intriguing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, to start off, the short answer is we don't know for sure. That's that's for damn sure. Yeah. I have no idea what they're using in Europe. We have some theories. Yeah. We got plenty of opinion. What do you think, Ritz? Yeah. I don't even know what they're using. Are you telling me you're using like heavy duty? Like Euro Slider, like what what they got over at Time Shop. OK. Or like, you know, smaller, maybe smaller version of it.
00:58:16
Speaker
like a hammer or a Felder. Well, I can't believe that that would be the only table. So you would find in Europe that you wouldn't see. A regular cabinet, so like a paramedic or a source stop and things like that.
00:58:30
Speaker
I'd find it hard to believe that that the smaller shops you go to, you wouldn't find that type of setup. Well, they have a lot of shows that that size, but set up like a, you know, yeah. Yeah. Maybe it's just because they're readily available in Europe because they're made overseas. I think that has a lot to do with it. Yeah.
00:58:51
Speaker
And the same thing, conversely, it's true for the saws we use here. I mean, think of the biggies. There's the Unisaw, there's Powermatic, and probably before them both was Craftsman. Yeah, and then you have your Tanoitz, your Oliver, all those olders. Generals. Would you call that a cabinet saw? I guess not.
00:59:18
Speaker
No, but they weren't sliders. Right. Yeah. I mean, some of them had sliding portions to them, I guess. Yeah, the old olives did. Yeah, but they were those big cast iron. Yeah, three by three or bigger. I mean, I think really it's basically everything you said here.
00:59:37
Speaker
It has to do with the types of cabinetry. In Europe, a lot of it is Euroframeless. That's where the name comes from, is Euroframeless. So they're breaking down primarily sheet stock. And then edge banding it. Right, so a slider is a great tool to have. Here, it's starting to change over, not starting to, I guess it has changed over. A lot of the cab...
01:00:01
Speaker
You get what I'm trying to say. What we're building are frame inset. So we're using a lot of hardwood instead of slab doors and just plywood boxes with no face frame. So that that's a reason why we use a cabinet saw because it's better to use a cabinet saw with with hardwood. I think I found it easier. I do have some experience with euro saws. What else? You know, I think we have more.
01:00:26
Speaker
opportunity to buy wood at a better price. It's more available, you know, than in many European countries. Can people in Britain get hard Jerry? I don't know.
01:00:44
Speaker
They can get Nordic cherry. They get English oak. Yeah, English oak. I think there might be, you know, more forestry going on here. We're cutting down our trees and we have the wood available to work with it. That might have something to do with why they went to euro frameless with slab doors and edge banding.
01:01:07
Speaker
And they were ahead of the curve with small cars and all this other stuff. Yeah. Compared to us from, I mean, something that I've heard is that, you know, here you think a Euro frameless, I think personally, I think cheap. That's, yeah, that's the, uh, the connotation that I get when I hear that in Europe. It's not that way. No, like people will literally take their cabinets with them if they move. Um,
01:01:37
Speaker
So I don't know. I don't really know a lot about the situation of these shops in Europe. That's true. Unless they visit one at a chance. Be interested to go overseas and visit a couple of shops someday. We have to see how they how they do things.
01:01:55
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I think you're definitely right with the availability. Like you can't. There's a lot of Italian names. SCMI, Minimax. And I don't know of a place around here where you can go and even see a sliding table. So nothing to buy, I mean.
01:02:11
Speaker
No, there used to be a guy in Jersey City that sold used equipment like that. I don't even think he's there anymore. I can't even think of what his name was. But he was a big dealer and used use machinery. You got a wood craft or something they have.
01:02:29
Speaker
And then there was the other place I don't think they sold that was on Route 22. Force Machinery. Oh, yeah, I've been. Yeah, I don't know if they sold. I don't know if they sold that kind of stuff either. I was saying, I don't think you can even go anywhere around here and see, you know, like a show to see a Felder or Alton Dorff. The only time we'd seen him, we're at those small woodworking shows.
01:02:56
Speaker
Yeah, I I'd been to four several times they had a couple of Manufacturers jet was one of the biggies they pushed up there so they didn't have anything and a lot like what we have is sort of what they push
01:03:15
Speaker
on a small shop, you know, a cabinet saw, a sliding accessory. I think for what we do, this is the best. Yeah, it gives us the good all around. It doesn't take up a big footprint. Yeah, I mean, for one of those,
01:03:31
Speaker
Like when we worked at Tom's shop, you know, that table saw took up basically eight by 16 feet. I didn't even like using it except to break down plywood. Right. Right. That's what I was going to say. It's great for breaking down plywood. Right. That saw was in shambles and not very accurate. And Tom tried to tell me that the way that I was tuning up the saw was, you know, the five cut method is not as good as the two cut method, apparently. Figure that out.
01:03:59
Speaker
I don't even finish with this one yet. Yeah, I'm right. Where was I going with that? Oh, yeah. So, I mean, I would love to have a Euro style saw here if we had the space. Again, go back to Tobacco Barn. If I had a 50 by 100 shop, you better bet that I'm going to have a Euro saw there too and two cabinet saws or more. But for what we do, we got to have the best all around machine. I think this is the best.
01:04:28
Speaker
Yeah, it's not comfortable for me to rip hardwood and stuff on a slide. I don't like it. You can't get in the right position. No, maybe a small one because I haven't used one of the small ones. Yeah. But a big saw may be breaking down plywood. Not really good for that finesse sort of. No, it's got that huge 14 inch blade. 16 inch blade. Oh, God. Oh, forget it.
01:04:53
Speaker
So, uh, that was a good food for thought. Yeah. Raised more questions and answers. I, I'm curious to see what Ben thinks. I guess he kind of told us with, with all the questions you posed. Yeah. If you have any answers to questions that we just posed in our ignorance of the Euro saw, let us know. Yeah. Yeah. So this next one, I'm going to have to break out my phone. I got this email, there goes my cap.
01:05:22
Speaker
gone got this email I want to say last night from Benjamin anchor holds let's see he's scrolling through the email here we go
01:05:40
Speaker
Yeah, I got it last night. Hi guys, first of all, I have really enjoyed your podcast and hearing all of your stories. It is a show I really look forward to every week. I got turned on to you all through John Peter's channel and the shop tour he did. Thanks, Ben. I wanted to ask a follow up question from episode 14. The question was, have any of you attended a formal woodworking education or apprenticeship?
01:06:04
Speaker
My question is, if you were ever in a position to hire an additional person in the shop, would you ever hire someone who came from a different field? Let's say they were a hobby woodworker, sincerely enjoyed home renovation projects, and were looking for a career change. Being that you guys all started in other fields, what would you look for in a candidate now that you are professional woodworkers?
01:06:24
Speaker
What would the person need to show you in a resume or in sample work to be considered if you would ever entertain the idea? My question stems from my personal experience. I'm a 43-year-old hobby woodworker who has worked in property management, some light remodeling years ago, and have updated all of the homes our family has lived in and really enjoyed the process.
01:06:45
Speaker
I graduated from high school in a time where trades were not considered to be a desirable career path. I went to art school, earned a degree in graphic design slash visual communications and have worked in printing for most of my professional career. Three years ago, the printing plant I worked at was shut down by the parent company and operations moved to another state.
01:07:10
Speaker
I live in a small town in southern Minnesota and that plant was the main employer in the area. I have had the desire to learn a trade ever since I started updating my own homes. I sincerely wanted to learn finished carpentry. I feel like it is part of fine woodworking and part of construction and that really appealed to me. I can relate to that.
01:07:30
Speaker
I have always had to count on a certain pay range to keep the family going, but after my layoff I really wanted to do something other than printing. I tried to apply at cabinet shops for entry level positions. I also tried applying at a really cool rustic furniture slash cabinet shop as I thought I might stand a chance since I really enjoy rustic items. I submitted my resume, cover letter, sample sheets, and application and really could not get any reply from anyone.
01:07:57
Speaker
I followed up with phone calls several times, all the while being hopeful that if I could just talk to someone and they could see that I really wanted to do this, that it would make the decision of hiring someone who has no formal work history in the field a little easier. I understand businesses have to move products quickly and at the lowest cost to gain the greatest return. However, with interest in the trades on the decline, wouldn't someone who really wanted to make the career shift and showed a genuine interest in the trade be an asset?
01:08:23
Speaker
It is frustrating watching the same shops I applied to constantly hire over and over again for the same positions that I applied for. Needless to say, I am still printing and at my age, I see that my window to do something in the woodworking field is closing. Well, guys, thanks again for your work. Thanks again for the work you do. And I am so happy that I came across you guys. Keep it up. Stay safe. Happy holidays. Sincerely, Ben Anchorholtz at Blacktail Artisan Works on Instagram. Cool.
01:08:52
Speaker
Really, really good question. Can you read that again? My mouth is so dry. I lost track. Well, one thing I got to tell you, if you see those companies that are putting the same ads in for the same position, there's a problem with that company. You don't want to work there. If the turnover is bad like that, then there's a problem with those companies. Yeah. Consider yourself lucky they didn't hire you.
01:09:22
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, I don't know what the workload is over or what the economy is over in your area. Have you ever tried working for a construction company or a carpenter that does a lot of, you'll get to learn some of the low ends of the trade of being a carpenter, but you'll also pick up on a lot of things, especially if you're
01:09:51
Speaker
Fixing your own house, a carpenter is going to teach you a lot of the basic stuff as being a carpenter. And who knows, maybe he'll say that you've got some great ideas and now you do some finished work too.
01:10:05
Speaker
So I think you might be better off going that route instead of looking for a wood shop, because as I said, I've seen these ads in the paper many a time, even on wood web, it's the same companies that are looking for the same job. And I'm thinking to myself, God, they can't find anybody in five years of looking, posting that same ad. So something's wrong there.
01:10:30
Speaker
Yeah. That's almost what you did, Jeff. Like you went from one. Yeah, I didn't have aspirations to even be where I am now. I picked up work, which I thought was going to be temporary. And then, you know, eventually my my goals developed. But yeah, I went from a laborer to a finished carpenter to a cabinet maker to, you know, being here at Green Street.
01:11:00
Speaker
The thing is, you know, it's going to be tough at 43. You're going to have to take if you want to get into a carpentry position, you're going to have to take because essentially they're going to say that you have basically no experience, even though you do have some experience, you know, in your own homes. They're going to take that basically as none, unfortunately.
01:11:20
Speaker
You're going to have to take a low paying position, unfortunately, for a little while. For a lot of while. Yeah. I mean, it's one of those things where if you find the right company and you can prove your worth, you will get get a raise. You know, it's going to take a year or two years and you're going to have to work your way up. But there is a there's a pay ceiling in these jobs. That's what
01:11:42
Speaker
What really kicked me in the ass and made me get a job in a cabinet shop was I always had aspirations after after the first year or so to, you know, I thought to myself, man, I would really love to have like my own cabinet shop and do built ins and stuff like that. So I always aspired to do that. But what really put a flame under my ass was the fact that I hit the pay ceiling within.
01:12:04
Speaker
You know four years of being at my job because I had well surpassed the people that had been there for 20 or 30 years and there My wage was never gonna get any higher. It was already as high as it was gonna go There's only so much money that these guys can pay you or think that they can pay you
01:12:19
Speaker
Because they're selling that trim job for a certain price. The market is set already. Yeah, and there's a lot of market saturation and a lot of people doing it for really cheap. And as we know, the clients aren't always the most perceptive of the differences in quality. Right. There's clock and paint guys that are just, you know, blasting that stuff out. In reference to your question about would we hire someone that didn't have direct experience, I actually
01:12:47
Speaker
in my experiences, the people that I've worked best with and have done the best didn't have any experience. Maybe those are rare examples, but I mean, I'm totally, I would totally be open to the idea. Yeah, I could probably speak to this fairly directly. I'll say that from the shops position,
01:13:16
Speaker
They have to pay an inexperienced person to come up to speed. And so it's a, it's a loss as far as the money goes. So the risk on the cabinet shop is I'm going to hire this guy, even at a low, even at the lowest possible pay he can take.
01:13:37
Speaker
I'm losing money because I'm losing time with this guy. I have to teach him. And then I have to risk him taking his skills that I paid to have him develop and take them somewhere else because he might just view me as a stepping stone. Yeah, that's why you see low wages and a hesitance to teach and give out any real responsibility. They're going to have you sweeping the shop. Exactly.
01:14:06
Speaker
The few people I've hired back before we formed Green Street, none of them had any experience and like Jeff, I preferred it that way because they didn't have any bad habits to unlearn and like every small shop,
01:14:22
Speaker
We're all going to have our own ways of doing things. So I didn't want to get involved in having to tell somebody, yeah, that'll work, but I prefer to do it this way. And that way we can keep things streamlined, still going. No bad habits to break. Right. So.
01:14:38
Speaker
I look for all the things that don't really appear on a resume that you can't teach someone. We can teach somebody the woodworking skills. You can't teach somebody to be punctual. You can't teach somebody to show enthusiasm. You can't teach somebody to be well spoken, polite, take direction. These are all skills that
01:15:04
Speaker
you either, you know, have developed through your life and working or you didn't. That's, that's something that would be a complete deal breaker for me. Yeah. I mean, from the sound of it, Benjamin sounds like a great candidate. Exactly. He, he could come to work here except we couldn't afford to pay him because what was happening is we couldn't afford to train you. Benjamin is really it. Yeah. You'd have to pay us
01:15:29
Speaker
to come to work for us. And that's the only way we can make it happen. And so that's part of the difficulty in finding a position for somebody like that. Yeah. I'd say your best bet might be start a little side gig and then try and, you know, develop your skills there and then try and break out on your own. You know, you may be a hard sell to an employer, unfortunately, you know, as bad as that sounds. I hate to be defeated. I think it's the age is the biggest
01:15:58
Speaker
I wouldn't be opposed to the age. I mean, well, I think we're a little different than most other. Oh, yeah. That's true. Right. But it the the economics just aren't there even for a legitimate shot. If they're going to take on an apprentice.
01:16:17
Speaker
Then there's probably going to be a contract involved because you know they're not going to invest in you without some return. Yeah. Maybe see if you can pick up some part time work. Yeah. Then you're not worried about how much you're getting paid.
01:16:34
Speaker
You know, bust your ass there, try and get on the full time staff. You know, then you can maybe get a bump in the pay because you've showed that, you know, look, I've been here for six months working one day a week or coming in on Saturdays, whatever. So it's a good way to get your foot in the door. Yeah. And one other thing is that.
01:16:54
Speaker
It's a rare shop where you're gonna get to do a lot of creative work and work at your own pace. Really rare. So when you're fixing your own house, you're experiencing a lot of the best parts of woodworking. And when you go to work in a cabinet shop, somebody's gonna be asking you, when are you going to be finished with that job? And it's gonna be a lot of rote work. And I think you might have a miss
01:17:24
Speaker
perception over what that job really is.
01:17:30
Speaker
So you know what? Keep doing it when you can, build up your own home shop, develop your love and your skills and keep that income coming from printing.
Job Market Challenges and Beer Appreciation
01:17:44
Speaker
And maybe one day you'll, you know, have the freedom to do something on your own terms. Yeah. Dip a toe in. Don't dive in head first. Yeah. But that, that was a great question. Thank you.
01:17:58
Speaker
I'm sorry, we couldn't be really that positive. We're positive. Yeah, it wasn't that bad for your your situation. Yeah. It's it's got to be tough. Yeah. And you know, these kind of shops are it's a dime breed. So it's getting harder and harder to find these kind of jobs. There's no you know, there's no more Ethan Allen factory where they make an actual real furniture. That's it.
01:18:23
Speaker
So we've come back to the thoughts on the beer of the week. We're on the final lap. Yeah. Samuel Smith pure brewed organic lager beer. Yeah. Flavorful lager brewed only from the purest ingredients. Organic malted barley, organic hops, yeast, and water.
01:18:42
Speaker
I like it. Yeah. What'd you guys think? I was good. I liked it. I'd like to say what it was. It how it tasted on tap. I tell you, tap beer is so much different than. Yeah. In bottle beer. Because I think how long it sits around in the stores, whether it's sitting warm, then it's cold, then it's warm and it's cold. But this wasn't that bad. Usually you can tell a beer that when it's skunky, when it sits around too long. Yeah. Well, this has the data, doesn't it? Or does it?
01:19:12
Speaker
Yeah, I had to put my glasses on. No, I don't think so. I don't see one. It says, Samuel Smith is a small, independent UK brewery. They brew it cold, like your favorite beer course. Yeah. Well, it's a lager. It has to be. Yeah. It's only five percent alcohol by volume. That's what makes a lager a lager. The lagering is it? No, it's a cold fermentation. Oh, cool.
01:19:41
Speaker
It only ferments at a I won't tell you the exact temperature because I'm not sure but that's an ale is a warm fermented beer and a lager is a cold. Yeah, it says here before the days of refrigeration lager was matured in underground caves. Yeah. Yeah. Very nice. I enjoyed it. And this is good for an organic beer. Yeah.
01:20:07
Speaker
I liked it. Three thumbs up, would you say? Oh yeah. For Samuel Smith. Old Brewery. Tadcaster. Bravo.
Community Support and Closing Remarks
01:20:18
Speaker
We got our Tool of the Week. Yes, so as always Tool of the Week will be down in the description. On our website we have a page with some affiliate links so if you buy something there we'll get a couple a couple cents off of that.
01:20:32
Speaker
We have, of course, our Instagram, our YouTube, Patreon. You can support us there if you'd like. We'd appreciate it if you did. And we're going to shout out our gold-tier Patreons, David Murphy, Manny Siriani, and Eric, without a last name.
01:20:47
Speaker
That's all right. Madonna. Yeah. No last name there. That's true. Pink. It will talk about the Prince. Your Madonna. Prince. Your Madonna thing in the Patreon after show.
01:21:03
Speaker
Yeah, so after this we'll have our you know, approximately 30 minute after show Yeah, you want to watch that head over to our patreon? Yeah We're gonna talk about Madonna and Rob and how they are connected. Yeah However tenuous that may be Six degrees will leave a vague
01:21:24
Speaker
Well, everybody have a nice holiday. Have a good Christmas. Happy Festivus. Stay safe. You're going to get it with your families. Just be careful. Yeah. Thanks a lot, UK. We've got some crazy contagious coronavirus over here. Oh, God. Oh, come on. 2021. Be well out there. Cheers. Cheers. Yes.
01:22:08
Speaker
Ain't no shame but there's been a chain.