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NIAW Special- Who? Molly O'Brien, Esq.
90 Plays6 months ago
Molly O'Brien, an attorney specializing in art law, shares her journey into the field of surrogacy and egg donation. With grace and compassion, she narrates how her prior experiences in the industry inspired her to pursue a law degree, becoming a passionate advocate for the rights of parents, surrogates, and donors alike. Molly discusses the importance of ethical practices in the surrogacy and egg donation industry and highlights the work of SEEDS (Society of Ethics in Egg Donation and Surrogacy) in setting standards for agencies and industry professionals. She eloquently addresses the ongoing legal landscape, advocating for sustained efforts in legislation to safeguard reproductive rights. The conversation explores the importance of transparency in the surrogacy process and the benefits it brings to all parties involved. Finally, the discussion lovingly emphasizes the importance of assembling a strong support team when selecting industry professionals to collaborate with, ensuring a nurturing environment for all involved in the journey.
Takeaways
- Molly O'Brien's unique background in the surrogacy and egg donation industry informs her work as an attorney specializing in art law.
- Ethical practices and transparency are crucial in the surrogacy and egg donation industry.
- SEEDS (Society of Ethics in Egg Donation and Surrogacy) sets standards for agencies and industry professionals to ensure ethical practices.
- Advocacy and legislation are necessary to protect reproductive rights and paramount for the surrogacy and egg donation industry.
- Transparency is crucial in the surrogacy process, both for intended parents and surrogates.
- Social media provides a supportive community for intended parents and surrogates, but caution should be exercised
- Having a strong support team and listening to one's gut instinct are essential in navigating the surrogacy journey.
- Witnessing successful outcomes and the love shared within the surrogacy community is incredibly rewarding.
Links
Society of Ethics in Egg Donation and Surrogacy
International Fertility Law Group
Spotify
Recommended
Transcript
00:00:00
Speaker
Hi, everyone.
Introduction to Molly O'Brien and Infertility Awareness Week
00:00:01
Speaker
On this special episode for National Infertility Awareness Week, we have the pleasure of getting to hear from fertility law attorney Molly O'Brien.
Molly's Career Beginnings in Surrogacy
00:00:11
Speaker
Molly began working in the field of assisted reproduction technology in 2005 at an egg donation and surrogacy agency, where she became familiar with all aspects of in vitro fertilization, egg donation, and the financial aspects of surrogacy.
Transition to Fertility Law
00:00:26
Speaker
Molly then went on to pursue her law degree and became an attorney in 2011 and is now an art attorney. Since then, she has drafted hundreds of agreements all over the world and has navigated the industry changes, which we get to discuss. And she
Role as President of SEEDS
00:00:44
Speaker
has brought such joy to so many and so much joy has been brought to her as she gets to be a part of making those hopes and dreams come true.
00:00:55
Speaker
Molly is also serving a two-year term as the president of the Society of Ethics in Egg Donation and Surrogacy, or SEEDS, and we get to further dive into the important work and the standards set by SEEDS and how this is vital to anyone thinking about growing their family in this way or becoming a surrogate or egg donor. This was such a wonderful conversation and I can't wait for you to hear from Molly.
Podcast Introduction by Whitney Hall
00:01:20
Speaker
Me, you, and who? Who knew it would take more than two people to have a baby? In a world where infertility is no longer a taboo topic, this podcast will take you through all the different aspects of surrogacy and egg donation through the lens of many who walk this journey in different ways. My name is Whitney Hall, and I am a two-time Surrogate, now turned Surrogacy Coordinator for Egg Donor in Surrogate Solutions, the very agency I used when I chose to carry for two amazing families.
00:01:49
Speaker
With this podcast, it is our goal to help guide and support you as you learn about what it takes to grow a family in an alternative way, as well as hear inspiring and beautiful stories of how this path has changed lives forever. We can't wait for you to hear about just one more way happy families are created every day.
Career Path from Film to Law
00:02:10
Speaker
Hi, Molly. I am so excited. You're here. I am very excited to be here. Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh, it is such a joy and a pleasure. And I really I mean, I'm just so thankful that you were able to work us into your busy day amongst all of just the craziness. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So just to start off, um, you know, we
00:02:32
Speaker
You're an attorney? You're an attorney? And art law, I feel like, is such a niche profession, right? So how did you even get here? It's the best legal job anybody could ever have in mind. I love that. Yes, yes. It's happy stuff. And we're doing, like, putting good into the world. I feel very good about it. So I love that. I love that. It actually worked in the field before becoming an attorney.
00:03:02
Speaker
I worked at a donor agency briefly and then I worked at a surrogacy agency. I feel like that's very unique. I feel like that's a very unique kind of perspective to come from. But yeah, okay, tell me more. So I was working primarily at the surrogacy agency at this point and the owners of the agency came to me and they're like,
00:03:22
Speaker
thought about law school, and I was like 28 years old or 29 years old at the time, like, yeah, who gets themselves into crippling debt in their 30s. And then I'm like, okay. But it was kind of one of those things where I was like, you
00:03:39
Speaker
you know how sometimes you manifest things and you put them into the universe. So like, yes, I was like, all right, let me start investigating this.
Legal Guidance for Surrogacy Parents
00:03:45
Speaker
Let me take the LSAT and I did and it just things just kind of fell into place and they're like they were so kind and I could not have done it without the owners of the agency. So shout out to Bill Handel and Karen Saines you for
00:03:58
Speaker
They basically said you can leave work early every day to go to law school at night and it was great. It was such a good experience too because having already had the basis of working in this field, I knew I wanted to stay in it. I thought to myself, if I could then take what I've learned working at the agency all these years and
00:04:17
Speaker
transform it into getting helping parents in the legal aspects. That gives parents a nice kind of cool perspective from their attorney about what's normal, what's not, and kind of a unique guidance, I think, throughout the process.
00:04:34
Speaker
Absolutely. Absolutely. So to go back even just a step further, how did just the world of egg donation and surrogacy even like come to be in your in your world?
00:04:49
Speaker
also a funny story. So my undergrad degree is in film production. So I went to school to learn how to produce movies. And it's so interesting because I did that for a little bit. And the same skills I learned are what I use now. So budgeting and scheduling a baby. It's like the same. I was working at a film production company in Los Angeles here and we shared an office with
00:05:18
Speaker
an egg donation company that I ended up working for and another law firm. And I kind of was watching, always watching what they were doing. And we were off film project at the time. And I was like, I could use a little bit of extra money, you know? So I didn't need any work done around the office. And so I was doing just some filing of papers and stuff like that at the egg donation agency. And I got a check from a client one day to process. And on the memo line of the check, it said, for our hopes and dreams. And I went,
00:05:47
Speaker
I think this is what I'm supposed to be doing with my life. I think that the path just led me to this. And ever since then, I've completely dedicated my life to helping parents and egg donors and surrogates through this process. And it's been the best decision ever. I absolutely love every minute of what I do every day. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. So, oh, wow.
00:06:09
Speaker
Wow. That, I mean, I just, you're so right though. It's like, it's those little moments and it's so, you know, in, in the seat that I sit in, I feel like you, you, you talk a lot about things and it's big picture stuff. And then you see those, those little memo memo lines and that little picture and you're just like, Oh, there it is. There's that why, right?
00:06:27
Speaker
Just today before our meeting I had a consultation with some clients where I it was first time meeting them But I felt this like connection and I know that with people that you meet in this absolutely And you're just like I want to help you through this and I I know I you you feel like you're finally able to give them the hope They've been looking for
00:06:45
Speaker
And I love that even after, I'm just starting my 21st year helping people in this field. Congratulations. And I was moved to tears and I thought to myself, how cool is it that I can still be moved to tears about how awesome what we get to do is 21 years in.
Advocacy for Reproductive Rights
00:07:00
Speaker
How many people, you know, people burn out in a lot of other things, but this is a constantly renewing pleasure to get to help people. Yeah. Oh, gosh. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
00:07:14
Speaker
How do you feel like coming from that a donation surrogacy background and then going into art law, how do you feel like that's benefited you as an attorney? I feel like I can offer my clients a little bit more backstory. There's so many attorneys out there who do a totally fine job, but all they do is draft a contract and then come as they're done.
00:07:39
Speaker
or draft the surrogacy contract or the surrogacy court order. And then that's really just all they do. But I feel like I'm able to really offer a full guidepost for people. Most of the clients that I help are parents. I do also work with egg donors and surrogates, but primarily parents. So when I say client, that's pretty much referring to that.
00:08:01
Speaker
And I think that the parents really get a good feeling from knowing that there's somebody just kind of looking out for them and supporting them through the whole thing from the sideline. Because the agency is there to help guide them, but you're not with them the whole time as the agency. I might be with them from the start of the IVF process.
00:08:18
Speaker
And then helping them select an agency helping them look at surrogate profiles because that was one of the things i did when i worked at the agency was looking at surrogate profiles so you know how it is you're like brain is totally trained to go through surrogates you know to look for things that could be really beneficial for this match yeah they might want to ask questions about yeah
00:08:38
Speaker
Well, and it's interesting too, you bring up, you know, I think one thing that's so unique about our agency is that we are with them every step of the way from that very beginning till that very last hospital bill is paid and you know, beyond. And so I think it's having, you know, that you as that resource as well, I mean, it takes a team, right? And I think anything to give somebody that support as they're going through something that
00:09:06
Speaker
they've never done before, right? I know what they want. I think that's what a surrogate would want, and that's what the parents would want, is imagine your team around you, your attorney, your doctor, and your agency, and we just kumbaya. We hold hands, and we surround them, and we just kind of guide them through the whole thing. I mean, that's the ideal journey. You don't want people who are just going to do this thing and then disappear.
00:09:28
Speaker
Right. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. So you, you know, like you said, you, you shared, you've been in this industry for 21 years. So I know you have seen a lot and a lot of pivot throughout the years. So, you know, it's coming from kind of that legal aspect, especially I feel like, you know, in the last couple of years, we've had a lot of big things, the, you know,
00:09:51
Speaker
Dobbs decision, recently Alabama. There's a lot of questions I think around kind of the future of third party reproduction and law and things like that. Can you kind of give us, at the time of the recording, it's April of 2024, can you kind of give us an update of
00:10:12
Speaker
where things stands, what that looks like, maybe some of the effects that we're starting to see from that and maybe any comfort that we can give to people as they're still trying to grow their families. I think the comfort can be seen in the influx of states that have passed positive laws. So just Michigan, just recently. Absolutely. Which was one of the places that was like a huge no-go.
00:10:41
Speaker
for years and years and years and years now has a positive surrogacy law. And laws are passed because a legislator presents a law and then people vote for the legislators and these things get passed. That's how that happens, right? But when you look at things like the Dobbs decision, that's not done by the legislator. That's done by a court.
00:11:06
Speaker
And so what I'm saying here is get out and vote because what we do have control over and where we are seeing positive impacts are from the people, the citizens in those states, passing positive laws, passing reproductive rights protections. It's the other part that's being harmful to us. It's the courts overturning these decisions. It's the court in the Alabama thing. It's the Supreme Court.
00:11:36
Speaker
I think the really positive thing we can take from this is that we have a very strong grassroots bunch of people in America who want protections for these things and who want reproductive rights. And contacting your legislators and getting out and voting is the most important thing. And we are seeing positive impacts from it. It is working.
00:12:06
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. Tell me more about kind of what you're seeing. Maybe, you know, obviously Alabama, I know they kind of have the, the governor signed, you know, kind of a, for lack of a better word, I would say like a band-aid, right? Like it's like a, you know, we, things get, can still move forward. It's not, you know, like that kind of thing. But what are some of those positive things that you're seeing legislatively?
00:12:29
Speaker
Yeah. Well, the Michigan law. Right. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:12:56
Speaker
Arizona, Arizona. Yes. Yes. So this, this trigger law now is effective because something else was revealed, right? So this law from the 19, I'm sorry, the 1857 or something like that. Yes. Um, but then the governor comes out and or the attorney general comes out and she goes, I'm not enforcing this. No doctor's going to get sued under this and no woman's going to get sued under this. That's the positive impact that I've seen.
00:13:25
Speaker
One of the greatest things about having looked at this perspective for so long is that the advocacy is so strong out there. One of the biggest things that we've done as a group of people, particularly in the United States, is we are working towards making discussions of reproductive rights, discussions of fertility.
00:13:45
Speaker
far less taboo than they used to be. People didn't talk about this stuff 15 years ago or 20 years ago where they were shamed by it and it's nothing to be shamed of. This is a totally reasonable way to create your family.
00:14:00
Speaker
to create a happy family. Yes. Yes. Oh, thanks girl. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. And you know, I know, um, I know one of the ways that, um, a lot of people can find out more about just, you know, some of those things that are being championed are, you know, if you go to resolve, um, resolve, absolutely. Um, they have a lot, and we will definitely put that in our show notes and seeds, seeds,
00:14:24
Speaker
Ethics has, yes, so for those who don't know, SEEDS is the Society of Ethics in Egg Donation and Surrogacy. And you actually are a member and are going to, or you have started your, to your term as the president.
00:14:40
Speaker
That's correct. Oh my gosh. Okay. Stop. I know exactly what they were thinking. No, I love it. Okay. So for those who don't know what is seeds and you know, just what is seeds? What is that? So he was actually born of a group of agencies that got together who in theory were competitors and they said, we're watching a lot of people who are out there and they're going to make a bad name.
00:15:07
Speaker
because they're doing things that are not ethical, that are not cool, for lack of a better term. And we probably should put something in place because everybody else who works in this field, by the way, has a professional license. Doctors must, lawyers must, an insurance agent must have proper licenses, right? So why not an agency? But on the other hand, you need to also couple that with
00:15:33
Speaker
We don't necessarily want the government to be regulating this because their track record is so good. So shouldn't it come from maybe within? Yeah, absolutely. These agency owners got together more than a decade ago and they decided to develop this
00:15:51
Speaker
concept and I mean the first seeds meetings were maybe 50 people or 60 people and it's grown to the fact where we sell out every single time with several hundred and It's the only reason we're selling out is because the space is too small we can't And it's become a group of primarily agencies but other professionals who are there to talk about the hot button items and
00:16:18
Speaker
to discuss the right way to do things. I don't think there's a single member of the board of directors of SEEDS or the officers team of SEEDS that feels like we want to go in there and tell you what to do or tell you what to think. What we want to do is hear from those who are out in it, what needs to be discussed about, what needs to be worked on. And that's how the SEEDS standards came up.
00:16:46
Speaker
So a group of Everidian Seeds got together and decided that, why don't we come up with some standards for agencies? We don't want to make laws, but we want to make like, hey, if you're going to be a member of Seeds and you're going to be an agency, you should follow these things. Sure. And I believe that the owner of your agency is, you know, on the board of directors. She is, yes, yes. And they came up with really good, reasonable, basic foundations of how to be good to people in this industry. Yeah.
00:17:15
Speaker
And then these were voted on by the entire membership and they passed. So one of the cool things about this year and getting to be the president for the first year of this standards being effective is that this is now when we're in the compliance time period. So agencies that want to be members of SEEDS are going to have to be compliant with the standards. And I think that that's going to be a huge benefit for this industry because
00:17:43
Speaker
particularly with people living abroad. I think sometimes in the US, we forget what a bubble we live in. But this is not normal in other countries. People don't do these things. They don't talk about them. And they look at us like we're selling babies, which obviously we're not. And so having some sort of ethical guidelines for an agency to follow is a lighthouse.
00:18:09
Speaker
for these people in other countries going, okay, they are coming from a good place. They are trying to do the right thing. They're not out there to take advantage of parents. They're there to help people. And I'm hoping that this starts the rumblings to grow into a bigger, more worldwide acceptance of surrogacy because people can go, okay, this agency that I'm going to work with is a SEEDS certified standard agency, whatever it ends up getting called.
00:18:36
Speaker
that gives people some modicum of comfort to know that certain guidelines are going to be followed. I love that. I love that. So kind of going back a little bit. I mean,
00:18:47
Speaker
Like you said, it's not a regulated industry. I
Choosing Ethical Surrogacy Agencies
00:18:51
Speaker
was actually talking to an intended mom a while back and she was talking about that as she just as an intended parent was trying to discern. There's so many agencies out there and a lot of people, especially when you are an intended parent, it's
00:19:10
Speaker
it's such an emotional process and a lot of times you're like time is such a factor it's such a factor and you've gone through so much and so if an agency is telling you we're gonna get you matched in a week you know or we're gonna guarantee you a match like you're you're ready you're moving forward um
00:19:30
Speaker
But you also want to there's so much more involved in that. And and one of the things that she was talking about was because it's not a regulated industry. What are kind of some of those key steps of finding out what makes an agency have
00:19:46
Speaker
good standards because anybody can look awesome online anybody can get fake Yelp reviews anybody can do those things to make them look good and how do you know how do you know what to trust and who to trust and how to go about it
00:20:01
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So maybe, you know, what are kind of some of those key things that I wouldn't say all of the standards and you know, we'll definitely put the seeds website for those who are interested, but what are maybe some of those key standards as you guys were discerning what made sense for kind of that regulation, if you will, or just those good practices?
00:20:24
Speaker
Honesty and transparency is the biggest first thing. I think so many people can be taken advantage of by their agency without certain disclosures being made about the matching, the true identity of the parties, things like that. So we did basic things that I know that you do on a daily basis as an agency, but that other people don't.
00:20:50
Speaker
And if you're just somebody who's deciding to start an agency and this is your first time kind of delving into this, this is also a good guidepost of where to start with how you should operate your business. So it's a lot of business operations. Record keeping, having business insurance. But for me, I feel like the most important thing is the honesty and disclosures that are required in certain documentation. Absolutely.
00:21:18
Speaker
Everybody needs to have the right to fully consent to every part of this process. And when information is withheld, that is when people can later down the road go.
00:21:29
Speaker
Wait, they didn't tell me this. We didn't have a discussion about this. I would not have made that decision if I had known this then. Uh-huh. And from a business standpoint, that's when you can get sued. Mm. Yeah, sure. Sure benefits all sides here, too. Absolutely. Absolutely. So it's so interesting because I feel like social media is kind of that double-edged sword of
00:22:00
Speaker
you can hear everybody's firsthand account of their experience, whether they are a surrogate, an egg donor, an intended parent. You know, a lot of people, like you said, you know, it's definitely not as taboo as it was. I think some, you know, but it's still a sensitive process that not everybody maybe knows somebody or, you know, that's going through it and things like that. And so you're going to kind of that community that has a little bit of anonymity and things like that.
00:22:30
Speaker
What do you feel like is maybe some of the things that you've seen, again, being in the industry for as long as you've been and then sitting in the seat that you're sitting with seeds. What are maybe some of those things that you are seeing over the years when it comes to kind of that social media piece and as people are discerning what those best next steps are for them and how they're gathering that information?
00:22:55
Speaker
Yeah, this is such a good question because it's completely a double-edged sword. I love that we have this as an outlet for a community for intended parents and a community for surrogate moms, because it did not exist before. And people can feel safe to discuss some of the difficult things. People can feel safe to, because not everybody has the support of their own personal community as they go through something like this.
00:23:21
Speaker
And this is a safe, it should be a safe community, a safe space for them. And I love that. And I think it's also helped surrogates advocate for themselves better. I've definitely seen so many more surrogacy agencies and so many more surrogates and so many more surrogacies in the past 10 years than we did 10 years before that. And I
Social Media: Pros and Cons for Surrogacy
00:23:41
Speaker
think that's a wonderful and beautiful thing. And that's just because somebody talked about it to somebody and they said,
00:23:47
Speaker
I wanna help somebody that way. And so I think that that's a really good positive impact it's had. There's some negative impacts too. Because I belong to some of these Facebook pages and I see things and I go, oh boy, oh boy. One of the ones that always just makes me feel a little bit spicy is when I see people say things like,
00:24:12
Speaker
I'm feeling this kind of way. What do you think it is? And somebody will, oh, this is clearly a hematoma, or this is clearly. Oh, sure. It's just, it's, it's just a, not a contraction, you know, but something like that. And when really, you should not be asking medical advice of non-medical professionals.
00:24:33
Speaker
I would just say in general, whether you're a surrogate or not, like just, yeah. I missed my shot by six hours. Should I just go ahead and double up and take two next time? Things like that. And then people will literally answer those questions online. And I'm thinking to myself, holy cow, I'm watching a breach in contract, a breach of contract in real life right now. Because first of all, a surrogate should not be asking those questions of non-medical professionals. And I know that it's in the contract that she should not be doing that.
00:25:01
Speaker
And then following that advice is even more terrifying because that's when things can really go wrong. So I think that's kind of the double-edged sword of it. There's people who've done this many, many times. They've been surrogates more than once, more than twice. And I think they think that they know a lot more than they write, really. And they should not necessarily be dispensing medical advice just because they've been a surrogate three times.
00:25:22
Speaker
Sure. Sure. I mean, all you can do is just give your experience, right? Like, you know, this was what I felt during my journey, but in general, I mean, yeah, every doctor, every clinic, they all have their own secret sauce. Every nurse, like this. I mean, yes, exactly. And so what one, what one journey was is totally different from another. And, um, I always say, I'm like, talk to your nurses.
00:25:45
Speaker
And in our situation, lean on your coordinator, ask those questions because you should ask those questions. You're not expected to know everything. And that going back to what you said, having that team that is surrounding you and is there to support you is so important. And of course, I mean, like you said, having that community is beautiful. But yeah, oh my gosh, you're so right. You're so right.
00:26:10
Speaker
What I'd like to see happen with something like that is, you know, a surrogate poses a question online and the answer is, boy, that doesn't sound right to me. You should go talk to the doctor. You should go talk to your lawyer. Maybe you're not being advocated well because we want people to listen to their instinct because obviously somebody's posing questions because something didn't feel right. And that's good. We should encourage that. Yes. But it's the responses that make me more nervous.
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. No, that's beautiful. That's a beautiful way to put that for sure. For sure. So what would you say, you know, just wearing all the hats that you've worn and you know, the seat that you're sitting in now, what would you say has maybe been some of your just favorite moments about what you do? Okay. I've definitely
Impact of Molly's Work on Families
00:26:54
Speaker
got one. Um, I help a lot of parents that live overseas.
00:27:00
Speaker
And because we are a minority run agency with me being female and my partner is a gay male who's been, had his kids through surrogacy. We have a lot of dads that we help. Obviously we help straight couples too and single people, but we have a lot of gay dads. And I was in France and I hosted a party and invited all the former parents that I had helped in that little city.
00:27:28
Speaker
We had a private get together and I just stood back for a moment and I thought, look at these couples here who all here who now are building relationships with one another. So now they have connections within their town of people who have been through this. And look at all these wonderful children that were born because somebody put so much love out into the world and wanted to do this.
00:27:49
Speaker
It was just such a nice little moment to look back and get to see the positive end result and all the love that was just vibing in that room. The love the parents had for the babies, the love the parents had for the people who were at the beginning part of the process who were in that room. And now they, as parents who have a child, can turn to those people and go,
00:28:11
Speaker
You're gonna be just fine. I was you a year ago. I was you two years ago and I can tell people that until I am blue in the face, but a parent hearing it from a successful parent is the greatest thing to witness in my opinion because you can just see the relief just go right off their faces and go, I can't do this.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yes, yes. Well, and again, just that community. Um, oh my gosh, that must have been just so beautiful. Oh, that must have been so beautiful. It's those little moments because, you know, it is, it's so easy to get overwhelmed by the day to day and, you know, putting out fires and things like that. And then whenever you do, you get to take a minute to sit back and look at just everything. It's like, wow. Wow. We have the best jobs ever.
00:28:58
Speaker
Oh my gosh. Yes. Yes. So I know, um, I know it's not all, you know, happy rainbows and sunshine. There are those kinds of, you know, fires, um, that, that have to be put out and things like that. What would you say is maybe one of the, the harder parts of your job, the, the part that you're kind of like, I really got a pregnancy loss. Yeah. For me, that just, it always hits hard. Um, especially when it's later.
00:29:29
Speaker
I don't know if it happens with you guys too, but it seems to like happen in chunks. I feel like it comes in waves. Yes. And then everything will be really, really good for like six or seven months. And then we'll have like another two and it's just like, and it's so interesting cause like everybody in my office is affected by this. It's like they, cause we get so attached to the parents for helping. You know how it is.
00:29:55
Speaker
And you get the first ultrasound where they have the heartbeat thing. And you're just part of that cheerleading squad. And then to find out six weeks or eight weeks later that something has happened, your heart breaks with them. It really does. But for me, I think it's the late-term pregnancy losses that are any pregnancy loss, but particularly those that are just devastating.
00:30:20
Speaker
Absolutely. No, I could not. I could not agree more. I could not agree more. And I think, you know, just hearing that from you, hearing, you know, just about your office and that cheerleading squad aspect, again, that just reinforces that whole idea of working with individuals that don't see you as a number, that don't see you as just one more person signing a piece of paper or things like that is so, so
00:30:49
Speaker
important to anybody out there who is discerning if this is the best next step for you is you're either wanting to be a surrogate or building your family this way or you know things like that having that and you're gonna know that feeling you're gonna know that feeling whenever you're you're building that team and and that is just so Important and I love that we get to work with you Molly. I love it so much
00:31:12
Speaker
What would you say to any potential intended parent and gestational carrier and egg donor, what would you say is maybe something that
00:31:25
Speaker
they should like a key takeaway or something that they should know, whether it's kind of just thinking about a contract or before they begin the process, what do you feel like is kind of that major thing or maybe just a couple of major things? Transparency. Transparency, absolutely. Transparency. Oh my gosh, what does that mean to you? So it means a couple things, but usually at the beginning part of the process, when a surrogate is looking at which agency she wants to work with, right? There's a lot of agencies out there that use
00:31:52
Speaker
unethical tactics to get targets to apply to their agencies, which is part of what the standards are triggered to help prevent. For example, it would be advertising a certain base fee that is not really the base fee. Oh, interesting.
00:32:11
Speaker
And not explaining that that fee that they're saying you're going to get is actually your base fee, but also all these other things that might or might not be included. Sure. Sure. So for maybe for those who don't know, there's like a base fee, but then a lot of times there's other things like your mileage is reimbursed and there's housekeeping if you're on bed rest and lost wages and childcare. There's so many, there's a breakdown of it. It's not just a lump sum, if you will.
00:32:38
Speaker
So an agency might advertise, make up to $120,000. And I, that's kind of one of those things where it's like, okay, that's not really transparent. You know, it's kind of like, and I think that a lot of people don't know how to look how to filter through that.
00:32:57
Speaker
And that's that can be really challenging because you know, that's those same agencies are advertising to parents like our surrogates are only getting this low fee to get the surrogate and they're they're doing something on the low side to get the parent in and it's just it's I Transparency is the key and so I always would recommend to a surrogate to talk to more than one agency so that you get perspective You know, I think that that's really important. Definitely look at reviews. I
00:33:26
Speaker
Absolutely. Well, and again, there's that, you know, there's that positivity of that social media. There are those review groups that are so helpful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So, and then same for intended parents, what would you say is kind of that key takeaway that as they discern this process, whether it's maybe they're concerned with a contract or, you know, or, or just things like that.
00:33:50
Speaker
I would say make sure that the professionals that you've hired, because the parents are the ones who are the ones hiring the agency and hiring the lawyer and hiring the doctor, make sure that they're taking the time to really explain things to you. I think that parents really have that right, and sometimes they don't always exercise it, and they're just like, oh, well, my agency just told me to trust them.
00:34:14
Speaker
No, if you have a question, it should be answered and explained to you and I don't mind taking an hour going through a contract with parents if they have questions because their questions are legitimate. Absolutely. They need to feel good about this process and I think for both sides,
00:34:31
Speaker
And even us as professionals, our gut instinct is going to drive a lot of the success of things. If something doesn't feel right, it's not going to start feeling better the deeper you get into it. So people should really listen to their gut instinct. And if it doesn't feel like the right lawyer for you or the right doctor or the right agency or the right match, it's okay to stop and say, I need to take a breather. Maybe this isn't right for me. Have a think on it.
00:35:01
Speaker
change your mind because I think a lot of parents are afraid to maybe move forward, break a match with a particular surrogate.
00:35:08
Speaker
because maybe they don't feel great about it because they think long enough to wait another 9 months to get that she's going to cost me a lot more money, I'll just settle for this right that time really yeah, yeah, not a good match for the surrogate it's not a good match for the parents and it's not going to start to feel better for them. And I just I think people need to be willing to sacrifice a little bit of the
00:35:34
Speaker
their wants to move forward quickly for maybe the knowledge that it's okay to have it take a couple months longer if it's going to be that much better for you. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Yes.
00:35:49
Speaker
Well,
Importance of Relationships in Surrogacy
00:35:50
Speaker
and it's so hard. It's so hard, but I think, you know, again, what you said in the beginning, just that transparency, that transparency and an agency is going to take the time to hear you and hear those concerns. And of course, hiccups happen, you know, right? But the goal is they have, they happen all the time. Um, but the goal is that you're, you're feeling good before you even get into
00:36:16
Speaker
Yeah, it's a process. Absolutely. Absolutely. No, that is, that is so good. That is, this is not widgets. As they say in law school, everything used to be like, you know, widgets. And it's like, this is not that this is a human baby. We are trying to all create together. This is a very human process and there will likely be human error along the way. And you just should treat everybody like humans. Yes. Yes. And again, I think that is.
00:36:44
Speaker
such an important key takeaway for anybody in this process. Do not ever feel like you're a number because if you do, that's a red flag. That's a red flag. Yeah. It's so important to have that good team around you. Okay. So my last question for you, Molly, and this is, this is a fun one, um, for anyone who knows me, they know that I have a very codependent relationship with coffee.
00:37:10
Speaker
And
Molly's Daily Inspiration
00:37:11
Speaker
so I always love to ask, what filled your cup this morning? Literally or figuratively, what was the thing that filled your cup? Okay. So I'm going to do both literal and figure it out for you. So I'm also a big coffee junkie and I actually shipped my coffee in from Maine. I will send you the link. So that's coffee in the whole United States. Cause first of all, in America, we don't know how to do coffee.
00:37:36
Speaker
know how to do coffee. Okay. I love this. I love this. Oh, no. Yes, please. Oh my God. I love it. Bring it.
00:37:45
Speaker
When I was in high school, there was this small coffee shop in my hometown, and one of my best friends happened to work there. And there's this blend of coffee that she was actually, post high school, able to track down. And she looked at me maybe 15 years ago, and she's like, hey, by the way, I found, it's called Coffee Express. She's like, I found Coffee Express Coffee. It's being sold out of Maine. And now I literally buy 10 bags at a time and ship it in. So that fills my cup every morning. It's Coffee Express yankee doodle blend.
00:38:12
Speaker
Oh my gosh, this passion. I love this passion. Yes. Very seriously too. I love it. I love it. Oh my gosh. That's amazing. All right. I'm going to have to look this up. Absolutely. And then the figurative one was, was the parents I met with this morning before talking to you. It was just, it was that moment where I was like, I am so glad that I can still be moved to tears in a positive way about getting to help people. And that's just my, my soul went.
00:38:41
Speaker
Hello, it's Friday. Hello, it's a Friday. Oh, I love that. I love that so much, Molly. Oh my gosh. Well, again, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for everything that you do. Thank you for having me. It's so great to get to talk to somebody who's enthusiastic and loves this stuff. You guys are fantastic and I'm honored to be here. Thank you. Oh, thank you.
00:39:04
Speaker
Thank you. I mean, again, we're so grateful for everything that you do with our shared clients. And it is just such an honor to work with you and just, like you said, share that passion, not only just for the good stuff, but also all of the things that we want, all of the good, all of the good that is in there. So thank you, Molly, so much. I so appreciate you.
Closing Remarks and Engagement
00:39:31
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of the Me, You and Who podcast. We appreciate your time and hope you enjoyed our discussion today. As we wrap, we would like to remind you of some of the ways to stay connected with us and be part of the Me, You and Who podcast community. Firstly, if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform.
00:39:54
Speaker
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00:40:15
Speaker
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00:40:35
Speaker
As a friendly reminder, the podcast is made possible by Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions. If you're interested in creating a happy family, visit www.CreateAHappyFamily.com to learn more information. Again, thank you for being part of the me, you, and who community. Your support means the world to us. Until next time, stay curious, stay engaged, and join us next time as we share journeys of creating happy families.