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Creating Business from Craft - a conversation with Lindsey Struck from NEST
0 Playsin 9 hours
Lindsey Struck is the Chief Handcraft Programs Officer at NEST. NEST helps artisan crafters from around the world work with major fashion and homeware brands and retailers.
Lindsey explains the history of NEST and the successful connections they have facilitated between crafters and major a fashion brand like Ralph Lauren and retailers like Williams Sonoma and West Elm.
Lindsey explains to host Michael Millward how NEST works and the impact that their work has on the lives of crafters around the world. Crafters may often work independently but collectively they create a major industry that provides a major source of work for women.
Michael mentions an interview he saw on the CBSnews programme 60 Minutes with Hermès artistic director Pierre-Alexis Dumas. You can watch that interview on You Tube.
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Visit Abeceder for more information about both Michael Millward and Lindsey Struck.
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Thank you to the team at Matchmaker.fmthe introduction to Lindsey Struck.
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Travel
NEST works with artisan crafters in over 125 countries.
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Transcript
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencastr.
Introduction to The Independent Minds Podcast
00:00:07
Speaker
Hello and welcome to The Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abysseedah and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for every everyone.
00:00:22
Speaker
I'm your host, Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abusida.
Craft as a Force for Good with Lindsay Struck
00:00:27
Speaker
Today, am going to be discussing craft as a force for good with Lindsay Struck, one of the leaders of Buildernest.org.
00:00:34
Speaker
or As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr. Zencastr is the all-in-one podcasting platform.
00:00:46
Speaker
You can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to the major platforms.
Podcasting with Zencastr
00:00:52
Speaker
Zencastr really does make making content so easy. If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr, visit zencastr.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code, Abysseedah.
00:01:07
Speaker
All the details are in the description. Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencastr is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading and subscribing to.
00:01:21
Speaker
As with every episode of the Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think. Today, my guest, Independent Mind, is Lindsay Strzok from Buildernest.
00:01:35
Speaker
Lindsay is based in New York State, in the United States of America.
Travel Plans and Ultimate Travel Club
00:01:40
Speaker
I've been to New York City, but not beyond the city limits, so to speak. So when I do go to New York State, I'll be sure to make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, because that is where I can access trade prices on flights, hotels, holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases.
00:01:58
Speaker
There is a link and a membership discount code in the description. Now that I have paid the heating bill, it is time to make an episode of The Independent Minds. Hello, Lindsay.
00:02:09
Speaker
Hello, Michael. How are you doing today? I'm doing great. That's good. How are you? I am also having a pretty great day. Thank you very much.
Lindsay Struck on Buildernest's Foundation and Mission
00:02:18
Speaker
Please could we start with you just telling us a little bit about yourself, how you came to set up Build-A-Nest.
00:02:24
Speaker
Sure. Well, thanks for having me. um Nest is a wonderful organization. was founded in 2006 by Rebecca Van Bergen, just as um microfinance as a concept was gaining traction It was shortly after, for those who know Etsy, um they launched their marketplace for craft. So we're setting up this organization right around and that sort of and time and place.
00:02:52
Speaker
We exist as an organization to really challenge misperceptions surrounding artisan work. Those misperceptions say that craft is niche, it's unscalable, its um It's really something that you do at home in your spare time. It's not um what it really is, which is a powerful force for social and economic change.
00:03:17
Speaker
So that's what we as an organization, as NEST, exist to challenge. We think that craft is actually ah really powerful tool as a global economy itself.
00:03:30
Speaker
It's actually the second largest employer of women globally after agriculture. And so we um build programming, we build partnerships, we work directly with artisan producers and social enterprises to really um bring sort of this truth to ah the masses and to and support the production of of craft um in hopefully every country in the world.
00:03:58
Speaker
Sounds great. One of the things that I wanted to pick up on because it really sort of struck with me is like saying that craft is seen as niche and almost people look down on craft because a couple of days ago i saw an interview with one of the directors of Hermes, the handbag leather goods manufacturer.
00:04:22
Speaker
and the interviewer was comparing Hermes with Mercedes and how you have to wait for your Hermes bag, your Birkin, your Kelly, whichever bag it is that you want, you have to wait for it.
00:04:36
Speaker
And he was explaining that yeah you can go into a car showroom and order a car and have it within a week or so, but It takes a long time to get your Birkin, your Kelly bag.
Craft vs. Industrial Production
00:04:50
Speaker
And he was saying, that's because you're comparing industrial production with craft. And craft takes time. Craft is about perfection and about the history, the story of the skills that go into making it.
00:05:05
Speaker
rather than repeating something time and time again and it being made by machine. It's very human process. It involves people in the production of something which is to a very high standard.
00:05:18
Speaker
Beautifully said. And I think that's really true. We've often said that craft is really one of the first true forms of luxury. And I think that kind of connects to the the story you mentioned with Hermes. It's that connection to um storytelling and heritage through craft production. We say, um you know, folks say, you know, it's craft is something that is not everyone does it. But in fact, I bet every listener um today can probably think of someone in their family that has some connection to craft. They used to sew, they're a quilter, they may be a woodworker.
00:05:57
Speaker
it is embroidery, beading, but those sort of um expressions of heritage and connection to cultural um grounding, it's present in um every country in the world.
00:06:10
Speaker
And so that sort of the creation of something from nothing, um it does take time. It does take a certain um level of skill that is um incredibly tedious.
00:06:23
Speaker
And that happens, that has happened for centuries, that still happens today. and Some of the businesses, the social enterprises that we work with globally, they are doing basket weaving, they're hand dyeing, they're spinning silks by hand, and then weaving those ceramics, woodworking. It really sort of spans the different types of craft production, um but all of them are are happening and and take a lot of intentionality, a lot of care um to produce something that is is providing visibility and viability for businesses um and value for craft. That's something that um I think is shared across the the industry and something as an organization we try and um validate. there's There's particularly that visibility piece in
00:07:15
Speaker
and We can sort of get into that conversation a bit, but really thinking about not just the craft itself, but who is producing that craft and and what are the conditions under which that craft is um being produced? And can we ensure that that feels safe and visible and and good?
00:07:31
Speaker
Yes. You mentioned that you were launched around the same sort of time as Estee, which is the marketplace for crafters. And what is it that you do that is different to Estee then, which is a marketplace, a website as as a marketplace?
00:07:47
Speaker
What is it that Build and Estee do that is different to that?
00:07:53
Speaker
What we will do is work directly with the producers, the artists and makers, the business to grow that business, um not through sales directly, which is what the marketplace would do, um but we help build the capacity of those businesses through resources, through education, through e-learning courses, through templates and mentorship and coaching that we provide directly to the business leaders um who are running those organizations.
NEST's Role in Artisan Growth
00:08:23
Speaker
um We help connect them to market um or think through what process has to be in place before they enter into that conversation. Are there considerations for quality control or logistics and shipping as these businesses begin to grow and scale? um So we work with artisan enterprises that are very um small and they might be a single producer somewhere in the United States that is making candles.
00:08:52
Speaker
in their basement and or have dreams of growing that business all the way through to really large artists and cooperatives in Kenya who are producing baskets in mass and working with really large retailers to sell those. And so it's the support for those two example businesses and everyone in between to grow what they do, grow their production, grow the revenue that they're bringing in so they can continue to provide employment opportunities for all of the artisans that work for them. So the nest that you are building then, I suppose, is as the conduit between that artisan producer and the retailer who's going to take their goods to market.
00:09:38
Speaker
Exactly. i love that image. Yeah, so do I actually. It's like the artisan in their garret toiling away and and making great things. But that's that's almost the reason why people become an artisan craft worker.
00:09:57
Speaker
They want to be the craftsperson. But anyone who sets up a business knows that they're going to spend a large part of your time dealing with marketing and dealing with finance, dealing with the sales, dealing with the logistics.
00:10:11
Speaker
And you're helping those artisan craft organizations put in place the processes to make that run smoothly. So, and I might be putting words in your mouth at this time, so that they can focus on the craft.
00:10:25
Speaker
Exactly that. And i think it's often because as you said, There is sort of ah an artisan or a craftsperson first who knows and understands the craft, or there's a or there's a social impact message behind this. There someone who knows craft, knows it's an economic driver in a community, and wants to sort of capitalize on that to create economic opportunity in a community. And so they're focused on the craft production, but the pieces, as you say, that have to come together around that
00:10:58
Speaker
craft to make it a viable ah source of income for community. Those pieces, sometimes they come together really clearly and easily and smoothly. And Nest is is there to bring the rest of that all together for them. And I think there's a piece on top of the marketing and sales and all of that really good business stuff, which another value add that is not really thought of as maybe that important to businesses as they grow, but it's the community of other artisans and other leaders who are head of these artisan enterprises who are wanting to grow their craft, knowing that they're not in it alone and knowing that it's actually one of, as I mentioned sort of at the top, one of the largest economies globally for women is craft. And so being able to build those connections and
00:11:49
Speaker
learn from one another and be in community with one another is really special. So essentially you get involved with one organization and that has a knock-on effect with other craft organizations in the local area and the sharing of skills and knowledge and it it increases beyond the one organization that you might be working with.
00:12:09
Speaker
Exactly that and I think there's a ah piece of what Ness does that um is really interesting to kind of talk about which is the social compliance work that we do within the craft
Retailers and Ethical Sourcing
00:12:22
Speaker
space. i mean, there are many support organizations and groups that that are involved in craft, but where I think Nest is distinguished is in thinking about that connection between the artisan enterprises and retailers and understanding what retailers need to be able to work with smaller craft producers so that we can really disband that myth that it's niche and unscalable. How do we support those businesses to grow, but also coach and and educate retailers on what it means to work with artisanal producers? How do we,
00:13:00
Speaker
um connect through sourcing opportunities that can scale, that can bring handcrafted product to end consumers, to you and me when we go to the store. And how do we ensure as a retailer, how do they ensure that that product that they're selling through to a customer is ethically produced and that those artisans who are behind the work, whose hands put that piece together, that they're treated fairly, that they're making a fair wage, that They're really visible and in the process. And I think that's a distinction um when we talk about sort of problems to solve where Nest has come in and said, not only is there just a misconceptions about craft, but there are also an important role for someone, us to play in bringing that transparency and that connection between the artist and producer and the business and retailers.
00:13:55
Speaker
Yes, totally get that. It's like we can produce this product that can be shipped to the United States, the UK, Canada, Australia, wherever, and sold.
00:14:07
Speaker
But the Western consumer wants to know that that product has been ethically produced as well. That can sometimes get lost, I suppose, unless you've got someone in the middle to make sure that the The two sides of the process, the producer and the retailer, understand each other's needs and are willing to adapt to make sure that they fulfill each other's needs.
00:14:31
Speaker
That's exactly right. and And when you think about retailers, I mean, there's there are a lot of um money. Money is is an enormous driver and and can derail um ah conversation or um You know, if there are consumers who are pressuring brands for certain social compliance elements, i mean that that speaks too. And so for those retailers who do have vocal commitments to producing ethically made product, that for us, where where where Nest kind of falls in into this sort of mix, we're doing a lot of coaching with those retailers to help them understand, you know, it's not just
00:15:12
Speaker
that you want to say the product is ethically made, but what does that actually mean? Does that mean that, know, where does the wage have to fall for that to be true? What levels of transparency have to be in place and for that to be true? um How do we as a retailer think about um yeah really the details of a transaction like lead times and um purchase, you know, the terms for paying artists and groups? And how do we think about doing this in a way that's not quite at the the scale that you would have with some of the more traditional manufacturing models? So there is a lot of learning on sort of both sides of that equation, that that sort of economic equation to deal with. and And so it's a really fun place to be in the middle of that negotiating growth and and learning on both sides.
00:16:00
Speaker
Yeah, I can imagine. Tell me about your favorite deal that Build a Nest has as brokered and the support that went into both sides of it. It must be ah and an arrangement that you're really proud of. oh there there are many. And i I think what is the most exciting from where we're sitting when we see the success of sort of a broker deal is that on the one side, on sort of the producer side, we know that what this means is that there are individuals at the end of this, at the very end of our global supply chains that are creating, you know, in their living room or in their sort of home or under ah tree in their community, they are creating the baskets that we then put in our living or family rooms.
00:16:46
Speaker
Those individuals are being paid fairly. There's a clear documentation of their employment that that is very clear and documented and visible and that that income is there and sustained. And so it's those relationships where there's ongoing investment in particular communities or with particular artisan groups that think are the most worth celebrating. They're not sort of these one-off collaborations that might create a vacuum in their communities
00:17:24
Speaker
wake where you have and a large investment of um of employment and economic sort of excitement in a place and then that that relationship sort of fizzles out.
00:17:37
Speaker
but An example of that not happening, I think, is with um one of our really lovely partners, Williams-Sonoma Inc. They have a family of brands. Some of those might be better well-known in the the U.S., s but Williams-Sonoma...
00:17:51
Speaker
West Elm, those sort of Williams Sonoma Inc has made a very public commitment over several years to purchasing through Nest ethically handcrafted product. And so we sort of certify that.
00:18:05
Speaker
What sort of shop is um Wilson Sonoma? Williams-Sonoma, they're a kitchen and home shop, West Elm's similar. um if you were to want to go outfit your ah new family room or get Williams-Sonoma, if you wanted a new set of dishware and kitchenware, you might go to Williams-Sonoma West Elm. And if you were looking for furniture and decor, blankets, throws, mirrors, um anything to sort of outfit your home.
00:18:33
Speaker
And so those are, you know, when we think about craft production, all of that kind of falls in. You may not realize it, but there's ceramics there. There's woodworking. If you think of hand-carved mirrors, you might find at a store, hand-woven baskets often come to mind, but throws, blankets, things that have been hand-dyed and woven on a loom um or a backstrap loom. There are many different techniques that all have elements of handcraft incorporated. And so When you have a brand like that, with a family of brands underneath them, commit to really large amounts of money. That purchasing power is so big.
00:19:13
Speaker
To be able to have that commitment to, over time, continually source artisanal product from artists and vendors, that's what you aim for. Because that investment then is ongoing.
00:19:28
Speaker
It's deep. It's sustained. um And that's really where the magic is. Yes, I can, I can see that. One of the things that comes to mind is that with my ah HR professionals hat on is that if I give you a job in a factory, the chances are that you'll be involved in one stage of that production process.
00:19:49
Speaker
And you've got a job. You'll be trained to do that job. If you are a craftsperson, the chances are that you'll be involved in the whole production cycle of that particular product.
00:20:05
Speaker
And in order to do that, I need to train you in order to do it. you You need skills, you need knowledge, and I need to give those to you. So you'll probably do something like an apprenticeship.
00:20:16
Speaker
So although there can be lots of celebrations about the opening of a factory in and a country that may not have many conventional type factories, the work that you're doing I imagine, allows people to stay in their communities, whereas factories demand that people travel to the factory.
Crafting Community Stability and Security
00:20:38
Speaker
And it also provides them with skills, which mean they have not just a job, but but a career. they stay in their communities rather than moving to industrial centers.
00:20:52
Speaker
So it's not just that you're providing conduit between producer and retailer, It sounds to me as if you may also be giving communities the long-term security to remain communities.
00:21:09
Speaker
That's exactly right, Michael. Many, many craft producers are women. They have families. They have um responsibilities in the home and and within their communities that they're answerable to. And and taking a woman away from her home for work in a factory in ah an urban area you know That's a reality that a lot of, and that's a choice that a lot of women have to to make and craft if it can be leveraged as an economic driver for you and your family. And you can do that at home. I mean, that answers a lot of the anxiety and the childcare questions. And there's so many impacts that that has on children's education. and You know, you can sort of name something and and having a a woman home and able to both
00:21:58
Speaker
care for her family and be responsible there, but also bring in revenue. is It's just a really wonderful thing. And the safety too, as well, for women who are staying in their communities, the there's a lot of data and terrible stories about sort of the safety and the exposure that women have traveling back and forth or staying in the city, the urban area in so that they can work on during the week and coming home on the weekends. And there's just a lot of other variables that make that a really unsafe situation for for women. And if we can, you know, use craft as a form of employment at home, it's it's really a win for for everyone. And I think that is, there was a lot of learning for NEST as we were developing our ethical handcraft program. And that really is
00:22:47
Speaker
If you think about a factory um and sort of understanding what production happens inside a factory, there are very strict protocols for what happens. Very specific rules. You can sort of take a clipboard and you can tick boxes as you move down through that list of criteria for what has to to be true for that factory to pass inspection and pass the compliance requirements.
00:23:13
Speaker
It's really different when you walk outside of the four-walled factory and you are in someone's home or in their ah community center in a village very far away from that um factory. And what does compliance look like?
00:23:26
Speaker
What does it mean to produce at home when you have a lot of other variables at play? what does it How do you even audit against that when the producers that you're working with have never gone through a formal audit? So there is a lot of learning in terms of how we as an organization chose to structure the program, we did it in partnership with brands and retailers, because that pull through to purchase is really important. We needed to understand what their needs were, but we also needed to work with the artists and producers and think about training and what does that mean? And what does that look like? So that it's clear what the expectations are to be considered ethically produced.
00:24:07
Speaker
It sounds very simple to be working from home. Many, many people across the West are very eager to do it since the pandemic and facing all sorts of issues.
00:24:18
Speaker
But at the same time, these people who may be in an African country or an Asian country, South American country, Or someone in the United States who finds it difficult to get to a center of work and it lives remotely, ah having to face exactly those same, what many people call the middle class issues of wanting to work from home.
Global Craft Challenges and Networks
00:24:41
Speaker
people who are craftspeople have to face exactly the same issues. There is an increasing number of connections between the different ways in which people work. And it's it's enlightening, I suppose, or like one of those light bulb moments that regardless of how much money we have or where we are in the world,
00:24:58
Speaker
work is very similar. The issues, the challenges that we face are very similar. You can be in New York, you can be in a village in Tanzania, Kenya, Uganda, and you'll face exactly the same type of issues.
00:25:12
Speaker
It is true. And even the the sort of dimensions of what we what we look at when we're thinking about social compliance for craft, they're the same things. We want to make sure that you know I want to make sure that where I work, I'm being paid fairly. I'm working in safe conditions. I'm being treated well by others.
00:25:30
Speaker
That there are logistics to kind of overcome if I'm working from home traveling to a co call it a co-working space or a central workshop um to work together with others to produce what it is that we produce. And so, yeah, I would say there are a lot of similarities.
00:25:48
Speaker
Formality is that maybe when we're entering a new community or we're working um with that community to identify the artisan production that's happening there. um Those are the conversations. What tell us about production? What happens? Let us understand um what this looks like. and And there might already be process in place for doing that very safely and transparently. um And so it's it's a learning for for us as Nest as well, um working with the community as well as sort of the training going the other way.
00:26:18
Speaker
How do you find the craftspeople to to work with? Oh, well, right now we have about 3,000 artists and enterprises in our network. We call it the Nest Guild. It's sort of ah a free membership group, but we have about 3,000 businesses that we have identified across over 125 countries. to be honest, often it's it's organic.
00:26:44
Speaker
wasn't That wasn't the answer I was expecting. to yeah
00:26:49
Speaker
To say that you have that many companies that you're engaging with on some level or another across that number of countries is, I'm astounded. i really am.
00:27:02
Speaker
It's an honor, honestly, to to work with that. And that's, i mean, Think about all of the different types of crafts that can be represented yes in those numbers. I mean, it is, think of something and and it's represented in this guild of of just incredible, really um wonderful artisan leaders who are representing millions of artisan producers um through their businesses.
00:27:27
Speaker
it's amazing what you're doing. I mean, what does the future hold now? what but What does
Consumer Interest in Ethical Products
00:27:32
Speaker
the future look like? Oh, I i think the future, there is there is increasing, i think, conversation and pressure on by consumers to understand where their products are coming from. It's sort of ah a conscious consumerism that we've talked about for a long, long time. But I think they're um is some weight behind that, um increasingly so now. Yeah, it's like people want to know the story of the product that they're buying. They do.
00:28:01
Speaker
And and that it's that it's a good story, um that it's a verified story. And so I think I'm i'm hopeful that that we'll have a future where, um as you have retailers like a Williams-Sonoma Inc. and and their family of brands making commitments, multi, you know, 50 million dollars and more of of commitment toward purchasing ethically produced product and being able to story tell about the person who made that basket that's sitting in the corner of your office right now, holding, you know, maybe the, um, a blanket or something that was hand-woven.
00:28:41
Speaker
Um, you'll start to acknowledge and realize that there's someone and a family behind that someone and a community behind that family that has, um, that that you are supporting with that purchase. And so being able to feel confident and comfortable and as a consumer and then also as a retailer answering to that sort of demand, that's That's where I hope we're heading and where I think we're heading. Yeah, sounds great.
00:29:06
Speaker
You know, there's so many different things that we could talk about in this area. it's It's such an interesting and exciting thing to be doing. I'm quite envious of your job. But for today, Lindsay, thank you very much for helping me make such a very interesting episode of The Independent
Connecting with Guests through Matchmaker.fm
00:29:23
Speaker
Minds. Oh, it was my pleasure. Thank you, Michael.
00:29:26
Speaker
Thank you. I am Michael Millward, the Managing Director of Abbasida, and I have been having a conversation with the independent mind, Lindsay Strzok from buildernest.org.
00:29:39
Speaker
You can find out more about both of us at abbasida.co.uk. There's a link in the description. I must remember to thank the team at matchmaker.fm for introducing me to Lindsay.
00:29:50
Speaker
If you are a podcaster looking for interesting guests, or if like Lindsay, you have something very interesting to say, matchmaker.fm is where matches of great hosts and great guests are made.
00:30:04
Speaker
There is a link to matchmaker.fm and an offer code in the description. If you're listening to the independent minds on your smartphone in the United Kingdom, you may like to know that 3.0 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data.
00:30:19
Speaker
So listening on 3.0 means you can wave goodbye to buffering. There is a link in the description that will take you to more information about business and personal telecom solutions from 3.0 and the special offers available when you quote my referral code.
00:30:35
Speaker
The description also includes links to all of the websites that have been mentioned in this episode of The Independent Minds, which means that description is well worth reading. I'm sure you will have enjoyed this episode of The Independent Minds, so please give it a like and download it so that you can listen anytime, anywhere.
00:30:53
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. Remember, the aim of all the podcasts produced by Abysida is not to tell you what to think, but we do hope to make you think. Until the next episode of The Independent Minds, thank you for listening and goodbye.