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00:00:00
00:00:01
Jim Krauseneck
62 Plays1 month ago
A man working for Kodak forty years ago finds his wife murdered with an ax when he returns from work. The case goes cold. Did investigators believe for forty years that this man commmitted the murder of his wife? If so, how will they get a jury to agree?
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Transcript
Introduction to the Podcast and Hosts
00:00:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Hello, listeners. Welcome. I'm Bridget.
00:00:06
Caroline
And I'm Caroline.
00:00:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You are listening to Hearth Home and Homicide, a family production about family murders. Caroline and I research and narrate each story. Andy is our producer.
00:00:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Caroline and I try to figure out what is going on with the family at the center of the case. We know the ripple effect of family murder never, ever ends. We see how a killer in the family is responsible for immeasurable destruction and trauma.
00:00:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So listener discretion is advised.
The Cold Case of Kathleen Krasnick
00:00:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Today, Caroline, we have a cold case that was resolved, but really, was it? I don't think so.
00:00:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I wonder about this myself, and we'll talk about it. It's just so strange. We need to figure out whether it happened the way that the police think it did or, you know, not.
00:01:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So our story is about the murder of Kathleen, known as Kathy Krasnick. In the winter of 1982 in Rochester, New York, Jim Krasnick said he came home from work to find his wife, Kathy Krasnick, lying in bed, dead with an axe lodged in her head.
Jim Krasnick: The Main Suspect
00:01:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
How, oh gosh. Anyway, for 30 years, no one was charged with Kathy's murder until the Brighton Police Department collaborated with the FBI to reopen the case in 2015 with their sights set on Kruznik as the primary suspect. And we're talking Jim Kruznik, the husband.
00:01:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The husband did it.
00:01:51
Caroline
ah Yeah, it's so, ah you know, unoriginal.
00:01:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's a bromide. It's a bromide. Oh, yeah, the husband did it.
00:02:00
Caroline
yeah
00:02:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You can bet on that like you can bet on a, you know, horse that's won in the past.
00:02:04
Caroline
That's what they say, yeah.
00:02:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, yeah. The unsolved murder of Kathy Kruznik ended with the conviction of her husband in 2002. But Jim Kruznik and his supporters argue that the jury got it wrong.
00:02:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And there's some other stuff that happened that we'll tell our listeners about and let you make up your own mind.
Background: Jim and Kathy's Early Life
00:02:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim Krosnick and Kathy Schlosser grew up in the small town of Mount Clements, Michigan in the 1960s and 70s.
00:02:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, can't you just see, like, at Christmas, the town putting on the lights up on the light poles, they're putting up wreaths, they're ice skating, they've got their muffs on.
00:02:49
Caroline
Oh yeah. Hot cocoa everywhere.
00:02:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:02:53
Caroline
Yeah.
00:02:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's just, you know, so sweet to think about those idyllic sort of naive years of being an American, raising a family in Mount Clemens, Michigan and in the 60s and 70s.
00:03:07
Caroline
Yep.
00:03:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
To me, that just sounds so perfect, uncomplicated and wonderful.
00:03:11
Caroline
ye
00:03:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Jim's family owned a carpet store. Kathy's father was a truck driver. So we're talking about hardworking, loving family people.
00:03:29
Caroline
Yeah. Right.
00:03:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I just can see it. To me, it's just like a wonderful family that had a lot of weird things happen like every other family, but they shove it under the rug.
00:03:41
Caroline
right
00:03:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Maybe that's why they went into the carpet business.
00:03:42
Caroline
i
00:03:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:03:44
Caroline
Well, I think that's too a lot. Like this touches so closely on the American dream.
The American Dream and Relationships
00:03:50
Caroline
I think people think of the American dream as like being a billionaire or being well, well, the owning thing. But no, it's actually just the space to like work, to earn your living, to take your family on a vacation or two in a year, to have a family, to be loving, to be weird, to have these little under the rug moments of your That actually is fairly typical, right? I mean, they're typical American white picket fence. This is actually more of what I think of.
00:04:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, that's an outstanding point and a timeless point to make because I do think that there's a small slice of America that wants to get bigger and bigger and richer and richer and bigger and richer and richer and richer.
00:04:35
Caroline
Right.
00:04:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, ah better bit bigger, better, faster, While of America...
00:04:37
Caroline
Yeah.
00:04:42
Caroline
That's yes.
00:04:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
while most of america
00:04:43
Caroline
Very.
00:04:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
is decorating for Valentine's Day and putting little hearts on their window panes.
00:04:49
Caroline
right.
00:04:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, and they're, they have a, they have a richer life, if you ask me, and that is the American dream.
00:04:54
Caroline
That's right. Making little heartache pancakes for the kiddos.
00:05:00
Caroline
Yes. Yep.
00:05:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And,
00:05:04
Caroline
Yes.
00:05:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
More people, I think, follow that dream than the billionaire got to have it all kind of um dream.
00:05:07
Caroline
Yep.
00:05:11
Caroline
That's right.
00:05:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Not that there's anything wrong with wanting money, although maybe there is something wrong.
00:05:17
Caroline
Right.
00:05:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know, but I agree with you and I think it's a super good point. And so back to Jim and Kathy. They met each other in high school and started dating while they were attending Western Michigan University.
00:05:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So they they knew each other. They were friends in high school. And they they began dating in college. That is so quintessential America.
00:05:44
Caroline
It really is.
00:05:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, I love it.
00:05:47
Caroline
Especially in the 70s. Yeah. Yeah.
00:05:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They got married in 1974.
00:05:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um soon after marrying, the young couple moved to Fort Collins, Colorado, where Jim attended graduate school at Colorado State University.
00:06:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Kathy worked as an orthopedic therapist. So these are two smart, hardworking people.
00:06:12
Caroline
yeah yeah
00:06:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they're adventurous. They left Michigan. So in April 1978, Kathy gave birth to their first child and their only child, a baby girl named Sarah.
00:06:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And between 1979 and 1981, Jim and nineteen eighty one jim was teaching economics at Lynchburg College. So he had gotten his PhD, I guess, taught economics at Lynchburg College, and as it happened, the Kruisnecks moved to Lynchburg, Virginia, where Jim taught said economics at Lynchburg College.
00:06:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So we see that, again, this couple is very interested in following dreams and building a future for their family. They don't have a problem moving around.
00:07:08
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. Yes.
00:07:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they know that sometimes you have to do that to get up and up and up and up.
00:07:13
Caroline
yeah
00:07:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, ah you know, Jim was teaching at the PhD level and was highly regarded. Now, this sweet couple seemed destined for a stable and loving family with good education, good prospects, a healthy baby girl named Sarah.
00:07:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it it again and I got to say it again. It's the quintessential American family, really.
00:07:37
Caroline
It really is.
00:07:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Just trying to a little...
00:07:38
Caroline
um To me, that's the American dream that I always ever witnessed people living and striving for.
00:07:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That hopeful, loving family in the center of everything.
00:07:50
Caroline
Right. Yeah.
00:07:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They were both smart. They were both hardworking. That does help a lot. That's everything, I think. Maybe I'm wrong about that. I mean, but that's what I think.
Jim's Career and the Move to Brighton
00:08:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In September of 1981, Jim, Kathy, and three-year-old Sarah moved to Brighton, an upscale suburb of Rochester, New York. So they've kind of made the dream here.
00:08:19
Caroline
yeah
00:08:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim started a new job as an economic director. economist at Kodak.
00:08:25
Caroline
Economist.
00:08:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He was in charge of money. i I'll put it that way. And when I hear the word Kodak, I'm thinking, whoa, that is so great. But is it really? Because back then, back then in Jim and Kathy's time, Kodak was a big deal, major corporation.
00:08:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
For me, growing up, I knew Westinghouse, GE, Kodak.
00:08:44
Caroline
Yeah.
00:08:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, you know, even Paul Simon sung about
00:08:52
Caroline
Oh yeah. Code of Chrome.
00:08:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Kodachrome, Kodachrome.
00:08:54
Caroline
Yeah.
00:08:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Kodachrome products like cameras, film, and and later all manner of technological products involving printers, papers, and so forth. It was a big deal. Now, as long as we're talking about Kodak, I promise you your listeners that I won't go too far into the Kodak thing, but I have to talk about it.
00:09:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Very, very recently, as in a couple weeks ago, Kodak's current CEO, made a very electrifying announcement. And the announcement was basically, we're not going to make it.
00:09:27
Caroline
Wow.
00:09:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And ah there were articles about it in every newspaper, but one of them that I read highlighted what he had to say this way, quote, update after one fatal mistake turned Kodak from $31 billion dollar photography company to bankruptcy.
00:09:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now what was their one fatal mistake? That one mistake was in 1975 when one of their engineers rolled out the invention of a digital camera.
00:10:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But the leadership at the time literally said the following, who's going to want a digital camera when the current camera is just fine?
00:10:12
Caroline
Okay. Wow.
00:10:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So they had one visionary in the whole company,
00:10:18
Caroline
Oh my gosh.
00:10:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
who So by the time they finally figured out their folly, they were so far behind in the digital market that they never really caught up.
00:10:25
Caroline
Oh.
00:10:28
Caroline
Well, their digital cameras are obsolete now. Now they're coming back as relics because we have entire computers in our hands. In the palm of our hands.
00:10:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, I mean, the boat floated and they weren't on it.
00:10:39
Caroline
Yeah. Dang.
00:10:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I know. So back to the back to the story of Jim Krosnick.
00:10:41
Caroline
Wow.
00:10:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
he was hit He hit the big time with his top role in Kodak. I mean, he was in the money department. He was the head of finance. And Kodak was on top of a heap upon heap upon heap of cash.
00:11:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They were cash flush. I mean, they were they were so good.
00:11:04
Caroline
Yeah. In the 80s for sure.
00:11:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, in February 1982...
00:11:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They were doing great, and they had an HR department, and somebody in the HR department completed a background check on Jim kind of late. He's already working there.
00:11:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But now they discovered that he did not actually complete his PhD from Colorado State University, and that he had claimed he had a PhD when he was working for the college in Lynchburg.
00:11:37
Caroline
Oh my gosh. Okay. I want to just throw out that this is likely also very common in the formula of the American dream in the seventies. Lie.
00:11:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You fudge on your resume?
00:11:48
Caroline
You make it.
00:11:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You fudge on your application?
00:11:51
Caroline
Totally.
00:11:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, we don't get to do that anymore, but back in the 70s and 80s and 90s and anyway, he had put it on his resume as well as his application for the job at Kodak.
00:11:55
Caroline
Oh yeah.
00:11:59
Caroline
Oops.
00:12:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, dang, Jim, that's not good.
00:12:07
Caroline
No.
00:12:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, in his defense, I did a little research and I found out that his dissertation, which he had, per you know, he had presented to his faculty advisors who would crown him as a PhD.
00:12:20
Caroline
Yeah.
00:12:23
Caroline
Right.
00:12:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
he He did that, but it it was, they came back, the the group of mucky mucks at the college, they came back with, ah here are a few things you need to tweak here.
00:12:37
Caroline
Oh
00:12:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Not a lot, but just a few things you need to tweak and then you will be granted your PhD. And he was procrastinating. He had a wife, he had a baby, he was, you know, looking for work all over. And here I see that he just did he just never went back and fixed those things.
00:12:57
Caroline
oh my gosh.
00:12:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So he is unofficially a PhD.
00:12:59
Caroline
I just, i mean,
00:13:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He never became officially a PhD.
00:13:04
Caroline
That's rough because, I mean, he clearly has the knowledge and the skills and the expertise.
00:13:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, absolutely.
00:13:08
Caroline
This is.
00:13:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's what he was thinking.
00:13:10
Caroline
That's one thing I do miss about sort of the, you know, I'll go as far back as the turn of the 20th century all the way through the 70s and 80s and 90s was that you and I remember you gave me this advice once ah for finding a job early on. You're like, just volunteer for a week.
00:13:29
Caroline
Tell them you'll just show them what you can do. Like there there is something to be said for that. Like a college degree just means someone has the discipline to jump through what are seemingly arbitrary hoops in order to gain the knowledge. Anyone can read a book and gain knowledge. But can you do it on a structured thing and pay a bunch of money from elitists?
00:13:49
Caroline
And most people have done that. And now all of a sudden you have to do that. in order to be considered qualified. I disagree with that. In fact, it could but isolate you in my mind as someone who's like probably not qualified. That's why they went and got this degree.
00:14:04
Caroline
I don't know. Anyway, that's just me.
00:14:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, yeah, I mean, I think the American zeitgeist has turned a corner on you've got to have a college degree in order to have a thinking mind.
00:14:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, um you know, there is something to be said about
00:14:17
Caroline
right
00:14:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
engaging in formal education on certain subjects.
00:14:26
Caroline
Yes.
00:14:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But it used to be that colleges was the only ah um game in town when it came to formal education. That is not true anymore.
00:14:36
Caroline
Right. Yeah.
00:14:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The trades, technology,
00:14:40
Caroline
Right.
00:14:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
All of these things have, um you know, usurped that. I'm not saying that college education is no longer needed to follow your dream.
00:14:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It is in some cases, ah but it isn't in all cases anymore.
00:14:53
Caroline
Yeah.
00:14:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But he did procrastinate. He never did what he's supposed to do. And then on his resume, he pretended that he did do what he was supposed to do.
00:15:00
Caroline
Thank you.
00:15:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, now, Jim, you know, Nick, in my mind, might seem a little less sparkly because he seems to feel a less than straight up relationship with the truth.
00:15:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So he's, this shows me that he's, he's not exact in his, ah you know, in his final conclusions.
00:15:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's willing to, to um tweak the truth in order to meet his goals.
00:15:31
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:15:39
Caroline
yeah
00:15:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And ah this particular blip was i the beginning of a dark time for Jim and Cassie and Sarah, a very dark time.
00:15:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Just three days after they told him at Kodak, you're in big time trouble because you said you had a PhD and you don't have a PhD.
00:16:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Three days later, it was February 19th, 1982.
The Discovery of the Murder
00:16:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim Kruisnick told homicide investigators that he had left his home at 6.30 a.m. m for work at Kodak, where he was still employed.
00:16:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Just a footnote, that the investigation into his lying on his employment papers hadn't, that didn't mean that they were going to fire him right away.
00:16:27
Caroline
Yeah.
00:16:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Kodak needed to take some time to figure out what they were going to do to deal with his fraud, or was it fraud? Maybe it was an exaggeration once they
00:16:35
Caroline
Right. Right. I mean, it's a weird place to be.
00:16:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It is a weird place. It is. Let's face it. Jim should have told his employers that he had defended his dissertation and some changes were recommended and he will ultimately reach that level.
00:16:47
Caroline
Yep.
00:16:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But what about the college professorship? They lied.
00:16:55
Caroline
All right.
00:16:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know he lied there, too. They thought he had a PhD. But anyway, on this day, why is he suddenly talking to homicide investigators?
00:17:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So first you get hit with a your little white lie. And now you're getting hit by having to talk to homicide investigators. But it was a fateful day that was on February 19th, 1982, because Kathy was murdered.
00:17:24
Caroline
Yeah.
00:17:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This is Sarah's little mama, you know.
00:17:29
Caroline
yeah
00:17:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he said that when he got home, There was broken glass from the door that goes from the garage to the kitchen and then you, you know, or the reverse, kitchen to the garage.
00:17:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
When he came home, pulled his car into the garage and saw this, he also saw a mall ah that had been moved from its usual place and someone one had moved it near where the glass was broken Jim said that he then ran upstairs to the master bedroom and he found Kathy in bed with an axe embedded in her head.
00:18:10
Caroline
o
00:18:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, Sarah was unharmed in the next bedroom. um First of all, can you even imagine? How does a normal person even know what you're looking at when you're looking at your loved one with an axe in their head?
00:18:26
Caroline
That part. Yeah. Cause I mean, we've all seen movies, right? And it's jarring in a movie, but it's, you can separate it in your mind cause it's a movie, but imagine like in your real world, the people you love.
00:18:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:18:38
Caroline
i mean that, yeah.
00:18:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think my my eyes would start swirling around and I'd probably pass out or I might think, hey, you know, it's not Halloween. Get up.
00:18:47
Caroline
Yeah, right, right.
00:18:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, what? I just, I cannot fathom what he felt if he was innocent.
00:18:56
Caroline
Yeah.
00:18:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The axe was his. And it was stored in the garage near where the mall was supposed to be. So in his mind, he's thinking mall is like a, um it's like a, um like a hammer.
00:19:04
Caroline
Now, who has a mall?
00:19:12
Caroline
Like a spiky bat, right?
00:19:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Huh?
00:19:15
Caroline
Is it like a spiky bat?
00:19:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, it's a, it's a blunt object.
00:19:18
Caroline
oh
00:19:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's like a um hammer with a head on both ends.
00:19:24
Caroline
Oh, okay. Because I was thinking like a ah medieval thing and i'm like, who's got a mall in there?
00:19:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Like a sledgehammer, like a sledgehammer.
00:19:31
Caroline
Okay.
00:19:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, no, a maul would be like a sledgehammer.
00:19:34
Caroline
Okay.
00:19:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, if yeah, I mean, you know, he if he's got a maul and he's got a an axe, there may be woods involved.
00:19:35
Caroline
Okay. Yeah.
00:19:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He may be doing, you know, when you split wood, you sometimes will put a separator thing into the wood's head and then you um hammer it with a yeah sledgehammer.
00:19:46
Caroline
Yeah.
00:19:49
Caroline
Yep.
00:19:55
Caroline
Yes. Yak on it with them. Yeah.
00:19:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's that. So, anyway, Jim was in shock. He scooped up Sarah. I mean, she's got an axe in her head.
00:20:10
Caroline
Yeah.
00:20:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Not Sarah, but his wife.
00:20:12
Caroline
But Kathy does.
00:20:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
he He runs with Sarah to a neighbor. And what the neighbor has said is that um she told investigators that Khrushnack came to her door and quote, clutching Sarah in his arms and it had the look of terror on his face.
00:20:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he literally, what he was making sounds like, yeah ah yeah but he could not get words out of his mouth. He could not form words.
00:20:46
Caroline
Yeah. Which, but I mean, could, I would i mean, imagine, as we're imagining what it would be like if we were innocent, walking in that room, that's what you see. This makes sense as to, like, you can't, you know...
00:20:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yeah um Yeah, this is what she said. The neighbor called 911, frantically telling the operator that she believes a murder maybe has occurred across the street.
00:21:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I find that to be a little weird because she just, I mean, in this story, we're finding out that Jim could not speak.
00:21:17
Caroline
yeah Well, what we know now, there's been a recent crimes where, you know, there were young people involved and and there's, it's hard for the public to understand what the witnesses kind of ended up going through right now that we're combing through the details of everyone's movements.
00:21:34
Caroline
I think sometimes when people get involved in trauma or like you're saying, like these really out of worldly experiences for our brain, like walking into a loved one with an ax in their head is like you said, it's a Halloween joke.
00:21:47
Caroline
It's not, that cannot be real to the brain. So I could, it makes sense to me that Jim would be in this sort of shock like state where he can't speak.
00:21:58
Caroline
His functions are diminished in his brain because his brain trying to figure out what the hell reality am I in right now?
00:22:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, and the neighbor, seeing that, this man, who you know, he's clutching his daughter, and he's, ah, ah, ah.
00:22:08
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:14
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In her she gets on 911, and the first thing she thinks of is murder.
00:22:23
Caroline
Murder. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She doesn't say axe murder.
00:22:29
Caroline
She doesn't even say my neighbor's being weird. Like he's having a medical emergency right now. I don't know what's going on with him.
00:22:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yeah no Yeah, I don't know what's going on. No, she she said it was murder. So Jim and Sarah were interviewed, and Jim's story did not change over many interviews. Sarah was interviewed.
00:22:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She was only three and a half years old.
Inconsistent Accounts and Alternate Suspects
00:22:48
Caroline
Oh
00:22:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she mentioned seeing a bad man, but she first said the man had a hammer in his head. Then she said an axe. She also described the man's face as many, many colors.
00:23:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And Detective a Flood was his name, interesting name, believed Sarah was not seeing a man at all, but rather her dead mother, covered in blood.
00:23:08
Caroline
wow.
00:23:15
Caroline
Hello. Oh. Oh.
00:23:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, who knows? Anyway, jim I doubt that whoever killed Sarah Kathy was not a man of many colors with an achetant hatchet in his head.
00:23:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So I kind of do buy into that, that she's she's describing her mother dead.
00:23:35
Caroline
Yeah.
00:23:38
Caroline
She's described, yes.
00:23:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But she's, you know, she's transposing that into this must be the man.
00:23:45
Caroline
yeah
00:23:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim wound up telling detectives that he would ah come to the police department next day. This was after multiple interviews with him. And he said, look, I need to get home. I'll come back tomorrow.
00:23:58
Caroline
yeah
00:23:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But instead, he drove him and Sarah to Wisconsin to be with his family. And he just didn't talk with investigators in person for many, many years.
00:24:11
Caroline
Well, that's bad. You can't not do that. like can understand the desire.
00:24:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's like, I, you know.
00:24:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
you You can, you can, and you can't.
00:24:16
Caroline
Right.
00:24:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You're not, yeah, yeah I mean, it does not pass the sniff test.
00:24:24
Caroline
right
00:24:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But does it? I mean, if you're tired of being looked at as, you know, the husband must have done it, so we're going to wear it out.
00:24:33
Caroline
Yes. But at the same time, like in my mind, you would jump through whatever hoop it took, right, to stay with your daughter to get the crime solved.
00:24:44
Caroline
But it is tough because you, yeah, I mean, I'm sure he got the sense right away out the gate that they're going to, everyone's
00:24:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
they think it's made
00:24:54
Caroline
Well, right. Everyone's going to think it's me. i don't know what to do. And I just lost my wife. And, you know, all these other things are coming down on him. It's so funny because right now in my mind, he's like innocent. But at the same time, i like, I think you said this in the beginning, but there's just reasonable doubt here because it's bad that he didn't want to talk to investigators.
00:25:16
Caroline
It's relatable, but you can't actually choose that path without looking guilty.
00:25:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it is you really i mean you know Yes. I don't know that I would say never do that.
00:25:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know that I would never do that.
00:25:29
Caroline
Right.
00:25:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I really don't.
00:25:31
Caroline
I know.
00:25:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I really don't.
00:25:31
Caroline
It's true.
00:25:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I would want to get away from it as fast as I would want to run away from the fact of my wife being dead with an ax in her head, whether I did it or not.
00:25:36
Caroline
Oh.
00:25:41
Caroline
Right. right
00:25:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I would go on the run.
00:25:42
Caroline
There you go. Yes.
00:25:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, there was at the crime scene some look of maybe an intruder who was starting out as a burglar, but decided to kill Kathy in her bed with the family axe.
00:26:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But those, you know, like so there was a tea set that was silver, that was worth a lot of money, that was sitting on the floor, very neatly, you know, placed.
00:26:15
Caroline
oh
00:26:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And were they going to take that and then you know, go co cash it in But there was $41 sitting on ah table.
00:26:27
Caroline
Right.
00:26:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um Probably grocery money or something.
00:26:30
Caroline
Yeah.
00:26:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um So police are thinking, well, you know what they're thinking. Anyway, the you know, what police always think about a burglary gone wrong.
00:26:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:26:45
Caroline
Yeah.
00:26:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Burglars don't ah kill.
00:26:50
Caroline
They don't.
00:26:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They run if somebody is in the house.
00:26:52
Caroline
Yeah. yeah
00:26:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um But that's not always true.
00:26:57
Caroline
Sometimes there can be accidents.
00:26:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's not always true.
00:26:59
Caroline
I'm not going to put it past that that. There can be moments where they choose something they didn't didn't want to choose, right? and Fire a gun that they brought or throw an axe maybe or I don't know.
00:27:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, this was one of the reasons that they thought that maybe Jim had done it, but another reason would be that Burglars don't come in the house looking for tools that the homeowner might have to kill a homeowner who's home.
00:27:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But on the other side, what about an unknown intruder who came in to kill her?
00:27:33
Caroline
Right.
00:27:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i don't i couldn't find anything about her. who Where did she go? who was this person?
00:27:39
Caroline
Right.
00:27:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Kathy? Maybe she had it. I don't just don't know.
00:27:43
Caroline
Well, and let's be real, in the 60s, 70s, and 80s, that was the serial killer spree. i mean, that was a time to be a serial killer in America. I mean, you know, you just, we don't know half of what these killers that we ended up catching in the 80s and 90s really did to people.
00:28:01
Caroline
I mean, we don't know how many of victims that some of them have. So, yeah.
00:28:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
True. So Jim and Sarah Kursenek moved out west to the Seattle area after they mourned with their family in Michigan. Eventually, he would be selected as a top executive for Weyerhaeuser.
00:28:18
Caroline
Oh, good gig.
00:28:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, he lived in Seattle for a while, and then he moved to Gig Harbor. And listeners, Gig Harbor is a beautiful place on the Puget Sound.
00:28:23
Caroline
Oh, nice.
00:28:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He would briefly wed twice more before marrying his current wife, Sharon. Now, you know, you might say, oh, you know, he he likes to marry and then get rid of his wife.
00:28:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, i can see a young man with a three-and-a-half-year-old child being fixed up with dates all the time by well-meaning friends at work, and I can see him just wanting to reclaim that happiness and
00:28:48
Caroline
Right.
00:28:53
Caroline
Oh yeah.
00:29:01
Caroline
Yeah.
00:29:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That he had with Kathy and then he got married and you're not Kathy. OK, well, you're not Kathy either. So he divorced.
00:29:09
Caroline
but Yeah. Right.
00:29:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So I put absolutely no stock in that.
00:29:15
Caroline
i agree.
00:29:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
None that he see he's a philanderer or whatever, because no, no, I don't think so.
00:29:15
Caroline
i
00:29:20
Caroline
some men embrace the fact, now I don't want to stereotype because I'm sure there are women like this too, but I think that some men recognize their defaults as domestic, you know, responsible human beings.
00:29:33
Caroline
They can be dirty, gross pigs and there's just some stuff they don't want to do Marriage is still, in addition to love, it is still a partnership for other things too. Support in the hard parts of adulting, you know, it really is. It's like,
00:29:46
Caroline
Let's share some of these responsibilities because I'm not good at all these things and you seem to be, but you're, you know, maybe you're not good at all these things. I'm great at those. That's,
00:29:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It could be that, and and, you know, there is actually statistically, I'm a widow, so I know a lot of widow statistics. and um and what one of the things that I learned in my journey after Ted died was that women don't always remarry, but men usually do.
00:30:17
Caroline
Because they need the help.
00:30:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:30:21
Caroline
Sorry.
00:30:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So anyway, Jim saw a friend one day after his second divorce. he he's he's He saw a friend from childhood, her name Sharon James.
00:30:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This was 1997. So this is like 16 years after the murder, I think, maybe more.
00:30:40
Caroline
Wow.
00:30:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
While Jim Krasnick was attending a work-related trade show, he recognized and said hello two ah Sharon James, an old friend.
00:30:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The two ah really liked each other as friends way back. And they started dating and they dated for two years and then they got married.
00:31:10
Caroline
And there you
00:31:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
and in two thousand And 2014, there was a break in the Kathy case, um but it didn't pan out. And here was the here was the break.
00:31:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Before dying from ALS, otherwise known as Lou Gehrig's disease, a vicious, vicious disease that will take your life, Edward Larrabee, a career criminal who had been locked up on charges of attempted murder, robbery, and sexual abuse, wrote a confession claiming he killed Kathy Kursnick.
00:31:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This was like a deathbed confession for him. ah You know, I want to confess to everything before I meet my maker. So you would think it would be taken seriously.
00:32:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But authorities said that Larrabee's confession was riddled with errors that didn't match up to the facts of the case. Larrabee mischaracterized Kathy as brunette, heavyset,
00:32:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He said he sexually assaulted her and then killed her. But investigators at the scene he found no evidence of sexual abuse. Due to these inconsistencies about her appearance and the sexual abuse, prosecutors and other authorities just did not take any action at all with this man.
00:32:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Let him die ah without saying, know, let's have another talk.
00:32:46
Caroline
Yeah.
00:32:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
After a few, yeah you know, let me just put it this way. I have a few issues with that.
00:32:53
Caroline
yeah
00:32:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I do. First of all, I have a pet peeve, which is no evidence of sexual abuse does not mean there was no sexual abuse.
00:33:02
Caroline
That's right. Yeah. That's an excellent point.
00:33:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Sexual abuse can mean touching or posing or photographing a victim. So just because you did not leave your semen, just because you did not rip her clothes off, does not mean that there was no sexual nature or even motive to the crime.
00:33:17
Caroline
Right.
00:33:20
Caroline
That's right. Right.
00:33:28
Caroline
right
00:33:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And as far as her being chubby and brunette instead of slender and blonde, memories can fade about details as to hair color and stature. Why would a deathbed confession be made up?
00:33:45
Caroline
Well, not only that, but it was dark. Even the daughter, i know she's three, but she also figures in the dark night. So, ah ah ah you know, what if Kathy wore a hair thing up in the, you know, making her hair look darker than it was? i mean, there's a lot of reasons why these are superficially, is superficial errors that, like you said, they should have been so run down.
00:34:06
Caroline
Like he should have said, okay, well, when you say sexual assault, go into detail. What do you mean by that? And like, you know what I mean? Start matching up in the grain, in the weeds details about it because I'm with you. He's just, he, this person is confessing something they know they did, right?
00:34:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think in, yes, and i think that in I think that in true crime, you're supposed to run these clues down until you get to a full stop.
00:34:21
Caroline
They were there.
00:34:31
Caroline
Yeah.
00:34:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But I will say this, even though they did not believe this confession of the investigators, and of course, there's going to be a new crop of investigators every five to seven, 10 years.
00:34:42
Caroline
Right.
00:34:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So there's been many investigators looking at this.
00:34:42
Caroline
Yeah.
00:34:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But the current investigators at that point ah did decide, you know, we took the file out of the drawer, you know, about
Reopening the Case: New Investigations
00:34:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
her death. Maybe we should get the FBI involved because this is a very, very, very cold case.
00:35:04
Caroline
yeah
00:35:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, by then it was almost 40 years. Four zeroes.
00:35:08
Caroline
That's lot. That's like a lot, especially if you're still watching Jim and you're watching what he's doing. I mean, if he's not, I don't know. I guess that doesn't really mean anything, but yeah.
00:35:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, he's at top of the heap as far as, you know, Weyerhaeuser concerned. he's concerned
00:35:23
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Not the CEO, but he's the, you know, again, he's in finance. So you know that he has a lot of respect and he has a good reputation as a um executive manager for ah very large corporation.
00:35:29
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
For those who don't know, Weyerhaeuser is into timber and wood.
00:35:42
Caroline
Don't you feel like it?
00:35:46
Caroline
Yeah, exactly. Well, and don't you think like, wouldn't something happen? Like, wouldn't he do something like a misstep? I mean, I guess I'm thinking of serial killers who have like some urge they can't resist, whereas he may have, if Jim did this and he's not innocent, part of me would have to think it was some kind of an accident or non-intended event that happened.
00:36:08
Caroline
And so he's not a murderer. like I don't know, because I just feel like 40 years is so long for you not to slip up, quote unquote, and reveal past associations with this crime.
00:36:21
Caroline
I don't know.
00:36:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, I mean, you know, he was a very young man when this happened. Not very young, but he was, a he was you know, 30, young 30-something.
00:36:28
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:36:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He had been driving himself very hard to get his almost PhD.
00:36:34
Caroline
Yes.
00:36:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um I mean, he did all the work except for, like, mailing the letter.
00:36:40
Caroline
He did.
00:36:43
Caroline
That part, it's so frustrating. All the details are so superficially frustrating in this case.
00:36:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, you know, I can sort of imagine somebody having an impulse, screw that college. I've got a PhD as far as I'm concerned.
00:37:00
Caroline
my gosh, yes.
00:37:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know what I'm saying?
00:37:05
Caroline
100%, I know what you're saying. That's a very American style. Whatever, dude. I dare you.
00:37:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, you betcha.
00:37:09
Caroline
Come look at
00:37:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You betcha. And he's out west now, so, you know, he's he fits right in. That, like, you know, don't tell me and don't have a PhD.
00:37:18
Caroline
It's 99 points.
00:37:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So maybe...
00:37:20
Caroline
Said, done.
00:37:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
the Maybe Jim Kruisnick, I don't know, but maybe Jim Kruisnick, you know, at that time in his life when his wife was murdered, did he have an impulse control problem?
00:37:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know, but it's possible that he murdered her. There are some clues about, you know, who comes in a house and then uses the householder.
00:37:39
Caroline
Right.
00:37:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Somebody is intent on murdering, going bring their own tool kit.
00:37:45
Caroline
Right.
00:37:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But anyway, again, we just don't know enough about Kathy and her associates to know if maybe it was somebody else. But they were, you know, these current, you know, somewhat quasi-modern, you know, investigators are saying, let's get the FBI in here. So in June of 2015, then Police Chief Henderson and then Captain Cathaldi attended a meeting of the FBI Buffalo cold case group.
00:38:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now that's a mouthful. But in other words, you know, back in Brighton, there are, you there are these investigators saying, hey, FBI has a cold case group.
00:38:23
Caroline
Yeah.
00:38:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They invite people in. Let's go. And they they went to the cold case group and they presented Chris Nick case to the group. and after a question and answer period in which several ideas on how to proceed were discussed, the entire case file was given to the FBI to be digitized.
00:38:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now when I read that I thought, oh, so all they got out of it was you're going to put all of the handwritten notes into a Xerox machine and then, you know, turn it into like a disk, that's it, that's all you're doing.
00:39:05
Caroline
Yeah, like a PDF.
00:39:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, ah you know, after some research, I realized that that may not seem powerful to you, Bridget, but it probably was, you know, one of the best things they could do because now they're gathering up all the reports over many years, all the evidence over many years, including that false what they consider to be a false confession.
00:39:20
Caroline
yeah
00:39:31
Caroline
Yep.
00:39:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Anyone interested in law enforcement on the case, such as FBI, profilers, ah even Internet sleuths, which there are millions of them now, can get the case and digest it very quickly.
00:39:40
Caroline
That's it, yeah. Right.
00:39:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So I was wrong about thinking that was a consolation prize.
00:39:50
Caroline
right
00:39:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That was actually a big deal. It was a big deal.
00:39:53
Caroline
Yeah, because I mean, that's if you look at the 70s, and a lot, we can look back now and recognize that half of the reason we were not catching these folks was because of the lack of inability to share information at a rapid pace, like an in the moment pace, which is where we're at now.
00:40:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, people today know from watching TV about CODIS. People today know about the databases of serial killers, caught and not caught.
00:40:19
Caroline
Yeah.
00:40:23
Caroline
Heck yeah.
00:40:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And those things have to be digitized from ancient documents.
00:40:31
Caroline
Totally.
00:40:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Some of them are hard to find. Some courthouses burn down. I mean, it's just it's its just a big deal.
00:40:36
Caroline
Right. It's true. Yeah.
00:40:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So it was powerful. Chief Henderson contacted Kathy Krishnick's family to let them know the new status of the case. I think the message was just went from cold to warm and maybe now even hot.
00:40:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um Because probably the FBI was like everybody else saying, you know, these were his tools and, you know, this was his home.
00:41:03
Caroline
there is like, it's like there's no, not enough exculpatory evidence or whatever.
00:41:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right, right.
00:41:08
Caroline
So they're like, let's just nab him.
00:41:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, in April of 2016, investigators interviewed Jim Krosnick again. Brighton, New York investigators Mark Lebitore and Stephen Hunt paid Jim Krosnick a surprise visit at his home in Gig Harbor, Washington for an interview. Knock, knock. Who's there?
00:41:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Your past. During the interview, Detective Liberatore asked Khrusnick outright if he had something to do with his wife's death, and Khrusnick told him he did not kill Kathy.
00:41:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Liberatore said, well, I disagree. I think you did.
00:41:51
Caroline
Dang.
00:41:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i mean, i guess one of the strategies here is they were thinking, let's rattle him. And maybe he will say something or do something to help the case.
00:42:03
Caroline
Yeah.
00:42:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And a lot of times that does help because that person, as soon as the police are gone, they ring up, you know, ah their lawyer or, well, you're not going to be able to listen to that conversation.
00:42:10
Caroline
Yeah.
00:42:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But how about a close personal friend or family member?
00:42:16
Caroline
Old friend. Yeah. Or they go out to the shed where they left the memento, right? Or whatever it is. like's That's why I'm saying like 40 years you're watching this guy. Not one step that made you go, I knew it.
00:42:28
Caroline
You know? I don't know.
00:42:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right, right.
00:42:32
Caroline
Yeah.
00:42:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
2018, prosecutors turned to forensic pathologist Dr. Michael Bodden, who has been, you know, this is a famous man. he's Everybody knows who he is.
00:42:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He was hired to, he's like a whoho who's who of whodunits cases.
00:42:50
Caroline
o
00:42:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, he worked on the assassination of JFK. He worked on the case of Jeffrey Epstein.
00:42:59
Caroline
the
00:43:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, I mean, I don't think he's actually human because how do you live that long but and do this work?
00:43:05
Caroline
Right.
00:43:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He has done 20,000 autopsies.
00:43:13
Caroline
Wow. Wow.
00:43:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And a lot of times he will become an autopsy consultant or
00:43:21
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:43:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
by reading the other autopsy results, like the the na the case notes, look at photographs, things like that.
00:43:25
Caroline
yeah
00:43:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So he does work on cold cases a lot, and he's very popular with a lot of people in true crime.
00:43:31
Caroline
yeah
00:43:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um he over the years, he has raised a lot of eyebrows and generated a lot of controversy among people and ah You know, all I can say is that the um Dr. Bodden was brought in and the office the investigators were seeking another opinion on the time of day that Kathy Krusnick could have been killed.
00:44:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um So they asked him and the former New York City medical examiner, Michael Bodden, they asked him to review the evidence And in 2019, in October, Dr. Baden reported his findings. So he looked at all the records.
00:44:28
Caroline
yeah
00:44:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He looked at everything. He didn't exhume the body, which he often does.
00:44:34
Caroline
oh wow
00:44:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um But he looked at, you know, everything. And in his report, he wrote to the investigators after reviewing the Monroe County autopsy toxicology reports,
00:44:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The scenes, autopsy photograph, the police reports, Dr. Bodden stated that it appeared that Kathy died around 3.30 a.m.
00:45:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Prosecutors believe that means that Jim Kresnek would have been home during the time that she was killed. Now, he left home in the morning at 6.30 a.m.,
00:45:13
Caroline
He said 630.
00:45:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
a m
00:45:15
Caroline
So.
00:45:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
to get to his job with Kodak.
00:45:19
Caroline
Yeah.
00:45:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He came home at 5.30 and saw what he saw and then found his wife and picked up his daughter and went to the neighbor.
00:45:27
Caroline
Yeah.
00:45:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, you know,
00:45:31
Caroline
The daughter was in the house for like 10 hours with this dead mother. Is that what I'm hearing?
00:45:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yes, yes.
00:45:38
Caroline
Jesus.
00:45:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yes
00:45:39
Caroline
Jesus.
00:45:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Jim Crossneck was indicted on November 1st, 2019. He voluntarily surrendered to authorities a week later.
00:45:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, bear in mind, Caroline, this is the only new thing they have.
00:46:00
Caroline
And time, I'm sorry, but like we still consider that like a little a little akin to the lie detector test, right? Like there's a fallibility to that science. It's a 70% accuracy versus 99% that we get with like DNA or you know other things like that, right?
00:46:16
Caroline
I mean, 330, between 330 and 630 is a negligible amount that no one can precisely say, right?
00:46:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, and yeah.
00:46:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, what's so interesting is that, um ah without getting it too into the weeds of it, but a lot of controversy has been around Dr.
00:46:23
Caroline
Yeah.
00:46:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Bodden's formula for deciding time of death in this case, because what is not known is the First of all, Kathy was under a an electric blanket when she was murdered.
00:46:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But investigators made no note of whether or not the electric blanket was plugged in, whether or not ah had she had turned it off.
00:47:00
Caroline
Oh, who's on? Yeah. Right?
00:47:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
None of those clues were available. But she some point out that someone dying... ah ah who is under an electric blanket can take longer or shorter amount of time to digest food, different things happening with the blood and all that kind of stuff.
00:47:18
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So that was, he he assumed in his investigation, Baden did, he assumed that there was a variation on the, on the,
00:47:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
the mathematics of how you get to what time she died based on she was under an electric blanket, but we don't factually know that.
00:47:46
Caroline
But we don't actually know that. Oh, what a travesty. Because regardless of the truth, this is a clearly flawed formula.
00:47:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think so.
00:47:56
Caroline
Like, I mean, you we can't know. And like you just said, there are too many variables, which is why but what we do know about the science of trying to determine death is it's fallible.
00:48:09
Caroline
it's There is a six-hour window on either side where we could be wrong.
00:48:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's a, it's a, it's... Yes. So he was indicted. Jim Krosnick was indicted because of this new evidence.
Indictment and Aftermath
00:48:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The grand jury indictment was signed on November 1, and a week later Krosnick surrendered to authorities in the Hall of Justice in rochesterter u Rochester, New York. He was then 67 years old, and he pleaded not guilty.
00:48:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In September, Jim Krosnick stood trial for the 1982 murder of his first wife, Kathy. Forty years after Kathy Krosnick was killed in her sleep, her husband, Jim Krosnick, was standing trial for her murder. It was explosive.
00:48:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Given that he has been a stellar leader, citizen, and has a happy retirement thing going on Gig Harbor, which is what I would love to do, it's too expensive, that is just so shocking to me.
00:49:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It is so shocking to me.
00:49:04
Caroline
It is. Given the though little that they're basing this on. It's not like they found the fingerprints. It's not like they found picture of him doing this. Like, I mean, this is just no more concrete than any the other details.
00:49:22
Caroline
Ugh.
00:49:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, you know, in Monroe County, the district attorney's office and the district attorney, him or herself, has a lot of authority and has a lot of, they you're going to love her or you're going to hate him.
00:49:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, you know, people really feel like they can trust their district attorney or not trust their district attorney, depending on, you know, society's thoughts about that.
00:49:42
Caroline
Yeah. Right.
00:49:44
Caroline
right
00:49:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And Monroe County no different. And one of the first things she said during her opening statement, and she said it multiple times, I have absolutely no doubt that Jim Krosnick killed Kathy that day.
00:50:05
Caroline
She said it just like that because she knew that there was reasonable doubt.
00:50:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now you get to say stuff like that. Yeah. Absolutely.
00:50:09
Caroline
So you have to formulate the sentence in the brain for the jurors to in order for them to squash that thought. And what it is is to say absolutely no doubt, absolutely no doubt, at least three times in the trial.
00:50:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Absolutely.
00:50:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, I saw i saw um Jim's attorney named Bill Easton ah said you know saying his client was innocent.
00:50:23
Caroline
horrible
00:50:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He told 48 Hours, which I watched on this case, I think it was called the Brighton Axe Murder. um You know, no cinema there. But anyway, um he said there was no evidence that Jim Kruznik killed his wife.
00:50:54
Caroline
That's what saying.
00:50:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, this trial happened just, this trial just happened in 2022, Caroline.
00:50:54
Caroline
No fingerprints on the weapon.
00:50:59
Caroline
Wow.
00:51:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah A crime scene photo shows a pair of boot, pardon me, boat shoes, like her husband's. um He was known to wear boat shoes.
00:51:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Those were his favorite boat shoes.
00:51:15
Caroline
What's a boat shoe?
00:51:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Boat shoes are his favorite, so everybody knew that.
00:51:18
Caroline
Is that like a Hugh Hefner slipper? i mean, what's a boat shoe?
00:51:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Moccasin, type of moccasin.
00:51:22
Caroline
Oh, a Moxie. Okay.
00:51:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah But, yeah, it's kind of um a rubber-soled moccasin kind of thing.
00:51:29
Caroline
Okay.
00:51:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Kathy Kruisnick's death scene photographs show this pair of boat shoes next to the bed. Well, yeah, he's her husband.
00:51:42
Caroline
So what? Okay.
00:51:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
up ah But they were never tested, Caroline.
00:51:50
Caroline
Yeah.
00:51:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Never tested for anything. Later detectives, ah when way back 40 years later, ah or going back 40 years, from detectives did determine that there was a faint shoe print in the garbage bag that was made by Boat Shoes.
00:52:00
Caroline
yeah
00:52:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, okay, I'm conflating two things. 40 years ago, they took foot they took photographs of the death scene.
00:52:20
Caroline
Yeah.
00:52:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
there were boat shoes by the bed.
00:52:22
Caroline
Okay.
00:52:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Forty years later, when they were re-examining the evidence, investigators said that they believe that a faint shoe print found on the inside of a black garbage bag matched boat shoes.
00:52:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:52:41
Caroline
Hmm.
00:52:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So...
00:52:42
Caroline
You're stepping on the inside of a garbage bag. What's that about?
00:52:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, I would step on the inside of a garbage bag if I was trying to hold it open while I shoved things in.
00:52:57
Caroline
o Okay. Yeah.
00:52:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
you know
00:53:00
Caroline
There you go. Like in a robbery kind of a deal.
00:53:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:53:05
Caroline
Okay. Okay.
00:53:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Good point. Prosecutors called the expert. They called as a witness. ah The expert that decided these were boat shoe prints, he testified that the footprint found inside the trash bit oh bag was from a special footwear called a boat shoe.
00:53:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they matched, you know, it looked to them like it could be the ones seen in the 1982 crime scene photographs of the bedroom. But again, the shoes that Krasnick wore back then were not tested to see if they were a match to that.
00:53:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Jim Krasnick's lawyers say investigators have the wrong theory and the wrong man. And, you know, I'm on sort of their side and also the prosecutor's side. I just don't know.
00:53:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But Jim Krasnick's daughter, Sarah, now in middle age and supporting her dad every day, I mean, you know, this little girl, she was three and a half when her mother was killed.
00:54:06
Caroline
I was going to say, she's...
00:54:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She's 44 now. She attended the trial to support her father. And she had the same thought is, how do you know this is, you you didn't gather these shoes up there, not in the evidence room.
00:54:18
Caroline
There's no evidence. That's what I was...
00:54:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No.
00:54:21
Caroline
Yeah, they are they're basing new claims off old evidence they wish they would gathered.
00:54:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i would, I call this selling it to the jury.
00:54:32
Caroline
Yep.
00:54:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they may be right about Jim Krosnick, but they they don't have a case, and in my opinion.
00:54:37
Caroline
Well, like you said, there is reasonable doubt. And in this country for a criminal conviction, you got to have beyond the reasonable doubt. There can be no reasonable doubt. This is eat up with reasonable doubt.
00:54:51
Caroline
It doesn't matter.
00:54:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. there's There's no reasonable doubt that this case did not have reasonable doubt. That's the way I look at it.
00:55:00
Caroline
There you go.
00:55:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Okay, so
00:55:02
Caroline
The only thing there's no reasonable doubt about.
00:55:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
as
00:55:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
on September 26, 2022, Jim Krosnick was led away in handcuffs after he was found guilty for the 1982 murder of Kathy Krosnick in Brighton, New York.
00:55:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
By that time, he was 71, and
00:55:23
Caroline
Jeez. gee
00:55:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
A jury found Krosnick guilty of second-degree murder on his first wife of his first wife, Kathy, and deputies immediately took him into custody.
00:55:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then on November 7, 2022, Jim Krosnick was sentenced. Sarah and Jim Krosnick read their statements in court ahead of Jim's sentencing.
00:55:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
During the sentencing Sarah, the little girl left in the house at the time her mother of her mother's murder, read a statement in which she expressed her disappointment in the verdict.
00:56:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Quote, my mother's killer got away with her murder and my father's life has been taken by a failed justice system that convicted him of a crime he did not commit, she said.
00:56:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In his statement before sentencing Jim Krasnick, 71, spoke to the court for the first time. Krasnick read a note in which he reaffirmed his love for Kathy and his innocence.
00:56:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This is his complete statement. In closing, I did not murder Kathy. I loved Kathy with all of my heart and with all of my soul, he said.
00:56:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The judge sentenced Krasnick to 25 prison. Now, while Krasnick was found guilty by a jury, his supporters, which were many, many supporters, including his daughter, Sarah, his wife, Sharon, his immediate family, and, you know, people who know him, lot of people who knew him, they were sure of his innocence and that he did not commit this crime,
00:57:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he was convicted of a crime he did not come commit. i mean, period.
00:57:22
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In her statement at court, Sharon Kruisnick said that they plan to appeal. and Remember, Sharon is his wife. They plan to appeal the jury's guilty verdict so that justice can truly and honestly be served.
00:57:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And yeah so they're moving forward. They're going to, you know, they're going to contest this.
00:57:43
Caroline
yeah
00:57:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This is going to be, they're going to,
00:57:46
Caroline
Yes, they should. On its face.
00:57:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:57:48
Caroline
Not enough evidence. to This is just all circumstantial. It's just it doesn't meet any of the guidelines for criminal court standards. and And I'm not even lawyer and I can see that.
00:58:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:58:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In one more twist, Caroline, just six months after his sentencing, Jim Krasnick died of cancer in prison.
00:58:13
Caroline
Dang.
00:58:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
When that happened, the state of New York nullified his conviction. There could be no appeal.
00:58:21
Caroline
wait
00:58:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There could be no appeal now. So theoretically, in the law of New York, kate the case has not yet been fully adjudicated.
00:58:33
Caroline
Oh my gosh. So that's a thing. Like in New York, if you die in the middle of a thing, they'll just say, okay, well you were in it. We'll call you innocent and just say it was never adjudicated. Like that's the outcome.
00:58:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, we're not going to call you innocent.
00:58:46
Caroline
Oh.
00:58:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
We're going to remove, we're gonna we're going you're still still a suspect, but there's nothing we can do about that.
00:58:50
Caroline
Oh. Okay. Which is better than being a convicted.
00:58:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You're not, with and the the the murder con conviction was overturned, but not,
00:58:58
Caroline
Yeah. Is that some twisted old historic way of trying to get people to off themselves while in jail? That seems like a weird rule.
00:59:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:59:11
Caroline
i don't know, New York. I um ah see you. i see you.
00:59:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Don't get murdered in New York if you want justice.
00:59:19
Caroline
Well, that's what I just, that's weird.
00:59:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, or don't be a murderer in New York, ah period, full stop.
00:59:22
Caroline
It's weird loophole.
00:59:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But anyway, Jim was planning an appeal, and he had a lot of supporters among family and friends and people who knew him over the years. And as someone very removed very far removed from this case, in just just researched it to make this podcast with you. I cannot say that I think he did it, and I cannot say that I think he did not do it.
00:59:52
Caroline
Yeah.
00:59:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't see how reasonable doubt was overtaken by the by this jury. i don't I don't know how that happened.
00:59:57
Caroline
It's, yeah. Yeah,
01:00:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He probably did it.
01:00:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Doesn't cut through the barrier, in my opinion.
01:00:07
Caroline
yeah I agree.
01:00:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
We're not supposed to be convicted if we probably are guilty.
01:00:12
Caroline
Nope.
01:00:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
we have to be guilty We have to be found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
01:00:18
Caroline
That's right.
01:00:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't think he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
01:00:23
Caroline
I don't either. There's nothing but reasonable doubt here. Now, does that mean that I think he didn't do it? Absolutely not. Like you just said, I don't have enough evidence. Yeah.
01:00:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I want to go back to New York and how they reversed his conviction. I don't know if it's something that the Court of Appeals or the state ah attorney general has the ability to do or whether it is required to be done.
01:00:55
Caroline
Yeah, right, right.
01:00:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know. I'm not familiar enough with ah New York laws and I you know, this podcast is more about what was going on in this family.
01:01:09
Caroline
Yep, yeah.
01:01:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
As far as I can tell, based on how his standing in humanity, according to many, many, many, many many many people,
01:01:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah he was could did not, could not, and is innocent of this murder. However, Maybe the people who knew him way back 40 years ago, many of whom are going to be deceased, maybe they thought he did it.
01:01:41
Caroline
Yeah.
01:01:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Maybe there was a general feeling that he ah did it. But I don't think so because I don't think you can be, you know, the stay on at Kodak.
01:01:56
Caroline
Yeah.
01:01:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They're not, they're very hesitant to fire you even though you, you know, exaggerated ah about your PhD and you took a PhD required job at the college and you lied to So, you know, I don't know, but based on the support that he had and the love that he had, do I think that it's possible that he ah had an explosive moment with his wife and he killed her ah before he went to work that day?
01:02:03
Caroline
Yeah.
01:02:08
Caroline
yeah
01:02:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um maybe
01:02:32
Caroline
I just, I think about the neighbors receiving him in this post found my wife's phase, which can someone really fake that?
01:02:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Maybe.
01:02:44
Caroline
I don't think so. That's where I'm like, I don't think just because.
01:02:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Some people think that his wife was pissed off about the the ah fake PhD, the lies about the PhD and the shame when that became public and all of that.
01:02:54
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
01:03:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, please.
01:03:02
Caroline
Yeah.
01:03:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't think there was any shame over losing his job at Kodak if he would have.
01:03:05
Caroline
I don't either.
01:03:09
Caroline
Right. That's the thing.
01:03:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He still didn't know whether he was going to lose his job or not.
01:03:13
Caroline
I think it's like what you said. It was just, this is just the, this the persona lot of people in the, ah in the process of attaining American dream are going to have. Whatever. I got it. 99.9% done. We're done. I'm moving on.
01:03:25
Caroline
I have that.
01:03:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
aye
01:03:26
Caroline
You know?
01:03:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i think he i mean you know i I think at the time he could have said, if somebody said, you know, why did you lie on your...
01:03:26
Caroline
Yeah.
01:03:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, man, i did I exaggerated about finalizing my status because I was eager to get back to work and support my family.
01:03:42
Caroline
That's that and that's the truth, right? It's so funny because the the the truth that we find embarrassing because it's so simple is actually the most reasonable explanation people are willing to accept. Because I say it at my work all the time. I make mistakes and then I have to tell them I made a mistake.
01:03:58
Caroline
This is what happened. And the reception I get is just so overwhelmingly positive. So it's true. He should have just said, oh my God, i' and i'm in I'm an idiot. I'm a pompous idiot who just thought I could get away with not having to do this final detail. I just wanted to get to work and here I am, you know, but I'll make that my priority to finish that up. That is the right adult way to do that, right?
01:04:21
Caroline
Yeah.
01:04:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, Caroline, to to wrap this up, I can't understand how the jury found him guilty, except maybe they had stars in their eyes over Dr. Biden.
01:04:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's a big star, and they gave it to him.
01:04:38
Caroline
Yeah. I think so too.
01:04:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's what I think.
01:04:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, that wraps it up, Caroline. Our research is solely based on public documents, including legal documents, articles, and books about our subject.
01:04:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Episodes are aired every other week. Please tell your friends to join us and give us a review and subscribe. That helps new listeners find us. And thank you, listeners, for joining us.
01:05:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
We really appreciate you. And one other thing. Don't forget. to live and let live. Bye-bye, Caroline.
01:05:20
Caroline
Bye-bye.