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Donald Hartung - Family Annihilator
50 Plays21 days ago
A child feels no sense of belonging to his family. He feels abandoned. He grows into a mild man who never complains or acts out. But underneath that stillness a deep rage is fomenting until he erases his entire family of origin. Was it really rage or was it just ordinary greed?
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Transcript
Introduction to Hearth Home and Homicide
00:00:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Hello, listeners. You are listening to Hearth Home and Homicide, a family production about family murders. I'm Bridget.
00:00:09
Caroline
And I'm Caroline.
00:00:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Caroline and i narrate each story. Andy is our producer. As Caroline and I talk about each family murder, we're keen on watching justice unfold for the killer, whatever that may look like.
00:00:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But we really like to talk about the victims, the family, the ripple effect of family murders never ends. And um so our podcasts do include violence and trauma. Listener discretion is advised.
The Intriguing Case of Donald Hartung
00:00:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And today, Caroline, we're going to Pensacola, Florida. where Donald Wayne Hartung Sr. murdered his family to get his hands on his mother's estate.
00:00:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now that doesn't seem all that unusual, does it? I mean, when I'm
00:01:01
Caroline
No, not really for us.
00:01:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, no. I mean, you know, there is a lot of killing that goes on worldwide around money, greed and money and some more money.
00:01:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So it's just a thing. But, you know, this case is so interesting and somewhat unexpected. um A family murderer that's got a lot of layers.
00:01:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I like to read about that, try to understand it. And when you drill down into what happened to this family, there are a lot of dynamics going on, or maybe not a lot, maybe just depth of the dynamics that are there.
00:01:42
Caroline
Yeah, that's a good way to frame it because it did feel both complex and off the wall, yet not that uncommon, like you're saying. You know what i mean?
00:01:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:01:52
Caroline
like what Like, it's just a peek into one of the millions of American family households where stuff's a little off.
00:01:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. it kind of comes It kind of comes as a twist at the end of a long family history.
00:02:08
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
00:02:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I think we're going to get into it.
Family Background and Dynamics
00:02:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Donald Hartung was born on January 11, 1957. His father left the family when Donald was quite young.
00:02:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Okay, so I'm already thinking that's going to leave a mark.
00:02:25
Caroline
ah yeah for sure
00:02:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
His mother, Von Seale, eventually married a man in the Navy named Richard K. Smith. I don't mean that she was in the Navy and they were there together, but ah she Richard K.
00:02:38
Caroline
Thank
00:02:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Smith was in the Navy. Von Seale met him, fell in love, married him. So the family moved around quite a bit because of Richard being in the Navy.
00:02:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And in 1966, Fonseil had son named Richard. And 1967, she had a son named John. and in nineteen sixty seven she had another son named john Now, John was born with some intellectual disabilities, although he was, um you know, not profoundly disabled.
00:03:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But he was a little slow intellectually. And the family lived well. They settled ultimately in Virginia. So what do we have here? We've got at this point Donald and his two half brothers by Von Seale and Richard Smith.
00:03:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
We have no idea where the daddy is of poor Donald. And I feel kind of like, you know, if I'm Donald, do I feel outnumbered?
00:03:41
Caroline
Oh, Lord, there's a million and one ways I feel and none of them are going to include adequacy, um you know, validation. no this has got to be a very hard situation be in when you're 10, you know, 10 15.
00:03:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
00:03:58
Caroline
and it
00:03:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right at this moment in our story, I feel a lot of compassion for Donald. And I don't think Von Seal really ah ever felt like her family had started, really, until she had a quote-unquote good husband and father.
00:04:22
Caroline
Well, and we've seen it before. I don't, frankly, I don't really know how it happens, but I do know it happens. But these mother, you know, she's a mother. She's a single mother. She's got this son. Her husband left her.
00:04:33
Caroline
It is the 50s, you know, the late 50s, early 60s. She's not going to do well. And that's just the formula at the time. So we see them meet these new men and start these new families, and they...
00:04:47
Caroline
I do think a lot of kids from those, you know, first marriage kids or the kids who were abandoned and the mother found a new husband, like, I do think they were thrown out sometimes as though they, you know, discarded as though it was, well, you didn't work out.
00:05:00
Caroline
So i'm gonna start over, you know, and you're not a part of the start over.
00:05:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, yes.
00:05:04
Caroline
Like, I know that happened. I don't know if it happened here, but I know it happened a lot to people. I'm sure.
00:05:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, and happens even today.
00:05:12
Caroline
Yeah.
00:05:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In 1986, Von and Richard and their two sons moved to Pensacola, Florida to live. So they're they're going to go there and live because now they're not moving around in the Navy anymore, is how I take it.
00:05:26
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:05:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, Donald stayed in Virginia. He had a wife and a son. But he and his wife eventually divorced when Donald's son was about 15 years old.
00:05:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I'm gonna come back to that later about his son. Within this somewhat unstable environment, meaning, you know, you're moving all the time, and the eight years of Donald's early life after his father left the family, and there was a whole lot of family darkness, um there was an event that would profoundly ah come back, maybe. i mean, you know it was certainly profound.
00:06:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
One day, Donald's son told him that he was molested at the age of four,
00:06:11
Caroline
Thank
00:06:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
by Donald's half-brother, John. Now, John is the one who has some intellectual challenges. Donald Hartung asked his mother to do something about John, and Von Seal lashed out at Donald and his then-wife, who she didn't like, for believing Donald.
00:06:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This event drove a wedge between Donald and his mother, as well as soured the relationship between Donald's son and his half-brothers.
00:06:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Okay, so did that had a lot of moving pieces, and it was just one paragraph.
00:06:50
Caroline
Yes.
00:06:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, you know, dot Donald has a son who now is coming to say, hey, when I was four years old, John, you know, exposed himself to me.
00:06:52
Caroline
A lot of people involved.
00:07:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And John, you know, was doing things to me that I didn't want him to do.
00:07:03
Caroline
Did these things. Right.
00:07:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And Donald called his mother and said, do something about this.
00:07:10
Caroline
Right.
00:07:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know what he expected her to do. I mean, it was something that had already happened.
00:07:15
Caroline
Right. When he was four, it wasn't long.
00:07:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
How about an apology? How about an acknowledgment?
00:07:19
Caroline
Yeah.
00:07:20
Caroline
Or that, hey, watch out.
00:07:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think it was more along those lines.
00:07:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:07:22
Caroline
This could be happening to other people, you know.
00:07:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. But, you know, Von Seal revealed herself a lot in this situation by saying, not in these words, but if I were Donald, I'd be thinking, you're not as important to me as John and Richard are.
00:07:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm living with them. She was living in a house with her husband and her two adult children.
00:07:50
Caroline
yeah
00:07:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
At that point, after Donald and his wife divorced, Donald decided that he wanted to be in Pensacola, close to his mother and the half brothers, Richard and John.
Donald Hartung's Move to Pensacola
00:08:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I'm going to say, really? Uh-huh.
00:08:06
Caroline
That's where I got confused too.
00:08:08
Caroline
I started to be like, okay, Donald, I don't get you.
00:08:11
Caroline
i don't really understand you.
00:08:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, I don't get him either.
00:08:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, you know, Donald is one of those people, and this is what's going to come forward during the murder investigation. He is someone who is so placid on the outside.
00:08:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He never veers from this placid, ah I'm good, you know, I got nothing, you know.
00:08:34
Caroline
yeah
00:08:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The investigators can say, we believe you murdered your mother and your two stepbrothers, and he would just say, no, I did not.
00:08:44
Caroline
Right.
00:08:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Rather than, what the hell are you talking about?
00:08:48
Caroline
Which, oh, there's nothing getting under my skin more than a conversation that starts that way.
00:08:53
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:08:53
Caroline
I just think, well, this was the dumbest conversation ever. Yeah.
00:08:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. I mean, Donald donald was... You know how they say still waters run deep?
00:09:04
Caroline
Yeah.
00:09:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think that that expression came from people who understood the value of the unspoken word, that you do not have to reveal yourself with every breath you take.
00:09:16
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:09:21
Caroline
Moreover, you probably shouldn't be revealing yourself, you know?
00:09:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You're right. um Yeah. that Who was it? to say I can't remember who said it. I read it somewhere.
00:09:31
Caroline
Mark Twain. was Mark Twain with...
00:09:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Something.
00:09:34
Caroline
No.
00:09:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There's a lot of value in the unexpressed thought.
00:09:41
Caroline
Oh, yeah.
00:09:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um You know, you do not.
00:09:42
Caroline
don't think...
00:09:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. A lot of people don't understand the value of an unexpressed thought.
00:09:46
Caroline
That's true.
00:09:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, I'm positing that Donald Hartung may be one of those people who has no expressed thoughts because all of his thoughts are dark.
00:09:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And someday that fuse is finally going to hit the dynamite.
00:10:06
Caroline
Actually, yeah, that's a really good observation, Mom.
00:10:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And.
00:10:09
Caroline
I wonder, i hope the SBI is looking into the science of studying that as a pattern because I think you're kind of onto something there.
00:10:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Yeah.
00:10:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, I'm sure they do. ah I'm sure they do. I mean, i've only I only ah have one human life that I can observe with and try to figure out what's going on here.
00:10:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
FBI's got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people.
00:10:29
Caroline
Yeah.
00:10:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They might not anymore because there have been some cuts recently, but I'll just leave it at that.
00:10:36
Caroline
Yeah.
00:10:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Anyway, so
00:10:37
Caroline
yeah
00:10:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um so there was a wedge between Donald and his mother. And his half brothers. However, now, Donald, suddenly I've lost my marriage. My son has, you know, is 17 years old or something like that. And his he's decided I want to go live close to my mother, my half brothers in Pensacola. OK, I'll take that at surface value right now.
00:11:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
His son had gone into the service at age 17, and he never saw his father again until the trial. So many many, many, many, many years later.
00:11:17
Caroline
like
00:11:19
Caroline
So there was a rift there, I think.
00:11:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There was. I think that when Donald and his wife got a divorce and Donald decided he was going to go to Pensacola, that was the end of that.
00:11:34
Caroline
Wow.
00:11:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they they the son would call his father once or twice a year, maybe birthday and Christmas.
00:11:40
Caroline
Yeah.
00:11:43
Caroline
That's kind of sad. yeah I'm sad more over for the sun, though, than for Donald, but it's sad all around............................
00:11:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, ah we'll talk about that when we talk about the trial, because he did say some interesting things. So Donald, when he got to Pensacola, he got a security job.
00:12:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah He was a guard. I don't mean security like he's enforcing security. He's more like got a flashlight and he's walking around the property for 12 hours and he's making $10 an hour.
00:12:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, you know, OK, that's what he did. He was not invited to live in the family home with his mother, Bon Seal, and John and Richard.
00:12:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They had their own thing going on.
00:12:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:12:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And maybe he didn't want to.
00:12:34
Caroline
Maybe.
00:12:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But and no one would I know about him. And he just got through telling the story about how I'm going to go to Pensacola and be closer to my family.
00:12:43
Caroline
Right. Like, obviously.
00:12:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Maybe he thought he was going to be embraced to come into their big house because they did have a big one story house that probably had a basement because Von Seel, you know, and her husband, um you know, had had a good living. They had a good life and they had money.
00:13:03
Caroline
Well, and in that moment, I want to acknowledge Donald is in the unenviable position of being the child of the first marriage that didn't work.
00:13:13
Caroline
And those children, when not incorporated into the family, how much pain is that?
00:13:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
and that he's he's the
00:13:19
Caroline
Even if he's 100 years old, Donald presuming in his mind to be closer to his family, you're right. Like, I'm going to move to be closer to y'all, to not receive an invite back, to be incorporated into the circle.
00:13:31
Caroline
Yet another dagger. Just pile it on the daggers. You are already stabbing in my heart from day one. When you married this man, you had his children. You bolstered the children above me in terms of needs, love, value.
00:13:49
Caroline
Wow. Like his whole life. I'm just picturing this man pretending like he's not hurt at the fact that i I'm moving to be closer to you. And they're like, fine. Good luck finding a place.
00:14:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, we're not very far into this story, but we all know that it's not going to end well because we are ah podcast about family murder. But we can already see some problems.
00:14:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know... He was not invited to live. He always had some financial difficulty.
00:14:20
Caroline
Yeah.
00:14:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He also drank. He had some DUIs. He had to fight in court. He went into rehab. So, I mean, you know, he's not staple.
00:14:33
Caroline
yeah
00:14:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Von Seale, to her credit, paid to get him out of jail, paid to hire a lawyer, paid to take him to rehab.
00:14:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
so Maybe that was her husband's influence. I don't know.
00:14:54
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But she kept score. She kept score.
00:14:57
Caroline
ah
00:14:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She knew how much she had spent on Donald.
00:15:03
Caroline
ah
00:15:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She really preferred the company of her sons, Richard and John. There's no question about that. So now the Smith family, and that's the name of her new family with these boys, and they're living in this house in Pensacola. They're not boys anymore. They're grownups.
00:15:18
Caroline
yeah
00:15:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
but And her husband is still alive. They lived a comfortable home in a comfortable home. And when the boys grew up, as I said, they stayed under the same roof with their parents.
00:15:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah You know, I'm going to tell you, I don't think if that works for you, go on and do it.
00:15:32
Caroline
Yeah. Heck yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm. yeah
00:15:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think a lot of people have to do that.
00:15:36
Caroline
yeah
00:15:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And they may not get along, but there there was something that was very congenial in that household.
00:15:44
Caroline
yeah
00:15:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In 2012, Richard Smith died of you know, it wasn't anything dramatic. I think he died of cancer or heart attack. It was rather sudden.
00:15:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So now the home was Von Seale, Richard, and John. And, you know, Von Seale is um getting older. ah Richard took care of the family and his mother.
00:16:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Richard, the son of Von Seel, and her husband Richard, ah who now is deceased, he stepped up and he started taking care of his mother, who was not all that well. She was getting up in years, as I said.
00:16:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
In addition to the income of Richard, who was a highly paid i t guy for Homeland Security, There was an estate that Bonceal inherited from her husband after he died.
00:16:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
At the time of the family murder, there was about $800,000 in the estate, plus they had a very nice home that was paid for and so forth.
00:16:49
Caroline
Yeah.
00:16:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So she's doing very well. she's where Her estate is worth over a million dollars.
00:16:53
Caroline
Nice.
00:16:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Every Tuesday, I wish I could say a million dollars is a lot of money, but it's not.
00:16:59
Caroline
I know.
00:17:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Even in 12, it wasn't a lot anymore.
00:17:02
Caroline
it No. But it is a good retirement.
00:17:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yeah
00:17:05
Caroline
We'll say that.
00:17:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Well, it's it's a it's a it's something, you know, and I don't want to scoff at it because I would love to have a million dollars sitting right here and I could get, you know, a big studio somewhere and we could just be doing podcasts all day long.
00:17:06
Caroline
That's a good retirement number.
00:17:13
Caroline
Oh, heck yeah.
00:17:21
Caroline
you
00:17:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So every Tuesday, Donald would come over to his mother's house and his brother's house and make them dinner on Tuesday. Now, okay.
Family Dinners and Tensions
00:17:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They've let him in the door one day a week to cook. I have no idea how that started or I don't know, but it happened and it seemed like it was working out okay.
00:17:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The house was not, the house was mess, but it wasn't like a hoarder mess, but it was very close to that.
00:17:58
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:18:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So you know when I say hoarder, I mean someone with the psychological disorder. it's a It's a known personality disorder known as hoarding personality disorder.
00:18:12
Caroline
yeah
00:18:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Okay, I don't think that Von Seal had that or the boys, the men, her sons.
00:18:20
Caroline
no
00:18:24
Caroline
yeah
00:18:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um But she was someone that liked everything she had to be out to look at.
00:18:33
Caroline
I kind of have a similar affliction. so i get what you're saying. This delineation between the inability to get rid of the things and just simply having too many things you enjoy looking at at one time.
00:18:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, yeah, I mean, I've probably got ah touch of that, some of that.
00:18:49
Caroline
Okay.
00:18:50
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it It got cured really fast when I moved from the family home that, you know, Ted and I had with the children. And, you know, at what once you went already to college, we still kept, you know, room for everybody, like they're going to come back and we're going to start all over.
00:19:08
Caroline
Yeah.
00:19:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, you know, ah when he died and then I finally decided to move,
00:19:09
Caroline
yeah
00:19:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
To where I am now, i have a much smaller house and I i just can't.
00:19:18
Caroline
Yeah.
00:19:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm getting on in years and um I don't want to be tripping over my stuff.
00:19:25
Caroline
You've always been a great purger, which is how I know how to purge, but you've also always been a great acquirer of beautiful things.
00:19:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, thank you. Yeah, yeah. I was a collector. Your dad was a collector.
00:19:33
Caroline
Yeah.
00:19:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Let's just say that after he passed away, there were like hundreds of cribbage boards stored under our bed because he was keen on cribbage.
00:19:41
Caroline
Yes.
00:19:43
Caroline
and
00:19:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Back to our story.
00:19:46
Caroline
I know.
00:19:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Uh, we've got this not quite a hoarder's mess, but it's a mess. It was bri brimming with purchases made over many years of travel, you know, and that kind of thing.
00:19:59
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:20:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But Von Steele was by that age of the at the time for murder, she was not mobile. too she she you know She stayed in one chair ah to most of the extent of the day, and she didn't leave the house ever.
00:20:08
Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:20:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So she shopped online all day at like those shopping channels, you know, QVC and stuff like that.
00:20:25
Caroline
Oh, it's so easy to shop online. I know exactly what you mean.
00:20:27
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah. Well, I do i admit i get I'm lazy now, and I just want but Amazon to bring me everything.
00:20:33
Caroline
know.
00:20:36
Caroline
I know, me too. Could I get you cookies right now, wonder?
00:20:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah
00:20:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
yeah but Yeah, yeah, yeah. i don't I'm not there yet. um
00:20:43
Caroline
Yeah.
00:20:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But she liked to have her stuff, you know, brought in and put somewhere. It needed to play a little house in her house.
00:20:52
Caroline
you
00:20:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
so And she got deliveries almost every day.
00:20:56
Caroline
Well, it does start to become like an addiction. A little like the gambling, you know? It starts to...
00:21:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Certainly a habit.
00:21:01
Caroline
Yes.
00:21:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Certainly in a habit.
00:21:03
Caroline
bo
00:21:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now she had the money to do it. So you go, girl.
00:21:08
Caroline
Just a phase in life.
00:21:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Donald was about to, um just about, you know, he was he was able to work around the clutter in the kitchen, just, but not by any margin.
00:21:25
Caroline
ah
00:21:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, you know, he's walking into a cluttered, you know, decorated, lot of, it's like trying to walk your way and cook a meal in an antique mall.
00:21:35
Caroline
Right. If somebody puts all their things on the counter, I mean, it is problematic, particularly in the kitchen when you don't actually have any counter space because it's full of decorative items. How do you function in that space?
00:21:47
Caroline
Yeah.
00:21:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. So Tuesday, I guess, was his day off from his ah job as a security guard. And he would come over in midday and he would serve dinner around 430 and he would put his brother John's meal in the microwave so that he could eat it later around 630 or so.
00:22:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that was That was their routine. That was their routine.
00:22:12
Caroline
Okay.
00:22:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He put it the microwave just to kind of keep it in a cupboard type thing.
00:22:17
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It's probably the only accessible thing in that kitchen except for the stove, you know.
00:22:21
Caroline
Yeah.
00:22:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
To me, it didn't seem as though he wanted to cook so much as he was maybe paying off that debt of scandal. Get back to his mother's good graces, maybe.
00:22:30
Caroline
um
00:22:33
Caroline
Maybe.
00:22:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'm not sure. Um...
00:22:36
Caroline
I mean, I i feel for him because um quite frankly, if anyone has ever had the experience of and not inserting yourself, but feeling as though you were a part of a group of people and then having a moment where you realize, nope, you're here for very specific sort of usury type reason. And if you disappeared, no one would really care that much.
00:22:56
Caroline
That's a painful place to be, you know, when you realize it in the middle of a group.
00:22:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
o
00:23:02
Caroline
So I don't know how many times.
00:23:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah, well wonder if he if he was cooking and thinking, you know, I would like to murder you people and cook you for dinner and take you to the wolves.
00:23:04
Caroline
don't know.
00:23:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I mean, you know, was he having dark thoughts?
00:23:12
Caroline
Well, or just to feel so shunned.
00:23:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:23:15
Caroline
I don't know. I mean, but i I've been in that situation where you just, you realize, whoops, these people not only don't care about me, like literally i could just, they are indifferent to me.
00:23:25
Caroline
That had to be painful for Donald, trying all these things, you know, to be something of note to these people.
00:23:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh, yeah. Yes.
00:23:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I recently had a conversation with your daughter, my only granddaughter from my daughter, who is an only daughter.
00:23:38
Caroline
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
00:23:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um She and I were talking about the opposite of love is not hate.
00:23:49
Caroline
that's correct
00:23:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
The opposite of love is indifference. And so you are very right.
00:23:54
Caroline
yeah it's not even like they're just they're mean to him they're apathetic they don't even acknowledge his existence we don't care oh you made food cool I'll eat it and move on with my life because I don't care about you I mean, ouch, for Donald, desperately doing the love me dance, you know?
00:24:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes.
00:24:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes, he is. Maybe.
00:24:14
Caroline
Maybe, i mean, I'm not.
00:24:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Anyway, remember that Richard is the son that worked for Homeland Security. He was always working. He was never late to work. He was never sick. He was coming home late every night.
00:24:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, that's why his meal is in the microwave on Tuesday. And he was a very reliable employee. Now, he his brother John was someone who was somewhat limited cognitively.
00:24:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, you know, he worked every day, John. He worked every day at Walmart, never missed a day.
00:24:44
Caroline
and wow
00:24:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He worked there for 20 years, Caroline.
00:24:46
Caroline
Oh, good for him. Yeah.
00:24:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So both of these young men...
00:24:49
Caroline
Right.
00:24:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
are doing everything in their power to take care of their family. And their family can is comprised of each other and their mother. They never married.
00:25:02
Caroline
Yeah.
00:25:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They never um did not live with their mother. And you know what?
00:25:07
Caroline
right
00:25:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah if you If that's how you want to live, that's how you want to live.
00:25:12
Caroline
yeah
00:25:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And there's nothing wrong with that.
00:25:15
Caroline
um what's What's his name? Hoover, the FBI director of some serious note and wait. He did that, didn't he?
00:25:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:25:22
Caroline
mean, it's a little weirder than that, but J.
00:25:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Oh my God, I'm going to have to look that up. I did not know that.
00:25:25
Caroline
Edgar Hoover, pretty sure he did that.
00:25:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Okay. Well, these two young men are taking care of their mom at this point. She's in her seventies. And, um, these two boys were so, reliable.
00:25:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Reliable.
00:25:44
Caroline
Oh, that is, yeah. Like a string.
00:25:45
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that um Homeland Security was the first to raise an alarm, that Richard did not show up for work two or three days in a row and he didn't call in sick.
00:25:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There was nothing. They got so worried. According to law enforcement, announcements of the event came...
00:26:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i think that it's just the first... ah
00:26:13
Caroline
like a string
00:26:13
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
first unraveling of Donald.
00:26:16
Caroline
Yeah.
00:26:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, ah but it was Homeland Security that first raised this alarm.
Discovery and Investigation of the Murders
00:26:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um on July 31st, 2015, the Pensacola Sheriff's Office made a welfare check at the home of Richard Smith, a 49-year-old IT specialist for the Department of Homeland Security.
00:26:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
His boss had reached out to officials when Richard failed to come to work for three days. No one answered the door of the home Richard shared with his mother, Bon Seal, 77 years old, who was widowed and retired, and his brother, John Smith, 47, who worked at Walmart.
00:26:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So this is the retelling of why the...
00:27:02
Caroline
Great.
00:27:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah the sweater of cloak of you know, Donald Hartung being this wonderful man who cooks for his mother and his brothers every Tuesday starts to unravel.
00:27:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah Police contacted Richard's half-brother, Donald Wayne Hartung. I suppose he did not like that, but probably saw it coming. Who gave them permission to enter the house. And he's probably thinking, oh boy.
00:27:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Inside, authorities found Von Seel, Richard, and John dead. They didn't immediately, they knew somebody was dead in that house because when they opened the door, they could smell But they couldn't they couldn't really ascertain where is, where's, they were the dead bodies because of the mess.
00:27:50
Caroline
Oh, okay.
00:27:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And there was, ah you know, when the house is a mess, everywhere, it's hard to know that something important is laying under this heap of blankets and garments.
00:27:58
Caroline
Yeah.
00:28:04
Caroline
Yes. Yes. Yeah.
00:28:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And that is exactly what they found. They were both, they were all buried under, separately, under a mountain of clothing and blankets. And um the the Oxygen Channel had a show on this and I watched it and um they, it was called Family Massacre. So you can go out there and find it and on streaming um And the investigators gave loads of interviews to local and national press, and it was in this oxygen. So some of this is coming from that episode.
00:28:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
it It got out of hand because of erroneous reports. This investigation kind of went belly up or crazy at first.
00:28:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Because once the medical examiner or investigators arrived on scene, they pulled the blankets off, and you could tell that these people had been dead for the last couple of days.
00:29:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And this was from Wayne Wright, an investigator with the state attorney's office. John, remember he's disabled little bit mentally, and Von Seale, both had injuries to their heads and gashes in their necks.
00:29:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But Von Seal also had defensive cuts on her hand and part of her pinky finger was missing.
00:29:30
Caroline
my gosh. Whoa. Yeah.
00:29:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And Richard had been beaten, stabbed, and shot in the right ear.
00:29:38
Caroline
who
00:29:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
ah It was gruesome.
00:29:40
Caroline
yeah
00:29:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Gruesome. And it looked like Von Seal fought back. A bloody hammer and paper towels as well as cigarette butts were collected at the scene.
00:29:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Donald Hartung was transported to the sheriff's office, obviously, where Escombia County homicide detective Matt Infinger hoped he would shed some light on the brutal triple homicide.
00:30:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, listeners, you can go out and see all of the interviews with Donald Hartung with the police, the investigators on YouTube. And my gosh, you can really see how placid this man is.
00:30:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You cannot get a rise out of him.
00:30:25
Caroline
That's sad because I feel like a lot of that is this indifference that he was shown his whole life in terms of being a child of someone. He, you know, he's desperate. And.
00:30:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, you know, I feel that way too. And at the same time, I have an alternative feeling that competes with that.
00:30:43
Caroline
Yeah.
00:30:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And that is that, you know, John Hartung was damaged.
00:30:47
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. But he was loved.
00:30:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But he was loved and he did everything that he could to support himself and his parents and his mother, his parents, his brother for 20 years and ah before his death.
00:30:51
Caroline
He was. Yeah.
00:31:00
Caroline
Yeah.
00:31:04
Caroline
Yeah.
00:31:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And Hartung wasn't loved. And i don't think he wasn't.
00:31:16
Caroline
I don't know either.
00:31:17
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
that No, I don't think so.
00:31:17
Caroline
I think worse than that, I think he was he was ignored. Like, does if that makes sense, worse than being disliked.
00:31:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:31:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, there was part of him that was dead on the inside as far as someone looking at him from the outside.
00:31:35
Caroline
Right.
00:31:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But little do we little did we know that underneath that, you know, kind of placid, you know, nothing going on there look, there's this volcano of rage.
00:31:44
Caroline
Yeah.
00:31:48
Caroline
Yes. Yeah, that, yes. I think that's what happened. But how scary. You can't see that volcano. Yeah.
00:31:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, you cannot see that volcano, and that is why whenever I meet someone who is very cool, calm, and collected, I'm thinking, please don't murder me.
00:32:10
Caroline
Show me just a smidge of course.
00:32:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I'd rather have somebody who gets pissed off and walks off or pissed off and says something to me that was equally hurtful as whatever it was I said to them.
00:32:14
Caroline
Yeah.
00:32:21
Caroline
Right? Right? Oh lordy.
00:32:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Anyway, John and Von Seal both had injuries, as I said, and gashes on their, I mean, know it was just bad, bad, bad, bad. And a bloody hammer, paper towels, cigarette butts, all of these things.
00:32:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So when the authorities contacted Donald to inform him about the passing of his family and interview him, Donald did not deny that he saw the three of them on the day they died, as they usually had two Tuesday dinner together. and However, what was suspicious was that according to Smith's neighbors, the Smiths again are Bon Seal and her sons, Donald left late that night and didn't even have his headlights on when he was driving away.
00:33:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So um now I want to tell you about this neighbor. the house that Von Seel and her sons lived on was like a an elongated horseshoe, and it was like a loop.
00:33:26
Caroline
yeah
00:33:26
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So there's only one way in and one way out.
00:33:29
Caroline
ah Okay, that's kind of cool.
00:33:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And so they had a neighborhood watch program, and the neighbor right next door to the Smiths was the head of it.
00:33:40
Caroline
Oh, perfect.
00:33:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And he he was he was retired and he spent his most not most times looking out his window or going out on his front porch and rocking in his rocking chair.
00:33:50
Caroline
Yeah.
00:33:56
Caroline
Love neighbors like that. I know a lot of people don't. I do. I love neighbors like that.
00:34:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, you know, he was a treasure trove of what goes on, what is the pattern, what car does so-and-so have.
00:34:06
Caroline
Yeah.
00:34:10
Caroline
Yep.
00:34:13
Caroline
ah You need somebody like that in your hood.
00:34:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's just cataloging it all so that he knows when something is amiss.
00:34:18
Caroline
Yes.
00:34:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, Donald had a dog, little dog, but Donald's house did not have a yard and ah that he could run around in.
00:34:28
Caroline
Yeah.
00:34:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There was no fence.
00:34:32
Caroline
Yeah.
00:34:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Donald would bring his dog over on Tuesdays. While he cooked, the dog would get to run around in Von Seale's fenced backyard.
00:34:38
Caroline
and
00:34:43
Caroline
fine
00:34:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It was a big old yard. Well, this neighbor, but you know, the the street watch guy, he told police, you know, he didn't even bring his dog that day.
00:34:56
Caroline
See, it, you know, it is important to have patterns in life because it's the offness of the pattern that others can notice that are going to get you the attention you need faster.
00:35:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:35:06
Caroline
Right. oh
00:35:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So just picture this. when the When the police came over because the employer called and said, could you do a welfare
Suspicion Falls on Donald Hartung
00:35:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
check? And they they then smell death and they call the investigators and the medical examiner and let's look under all these blankets and they find their victims. And and then the investigators tell the police, go talk to the neighbors.
00:35:29
Caroline
Right.
00:35:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They only had to go to the guy next door because he knew all of these clues. And so by the end of like an hour or two after discovery, Donald was down at the police station and ah they wanted to talk to him because they just got an earful.
00:35:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He doesn't know that, but they just got an earful from this neighbor.
00:35:49
Caroline
right
00:35:53
Caroline
Of every one of his movements that were off from all of the typical Tuesday movements. Wow. Because the fact that he goes over there every Tuesday, that would be somewhat of his alibi. Well, it's no different than any other Tuesday.
00:36:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:36:06
Caroline
Well, actually, it really was.
00:36:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:36:08
Caroline
Wow.
00:36:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, thing we say this almost every murder that we talk about, but these killers, they only see things from their own line of sight. They only can imagine covering their tracks.
00:36:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They don't think about the neighbor next door.
00:36:25
Caroline
Right.
00:36:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
they don't He may not even realize that his mother and her sons, his half-brothers, have ah this neighbor that is, you know, basically and a human videotape machine.
00:36:41
Caroline
Love it. I love that. That's only because I don't have things that I would want to hide. You know, but I know a lot of people do and there are legitimate things to hide.
00:36:52
Caroline
But like, I love having neighbors like that. You tell them, you spill the tea when necessary.
00:36:56
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
and so the the very I'm going to i'm goingnna say that I think the thing that you try very hard to hide is your number one thing that everybody else thinks is true about you.
00:37:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's what I think.
00:37:07
Caroline
Ooh, that's actually really freeing.
00:37:12
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. Don't try to hide because something about you is given tell.
00:37:15
Caroline
They're thinking of you anyway. ah yeah
00:37:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And anybody who's perceptive can feel it and see it. So...
00:37:22
Caroline
That's true. Yeah. yeah
00:37:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. Now, here's something that kind of made me angry about this case, and that is one of the reasons I wanted to to talk about it, is that the Eskambia County Sheriff at the time, David Morgan, said in a press conference early,
00:37:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So why are you talking? But anyway, he said, quote, the elements of this case are odd at best. OK, I'll give him that. We have a very reclusive family. Yes, you do.
00:37:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Obviously, we've canvassed the neighborhood, and spoken to people who've lived there for years and years. yeah Neighbors have related to us that they, quote unquote, had never met members of this family.
00:38:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He went on, though, and he shouldn't have. He should have zipped his lip after that. He said the crime appears to have been part of a witchcraft practice linked to the July 31st blue moon, a reference to the second of two full moons that appear in that calendar month.
00:38:18
Caroline
Yeah, why would you say that?
00:38:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And how did he how did he came to that belief that you should keep to yourself?
00:38:31
Caroline
Well, yeah, that's just poor media training, right, on the investigative tip.
00:38:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
How did he?
00:38:35
Caroline
Yeah.
00:38:36
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
you're David Morgan, you know, shame on you because, ah you know, what happened was they learned so quickly that they had a likely suspect from the neighbor next door that they hauled Donald in, but they came to his house to get him.
00:38:47
Caroline
Oh, Yeah.
00:38:54
Caroline
ah wow
00:38:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And when they got there... And they um asked if they could take a look around and they were able to look around. And what did they find? They found in one of his rooms was a um ritualistic Wicca religion kind of room of worship.
00:39:15
Caroline
Oh, okay. Like an altar with the candles and probably a lot of incense and dried herbs.
00:39:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
so Something. Probably you're right on you're right on the money with the with the dried herbs because one of the reasons that I do not like David Morgan saying these things about witchcraft is because, you know, all right, i I would not want to be a Wiccan because you have to call yourself a witch or that's what they call themselves or whatever.
00:39:24
Caroline
They're very pretty. Yeah.
00:39:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But, you know, i I just want listeners to realize that the the the actual Wicca religion, which predates... you know, Christianity and Buddhism and all of the the major religions of the world.
00:39:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um So this goes way, way back. And it's the ah it's the worship of the Mother Nature.
00:40:06
Caroline
Yeah, the Druid culture, the paganistic cultures.
00:40:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes. Right. it's a It's a pagan culture. It predates all the main religions of the world um ah today.
00:40:16
Caroline
Yep.
00:40:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
and it You know, they they they actually believe in a female God and a male God.
00:40:25
Caroline
Oh, it's all balance. It's all energies. It's all the things. And it's all a matter of doing right and in balance with these things. And you're right. Mother Nature, the cycles, the ah constant ebb and flow of life.
00:40:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I wish they didn't have to call themselves witches.
00:40:40
Caroline
think they do. I think you get to call yourself whatever you want because it isn't necessarily religion.
00:40:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Okay. Okay.
00:40:45
Caroline
It used to be a way of life, right? I mean, it used to be like the same way you, you know, roll your or close your windows in your home when it's cold. Like it's very basic, I think, in those terms, you know, you've got.
00:40:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, and they do do appreciate these spectacular natural phenomenon, such as the blue moon. And there was a blue moon that month.
00:41:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And the blue moon was, you know, the blue moon is you get two full moons in the same month. And the blue moon is the second one.
00:41:19
Caroline
Aren't they rare?
00:41:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
That's once in a blue moon. That's why i say people say that happens once in a blue moon.
00:41:22
Caroline
What?
00:41:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um that means very rarely.
00:41:28
Caroline
Okay.
00:41:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So they would really get, you know, all excited about um changing seasons and with the animals flying to a different location and stuff like that.
00:41:36
Caroline
Rye.
00:41:39
Caroline
Harvesting. Foods. All the things.
00:41:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So enough about Wicca. Anyway, they shouldn't have said that. Media from local and national news just ran with it. Of course. Spectacular.
00:41:52
Caroline
yeah
00:41:52
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
It was reported that investigators believed that the killings were ritualistic because their person of interest at the time was linked to religious practices that they believed also involved ritualistic killings, which is not true.
00:42:09
Caroline
Have we ever really found a case? Because, you know, you hear this coming up in cases sometimes and it gets sort of sensationalized. But have we ever actually seen a case where this is really happening? Anyway, side question, not for today.
00:42:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't think so, but maybe.
00:42:24
Caroline
I mean, I'm thinking of the movie Dragnet with Tom Hanks, you know, and and Dan Aykroyd.
00:42:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
i mean, you know, maybe. I'd have to look that up.
00:42:31
Caroline
That kind of storyline.
00:42:31
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
God, that was so funny. Oh, my God.
00:42:33
Caroline
It's a great movie.
00:42:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yes. So, you know, all right. i went down a tangent there of don't be rude to Wiccans.
00:42:40
Caroline
I know, sorry.
00:42:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um So ah on July 31st, it was not the only day ah the the three bodies were found, but also the day that ah deputies raided the home.
00:42:49
Caroline
Oh,
00:42:55
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So I've already kind of talked about that. And he was the main suspect. So they kept bringing him in. His home was searched and and they found clothes.
Trial and Conviction
00:43:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Later, they got a search warrant to to look even further. So that in that, looking for things, they found clothes that he was wearing during the murders.
00:43:15
Caroline
but wow
00:43:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Okay, yeah, so you're not thinking ahead there, Donald. The possible murder weapons in a pagan worship room, ah which we've already talked about. When news outlets heard about the evidence found inside his home and the July 31st blue moon, that is when they started to call him the blue moon killer.
00:43:36
Caroline
Stupid. Quit giving names so quickly. Give it a minute.
00:43:41
Caroline
Sorry.
00:43:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Court TV reported at the time that although the theory about the ritualistic killing was spreading like wildfire, investigators announced that they actually believed the killing had nothing to do with rituals and had everything to do with money.
00:43:58
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Allegedly, the co-worker of Hartung said that Hartung had previously said he would inherit all of his mother's assets because he was the oldest living heir ever.
00:44:10
Caroline
Do you see what I mean? Inserting himself in a position he has never been given by that family. They all see Richard as the oldest because that's the real family.
00:44:15
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
right
00:44:18
Caroline
Like, it's sad because it's not true. i know where Donald's coming from, not from experience, but just from having seen it enough. And it's sad. I hate that. It's not fair.
00:44:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Subsequently, as the authorities dug deeper, they found out that Donald had a financial motive to kill off his entire family. He, as the oldest heir, expected all of his mother's assets to pass on to him after her death, but she didn't even include him in her will.
00:44:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And she wrote in her will the following, Regarding Von Seale's estate, it read, I hereby give an equal share to my two sons, Richard Thomas Smith and John William Smith, to be theirs absolutely.
00:45:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I intentionally make no provision herein to the benefit of my son, Donald Wayne Hartung, because he has sufficient assets of his own,
00:45:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
to live now that wasn't the complete truth part of the truth was because she had counted up all the money that she had given to Donald when he moved to Pensacola and got drunk all the time and he got caught and he went to jail and he had to go to ah rehab center and she needed to buy a lawyer.
00:45:31
Caroline
Oh my
00:45:44
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
She had that all lined out. But in her will, she basically said he can stand on his own two feet and my other children cannot.
00:45:47
Caroline
just
00:45:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And i think maybe she was thinking that obviously John needs protection. Who's going to protect him?
00:46:01
Caroline
Yeah.
00:46:03
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Richard.
00:46:04
Caroline
Yeah.
00:46:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And I don't want to have Richard and John want for anything.
00:46:11
Caroline
Yeah.
00:46:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So I'm leaving them everything.
00:46:13
Caroline
And Donald's always coughing.
00:46:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But she did say in her will that she thought Donald had enough assets. Well, he was actually quite financially um insecure.
00:46:22
Caroline
This is so sad. How do you write as a mother? Now, I'm not every mother, so whatever. Everybody's got their own things. But I could never. I'm intentionally excluding my son.
00:46:33
Caroline
you you so You said it out loud to somebody. You asked them to write it down. And then you asked them to notarize that statement for you. Whoa. whoa
00:46:40
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. um She could have said, you know, ah Donald has borrowed this money from his estate and there's nothing left.
00:46:54
Caroline
That would have been more kind, a kinder way of saying you're excluded. It would have been better to say, you know, you really kind tapped this in the course of our relationship over the past.
00:47:07
Caroline
At least kind
00:47:07
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, when I think about it, I think that Donald may have found out very recently before the murders that he was not in the will.
00:47:17
Caroline
of.
00:47:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Perhaps he realized that he would have to kill his entire family to get ah anything.
00:47:23
Caroline
To be the sole narrator. Yeah.
00:47:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Or maybe he was just um on a rage-filled rampage.
00:47:33
Caroline
Like that.
00:47:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:47:34
Caroline
Yeah.
00:47:35
Caroline
Could have been on anything.
00:47:35
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I really don't know.
00:47:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um don ah But although I do believe it was premeditated because he didn't bring his dog.
00:47:44
Caroline
Well, and you drove out without the headlights and like, I mean, obviously.
00:47:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Well, yeah, and he claims he claims that he left before ah Richard got home as per normal.
00:47:53
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:47:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But the neighbor said, no, you didn't. You were there.
00:47:56
Caroline
yeah
00:47:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He had already come home. So Donald stood trial for triple murder only in late January 2020, more than four and a half years after the incident took place.
00:48:10
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
During the six days of testimony, the prosecution called upon several witnesses to paint the picture of how there was trouble within the family. The jury found Donald guilty of all charges against him and sentenced him to life in prison without the possibility of parole.
00:48:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Now, he avoided the death penalty because the jury was not unanimous on that. In Florida, will just make a note to listeners that nowadays, recently, there was a change in the law that you could have um you know eight out of ten jurors who would vote.
00:48:47
Caroline
Oh no!
00:48:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. So, oh, they love that death penalty because they don't like hanging on to people.
00:48:49
Caroline
Why you eager to kill people?
00:48:54
Caroline
Oh.
00:48:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, um, in fact, the, well, okay, I'm not going to go into that, but I, that it's just a thing in Florida that they, they, they do like their death penalty.
00:49:01
Caroline
It's a thing now.
00:49:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So now Donald was totally stone-faced through the whole trial, totally stone-faced when he was found guilty.
00:49:15
Caroline
Like not crying, not angry, not sad.
00:49:16
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No, no, nothing. You got a statue. He's just a statuesque kind of face.
00:49:19
Caroline
Wow.
00:49:23
Caroline
Like apathetic to it all, kind of?
00:49:23
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And yeah yeah, I mean, I think the rage is under there all the time, but it did it only comes out once in a blue moon.
00:49:25
Caroline
Just...
00:49:30
Caroline
Yeah.
00:49:36
Caroline
Oh, good one!
00:49:38
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know.
00:49:41
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
All I can say is that one of the one they had so much evidence.
00:49:46
Caroline
Yeah.
00:49:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But the other thing that they had in in terms of circumstantial evidence and the bloody clothes that he was wearing when he killed him was the DNA.
00:49:53
Caroline
Right.
00:49:57
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
His DNA was found all over the house, of course, because he's over there cooking all the time.
00:50:01
Caroline
Yeah.
00:50:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But one of the places that the DNA was found was on his the clasp of his mother's purse.
00:50:09
Caroline
Oops. Oh my gosh.
00:50:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And another place that the ah DNA was found is inside the belt in the back of ah Richard.
00:50:24
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, you know, all of the bodies had been dragged. There were drag marks in the blood.
00:50:31
Caroline
Oh.
00:50:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So Donald said in court at his sentencing, I love my jury. They pay close attention.
00:50:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
But your honor, they were duped and you were duped. He was reading from a written statement and he added, my DNA in your house where a crime had been committed is real evidence.
00:51:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
My DNA in my mother's house where I frequented all the time, your honor, is not even real evidence. But, you know, when what is your DNA doing on the underside of your brother's belt on the day that he was dragged after you murdered him?
00:51:13
Caroline
That part.
00:51:17
Caroline
That's it. Because it's it's not always now that DNA dna is present. It is now about where, how, when, why. Because that's what's going to cause it to be off.
00:51:25
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:51:27
Caroline
Yeah, it wouldn't be real evidence if it was the frying pan, the doorknob, the light switch, even her purse clasp, even that.
00:51:28
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:51:36
Caroline
But the backside of somebody's belt that they're wearing, who you would should not be touching that close.
00:51:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And there are drag marks in the blood.
00:51:43
Caroline
oh I mean, come on.
00:51:46
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Donald then went on to blame his legal counsel for not allowing him to testify and requested that the judge declare a mistrial. But his appeal was denied, that his appeal to the judge in person.
00:51:58
Caroline
Yeah.
00:51:59
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Therefore, Donald Wayne Hartung Sr., 63, remains behind bars to this day. He is incarcerated at the Graceville Correctional Facility in Jackson County, Florida.
00:52:11
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, I've always thought that prison would be really hard in Florida because it is so humid, hot, humid.
00:52:17
Caroline
Yeah.
00:52:19
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You'd be just sweating all the time.
00:52:20
Caroline
Super like lot of cockroaches, lot of mismanagement of private prisons.
00:52:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And a lot of car cockroaches.
00:52:27
Caroline
I mean, I just don't even want to know.
00:52:30
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
No. Caroline, I think Donald Hartung killed his family to inherit money and maybe win after feeling outcast his entire life.
00:52:42
Caroline
I could see that.
00:52:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He's trying to fix that part of himself. Alcohol didn't do it. He doesn't have any money to do it. What does he do? he you know, he entitles himself to the money that his mother has.
00:52:59
Caroline
ah
00:53:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I think DNA evidence found inside his brother's belt was damning. Donald dragged the bodies as evidenced at the scene through bloodstain analysis. But I do wonder about whether he was guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I believe he's guilty.
00:53:16
Caroline
Yes. But was it?
00:53:18
Caroline
Yeah. Okay. yeah
00:53:18
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
but
00:53:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I don't know. Was he doomed by bad and very inaccurate false news about the Wicca religion? i wonder if that tainted the jury pool.
00:53:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I wonder if he will win a new trial now that some time has passed. I've looked for appeals. I haven't found any. ah That doesn't mean that he was not denied an appeal.
00:53:42
Caroline
Well, that death penalty ah thing tells me you're not far off here. That there are some elements worth revisiting because it could be changed today. However, I wouldn't want to do it if if now it's not a unanimous thing with the death penalty. i mean, Donald, you are already shown like
00:54:00
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:54:00
Caroline
Yeah, they weren't unanimous, but they were close.
00:54:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You came close.
00:54:02
Caroline
Yeah.
00:54:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You came close. My overarching thoughts about this case are that Donald is going to die in prison, but I don't know. We shall
Life in Prison and Future Speculations
00:54:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
see.
00:54:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He might get a new trial. And as you say, boy, that's a that's a risk that i if I were him, I would just take take my hits and find a way to live ah um meaningful life in prison.
00:54:28
Caroline
Yes. Look for ways for early release credits or parole board credits.
00:54:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah.
00:54:32
Caroline
Try to do your best. But I think
00:54:34
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
This might be the first place he's ever been at where he belongs or feels like he belongs.
00:54:38
Caroline
I was just going to say, i mean, he fought so hard to be even acknowledged as existing by the only people who really should have been doing that the whole time anyway, without having to be asked.
00:54:50
Caroline
And it never worked. So I think like you said, he's got this bubbling rage so far down. It causes a plasticity on the surface, but it's always going to be there. This rage.
00:55:01
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Mm-hmm.
00:55:02
Caroline
Don't be indifferent to me, you know?
00:55:04
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
I just was watching this psychologist on YouTube. I know that that sounds kind of flimsy, but he was making the point that, um I'm not going to mention anybody in person, but he was making the point that
00:55:11
Caroline
Thank you.
00:55:20
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
When people don't have any agency in their family of origin, they don't they can't speak up, they can't talk back, they can't they can they're being brutalized every time they do anything that the powerful people in the family don't like and so forth.
00:55:39
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
There's so much rage built up. And then they are looking their whole life for proxies.
00:55:47
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:55:48
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
for the parents and they don't even know that they're doing it. And he was making the point that politicians, especially, who have that rage are going to be brutal.
00:56:04
Caroline
yeah
00:56:05
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
They're going to victimize people. They're going to reward people who kiss their butt.
00:56:13
Caroline
yeah
00:56:14
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And um i just think that's a truism for me. It has the ring of truth that people who are not treated right, young in their life, and they're scarred, but they don't even know that the way that they behave is directly related
00:56:25
Caroline
Yeah. Yes.
00:56:32
Caroline
yes
00:56:36
Caroline
yes
00:56:37
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And when they find out that the the pathway to, ah you know, to holding all this rage inside can be quite lucrative financially.
00:56:50
Caroline
yeah
00:56:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
You know, you can run a business and run it in such a cutthroat manner um because you are getting back at these parents or the the establishment or the brother or whatever.
00:56:56
Caroline
That's true, actually.
00:57:05
Caroline
Yes, whatever it is that that held you down with this sort of, you know, indifference.
00:57:09
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right. You're still looking for a proxy. If you do not do the work needed to neutralize face-to-face
00:57:12
Caroline
Yeah.
00:57:22
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
acknowledge and be aware and decide that you don't want to identify anymore with that rage.
00:57:32
Caroline
Yeah.
00:57:33
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And yeah it's just a lifelong process of working it through. if if you I don't think there's no sign that Donald did any of that.
00:57:36
Caroline
Yeah. yeah
00:57:41
Caroline
No. Yeah.
00:57:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
He was self-medicating ah with drugs.
00:57:44
Caroline
Self-medicating, denial, just taking abuse.
00:57:47
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And then this unctuous thing that he was doing for his mother and his brothers of the cooking. What in the hell was that about?
00:57:54
Caroline
What
00:57:54
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Was that just about the dog getting to run around in the backyard?
00:57:57
Caroline
Right. Was it about trying to get inheritance? Was it about trying to get acknowledgement as as the oldest in this family?
00:58:02
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Fitting in, having a role, having a role.
00:58:04
Caroline
Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:06
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And, um you know, I watch his interviews with the police and I see him talking about, you know, um the meals that he would serve to his parents and the way his brother was and how the other brother was and how the mother is and the, um you know, her habits of buying from QFC, QVC, whatever.
00:58:27
Caroline
yeah
00:58:29
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
um online buying that she did and so forth and so on. He's very um sort of like, I'm going to paint a picture that is a still life picture.
00:58:39
Caroline
Yeah, like a Norman Rockwell portrait, right?
00:58:42
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Right.
00:58:42
Caroline
i mean Yeah.
00:58:43
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Yeah. Yeah. You're just going to, you're just going to be painting it, but you can't ever actually be there.
00:58:48
Caroline
Nope.
00:58:49
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So sad.
00:58:50
Caroline
That is sad.
00:58:51
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
So, so sad. So, ah listeners, today's episode is researched, written, and narrated by Bridget and Caroline, produced by Andy. Our research is solely based on public domain documents, including legal documents, articles, and books about our subject.
00:59:08
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
And go check out the um the Oxygen ah program. It was really good on this on this murder. Episodes are aired every other week. And if you like us, please subscribe.
00:59:21
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
Give us a five-star review. Tell your friends about us in person and by social media. All of these actions help new listeners find us. And we want to thank our listeners today.
00:59:32
Andy, Bridget and Caroline
We really appreciate you. And one other thing, don't forget to live and let live. Well, bye-bye, Caroline.
00:59:43
Caroline
Bye-bye.