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81. Spirit Vessel- With Jessica Wertz & Amanda Wertz McClellan.
73 Plays4 years ago
Spirit Vessel was created in 2019 by the sister team of Founder and CEO, Jessica Wertz and Co-Founder, Amanda Wertz McClellan.
Spirit Vessel was conceived in 2018 when Jessica was working in her ceramic studio in Oregon. Recognizing how her connection with grief became a great catalyst in her own life she was inspired to create a healing and empowering impact on others lives during some of our most challenging times. After sharing this vision with her sister, Amanda, the company was formed.
We live more full and conscious lives by having the ability to address the most important aspect of our life - our death.
Through restoring the use of intimate ceremony around death, Spirit Vessel creates a guideline for meaningful connection through interaction.
Spirit Vessel carries the understanding that by acknowledging what hurts we can then allow it to heal. When we can grieve, we honor who and what we love.
The Spirit Vessel studio is located in southwest New Mexico, nestled in the hills of the Gila National Forest. Each urn is handmade and mindfully crafted with love.
Jessica Wertz - CEO and Founder:
As an artist, adventurer and visionary Jessica has spent more than a decade as a self-employed ceramic artist living in seven different states. After establishing her career in the San Francisco Bay Area, she moved to the deep woods of Oregon to build a studio where she spent years living in the wilderness. During this time she had deeper conversation and insight around living consciously and creating from that space.
Her work in ceramics has always been a journey into finding the meaningful connections in our lives and what nourishes us. Her work transitioned with her intention to create a space that allows us to feel the complexities of our lives, find ease in the discomfort of grief, and reconnect to ourselves with a deep acceptance. Jessica feels a deep sense of curiosity for the journey of the soul and how we weave our love in this world and into the next.
Amanda Wertz McClellan - Co-Founder:
As a passion driven business woman and proud working mom, Amanda’s desire to create positive impact has always been her north star. Over the last ten years her professional life has ranged from sales and marketing in technology to health and wellness companies. Each role has enabled her to develop rewarding skills, offered new challenges and opportunities to grow.
As proud as she is of her professional career, nothing compares to the joy of raising her two daughters alongside her husband. Their youngest was born with a very rare and life-threatening genetic breathing syndrome which alters how the family lives. As a result of her daughter’s diagnosis and care, her family is frequently confronted with the line between life and death. Living so close to the possibility of loss has given Amanda a profound perspective into what truly matters in life.
Contact Jessica and Amanda:
http://www.SpiritVessel.com
http://instagram.com/my.SpiritVessel
Contact Kendra to be a guest or for coaching:
http://www.griefgratitudeandthegrayinbetween.com
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Transcript
Exploring Life and Grief Through Rituals
00:00:01
Speaker
What did Rumi say? I thought of us the other day. He said, we're just guests in a guest house, you know, as in our bodies. We're just here. We're just guesting our way through life in these beautiful vessels. So I love Rumi. I think that's so beautiful. So then the other vessel would be the ceremonies themselves. It's the space that is you create it and it's the invisible space of what you
00:00:26
Speaker
hold in that space of ceremony together. So those are the three different vessels that we're referring to a spirit vessel.
00:00:43
Speaker
This podcast is about exploring the grief that occurs at different times in our lives in which we have had major changes and transitions that literally shake us to the core and make us experience grief.
00:00:59
Speaker
I created this podcast for people to feel a little less hopeless and alone in their own grief process as they hear the stories of others who have had similar journeys. I'm Kendra Rinaldi, your host. Now, let's dive right in to today's episode.
Meet Spirit Vessel: Founders and Mission
00:01:20
Speaker
I'm excited for y'all to be joining us today. Thank you for tuning in. Today, I am chatting with Jessica Wertz and with Amanda Wertz-McLellan, a couple of sisters who founded Spirit Vessels.
00:01:37
Speaker
and they will be sharing with us about what this is. What is a spirit vessel? What is their company? And we will be touching upon different subjects, especially like rituals around ceremonies surrounding the death of a loved one and so forth. So I'm excited to get to know you both and learn about you and your company. So thank you for joining.
00:02:03
Speaker
Thanks so much for having us. Yes. This is a three-way here to call that we're having. If we interrupt each other, you all know why. It's three of us and three different states. Let's start with that. Let's start with the East Coast Gal here. Amanda, tell us about yourself and where you are, and then we'll go from there. Yeah. Thanks for having us today, Kendra. I'm really excited to be here with you and Jess.
00:02:32
Speaker
I'm in Pennsylvania. I'm half of the sister team that makes up Spirit Vessel. And I'm a co-founder of Spirit Vessel, really Jessie's vision and her vision that basically she shared with me and who wouldn't want to work with their sister, right? And so I bring a background from like business and marketing perspective, which is wonderful. As Jess will share, she brings a ceramic artist background. And so it's just been really exciting to build this together with her.
00:03:01
Speaker
That's wonderful. Thank you for sharing. Okay, Jess, now from the West Coast here now. No, not West Coast. You're not. You're Mountain Time. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. I've lived in every time zone though, so it gets confusing to myself as well. I'm in the Southwest of New Mexico.
00:03:21
Speaker
And here is where we've moved the studio spirit vessels. So it's a small town called Hillsborough. And we have the facility here, sorry, for a spirit vessel. So that's where all of the handmade urns are made. And where we basically base everything out of while Amanda's on the East Coast working, I'm over here. So yeah, we actually moved from Portland, Oregon to New Mexico about a year ago.
00:03:48
Speaker
for Spirit Vessel, so this is us here. That's wonderful. Now, what made you move
The Creative Journey to New Mexico
00:03:55
Speaker
then? Was it easier access to materials in New Mexico or was it just the culture? What made you move to New Mexico for your business? I had lived here long ago when I was 18, 19, 20 and always knew that I wanted to come back here. There's something to the spirit of the land for me that feels really important about
00:04:16
Speaker
being here and creating here and just like a wildness and an aliveness here that really wants to be channeled through my art. So that's a really important aspect. And on the logistical side
Origins and Inspirations of Spirit Vessel
00:04:27
Speaker
of it, I was living right outside of Portland, Oregon, in a beautiful, beautiful woods and studio. And it's really where I kind of developed the idea with Amanda of Spirit Vessel. However, I did not own that property I was renting. And so really just to give solid roots to Spirit Vessel, we needed to purchase a property.
00:04:47
Speaker
And so that's when you moved. I've chatted with people that have moved to different places before. I myself have moved, I would say, quite a bit. I'm not originally even from this country. And I have noticed that there is a difference in energy every time you kind of move somewhere and just, you know, like, I don't know, there's like this something that happens within you. And like you mentioned, as a creative,
00:05:10
Speaker
that this spur of energy and connected more to wherever it is, I could imagine how it just flowed when you moved there. Totally. I think that's so true. I experienced that as well, like a psyche to a place, and you kind of understand why certain people group in areas or locations because you understand there is a like-minded mentality to these places as much as there is a physical energy to that.
00:05:36
Speaker
Yeah, and I think that's very real. You can travel to any city and start to feel that, right? Just as a more congested kind of feel, so yeah. That's awesome. Okay, so let's go back to then when you were in Oregon, when you were in the studio, the ceramic studio, and how the inspiration of starting Spirit Vessel, and I say, I pluralized it, but it's vessel, right? It's only not vessels, vessel.
00:06:04
Speaker
Spirit Vessel came about. Take us into that, and then I'll ask also just Amanda afterwards how it came in. Go ahead, Jess. Yeah, sure. I always feel like there's so many different talking points to this where I could really start with Spirit Vessel because as we were talking before the call started here, it's not necessarily a very specific grief story that brings this into life for me. It's so many things combined, and it was the fact that I was
00:06:34
Speaker
in an experience of grief going through a breakup, but that just allowed this, like, spaciousness into my life to be, again, like, what do I want? Who am I? What do I want to create in the world? So just asking, like, the larger creative questions as an artist, right?
Significance of Ceremony in Life Transitions
00:06:49
Speaker
And then there's always been this aspect of I want to create something that serves. I want to create something that's larger than me, that feels like a legacy.
00:06:58
Speaker
because I can, you know, there's this feeling that starts to come up in you and it's like, okay, if I have the space and time to do something, why don't I make it bigger than me? And there's always been this feeling of like, after a while in my art, I just came to this place of like, can I just sit back and can I just surrender to this certain aspect of myself and see what comes through as more of a channeling artist, I would say?
00:07:25
Speaker
So spirit vessel, my love of ceremony, my love of ritual, my love of ceramic objects that live in the home, you use daily, they're very intimate that way.
00:07:36
Speaker
has always been extremely important to me. That's really one of the baseline reasons I love working with clay. It's just that very rooted, grounded feeling, right? And so that has always been my line of art, where my heart goes. And I made irons, ceramic irons, for several clients over the years. So I've been in ceramics for about 12 years and do this professionally. My business is ceramic.
00:08:04
Speaker
And so through these experiences of making the urns for different clients, it's just been like a very, a very dropped in experience, right? Because you're talking with people about an object that is like, it far surpasses the object. It's the meaning of the object. And that as somebody who adores just living in, I think of it as kind of like a deeper space, deeper time realm.
00:08:30
Speaker
getting to share this like really emotional space with people over loss is so beautiful. And how do you make that meaningful for people? So out of these experiences really is this kind of combination of, you know, how do you create ceremony then where people get to experience one another through interaction and through really being together in that space through
00:08:57
Speaker
opening up these conversations around death and loss and all of the emotion that comes up around that. How do we normalize that? How do we bring that back into this culture specifically where it's really void? And how do we help people just have these conversations? And how do we make it beautiful? Like how can we create architecturally beautiful spaces? So out of these thoughts
Creating Personalized Ceremonies with Spirit Vessel
00:09:22
Speaker
and ideas, it just really started to seed and
00:09:25
Speaker
There's always a million good ideas that will pass through our brains in a year, but some of them, they stick and you're like, that I felt in the deepest part of my bones. So with that and other experiences around it of talking to friends about loss and realizing like, this isn't just an idea, this is a very deep need in our culture.
00:09:46
Speaker
and I just took the agency to start creating it and I told Amanda about it and when I went home to Pennsylvania and Amanda, well, this is where Amanda can tell her own story. Okay, so this is around the year before I switch it over to Amanda. 2018 is when you founded it, is that correct? Yes. You founded the company?
00:10:08
Speaker
Go ahead Jess. Yeah. I'm horrible at years. I'm not going to lie. All of my years get combined in my head. 2000. Let's go to the business lady then. She might know that. She might know the marketing lady might know the numbers. The creative one will know the whoa. I'm that. I'm you Jess. I'm the whoa. Amanda has the linear timelines for us. It's so funny. When you were home visiting,
00:10:36
Speaker
So you of course had the idea for long before you asked me about it or brought it to me. So way back, you know, 2018 for sure you were thinking about this and working through these ideas. And then in 2019, I believe she came home in the fall and was telling me what she wanted to do. And it caught me at a time in my life where I
00:10:59
Speaker
I've always been in different sales and marketing roles for the last decade. I'm super passionate about it. I do love numbers. I love creating websites. I love social media. I love so many of these intricacies that, quite honestly, Jess would rather be in the studio doing something awesome. I'm like, I love that stuff. When she came and
00:11:21
Speaker
we were chatting about at that visit home. I have always been wanting to do, so I have a daughter who has a genetic breathing syndrome. And so when she was born, it threw us really all for a loop. And I had my own business at the time. And then since she was born, like I said, I've been in corporate sales and just a whole bunch of different roles. But the thing that always stuck out to me was that like Jess said, I always wanted to do something that was more meaningful, like something that left a legacy, not just trading time for money. Like I really wanted to like,
00:11:51
Speaker
do meaningful work. And so when she said about this, and I was ready for a change with what I was doing, I was like, Oh, yeah, I want to support my sister and do this together and bring this vision to life. So yeah, that's kind of where it stems from. I just something just came up
00:12:09
Speaker
with both of you talking. So of how this aspect of creating something that was gonna leave a legacy and that aspect of meaning, you both mentioned it. And for both of you, there was something that happened that had the element of grief and change. Like for you Jess, with your breakup, that aspect, there was a little bit of that in the creating spread vessel. And for you, Amanda, the aspect of grieving also,
00:12:39
Speaker
the fact that you may not have a healthy per se, quote unquote, child and wanting that more connection, being home, right? Kind of shifting where the energy is and your, I don't know, just your overall look in life and what's really important, right? Like it just shifts everything.
00:13:02
Speaker
for sure. It will ground you very quickly. Yes, yes. And so the timing and how then you kind of just knew that you wanted to go alongside with your sister, just so beautiful. So then tell us, do you guys want to start with
00:13:18
Speaker
what it is, what is a ceremony with Spirit Vessel look like, what comes with it, and then we'll go into just a little bit more stories. But just so that people, as they're listening to this, they kind of know. As I've seen your website on Instagram and stuff, so I know what it looks like, but share with them what it is and who wants to speak.
00:13:41
Speaker
Sure. I'll go ahead and start, and then I'll let them in with all the different elements that are in the ceremonial package. And I've been calling you Jess, but it's Jessica. I've been saying Jess because your sister referred to you as Jess. Do I say Jess or Jessica? I have an identity crisis in my family where everyone calls me something different. It's Jess, Jessie, or Jessica. So I respond equally to all, and it's fine. OK. Go ahead, Jess.
00:14:06
Speaker
So Spirit Vessel was created with the intention to really make it not just the urn, the object, but to to really create an experience. And that is the offering so that so that we have this single package that we're selling currently, and there are options within it as far as which handmade ceramic urn you can choose. But really, it's all about the experience of having people, families, individuals gather
00:14:34
Speaker
and being in this container, this vessel of ceremony that allows you to celebrate and honor your loved one, that allows you to experience grief, not in a
00:14:48
Speaker
not in a somber closed off way, but like how can we just talk, right? So how can we work with this emotion to literally move it through our body? And so Spirit Vessel is the package and we have so many different offerings within it. So I'll let Amanda talk about it, but the major part of it is a guidebook that we wrote and the guidebook really walks you through step by step how to set up a ceremony and it's very specific.
00:15:17
Speaker
Like I've done grief ceremonies before, held grief ceremonies, held ceremonies, held retreats. So it's my background in this could really help me lay out all of the different elements necessary and needed for a very comprehensive experience. So really, it's like, how do you enter a space of ceremony? What do you know, what does that look like? And so maybe there are meditations and prayers and how do you just kind of enter a different space and time that way?
00:15:47
Speaker
And the booklet then includes so many different ideas to like enact. So there's the passages and the prompts. So there's short readings and then there's a prompt. So the prompts are all about helping you interact with one another. And these are like different talking points you can have.
00:16:06
Speaker
and all sorts of different pieces to it. It's very logistical as in like who, when, where, how, you know, closing a ceremony or ceremonies can be done physically in person, they can be done remotely. They're really made to be, I think of it as giving people their power back in this space and time, you know, it's so much about just giving people the guideline and saying like, this is an invitation,
00:16:35
Speaker
for you to step into this space and create what you want out of what we've created. And I think so many people just need that little bit of reassurance of like, this is being done. This can be done. I can do it on my own. I can make it.
00:16:50
Speaker
something that either honors myself if I'm pre-planning my own ceremony or is honoring the one who has passed in the way that the family knows that that person wants to be honored. So it's not cookie cutter. It's like, come
00:17:07
Speaker
come back to this in the way that you can trust yourself to do this and create what you want. Create what's going to be meaningful to you and what you'll take with you. And don't leave that to somebody who can't barely tell you what your loved one's last name was. There's just so many details overlooked. We really want to address the fact that it's very personalized within the ceremonies.
00:17:36
Speaker
And so what we include in it is several pieces. So it's really a package. We wanted to make this as full of an offering as we could come up with. So Amanda and I have done two years of research. Amanda, check my timeline. That might have been three years off. We've done so much research just in offering. How do you write in advanced will?
00:18:02
Speaker
How do you get your basically an attorney, voice of attorney? Sorry, my words are coming out funny. Really, how do you do all of these background researches? We do that for you. It's lists, checklists of offerings of things that you can really attend to yourself.
00:18:23
Speaker
so that you don't have to do random Google searches in the middle of a very stressed out, hard time in your family, right? So that's the other part of it that we really address. So true. So Amanda, what does the package then have? What is included? So there's the list, the guide, and then what else is in it?
00:18:44
Speaker
Yeah. So like Jess said, um, you can use the package, whether you're pre-planning, if you want to hold a living memorial ceremony, which is such a beautiful idea to honor someone, you know, before they pass, maybe they have a terminal illness or they're just getting of an age where you want to celebrate them, um, or have a memorial service for someone who has already passed. So it's great for whatever situation you find yourself in. And then like Jess said, of course, the guide really is the center of our package. It walks you through,
00:19:13
Speaker
exactly how to create your ceremony. So, you know, of course you get to pick a ceramic urn that Jess has made, whichever style appeals to you most. And then we do a consultation with everyone who selects a package and purchases a package from us. Just, you know, 30 minute consultation, help answer any questions, help them figure out how they can best utilize the package and really just encourage them to take that power back like Jess was mentioning. So you have
00:19:43
Speaker
a consultation, the earn, the guidebook, and then a template, like a full ceremony template where you can go through the guide and write down all of your preferences on your template and basically design your ceremony. And then we have a ceremony checklist booklet and essentials of the basics, the who, what, when, where, and why. And then there's an additional handmade incense bowl that Jess makes. It's absolutely gorgeous that you can use within your ceremony or
00:20:11
Speaker
maybe on a home altar or somewhere, to put incense or little notes or anything you want in there, little memorabilia. And then it also comes with incense cones, some votive candles, different things you need to set the space for the ceremony, this beautiful gold thread for one of the prompts in the guidebook. And then it comes in a beautiful solid wood box that Jess actually locally, what's the word I'm looking for, locally sources.
00:20:40
Speaker
from near her home in New Mexico. So yeah, it's a really beautiful package. Yeah, it sounds so much love and thought has gone into this.
Adapting Ceremonies for Modern Needs
00:20:50
Speaker
You can hear it and you can see it when you check their website and their Instagram account. You can see that and it makes it be then even more beautiful for somebody doing this.
00:21:03
Speaker
So we were talking, Amanda and I on Instagram where we were kind of connecting this. I'm like, okay, how else can somebody use the urn if they don't do cremation? How else can it be done? And as you were saying, even using it, doing the ceremony,
00:21:18
Speaker
years after somebody's passed. Some people, in having this podcast, I've had conversations with people that really even their grief journey hasn't started sometimes till years later, just because of where they were in their life when their loved one passed away, that they kind of just repressed, even just going through any type of emotion or even acknowledging what had happened.
00:21:40
Speaker
So how could they then use, let's say, the urn in that ceremony? Could it be like I was thinking like even notes inside like little trick, you know, like writing love notes to the loved one and putting them inside. I don't know that was kind of coming in my mind as you were
00:21:57
Speaker
talking about it, what other ways? So for example, for me that I would not wish to be cremated if I were to purchase one of these and already have already in place as a death plan per se and because why not do it while we're healthy, right? We talk about death while we're healthy because
00:22:13
Speaker
We're all going to die, right? So if we talk about it and we talk about our wishes to loved ones, then we can kind of include these things. So sorry, I said too many things. So let's talk first. How would we use, then, the urn if we don't want to use it for the ashes, if it's a cremation?
00:22:32
Speaker
Yeah, you actually really nailed that. This is something that Amanda and I really wanted the urns to have a multi-use for because they're not just for ashes. They're really sacred objects that, of course, whatever meaning you imbue with that object, however you want to use it, that's the beauty of any object, right?
00:22:52
Speaker
So exactly what you were saying, we see it also being incorporated in the ceremonies itself, and there are several prompts in which you can use a vessel just like this, you know. And it can also sit on your altar or a space in your home to really be the memorialized emblem of either the ceremony or your loved one. So you can put little mementos in there, you know, notes, maybe they're pieces from the ceremony that the whole group
00:23:19
Speaker
did together and you want to keep that, their writings about your loved one perhaps. So absolutely, like the piece itself is really just, it's a marker of what is happening. A symbol, yeah. I was thinking even now, oh, sorry Amanda, go ahead. I was just going to say, that's one of the things I love about Jess Ernst so much is that they're in this beautiful like natural earth tones and they don't stick out as being an urn. You can really put them anywhere in your home.
00:23:48
Speaker
And it just has that special, super special meaning to you. And it's not screaming to every person that comes through your home what it is. I think it really deepens the meaning of it. It's such a natural, beautiful element, if you will.
00:24:04
Speaker
Thank you for sharing that. I was thinking too, in this year where a lot of people have not even been able to be present in their loved ones' funerals based on those last couple of years with everything, with COVID, how travel has been an issue, right? So somebody might have not been able to travel to be there for
00:24:28
Speaker
the, let's say, funeral of a loved one, this would be a beautiful way of somebody to honor that loved one in their home, you know, if they weren't able to travel and include the ceremony. So let's talk about that. Let's talk about what is the importance of what you both have seen and the research that you've done of having ceremonies, you know, around the aspect of grief and how that helps a person. Absolutely.
00:24:58
Speaker
We need markers in time that tell us how important milestones are in our lives, whether that's a birth, whether that's a child, an achievement, a marriage. They are the hallmarks of our life that give our lives meaning, literally. And we need time that is designated that honors these markers in our lives.
00:25:24
Speaker
And so absolutely, ceremony around death. How do we honor our life? We honor our death. And it's cyclical. It's part of, death is part of our life, right? It's not a finite ending. I don't believe so. If you're connected to a spirit world or anything greater than you, you understand that there's a cycle here. It's not a finite beginning and ending. And so how do you honor the love that you've created in this lifetime? How do you honor the relationships that you've created in this lifetime?
00:25:54
Speaker
How do you give other people the opportunity to do that for you? And so, so much of our ceremonies are really about, it is for the person who's passed, of course it is, but it's so much for the healing of the group that lives on. And to know that they've grieved you the way that you would have wanted to be grieved is so, so important. So we're really trying to create these opportunities for people to get
00:26:21
Speaker
more intimate with this, right? More personal with this. And of course, during the time and current time COVID, when you can't gather physically to acknowledge the losses that we have in our life, we have to create that for ourselves. And so whether that is now in person again, or whether that is remotely via Zoom or webcasting services to look somebody in the eye,
Metaphors and Marketing: Expanding Spirit Vessel's Reach
00:26:48
Speaker
and to have that connection, whether that's physical or just whether you're able to share memories and really tell stories and create, again, create this vessel of this container. We need the containers that hold us in these transitions in our life. So yeah, and that's really one of the big reasons Spirit Vessel is called Spirit Vessel. The Spirit Vessels are the urns.
00:27:14
Speaker
And the spirit vessels are our bodies that carry our spirits through this lifetime. Beautiful, right? When you were saying that, I'm like, you're talking about container. I'm like, that's what our body is right now. It's literally just a container. So I'm like, that's why I'm like, oh my gosh, I get chills with those things. Yes, we're just vessels. That's all we are.
00:27:35
Speaker
Yeah, I love that. What did Rumi say? I thought of us the other day. He said, we're just guests in a guest house, as in our bodies. We're just here. We're just guesting our way through life in these beautiful vessels. So I love Rumi. I think that's so beautiful. So then the other vessel would be the ceremonies themselves. It's the space that is you create it. And it's the invisible space of what you
00:28:01
Speaker
hold in that space of ceremony together. So those are the three different vessels that we're referring to, a spirit vessel. Beautiful. Thank you. Now, Amanda, how is it for you in the, since you do mainly the marketing component of this, what have you noticed in those interactions that you've created via, is Instagram the one way that most people find you? Yeah.
00:28:30
Speaker
what I do is really figure out ways we can get to our ideal clients better. And one of the challenges of that is that literally so many different groups of people can be our ideal client because like you said, we're all going to die one day. And so wherever we're at in our, in our lifetime, in our, in like our journey, there's just so many people that could benefit from this. So that's one thing that I try to always keep in mind. Um, we do a lot of Instagram just to help get the word out there.
00:28:57
Speaker
And one group that we've been working with a lot is end of life doulas and we started an affiliate program which we're pretty excited about because we're trying to find the groups of people that are having these conversations every day you know your funeral directors your end of life doulas folks that are in this work.
00:29:13
Speaker
that know the people that need the, that can benefit from this package and can refer it to them. You know, so we've started an affiliate program. We actually have a handful of affiliates on board that we're really excited about. And if you go to our website, spirit vessel.com, you can just go down in the footer and it says, meet our partners right there. And you can click on it and check it out. So I've been doing a lot of time.
00:29:36
Speaker
with that project and it's been really fun and rewarding. And then for anybody listening to this, that may be someone that serves a large community of people that may need these services. You may just want to go ahead and click there and you never know. You may want to become an affiliate yourselves as well. It may be the right fit for you too.
00:29:56
Speaker
the end-of-life doula. My sister is a birth doula. And when I started doing grief work is when I learned about there being grief doula. And I'm like, oh my goodness, it makes so much sense that there's somebody that helps you, just like when we're being born, there's somebody that
00:30:17
Speaker
helps guide the parent in this, why not there be someone that helps in this departing from this world, physical world. So it's so beautiful. Now, what has been one of the best things about working together as sisters in this journey and who would want to share first?
00:30:41
Speaker
I will. For Amanda and I, one part we actually did leave out in the beginning is that we had talked for years about being business partners, but we didn't know in what capacity or what that would look like.
00:30:55
Speaker
we love each other intensely and want to communicate more frequently. And also we have these skill sets that are both so separately diverse, but we really collaborated well together. Yeah. And so it was always just this like thought of like, Hey, if we ever, if something ever happened, wouldn't that be fun? Um, we never really pursued it that hard, but it was always in the back of our mind until spear vessel.
00:31:18
Speaker
And so now, I mean, Amanda and I are on the phone how many times a week just communicating so much. And it's also something I was saying to our younger sister, Mara, who's also she's phenomenal. And she works for Habitat for Humanity down in Florida. And she's just such a business businesswoman. And I was saying to her, like, you know, one of the
00:31:43
Speaker
real highlights of being able to work with Amanda is that we've just like deep into communication around this area in our life. And it's so nice just to be able to have that as a sister and as a business partner, somebody that you can really like drop in with like that. Yeah. It's been absolutely nothing short of awesome. And it's really funny because Jess and I are so, um,
00:32:09
Speaker
independent and we've worked in our own independent ways for years. And so the last year plus of working intensely on Spirit Vessel has been a great learning journey for our personal
00:32:20
Speaker
work styles and productivity styles. But it's so fun and I wouldn't have it any other way. And it's like when you're having a bad day, oh, you get to talk good. I've got a call scheduled with my sister at 10 anyway. We can talk about anything and everything that needs to be covered. So it's been a real blessing. I'm really glad that we've been able to, like Jess said, we had talked about it for years and it's just, it's awesome to see how it's come to fruition.
00:32:47
Speaker
That's wonderful. Now, in your family dynamics, how has this, how has it been with you guys now having a company that is around the subject of death, how has it opened then the conversations within your family members to talk about their own wishes and how has that shifted to make it be a table talk conversation at the dinner table?
Family's Role and Personal Reflections on Mortality
00:33:11
Speaker
Yeah. Well, it definitely has, but in the way that we all live across the country from one another and don't actually sit at a table together these days, it's- Zoom talk. Zoom talk. Space time talk. Conversations. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I would say the overwhelming response within our family is like, wow, this is amazing that you two are offering this and that you're doing it together. And I would say that
00:33:39
Speaker
The family at as large sees also sees the necessity for it as you know so many community members do when you just start talking about it it just wakes something up and everybody and it's like okay if you're willing to take that on we need that you know but like.
00:33:53
Speaker
who not many people want to go here, which is a shame because I think that really cuts you off from a part of your life by obviously not being able to talk about death at a level of fear. So I think Amanda's stories here would be different because she's a little bit closer to my parents at home.
00:34:11
Speaker
But I know for myself, I'm currently in a program to be a death doula through the Conscious Dying Institute out of Boulder, which is a phenomenal program. And it is helping me just get really that much more specific about the things I do want to talk about with my family, with my parents. And I know my mom, she's so open to talking about her death. She was like, I want to be cremated. And I want to be in one of your urns, Jesse. She's just like,
00:34:41
Speaker
She tells me all the time, like, okay, mom, we'll make this happen. So yeah, it's actually more, it's something that just continues to be a conversation, honestly. Yeah. So our family is all very entrepreneurial. So when Jess and I are like, we're starting a company, like nobody really bats an eye. It's like, Oh, okay. You know?
00:35:02
Speaker
Our parents were entrepreneurs and had a landscaping business growing up, which I think really shaped. There's four girls. We have each have three sisters. There's four of us. And I think it really shaped a lot of us into our adulthood and just the way we want to live and the way we want to work.
00:35:19
Speaker
And even those of us who have jobs still have that like entrepreneurial mindset, I would say. So it is funny, my parents are totally supportive and my mom keeps saying, well, how can I share this? Well, so should we have a family meeting and have Jess talk to everybody about this? She's like dying for the right.
00:35:38
Speaker
Literally, you're like time. She cannot wait to have all words of how to share this with everybody she knows. So she's very proud and very excited. That is awesome. Now has this also then shifted what you both then feel about, how you both feel about your own mortality and you talk about even the aspect of preparing a will and so forth. So how has this played a part in your own preparations?
00:36:07
Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's actually something that the research around it has brought me more awareness. So it started as an idea of ceremony, but then really understanding what that means to prepare for death has been a complete education for myself. I can honestly say I sit even now with a very little fear around death.
00:36:33
Speaker
And this process has really brought that more into my awareness that I don't have this fear of death in that way. I fear things in this world more than I fear my own death. And I fear losing the people I love. For me, it's more about making sure my relationships are always in good standing and I'm always presently available and with my people and just sharing that from the heart.
00:37:01
Speaker
For me, I would say, I'm currently going through this and thinking, what? So in the program of being a death doula, there's part of it called Best Three Months. And it is literally imagining that you have three months to live. And what does that look like in the different domains of your life, spiritual, emotional, mental, physical, practical? And so it really, it's not just this nebulous thought, what do I want my death to look like? You have to drop in and almost plan it for yourself at this point.
00:37:31
Speaker
And it certainly brings to the foreword, like who would be with you? What would be occurring in your life at that time? And who would be your voice of attorney? What really matters to you during these stages? So then getting clear about that and writing that down so that that is actually documented for yourself is a process that it's really getting me more focused on currently.
00:38:01
Speaker
Yeah, and I don't know, I think I can share just that once she goes through this practice, she's to do it with some other folks and she asked me if I would, so we're going to do that together then after she goes through that practice, which I'm looking forward to. But I would agree that it's just been a total education for me as we've gotten into this work and understanding it more and more every day, that free planning always seemed to me like
Pre-Planning as a Gift in Grief
00:38:29
Speaker
I don't know. I didn't know that many people did it and I still don't think enough people pre-planned, but now I just see it as such a gift to your family. We've had our grandmother passed away last summer and her grandfather is 97? So he's absolutely wonderful. And just, it was really impactful when my grandmother passed to be 90.
00:38:56
Speaker
I think she was 94 when she passed and to just really not have any plans around it because she was so fearful about death. That was a huge eye opener for me. And so now it's just more important than ever. I see how, you know, pre-planning is just such a gift. It's like, it's almost rude if you don't pre-plan, it's almost selfish if you don't pre-plan because it's when your family's going through your loss, I mean, the worst thing is to try to make these
00:39:23
Speaker
these decisions that could have been made long ago. So that's one of my huge takeaways from this. I'm going to link that pre-planning to kind of having a birth plan, right? So when somebody is going to give birth, they have them have a birth plan. Now, is it going to go to a T like what you planned?
00:39:42
Speaker
No, you might end up having a C-section when you wanted to have a natural, no epidural birth, right? But at least you had some sense of what it is you wanted around this particular meaningful occasion in your life.
00:39:59
Speaker
the same than when we pre-plan for our passing. Of course, circumstances, you were talking about, Jess, you have no clue who's going to be, who are you going to be with by then? Who's going to be the person? If somebody's gotten married or not, or things have shifted by that time, then it's different. But at least you have this overall umbrella and plan around it. So I think that is just,
00:40:27
Speaker
And for the family to know that those would be your wishes and if they can honor that, that I think is wonderful. So I think what you both are doing is amazing. And as I said, like when you were describing your whole ceremony, there's just so much love that you could see for that. So thank you.
00:40:46
Speaker
Now, is there something else you wanted to share around this topic and about the importance of ceremony or just what it's done for you guys before we close off?
Ongoing Remembrance and Celebration
00:41:00
Speaker
Yeah, I think I just add
00:41:03
Speaker
You know, so much of this is really about self-healing, right? So it's being in the space to allow yourself to feel, to then heal it. And it doesn't have to be so conscious, it just has to happen. Because our bodies are so intelligent that if we just allow ourselves to feel what's coming up instead of repressing that,
00:41:27
Speaker
then there's a healing that takes place on a cellular level. And it's not something that we really even need to... I don't know. So for me, the ceremonies are so much about just allowing that space to occur for families and allowing these conversations to surface and being brave enough to do it, because it is courageous. And I really want to acknowledge that. It's not something that's easy. We're not saying it is.
00:41:56
Speaker
The offering we've created is trying to bring in as much invitation in such a gentle, heartfelt way. So the ceremonies are not religious specifically. You can add to them whatever you'd like to.
00:42:11
Speaker
They are for everybody, you know, the way that they're written. This is like, this is one human family style. Absolutely. So the idea is just like, come in, feel, heal, and honor life. And so, yeah. And then we were talking a little bit about, you know, ceremony and times of COVID. And so I also really think that
00:42:36
Speaker
an idea for these ceremonies would be really beautiful, not just from people who are pre-planning or who have or having a living memorial or who have currently recently passed. They can be done for family members who maybe you know your your partner has
00:42:53
Speaker
past 10 years ago and you just want this like memorial again and to gather your family around that and like what a gorgeous gift that is just to be remembered and to be talked about and to have that be open in your family so there's so many ways to do this right it's really about like what do you want we're here to support you as much as we can and
00:43:15
Speaker
And the gift that you're giving to the loved one by doing that, and like you said, even just 10 years down the line, when we do honor and remember our loved ones when they've passed, at least in my beliefs, is also just a way of making sure in my beliefs that their souls just kind of get that other little extra push and continue their growth, that their legacy has not been forgotten, their legacy continues. And so by having these,
00:43:43
Speaker
ceremonies is not, like you said, something sad. It's a celebration of life. It's a celebration of what they were in your life and what they continue to be and how this connection can continue beyond the fact that they're not physically here. And like you said, the gathering everybody together to honor that. It's like kind of gathering for Thanksgiving feast, right? It's like a way of having that family unit and to do that in honor of somebody's memory. That's just
00:44:13
Speaker
Beautiful. So thank you. Amanda, anything else you'd want to share before we close off? No, I mean, just really the closing remarks there were exactly what we're doing here. It's just giving people their power back to have a ceremony that serves them at whatever point in their life that it's helpful. It's such an incredible experience.
00:44:35
Speaker
Wonderful. So now since you're the, uh, the internet and the Instagram lady and person here, contact, tell people how they can get ahold of you. And of course I'll put that in the show notes. Yeah, absolutely. Well, we would love to connect with you on Instagram. If you're there, our handle is at my M Y dot spirit vessel. And then we can be reached by email at support at spirit vessel.com. And of course, come check out our website, which is spirit vessel.com.
00:45:04
Speaker
And down in the footer, we've got lots of different pages, the affiliate program, our partners, all that that you can check out.
00:45:12
Speaker
Oh, that's wonderful. It's been such an honor chatting with you both and feeling your energy.
Closing Thoughts and Community Engagement
00:45:17
Speaker
And I love that I get to see you, even though the audience doesn't, they just get to hear you. But I just feel that beautiful energy. So thank you so much to both of you for being here, for sharing, and for leaving something very memorable on this earth here, as you both wanted to do. So thank you. Thank you, Kendra. Yeah, this was wonderful. Thank you.
00:45:47
Speaker
Thank you again so much for choosing to listen today. I hope that you can take away a few nuggets from today's episode that can bring you comfort in your times of grief. If so, it would mean so much to me if you would rate and comment on this episode. And if you feel inspired in some way to share it with someone who may need to hear this, please do so.
00:46:16
Speaker
Also, if you or someone you know has a story of grief and gratitude that should be shared so that others can be inspired as well, please reach out to me. And thanks once again for tuning into Grief Gratitude and the Gray in Between podcast. Have a beautiful day.