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Erin Patterson
54 Plays1 month ago
Death Cap Mushrooms are used by the cruelest of the cruel to murder her family. It went viral and she got caught. Will she get a light sentence because she says it was an accident?
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Transcript
Introduction to 'Hearth Home and Homicide'
00:00:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Hello listeners, welcome. I'm Bridget.
00:00:05
Caroline
And I'm Caroline.
00:00:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You are listening to Hearth Home and Homicide, a family production about family murders. Caroline and I research and narrate each story. Andy is our producer.
00:00:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Caroline and I try to figure out what is going on with this family at the center of the case. We know that the ripple effect of family murder never ends for the victims.
00:00:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
families. We see how a killer in the family is responsible for immeasurable destruction and trauma. So listener discretion is advised.
Case Introduction: Erin Patterson, the 'Death Cap Mushroom Killer'
00:00:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Caroline, we do have a humdinger today that happened in Australia and it just happened.
00:00:49
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:00:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And most of our listeners have heard about it. Some may know a lot about it. And we hope to give those listeners something new to comprehend.
00:01:00
Caroline
yeah
00:01:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But we're talking about Erin Patterson, the Death Cat Mushroom Killer, who killed her mother-in-law, her father-in-law, tried to kill her husband, but his husband, you know, was smarter, too smart for her.
00:01:06
Caroline
yeah
00:01:18
Caroline
yeah
00:01:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
killed her aunt by marriage and killed her pastor who's married to her aunt
Survivor's Struggle and Hope for Kindness
00:01:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
in law.
00:01:26
Caroline
why
00:01:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So
00:01:26
Caroline
I think he survived. The pastor survived. But he's forever damaged because his liver.
00:01:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yes.
00:01:32
Caroline
He has to have a liver transplant now. and like he
00:01:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah yeah Oh yeah. He, yeah.
00:01:35
Caroline
It was no just seed poisoning.
00:01:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I've seen him give brief messages. He's not verbose. He just says when um Heather died, i I, you know, I'm now leading half life.
00:01:53
Caroline
god
00:01:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, um you know, he doesn't talk about what it's like to be a liver transplant per recipient.
00:02:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But what that means is that he is very compromised all the time.
00:02:05
Caroline
all the time.
00:02:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um And, you know, it's very sad. and And after the trial, he even told all of the people on the stoop of the courthouse wait when he came out, he just said, I hope everyone can just be kind to one another.
00:02:21
Caroline
Oh yeah he's faster.
00:02:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, ah he's a pastor. He's a Baptist church pastor.
00:02:27
Caroline
Well, and it's shocking. It wasn't like a car wreck. It's not like a i mean, when I think of poisonings, I'm thinking of medieval sort of like fake Game of Thrones type movies, which I know that the medieval times were real.
00:02:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:02:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:02:41
Caroline
But I mean, to me, it's so far removed from reality. Or, you know, Russian spies or whatever, like some espionage from some other place ah besides a place like Australia. I don't know. It just is a little bit scary.
00:02:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's very scary. the Now, we have covered some poisonings before.
00:03:01
Caroline
Yeah.
00:03:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The woman who poisoned her ex-husband, her former husband, and then her new husband, and tried to blame that murder on her daughter.
00:03:07
Caroline
Yeah.
00:03:10
Caroline
That's right.
00:03:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i mean, you know, we we've heard but about diabolical before. we We seek them out.
00:03:14
Caroline
That's true.
00:03:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
We're diabolical, heat-sensing rockets, but... Really, I've never seen anything of this heinousness,
00:03:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um lack of empathy, just the diabolical ah evil. I mean, these are words I don't even really don't come close to how bad this woman is.
00:03:42
Caroline
right
00:03:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So let's get started.
Erin's Conviction and Infamy
00:03:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
As I said, today's episode is a is a recent case of family murder occurring in Australia and followed all around the world.
00:03:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I believe it attracted worldwide imagination because if Erin Patterson were to be truly guilty of this family murder, then that would make her at the top of the creepy, vicious murder heap.
00:04:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she was. she i mean, it's saying a lot to be at the top of the creepy, vicious murder heap.
00:04:14
Caroline
Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah
00:04:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, you know, she she was convicted of triple murder and attempted murder. of one of her family members, but four victims, well as we know there are so many other victims, but four direct hit victims.
The Lethality of Death Cap Mushrooms
00:04:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She poisoned members of her family she claimed to love with death cap mushrooms. Death cap mushrooms are responsible for 90% of worldwide mushroom poisoning throughout the world.
00:04:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So,
00:04:48
Caroline
Mushrooms are are fascinating to me because they seem like much like honeybees, like one of the central core stitches of the universe. You know what I'm saying?
00:04:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, yes.
00:05:00
Caroline
and And yeah, in the spectrum of mushrooms, there's capacity to absolutely ravage your body into death.
00:05:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. Well, death cap is the worst.
00:05:08
Caroline
Or...
00:05:09
Caroline
Yeah. Or there's this other end of the spectrum where you just get this euphoric brain opening spiritual awakening. I mean, it's just interesting. I'm just going to throw that out there about mushrooms.
00:05:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's the worst.
00:05:19
Caroline
They scare me. I'm not going to lie. I don't prefer them for food, but I i also don't dabble in them because of this kind of stuff.
00:05:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, no, I'm not going to eat a mushroom.
00:05:29
Caroline
Yeah.
00:05:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Absolutely, death cat mushrooms wait several hours after eating to strike. And when they do, they tear your entire body to bits.
00:05:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then there is a reprieve, like, oh, I'm going to get better, followed by death, by its victims' liver dissolving, and then all of the organs ah in the digestive system dissolving.
00:05:47
Caroline
Yeah.
00:05:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And probably every organ in your body starts to dissolve after that.
00:06:00
Caroline
yeah
00:06:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So it is just so sinister. It defies my vocabulary to explain how horrendous these things are in terms of a way to kill someone.
00:06:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, i mean, it's just awful. For Erin Patterson to use these mushrooms to feed to her mother-in-law, her father-in-law, her mother-in-law's sister, which would be her aunt, she also tried to murder her aunt's husband, who is a pastor of the Baptist Church where Erin went to church.
00:06:26
Caroline
Thank you.
00:06:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin's murder spree with death-capped mushrooms is almost incomprehensible to the human mind. Just zero empathy. You know, like lack of empathy is an understatement.
00:06:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You got the opposite of empathy.
00:07:01
Caroline
Right.
00:07:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Cruelty. just You know, diabolical long-term planning. Nothing about her plot put her off. She never hesitated.
00:07:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She felt only revenge and glee in the horrors awaiting her victims. So she's like those villains on TV. They have the long fingernails and they have very bony long digits and they're putting them together under their chimney like that.
00:07:23
Caroline
right
00:07:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, just almost, almost literal. it It's hard to believe that a literary bromide like that character could be real.
00:07:38
Caroline
Yeah.
00:07:42
Caroline
ah Right. But we've I've seen more than I thought I ever would.
00:07:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yeah Right, right. Only the pastor survived, but not easily. he is greatly compromised, spending two months in the hospital.
00:07:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He has to live with a liver transplant and the loss of much of his family. So, now, Caroline, these people are in their 60s and 70s.
00:08:05
Caroline
And out of nowhere.
00:08:09
Caroline
They're, oh, he's lucky he survived, truly. But he might not feel that way, but.
00:08:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, he might or might not see it that way. No. So why did she do it? Who is Erin Patterson before becoming the world's most cruel and diabolical family murderer?
00:08:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin Trudy Patterson was born on September 30, 1974, in a town called Waverly, which is a suburb of Melbourne, Australia. Her maiden name was Sutton.
00:08:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Her father was a government worker of good repute. Her mother was a university professor. So she was in a family, Caroline, who had the means to raise a family well-nourished in body and in mind.
00:08:54
Caroline
Well, yeah, those are great gigs. ah You know, government work, I think, is really commendable because it's a work typically geared towards service. And then university professor, you're saturating yourself with the growth and learning of other humans.
00:09:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
oh Absolutely.
00:09:07
Caroline
I mean, these are really good. These are solid professions,
00:09:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, so, I mean, you know, how could this person
Erin's Background: A Peculiar Upbringing
00:09:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
arise from the midst of that beauty as a couple? She had one sister, not as lot is but known about her, although she did testify in court.
00:09:26
Caroline
Right. Yeah.
00:09:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But anyway, Aaron was nothing at all that screamed... psychopathic killer or malignant narcissist. She didn't do any dog and cat killing that I could find.
00:09:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, she didn't, you know, ah lie all the, wait, she did lie all the time.
00:09:46
Caroline
right
00:09:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Psychopaths, typically you can find that in their past, but more central to psychopathic behavior ah would be a child who is starting out on dogs and cats and rabbits and things like that.
00:09:49
Caroline
yeah
00:09:59
Caroline
Right, yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:10:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There's just torturing them. So I'm going to move off that subject because it's hard for me to think about. But she didn't have any of those bits when she was young. But while she was mostly awkward and peculiar, that's what people thought about her. She grew up to be, you know, a fairly well-adjusted adult.
00:10:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But there was always always away something kind of weird and edgy about Erin throughout her life. That's what everybody says about her. There's plenty of weird, edgy people.
00:10:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I am drawn to weird, ja edgy people.
00:10:34
Caroline
I was it just going to say, this is what makes it difficult.
00:10:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:10:38
Caroline
She's got none of the malignant narcissist tendencies in the childhood like we see after. It's like one the, this is the example of where you don't, you can't apply any of the stuff we know until an after event because this
00:10:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. And, you know, maybe she was doing things that she hid very well.
00:10:52
Caroline
That's it. Right. That she was able to hide really well. But I mean, I i like, I'm with you.
00:10:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:10:59
Caroline
So far, you've described someone I want to hang out with.
00:11:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:02
Caroline
Awkward, peculiar, super smart.
00:11:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, sure. sure Why not? Why not?
00:11:07
Caroline
But, yeah.
00:11:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Sometimes people who are bookish and they're kind of solitary, well, they live in my house and I live alone.
00:11:10
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:13
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:15
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So there you go.
00:11:19
Caroline
Exactly. Exactly. I come over sometimes and then you have two of them. Just kidding.
00:11:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Yes. ah Yes, that's true. We have our little, but ah ah what is that called? A sorority of two.
00:11:30
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So she seemed to be drifting as a young college student. I mean, she got into college very easily. She's whip smart.
00:11:39
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And as a young adult, she was kind of moving in and out of different degree programs. She was very smart, but she was feckless. She never could self-direct. She never could make show of her
00:11:50
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah good show of her ah tenaciousness to stick with her goal.
00:11:59
Caroline
yeah
00:12:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She just sort of, you know, was flopping around and um she just didn't seem to have the capacity to commit to anything for very long.
00:12:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She wasn't cozy with anybody in her groups. I mean, she was actually mean to groups that she was in history shows.
00:12:21
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:12:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, for example, in college, she drifted from one major to another. She did well, and whatever she undertook, she just didn't fit in. She was rude to people. She would get...
00:12:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
far down the academic path and then lose interest, and she didn't get along with any of her cohorts in her classes. So, okay, today's students were going to put you in a group of four, and everybody's just praying to whatever deity they have in their lives to say, please don't put me in a group with erin but Aaron Scudder or Aaron Patterson.
00:12:53
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:13:02
Caroline
yeah
00:13:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So in 1992, then Erin Scudder was accepted for a science course of study at the University of Melbourne, a prestigious science course.
00:13:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Later, she switched to accounting. Okay, what?
00:13:18
Caroline
that weird
00:13:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So she's a promising science student getting into a very difficult program. Oh, never mind. I think I'm going to be in accounting.
00:13:32
Caroline
Yeah, I wonder how much of that is like fear of committing to something. You know, like there is this trend with her where she, other than the, think you're going to talk about, you know, she tries all these things, but like she doesn't ever actually finish anything.
00:13:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, no, she's, yeah.
00:13:47
Caroline
Which is like, is she afraid of that piece of it? Does that expose something that she's managed to hide this whole time? You know, like you're saying, we don't see her as being these narcissistic, tend maybe this is part of that.
00:14:01
Caroline
Like then then when she's got to apply some knowledge, because she, this meanness is all, it has been interesting to me. Like why, why default to be such a horrible person for others? Because we've all met someone like that.
00:14:12
Caroline
So it's not a foreign concept to me.
00:14:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Rude people, rude people, people who are just fine putting you down.
00:14:15
Caroline
Yeah.
00:14:19
Caroline
Yeah.
00:14:19
Caroline
Hmm.
00:14:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it
00:14:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know. I mean, toward the end, I sort of feel like I... i I maybe think that she's somebody who resents other people utterly, and she um doesn't want to be in this situation anymore.
00:14:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So instead of giving herself a pep talk and looking at the pros and cons of sticking with her program,
Manipulative Behaviors and Marital Breakdown
00:14:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
instead of doing that, um or realize that sometimes emotions are fleeting,
00:14:51
Caroline
Yes. Yeah.
00:14:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Instead of doing that, she just quits. She's a quitter.
00:14:55
Caroline
ah yeah yeah
00:14:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um so anyway, ah so she wants to be an accountant. So she goes down that path for a while. Then she drops out of college and she decides out of nowhere to take a course in air traffic controller, which requires a certification.
00:15:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This is one of the most difficult professional certifications to pass in the world.
00:15:23
Caroline
Well, thank God for that. Because it ought to be. Make it harder every year. Because, oh my gosh, it's one of the most important.
00:15:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:15:30
Caroline
Yeah.
00:15:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin Patterson was able to pass that certification without breaking a sweat.
00:15:38
Caroline
Yeah, see, she's super smart.
00:15:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she went to work as an air traffic controller. She was a menace, not because she's she's not good at her job.
00:15:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She was most definitely competent. Following her graduation, she worked as an air traffic controller with Air Services Australia in Melbourne between February 2001 and November 2002.
00:16:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, a little over a year, basically. Well,
00:16:11
Caroline
Just under two.
00:16:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Almost two years, yeah.
00:16:12
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She was very cruel to her co-workers, scheming all the time, arguing with anyone and everyone about anything and everything. She was rude.
00:16:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She was deceitful. She was rude and deceitful, aggressive, and generally toxic.
00:16:31
Caroline
oh
00:16:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She's what we would call today a toxic co-worker.
00:16:37
Caroline
yeah
00:16:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She ran a scheme, for example, she ran a scheme by which she pretended to be a co-worker calling in sick, thereby knowing that she would be offered the shift by default.
00:16:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then when she would show up for the shift, the other person would show up and they would be sent home because they called in sick.
00:16:59
Caroline
Because they were ill.
00:17:01
Caroline
That's...
00:17:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they would stand there going, no, I didn't.
00:17:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, you're sick, so you probably don't remember.
00:17:05
Caroline
Oh my god. That's really diabolical. That seems like a scene from a movie. Almost it seems too... Too treacherous.
00:17:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, her motive, apparently, i don't think she feels motivated to be rude. I think that she is wired to be rude.
00:17:21
Caroline
Yeah.
00:17:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she's not scheming to be scheming. She is hardwired to be scheming.
00:17:27
Caroline
Right.
00:17:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she did this particular scheme to get better shifts. So she decided what shift she wanted, figured out who was on shift, and called in sick for that person.
00:17:41
Caroline
just I mean, this is wrong, but this is that slippery slope I'm talking about because this is that innovation. Like it makes me think of the scene from the movie where Will Smith is like pursuit of happiness and he's like, I don't put the phone down. i just click it with the one finger and dial. He's like, I save a second per phone call. That means I get to make five extra phone calls per day. That puts me up. but I mean, it's not a wrong methodology for success. It's just then you apply it like she did here.
00:18:08
Caroline
You're hurting other people, you know, as a means to accomplish it.
00:18:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:18:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, you know, I don't know about this particular employer, but I was in human resources for 40 some years total.
00:18:20
Caroline
Yeah.
00:18:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I don't think I ever met a manager who wanted to confront a mean, nasty employer because they're afraid of the backlash.
00:18:30
Caroline
Yeah.
00:18:33
Caroline
Absolutely.
00:18:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So they just have little talks and
00:18:36
Caroline
Yep.
00:18:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then they give a warning. And then they give a second first warning.
00:18:43
Caroline
I love those.
00:18:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Then they get a third first warning. This has either changed or radically since I left nine years ago or and retired.
00:18:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
aunt Or it's still going on today.
00:19:02
Caroline
Yeah.
00:19:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Managers and supervisors Just do not want to confront a nasty, nasty, nasty, scheming, lying employee.
00:19:06
Caroline
Yeah.
00:19:10
Caroline
Yeah. yeah I think that's, that yes. And I think it's it's not even just in the employment context anymore. I think in public, we don't want to confront these people.
00:19:21
Caroline
I think in our worlds, we just want to just get them the hell away from us so that we don't have to deal with it.
00:19:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, God, yeah.
00:19:27
Caroline
You're right. You're right. no but Yeah, nobody wants to deal with that.
00:19:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In 2004, Erin worked as an animal management employee. She still goes by Erin Scudder. She's not married yet, but she's fixing to be married. 2004, Erin worked as an animal management employee for RSPCA Australia at the Monash City Council's headquarters.
00:19:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And in that same year, she began dating Simon Patterson, who worked as an engineer at Monash City Council. Now, Simon liked Erin because she was had a great sense of humor.
00:20:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i would say dark, but anyway, a great sense of humor. And she was so intelligent. He was really drawn to that. They had two children together after they married. And after they started having kids, you know, things kind of didn't go that well.
00:20:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Before those kids came along, though, Erin came into a very large inheritance from her grandmother's estate. We're talking millions of dollars, Caroline.
00:20:34
Caroline
Really?
00:20:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, I need a grandmother. Anyway, so before the kids, Erin and Simon decided to use some of that money to travel extensively.
00:20:46
Caroline
Yeah.
00:20:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They lived for a short time in West Australia, And Aaron owned an old bookstore there, and then they went to, like, Darwin, and then they went to Europe, and then they went.
00:20:57
Caroline
Fun.
00:20:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know where all they went, but they traveled and they spent some of that money.
00:21:01
Caroline
would cheer me right up.
00:21:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It would cheer me ah up, too. They also acquired some property and stuff like that, so they were well off. Over the ensuing years, Aaron and Simon would split up, get back together, split up, get back together, over and over and over. Basically, they temporarily separated a lot until they finally separated for good in 2015.
00:21:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Sort of. I say sort of because in 2015, they finally did it for good. But they still went on family vacations together.
00:21:35
Caroline
I mean, this is, you know, the new normal.
00:21:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They... Well, I can see that, you know.
00:21:37
Caroline
Yeah.
00:21:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
If you have a good relationship, you can do that. They went to South Africa with the kids. They went to Botswana with the kids. They went to Darwin. They went to New Zealand. They went to South Australia. They went all over.
00:21:49
Caroline
That's cool. This sounds really nice.
00:21:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
On vacation. Yeah, it does.
00:21:52
Caroline
and
00:21:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Then in 2011, Erin's father died. And in 2019, when her mother died, the vast estate of properties and wealth that they had was split between Erin and her sister.
00:22:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This furthered Erin's wealth, of course. And she just did whatever she wanted to do. She would enroll in this, enroll in that, start the studies, quit the studies, raise the kids, try different things.
00:22:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She was just, you know, she had a lot of money.
00:22:24
Caroline
I mean, it sounds like a really nice lifestyle. Honestly, it sounds a little bit akin to one of those bored housewives in the 50s and 60s kind of lives where you, you know, that can go dark real fast when you're bored intellectually.
00:22:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, most, most human beings, all over the world probably, but ah we'll just talk about the ones that we've researched. Most human beings seek ah stasis, stability, for things to kind of stay the same.
00:22:55
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Then you break it up. It's called a vacation.
00:22:57
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
then you might have a midlife crisis and you go into another field of study because your kids are in college or maybe even out of college.
00:23:04
Caroline
Right. Yeah.
00:23:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But I think this sort of marks Aaron as being, you know, unstable.
Resentment and Revenge Motives
00:23:13
Caroline
Yeah, she's like you said, feckless all over the place and has been forever. But she's mean while doing it, which is which I'm I guess I'm finding a conflict there.
00:23:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah.
00:23:23
Caroline
Typically, feckless people are in my totally stereotyped mind, cool, chill people that just simply don't know what they want to do. But like, right.
00:23:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right, yeah. Like la-di-da-di-da-di-da.
00:23:35
Caroline
And they're all smart.
00:23:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:23:36
Caroline
But like, she's uber smart. And could literally pick anything, has interests maybe. I don't know. She's feigning interests. But then pivots, like you're saying. Just like that the two aren't meshing for me, the two behaviors.
00:23:52
Caroline
I don't know.
00:23:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And what's dangerous about this, in my opinion, is that she has it in her mind that she is impervious to the forces of life as a human being on planet Earth.
00:24:05
Caroline
Yeah, like karma, right? Like the good energy out, good energy back, bad energy out, bad energy back kind of thing.
00:24:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, well, I'm talking about the fact that, ah you know, she is her she's training her brain to not be accountable for normal social mores and norms.
00:24:29
Caroline
Yeah, yeah, right.
00:24:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And whereas, ah you know, most of us feel like we want to belong to a larger community.
00:24:38
Caroline
Right. Yeah. Yeah. yeah
00:24:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um so anyway, back inside, ah back back in the story here, story here Because inside of Erin Patterson might be a world record of resentment and revenge urge.
00:24:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think she has revenge on her mind all the time against imagined or real, you know, insults, um this divorce.
00:25:05
Caroline
yeah
00:25:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, she made her husband... pay for a lot of stuff with those kids until somebody in the court system told him she is independently wealthy. You do not owe her any money.
00:25:21
Caroline
Aww.
00:25:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And yeah, she owes you money, you know, that kind of thing.
00:25:21
Caroline
Yeah, I was going to say, the court needs to step up and help people in these areas more.
00:25:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's right. That's right. Anyway, let's talk about the events prior to the murder. In 2022,
00:25:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Aaron and Simon's relationship deteriorated after he filed a tax return, which was the first one he'd ever filed that he listed as being single.
00:25:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And why would he do such a thing? Due to this change in his relationship status, which I just mentioned a minute ago, Aaron became ineligible for government child support payments.
00:26:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
with Simon being told by a federal government agency to stop paying for his children's school fees and medical fees, while Simon claimed that this change in status was the result of a mistake by his accountant.
00:26:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He didn't want Aaron to be mad at him the
00:26:23
Caroline
Isn't that funny, Steve? bunny see even he's a ah afraid to confront this.
00:26:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
him. Oh, yeah, oh, yeah.
00:26:26
Caroline
He doesn't.
00:26:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The incident did, though, damage the couple's relationship. And why would he do something like this and then blame it on another person, this ah fictitious or maybe real accountant?
00:26:44
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:26:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Fear, maybe?
00:26:45
Caroline
Totally.
00:26:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, there's I'm going to so i'm goingnna state as a matter of fact in my head that exists. I don't know for an investigative process fact, but I know for a fact.
00:26:56
Caroline
Right.
00:26:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The reason that he is scared to death is because between November 21st and September 22nd, so we're talking almost a year, Simon was hospitalized three times with gastrointestinal symptoms that were very mysterious, with the second incident resulting in him being in a coma and requiring life-saving surgery.
00:27:11
Caroline
god. Oh my god.
00:27:20
Caroline
Uh...
00:27:25
Caroline
ah
00:27:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He had to get part of his intestines removed, Caroline.
00:27:28
Caroline
I think we just found the red flag making factory in this story.
00:27:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Uh-huh.
00:27:33
Caroline
Like, oh my God.
00:27:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes. Yes.
00:27:35
Caroline
ah She's, she's, she's, I'm sorry.
00:27:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:27:38
Caroline
I'm looking at the dates and she's a, she's an air controller at this time. So she's hating everyone. and like, she's trying to kill her husband.
00:27:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:27:48
Caroline
Oh my God.
00:27:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
a medical and medical expert report commissioned for the trial of the killings stated that Simon's symptoms were consistent with the ingestion of barium carbonate, an ingredient in rat poison.
00:28:01
Caroline
jesus jesus yeah
00:28:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
These incidents were not pursued once Erin was arrested and charged with triple murder and attempted murder of ah her one surviving poison victim. So it gets kind of complicated, and I am going to give you a timeline in a minute.
00:28:17
Caroline
yeah
00:28:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In the two years leading up to the family lunch on July 29, 2003, where death was on the menu, Erin's relationship with her in-laws had become estranged.
00:28:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin missed several family events, attending some others only briefly. briefly Erin believed that she had been snubbed when she received a late invitation to her mother-in-law Gail's 70th birthday celebration around May 23.
00:28:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin had also posted several social media messages to her friends online criticizing her estranged husband and her in-laws. So she's peeved that Simon is not doing what she says to do anymore and he's not giving her money anymore and these in-laws are snubbing her because probably they think that she tried to kill him three times.
00:29:12
Caroline
Oh yeah. Oh yeah.
00:29:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, so she is seething with private rage and revenge motives and And ah the world is going to see that when the trial comes along.
00:29:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So let's bring it on. Let's talk about the the deadly lunch and the deaths. And I first want to say she murdered loving, caring, community-based, beloved people.
00:29:38
Caroline
so yeah
00:29:43
Caroline
Well, she lured them with a false love as well. She it just is nasty, bad, nasty, bad.
00:29:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:29:52
Caroline
Diabolical and evil, like you said, don't even rise to the occasion here. What?
00:29:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, ah you know, it makes you want to go back to burning witches at the stake. So anyway, Erin had moved into the countryside because she's loaded with money and she built her own home now that, you know, her ex-husband is going to actually act this way.
00:30:13
Caroline
Yeah.
00:30:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she had just finished when her mind turned to murderous revenge. I'm in this big, beautiful home. This is my big, beautiful home. I have my children half the time, and I love my children, but I don't want them half the time. I want them all the time.
00:30:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I'm reading her mind here, so obviously this is just my opinion, but I believe that she just put it in her mind.
00:30:33
Caroline
yeah
00:30:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't want this family any anymore. They don't treat me right. We'll see what they think of me now after I do what I'm fixing to do. And I believe she began to think like a murderer, act like a murderer, and she became a murderer.
00:30:54
Caroline
Well, it does make me question whether she actually did or did not kill any dogs or cats early in her life because this poison stuff is serious. I mean, this is very hidden. This is very diabolical, like because it is so hidden.
00:31:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, there's no worse death.
00:31:06
Caroline
Yeah.
00:31:08
Caroline
yeah
00:31:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No worse death.
00:31:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So months before the murder, Erin was interacting with a large group of YouTubers and Facebookers. She spent a lot of time online, which is great for her trial because she's making comments up the gazelle, you know.
00:31:25
Caroline
Yeah.
00:31:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Anyway, she told all of these people that she's, you know, speaking to she told them about her glorious interest and skills and success in identifying and foraging mushrooms. Now,
00:31:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Why this? So in Australia, julia during lockdown for COVID, which was 2020, citizens could take two hours a day to go and do things like shop or go outside.
00:31:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They still had to social distance, but they had to stay indoors the rest of the time. So Erin took her kids mushroom picking and was enthralled with this new love.
00:32:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
telling her online community that she pulsated mushrooms into a powder and put them in her kids' brownies and they couldn't tell.
00:32:15
Caroline
Dangerous.
00:32:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um God. She smack-talked online with her ex-husband. I mean, about her ex-husband. She smack-talked his family savagely in between her little nature romps.
00:32:32
Caroline
Hmm.
00:32:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then on one of the websites she frequented about mushrooms, Erin saw what she needed to accomplish her murderous plot.
00:32:44
Caroline
m
00:32:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There's a site called iNaturalist. It's a web-based repository of information about the natural world. And on the mesh mushroom front, people would post their findings where they found this or that mushroom.
00:33:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Aaron noticed weeks before the murders that death cat mushrooms had been found in three regions under oak trees where they grow. This meant a warning to all people about the deadly horrors of consuming death-cap mushrooms.
00:33:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
People all over were dispatched as volunteers to go and pick and destroy these death-cap mushrooms if they were found. And the government picked put up these huge signs where the mushrooms were found to be liking to grow around the oak tree.
00:33:32
Caroline
Oh, wow.
00:33:37
Caroline
Yeah.
00:33:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They only grow around oak trees.
00:33:40
Caroline
Yeah.
00:33:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um And they put up these signs so if anybody just, you know, serendipitously came upon this site and found these mushrooms, there was a big sign telling them, don't eat these mushrooms.
00:33:47
Caroline
Yeah.
00:33:53
Caroline
They would know. Don't touch
00:33:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Don't eat any mushrooms in this area.
00:33:57
Caroline
I mean, not the work of the noxious weed folks in all communities across globe is really difficult. It's difficult work.
00:34:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It is difficult work. Erin did research on her laptop and how many death cat mushrooms were needed to poison one person fatally.
00:34:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So then she found another website with a mathematical thing where you could say how much you needed of something and how many would you need if there were five people.
00:34:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Like, you know, if you wanted to put ah this spice in a food,
00:34:36
Caroline
Yeah.
00:34:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
how and how much would you need for five? And then she would just put in the kilograms of what you, you know, she just, it was online what she was doing.
00:34:47
Caroline
I know. And you, forensically, they can really piece together almost everything that a user is doing online, picture by picture, frame by frame.
00:34:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She was...
00:34:56
Caroline
But they don't, I think the only things that they're limited on is to see like what area on the page you were focused on. Right. So if it's like a series of links, but otherwise, yeah, they would have known she's 20 minutes.
00:35:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i mean, she was on a... She was on single-purpose pages, believe me. I mean, she how much does it take to kill you times five?
00:35:09
Caroline
Yeah.
00:35:12
Caroline
That's so crazy. Yeah.
00:35:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. Erin Patterson arranged for a lunch. She indicated to her invitees that it was just vital that she meet with them for a special lunch in order to discuss her recent health diagnosis and how her children will need help.
00:35:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
you know, so and so forth, and please help her determine the best way to tell them, given their tender ages of nine and seven at the time.
00:35:45
Caroline
Uh-huh.
00:35:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The kids would not be present. The invitees were ex-husband Simon Patterson, his parents, Don and Gail Patterson, her aunt-in-law, Heather Wilkinson, who is Gail's sister And Gail's sister's husband, Ian Wilkinson, who was also the preacher at the Baptist Church where Erin once attended before she and Simon had split.
00:36:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, you know, coming of easing up to this invitation, she went to the church.
00:36:20
Caroline
Yeah.
00:36:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She went to the church in person and asked the pastor in person to come with his wife to this lunch. I really need your guidance.
00:36:31
Caroline
she
00:36:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I have a serious illness.
00:36:33
Caroline
It's like a nurse ratchet over here. Just oof.
00:36:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Worse than that. Erin made a big deal about how she is learning how to make this important lunch of beef wellington. You know, I'm going all out. I'm going to make beef wellington.
00:36:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, beef wellington is a juicy flank of beef covered in finely crusted, dried, and powdered mushrooms and spices of all sorts.
00:36:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they then it's slipped inside of a puff puffy crust.
00:37:04
Caroline
who
00:37:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And once done, it's got you've got this long, puffy, you know, yummy thing that is usually, so you know, sliced into and
00:37:10
Caroline
Looks like bread, but then you... Yeah.
00:37:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
cuts and it's very pretty when it's cut and put on a plate, and it's very tasty. She was also planting mashed potatoes and green beans, very traditional with this dish.
00:37:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So weeks before the meal, Erin spent a great deal of time hydrating her death cat mushrooms and some other non-lethal mushrooms and sought out all the spices needed to mix with the mushrooms.
00:37:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Then came the test of her, you know, plan because Simon texted her and told her in this text, I've decided not to take you up on the lunch that's for the 29th because I just don't feel comfortable.
00:38:04
Caroline
yeah
00:38:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She told him, hey
00:38:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I have slaved over this beef wellington. I have spent a ton of money on this beef and all the spices and everything. And I really need you to be there. I expect to see you.
00:38:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I expect to see you. But he did not come. So he's starting to break away from her grip.
00:38:26
Caroline
well
00:38:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
but not her in-laws. Her in-laws were kind of like, you know, this is good. I mean, we can kind of get back together and, you know, we don't need to bust up the family. For the children, we really ought to maybe give it a go.
00:38:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i mean, that was the discussion. These are good people, forgiving people.
00:38:40
Caroline
um Yeah, I mean, they're the grandparents. They are probably up for walking through whatever kind of fire they need to with this lady in order to have and maintain that relationship with their grandkids.
00:38:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Sure. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:38:55
Caroline
That's pretty normal. But Simon's over here like, I've seen things in my coma. So no, thank you. Yeah.
00:39:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm starting to come to life again now that you have failed at killing me.
00:39:08
Caroline
yeah
00:39:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um So the kids are out of the house. Erin told her in-laws that she had made them each individual beef wellingtons.
00:39:20
Caroline
Now that's weird, right?
00:39:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
What?
00:39:21
Caroline
Like that's not, I've never seen one on a Martha Stewart TikTok or anything.
00:39:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah. Right. This is like somebody saying, would you like a stick of, would anyone like a stick of gum? And everybody says yes. So you go get a knife and you cut your stick of gum into these little pieces?
00:39:35
Caroline
Right.
00:39:38
Caroline
Like what?
00:39:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's ridiculous. They come in a pack.
00:39:39
Caroline
It's weird.
00:39:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Idiot. So anyway, Beef Wellington is supposed to be this long, gorgeous, you know, browned, know, and you cut it into these slices.
00:39:47
Caroline
Right.
00:39:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But that's not what she did. Each Beef Wellington serving was was not sliced from a whole. mean, to me, this is... Like a Beef Wellington pizza roll, I guess it would look like.
00:40:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, your own little... I don't know.
00:40:07
Caroline
ah that might be good though actually like as an appetizer that sounds kind of good
00:40:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You could no more get me around a Beef Wellington now, knowing me that it has all those pictures in
00:40:14
Caroline
I know it is I love watching them be made though not gonna lie that is a classic to watch
00:40:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it. Yeah, well, I'm going to wear my mask. Anyway... You know, her guests all wanted to see her new house. They were being very courteous, and they didn't want to let her down.
00:40:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The other thing they wanted to do was see her pantry, which they knew was, you know, palatial, but she wouldn't let them in.
00:40:40
Caroline
Yeah. Interesting.
00:40:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She wouldn't let them in to her pantry.
00:40:45
Caroline
Now, you always you always told me never eat at a restaurant where you cannot see the kitchen.
00:40:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
What's in that pantry?
00:40:51
Caroline
Same science.
00:40:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's right.
00:40:53
Caroline
Where it operates here.
00:40:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:40:54
Caroline
If somebody's not letting me in their pantry, but they're offering me dinner, mmm.
00:40:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I know, they didn't, they should have called me. She served them lunch on tan plates, or gray plates, I think the media calls them, kind of off-white plates.
00:41:10
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:41:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But then she served them all, had them sit exactly where she wanted them to sit, even though this is family. But you're, you know, you're just putting them, this is your place, this is your place, this is your place.
00:41:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then she got a brown and orange plate, smaller, and she put a serving on it. And um she took ah one of the, you know, one of the pizza roll looking things that are should have been just a sliced car.
00:41:42
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:41:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So in other words, she made her own.
00:41:48
Caroline
yeah
00:41:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She sat down and they all ate. She told them that she had ovarian cancer. How do I tell the kids?
00:42:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
What am I going She knew they would devise a plan right there at the dinner table having beef wellington. course, she's having somewhat beef wellington.
00:42:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they all were raving about how good it tasted. And they told her how much they loved her. They prayed together with her about her
00:42:22
Caroline
Yeah, I see.
00:42:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Soon her odyssey of cancer treatment. And um they plan to support her. And now she knew she wasn't ill at all.
00:42:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she knew that they would not find out that she lied about being ill because they would all be dead.
00:42:44
Caroline
This is what makes this like an exceptionally scary diabolical evil because she lured them in with a known trap. You know, it's no different than Ted Bundy putting on the cast and asking for help, you know, from these young unassuming women.
00:43:01
Caroline
Same thing.
00:43:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Absolutely. um Now I'm going to talk about some difficult things. I'm going to talk about the few days that it took for people to die. And I'll sum it up briefly. There's a lot more out there on the internet that you could read.
00:43:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But when you ingest death cat mushrooms, you are mindless for a few hours before feeling the first signs of what is going to happen to you. Sometimes you don't feel it until the morning after.
00:43:28
Caroline
Right. Yeah.
00:43:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
All of Erin Patterson's victims... ah raved to Erin about what a great job she'd done with the Beef Wellington. And they expressed such gladness that their relationship with their grandchildren, their nephew, their niece, whatever the relationship was, their congregant, etc., could be restored post-split with Simon.
00:43:55
Caroline
yeah
00:43:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they're probably secretly thinking, now that this probably means she's going to leave Simon alone too.
00:44:00
Caroline
Fingers crossed.
00:44:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In a few hours, they would have felt very ill, though. Vomiting, diarrhea, that in enormous seizing and pain in the gut.
00:44:12
Caroline
Yeah.
00:44:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
on Never imagined kind of pain. According to the physician trying to save all four of them, all four of them presented to the hospital with severe symptoms and were treated by a team led by Dr. Stephen Marilau, who is director of intensive care at Austin Health.
00:44:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And this is in, then they sent them to a different a hospital where they can get even more than treatment. But the doctor team went with them. That organ failure began in their livers, which is the toxin from the death cat mushroom targets first.
00:44:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Dr. Marilau said that it's just the beginning of a horrible ordeal for all of the
How Death Cap Mushrooms Kill
00:45:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
victims. Once the liver fails, it tends to drag down all the other body organs with it, he said.
00:45:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So whilst the liver is the first organ to be affected, what soon follows is kidney failure, circulatory failure, and more general metabolic failure, and then death.
00:45:24
Caroline
Wow. Geez. Yeah.
00:45:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You go into a coma, which happens to people in active dying. um you know toward the end.
00:45:32
Caroline
yeah
00:45:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So whilst the liver is the first organ to be affected, you can see the dominoes fall. The blood sugar in the patient's blood collapses. They get a buildup of ammonia, the same as using a floor cleaner.
00:45:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So it's very serious brain toxin. And they then develop a profound coma and really the whole body starts shutting down.
00:45:59
Caroline
wow
00:46:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In the end, steve see Simon's parents, Dawn and Gail, Heather Wilkinson, again, she's Gail's sister, and Gail's husband, Ian Wilkinson, faced death.
00:46:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
All went into a coma eventually and died, all but for Ian. He was near death, and they were able to find a donor for a liver transplant.
00:46:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they put a new liver inside of him and crossed their fingers. He was two months in the hospital before they were so sure that he was going to survive. So, of course, now this meant that the undoing of this diabolical assassin, Aaron Patterson, was going to be outed because now he knew everything
00:46:43
Caroline
Yeah.
00:46:46
Caroline
He could walk through what happened. Yeah.
00:46:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He can recount everything that happened. Apparently on the way to the hospital, his wife said to him, she ate on a different plate.
00:46:58
Caroline
That's smart to say out loud in a, you know,
00:47:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's all she said. And he, she was, you know, in delirious pain.
00:47:04
Caroline
I thought the same thing when you were reading it. Did she wipe these mushrooms on these white gray plates as a fail safe in case someone said I'm a vegan or something?
00:47:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, i think she knew their robust appetites for Beast Wellington would be a certain way to kill them. Now, Ian could have been a picky eater, but I doubt it.
00:47:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She probably would have made another, you know, all indications to me are that she had ah ah self-assurance that this was going to lead to death.
00:47:32
Caroline
Something. Yeah.
00:47:42
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Remember, she did the math.
00:47:45
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Erin now knows, imagine her panic when she realizes that there's a survivor.
00:47:47
Caroline
That's true.
00:47:52
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:56
Caroline
Yep.
00:47:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin immediately realized she needed to get rid of that dehydrator so she could take, so what she did, she took it to the tip. Now the tip is like the transfer station or the dump.
00:48:09
Caroline
yeah I mean hello you purchased it anyway they're going to see you purchase one
00:48:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She took it to the tip. Did she think for one minute that they might have cameras there?
00:48:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She realized she needed to claim that she too was ill. So she's putting it together like, I have to pretend like I've got the same thing.
00:48:29
Caroline
that way if they come back to my god diabolical
00:48:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She took herself to a hospital with faux diarrhea and vomiting. The hospital wanted to test her for death cap and also her children. She came and went from the hospital several times.
00:48:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She stopped at a gas station and feigned terrible stomach trouble and set it up so that she could be picked up by a TV inside the station when she marched to the restroom.
00:48:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That'd be a great ruse except for the fact that she was in there only nine seconds and it didn't occur to her that that TV is still going.
00:49:07
Caroline
Yeah. It's going to time.
00:49:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This is a lady who only thinks about herself. She does not think about the perception of others or really thinking through that she is not the king of the world, queen of the world, excuse me.
00:49:18
Caroline
Right. Right.
00:49:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Then after she you know ran out of that bathroom after nine seconds, she purchased a whole lot of snacks. Now, they're called snacks in the literature, but she I'll tell you in a minute what she purchased, and they're not snacks.
00:49:33
Caroline
Yeah.
00:49:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They're like one meal after another.
00:49:35
Caroline
Good
00:49:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So all of that is caught on TV. And the press began to haunt her. A doctor called the police. to tell the story of the three deaths, the near-death Ian, and the check-in and check-out behavior of Aaron Patterson.
Family's Love and Medical Challenges
00:49:55
Caroline
for that, doctor.
00:49:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He said, that's weird, and I'm going to let you know that...
00:49:59
Caroline
Absolutely. I think doctors ought to get more involved and I just want to tell a story of what happened to me today.
00:50:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, they have to contact they had to contact the police once they realized it was Death Cat Mushrooms, but that took a while because of toxicology.
00:50:10
Caroline
Oh, okay. Okay.
00:50:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So police got a search warrant for Erin's house when this came in from the doctor. Eventually, she was arrested. A word about the care team in the hospital is in order here, Caroline, because before I leave the hospital, I want to tell you, this is what the lead physician said about the victims.
00:50:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He said all of the family circled around the victims as they clung to life. Quote, they were remarkably gracious and dignified throughout their attention and love that they expressed toward the critically ill.
00:50:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They never left their sides. And he said for everyone around, knowing that death was the end of their ordeal, it was very inspiring to just see the outpouring of love.
00:50:52
Caroline
Thank
00:51:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They always expressed considerable gratitude and thanks for particularly to the bedside nursing team and the medical team who worked so hard to try and save their lives of their loved ones.
00:51:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he stated that all at the hospital who were involved in this are haunted forever. Because remember, during this process, they have a rebound and they start thanking everyone.
00:51:27
Caroline
Yes.
00:51:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, thank God. Thank you, God. for Thank you so much, doctor, for helping me. And the doctor knows what's going to happen next.
00:51:37
Caroline
Yeah.
00:51:40
Caroline
Oh, geez.
00:51:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So it just was a horrible thing. So let's talk about the conviction and sentencing. And I think that the way that I want to tell this, because, I mean, you know, this trial took nine weeks.
00:51:58
Caroline
Seems kind of fast.
00:51:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then she was, oh, it was long. It was long.
00:52:01
Caroline
Yeah.
00:52:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
On April 18th, this is what led to her being found guilty, is my point.
00:52:07
Caroline
This timeline kind of.
00:52:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Here's the timeline.
00:52:09
Caroline
OK.
00:52:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
April 18th, 2023, a post on iNaturalist, a website for tracking plants and fungi, records death cat mushrooms growing in the loch area.
00:52:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Three different sites in this area on the map called loch. April 28, 2023, Erin Patterson's mobile service records indicate, you know how they can track you on your phone, where have you been, where the car has been?
00:52:34
Caroline
The tower pings. Totally.
00:52:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it indicated a possible visit to lock the two out of the three places, according to the telecommunications expert, Dr. Matthew Sorrell. Erin Patterson also buys a food hydrator from Hartley Wells Beta Electric store in Leongatha, where she lived. That's the name of the little town.
00:52:58
Caroline
Okay, so in April, she knew what she was trying to do.
00:53:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, that's why i say diabolical.
00:53:04
Caroline
Yeah. Yep.
00:53:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
May 21st, 2023, another post on iNaturalist shares the exact location of death cat mushrooms growing in a place called Outram.
00:53:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She went there too.
00:53:18
Caroline
Wow.
00:53:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin's mobile phone data suggests she traveled to Locke and Outram both.
00:53:24
Caroline
In May. Oh my God.
00:53:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
On July 16, 2023, Aaron Patterson attends a service at the Caramboro Baptist Church and invites Don, Gail, and Simon Patterson and Ian and Heather Wilkinson to the lunch on July 29, 2023.
00:53:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
two thousand twenty three Simon Patterson messages Aaron Patterson saying on July 18th, 2023, Simon Patterson messages Aaron Patterson that he will not come to the lunch because he feels too uncomfortable.
00:54:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Five minutes later, she replies, that's really disappointing. I've spent many hours, but blah, blah, blah, blah. I spent a small fortune on beef eye fillet. making beef wellingtons because I wanted it to be a special meal and I may not be able to host a lunch like this ever again because I'm seriously ill. It is important for me that you are all there tomorrow.
00:54:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Simon did not reply. The lunch was held at Aaron Patterson's Lee and Yatha home on the next day, July 29, 2023.
00:54:32
Caroline
Thank you.
00:54:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And
00:54:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
three and ah Erin Patterson hosted the Fatal Mushroom Lunch at her home in Lean Gotham. I've already talked about that. And her in-laws, Dawn and Gail Patterson, Gail's sister, Heather Wilkinson, her husband, Ian, arrived just before noon.
00:54:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They share in pleasant conversation before Erin Patterson tells the lie that she's been diagnosed with ovarian cancer and asks for advice on how to tell her children.
00:55:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The guests give their advice, offer their well wishes, and they pray together. Later that night, Don and Gail Patterson and Heather and Ian Wilkinson become incredibly sick with what they thought was gastro.
00:55:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
July 30, 2023, the day after the deadly lunch, the day after the deadly lunch Don and Gail Patterson go by ambulance to Corumbore Hospital in the morning before being transported to Danganong Hospital in the evening in Melbourne.
00:55:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's a Melbourne hospital. It's not a local hospital. It's a regional hospital.
00:55:44
Caroline
Oh, yeah.
00:55:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Simon Patterson takes Heather and Ian Wilkinson to Lee and Gotha Hospital. These are his parents. His parents.
00:55:53
Caroline
And he probably knows, he probably knows right away what has gone on.
00:55:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Can you imagine how... oh
00:55:58
Caroline
He knew it.
00:56:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes. And that very day, Erin Patterson says she suffers from diarrhea and nausea that began on the evening following the lunch as she drives her son to a flying lesson, which was later canceled.
00:56:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then CCTV shows her at the service station where she spends nine seconds in the bathroom before purchasing, here it comes, the little snack, a ham and cheese toastie, a sweet chili chicken wrap, and some lollipops.
00:56:29
Caroline
Oh my gosh, that's so Aussie. Lollies. Some lollies. Mommy can't have some lollies.
00:56:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:56:35
Caroline
hu
00:56:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:56:36
Caroline
Wow, those are milk that you said.
00:56:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She then, she she says she then serves her children leftovers from the beef Wellington meal, although that is doubtful in my mind. She says she's scraped the mushrooms off because the kids don't like mushrooms, but they never had symptoms of any gastro distress.
00:56:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And at the trial, it came out that, you know, the scientists are saying you can't scrape off something that's been cooked on top of.
00:57:00
Caroline
Yeah, right.
00:57:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, the toxins would have just seeped right into the beef.
00:57:04
Caroline
That's it.
00:57:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So on July 31st, 2023, Erin Patterson goes to Lee and Gotha Hospital about 8 in the morning, leaves about 8.10 before returning again at 9.48. Then she was later taken to Monash Medical Center by ambulance.
00:57:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Her children were also brought to the hospital as a precautionary. A local police officer is sent to get the beef wellington leftovers from a bin at Aaron Patterson's home, and they are later sent to the Royal Botanic Gardens in South Yarra by taxi to be investigated and find the toxins.
00:57:44
Caroline
Wow. Wow.
00:57:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Erin Patterson is discharged from Monash Medical Center on August 1. On August 2, as seen on CCTV, Erin Patterson drives her red car to Kunawara Transfer Station and landfill and dumps her food dehydrator in an e-waste bin, environmental waste bin.
00:58:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Monash Council begins attending Asian grocery stores in Melbourne's southeast to try and find mushrooms matching Erin Patterson's description. So when the police called her in she they said, where'd you get the mushrooms?
00:58:26
Caroline
Right.
00:58:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
First, she said, i don't eat mushrooms.
00:58:30
Caroline
Oh, stop.
00:58:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Then she said, okay you know, they tell her, well, we know that there were mushrooms because that's what is killing these people. And she said, okay, well, I did i got them. Now, okay, yeah, now I remember.
00:58:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I got them back in the, you know, back in the spring from an Asian grocer.
00:58:48
Caroline
Um.
00:58:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I i'll also foraged some near my house.
00:58:51
Caroline
Well, yeah, I mean, she is a forager. So it's not that was a hobby she picked up. and So to say I don't eat mushrooms is like a weird thing to say.
00:59:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, she's a liar.
00:59:01
Caroline
Obviously, given all the circumstances, wouldn't you squirt your brain?
00:59:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Like lying is her go-to. She thinks everybody is just a cardboard cutout of a human and she's the only human.
00:59:06
Caroline
Yeah.
00:59:08
Caroline
Right.
00:59:11
Caroline
Right.
00:59:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And this is what humans humans do to the cardboard.
00:59:13
Caroline
Right.
00:59:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You just lie to them. They're never going check that out.
00:59:17
Caroline
They'll be dead if they do, so don't worry.
00:59:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, right, right.
00:59:19
Caroline
Right.
00:59:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, you know, I'm speculating.
00:59:23
Caroline
Right. That seems pretty spot on.
00:59:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But I mean, you know, if it's puddled outside, I'm thinking, well, before I went out, it was raining. So I am drawing a conclusion of my own.
00:59:31
Caroline
Right. The deduction.
00:59:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, yes, thank you. So Victoria Police's Homicide Squad launches an investigation into the lunch. They find a handbook for the Sunbeam Dehydrator in a drawer, and they can tell it's new.
00:59:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Erin tells them that she never foraged for mushrooms. They take her phone and computers and find plenty of evidence to the contrary.
00:59:55
Caroline
It's just so weird.
00:59:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They examine the video from the trip. They find her there on video. They discover the dehydrator. They find the toxins. They found a whole lot of other evidence. But needless to say, this and many other lies came together, and the jury found her guilty ah four felony murders and one attempted murder, lying to the police and so forth.
01:00:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Her trial was very long, She took the witness stand. She was very good until she had to explain all these lies, and then she made up reasons why she had to lie because she felt so bad and so guilty about foraging or finding or buying or whatever she did, these mushrooms.
01:00:43
Caroline
Yeah.
01:00:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But the, I mean, you know, yeah, yeah.
01:00:47
Caroline
Wow.
01:00:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
the um The fact that because of Ian's survival,
01:00:54
Caroline
Yeah.
01:00:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They knew about the separate plates.
01:00:58
Caroline
Yeah. Yep.
01:01:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They then found out during the trial that um Simon had been hospitalized previously, but they couldn't say that it was, they knew it wasn't Deathcap or he'd be dead.
01:01:09
Caroline
for like
01:01:14
Caroline
right
01:01:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um but she definitely gave him that carbonate what sodium carbonate or whatever that is, the rat poison stuff.
01:01:21
Caroline
from the rat poison right
01:01:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But they didn't go into that. They had dropped the charges, but they did let it in that he was hospitalized three times in this period of time.
01:01:32
Caroline
Well, yeah, I mean, he's a great witness as a potential invite, too. And him saying no the night before and resisting the bullying and the gaslighting abuse that she threw at him, that's big.
01:01:43
Caroline
And one could say like, oh, yeah, he just really doesn't like her. Nope. It's because he's got this actual trauma from a previous attempted murder that he deep down. and now again, I'm just deducing because I do live in the human world and have had people pull the rug out from under me.
01:01:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
01:02:00
Caroline
You just carry that with you in a way that you may never say it to anybody, but you will never get yourself in a room alone with that person again.
01:02:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
01:02:08
Caroline
You know, like so he.
01:02:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. And the other thing that hurt her in trial was these nasty grams she sent to everybody about her family.
01:02:15
Caroline
Not due. So doesn't pay to not be authentic in as many of the spaces as possible.
01:02:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Okay, I'm going to do my Erin Patterson imitation. what it you made a You said a word there.
01:02:29
Caroline
Authentic.
01:02:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
what What does that mean? Is that like a spice? i mean, I'm sorry.
01:02:36
Caroline
It's poisonous.
01:02:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Her trial was very long. And the verdict, you know, they stayed out for a long time. and they went through everything. And the things that they could not believe about her were that they led to obvious evidence was the throwing away of the dehydrator, the fact that the dehydrator tested positive for the poison, the fact that her kids were out of the house, the fact that um she had been so demanding of Simon being there, um and the fact that she...
01:02:59
Caroline
Yeah.
Trial and Conviction Details
01:03:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
went to all these hospitals and then withdrew and then went back and then withdrew and then went back.
01:03:25
Caroline
yeah
01:03:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then the video of her in the store saying she had all this horrible gastro evidence that, you know, her meal was off, but she stayed nine seconds and then she was going to eat.
01:03:36
Caroline
Yeah. A bunch of fast foodie foodies and lollies and stuff like.
01:03:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Uh-huh.
01:03:43
Caroline
Yeah.
01:03:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, two sandwiches, a wrap and a sandwich and whatever else.
01:03:46
Caroline
Yeah.
01:03:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And meat. I mean, good God. So her trial was very long. The verdict was very clear. Guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty, guilty. Guilting of felony murder, which means premeditated.
01:04:01
Caroline
Well, yeah, I mean, she. Yeah.
01:04:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The judge, when he sentenced her, He went down. You got to watch this, listeners. It's out there on the Internet.
01:04:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You you know, the judge's entire talk from the bench, from start to finish, of all the aggravating circumstances.
01:04:24
Caroline
Wow. o You didn't like her.
01:04:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No mitigators.
01:04:29
Caroline
Oh, wow.
01:04:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
None. Zero. zero
01:04:32
Caroline
Yeah.
01:04:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um he sentenced her to... Now, bear in mind, murderers usually get 10 to 15 years there.
01:04:43
Caroline
Which is so shocking.
01:04:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They don't have long terms. They don't have long terms.
01:04:46
Caroline
Yeah, that's kind weird.
01:04:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, it's very weird. Serial killers and stuff, different. You know, you're going to be locked up forever.
01:04:53
Caroline
Oh.
01:04:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She was given a life term, but the judge decided to give her parole eligibility after 33 years when she will be 82, and
01:05:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he did that because he said, your prison experience will be worse than anyone's can ever say they have had.
Sentencing and Global Notoriety
01:05:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Because you are so notorious worldwide,
01:05:18
Caroline
oh
01:05:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
we you will probably serve your entire prison sentence in solitary.
01:05:26
Caroline
Wow. Yeah.
01:05:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so, to me, i just want to say that our victims today really don't deserve me laughing at the horrors of what this lady did.
01:05:43
Caroline
right
01:05:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm not laughing at the horrors of what she did.
01:05:46
Caroline
yeah
01:05:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm laughing at her like legendary, now worldwide, tops every chart of how diabolical, non-empathetic, only think about yourself.
01:06:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In fact, i've I've got a note here that I wrote to myself. that when I listen to Dr. Grande, which I listen to all the time, he covers some true crime and other current events, but he na he listed so many traits that she had of you know, malignant narcissism, vulnerable narcissism, psychopathy, all these things.
01:06:11
Caroline
You love Dr. Grande.
01:06:23
Caroline
Yeah.
01:06:27
Caroline
Yeah.
01:06:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I only wrote down a few because, you know, he was talking kind of fast, but he said she was eccentric and from the gut From the go.
01:06:36
Caroline
From jump.
01:06:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, she was all she was difficult,
01:06:37
Caroline
Yes.
01:06:39
Caroline
From jump. Yes.
01:06:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
constantly lying, very aggressive, very hard to get along with.
01:06:44
Caroline
yeah
01:06:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Her purpose for murder was because she just didn't want to be part of this family anymore.
01:06:58
Caroline
Well, that, right? ah She doesn't, she doesn't want, she wants to be ghosted by people. and the only way to do that is to kill them.
01:07:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So she's she's deceptive.
01:07:03
Caroline
Yeah.
01:07:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She's deceptive. She's irresponsible. She's manipulative. She's erratic. She's reckless. She's pessimistic. Everything about my life is bad.
01:07:17
Caroline
Right. 100%. Yeah.
01:07:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Vindictive. She has a sense of entitlement. And then he said, on his creepy scale, When she was arrested, he made a video and he said that she was midline creepy.
01:07:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But after she was sentenced and the court case had progressed, when I was listening to him, said that she was at the matt just met top, the maximum creepy that you can be as a human being.
01:07:51
Caroline
Yeah.
01:07:54
Caroline
Wow. You know, and honestly, mom, what scares me about it she reads just like your average quote unquote Karen. I mean, I kind of hate that term, but I think people recognize what it is. it's It's a person who's vindictive, going out of their way to make others miserable, like needs attention, feels entitled, you know, like so literally could be anybody.
01:08:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Needs attention.
01:08:18
Caroline
That's what scares me about it.
01:08:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, may you rot, Erin.
01:08:24
Caroline
Yeah.
01:08:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You did this to these people and you did this to yourself.
01:08:30
Caroline
Yeah.
01:08:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I'm going to live another 33 years just to make sure that you don't get out of prison.
01:08:39
Caroline
Nice.
01:08:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't even live in Australia.
01:08:40
Caroline
Okay. ah
01:08:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm moving to Australia when I'm, let me think, 103.
01:08:47
Caroline
three Yeah, 103, which is great because then you get all the centenarian benefits, right? There's a swag bag for that, right, America? Centenarians? Centenarians?
01:08:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm going to say yes.
01:08:57
Caroline
Centenarians?
01:08:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There's a swag bag for being 103. You betcha. Okay. Here December. here endeth today's ah episode.
01:09:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And ah this is our next to our last episode in our season three. And we we're going to do another um a very recent case of another diabolical group of people in two weeks.
01:09:25
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
01:09:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So stay tuned for our season three finale. Our research is solely based on public documents, including legal documents, articles, and books about our subject. This episode was pretty easy because it was all over the world.
01:09:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And it's air our episodes are aired every other week. Please tell your friends to join us. Give us a review and subscribe. This helps listeners find us.
01:09:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And thank you for joining us. if We really appreciate you, especially for this one. Now, one other thing. Don't forget. to live and let live.
01:10:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Bye-bye for now, Caroline.
01:10:08
Caroline
Bye-bye.