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Chandler Halderson : In Cold Blood
82 Plays2 months ago
A well loved family is dessimated by a son they loved and nurtured. They were just beginning to uncover all of his lies and they wanted to help him get things straightened out. Our killer today was too busy creating his next round of lies and worse. He was ready to kill in order to cover his deceits.
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Hearth Home and Homicide'
00:00:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Hello listeners, I'm Bridget.
00:00:03
Caroline
and I'm Caroline.
00:00:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You're listening to Hearth Home and Homicide, a family production, including a bunch of dogs, so you might hear them bark, and we talk about family murders, and sometimes those barking dogs react.
00:00:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Anyway, Caroline and I narrate each story, and Andy is our producer. As Caroline and I talk about each family murder, We want to watch justice unfold for the killer, whatever that may look like. You know, the ripple effect of family murders never ends for the survivors, for the family and the friends of the victims. And so we we always keep that in mind. Our podcasts do include violence and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.
The Halderson Family Background
00:00:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Caroline, today we're going to be talking about
00:00:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Chandler Halderson, who, I don't know, maybe he had a God complex. we When we talk about these cases, that's one of the things that came up as a possible theory.
00:01:09
Caroline
Yeah.
00:01:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So anyway, in today's episode, we're we have a harrowing and gruesome murder of two lovely people, parents of maybe a kind of helicopter set of parents living in Wisconsin, keeping a keen eye on their two boys,
00:01:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Chandler and Mitchell. The parents' names are Bart and Krista Halderson. Very involved parents, beloved members of their little community near Madison, Wisconsin.
00:01:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And their little town was called, or maybe they call it up ah ah bur a of, I don't know what they call it.
00:01:47
Caroline
A village, I think.
00:01:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's Windsor, Wisconsin, but village, village, that, yeah.
00:01:49
Caroline
I think it's called a village. We got a lot of townships, towns, villages, hamlets.
00:01:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
00:01:54
Caroline
I think we got some hamlets. I don't know.
00:01:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah So anyway, they're cozy. Bart was 50, hey, life is getting good now, and worked as a certified accountant while Krista was 53, again, a great age, working as an admin assistant for an automotive company.
00:02:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They had met and married while working as young people in an automotive repair business. And they both grew their skills, sought higher education. Both of them wound up graduating from the prestigious University of Michigan and did very well for themselves. I've been at the University of Michigan and it's a cool place to be. I didn't go there as a matriculating student, but I went for some professional stuff and ah conferences and classes and things like that. They're very, very good.
00:02:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They were always volunteering, this couple was, and helping people in their community. They were loved. And you know when things were not going, there were suspicions by this community very early on in this case, which enabled, I think, the satisfactory ending to our killer today. Everyone saw the Haldresons as an ideal couple and family.
00:03:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
who had everything figured out. The oldest child, Mitchell, was a go-getter. He was active. He was sociable. The youngest, by just 15 months, Chandler, was more sensitive and quiet. And as we said, you know those parents are certified helicopter parents, meaning that they kept very close tabs on their children's every activity.
00:03:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
up And some thought too much, but you know hey, parents out there, according to me, you do need to stay in kind of a private hover mode.
00:03:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Don't get caught, especially when they get in their late teens and 20s.
00:04:02
Caroline
Yeah.
00:04:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Try not to be detected, but you got to keep plugged into your young people.
00:04:05
Caroline
I
00:04:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's what I think. So I don't i don't i didn't have a problem on them being called helicopter parents.
00:04:09
Caroline
agree. yeah
00:04:13
Caroline
You got to be present.
00:04:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Absolutely.
00:04:15
Caroline
I mean, what what other machinery would you fly around in? I mean, it doesn and I don't think helicopter is pejorative, though it has become pejorative, but i I agree with you. I think you have to be present and available,
Chandler's Deceptive Life
00:04:26
Caroline
you know?
00:04:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And sneaky, too. No, just kidding.
00:04:28
Caroline
And super sneaky, because they don't want your presence or availability until they need it.
00:04:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No. Yeah. Right, right, right. At the time of their murder, they were letting loose of those reins a bit. Mitchell was 24 and working in high tech, making good money. He was launched. Chandler was 23, enrolled in college with an internship at an insurance company and a job with SpaceX when he graduated. But he was still living at home. So he wasn't what you could call launched yet, but he had a lot going for him. So why why why would Chandler Alderson murder his parents? Because that's who did it.
00:05:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He murdered his parents, he dismembered their bodies, and he got caught rather quickly, as I think, due to his outsized confidence in his own intelligence. Let's see if we can figure it out. So Chandler Halderson had a life of love, but also he made it into a life of lies. Chandler Halderson is one of those people who can only love one person his entire life.
00:05:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He can appear to love, but really everything he does is in service to himself. He can pretend to care. He can be romantic even, but alas, it is just mimicry. I think some people like there that. Some people like that are miserable and sad, hollow people. And I think some people like that are narcissistic and predatory and maybe they are impressed with all of their lives. Some, like Chandler, might be a smattering of both, but let me explain what I mean by that. When I say that, Chandler Michael Halderson was born in March 1998. He was a regular kiddo, except that he did seem to hurt easily, both physically and emotionally. Not long before he murdered his parents,
00:06:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
For example, when he was 21 years old, he hurt himself somehow and and insisted that he be taken to the hospital. So of course, his parents are going to take him to the hospital.
00:06:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He reported all the symptoms of a head injury to the doctors there. And he told them he was just he about to pass out. He can't see straight. Where am I?
00:07:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm dizzy. All of that.
00:07:03
Caroline
Yeah.
00:07:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And finally, he got them to give him an um MRI and some other tests. And one of those tests showed any physical cause to any of the symptoms he was reporting. But he insisted to the doctor that he at least give me a neck brace. I need a neck brace. So he got a neck brace. And he wore it right up until he decided to murder his parents. He told his parents and friends that he was told he may have a brain injury. He might have to have brain surgery. Oh my God.
00:07:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He also indicated that he was warned that his spinal column was seriously in danger of breaking away from his skull.
00:07:49
Caroline
I just don't think they they would let him drive away. If that were a genuine, I feel like they're going to say something about your ability to operate a large piece of machine.
00:07:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Very, very true. Very true.
00:08:02
Caroline
But maybe I'm wrong, because I am not an MD. I'm not a doctor. And I feel badly for doctors. This makes me feel bad for doctors in America, because we're harsh consumers. If you don't give me exactly what I want, it's problematic for you, not me. And so I could just see him going in there and doing this song and dance, getting an MRI, which is hard to do, and then demanding, OK, well, I'm not leaving empty handed. You give me an x-ray.
00:08:28
Caroline
that sounds very like american medical industry sorry yeah
00:08:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I know, you know, I go to thrift stores. I like thrift stores because it's a bit of a treasure hunt. And I live in a very small house, so it better damn well be a treasure for me to buy something. And anyway, the reason I bring up my habits of going to the thrift stores is that I have seen people buying some of the following. For example, crutches, braces,
00:08:59
Caroline
you
00:09:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
including neck braces. I've seen them coming out of there with ah breast augmentation ah kind of things where you pad your bras and things like that.
00:09:12
Caroline
Oh, okay.
00:09:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
you Like fake, fake, fake but boobs.
00:09:13
Caroline
I was going to get scared for a minute.
00:09:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:09:16
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:09:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So I mean, just, I'm just telling you, you want a neck brace. You don't have to fake it with the doctor.
00:09:21
Caroline
Yeah.
00:09:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Just go, go, go to the thrift store.
00:09:26
Caroline
yeah
00:09:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But anyway, he he went to the doctor. He thought he was dying of a brain serious crack in his entire body, but none of that was true. I don't think, do I think he probably got an eye roll at this moment from his parents? No, no, I think these were loving people and they never dreamed of, you know, contacting the doctor to verify what he'd been told.
00:09:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Or maybe they did do the eye roll. I don't know. If they had, the doctor would not have been able to share that information with them anyway because Chandler was 23.
00:10:02
Caroline
Exactly. But it does bring up an interesting, totally unrelated question for me about, because i'm I'm currently watching another documentary about a woman who like lied about having cancer and like, you know, people put on shells with medical stuff.
00:10:17
Caroline
And so it's difficult because you can't pry,
00:10:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah.
The Influence of Video Games on Chandler
00:10:20
Caroline
right? You can see the inequities in their story or the miss, you know, things aren't adding up, but you can't, it's such a social faux pas to,
00:10:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:10:30
Caroline
you know, question someone's medical assessment.
00:10:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yes.
00:10:33
Caroline
of
00:10:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um Well, I'll just put it this way. I worked in human resources for many, many, many years. Like, meant my life in human resources.
00:10:48
Caroline
The whole thing.
00:10:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Do I think that people fake serious maladies like cancer? Yes, I do.
00:10:55
Caroline
Yeah.
00:10:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I know for a fact that they do.
00:10:57
Caroline
Yeah.
00:10:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But do I think he probably got an eye roll from his parents? I don't know. I'll never know. ah Now, if that was his only non-truth or exaggeration, we wouldn't be talking about this killer.
00:11:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, that's not all he did.
00:11:12
Caroline
right nope
00:11:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And and we wouldn't be talking about the family because we we, our podcast is about what is going on with this killer inside this loving family. Because he was always lying about everything in his life.
00:11:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He was not really in school, Caroline. He was home playing video games all day and all night. Speaking of games, I listen i recently listened to Dr. Andrew Van Der Vart, MD, PhD, who runs a YouTube channel called True Crime and Psychiatry.
00:11:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, you have a podcast called True Crime and Psychiatry, and you're a psychiatrist. I am going to listen to you. I want to know what is going on with these people.
00:11:58
Caroline
true
00:12:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, he covered the Chandler-Haldison case. And in discussing the Chandler-Haldison case, he opined that when a brain is hooked into video games for many hours after day after day after day, something happens to the brain. He delved into some studies, producing some evidence that the brain will mistake real life for video games.
00:12:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And when the brain spends more time on video games than in real life, this psychiatrist was opining that it is likely in the Chandler-Halderson case that he had a brain malfunction thinking he could murder to solve an immediate problem and wake up the next day and think he can turn reality on and nothing of the murder will be real.
00:12:57
Caroline
Yeah, I totally see this being a very, yeah, like standard operating procedure for the brain, you know?
00:12:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
<unk> Yes.
00:13:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um maybe Maybe you can literally get so delusional ah between reality and you know life in the real world and life on screen that if you're spending more time on screen, you know that the next game, this character will be right back in there.
00:13:25
Caroline
Yeah, yeah, they like, respawn, I think is the term in the video game world, just respond. Yeah, this is well, and I equate this to like, 911.
00:13:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:13:36
Caroline
For me, I was like, very young, I think I was 20. And it came on, I saw it on the TV and 20 living in America on the west side. pretty delusional ah like delusions available to me if I wanted to say you know what I mean because I saw that on the TV I knew what was happening you had called me but it took several weeks for that to soak into me as a reality I kept having to remind myself that that was very real that wasn't you know what I mean because I'm living in America I watched movies but dada da so I totally lean into what he's saying here that the brain only is
00:14:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. Wasn't a TV show. Yeah.
00:14:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:14:16
Caroline
creating its reality based on what you're feeding it, you know?
00:14:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, I know. Speaking of feeding, you know, that breaking the habit, for example, of eating sugar is like a nightmare. You're getting all of these messages from the brain that you created with the sugar that you need more sugar.
00:14:26
Caroline
Yeah.
00:14:30
Caroline
Yes. 100%. That's a really good example because the the brain views sugar the same way it views cocaine. I don't know if people know that. Doesn't make a distinction between the two.
00:14:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I've never had cocaine, so I can't verify that. But I've had plenty of sugar. And you know and you know that was my drug of choice for many years, is i if I want to escape reality, we'll have it. I mean, hello, mirrors and Dairy Queen. So I have no credentials other than you know when I just said. It's interesting to me, though, that the story that I'm about to get into or we're about to talk about,
00:15:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it The idea that he really didn't know
Chandler's Lies Unravel
00:15:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that you could murder somebody and then they would come back, that does seem a little far fetched, but maybe it's not.
00:15:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I do believe that if you spend time in non-reality, it is likely your brain is eventually going to run on ideas that are not real.
00:15:28
Caroline
Yes.
00:15:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And that happens, I mean, you know, all the time and in every country, I mean, you know, there's,
00:15:32
Caroline
All the time. All the time that is happening.
00:15:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There's conspiracy theories and all kinds of stuff that some people really believe in with no evidence. But there are some things that I believe in with no evidence. So who am I to say?
00:15:46
Caroline
Right.
00:15:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So anyway, there's plenty of evidence that while Chandler was living a life of lies and illusions and cons, he spent all of the time he was lying about where he was and what he was doing.
00:15:49
Caroline
Brains are funny things.
00:15:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He was engaged in video games that we know. Sometimes for 24 hours without breaking away. I mean, to me, that sounds like an addiction.
00:16:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
To me, well, it's just my opinion. Like I'm thinking about the killer for Sylvie. Remember the the guy who had a job and his parents were worried about him, but not so worried about him that he might kill him, but he did kill him to get more money to pay for Sylvie, who he thought was like his girlfriend, maybe fiance.
00:16:18
Caroline
Yeah.
00:16:35
Caroline
Right. He created a fictitious world.
00:16:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
and He was he spent hundreds of thousands of dollars paying her to dance and thought that they had a relationship.
00:16:39
Caroline
in
00:16:46
Caroline
Yeah, that's pretty common. But I mean, it does kind of lean into this idea that they're living in a different world than the one that's actually there.
00:16:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:16:54
Caroline
They've created a different one. So Chandler, in particular, has created an entire persona and reality that is real.
00:17:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I agree. So the walls were going to start closing in on Jen or though And that makes me happy.
00:17:11
Caroline
Yes.
00:17:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
One critical element of understanding what happened to this family leading up to the murder of both parents is the moment the lies Chandler was telling everyone started coming home to roost.
00:17:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
For example, let's take his education. He was not enrolled in school, although he had told everyone that he was about to graduate and SpaceX had hired him contingent upon this graduation. And what about that paid internship with a life insurance company in the area? He was being asked by his parents, hey, why don't you chip in for rent now that you're employed? And he agreed to do that. But he never did. No one ever was paid to Chandler by this insurance company because it was all a lie. He kept telling his father Bart one thing after another.
00:18:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, the bookkeeping at that company is abysmal, but eventually I'll be paid. Oh, yeah, no, I don't have any money still after several months with this insurance company because when they finally paid me what they owed me, I took the check to the bank and the bank wouldn't take it. They said, that's too much money for one check for one person who does what you do for this life insurance company. And, you know, OK, that does not even That does not pass the smell test.
00:18:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No bank on the surface of the earth is going to turn down too much money.
00:18:42
Caroline
nobody
00:18:46
Caroline
so Yeah, and I think they're only legally obligated to not take terrorist funds. So I mean, you know, they'll take it as long as it's like they don't care who it's coming from.
00:18:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They don't. And you know, how much investigating do they do to find out whether it was a terrorist or not?
00:19:03
Caroline
Yeah, they probably only have one check mark.
00:19:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:19:05
Caroline
They're only going to do what they're regularly required to do, which is why regulations are so important. But I mean, they definitely take money from anyone and everyone who's going to give it to them.
00:19:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:19:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, and if anything bad happens, they got the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation watching their back.
00:19:19
Caroline
Great. They don't care.
00:19:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They don't. And that's why everybody's house is made out of wood. But when you see banks, what are they made out of? Brick. That's what I learned as a child.
00:19:30
Caroline
oh
00:19:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They have their prettiest, newest buildings of anybody.
00:19:34
Caroline
Yes. Yes.
00:19:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
why Why do they get a brick house? because they take money, honey. So what about SpaceX? What about that? He was playing with his girlfriend, Kat. That's her nickname, so we're gonna, she goes by Kat with everybody, so I'm gonna call her Kat, to move to Florida, get an apartment on the beach, become part of the cool young crowd flying high, working at SpaceX. That was just a fantasy, of course.
00:20:07
Caroline
Yeah.
00:20:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So when Chandler, quote, hurt his neck, brain, and back, end quote, which was a lie, the whole thing, this allowed him to tell everyone, including Kat, that everything's ruined.
00:20:12
Caroline
Yeah.
00:20:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
My professional career with SpaceX, my offer for work there has been rescinded because I'm too disabled to work there. So poor me was his demeanor at that point.
00:20:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And everybody, you know,
00:20:36
Caroline
Well, it's quite conniving, really. It's pretty, what do they call that? Calculated. It's quite
The Murders of Bart and Krista Halderson
00:20:42
Caroline
calculated. I mean.
00:20:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well yeah, he's said he's he's into this video game mentality where there's always an escape route.
00:20:48
Caroline
I guess. I mean, maybe it's from one of his scripts from one of the games he plays because it's quite elaborate. First of all, the story in and of itself. And then like, I don't know, why wouldn't you think of an end game? Like people are going to notice when you don't start working at SpaceX or like American Family Insurance. They're pretty big. Sure. They got their bookkeeping down. Like I just I don't know. To me, it's like he's creating these stories that don't really jive. And like, but they're such elaborate, believable stories. I don't know. It's weird.
00:21:17
Caroline
we
00:21:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
maybe again with the the I can only guess about whether the parents were just rolling their eyes.
00:21:23
Caroline
Yeah.
00:21:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Bart the dad had continuously been trying to get Madison College where Bart was enrolled and where he was paying well the couple was paying for his tuition.
00:21:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He wanted to know why can I never get a transcript from you people?
00:21:41
Caroline
Right.
00:21:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He called him and they never called him back. He called him and he left messages, never called him back. Sent text messages all of the above. They never got to him. And so they were fitting the bit, footing the bill and they wanted to know where was their money going. Finally, Bart did what I would have done on day one. He faked being Chandler.
00:22:04
Caroline
Yeah, call the college.
00:22:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Called Madison College. Hi, this is Chandler Halderson. Yes, you want my social security number? Okay, here it is.
00:22:15
Caroline
He did give birth to it. Well, while his mom gave birth to it.
00:22:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Your birthday, give me a birthday.
00:22:18
Caroline
It's his dad.
00:22:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Whatever he could, yeah.
00:22:20
Caroline
There's some burnage here of his life.
00:22:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. So he's trying to find out where are these transcripts in the date of graduation. They want to know what is the date of graduation.
00:22:30
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they them told him on that call, well, we don't have you enrolled. Well, what is the matter with you people?
00:22:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, so at first he thought it was them. What is the matter?
00:22:41
Caroline
Well, and Ethan. Then he started asking though, because this is where it gets great, and I know you get into this later, but the elaborate nature to which Chandler is able to go through this, I mean, he he ended up, like the dad had to ask, okay, because the dad had been emailing with someone at the school, do you have this employee there?
00:22:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Pardon me.
00:23:01
Caroline
and yeah Because the call is available, you said they played it at try trial?
00:23:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Our student, student there.
00:23:06
Caroline
and Yeah, so it was, ew, his poor dad on this call, I can only imagine, What is happening in his mind?
00:23:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This call was part of the trial.
00:23:17
Caroline
Yeah.
00:23:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And in the trial, you could hear the dad starting to realize that he has been lied to.
00:23:28
Caroline
Like pretty bigly.
00:23:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he sets up a meeting for him and Chandler to meet with the college and go over the facts.
00:23:38
Caroline
Yeah. I honestly believe
00:23:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
pardon I've got to fly in my throat or something.
00:23:43
Caroline
I believe this is Bart doing that helicopter style parent approach. First of all, I'm going to pretend to be you and get the answers I need without you. Very standard.
00:23:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:23:52
Caroline
And then the second one is to then He's, it's almost like he's creating this come to Jesus moment for Chandler because for a liar like this, when people are creating these big fictitious worlds and then, I mean, they have to be stopped at a certain point. You have to just get on your knees and say, this is my moment. I've lied this whole time. And then you work towards recovery, right? Repair, recovery. So I think Bart as the dad, that's what he was doing here.
00:24:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think so too. I think so too. He loves his son.
00:24:26
Caroline
He does.
00:24:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And instead of pulling the plug and saying, you lying sack of hoo hoo, don't you ever show me your face again. I'm changing the locks on my doors and youre I'm never going to want to talk to you.
00:24:35
Caroline
Right.
00:24:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He didn't do that. He went to Chandler and he said, Chandler, according to the school, you're not even there. Chandler said, what? He was a Chandler, became physically apoplectic. He was certain that it was some kind of mistake. Prosecutors believe that on the day that Bart had planned to attend a meeting with Chandler at the college, Chandler was attending, not attending, Chandler shot his father, Bart, in the back with a high powered rifle that had been gifted to him by a friend.
00:25:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No. He had a friend who had been in the military, had a high-powered rifle, shotgun or something like that. Anyway, um gave it to Chandler because he didn't want it anymore.
00:25:32
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:25:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And Chandler liked to hunt, and and he liked to go into the woods, and he always wanted to go armed.
00:25:35
Caroline
Yeah.
00:25:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he thought that he would take care of it, but we took care of it all right.
00:25:43
Caroline
Yep.
00:25:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He used it to kill his father because his father had the audacity to confront him with a meeting at the college and knew what that was going to be like.
00:25:55
Caroline
know
00:25:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And shortly after killing his father, he texted his mother, kristen pardon me Krista, and asked her to bring him a soft drink on her way home from work, which she did.
00:26:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, so they don't own him.
00:26:13
Caroline
ah Well, and I would, we joked about this, how it's like, like you're 23 calling mommy for a soda.
00:26:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They don't own him.
00:26:19
Caroline
Like, come on. And then mom does it. Like I would do it too. so I mean, it's just a thing.
00:26:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I would do it too, and my kids are in their 40s, going my 50s, you know.
00:26:26
Caroline
I would hate myself. Yeah. Like, but it's a very common. I mean, you go down your kids. It's like, no, all parents are like that. I get it. But it's a restraint. I have to restrain myself from the amount of doting I want to do with my kids.
00:26:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah, I know.
00:26:38
Caroline
you know
00:26:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I know. It's a tightrope.
00:26:43
Caroline
It is.
00:26:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I don't have any problem with her saying, oh, sure, I'll get you one.
00:26:48
Caroline
Because I would have done it.
00:26:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, yeah, yeah.
00:26:49
Caroline
Get it, Christa. Totally get it.
00:26:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But when she walked in the house with that soft drink, he killed her. He killed her. So Chandler faked him his hand and neck injuries and warned everyone to expect more dire treatments beyond that brace in the future. He was losing his SpaceX employment offer due to this. And when his father discovered for the lies about college and graduation, Chandler killed both his parents.
00:27:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But that's not all, Caroline. There's more. There's a whole world new set of rules, a whole new set of lies, a whole new universe that Chandler Halderson is going to create.
00:27:32
Caroline
Yeah.
00:27:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I think when you and I were talking about this case, you brought up some points that I had not focused on before. And that is that Mabry Chandler Holderson thought that he was God of his own universe.
00:27:50
Caroline
Well, yeah, he's created an entire persona that no one else is in on the idea that it's not real. And then he juxtapositions it next to the real world and tries to keep it afloat.
00:28:03
Caroline
But of course, reality is is going to reflect no evidence of your fake world. So it starts to become difficult to keep it up.
00:28:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Not to others anyway.
00:28:11
Caroline
to others Yeah.
Chandler's Attempted Cover-Up
00:28:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
On July 1st, 2021, Chandler shot his father in the back and killed him. Not long after asking his mother to bring him a sofa on her way home from work, Krista was murdered as well.
00:28:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Not not all of Krista's body was ever found. So it is not known how Chandler killed his mother, but the leading theory is quite easy to make. She too was shot and killed.
00:28:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:28:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Chandler dismembered his parents. Now that's a mouthful. That's a whole nother level.
00:28:47
Caroline
This work gets really, really weird to me. I mean, this is where I think that he's like, not really, he doesn't have any humanity.
00:28:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, we see how depraved Chandler is. Or perhaps he tried to drag their bodies to his car or something or into the backyard to bury or something, but it was just too heavy.
00:29:05
Caroline
Yeah.
00:29:09
Caroline
Yeah.
00:29:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
What about all that heavy lifting for some poor suffering could have brain aneurysms any minute now? I mean, whatever the reason he proceeded to try, and he he he dismembered his parents.
00:29:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He chopped them up.
00:29:26
Caroline
You know, I mean, you don't have it.
00:29:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So now he's got multiple.
00:29:28
Caroline
How do you tool in your home that does that? I don't. ah I don't want to know.
00:29:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know what that takes. I don't know. I mean, you know, they live kind of in a somewhat rural area. Maybe they have, Would chopping tools?
00:29:43
Caroline
Oh, or like a chainsaw or something. I just, I only, again, this is where my ri fake reality skills come into play.
00:29:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:29:50
Caroline
I've only seen this kind of thing in movies and it grosses me out. So I don't know how some kid who's making a fake story about his space X career is doing this.
00:29:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, yeah.
00:29:59
Caroline
I don't know.
00:29:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Listen, somebody if somebody broke into my house and said, i'm gonna I'm going to chop you up to a million pieces, my only question is going to be, well, are you going to kill me first? I mean, please kill me first.
00:30:08
Caroline
yeah
00:30:11
Caroline
So morbid, but very funny.
00:30:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Chandler dismembered his parents, ah either through depravity or he was too lazy to do any heavy lifting. Whatever reason, he proceeded to try and burn the remains in the fireplace.
00:30:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
We're talking about a fireplace in the house.
00:30:30
Caroline
A little one.
00:30:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This was the old man. Of course, this was a no-go. He dismembered his father's head. He tried putting some other body parts in there, but it wasn't big enough.
00:30:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So he started with his father's head and then he burned that in the fireplace until he tried to burn it in the fireplace until the glass fireplace screen on the fireplace burst into thousands of fragments because of the heat generated by the skull and its contents.
00:31:01
Caroline
I mean, my God.
00:31:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's gross. I mean, my God.
00:31:03
Caroline
Oh, my God.
00:31:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And yet Chandler continued to try to burn body parts of his parents before realizing, you know, this is futile, this is not working out. I don't care how hard I try, and I may be God of my own universe, but this fireplace sucks.
00:31:20
Caroline
Ah.
00:31:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so he um he just kind of gave up. So some of them parts, there's little parts there, little parts here and there, I don't know. ah But he he finally gave up and he took the body parts, now that he can lift them, you know, he took them,
00:31:37
Caroline
Yeah.
00:31:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they're in pieces now.
00:31:40
Caroline
Oh
00:31:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
These loving helicopter parents are in pieces.
00:31:44
Caroline
my god.
00:31:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's taken them to his car. He went to his girlfriend's house on July 2nd. And when he was able, he dropped off the body parts in the woodsy part of that property where his girlfriend, Kat, was living with her mother and her mom's partner.
00:32:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And you know I really like Kat and I like their mom and the mom's partner because they were they were key and instrumental in getting This man put in prison.
00:32:10
Caroline
Yep.
00:32:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Neighbors saw continuous smoke and bright firelight emitting from the Halderson's house. Meanwhile, everyone was flummoxed about such an odd situation.
00:32:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, it's July, Caroline.
00:32:26
Caroline
ah Yeah.
00:32:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Concerned, they asked Chandler, where are your parents? Where are your parents and chat?
00:32:32
Caroline
Yeah. And this is a tight-knit community, so I give it up to the neighbors and friends as well.
00:32:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh yeah.
00:32:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
and Oh, yes. Yeah, me too. That, you know, these people are not going to just say that's weird and go back in their house.
00:32:46
Caroline
That's right.
00:32:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm going to march over there and ask Chandler, what the hell is going on?
00:32:50
Caroline
Yeah, this doesn't match.
00:32:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Where where are your parents? Chandler told anyone who inquired that his parents were at the family cabin for a few days with friends.
00:33:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, this family cabin had been in their family for many years and it was about four hours drive away.
00:33:06
Caroline
Oh, wow. That's pretty far.
00:33:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But their cars are in the garage, say this and that neighbor. I mean, they're looking in the garage, this is not right, something's wrong.
00:33:17
Caroline
Yeah.
00:33:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, they were picked up by their friends who took them down to the cabin according to Chandler. Well, what happened how come nobody's called anybody?
00:33:30
Caroline
That part.
00:33:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, they we have bad cell phone there down at the cabin, you can't do that.
00:33:35
Caroline
Oh.
00:33:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, he had an answer for everything.
00:33:39
Caroline
Yeah.
00:33:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then more people from work came by because it was the same story over and over. At some point, Chandler sent a picture of himself to Cap. The shot was Chandler posing with his shotgun, leaning on a tree near a lake where he sometimes hunted.
00:33:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This was going to be another clue that was going to be dropped by Chandler unwittingly. as in no wit at all, that we will circle back and explain.
00:34:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, he was caught very quickly as killers go.
00:34:14
Caroline
Oh yes. Yeah.
00:34:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, you know, he's doing a lot of work to cover up and what he's doing is making more clues. Pressure was rising once July 4th arrived and no one had seen Bart or Krista.
00:34:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Chandler's demeanor was off. His excuses to neighbors, his excuses to coworkers, They were off. He seemed completely blase, unconcerned that his parents were missing work, which they had never, ever done before. Co-workers were gathering their suspicions. Chandler told everyone his parents decided to stay at the cabin longer, thinking that's going to stop anybody.
00:34:58
Caroline
Well, and I would instantly ask, well, when did you talk to them? Can I see the text was, did you talk to them on the phone?
00:35:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:35:02
Caroline
Like I would be hammering. When did you hear that from them?
00:35:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
and
00:35:05
Caroline
You know?
00:35:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They probably were.
00:35:05
Caroline
like
00:35:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They probably were. Yeah.
00:35:08
Caroline
yeah
00:35:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Chandler reported both of his parents missing under this pressure.
Discovery and Arrest
00:35:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So he contacted the police. He said, my parents are missing. I don't know where they are. He went door to door. Have you seen my mommy and daddy?
00:35:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Have you seen my mommy and daddy?
00:35:20
Caroline
i've I've seen, there's actually a lot of footage available of this case and you know his interrogation, or not interrogation, but when he's speaking with police, he appears normal.
00:35:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh yeah. He was out there.
00:35:33
Caroline
He presents as a normal, what is happening? This is surreal. You know, here's one i what what I know about. He presented very real. Like if I were the police, I would have thought, oh, this guy's naturally off and emotional because of his parents.
00:35:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah.
00:35:47
Caroline
No, he's emotional because he doesn't know what the heck to do next.
00:35:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No.
00:35:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
he His parents were missing. And everybody knew it by July 7. And then they they they just brought him in and asked some questions on July 8.
00:36:00
Caroline
Yeah.
00:36:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But they'd already received some tips.
00:36:04
Caroline
Mm hmm.
00:36:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And some of them ah we alluded to earlier. And I'll talk about that in a minute. So while he was being questioned at the police station, authorities meanwhile, looking in the woods, found a mutilated torso of a man with several bullet wounds. And he this torso was in the woods, chopped up different pieces near a home that Chandler was reported to have visited. And of course, this is Kat's house. This is his girlfriend's place and her mother and her mother's partner could feel
00:36:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that something was wrong, they had a hinky feeling about it, and they let the police know. And so did Kat.
00:36:47
Caroline
Yeah.
00:36:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Kat, after those bones were found, she said, well, he sent me a photo of himself.
00:36:55
Caroline
Yeah.
00:36:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, oh my God.
00:36:58
Caroline
she also She also was a instrumental in capturing an essential screenshot of a location setting through Snapchat because he said he was in one place. He ended up being in another and she was the one who grabbed that that evidence that showed where he was at that moment.
00:37:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, I have forgotten about that part.
00:37:18
Caroline
and Yep.
00:37:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:37:20
Caroline
And the place that he was was where his mom's remains, I believe, were located. So it was, I mean, to say that Kat and her family were essential is like an understatement. They were the ability to prove beyond a reasonable doubt this involved.
00:37:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:37:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, Kat had been in the house after the murders and he was trying to explain to her why he was cut up and there was glass all over the floor of the family room.
00:37:37
Caroline
Yeah.
00:37:47
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:37:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And when she realized that the police had found a torso, you know, just she she she immediately, and her mother knew even before that just by sensing it.
00:37:58
Caroline
Yup. Yup.
00:38:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, you know, I guess what I wanna say here is that Chandler Halderson, this consummate liar, thief, and killer, and dismember her,
00:38:13
Caroline
Yup.
00:38:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He is living not just in a loving family, but he's living in a loving community who are going to gather around and show the police what could be over here, what can be over here, and enabled them to quickly put all of the pieces together about what Chandler had done.
00:38:22
Caroline
yu
00:38:31
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And this man has no concept. He's mimicking other people to appear normal, but he actually has no idea.
00:38:43
Caroline
Right.
00:38:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
None.
00:38:47
Caroline
None whatsoever. Yeah.
00:38:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No. So these remains found in the woods were determined to be those of Bart Halderson. A week later on July 14th, a pair of dismembered legs identified as Krista Halderson were found near the Wisconsin River, a spot Chandler often visited.
00:39:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This was the one where he posed with his shotgun for camp.
00:39:14
Caroline
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:39:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And you know, I don't know what happened to her other body parts. Did he take them elsewhere and they were never found or did wild animals carry them off because it was a full 10 days before her body was found or parts of it.
00:39:24
Caroline
Right. Right. Yeah.
00:39:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So when that happened, Chandler was arrested and initially for lying to detectives. But he was subsequently, in pretty short order, be charged with the murders and dismemberments of his parents and a lot of associated other felonies. So as I mentioned, this was a trial that was quite riveting to me.
Trial and Conviction
00:39:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so I want to cover that trial a little bit. Chandler-Hollerson was charged with two counts of first degree intentional homicide, providing false information on missing persons, mutilating a corpse,
00:40:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
hiding a corpse and that would be two counts on both of those. Halderson entered a plea of not guilty and went to trial on January 2022 and opening statements started on January 4th. Prosecutors argued that Chandler murdered his parents after they discovered that he was lying about various aspects of his life. Chandler had stated numerous times that he was attending Madison Area Technical College when an employee with the local was an employee with the local branch for American Family Insurance, and that he had a plan to move to Titusville, Florida when he graduated college, and he was taking his girlfriend with him, Catherine Melander, also known as Kat, where he would be working at SpaceX.
00:41:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It couldn't just be another insurance company. It had to be, I'm going into orbit.
00:41:06
Caroline
I know.
00:41:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm going, you know, I'm i'm going to be an astronaut.
00:41:09
Caroline
Well, I mean, just to save you from my personal opinion, I'm not surprised liars would want to work there.
00:41:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh snap. Anyway, we won't be following that up, but I get it. Halder son. Halder, I don't want to go to Mars. Let's put it that way.
00:41:25
Caroline
I know. Me neither.
00:41:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't want to be around people who want to go to Mars.
00:41:30
Caroline
Let them go tomorrow.
00:41:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Let's go to Mars. You have good time. Halderson was convicted on all charges and was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole on Thursday, March 17th, 2022. Now I have to tell you something, Caroline. When they asked him, did he have any comments?
00:41:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Um, like the judge says, you know, before I, before I, uh, sentence you, do you have any comments? Cause he's, we've been listening to people who are going to have witness impact statements and so forth. So do you want to say anything? He said, I do. Um, I do too have feelings. People say I don't have any feelings, but I was told that while I'm on trial, I should not show any of my feelings.
00:42:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And second of all, I need an attorney to handle my appeal. So any of you attorneys out there, if you're listening, please give me a call. That's what he said.
00:42:30
Caroline
Wait, you had another, you had mentioned another thing about that though, because they played in the trial.
00:42:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm not kidding.
00:42:35
Caroline
You watched the trial and they played the video regarding the remains that they found.
00:42:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:42:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:42:42
Caroline
And Chandler also watched that video in the trial.
00:42:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes. Yes.
00:42:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes. And he showed no emotion. If my attorney tells me show no emotions emotion, and i I have to watch a ah screen and video and and and step by step evidence and and testimony about my parents who were murdered and dismembered, I don't care what my attorney has told me not to do.
Impact on Mitchell and Family Legacy
00:43:13
Caroline
yeah
00:43:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
If I'm a human being, if I've got warm blood coursing through my veins, I'm going to show emotion.
00:43:19
Caroline
Well, because that is an emotional, traumatic experience to look at things like that, even if you have no connection to the case whatsoever.
00:43:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh God, I agree.
00:43:29
Caroline
So when they're your parents, I agree with you on that. That right there tells me everything I need to know about his psyche. He doesn't have one.
00:43:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, no.
00:43:38
Caroline
He's emotionless. you know
00:43:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, I mean, The evidence was overwhelming. I mean, he could have said anything and it was gonna be an eye roll moment. Chandler has not filed an appeal yet.
00:43:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
as i ah I have not been able to find an appeal yet.
00:43:56
Caroline
Okay.
00:43:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I've been looking him up ever since I've been talking with you about this case and and finally deciding to do this case. Chandler has not done anything really beyond you know whatever he's doing in prison.
00:44:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't think overconfidence in his ability to fool people will help him in prison. Since he's not going to have any privacy, they're going to see that he's flesh and bone like everybody else.
00:44:21
Caroline
Right.
00:44:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's not a God.
00:44:25
Caroline
Right.
00:44:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He can have whatever going on in his head in his alternative universe. But um I'm just thinking he's probably not doing that well.
00:44:35
Caroline
yeah oh yeah well and i think about poor mitchell because poor mitchell did also testify at the trial and like i didn't really focus on this but i imagine this had a huge impact on him in a variety of ways
00:44:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I wonder if he even gets commissary money from any family and friends. I mean, I wonder if there's a person on the face of the earth that believes he did not kill him, dismember his parents.
00:44:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, he did. Oh God, yes. Yes, absolutely. And you know, you have, we say at the beginning of every episode that family trauma,
00:45:10
Caroline
Yeah.
Psychological Analysis and Societal Implications
00:45:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
individual generational trauma. when the When Mitchell has children, if he does, what's he gonna tell his children about their grandparents?
00:45:18
Caroline
Yeah.
00:45:22
Caroline
Right.
00:45:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
What's he gonna say?
00:45:28
Caroline
Or about their uncle.
00:45:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's just, I mean, yes, absolutely. it just issues It's unfathomable, I think, if you haven't been through it and I have not.
00:45:38
Caroline
Right.
00:45:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I've had some traumatic experiences of seeing some pain in my own family, but not like this.
00:45:44
Caroline
yeah
00:45:47
Caroline
Yeah, right.
00:45:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So yes, I agree that a shout out of compassion for, chan for um for I'm sorry, Mitchell, thank you.
00:45:54
Caroline
Mitchell. Yeah, sorry.
00:45:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I didn't want to start turning my pages back, but you know, I'm just kind of in a cloud thinking about how could you do this Chandler?
00:46:07
Caroline
I know.
00:46:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Because I mean, to me, he's a real person. He may not think he's a real person. He may think that he's just observing the real world. And his head is in video games.
00:46:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't think they get to play video games in prison. I'm not sure.
00:46:20
Caroline
I don't think so either. Yeah, I don't know.
00:46:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm not sure.
00:46:23
Caroline
I hope not.
00:46:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Maybe he has a prison GoFundMe page. And I know some convicts have a, please write to me.
00:46:30
Caroline
Do they do that?
00:46:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Here are my interests. I'm interested in Chandler. Are you interested in Chandler? If so, write me a letter about what do you think about Chandler?
00:46:45
Caroline
Enough about me, what do you think about me?
00:46:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
o Yes, yes.
00:46:48
Caroline
and
00:46:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
My guess is that he is preyed upon in prison because he's always looking for sympathy and pity for all the bad things that were happening to him.
00:47:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So many, in fact, that his devoted parents finally in their last moments, in their last moments, realized that he was a dishonest and manipulative person. They still loved him. They're coming home. They're bringing him a Coca-Cola or whatever it is that he was drinking. They're doing all the things to show forgiveness and love. And um I don't think he understood any of that. I mean, you know, maybe that's just what kind people do. And I think maybe that is what kind people do.
00:47:37
Caroline
Well, yeah, and I think parents who have to fight consciously their their doting reflex I think Brad and Krista did every single thing right.
00:47:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:49
Caroline
I mean, you can only go off face value unless you have an overt reason to be digging through people's records to verify their statements.
00:47:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:47:58
Caroline
You shouldn't be doing that, right? And the parents really didn't have a reason that they knew of to do that until Brad
00:48:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No.
00:48:06
Caroline
did find one, he did all the right things, and it just, who knows if they had done it any sooner, if the outcome would have been different. Who knows, you know?
00:48:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I agree. I don't think that it would have because I think i mean I'm starting to be in the category of people who believe that some of this is born a that a every now and then, like one in a million.
00:48:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Unfortunately, there are billions of people. So there's it seems like there's a lot of them.
00:48:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:48:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But one in a million persons are born with just a propensity toward malignant behavior.
00:48:47
Caroline
Yeah. I think that's a good way to say it too, because then it allows for varying degrees, right? Because you have someone who just walks around kind of being, and you know, what do they call it?
00:48:58
Caroline
Brunt, or brash, or harsh, and we just know that as a person, oh, that's just them, right? And then you go all the way up to the other end of the spectrum where people are killing people for not agreeing with the lies that they want to create, like.
00:49:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yeah
00:49:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, I think that some parents do realize that their child is dangerous and that they do get them the help that they need ah or they do, you know, tell the authorities and saying, you know, there might be a mental, we need to figure out if there's a mental illness here.
00:49:29
Caroline
Right.
00:49:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think that there are a a lot of parents who would do that. Some parents have the misfortune of having a child who's not only got a dark mind and, you know, interested in killing animals and things like that, but they also lie. And you never know any of it. The lies are so good you won't believe it.
00:49:55
Caroline
That's it, and you don't stumble upon it early enough. I'm with you too, and I would say that legislation, at least in this country, is moving towards parents. I'll say moving towards incentivizing parents to have more upfront involvement and poke at this.
00:50:09
Caroline
I don't know what the results will be in terms of parenting styles, but you have, if your child does something out there in the world now, I'm obviously thinking of school shootings, but there are other things, any kind of act of violence or theft um upon society at large,
00:50:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Sure. Yeah.
00:50:24
Caroline
The parents now can be in certain situations held culpable alongside the actual you know perpetrator, their child in theory. So we're moving towards there, but we're not being given any tools with what does that look like?
00:50:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, no.
00:50:40
Caroline
who where like
00:50:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, one of my favorite true crime rural people is Candace DeLong. She was an FBI behavioral. um
Conclusion and Credits
00:50:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
person. She was on the, she she was a psychiatric nurse and then the FBI hired her and then she was in on the ground ah floor of the development of a behavioral unit at the FBI. She makes the distinction and, you know, I kind of, you know, follow her and I think that she may be right. I i don't know. I don't have a ah any ah science behind it in my own
00:51:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
background, but she makes the distinction that a sociopath is someone who has a horrendous, these are people who tend to have a horrendous upbringing of abuse, trauma, um all of the above, and they do go on to commit some very gruesome murders and they have some ah psychopathy related to that.
00:51:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
but a psychopath, she says psychopaths, they're born that way.
00:51:51
Caroline
Wow. Well, i I want to dive deeper on that. I know we won't today, but scary stuff out there.
00:51:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, I listened to her podcast called um our ah psy catching psycho or something like that, psychic killer, psycho killer, Candace DeLong, Candace DeLong.
00:52:08
Caroline
Christine DeLong and DeLong, okay.
00:52:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um I think she might have been at CrimeCon the year you and I went, ah but I missed her talk. But when we go back to CrimeCon one of these years, and she if she's still with that on that you know cycle, I will go see her, because I really admire her a lot.
00:52:36
Caroline
Yeah. Well, and it is interesting work.
00:52:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I like her shows.
00:52:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
so
00:52:40
Caroline
Like I do, like even the Dr. Vander. person that you cited earlier. I'm so, so awful with names. But he, you know, I am curious how these people move about the world because, you know, you see people at grocery stores, just like, cause I'm a people watcher.
00:52:54
Caroline
And a lot of people watching involves creating fictitious stories around what you're seeing and like what their life must be like and all the things.
00:52:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yes
00:53:01
Caroline
And you just kind of, you get curious. I'm extra curious if they get a little bit like, oop, yeah, I'm not shopping at this store anymore. I can see that guy's a psycho or you know what I mean? Do you just walk through the world differently?
00:53:12
Caroline
I wonder.
00:53:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i i I have found myself to be more in the camp of distance myself from people who are sort of woo woo woo about some of their credentials, some of the things that they say and do, some of the lies that they tell.
00:53:33
Caroline
Right.
00:53:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm just going to distance myself from that person.
00:53:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm probably not going to say anything to them about it.
00:53:42
Caroline
Yeah.
00:53:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Um, so, uh, maybe that comes with age. I don't know. And believe me, if it comes with age, then I am really, really doing good because I'm getting up there. I, the only thing remaining to say is today's episode is researched, written and narrated by Bridget and Caroline produced by Andy. Our research is solely based on public domain documents, including legal documents, articles, and books.
00:54:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
about our subject. Episodes are aired every other week. If you like us, please subscribe and give us a five star review. Tell your friends about us in person and by social media. All of these actions help new listeners find us. And thank you. We really appreciate you as our listeners. ah We want to bring you the best stories that we possibly can. And one other thing, don't forget to live and let live. Oh, bye-bye, Caroline.
00:54:44
Caroline
Bye.