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EPISODE 57 - PATRIOTS TRADE DEADLINE
0 Plays2 seconds ago
Keion White and Kyle Dugger are gone. Who's coming in??
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Transcript
Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:00:00
Savage Boston
Alright guys, welcome back to the Savage Boston Podcast. I'm Scott with Savage Boston Sports. Here's my co-host as always, Brett from Savage Boston Sports. And we got great guest tonight from foxbo Foxborough, fellas.
00:00:13
Savage Boston
ah We got Pete Collins. Good dude. What's going on, Pete? How are you?
00:00:17
Peter Collins
What is happening? Thanks for having me on tonight. Appreciate it.
00:00:20
Savage Boston
Yeah, I appreciate it. Appreciate
Patriots Trade News and Impact
00:00:22
Savage Boston
you coming on. And obviously we got some, um ah yeah, some really, really recent news because it's, what, Tuesday, 1028, about 830 at night.
00:00:31
Savage Boston
Thought we'd be going in leading off with, you know, more of Drake May and bla blah, blah, blah. We can get to that. We can get to MVP talks. We can get to all that jazz. But obviously we got to start off with the big kind of big news, big as relative.
00:00:41
Bret
they kind of,
00:00:43
Savage Boston
But let's start off with like the Patriots just traded Keon White and Kyle Duggar, like three minutes ago, basically, um both for late round pick swaps, which is borderline cutting them.
00:00:57
Savage Boston
um You know, it's like borderline, like if they weren't going to do this, they would have been cut at some point, like at the in the offseason, whatever, right? So this is like almost the lowest, like like a 2026 six round for seventh round pick swap.
00:01:12
Savage Boston
um Anyway, and just just to lead off, I mean, A lot of directions to go on this. How I'll kind of lead it off is, is this like, are we coming down to like the end of the Elliott Wolf thing?
00:01:25
Savage Boston
Okay. And this is where I'm going to go with it first, because it feels like, you know, a lot of the old guard people, other than Marcus Jones, who just got an extension today, ah a lot of the old guard are getting, you know, have been cut off and all these contracts, especially Duggar's contract that like Elliott Wolf gave out.
00:01:42
Savage Boston
Looked horrible. And I'm very happy we got off the books. I'm actually surprised. i don't know how that works out. It's going to look on the Steelers end, but I'm surprised they're, they're going to take all that on.
00:01:53
Savage Boston
So um anyway, Pete, why don't you kind of give me your thoughts? how do you feel about the the trades tonight and and where are you kind of taking this?
Trade Implications and Team Depth Concerns
00:01:59
Peter Collins
ah They're liquidating. ah You're exactly right. These are essentially cutting them right for these late round swaps. then when you add in the fact the Polk trade, so they've traded around ah away three second rounders and you're right.
00:02:12
Peter Collins
Who was around when those guys were drafted? Elliot Wolf, Elliot Wolf feels like the next guy out out the door along with, with Duggar and white, in my opinion, but yeah, you've gotten back seventh round, seventh round or two, sixth rounds in a seventh round pick, essentially nothing.
00:02:27
Peter Collins
Right. And you're right. The contract was the big, factor for the Duggar. Keon White just never seemed to find a role on this defense at all. Both of them really didn't find a role. Duggar was put with the second team in the in the summer.
00:02:40
Peter Collins
When we were at training camp, he was out there with the second team and just never found his way back. That contract looks horrible. And Wolf is to blame for that.
00:02:49
Savage Boston
Yeah, terrible. well Brad, had it what do you think?
00:02:52
Bret
Well, I don't like it just for the simple fact we don't have depth. And we talked about it last pod. I think a lot of people would agree when it comes to our needs and what's realistic in the trade, it's going to be on the defensive end and defensive line, safety, linebacker, cornerback. You could name it, and we could definitely use a piece there.
00:03:13
Bret
So us moving on, I think Duggar probably the most annoys me.
00:03:13
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:03:18
Bret
We just had him. in real snaps couple games ago because of injury so this is where i start to lead it and say there's something else to come here right and i know shefter was on pretty recently and he was talking about how he expects that in high probability that the pats are going to make a move around before the trade deadline you then start moving these pieces around so i wonder what that next move is but That would be the only rationale I can think of. Yeah, I can i can hear the we're dumping more of Elliott Wolfe guys, and it obviously doesn't have a great track record from Elliott Wolfe, and
Potential Moves Before Trade Deadline
00:03:57
Bret
a lot of the guys that they've siphoned off have been his picks over the last few years and and what our team is to try and you know wipe it clean to get good guys in there. But ultimately I look at it and say there has to be another move coming because if there's not,
00:04:12
Bret
More concerning. I mean, we haven't even touched on what are they going to do about Jennings and the running back because essentially they have to make a decision there whether they permanently elevate him to from the practice squad or if he stays on the practice squad. They either have to sign him up to the 53.
00:04:28
Bret
or they don't. And so i look at it and say, what's next to come? What does it look like? I don't like the move just because you're taking away NFL caliber guys, especially a guy like Duggar that I think you could have utilized.
00:04:40
Bret
So not a fan of it, but I'll pull a real judgment once we get to the trade deadline.
00:04:40
Savage Boston
I mean
00:04:46
Savage Boston
mean, just to hit on the Duggar thing, saying like NFL guy, like I agree. Duggar, if you want that big box safety, that hybrid tweener type player, he's been an effective player, especially under like Bill Belichick's coaching. right He was really effective player.
00:05:00
Savage Boston
you know he got a little he got pretty banged up last last week, and like he just doesn't have the range, man. He just, he hasn't had it And Vrabel obviously just hasn't loved him as a player. Like, especially, I mean, we just tell like he's been chopped the whole preseason. They were shopping him. Nobody fucking wanted him.
00:05:17
Savage Boston
Like they, it was really obvious. And I know that, you know, obviously you don't have to agree, but like clearly loves Jalen Hawkins. No problem with getting Hawkins out there. Doesn't mind rolling with a rookie in Craig Woodson, but he doesn't want, I mean, look, when we talked about it.
00:05:30
Savage Boston
um We had, it we had Doug Kite on the pod in the, in the preseason. We said, I told him, i was like, Hey, you know, is this redundant? We got, you know, peppers and Duggar. I thought, ah I thought you'd keep one. And this was kind of like the traditional strong safety and like, and like is one redundant. We were like, Oh, i don't know.
00:05:46
Savage Boston
Turns out they want to get rid of both of them. And like, it's just weird how they want to adjust the roster and what types of players they want and what archetype of players. And I think just to flip quick on Keon White, um he just didn't, he didn't fit.
00:06:01
Savage Boston
He didn't fit what Vrabel wants to do. He's like a tween. He's a Bill Belichick player, dude. He's like a Like a five technique. Like he would have been like Willie McGinnis back in the day, just way not way worse.
00:06:14
Savage Boston
But like he would have been like stack the edge, strong edge, like Anthony Jennings, maybe you can rush the passer a little. Vrabel wants guys who can affect the quarterback, period. That's who he wants. wants more speed.
00:06:25
Savage Boston
he wants Sure, if you can play a strong edge, that's awesome. But like you can see with Anthony Jennings, clearly Jennings has struggled to find a role on the defense, despite what I thought he was an excellent player with a Bill Belichick defense. you know He was a really strong edge. so um Yeah, Pete, how do you feel about that?
00:06:42
Peter Collins
Well, a couple of things, Brett, you mentioned Jennings. I think Vrabel said at a press conference that he expects to elevate and sign him because you're right, they're out of call-ups for him, so they need to sign him to the active roster. So that might answer your question of are they going to add a running back? Probably not. It's probably Jennings.
00:06:56
Bret
Thank you.
00:06:56
Peter Collins
um The Duggar thing? I don't know if we have the depth there either to Brett's point. Ellis would be the third safety if Hawkins or or Woodson had to go down and miss time. And I'm not really all that comfortable with it.
00:07:08
Peter Collins
Duggar as an insurance policy almost seems better than Ellis for a seventh round pick, but then you got to consider the contract. The contract is really what pushes you over the edge. And,
00:07:20
Peter Collins
You're right. It's a scheme fit. And I think the answer to the peppers trade is also scheme, right? Or not trade release. They went to the same team. That's to say they went to the same scheme. ah So,
00:07:29
Savage Boston
but So weird.
00:07:29
Bret
That's just wild.
00:07:30
Savage Boston
So weird.
00:07:31
Peter Collins
Right. So the, our starting safeties shifted over to the Steelers to their scheme. And we brought in a different scheme, a more fast, ah truly a ah more leaner type of of safety, the safety play. I think Hawkins and Woodson's is fine. Hawkins stepped up into the box and made a couple of plays showing that versatility. I'm fine with those two safeties. I'm not fine with the depth behind them though.
00:07:53
Bret
Yeah, that's where I say it's all depth for me with this team. I mean, we're really fucking lucky that we have not had any major injuries, right?
00:07:53
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:08:01
Savage Boston
yeah
00:08:04
Peter Collins
mean, Hawkins missed the game, and you saw how they exposed Duggar, right?
00:08:05
Bret
oh
00:08:07
Bret
Yeah, I know.
00:08:09
Savage Boston
got duuggger got burnt by 50 yards immediately by Olave.
00:08:12
Peter Collins
that was on the coach.
00:08:13
Savage Boston
You remember that?
00:08:14
Peter Collins
The coach to took onus for that and said that he sent in the wrong read to him and and screwed him over.
00:08:15
Savage Boston
Did he? Yeah, set him up poorly.
00:08:18
Peter Collins
So all all's fair.
00:08:19
Savage Boston
First play the game.
00:08:20
Peter Collins
That wasn't maybe on Duggar.
00:08:21
Savage Boston
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:22
Peter Collins
But yeah, the first play of the game, you're like, geez, Duggar.
00:08:25
Bret
Yeah, but again, it's just it's one of those things where at least he's more viable than, like you said, Ellis, which I would agree. I think maybe he's not a good scheme fit, but you can't flip it over in a year.
00:08:38
Bret
I mean, they're doing impressive things because May is on another level right now. He's out of this universe with where he's playing. Eventually, that's going to settle, which is still going to be excellent because he's still – Shows that he's going to be a great quarterback, but you can't expect to, again, fill in all of those other gaps. So I just don't, I don't understand why they're rushing to make this unless there's another
Trade Strategies and NFL Comparisons
00:09:03
Bret
move to come. So I'm going to hold on fully judging it until we get to that trade deadline. If we don't make a move, then i think it's a stupid ass move.
00:09:12
Savage Boston
Well, so in regard to the trade to come, because that's obviously a fun, it's A, it's a fun topic, right? Everyone loves like potential trades. But B, i mean, there's there's been enough reporting. So like there's reporting tonight, like new reporting, like Diana Rossini, who weirdly enough is catching a lot of shit from people about some of her reporting and like constantly about AJ Brown. i don't know why she's catching shit, but she reported tonight.
00:09:34
Savage Boston
The Patriots are going to be sellers, like now, and buyers, like with emphasis on and buyers. there it's I don't think this is just we're dumping a couple players for late round picks. Like I think this isn't necessarily a setup.
00:09:49
Savage Boston
Mike Reese today, even the radio alluded again, they're looking strongly at edge. know they're looking at edge.
00:10:02
Savage Boston
reese today even on the radio alluded to again they're looking strongly at edge we know they're looking at edge Now who they get, I don't know. Arden key is a name out there. Jaden Phillips.
00:10:15
Savage Boston
you know, I would like so a bigger splash like cave on Thibodeau or like, i would really like that. Say every podcast, Trey Hendrickson. I've said fucking forever. i really wanted a real impact player and something you can make. Cause like, again, I'm in harping on the the, the championship window to me is, is now.
00:10:32
Savage Boston
And I know that's maybe aggressive language, but the windows now the windows open, the leagues pretty wide open. Like I think, you know, obviously the scariest team to me right now is Kansas city for good reason.
00:10:44
Savage Boston
Um, there's such a solid coaching staff and skit schematically. They're incredibly solid with a good defense. So I think Kansas city, not mentioning moms on purpose. Um, but I think Kansas city is, is, is a good team. Right. So, um, but the, but it's wide open. So you have to make the most of your opportunity and beginning now and,
00:11:04
Savage Boston
As Bert Breer has alluded to, you have a short-term bucket, long-term bucket. You're not just going to get a rental. Like if you traded for Hendrickson, you need to have an extension with it. If you trade for Kayvon Thibodeau, he comes with one more year in the deal and you can work an extension.
00:11:18
Savage Boston
So I'd like someone like Thibodeau because, uh, KV on, uh, Caleb on chasens, on a, you know, one year deal or whatever. Like you don't know where chasing on it's going to, he could go, he could go anywhere cash out on this year.
00:11:30
Savage Boston
Right. And so, so that's where I would lean as Caleb, uh, is, um, Kayvon Thibodeau. So don't know. What are you thinking?
Offensive Performance and Player Highlights
00:11:38
Peter Collins
I think they're definitely going to be in the market for an edge. I just don't think you're going to get the splashy move that you've been hoping for there with the Hendricks.
00:11:44
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:11:45
Peter Collins
And if you just look at the NFL trade deadline, it's not the MLB trade deadline. It's not the NBA tre trade deadline. We're also used to those trade deadlines where... big things happen and big names get moved that just doesn't seem to be the case in the NFL you get these depth players and pick swaps in the sixth round I mean look what we've done right depth players sixth round picks seventh round pick swaps that's the sexy trades that go on during the NFL trade online so fall in line with that and I can't go to all the other you know teams and start looking at their third defensive end and
00:12:07
Savage Boston
Mm-hmm.
00:12:18
Peter Collins
you know, on losing teams, but that's what you do. You go to losing teams. You look at like that third defensive, you know, who they can, who they can get rid of. And that's who you target. So I would expect some depth to come in there at the edge, especially with a piece going out the door.
00:12:30
Peter Collins
I think that's why you send the pieces out the door to create holes, to bring pieces in the door, right?
00:12:30
Savage Boston
and
00:12:34
Peter Collins
Like out and in, and I don't even call us sellers. That doesn't seem like the right move, right?
00:12:39
Savage Boston
No, no. no it's it's Yeah, it's not even a good word.
00:12:40
Peter Collins
Like, It's not even a good liquidate a couple of your assets to bring in some greater assets to improve the team this year, but also having the focus on next year because our record is really good this year.
00:12:42
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:12:43
Bret
Thank you.
00:12:44
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:12:51
Peter Collins
And you're right. It's wide open this year, but we might be better next year. We probably will be better next year as like all these teams grow. And as the system takes another year to settle in, like, We should be better next year. Our record might not say we're better, but we should be like a more wholesome team. So I think the trade deadline needs to take both of those things into consideration.
00:13:10
Peter Collins
Yes, it's wide open this year, but also we're going to be better next year in the years to come. So let's think about that too.
00:13:17
Bret
Yeah.
00:13:17
Savage Boston
Yeah, I love how they're they're just upswinging. Sorry, go for Brett.
00:13:21
Bret
Yeah, I was just going to 100% agree with everything you just said across the board. It's not a splash market in the NFL, so don't expect a big splash there. They've said numerous, numerous times that while they're looking to be aggressive, they're always thinking long term, which is the right mentality to have.
00:13:39
Bret
And then so I do expect them to make some additions. It's just not going to be ah a big splash that's going to really tip the scale from where we're at. It just might be a better schematic fit for what they're trying to do and just give us another depth piece.
00:13:54
Bret
And I think a lot of it's going to be on the defensive side. I know we've talked a little bit about offense and you know, you just mentioned the relationship with AJ Brown and that's always been a hot topic all year. ah But there's other ones like an Alave type player, which and I know we've talked about. And if you can find a young guy like that, I'm a hundred percent for going full bore there.
00:14:14
Bret
We have the cap space. We have some of the picks that we can make some moves. And if it's for a young guy that you can sign after you trade, then I think that would be amazing. I just don't expect it. yeah,
00:14:26
Bret
We'll see what happens. i just don't want them to play it soft. We've got to make sure we stay aggressive here because we do have a couple of tough stretches going. and The longer we get we get into the season, the higher the probability that someone's going to go down and we're going to run it without certain pieces. We've got to figure out how to make sure we shore some of that depth up.
00:14:49
Savage Boston
I mean, some of the guys that have been traded, i think what Roger McCurry got traded, corner from Tennessee. And that was, again, what was that, like a sixth or something again? Like it was not ah not a high pick.
00:14:59
Savage Boston
It was another like like exping yeah expiring contract.
00:15:00
Peter Collins
I don't.
00:15:00
Bret
They never are high picks.
00:15:04
Savage Boston
Like I don't – since you've just traded those two players out the door that don't fit your scheme – Go do the same thing from another team with a late-round pick swap and get guys who do fit your scheme as depth to pieces.
00:15:15
Savage Boston
Like that, to me, you should have an active deadline. I think they're smart enough to understand that. like Like what does Arden Key get you? The Tennessee edge. Is he on expiring deal as well? Arden Key? Does anyone know that? Top of their head.
00:15:27
Peter Collins
and don't
00:15:27
Bret
No idea.
00:15:28
Savage Boston
Looked up. Anyway, ah but Arden Key's a name that's got shop. Tennessee guy, you know, whatever, like got got connections. And then he's a name. He's an edge rusher. you know, you get take another flyer and him just for a depth piece. Right.
00:15:41
Bret
yeah He's signed through this year.
00:15:41
Savage Boston
Like there's guys like that signed through this year.
00:15:45
Savage Boston
That's it. Right. So he, again, expiring contract late round pick swap. Okay. Come on in death piece at edge. Like that to me is a good deal. Same with like, it's only Jalen Phillips. You're not giving real at, you would only give real assets for someone like cave on Thibodeau who you would like, i don't know what, I wouldn't want to give us a second, but people throw all crazy shit out there.
00:16:04
Savage Boston
But like,
00:16:04
Peter Collins
think they said he's off the table.
00:16:06
Savage Boston
They did. Mike Garofalo said that. But like I just don't know who i don't know who's right or who's telling the truth. like the Jordan Schultz throws out, hey, Thibodeau is an interesting guy to look at.
00:16:12
Peter Collins
Yeah.
00:16:16
Savage Boston
Then within 30 minutes, Garofalo says, Thibodeau is not available. So, all right, who talked to the agent? Jordan Schultz. Who talked to the team? Garofalo. Anyway, I was – those are like my whispering noises.
00:16:30
Savage Boston
I did like a whispering thing since you can't see me.
00:16:31
Peter Collins
I liked it. Yeah.
00:16:33
Savage Boston
Anyway, like – but that's – like Jordan Schultz, we know he talks to agents.
00:16:42
Savage Boston
text jordan sch like Why would You know what I mean? like Connecting the dots here. like Why would he text that unless they thought like that's a reality like to to build some sort of hype?
00:16:53
Peter Collins
The
00:16:53
Savage Boston
Like, wow, all former blah, blah, blah player, you know, versus like then Mike Garofalo goes to the Giants or talks to other people, other GMs who have tried to talk to the Giants and they go, yeah, he's not available.
00:17:05
Savage Boston
That was his wording. He talked to other GMs. So someone's talking agents, someone's talking to other GMs. I just find the whole game fascinating. The whole, the game of it, the news game.
00:17:13
Peter Collins
ah source war
00:17:14
Savage Boston
Source war, I mean, but it's real, like, because you don't actually know who's telling the truth in source war because it behooves the organizations to say a guy's not really available, only for the right price.
00:17:25
Savage Boston
Only the right price.
00:17:25
Peter Collins
sometimes Sometimes information is relayed, though, for future favors.
00:17:25
Bret
Well, the best thing about...
00:17:31
Peter Collins
Like, I'll tell you this, when I need something later, you're going to hook me up. So sometimes it's like that. Sometimes it's not emotive.
00:17:35
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:17:36
Peter Collins
It's just exactly.
00:17:36
Savage Boston
Quid pro quo.
00:17:38
Bret
I think the only thing i'll I'll take some happiness about is the fact that the trade deadline is coming up a lot quicker than we have to deal with the draft.
00:17:38
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:17:47
Bret
And when that gets really ramped up in speculation and who's got what and where they're going, how is it going, that becomes exhausting.
00:17:48
Savage Boston
Oh my God.
00:17:52
Peter Collins
Ugh.
00:17:54
Bret
And it's much
00:17:55
Savage Boston
There's nothing like draft season and three months of mock drafting. And I know like, can't wait to make fun of that again as we all just go crazy. And it's going to worse this year because we're in a good way.
00:18:07
Savage Boston
Cause we're not go to be drafting fourth overall.
00:18:08
Bret
Oh, we're in the weeds.
00:18:09
Savage Boston
Like there's way less choices. arem Sorry. Way more choices. So you're going to be like, there's like 20 players, you you know, it's kind of, people are going get silly.
00:18:18
Peter Collins
At least we don't have Tankathon this year. Strength of schedule.
00:18:20
Savage Boston
Oh my god, I'm so fucking sick of Tankathon doing that.
00:18:22
Bret
but that was That was the biggest thing I kept coming away from this past game is it feels so fucking good to have an elite level play out of the quarterback position and competent coaching.
00:18:23
Peter Collins
and test schedule
00:18:23
Savage Boston
How many... Mm-hmm.
00:18:35
Bret
Like we haven't had this before. Since Brady left. It just hasn't been that way. so Coming away from that. It's just so damn good. that I couldn't agree with you more. like That tank-a-thon is so fucking depressing.
00:18:50
Peter Collins
Yeah.
00:18:50
Bret
Trying to convince yourself. That Mac Jones could be something. That he's clearly not. it's just It feels so good. so Let's get into this past week. Obviously. Another great day for Drake May. just The guy continues to elevate.
00:19:07
Bret
Everyone around him continues to make plays. And I'd say outside a Buffalo game, this was probably his best game of the year. Just due to the fact that he's going against Cleveland, he probably faced the most adversity in this game, just getting banged up, especially in the first half.
00:19:24
Bret
But the kid just stuck with it. Like, yeah, we had the turnover, but that's going to happen. you He's not going to be perfect forever. He just didn't see the guy dropping back into the zone.
00:19:36
Bret
Other than that, I mean, great decisions, face adversity, make great throws. Obviously, third quarter just boomed. Like, you know what were you guys thoughts? Obviously, with Drake May and his continued elevation with, ah you know, how we're performing, you know, Savage, what do you think?
00:19:54
Savage Boston
Yeah, I don't know why. Who's it? Bedard had a weird clip today on... I don't know.
00:20:00
Peter Collins
Leave it to him.
00:20:00
Savage Boston
He hates me anyway. But Bedard had know just the weirdest clip where said something like yesterday, like, you can't really – this is not a game you want to take much from Drake May. But it's a bizarre quote.
00:20:11
Savage Boston
Why – in what way could you write off this game? Like, are we forgetting the Browns' defense was, like, actually very, very good? Like, top of the league good? i know people can just pretend like they're not because you see the Browns and they lost.
00:20:21
Peter Collins
Playoff caliber.
00:20:25
Savage Boston
They don't have a good record. Their offense is ass.
00:20:29
Bret
Oh.
00:20:29
Savage Boston
Like, ass, ass. Like, as ass, ass, ass. Like an ass song. That's some ass offense, dude. And, like, there but their defense is excellent. And, like, not just Myles Garrett. Like, they're they're a really good team.
00:20:42
Savage Boston
So, the Patriots dropping, not including the safety, dropping 30 on them. I know, like, Spillane had a nice pick and run back. But, like, Still dropped 30 on him, and you left a bunch on the table because they could have been – Travion Henderson, don't want to shit on him too much because he had a good day other than – but he had a fumble on the goal line, which is depressing. But they they could have put up almost a 40 spot on what was, by EPA standards, I think one of the best defenses in football.
00:21:07
Savage Boston
So, I don't know. I think it's like people want to use whatever excuse now to say, like, well, Drake hasn't done it for this or he hasn't done this. Well, he can only play against the teams that he'd play against.
00:21:20
Savage Boston
He went into Buffalo and won, right? And now they're getting teams on his schedule. And it's not like the Patriots are squeaking them. I mean, they're they're winning by 20 points. which is wild to think about. I mean, this is a very different team than last year. and And I'm going this weekend and against Atlanta.
00:21:36
Savage Boston
And if they lose this weekend, I'm fucked, man, because I'm 0-2 this year and the team is 6-2. Somehow I've only seen two losses. And if they lose again at home, man, I'm going really depressed.
00:21:46
Bret
You're gonna have to sell that Buffalo Bill ticket.
00:21:46
Savage Boston
so Oh, my God.
00:21:46
Peter Collins
You're not allowed to go anymore. Yeah.
00:21:49
Savage Boston
I'm going be so mad. So, anyway, but how do you feel, Pete?
00:21:52
Peter Collins
um but I mean, you mentioned it a little bit earlier, Brett, this team's going to have to settle at some point. And I think that interception kind of was settling. Like at some point you have to throw an interception, right? It has to come back to the mean, these statistics.
00:22:04
Savage Boston
Oh, yeah.
00:22:04
Peter Collins
And and that that was it. That's what you saw there. But I think ah a lot of people are waiting for this team's bottom to fall out from underneath them. And I just don't think that's going I think that this is the reality of the Patriots.
00:22:16
Peter Collins
I mean, back-to-back four-win teams, four-win seasons. for the Patriots. And so Bedard and these national, they're they're waiting for the bottom to fall out. They're saying, oh, the bront you can't count this game or you can't count that because of the schedule.
00:22:30
Peter Collins
And they're always coming up with these excuses because they're basically saying, you guys can't be this good based on how bad you've been. They are wrong about that. This is how good this team is.
00:22:38
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:22:39
Peter Collins
This is an accurate portrayal of how they are. They're putting up 30 spots on trash teams just like they should. This week, they put up a 30 spot on a playoff caliber defense. i mean, this is a top five defense in DVOA coming into the season.
00:22:52
Peter Collins
We put up, Cleveland had their worst day in yards, 422, first downs, 23, 24. first downs twenty three Rush yards, 177 yards per attempt, 8.2, seven explosives, a team EPA of plus 6.5.
00:23:05
Peter Collins
I mean, McDaniels took Schwartz to school in this one, and that should be noted.
00:23:09
Savage Boston
He had a good day. He had a really good day. McDaniels actually had an excellent day.
00:23:12
Peter Collins
A really good day.
00:23:14
Savage Boston
that That third quarter drive, Dan Orlowski mentioned that today, the third quarter drive by McDaniels, just like a master class of like running to the edges. like He saw something. He's like, we can beat these guys off the edge.
00:23:26
Savage Boston
like Running the edges, putting guys in motion. like they just They shredded them the third quarter. and I think you know with Drake, you know we don't even need –
00:23:34
Peter Collins
Thank you.
00:23:37
Savage Boston
the hyperbole, so to speak, right? We don't even need it to be like, he's the best ever. Like the numbers bear out what he's done and how Drake has elevated his team. Some of his numbers are getting spooky now where they're getting in the mix with like um some of the greatest seasons of all time, which is crazy.
00:23:56
Savage Boston
But like truly they are like a 200 yards passing over a hundred passer rating, seven games in a row stat. It's only like, ah all MVP winners. It's like 2011 Aaron Rodgers, 07 Brady, 18 Mahomes.
00:24:11
Savage Boston
You're like, ah you know what mean? It's like that's wild shit for real. like You're like, that this is crazy, man. like That's real historic stuff. you know i get the shoe drop thing.
00:24:21
Savage Boston
I get everyone wants to see it because you're like, it's like watching the stock market, right? You you know it can't go up forever, right?
00:24:26
Peter Collins
Mm-hmm.
00:24:27
Savage Boston
like The shoe drops at some point, but what if it doesn't? And what if Drake keeps playing at a really high level? Because I don't know why it would stop. You know, he's been excellent. McDaniels is being a great coordinator.
00:24:38
Savage Boston
They're working really, really well together. So, um I just – we thought it would be the second half of this year where Drake started to take a leap. And you're like, this is the Josh Allen time.
00:24:49
Savage Boston
Apparently, it's gonna be the whole fucking season, which is insane, insane to me.
00:24:54
Bret
Yeah, I mean, I'm glad you brought up Josh because this was, i think, ah really a statement game from him. Just – Really had a great game plan clearly coming out of the second half just the change of pace and what they did that first drive was a thing of beauty um and then I love the clip that you posted Savage where you had the the live feed of him and he was doing on that booty 50-yard throw and he's calling out what the
Strategic Trade Needs for Roster Improvement
00:25:20
Bret
defensive back is doing and how booty was gonna beat him and then it shows him afterwards talking to booty about how he read it and was perfect
00:25:23
Savage Boston
I good.
00:25:26
Bret
Like that is clearly Josh's coaching and footprint on the offense. And you saw it and the guys are buying in and going crazy for it. So, I was really happy that Josh came in. I know there's some conspiracy theorists that this was a craft guy and this and that.
00:25:42
Bret
I know Snooty's not a fan of Josh. I know Felger and Maz are making the Rabel v. Josh McDaniels thing a permanent shtick. But at the end of the day, the guy's a damn good offensive coordinator. He showed it this past Sunday against one of the best defenses in the entire league.
00:26:00
Bret
And another call-out is, well, Miles Garrett like went off, obviously, during the game, and we had a ton of sacks. We only let up one sack in the second half. So do think like another guy like Will Campbell, where some people would say got exposed, to me I look at it and say you're going against an otherworldly, all-generational defensive end.
00:26:13
Peter Collins
Hall Famer.
00:26:20
Peter Collins
hall of famer
00:26:23
Bret
That's going to happen. We schematically worked our way out of that to not make it an impact.
00:26:28
Savage Boston
Well, let me let me just touch on Will Campbell really quick. I guess a lot of people going back through the tape, he actually really didn't have a bad day. And this is surprising, like looking at scoring. Like he was one of the higher PFF grades, which nobody likes. I know I caveat every time.
00:26:44
Savage Boston
He was one of the highest p PFF grades on the offense, like top four, something like that. But watching – I forget one account posted his one-on-one reps versus Miles Garrett this morning. No
Upcoming Game Preview: Patriots vs. Falcons
00:26:55
Savage Boston
chipping.
00:26:56
Savage Boston
Just one-on-one reps, all of them. He almost won every rep. He was actually really good in true one-on-one sets. The problem he had, and this makes sense, he lost on two occasions each when Myles Garrett got chipped because Henry chipped him and then Garrett was in open space and he just went inside and Cable's just flat-footed.
00:27:18
Savage Boston
But every time he had a traditional drop step write and kick blocking back, Campbell actually held his own. And then run blocking, he was really good. So actually think Campbell ah campbell is doing fine.
00:27:31
Savage Boston
You know, I mean, people can keep saying whatever. I think it's funny, like engagement rise, right? Whenever you hit on ah certain player, people will get all they get all rowdy. You know what I mean? like You're like, oh, Campbell gave up a sack. fucking told you.
00:27:46
Savage Boston
T-Rex. Woo. And it's like, he's been pretty good this year. He's 20, what is he, like 22? A 22-year-old rookie left tackle just doing one-on-ones against Miles Garrett. Like, kid's just going to get bigger and stronger and faster.
00:28:01
Savage Boston
and yeah And again, like, he I think he's doing a totally fine job, basically. So... No problems there. I just think it's weird that he's like one of those third rail players. Like there's a few of those third rail guys. It's like if you say if if Christian Gonzalez gives up a catch and you're like, ah, Gonzo gave up a catch there. Everyone's like, what do you mean? – it was like sometimes the fandom gets odd.
00:28:25
Savage Boston
That's all I'll say. But –
00:28:26
Peter Collins
It reminds me of Bailey Zappi with the Will Campbell. There's like people out there that just, they no matter what this person does, it's golden.
00:28:29
Savage Boston
ah
00:28:34
Peter Collins
um and They can never do it all wrong. And then you have the other camp that everything they do is terrible and it's all bad. I'm somewhere in the middle with Will Campbell, right? There's some bad reps out there from the last game, but there's plenty of good ones too.
00:28:46
Peter Collins
And a good rep against Myles Garrett is something to take home and be, and yeah, and to cherish, right?
00:28:50
Savage Boston
He's a great player.
00:28:52
Peter Collins
And you mentioned it, the the chip, that was a poor strategy. Or...
00:28:56
Savage Boston
Didn't work,
00:28:56
Peter Collins
The execution of that strategy was poor, might be better, said. um Campbell gave much too much room to Garrett off those chips. it would I mean, I'm sure Snooty will break it down, you know, the offensive lineman that he is.
00:29:08
Savage Boston
you know.
00:29:08
Peter Collins
ah
00:29:08
Savage Boston
He would.
00:29:09
Peter Collins
Far better than me next time he's on the pod. But, yeah, I mean, he needed to stay inside out. He needed to be a little bit little bit closer there, Will Campbell. I had him down for two. za um And if I was talking about it on the pod last night with the Viz. needs to be a stat for like ah s sacks over expected. Like I expected him to let up two sacks and he did. So that he did what I expected him to do against the Hall of Famer.
00:29:31
Peter Collins
And that's fine. he's like an average left tackle right now. And that's fine but because you mentioned it's only going up. It's not coming down his performance.
00:29:39
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:29:39
Peter Collins
So I'm fine with Wilkhan.
00:29:40
Savage Boston
i mean His performance has been totally reasonable.
00:29:42
Bret
the
00:29:43
Peter Collins
Totally fine.
00:29:43
Savage Boston
That's all say this year.
00:29:44
Peter Collins
Totally fine.
00:29:44
Savage Boston
Totally fine. yeah i did not expect Trent Williams year one. That's not how this game works. But year one, rookie Will Campbell holding his own most of the season with pretty good grading.
00:29:56
Savage Boston
Like, he's a top half of the league left tackle. Like, he's doing fine. You know what I mean?
00:30:00
Peter Collins
Playing next to a rookie guard.
00:30:00
Savage Boston
I'm i'm happy. Like, that's great. He's a rookie.
00:30:03
Peter Collins
Well, playing next to rookie guard, too, who's out of position, right?
00:30:04
Savage Boston
You know?
00:30:06
Peter Collins
So the left side of the line, working on stunts with each other, are two rookies who aren't used to...
00:30:08
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:30:11
Peter Collins
The guard isn't used to communicating with the tackle, right? So there's there's like a learning curve that needs to be understood on the left side of the offensive line.
00:30:18
Savage Boston
um Absolutely.
00:30:18
Peter Collins
And they've been fine.
00:30:20
Savage Boston
mean, if you're going to be mad at one rookie on the line, it would be Jared Wilson rather than Will Campbell.
00:30:24
Peter Collins
You have to. had a good game.
00:30:26
Savage Boston
and And I think next year I'm hoping they shift. We talked about hoping they shift Wilson to center at some point. And then maybe you can, i don't know, bring in a really good left guard or I don't know.
00:30:31
Peter Collins
yeah
00:30:36
Savage Boston
You have to draft one again. i don't know what your plan is, but like, but you need to maybe improve the position.
00:30:38
Peter Collins
Figure it out. 100%.
00:30:42
Savage Boston
Cause again, the line being good, and being better this season has been so, so awesome. It's just such a massive improvement. I mean, it allows Drake to do a lot, but I think in reality, Drake is just a really difficult kid to to the game plan for.
00:30:55
Savage Boston
I mean, I think he's really hard to game plan for. I think he does. Like even, what was it? um Andrew Callahan been on the pod. Good guy. he said something recently where he's like, I think teams are going to attack the Patriots with a lot of man-on-man,
00:31:08
Savage Boston
ah because this thing happened in the Browns game and blah, blah, blah. So it's going to be a have to be man-on-man. And someone in the comments had like, Drake May's stats against man-on-man.
00:31:18
Peter Collins
Mm-hmm.
00:31:18
Savage Boston
And it was like the most elite efficiency in football. And it's like, okay, well, that's actually a good point then. Like, how do you attack Drake right now? Because his receivers aren't elite, elite.
00:31:26
Bret
Well, well
00:31:29
Savage Boston
You know, he's got a good group, but we always thought they were like, meh, he's got a solid group. Booty is really playing really well. Diggs has had a couple amazing games. And then, you know, Matt Collins and Pop, and, like, he's got an okay group.
00:31:42
Savage Boston
But no one would say this is the most elite group in football. The common denominator is Drake May elevating everyone. And I think, you know, he's a hard he's hard to game plan. It's kind of like Mahomes in some way. He's a hard guy to game plan against.
00:31:56
Savage Boston
Other than if you just get a ton of pressure with four guys, if you get a lot of pressure with four guys, you can beat any team, really, right? But, like, he's a hard kid to game plan for, is all I'm saying.
00:32:06
Peter Collins
we We saw the defenses transition from a single high to a two high safety.
00:32:06
Savage Boston
um
00:32:10
Peter Collins
I mean, that's, I think, what defenses are starting to do. You got to throw two high safeties on him all day or he's just going to beat you deep.
00:32:15
Savage Boston
And then they should be able to run the football or something.
00:32:17
Peter Collins
You should be able to run the football, right?
00:32:17
Savage Boston
You know what i mean? Like, yeah.
00:32:18
Peter Collins
Yeah, absolutely.
00:32:20
Savage Boston
Yeah.
00:32:21
Bret
Yeah, I mean, i agree. i know Murray and Dundero talked about that postgame, and they said, how do you attack this Patriots team? And i believe Bedard also said he would go like press man.
00:32:35
Bret
ah He thinks that would be a good thing to mess up the receivers because you could beat up the receivers getting off, which could mess them up a little bit.
00:32:35
Peter Collins
Yep.
00:32:41
Bret
But ultimately, when a circles back to Drake, you're right. The guy hasn't shown anything. ah really much weak spots and we've talked about its ben it been comes down to his decision making at this point because he's got all of the equipment to be able to go out there and execute clearly can throw the ball better than apparently anyone ever has thrown the ball deep in the entire history of the nfl uh the guy's elite coming out of the backfield can run away from the defender
00:33:04
Peter Collins
Bye.
00:33:10
Bret
It just comes down to, is he going to go down or is he going to try to fight for something extra and get caught and then get injured? I do laugh because one of the guys, there was a caller that called in postgame, and this is just your typical New England find something to bitch about.
00:33:25
Bret
And he talked about the sacks and he's like, when's this kid going to learn to throw the ball away? And I'm just thinking to myself, I'm like, what the fuck is this guy talking about? He never took a serious hit. He obviously was going against a difficult spot. And Miles Garrett, again, generational talent player. like Some of that stuff is just not going to be on Drake. And it is what it is. I'm but okay with the guy tucking it. Brady did it for decades where he would just tuck it and go down.
00:33:50
Bret
Let's not try to throw it away in case it gets tipped or it's an essential grounding or it gets picked. Let's just eat it when it's not there so you don't get a major hit. But No, you look at his game across the board.
00:34:03
Bret
He just doesn't look like he has a flaw at this point. I think the only thing that I could point to where it's going to be continued growth is that decision making. But to this point, it's hard to criticize even that because he's just making so many right decisions and he's executing at a crazy level.
00:34:12
Peter Collins
Thank you.
00:34:19
Savage Boston
So that to kind of loop it back to obviously how do you improve the roster now, it's back to just the only thing option you have is you have to make a move. You have to make a deal and probably on defense.
00:34:30
Savage Boston
And that's kind of like coming coming full circle. Because you're just saying, okay, well, how do we keep getting better? you know if people a lot of people you hear, like they're like, okay, the roster isn't there yet. We're not there yet. we're not Why not?
00:34:43
Savage Boston
Why can't we be there yet? They went into Buffalo in one. They're 6-2. We're almost halfway through the year with a soft schedule. You know, if this team could win realistically, if they win 11 games, you know, which is realistic, I think, at this point, um and you can maybe win the AFC East. If you win 12 games, you can win the AFC East, host a playoff game.
00:35:02
Savage Boston
mean, there's no reason in the pretty wide open AFC that you can't you can't win some serious games. And I think that's why, again, leaping back to be aggressive and try to improve the roster, right? And especially on defense.
00:35:16
Savage Boston
That's where I go with that. um Why don't we just just shifting? So looking ahead to to the Falcons, right? Because, again, last game, great game. Drake, awesome. Love it. Do the Falcons do anything right now? like like Like they either win 30-0 or lose 30-0 every game.
00:35:34
Savage Boston
And I don't know what Falcons you're going to get in this game. Like if Penix plays, are obviously a hell a lot better than if Kirk Cousins plays. He's checked out to all hell. He was awful in this last game. If Drake London plays, Drake London, really good player.
00:35:48
Savage Boston
they They're both, you know, so if Pennix and London are playing and Bijan Robinson is obviously incredibly talented, there's some real talent on that side of the ball. So, um Pete, why don't you go ahead? How do you feel about just the matchup coming up this this weekend?
00:36:01
Peter Collins
um I think I feel exactly like Vegas does. They've already moved the line from five and a half to six and a half. And I think it's still too low.
00:36:07
Savage Boston
It does.
00:36:08
Peter Collins
ah this This just seems like a mismatch again. When you're at home, you're given two points, two and a half points, right?
00:36:11
Savage Boston
It does.
00:36:14
Peter Collins
So at that five and a half line, two and a half, they were saying it was a field goal game and a neutral site between these two teams. I disagree wholeheartedly. I don't think the Falcons compared to the Patriots. The Patriots would have to let themselves down in order to lose this game, especially being at home.
00:36:30
Peter Collins
um all their efficiency metrics, their EPAs, their, you know, our rush yards, over-expected, all those fancy stats, they're bottom half of the league, these Falcons are. The Patriots are top half of the league in all of their metrics. They're just a way more efficient and effective football team. And you mentioned some of the injuries. They're getting some of their players back.
00:36:50
Peter Collins
um But Robinson, their running back, their star, has had letdown performances back-to-back weeks, a super letdown performance last week. I mean, they're coming off a loss to the Dolphins. It feels like the Falcons are at some sort of like a make or a break point in their season.
00:37:03
Peter Collins
They're three and four. They got the Patriots, and then they fly over to Germany next week. So it's like if you lose to the Patriots and you're three and five in Germany,
00:37:10
Savage Boston
Season's over.
00:37:11
Peter Collins
Yes, it's kind of like, see so this might be really important to the Falcons. That's the only concern that I have is the Patriots got a five game win streak. It's la-di-da. Everything's good. The Falcons are like, this is a make or break point in our season. I just hope it's not like a letdown spot. That would be my only concern because like I said, how I let it off full confidence in this team. This team should is way better statistically on paper and just when you watch the two teams better.
00:37:34
Savage Boston
Yeah. Yeah, agree. Brett, what do you think?
00:37:37
Bret
To me, it's the Falcons are so Jekyll and Hyde. They've had some obvious like matchups where you look at and say, what the fuck was that? I mean, Dolphins most recently.
00:37:45
Peter Collins
Thank you.
00:37:46
Bret
They also got shut out by the Panthers. Like, what the fuck is that? But then they beat the Bills, and that was when the Bills were kind of in a funk. I thought they played the Niners okay.
00:37:57
Bret
you know Even early on, they played the Bucs, which was early in the season. So they've had some fair matchups against some tough teams, but then they've come out and laid absolute eggs against what should be garbage teams. And you're right. There's a ton of talent on that team.
00:38:14
Bret
It's just they've never been able to fully mesh it together and get that consistency out of that grouping. So we'll see. I think it's going to still be a test. a I'm not as bullish as you are, Pete.
00:38:28
Bret
I think it is going to be a a win, and i I'm agreeing with Vegas.
00:38:29
Peter Collins
Yeah.
00:38:30
Savage Boston
Oh, yeah.
00:38:33
Bret
I think a touchdown win is probably about the line that it should be, and I think if we play our game and and do what we need to do, it's going to be the case. What's going be interesting to me is can we keep but John Robinson under 50 yards? Because apparently our defense is on another historic run when it comes to the ability to stop the run.
00:38:51
Bret
And I do think if we can find a way to bottle him up and not make him effective and force Penix to throw –
00:38:51
Savage Boston
yeah
00:38:57
Bret
Panics is garbage. Like he's not a good quarterback. So we can definitely capitalize on that one. And I think that would be the winning formula from a defensive side of things on their defensive side. They are statistically a pretty solid defense.
00:39:12
Bret
um So I,
00:39:14
Savage Boston
They're better than people think on defense.
00:39:16
Bret
I think they could put out fits.
00:39:16
Peter Collins
Against the pass, they're solid.
00:39:18
Bret
Yeah, I think they could definitely put up fits. They did a lot in the offseason. I mean, before last week against the Dolphins, they were statistically the second best defense in the league. So there's talent there, enough for me to be, let's not take this one lightly.
00:39:32
Bret
ah But I do think we are the better team. We're playing at a much more consistent level. We're at home. So because of all those things, I agree with Vegas. I think we win by a touchdown. ah but I don't think it's going to be just a walkover. I'd be shocked if we can win by more than two scores.
00:39:49
Savage Boston
All right, well, what' I'll go first with the score. This is how we've usually been ending each pod. but I feel like we've been pretty pretty on it with score predictions. What did we have last week, Brett? I forget where everyone was at.
00:39:59
Bret
I said 24-14. I think you said like 21-13 or something like that.
00:40:05
Savage Boston
So we even undershot what the Pats did.
00:40:07
Bret
Well, what's funny too is is I had said if they put up 28 –
00:40:08
Savage Boston
I
00:40:12
Bret
anything more than 28, they can score on anyone. And um i think that was the right breed.
00:40:15
Savage Boston
think you're right.
00:40:18
Bret
And I mean, i didn't think we could put up more than 28 and we ended up putting up more than 30. ah
00:40:24
Savage Boston
I'm going to say, all right, I'll go for I'm going to say this week, Pats, um let's just say 28-17. Pats. What do you think?
00:40:37
Peter Collins
You kind of stole mine. Mine's 27-17. So, I mean, we're we're right there around the same.
00:40:40
Savage Boston
oh there we go
00:40:42
Peter Collins
Last week, I had the Patriots winning 24-18 for what it's worth if we're comparing last week's.
00:40:46
Savage Boston
Yeah, I thought that game was going to be tighter, actually, against the Browns.
00:40:47
Peter Collins
and Yep.
00:40:49
Savage Boston
i really did, but.
00:40:50
Peter Collins
Yeah, I had Browns with the with the points and i had Patriots money line. That was like my pick. But, yeah, I thought it going be
00:40:55
Savage Boston
I swear this is going to be a tighter game. I swear if I'm in person 0-3 this year on a six-win season, like I'm going to lose my mind, actually. I'm going to legitimately – going to have to sell my season tickets.
00:41:05
Peter Collins
You should be banned. You should ban yourself. Self-suspension.
00:41:10
Savage Boston
Yeah, automatic suspension. I'm going to lose it. Brett, yeah. So, Brett, what do you got for the score?
00:41:15
Bret
I think this one's going pretty high scoring. I'm going to say 30 to 24. You know what?
00:41:20
Savage Boston
oh wow. feel like if they give up 24 to the Falcons, I'm not going to be super happy with that. I feel like – I don't know. This is such a weird – they're like a weird team. It's like they're an enigma to everybody.
00:41:31
Savage Boston
They can beat good teams. They lose to horrible teams by a lot. Like they're just a weird roster.
00:41:35
Bret
no You know what they are? They're a team made up by someone that, like, drafts in fantasy football, right?
00:41:41
Peter Collins
you
00:41:41
Bret
They have all these skilled players, all these guys in different positions, young, all this stuff.
00:41:41
Savage Boston
Yeah. pass.
00:41:44
Savage Boston
pass.
00:41:46
Bret
They just don't have a great core group, right? they't They're not great on the line. They're not great. I mean, especially the offensive line, they're not that great. The defensive line, they got better, but I don't think they're stalwarts.
00:41:59
Bret
So, you know.
00:42:00
Savage Boston
Yeah, not bad. all right, well well, we'll end it here. We're looking forward to the next week. I appreciate you guys tuning in. And again, Pete, don't sign off yet. Let's let it upload. Peace out, guys.
00:42:11
Peter Collins
Peace.
00:42:11
Bret
but