Become a Creator today!Start creating today - Share your story with the world!
Start for free
00:00:00
00:00:01
S3E23 Who?! Creating Safe Spaces: Surrogacy, Support, and Drag Queens with Mike and George
53 Plays12 days ago
Summary
In this episode, Whitney sits down with Mike and George, the inspiring founders of Families Out Loud, a community-centered organization supporting LGBTQ+ individuals, couples, solo parents, and allies on their path to parenthood.
Mike and George open up about their own journey to becoming dads—from the uncertainty of where to begin, to the unexpected challenges they faced on delivery day. Feeling isolated during such a pivotal time, they turned their experience into action—creating Families Out Loud as a space for others to find connection, guidance, and celebration along their own unique paths.
Together, they discuss the importance of inclusive resources, the power of community, and how humor, honesty, and even a little drag sparkle have helped shape their parenting story. You’ll also hear how Egg Donor & Surrogate Solutions is honored to partner with Families Out Loud in this mission, helping support families of all kinds.
This episode is a heartfelt look at what’s possible when personal experience becomes powerful advocacy—and how love and support can make all the difference
Takeaways
-“We had no roadmap.”: Mike and George share what it was like to start their family journey without knowing other gay dads—or where to even begin. That uncertainty was the spark that led to building something bigger than themselves
-Creating what they wish they had: From answering DMs from curious intended parents to designing inclusive events, Families Out Loud was born from a desire to offer clarity, connection, and real support for those navigating similar paths
-Community that feels like family: Their events are warm, welcoming, and full of personality—think expert panels and drag queens. Whether you're seeking serious guidance or just someone who “gets it,” there’s space for every kind of family
-Visibility and access matter: Families Out Loud provides more than inspiration—they offer resources, connections, and even financial grants to help ease the path to parenthood
-No one-size-fits-all: Whether it's navigating NICU challenges, building a support team, or deciding when (or if) to grow your family, Mike and George remind us that every journey is unique—and that’s something worth celebrating
Links
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Families Out Loud
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi everyone. Today's episode is a special one. I'm joined by Mike and George, the passionate founders of families out loud, an incredible organization dedicated to supporting LGBTQ plus individuals, couples, solo parents, and allies through every step of the family building journey.
00:00:20
Speaker
Mike and George's own path to parenthood was filled with uncertainty and unexpected challenges from the overwhelm of not knowing where to begin. to a challenging delivery experience, they deeply felt the weight of navigating this path on their own.
00:00:33
Speaker
Turning their journey into purpose, Families Out Loud creates inclusive, informative, and welcoming spaces where others can find clarity, connection, and community.
Services and Partnerships
00:00:44
Speaker
So whether you're actively pursuing parenthood, just starting to explore your options, or unsure where to begin, their events offer expert guidance from trusted industry professionals on surrogacy,
00:00:55
Speaker
egg donation, legal considerations, and more, all in a space where you can feel seen, celebrated, and supported. We're incredibly proud that Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions is one of the partners in this amazing work, and we're so honored to be part of the community they've built.
00:01:12
Speaker
Their story is filled with heart, humor, and honesty, and yes, even a little bit of drag flair along the way. I can't wait for you to hear their story and learn more about the impact they're making through Families Out Loud.
00:01:26
Speaker
Enjoy. Me, you, and who? Who knew it would take more than two people to have a baby in a world where infertility is no longer a taboo topic.
00:01:38
Speaker
This podcast will take you through all of the different aspects of surrogacy and egg donation through the lens of many who walk this journey in different ways.
Surrogacy and Personal Experiences
00:01:48
Speaker
My name is Whitney Hall and I am a two time surrogate now turned surrogacy coordinator for egg donor and surrogate solutions.
00:01:56
Speaker
the very agency I used when I chose to carry for two amazing families. With this podcast, it is our goal to help guide and support you as you learn about what it takes to grow a family in an alternative way, as well as hear inspiring and beautiful stories of how this path has changed lives forever. We can't wait for you to hear about just one more way happy families are created every day.
00:02:25
Speaker
Well, you guys really thank you so much for joining us and getting to be a part of this. I'm so excited to get to talk to you, Mike and George from Families Out Loud. For our listeners who are just listening and not watching, why don't you guys go ahead and introduce yourselves so they can hear your voices.
00:02:46
Speaker
that even though they're somewhat much similar. um So I'm Mike. um I am one of the co-founders of Families Out Loud and acting as CEO right now. um And so, yeah, that's me. Hi, everybody. I'm George. I'm also with Families news Out Loud, um co-founding with my husband, Mike.
00:03:04
Speaker
um And we also are two dads to two three-year-old twin boys um through IVF and surrogacy. Yes, twin shout out. have twins you're busy Yes, you understand the struggle for sure. Oh, yes. And three, three is a special age.
00:03:21
Speaker
That's such an appropriate way to put it. Yeah, the other everyone warns you about terrible twos, but really it's the threes that you have to watch out for. Yeah, everyone has been saying you have a bunch of three-nagers and that's accurate. Absolutely.
00:03:32
Speaker
No, that's exactly right. That is so right. Oh my gosh. Well, I thank you guys again, just, um you know, for for being here, but to go off of these fabulous little three-year-olds, can you guys like, let's go back before we even get started on Families Out Loud.
00:03:47
Speaker
Can you guys share a little bit about just y'all's journey to parenting?
Challenges in the Surrogacy Journey
00:03:51
Speaker
yeah go for it oh my god you start i'll start again this gives a lot of context of where families out loud even came to be because our journey was actually extremely bumpy um And so we started out not not knowing basically anything about the process. We didn't know what step one was. We didn't know what the the step before step one was. sure absolutely And so um we kind of just were winging it from the very beginning. Yeah. Google was not very helpful.
00:04:21
Speaker
we didn't have any other gay dad friends. We didn't know any other families that looked like but what we wanted. um and so we struggled a lot. But then eventually we went for our surrogacy agency first and and figured that out, which was looking back the wrong first step to make.
00:04:38
Speaker
Or just not like the right order. Not the right way to do it. Sure, sure. But we found that. Then we went for our fertility agency or our clinic. And so we found them. um But basically we went through one surrogate, had a pretty shaky experience mom with that first surrogate, but then got rematched with our surrogate who we now absolutely love and adore, um who we have still have a very great relationship with um as well, and her husband and her kids.
00:05:05
Speaker
um And then our children were born, what, 10 weeks early 30 weeks? Yeah, they were born at 30 weeks. um And they were k NICU babies, but we found out that they were being born the night before their baby shower.
00:05:18
Speaker
um So we had a bunch of friends and families staying the house. And one too many cocktails well. And we were like three sheets to the wind. Excellent. this is how we start off parenthood yeah like yes on the right foot sure And so, you know, we didn't have any baby stuff yet. We didn't know what to expect. We're like, you know, our kids are born being born. We live in New Jersey. Our children were being born in um New Mexico.
00:05:42
Speaker
And so we knew we had to get on a plane, but we had no baby Mind you, it's also like 1.30 in the morning Eastern. And our surrogate was in labor there, which is mountain time, which is like 11.30 p.m. So there was no flights.
00:05:54
Speaker
Our mothers are like hysterical crying with joy and fear and all the emotion. And ripping all their presents open for us. Yes, it's like, here, I've got baby stuff. It's fine. yeah But not realizing that it's the NICU. and like And they're not coming home right away. Not only that, but it's not even like preemie-sized clothing, which is not something that anybody took into account They were born at three pounds each, around three pounds. They were very, very tiny.
00:06:18
Speaker
um And so we got on the next plane at like what, four o'clock in the morning? Yeah. Footnote though. So our children were born in the state of New Mexico, which is where we had our parentage set up, but they had to be airlifted to El Paso Children's, which was the closest level four NICU.
00:06:33
Speaker
So we didn't have parentage rights in the state where our children were now being kept. Right. So our attorney had to get on the phone with a judge and make sure that we had parentage. So we had to wait in the hospital for a few hours before we were actually able to see our children. Yeah, we had an amazing attorney. His name is Rich Vaughn, plugging his name because he is literally- oh they're great.
00:06:55
Speaker
They're great. love Yeah, absolutely. Yes, that whole team, Molly, like, oh my gosh, yes, 100%. And he was really the first person who was like, I'm going to help guide you guys because there really isn't a lot of information out there. And so he's like I'm going to make sure that like,
00:07:09
Speaker
you go through this process the best way possible. Cause he met us kind of after we had really struggled. He met us after all of our bumps and bruises. And so he was there and he really guided us through like the parentage piece. And so we showed up to the hospital, the NICU um in El Paso and they're like, you can't see your kids because they're not, they weren't transferred here in your name. Oh my when um Rich and his team got on the phone with a judge in Texas and then he approved it And so after like three hours of us standing there in the waiting room with our kids, like literally on the other side of the wall, yeah um we got to go in and see them and we had our you know skin to skin and we it was obviously the most magical experience I think of our lives together.
00:07:52
Speaker
Magic with a sprinkle of trauma. yeah It was good. was about to say, yeah, like it's one of the, oh, you guys. I feel like this is like, you find the word chaos in the dictionary and like, this is the picture of it. Yeah.
00:08:07
Speaker
It was definitely chaotic. And so then to add um another level to it, like obviously we couldn't live in el Paso for however long the kids were going to be there. So we flew back. to new jersey and like we spent like two weeks we spent like two weeks there then we would fly home for two weeks then go back for two weeks like in the nico they have to hit all of these different milestones sounds yeah were released and so there's like the car seat test and like all these different things and we had no idea that any of that was gonna have to happen and neither did our families and like our like families ever so graciously they're like not pressuring us but constantly like when are they coming home what's happening was why are they not being released you have to get your kids and
00:08:45
Speaker
It was like we were trying to explain to them how the NICU worked without really knowing how the NICU worked. it was a lot. So we came back after like two weeks. and um and we like hung out here um and then finally like james was ready to be released he was it took him a month to be released our first child he was actually the first born too yeah by five minutes so we went to go we picked him up if he knows that he's gonna hold it over his brother on yeah um as brothers do as he should because yeah anthony is definitely bossing him around yeah
00:09:17
Speaker
but um So we brought James home. And then a month later, we had to go back again and pick up Anthony and bring him back. So we had to take newborns on flights. Mind you, they had just lifted the mask mandate after the pandemic. On airplanes. On airplanes. So there's just...
00:09:33
Speaker
So we were like, obviously, you know, we we weren't like super crazy, like about the mask, because frankly, like wearing it on the plane was like a lot with a newborn. But also like, we were like, we don't care, we'll wear the mask. But of course now everyone's like, oh, thank God I can take this mask off.
00:09:47
Speaker
And ah it was just, it was fraught with a lot of issues. And we were like, just so hovery at that point. And what's so crazy is that we didn't realize how many people want to touch and see and kiss and feel your baby.
00:09:59
Speaker
oh yeah. I was like, everyone we met, and it's very gracious, and I appreciate it, but- Please don't kiss my baby during pandemic. Right, we're in a pandemic. Please don't touch my child. Like, they're also a preemie, and like, what are you doing? What are you actually doing? Well, and it's so funny, because that's like an issue. That was an issue prior to pandemic, and the pandemic, and then post-pandemic. It's like, you guys,
Founding Families Out Loud
00:10:20
Speaker
come on. We like, just had a whole, like, thing. Do you like that remember where we were just a few months ago? Literally just a few months ago. Oh my gosh.
00:10:27
Speaker
You guys, I mean, feel like this is, this is only a glimpse of your story. And I feel like this is just an exact reason why it is so important to build.
00:10:41
Speaker
a trusted team that knows and experienced and they know what they're doing. And, you know, just ah in my head, I'm thinking, cause you know, my, my bread and butter is coordination. So, you know, I, I took people through that surrogacy journey and I'm hearing all this legal stuff and I'm like, wait, why wasn't this on about before?
00:10:59
Speaker
I don't know. I'm just like so many things here where I'm like, If you have the right team, a yeah lot of the – you already are in a crazy chaos situation, but a lot of the extra stuff of sitting for three hours while your kids are on the other side of a wall in a totally, completely different state than you were anticipating would have been right like potentially avoided. Yeah. And I think we didn't know – we don't know what we didn't know, right? How could you?
00:11:22
Speaker
How could you? we were just going along with it we're like okay how do we overcome this obstacle how do we write this and like you know we both do coordination in different ways ah in our in our quote-unquote real jobs um but um you know with that like you know some of the things you could have asked are like well what level nikki was this hospital we didn't know to ask that and like in the event in the now that we know like likely event that our children were born be born prematurely, will it be able to support what's the backup plan so that we could have to your exact point, Whitney prepared for this and our, our, um, surrogacy agency didn't secure insurance for us and asked us to pay out of pocket. Right. Well, they were supposed to have secured an ACA policy for us and then never actually secured the ACA policy for us.
00:12:07
Speaker
Mind you, they no longer exist. yeah like it's um It's okay. so They are no longer for anyone listening. They can't know anybody i can't hurt anyone else. but But those problems ah could happen with other agencies and it's always good to have a trusted your point, exactly.
00:12:21
Speaker
And that's why, not to start talking about it prematurely, but like families out loud, the whole reason why we even wanted to create it was to bring trusted vetted partners to the table for individuals such as ourselves who walked into a room or a space and were like, I know nothing and no
Event Atmosphere and Inclusivity
00:12:40
Speaker
one. And i just want to meet people who literally have my best interests at heart. And that's why when we met Katie and a donor and surrogate solutions, it was just kind of like kismet because we were like, oh my gosh, there are people you're so lovely. You care about your intended parents. You care about your donors. You care about your surrogates. You care about your outcomes. And like, that's what's important, right? Like that's what makes sense.
00:13:04
Speaker
And to take a step back, Mike also, um, after we had our kids, um Mike started working at um another agency. And so he also started learning about like all the right ways to do this. Right. like No right or wrong way, but like correct, like normal pathway for this to happen. And so yeah we started getting like, we kind of got like angry first. We were angry because we're like, wait a second.
00:13:25
Speaker
there was We could have done it this way, this way, this way, and avoided all of this stuff. So knowing what we mean then, you know, and so um that's where we started. People started asking us questions on Instagram, right? We started getting DMs like, oh, how did you guys know where to start? Like, what this?
00:13:39
Speaker
do you think about this? And so we started just answering people and like, we wanted to start spreading messages. the the best information to people because we didn't have that. And so we're like, let's give this to other people. And then we started thinking about, well, how can we do this on a larger scale where we're not just like DMing people back and we can like share it and like, you know, spread spread it more broadly. and so that's where Families Out Loud really came from.
00:14:02
Speaker
And we also like drag queens, so we'll get into that too. Yeah. Absolutely. It's a wonderful idea born out of trauma as we talk about. Yeah, for sure. Well, again, I mean, I think it just, I mean, to your point, right?
00:14:14
Speaker
Like you're, when you guys were first starting, so before trauma, when you guys were first starting, you go to Google and you're just overwhelmed. And I have talked to so many people who have had such similar experiences of either they, you you know, did get looped in with an agency and they had no idea that, hey, there's actually this whole like ethical standard like thing called, you know, seeds. And if your agency isn't part of that, you might want to rethink. Or they they did go, well, we know we need egg donor, but we're going to go get a surrogate first, not realizing that, hey, let's flip flop those steps. And here's why. And just all of those little nuanced things, you don't find those on Google because you don't know what questions to ask.
00:14:57
Speaker
totally no and that's what's so great about like when you go to families out loud if you have no idea what you're doing you can go there and every single person that's a part of the journey that's supposed to be a part of your journey is there they have a table there so you're like literally walking around the room and you're meeting every single person that needs to be a part of your journey and that's what's so great because sometimes like there's events where we go and it's so overwhelming because you don't know what the purpose is you don't know like who's there what they're there for what i need like we try to bridge that gap by having everyone in the same room yeah and also making it conversational so it's like very approachable um and it feels much more like an intimate personal conversation rather than like being sold a million different times i agree and i think like what um it's just it's just overwhelming is the right word right and i think that we want our events to be
00:15:50
Speaker
warm and welcoming and comforting and for all walks of life, right? Like, yes, we're a gay couple. Yes, we're a same sex couple, but we want to support everyone, right? So in my capacity, so I work for San Diego Fertility Center on the outreach team.
00:16:05
Speaker
And I literally speak with just about every single intended parent in the United States and Canada who goes to SCFC. And what's great about my position is that I speak with everybody, right? So I speak with single individuals, I speak with heterosexual couples, transgendered individuals, every walk of life that you could potentially imagine. And so much of the feedback that I hear is like, there's no place for me to go, right? That I feel comfortable.
00:16:31
Speaker
And especially so many intended mothers and women that I speak to, right? And it resonates with me so much because so many of these women have such similar stories, but they're not talking to one another, right? Like so many so many of these women have, to it seems like the theme is trauma, but trauma, or like serious, right? Like it seems like a lot of bad but true.
00:16:52
Speaker
And they've gone through so much. And now they're at this point where they've been through a lot of mental health providers and whatnot to get to the place that they are to even have the conversation with me. Absolutely. And like, how impactful would it be to be able to be in a space where they can meet and speak with other women who are having very similar experiences to them and be able to share that and share that with other
Navigating Fertility and Surrogacy
00:17:15
Speaker
providers? And also other men who have surrogates that are going through the same problems sometimes, you know? and And I think that just like providing access to that space is so important and also making it less taboo to talk about because the space feels so safe, feels so inviting. There's like, there's drag queens there, there's just people, there's heterosexual, homosexual, like any any person can be there. And so it feels like a safe and welcoming space yeah to talk about it openly because everyone's there to literally talk about it too. yeah
00:17:44
Speaker
And like, I certainly don't want to get political on this podcast at all. But what I do want to say is that it's clear that reproduction is on the topic, right, of everyone's minds in the United States.
00:17:55
Speaker
And, you know, when you're thinking about that, we you absolutely have to think about this world. And it's it's providers such as yourselves, it's providers such as ourselves, who are going to shape this entire community. And let's do it in the right way, in the most loving, caring, and supportive way that we possibly can.
00:18:14
Speaker
Because it definitely has ah certain ick factor to it for some people if it's not done the right way. yeah um we could feel greedy or overbearing at times. And that is certainly not what we want anyone's experience with this world to be.
00:18:29
Speaker
it's supposed to be a place that you can lean your head on someone's shoulder and be like okay like i i'll need you help me like do this and that's the way we view it not only with families out loud but even just as individuals as a couple who are dads like i think that that's how we think about the entire process for everyone 100 i think one of the things that i just first of all all of that is just said so beautifully and i one of the the major anchors that you kept referring to was this idea of safety and comfortability and community.
00:19:03
Speaker
and I think especially in, you know, you're you're pointing out, you know, women who have gone through, you know, trauma. And then of course the LGBTQ plus community and i mean, comfortability across the board, right? Whenever you're thinking, i mean, I was talking to you, was speaking to a physician and just thinking about when you're walking into a fertility clinic and you're filling in applications, does that application or, you know, does that intake paperwork say, you know,
00:19:34
Speaker
mom and dad, or does it say individually? Like just those types of things and being conscientious of them and having, being directed to providers where that's not necessarily one more hurdle that you're going to have to go over. I feel like it's so important.
00:19:52
Speaker
So for the, Families Out Loud, what do you think kind of you know sets you guys apart? Because you have, like you said, you alluded to, I think, George, you had said you had been to some of these other you know kind of convention-type you know, situations and it can feel overwhelming and that ick factor and salesy and, you know, and you're also just like, I don't even know where to go.
00:20:18
Speaker
What sets you guys apart from from that? And please talk about the drag queens itself. Yeah, I mean, so we can start where you can start with a drag queen for sure. we love them Yeah, because we love them. um We just feel like having a drag queen or drag queens, because there's always going to be multiple, it already sets up the space to be like safe and making it fun and lighter.
00:20:40
Speaker
And you know ah some of the some of the different um places, not not to talk badly about any other organization, because every organization that's doing something for this this in this space is valuable and that's absolutely necessary in some capacity.
00:20:53
Speaker
um But we just wanted to make it fun and like lighthearted. and like that's a whole the whole piece about safety and like getting rid of this taboo. That's really where the drag queens come into play for us.
00:21:05
Speaker
um And then also, what was the other thing we were mentioning before about um Film Maze Out Loud? And like having like a trusted group um that we know all these people, everyone that's there, we know personally. Right.
00:21:16
Speaker
um and our biggest um you know thing that we wanted to make sure Families Out Loud did was provide trusted partners. And so that's that's who you will meet are people that we personally are invested in yeah and who are also personally invested in Families Out Loud. And that was really important to us too.
00:21:35
Speaker
And I think to go deeper on the drag queen conversation, it's not just because they're amazing individuals and that they have their own story, right? Yeah, absolutely. Whether it's with reproduction or why they even do the art of drag and why they've even come to that. Outside of that,
00:21:51
Speaker
There's just something that's so impactful. And I think there's something amazing about a drag queen that allows someone's, like these from shoulders up here to just kind of relax for a minute and like not let your guard down, but be able to calm, like breathe into a space, right? And we have a drag queen on every single one of our panels now.
00:22:10
Speaker
And we find that so impactful. So because there's something that can just feel so clinical about like DS with like a bunch of panelists and they're just sitting up there with their hands crossed. Right. And they're like, this is what I present. on And like, it's just different.
00:22:24
Speaker
Right. And what we want is more interaction. So it's a drag queen asking a physician a question. asking a program director a question, right? A mental health professional a question on the world and then opening up to the audience and saying like, hey, like, what do you think? And, you know, and when someone who was a quote unquote professional in this world does that,
00:22:45
Speaker
It almost it almost well, it it doesn't make it feel as accessible. But when you have a super famous drag queen from RuPaul's Drag Race being like, what do you all think about this?
Financial Assistance and Resources
00:22:54
Speaker
It's very people are going to be like, oh, actually, yeah. You know, I think it just, again, disarming, but also welcoming and just more inclusive.
00:23:03
Speaker
Yeah. The other thing that Famous Out Loud is doing, and we'll be doing this at the New York event. um on the Yes, at the time. So yes, sorry. And I don't mean to i don't mean to interrupt you. so yeah we So again, going going back just a touch, we Katie, our executive director at Egg Donor and Surrogate Solutions got to be a part of the Austin event. And oh my goodness, she couldn't just she she couldn't stop just oohing and aahing over it. I mean, she had so much fun being a part of that. And we are just so grateful that we get to partner with you all in you know in this space and with all of those individuals.
00:23:38
Speaker
um At the time of this recording, we haven't quite gotten to the New York event, but we will be going to the New York event. And so I guess by the time this drops, New York has already happened. But yes what are, guess so take it away, George. You guys are also doing some other special things.
00:23:56
Speaker
Yeah, so this is our first event where we're actually having, and we're going to continue this on for our next event in San Diego um in July. And um we're having giveaways. So um the providers, some of the providers that are joining are actually giving away, we're giving away up to $130,000 worth of just like the giveaways. So where you can get money off of your legal fees or um your surrogacy fees. And you're, you could potentially walk away from our event with like $13,000 towards your journey. Well, what's amazing is that, for example, right? So like Katie and egg donor and surrogate solutions has graciously offered to waive your fees for an egg donor journey when, youre for some, one of the giveaways, right? Which is incredible, right? Like how amazing to be able to approach your journey with
00:24:41
Speaker
a provider such as egg donor and surrogate solutions and having your egg donor agency fee waived like that just makes changing. It's not only life changing, but it just takes again, some of the pressure off of you. Like that's a serious amount of money that someone is able to now enter into this journey with potentially a little bit less trepidation than they had before. And you have a great partner.
00:25:00
Speaker
Right. And like, it's what's so impactful is that to your point, these amazing partners are who are doing this, right? Like they are the ones who are, you know, giving these giveaways to anyone who comes to our events, which is amazing.
00:25:14
Speaker
And then even further is we just recently, the other day, actually, just partnered with Lauren and her team over at Chosen Fertility Group, which is a grant organization that's pretty relatively new to the scene. and It's about four years old.
00:25:27
Speaker
um And what's so amazing about them is that they are the first fertility grant organization that has grants for IUI, IVF, surrogacy, and acupuncture.
00:25:37
Speaker
And that's what's so amazing about this organization, where they're able to get grants for all those different types of solutions that individuals need in the reproductive space.
00:25:48
Speaker
And we partner with them at Families Out Loud where we're going to be giving one or two grants in the IVF and IUI space so that it is a more inclusive environment for everyone. And we'll be you know accepting applications at Families Out Loud.
00:26:01
Speaker
And at each every other Families Out Loud event, we will have one of the giant checks where we give away a huge lump sum of money to a grant recipient, which is going to be super exciting. So and it'll be very cool. So amazing. And that's really, like, Families Out Loud is really there to provide, like we said before, like the access. And like, it's like visibility, it's access, it's community. There's so many parts of Families Out Loud um that make growing your family just a little bit easier than it would be if you just hope were doing it on your own.
00:26:31
Speaker
um And you also get like Mike and i as a support systems through all of it. Heck yeah. We're happy to help too. Yeah. A hundred percent.
00:26:42
Speaker
So just after hearing all of that, what what do you want some What do you hope someone feels whenever they walk into one of your events? And maybe whenever they leave one of your events?
00:26:53
Speaker
And I feel like you've kind of already touched on it, but. Well, I want someone to feel like joy, right? Like I want someone to walk into one of our events and just be overwhelmingly happy.
00:27:05
Speaker
Because we've been to, as George was mentioning, so many conferences where the two of us so have stopped individuals and just grabbed their hands and said, are you okay? Breathe. Like, take a second, take a beat. right Because they are quite literally stark white and wide-eyed. And, you know, you can sense this fear and trepidation. And that's not what this should be at all. Yeah. We want people to walk out the door of the family planning event and be like,
00:27:31
Speaker
Oh my God, that was so helpful. i feel like I know what I have to do now. Yeah. And then I hope they leave the drag show later that night, like wiping the sweat off their face. Yes. Feeling so good and being like, actually got to enjoy this. Yeah. And like, it was time well spent for so many different reasons.
00:27:47
Speaker
um You know, we hope we get both of those reactions because that's that's how we wanted to feel after we left. Maybe not wiping the s sweat off our face, but... We wanted to feel leaving and we kept on feeling like we would leave with more questions.
00:28:00
Speaker
And leaving film is out loud. You're going to have a list of people that you want to talk to the next day. Who can answer any questions you have. And you'll feel good about reaching out to those people. Whether it's to a provider you met or whether it's to George and I or whether it's to anyone that you may have met or... potentially another parent, because we also invite current parents, right? And just say, hey, you know, I met this another amazing couple that has already been through this process.
00:28:21
Speaker
Maybe we'll grab coffee with them and we learn a little bit about what their experience was like if they have never met anyone who's gone through this before. to have that personal interaction. Right. So like, that's the whole idea, which is why we have a huge drag show at the end, not to just celebrate, but to also bring communities together.
00:28:38
Speaker
Right. Like it's meant to be an inclusive space where everyone can share ideas and learn to dance and have a great time.
Community Building and Support
00:28:45
Speaker
Yeah. And like, we've met, um you know, ah other gay dads who are a little bit older than us.
00:28:50
Speaker
So their kids are a little bit older and we ask them questions like, well, well the what's middle school like? Like, what is high school like? college like? Like, what are some of the things that you face or like, is it, is it harder? Is it easier? Like with the social climate, like all of these things. And,
00:29:03
Speaker
It's really insightful because we get like a little glimpse of what the future looks like even just a few years ahead. It's so helpful to know what that looks like or what it could look like um and what to like be prepared for. and And the building that community is so, so valuable. Because people don't think like about like when are those questions, those questions going to pop up with your kids. Like those where did I come from questions or like why did you do surrogacy and like all of that. And it's so nice to have multiple different opinions and hear how other couples or singles or individuals navigated that entire process to just say, Ooh, okay. I like what you did there. going to keep that in my pocket for when I get the rest. Sure. Yes. Well, I think, I mean, George, to your point, you had mentioned from the very, at the very beginning, whenever you guys were like, Hey, we want to have a baby. Now what?
00:29:50
Speaker
You didn't have that community. And This community is, and and Mike, you, you know, in your experience, whenever you're talking to, you know, potential intended parents, you're hearing from all of these women who, like you said, they have such a similar story, but no one's talking to each other. nope And so to bring people to space where something that can feel so daunting or something that had so much trauma come along with it and to come into a space where,
00:30:21
Speaker
It's happy and joy and just a beautiful celebration of building your family in this way. yes I mean, that's the type of community that you want to have whenever you're going down this journey. No matter where you're going.
00:30:38
Speaker
yeah And we have people that are attending the event that don't even know if they need you know, IVF or surrogacy, like they're coming just to learn, like in the event that they do need support, they want to know what's going to happen or what to expect or what the possibilities are. Yes. Because a lot of like heterosexual couples don't go through all the same testing that necessarily a gay couple goes through. Or a single woman who's 35 and is like, should I freeze my eggs? I don't know what to do. Come, come. We'll help you learn about Right. And like, that's exactly what we want. So anyone who has questions about their access to reproductive care, they should come and join us and and, you know, speak to Katie and speak to other providers there about what are some ideas, what are some solutions, you know, for them, just because people are afraid to ask those questions and Google is not going to give you the best answer. Like you have to speak with the source.
00:31:30
Speaker
Absolutely. No. Oh my gosh. I couldn't have said it better myself. I am so, I'm sure every listener is so tired of me saying don't go to Dr. Google, but it's true. It's very true. Or Dr. ChatGPT. Like it's not going.
00:31:44
Speaker
Oh, I know. Oh, Chatty. Oh no. ah put Like, sure, helpful, but not a doctor. and And, you know, even outside of the doctor piece, just the finances, like right? Like, we went into it kind of blind, knowing how we we knew was going to be a lot. We were like, oh, this is expensive. and This is expensive. But like. right You could Google until you're blue in the face. You will not find a solid answer because everyone's journey is so different.
00:32:11
Speaker
And until you're in it and you start talking to people who really know what they're talking about, not Google, not ChatGPT, you're going to have a better understanding of like what the costs are going to be. And then even one you could have bumps in the road that costs a little bit more, or you could save potentially on some decisions you make.
00:32:27
Speaker
So it can go either way. And and that is such a that is such a key point. Again, going back to the partners that you have been so careful of working with is you, it's very easy to go and, okay, well, I think I'm supposed to start here. And then you start.
00:32:43
Speaker
trying to build that team and not every, unfortunately, not every person in this space is going to be transparent when it comes to finances or potential hurdles or, you know, things like that. And it is so important to be able to have, you know, kind of that, hey, I know that these are trusted.
00:33:03
Speaker
These are trusted providers. This is a trusted team. I don't have to do that part of the vetting
Transparency and Informed Decisions
00:33:08
Speaker
process. Now I get to meet these people and talk with them. Yes. Yeah, I mean, when we were, so we knew right from this get go, we wanted to have twins.
00:33:16
Speaker
We wanted one biologically related to Mike and one biologically related to me, but we wanted to make sure that they had the same egg donor biological parent, mother. um And so we were shopping around for fertility clinics and everyone was saying, no, we got no so many times to twins.
00:33:33
Speaker
um And so we finally found someone who after what, like five or six, like shopping around finally found someone. And like, that was our dream and we wanted that to happen. um And like coming to a families out loud event, and you could talk to so many, you know, clinics and and agencies that will say like, yes, like we do do this. We do do double embryo transfers or we don't.
00:33:53
Speaker
And like, you're getting all that information in. 10 minutes as opposed to days of work and time spent on it. Yeah. And just flagging the double embryo transfer conversation, right? Like i understand.
00:34:06
Speaker
And now we understand because of our story, the risks that are involved with that. And no one ever actually had that conversation with us. Right. yeah And, you know, um and it is a dangerous journey, right? For the surrogate, for the unborn children. And we fully understand that.
00:34:23
Speaker
But no one explained that to us, which is for what to George's point, what was super frustrating. We just got to know not a why. And so like, that is what was most frustrating. You know, what I do love about San Diego Fertility Center, and about a lot of surrogacy agencies, even including Katie, Nick Dornan, Surrogate Solutions is Y'all listen, right? And like, the thing is, is that explain and explain. And I think like, again, what I like about SDFC is that what I always tell patients is that we listen, we advise and ultimately allow you to make the decision that you as the intended parent is most comfortable with.
00:34:59
Speaker
So as long as you are being advised of what your risks are for your surrogate, for your unborn children and for yourselves, and you are of sound mind making these decisions.
00:35:10
Speaker
play Yeah, absolutely. Well, again, that transparency and just and you're you're not a number. You're a person. we talk to you like i mean you talk to people mike i mean that is so key in this whole journey from start to finish and beyond and to be able have those groups of providers and just trusted team members when you're choosing to build your family this way
00:35:45
Speaker
is so important and, and being seen and being heard and being ah allowed to ask questions and having, maybe you're, maybe you're hearing no, or maybe you're hearing, you're hearing.
00:36:00
Speaker
ah hate that word. like what about this is traditional Right. yeah Exactly. Exactly. So like, instead of hearing those things, like, let's, let's like, okay, I received the information and here's, here's what you need here. Here's all of the, Here's the risks, here's the pros, here's the cons. Here is the data. I always tell. Here's questions that you maybe didn't even think to ask. Yes.
00:36:21
Speaker
Like the more data that you can have about a surrogate, about a donor, like the better, right? Like I think that the more information that you have, the better that you are. It's nothing in this entire journey is going to be perfect. Take that word out of your vocabulary.
00:36:37
Speaker
you're going through journey. It's going to be something, something. Right. Life isn't perfect, but you know, it's about the journey and like everything is I'm a firm believer in that everything that happens to you is supposed to happen to you and you're supposed to learn from it. So here we are, right? Like, so we took,
00:36:54
Speaker
for The trauma that we went through. um And we turned it into something positive because we said we don't want other people to go through that and to experience that. We want to try to help them avoid all of the pitfalls that we fell in and try to pave the path rather than just look behind at all the potholes that are left behind us.
00:37:13
Speaker
um So that's sort of where all of this is coming from. and it's coming from a place of love, not only for the LGBTQIA plus community, but for everyone um that we speak to, that we've seen our friends of ours, extended friends and family acquaintances. And now that we have so much exposure in this world.
00:37:31
Speaker
everyone that we've interacted with who has a story because all of us do. And I think it's also great for people who aren't close to IVF or surrogacy. Like no one in our family had ever had a deal with any of that. And like they're very lucky that they they were able to just like procreate naturally and and without any obstacles.
00:37:49
Speaker
But like, you know, even like showing like our parents and our friends who have never had any exposure to it, it's so important for them to see it as well. Absolutely. just for more visibility.
00:38:00
Speaker
Like what's so amazing is that my brother-in-law and his girlfriend are coming to our event. They're in their mid-20s, but they just want to learn about it, right? love it. They just want to be a part of it. They want to see what we do. They want to experience the community and be a part of the celebration, right? And they're like, okay, let's hear what this is all about. We're we're interested in what you're doing.
00:38:19
Speaker
And like that's amazing. No, it absolutely
Understanding Surrogacy Process
00:38:22
Speaker
is. Going off of just kind of that same track of whether you don't know or you haven't had experiences, what would you say maybe are some of the biggest misconceptions that about whether you're part of the LGBTQ plus community or, you know, or you're not, what do you, what do you hope families out loud and coming to an event like that, or just being exposed to, you know, all of the, all of the things that you guys are a part of, what do you hope will maybe break down some of like, what misconceptions do you hope to break down?
00:38:57
Speaker
I mean, one big one that always comes to mind when someone asks, like, what's the biggest misconception that we've seen is that you have to live right next to your surrogate or like in the same state as your surrogate. And that is, it's not, that's not the case. I mean, our surrogate lived literally across the country so and we built a fan fantastic relationship with her.
00:39:16
Speaker
Um, and how many visits does, do you really need to be there for the surrogate? I mean, there's not ah there's not a rule book, right, when it comes to surrogate. I think it's a relationship that you develop with your surrogate, right? We made a few visits to our surrogate out to Mexico because we had a great relationship.
00:39:30
Speaker
You know, we did a photo shoot. We were present for a few ultrasounds. Like, we developed that relationship. um So, like, that was what was important to us. yeahp I think, you know, everyone's journey is different. And I think that whatever feels right for you and for the participants in your journey is what's right.
00:39:45
Speaker
and But we were we went into it thinking, oh, my gosh, we have to find a surrogate in New Jersey. And we were looking for all the surrogates. And we're like, there's none in New Jersey. And we're like, what are we going to do? So we looked like the Pennsylvania. And we're like, there's really none here. And the we got further and further out. And then we're like, you know what? like Let's just do it based on...
00:40:01
Speaker
the criteria we get along with and the criteria yeah and that was ultimately the best decision for us um but again like choosing your surrogate is all about the connection and like it's a really big trust process right so you really have to be connected um and so that's ultimately what we made our decision on and she just happened to live on the other side of the country which is fine and it worked out um knock on wood but yeah that's how we got that stuff And I think proximity is one to what George is saying is that not only your surrogate, but your egg donor, your clinic, right? So like there's a huge misconception about geography and where you need to be. we definitely hope to tear down those walls.
00:40:39
Speaker
um But I think a misconception around having all of your providers siloed in one space. So like clinic, owner, surrogate, everyone is under one umbrella.
00:40:52
Speaker
um Under what has been largely received as like a guarantee program or like a all in one stop shop. um There's nothing bad about that. And I always tell and intended parents, if that's what you are most comfortable with, and that what is what feels good for you, by all means, do it, go for it.
00:41:09
Speaker
But what I like to advise people on is that very much like a menu at a restaurant, right? You might be missing out on something really awesome a la carte as compared to the menu that's already been picked for you. Or it's kind of like buying a house where you don't want everyone to be connected. Like you want like your inspector to come in and like...
00:41:30
Speaker
be advocating for you, want your lawyer to be separate and and advocate for you. And like you need and an external piece of that puzzle that's going to really advocate for you because that's extremely important.
00:41:42
Speaker
In our experiences and what I would love for people to learn at Families Out Loud is that having providers siloed predominantly and what I mean by that is maybe a donor and surrogate fine but like having your attorney having a separate relationship having your clinic having a separate relationship and I think there's a misconception that like going to one spot and getting all of your providers in one spot is the best way to do it or the way that you're going to save the most money and that's not actually the case And I think that I would love for parents to be able to learn the differences between what a program like that looks like and a program that's more a la carte looks like. And again, making a decision that feels the most comfortable for them. Because listen, there are some people who are so busy, they can't project manage so far as to have conversations with other providers. So like for them, you need the handholding and like the guidance and It call OneSource and say, OneSource, I'd love to have a baby. Help me, right? And be done.
00:42:37
Speaker
Right, right. Well, yeah two and I mean, I think, again, what makes things like what what makes families out loud so great is maybe maybe someone can't project manage or maybe someone did just get so overwhelmed. And so they're were like, oh, it's all here. It's done.
00:42:52
Speaker
right i don't have to worry about that part. right And you guys have essentially done that for them. Hey, these are all separate people, separate entities, but they're all here. So go talk to them.
00:43:03
Speaker
Right. Exactly. Exactly. and So we have done
Resilience and Patience in Family Building
00:43:06
Speaker
that. Yes. Absolutely. For anyone, if you guys could maybe just go back and say to day one, Mike and George, just for anyone who is wanting to find out more, maybe they've had a really bumpy experience and they don't want to do that again, but they don't know where to start.
00:43:27
Speaker
What's maybe just some advice that you would want to give to anyone out there, no matter where they are? on this journey. Yeah. I think what we tell this to, I think everyone is it's a marathon. It is not a sprint.
00:43:41
Speaker
It might seem like it's never going to end. And like, like we faced so many obstacles and we were at some points we were like, is this the right thing? Like, should we just like, is this a sign that we should stop?
00:43:52
Speaker
It's not obstacles will make you so much. the The end is so much sweeter. Once you get to it, like don't give up. Keep going. it will it will finalize and come to a baby. um And like you will be happy in the end. And it's just you to just keep pushing because there's other opinions. There's other options. There's always going to be something that can happen after an obstacle.
00:44:16
Speaker
Just keep pushing. It's a marathon, not a sprint. And with that too, is in somewhat the same vein, but a little bit different, is I always tell people as they enter the process, and I wish someone told us yeah this, and it's that.
00:44:28
Speaker
You are driving the bus, right? You drive the bus. And what I mean by that is that if you need to take breaks, it is okay. There is nothing saying that after you freeze your genetic material that you have to keep going.
00:44:42
Speaker
Take a psychological, financial break. It is okay. And no one should judge you for that, not including yourself. you know after you've created embryos it's okay to pause you don't have to run and have your surrogate ready immediately right like if you are going to be using a surrogate that's fine right like every single part of the process should be respected for its own individual part and no never let a provider influence you into the next step by timeline or now someone's ready or if you are not ready right then you're not ready this is your decision and like if you're not ready do not move forward like just
00:45:19
Speaker
pause, like yeah it's okay, take a breath. I think that there are too many providers out there and on all the rainbow providers from, you know, from clinic to donor to surrogate to mental health, everyone who tend to shove rather than guide.
00:45:32
Speaker
And I think that that's, you know, it happens in healthcare care in general with surgeries and medication. Absolutely. yeah think You would handle this with the same care that you would handle, you know, dealing with your own body and and and certain things and like think about things and pause and like, this is very expensive, like pause if you need a second to to catch up. For whatever reason, and I think no one should ever feel embarrassed about that because I think there's a lot of misconceptions that like, oh, once you get on, it's like a freight train that you can't stop and that's not it at all.
00:46:01
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And again, if you have given yourself the ability to be in spaces like Families Out Loud where you can have community, having those people reaching out to other intended parents or, you know, or parents that have already gone through this journey or again those trusted providers and being able to get those opinions and and maybe just affirmation of like hey where you are what you're doing you're doing great yeah because and you've said it so many times Mike and it's so true everybody's journey is a hundred percent unique there is no quote right way to do this and you need to honor that and having that community and
00:46:44
Speaker
I love that so, so much.
Future Plans and Gratitude
00:46:47
Speaker
Okay, so what is next for Families Out Loud? Again, at the time of the recording, New York has not happened quite yet, but by the time this drops, New York will have happened.
00:46:56
Speaker
Yay! We were part of Austin. We're going to be in New York. We've been New York. What's next? So after New York, we definitely have San Diego on the docket. That's July 11th and 12th.
00:47:10
Speaker
We will also be at Seeds, which is super exciting. You mentioned Seeds a little bit earlier, which is the ethics board um for IVF surrogacy, the basically. Yes, the Society of Ethics for Egg Donors and Surrogacy.
00:47:25
Speaker
That's the one. There you go. Good, good, good for you because I didn't remember the acronym. But for sure we're going to be there, which is going to be amazing. And then between all of us, um we are in the process of planning one more city for 2025. So very excited for that.
00:47:41
Speaker
um So that should be dropping soon. And then we'll have a full docket of events for 2026 2027 coming up so Super exciting. um Super excited for the partnerships.
00:47:52
Speaker
Love, love, love that you and Katie and egg donor surrogate solutions were one of our founding sponsors and will forever treasure that relationship. Thank you. yeah As we grow um and people learn about us and more awareness, we will take our, I would say, founding sponsors with us always.
00:48:12
Speaker
No, well, it's truly, truly been an honor to get to be um just a part of everything that you guys are doing. And it's just, it's so, it's just amazing what you guys are doing. And I love that you have created this space of um community and safety and, um you know, just acceptance and just all of those things. It's beautiful. For all of those fun events, where do people go?
00:48:35
Speaker
Yeah. So you can visit us at www.familiesoutloudevents.com or on our Instagram, which is at families underscore out underscore.
00:48:50
Speaker
Perfect. Perfect.
00:48:55
Speaker
I love it. Okay. My last question, and it's a fun one. You guys have seen me. I'm dancing with my mic and my coffee cup over here. um For anyone who knows me, they know that um coffee and I aren't far from each other. We we love each other. i may be codependent. It's okay.
00:49:13
Speaker
um But I always love to ask the question, what filled your cup today? Literally or figuratively, what's been the thing that's filled your cup? I mean, for me, it's our kids. Like we went to, we're we in the process of puring purchasing a new house. And so we're going to go take measurements.
00:49:32
Speaker
I know we're crazy, but um we were taking measurements and like, just like watching the kids like play around in their yard, like a new yard, like just having fun and wrestling in the grass. Like ah we're sitting there like drinking our coffee, watching our kids play. It's literally like our dream come true. yeah I love that. I mean, being that you took the like cute, like cliche one. um i think I think for me today, what's filled my cup or what's in the process of filling my cup is just everything that we're doing for Families Out Loud. Like there's so much and the small team that we even have here, a huge shout out to Chris, who is our chief marketing officer, who has helped us from just about the very beginning, if not the very beginning with so much.
00:50:14
Speaker
um And now our friend Dylan, who is helping us as well with a lot of the social media stuff. um You know, the the two of them, along with obviously my husband, not to get too sappy, just like along this entire journey, if that's what fills my cup every single day is like what we're building. And I get excited by the reach outs that we got from our sponsors or prospective sponsors or intended families reaching out. And that just every day I'm like, okay,
00:50:38
Speaker
Because you know, there's always trepidation, right? Like this is a a grassroots effort. And it's like just us three doing it. And being an entrepreneur is scary. And it's just like, you know, we're going into this and we're like, okay, are we doing the right thing? And every single day, I'm like, okay, we're doing the right thing. This is the right thing.
00:50:52
Speaker
um So it just, it feels good. Yeah. Thank you, everyone, for supporting us. And it's like it literally means to the world that we can like make something out of this idea. we're so, so excited. Yes, for sure. Well, your passion and excitement is, I mean, it's contagious. And it makes me just so happy and excited that we get to be part of it.
00:51:12
Speaker
So thank you guys so, so, so much. Thank you, Whitney. We appreciate it. Absolutely.
00:51:22
Speaker
dot to And and all of the underscores on social media. That's correct.
00:51:30
Speaker
Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Me, You, and Who. We appreciate your time and hope you enjoyed our discussion today. As we wrap, we would like to remind you of some of the ways that you can stay connected with us and be part of the me, you and who podcast community.
00:51:48
Speaker
Firstly, if you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform, hit that subscribe button. So you never miss an episode and can stay up to date with our latest content, but that's not all.
00:52:01
Speaker
We also have an exciting YouTube channel where we share some bonus content behind the scenes glimpses and video versions of our episodes. Head over to YouTube and hit that subscribe button there as well. And don't forget to click the notification bell.
00:52:16
Speaker
So you'll be the first to know when the new episodes go live and for more exclusive updates, engaging discussions, and a chance to connect with fellow listeners. Be sure to follow us on our social media accounts.
00:52:27
Speaker
You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and TikTok at create a happy family. If you're interested in finding out more about creating a happy family, please visit us at www.createahappyfamily.com.
00:52:41
Speaker
Thank you again for being part of the Me, You and Who community. Your support means the world to us. I can't wait for you to join us next time as we continue to share stories and journeys of creating happy families.