Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
The Beauty and Murder of Mary Yoder
67 Plays6 months ago
A healer, a community builder, a loving wife and mother is murdered by a trusted family member. The motive and the aftermatch is shocking as well as lasting.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast
00:00:01
bclawson
Hello listeners, I'm Bridget.
00:00:04
Caroline
And I'm Caroline.
00:00:06
bclawson
You are listening to Hearth, Home and Homicide, a family production about family murders. Caroline and I narrate each story, and Andy is our producer.
Content Warning
00:00:20
bclawson
As Caroline and I talk about each family member, we're not only keen on watching justice unfold for the killer, whatever that may look like, we're especially determined to keep sensitivity for victims and their family in top of mind. Our podcasts do include violence and trauma. Listener discretion is advised. So, hey, Caroline, it's pumpkin season. It's just getting so nice outside, but I don't like it that it's going to turn into winter.
00:00:55
Caroline
I know it's already too cold for me again, but but it is my favorite time of year.
00:00:58
bclawson
yeah
00:01:01
Caroline
I agree with you. The shift is nice. The color shifts are nice. The seasonal flair is really nice. I'm not a pumpkin spice anything, but I do enjoy pumpkin as the official sort of like fruit of the season or whatever.
00:01:16
bclawson
Yeah, that color, you know, I never kind of got gravitated toward the green ones.
00:01:18
Caroline
Yeah.
00:01:21
Caroline
yeah
00:01:22
bclawson
Oh, and I know those are gourds and maybe pumpkin is a gourd and I'm not an expert. I don't know. But I do know that I like the little bitty ones.
00:01:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:01:31
Caroline
Yeah.
00:01:32
bclawson
And my mother always used to stuff a wicker cornucopia full of gourds and corn, you know, the purple kind of corn, dried corn, all that kind of stuff on our table.
00:01:33
Caroline
Yeah.
00:01:36
Caroline
Yeah.
00:01:43
Caroline
yeah
00:01:46
bclawson
at this time of year. And I don't do that because ah simplicity is my thing. But I don't know want to clean up after you anything. But I do remember that.
00:01:56
Caroline
Yeah.
00:01:58
bclawson
And it was a warm it's a more memory.
00:02:01
Caroline
It is a, yeah, that's it. It's a warm time of year. Candles get lit. You always used to light candles after you would clean the house. And it just was such a nice, like warm feeling. And yeah, we would just do crafty stuff and it's just fun.
00:02:11
bclawson
Yeah.
00:02:14
bclawson
Yeah.
00:02:16
Caroline
A lot of baking, all my stuff.
00:02:16
bclawson
Yeah. That's because your mother's not a cook. So there's that. But anyway.
00:02:19
Caroline
No, but we still managed to have a good time. like I actually like that I didn't have this like conventional sort of like Martha Stewart-y feel. It was more of like i don't know it wass more of some other vibe and I liked it because we still got stuff done.
00:02:28
bclawson
and look Oh, yeah.
00:02:33
Caroline
Stuff still tasted good. It was like a lot of fun.
00:02:35
bclawson
Yeah. Yeah. I get a lot of feedback from Andy that dad was so much better at cooking than I am. and You know, he needs to remember that we're hosting a murder podcast.
00:02:50
bclawson
Oh, shut up.
00:02:50
Caroline
That's right. That's right. And you know, some things you just like don't have to talk about, you know?
00:02:57
bclawson
But it is the truth. It's the truth.
00:02:59
Caroline
It
Mary Yoder's Background
00:03:00
bclawson
So Caroline, you were drawn drawn to this story of Mary Yoder and her murder ah by a trusted loved one. And I have to confess, I fell into the story pretty hard over a week or two of reading about her murder.
00:03:05
Caroline
was.
00:03:18
bclawson
And in the end, I felt and still feel that I have got to know the kindest person I never actually met. ah Her name is Mary Yoder.
00:03:25
Caroline
Me too.
00:03:28
bclawson
She meant an awful lot to a lot of patients, a lot of friends and family. And this is not a whodunit, although there are a few people who think it is, but I'm not one of them and neither are you.
Mary and Bill Yoder's Life Plans
00:03:41
bclawson
So let's get into her murder.
00:03:45
bclawson
The story of Mary Yoder takes place in upstate New York, a naturally beautiful place for sports year-round, lots of waterways, little towns, and seclusion if you want to disappear and find yourself. I want all of that, so I'm going to get on a plane. Anyway, Mary Yoder's life began in upstate New York in 1955. She had two brothers and four sisters. So it was a big family of eight under one roof.
00:04:14
bclawson
And the family it was very warm and loving, and they did everything together, and they looked after each other. And I think that's kind of most of what goes on in most households all over this country and all over the world, really.
00:04:28
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yep.
00:04:32
bclawson
Now, to me, it sounds like the All-American family, but I actually think it is pretty special to have that many siblings and two parents who can live in a family that has a sense of community and not competition within itself.
00:04:50
Caroline
Yeah.
00:04:51
bclawson
Because you know we hear some horror stories about these big families where they're pitted against one another.
00:04:56
Caroline
Yeah, well, and sibling rivalry is a real thing. I do think people take that on in extreme cases sometimes, you know, they really can't stand that their siblings are doing better or whatever it might be.
00:05:06
bclawson
Yeah. And you know, we don't like it when the parents are fueling that and kind of exemplifying they are the exemplar of that know within their marriage.
00:05:18
bclawson
But Mary Yoder was not like that.
00:05:19
Caroline
Right.
00:05:22
bclawson
I believe that the family she had grown up fostered a sense of community health and happiness within this family. And I believe that because of the way that Mary turned out.
00:05:36
bclawson
And I always say, you can never know a person really until you see what they do. A behavior, behaviors over time will show you who the person really is.
00:05:43
Caroline
Yeah.
00:05:48
Caroline
yeah
00:05:50
bclawson
Mary went to college in the 1970s and there she met William Yoder who went by Bill. So we're gonna call him Bill Yoder. Oh boy, did they fall for one another.
00:06:03
bclawson
They loved the same things, the same places, and they really loved and respected each other a great deal. They wanted to get married, but they wanted to finish college first, so that tells me they got some foresight. They were both studying to become chiropractors, and they dreamed of starting a community chiropractic center together. And we focused on holistic healing and natural foods, vitamins, and supplements. That was their dream.
00:06:33
bclawson
And that became their reality.
00:06:35
Caroline
Well, and this is so great because that sounds like in our day, you know contemporary lifestyle today, this all sounds like, yep, that's what you do. It sounds so normal, but in the 70s, this was very hooky, people were very much not respecting chiropractics
Evolution of Holistic Practices
00:06:53
Caroline
or holistic natural medicine.
00:06:53
bclawson
Right.
00:06:55
Caroline
So we have much more respect for all of it now because we're looking at them the the information and the facts we know about what we're doing and the strategies we're choosing for health. but But I love this because like you said, they had foresight about their coming together to make a family. This shows me foresight about just the world at large. They were creating part of what we live in today, which is a ah society focused on wellness and you know trying to be holistic and you know conscious of our impacts.
00:07:28
bclawson
Yeah, you know when I look back to the 60s and 70s, you're right. There was a scoff about people who were into the woo.
00:07:36
Caroline
Yes.
00:07:40
Caroline
Yeah, the woo woo.
00:07:40
bclawson
And now the woo-woo has been, ah you know that's at the front and center. And my oh primary care physician, who's a very young woman, very smart doctor, and I love her to pieces,
00:07:56
bclawson
um well She blends.
00:08:00
Caroline
Yeah.
00:08:00
bclawson
She wants me to have all the right tests every year.
00:08:02
Caroline
Yep.
00:08:04
bclawson
She wants to make sure that I, she, because of my age, she checks me for dementia. She mentions a name and an address in another town.
00:08:16
bclawson
Then you talk about other things. And then she asks me, do you remember that address?
00:08:20
Caroline
Oh, man, giving away the cheat codes.
00:08:25
Caroline
Remember that address, people. yeah Well, I just got a panic attack because I couldn't do that now.
00:08:28
bclawson
It's really hard when you're answering questions. I mean, you know.
00:08:38
bclawson
Well, lucky for me, she lets me have partial answers. So yeah, yeah.
00:08:44
Caroline
Oh, good. Must really like you to.
00:08:50
bclawson
One fly in the ointment was that Bill wanted to get married. This was the 70s. He wanted to get married, but would only agree to get married if they had an open marriage. So Bill was the quiet one. He was an introvert. He was cerebral. Mary was an extrovert, very spiritual. But in the end, they both decided to get married, and it would be a monogamous marriage.
00:09:21
bclawson
So there's some yin yang in there. She won that argument.
00:09:25
Caroline
Yeah.
00:09:25
bclawson
And I listen, I never wanted to get married in the 70s. I thought, well well, that's just a custom that people foist on, you know, the government is foisting you to, you know, go get a license and all that.
00:09:39
bclawson
I was like that. And I can remember wanting to get married because Ted was on the GI Bill and I found out we could make $75 more a month if we were married.
00:09:40
Caroline
Yeah.
00:09:50
Caroline
I remember you told me that I thought just very solid financial choice making, but it lasted so.
00:09:58
bclawson
Now, I have to tell you, the period of time that I was in the state of not wanting to get married was about three months once I found out about the GI Bill.
00:09:58
Caroline
who
00:10:07
Caroline
Yeah.
00:10:07
bclawson
So I mean, you know, I didn't think I wanted children either.
00:10:10
Caroline
Everyone knows how to make it in icing.
00:10:12
bclawson
Yeah, I didn't know what I wanted. I was running around in prairie dresses and vests with fringe and combat boots.
00:10:18
Caroline
Right.
00:10:20
bclawson
So I mean, that's who that was way back. Anyway, that's the way
00:10:23
Caroline
You wanted to change the world, everyone in your genre, and you did! And now we're having to do it again, but you know, you did it!
00:10:32
bclawson
Yeah, yeah, all that. The thing about Mary was that she had been raised in a community setting. Her family was her community. And family and community became very important to her. Bill wanted those things too. And Mary was the heart of the generous lives that they led. Mary and Bill built up their practice. They had a family of three kids.
00:11:01
bclawson
two daughters, Leona and Cameron, and a son who came years later, about eight years later, named Adam. So he's the baby of the family. They were very popular. They were admired and appreciated in their town. Mary would never deny anyone chiropractic care if they could not pay. She would barter with her customers who couldn't pay but offered things like baked goods, eggs, sewing, that kind of thing.
00:11:30
Caroline
I love that.
00:11:30
bclawson
So she, I love it too.
00:11:31
Caroline
I love.
00:11:32
bclawson
I love it too.
00:11:32
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:34
bclawson
ah And people are, you know, people do that today.
00:11:37
Caroline
They do.
00:11:38
bclawson
They really do.
00:11:39
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:40
bclawson
After kids grew up and started lives of their own, the day came when Mary and Bill started wanting to maybe sell the practice and retire. Mary was 60 and Bill was 68 and they were anxious to travel before they started having grandkids.
00:11:57
bclawson
So here they are planning again
00:11:59
Caroline
Yeah, next phase.
00:12:01
bclawson
and next phase. How are we going to run it? What's it going to be about? And so forth.
00:12:05
Caroline
Yeah.
00:12:05
bclawson
They're already thinking about grandchildren. Let's get this window of time filled with what we want to do. And then we can settle down again and enjoy our grandchildren.
00:12:11
Caroline
Yeah.
00:12:16
bclawson
Their youngest, Adam, had met a charming and lovely girlfriend named Caitlin Connelly, who went by Kate. So we're going to call her Kate. They were off again and on again. They had kind of a tumultuous relationship.
00:12:28
bclawson
But one thing was clear. And that is that Kate and Mary really got along. I mean, they were like sisters, not the same age bracket, but they they really, really got along. In fact, Mary hired Kate in a front desk job at the chiropractic center. Even when Kate and Adam broke up, finally for good this time, Kate stayed on an, on, even though You know, this had happened.
00:12:57
bclawson
She's no longer associated with Adam romantically. And Kate was promoted to office manager. Kate was treated as a member of the family.
00:13:08
bclawson
Now, I don't mean like we don't treat you like a member member of the family, like we do our dogs and our cats and our parakeets and stuff like that. There is that kind of love and appreciation.
00:13:17
Caroline
Right.
00:13:19
bclawson
But when I say Kate treated her as a member of the family, Kate thought of her as a daughter.
00:13:25
Caroline
Yeah.
00:13:25
bclawson
um And, ah you know, welcome to the Yoder family, even though the relationship between her and Adam had fizzled.
00:13:30
Caroline
Yeah.
00:13:34
bclawson
Well, actually, it kind of exploded. But anyway, customers regarded ah Kate as a member of the family as well. like It was always run by family.
00:13:45
Caroline
Yeah, those family businesses are, they're tight, you know, I could never get in on any, they're hard to work for if you're not in, if you're not feeling in.
00:13:46
bclawson
That's just...
00:13:54
Caroline
So I can recognize how tight knit this would have been, this relationship and this whole business, everyone who worked there here, you know.
00:14:04
bclawson
So on May 20th, 2015, Mary Yoder got up early as she usually does. She saw her early morning patients. She was feeling great. By noon, she left to see her mother who was elderly and living with Mary's daughter who lived nearby. So what yet again, you know we see this community spirit, this love for family coming out, not just of Mary. I mean, the that you take care of your mother.
00:14:34
bclawson
you don't You don't not take care of your mother when they become severely elderly, not like me, Caroline, so don't be thinking anything about me moving in.
00:14:35
Caroline
Yeah.
00:14:43
Caroline
No, but you still, even no matter how it's done, you are with them. You're there with them. You're trying to be still incorporate.
00:14:49
bclawson
That's right.
00:14:51
Caroline
I mean, they're still a part of your life. So I get it.
00:14:54
bclawson
Well, yeah, and and and really, you know, if somebody is family centered, they're going to do everything they can to stay family centered no matter what situation they're in.
00:15:03
Caroline
That's right.
00:15:03
bclawson
But Mary, ah Mary's mom, you know, was a lucky lady surrounded by family who looked after her and included her in everything. When Mary returned from the visit, she drank her protein shake, which she usually does. And she took her supplements, which she usually does all of this for lunch. And then she went back to work. Only minutes after she ate her lunch or drank her lunch, she was,
00:15:33
bclawson
struck with severe stomach flu. Patients could tell that she was not herself. One person said she was literally green.
00:15:43
Caroline
Ooh.
00:15:43
bclawson
That sounds like flu to me, bad flu.
00:15:44
Caroline
Yeah.
00:15:45
bclawson
you know Another person said she had red rings around her eyes. Now I can see how that looks a lot like stomach flu. And so everybody was thinking, yeah you better go home.
00:15:56
Caroline
Yeah.
00:15:57
bclawson
She was in and out of the bathroom between patients until she could see no more. No more clients today. Bill came and picked her up picked her up and took her home and the rest of the clients had to be rescheduled. Bill could see she was actually desperately ill and called a daughter of theirs who is a doctor who was living in a nearby state. Now, I have to say that when you're in upstate New York and you say a nearby state,
00:16:25
bclawson
That might be over the border like 10 minutes. So I think that this, this doctor daughter of theirs was pretty close at hand.
00:16:29
Caroline
Right.
00:16:34
bclawson
The daughter said to take her to the ER in the morning if she didn't get better overnight and give her lots of fluids. So Mary slept on the couch and she was up and down all night, up and down all night.
00:16:46
bclawson
Bill took her to the ER first thing in the morning and she seemed to rally with intravenous fluids. So that's great. but but But by that night, she had taken a bad turn.
00:16:58
bclawson
Her doctors felt that her organs were failing. Her organs were failing. One day later, what the by morning, she had eight separate heart attacks.
00:17:04
Caroline
Yeah. Oh, that's really, really
Mary Yoder's Mysterious Illness
00:17:10
Caroline
bad.
00:17:10
bclawson
Yes, well, her family was with her when she died. She died, Caroline.
00:17:15
Caroline
Oh, God.
00:17:15
bclawson
She's got stomach flu, everybody thinks, and now she's dying of it. She was in the hospital.
00:17:21
Caroline
That's shocking and surreal because you don't even really have time to process, to try to come up with strategic responses.
00:17:28
bclawson
No.
00:17:30
Caroline
I mean, the ER r is obviously the great one, but even the doctors, it takes time to figure out what's happening. And then just because they can see your organs are failing, they don't immediately think, Oh, you've been poisoned.
00:17:37
bclawson
Oh, yeah.
00:17:40
Caroline
I mean, that's not, nobody thinks that nobody thinks that right off the hand, you know, the
00:17:44
bclawson
No, although the doctors were starting to suspect because she had some kind of a toxic substance in as much as it has affected every organ in her body,
00:17:51
Caroline
Yeah.
00:17:57
Caroline
Yeah.
00:17:58
bclawson
The entire family was obviously just reeling. This cannot be true. It cannot be true.
00:18:03
Caroline
Right.
00:18:05
bclawson
They all felt Mary's body needed to be autopsy to identify what killed her.
00:18:08
Caroline
Yep.
00:18:11
bclawson
They were frightened, Caroline. They didn't know what was going on.
00:18:13
Caroline
I would be too. Yeah.
00:18:17
bclawson
The autopsy showed that she had been poisoned as the doctors had started to guess. But with what?
Discovery of Poisoning
00:18:27
bclawson
So it took weeks. Toxicology tests continued on the vials of blood that had been retained by the medical examiner's office before giving her body to the family for cremation. So they're taking a lot of vials because they know we're going to have to do a lot of toxicology. At some point, there was only one vial left of her blood to test. So they were they were testing for everything that could bring on a sudden onset
00:18:56
bclawson
poisoning of the entire body. You know, things like strychnine and and the usual suspects, yes.
00:18:58
Caroline
Yeah. The usual suspects, I imagine. Yeah.
00:19:04
bclawson
The medical examiner did not want to use that last vial, you know, gratuitously. He contacted the state's poison control center and he asked to speak to the head of that agency, the person that was the most
00:19:09
Caroline
yeah Yeah.
00:19:22
bclawson
educated about what could this be. Here's everything that we've tested for so far. Given her symptoms, they both decided to use this file up and test for a drug called colchicine. So colchicine is a pharmaceutical that is rarely used. It's used predominantly for people with gout, which is a highly inflammatory form of arthritis.
00:19:52
bclawson
Now, I have arthritis in a lot of different places, joints in my body. And so it's hard for me to imagine that there can be an arthritis that's even more inflammatory.
00:20:04
Caroline
Right.
00:20:04
bclawson
Of course, I eat to everything I eat, it's got to be, you know, show me your anti-inflammatory properties or you're not getting in my refrigerator.
00:20:15
Caroline
No process sugars for you.
00:20:18
bclawson
No, I won't say no, but I will say I, I, I'm way, way, way, way, way, way, way, way better than I used to be.
00:20:27
Caroline
Yeah.
00:20:28
bclawson
It was found that Mary Yoder had been murdered by someone in the office that day. How else is she going to ingest something is going to absolutely do her in within a matter of hours.
00:20:43
Caroline
And Colchicine, she's not, it's not a part of the chiropractic toolkit either.
00:20:43
bclawson
She had level,
00:20:48
Caroline
So it's the chiropractors are not prescribing medicine anyway.
00:20:49
bclawson
No.
00:20:52
Caroline
And if they did, it wouldn't be Colchicine.
00:20:55
bclawson
No, no. She had levels of culture scene that were 18 times the amount needed to kill.
00:21:02
Caroline
Oh, that's crazy. Whoa.
00:21:05
bclawson
Yeah. in a In a few months of taking or talking, pardon me, to patients, Bill Yoder, Adam Yoder and Katie,
00:21:17
bclawson
included in that batch, there really was no movement on the case.
00:21:22
Caroline
Yeah.
00:21:22
bclawson
You know, you've got three people other than Mary and you've got some patients. Now, patients are not going to have any access to anything around the lunch table or the the barista table or whatever they use there at the chiropractic.
00:21:37
Caroline
Right.
00:21:46
bclawson
they're they're They're making protein shakes and they're taking supplements.
00:21:50
Caroline
Yeah.
00:21:51
bclawson
So they they talked to him everybody that was in the office, but they didn't know how the drug had been mixed with what. Like, did you eat it or I mean, drink it in your, did you drink it in your protein shake?
00:22:01
Caroline
Right.
00:22:04
bclawson
Was it put in there or was it, you know, maybe the supplements, it was injected in there. I mean, they just didn't know. They couldn't find any remnants of it. in any cups, in any garbage cans or cupboards, nothing. No one knew of any reason Mary would have ordered cultures to see. So this was a mystery. This is like one of those mysteries of the murders that take place where the body is found in a locked room that is locked from the inside.
00:22:38
Caroline
Oh, right.
00:22:39
bclawson
you know you You're thinking, well, there's only one person that could have been doing the killing, but that is the victim and they couldn't have they couldn't have done this particular injury.
00:22:43
Caroline
Yes.
00:22:50
Caroline
Yes.
00:22:50
bclawson
this is This is a mystery of how did the person get in and out of the room?
00:22:55
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:56
bclawson
In a month of talking to the patients so you know about this, like who got in there? Who was in this locked place or this controlled?
00:23:08
bclawson
access-controlled place.
The Accusation Letter
00:23:10
Caroline
Yeah.
00:23:10
bclawson
Mary was murdered in July 2015, and near the end of that year, the detectives got a very interesting break. They received a typewritten anonymous letter.
00:23:22
bclawson
This letter implicated Adam. He killed his mom with colchicine, and if you look under the passenger seat of his Jeep, you will find the colchicine.
00:23:33
bclawson
That is what the letter said. This letter went to both the medical examiner's office And it also went to the detectives who were working in the case. So they really wanted Adam in the crosshairs.
00:23:49
Caroline
Yeah, to be found out with this culture scene under his pattern. I mean, that's just, it's an uncomfortable level of detail and directness.
00:23:56
bclawson
Oh, yeah, the whole thing. It just seems kind of juvenile to me. But anyway, I don't think people write letters like that.
00:24:01
Caroline
Totally.
00:24:06
bclawson
They probably call a tip line and that's about it.
00:24:07
Caroline
Right. Exactly.
00:24:09
bclawson
detective detectives called in Adam and let him read the typed and unsigned letter. Now I'm thinking about what I just said about people don't write, but I'm thinking about BTK.
00:24:22
Caroline
Oh, yeah.
00:24:22
bclawson
He used to write letters to the police and to the news station.
00:24:26
Caroline
It's true.
00:24:27
bclawson
And so I take that back.
00:24:27
Caroline
Yeah.
00:24:29
bclawson
That was not, yeah, you're I know.
00:24:29
Caroline
The Zodiac did it, too. I think the Zodiac didn't engage.
00:24:33
bclawson
What do I know about what killers do? You know, I try to understand.
00:24:36
Caroline
They were serial killers, though. This is just a random murder, seemingly.
00:24:41
bclawson
I try to understand these people and, you know, and since this is hard homicide, we're going to know that it was somebody in that room.
00:24:44
Caroline
Yeah.
00:24:51
bclawson
It was somebody in that office.
00:24:51
Caroline
yeah
00:24:53
bclawson
Yeah. So they called Adam and sure I'll come in, let him read it, the typed and unsigned letter and he read it and he immediately did denied having anything to do with his mom's murder.
00:25:06
bclawson
They asked him to look at if they could, can I, can we see your cell phone? Can we have it for a while? We want to look at it. Please take it. Yes, it wasn't me.
00:25:16
Caroline
Right.
00:25:17
bclawson
Can we look at your Jeep? Yes. Can you look at the computers? Yes. And in fact, you know, later we might need your DNA. That's fine.
00:25:27
bclawson
Take my DNA.
00:25:28
Caroline
Have it now.
00:25:29
bclawson
Look, look at my Jeep. I brought my Jeep to your place. I was in it, driving it. Let's go out to the street and look at my Jeep.
00:25:39
Caroline
yeah
00:25:40
bclawson
So they did. And he gave them permission to do everything they wanted. And he gave them their, you know, he said he'd bring in his computers or they could come to his house and get the computer on and on and on.
00:25:51
Caroline
Yeah.
00:25:52
bclawson
He was an open book. So they all trampled out to the Jeep. And Adam, as I said, had driven driven this to the police station.
00:26:04
bclawson
Sure enough, out came a bottle of colchicine. wrapped in cardboard and I mean like swaddled in cardboard with a wadded up receipt for the drug addressed to Mr. Adam Yoder, 1990, at gmail.com.
00:26:27
bclawson
ah You know, there'd be some police forces maybe somewhere that would say you're under arrest.
00:26:35
Caroline
Right. that That's just so obvious. It's just a little too obvious.
00:26:39
bclawson
I'm glad we don't have to work on this case anymore. You're going down
Kate Conley's Involvement Revealed
00:26:43
bclawson
buddy.
00:26:43
Caroline
but Right.
00:26:44
bclawson
she But that's not what they did. Adam was standing right there and he was a cigarette smoker. So he was smoking a cigarette. When they dragged out that culture scene and they told him about his email address being on the, you know, the purchase order of the culture scene, the cigarette dropped out of his mouth.
00:27:06
bclawson
I mean, he was just, his his mouth flew open involuntarily.
00:27:10
Caroline
I mean, the letter was the spoiler alert.
00:27:11
bclawson
the
00:27:13
Caroline
I told you exactly what was going to happen.
00:27:14
bclawson
I mean, the detectives believed him and told him he could go because the main thing, you know, this, that no, no.
00:27:22
Caroline
Yeah.
00:27:27
Caroline
Yeah, that's not really how it works.
00:27:28
bclawson
They saw they saw obvious his face turn multicolor and the cigarette dropped to the ground.
00:27:33
Caroline
a
00:27:35
bclawson
and You know, they had he had just told them, here, take my cell phone. they are had you know he he opened He was an open book and they believed this is just too so stupid to be to be anything but a frame up.
00:27:46
Caroline
Yeah.
00:27:50
Caroline
Well, that's it. it's like two It's too obvious. It's too forward. It's too weird. It's too disjointed. Too detailed. All the things.
00:27:58
bclawson
it's fright childish It's childish.
00:27:59
Caroline
It's too obvious. Yeah.
00:28:03
bclawson
I don't know what TV show this person is. watching, but it's not Columbo. After, I'm dating myself, after learning about, after learning about Adam's off again and on again relationship with Kate Conley, remember she, she and Adam were together, not together, but together, not together.
00:28:15
Caroline
No. and Accurate. and
00:28:28
bclawson
And yet she stayed a member of the family working right there in the family business.
00:28:33
Caroline
yeah
00:28:33
bclawson
Police start to wonder if she wrote the letter and if so, why? So they brought her in and boy, they were interrogating her and they were kind of nice at this juncture, but not really.
00:28:44
bclawson
I mean, you know, they they got to her because ultimately she admitted that she had written the letter.
00:28:49
Caroline
Yeah.
00:28:50
bclawson
She said she did it because he would be caught because he killed his mother and he admitted it to her. and And she said, well, now that he knows that I know, he might kill me. So that's the first intelligent comment that came out of the whole thing. But basically she admitted, she tried to frame him up. But in her mind, she said, no, no, he admitted it. So detectives discovered from Adam that Kate had a way of causing the couple to get together every time they broke broke up. So whenever they break up, then she has an event.
00:29:27
Caroline
Mm.
00:29:27
bclawson
And once she said she had to have an abortion of his baby because, well, they were broken up because of the ectopic pregnancy. And she told him, you're, I need a lot of support.
00:29:39
bclawson
Will you be my support? Can we just get back together again until I feel better about having to have this abortion?
00:29:44
Caroline
Oh, no.
00:29:46
bclawson
Cause that was just terrible. And oh, please Adam, please. Okay. So every time, every time they broke up,
00:29:54
Caroline
Oh, no.
00:29:54
bclawson
Anytime she ah any time she accused him of being unfaithful, she caused such a scene that he went back with her just feeling guilty and trapped.
00:30:06
bclawson
Like, yeah, we broke up.
00:30:07
Caroline
Oh, no.
00:30:08
bclawson
Yeah, I had a date with that girl. And she would just say, you know I think I'm going to kill myself. i' they you know but I don't know if she really said that, but that's the kind of thing. you know He felt guilty.
00:30:18
Caroline
She was manipulating him, essentially, through events.
00:30:22
bclawson
Thank you, yes.
00:30:24
Caroline
Yeah, that's o that that's too bad. That's kind of scary.
00:30:28
bclawson
Yeah, their final split up happened not long before Mary was murdered.
00:30:36
bclawson
Detectives built a case against Kate after getting a search warrant for Kate's personal computer and work computer and phone.
Incriminating Evidence Found
00:30:44
bclawson
They found the mother lode, Caroline.
00:30:47
Caroline
Oh, man.
00:30:48
bclawson
Mr. Adam Yoder 1990 at gmail dot.com had been generated from her computer.
00:30:55
Caroline
Oh.
00:30:58
bclawson
Culturesing was ordered on her computer.
00:31:01
Caroline
OK.
00:31:02
bclawson
Now, when I say her computer, some of this was found on her work computer, but other things were on her regular computer or had been sent to that computer, which we're going to talk about in a minute.
00:31:09
Caroline
Like her personal home computer.
00:31:17
bclawson
She had purchased a Visa card with the money, her own money, to pay for the drug. So there were there was evidence of that. They found where she was the person who had purchased the Visa card that was associated with the purchase of the culture scene.
00:31:39
bclawson
Her fingerprints were on the bottle of the drug and that the the bottle that had been planted in Adam's car.
00:31:48
Caroline
Uh oh.
00:31:49
bclawson
Yeah, and you know, she's just maybe not the brightest criminal.
00:31:53
Caroline
Yeah, because that one's big. I mean.
00:31:55
bclawson
Yeah, a lot of times people who are smart think that smartness is a universal, you either are smart and know everything, or you aren't smart and you know nothing.
00:32:07
Caroline
Yeah.
00:32:10
Caroline
Right, it's like black and white.
00:32:11
bclawson
And you're always doubting yourself. You're always doubting yourself. She was smart in her way, I imagine, or she wouldn't have been able to be an office manager in a chiropractic office.
00:32:18
Caroline
Oh, yeah. Right.
00:32:22
bclawson
She was smart enough to order a culture scene. and to cover her tracks.
00:32:26
Caroline
Yeah, right. Using like using fake account. I mean, that is some forethought there there. That speaks to premeditation and calculation. And you were planning something here.
00:32:37
bclawson
So at kmber like a killer like that is going to think, if I can do these smarty pants things, and I can commit the perfect murder.
00:32:44
Caroline
Right.
00:32:48
bclawson
And thank God they have thoughts like that because all those people who are in prison where they belong,
00:32:54
Caroline
Thought the same thing.
00:32:54
bclawson
That's exactly the thought process.
00:32:56
Caroline
Yeah, yeah.
00:32:58
bclawson
They're good at something, they know a lot of stuff, so therefore they can beat the cops.
00:33:04
Caroline
Right. They're smarter than everyone.
00:33:06
bclawson
Cause, oh yeah. Case DNA was found under the stamp on the letter that she had sent to frame Adam. Of course they already had gotten it out of her that she was she was the culprit for sending that letter.
00:33:18
Caroline
Right.
00:33:21
bclawson
In the six hour interview, that they had with her, and this is just the first one that they had with her, she never confessed, but she said things like, my life is over.
00:33:29
Caroline
yeah
00:33:36
bclawson
And when police brought her in to seriously interrogate her and accuse her of carrying killing Mary, she pretty much kept saying the same thing, although she would never confess like she did with the letter.
00:33:50
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah,
00:33:52
bclawson
You know, that's another thing that I've noticed about killers. They confess to a small thing.
00:33:57
Caroline
yeah right. That that's, yeah.
00:33:59
bclawson
To police.
00:34:01
Caroline
Or I cheated on my spouse, right? Cause like, if it's a spouse, soul you know, one spouse telling another, oftentimes that's the first thing they look for is disgruntled issues in the marriage and they'll find, Oh, you were cheating and you, no one knew that.
00:34:06
bclawson
Yes.
00:34:14
Caroline
Or you were trying to hide that.
00:34:15
bclawson
I'm addicted to methamphetamine.
00:34:17
Caroline
Right. Like little things that are big things.
00:34:18
bclawson
Yeah, yeah. If I'm addicted to methamphetamine and I'm telling you that there is no way that I'm the killer because I just confessed.
00:34:27
Caroline
We can stop here. You can just stop investigating that murder now because we have to focus on this.
00:34:32
bclawson
Yeah. Why aren't you trusting me? Why don't you believe me? I told you my deepest darkest secret. I'm addicted to methamphetamine. I'm a shoplifter.
00:34:43
Caroline
Right.
00:34:43
bclawson
I one time cheated on my husband. Please don't tell him.
00:34:48
bclawson
Adam Yoder had been 300 miles away visiting his sister on the day of the murder, and he was cleared.
00:34:56
Caroline
Nice.
00:34:57
bclawson
Bill Yoder was never implicated in the murder of his wife. There was just no evidence. But he did something that turned three of Mary's sisters against him.
00:35:09
bclawson
Remember, she has four sisters.
00:35:12
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:13
bclawson
And they accused him of murder, the three sisters.
00:35:17
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:18
bclawson
Three out of four. They never liked him because he wanted an open marriage at the beginning of his relationship with Mary. He was known to go into the world alone on trips and hikes.
00:35:34
bclawson
And he would, you know, go with Mary. They would go places together. But they he went alone ah to a lot of places. Remember, he is the introvert.
00:35:43
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:45
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:46
bclawson
She is the extrovert.
00:35:48
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:49
bclawson
Now, a lot of people get those terms confused thinking an introvert means shy. That is not what introvert means.
00:35:55
Caroline
Right.
00:35:58
bclawson
Introvert means that when you're with other people, ah you lose energy and you need to recoup that energy by being alone or other coping strategies.
00:36:04
Caroline
Yeah, it freaks you. Yeah.
00:36:12
bclawson
Extrovert is someone who gains, injur they're very energized by being with other people.
00:36:16
Caroline
yeah
00:36:17
bclawson
That's Mary.
00:36:18
Caroline
yeah
00:36:19
bclawson
So they hated Bill because of the open marriage way back when, like 30 years ago, they still are holding him to the to that.
00:36:25
Caroline
yeah
00:36:28
Caroline
I kind of don't blame them though. I mean, I would get hung up on something like that. I wouldn't get hung up on the taking trips alone part. I actually think that's part of like a healthy sort of like relationship, having these small pockets of a separate life that you obviously share with your spouse, but they're not in it, if that makes sense.
00:36:36
bclawson
Yeah.
00:36:43
bclawson
Yeah, right.
00:36:44
Caroline
But I could see with this component of the open marriage, having really been the doorstep for whatever it is they created, which obviously was wonderful. But I could see that would stick in my craw too, if that's the right saying.
00:36:59
bclawson
Yeah, yeah. ah You know, that was, I i mentioned this because they they they felt it was a reflection of his character that he could be the killer because he went on trips by himself and way back at the beginning of the marriage, he wanted to have an open marriage.
00:37:09
Caroline
Yeah.
00:37:17
bclawson
But that wasn't the real problem.
00:37:18
Caroline
Yeah. Right.
00:37:20
bclawson
The real problem is that Mary's oldest sister had lost her husband the year before Mary died. And Bill Yoder was her shoulder to cry on. A few months after Mary died, this sister and Bill Yoder started openly dating and eventually they got married.
00:37:41
Caroline
Oh yeah, I'd be pissed about that. I'd be pissed at this sister.
00:37:44
bclawson
Well, they were pissed and they were pointing the finger at Bill.
00:37:48
Caroline
Yeah, but I'd be mad at the sister more than I'd be mad at Bill. Bill's just some non-family member that we brought into the family. You know what I mean? like I'd be mad at that sister. What the heck are you doing?
00:37:59
Caroline
That's our other sister's guide.
00:38:00
bclawson
Well, I mean, you know, OK, I'm going to if I look at it as an innocent thing and something that just happened, quote unquote, it just happened.
00:38:02
Caroline
but
00:38:10
bclawson
ah I'm going to the the best description I can have is that Bill was a friend to Mary's sister when her husband died and they became closer and closer friends.
00:38:22
Caroline
Yeah.
00:38:27
bclawson
And then when Mary died, They decided, you know, we we're good for each other.
00:38:34
Caroline
We have each other.
00:38:34
bclawson
You've been helping. They get through Mary's loss and I help you through the loss of your husband. We're good for each other. Let's get married. And, ah you know, they didn't hide.
00:38:45
Caroline
Yeah. I mean, that's a good point. We do what we do. The heart wants what it wants. But i I also can sympathize with the other sisters, the remaining family members who would scoff at that and say it's disrespectful in some way. but But I also agree with what you're saying almost more, which is to say like, sorry, not sorry, like this works for us. We found solace after the our losses with each other. I mean, I get that. You can't fault that really.
00:39:14
bclawson
No, when I, you know, sometimes when I am just not wanting to hurt anybody, I omit certain things when I'm around this person and I omit certain things when I'm around that person because I just don't, you know, I just don't want to, but that's, I don't want the trouble.
00:39:23
Caroline
Mm hmm. Right. Totally.
00:39:35
bclawson
They could have snuck around, snuck around. Remember, you know, now Bill is 68 years old.
00:39:38
Caroline
Right.
00:39:42
bclawson
I mean, and he's probably looking for something that he can feel comfortable in someone. Yeah, I mean.
00:39:49
Caroline
I get it. It's a, I mean, it's hard, but it's not our life in the end. So let him, you're right.
00:39:55
bclawson
Yeah.
00:39:55
Caroline
He didn't sneak around. He could have chose some nefarious ways to get this need met and he didn't. He did it the upright way, you know?
00:40:04
bclawson
By the time of trial, both Bill and Adam had complete immunity. So that they would testify for the prosecution.
00:40:12
Caroline
Okay.
00:40:13
bclawson
But the jury was hung in the first trial. Detectives brought in Adam and asked some more questions about Kate's computer and phone and the time they were together. And Adam remembered that right before the murder, Kate asked him to download her phone and computer onto storage on his computer and to please do it in a way that only she could extract.
00:40:40
bclawson
what was there. And of course they're saying, why the blank didn't you tell us this before we went to trial?
00:40:45
Caroline
Oh I bet.
00:40:46
bclawson
And he said, I just didn't think of it.
00:40:47
Caroline
Yeah.
00:40:48
bclawson
I didn't think it was important.
00:40:50
Caroline
Yeah.
00:40:51
bclawson
But somehow they asked him the right question to snag that part of his memory.
00:40:56
Caroline
Yeah.
00:40:56
bclawson
And he was probably blocking it out that Katie was the person. I mean, you know, he doesn't want it to be Katie. He doesn't want it to be his dad either.
00:41:03
Caroline
um Yeah, he probably, you know, honestly, he might have some residual trauma around Kate Katie anyway, because of all this pulling me back in, you know, kind of that's toxic, really.
00:41:15
bclawson
Oh, yeah.
00:41:16
Caroline
So, I mean, he's got his own stuff he's dealing with, I'm sure.
00:41:17
bclawson
Oh, yes.
00:41:19
bclawson
Oh, yes, he's dealing. He's dealing with a lot of stuff. Forensics rush to evaluate this hidden file. So yet again, see right now, they have had Adam's computer in the past, but they did not.
00:41:32
Caroline
Right.
00:41:34
bclawson
They did not detect that there was a hidden file. Now they knew where to look.
00:41:38
Caroline
Yeah.
Adam Yoder's Discovery
00:41:40
bclawson
And in it, they found searches, certain searches, history, search history, how to kill and get away with it. Now remember, this is her.
00:41:52
Caroline
But it's from her ah computer data dump.
00:41:53
bclawson
This is, yeah, yeah this is Kate's computer.
00:42:00
Caroline
And the way the way they see that is usually it's like IP addresses all that background information the long number sequences that we see the code keys all that stuff that goes on in the computer in the background and is in sort of like your settings. so That is imprinted on a file at its creation. So you know, you can't fake it, you or if you do, you can detect that. or But if you, yeah this is how they know that sucking all this information off Adam's computer, it's actually from a different computer. I mean, forensic science, you can't really, it's very mathematical and precise.
00:42:38
Caroline
Facts are facts. It's really about putting the physical person in front of that machine, having been the player doing it on the machine. We know it was done on the machine, right? Like that's not Yeah.
00:42:48
bclawson
Right. Yeah, you know, it's a digital footprint. It's a digital breadcrumbs.
00:42:56
Caroline
yeah yeah
00:42:57
bclawson
And you and I were just talking about that before we recorded today that, you know, digital is forever. And um the only reason that they found those breadcrumbs that Kate had left is because suddenly Adam remembered, oh my God,
00:43:04
Caroline
Yes.
00:43:15
Caroline
Yeah.
00:43:17
bclawson
she She must have erased her computer, and that is why she wanted.
00:43:19
Caroline
Yeah.
00:43:23
bclawson
She just had told him that she needed more space, and she had used up a lot of her space on her computer and didn't want to buy a new one, that kind of thing.
00:43:28
Caroline
yeah
00:43:34
Caroline
Yeah.
00:43:36
bclawson
So um this was big. It was huge. And they retried her again.
00:43:45
bclawson
and ah I want to go back to what I said about they found a lot of search activity on Katie's phone, including oh how to get away with murder, as I said, that kind of stuff. What if I do this and what if I do that?
00:44:10
bclawson
ah Forensics looked it all up and they found that ah she had also looked up colchicine and other ways to poison somebody.
00:44:25
bclawson
How to administer a fatal dose, what is a fatal dose, that kind of thing. This was brought out in the second trial. Remember, it was not brought out in the first trial.
00:44:37
Caroline
Yeah.
Kate Conley's Conviction
00:44:38
bclawson
Kate was found not guilty of murder. again, or you know for the first time, not guilty of murder, but guilty of manslaughter.
00:44:47
Caroline
Oh, okay.
00:44:49
bclawson
They didn't know whether she was trying to make Mary sick and that she would somehow come to the rescue to get back with Adam or if she tried to kill her.
00:45:03
Caroline
Oh, was that like a story? Oh my gosh. Okay.
00:45:07
bclawson
So they knew that they the The jury deduced by the end of trial that beyond a reasonable doubt, Kate poisoned Mary and they believed, but couldn't prove, but they believed beyond a reasonable doubt that she did it probably to get back with Adam.
00:45:18
Caroline
Yes.
00:45:27
bclawson
Now you don't have to prove motive in a murder, but to have a ah a jury verdict of beyond a reasonable doubt.
00:45:37
Caroline
Right.
00:45:37
bclawson
But they just didn't feel comfortable with murder.
00:45:40
Caroline
I could see that, I guess.
00:45:41
bclawson
But they did feel comfortable with manslaughter. Yeah.
00:45:44
Caroline
Yeah, I could see that as a possible truth even from Katie, that she didn't necessarily mean death to be the outcome. But that's what happened.
00:45:54
bclawson
And you know, Freud, I know that a lot of people don't believe in Freud and what he had to say, but I do. And one of them is the Freudian slip. And remember way back at the beginning when they were trying to interview her to find out if she wrote that letter and she did, she said, my life is over.
00:46:09
Caroline
Yeah.
00:46:11
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:46:12
bclawson
And I'm thinking, yeah, you know, I think that came out of a mind that was thinking, why did she have to die?
00:46:20
Caroline
Yeah, right. Yeah, like, yeah.
00:46:22
bclawson
That's just me. That's just me. Just a thought.
00:46:25
Caroline
Oh, man.
00:46:26
bclawson
The high end of sentencing. Yeah. Yeah. The high end of sentencing for manslaughter. is 25 years. The low end is almost nothing. Kate Conley received 23 years because the judge took into consideration the agony Mary suffered after a lifetime of perfectly healthy eating and living.
00:46:44
Caroline
Yeah.
00:46:52
bclawson
Mary Yoder was a beautiful spirit and wife, mother, friend, and community light.
00:46:59
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:00
bclawson
Mary's sisters still don't think that Kay did it because she just loved Mary too much to kill her.
00:47:05
Caroline
No.
00:47:12
bclawson
Well, you know what? Somebody who's going to kill somebody doesn't necessarily stop loving them.
00:47:19
Caroline
That's right.
00:47:19
bclawson
But if they love their self more, anybody is a pawn.
00:47:22
Caroline
Yes.
Family's Struggle with the Truth
00:47:26
Caroline
Yeah. Love is not the elixir for murder. Just so we're clear. There's a lot of messed up versions of taking life out there and a lot of them involve love. So I don't think that's enough.
00:47:38
Caroline
But.
00:47:39
bclawson
Mary's sisters you know just don't want to believe that somebody they knew and trusted and treated as a family member could have done that.
00:47:43
Caroline
Right.
00:47:49
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:52
bclawson
We're going to take this person outside the circle of our heart named Bill.
00:47:57
Caroline
Someone who wronged us right from the get-go. We didn't want him here. Yeah, for sure.
00:48:02
bclawson
you know And I don't doubt for one minute that Mary Yoder carried all of the weight of customer satisfaction, client, um bedside manner, that sort of thing.
00:48:12
Caroline
Yeah.
00:48:16
Caroline
Yeah.
00:48:17
bclawson
I don't doubt that for one minute. But, you know, Bill Yoder had his own clients that didn't want that.
00:48:24
Caroline
ah Right.
00:48:24
bclawson
They just wanted to come in and get a chiropractic adjustment.
00:48:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:48:29
bclawson
And so, you know, but these sisters, they think there's one type of person that is not capable of murder And that's the gooey, sweet, loving person.
00:48:41
Caroline
I know, but honestly, they're the ones that I get more creeped out by. like you know it's there's something to It's the too obvious bit going back to the letter. like It's too uncomfortably frank and detailed.
00:48:55
Caroline
like It's just too much. It's too obvious. you know
00:49:00
bclawson
Well, that's like saying this preacher over here can't be at the killer because they're a preacher.
00:49:06
Caroline
Right, which we know now is actually really dangerous thinking. We should be, if you ever have an inkling, chase it down, squash it right away or bring it to light.
00:49:17
bclawson
i think it's I think to me, in my mind, it's binary. You either believe that nobody can commit murder or everybody can commit murder.
00:49:29
Caroline
Oh yeah.
00:49:31
bclawson
Not nobody will commit murder, not nobody will, you know, it's it's more a matter of no one is above suspicion when it comes to murder.
00:49:34
Caroline
Right.
00:49:44
bclawson
And the reason that I really agreed wholeheartedly with you, Caroline, to include this in our family murder series is because the Yoder family and especially Mary loved Kate.
00:49:57
Caroline
yeah Oh, yes.
00:50:00
bclawson
Clients loved her. Sisters of Mary loved her like family.
00:50:04
Caroline
Yes, she was in that family.
00:50:07
bclawson
And they considered Bill a bit of an outsider because he was the introvert of the family. He liked to travel alone. And I just think that's kind of a branch of magical thinking.
00:50:21
Caroline
Yes, that there's some archetype of personality that's perfect and can do no wrong, which is just so far from the truth.
00:50:32
bclawson
Yeah, I mean, you know, I want to say to those sisters Welcome to the world of psychopaths that always look normal.
00:50:43
Caroline
Yeah, no kidding.
00:50:44
bclawson
you know And not all psychopaths kill.
00:50:48
Caroline
No, so exactly. Some of them are like, you know, branch managers at a Walmart or something. No, I'm just kidding. But there's ways to go.
00:50:56
bclawson
know ah you know Some psychopaths may not have the physical strength. Some psychopaths never have the motive. Some psychopaths run corporations.
00:51:04
Caroline
Yeah.
00:51:07
Caroline
Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's there's a lot of different forms of of awfulness out there. But I mean, in this case, this is what did draw me to this story because it was so scary to me.
00:51:13
bclawson
Yes.
00:51:18
Caroline
That's I do get off the fear of like, Wow, this can really happen. I mean, it's shocking to me, but it's right in line with what you're saying. it's I am, I think, someone who believes the capacity for psychopathy and for murder really lies in everybody, right?
00:51:36
Caroline
But it's your life experience, your communities, and your families that kind of bring you back to center on, well, how can I carve out what I need without really
00:51:36
bclawson
Yes.
00:51:45
Caroline
doing any of that stuff we know is wrong and bad. And so I think it scared me this idea that you can bring these people into your family because sometimes those are stronger bonds than your maternal or your biological bonds, these people you create family with. And it scared the bejesus out of me that she could A, do this, then B, turn it around and go after Adam, the person who had even brought her in this family,
00:52:11
Caroline
And I will say I'll just take this opportunity for our listeners to know I haven't seen it yet, but I do know that there has been a show out there where Kate is expressing and professing her innocence. Still, I haven't watched it. I believe it's on Hulu. It's probably multi-part series, but I guess for me, it's going to be interesting to hear what she has to say because the forensics for me do not lie.
00:52:35
Caroline
Like the forensic computer stuff is a fingerprint. It's as good as DNA to me. You would have to somehow be out of the country, right? Like Adam was. So we know it wasn't him, you know, or out of state or out of the area.
00:52:49
Caroline
But it'll just be interesting to see. And this case definitely shook me a little bit because it's such a nice family.
00:52:57
bclawson
Well, and Mary, you know, Mary is just a rare person where you live your entire life.
00:52:59
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:05
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:05
bclawson
But I mean, there's nothing that anyone can report that did not fit with her goal in her life. The drive of her life, the love of her life was healing other people, helping other people be as healthy as they can be and to
00:53:24
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:26
bclawson
think that someone would use her ah so close to her heart, would use her as a pawn in what feels like a teenage, you know, infatuation kind of a thing, or that, you know, maybe Kate just cannot be the loser, you know, that it has been studied that people love winning.
00:53:42
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:54
bclawson
less than they hate losing.
00:53:59
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:59
bclawson
People will do anything not to lose.
00:54:02
Caroline
Yeah, that's true. That's a good point, actually.
00:54:05
bclawson
All of Kate Conley's appeals were denied.
00:54:05
Caroline
It is what drives a lot of people to do weird wackadoo things that even they admit they would never do.
00:54:06
bclawson
She'll get out of prison in 2037. And I got to say,
00:54:12
bclawson
all of kate cononley's appeals were denied she'll get out of prison in twenty thirty seven and i got say What in the hell has happened here?
Adam Yoder's Regret
00:54:24
bclawson
I think what happened here is that a nice woman on the surface is a killer, full stop.
00:54:31
Caroline
Yeah.
00:54:33
bclawson
And you cannot tell whether a person's going to kill, not kill, based on a stray remark 30 years ago that never came to fruition.
00:54:47
Caroline
Right.
00:54:48
bclawson
or the habits of a lifetime related to traveling alone.
00:54:52
Caroline
Right.
00:54:53
bclawson
I just think that, you know, Kate was pissed off and she wanted to act out.
00:54:55
Caroline
Yes.
00:55:00
bclawson
And she chose this poison to inflict pain on a woman who was dearly loved and dearly needed. People like that can say, I love you so much. I admire you so much.
00:55:11
bclawson
I'd do anything for you. Thank you so much for everything you've done for me. Here, let's drink to this and have a toast, knowing that they've put poison in the bottle.
00:55:24
Caroline
Yeah.
00:55:25
bclawson
Now, you said that Adam probably had his you know problems with Katie turning out to be the killer of his mother.
00:55:36
Caroline
Yeah.
00:55:36
bclawson
And boy, how he has him, has he?
00:55:38
Caroline
Well, yeah.
00:55:38
bclawson
I mean, he he suffers. And in the I went back and watched the court TV, followed this case, and they have a video on their website about him, Adam, getting giving an impact statement, as well as Bill, as well as the sisters.
00:55:50
Caroline
Yes.
00:55:58
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:56:01
bclawson
So it was quite the dance. But anyway, Adam got up there and he said, I hate you, Katie. I hate you, but not as much as I hate myself.
00:56:12
Caroline
Yeah.
00:56:15
Caroline
Right.
00:56:15
bclawson
And I will hate myself for the rest of my life for bringing you into my family.
00:56:20
Caroline
Yes, I know that broke my heart because I. I understand that sentiment, but we can't know that about people. You know what I mean? Nobody wears their eye, have the propensity for murder when upset, you know, t-shirt around.
00:56:36
Caroline
So we don't know who's willing to take it how far.
00:56:41
bclawson
No, we don't.
00:56:41
Caroline
I i feel bad for him because I understand that it's an untrue statement and it's a burden he's going to carry the whole time. So I i feel, I feel very badly about that.
00:56:52
bclawson
Me too. And i I just, I want to be like Mary, but I'm not. So I'll just say that I, I admire her ah because of ah her integrity.
Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:57:09
Caroline
Yeah.
00:57:09
bclawson
Never once did she stop showing love, support, care to anyone that she encountered who needed love, care, support.
00:57:13
Caroline
Yeah.
00:57:27
bclawson
So today's episode is research written and narrated by Bridget and Caroline, produced by Andy. Our research is solely based on public domain documents, including legal documents, articles, and books about our subject. Episodes are aired every other week. If you like us, please subscribe and give us a five-star review. Really helps us out, especially on Apple. Tell your friends about us in person or by social media. All of these actions help new listeners find us. And thank you. We appreciate you.
00:58:03
bclawson
And one more thing. Don't forget to live and let live. Well, bye-bye, Caroline.
00:58:13
Caroline
by Bye-bye.