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EPISODE 52 - Patriots vs Steelers aftermath. Must win vs Carolina.
304 Plays11 days ago
5 turnovers. gross. Mike Vrabel coaching?
Drake Maye developing well.
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction and Context
00:00:00
Savage Boston
Alright guys, welcome back to the Savage Boston Podcast. We are here tonight with the the OG crew. I'm Scott from Savage Boston Sports. We're here with Snooty, Snooty Boston on Twitter, and our guy Brett from Savage Boston Sports.
00:00:14
Savage Boston
It's approximately 8.30, September 23rd, and
Reflecting on the Loss to the Steelers
00:00:18
Savage Boston
we're recording. This is after Steelers, the loss to the Steelers, which again, I'm sure it looked pretty bad on TV. It felt even worse in person.
00:00:28
Savage Boston
And I'm somehow already 0-2 this season in person at home, which is just just incredible. So i to get into it off the bat, right, like everyone's, you know, people have touched on this stuff already, and we're here to get our
Turnovers and Mistakes: The Patriots' Achilles Heel
00:00:42
Savage Boston
thoughts out, right? um You know, I think like watching the game in person watching it live, it felt pretty unbelievable that they kept turning the ball over. Like it was almost like insane to watch. I know it's the most turnovers they've had since 2008.
00:00:57
Savage Boston
two thousand and eight um five in a game. But like when you're watching, you're like, you're like, it can't, it like, it can't get worse now. And then it keeps getting worse. And like the weirdest part is they were largely, they were the better team for the majority of the game.
00:01:08
Snooty
Thank you.
00:01:12
Bret
Thank
00:01:12
Savage Boston
They were better. Like at least the middle, you know, basically the middle two and a half quarters, they dominated the football game. And I mean, you, you know, you can bring up stats like the yardage stats where I think total yards, the Patriots had three 69, the Steelers had two Oh three.
00:01:28
Savage Boston
You held them 203 total yards. so um So, yeah, why don't we start off, Stoody? Why don't you give me your kind of your initial take from the game, takeaways, and we'll we'll kind of we'll get rolling.
00:01:39
Snooty
It's kind of a weird game. I tweeted this out where it's like, the Patriots had absolutely no business winning that game. Because you know if you turn the ball over five times, you you're never going to win a game. But they also should have won that game by like three scores. It makes no sense that like that they did that.
00:01:55
Snooty
um I mean, i just... I'm very, very surprised at the level of sloppiness from the team. I know they're not like the talent isn't there, but like the discipline is just not there either at the moment.
00:02:06
Snooty
Like just turnover, turnover worthy plays like the May one was really stupid because it's like he's done that before and he's got to learn. Like we've said this for over a year now that like you sometimes you just got to eat the sack and like it's over.
00:02:19
Bret
and You're talking the fumble, not the pick.
00:02:22
Snooty
The fumble, yeah. like You just got to eat the eat the sack. like It is what it is. like just Just go down and hold on to the ball.
Decision-Making and Missed Opportunities
00:02:29
Snooty
um From Andre, i don't see how you can play him this week. like It's just they they were the better team, yet they didn't win, which is incredibly demoralizing in the short term because it's it's one of those where you like you don't win a lot, that so you it really hurts to let one slip away like that.
00:02:50
Savage Boston
Brad, what's your thoughts?
00:02:50
Bret
um but I mean, that's just it. I just look at it and think it's a ah lost opportunity that we let slip away because we quite literally let the ball slip out of our hands at the most critical moments of the game when we should have been able to capitalize. So it's frustrating because it was really self-evident.
00:03:11
Bret
Didn't go to the game, but watching the game that we really... dominated for a large sum of the game. um And, you know, I know we'll get it on the defensive side of the game and, you know, where, how they perform, but just on offense, like we were able to move the ball and it seemed like at times we were able to move the ball really effectively. And then we get down and we just have such costly errors at just the
Debate on Benching Players for Turnovers
00:03:40
Bret
worst moments. I think,
00:03:42
Bret
The pick, I would have thrown, i would have asked him to really kind of throw it towards the sticks at more of a lofted throw to the kind of back stick rather than trying to thread it through the needle and then it gets tipped and then next thing you know, it's getting picked.
00:03:57
Bret
So that, I do think he could have thrown that a little bit better, but sometimes I do think you know, when Hayward, I think it was, I got the tip on it. i mean, those are tough ones for a quarterback to have to eat when the lineman doesn't get pushed and he's just jumps up and blocks it. Like it's hard for a quarterback to anticipate that. And you just tip it and go through, but you're right. The fumble he's got to learn. And that's the shit that drives us crazy with may is just not recognizing that. But you know i think in large part, May had control of the offense and played well.
00:04:33
Bret
I agree with Stevenson. I think this is just far too many toover turnovers. What's it like, eight turnovers in 16 games or something like that? it's just like It's just a crazy amount of turnovers that you just you look at that and say, how can you possibly line that guy up and say, no we're going to continue to go to him.
00:04:52
Bret
when he's just that costly of a a turnover machine. Like, you just can't do it
00:04:58
Savage Boston
So I'd say with, you know, obviously Romandre is the, you know, pretty much, I guess, the biggest biggest talking point. there there's There's a couple others. But to start with Mondre, like, what what do you do with him now? Like, that's kind of the more more my angle. It's like ah when you play Miami, you're like, holy moly, like this guy had a great game. He was outstanding.
00:05:16
Savage Boston
And then he single-handedly loses you a game, virtually, like single-handedly. um And so you're like, all right, like where do we go now? Because you can't have a player that can't
Coaching Strategies and Player Management
00:05:28
Savage Boston
hold the football. And obviously this is a pattern. This is not like new now. It's a pattern. So what do you do with the player?
00:05:34
Savage Boston
you sit him a game? do you just bury him on the depth chart and put him on just third down to block? like What do we do with him? Serious question. throw it to you guys. What do you do with the laundry right now?
00:05:44
Bret
Yeah, I think you bury him. I know a lot of people are saying, cut him, get him off the team, send a message to the team and wear that.
00:05:50
Savage Boston
Not it.
00:05:52
Bret
But I don't know.
00:05:55
Savage Boston
Thank you.
00:05:55
Bret
Part of me thinks like that is really overstated, right? Like people sit there and say, he fumbled the ball. You got to send a message to the team. Accountability. I just don't see it that way. like The guy knows he messed up.
00:06:08
Bret
If you're a professional at this level, you know that's not an acceptable play. You bury him on the depth chart. You're sending enough of a message. I don't know what you necessarily gain by cutting the player. um and Again, like it's one of those things where it's just like, okay, you cut him, and then you pick up some Joe Schmo off the street to be able to try and come in and and help out with the offense. I generally don't think...
00:06:32
Bret
I think running backs are a dime a dozen. i think they're pretty replaceable unless you get elites of the elites. But then you even talk about like Derek Henry and they're talking about his fumbles, right? You know what I mean?
00:06:42
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:06:42
Bret
It was like one of the greatest running backs going right now. So it's just, it's going to happen. I just, I don't see, i would bury him. I don't see the benefit in cutting him. i don't think it sends, the the kind of message that you need to send to the team because like these are guys that have relationships with them and they recognize there's a business but like I just think it's it's silly to say cut them for this this you know incident.
00:07:08
Snooty
This is where Vrabel needs to be a bit of that, you know, kind of psychologist as a coach where it's like you have to actually see how the player is going to respond. What like what is going to push him to respond? Is he pressing and he's like he's trying too much? He's thinking too much. All right. Yeah. Then you probably sit him.
00:07:25
Snooty
Right. And you try to like.
00:07:25
Bret
Thanks.
00:07:26
Snooty
Give him a breather, you know, like, you know, put him on the ninth floor, whatever it is, and just like let him just give him a week to like kind of reset almost. Right. He's still obviously going to practice. He's still going to be there, but maybe he either doesn't dress and you call up Terrell Jennings from the practice squad or, you know, he gets minimal reps in the game.
00:07:44
Snooty
If it's an effort thing, like he's not putting in the work, which, again, I don't think this is the case. But, like, if that were the case, that's that's the only instance where you could cut him, where you set the example of, like, look, you fuck around, you fuck up the game, like, you're gone.
00:07:49
Savage Boston
Yeah, just so.
00:07:57
Snooty
know what mean? That's the only instance where you're going to cut him. But it doesn't seem like he's doing that. It seems like he's, like you said, he's very well-liked and respected in the locker room. He obviously has potential. And not that you want to do this, but, like – You know, you need playmakers. And if the guy can make plays, then like, you know what I mean? You've got to try to get them right. But this is supposedly supposed to be one of Rabel's strengths, which is like being able to connect with players and being able to understand, have have his finger on the pulse of the locker room and kind of know how his players work. Right. And think so like that. This is an example. He has to be able to figure that out and get get him back on track.
00:08:33
Savage Boston
Well, Snooty, now that you mentioned Mike Vrabel, that provides a great segue into, I would say, what um what should we expect? The good question is, what should we really expect from a Mike Vrabel team?
00:08:49
Savage Boston
And what I mean by that is, you know, before the game, Breer just came out with saying, and I read this somewhere else too. It's not just from beer, but he talked to TJ Watt after the game and TJ Watt told him Tomlin showed the whole team a clip early in the week of the Patriots and said, here's Ramon or Stevenson fumbling.
00:08:56
Bret
Thank you.
00:09:07
Savage Boston
Here's Antonio Gibson fumbling and Drake may fumbling. And he goes, we're going to get a couple of these in this game. And that's how they won. So to me, that's like an obvious coach advantage there to Tomlin.
00:09:19
Savage Boston
ah who you know And I get it. The Steelers have their problems. But like maybe Tomlin prepared his team better for this game despite what I think the Patriots are just a better football team than the Steelers.
00:09:31
Savage Boston
And so if Vrabel is supposed to be the master motivator, CEO type guy, Dan Campbell, you know and he and he comes out with his his messaging, right? like Like number one was don't turn the ball over.
00:09:45
Savage Boston
right you know beating bad football. like I forget, he had like three things, you know but the first one was like don't turn the ball over. you They're worse than they were last year by a lot in turnover margin, and they're worse than they were last year by a lot in penalties.
00:10:01
Savage Boston
So again, what should we expect from a Mike Vrabel team right now?
Discipline Issues and Penalties
00:10:09
Bret
Yeah, i I think, and it's interesting, right? You talk about the penalties. And he got he was said it in one of his interviews pretty recently where Vrabel was talking about how when he was first a head coach at the Titans, he used to like overly police the penalties. But then he talked about, statistically speaking,
00:10:30
Bret
He's like, it's really like the critical penalties, the the it's like a 50-50 split on the penalty component on like who actually wins the game. And then he talked about what is factors on the win rate. So it's almost like his messaging is contradicting what he had from the initial press conference, which is,
00:10:50
Bret
we're going to win games by capitalizing on bad and if bad play. Like when other teams mess up, we're going win on those games by playing good sound football versus and capitalizing on bad football.
00:11:05
Bret
the The challenge is clearly... They lost that game being the better team because they did not capitalize on bad football and they created too many bad football plays for them to be able to go through. Now, I'm not going to give Tomlin roses for basically saying, yeah, we coached up and flagged the guys that are fumble prone and and told them we're probably going to get a couple of fumbles in this game.
00:11:30
Bret
Like, yeah. I bet you Mike McDaniels did the same effing thing the week prior, right? And that guy just got, yeah, I bet you he did. And I would guarantee you that the way these coaches go about it, they recognize where those things are at and they're going to coach that stuff up. So I'm not going to give Tomlin the roses there. I think...
00:11:49
Bret
Pittsburgh's got a ton of problems and they're there. It's crazy that we lost that game. Let me just put it that It's just crazy. We had to have five turnovers and then even have the stupid boneheaded pop Douglas play at the end to not convert for them to be able to walk away with a W. Like they have a team gives up five turnovers. You should have scored way more than 21 points.
00:12:15
Snooty
Yeah, i mean, I don't think Pittsburgh's very good. I think, you know, the fact that we're even having this type of discussion speaks volumes about the kind of team they are at this point than more than the the type of team the Patriots are.
00:12:25
Savage Boston
They're not a good team.
00:12:26
Snooty
But they're not. Yeah. I mean, I'm personally shocked by the by the kind of the lack of discipline. I just think, you know, some of the items were a lot of the false starts and stuff like that. I kind of wonder if it's May's cadence.
00:12:41
Snooty
I know there was one play, I think it was against Miami, where when a quarterback wants to change the call, he he comes up and says, kill, kill. But he said, kill. I could hear it on TV. He said, kill, like it was the cadence. he gets up there. He's like,
00:12:53
Snooty
kill, kill! And they're like they like, three of them jumped. It's like, alright, Jesus, dude. like You can't mock the fucking cadence with the kill call. um I wonder if it's something to do with May's cadence, because they got a lot of false start penalties up front.
00:13:07
Snooty
um You can live with some of the physical mistakes, but it's shit like that. Like, the defensive holding, alright, Alex Austin, one of my calls I don't think it was a penalty, the one on the fumble that they recovered. But, like, you can live with the physical mistakes if you're going to be a physical corner.
00:13:21
Snooty
Like, you you know what I mean? Like, you can live with that. You can't live with the stupid fucking false starts. The offsides are fucking out, like, infuriating. The fact that they keep lining up offsides.
00:13:33
Snooty
Just straight up lining up offsides. Like, what the fuck are you doing?
00:13:35
Savage Boston
Yeah, look Chase on that like three times on defense. i don't know what he's doing.
00:13:38
Bret
Or like on when you're going like 10 yards downfield, like, dude, what are you doing?
00:13:42
Savage Boston
I watched that on replay. I was like, what's he doing?
00:13:45
Bret
Like, he just kept going and then he just slowly backs up. I'm like, guy, you can like, that is just, you cannot do that. Like that's ah inexcusable.
00:13:53
Snooty
He should have just fallen to the ground and been like, oops.
00:13:56
Savage Boston
I mean, they're obviously – they're not disciplined, clearly.
00:13:56
Snooty
It would have been
00:13:58
Bret
Thank you.
00:14:01
Savage Boston
They're not a disciplined team. They make mistakes all the time. um You know, the reason why they have a win, you can go either way, right? The games are close. They have one win because A-Chain steps out of bounds.
00:14:12
Savage Boston
You know what i mean? And and then we we don't have this win because Ramondra Stevenson decided to fumble on the goal line and Drake threw a pass. They had two fucking goal line turnovers.
00:14:23
Savage Boston
That's almost – that's ridiculous. It, like, doesn't even happen. What's the odds on that shit? How often does that happen? That's what pisses me off is watching i was like, I can't believe they just can't figure this shit out.
00:14:35
Snooty
The one thing I'll say is like, because I saw this stat from Evan Lazar earlier today where he was like, Patriots are like, and don't know, first or second in like missed tackles on defense.
Defense Performance and Turnover Impact
00:14:45
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yeah.
00:14:45
Snooty
But they are top 10 in terms of yardage allowed after a missed tackle. I think they're 10th, which means they're like yards allowed after a tackle is very minimal, relatively speaking, which means they're swarming to the ball and they're trying to gang tackle.
00:15:02
Snooty
They just can't fucking do it when they get there.
00:15:03
Bret
so So it's after a missed tackle? The yards gained after a missed tackle?
00:15:07
Snooty
Yeah.
00:15:10
Bret
Okay, get what you're saying.
00:15:11
Snooty
the they're they're good, which means, and Vrabel spoke about this, which means that they're flying to the ball, right? They're they're gang tackling, but the first guy just review um it has, i don't know, some inability to get the guy down, I guess.
00:15:25
Snooty
I don't know. like Which is like, is that a talent issue?
00:15:25
Bret
Well, they talked about...
00:15:28
Snooty
Or is that like a it's not an effort issue if they're all flying there, but is that just like, hey, you know what? We're not overly talented, but but we can at least get there.
00:15:37
Bret
Yeah, I mean, they talked about that and they're out during the game. And they were talking about when they were talking to Spillane and just asking Spillane his thought. And he basically said, like, it's just we got to get back to fundamental football about, you know, tackling technique. And it's just it comes down to the players more so than like schematically. Because to your point, like, the scheme is there. They're making the right decisions.
00:16:03
Bret
approach when it happens and you know i think we are our defense i mean granted i don't think pittsburgh's a barn burner offense like we had to navigate through with miami which we we struggled with miami at times uh pittsburgh i mean we pretty much like shut them down for like the entire second half until that's not yeah
00:16:23
Savage Boston
in two of They You take that any any single game, they had 200 yards of offense.
00:16:28
Snooty
Yeah. Yeah.
00:16:30
Savage Boston
Do you what mean?
00:16:30
Bret
and
00:16:30
Snooty
Yeah.
00:16:31
Bret
And think about like the turnovers, where they were. so like ah give them good field position, other than the two in the red zone.
00:16:36
Savage Boston
i mean they They turned over five times we were tied in the fourth quarter. i was like, this is stupid. This is like this is ridiculous. like They should have been up by a lot of points.
00:16:42
Snooty
yeah
00:16:44
Savage Boston
And Vrabel said that turn it over five times, there's a fo only a 5% chance you can win the football game. And he said that most teams would be up by at at minimum 18 points.
00:16:49
Snooty
yeah
00:16:54
Savage Boston
so variable said So, statistically, they were in the game because the defense, obviously. Not to go on the D yet. I want to talk about Drake May just for a second. I got a good stat here.
Drake May's Development and Potential
00:17:03
Savage Boston
This this guy, i don't know who this is, but Sam Hoppen on Twitter. I think he's another, like, stat guy.
00:17:09
Savage Boston
It's a great stat. He said, how quarterbacks perform in expected passing situations through week three. Just i've recently tweeted this out. um it's EPA per play, right?
00:17:20
Savage Boston
And you know the top three quarterbacks are an expected, and this is unexpected passing situation. So basically like ah where the pass probability is greater than 70%, third and long, fourth long, whatever.
00:17:33
Savage Boston
Who's the top three? All
00:17:36
Snooty
I mean, I think I saw this, so i don't want
00:17:38
Bret
I mean, I would say Josh Allen's probably up there.
00:17:38
Savage Boston
right, Brett, who's the top three?
00:17:39
Savage Boston
He's number one.
00:17:45
Bret
ah Drake.
00:17:49
Savage Boston
Lamar's number two.
00:17:51
Bret
okay
00:17:52
Savage Boston
And who's number three?
00:17:54
Bret
drake
00:17:55
Savage Boston
Drake May. So, I mean, what that tells you is like, it Drake May is three in all of football. I mean, so even despite being one and two, despite all the bullshit, Drake May doesn't have a full year's worth of football played yet.
00:18:11
Savage Boston
Just want to make this clear to people. And like, He is developing how you want. He's doing what you want. And only people are just mad online. He's not bombing it deep. Like, I don't, I don't, I think that's what people are mad at.
00:18:23
Savage Boston
Like that, that he's dinking Duncan, but like he's being a pretty productive quarterback with what he has. Yeah. Like clean up the turnovers. You can't turn the ball over. Make, don't make stupid plays.
00:18:35
Savage Boston
But he's still being a really productive quarterback. And i do I think by the end of the season, he really could be a true top 10 quarterback in the league. And, like, you're fucking off and running, dude.
00:18:45
Savage Boston
like we Because even if you barely miss the playoffs or something or miss by a couple games, you're going talking all off season too.
00:18:48
Bret
Thank you.
00:18:52
Savage Boston
Like, what are we doing to add to this roster? Because time is now. you know And I think I really do think they got a guy. And that's that's what you need in this league. Like, you don't know if Caleb Williams is the guy yet.
00:19:04
Savage Boston
The commanders think they got a guy in Jane Daniels, but they just blew out a team with, I forget, with Mariota in there.
00:19:10
Snooty
Marietta. marotta
00:19:11
Savage Boston
you know They blew someone out. It's just like J.J. McCarthy goes down and then the Vikings blow someone out with Wentz, right? So like sometimes the systems are good in these teams.
00:19:19
Bret
Oh.
00:19:21
Savage Boston
you know like Vikings have a great system that McCarthy could not operate well. You know, same with the Commanders. have a good team, a pretty good system, really good offensive coaching, right? ah Good play calling.
00:19:32
Savage Boston
So, like, yeah, if you have a good system, it can work. So all saying is McDaniels is doing – McDaniels and Drake are doing what they have to do right now. I'm happy about the development. just Just keep progressing.
00:19:44
Savage Boston
That's it.
00:19:44
Bret
Well, just think of us from a system side of things. I mean, people talk about, like, Baker and how, like, his career and where it's at now. And now you look in Tampa and, like, what he has with system and weapons and stuff.
00:19:56
Bret
And Baker's, like, top five quarterback right now. You know? Like, arguably top five quarterback.
00:20:00
Savage Boston
he's He's not as good this season, but he's yes, he's had a really, really good resurgence. He's been a really good quarterback for a couple
00:20:06
Bret
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that I see with Drake so far, especially the last two games following up on his first game where he just looked like he was rushing and just didn't look comfortable. ah He looks comfortable.
00:20:20
Bret
Like, he looks, like, fully in control, Yeah. and again like i look at the the pick play like i would have thrown a different ball and you know just based on the view and then obviously we talked about like the fumble like really bad but just overall he just looks in control he looks in command of the offense he's making the right reads the right place at making and excellent passes like a lot of like um on the dime gotta have it throws just like right there so he's showing what he what we need to see from him and the more we get him involved in learning the system and getting in with josh mcdanos on that the better he's going to be and then you start adding legitimate weapons around him like we could be off and running
00:21:11
Snooty
I think Tom Brady broke this region in like, he just broke the minds of people around here. Cause he's like, you look it and it's like, if it's not Tom Brady, they suck.
00:21:22
Snooty
And you're like, okay, well, no, that's a ludicrously high benchmark to reach. Right?
00:21:27
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:21:27
Snooty
like He's doing, he's, he's progressing. And like, I understand being incredibly frustrated and angry for losing that game in the short term, but like big picture, like he's developing, he's doing, this is what you want. Right. Like, so I get it. You're pissed off. And I was too, but like, I'm not going to flush everything out just because that happened.
Patience with Vrabel's Leadership
00:21:48
Snooty
Like, it's okay.
00:21:50
Snooty
Like, it's okay.
00:21:50
Savage Boston
Didn't we say before the season we said, like, hey, what if they win seven games but Drake develops well? And you'd be like, yep, take that every time, all day, right?
00:21:58
Snooty
Yeah.
00:21:59
Savage Boston
We all said that.
00:21:59
Snooty
yeah
00:22:00
Savage Boston
Everyone agreed. and everyone on fucking Twitter the internet agreed. Then you get in the season – Drake's developing, and now, like, you know, I'm happy people are talking positively about Drake, and I think he does deserve it, and he's worked really hard, and I think he's got a good head on his shoulders.
00:22:16
Savage Boston
The Vrabel dialogue is going to get really hot.
00:22:16
Bret
Thank you.
00:22:18
Savage Boston
So, if Vrabel – if they lose the game Sunday, i think you're going to get some pretty angry dialogue. um And some of it deserved, you know, like – but especially if they lose it in a really sloppy way. Again, like if they're fumbling and committing turnovers and penalties, then yeah, Vrabel's going to get a lot of heat because, you know, they were a more disciplined, hardworking team last year with Mayo.
00:22:41
Savage Boston
So, what's...
00:22:42
Snooty
And I think, I think the other part of it is like, and we, as a fan base, we have to, to not fall into this trap. I know it's five years post Brady. I know they've been bad, but this is the first year under the regime.
00:22:54
Snooty
You can't hold the sins of past regimes and the end of Belichick night.
00:22:57
Savage Boston
No.
00:22:59
Snooty
you Obviously seen sins of Belichick is, is a little bit extreme. It's like the last two years, but it's the last two years, but you know what i mean?
00:23:03
Savage Boston
The Sins of Belichick.
00:23:07
Snooty
Like, You can't hold that against Rabel now.
00:23:09
Savage Boston
The ghost of Belichick passed.
00:23:10
Snooty
you can't You can't get impatient. Like, it's it's year're effectively year one for May still, right, if you consider a new new system and all that.
00:23:18
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:23:20
Snooty
Like, it's he doesn't even have 17 games started under his belt, like much less played, because I think he started two games that he, like, didn't finish last year. so You know, he's, he's, it's very, very early and there's way more positive than, than the negative for, for may and for the offense in general.
00:23:38
Snooty
Like, so yes, the negative is very bad.
00:23:38
Bret
ah hundred percent
Wide Receiver Strategies and Adjustments
00:23:41
Savage Boston
I want to talk about a specific player and I feel like this is a big talking point and everyone was talking about it. I tweeted out right away. You know, when you're, when the game's going on and you tweet something, ah yeah there's so many people online and on there, it was like thousands of people and likes and got like, it's hard to decipher through everything. That's just how internet works.
00:24:00
Savage Boston
But obviously you get, I like kind of doing this a couple of days later and you can kind of see everything settle. Right. And like, so with pop Douglas, okay. Um, guy that cooked all camp was great in the off season, clearly a good target.
00:24:13
Savage Boston
You're like, wow, he's had a great camp. And here we are in the season. I think he has like 12 yards or something through three games and, um, something like that.
00:24:21
Snooty
thirteen
00:24:23
Savage Boston
Like Kyle Williams has more yards than pop Douglas. You know what i mean? And, and, And it's not just that he's not being productive.
00:24:30
Bret
Thank you.
00:24:30
Savage Boston
It's that every time Drake tries to throw him the football, it kind of just looks like shit. Whether it's Drake throwing behind him, he's not stopping in the zone, whether he's too short and Drake's getting him high. Like, it just feels like it's just not working.
00:24:46
Savage Boston
And i don't know, is he a special enough guy that you have to scheme up all these things to get the ball to pop Douglas? Like, i don't think, like, he's not like Travion Henderson in that way. Like like i don't think you need to be doing slip screens quit like all the time unless you feel like they're going to be productive plays, then do it.
00:25:02
Savage Boston
But like I've still been clamoring for a couple changes, right?
00:25:03
Bret
Thank you.
00:25:06
Savage Boston
The first change I want to see is, you know, A, you could you could try Stephon Diggs more in the slot instead of Pop, and I think that could work. Everyone says that. He's great in the slot. Diggs is a good player. You could try that.
00:25:18
Savage Boston
I would like to see, obviously, more Kyle Williams. who I just want – I just don't want them burying another rookie wide receiver. I just don't want it to happen. And especially they're burying him behind fucking Mack Hollins, because who's not bad, but it's because he blocks well.
00:25:34
Savage Boston
And they're just playing 12 personnel all the time because it's the most successful formation. There's a fucking Mack Hollins, two tight ends, and Drake under center. And like if it works, it works, but I don't want to bury another wide receiver.
00:25:50
Savage Boston
And the final point I'm making is I'd like to see, can we activate Chisholm and just see what you have and get him some time in the slot?
00:25:53
Bret
Well,
00:25:58
Savage Boston
And maybe he gets a rapport with Drake. And you're say you say, know, it's like Pop was a six-round pick. Chisholm's undrafted. That's not that far off. Why can't you give him an opportunity too? Because, again, what I'm seeing for Pop and Drake is just they're not working together.
00:26:09
Snooty
and
00:26:12
Savage Boston
Something's not clicking. So, you know.
00:26:15
Bret
well
00:26:15
Snooty
It's been like that for last year too. Like it's just something doesn't work. And I know they had one one connection called back on a penalty and one of the plays was a bad throw by May.
00:26:19
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:26:24
Snooty
But like it just had hasn't worked for multiple weeks since last year and this year.
00:26:28
Bret
Okay.
00:26:30
Snooty
just doesn't Something doesn't work right. So look, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. i Pop could be a fine player. I don't think he's a bad person or anything like that. and i Honestly, I hope I'm wrong and he succeeds here, but like it's not working right now.
00:26:46
Snooty
so Get me Williams. I know why they put Hooper out there because they want their best players out there, but get Williams out there. Get somebody out there. Anybody.
00:26:55
Savage Boston
I don't mind 12 personnel, but are they just not going to play like three wide, four wide? Like they're just going to stay in it with two tight ends the whole game. Like it's not exactly Gronk and Hernandez, not to go to bring Hernandez reference, but like it's not at the same talent level.
00:27:11
Savage Boston
And I think hunter's Hunter Henry is a good player too. Like Hunter is maybe one of the best offensive players.
00:27:15
Snooty
Underrated. He's supremely underrated.
00:27:16
Savage Boston
you know, he's been – yeah, he's been great. He's been a great player. I just think like you got way to move the ball in different formations too. And like they found this strategy where they can just sit in 12 personnel, try to trick teams into thinking they're running the football and get Drake rollout. Drake, like old school, kind of like some West coast stuff. i don't know, like big rollouts, but at some point you're going to sit there and say, Hey, do we put Drake and shotgun and go four wide? Can we play like that?
00:27:45
Savage Boston
You know, like you're going to have to find other ways to play because long story short, they can't run the fucking football. mean, that's period. They can pass. Drake can find it and Drake can pass and he's been good, but they cannot fucking run the football period.
00:27:57
Savage Boston
I've seen the stats. It's really bad. So they're the worst running team in football right now, basically.
00:28:00
Bret
Yeah, not... no Yeah, they can't... i mean, they're basically... whats And what's good here is as Josh is running the ball... to keep the defense honest, even though we're really not getting a ton out of it because he got so lopsided in the first game where he only ran it twice in the second half. But ah back to ah talking about Pop, I mean, I'm done with Pop. I think you bury him just like you'd bury Ramondre, and you just look at it and say, like, ah what value add is a guy like that? Like, you didn't invest a ton in the guy.
00:28:34
Bret
I'm sure he's a great guy, but you got to earn your spot. And if he's not out there competing, then you can't do it. And to me, like, I'm going to harp in on his postgame comments.
00:28:44
Snooty
you
00:28:45
Bret
And i know we were talking about it. And, like, there were some comments about, like, oh, well, maybe he just laughed because it's nervous and he doesn't like interviews. But I look at it and say after a loss like that and you don't convert on a play like that when you have it,
00:29:01
Bret
I want my players to like have a compete level and be frustrated and be like, I got to do better. You know, I, I, I feel like I didn't do well by my team.
00:29:13
Bret
We'll look at the film, look at the opportunities, get back to, you know, like I just, I get the question maybe, but like, he just seems like he just doesn't care. And i just look at it I'm like, you don't seem like you care all that much. You're not in, you're not adding anything on the field. You don't seem like you're in sync with me. So it's like, I'm even putting it in the work, like put
Motivating Players and Team Dynamics
00:29:34
Bret
someone else in there. That's going to compete.
00:29:37
Savage Boston
Yeah, i mean, at least with with Chisholm, again, it's just an unknown. Like, if he gets on the field, runs the same routes, same patterns, is he better at sitting in the zone?
00:29:44
Snooty
Thank you.
00:29:47
Savage Boston
Is he better at getting open quick? I mean, Pop, by all measures, should be a faster, quicker player.
00:29:53
Bret
Thank
00:29:54
Savage Boston
He's a faster player. He's really athletic, really fat really quick. Chisholm is really quick, too. But if you look up just measurables-wise, Pop is very, very athletic. The problem is he's just tiny and... you know, Chisholm would be a more physical player. He's bigger than you think. He's like five, 10, five, 11, 200. Like he's a more, little more physical player.
00:30:11
Savage Boston
He doesn't have straight line speed, kind of like Wes Welker ish speed, know, like four, seven, but like, like an Edelman, by the way, was really athletic and fast. People have got Edelman around a four, four Edelman was very, very quick and twitchy.
00:30:25
Savage Boston
So not the same, like Chisholm is a little twitchy quick, but he doesn't have the same speed type that Edelman did. So, I don't hope he develops. They apparently don't want him playing unless he can do many things and block and play X. And it's like, that's great. They're trying to develop the wide receiver. But, you know, I just wonder, like, does Ray bought the balls to make, like, I think he does like to make a more drastic move and just come out say, yeah, like we're going to bench Ramondre. He's not going to go. We're going you know,
00:30:54
Savage Boston
Pops can start on the bench. We're going roll Chisholm and Diggs in the slot. And Kyle Williams. is Like, does he have the balls for that? And I think he does because – I hope he does because right now, like, you're going to have to figure something out.
00:31:08
Savage Boston
Yeah, they move ball, but they can't punch it in the fucking end zone they can't and they still can't score very well.
00:31:08
Bret
Well,
00:31:13
Savage Boston
So –
00:31:13
Bret
i again, I'll just circle back. Like, what do you gain by telling, going out on a press conference and talking about pregame, whatever, and basically saying, yeah yeah, we're benching them for the game?
00:31:25
Bret
Like, ah you think you're sending a message to these players about just deal with it in-house. They'll see it in the play. And then when he gets asked about a postgame, hey, we noticed that Ramondre didn't get any touches this game. Was that intentional?
00:31:39
Bret
And he, you know, he could just fluff it off. But, like, deal with it in-house. To me, I think it's...
00:31:44
Savage Boston
And
00:31:46
Bret
It's stupid to go out there and air your grievances out and basically publicly call a player out in in that fashion. I i just i don't see it ever really working all that well.
00:31:57
Snooty
It can. Parcells was big on that, but he would do it and he would target that specifically. Like he went after Terry Glenn and the whole, you know she can play thing like, and all that, like he would target specific players at specific instances.
00:32:11
Snooty
It goes back to knowing what like he's going to like knowing which buttons to push for your players, like individually.
00:32:17
Bret
But do you think that works? Do you think that works in this day and age?
00:32:21
Savage Boston
works with It works with only specific...
00:32:21
Snooty
It can, it can.
00:32:23
Savage Boston
specific
00:32:24
Bret
name one coach Name one coach that does it.
00:32:27
Snooty
Well, they all do it, but it it depends on the specific players that can do it.
00:32:30
Bret
No, name one coach name one coach that coaches on the same level that Parcells did when he calls out his players. You just had it with Jerry Jones. Look what happened there.
00:32:39
Savage Boston
Yeah, it doesn't work.
00:32:40
Snooty
Oh, no, no.
00:32:41
Savage Boston
I mean, it doesn't work like it used to, certainly. And but and there's less Bill Belichick's who will publicly, like personally just rip you in front of your team like that.
00:32:45
Snooty
Sure.
00:32:48
Savage Boston
The guys are, they're multimillionaire adults. You know, the method it's like these are these are these are adults.
00:32:52
Bret
yeah
00:32:53
Snooty
Like...
00:32:54
Savage Boston
so These are adult athletes and they're all massively ripped.
00:32:56
Bret
and And Brable's a former player.
00:32:57
Snooty
But, yes.
00:32:59
Bret
So no, I don't think it would happen from Brable.
00:33:00
Savage Boston
Yeah, no. Yeah. yeah
00:33:02
Bret
I don't think it would ever happen from Brable.
00:33:02
Snooty
No, but.
00:33:04
Bret
And I also don't think it should happen from Brable. And that's why I don't think coaches do that anymore. Because I don't think you gain anything by doing that.
00:33:12
Snooty
Have you ever heard Taylor LeJuan and them talk about the first year or two when Grable was in Tennessee?
00:33:12
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:33:19
Snooty
He was like, they were like, your fucking asshole was tight because he was all over everybody.
00:33:19
Bret
I mean...
00:33:24
Snooty
coming in there, going after people, things like that. It has to be a specific type of player that you can go after, like in the media, like Belichick went after Brady in the media with the whole, like, we know the contract and age situation of the quarterback, because he knew that would piss Brady off and motivate.
00:33:36
Bret
And how that how'd that do for Brady and Belichick's relationship? It didn't do very well for Brady and Yeah.
00:33:41
Snooty
That was five years before he, that was five years before he left and they won Super Bowls after that. You can do it with specific players. You can't blanket like, bell like part, you know, all over the place. You can't be a hard ass all the time to everybody because some people shut down from that.
00:33:56
Bret
Well, and again...
00:33:56
Snooty
But you can specifically target.
00:33:56
Savage Boston
Well, you have to – it's different levels of teaching. It's how you teach.
00:34:00
Snooty
Sure.
00:34:00
Savage Boston
It's the same as why – it's why did Brady and Belichick just work out to begin with is because Brady and Belichick had the perfect combination of him being a psycho-egomaniac who was never satisfied.
00:34:01
Snooty
Yes.
00:34:08
Snooty
yes
00:34:12
Savage Boston
And then Brady also being a psycho who was never satisfied. And there's driving each other in this insane manner so that Brady just kept raising to his expectations.
00:34:22
Savage Boston
And then Belichick kept raising his expectations.
00:34:25
Snooty
Yeah.
00:34:25
Savage Boston
And it created the perfect storm of destruction.
00:34:28
Snooty
But like, but, but it was on, that was on Belichick was able to recognize that like he could call him out and use him to like kind of elevate other people because he could take it and he actually needed that level of coaching, that type of motivation, but not everybody can take that.
00:34:36
Savage Boston
Yeah. Come
00:34:41
Savage Boston
on. Hold on.
00:34:41
Bret
Yes, but
00:34:43
Savage Boston
bring this up Let me bring this up because i thought this was one of the dumbest talking points of this past week before the Steelers game. I almost lost my mind. I couldn't believe we were talking about it. They went on like the radio and opened the day with talking about who the Patriots gave the game balls to. okay I thought that was the dumbest fucking thing.
00:35:01
Savage Boston
like If you know one fucking thing about teaching is and trying to inspire people, You don't need to give a game ball to the best players every time.
00:35:12
Savage Boston
You don't give it to Drake May every time. You say, who had a tough go today and overcame something? I'm going to give them a game ball to inspire them and inspire the team. We're going to raise everyone up.
00:35:24
Savage Boston
And that's what I like about Vrabel and why I think he could work out as his coach. Because he understands that way of teaching. He said Boragallis makes two extra points, but he hit a big kick. Fuck you. You get a fucking game ball. Boom. And then he comes in. Boragallis is like, oh, shit. were He really believes in me.
00:35:40
Savage Boston
Right? It's like this is teaching, man.
00:35:42
Snooty
Two for two this week.
00:35:42
Savage Boston
This is inspiring people to work.
00:35:45
Bret
Well...
00:35:45
Savage Boston
And it made me sick to hear. And, like, um mean i don't need to call, like, Bedard to be. being negative. like I don't know what the fuck he was doing. Maybe he's being reactionary just on Felger and Maz.
00:35:55
Savage Boston
It was fucking ridiculous that he couldn't understand why he gave a game ball to to Marte Mapu instead of Drake May. Use your fucking brain. ah It makes no sense.
00:36:06
Savage Boston
Anyway.
00:36:06
Bret
i do I do think it's funny, though, that Mondray got a game ball on that one, and then now we're talking about benching him. But to circle circle back to what you' were talking about with Vrabel early on, again, he would talk about it, but I don't recall, and maybe I'm missing the mark here, but...
00:36:23
Bret
he he never did it publicly. He didn't call his players out publicly. He may have been a tight ass in the locker room, calling them out, making them ride them constantly on every little thing.
00:36:35
Bret
and And everyone that talks about Vrabel basically says, like, you can't get one up over him. Like, he'll just constantly come at you and come at you. So, like, that i don't think changes. But he's he's a player's coach. He's not going to go out there and then call out Mondray is not gonna call out pop Douglas. He's not gonna call out that he's gonna say as a team We got to do this and we got to do that But like he's never gonna call out a player cuz he that I don't think that's his mo Publicly and I nor do I think he should
00:37:03
Snooty
But I think, I think he has the balls and would do it if it required, if it was required.
00:37:08
Bret
Oh that guy has massive balls like you could do it to anyone I
00:37:09
Savage Boston
Thank you.
00:37:11
Snooty
But that's what I'm saying. Like, but I'm saying, I think he would, if it got to that point, I think he weeds people out, the people that aren't going to fit the type of culture he wants. I think he weeds them out pretty quickly.
00:37:22
Snooty
So he's not like Allah, Jalen Polk getting the fucking boot right away. Right? Like, Polk was never going to be never goingnna work here, so he's out, gone, and you know those types of guys leave. I think if you had someone, like if May was like popping off and being attitude problem or whatever, I don't think Rabel would have any fucking problem calling May out directly in the media.
00:37:43
Snooty
If that's what it took to motivate him or get through to him, I don't think he'd have any problem doing it.
00:37:45
Savage Boston
Yeah. And as you know, that's probably never going to be something that Drake May needs, right?
00:37:52
Snooty
No, no, no.
00:37:52
Savage Boston
Someone like Drake May just needs very well being like, you're the man. You're the leader. Go be a leader. Go celebrate with your team. like Like go be who we know you can be.
Looking Ahead to the Carolina Game
00:38:04
Savage Boston
And that's what that's how – and again, it's a good teachers are going to find what works for everybody.
00:38:09
Savage Boston
you've We've all had good teachers and bad teachers, right? And you've all had people that just shit on everyone. You're like, well, this isn't a very effective way to learn. Right. and and And that's why Belichick worked with some people with others.
00:38:22
Savage Boston
They despise being there.
00:38:22
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:38:23
Savage Boston
And they're like, this is a really shitty environment. Like this is bad for my health. you You know, and the more we get younger people who grow up in this kind of era where they're not growing up with these ah parochial type, like very strict educations.
00:38:36
Savage Boston
It is more like you got to be friendly with them. You got to learn what works for them. Like, you know, you can't just be a hard ass all the time. So, and I think Vrabel understands that about teaching and about coaching.
00:38:43
Bret
Thank
00:38:46
Savage Boston
And so that's what I think he can hopefully do well. There's a lot of people online being like, what does Vrabel bring to the table? What does he do well? And what he is, is he's supposed to be inspiring people, leading people. And he is the overseer of the entire operation.
00:39:02
Savage Boston
From the GM, you know, he's doing every operation. He's even overseeing Josh McDaniel's offense. You know, Josh has control of that. You know he's in all the rooms. So if the operation sucks ass and goes downhill, he's going to be the first one to take the blame.
00:39:18
Savage Boston
If it succeeds, he's going to be the one getting the credit. Or at least he should because he probably deserves it at that point.
00:39:24
Bret
Well, this this week's got to be our get right.
00:39:26
Snooty
thank
00:39:27
Bret
If we don't win this week, it's a bleak, bleak outlook.
00:39:33
Snooty
I would say for sure.
00:39:34
Savage Boston
Great.
00:39:34
Snooty
this is It's not that it's must win, but it's must win if you have if you want to have any type of season.
00:39:40
Savage Boston
If they don't win this game, the internet is going to be borderline untenable, like for Patriots internet.
00:39:41
Snooty
You know I mean?
00:39:47
Savage Boston
it's good I don't even know. ah You're going wild stuff coming out. Wild stuff, especially about Vrabel. So just prepare for that. People are, like, really waiting because you got all the Ben Johnson people who are just – they're waiting there, man.
00:40:01
Savage Boston
They wanted Ben Johnson so bad, and they can feel it. They can taste it.
00:40:04
Bret
oh Chicago finally wins the game and they show
00:40:06
Savage Boston
Well, they win, and they seem like,
00:40:08
Bret
they show
00:40:09
Savage Boston
You know, what could Ben Johnson have done with Drake? You know what I mean? Like, which I'm sure he would have been great. um So just let you know, I hear him. i hear the chirps. The Ben Johnson people are there. They're waiting there.
00:40:21
Savage Boston
So, I mean, is there anything even analysis wise that needs to be said about Carolina other than just you got gotta to find a way to win the football game? You know, they're not good.
00:40:30
Snooty
I mean, they're they're not a good team. They're not. i mean, they're a worse version of you. i mean, sure.
00:40:38
Savage Boston
They have Tett McMillan. He's really good. He's been playing well.
00:40:40
Snooty
And hopefully Gonzalez is back and can erase Tett McMillan.
00:40:43
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:40:44
Snooty
Cool.
00:40:44
Bret
Yeah, let's get let's get Gonzo back and see where it's at.
00:40:45
Snooty
You know what mean?
00:40:48
Bret
But no, Carolina is not a good team. um So we absolutely should win this game. And if we don't, like I said, it's going to be very bleak. So not a ton of analysis to put into it other than we're the We're the better fucking team, which is crazy to think about, but yeah, we're the better team. This was probably so far in our early sets of matchups, the one that you look at and say like, okay, well, this is probably our easiest matchup to date.
00:41:18
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:41:19
Snooty
And I'm going to the game, so they better fucking win.
00:41:19
Savage Boston
um There you go. They really should have I mean, not to harp on it. We'll wrap up soon, but they really should have won last week. i mean, it's just that should have been a game that they really should have won against the Steelers. They are a better team.
00:41:31
Savage Boston
they They're like a much better team.
00:41:31
Bret
Right.
00:41:32
Savage Boston
And they dominated most of the game.
00:41:33
Bret
but like Let's literally just take out the two red zone turnovers. Say they weren't for touchdowns.
00:41:39
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yes.
00:41:40
Bret
We'd be fucking flying high. even though we had Even though we had three other turnovers, we'd still be flying high.
00:41:43
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:41:44
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:41:47
Bret
Well,
00:41:48
Savage Boston
Yeah, they turned it over too much, but got the W. They
00:41:51
Snooty
ah but Big W and all, they covered, you know, we're good.
00:41:52
Bret
I think... i think
00:41:53
Savage Boston
turned it over five fucking times, the most in 17 years.
00:41:58
Bret
I think the best text I got from Snooty following the game was he basically said, I'm not concerned about the offense. Five turnovers aside.
Conclusion and Future Prospects
00:42:08
Bret
And I'm like, that's a pretty big aside.
00:42:11
Savage Boston
five turnovers. I'm really not worried.
00:42:14
Snooty
I know, but like, but here's the other thing. ah Fumbles. ah There's like an element of luck with fumbles. Like you're supposed to only recover about half. They fumbled four times and they lost all four fumbles.
00:42:23
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:42:26
Savage Boston
Unbelievable.
00:42:26
Snooty
Like it's supposed to be, it's, it's not a round ball. It's supposed to bounce weird ways. You're supposed to get it. Like the Steelers fumbled twice and got the ball back twice. It's like, that's not supposed to fucking happen.
00:42:37
Savage Boston
People are pretty demoralized in that stadium. I hope you get a good atmosphere. and i think it'll be pretty subdued in a way. Like I think it's the Steelers. who was a little more ramped up with the throwbacks, but like, you know, this is your kind of classic, I would say like a whole hum Sunday. Like this is probably the first week where there's not a lot of juice.
00:42:55
Savage Boston
to like a rivalry. There's not a lot of juice to the two teams. Like you could drum up things with Brady and Raiders and opener and then Miami and in my, like there's all storylines and drumming up shit.
00:42:59
Bret
Thank you.
00:43:05
Savage Boston
And then Rogers Steelers hype. But this is the first week we're like, all right, it's kind of just a matchup, you know, it's just one o'clock. So I hope that works in their advantage. Like there's no big story. The storyline is just like, yeah, go win a football game.
00:43:19
Savage Boston
There's no other fucking storyline. Go win. So, right. um I mean, I'll take the Patriots winning by, I'll pick them to win again. I get winning by seven. I'll get them winning by seven.
00:43:32
Snooty
twenty seven seventeen patriots
00:43:34
Savage Boston
Ooh, by ten. Seven turnovers later.
00:43:36
Bret
Ooh. Yeah, I'm going
00:43:41
Bret
go 24-10. 24-10. Patriots. Yeah. Hey.
00:43:45
Savage Boston
Patriots.
00:43:45
Bret
twenty four twenty four ten patriots
00:43:48
Savage Boston
major right past fourteen this is All These are all going to reflect really well on us.
00:43:48
Bret
yeah
00:43:54
Savage Boston
Next week, we come in like, oh, my God. It's like we lost by a Boragallus doink, and it was a 10-7 loss.
00:43:57
Bret
hey
00:44:01
Snooty
Two for two last week. Two for two. That game ball helped.
00:44:04
Savage Boston
I know, Boragallus. I'm telling you, maybe he'll be the new Vinatieri. There you go, Snooty. All right, guys, thanks for tuning in. we'll ah We'll catch you next week. Peace.