Transcript
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Hello listeners, welcome. I'm Bridget.
Caroline: And I'm Caroline.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: You are listening to Hearth Home and Homicide, a family production about family murders. Caroline and I research and narrate each story. Andy is our producer.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Caroline and I try to figure out what is going on with the family at the center of the case. We know that the ripple effect of family murder never ends. And we want to see how a killer in the family is responsible for this immeasurable destruction and trauma.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So listener discretion is definitely advised. So Caroline, today we're going to a famous murder site, Fall River, Massachusetts, where Lizzie Borden lives in infamy from her grave, where she was accused of murdering her father and stepmother,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: on Thursday, August 4th, 1892. Now, I told Andy we were going to cover Lizzie Borden, and he said, well, I know about Lizzie Borden is that song, that thing, and, you know, I call it a pseudo-nursery rhyme.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Here's how it goes. You've probably sung it jumping rope as a kid. Listeners, Lizzie Borden took an axe and gave her mother 40 whacks. When she saw what she had done, she gave her father 41 whacks.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I remember singing that. I had no idea who Lizzie Borden was.
Caroline: I remember that. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But then later I became an adult. And then deep into my adulthood, I decided I really want to understand these murders. And I did a lot of research about Lizzie Borden. And and I thought, well, everybody knows about Lizzie Borden until Andy told me that's all I know what really happened. i have no idea.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So I thought, oh, good, we'll do Lizzie Borden.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So that's what we're doing today. It's an interesting and studied family murder like no other, really. This is one family that was doing very well until it wasn't in Lizzie's mind.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And she was immediately a suspect when her father and stepmother were murdered. bludgeoned with an axe that was never found or was it? There's some ah contradictory history about that that we will cover.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So who is Lizzie Borden, not counting the murder part? Lizzie Andrew Borden. Now back then, you know, i guess they named women for the father as well as the mother. i don't know.
Caroline: I think middle names were meant to carry family names. So any family name you wanted to come along, but that you couldn't attribute on your own through marriage, you would put it in the middle name of your children.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Right, right. There are a lot of cultures who still do that. You can tell who their ancestors are by those long names and what they refer to.
Caroline: Okay. Yeah.
Caroline: Kind of like it.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So Lizzie Andrew Borden was born on July 19th, 1860 in Fall River, Massachusetts. To Sarah Anthony Borden, 1823 to stat on born died.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ah is sarah's stat on li born and died and Andrew Jackson Borden, 1822 1892.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So we see by these dates that Lizzie's mother died when Lizzie was just two years old.
Caroline: Yeah. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, you know, i don't care what part of history you're talking about. That's rough. Her father, who was of English and Welsh descent, grew up in a very modest surroundings and struggled financially as a young mo man, despite being the descendant of wealthy and influential local residents.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So I don't know what that's all about, but you could bet it was part of the scene here. He eventually prospered greatly in the manufacture and sale of furniture and caskets.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: How ironic, Caroline.
Caroline: Smart, smart, smart gig. I mean, you know, recession proof.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah, everybody needs to sit and everybody's going to die. Then became a successful property developer in addition to those two. And then we see here that Andrew came from a wealthy family, but his living conditions were modest.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: This is actually a thread that runs through this family murder story too. No matter how rich... The father became. He continued the modest conditions of his family in the home and in their lives.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So he was very, very penny pinching. Very, very. Andrew became a director of several textile mills, owned considerable commercial property.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: He was the president of the Union Savings Bank and director of the Durfee Safe Deposit and Trust Company. And at the time of his murder, his estate was valued at $300,000.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: three hundred thousand dollars And that is the equivalent in today's money of about $12 million.
Caroline: Whoa, that's a lot at that time even.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Whoa. Whoa.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah. Despite his wealth, Andrew was known for his frugality, as I already mentioned. For instance, the Borden residents lacked indoor plumbing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They had to use a They had to pitch their, go get their water, fetch their water and bring it, you know, to the house. And they had to ah go to the outhouse to go to the bathroom.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ah And this indoor plumbing was not all that new. at the time of this story, even though it was a common feature in wealthy homes, and it was becoming even more common faster ah to regular households. they would They would invest in this new technology.
Caroline: Well, and they didn't even really, I mean, because even households who were wealthy at the time who would have still had this same situation, they probably would have had a lot of servants to, say, empty bedpans so that the actual residents there wouldn't have to be as impacted as the servants, right?
Caroline: Because they're saying, like, go get the water. That's really probably the maid that's going to get the water. But still, it's taking her extra long.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yes.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Right.
Caroline: But it's that outhouse piece that you can't really do much about unless you do that bedpan thing, which is... really gross but it was a thing for a long time
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah, it's all gross. It's all inconceivable to us who live now, although I've camped a lot and it's not good.
Caroline: yes totally
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: and so it's it's like camping when you don't have to is how I look at the frugality of this household.
Caroline: yes
Caroline: probably
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The house stood in a decent area, but the wealthiest residents of Fall River, which of course Andrew definitely was, including all of his cousins, they generally lived in a more fashionable neighborhood it named The Hill, which was farther from the industrial areas of the city.
Caroline: Yeah. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So now remember what kind of pollution we're talking about and air quality. if you're in amongst the industrial parts. But you know, Andrew, he owned a lot of that.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And he owned a lot of houses that he rented to other people.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And so he, I guess, wanted to be close to the um the source of his wealth. Lizzie and her older sister, emma Lenora Borden. So she got two female names.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I just, I don't know. Anyway, they had a relatively religious upbringing. They attended central congregational church. As a young woman, Lizzie was very involved in church activities, including teaching ah teaching Sunday school to children of recent immigrants to the United States.
Caroline: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So, and there were a lot of children from recent immigrants of the United States. She was involved in religious organizations such as the Christian Endeavor Society, ah which is a general all-purpose church-based charity.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: um But all the churches getting together and all the women in those churches forming a society. for which she served as secretary treasurer and contemporary social movements, such as the Women's Christian Temperance Union.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: No drinking allowed. She was part of that.
Caroline: Oh, yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She was also a member of the Lady's Fruit and Flower Mission.
Caroline: oh
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Now, that might sound silly, but these ventures were extremely meaningful to all the people. at this time in American history. Because for most residents, life was still on the bleak side of modern standards.
Caroline: oh yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And, you know, you got somebody bringing fresh fruit to your house or flowers to your house. ah That was way important.
Caroline: life savinging Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And, you know, when you go to any ah city market nowadays, you
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: People scooping up fresh fruit, people scooping up those flowers.
Caroline: Yeah. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I do it myself right here in Edmonds.
Caroline: Oh, yeah. me to the flower sir yeah no it's I think at that time, too, this is where I think we can look back to and and got a lot of data around the idea that
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So when Lizzie...
Caroline: Yeah, humans actually need a lot of intangible things that are non-related to work or money to thrive, right? Fresh air.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I agree.
Caroline: You know, fruits, vegetables, healthy grown things, you know, it's it's actually really imperative. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I'm going to get super gritty here when I tell you that women in this time period all over the civilized world were ah found with flowers in their hands, flowers on their collar, flowers in their hat, if they could afford flowers. Why? Because cities stunk like hell.
Caroline: Yep. That's the thing. All the pouches with the lavender, the sniffing salt, like, ah like not sniffing salt, but you know, all those things were meant to actually dispel the realities going on around them.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yes.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Posies, posies.
Caroline: The disease, the death, the, the,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So I mentioned already that Lizzie was a toddler when her mother died. Three years after the death of Lizzie's mother, and of course, you know, Emma's too, Andrew married Abby Durfee Gray, who was six years younger than her new husband.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And Lizzie and her sister had a cordial relationship with Abby, but that went sour later. Events occurred to make Lizzie and her sister begin calling Abby by the name, oh hello, Mrs. Borden.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Good morning, Mrs.
Caroline: Oh
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Borden. They never called her by her name again. They were mad at her. ah where you know Before they had called her mother. They were little children when they, you know, when this happened.
Caroline: oh yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Well, what happened was tension had been growing within the Borden family in the months before the murders, especially over Andrew's gifts of real estate to various branches of Abby's family.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: What? Oh, snap.
Caroline: Oh, I see.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: We're not going to see you as our mother anymore. You have children that have nothing to do with us, and our father is giving these children money.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Where is our money?
Caroline: Like, how it starts.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: All we're doing is working hard. That is how it went. So that's when they started talking to her as Mrs. Borden.
Caroline: Ah, so crazy.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: It's just ah what happened.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: After their stepmother's sister received a house, the sisters demanded and received a rental property. By sisters, I mean now it would be Emma and and Lizzie.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They're saying, you're going to give them a house? You're going to give us a house.
Caroline: me a hug.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Give us a house.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And, you know, the father, Andrew, he wanted peace in the family, which he was soon going to but really not have. And ah as a result, he acquiesced.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah. Anyway, they bought they were given the house that they lived in until their mother died.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So, in other words, their first mother. He owned that house.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: He sold it to them for $1.
Caroline: Wow.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So, okay, now they're property owners.
Caroline: Which was still, I mean, that's like still a sum back in the day. It wasn't easy for anybody to come up with a dollar, like in 1892. I'm just going to.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: True, True. true. A few weeks before the murders, they sold the property back to their father for $5,000.
Caroline: Is that extortion technically? Or is it like a family thing?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I don't know what you would call that, but you know that they did okay. In 2023,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That $5,000 would have been So now here we everything is almost double so we're now talking about probably thirty three hundred thousand dollars
Caroline: Well, not only that, but it's a home somewhere in America. So it's a million.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: yes yes yes The night before the murders, John Vinicum Morse, Lizzie and Emma's maternal uncle, so it's the brother of her, their dead mother, he visited and was invited to stay for a few days to discuss business ventures with Andrew, leading to speculation that their conversation, particularly about property transfer, may have aggravated an already tense situation.
Caroline: Okay.
Caroline: Yeah. Are you talking to John?
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So now probably Abby's going to be pissed. What are you talking? You're not married to that woman anymore. She's dead. Why are you doing deals with her brother?
Caroline: you
Caroline: Oh, and the brother's probably like, yo, I still.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, you know, a lot of tension.
Caroline: Yeah, well, because the daughters, there's still a representation of his sister there. So he's going to to be demanding and fighting for what he knows his sister would have fought for their fair share. Oh, tense.
Caroline: This sounds like a soap opera, like a real, you know, housewives of Lizzie Borden's house or something.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yep.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So let's talk about another person living in the Borden home at the time of our murder, Bridget Sullivan, whom they called Maggie, and I'll get to that in a minute.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The Borden's 25-year-old live-in maid who had come from Ireland to be in the United States, Bridget was called Maggie because, you know, wait for it, that was the name of the previous housekeeper, maid, person, who lived with the Bordens. So when Bridget arrived from Ireland and moved in, it was just too much trouble for Lizzie and her sister, Emma, to adjust to that name.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Bridget. they So they just kept calling her Maggie ah so as to feel as if no change had been made.
Caroline: yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I think, Caroline, that that little fact... which I found in some of the books I have read about the book Borden story, tells a lot about the thought processes of the Bordens, at least the Borden daughters.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They felt themselves better than common people, and they felt entitled.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: You feel entitled enough to not call someone who is waiting on you and cleaning up your
Caroline: whatever yeah cleaning up everything well in dehumanization I mean I have to wonder was Bridget an endangered servant servant in this scenario because I know that happened a lot okay okay I mean he so I don't know how it
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: bleep,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: um that you're you're going to call them by your previous maid's name. I just feel like that is the height of arrogance and entitlement.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: No, she just got a job. it was a job. It was a job. And she lived in the house, so she got free room and board, I imagine.
Caroline: Which is common. I mean, I think, I just think about the structure of ah life back in this time and the immigration of peoples and what they had to do to get, to even get to a place to stand on their own two feet over here, you know?
Caroline: So, yeah, that's pretty dehumanizing to be like, meh, my, pretty the you know, the person who previously did this was called this, so I'm not going to bother because that's how little I think of that position and that person who's in it.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah, you look at the adjustment. that Bridget has made in her life to get this job.
Caroline: Yeah. Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Look at the adjustment that's being asked of these two young ladies.
Caroline: Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They were in their 20s. I mean, they were grown women. They were out in the community doing good things, um you know, and and and living in that house and helping with the housework and so forth.
Caroline: Charitable works. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: You know, they they couldn't make even the most modicum change And I think it's ironic that they don't want anything to change, and yet there's a murder.
Caroline: I can't even know how to sacrifice.
Caroline: Right. It's just, anyway, this piece of it starts to give off a little bit of Benendez brothers to me, right? These are clearly, even in their time, girls or young women of great privilege from their family. So, I don't know.
Caroline: But they want more?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yep.
Caroline: Or like they're dissatisfied in some way? I don't know.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah, well, that is the human condition.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Bigger, better, faster, more.
Caroline: Yeah, right. and who And who around me is taking it from me.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Or might.
Caroline: Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Bridget testified that Lizzie and Emma, now this is, we're talking about when Lizzie ah went to trial. Bridget testified that Lizzie and Emma rarely ate meals with their parents.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I imagine that's because of that, ah a bunch of arguments about money and going to Abby's daughters, our property.
Caroline: Yeah. Right?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: In May 1892, just three months before the murders, Andrew killed multiple pigeons in his barn with a hatchet. Oh my goodness, how prescient is that?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: To use a hatchet to kill chickens, believing that they were attracting local children to hunt them. So he didn't like little kids running around in his barn chasing these ah pigeons.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Lizzie, on the other hand, had recently built a roost for the pigeons. And it had been Bridget's observation that Lizzie was upset over his killing of the pigeons with an axe.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Now, that makes me wonder, did Lizzie Borden think to herself at that moment, I'm going to kill you with an axe?
Caroline: Well, right. I mean, that's what it's looking like. but Like, this is the seat. This is the real, like, oh, yeah, axe. You know, like, it's just the start of the story for her of what I'm going to do about my life.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ah Yeah, and, you know, a family argument in July 1892 prompted both sisters to take extended vacations in New Bedford.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: After returning to Fall River a week before the murders, Lizzie chose to stay in a local rooming house for four days before returning to the Borden residence.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, maybe she just wasn't ready to go back to life as usual, or did she need the time to plan to change her life altogether? Or did she meet somebody there?
Caroline: wow Well, now that I think, well, that's the thing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: We'll never know.
Caroline: And I think you bring up really good points. Like, was this all just part of this plan that was already starting to roll? If that's the case, I mean, we don't know. and But for me, this highlights the privilege. Like, I'm so hyper-focused on the privilege that these young ladies live. We think of it now as like, yeah, free will. Like,
Caroline: yeah, go find yourself Lizzie for four days before you have to go back to this family you hate. Like we think about these things like they're normal in this time period and they were not. Like it was, who's got money to go stay at a rooming house?
Caroline: What girl in her twenties is going to be allowed to stay there alone? So she must've had a chaperone. Who was with her? Was it just her sister? Was it, I have a lot of questions because this
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: No, the sister, not the sister. Nope.
Caroline: So, I mean, this to me is a highly privileged act alone. It speaks to not a lot of families would have been doing this in the first place, let alone even fewer would have had the means to do it.
Caroline: So I'm with you. This to me speaks to more of a breakaway from, you know, all of it by Lizzie, an independent mogul style bust out of her confines, right?
Caroline: So maybe it is part of her. Maybe she did meet somebody there and start conspiring. Maybe it was, I kind of think it was the uncle a little bit, but nothing other than circumstance to go on there.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ye
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Who knows? For several days before the murders, the entire household had been violently ill. Can you imagine how fun that would be when you don't have plumbing? Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But that's not why I bring it up. A family friend later speculated that mutton left on the stove to use in meals over several days was the cause. Abby had feared poison, given that Andrew had not been a popular man in Fall River.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Most landlords are targets for poison in those days, maybe.
Caroline: Maybe.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: In other words, you know, landlords have never been anybody's favorite.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So Lizzie and Emma's mother, who died when they were young, had a brother named John Vunicum Morse. Morse was visiting the Bordens in at the time of the murders.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Morse arrived in the evening of August 3rd and slept in the guest room that night. Now remember, the murder takes place on August 4th in the morning.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: After breakfast the next morning, at which Andrew, Abby, Morse, and Sullivan were present, but Sullivan is Bridget, so Andrew, Abby, the uncle, Mr. Morse, and Bridget,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I will not call her by her other name. Andrew and Morris went to the sitting room where they chatted for nearly an hour. Morris left around 8.48 a.m. m to buy a pair of oxen and visit a niece in Fall River, planning to return to the Borden home for lunch at noon.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Andrew left for his morning walk sometime around 9 a.m. Now, Andrew was 70-something. He was 71 or 2 at the time of the death. And he stayed fit physically, including these walks. So it was normal for him to take a walk after breakfast. Although the cleaning of the guest room was one of Lizzie and Emma's regular chores,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Abby went upstairs sometime ah between 9 a.m. m and 1030 to make the bed. I don't know what that's all about. Maybe they cleaned the room, but they didn't make the bed.
Caroline: Well, yeah, because...
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I don't know.
Caroline: Well, and they have a maid.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But anyway, yeah.
Caroline: It's also interesting.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And it was then and and there that and at that time that she was axed to death. Now, according to the forensic investigation, Abby, now remember, ah this is Andrew's wife, who now is called Mrs. Borden, not mother, because everybody's pissed.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: and Everybody's pissed at Andrew also. lot of anger going on. Abby was facing her killer at the time of the attack, so she knew who killed her.
Caroline: Oh, right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Too bad she can't talk.
Caroline: right
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Anyway, she was first struck on the side of the head with a hatchet, which cut her just above the ear, causing her to turn and fall face down on the floor, creating contusions on her nose and forehead.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That's the autopsy. Her killer then struck her multiple times, delivering 17 more direct hits to the back of her head, killing her.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Now, Caroline, to me, know, that's rage, in my opinion.
Caroline: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That's rage.
Caroline: I mean, it's over.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Axe falls are heady and ah heavy, and they are hard work.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And you're going to take the time to bash somebody in the head 17 times?
Caroline: i mean it's over
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That means you've got a lot of negative energy in you.
Caroline: It's overkill. Yeah. they They say that's the crime of passion.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yes.
Caroline: Typical of interfamilial. you You know your victims.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yes. Yes. So when Andrew returned at around 1030 from his walk, his key failed to open the door.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So he knocked. Bridget Sullivan went to unlock the door, finding it jammed. And she uttered a curse word. She would later testify that she heard Lizzie laughing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And immediately after this, she did not see Lizzie, but stated that the laughter was coming from the top of the stairs. Now, want to say something about this house. This house is not a big house.
Caroline: Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And wherever you are in that house, you can hear everything else that's going on in that house.
Caroline: Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I know this because I've read the accounts of recent people who have slept in that house because it's a museum and it's also a board bed and breakfast where you can stay in the house.
Caroline: I don't know if I sleep there.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And it's kind of a memoriam of this death and this killing and the mystery or surrounding it.
Caroline: Right.
Caroline: right
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So, He's coming home ah and he's got this problem with unlocking the door. and um you know, Bridget can clearly hear Lizzie laughing at the top of the stairs. So that puts Lizzie and in the house and at the top of the stairs.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Now, this was considered significant as Abby was already dead by this time. And her body would have been visible to anyone on the home's second floor. Lizzie later denied being upstairs and testified that her father had asked her where Abby was, to which she replied that a messenger had delivered Abby summons to visit a sick friend.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Now, this is one of those things where, you know, People had calling cards and a messenger would be paid, ah you know, a penny or something to take the message over to.
Caroline: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So but Lizzie basically has made up a story, i think, of the um of the ah sick.
Caroline: yeah yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: A friend is sick and needs your help to Abby.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So Bridget Sullivan stated that she had then removed Andrew's boots and helped him into his slippers before he laid down on the sofa for a nap, a detail that was contradicted by crime scene photos, which show Andrew wearing his boots.
Caroline: That struck me as odd.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So who's lying here?
Caroline: Well, and it struck me as odd because i want, it makes me want to think that, I mean, I believe this is a conspiracy. There's just no way this goes off by a single individual unknown by all other involved individuals.
Caroline: Just don't think that's the case. But I thought maybe Bridget was involved, but, but she's treated poorly by everybody in the house. So I don't know what her relationship with these girls is really like with Lizzie and Emma.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Well, if Bridget is involved, it would be to me that that she would be lured into it by money because these girls are going to become very rich.
Caroline: You know, is she,
Caroline: Well, that part, that's the only part that makes me think she is still in on it. I think the door bit is all like something that she doesn't, I don't think she genuinely knew about, but I think it's part of the overall plan.
Caroline: but But this part is weird. Yeah, why this contradiction?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So at the trial, Bridget went on to testify that she was in her third floor room resting from cleaning windows when just before 11, 10 a.m. m she heard Lizzie call from downstairs, Maggie, come quick.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Not Bridget, you know, Maggie, come quick. Father is dead. Somebody came in and killed him.
Caroline: That's weird thing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So Andrew was slumped on a couch in the downstairs sitting room, struck 10 or 11 times with a hatchet-like weapon.
Caroline: Oh, yeah. Oh.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And, you know, another word for hatchet would be, you know, an axe.
Caroline: oh yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: One of his eyes had been split cleanly in two, suggesting that he had been asleep when he was attacked. His still bleeding wounds suggested also that it was a very recent attack.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Dr. Bowen, the family's physician, arrived from his home across the street and pronounced both victims dead. Detectives estimated that Andrew's death had occurred at approximately 11 a.m.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So let's talk a little bit about the investigation. Lizzie's initial answers to the police officers' questions were at times strange and contradictory.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Initially, she reported hearing a groan or a scraping noise or a distress call before entering the house from the barn. Two hours later, she told police that she had heard nothing and entered the house, not really ah not realizing that anything was wrong.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: When asked where her stepmother was, she recounted Abby receiving a note asking her to visit a sick friend. She also stated that she thought Abby had returned and asked if someone could go upstairs and look for her.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: In this rendition of her movement, she said, Bridget and a neighbor, Mrs. Churchill, I'm calling her Bridget. It's, you know, Maggie, but it's Bridget.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Anyway, in this redition rendition of her movement, she said that Bridget and a neighbor, Mrs.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Churchill, were halfway up the stairs, their eyes level with the floor, when they looked into the guest room and saw Abby lying face down on the floor, They flew down the stairs in horror, I imagine.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Most of the officers who interviewed Lizzie reported that they disliked her attitude. Some said that she was just too calm and too poised.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They didn't say anything about her contradicting storylines, but I mean, the trial transcript ah is like one minute she says, oh, I went downstairs. The next minute, you know, she's asked now where, what was going on with you? i i never went upstairs.
Caroline: Right. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So she's even on the stand, you know, she or even, pardon me, even, you know, ah yeah, in court and also before the grand jury and also with detectives.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: You couldn't pin her down as to what her story was.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So anyway. ah despite her behavior and changing alibis, police remember, as did witnesses such as Bridget and the neighbor Mrs. Churchill, that Lizzie Borden most definitely had no blood on her person or her clothes.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And there were no bloody footprints anywhere. Police did search her room, but it was a cursory inspection. At the trial, they admitted to not doing a proper search because Lizzie was not feeling well.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They were subsequently criticized for their lack of diligence. Interfering with a lady was another issue of the time, in my opinion. And there were some examples of that in this case that ah we can talk about.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But I think that they were tippy-toeing around because no way can a woman wield an axe and kill.
Caroline: Well, that, the the wealthy family bit too is going to come in a little bit.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That was a bias.
Caroline: But yeah, the the fact that there are women, I thought it was so, it tickled me that you were like, the Cubs thought she had a bad attitude. They were going to hate women anyway. But, you know, it's like, you're a little too calm.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah. Yeah.
Caroline: You're a little too whatever.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: it's too It's too hard to interview a woman.
Caroline: ah Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Bring me a man who did it. You know, yeah.
Caroline: Right. i But I agree with you. i do think social mores allowed women to perpetuate a lot more crimes back in the day.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ah You know, I want to point out that we're talking about a hatchet, but then an axe and then the, you know, she took an axe, gave her mother 40 whacks and, you know, but I think that because I went through so many documents and I have read some books about this, it's sometimes called an axe and sometimes called a hatchet.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I think it's called an axe because that fits in and rhymes better with the ah little song that everybody made up.
Caroline: The wax. Yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Anyway, in the basement, police found two hatchets, two axes, and a hatchet head with a broken handle.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The hatchet head was suspected of being the murder weapon as the break in the handle appeared fresh and the ash and dust on the head, unlike that of other bladed tools, appeared to have been deliberately applied to make it look as if it had been in the basement for a long time.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So it was a setup, they thought.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: However, none of these tools were removed from the house for forensic examination because of the mysterious illness that had stricken the household before the murders, the family's milk and the victim's stomachs, which were removed during autopsies performed in the Borden's dining room.
Caroline: well
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So that's how far from, ah it's a different, I mean, wacko, if you ask me.
Caroline: Just a different era. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But anyway, none of those things, none ah none of any of that was tested for poison.
Caroline: No indoor plumbing?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: No poison was found, um like, that you could detect.
Caroline: Right, like a like a
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But there just wasn't very good ah forensics.
Caroline: like a cyanide or like a a poison known for the day, I'm assuming, an arsenic or something.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yes. There were rumors that she had shopped around. She, Lizzie, had shopped around for poison and all of this kind of stuff. But back then, that was nothing. That's like shopping around for dishwashing detergent.
Caroline: yeah
Caroline: right
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: It's because back then, you had to make all your potions and lotions and everything.
Caroline: is the apothecary oh yeah yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And back then you had to kill your own varmints and ah you had to wash things and there was no, you know, Mr. Clean.
Caroline: well I think they're still carrying around cocaine for a little pick-me-ups aren't they
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ah it wasn't illegal to do that.
Caroline: I mean, i think yeah, know your doctor prescribed it.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So,
Caroline: It didn't even prescribe. They just recommended because you could do what you wanted. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Some residents suspected Lizzie of purchasing hydrocyanatic acid, which is what you were talking about. It's cyanide in the diluted form from a local druggist.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: look Lizzie's defense was that she inquired about using acid to clean her furs, despite the local medical examiner's testimony that it did not have antiseptic properties.
Caroline: Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: um But, you know, I mean, Lizzie might think it does, so that's not evidence.
Caroline: right
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So Lizzie and Emma's friend, Alice Russell, decided to stay with the sisters the night following the murders, while Morse, the uncle, spent the night in the attic guest room, contrary to later accounts that he slept in the murder site guest room.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So who knows where he slept? And, you know, remember, we we suspect he could be part of this, you know, situation.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Police were stationed around the house on the night of August 4th, during which an officer said he had seen Lizzie enter the cellar with Alice Russell carrying a kerosene lamp and a slop bale.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: He stated he saw both the women exit the cellar, after which Lizzie returned alone. Though he was unable to see what she was doing, he stated it appeared that she was bent over ah sink.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Now that's just what, so what? But there is a so what to that. And that is that on August 5th, Morse left the board and residence and was mobbed by hundreds of people.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Police had to escort him back to the house. Morse was a suspect, definitely is but suspected of being the murderer. You know, number one, he was the only man in the house.
Caroline: And that's that's why he's
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Women don't do things like this, you know.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The following day, police conducted a more thorough search of the house, inspecting the sister's clothing and confiscating the broken-handled hatchet head.
Caroline: Thank
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That evening, a police officer and the mayor visited the house, and Lizzie was informed that she was a suspect in the murders. The next morning, Alice Russell entered the kitchen to find Borden, Lizzie Borden, tearing up her dress.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She explained that she was planning to put it on the fire because it was covered in paint. And it was never determined whether it was the dress that she had been wearing wearing the day of the murders.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, a police officer sir is seeing all of these weird things going on. And Alice Russell, the neighbor, is saying, hey, she, you know, she's going to burn a dress.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I don't know what dress it was.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They never asked her what dress it was.
Caroline: It has paint on it.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So there was a coroner's inquest. Yeah, yeah.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: There was a coroner's inquest, the same coroner who just carved up these bodies um in the dining room of the Borden house.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, so when we say coroner, we're not talking about an office down here by the county courthouse.
Caroline: Yeah, right, with with a vehicle to come get the body.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ah No.
Caroline: Yeah, no, this is all this is all very 1800s. Oh,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yep.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Very, very. Lissy appeared at the inquest hearing on August 8th. I mean, you know, that's pretty fast. That's four days after the murder. Her request to have her family attorney present was refused under a state statute, providing that an inquest must be held in private.
Caroline: yeah
Caroline: ah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Oh, my God, how things have changed. I mean, you know, sure, you want to have an inquest in private so you can threaten something and get a confession.
Caroline: I mean,
Caroline: but your attorney always, I mean, attorneys are always extensions of the person that they represent.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: You know, we want to go home to our families.
Caroline: They just are. So that is shocking to me.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah, I wouldn't have wanted to live back then, I'll be honest with you. I would want to be around animals a lot more than I am in the city, but um by that I mean farm animals and, you know, all the cute things and babies and all of that.
Caroline: Yeah.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But, me you know, i wouldn't go back in time for that reason. No toilets, no privacy, stinky air.
Caroline: No.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Oh, yeah.
Caroline: No, thank you.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She had been prescribed regular doses of morphine to calm her nerves, just like you were saying, Caroline.
Caroline: Yep.
Caroline: yep
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And it is possible that Lizzie's testimony was affected by all of this cocaine use. Do you think?
Caroline: Yeah, you think you think morphine might have an impact on your sensibilities?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Um, yeah, you're right. It's morphine, not cocaine. Anyway, her behavior was erratic and she often refused to answer a question, even if the answer was beneficial to her.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Okay. yeah Yeah. That is a worthless inquest. I'm sorry.
Caroline: She's high off this morphine.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She often contradicted herself. She often contradicted herself, I've already talked about that, by providing alternating accounts of the morning in question, such as saying she's in the kitchen reading a magazine when her father arrived home, then saying that she was in the dining room doing some ironing, and then saying that she was coming down the stairs.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, she didn't know where she was, and that was what she was trying to convey, or it could have been true.
Caroline: Bye.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: On August 11th, week after the murders, um Lizzie was served with a warrant of arrest and jail. This inquest testimony, the basis of the modern debate regarding Lizzie's guilt or innocence, was later ruled inadmissible at her trial in June 1893. So, know, about...
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: so you know about The trial is going to be eight months later, nine months later, 10 months later.
Caroline: Yeah. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I'm trying to picture my, i um so she murdered, pardon me, the murder happened in ah August and now she's going to stand trial in June.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So that's 10 months in 1993, 1893.
Caroline: and yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Okay.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Contemporaneous newspaper articles noted that Lizzie possessed a quote unquote stolid demeanor. So she was very stone faced, I guess.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Kind of stoic. And she bit her lips, flushed and bent over toward attorney named Adams. So she's both stoic and flushed and bent over.
Caroline: I mean, she's still probably high on morphing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So what is she? I mean, they just put her all over the map. Maybe she was.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: It was also reported that the testimony provided in the inquest had, quote, caused a change of opinion among her friends who have up until the inquest strongly maintained her innocence.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The so the inquest. qui All right. Let me get this straight. The inquest is private. But after the inquest, it's all over town.
Caroline: Boom. I think you nailed it, Mom. Injustice.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean,
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: the inquest received significant press attention nationwide, that private inquest.
Caroline: Yeah, right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So now everybody in the now everybody in the country knows, including an extensive three-page write-up in the Boston Globe.
Caroline: I hope that attorney sued over this. My God.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: but That was a big newspaper at the time.
Caroline: Oh my God. Well, and at this time, genuinely, ah well, I was just going to say newspapers were the Facebook, the Instagram, the TikTok of their day.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: In fact, I got some of my, yeah.
Caroline: Everybody knows now.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: all of the above. Well, after tongue-wagging, yes.
Caroline: You might.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So, rumor, rumor, rumor.
Caroline: o
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ra But you're right. Newspapers were, um get your story for a penny.
Caroline: Age six. I mean, hello.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Here's a murder by somebody. Anyway, a grand jury began hearing evidence on November 7, and Borden was indictled I'm indicted on December 2nd.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I think I was trying to mush together the words indicted and entitled, and I got indicted. That's going to be a new word.
Caroline: There you go. He was entitled.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And um our Miss Lizzie went to the lockup.
Caroline: my gosh.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I don't think there were a lot of civil liberties that covered accused, let alone convicted criminals in 1892. But there were very few women prisoners and Lizzie probably received more comforts and definitely more privacy.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, they probably let her redecorate the clink.
Caroline: Oh.
Caroline: The best money jail or best jail that money can buy, for sure.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She may have even had inside plumbing. I don't know. Lizzie's trial took place in New Bedford starting on June 5th, 1893. This reminds me of the time um of that.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The time is way longer now for mass murder and family murder. So it usually takes, I'm going to say, an average of three to five years to get to trial on a sensational trial like this.
Caroline: Right. Right. right
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Prosecuting attorneys were Hosea M. Nolenton and future United States Supreme Court Justice William H. Moody was a prosecutor on the case.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Defending was Andrew V. Jennings, Melvin O. Adams, and former Massachusetts Governor George D. Robinson. So, you know...
Caroline: Dream Team.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: hoity-toity. Yes, all men on the jury, all men, prosecutors, all men, judges, everybody was men, always back then.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And they all did well after this trial because they were famous, because the trial was famous.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Five days before the trial's commencement on June 1, another axe murderer occurred in Fall River. This time the victim was Bertha Manchester, who was found hacked to death in her kitchen.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The similarities between the Manchester and the Borden murders were striking, and they were noted by jurors. So this is reasonable doubt already floating over this um legal proceeding.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Five days before the trial's commencement is when it happened. So I think it was on everybody's mind mind like, well, that means Lizzie Borden is innocent.
Caroline: Right. And my twisted mind thinks, man, Lizzie sought out to murder somebody else just to make this a thing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Oh, Caroline, what a dark mind you have, and I'm so proud of you. jose Carrera de Mello, a Portuguese immigrant, was later convicted of Manchester's murder in 1894 and was determined not to have been in the vicinity of Fall River at the time of the Borden murders.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Well, how convenient.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Still, though, I think it may have added to the idea that strangers from elsewhere are among us, and some of them will kill innocent people with an axe.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That's just my opinion.
Caroline: Yeah. I think that's the most accurate thing you can extrapolate from this whole thing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: A prominent point of discussion in the trial and press coverage of it was the hatchet head found in the basement, which was not convincingly demonstrated by the prosecution to be the murder weapon.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Prosecutors argued that the killer had removed the handle because it would have been covered in blood. One officer testified that a hatchet handle was found near the hatchet head, as I've already mentioned, but another officer said, no, it was not.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: There was no hatchet handle near the head of the hatchet.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So that goes out the window. Though no bloody clothing was found at the scene, Russell, the, um the I think she's the woman who was the neighbor.
Caroline: Oh, the neighbor, Alice? Yeah, Alice russ alice Russell.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Huh? Yes, Alice Russell testified that on August 8th, 1892, she had witnessed Lizzie burn a dress in the kitchen stove, saying it had been ruined when she brushed against wet paint.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: During the course of the trial, the defense never attempted to challenge this statement. They never said anything like, aha, aha.
Caroline: Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I think back then everybody who wore nice clothes burned their clothes that were ruined somehow or buried them. So I think this was maybe a non-starter.
Caroline: yeah
Caroline: Yeah. Like for.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Just like, well, who doesn't burn their clothes?
Caroline: Right. But but it is interesting, though, this idea around the but that's why I think conspiracy is the only way, because you're right about the blood splatter. You don't hack people and walk away. It's in your hair.
Caroline: You would have to shower fully. And even then it's in the draining and, you know, they didn't have a no. So I just this is such a crazy case.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: It's a crazy case, and it's a famous case. And I just love it because we'll never know, or maybe some people do know, Lizzie's presence at the home was also a point of dispute during the trial, according to testimony.
Caroline: Never know. Yeah.
Caroline: never know
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Bridget Sullivan said she entered the second floor at a around 1058 and left... Lizzie and her father downstairs. Lizzie told several people that at this time she went into the barn and was not in the house for 20 minutes or possibly a half an hour.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Lyman Labinsky testified for the defense that he saw Lizzie leaving the barn at 1103 and Charles Gardner confirmed the time.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So these are just neighbors who either want to be part of the trial or they really saw something that exonerates her.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: At 1110, Lizzie called Bridget downstairs, told her Andrew had been murdered, and ordered her not to enter the room. Instead, Lizzie sent her to go get a doctor.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Both victims' heads had been removed during autopsy in the, ah by the way, dining room. The skulls were admitted as evidence during the trial and presented on June 5, 1893.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Upon seeing them in the courtroom, Lizzie fainted.
Caroline: Well, why? Why are they presenting?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: For one thing, at
Caroline: Oh, the acts.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: They wanted to show how the hatchet head could fit into the bre ah the the skull for both of the victims to show that it was definitely an axe murder.
Caroline: They were. Yeah.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But, you know, they had used acid to strip away all the flesh from the skull. I mean, that's what they did back there, and everybody knew it.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And they were told that in court as evidence. So, you know, to show that nothing we did by scraping off the flesh, we did not use ah ah a knife.
Caroline: Right.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: We used acid. And Lizzie fainted. Evidence was excluded that she had sought to purchase prussic acid, that's the hydrogen cyanide, purportedly for cleaning a seal skin cloak from the local druggist on the day before the murders. The judge ruled that the incident was too remote in time to have any connection.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Just a few days before the murders is too too far away in time to not be...
Caroline: remote
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I think the judge is batting his eyelashes at Miss Lizzie. I don't know. Maybe it's the other way around.
Caroline: that or he's he's just like i'm picturing that scene in fried green tomatoes he got drunk got i ran off the road i don't give a good you know he just is like they're over it these judges
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yes, yes, yes.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So the presiding associate judge, Justin Dewey, who had been appointed by Robinson when he was governor, delivered a lengthy summary that supported the defense as his charge to the jury before it was sent to deliberate on June 20th, 1893.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: After an hour and a half of deliberation, the jury acquitted Lizzie Borden of the murders. Upon exiting the courthouse, she told reporters that she was, quote, the happiest woman in the world, end quote.
Caroline: Well, yeah, double jeopardy, man. she could Now she could tell us a story.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Over the years, this trial has been compared to later trials of Bruno Hauptmann. He is the man accused and found guilty of murdering the Lindenburg baby.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Ethel and Julius Rosenberg, these were convicted and hanged spies.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: O.J. Simpson, as a landmark in publicity and public interest in the history of American legal proceedings. So now oh joe O.J. Simpson... I don't know, what would be similar to that?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Well, that everybody thinks and knows actually in their heart and in their mind, their critical thinking part of their brain, that OJ did murder.
Caroline: Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: um However, when the the winner that the there was a problem with evidence.
Caroline: yep
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: There was a different to climate in the country that was brought to bear on that trial.
Caroline: ye
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And all I can say is there's kind of a parallel here between the you must acquit if if the glove don't fit and the other one about if there's no blood, then Lizzie Borden is um not mud. I mean, I'm trying to make up a poem here. It's not working as good as the glove thing.
Caroline: If you're not so not filthy, you're not guilty.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But I'm just saying, you know.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Later life of um Lizzie and her sister Abby, I want to touch on that. After the trial, the Borden sisters moved into a large, modern house in the Hill neighborhood.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: in other words, the rich part of town, Fall River.
Caroline: Oh, interesting.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Around this time, Lizzie began using the name Lizbeth A. Borden. Lizbeth A. Borden is what is written on her tombstone.
Caroline: so interesting
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So she was serious about that.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: At their new house, which Lizbeth dubbed Maplecroft, they had a staff that included live-in maids, a housekeeper, and a coachman.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Because Abby was ruled to have died before Andrew, her estate went first to Andrew and then at his death passed to the daughters as part of his estate. A considerable settlement, however, was paid to settle claims by Abby's family.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Now, Lizzie or history has floated the story that no, Lizzie and her sister, Emma, felt it was the right thing to do.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But I did read in one document that there was a lawsuit. so I'm thinking a nice thing to do for you, maybe.
Caroline: To make that lawsuit go away.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: i mean, yeah. yeah
Caroline: It's real nice. No, yeah, that's...
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So, but they still, I mean, $12 million dollars and you're going to give them maybe 1 million worth of property.
Caroline: There was plenty to go around.
Caroline: Yeah. Well, I imagine. Well, and we talked about this in line with the OJ trial. There is a no guilt or, you know, acquittal for the criminal side because your so your standard is so high. that Beyond a reasonable doubt. Too much reasonable doubt present.
Caroline: Now the civil side is the preponderance of the evidence. So OJ did get a, you know, ah the families from that trial did get a ruling on the civil side that they are responsible for the death. So I imagine it in line with that type of judicial.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Yeah, i think I think you're right. The fact that the fact that they received a good claim. They received ah property.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Despite the acquittal, Lizzie was ostracized totally, even in her church, that she had served for years. Years. And she was ostracized.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So in the court of public opinion, she murdered her mother, her stepmother, and her father.
Caroline: done so
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Her name was again brought into the public eye when she was accused of shoplifting in Providence, Rhode Island in 1897. So Miss Lizzie has some psychological problems.
Caroline: That had to have been...
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Why would you shoplift?
Caroline: That's that piece and that had to have been so embarrassing for everyone. Like, weird.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Oh, she probably just said it was a mistake or I thought I was going to be sending them a check or, you know, she got ah she got a but she was accused of shoplifting and it was in the paper.
Caroline: Maybe she wanted that.
Caroline: and
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So, um you know, if you see it in print, it's probably happened more than once. Anyway, that's just my made up philosophy. In 1905, shortly after an argument over a party that Lizbeth had given for actress Nance O'Neill, who was outwardly and openly homosexual, Emma moved out of the house um and she never saw her sister again.
Caroline: wow
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But, you know, there's a line.
Caroline: that's a lot.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Murder is not the line.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Homosexuality is the line.
Caroline: Or something.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And,
Caroline: I mean, who knows? ah Who knows? Because at this point, they've been carrying around whatever did happen for 10 plus years. So who knows?
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So Lizzie was ill in her last year following the removal of her gallbladder. She died of pneumonia on June 1, 1927 in Fall River at the age of 66.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Funeral details were not published and few attended.
Caroline: Oh.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Nine days later, Emma died from chronic nephritis in a nursing home in Newmarket, New Hampshire. Having moved to this location in 1923, both for health reasons and to avoid renewed attention, following the publication of another book about the murders. There were many books.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The Borden sisters, neither of whom had ever married, were buried side by side in the family plot in Oak Grove Cemetery. At the time of her death, Borden was worth over $250,000, equivalent to a little over $6 million now.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She owned a house on the corner of French Street and Belmont Street, several office buildings, shares in several utilities, two cars, and a large amount of jewelry.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She left $30,000, which would be roughly a million dollars in today's world, to the Fall River Animal Rescue League.
Caroline: Aw.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Well, I just love you, Lizzie, for that. and she um And she put money in a trust, a large amount of money in a trust, for the perpetual care of her father's grave. And
Caroline: oh
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Her closest friend and cousin each received about $175,000 in today's money. It was $6,000 at that time, but that was a substantial fund sum of money um at the time of the estate's distribution in 1927.
Caroline: Yeah. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She left money to numerous friends and family members. Each received about $1,000 to would be between $25,000 and $130,000. five thousand dollars which would be between twenty five thousand and ah hundred and thirty thousand So she was ah generous upon her death.
Caroline: how
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I note that nothing went to her sister, but then her sister was dead nine days yet later.
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So anyway. In culture, scholar Anne Schofield notes that Borden's story has tended to take one or the other of two fictional forms, the tragic romance or the feminist quest.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: As the story of Lizzie Borden has been created and recreated through rhyme fiction, it has taken on the qualities of a popular American myth and or legend that effectively links the present to the past.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: The Bordens House became a museum and operates a bed and breakfast with 1890 styling. Pieces of evidence used in the trial, including the hatchet head, are preserved in the Fall revolutionel fall River Historical Society.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And you know, a lot of people don't know this, including you, Andy, that the rhyme, Lizzie Borden took an axe, gave her mother 40 whacks. When she saw what she had done, she gave her father 41.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: It has a second verse. Andrew Borden now is dead. Lizzie hit him on the head up in heaven. He will sing on the gallows. She will swing.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So apparently...
Caroline: harsh
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: A lot of people thought she was guilty. there were so There have been so many books, plays, operas, made-for-TV movies about Lizzie Borden. She is legally innocent.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: She is also immortal. Do I think she did it? Yes, probably, but legally, no.
Caroline: Right, there you
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I think it's very possible that she was a a conspirator with someone else, maybe the uncle, or maybe Emma.
Caroline: Who
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I don't know.
Caroline: knows it'd be all of them.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Maybe Bridget. I don't know. I mean, it's really a tale of how far society has traveled in 100 years or so. Police work, DNA, cameras everywhere, in digital evidence, to name a few.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: One question remind remains in my mind, though. How on earth was there not blood on Lizzie Borden?
Caroline: that part.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: I mean, an ax in the face and the head area on both of them, not quite 40 or 41 wax, but where is the blood on the killer on the floor?
Caroline: Yep.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Where are her shoes dripping from her person?
Caroline: On the exit.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: In other words, yes, there was probably a lot of blood on the floor where the hour, the sofa, where the victims were,
Caroline: Yep.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: But what about trails leading out of the room by the killer?
Caroline: That's it. Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: That's a mystery to me.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: um You can read more about it almost anywhere. Just type in the word Lizzie and it'll pop up. You mean Borden? And then just look up all the different theories.
Caroline: from there yeah ah right I mean right
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: ah There are probably societies and clubs who meet on a regular basis to talk about it. There have been reenactments of the crimes using a real jury, real prosecutor, a real judge and real ah defense attorney.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And the jury came back, not guilty, but they all thought she did it. Or they were hung on whether she actually did it, but they were they came back. She just there was nothing there to convict her.
Caroline: It's the OJ phenomenon. you I mean, you nailed it. We all know the truth in terms of like, we all think you did it, but we all agree that you're not legally guilty. Like it's, it's hard, but there it is.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Right. i'm going to I'm going to say that it never occurred to me to go way back in time
Caroline: yeah
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: for a family murder. And now I'm hooked. So listeners of Hearth, Home and Homicide, ah there might be some, you know, back to the future ah going on here, because this is incredibly interesting.
Caroline: and
Caroline: It is.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And i'm going to be looking for other, I happen to know about this murder and I'd already read some books, but I, you know, ah now I'm going to look for family murders way back in the day.
Caroline: Yeah.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And I won't go as far as Cain and Abel, but you know, I'll go.
Caroline: Right.
Caroline: I'll go.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: So we'll talk about it, Caroline. We'll talk to Andy about it and see what we want to do.
Caroline: I love it. i love it
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Anyway, Listeners, thank you. Our research is solely based on public documents, including legal documents, articles, and books about our subject. Episodes are aired every other week.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: Please tell your friends to join us and give us a review and subscribe. This helps new listeners find us. We thank you for joining us. We really appreciate our listeners. Thank you so much.
Andy, Bridget and Caroline: And one other thing, don't forget to live and let live. So bye-bye, Caroline.
Caroline: Bye-bye.
