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S3E25 Who?! Honest Conversations on Infertility, Donor Conception, and Healing
3 Playsin 16 hours
Summary:
Whitney sits down with Victoria for an open and heartfelt conversation about infertility, endometriosis, and the emotional challenges of using donor eggs. Victoria shares how she found healing through community and why she founded Infertility Unfiltered to provide a space for honest conversations. She discusses the complexities of family dynamics, the importance of support systems, and how to navigate discussions about donor conception with children. Through her journey, Victoria highlights the power of connection, the importance of open communication, and the hope that comes from embracing every step of the process.
Takeaways:
- Victoria had stage three endometriosis, impacting her fertility.
- Long painful periods should not be normalized; seek help.
- The emotional journey of infertility includes grief and trauma.
- Using donor eggs can be a viable option for many couples.
- Community support is crucial during the infertility journey.
- The healing process can take time and requires self-education.
- Motherhood can be achieved through various paths, including egg donation.
- Family dynamics play a significant role in the infertility experience.
- It's important to allow space for grief when facing infertility.
- Celebrating small victories can help shift perspective during tough times.
- Navigating family dynamics can be complex and emotional.
- Support groups provide a vital space for healing and sharing experiences.
- Empowerment comes from understanding and sharing your story.
- Grief can coexist with hope and joy in parenting.
- Creating a supportive community can help alleviate feelings of isolation.
- Language matters when discussing donor conception with family and friends.
- Children are open to understanding diverse family structures.
- Finding joy in connection can fill your cup and inspire others.
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Transcript
Introduction to Infertility as an Emotional Journey
00:00:01
Speaker
Hi everyone, and welcome to Me, You, and Who. Infertility is an emotional rollercoaster filled with both heartbreak and hope. Today, I'm honored to share the story of someone who has not only walked this path, but has dedicated herself to helping others navigate it with honesty, support, and empowerment.
Victoria's Personal Experience with Infertility
00:00:22
Speaker
Victoria joins me to share her deeply personal experience with endometriosis, infertility, and the decision to use donor eggs to grow her family. But her story doesn't end there.
00:00:33
Speaker
She took her struggles and turned them into a mission, creating Infertility Unfiltered, a thriving community with support groups for every stage of the infertility journey. She also founded Expecting Anything, a resource hub focused on normalizing donor egg conception and is the author for resources like Why I'm Glad My Eggs Didn't Work and more recently, a children's book called Our Hearts Match that celebrates the many ways families are created and helps young children embrace the beauty of donor conception.
00:01:05
Speaker
For those who are in the process of discerning or struggling with the idea of using donor eggs, Victoria's insights provide a sense of comfort, clarity, and validation. She understands the fears, the grief, and the questions that come with this path, and she's passionate about helping others embrace the beauty of family building in new and unexpected ways.
00:01:25
Speaker
Victoria's story is a testament to resilience, purpose, and the power of community. If you've ever felt alone in your fertility journey or a wrestling with what it means to grow your family in a non-traditional way, this episode is for you.
00:01:40
Speaker
You are seen, heard, and never without hope. I can't wait for you to be part of this conversation. Enjoy.
Whitney's Surrogacy Journey
00:01:48
Speaker
me you, and who?
00:01:51
Speaker
Who knew it would take more than two people to have a baby in a world where infertility is no longer a taboo topic. This podcast will take you through all of the different aspects of surrogacy and egg donation through the lens of many who walk this journey in different ways.
00:02:08
Speaker
My name is Whitney Hall. and i am a two time surrogate now turned surrogacy coordinator for egg donor and surrogate solutions. the very agency I used when I chose to carry for two amazing families.
00:02:22
Speaker
With this podcast, it is our goal to help guide and support you as you learn about what it takes to grow a family in an alternative way, as well as hear inspiring and beautiful stories of how this path has changed lives forever. We can't wait for you to hear about just one more way happy families are created every day.
Endometriosis and Health Awareness
00:02:45
Speaker
Victoria, welcome. I am so excited that you are here. Thanks so much for doing this. Of course. Happy to tell my story anytime. Thank you. Yeah. Oh my goodness.
00:02:55
Speaker
Okay. So for those who don't know, you Victoria, the founder of Infertility Unfiltered, which is, I feel like the best way to describe it is it's a support community But you also have Expect the Unexpected you're an author too. But before we even get to all of these things and, you know, just can you share your story and how, you know, just the world of infertility kind of became a part of you and your story? Yeah, definitely. So I um had stage three endometriosis and looking back to even like college years, I had it then too. I just did it. Yeah.
00:03:38
Speaker
um and I feel like that's just the story of women's health in general, right? It is. It is. Yeah. It's sad. um It's true. That's why I talk so openly about it. Like young women, young girls, like if you have long painful periods, something's not right. Like it shouldn't feel like that. Yeah.
00:03:54
Speaker
And so I had seen many, you know, gynecologists, you could call them and in college and so forth. And no one even cared to find out why. Mm-hmm.
00:04:05
Speaker
ah painful. I mean, it was like debilitating pain curled over, like nauseous, like all the things. Yeah. Two weeks long. um So I would say to you, like, that's probably when my journey started.
Fertility Treatments and Challenges
00:04:17
Speaker
I didn't know that at the time um when I got married and at 29, we started trying right away. And it probably took us three years before we went to the doctor because I was just like,
00:04:31
Speaker
it's going to happen. Like maybe we're just not doing it right. You know, legs in the air, like, you know, egg white, you know, stuff like, yeah, absolutely. We're just doing all of the things.
00:04:43
Speaker
And so i finally went in for a fertility workup. I want to say it was like 33, 32.
00:04:50
Speaker
And they were like, oh yeah. So like your levels are like more like someone in their late forties or early fifties. And I was like, I'm 32. What do mean?
00:05:01
Speaker
um And so that was like a a real, you know, reality check because I just kept thinking we're not, I'm not old, you know? um and And I i like knew that like my pap smears and all that were all normal. I just thought, well, I can have a baby, you know?
00:05:19
Speaker
um So i then I got thrown into the world of ah TTC, if you will. Yes. you That crazy lingo that exists in this community. And I learned a lot. i um tried a lot of things. I did IUIs and IVFs, gosh, probably 10 times. I mean, so many times.
00:05:40
Speaker
yeah Um, and my issue was always not getting enough eggs. And, um, I'll never forget like the last IVF retrieval that I did. um I only had two eggs like, and it was like our Hail Mary because every time we'd only get one to grow. And when we got to, my doctor was like, let's do it. You got two.
00:05:59
Speaker
hu It's crazy. Only two. But like I was, you know, in my thirties, um, thinking this could be my only chance. Yeah. You say you only need one, right? Right. Sure. sure And so we did it. And unfortunately, both eggs were were just not, neither of them fertilized. One of them was like, we' saying it was like black in color. It was so bad. Like I remember thinking, yeah, my eggs are rotten. That's my rotten eggs.
00:06:23
Speaker
Oh. um And so then I had to sit down with my doctor and this was after like the endometriosis diagnosis and I had had the surgery to remove it and I had done the Lupron and all the things.
00:06:35
Speaker
I was going to say, you have like all of this journey before you even get to the IVF process. It's like, you know, we get like this, hey, your body is basically like acting like it's 50. And then you, you know, after, like you said, you've had this just kind of debilitating normalcy, if you will.
00:06:52
Speaker
And then we get to the like, and now I want to try and have a baby and all of the things through that. Right, right. Yeah. ah yeah so So after that retrieval, I just like in the back of my mind, I was like, that i that was my last chance. Like, I don't know, what am I going to do? And I just started Googling and and learned about egg donation. I didn't tell anyone, not even my husband. I was just like, I'm just spiraling here and trying to find it a plan B. Like, I just knew I could just not be a mom. So i was like, I got to figure out another option.
00:07:24
Speaker
So again, didn't say it to anyone. we had that like meeting with the doctor, like the sit down in the office with my clothes on, like the like serious meeting. Sure. and And my husband and um she said, you thought about donor eggs?
00:07:38
Speaker
And before I could even answer, my husband said, what? No. I was like, what, why, no why no? And he was like, I wanna have a baby with you. Like I married you, you know? And I was like, but you would still be having a baby with me. And he's like, are you, what, is this something you wanna do? And i was like, I don't know, but I think we should hear hear her out, you know?
00:07:59
Speaker
um And then the doctor shared many stories of other patients and really beautiful like um similarities even between the mother and child.
00:08:11
Speaker
ah via egg donor like es and like she she was like this real big epigenetics advocate and had spoken on panels and so forth and yeah i will say at the time the epigenetics is what i hung onto like to me that was like okay I'm gonna, and if people don't know what epigenetics is, it's the idea of epi on top of genetics, right?
00:08:32
Speaker
Right, i right. So it's it's your environment and the things that you can do to influence the outcome. Genetics, of course, are are influencing the outcome, but there's also nurture. It's not nurture versus nature, it's nurture and nature.
00:08:47
Speaker
There you go, yeah. um And I've made good friends with an epigenetic scientist. I geek out way too. but Well, whenever you get thrown into this world, I think you said it beautifully and we'll we'll get to it. It was, uh, it was your, I think it's like the first page of your survival guide. It's like, welcome to infertility. This is your second job.
00:09:05
Speaker
Like yeah you just learn all about it. It is. You are now CEO and you can hire people. Yes. on And so, so anyway, so that is what I think I initially, cause I was
Emotional Struggles with Donor Eggs
00:09:20
Speaker
devastated. I mean, it was like, ah just sucker punch of my life. And um I thought, gosh, like what? Like you just told me someone died in that moment. Like you just killed that baby that I had a face and a name and a home, a room in my home for is now gone dead.
00:09:38
Speaker
Right? Like I hate to be that dark, but that's what it feels like. And I think a lot of doctors don't understand that. um What do you mean by that? So like when they're delivering this news, like I'll give you an example. So I just spoke on this panel and I'm in front of a bunch of doctors to give the patient perspective.
00:09:55
Speaker
And I was mind blown that they were like, what do you mean genetic grief? I've never heard it talked about that way. And I'm like, are you fucking kidding Sorry. when you What do you mean? You've never heard of it. Yeah. And so I'm sitting there telling these doctors, like you guys, like when you guys tell us that we have to use another woman's eggs to become pregnant, someone is dying in that moment. Someone just died.
00:10:21
Speaker
Like the most important thing to cry, the most important thing or person in your life at that time just died. um And I'm not crying for that baby. I'm crying because it's like such a traumatic experience.
00:10:35
Speaker
Yeah. It's a vision, right? mean, from the time, feel like from the time you're a little girl and you have these dreams of being a mom, you have a vision of what that looks like. And it's a vision that you've held on to.
00:10:51
Speaker
Like you said, you were 29 whenever you started trying to have a baby. So you've held on this vision what looks like. for three decades went through and then not only went through like had that vision but then you go through this journey and a traumatic journey and a physical journey and then yes i think there there are two ways about it from a doctor's perspective right it's like okay this didn't work but look we have this other alternative which is great and beautiful but two things can exist at once of you have this hope but then you also have to like like you said i have to grieve this
00:11:24
Speaker
idea this process, this, you know, like you said, this this death of this possibility. Right, right. Yeah. and And so I think in that moment, my husband was like, he had never, like, I mean, most people have never heard of it, right? Like, i didn and I hadn't even really, I mean, you never see it in a movie, on a TV show, celebrities aren't talking about it.
00:11:47
Speaker
So it's like this really secretive world that no one knows anything about. And so you got to start to make these assumptions about, what this person means to your family and all these other really dark thoughts. And um so I think what I'm trying to say is I wish more doctors were more sensitive to what happens in that exact moment when you deliver that news and allow space for that person to feel that grief because it is very heavy. And like I said, it is trauma. um And so there needs to be an emotional support system to guide someone through that through that time, as well as the the person's partner if there is one.
00:12:21
Speaker
Yeah, it sounds and it sounds like, and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, so you were, not only is your doctor, so you're you're sitting down, and i I almost like envision like, you know, you're like a kid in school and you get called into the principal's office. Like, it feels like one of those, like, scary meetings, right?
00:12:36
Speaker
And you're sitting down, you already are, you know, just... upset. I mean, you're just already upset. Right. And, and then, but then for you, like you said, you had kind of Googled and like kind of had gotten started on like thinking about that.
00:12:52
Speaker
and then your husband's hearing it for the first time. How did you guys, I mean, I know eventually you said like, let's just hear her out, but then from that moment, how did you two as a couple kind of navigate just that choice and what that looks like for you?
00:13:06
Speaker
It was a lot of education. and was just like, Hey, read this. Hey, listen to this, you know? yeah and just talking about it and like starting to like dip her toe and look at like the, the agency, they like the profiles of these, you know?
00:13:21
Speaker
which that was like super uncomfortable and creepy and weird. And just, you made the decision that I would do that and he would not. And I would come back and say, this is who I'd like to pick. And he'd say, okay. And it was just not a, you know, not a joint effort, which every couple does that differently. That's just what. Absolutely.
00:13:36
Speaker
Yeah. um And so you're right. So it is this, it's this very like big moment of like, this is a shift. Are we willing to to make this shift? Maybe we are, but we're not ready yet. What's it going to take to get us
Public Sharing and Support Community
00:13:50
Speaker
ready? You know,
00:13:51
Speaker
um And with no one to look at, I mean, remember, this was like 10 plus years ago. i had no one to look at to to say, oh, well, she did it and she's okay. Or her family looked normal, you know?
00:14:05
Speaker
Sure. So I had to go off of my doctor's stories. I literally was like, tell me more, you know? Yeah. literally i's I took everything from her. i was like, give me all of the patient stories you've heard and you've seen and and tell me and let me ingest those because that's my only hope right now, you know?
00:14:21
Speaker
And that's why I'm so vocal about it now. It's because I'm like, I want to show people that it can be okay, that it can be more than okay. And that like, you know, i really believe if you can see it, you can be it, you know? And I think I wish more people would would be it.
00:14:36
Speaker
Yeah. Or that others can see it, you know? Because it's like, it's not fair to have to walk this alone in this like dark shadow of shame. There shouldn't be shame around this in my opinion. Well, the infertility world, I feel like can, i mean, it, it can feel so so lonely despite the fact that it's like one in six that experience infertility.
00:15:02
Speaker
It feels like you're the only one sometimes. Totally. you aren't, if people aren't being vocal, like you said, we're not willing to share their story or feel, and a lot of times it is because they feel shame or there's taboo around the subject and, you know, just, just all of that. um So yeah, I love, i love how vocal you're being now. And I'm, it makes me so sad that at the time,
00:15:26
Speaker
you didn't have the, what you've created now of like, no, you guys look, this is, there's a whole big world out there and it's not just you in it. Right, right, right. Exactly. That's why I did it because I was like, I also, it was a selfish thing too. Cause like I needed it, you know, it's like, maybe I, maybe I can help some other people, but I need to help myself right now. And so I literally just went public to the world and said, here's my story.
00:15:52
Speaker
Does anyone know anything about, can anyone, relate you know and i got messages and i was like oh thank god these people saved me you know yeah to talk about it because it was my healing journey um and that was that was helping me like healing out loud in front of other people was like the way it worked for me for whatever yeah no for sure so focusing on that going from that moment trauma hey if you're going to be a mom
00:16:23
Speaker
this is probably the path that we're gonna need go down next to, you know, two you know celebration almost. And I shouldn't say almost, but yeah, I would probably say the best way to describe it is celebration. I mean, what the name of, ah you know, one of your books is um I'm glad, or what what is it? I'm glad my eggs didn't work or yeah.
00:16:46
Speaker
Why? Yeah, exactly. What was that? And i know you kind of already dabbled in it, but how was that healing journey? What were some of the things that you were doing And what was the kind of that turning point to go from like, you know, okay, kind of tiptoe, like, all right, husband, this is who we're going to use, you know, as our egg donor and going through that process to where you are now.
00:17:12
Speaker
And spoiler alert, you're, ah it ended beautifully and you have two beautiful children, but, but yeah, what, how, how was kind of that aspect of the journey?
00:17:23
Speaker
I will say for me, it took a very long time. And I know some people, it can it can take a much shorter time. So I don't want people to be like discouraged by this. um But, you know, I'll give you a timeline. So from the moment I found out, let's call it 33, maybe is when I understood I needed to egg donation, 34, maybe um I became pregnant at 38.
00:17:45
Speaker
So that's, and it took me not only a while to to finally decide to do it. But then when we did decide to do it, our first ed donor, unfortunately,
00:17:57
Speaker
was unsuccessful. um That set us back, not only in our timeline, but also in the trauma and the, I'm not meant to be a mom or this is like my destiny. Like I'm just doomed, you know, I'm cursed. And like, this was my hail Mary and also the financial setbacks, you know, like, oh gosh, 401ks, credit cards, like a home equity line on our our house, you know, like all the things to do something that like then just crushed again.
00:18:27
Speaker
It's really freaking hard. So, you know, but I do think that like everything is for us, you know, like i'm not this all happens for a reason. And like, you're meant to go through this hell, you know, no one yeah deserves that. No one deserves that.
00:18:40
Speaker
But I do think we can look at situations and find purpose and find learnings and, and recognize that like they did teach us something really big um and turn it and turn it around. And I think once you can start to, so I'm getting to answer your question. I think on that shift, it's almost like, and I don't need to be toxic positivity or whatever, but it's almost like it's leaning towards gratitude, you know? and even it's just a little bit, you know? And it's like, okay, this fucking sucks, but I get a chance to be pregnant.
00:19:14
Speaker
you know Otherwise I wouldn't. right Or um you know this is really hard and expensive and terrible and all the things, but I could be a mom and that's really my end goal.
00:19:26
Speaker
That's my goal. yeah mom You know, and it's just like little by little, like sort of like reframing, you know, and shifting, like, like putting on a different set of glasses, like, okay, I'm going to look at this differently.
00:19:38
Speaker
and i think it also takes a lot of inner work around like, what does being a mother really mean to you? or what does family really mean to you? What does family look like for you?
00:19:51
Speaker
Yeah.
Family Views and Non-Traditional Structures
00:19:52
Speaker
um Because I think if you're born into a family that is of a certain way, a lot of times that's like in our subconscious, like that's our belief system.
00:20:02
Speaker
Sure. That's what we see. um Yeah. That's what you're exposed to. Right. And even like, I think about the small town that I grew up in, like, I didn't, of course, know anyone that was donor conceived. I also, I knew one kid that was adopted, only one.
00:20:15
Speaker
ah ah um um And that was it, you know? And and i I didn't know any single mom family. Like I literally was exposed to just your typical standard traditional family makeup. To me, that was good. So when I was hit with this like alternative option, it was hard for me to think about my family being equal to those families in a way.
00:20:37
Speaker
Um, which now I know for sure we're equal, like there's no question, but, but I, but again, it's a belief system. It's almost like a rewiring of your brain that has happen. And to to rewire it, you have to educate yourself. You have to talk about it. You have to get the feelings out. You have to go to therapy. You have to meet other people that have done it.
00:20:54
Speaker
Yeah. You have to hear stories. Like it's, it's all of that. And for some people that can be done very quickly and some people it takes a long time. Yeah. Um, I know a woman, she's ah a good friend of mine. i think in a year she made the decision and got pregnant and she's good. you know She also did this recently where there are more research it, right? She also has been through my support groups and so forth. And I just saw her move through it very quickly because she was like, I want to be a mom.
00:21:24
Speaker
I want to be a mom and I'm going to immerse myself and I'm going to educate myself and I'm going to change my brain and rewire and have a different perspective. And she did it, you know? Yeah. Yeah. yeah So I think it's just, it's unique to the person.
00:21:35
Speaker
um But to answer your question, it was hard. It was really hard and it took a long time and a a lot of really deep sadness and anger and jealousy and um anxiety. Like I lost friendships. I mean, it was brutal.
00:21:50
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. But it was also kind of beautiful. Like, i you know, it was this, I like to use the word brutal. It's like brutal and beautiful. I love that.
00:22:02
Speaker
I love that. Well, I mean, there can, there can be beauty and tragedy. And think, you know, and exactly to your point, you have, you have done the work and are supporting the work of rewiring your brain and,
00:22:21
Speaker
you know, i I completely agree with you with this idea of like toxic positivity. And I think that sometimes what's so hard for people who don't necessarily don't necessarily understand infertility is like, well, but look, like you found a solution. So I don't understand why there's still a problem, you know, like they're both of these things can exist simultaneously.
00:22:38
Speaker
And exactly like you said, putting on a different set of glasses does not neate negate the fact that you can't see out of the other set. It's just give giving yourself a reprieve. And And, you know, looking at it from all of those angles.
00:22:51
Speaker
I mean, yeah. and again, yes, to your point, egg donation, yes, is a so a solution.
00:23:02
Speaker
how you get there is so unique to the person. You can have it where it takes, you know, four years before we get pregnant versus a year and we have a baby. So, I mean, and both journeys are beautiful, but everybody's got to do it at their own pace and all of that should be loved and celebrated.
00:23:20
Speaker
And then if you have a partner, like what's, what's their grief cycle, you know, and has be like, together on the same timeline and, you know, get there. So it's, it's a lot, you know, and then you've got like family, like, you know, your parents maybe, or your sister or your brother, like trying to to support you. And they're also like trying to figure out how this works.
00:23:40
Speaker
And then you're like, Oh, I got to educate them too. Like, you know, it's exhausting. yeah <unk>s afraid to put it It's exhausting. Yes. It's exhausting.
00:23:51
Speaker
So fast forward to, you know, you, you did end up having a, um, another egg donor. You were able to have your daughter and then you, which is beautiful and, um, congratulations. Um, and how was your, you kind of touched on a little bit.
00:24:14
Speaker
What was that like to go from this, you know, basically you're just constantly getting bad news to all of a sudden... now we're here and like, there's a positive pregnancy test or even you could go back to, hey your egg donor was successful.
00:24:30
Speaker
Like just hearing that news. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Really. When we got the embryos, I was like, what we have embryos. Like, you know, but then you start to think, okay, well, this was a young, healthy, fertile woman. So like those embryos equal babies. Right. So then you're like, well, okay, well, was the eggs. That was the problem.
00:24:51
Speaker
um So I did get pregnant on the first try with those embryos with my daughter, my six year old, who was the love of my life. She's my like soulmate in every sense of the word. yeah And then we had two other embryos from that donor that I tried to conceive a sibling for her with and those did not work. And so that's.
00:25:09
Speaker
I actually think that grief was like even more complicated than the initial, because i felt like I lost something for her the person I love.
The Journey for a Sibling
00:25:19
Speaker
Like, I felt like I let her down because she kept asking me for a baby brother. You know, she was like, I really want a baby brother. And I'm like, I'm trying, I'm trying.
00:25:29
Speaker
We actually thought like that was it. um I think that was like the hardest, like, okay, well, we're a one kid family. Like this is, where it ends. And it was really sad because I felt like that wasn't the end. But I was like, I'm out eggs.
00:25:42
Speaker
You know, I can't we can't afford to start over and do all this. And I was 41, think, at time. And
00:25:51
Speaker
and my daughter, I'll never forget. I tell this story all the time. We're like in the hallway. She had just, I just given her a bath we're in the hallway and she goes, mama, is there a baby in your belly? And I said, no, honey, there's not, you know, she said, well, when is there going to be? And I said, I've been trying really, really hard, but I'm all out of eggs.
00:26:09
Speaker
Um, and she goes, we'll just get a new eggs. And I said, well, I can't go to girls and get new eggs. Like like, I literally said back to her and she goes, okay, well, where do you have to go? And I said, well, costs a lot money and it's really hard. And she grabbed me by the store. She says, you can do hard things.
00:26:30
Speaker
I know. I'm going to cry. So was like, yep, yep, I can. um That's something I say to her all the time. That's what I mean. She's like my little bestie, my little soulmate. She like always knows what to say.
00:26:45
Speaker
And I said, okay. And I thought about it. And we had done a fresh donor cycle with with her donor. And I thought, well, what if we did frozen? You know, like it is much more affordable. It's faster.
00:26:58
Speaker
um and I knew i met I wanted an open relationship. And I thought, I've heard of some places doing that now. yeah So I reached out to a couple of egg banks and found one that said, yeah, we're willing to do an open relationship with frozen eggs.
00:27:14
Speaker
And and we did it and we did it. And thanks to that egg donor, we have an open relationship. Her name is Chloe. um She gave us out of six.
00:27:27
Speaker
I think we got six frozen eggs and we got um two healthy embryos. um And one is my son, who's now two years old. And so my my children are are half genetically related, but they're not at all half brother and sister. Like they know we don't use that word because they don't have half of each other.
00:27:49
Speaker
You know what mean? Like they are they like, they have the same mom and dad. They live in the same house. They're grown. They're growing up together. um There's no half anything. Right. Yeah. If were to talk about that, like neither of them are genetically related to me, like zero. So what what do you call me? Like zero mom? No.
00:28:09
Speaker
We don't do that kind of math in this house. No, no um But yeah, so it was like this just crazy. I was like, are we really starting over? I'm like in my 40s and we're doing this whole thing over again. Like what are we crazy? You know? um But it was because of that little six-year-old who at the time was four and a half, by the way. my gosh.
00:28:30
Speaker
And she just, or four, not even. Yeah, she was like four, I think. Three and a half, maybe. I don't know. That's a lot. he's what she's is old soul she has an old soul like um and I still tell her that story because like when she's like looking at her brother like I hate you you know and I'm like uh do you remember like yeah miss ma'am you know I love him he's just annoying me right now i'm like okay yep yep and there we go both things can exist simultaneous
00:29:04
Speaker
Yes. Oh my gosh. But what, what a roller coaster and what a, I mean, and again, just so many things to navigate all simultaneously of like, oh gosh, we're doing this again.
00:29:17
Speaker
Grappling with, I mean, you're right. They're not, they are, they are full brother, sister, but still needing to, you know, i shouldn't say, but alongside the fact that thinking about, oh there is that genetic piece and you did have those embryos and the grief that went with that know, working on, just working through that moment to get to this frozen option, to get to where you are. I mean, all of that is happening all at once.
00:29:47
Speaker
And i mean, again, everybody's experiencing this so uniquely, but not a lot of people are talking about it. Yeah. What was your, I mean,
00:30:00
Speaker
She was four at that time. So obviously, you know, a different time, but even still, what was your support system during that time? Um, well, I had my support group that I, that I lead. yeah Yeah.
00:30:16
Speaker
Yeah. So that was, you know, even though I'm like the group instructor, like, cause I'm not teaching it's I bring in experts. I'm just like the facilitator. yeah So I bring in doctors, therapists, the epigenetic scientist guy, like they all they come in and speak. And also I bring in a lot of donor conceived people to give their perspectives. Cause I think that's really powerful and important. Yeah.
00:30:37
Speaker
So like, even though like I'm the facilitator, I'm still healing through all of this. Like I'm learning every the time we do it. I'm listening to these other women's stories going, oh my God, like, yes, thank you for that inspiration.
00:30:48
Speaker
yeah And I, and I remember there were times like I was like, I almost canceled because I'm like, I'm so depressed right now. I'm so sad and I would still do it. I'd say, guys, I'm here. I'm not, I'm not doing that great.
00:31:00
Speaker
but this is real life and y'all know that, you know? um and and we'd and we'd get through it together and they'd support me and I'd support them. And um it was it was rough.
00:31:10
Speaker
um But I think I just, it was different in the support that I had then versus the and the first time, because I knew more, you know? yeah um And the grief wasn't about genetic grief. It was about, am I going to have this baby that I that i want so badly?
00:31:27
Speaker
i actually got pregnant. like kind spontaneously as I was prepping for um ah mock cycle and they turned me away because I was pregnant. I ended up miscarrying.
00:31:38
Speaker
But at 40, like I said, one years old, pregnant for the first time with my own eggs, like what? ah You know, um and but I was again that roller coaster.
00:31:49
Speaker
I know. i know. But I was actually mad about it because I knew i mean, this is pretty dark, but I knew it wasn't going to it wasn't going to be a viable pregnancy. So I was like, this is getting in my way.
00:32:00
Speaker
You know what i mean? I am going to get pregnant and I know this baby isn't going to stay and I need to go, I need to do my transfer, you know? um And I still believe that was like some crazy, like spiritual pregnancy.
00:32:16
Speaker
Um, because after I miscarried, it was that, and I got COVID and then I like, everything was just shit hitting the fan. And I went in and my doctor was like, your hormone, I've never seen you look so good.
00:32:27
Speaker
She was just like, your body is ready to go. This is the time we got to seize the day. And the embryo we used, my son, um was a test embryo because he was inconclusive, even though it was like a grade A, B or whatever. Um,
00:32:43
Speaker
It didn't have a sex attached to it. Like it was just, they didn't get the right cells to, to call it, you know, ah ah genetically normal embryo. It was our practice round. were like, well, let's do it. We still have this other one in the bank that's, you know, tested in all the things.
00:32:57
Speaker
Yeah. And, uh, here he is, you know, so it's like all of it was, I went on this crazy spiritual woo woo journey and all of this. Like the psychic was like, you're going have a boy and he's going to be, you know, at this specific time. And it can't be, you know, she kept saying about like his due date, it had to be February, March.
00:33:19
Speaker
And I was like, and it literally all happened the way, I mean, people. That is wild. It's crazy. um And, and I remember looking at my doctor and I, and I said, the psychic says it's a boy. And she knew the gender of the other one. Cause we didn't want to know.
00:33:35
Speaker
And she goes, huh, interesting. Okay. And I was like, what does that mean? You know? And yeah, flow and behold she's probably thinking maybe we should do the other one. Cause I know for sure that one's a boy, you know, like, that one awful a boy yeah but, uh, but anyway, it ended ended up working, you know, it was just just amazing. Just amazing. I mean, really like just all of the things that can happen on a journey like this.
00:34:03
Speaker
And, you know, and again, I love, you know I love the fact, to your point, the support was so different during that time and gave you this. I love the fact that you were just so honest, right? Like I'm showing up. I can't pour out, but I'm showing up.
00:34:20
Speaker
And, you know, and and that really does make a difference when you're going through, you know, all of all of those things. We've kind of dabbled in it and we've, you know, teased and and whatnot. But let's get into the nitty gritty. What exactly is infertility unfiltered?
Founding Infertility Unfiltered
00:34:35
Speaker
Why did you, i mean, we kind of are, have already said the why, but like what really got you started in creating something like Infertility Unfiltered? So it was, it was when I was, um, my, my daughter was like three months old or four months old. I forget. I was in this like support group for new moms. It was called the new mom school. It's still a great, I send a lot of people there and like, it's great. It's like you get everything you need. They bring in experts similar to what we do.
00:35:01
Speaker
um And I said to the founder, like the the third weekend or something, I said, you know, women who want to become moms need this stuff too. Like we need education. We need to sit in circles and cry. Like yes all of this. And she said, I totally agree. You should do it. I'll give you my space. And I was like, what? like I won't charge you. Just do it. And I was like, I have a three month old baby.
00:35:24
Speaker
but okay, I'll say yes. There you go. So I did it and I literally just like built it overnight and I posted on Instagram. I said, who wants to show up and do the thing? We're doing a thing. build it up And we did it and I never looked back and COVID moved us virtually and now we're reaching people in other parts of the world. Like we have people yeah like in other countries joining at like three in the morning. It's insane.
00:35:49
Speaker
um But i similar to her structure, like I always give her the credit because it was like, we needed education and we needed support and we needed a community. right yeah So like I'm very, very particular about the experts I have. I vet them very hard.
00:36:05
Speaker
If they say one thing that I'm like, nope, you're out. Like, I'm just, I'm very protective over these, the people in our community, because I need to know that they have a safe place and that the the education they're getting, it is it aligned with the values that I believe in, which is transparency, openness, um you know, empowerment, yeah no shame, like no secrets. Like that's just not what we stand for. Although you can come to me and have shame and and think that it should be a secret that we will meet you where you are.
00:36:35
Speaker
But my goal is to help you lift the shame. My goal is to help you be empowered, to have your children be empowered to tell their story and to be prideful and to be proud. um My daughter is very proud to talk about it. It's pretty cute, which is what led us to the the kids book that I wrote.
00:36:52
Speaker
Yes, yes. The story that her and I came up together about a dinosaur, um ah a T-Rex mama and a brontosaurus egg that she hatches. And it was like, we just, because I started reading all the books to her about like the doctor and the mommy and the daddy were really sad. And like, they went, they needed a special gift. And she was like, this is dumb.
00:37:14
Speaker
why I don't, mama, I don't want to hear about doctors and like special gifts and stuff. And I was like, and she was so into, she was obsessed with dinosaurs. Um, all right, I'm just gonna make it my own story. And so we like we would change it every night and we'd switch it up, you know, and not that those books are dumb. Some kids love them. It's just, my daughter was just like, I don't want to know. never They're great.
00:37:34
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Books about animals. She was like, I don't want people books. I was like, okay. I don't want people books. Anytime I'd buy a book with like kids or people, she was like, no, this is boring. And I'm like, okay.
00:37:48
Speaker
<unk>s Yeah, she's very particular about her interests. um And so we kept telling the story. And one day I shared it on Instagram, our little dinosaur story. And an editor wrote reached out to me. She goes, you know, I think you should make a book. And I was like, what you mean? She's like, I'll help you.
00:38:04
Speaker
So she helped me put together like a a pitch book, pitch, like, you know, what do you call it? Kit or whatever. yeah And we started pitching publishers and it took me a year. oh my God. i And I got turned down left and right, left and right.
00:38:17
Speaker
And I even remember talking to this one like celebrity publisher. It was like a big deal that I got this intro. Yeah. This story is so good. She was like, it's really good. She said, the problem is it doesn't apply to everyone.
00:38:29
Speaker
And I said, no point. Yes. The whole point. That's what you're missing. um But caveat, it does apply to everyone because the kid, my kid is growing up with your kid.
00:38:42
Speaker
And I need to know that your kid is aware of families like this so that they can all be treated equally. So like, yes, it does actually apply to everyone. Oh, I really love that.
00:38:52
Speaker
Right. I really love that. And I was like, OK, maybe I'll just and made some tweaks to my story to make it more like any kid can read this book and like think it's funny and cute, but also get a message from it.
00:39:04
Speaker
Yeah. And then I got a new publisher. i literally the first phone call, she's like, I want to do it. I was like, okay. She's you need to think about it? I'm like, no, I don't. Like, I just had this connection with her.
00:39:17
Speaker
And so we published, it's the first like professionally published kids book about this. Everyone else has done it independently because no publisher would take them because it's just, like I said, too niche, but it's not, but it's not too niche.
00:39:29
Speaker
Exactly.
Publishing 'Our Hearts Match'
00:39:30
Speaker
I was going to say, how can this, how how can growing a family be niche period? Like, you know, right. It's all, which too, I don't think we've said the name of the book. It's called our hearts match it's beautiful. It's, I mean, it's just, it's absolutely gorgeous, but yes, exactly. To your point, your kid is growing up with my kid and everybody needs to know, you know,
00:39:51
Speaker
I think going back to what you said, right, from the very beginning, you growing up in a small town, you kind of only saw this like one particular like nuclear family type. That is not the case for the vast majority of Right.
00:40:08
Speaker
i mean really just because it doesn't
00:40:19
Speaker
people that are like that or other people that i'm going to meet that are like yeah Yeah. And it's cool to hear from families like traditional families. don't know to call them. yeah You know, when when they write a review and they're like, I'm so glad that I read this to my kids. Like they now were having these conversations. I never would have had these conversations otherwise because it wasn't my story to tell, you know, but it's like the the books about kids in wheelchairs aren't just for the kids in wheelchairs.
00:40:46
Speaker
Sure. They're for all kids, right? So it's like, this is no different. This is no different. Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Right? Yeah, yeah. No, you're so right. i always um I always say, I feel like adults, we make things way more complicated than they need to be. And the kids are just, you know, like, they really are just like, no, it just is what it is. You know, to to close point, like, I want to see animals.
00:41:10
Speaker
So the end, like, make me a book. Like, come on.
00:41:16
Speaker
they're true And kids, they're ready. Like parents are so afraid to talk to them. They're ready. Like they take things as they are They don't have these preconceived notions. We're the ones with that shit, you know? Yeah. i Well, this is another way to make a family. They go, oh, okay, cool.
00:41:32
Speaker
Great. yeah that's how we change the world, right? i mean. That's exactly how we change the world. Exactly. Yes. So going off of that, you know, i i love that you've said, you know, she is she is so proud of who she is. And you've mentioned how you have a lot of donor-conceived Persons come to your groups and you get that perspective and things like that as a parent and then also as a facilitator, how do you kind of navigate those conversations with her?
00:42:02
Speaker
Maybe those conversations with your family, people, just kind how do you navigate the world with just that. Yes. It takes a lot of practice is what mean.
00:42:15
Speaker
Um, because the first probably 400 times I tried to talk to my daughter, i was like, Oh, sure. Yeah. Crying and just, you know, not okay. But that's why I started when she was one day old, you know, um because she doesn't remember, she didn't know what I was saying. And I would just like yeah find different things.
00:42:35
Speaker
I bought all the books. I have every single book out there, literally. um And I probably, I learned from from some some things that I did that I probably talked about it too much because my daughter said enough about the eggs, okay?
00:42:49
Speaker
I get it. If I have questions, I'll ask you, mama. i Can we do some other books? Can we talk about other stuff? I'm like, yeah, sorry. Because I'd even try to read stories like, oh, but this,
00:43:02
Speaker
mama had to like do it different and then her kid and she's like you're trying to do it again you know
00:43:09
Speaker
So, so anyway, she keeps you honest. but off it with My son who's two now, I like, I don't, I won't say rarely. I talk about it with him. um He's still learning to speak. He has, we just found out he has a hearing issue that we've, he's going to okay. It's like, it's fixable, but um he's not talking yet. And so it's been, I'll say to him, like you were, it was a different person's egg, but you were in mama's tummy. Here's a picture, you know, and like we have yeah look at the books and stuff.
00:43:37
Speaker
But nowhere near. It's very different experience than with my daughter. But I was just like, you got to know this. You can't forget it. I got to tell you every day. you know, like sure. Not at all because they tell you like early and often ah and often to me, it was like every day, all day, you know.
00:43:53
Speaker
now now we talk about it more casually and I find ways to talk about the similarities that she has to her donor um or, you know, just like genetic traits that like maybe we don't know where she got it from. We'll say, oh, I wonder maybe that's from the egg donor, you know? Yeah.
00:44:11
Speaker
Shannon is her name. um And so, you know, we it's just, it's just very like open. And when it comes to family and friends, I think that was equally as hard as telling my child the first time, um you cause I am so open about it, but like talking about it face to face with someone who may something say something that's triggering makes it even harder, you know, when they say, like, I'll never forget this one very close friend of mine, three different occasions, she would call the donor, the mom.
00:44:42
Speaker
She said, well, does the mom have, don't know, blonde hair or whatever, you know, and there not the mom, you know, and And she would say, oh, sorry, you know what I mean. I'm like, no, no, no.
00:44:54
Speaker
I need you to understand that language is important. You know, like, I do know what you mean, but like, that's not the, those aren't the words that that we use. um Yeah, we're not gonna let this one slide.
00:45:05
Speaker
Like, i really need for you to hear this. Right. Um, and so like the, by the third time she was like, I'm so sorry. She was like, I'm so sorry. I don't know why I keep doing this. She was like, please make, please promise me that you won't, you'll always call me out.
00:45:19
Speaker
Like, cause she, I know she loves me and I know she knows that I'm the mom. Right. Yeah. But for some reason in her brain, cause it hasn't been rewired yet, like genetics equal that.
00:45:30
Speaker
Right. So like I give her some grace because I understand that she's coming to the table with like what she was given, right? Yeah, yeah. um But it's hard when you're grieving to be hit with that shit. Cause it's like, oh, you just stabbed me in the heart.
00:45:46
Speaker
Like and worry and fear. You just gave it to me straight, you know? Yeah. That's why I tell people like start with your safe people and your safe people aren't always who you think they are. A lot of times they're strangers. They're people that like me that have gone through it um and start like practicing with those people.
00:46:04
Speaker
before you move on to the people that you're like, I don't know like if they're really gonna get this and and just be prepared with some like, almost like an elevator pitch, you know? um yeah And then share resources. Like I have some, like, I have a few people that will follow me that are like the sister of a woman who's conceiving via via donor eggs or the mom of a woman who's conceiving.
00:46:28
Speaker
And they'll say, you've helped me so much to support my daughter better, to support my sister better. And I always say, you're a fucking good damn mother, you know, or sister.
00:46:39
Speaker
Like you're going out of your way. Like that's the way it should be. That's the support we all need. Yes. Well, and again, to your point, you know, having those people, like you said, go, I shouldn't say go out of their way, but take the time to learn and say things like, please correct me, you know, right? Know better, do better. And, you know, but what you don't, you don't know what you don't know.
00:47:02
Speaker
And so the fact that, you know, again, from what it was 10 years ago to now being able to have these resources to learning things like you don't say mom, you say donor, or if your person has a different word that they're comfortable with and learning what it means to respect the, you know, DCP donor conceived person community and what that looks like. And, you know, just all of those things like that.
Evolving Family Definitions and Support Systems
00:47:25
Speaker
It's amazing whenever people take the time to learn. Right, right. Yeah. And the terminology stuff that evolves too. Like, oh gosh, yeah. ah So much. And, and it's all going to be based on what my kids feel, you know, ah at the end of the day, they want to refer to her as their genetic mother, like I support that, you know, because scientifically that's true. That's, that is true. Um, you know, she, she's, I wouldn't say mom. Cause to me, mom is like an acting loving present person. Right. Yeah. Mom's the one who gets the band-aids.
00:47:58
Speaker
Yeah. Yes. <unk> not sleeping at night
00:48:07
Speaker
right um So, yeah, so I think it's just being open to the evolution of of what your child's journey is. Right. yeah Safe place for them.
00:48:18
Speaker
to feel and say whatever they need, they need, right? on And you can't get to that place without working through your own shit, right? can't your child out until you've faced those triggers and the grief and the and the trauma yourself. And I'm not gonna say you're ever gonna be fully healed. I mean, I think this is just something you learn to live alongside.
00:48:38
Speaker
um but with the right support and education and time, you can get to a place where it feels very comfortable talk about. I love that. Going going with that, and you know we've we touched on it a lot, but being being faced with that decision of okay, hey, this is how this path of egg donation is going to be how you know you become a parent What would maybe you say to those who are just struggling with that idea and thinking about all of these aspects, like you said, the you know, just genetic grief and thinking about having to
00:49:29
Speaker
Talk to families about this and thinking about, I mean, gosh, going and looking at your partner and exactly like what your husband said. I married you. I want to have a baby with you and navigating what it first of all, what it is as a woman to hear that. And then also wanting to, you know, support your spouse while you have nothing else to give in that moment. I mean, there's so much.
00:49:52
Speaker
what would you say to, and I mean, I know there's so much you can say, you have an entire support group about it, right? But maybe what are kind of those initial steps, I guess, as you know, someone is kind of faced with that and struggling with this shift.
00:50:06
Speaker
Yeah. I mean, the first thing is find your safe people, find your safe people and and start talking about it because feelings have to come out. They have to, you can't just push them down. It's just, that's,
00:50:17
Speaker
It's not for anybody. um Yeah. and And start there. you know it does And again, your safe person might not be your mom or your sister or your best friend. And that's okay.
00:50:28
Speaker
But you've got to find people that you can authentically, vulnerably say unfiltered all the things you need to say, hence fertility unfiltered, because we literally I say we meet you where you are.
00:50:40
Speaker
You can say you're mad at the world. You can say that you hate your sister right now because she got pregnant by accident. You can say that you are um Anything, you can say anything, you know? yeah um i just tell people, just show up. All I need to do is show up. You can be in bed, you can be on your pillow, you can have no pants on.
00:50:58
Speaker
You can be whatever need to do, just show up. Like, just like I yeah I showed up those times. i'm like, just be here and well we've got you. um yeah to me, that's like, that's the key to everything is just finding the right support system.
00:51:11
Speaker
Don't try to do this alone like I did. it doesn't work. It's impossible. It's literally impossible. And I think the other thing is just like, know that you're going to be okay. Like, you think people just get so worried and the what ifs and the fears and the, you know, just what could the future hold, but just know that like when you get there, you'll have the tools you need to to handle that moment.
00:51:36
Speaker
um And, and it's all going to be okay. You're going to be okay. No matter what happens, you're going to be okay. I love that. That's beautiful.
00:51:48
Speaker
I think and think it's just the greatest way to sum it up. You are, you're gonna be okay. Whatever okay looks like, yeah you're gonna be okay. And if you need somebody to hold you, I've got you. Like I will hold you. Like just DM Everyone knows my DMs are always open. I always respond. Sometimes it takes me a while.
00:52:04
Speaker
Sure. Voice message, you know, in the car, because I'm like, I need to just get this to you. But like, I can be your safe person. Like you just message me and I will talk you off the ledge. I've been in many bathrooms with many women over DM.
00:52:20
Speaker
I love it. many cars crying like I'm here. if you don't have anyone else, you have me. So you are not alone. That's beautiful. And no one should be alone. And I think that's one of the greatest things about this is that you're not alone. And what a show of how this is truly a community that is here and ready to support.
00:52:42
Speaker
Absolutely. Yeah. Oh my gosh. Yes. So for those who are looking for the community, We're going to have your links in show notes, but you can go to infertilityunfiltered.com, but you can also go to expectinganything.com. And that is specifically for egg donation and just resources around what it is to use a donor.
00:53:06
Speaker
Um, one last question. um and it's a fun one. It's a fun one. For anyone who knows me and you have seen me just sipping the whole way through, but, um coffee and i have a very codependent relationship and I just, you know, we, we can't start or get through the day without each other. have my Duncan right here.
00:53:29
Speaker
Yeah, there you go. Yes, exactly. I always like, sponsored. Yes. Although hit me up if you need to. But I always like to ask what filled your cup today? Literally or figuratively, what has been the thing that has filled your cup?
00:53:54
Speaker
I mean, it's only noon, but i would say,
00:54:00
Speaker
i mean, this conversation, honestly, i like knowing, that maybe I'm reaching at least one other person that, that needed to know, that they'd be okay.
00:54:11
Speaker
Yeah. It's really like, you know, I, I, like I said, everything's for you. Like this was for me to do this. Like this was the purpose that I made from this. Um, and so knowing that like, i I, could possibly have like given someone hope like that fills my cup for sure. Oh, I love that.
00:54:29
Speaker
I love that. I, and again, i mean, so grateful to you that you have chosen to take trauma and tragedy, find the beauty in that, and then pay it forward and be there to support others so that they weren't having your experience that you had of that loneliness and heartbreak. And instead it's, it's this community.
00:54:55
Speaker
Gosh. I mean, just amazing. Thank you. Of course. Thank you for having me. No, absolutely. Thank you so much. And yes, show notes, go check out Infertility Unfiltered and Expecting Anything.
00:55:09
Speaker
Thank you so much, Victoria. Thank you, Whitney. Thank you so much for joining us on this episode of Me, You, and Who. We appreciate your time and hope you enjoyed our discussion today.
00:55:22
Speaker
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00:55:43
Speaker
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00:55:58
Speaker
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00:56:09
Speaker
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00:56:23
Speaker
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