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EPISODE - 61 Patriots are 10-2. 9 in a row. Buckle Up!
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Transcript
Welcome and Introduction
00:00:01
Savage Boston
right, guys, welcome back to the Savage Boston podcast. We're here today with the OG crew. We got Snooty Boston and we got Brett from Savage Boston Sports representing the brand today. Love it. We're
Patriots vs. Bengals Recap
00:00:14
Savage Boston
here. It is November 25th, around 830 at night, coming off the Pats versus the Bengals game. Kind of a lot to talk about, a lot to digest, um not just about the game, but you know, the direction of the team and the roster and kind of where everything's going.
00:00:33
Savage Boston
um And obviously the team won and they won in kind of super ugly fashion. ah And I would say the first thing is just my first, my first take on it is i feel like they just weren't up for the game just generally like, like either the extra rest time got them, bit them in the butt little bit. Like they had that 10 maybe they,
00:00:54
Savage Boston
go out to a game or, you know, whatever, hit the bar, go home with family, rest a little more, but it got them out of their rhythm. They're consistent, like week to week Sunday at one o'clock thing. and And I think they just weren't up.
00:01:06
Savage Boston
And who knows what you want to say about Drake. We can talk about Drake starting the game, but like, did you guys, I'll throw to you guys right off the bat. Like whoever wants to take it. Did you feel like they just weren't up for the game?
00:01:17
Snooty
mean, I don't see how you can say that they were.
Quarterback and Offensive Analysis
00:01:20
Snooty
i mean, they came out incredibly slow, sloppy, very clearly showed signs of, I don't know how much, how much rust you can accrue in a couple of extra days off, but clearly they were out of their rhythm and they weren't, you know, where they were supposed to be.
00:01:30
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:01:34
Snooty
May specifically, he just looked like, mean, he wasn't driving the ball or anything to the first couple of drives, first few drives. It looks like he was just lofting the pass in there every time. It's like, I understand there's points for that man, but like,
00:01:47
Snooty
got fucking step into a throw here. So, I mean, there's two ways you can spin it. Either they played like shit and they righted themselves and found a way to win a sneaky, gritty game. um Or you could take the pessimist look and say they couldn't run the ball. They couldn't score in the in the on the goal line, basically. um And, you know, that's a very bad defense that they just didn't exploit at all. So, i don't know. I'm slightly...
00:02:18
Snooty
I don't know. I'm slightly more pessimistic than optimistic, I guess, today, but I'm not nearly as up as pessimistic as I was on game day.
00:02:27
Bret
Yeah, to me, it's I would say from a play standpoint, I'm not going to totally beat them up. There was a letdown game. It's the NFL. It's a long season.
00:02:38
Bret
These guys are going to have letdown games. We all have them. And this just happened to be against a shitty team that everyone and their mother was basically going in saying, there's not a chance we're going to lose this game. And they totally played flat down to their opponent, gave them a 10-spot lead. Agreed. May was just kind of going through the motions. That throw that he threw for a pick was just like a horribly like lofted ball right over the top.
00:03:05
Bret
One we've seen him make a lot, and he just did not deliver there.
Injury Concerns and Impact
00:03:10
Bret
But coming out of here, my bigger concern is the injury bug. And to me, offensive line, obviously a big concern with what we're doing.
00:03:21
Bret
We're going to have to figure out in the left-hand side. And then on top of it, I thought the loss of Milton Williams really showed its head on this game. You know, we let Chase Brown get over 100 yards.
00:03:29
Snooty
Yeah.
00:03:32
Bret
Like, so – That's an area where I look at and say, okay, players played flat. We have flat moments. I've seen them play at a better energy level and deliver and execute. I'm less concerned about that. I'm more concerned with what are we going to do over the final home stretch with these injuries to ensure we lock up the one seat.
00:03:52
Bret
That's my bigger concern coming out of this past week.
00:03:55
Savage Boston
Well, I saw – so the Chase Brown thing, to touch on D-line first, mil like Milton Williams' injury is definitely huge. Like that's – you know, we need him healthy. I think, you know, he'll be back, which is great, you know, and and him and Barmore.
00:04:06
Savage Boston
And you need Tonga healthy as well, right? If you don't have – I think that burned you on the goal line too. Like they might have put Tonga in at fullback, right? And then all sudden they're like fuck, we have our fullback.
00:04:14
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:04:17
Savage Boston
Like we don't have this package. And so that kind of bit him in the butt, which, you know, maybe they need to obviously coach up something different at the goal line. Again, we can talk about that. But yeah, like Chase Brown got us something like three yards before contact.
00:04:32
Savage Boston
It was like one of the highest and in the league, three yards before contact. And I don't know if you guys saw this watching the game, but the Bengals offensive line got a ton of push every time. Like they were downfield. I was like, it it was not competitive almost. And that was unfortunate. um So from the off offensive line perspective, obviously, these are the big injuries too, right? Like obviously Will Campbell. So I'm very happy that it's that it looks to be – obviously MCL, right? The reports are it's MCL. That looked real bad out the gate. And A, we couldn't see the actual angle of the injury. um
00:05:06
Savage Boston
Once we saw the back angle, it looked more MCL. But like you still like, if you do a side to side shot with with Will Campbell and Tucker Craft, okay, and their injuries, they look identical.
00:05:18
Savage Boston
Tucker Craft happened to tear his ACL. Will Campbell didn't. So sometimes you get lucky and you don't have that, that ligament, um, snap, right. And tear.
00:05:29
Savage Boston
And I think Campbell just dodged a bullet there. If he was really planted through that foot and didn't lift it up quickly, I think, you know, he, he rips the ACL. Um, but yeah, i was, you know, he's going to be out.
00:05:40
Savage Boston
Let's guess like he'll probably be IR'd. Uh, they haven't done it yet. but So at least you know four four games, right? And that would put him back for the playoffs. So he's got enough time to get back. They just have to secure a high seed and and and stay solid now.
00:05:56
Savage Boston
The people replacing, and Jared Wilson I think will be out like three, four weeks, maybe or two if you got really lucky with his high ankle sprain. But the difference is who's replacing him, right?
00:06:03
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:06:06
Savage Boston
So I think Ben Brown is going to give you something comparable to Jared Wilson, um only because, again, Wilson's numbers throughout the
Upcoming Giants Game Strategy
00:06:13
Savage Boston
season actually haven't been amazing. He had a good week last week, not as not as great the weeks prior to that. So I think Ben Brown can give you something. He didn't look great in the game when he came in, but, you know, he'll get coached up this week. okay with that. Vidarian Lowe is an okay pass blocker.
00:06:30
Savage Boston
He is an okay pass blocker. He should do enough to help Drake. Is he as good as Will Campbell? No, he's not. He's not as athletic, not as good. Vidarian Lowe is also an an atrocious run blocker.
00:06:42
Savage Boston
So, atrocious. So, on a team that already has a huge amount of problems running the football, yeah, it's a massive concern um having backups in there and And yeah, I don't know how they're going to look running the ball. So I'll throw it out back to you guys. Like, what are they going to do here? How do you balance the attack out? You can't throw every play. So how do you balance it out?
00:07:06
Snooty
I think they're going to be better simply by virtue of not coming into a game cold, right, and having a week of reps with you know with each other, right?
00:07:08
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:07:14
Snooty
I mean, that's the ah that's the other piece of this is Brown page played center last year. So, yeah, he technically played on a line with Bedarian Lowe last year, but they didn't play next to each other, right? So I think Lowe's going to be better than he was last year. i've heard a lot of Bedard was talking about this today about how, like,
00:07:32
Snooty
Look, like last year they just basically didn't get coached, I think was the phrase they used. Like last year was just so abysmal that like nobody looked good. And they put him on an island a ton and he's not ready for that.
00:07:40
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:07:43
Snooty
They put Campbell on an island more, but he's obviously, he's a higher ceiling player, right? Like he's more capable of handling that. I think you're going to have to, this week especially, the Giants are pretty bad against the run. So I think they're going to try to get real intricate, try to get the run game going. um Kind of scheme up some stuff that's a little bit different.
00:08:03
Snooty
You get the run game going, that'll get the play action going, that'll get May going, and that should settle everybody down. That's how you that's the fastest way to slow down a pass rush is with an effective run game. um And maybe perhaps some more screens and stuff this week.
00:08:16
Snooty
I don't know. But that's how I would slow down the pass rush because the Giants have a legit pass rush. And you're going to be looking at, you know, and you have the bye, but it's still the next three, four games, it's a pretty decent pass you're going be playing.
00:08:23
Savage Boston
Thank you.
00:08:27
Snooty
So I think that's the formula they're going to use going forward.
00:08:30
Bret
Yeah, I think this is going to be something where Josh is going to be able to schematically help give those guys a break. So i i think, yeah, we're going to have to rush the ball against them. We have to stay balanced. And I mean, they're one of the worst rush defenses in the league. So.
00:08:48
Bret
We got to keep pushing that and make sure we can control it. Schematically, like I said, I think Josh is going to help out a little bit there. we We also know, i know you talked about Verdary and Lowe from a pass block, run block, but he's probably good for three freaking flags in the game because he's so bad at the false starts and everything.
00:09:06
Bret
So that that could be killer because he had some moments last year where it was just like,
00:09:07
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:09:13
Bret
Pain in the ass when we had a drive going and it just it kills drives when you have those flags at inopportune times. So we'll see. I'm expecting this games is going to have to be a big like digs game getting quick outs. I i liked.
00:09:28
Bret
You know, what we saw from Henderson this last game in the Bengals, I think he continues to show. And they utilized him more than Ramondre. So hopefully they can find ways to get Stevenson out in space, even on like some nice screen passes or, you know, they flexed him out into the flat. So let's try to be creative to get that guy ball in space, get quick releases for May. So he's not throwing these deep, long passes unless they have good set up.
00:09:56
Bret
We'll see. I'm not overly concerned for the Giants. I mean, we're banged up, but we do get an extra day to prepare Monday night game. It's hard not to get hyped up for Monday night game.
00:10:09
Bret
I think they'll be good. And, you know, they know they're coming off of that going into a bye, which is going to give them time to rest.
Playoff Prospects and Defensive Struggles
00:10:17
Savage Boston
Yeah. I mean, i don't know. You know, so we have the Giants on Monday night, right? And is Jackson Dart playing? I actually haven't heard.
00:10:25
Snooty
Yes.
00:10:26
Savage Boston
Is he going to go?
00:10:26
Snooty
Yes. Yeah.
00:10:27
Savage Boston
So Dart, I mean, to be honest, maybe that's good for the Patriots because James Wilson has been playing actually really good football. um And so i don't know if it's good or bad, but Jackson Dart's a wild card. Like he's a pretty athletic kid.
00:10:40
Savage Boston
He can make some plays for you. But, you know, he does lose a lot of games too. It's kind of like at what happened with Drake last year. Like he was showing out a lot, and but they were still losing. So God knows what's going go down. I mean, we reached that part of the season where it's like you got injuries.
00:10:57
Savage Boston
The Patriots are still just keep winning. They won nine games in a row, which is amazing. It's crazy. But like, I don't know what to tell you. Like I'm feeling like I'm losing like, I don't know. i feel like every game is like 23 to 21 or something. Like it's starting to feel like we're in like hodgepodge season. It's all getting jammed together. So I don't know what what it's going to look like Jackson Dart against a variable defense. I just know like I'm concerned.
00:11:23
Savage Boston
I'm concerned about the blocking and the offensive line. I'm concerned about their ability to get to the passer, to affect the passer. I feel like there's no – I don't see a lot of pass rush.
00:11:33
Bret
I mean, we still we still play lakely we play way too much zone. That's always been a problem with us. Like, it's just – I don't know why we can't play a little bit more, man.
00:11:44
Bret
And you saw it. Like, Flacco was picking on Davis in the zone and trying to find him and going after him. Now, I mean, I called him out during the game. Next you know, Davis has, like, two really good blocks, good tips on him.
00:11:58
Savage Boston
you a really good final drive really good
00:12:00
Bret
Yeah, so you know he was able to come through when we needed him most, but it frustrates the fuck out of me when we go into the zone point of our game, and it's just we got picked apart, and they just are linebackers. they They can't drop back into coverage. It's never going to happen, and we just they find the gaps. They sit in the zone, and we give up way too many yards. Yeah.
00:12:24
Bret
That's a problem, and on top of it, we don't get after the quarterback when we rush for all that consistently. So, I don't know. Defense, to me, is still the biggest concern, which is kind of crazy because going into the year, we did not think the defense would be as problematic.
00:12:39
Bret
But I think, again, Milton Williams going down, and then just their – inconsistencies on defense make it so that i think giants are going to still make this a game. You know, I don't think this is going to be as much of a blowout because they get streaky and who the hell knows what could happen. um i don't have a ton of faith in our defense.
00:13:00
Snooty
I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head. The reason they don't play more man coverage is because they don't have the horses for it. They have, you know, two corners who can do it, but and that's if you trust Davis. But outside of that, like, their linebacker core is very, very suspect.
00:13:16
Snooty
Like, it's not very good. He's...
00:13:17
Savage Boston
What do you see from Ellis out there? Because I just, I haven't watched the whole thing, but I saw one clip of him getting absolutely washed out on a Chase Brown run. And like, he was the guy that had to be in the hole making the play.
00:13:27
Snooty
he's It's a different kind of linebacker than when Belichick was here.
00:13:29
Savage Boston
Got washed out.
00:13:32
Snooty
Belichick liked the Dante Hightower type, like the big, you know thumping linebacker.
00:13:34
Savage Boston
Big. Yeah.
00:13:38
Snooty
guys who could play you know um Who's the linebacker from Purdue? Who's the captain? Bentley. right like he's He wasn't as big, but he played big. like that's like's He played that way.
00:13:47
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:13:49
Snooty
They don't have guys like that anymore. It's not who they want. They want Christian Ellis. They want Gibbons. They want Spillane. Guys who are a little bit smaller but can move a little bit better and you know quite honestly fit better against traditional or excuse me modern NFL offenses right now.
00:14:05
Snooty
But the give to that is you know if you don't have a strong D-line up front eating up blocks, like yeah know You're going to get washed a little bit, like sometimes. so
00:14:15
Savage Boston
Obviously, it wasn't working, clearly, in this game. I mean, the Bengals can run the football. That's, like, one of the things. Actually, the Bengals' offense has been mostly okay in a lot of these games. They have put up a ton of points just when you have a historically terrible defense and the coaching's been bad.
00:14:29
Snooty
Yeah.
00:14:29
Savage Boston
That's how they've been losing.
00:14:31
Snooty
Well, they're...
00:14:31
Savage Boston
They're better, I guess, than the record shows, but the defense is horrible.
00:14:35
Snooty
it's Yeah, it's kind of bizarro like how the schedule has been for the Patriots, because like the Patriots have played very, very bad teams, but they've played pretty decent defenses, and now they play like ah like a horrible defense, but the team itself overall isn't horrible.
00:14:43
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:14:46
Savage Boston
yeah
00:14:53
Savage Boston
yeah yeah i mean they obviously have a ton of but i didn't love how i didn't love how when higgins went out with a concussion and jamar chase is out and it's flacco in there with like a bent finger and it's like they're still getting getting junk plays and driving down the field i'm like all right like What are we doing? I mean, can we get more pressure? Should we draw it up? Like, how do we, can you scheme it up a little? Can you get a blitz? Can you, you know, not, it doesn't have to be a zero blitz, but like, you know, get get some tight coverage man and and rush and blitz a couple, you know what I mean Like, you gotta to like
Trade Deadline and Team Strategy
00:15:27
Savage Boston
dial it up. And it felt like, I guess they didn't dial it up much except for in like,
00:15:31
Savage Boston
the final drive was then they started blitzing like crazy. And technically it didn't actually work that well. It worked well the last two plays, but like he, they still Flacco is fine in it. So don't know.
00:15:41
Snooty
Yeah. Mm-hmm.
00:15:41
Savage Boston
feel like we lost, we lost our horses quote unquote on the D line and the linebackers never necessarily had them. And think Splane's had an outstanding season. I, you know, he started slow, but he's been outstanding.
00:15:53
Savage Boston
Other than Splane, I mean, he has no, you know, Gibbons has been okay running downhill. And, and I think, I don't know. I'm not not in love with that core. And I think that secondary should be good. But like without Millie Williams and Harold Landry is probably banged up. He's not giving me a ton right now.
00:16:10
Savage Boston
i don't know. I think there's some genuine reason for concern. For real.
00:16:16
Bret
It would have been nice if we got an edge at the trade deadline.
00:16:19
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:16:19
Bret
That would have been real nice. But Snooty said there was no one out there.
00:16:22
Savage Boston
Yes, it would have.
00:16:24
Bret
No one out there worth a six-round pick. Wasn't going to happen.
00:16:28
Savage Boston
Just... just need I mean, like Jalen Phillips, obviously, like they weren't going to give that kind of capital up for a rental player, but man, he would have been nice on this roster. And I know like they were asking for a second from the Patriots.
00:16:39
Snooty
Yeah, it was a higher pick that they wanted from the Patriots. um
00:16:43
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:16:44
Snooty
My issue isn't that you couldn't get a an edge player. My issue is that like what edge player are you going to get that's worth anything?
00:16:54
Bret
I mean, there was probably players out there.
00:16:54
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:16:57
Bret
Again, yeah you're assuming that there was no one out there just like I'm assuming that there were. The reality is there's there's going to be more players available than were actually traded.
00:17:09
Bret
They just had to come to terms. And to me, it didn't seem like the Patriots are all that aggressive at the trade deadline. Otherwise, I think they would have made a move and they didn't make a move. So,
00:17:20
Savage Boston
I mean, they been were they were in contact with all... I mean, like it's not like they they contacted all the teams. They've been contact with, hey, who are you shopping? and you want to get rid of? They're calling all these teams. Ellie Wolfe's on the phone with the other GMs.
00:17:32
Savage Boston
and then team And again, the problem is, as we've said, the the bottom three teams all didn't want to trade with the Patriots. The Titans, the Jets, and and the the Dolphins were all the ones offloading.
00:17:41
Snooty
Mm-hmm.
00:17:46
Savage Boston
None of them wanted to make trades with the Patriots. So then you've got to go to the next tier and... and maybe give up more guys, the trade deadline in football, like you said, it's not like baseball.
00:17:56
Savage Boston
I know we told the, talked about this with like Hogdale, right. And Hogdale was like the best GMs make it like baseball. And I agree like Howie Roseman, he was aggressive. He made a trade good, but like, it's not always that way.
00:18:09
Savage Boston
It's not, that's not always how it goes in football, you know?
00:18:14
Snooty
Yep. It's just, it's, it's also hard to integrate players into like a scheme and maximize the return on it. Like, it's like, you can still do that, but that's more like bit players that can do it, who get like specific passages, uh, packages.
00:18:28
Snooty
Like you see, like a key mayors in the past, right? Like he got specific packages at linebacker and like, He played and he played well.
00:18:31
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:18:36
Snooty
Right. And he was a contributor on a much deeper team. But like, you know, people were clamoring for a line depth. And we were talking about this before. But like if Trevor Penning is the caliber of offensive lineman who's going to move for a sixth round pick.
00:18:48
Snooty
No, thank you. I'd rather roll with the Darian low, an actual player who can stick a tackle instead of Penning, who is a failed tackle who had to move to guard. I'd rather stick with Ben Brown, who's a better player, that we weren't trading for a fucking sixth round pick. Or even a fifth round pick we wouldn't trade him for, because we needed the depth.
00:19:06
Snooty
it's the The spots we needed, trade like depth, like O-line depth, it's just not available.
00:19:08
Savage Boston
No,
00:19:10
Snooty
People don't trade O-linemen who are worth anything.
00:19:13
Savage Boston
I get The team is going to go as far as Drake May and Josh McDaniels take
Offensive Scheme Critique
00:19:18
Savage Boston
him.
00:19:18
Snooty
that That's the reality of the team this year.
00:19:18
Savage Boston
You know what mean? Like, that's it. If May comes out like like he did in the first quarter, the team is porked.
00:19:27
Snooty
Yes.
00:19:27
Savage Boston
as Felger might say. like you need Drake has to play at like you all pro a top five QB level, which he is. He's a top five QB right now. If he plays at that level, they they're winning a lot of games, and they have been.
00:19:40
Savage Boston
If he comes out like he did in this game and they can't figure out how to run the football, I mean, they have to be under center. You've got to be under center, and you've got to figure out how to run the football. None of this, the RPO call in the goal line, you know, could have worked.
00:19:55
Savage Boston
Let's talk about the goal line situation, okay? When they had basically what felt like six, what, six plays from like the one or five plays from the one and they can't find a way to get in.
00:20:03
Snooty
Yeah.
00:20:03
Bret
you know, five,
00:20:05
Savage Boston
Like I love the the booty Edelman route. Like he cuts in, cuts out. Like I love that route. He obviously got held. They get a penalty. But like that would have been a touchdown. Love that play.
00:20:17
Savage Boston
That, you know, classic. Like and that RPO that they decided to hand off to Ramondre and they get stuffed. obviously hate the decision to hand it off.
00:20:27
Savage Boston
If he pulls that back, Hunter Henry's wide open and he, and he takes it in. But like, what do they have to do? Snoo, do you tell me what do they have to do in the goal line to get in the end zone?
00:20:36
Snooty
I mean, part of it's personnel. The fact that you we openly lament the missing ah the defensive tackle moonlighting as a fullback is like a pretty pretty sad indication of where your goal line is.
00:20:45
Savage Boston
um really
00:20:46
Snooty
Oh, you know what? our de Our nose tackle got hurt, so we can we have no goal line offense anymore. Okay, you know, that's a fucking problem. Part of it, like you said, was May. Like, you know, he he misread the play there, and, you know, he has to play better, and obviously you can coach that, and you can hope that that's better in the future, but The other part of it is, and this is kind of why I have concerns about the ceiling of the team is they just can't fucking run the ball with any consistency. And when you know that, like the goal line is just all about like, you know, it's coming here. i know it's coming here.
00:21:20
Snooty
Fuck you. I'm going to move you the, you know, six feet to be able to, I'm going to open a bowl, just get enough movement for my guy to hammer it through. um And they just can't do that. They can't even do it when they don't know it's really running. They're they're really running the ball, much less on the goal line. I also would like to see ah terre Terrell Jennings, right? I'd like to see him get some goal line carries.
00:21:40
Snooty
I feel like he runs with a better combination of speed and power than either of Henderson or Stevenson.
00:21:47
Savage Boston
I would just go straight Henderson, to be honest, on the goal.
00:21:47
Snooty
Because, but like, he's not, I mean, I hear you, but like, i in terms of like, He's not as big as Jennings, and Jennings is faster than Stevenson.
00:21:58
Snooty
So, like, just on the goal line. I'm not saying, like, during the game. But, like, it I don't know.
00:22:01
Bret
Do you say Jennings is faster than Stevenson?
00:22:02
Snooty
I mean.
00:22:05
Snooty
Yeah, he might be.
00:22:05
Bret
No, he's not. No way.
00:22:07
Snooty
He might be, dude.
00:22:08
Bret
I don't believe that at all.
00:22:09
Snooty
He plays faster.
00:22:11
Bret
Well, plays faster. There's a line for you.
00:22:13
Snooty
Well, that's that's what matters.
00:22:15
Bret
All right, let's see what his Jennings game speed is while you go ahead and tell me about his his elite speed.
00:22:19
Savage Boston
Oh, Madre obviously looked terrible. And he just can't...
00:22:23
Snooty
He looks timid and slow getting to the hole at the moment. He's not a good, he's never been a good goal linebacker. He just hasn't. And Henderson, you know, like, again, he's fast and, you know, there's a certain element of power that comes with that, but he's not a huge dude.
00:22:39
Snooty
Like he's, I don't look at him and go, that's a goal linebacker.
00:22:39
Savage Boston
No.
00:22:42
Snooty
You know, like I'd like this.
00:22:44
Savage Boston
I'd just rather get him the carries. Like, I don't know.
00:22:46
Snooty
No, for sure.
00:22:46
Savage Boston
I would just rather... give more opportunity. Like he's at least he's a threat. Do you know what mean? Like, like there's ah a threat there with Henderson. You give him a little, you know, he can take it. And he obviously has done that. And we are with five touchdowns and two games he had, like, I love that. I love the threat of Henderson to, to break one. You know, versus like, I don't know. Andre obviously he's banged up and got the turf toe and he's not running the ball. Well, he six carries for five yards. I mean, for anybody you're like, okay.
00:23:18
Savage Boston
But a lot of that is on the line too. He's getting no yards before getting hit. So yeah, they, they, you're not going to fix it right now. I don't know how do they, other than changing the scheme or having better play calls or like, I don't know how they fix the run game, but you can't run it for one to two yards. Every first down, you can't just be like like, you need to get a couple of times where get five.
00:23:43
Savage Boston
You can't always be in third and 10 every series.
00:23:47
Snooty
You can't.
00:23:48
Savage Boston
You're just putting so much on Drake every single fucking game.
00:23:48
Bret
Well,
00:23:52
Bret
Well, to me, from a goal line standpoint, ah it's I would rather put the ball in Drake's hand. I trust Henry and Diggs better to get open. I trust Booty in those situations.
00:24:04
Bret
So to me, like I just don't like the goal line package. I would scrap it schematically. like We just get tight, and we you're right. We can't run the ball when we have to run the ball. Henderson is faster than anyone else on the team like Jennings or Ramondre from a running back perspective.
00:24:21
Bret
but he's not big and powerful. So you need a big, powerful guy. But ah when you're in that goal line position, it's about having the O-line get that push.
00:24:26
Savage Boston
Bye.
00:24:31
Bret
And we don't get the push. I mean, you look at when we did the QB sneak, Drake got no push. There was no push on that play. By the way, Snooty, Terrell Jennings, 4.66 on the 40-yard.
00:24:40
Snooty
Yes.
00:24:43
Snooty
Yes. 4-6-4.
00:24:43
Bret
Trevion Henderson, what's that?
00:24:45
Snooty
No, no, no, no. I never said Henderson. Stevenson. Not Henderson.
00:24:50
Bret
Oh, okay. I thought you were saying faster than Henderson, and I was like, you are crazy talking.
00:24:53
Snooty
No, God, knows no. No, no, no, no, no. If I said that, then I misspoke. It was Stevenson. It's not Henderson. And they have like the same 40 time. They're like the same running back.
00:25:02
Bret
All right. All right. Well, either way, to me, I think we got to change the scheme up a little bit. And they just got to trust Drake in that spot. Like, I just ah trust Drake. he Put the your best player on offense. Give him the ball. Let him make a decision and like let it go out there and execute.
00:25:22
Bret
We're not going to be able to run the ball. We've never been able to run the ball consistently. We only just show the threat of a run. And every now and then we get like a breakout 60 yard run by Henderson. So our stats look good. But like our actual run average is not great.
League Parity and Team Comparisons
00:25:38
Bret
Hasn't been great all year.
00:25:41
Savage Boston
Yeah, they're going to have to figure out. I mean, we talked about it. i think I feel like for weeks, we're like yeah other than Henderson breaking a bunch of bunch of runs there's no they're getting three yards of carry It's just not it's not good enough. I mean, I think, though, we're in the same position as a lot of teams right now. And this is why, to to pivot it somewhat to the more positive side, this is why everyone's in the same boat where they're all trying to figure out, like, okay, what do we need to do to win games? How do we get on a roll? How do we make the team? Like, everyone's got injuries. Like, imagine you could be the Chiefs. I mean, they're 6-5.
00:26:13
Savage Boston
six and five Being like, okay, of shit. Like, we're trying to – they're trying to make all these Super Bowls and stuff. and they And they could be really dangerous in the postseason. But, like, they're still 6-5. They still could still not make it know, they probably will.
00:26:25
Bret
They're the 10th seed right now.
00:26:25
Snooty
They're going to be very dangerous.
00:26:27
Bret
They're the 10th seed right now.
00:26:28
Savage Boston
What's that?
00:26:30
Savage Boston
Yeah, I mean, well, that's what I mean. So, like, you don't know. And the Chargers missing both tackles. You know, like, there's two starting all-pro freaking – and you imagine being out two all-pros. with Slater and all like that's ridiculous. That's so damaging to your team. So the injury bug hasn't been bad to us, except for like now, just now.
00:26:50
Savage Boston
But like you could be Baltimore.
00:26:50
Snooty
Yeah.
00:26:52
Savage Boston
I mean, look at Baltimore. Everyone's like, Oh, they're so they're winning five in a row. They're six and five. I get it. They're not that great. They haven't played great. Their defense isn't good. Lamar has been not good.
00:27:04
Savage Boston
He's had a couple very subpar games. He had like like a hundred yards pass in one game. Like he's been not good. So there's a ton of parity. Again, this is good for football. It's good for the league. The ratings are probably through the roof because everyone thinks they can win. And I think that's that's ultimately great.
00:27:22
Savage Boston
It's a great thing. I just wish this roster had just a tiny bit more talent to support what I feel like is Drake playing his butt off this season. And just wish they had just a little more To get them there. You know, I think the offense could be good enough, but now you got the offensive line and running the ball problems. So anyway, I mean, do you guys agree? Like his parody, how good is parody for this league?
00:27:48
Snooty
I mean, for the league, they love it, right? Like any team is technically in it every year. That's what they, that's what it's designed for. But it sucks when you think your team is going to be, you know, really good and and do you have to deal with a a slog every week, right? But it's like, it's by design. That's what they want. They want you to be, you know, they want you to be in this type of position.
00:28:09
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:28:10
Bret
Well, obviously that's the the goal, right? To have that happen. I will also say there's a lot of sloppy play. bysh ah It's one of those areas where we obviously are highly critical of when the Pats look bad, but like what team other than probably the Rams, look like they're elite and playing at a high caliber level, right? I mean, you look at the Eagles, they scored 21 freaking points and then they don't score again and lose 24 to 21. Like what was that? Right. And you sit there and just go to yourself, like, how is this possible for like these teams that should be going all out? I mean, the Lions just lost to the Giants.
00:28:53
Bret
They don't know what they're doing on offense. They haven't been able to figure out what they're doing on offense all year. So I do look at it and say, yeah, there's parody. But part of that parody is just like there's a lot of sloppy, sloppy play. And I don't know what the reasoning is behind that.
00:29:09
Bret
I know like some people have talked a lot about like the quarterback play and where the quarter like the state of the quarterback play is now versus years past. And do they really have those like top elite dogs in the league and what those look like?
00:29:23
Bret
Compared to, again, like when we had ah Brady, obviously, but even like some of the guys around him, like when you had Manning, you had Breeze, you had Rogers, like these guys are all time Hall Famer, like elite level quarterbacks.
00:29:38
Bret
And yeah, I mean, right now Stafford's playing at elite all time level. But no one else in the league is like going crazy. Josh Allen has had so many up and down games, so many up and down games.
00:29:53
Bret
I mean, he can go out there, win games. He can also go out there and throw three freaking picks. Like he's just so erratic.
00:29:57
Savage Boston
I mean, I'll say this. I mean, just looking at the the stats from this season for quarterbacks, like, is it, it's not down compared to 20 years ago, right? Like if you looked at Brady, like 2004, if we go to the 2004 season, which i I'm going to look up in a second, but like I'm looking at this season, like you do have some guys playing good ball.
00:30:19
Savage Boston
at a high level with good ratings. It just doesn't feel the same because maybe we're not young as young or maybe, you know, i don't know, maybe because it was crazy in like 2021, I think was the peak of passer rating. Like guys, like people were throwing 5,000 yards. Again, I think Cooper cup did a segment on this where they talk about like with the meta shifts in defense over the last like four years, but defenses, as we said, defenses have figured out rush for try to generate pressure. play a lot of two two man cover too deep, lot of zone, keep them in front of you. So always keep him in front.
00:30:55
Savage Boston
No big plays. Keep them in front. No big plays. If you hold them to three points, victory. Right? Every time you hold them three points, that's a win. Don't give up seven. Don't give up explosive plays. So that Chiefs explosive offense went away. Even the 2021 Brady Bucks offense. Brady went crazy that year.
00:31:10
Savage Boston
Crazy. He could have been MVP. He went crazy and won the Super Bowl. His numbers were off the charts. And then they've made some philosophical change where, again I'm sure someone smarter than me has made a video on, again, the changes they made. Again, I think Cooper Cupp has done something about that. But right now, without Matthew Stafford playing at what feels like a pretty goofy level, like an extremely goofy good level, um you know, Drake May is the MVP.
00:31:38
Savage Boston
Like, is the MVP. And he could still have – if Stafford slows down and Drake picks it up and the Patriots end up fourteen and three Drake could win the MVP still. Like it's not out of the race if people care about that, but like he's third in the league in passer rating at 110. Technically Lamar is still ahead of him at 111, despite having a couple of terrible games. Stafford's at 113 on the season, which is very high.
00:32:02
Savage Boston
Darnold has had an outstanding season. He's at 106. Goff is still good. Like there are guys playing at a high level, but like Drake to me is the absolute obvious MVP. I think he still is the MVP.
00:32:13
Savage Boston
I think he's elevating his team more than Stafford's been incredible. It just has so much around him. I mean, like all pros, all world offensive coaching, not to, you know, not trying to crap on McDaniels, but like, you know, there's just a lot there supporting Stafford to have a great season.
00:32:30
Savage Boston
So, so yeah, I mean, I don't know.
00:32:32
Snooty
I
00:32:34
Savage Boston
it's Snooty, do you have any insight on how the game has changed from a defensive perspective?
00:32:37
Snooty
was going to say, like, I mean, if you think, like, by the sheer definition of who's the most valuable to their team, yeah, May would be more valuable than
Evolution of Quarterback Play
00:32:46
Snooty
Stafford. But, like, Stafford's going to win Unless he just falls off a cliff.
00:32:49
Savage Boston
Right now. Yeah.
00:32:50
Snooty
Yeah, unless he falls off a cliff, he's going to win.
00:32:50
Savage Boston
Right now. Yeah. Yeah.
00:32:52
Snooty
I mean, I think you... you it ah To me, it it goes back to after the you know the change the rules, you know when the Patriots beat the shit out of the Colts all those years. They changed the rules.
00:33:03
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:33:03
Snooty
um It kind of goes back to the 07 Patriots. kind of reinforced like the notion that like what the Giants did, which is if you can get pressure with four, you know like only rushing four and get pressure and drop everybody else, that's the way to limit like an explosive type of offense.
00:33:18
Snooty
and you know Over the years, you've seen the game. It was kind of like the... Kind of like what we were talking about before, like Belichick likes those like big linebackers. Like a lot of teams got away from, you know, building up the huge offensive line with the run game. Like that's that's a bygone era.
00:33:35
Snooty
Like I don't think that's ever coming back, right? Like it's – so as the defenses start to shift, they start to get smaller, they start to get faster, they start to get more hybrid guys. You get more like safety linebacker types and more like, you corner safety types who can like – who can actually run, who can move, who can – you know, disrupt the passing game, that type of thing. um But yeah, it got silly there for a while.
00:33:55
Snooty
It looked like the big 12 were like, you get a stop or two and you know, you're in good shape, which is just like, what the fuck, man.
00:34:01
Savage Boston
Yeah, no, it got goofy. But like back in 2004 when defenses are better, right? I'm looking at passer rating. You had one guy who was over the top of the best in MVP, and that is Peyton Manning.
00:34:12
Savage Boston
In 2004, he had 49 touchdowns and 10 picks, which was the record at that time.
00:34:12
Bret
Thank you.
00:34:18
Savage Boston
Brady that year finished the whole season with 92 passer rating. Drake Mays' passer rating is 110 this year. okay This is championship Super Bowl year Tom Brady, 2004.
00:34:29
Savage Boston
okay He had 28 touchdowns and 14 picks. But modern standards, not a great season. okay Back then, he was 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8. He was 9th in passer rating, which is obviously not terrible, but that wasn't when Brady was at his statistical best. We can talk about all that stuff later, 2007 onwards, basically. um But yeah, like the the general passer ratings were lower. I mean, I think just if you go... by average, oh, let me see, passer rating by season.
00:35:03
Savage Boston
me look this up quick.
00:35:03
Bret
Well, the reality, though, is, again, a defenses, yeah, they've changed.
00:35:04
Savage Boston
so asked
00:35:07
Snooty
Different game. Yeah.
00:35:08
Bret
But back then, the rules also were a lot different, right? Defense was allowed to play a lot more aggressive. The game is dramatically different. So we got really out of whack in that kind of, yeah, late, like to ridiculous what going on the league.
00:35:28
Bret
was just stupid ridiculous what was going on in the league and since then i think defensive have evolved but when it comes to comparing like this generation to early 2000s or even like the 90s it's just the physicality is night and day night and day and guys were like getting banged up you talk injuries like just it was ridiculous so that that's obviously a significant difference from that standpoint but yeah i mean look at
00:35:56
Savage Boston
Well, so hold hold on. Let me, let me, I have it here. Let me read it really quick. So just to compare. So these are passing league averages per, per team. You know, this is basically per season. So the season average for pass rating. So actually we're still in 2025 at almost all time high.
00:36:14
Savage Boston
Okay. 2020 was the all time high with an average of 93.6 pass rating. That's all time high. This season's 90 of that's combined.
00:36:21
Bret
For all teams.
00:36:23
Savage Boston
to Everybody that's just like league average. 93. point six
00:36:27
Bret
Wow.
00:36:27
Savage Boston
Which is high.
00:36:28
Bret
ah That's so bad.
00:36:28
Savage Boston
i mean, you know, and again, like this season, it's 92.1. That's still high. Last season was 92.3. And there's a couple of seasons at 89. You got to go to see a significant difference. You got to go before basically 2015.
00:36:44
Savage Boston
where it starts dropping in the low eighties in 2003, when Brady won it again in that year, the league average was only 78.
00:36:45
Bret
Yep.
00:36:51
Savage Boston
So we got a 14 point difference in 22 years. That's rule changes, you know, like strategies, you have but mostly rule changes.
00:37:00
Bret
Those rule changes.
00:37:01
Savage Boston
um You know, isn't that insane though?
00:37:02
Bret
That's what that is.
00:37:03
Savage Boston
Like how big of a difference that can make and like the league average.
00:37:03
Snooty
Wait, 1979?
00:37:06
Savage Boston
Cause then again, you're going back to the early, let's say 1979, the league average is 70. the league average is seventy You know what I mean? like It starts to get way – so, like, clearly the league – yeah.
00:37:15
Snooty
Dude.
00:37:15
Bret
Yep.
00:37:17
Snooty
ninety seventy nine
00:37:19
Savage Boston
so And now it's a 92. So, again, like, the league obviously has wanted more passing and more explosive plays for a long time because they realize that's really exciting.
00:37:30
Savage Boston
But, like, for it to drop so significantly – again, if you look at this, dude, in 1971, the league average was for passor rate
00:37:39
Snooty
Dude, it's literally a completely different... The fucking head slap was probably still legal back then.
00:37:42
Savage Boston
just, they're running the fucking mush, dude.
00:37:43
Snooty
Completely different.
00:37:45
Savage Boston
They're running, they're they're like running rugby scrums down the field, you know what I mean like
00:37:48
Snooty
Well, dude, you know, you couldn't eat like you couldn't if you grabbed someone like, you know, how like they teach you to grab the chest plate, like hands inside and they don't call holding.
00:37:48
Bret
Thank
00:37:56
Savage Boston
mean?
00:37:56
Snooty
Like back then, if you ever seen it, why those guys had those like forearm pads, because that's how they fucking block.
00:38:01
Savage Boston
They're just like, ah, just flopping people.
00:38:01
Snooty
They basically just forearm shivered everyone to like the chin and went like, he and just like fucking beat the shit out of people.
00:38:07
Savage Boston
mean, but think of the difference in how the game was, know?
00:38:08
Snooty
It's a completely different game. It's like you can't look at – that's why when people – oh, look at Mahomes' first six years versus Brady's. It's like, dude, it's literally two completely different games.
00:38:18
Snooty
You can't compare that.
00:38:18
Bret
Yeah.
00:38:18
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:38:18
Bret
Oh, yeah. that That drives me crazy from an era standpoint.
00:38:20
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:38:22
Bret
I look at it and say, look what Brady was doing when he was 40 freaking three compared to like what Mahomes was doing. The thing that I always think from a critique standpoint for Mahomes versus Brady is Mahomes does not look like he takes care of himself physically to what he needs to do.
00:38:29
Snooty
Yeah.
00:38:38
Bret
And so I don't think from a longevity standpoint, he's really going to be able to hold up like Brady did ah to be able to do the numbers that Brady did. And then, know, I don't think Reed's going to be there long-term. So I'm not really like that concerned about the Mahomes Chiefs error. I know there was a period of time where people were like, oh look at this, you know, they're they're on pace to out, you know, beat us and go through it. And I'm like, I was never that concerned because, ah again, i always looked at it and said,
00:39:08
Bret
It is damn hard to do it long on long-term as an organization. you You have to draft consistently well forever. And when I looked at my homes, I'm like, he didn't really take care of himself all that well. So I just don't see that being the case.
00:39:23
Bret
And then Reed, I just, when Belichick was doing in the early 2000s, like the guy went on for another 20 years. I don't see Reed doing it that long with the Chiefs.
00:39:34
Bret
So I'm done.
00:39:35
Savage Boston
So, you know, yeah, I don't know.
00:39:35
Bret
I don't think the Chiefs are threat.
00:39:37
Savage Boston
I don't know how long the Chiefs go.
00:39:37
Snooty
i think
00:39:38
Savage Boston
I don't know. But you can, it's hard to predict that because he's still kind of young. But like, no, I don't know if Pat's going to take care of his body like that. He's still a freak athlete.
00:39:45
Snooty
yeah I'm not even sure it's like a take care of himself thing, although I agree. um I think it's like a, it's a league wide question where like you're seeing more and more quarterbacks who need to be mobile and who are taking advantage of that. And just inherently they're taking more hits, right? Cause they're, they're running, they're taxing their bodies more like even Mahomes, like he's not necessarily a runner per se, but like he scrambles he's a lot more like Steve Young was than, than, you know, something else where like someone who actually tries to run. So I wonder if you're going to see, despite the rule changes, if there's going to be, you're not going to see the same quarterbacks play until they're
00:40:22
Snooty
you know, 40-plus, like you're seeing with some of the older guys, like the Mannings and the Rodgers and the Breeze and the Bradys, like simply because they don't play the game the same way, right? Like they rely more on their athleticism.
00:40:32
Snooty
They're going to have – well, put differently, they're going to have to learn to adapt and rely on their brain and their ability to process.
00:40:35
Savage Boston
They're not
00:40:38
Snooty
And i I think by virtue of that, less are going to reach that point simply because
Scoring Trends and Modern Game Dynamics
00:40:44
Snooty
they're not able to.
00:40:44
Savage Boston
So points per game, points per game per season has upticked in the last
00:40:47
Snooty
Points for
00:40:52
Savage Boston
10 years or so, as you would expect with the emphasis on explosive plays and passing, but not, not to some absurd level. Like this year it's averaging 23 points per game per team. That's the league average.
00:41:04
Savage Boston
And it's been about anywhere about around 22, basically for the last, the last 17 years or so. And then in the early two thousands, it was about 20 or 21. So like there's about a, like ah let's say a two to three point change, which is big numbers compared to like,
00:41:21
Savage Boston
when you're taking an average of everybody like that's league movement, but then you go back far enough in time and teams are averaging 22, 23 again in the late seventies running the football. So like the league has changed.
00:41:33
Savage Boston
It's changed how you score, what they, what they want to see. It's changed the rules, but ironically, it's not like they went from all the average was only 16 points a game and now it's 30. Like, yeah, it's like, it's a couple point difference.
00:41:45
Savage Boston
And I know maybe that makes a difference over the, over the, the life of it, but, I don't know. I just, I feel like we want some defense too. Like you need some high quality quarterback play and defense is now, like I said, it's, it's made it.
Drake May's MVP Potential
00:42:01
Savage Boston
I think they figured it out again and it does make it less fun. And this is why someone like Drake may is so exciting is cause or Josh Allen or Mahomes or sometimes Lamar cause they have out of the pocket, exciting plays, chunk plays, explosive plays. Like that's what the league wants and wants to see. If every single play is dip and dunk, and this is why Mahomes gets criticism now too because lot of Mahomes is is the ultimate yak guy right now. like He throws behind the line of scrimmage all the time.
00:42:28
Savage Boston
All the time, little dip and dunks. And so that offense has completely shifted where Reed is scheming it all up. So I don't know. there's there's There's a lot to how the league has shifted over the years. But I think, long story short, I do think Drake is playing at an MVP level.
00:42:43
Savage Boston
He's having a fantastic season. I would love for him to make a push for the award. Just think it'd be really cool. Doesn't do anything for winning necessarily, but I think it'd be cool for me and the fan base would like it something to talk about.
00:42:56
Savage Boston
But unless Stafford, like you said, has complete fall off like they will, they just have a lot of talent and that offense is just running so well right now that I don't see it happening.
00:43:06
Snooty
Yeah.
00:43:07
Savage Boston
So, all right, you just, I guess
Patriots vs. Giants Predictions
00:43:10
Savage Boston
we'll pivot. We got a way off track there. i don't know how that happened, but that's okay. So a podcast or four, I suppose.
00:43:14
Bret
history of the History of the League.
00:43:16
Savage Boston
just Yeah, let's just let's just chronicle the league. We'll do a league series.
00:43:21
Snooty
Come for a recap of the game.
00:43:21
Savage Boston
just Yeah, let's just reveal.
00:43:22
Snooty
Stay for the talk of the 1979 NFL scoring
00:43:29
Savage Boston
Let's go year by year and just talk about passer ratings. ah But I actually do want to see bre Brady's stats from 2020. This was his Bucs year. He was third in the league in passing yards. He had 40 touchdowns.
00:43:44
Savage Boston
12 picks. His rating was a one Oh two for the season, but like he was, they were just throwing for so many yards, man. That year is like, you know, was just some, uh, some wild stuff. He didn't, uh, didn't win any awards that year, but he had a good season. So, all right. What are we thinking? in Giants game. We might as well, this is full circlet. What are we thinking? in Um, Pat's win.
00:44:04
Savage Boston
Is this like a goofy, the Giants run defense apparently is absolutely the worst in football. Saw that today. Like that. They're literally horrible. Literally horrible. Like they can probably pass rush, but their run defense is pathetic.
00:44:17
Savage Boston
So don't know when you have the – what's the opposite of an immovable object versus – or unstoppable object versus immovable man or whatever? What's the opposite of that?
00:44:29
Savage Boston
No one has any good clips.
00:44:29
Snooty
The movable object meets the...
00:44:29
Bret
I don't
00:44:35
Savage Boston
Slow man.
00:44:35
Snooty
I don't know. Whatever. i don't know. Patriots 24... 17.
00:44:41
Snooty
seventeen
00:44:42
Savage Boston
Okay. Brett.
00:44:45
Bret
twenty eight twenty pats
00:44:48
Savage Boston
28, 20. I like Pat's 20.
00:44:52
Savage Boston
twenty Did I get 20? I'll give 24. I feel like it's just been a slog. 24, 20. I'll take 24, 20. I'll get another nail biter. little close Patriots, Patriots win. That'll be my prediction. So.
Conclusion and Future Content
00:45:06
Savage Boston
All right, guys, thanks for tuning in. Yeah, tune in next week for more History of the NFL Talk. i appreciate you guys tuning See you later. Peace.
00:45:15
Bret
Peace.