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136. Grief is a Complex Emotion-with Richard John Allen
102 Plays2 years ago
Richard John Allen, author of Keep Calm and Cope With Grief: 9 Chapters for Managing Fear and Grief When Losing a Parent or Loved One
The book provides a heartwarming resource for anyone currently dealing with grief due to a loss. It doesn’t matter if they have lost a loved one to suicide, a sudden accident, or a long-term illness, this book will guide them through the many layers of the ‘cloak of grief. Their loss could be recent, or it may have happened many years ago, grief does not hold itself to any time period. In this book, the audience will discover the different methods how to cope with grief and finding their own individual way to live in the new normal. Learn the steps to self-healing which will not only help the audience but also help them to help others who are grieving.
More about Richard John Allen in his own words:
“I have been fortunate enough to work for some of the world's largest corporations and have met a great many wonderful people giving me some amazing memories. But having recently lost my Father and Father In-law, I have decided to leave the corporate world and I'm now on a journey of writing books about losing a loved one.
I come from a religious family, and hold strong religious beliefs but I'm also open-minded, and as strong as my faith is, I also lean upon logic, facts, and common sense. At the early age of 16, I had a longing to become a priest but it never came to pass. My parents were shocked at the time but my life went in a different direction.
I believe that each and every one of us goes through life in a unique and special way. Whether we realize it or not, we are shown messages and signs, given skills and gifts, all of which can help us through the good times and bad. I hope to write and share with you not only my experiences but also share the research I have completed and the interviews I have conducted.”
Connect with Richard John Allen : https://www.facebook.com/GriefSupportGroup.LifeAfter
Buy his book on amazon: https://a.co/d/50iPKVw
Contact Kendra Rinaldi to be a guest on the show:
https://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com/
Recommended
Transcript
Introduction to Grief and Emotions
00:00:01
Speaker
Grief hit me like a sledgehammer and I've never experienced that emotion before. I didn't know what it was, I didn't know how to cope, what to do. One minute I was okay, I was
00:00:14
Speaker
thinking my dad's in a better place. He's not in pain now. And another time I just collapsed. I'd be crying. I'd be in tears. I'd be angry. I'd be lost. I had no energy, no appetite. It just went up and down. I just didn't know what grief was. It was truly strange. And these last two years, I haven't written my books. I've learnt so much.
00:00:36
Speaker
I now know obviously grief exists and grief is, in my opinion, probably the most complex of all of the emotions we have.
Exploring Grief and Gratitude with Kendra Rinaldi
00:00:49
Speaker
Hello and welcome to grief, gratitude and the Gray in between podcast.
00:00:57
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:01:13
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Richard John Allen on Coping with Grief
00:01:34
Speaker
Today on the podcast, I have author Richard John Allen, as his pen name is John Allen, to honor the memory of his father, whose name was John Allen. But we will be referring to Richard as Rich. He is the author of Keep Calm and Cope with Grief, nine chapters for managing fear, grief, and losing a parent or loved one.
00:02:05
Speaker
Welcome to the podcast, Rich. Hey, thanks for having me, Kendra. I'm glad to be here. Thank you.
00:02:12
Speaker
I am glad you are here as well.
Family Background and Cherished Memories
00:02:14
Speaker
So as people can hear, you have an accent. So I'd like to start off with sharing a little bit of where you're from and where you live. I know those are two different scenarios, but they're important to the story because as we navigate this journey of your life and what you mentioned in the book of your dad's passing, where you live and where he lived when he was ill do play a part. So where do you live now and where are you from?
00:02:42
Speaker
Okay well right now I live in North Carolina in the United States of course and I'm actually from Liverpool England and I moved to the States over 20 years ago now and so this is my home and my family are all back in England still in Liverpool pretty much and I have a 28 year old daughter Jessica who came to the United States with me so Jessica was
00:03:10
Speaker
eight years old at the time, and she's 28 now. So yeah, so our home is here in North Carolina, but my mother still lives back in Liverpool, and I have her sister, Jillian, who's married to Stephen, and they have two wonderful children. I have a niece and a nephew, Matthew and Rosie. They're two children, so yeah. It's beautiful. You know, as you're saying, Matthew's name, reading your book, the part of your dad's watch,
00:03:40
Speaker
I thought that was very thoughtful of you, by the way, that in that process of your mom saying here, here's your dad's watch, you can keep it you're like, you know, I know Matthew really loves
00:03:53
Speaker
yes watches right so would you like to share that little bit of the story and then then i'm getting goosebumps now because as many people have probably experienced when you lose a loved one the image is imprinted in your memory for the rest of your life and i i can
Experiencing Loss and Family Support
00:04:12
Speaker
see that moment right now I was fortunate to be there when my dad actually passed and he took his last breath and it was actually at my mum and dad's house we moved my dad from their bedroom into my old bedroom so my dad passed in my old bedroom
00:04:30
Speaker
and he was lying in the bed, I was holding his hand, my mum was holding his other hand and my sister was there, her husband and two children and sadly would watch my dad take his last breath and shortly after my mum said to me
00:04:49
Speaker
Rich, you know, would you like to have your dad's watch? And she removed it from his wrist and she gave it to me and she said, I think your dad would like you to have this. And I looked at it and of course, watch is still ticking. Time goes on. And I got so emotional. I thought, wow, what a wonderful gift from my dad and from my mom. But sorry.
00:05:15
Speaker
Looking at my nephew Matthew standing there, he was maybe 20 at the time. He was in tears devastated of course and I knew he collected watches and I thought what a wonderful thing for him to have his grandfather's watch. So I handed it to Matthew and I said just give me a favour.
00:05:37
Speaker
look after that watch from my dad. And he took it and he said, I will, I will. And that was a very special moment for all of us, really. Sorry. But yeah, that was, I do mention that in the book because it's moments like that, that are truly special, that you never forget. And that helps us get through grief. It really does. Because it's love.
00:06:06
Speaker
especially with your family. And I don't believe there's any stronger love. And that is one of my special moments in life.
Challenges of Grieving During COVID-19
00:06:15
Speaker
Yeah. It was beautiful. I just wanted to bring it up as you mentioned Matthew's name. I was like, oh, that's so thank you for sharing that. Now let's go into the circumstances of your father's passing. Your father was diagnosed of cancer, February 2020.
00:06:37
Speaker
And that's very significant because again, with the year of it being 2020, right? March then hit when we started lockdown. So can you go into that aspect of how it was you even managed to get to the UK to spend time? Because that
00:06:59
Speaker
in itself was probably jumping through a few hoops. So share the circumstances of that particular time period, please. Sure. So in February 2020, I mean, my father and I, we always texted each other. We sent text messages all the time, especially when there was soccer on the TV. We both support Liverpool.
00:07:23
Speaker
we texted each other all the time but this particular day I received a text and it it simply said hey son I've just got back from the doctors after a physical and they've given me the results I have cancer
00:07:40
Speaker
I'm riddled with it, as my dad said. There's no hope. They'll put me on chemo, but I will die soon. That's life. And I was obviously devastated. I wrote straight back and said, dad, can we please do FaceTime? And he said, no, I'm too emotional. So I said to Alison, my fiance, I said, we need to go over now.
00:08:07
Speaker
so like as you just mentioned it was during or at the start of this pandemic so we thought well can we get flights will it be difficult do we need to be vaccinated is that a quarantine process it was all of this kind of panic but we did some research and we found that we could fly to the UK and so we did we got a flight out there straight away and of course we wore masks and as everybody else was
00:08:34
Speaker
What time period was that? What month did you fly? This was at the end of February. Oh, also right before it actually hit here in the US. Talk about the timing. Exactly. And many people at the airports and on the flights were wearing masks. So I guess, you know, it was in the media, it was in the news, but it wasn't quite, it wasn't mandatory or anything. So there was still lots of people with no masks, but lots of people had masks on.
00:09:01
Speaker
And we got to England of course and went to see my mum and dad straight away and walked into the house and my dad was in the living room in the chair watching TV and I remember, you know, I walked in and he stood up, walked over to me and we just hugged each other. It was...
00:09:19
Speaker
It was shock. It was those five stages of grief. I guess it was denial for me. I was in that stage of denial. I was like, I can't believe this, dad. When you get cancer, typically you think, well, there's chemo or there's a cure. You can go through treatments. But my dad, I didn't really said no. They've already told me it's in my kidney, it's in my liver, it's in my lungs. My body is full of cancer and there's nothing that you can do except slow it down with chemo.
00:09:50
Speaker
So we spent a week there with my dad, as much time as we could. And it was a wonderful time, but obviously a very sad time. And I could see the change in my dad. My dad was a very fit man. I mean, at the time he was what, 76.
00:10:09
Speaker
76 or 77 then. No, sorry, I beg your pardon, he was 79. My dad was 79 and he was physically active in every way, but he was slower. He was walking, you know, slowly everywhere, you know, around the house when we went to the local store. He just slowed down so I could tell something was not quite right. We all knew that, you know, but that's how it was affecting my dad with the cancer.
00:10:34
Speaker
So we came back to the United States, we came back home, myself and Alison. And of course, I wanted to go back straight away. And I'm telling my dad, I'm coming back and he kept saying no, no, no, it's too expensive. And then as you've mentioned, you know, the pandemic hit and there was all these lockdowns and
00:10:52
Speaker
restrictions and we couldn't anyway and my dad said you know you can't come into the UK they've blocked anybody coming in and it was horrendous for us so all I could do is chat with my dad via email or text which is horrible and you see these stories on the news at the at that time how people couldn't see family members and I can't imagine what other people went through because I know what I went through was bad enough
00:11:20
Speaker
And then it was in November that year, November 2020, when my sister sent me a message. And she said, it's time. You need to come back. And I told Alison, I said, we need to go. Unfortunately, Alison had some work commitments. So I said, okay, well, I'll go now.
00:11:48
Speaker
and you come over as soon as you can." And she said, okay, so that was all fine. So I flew out there on the Friday and the plane was empty. I was literally maybe one of 10 people on the airplane on an international flight. It was incredibly spooky and strange. And when I landed in London, there was nobody in the airport. In fact, I think they shut down several terminals
00:12:17
Speaker
because of the pandemic, there was no flights anywhere, very limited flights. And I remember when I was at London, I had to get to train to Liverpool, which is about a three hour journey on the train. So I had to buy a train ticket. The girl at the ticket office told me I was the first person she had seen all day. And I'm at London Heathrow.
00:12:37
Speaker
Oh, wow. It was like a horror movie. It was sci-fi. I mean, there was nobody, I'm pulling my suitcase and there's nobody around. Maybe a couple of staff security, but it was crazy. So I bought the ticket, got on the train. And in my mind, Kendra, all I could think about was, will I get there in time?
00:12:58
Speaker
Well, I get to my dad's house to see him one last time, because I had no idea if he was still alive. When my sister said, come over now. Dad's leaving us. Anyway, I got to Liverpool. I contacted my brother-in-law, my sister's husband, and said, can you pick me up? He said, sure. So he actually met me at the train station in Liverpool. We got to Mum and Dad's house, and I dropped the suitcase in the hallway, ran up the stairs to the bedroom as fast as I could.
00:13:28
Speaker
And I got the shock of my life. I walked into the bedroom. My dad was sitting up in bed watching a Clint Eastwood movie because he loved Clint Eastwood, a cowboy movie. And he looked in shock. I was like, what? And the first thing my dad said was, what are you doing here? He was annoyed with me because he didn't know I was coming. And I was like, dad, you're okay. And he goes, of course I am. Why are you here?
00:13:57
Speaker
So I climbed up onto the bed and I squeezed and I held him. And I couldn't let go. And I lay on the bed with Dad for maybe an hour, just talking to him. And I was just so happy. And I thought, this was in November, and I thought, he's going to be here for Christmas. He's going to be here. So I said to my sister, I said, let's go down and have a cup of tea.
00:14:27
Speaker
let that get some rest. So I went down with my sister and my mum. We had a cup of tea in the kitchen and we caught up. My mum told me all about the treatment and how my dad was and his food, how he was eating. And I was just in shock. I texted Alison back here in America to give her the good news. I said, my dad is fine. I said, don't come over just yet. It looks good.
00:14:54
Speaker
Well, that was Saturday, of course. I left here on the Friday. I got to England on Saturday.
Understanding the Complexity of Grief
00:14:59
Speaker
Well, 48 hours later, my dad passed. Just two days. It's hard to explain how he faded so quickly. Incredible to be, to see him walk from the bedroom to the bathroom and talking to him. And then two days later, he's gone and you're holding his hand, watching him take his last breath.
00:15:23
Speaker
It's a shock to the system, it really is. But thankfully I was there, the family was there, my mum, my sister and Stephen and the kids. So of course I sent a message to Alison, get over here as quick as you can. And again, because of the flights and the difficulty, she didn't get there in time for dad's passing, but she did get over the following week. And because again, because of the pandemic,
00:15:52
Speaker
couldn't have the funeral as quickly as we wanted we had to wait three weeks and again because of the limitations we could only have 30 people at the funeral and my dad was very
00:16:08
Speaker
popular in the town, I mean, family. Yeah, I mean, there was literally maybe 100 people outside of the church, but inside the church there was 30. It was so sad. But at least those people were outside the church to honor my father and show him the respect, you know, of his life. But the whole experience
00:16:37
Speaker
was just a nightmare, you know, it was just a shock. I guess however you go through losing a loved one is regardless of the actual situation. And honestly, Kendra, I've never experienced grief. I'm 56 years old now, and I guess I've been lucky, but until my dad passed two years ago, I've never experienced grief. I mean, my grandparents died when I was young.
00:17:04
Speaker
You know, when I was five or six years old, I lost both my grandfathers. My grandmothers passed when I was 16 and 18. So again, I was too young to really grieve or feel grief. But being 54, I guess, when my dad passed, grief hit me like a sledgehammer. And I've never experienced that emotion before. I didn't know what it was. I didn't know how to cope, what to do.
00:17:31
Speaker
One minute I was okay. I was thinking my dad's in a better place. He's not in pain now. And another time I just collapsed. I'd be crying. I'd be in tears. I'd be angry. I'd be lost. I had no energy, no appetite. It just went up and down. I just didn't know what grief was. It was truly strange. And these last two years, I haven't written my books. I've learnt so much.
00:17:57
Speaker
I now know, obviously, grief exists, and grief is, in my opinion, probably the most complex of all of the emotions we have, whether it's, you know, happiness, sadness, joy, you're scared, whatever the emotion is, I think grief is by far the worst. I really do.
00:18:20
Speaker
It is what you mentioned about it being complex is so true because it can encompass all the all these other emotions within it. So therefore, it is like this little bottled up
00:18:36
Speaker
calling grief, but it can have, there's joy within grief because you were thinking of the loved one. There's love within grief. There's anger within grief. There's guilt within grief. There's all these other emotions wrapped up in it that then you cannot pinpoint
00:18:57
Speaker
which one, what it is. And so it is a good way of saying it, that it's a very complex emotion. You are totally right.
Stages of Grief and Personal Reflections
00:19:08
Speaker
Let's talk about that aspect. You mentioned a little earlier on about
00:19:14
Speaker
all the different emotions of grief or stages, as you mentioned, and you do talk about it in your thoughts about Kubler Ross's theories of the five stages of grief.
00:19:28
Speaker
If you can touch on that, we know she wrote it more about like the experiences of a terminal patient and more of their grief themselves. And we as society have kind of taken it as making it be that it's even just those of us that are grieving the passing of a loved one as if those stages also happen sometimes to us. And as we know, it doesn't necessarily come in those steps like that per se in an order.
00:19:57
Speaker
Take us into your thoughts on that and your own experience, because again, all this is our own personal experience and how we relate to grief. So what was your experience regarding those emotions and stages of grief?
00:20:11
Speaker
Sure. So again, before this happened two years ago, I had never heard of Elizabeth Kubler Ross. I'd never heard of the five stages of grief that she describes. And just to recap, so you have denial, bargaining, anger, depression, acceptance. Those are the five. And as you've just said, they don't come in that particular order.
00:20:37
Speaker
and many doctors and scientists and psychiatrists have now said well there's actually more than five stages and as we've just mentioned it is complex and you can break down each of those five into subcategories you know you can just go on and on forever but for me personally looking back now
00:20:57
Speaker
It is totally random. I mean, one minute I can find acceptance and I can be happy that I had such a loving, kind and caring father as I did with my dad.
00:21:10
Speaker
so many wonderful memories it was such a traditional upbringing for me with a mum and dad and a sister it was the four of us and we celebrated birthdays and christmas and holidays together you know my dad worked nine to five my mum stayed at home to raise me and my sister so it was very traditional in that respect and coming from Liverpool we didn't have much money
00:21:34
Speaker
So we had everything we needed. My dad always provided for us. But my mum would bring us up with so much like happiness. Like she would say things like, switch the television off, we're going to play a game. And we play charades or Monopoly or mousetrap or some a board game, you know. And there was a memories that
00:21:59
Speaker
keep you going. They really do. And I reflect on them all the time. And I'm always talking about my dad and my mom and how I was brought up to Alison, my fiance, or to my daughter, Jessica. Because I think that's important. I think maybe that's one of the stages of grief is storytelling. You need to do that to honor your loved one. And not only does that help you, but that can help others.
00:22:28
Speaker
You know, I truly believe that, but the more we talk to each other about our loved ones, the good times and the bad, I think that really helps us. And I've heard things from so many other people now that have written these books, you know, when you do your research. And I'm learning all the time. I'm like, wow, I never thought of it that way. I never thought of it this way.
00:22:54
Speaker
It helps me. It's very therapeutic. It really is. But those stages of grief that Kubla Ross talks about, for me, like I said, I didn't know about them before, and they hit me randomly. I can tell you now, it was probably two weeks ago, I was in my front yard cutting the grass, pushing the lawnmower, and I broke down in tears from my dad.
00:23:18
Speaker
It just, it comes out of nowhere. One minute, I had my headphones on listening to music. I was happy. You know, I was okay. You know, I'm getting through the day. I'm cutting the grass. And suddenly I just think of my dad and boom, my heart's pounding. I'm in tears. I've got a runny nose. I'm a mess. It's like, get a grip, Richard. You know, come on. You can cut the grass for goodness sake. Oh my goodness.
00:23:48
Speaker
Thank you so much for sharing those and the part of storytelling. As we're talking about, there's two questions that came to mind as you were sharing. So storytelling wise, I would love for you to share a story. You mentioned the memory of your mom bringing out the board games and you guys playing board games. What is a story you'd like to share about your dad that would give us a glimpse into his personality of something that you remember or something somebody shared with you that you might have not
Triggers and Emotional Memories
00:24:15
Speaker
heard you know because that's a thing when people it's like oh your dad did this and this for me or you know so what are some something that comes up to mind okay that's a quick question um well since we're around the holidays around christmas i'll share a christmas story um now this this reflects badly on me being bad but but good obviously for my dad so what happened this particular christmas i was maybe 10 or 12 years old
00:24:44
Speaker
And as a little boy, I had lots of those matchbox cars, you know, the toy cars, and I had soldiers and all the typical little boy things, you know, but I used to play with my cars a lot and I always wanted a garage or a garage.
00:24:59
Speaker
I guess you pronounce it. It's okay. I'm sure there's people from England that are listening to this, to this podcast too. You can say, Garrett, you can say however it comes up for you. English is my, I grew up with two languages. I know you're, you're bi-cultural yourself too with the mom that's from Portugal, but
00:25:20
Speaker
She didn't speak Portuguese growing up, right? She didn't grow up with Portuguese at all. So I also, I have an accent as well. So go ahead, continue. So you wanted a garage or garage. Go ahead. You wanted a garage or garage.
00:25:34
Speaker
and I told Santa that's what I wanted because obviously at that age I still believed in Santa and I was like oh my god you know it was getting closer and closer to Christmas Christmas Day arrives and again very traditional me and my sister wake up early four or five in the morning Christmas morning but we're not allowed to go downstairs until my mum and dad wake up so we wait and we wait and they wake up and
00:26:00
Speaker
The four of us walk down the stairs together to go into the living room where the tree is with the presence under the tree. So we did and we did that. I left the house when I was 21 and we still did that when I was 21. It was a tradition anyway.
00:26:16
Speaker
That day, Christmas morning, I went down the stairs with Mum and Dad and my sister, going to the living room. He's been, he's been, Santa's been. There's presents all around the tree. So me and my sister were opening all the presents and I saw one present and I thought, that's gotta be the garage. That's the garage. It just looked like, you know, it was wrapped that way. It's like, oh my God, I was so excited. Well, I took the wrapping paper off and it wasn't a garage. It was a castle.
00:26:46
Speaker
to put my soldiers in. And I was devastated. I was so upset. I was crying. I was fussing at my mum and dad saying, I didn't want this. I didn't want this. I wanted the garage. Where am I going to put my cars? So my dad got upset with me. He picked up the castle and he said, you know what? You don't deserve this. He took it out into the backyard and he threw it in the trash can.
00:27:10
Speaker
And my mum said to me, you have ruined Christmas because I was acting like a spoiled brat. And she was absolutely right. When I look back now, absolutely. And the day went on and we had our Christmas dinner and gradually I calmed down and I creepingly went up to my dad and I said, dad, I'm sorry. Can I have my castle back?
00:27:33
Speaker
And he said, okay, as long as you promise that, you know, you'll say you're sorry. And I said, yes, I'm sorry, dad. So he went out into the yard, he gets the castle out of the trash can, gives it to me. And I remember putting my cars in the castle. I was thinking, I pretended it was a garage. Which is, anyway, that's kids and imagination, right? And I'll never forget that moment because my dad,
00:28:00
Speaker
was so forgiving, considering I acted so badly and so poorly, acting like a spoiled brat, but he showed mercy, he showed his love and he forgave me and he said, there you go, son, you can have your castle. And we ended up having a wonderful Christmas, so. Oh, wonderful. And now you have a memory and a story to share. That's wonderful. The other question that came to mind was, as you were mowing the lawn and you start crying,
00:28:30
Speaker
You talk in your book regarding triggers and how to recognize some of these things that come up that maybe bring up these emotions. Sometimes we don't know what it may be. And in that moment of you mowing the lawn, who knows what it was? Or maybe you do kind of recognize something that might have occurred that brought up all of these emotions. But can you talk about
00:28:55
Speaker
that and how people can yeah the different ways in which sometimes grief creeps up. Yeah so so those triggers again it's random right you just never know
00:29:06
Speaker
when it's gonna happen. And my dad used Old Spice cologne. And my mum, I've been over to England several, many times now to see my mum and support her as best I can. And it's nice that she has not removed anything from the house of my dad's. His tools are still in the shed where he left them. His coat is still in the closet. His shoes are still in the cupboard. Even in the bathroom when I visit,
00:29:33
Speaker
and I'm in the bathroom, I open the kitchen, sorry, the kitchen, the bathroom cabinet and his razor is still there and his shaving cream and his old spice. So I know since my dad's passing, I could be in a local restaurant and somebody may walk past me wearing gold spice and that smell, that scent will bring back the memory of my dad. I can hear a song
00:30:00
Speaker
on the on the tv or the radio and it'll bring back a memory i can be on youtube and watching an old british comedy show a clip and it'll bring back those memories and i would i wouldn't like to put a number that it's 50 50 but some of the time i'll be upset and i'll cry because obviously i'm thinking of my dad and i miss him so so much but in other times i'll be happy in the sense of
00:30:29
Speaker
was my dad and I'm so proud, you know, I love him so much and it brings back a wonderful memory for me and I can be happy about that, you know, and I mention it in my first book, Keep Calm and Coat with Grief, that I'll never let that go, just because he's passed from this life, this world, doesn't mean he's gone for me,
00:30:54
Speaker
I mentioned in the book, my dad is beside me right now. He still guides me in life. I still talk to him out loud. I still send him text messages. I know that might sound strange, but I have his phone number still on my phone. And from time to time, I'll send him a text.
00:31:12
Speaker
He hasn't responded. And your mom hasn't canceled the account yet that somebody else will end up responding to that text yet. So you're fine. You're fine keeping it there. Until that numbers change, you may want to remember that so that that person receiving on the other end is not like. Who is this? Yes, that's right. But even.
00:31:36
Speaker
like what traditionally and many many people do this for somebody's birthday you send them a birthday card and a wedding anniversary you send them an anniversary card Christmas a Christmas card I still do that now
00:31:51
Speaker
Just because my dad isn't with us on this earth doesn't mean he's gone. I send my dad a birthday card for the last two birthdays, two years. I send it to my mom and dad's house, of course. My mom opens the card, she puts it on the mantelpiece. For Christmas, last week, I sent my mom and dad a Christmas card to mom and dad. I'm wishing you a Merry Christmas, lots of love, Richard and Alison. You know, I still do that.
00:32:18
Speaker
it just because of their passing doesn't mean they've gone from your life. I personally don't believe that's just how I am and what I shared in my books. I think it's important to do that. It's very, you're honoring your loved one. It's not letting them go and you shouldn't let them go. I'm a firm believer in that there is life after this and they are still with us.
00:32:45
Speaker
I'm a firm believer in that. And I know we all have different opinions, and I respect that. But for me, my dad is still here. He's still with me. He helps and inspires me. And I have difficult times, as I'm sure you do, and everyone does. And I'll lean on my dad. I'll call upon him and say, please, dad, give me strength. I need to get through this. It is as if we have this
00:33:09
Speaker
extra little, you know, we have this little kind of inside person there that we can call upon to give us a little extra nudge and help. I want to talk about that the part of signs and some of the signs and ways in which you feel you've received messages then from your dad and those connections. And again, I know you're very clear in the book regarding as anybody that's reading this,
00:33:37
Speaker
And as we're reading this, you share your story. I'm going to backtrack a little. You share your story. But within that, there are all these different tips as well and lists and chapters as to what it is to do. So you've intertwined your own story as you're also giving some tips to the reader. So it's really helpful because you kind of do that. But you also say, this is my perspective, and you're completely
00:34:07
Speaker
allowed to have your own to the reader he does there but this is just how I experience grief. So let's talk about science and continuing that relationship and bond with your dad. Yeah so as I mentioned before you know I had no experience of grief I didn't know
00:34:25
Speaker
grief existed so when my dad passed it was all new to me this emotion so that the book Keep Calm Caught with Grief as you mentioned shares my journey and also shares the research and the things that I found out along my journey you know for example obituary I'd never written an obituary before or did a eulogy at the funeral I had to stand in front of my family and
00:34:50
Speaker
and give the eulogy. So I talk about, I'm giving tips on how to do that. The will, oh my gosh, we messed up with the will, my God's will. Oh yes, about what to do with his body, correct? Yeah, but yeah, so even that, so that would be, that would be a tip, tip for someone is that maybe just peek at least in the will shortly right after, but it wouldn't, the circumstances still would have still made it different.
00:35:17
Speaker
anyway based on how it was you know during the time period that he passed but anyway the readers can the listeners can go and read that part of chapter continue sorry with the signs my apologies so so the signs so again signs i hadn't really given much thought in the whole of my life from my grandparents and such although i do share a story in my second book life after this
00:35:42
Speaker
about a sign I received from my grandfather and oh my goodness and that was
00:35:49
Speaker
20 some years ago, 25 years ago. I was still living in England at the time. But anyway, but for my dad.
Spiritual Signs and Connections
00:35:56
Speaker
So what happened after my dad's passing was in my mom's house, they have radiators around the house which heat the house. They're full of hot water and they heat the house. And what my mom would do, she would put wet clothes. Mom and dad didn't have a clothes dryer. So with the wet clothes out of the washing machine, they were put on the radiators to dry.
00:36:17
Speaker
Anyway one day I was helping mum with the laundry and I found a white feather on the floor and I had no idea how it got there you know it's just a white feather I was like wow that's odd so I picked it up I showed it to my mum and she was in shock and she said wow you know what that means don't you and I said no and she said that means your dad is near
00:36:40
Speaker
I said, really? And then she explained to me about this Christian faith thing about white feathers is a sign that there's an angel nearby and such. And so of course I tend to Google, I did some research and short enough, there's all this information on this. And I was like, wow, I didn't know that. And then since then I'm finding feathers in the most strangest and bizarre places. Um,
00:37:07
Speaker
I'll give you an example. Again, I believe I mentioned this in my third book called Nature's Reach. So my daughter's just given birth. She's 28. She's just had a baby, so now a grandfather. Congratulations. Thank you. And myself and Alison, we drove out to see my daughter for the birth.
00:37:27
Speaker
So we're at the hospital. This is before Jessica gave birth. We're at the hospital waiting and she's going through contractions and such, but it was slow. And we said to Jessica and the doctor, we're going to go out for lunch real quick. Half an hour, we'll be back. Doctor said, okay, you'll be fine. So we get in the car and we went to the nearest Chick-fil-A, right? So we're in traffic in the car, driving to Chick-fil-A, and we stopped at a red light. Now out of nowhere,
00:37:55
Speaker
a feather, a white feather landed on the windshield of my car, right in front of me. So I'm driving and it landed right in front of my line of sight, not in front of Alison on the passenger seat, but in front of me, right there. And I was in shock. I looked at Alison, she looked at me and we were like, what the? And then as quick as it landed, maybe five seconds, it flew off in the breeze in the wind and disappeared.
00:38:22
Speaker
we were like oh my gosh is that your dad is he here for his grandchild to be born is it a sign from your dad now again i mentioned this in my books i'm open-minded it could be a coincidence it could be just random right but what if it is a sign i can't
00:38:43
Speaker
you know, discount that. I can't just say no, I don't believe because I do believe so. Could it have been a sign? Absolutely. I truly believe that was a sign for my dad, you know. And I think that
00:38:55
Speaker
what is important is really, what is that bringing to the greever in that moment? If it's bringing that hope and that connection, then why not hold on to that, that being a sign? And I believe that that's something that as we experience grief, each of us uniquely, if we see things that we feel connect us to our loved ones, and again, it brings comfort to our soul, then
00:39:23
Speaker
Take it as that. Take it. Take it as whatever you want it to mean in that moment. Right. Right. I mean, believe. I mean, I'll tell you another quick one. I was sitting here at my desk. I was in the middle of writing the second book, Life After This. And I was tired. Right. You know, you're in the book. You're doing all this research. I was like, I need to take a break. And of course, I'm thinking about my dad constantly while I'm writing these books. And I called out to my dad. I said, dad, you know,
00:39:53
Speaker
I hope you're okay. I miss you so much. I said it out loud in the office and I'm sitting here and I thought, I need a break. Now.
00:40:04
Speaker
Me personally, when I take a break on the computer, I look at cars and trucks. So I went on to- They're just not your matchbox cars. Do you have a garage now for your cars now, Rich? Yes, I only have one car though. Okay. Yeah, you're a little one. So you go online and look at cars.
00:40:25
Speaker
Yeah, so I find this website that sells trucks and cars, and I click on trucks, and there's thousands and thousands of trucks. I click on a truck by random, and I remember there was 55 photographs of this particular truck. So I click. And of course, I'm thinking of Dad, and I'm wondering if he's OK. And I'm going through the photographs. There's a photograph of the front of the truck, of the side, of the back, of the tires. And then there's inside the truck.
00:40:56
Speaker
And there's a photograph of the dashboard, which shows the steering wheel, but also the touchscreen, you know, the infotainment touchscreen thing. And on the screen was the radio station and it had the outside temperature and the time. And the song that was playing on the radio at the time when this person took the photograph, the song was called, I Am Alive.
00:41:26
Speaker
And I was floored. And I was like, holy, you know, I was like, I literally two minutes prior said, dad, I hope you're okay. I don't know where you are, but I love you. I hope you're with me. And then I'm looking at this truck. I'm not joking. Literally two minutes later and I see this photograph and it says, I am alive.
00:41:54
Speaker
So I took a screenshot and I kept it, and I told Alison, and she was like, oh my God, that's a sign from your dad. It has to be. And I was like, it has to be, doesn't it? I mean, it could have been any random truck, any picture, any radio station with a song, but it said, I am alive. I mean, I take that as a sign. I really do. And out of 55 pictures, by any chance were you 55 at that time? I'm just... Yeah, I can't remember. I think it was probably halfway through. Yeah, and I'm like,
00:42:23
Speaker
it just blows you away that random timing whatever you want to call it it's just I take these as signs and I've got many more that I could share with you on my of what's happened that I've mentioned in my books it's just it really makes confirms you know I absolutely believe that there is life after this our life doesn't end on this earth
00:42:49
Speaker
And now, now I know that you've written then another one because I did not know you had already written. Have you published life after this already? Has it? I've just, yeah, my third book is called nature's reach, which is my third book. And that's about how I've used nature. Well, I didn't use nature. Nature was just there, but nature has helped me with grief and being very therapeutic. So I've written a whole book about how nature can help us.
00:43:19
Speaker
and enough time. Well, just even the fact of feathers, right? That's our connection there with nature as well. And you talk about other people may be experiencing other signs, because of course, you've done research as to what other people see and what they relate to connected with a loved one, like butterflies and other other things within nature that may connect the other one, which
00:43:43
Speaker
I remember very clearly for me, have happened feathers. By the way, I actually documented a lot of feathers that I would see on walks often after my mom died.
00:43:54
Speaker
And I was actually posting them on Instagram, like within one walk, walking my dogs, I could see five feathers within like the walk. Yes, of course, it could have been the time that the, you know, birds are changing. But the fact that I was seeing like this little single feather here, over here, the little, a little feather would fly into my backyard and just be floating in this little teeny white feather.
00:44:17
Speaker
what it meant for me was that that was a connection. But the other one that what that you mentioned of these signs and messages was the part of when you're looking for something and you've looked in one place and
00:44:31
Speaker
And then you don't find it. And then all of a sudden you go back to looking for that. And then it's there in the same place you've already searched. That happened to me after my sister died. And I remember that before I searched, it was like, okay, I need to find this key. I was asking her, it was a key to her desk. I had already searched in a little box on her desk in which I thought it would be and it wasn't there. And I said,
00:44:57
Speaker
is you're on a place. I really need to find this key to open your desk. It was to get some of the letters that people had written to her so that I could just mail them back to the recipients. Basically, I didn't want my dad to go through all the letters of other people that had written to her. I wanted the people to still have their privacy just because she had died didn't mean we had to read their lives.
00:45:22
Speaker
And then all of a sudden, you know, after I said that, it was like right away, I put my hand right back to that same little box, and there was the key. So when I read that part of your book of the things, I was like, Oh, yeah, that happened to me. So I could relate, I could relate. It is real. And, and now for those people that have not maybe
00:45:44
Speaker
felt or realized or seen signs. What would we say to people that maybe have not had dreams or not had things that they could visit? Because it's true, not everybody necessarily feels they've seen it or perceived and that's okay too. It doesn't mean that they're not.
00:46:01
Speaker
with you, right? Yeah, exactly. And I have a good friend of mine that I meet regularly for coffee, and he doesn't believe in the signs. His father passed away 30 years ago, I think he told me, and he said he's never received the sign. So he doesn't believe. And I said to him, well, maybe that's because your dad doesn't feel you need a sign right now.
00:46:25
Speaker
you know when you need it most that's when you'll get that sign and it's not for us to judge when that timing is. I can't say let's say you're going for a job interview or you're doing something that where you need some strength or support and so you call out I need a sign from you from your past loved one and you just expect the sign to appear it really doesn't work that way.
00:46:49
Speaker
you know, you just get signs at randomly and you could be having a great day, you might feel strong, you might feel, you know, comfortable in everything that you do in that particular day and you receive a sign and you're wondering why, why did I get that sign? It doesn't matter the reason why, you know, it was needed for whatever reason you might not understand but that sign was meant for you and you saw that sign. So for my friend who doesn't believe
00:47:19
Speaker
and hasn't received one, I told him, I said, well, still believe because it can happen. And when you need it, it'll come to you, you know, but that's what I would say. And sometimes other people receive the signs to then go and tell you that they've heard it. And sometimes that sign was, they might have received it, but it was really meant for you. And because maybe that person's more perceptive to receiving dreams or things like that, that might
00:47:46
Speaker
So just be open to hearing if someone shares something about your loved one too. I think that's an important point. If you keep an open mind, and I mentioned this several times in the books, just relax. Don't block anything out. Just be calm as you can be and be open-minded.
00:48:02
Speaker
and you'll find that you'll be more receptive and you'll see these signs. But it's something you can't force or put pressure on. I mean, if it was really that easy, I would be getting responses from my dad by text. If I sent him a text and said, hey, dad, I need your help, and he wrote back, OK, what can I do? But it doesn't work that way. You don't get those signs quite like that. It would be wonderful if it was, but it doesn't work that way. It's a little different communication, yes.
00:48:29
Speaker
I want to ask you, Rich, how different is your life now than it was prior to your dad passing
Impact of Grief on Career and Growth
00:48:39
Speaker
away? How different is Rich? You mentioned now you're writing. You're on your third book. So I want to touch on that and your change of career and just everything that's come about and who you feel you are now as who you were.
00:48:59
Speaker
prior to your dad dying? Yeah, so, you know, at the start of the pandemic, I was working for an insurance company. I've been there 15 years, loved it, work with a great group of people, but they closed the head office, so I lost my job. And my dad was with us at the time, and I was talking to my dad via text, and he's always been there for me, still is. And he was giving me inspiration, saying, you'll find another job and such.
00:49:26
Speaker
Then of course we go through the cancer thing and he passes. And I've always been a doodler or a scribbler, you know, making notes and keeping journals. We went on vacation and I'd take a journal and it's always nice to read through your journal. It's very personal. You don't have to share your journal with anybody, but I would quite often look at old journals and read through and, you know, it's spark a memory.
00:49:49
Speaker
And I was making notes and scribbling things down. Obviously, when I did the eulogy and the obituary from my dad, I had all these pieces of paper and it was my fiancé, Alison. She said to me, why don't you write a book? I was like, no, I've never written a book in my life. I can't do that. She goes, Rich, you'd be really good. Please do it. So I sat down. I lost my job, as I said. So I started writing this book and
00:50:15
Speaker
of put it together and I was like okay I found somebody who could edit it for me and then format it and before you know it's up on Amazon and without even thinking about it I guess the next stage for me Kendra was I'd lost my dad but then it was I guess the scientific side of me wanted to know where is he you know I believe in heaven but I wanted proof I wanted to know he was there I wanted to know dad was okay
00:50:44
Speaker
And that's why I wrote the book, Life After This. I did all this research about Egyptians and Greeks and what they perceive life after death was and people who experience near-death experiences, people who literally die, what they see and experience and come back to life. So I interviewed people and that's in my book, Life After This. So I went through all of that because I wanted to know
00:51:07
Speaker
is my dad truly okay I needed proof you know and then of course I'm getting these signs from dad and I do a lot in this book about signs from loved ones and absolutely 100% I truly believe but as far as it changing my life
00:51:25
Speaker
my dad's passing I've gone in a different direction certainly with my career now because I'm writing books about grief and losing a loved one but on a personal level I can no longer text my dad about soccer games well I guess I could
00:51:40
Speaker
But we don't do it on a, you know, my dad doesn't respond, but I know he can hear and see me. But I do still do those traditional things of sending birthday cards, anniversary cards, Christmas cards. I constantly ask my mum, I did yesterday on WhatsApp, how are you mum? How are you doing for Christmas? And we talk each week. And she said, well, good days and bad days, son, you know, we were over there only a couple of months ago.
00:52:09
Speaker
And we'll go over early in the new year, I know, to see Mum and help her. But it's a difficult time. And I guess you have to remember it's not just you that's going through this loss or this grief, right? You've got your immediate family, your friends, your neighbors, even whoever that lost loved one is, other people will be grieving too. And it's, again, maybe therapeutic to help other people.
00:52:36
Speaker
and because you're in this together you know and that's another um support mechanism that you can use is for me anyway being being around people especially family because there's so much love and history there they can support you as much as you support them and you don't have to do anything in particular just be there just be you and and talk about your your past loved one honor and respect them you know share those stories talk about like my dad
00:53:06
Speaker
didn't cook, right? My mum did all the cooking except for Christmas day. That was my dad's day. He cooked every Christmas dinner. He did the breakfast and the dinner. So for breakfast, we always had pancakes and ice cream. For dinner, it was always the turkey with the vegetables and so on. And my dad's day was Christmas day. And I'll never forget those. And now, of course, my mum does Christmas dinner.
00:53:32
Speaker
But we talk about it all the time, you know, about how my dad enjoyed doing the Christmas Day dinner. And it's important to do that. I think people should talk about the loved ones. It's important. Thank you so much for sharing all these different
00:53:50
Speaker
stories as well as tips for the listeners and in the book. And I'll just pluralize it in your books. I've only read one. But in your books, they can even dive deeper into all these different layers. So in order, order wise, would someone then start with keep calm, then go to life after this?
00:54:14
Speaker
Yeah, that's been my journey Kendra, so keep calm and cope with griefers. Finding out your loved one has a terminal illness, going through the loss, you know, the obituary, the eulogy, reading of the will, supporting your loved ones at that time. And so that book is certainly helpful in that respect. Life after this talks about more of the signs, you know, past civilizations and the signs that you can receive and how you can communicate with your loved ones.
00:54:43
Speaker
as I say you can't pick up the telephone right but you can pray to them you can light a candle you can honor them in different ways you can go and sit on their favorite park bench you can take up a hobby that your loved one had now you can pick up that hobby in honor of them there's so many things but that's mentioned in that book or I want it sorry I want to interject one second or in your case you chose to use your dad your middle name John
00:55:09
Speaker
for your penment. And that's your way of honoring your dad in your books is that you chose your middle name.
00:55:16
Speaker
which is your dad's only name as your, that's another way of continuing. Correct, yeah, exactly. John Allen, my dad's name is my pen name. And then finally, my latest book came out in October on Amazon, Nature's Reach, Coping with Grief, the Natural Way. Now, I'm not trying to say that psychologists or psychiatrists or doctors and medicine and medication doesn't work because I know it does.
00:55:41
Speaker
All I'm simply saying in nature's reach is that nature is here to help us too with our grief and I'm very blessed to live actually in the countryside kind of. I have trees all around me and I have deer and squirrels and possums and ducks and all these animals that I feed by hand.
Nature and Spirituality in Healing
00:56:00
Speaker
And they become my friends. I give them names. So nature's right here. And it's helped me. I talk to them about my problems. It might sound stupid and silly, but it helps me, you know, it's a wonderful experience. And it's again, that word therapeutic. It helps me get through the day and get through my life and keeps me going, you know.
00:56:21
Speaker
Thank you. So the best way to find these would be on Amazon, or do you have a website as well that people can go to straight to find more about you and these folks? I'm working on the website, but for now it's just Amazon. And on Amazon, if you click on the author's name, John Owen, it will take you to the author page in Amazon. And there you'll read more about me, and it will have my email address if you want to write to me too. Yes.
00:56:48
Speaker
Perfect. Now I always ask this when I'm closing off in an interview, is there anything I did not ask you that you would like to share with our listeners or anything else you'd like to say? I would just say, especially because of the holidays,
00:57:10
Speaker
honor your loved ones in the sense of, or simply remember your loved ones. I know we will, but it's okay to talk about them. And it's okay to cry. I mean, I cry, I'm emotional now more than ever before. You know, I cry a lot, unfortunately, sometimes, but that's okay. Don't be afraid, even in front of family, friends and neighbors,
00:57:37
Speaker
it's okay to be that way. That shows how much you loved for that person. The fact that you're crying is a sign of that love so be proud of that, embrace it and look at the traditional things that you did in past Christmases and holidays and do them again now as much as you can.
00:57:58
Speaker
Send your parents a Christmas card to mom and dad like I do if you want to. But yeah, don't ever forget them or let them go because they're here with you now, I promise. So beautiful. And we want to honor your dad and his memory. So to your dad, John, thank you for sharing your soul and your story with us. And you wanted to close off
00:58:25
Speaker
rich with a prayer. So if you'd like to say the prayer now and we'll close off that way for the listeners. Thank you, Kendra. Heavenly Father, we want to thank you for your countless blessings. We thank you not only for the food that we have to eat or the comfortable place we have to live, but for the beauty that surrounds us.
00:58:52
Speaker
We acknowledge you for your countless blessings that you have provided and continue to provide. We thank you for giving us clear direction through your holy word. Through the good times and the bad times, we thank you for this life. Amen. Amen. Thank you once again. Again, this was Rich Allen. And again, pen name is John Allen.
00:59:19
Speaker
can find his books. So thank you once again Rich. Thank you.
00:59:30
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode and if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone
00:59:55
Speaker
who may need to hear this, please do so. Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.