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Amber Bites Big with Cindy Gallop, Founder & CEO of Make Love, Not Porn
23 Plays3 days ago
If there's one woman who has built an entire career on not giving a damn what anyone thinks, it's Cindy Gallop.
In this episode of BITE BIG, Amber Bonney goes head-to-head with one of the most fearless, sharp-tongued and unapologetically disruptive forces in global advertising and tech. Cindy Gallop studied literature, built a powerhouse advertising agency in New York, worked on iconic brands including Ray-Ban and Coca-Cola, and then walked away from all of it to build something the industry had never seen before: MakeLoveNotPorn, a platform designed to end rape culture by role-modelling what real, consensual, communicative sex actually looks like.
Seventeen years in, Cindy is still fighting against algorithmic suppression, investor conservatism, and a financial infrastructure that punishes "adult content" regardless of its mission. She's now also launching MakeLoveNotPorn.academy: a global aggregator for sex education content that is being blocked, censored and de-platformed everywhere else. She calls it, deliberately, the Google of sex ed.
This is not a polished corporate story. This is a woman who will tell you that women are over-mentored and underfunded, that the only way to live your life is to not give a damn, and that "the market of human happiness" is the biggest market of them all and that investors should be funding the fuck out of it.
Cindy also gets into: how the UK campaign "Yes, Sex Please, We're British" is pioneering a national conversation about sex education; why female solidarity on social media is one of the best things to come out of the internet; and what she'd tell any woman who feels invisible at 40.
Buckle up. This one bites big.
Want More?
Listen to the full episode of *BITE BIG* with Cindy Gallop on Spotify or Apple Podcasts.
Follow *The Edison Agency* and *Amber Bonney* for more electric conversations with boss women leading big brands.
GUEST LINKS
Cindy Gallop — LinkedIn
Cindy Gallop — Twitter/X @cindygallop
ORGANISATIONS
MakeLoveNotPorn — Website
MakeLoveNotPorn.academy — Website (early beta)
Yes, Sex Please, We're British — Campaign
Dear Cindy — Substack
AMBER & EDISON
Amber Bonney — Instagram
Amber Bonney — LinkedIn
The Edison Agency — LinkedIn
The Edison Agency — Instagram
CREDITS
Host & ECD – Amber Bonney, The Edison Agency Founder
Producer – Niki Beeston, Group Account Director, The Edison Agency
Marketing – Liz Archer, Head of Operations, The Edison Agency
Social Assets – The Edison Agency
Post Production – Francine Toscano, 17th Street Audio
Recommended
Transcript
Acknowledgment and Introduction
00:00:00
Speaker
On behalf of the Bite Big team, I'd like to acknowledge the traditional owners of the land we are recording on today, the Boon Wurrung people of the Kulin Nation. We recognise that with over 60,000 years of experience, First Peoples of Australia are most definitely the original storytellers, designers and artists this country, and we pay our respect to their elders past, present and emerging.
00:00:30
Speaker
Hello, before we get stuck into this episode of Bite Big, let me tell you a little bit about who the hell I am and why this content is important to me. My name's Amber Bonney and for the past 25 years, I've been reshaping iconic Australian and international brands, helping them stay relevant, get noticed and be remembered in the good kind of way.
00:00:48
Speaker
I'm a passionate feminist and committed to advocating for better representation of women in senior creative and marketing roles, which is why this podcast is proudly brought to you by my business, The Edison Agency.
00:01:00
Speaker
If your brand or organisation needs help aligning your vision to your reputation, then you can find us at www.edison.agency you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Let's get into it.
Cindy Gallop's Journey into Tech Entrepreneurship
00:01:16
Speaker
Hello and welcome to a very special spotlight episode, episode 19 Bite Big, a podcast about boss women leading big. I'm your host, Amber Bonney, founder and CEO of the Edison Agency. And today I'm in conversation with a woman whose LinkedIn profile and Google search index pretty much is the embodiment of this podcast, Biting Big and Chewing Like Hell.
00:01:39
Speaker
This woman is one of my personal heroes. She's forensically sharp and a genuinely disruptive voice in global advertising and tech. A woman who hasn't just built the machine, she's run it, she's deconstructed it, she's abandoned it, and then she spent the last two decades building something that the tech bro oligarchy have been actively trying to kill.
00:01:58
Speaker
I am, of course, talking about the powerhouse that is Cindy Gallop. For anyone who hasn't had the pleasure yet of following Cindy's work, she's an Oxford graduate with 30 plus years in brand building. She's built some of the most watched consumer campaigns in advertising history, founded the US office of BBH Bartle Bogle Hegarty in 1998 and was named Advertising Woman of the Year in the early 2000s.
00:02:20
Speaker
Then in 2005, she walked away from the corner office without a plan and it turned out to be, in her words, the best bloody thing she ever did. What followed were two of the most provocative and purposeful companies in the world.
00:02:33
Speaker
If we ran the world, a micro action platform that became a Harvard Business School case study and make love not porn, pro sex, pro porn, pro knowing the difference, which she launched at a TED talk in 2009 and has now been watched over 2.8 million times. She's also raising All The Sky Holdings, the world's first and only sex tech investment fund, because if the system won't back you, then create a new one.
00:02:58
Speaker
She funded that herself. If I could go on, I would, but it's best we just talk to the woman herself. So have a listen to what Cindy and I talked about on Bite Beak. I would like to welcome Cindy Gallop. Cindy, I've really been looking forward to this conversation and to be honest, somewhat perspiring at the prospect of speaking with a woman with so much power, style and guts as you. So welcome to the Byte Big podcast. Oh, thank you. i I'm thrilled to be here.
00:03:25
Speaker
A little recap. In 2025, you delivered a keynote at South by Southwest London on sex education ending gender violence. And in that same year, were selected for the Kahn's Titanium Lions jury.
00:03:38
Speaker
You received the Leadership Icon Award and the yeah UK Advertising Exports Group. And somewhere between the woman who studied literature, started a successful agency in New York, and and the woman sitting here today, there is a mantra and a mission and a story that I know people are going to be excited to listen to. so let's get this kicked off.
Empowering Women and Overcoming Societal Pressures
00:03:58
Speaker
The premise of this podcast is all around personal mantras and how those mantras influence people.
00:04:03
Speaker
My mantra is bite big and chew like hell. I do feel like you carry the essence of this yourself. I want to talk about your mantra, which is don't give a damn what anyone thinks. And Is this something that built over time or is this something that you have developed with maturity and age?
00:04:21
Speaker
That is absolutely the product of 66 years of life. You know, um I think unfortunately all of us, and especially we as women, are, you know, born into a world where everything around us conspires to make us feel insecure about absolutely everything to do with ourselves.
00:04:39
Speaker
The way we look, the way we talk, the way we dress, nice girls do this, nice girls don't do that. We spend the rest of our lives coming back from that, and some women never do. And so it takes, honestly, I think, the sheer experience of growing older to realize that the only way to live your life is to not give a damn what other people think. And so for me, it was very much a gradual realization over time.
00:05:04
Speaker
Yeah, it does sound like something that feels quite freeing. is that the Is that the case? Oh, my God, absolutely. bloodylutely And is it something that you share with other people? Is this an attitude that you you spread out spread the freedom with?
00:05:19
Speaker
Oh, my gosh. I mean, I certainly try to because fear of what other people will think is the single most paralyzing dynamic in business and in life.
00:05:31
Speaker
You will never own the future for care what other people think. And so even though you know it's taken me growing older to feel that, I very much want to shortcut the process for other women.
00:05:43
Speaker
And so I really encourage everybody to not give a damn what anybody else thinks. Yeah, I feel like passing that on to women before they hit perimenopause is probably something really, really useful to to share. Honestly, honestly passing that on to women in their teens is critically important. If I have an 11-year-old, I'm definitely going to pass that on.
Advertising Industry Insights
00:06:05
Speaker
I want to ask a little bit about your what I'm framing as the view from both sides because you've worked in the world of advertising and consumer goods and you have worked on you know iconic brands like Ray-Ban and Coca-Cola and you're now building something that's actively trying to take down what big commerce has been promoting for a really long time. Do you sort of see your career in two stages, like the advertising exec and now the tech entrepreneur, or do you see as as a seamless transition? Honestly, everything in my life and career has happened by accident. You know, I've never consciously intentionally planned anything. And so i look at my past as just, you know, where life has taken me.
00:06:53
Speaker
But I will say that, um you know, my career background in advertising has been enormously useful for what I do now. Not least because, you know, as I say to people, I've spent 40 years working in the business of getting people to do things that they originally had no intention of doing.
00:07:11
Speaker
And that is a very useful skill. Yeah, I often describe in the in the world that I'm in in, in brand strategy and design, that it's about helping people bridge the gap between where they are and they where they want to go. And then at the advertising end, it's a slightly different sentiment, isn't it?
00:07:30
Speaker
Are there any campaigns that you look back on now that that make you wince a little bit? You know, if you think about how the industry's changed over the last 30 years and especially now what you're doing in the sex tech space, ah there is there anything that you look back on and go, gee, I wish I hadn't worked on that? In my case, the answer is no because i was lucky enough to work at a series of agencies that where I received a very good training in advertising and where, you know, I was encouraged to absolutely speak up and offer my own opinions when it came to shaping the work. And so I can honestly say that I personally never worked on anything that I would be embarrassed to put my name to. Yeah.
00:08:15
Speaker
Wow, I feel like that's rare. Fortunate for you, but I think that there's a lot of people who have an experience not like that. What do you think that is? Well, I always say that my so-called successful advertising career was entirely down to luck. I was lucky on two fronts. The first is that I was lucky because i was never sexually harassed in the way that ended my career.
00:08:38
Speaker
And I was absolutely sexually harassed, but not as happens to so many women, which is harassment, retaliation, managed out of the agency, managed out of the industry. And you know in the context of your question, that is an environment that many, many women live through.
00:08:54
Speaker
That's not the kind of environment where you get to express your own creative opinions and have them shape the work. And then the second reason I was lucky was because i can count on the fingers of one hand the number of female bosses I had in my entire advertising career, two. i virtually always worked for men But I was lucky enough to work for men who saw my potential before I did, actively wanted me to succeed, championed me and gave me every opportunity to do so. And that is not the case for many women in our industry.
00:09:26
Speaker
No, but I suppose lucky for all of us because you've been able to to go on and have great influence on other women, especially so. I'm i'm pleased for millions of women around the world.
Challenging the Male-Dominated Industry
00:09:40
Speaker
I want to ask about, you said that the advertising industry needs to reinvent itself from the core. After 30 years inside that machine, what do you think the industry is still doing wrong or refusing to to look at? It's being run by men.
00:09:58
Speaker
The enormous irony is that the primary target of our industry is women. because we are the primary purchasers and primary interests the purchasers of everything. And yet our industry is still dominated by men.
00:10:12
Speaker
That is very, very wrong. And our industry will not continue to thrive while that is the case. And do you think that because so many women have negative experiences, it's a bit like politics in Australia, for example. If you're a female politician in this country, you have to have incredibly thick skin to tolerate the public backlash and the shenanigans that goes on in Australian politics. Do you think that there's a perception for women in the advertising industry that they avoid to go into that sector specifically for that reason?
00:10:42
Speaker
No, not at all. Because... Advertising is enormously rewarding and fulfilling, as is every creative industry for anybody, male or female.
00:10:52
Speaker
What I'm gratified to see is many more women starting their own agencies. Yes. Because that's what needs to happen Yeah, go out and make it yourself. Yeah, you're definitely the queen of that. You talk a lot publicly about the visibility of older women. mean, I think this is unanimous across all sectors, but especially in design and advertising industry. This sentiment of not giving a damn, you mentioned that that does get better as you get older, it gets easier. Are there any pressures now that you feel that are age-related that haven't dissipated?
00:11:25
Speaker
Nope, none whatsoever. What would you tell people who are younger now that that are feeling that sense of pressure, especially I think for a woman when you're maybe not 30, but as you hit 40 and you start to feel invisible, what are the some of the things that are going to help a female listener think about how they can turn that around?
00:11:44
Speaker
Well, first of all, take it from me, life gets better the older you get. Trust me. So know that there is so much look forward to as you get older. And secondly, who the fuck told you you were invisible?
00:11:58
Speaker
You decide your visibility. Nobody else does. So you should not be feeling invisible because there is no one who should be making you feel that. You can be as visible as you bloody well want to be.
00:12:11
Speaker
Yeah, I think the other component of that is continuing to spread the word amongst each other so that women don't feel like they're in silos. Is that your experience?
00:12:22
Speaker
Well, I think the great thing about the world we live in today, um and and by the way, there are many negative ah dynamics around social media, but the great thing about social media is female solidarity because today women are able to see so many other women absolutely You know, burning down the patriarchy, living their lives out loud, you know, completely changing all of this. And that is so much more visible because of social media.
00:12:50
Speaker
So, no, I think I think, you know, women have every opportunity to be inspired. to live the life they want to live because all around them they can see so many other women doing precisely that. Yeah. One of the big challenges that I find with women in business, there's a a woman called Michelle Redfern in Australia, big feminist advocate. She's a a business consultant that creates change. She's worked in the corporate sector for a long time. And she talks about this challenge around women's networking and she believes that women should be thinking about networking as business and be asking for what they need from each other rather than being afraid or conditioned that networking is really about social, you know, socialising and not demanding or asking very frankly.
00:13:37
Speaker
what you want. Do you think, because I think there is a gap in senior leadership or if you're running a business, there is a bit of a gap or a fear from women that I speak to around asking for what they need that that actually converts to a commercial deal versus lots of networking, lots of coffees, lots of catch-ups. Do you have any advice about
Networking with Purpose
00:13:58
Speaker
that?
00:13:58
Speaker
um Yeah, because what the hell is the point of networking without making an ask? Yeah. you know You're not there to just chit-chat and make new friends. no um Inherent in the concept networking is you are there to make the business outcomes that you want to have and By the way, that's something that men know perfectly well. yeah and Honestly, i have not encountered that being a huge issue with women. i mean you know i go regularly to women's events, you know networking things. i I see women absolutely going after what they want and what they need.
00:14:29
Speaker
I don't see anyone sort of, you know, not realizing that that is that is something that we all need to do. I don't think that's an issue. I think i think women absolutely know that that to get on, you know, they've got to ask what they need. And and the great thing is you ask and you offer.
00:14:44
Speaker
You go, this is what I need and now what can i do for you? Yeah. One of the things I love about your content and attitude is this sense of just blowing shit up. I think when I first came across your LinkedIn that says you're the Michael Bay of advertising, I thought that was just a very brilliant turn of phrase and also ah a flip on its head from the pat patriarchy especially.
00:15:07
Speaker
If you stripped away everything, so the the awards and the followers and their commercial success, what is the one thing in your career you want to hang your hat on? um Honestly, i don't hang my hat anywhere because I'm still going. You know, I mean, i mean as far as I'm concerned, um you know, I'm working very hard to make my business Make Love Not Porn a success. yeah It's been 17 now.
00:15:35
Speaker
seventeen years And because of all the battles I fight, the fact that I can't raise funding for a sex tech venture, you know, we are nowhere near where I want my business to be, where I envisaged it when I started it.
00:15:47
Speaker
So I'm not even looking back at anything yet. The hat stand is full. Well, let's talk about, i suppose, some of the challenges you're having now, but the sentiment ah for anyone who isn't familiar with Make Love Not Porn. What is it that you're trying to do that's so important to you? Sure.
Ending Rape Culture through Make Love Not Porn
00:16:05
Speaker
So um our mission at Make Love Not Porn is to help end rape culture globally.
00:16:09
Speaker
And that may sound like a very big mission, but we have 14 years of proof of concept at a micro level. At Make Love Not Porn, we help end rape culture by doing something very simple that nevertheless nobody anywhere else is doing.
00:16:25
Speaker
We show you how wonderful great consensual communicative sex is in the real world. Our social sex videos on Make Love Not Porn role model good sexual values and good sexual behavior.
00:16:39
Speaker
And here's the important part. We make all of that aspirational. versus what you see in porn and popular culture. One young man wrote to us saying, your website makes me want to have sex in a more grown up, honest and respectful way.
00:16:55
Speaker
Another man left a comment saying, this video makes want to be a better man in the bedroom and in life. We can achieve that. And imagine with funding how we could achieve that at scale to help end rape culture globally. And rape culture is the single biggest thing holding women and girls back and destroying their lives worldwide. So I'm tackling something very, very fundamental in a way that nobody else is tackling it. And I think that's something that, you know, investors should be funding the fuck out of. yeah
00:17:28
Speaker
Our industry should be supporting with paid brand partnerships and, You know, everybody should be subscribing to who wants to see rape culture end. Now, obviously, by the way, there are people who don't, which is also part of the battle. It serves lots of people. Yep. Yep. No, no, exactly. But but especially, you know, to women worldwide and to female investors, I need that support to to be able to fulfil our ultimate mission.
00:17:56
Speaker
I see that you're doing some work in the UK with government and the education sector. Is that a program you're looking to amplify globally? so it's very exciting. So the amazing Samantha Niblett in the UK, who is the MP for South Derbyshire, and I have partnered on a campaign designed to get the whole of Britain talking about sex openly, honestly, healthily and educationally.
00:18:22
Speaker
in order to integrate lifelong sex education into the UK systemically and culturally. So Samantha has proposed a debate in parliament, which has been approved, on the importance of lifelong sex education, which will happen in early fall, um after the summer.
00:18:39
Speaker
And between now and then, we are running this campaign that we call Yes, Sex Please, We're British, which is a play on the old play and film, No Sex Please, We're British. because we want Britons to take national pride in being open about sex and embracing sex education. We're in the information gathering stage. We've asked everyone to email us at education at yessexpleaseabritish.com, telling us you know what they're doing about sex education, what they wish they'd had, what they want to see.
00:19:10
Speaker
And what is interesting about that is that I think Britain has an opportunity to pioneer a radical model of approach in this scenario that then other countries can absolutely look at, emulate and implement themselves. And so our hope is that, you know, um and obviously it's a very big task, but I hope is that, you know, and by the end of the year, we will have roadmap of how you can engage an entire nation in wanting to be more open and healthy around sex.
00:19:43
Speaker
Well, certainly the UK, a highly conservative culture by nature, or have traditionally been. So I think if you can crack the UK, certainly there might be other markets where the prototype can be rolled out. Well, i'll tell you what's interesting about the UK, um speaking as a British person myself, we have a long tradition and heritage of humour and levity around sex. Now,
00:20:09
Speaker
that absolutely masks you know all the usual shame, guilt, and embarrassment. But we have a tradition of seaside comedians, carry-on movies, you know pantomimes, doublon tons.
00:20:23
Speaker
And you know when I proposed to Samantha that we call our campaign, Yes, Sex, Please, We're British, I said, we have a huge opportunity to flip this, to use humour,
00:20:35
Speaker
to make everyone feel more comfortable with talking about sex, you know, because humour is a great, you know, icebreaker. So we launched our campaign to a ton of media coverage, a lot of it very positive, coming predominantly from women journalists. Yes. Some of it negative coming from male journalists.
00:20:52
Speaker
But what has been very entertaining is that the British media headlines have absolutely trotted out every British joke and you know, catchphrase around sex, you know rumpy, pumpy, knocking boots. you of it's It's been extremely amusing and absolutely proving our point. and so So, for example, a strand of our campaign is we are working with a group of British female comedians who have a campaign against sexual harassment and abuse in stand-up comedy, right which is horrific for female comedians. I know perfectly well it's the same in Australia. Yes. You know, and that is a massive impediment to women in live comedy, being able to pursue careers, being able to succeed. And so we are working with them on a whole dimensionless campaign that's all about bringing female humour to sex to crack this wide open.
00:21:47
Speaker
Wow. Incredible. And so the plan after this prototype is to take that global. What is the US market
Sex Education Advocacy in the UK
00:21:54
Speaker
like? Well, under the current administration, a goddamn fucking nightmare. Yeah. So that's not going to be possible. So that could potentially be taking it to Europe. Well, you know, one of my personal philosophies is I'm all about communication through demonstration. Don't say it, be it, do it, show it.
00:22:11
Speaker
If we can make this work in the UK, other countries will look at it. and take their learnings from it. So they'll do that. Yeah. What are some of the challenges? You talked about funding. What are some of the challenges around funding and how are you using your 30 plus years in advertising to help influence and change that?
Investment Challenges in Sex Tech
00:22:31
Speaker
So I have a very unique challenge when it comes to finding investors and funding because I know that my potential investors are out there and there are a ton of them.
00:22:43
Speaker
And there are ton of them in every single country in the world. i know i have a ton of potential investors in Australia. They are impossible to find by conventional means for because they all have one thing in common.
00:22:56
Speaker
Your willingness to fund Make Love k Not Porn is entirely a function of your personal sexual journey. It's a function of your personal lens on sex and sexuality that's been shaped by own experience of it.
00:23:10
Speaker
And i obviously have no way to research and target for that. yes yeah Not least because sex is the area where you cannot tell from the outside what anybody thinks on the inside. right yeah The people who look like they would totally get it don't. don't yeah The people who look like complete prudes do.
00:23:31
Speaker
And so my strategies had to be I put what I'm doing out there all the time across all my social channels. I do every media interview. I have to make synaptic connections happen.
00:23:41
Speaker
It will attract those investors to me. Long, slow, painful, highly inefficient process. And by the way, if you're an investor and your personal experience of sex and sexuality was negative, there is no rational business argument in this world that will make its way through that.
00:23:59
Speaker
yeah So I have to find the people who get it, and that's the challenge. Yeah. What is the one thing that you would want people to understand about what you're doing that might be a barrier to that?
00:24:14
Speaker
Is there something that's that's misunderstood? You know, what I've been saying for years is Make Love Not Porn operates in the single biggest market of them all.
00:24:26
Speaker
Not sex, not porn, the market of human happiness. And I think people don't fully understand how transformative what we do at Make Love Not Porn is.
00:24:40
Speaker
and how much we could literally change the world if we were funded to scale. I'm surprised that there aren't, you know, you talked about that barrier. Just there are so many very well-funded female billionaires you would think that just women supporting women, for some of these very well-funded people, would enable large chunks of money to to pass hands by virtue of just supporting women in this sector. Do you think it's just the nature of the sector itself?
Gender Differences in Money and Investment
00:25:15
Speaker
No, no, it's it's the nature of the culture around women and money. so So first of all, There are far fewer female billionaires out there than there are male billionaires. Yes. yeah Because we are brought up completely differently.
00:25:32
Speaker
Men are brought up to talk about money, think about money, go out there and earn it, think about investing it. Women are not. Nice skills don't talk about money. Nice skills don't think about money.
00:25:45
Speaker
If you look at the Forbes top female billionaires list they publish every year, the majority of those female billionaires inherited their wealth. They are the wives or the daughters.
00:25:56
Speaker
And secondly, um depressingly, because women are not brought up in that culture of go out and make money and invest and make more, women with a lot of money spend it on philanthropy.
00:26:12
Speaker
They do not think about funding female founders. They think about donating to charities because that, again, is what women are brought up to think about.
00:26:23
Speaker
Yeah, it's socially appropriate. But really I see, a i mean, this podcast is an example of a self-funded initiative for my business. I do see this as philanthropy in a sense that this is helping give women's voices a platform.
00:26:42
Speaker
i'm I'm surprised that that isn't something that women are thinking about, that supporting other women's businesses, even if they're for-profit enterprises, is a form of philanthropy because you are...
00:26:54
Speaker
you're setting that next generation of female entrepreneurship. I mean, women have just not been brought up to think like that, unfortunately. Are you aware of programs that are helping to change that? I know there's certainly some in Australia about the financial literacy and risk-taking early on with girls.
00:27:11
Speaker
Do you know, Amber, I'm fully aware of many programs like that. There are ton over here as well. I get very frustrated with them because they are demonstrable of a particular syndrome that operates for
Funding vs. Mentoring for Women's Success
00:27:23
Speaker
women.
00:27:23
Speaker
in many different areas of our lives. So to give you an example in another area of our lives, have you ever heard the term board ready applied to a man? No.
00:27:38
Speaker
Have you ever heard men's board readiness, readiness to be board directors, questioned? Yet there are 15 million programs designed to help women be board ready. Yes, yeah. Fuck that shit. Okay.
00:27:52
Speaker
So, So equally, women are told that they have to be like mentored and advised and coached in advising. Yeah, they have to do something extra. What men do, go, I like what he's doing, I'm going to write him a check.
00:28:05
Speaker
Write the fucking check. Just write the check. We just need checks. Women are over-mentored and underfunded. Yeah, yeah, the mentoring piece has been a real challenge in that if it doesn't lead to more money and bigger roles, it's it feels like it's just fluffing around the edges. The point is we don't need mentoring.
00:28:27
Speaker
We're just as ready as men. You don't see you vast programs going, let's mentor men to succeed. No. Men, you need more mentoring and coaching to be able to. No one does that to men.
00:28:38
Speaker
We don't need mentoring. We're ready now. It's just we're not given the promotions and we're not written the checks. Yeah, that is true. When I think about the premise of this biting big and chewing like hell, and you are definitely someone that I feel is synonymous with my personal mantra sentiment, what other women ah in your sphere that our listeners may not have heard of are doing this? Who is like biting big and shaking the trees?
00:29:06
Speaker
Oh, way too many. to I mean, I can't even begin to list, you know, um That's why i always say when I'm asked to inspire me, I go every single woman I meet who is determined to change the world her way.
00:29:18
Speaker
And there are a ton of them out there. And what do you think the world looks like if we don't? Well, it's all around us right now. It's fucking depressing. Yeah. We can't imagine another another four years. That seems like a lot.
Embracing Aging and Clarity
00:29:31
Speaker
Has there ever been an experience, Cindy, where you felt like you've bitten off more than you can chew? um Probably tons of times. I just didn't see it like that. Yeah. You know, once you bite something off, you're you're just going to chow down.
00:29:49
Speaker
I want to ask, and I potentially know the answer to this, but if we reflect on the younger version of Cindy, so just pick an age, 16, 20, was the mantra that you have now something that was even thought about at an early age?
00:30:08
Speaker
Oh, God, absolutely not because, as I said earlier, we're all born into complete insecurity about everything to do with ourselves. So, absolutely not. And so the turning point for you was really hitting later in life. im Growing older.
00:30:23
Speaker
Growing older is fantastic. It just it it brings clarity to so many things. Yeah. And so now as a coach, because I know you do a lot of but you do a lot of work in this space, what are the top three things that you that you talk about with women? Well, you know, ah honestly, everybody's case is different. You know, in my personal coaching practice, I coach women and men across a whole range of different industries, different life stages. So everybody's different, you know, and and and i don't I don't have a one-size-fits-all process. so Do you think coaching men is just as important as coaching women?
00:30:59
Speaker
um I coach the people who reach out to me, and which means I coach far more women than men. But what I really appreciate is the men who've reached out to me really need my help and enormously appreciate it when they get it.
00:31:14
Speaker
you know And that's interesting because there are so many men who think they have absolutely nothing to learn from women. Yeah. And do you think they've come to you through Make Love Not Porn?
00:31:24
Speaker
Is that the primary? Because you have a big profile ah elsewhere. um yeah no, I mean, they come on LinkedIn most often. Yeah, i' I've seen a lot of content on LinkedIn around the algorithm piece. Is that something that you're just continuing to push and advocate for? Yeah, I'm continuing to call out algorithmic suppression of women's voices on LinkedIn because LinkedIn has completely refused take notice of the resistance we've been running for the past 18 months and algorithmic suppression is getting worse. It's getting bad for men as well. And so I continue to call it out, but I have no hope that LinkedIn will do anything about it.
00:32:01
Speaker
And why is that? just the um as as As the phrase goes, too big to care. And is that the only platform like that? Are you finding that that is one of the worst culprits? um No, they're all equally shitty. Nobody sees my Facebook posts. you know Nobody sees most of my Instagram posts.
00:32:18
Speaker
Twitter X is a complete shit show. no no they're all equally as bad as each other. How are you going on Substack? Because I know that's, I mean, considered slightly more emerging, but more of a ah writer's platform. And obviously you have the the Dear Cindy. How is Substack going?
00:32:34
Speaker
I can't really speak to that um simply because Dear Cindy is a sideline versus what a lot of people are using Substack for, which is building a business with newsletters and so on. so yeah I'm obviously very happy with the audience I'm building with Dear Cindy and I love the questions I get. um Listeners, do send me your questions to Dear Cindy on Substack. I'll answer a question a week. But, yep, it's, um you know, I'm not dedicating a huge amount of time in the way that other people are to building their Substack presence.
00:33:02
Speaker
Yeah, that's fair enough. Cindy, I have one last question for you around, is there a misconception about the work that you're doing that you want to clear up for people?
00:33:13
Speaker
I don't think there is, really. i mean, I have to tell you, in 17 years, you know, may Love Not Porn has received nothing but a positive response from people all around the world. My only barriers have been business, tech and financial infrastructure ones.
00:33:28
Speaker
The infuriating clause of no adult content shuts me out from so many things. Banned from advertising, you know, banned from using it a ton of infrastructure, you know, why investors won't won't fund me, et cetera, et cetera. But no, I mean, it's interesting. When I meet someone, they ask me what I do. And I say, i have a business called Make Love Not Porn.
00:33:51
Speaker
Even before they know exactly what that business does, they know exactly why it exists. Everybody gets it instantly. yeah Well, I mean, I suppose that's all of your experience in the name says you don't have to do much more explaining, right? It's the perfect brand name if you think of it like that. is It requires no additional no additional explanation, which is amazing. Well, Cindy, I'm so grateful for you coming on the show, not just because personally I've always wanted to have a conversation with you, but I think
00:34:25
Speaker
You are definitely a boss woman who is biting big and I think your mantra will be an inspiration to many people. Just don't give a damn what anyone thinks. I especially loved, I suppose, your sentiment around seeding this idea as young as you possibly can with women, because I think that's going to prevent a lot of challenges with women and young people, certainly from a confidence perspective.
00:34:51
Speaker
I think the sentiment also around you, you mentioned about someone reaching out saying, this can help them be a better man. If we can spread more of that, how wonderful would the world be if we can reduce rape culture? I mean, get it to to zero.
00:35:07
Speaker
As you mentioned, it is one of the the primary things holding women back across, you know, agnostic of of culture or religion, it is one of the biggest problems that we have. So i really hope that your program, your British program that launches this year as the pilot is something that in the next five years we see rolled out both in Australia and and everywhere else. And I want to talk just a little bit about Dear Cindy. So this podcast is produced and made by women. And to show our gratitude, we have donated $500 Australian dollars to your Dear Cindy Stubstack.
00:35:41
Speaker
I saw and I'm so grateful. I'm very moved and very touched. Thank you so much. Oh, you're welcome. I'd like all of our listeners to check out Make Love Not Porn and also check out the Dear Cindy Substack channel because you can support. Is there anything else that you want to talk about just about Dear Cindy or how some of our listeners can support your work? What is the best way that we can do that?
00:36:03
Speaker
Actually, I would love our listeners as well to check out The extension of MakeLoveNotPorn, we've just taken live in very early stage beta, which is MakeLoveNotPorn.academy. And so this is um something that parents and teachers began begging me for from day one of MakeLoveNotPorn.
00:36:20
Speaker
They reached out saying, please, will you build a zero to 18 and beyond sex education extension of what you do? right And so 11 years ago, I came up with the idea for MakeLoveNotPorn Academy as a global aggregator hub.
00:36:35
Speaker
for the best the world's sex education content that is already out there, but is being blocked, censored, and de-platformed everywhere as we speak. And so our mission at Make Love Not Porn Academy is to organize the world's sex education information to make it universally accessible and useful.
00:36:53
Speaker
That is a deliberate paraphrase of Google's original mission statement, organize the world's information to make it universally accessible and useful, because today in this area, Google is not doing that. The algorithm is biased, it's censoring,
00:37:05
Speaker
Parents, teachers tell me they cannot find the resources they need when they search for them. So we're building the Google of sex ed. It's live in very early stage beta. We are real world testing while we bring educators and content on. But I'd love our listeners to go to makelovenotporn.academy, check it out. And if you believe in what I'm doing, do join the academy as a paid member because it's free for everyone to access, but it's a museum model.
00:37:28
Speaker
If you believe in in in our mission, then please support it by becoming a member. All right, well, we will definitely put the link in the show notes and send everyone that we know there. I'll be posting this on LinkedIn as well. Let's see if that gets picked up in the algorithm. Well, thank you, Cindy.
00:37:45
Speaker
This has been an amazing episode. I'm your host, Amber Bonney. And until next episode, I hope you buy big and chew like hell. Thanks, Cindy. It's been a pleasure.