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The American Craftsman Podcast Ep. 25 | Educating Clients
37 Plays4 years ago
On Episode 25 of The American Craftsman Podcast, hosted by Greene Street Joinery, we talk about the importance of educating our clients.
Beer of the Week (Double Mountain Devil's Kriek 2013): https://untappd.com/b/double-mountain-brewery-and-cidery-devil-s-kriek-2013/746847
Tool of the Week: (SurBuf 5-1/2" Buffing Pad) https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003CLOJH4/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&tag=greenestreetj-20&camp=1789&creative=9325&linkCode=as2&creativeASIN=B003CLOJH4&linkId=294f0aba3aa4ad03235032cf82e43eb5
Greene Street Joinery is a custom design & build shop located in Monmouth County, New Jersey. We build multigenerational furniture with an eco-friendly and sustainable mindset.
Inspired and guided by the ideals of the Arts and Crafts movement, we believe in the use of traditional craftsmanship and simple, well-proportioned forms; sustainability and ethical practices; and importantly, taking pleasure in our work as craftsmen to create quality pieces of enduring value.
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Transcript
Episode 25 Confirmation
00:00:17
Speaker
Ain't no shame, but there's been a chain. Welcome everybody. Yeah, hey. Is this episode 24? Or is it 25? No, this is 25. This is an un-updated version of our... Oh, it's a typo. Yeah, just a bit of a typo. That guy's fired. Taking some time off.
Live Broadcast from Death Valley
00:00:42
Speaker
We're coming at you live from the from Death Valley today. Yeah. Yeah. If you're you're going to have to go to YouTube and actually check out the video version of the podcast to see see what we got going on because we're in a whole new new setting. We're on the road. New studio today. Yeah. And so we have cameras all over. We're actually getting like a panoramic like we have like a camera that's going around us in a circle.
00:01:11
Speaker
Yeah, like at the Liberty Science Museum.
Clubhouse Platform Discussion
00:01:17
Speaker
Also, we're live on Clubhouse right now, so we've got some people in the room. We got everybody muted right now because we're just doing a little intro, but they're mic'd up. They're ready to rock. We're going to be asking them some questions. Maybe they can weigh in on some of the questions we got from listeners this week. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, it's pretty cool, this new Clubhouse thing. So if you guys aren't on it,
00:01:40
Speaker
Hey, see if you can get an invite. It's invite only right now and iOS only. So only Apple iPhones. I heard next month, I guess, or maybe this month. Yeah. Next month being March that they'll be opening it up to Android. So all right. Yeah. So we look forward to maybe seeing you guys in the in the live section of the podcast to buddy in the pool. Yeah.
00:02:02
Speaker
So we're going to we're going to turn on on the mic to. Yeah, let's see what happens. This is, you know, before we get it. Like most things, we just do it without really without really proven and not a bit of water. This is uncharted territory.
Guest Appearance: Matt from American Craftsman
00:02:26
Speaker
Matt, you're live on the American Craftsman podcast. Say hi.
00:02:33
Speaker
All right. Doing good. How about yourself? It's a beautiful day in Connecticut. Can't complain. I'm getting a couple of doors put together today. Yeah, it's gorgeous here. It's 54 degrees right now. I can't believe it. No fire in the shop today needed. It's a 60.5. Not too bad.
00:02:56
Speaker
Nice. Yeah. I should say it's 54 in Port Monmouth. We're we're not in Port Monmouth right now. We're somewhere else out west, but it's like 107. Yeah. Nice and dry. When you guys said look on YouTube, I hopped on your YouTube thing. Are you going to post it later? Yeah. Yeah. That'll be up usually tonight, like around eight o'clock. It'll be up by. And where are you guys? Well, you're going to have to check out the video and find out.
00:03:29
Speaker
It's a surprise it'll be worth worth checking out We're changing the change in the podcast the podcast game here at Green Street and
00:03:49
Speaker
It's an awesome format. You guys are hitting the nail right on the head. I'm in full support and I'm super happy to be here. Like you said, I'm around if you want to have you weigh in on anything.
00:03:58
Speaker
Thanks brother. Yeah. Well, uh, so say hi to everybody. We've got Matt, Nathan, Keith, and sorry, Jenny. My phone is under the mic over here. Um, a little hard to see, uh, what's up everybody. So I'm going to, I'm going to put you guys on, uh, on, well, I'm not going to put you on mute, but anyway, we're going to, we're going to move ahead with the podcast. We're going to get into the beer of the week and, uh, when we get into the questions, we'll see if you guys have anything to add.
Beer of the Week: Devil's Creek
00:04:25
Speaker
So what do you got this week, Rob? Well, this week I got something from Double Mountain that's out in, I believe, Oregon off the Hood River. This is something called Devil's Creek. Creek with a K. K-R-I-E-K. And it's from 2013. You know what creek means, right?
00:04:48
Speaker
You mean one thing with water in it? No, no, it's cherry. I don't know if it's in Flemish or. Yeah, yeah, that's it because it's a it's a red Belgian style sour ale with Bing cherries. Mm hmm. It's tart and funky and it's fermented with the Brettanomyces yeast. Brettanomyces. It's a you know, like a
00:05:15
Speaker
I mean, I guess it started out as a wild yeast. And this is, at the very least, it's aged more than a year. So this has been sitting around for eight years. Yeah. I have a beer that I brewed on January 1st of 2012 and I still have one big, like a 22 ounce bottle of it left. Just so you know, it's 9.3.
00:05:40
Speaker
percent alcohol. It's pouring a chocolatey brown. Well, it's definitely got some red tint. Almost looks like that water from the oak. It's definitely cold. Yeah. Well, cheers. Here's to you guys out there. Yeah. If you're listening at home, have a sip.
00:06:10
Speaker
Whatever you got. Ah, that is nice and cold. And actually, I want to say I just got the email that our American Craftsman podcast glasses. Oh, yeah. Should be here tomorrow. So we'll we'll have those up on the website so you guys can can drink along. Drink along at home. That's right.
00:06:35
Speaker
When are you going to drink along at all? That's right. These are trying times. We got to do whatever we can to get by. Yeah. Yeah. So that's
Efficient Woodwork Buffing Tool
00:06:43
Speaker
good. We'll comment on that later on. Yeah. Well, you know where it brings us next every week. The tool of the week. The tool of the week. Um, if you're viewing at home is a, this buffing pad, a sure buff.
00:06:59
Speaker
It's a little over six inch in diameter with kind of this felt back. A nice about three quarter inch thick piece of soft foam in between that and what I'll call the scouring layer, but it's really just short nylon hairs.
00:07:16
Speaker
And the reason I chose this for this week is because we had to, you know, buff out the secretary that we've been talking about for all these weeks. And instead of doing it by hand with one of those ultra fine scotch brights, they put this on the Rotex and saved me about a day and saved my hands a lot of aches and pains.
00:07:42
Speaker
Yeah, and I'm sure it lends a more consistent finish. Yeah, yeah. The one thing I'll say about this, it doesn't work as well on like a random orbit, like with like the regular, what do we have, those 125s, the five inches? You need a direct, what do they call it, direct drive? Yeah. Something that spins and doesn't stop. Exactly. But it was great. It got into corners, gets, it's flexible, gets into small areas. So
00:08:11
Speaker
We were. I knew I had one. Well, we looked all up. We couldn't find it. We were about to order more. Oh, we had a caught up calling a clingsport, woodworking and looking on Amazon, calling the local stores for different stuff. Turns out it was in the drawer.
00:08:27
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. So it's great for I mean, I don't like it for polishing up like a wax. This was just the oil that that Rubio Monaco, because it gets too clogged up. You try and take the wax off. You really need to to clean it. But it's something you could throw in the in the washing machine if you had to. That's what they say. And you should check them out. It's something that
00:08:54
Speaker
save you some time in the shop and I think it's an essential tool, I'll say. It's something to add to the sandpaper drawer. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, anything to save buffing by hand. Yeah. Oh my God. I mean, one of the jobs you do that nobody notices if you do it well, but they just notice it if you do it bad. Yeah.
00:09:16
Speaker
Hey, Matt, just a heads up. I'm going to move you to the audience just to keep things orderly. Like, we'll bring people up one at a time as we get into questions and stuff. So if anybody, you know, we'll get into the questions here in a couple of minutes. If anybody there on Clubhouse has a comment or a question, et cetera, raise
Live Audience Interaction on Clubhouse
00:09:33
Speaker
your hand. I'll bring bring people up. I guess we might have multiple people that want to comment on the same thing. Well, we'll bring people up between and we'll figure it out. We're figuring it all out.
00:09:45
Speaker
Yeah. You got a gripe this week? I think we took it took a week off last week. Yeah. Yeah. I think that was John Peters had a gripe. Well, you got something. You got something on your mind.
00:09:58
Speaker
Not really. Well, you know, one of my favorite go to dinners when, you know, my wife's not really a homemaker. She doesn't listen so I could say that
Product Size Complaints
00:10:11
Speaker
yet. Yeah. Wait till the checks start coming in. That's right. No, my wife was a school teacher. She was a high school math teacher since retired. So she was a working woman her whole life.
00:10:26
Speaker
But she gets these whenever I have something to do and I have to get out of the house fast, like if I have an appointment and we stop work and I got to get out of here, she'll make I call them chicken fingers. But basically, there are these organic breasts sliced up and they're breaded. They're gluten free. And they're really good. I can't remember who makes them. But, you know, it's like one of those things you get at Whole Foods, that kind of store.
00:10:57
Speaker
And the reason I'm talking about those is that this, the gripe is that there used to be six in the box and now there's only five. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm sure they sell it by weight, but what happens is they don't change the price. And what used to be, let's say, you know, 16 ounces. And now you look on the box and it's 14 and a half ounces. Hmm.
00:11:25
Speaker
You know, so they give you five that are a little bit bigger. Yeah, but it's still less for the same price Yeah, I mean the candy bar thing they were doing that for a long time. Yeah Yeah, like a Snickers bar now is like I don't I don't really eat candy No, and like every year around Halloween I'll fall off the wagon and candy but like a Snickers bar I feel like used to be like six inches long. Yeah now they're like
00:11:50
Speaker
Four. Yeah. Well, yeah. See, that's my petty gripe that they try and slip one past you like the potato chips. Same thing with that.
00:12:00
Speaker
Oh, wow, looks like we got the logo up there. That's that's looking sharp. We're not in the desert anymore. So that's truly a petty gripe. But that is that is the title. And I'm sure I've struck a nerve with somebody out there that, you know, it's not like you can eat a whole bag of potato chips now and you couldn't
00:12:24
Speaker
in the past. It's just that there's less chips in that bag. Yeah. And they're the same price or maybe more. Yeah. Yeah. More air, less food. Yeah. That's what's going on. So there's my petty gripe of the week. Well, I feel you on that. Let me see. I'm just messing around here with the studio.
00:12:43
Speaker
Yeah, I'm getting a little seasickness. Motion sickness. Yeah, just wait till next week. We might be on the moon. Oh, yeah. I'm looking forward to that. SpaceX? Yeah. Virgin Galactic, actually. Yeah. We're shareholders. So are we ready to move on to questions of the week?
00:13:04
Speaker
Yeah, let's do it. Sorry, I'm distracting myself over here. So we got a question from Nathan at Trio Life Woodworking on Instagram. And Nathan asks us, how can I make a 22 and a half degree cut with the table saw? I need to make Kumiko jigs and got stuck on that.
00:13:23
Speaker
And we thought, wow, how do you do that? And I guess the only other way is to make a jig. Is that what we came up with? Yeah. So actually I reached out to Nathan just to clarify. So he's talking about like when we.
00:13:39
Speaker
Most times when people talk about 22 and a half, like we're talking about 22 and a half off 90. Right. So that'd be like a 67 and a half. Yeah. Like we we tend to talk in like miter saw speak. Right. So he's actually talking about if you're cutting it on a miter saw a 67 and a half degree cut.
00:13:57
Speaker
Yeah, so that's that's deep. Yeah, so Nathan actually said that he kind of you know had figured it out and The idea is to cut it vertically. Yeah, so you set the saw to 22 and a half jig up your piece from the bit from the
00:14:14
Speaker
table of the saw going up and that's how you cut it. Right that's what I was thinking you know like something that you could either clamp or fasten to the fence would would help you know like a nice guide or a jig. Some sort of like a tenoning jig type setup. Yeah yeah.
00:14:33
Speaker
Yeah, we have that heavy cast iron delta jig for like making bridle joints and stuff. It's perfect. Yeah. But it holds the stock, you know, perfectly. And it also has a little caliper gauge on the side so you can tilt it. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah. So you could even cut crazy. I mean, you cut some crazy angles with that. Does it tilt in both directions?
00:14:59
Speaker
No, no, because it's got like a 90 stop on that one side, that big slab of iron.
00:15:06
Speaker
So tips in the same direction as the blade or the other? You know, I don't remember. It's sitting up there for so long. It's one of those things that you don't use for a couple of years and then you need it and you go, oh, I got that thing busted out. Yeah, it hasn't. We haven't used it in, I don't know, two, at least the two years that I've been here. No, it doesn't get used very often. More often than not for something, we'll just run it against the fence by hand.
00:15:35
Speaker
Yeah, that's what I did with the, um, the raised panels for these Gothic doors. I just, um, the hell did I do? I clamped. Did I clamp a board to the thing? And then I think that's what I did. I clamped the board to the fence and then I clamped another board to the piece and then just used that as like a reference. Yep.
00:16:00
Speaker
And it came out pretty well. I mean, you had to sand the hell out of it, but get those. Yeah, no, no, the bottoms came out. No. Oh, you're talking about the bottom. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you just use the I just use a spokeshave on the top.
00:16:17
Speaker
Alright, so Nathan didn't really need our help on that. Yeah, good luck with the Kumiko. Yeah, we'd like to see some pictures. Yeah, I'm jealous because I'd like to try it myself someday. Alright, why don't you take the second one? I like this question. Yeah, we got one from our buddy Tom McGuire. He's one of our patrons on Patreon. Tom wants to know, he's got a little question about some work he's doing in his house.
00:16:39
Speaker
So, my wife thinks in a 4 day weekend I can demo our bathroom's plaster walls, tile, tile floor, and install a new vanity, wainscoting, plumbing, electrical, etc. If I were to build a custom vanity due to the bathroom humidity, what types of wooden sealer would you recommend if we go for a natural color instead of painting it? Also, do you know anywhere I could hide a body?
00:17:04
Speaker
My pat answer to that is under the corn. Yeah, I was gonna say under the new tub
00:17:13
Speaker
Do you know that movie reference? You told me about it one time but I don't remember. It's that movie with Johnny Depp and he's like a writer and who's the guy that plays his alter ego but you know it's one of those stock twists where you don't know he's the alter ego. It's played by what the hell's his name? It's like a multiple personality kind of situation.
00:17:38
Speaker
Anyway, it varies the wife under the corn. So that's what I always tell my wife. I was because was the corner he planted. I think so. You know, it's up in a cabin and there's like corn fields, not his corn. You know, it's like I'm not buying that because if you dig up the corn, you're going to be able to tell under the corn. That's that's I'm going to go with that unless they buried her when the corn wasn't out of the ground.
00:18:04
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, I'm a city boy. So, you know, I'm I could easily believe that. I grew up literally surrounded by corn. I grew up in the suburbs, but you mean corn doesn't come in a can. No, it comes in a bag in the freezer. You know that. Yeah, that's right. Back back to the question, Tom. Really, I mean, it depends the combination of wooden sealer
00:18:33
Speaker
If you use a wood that's more susceptible to humidity, you're going to want to use a stronger type finish. And if you use one that's better with humidity like white oak or teak or sapele or something like that, then you don't have to go as crazy.
00:18:50
Speaker
I don't think it's going to be as much of a problem as, as you may think. Right. It's not like you're making the interior of a sauna or anything like that. Yeah. You're going to, and by code, if you're worried about that stuff, you have to have either a window or a fan. So, you know, heart fan as we used to call them. Yeah. And, and you'll have to use Jeff's favorite glue type bond three. Yeah. The waterproof variety. I'm a type on one guy. Yeah.
00:19:18
Speaker
I hate it. I'd like to bring that up. I can't stand Type 1. Just to see Jess reaction.
Convenience Food Packaging Gripe
00:19:28
Speaker
That's like saying you prefer a rotary phone. Yeah, it's like going... I like to drive, but I prefer a bicycle. Yeah. I don't know. Just like that Type 1 one. Yeah, it's too thick.
00:19:46
Speaker
Well, you got your work cut out for your four days. I mean, that wife must be hanging out with my wife. She's got the same perception of how long it takes to do things. Cleaning up is going to take two days. Yeah. If your demo and plaster. Oh, my God. Yeah. I mean, I'd say if it's a small bath, you can probably get most of the demo done in a day. But then, you know, you're talking it's going to take you a week. And that's if you're really busting ass. Yeah.
00:20:16
Speaker
You know, we did. That's a seven day week notified. We moved in the last time we needed a new bathroom. Yeah. I think that's that's the ticket. I don't blame you. In terms of the body, we can't comment on that. We've already have some outstanding legal situations. The clone under the corner. I would say, you know, I watch a lot of murder mystery, and typically if the body's somewhere on the premises,
00:20:46
Speaker
They bury it under like the patio, like a new patio goes in. Crawl space. And then you pour a new slab. A fountain. The thing is, you got to doctor the receipts because the police always look at the dates of those things and they notice, you know, whether you've made any large improvements to the home around the time of the disappearance. It makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Yeah. Can't get away with anything these days. There's cameras everywhere and
00:21:14
Speaker
Yeah, I feel for you Tom I do I do you're better off just you if you disappeared somewhere Now you got some yeah Cayman Islands Costa Rica
00:21:28
Speaker
Something like that. You know, just try not to withdraw large sums of cash, you know, too quickly. Just, you know, times are crazy right now. Hop on a on a boat or something. You can get away. Now you're getting into my fantasy zone. I like this next question from Low Country Modern on Instagram, formerly known as Locomodern.
00:21:53
Speaker
Guys, we have a debate going on over here and need y'all's help.
Sandwich Preferences Debate
00:21:58
Speaker
Reuben, Cuban, or BLT sandwich? Cheers. I like the rhythm of that question. Yeah. Well, first off, the Reuben has something on it that I just can't agree with and that's the Thousand Island dressing. That's out for me. What about you? I love a good Reuben.
00:22:21
Speaker
But I like coleslaw instead of the sauerkraut. Oh, see, that's another thing. The Ruben's just not a sandwich for me, I'm afraid, then. And then the BLT.
00:22:35
Speaker
Even, you know, I don't really I don't eat pork, really. So they're all out. Yeah, they're all out. But in my past, I've enjoyed all of these sandwiches except for the Reuben. I haven't enjoyed it. I've eaten it, but I haven't enjoyed it. You're missing out. The BLT, I don't like lettuce. I don't want lettuce on my sandwiches. That's a.
00:22:59
Speaker
Across the board keep the lettuce off my sandwich. That sounds like a petty grape. It is No lettuce on the sandwich. I don't like even like an Italian sub. Oh, especially on an Italian sub. Hmm
00:23:14
Speaker
See, what I don't like is when they put shredded lettuce on a BLT. Yeah. That's just wrong. That's criminal. It should be leaf iceberg lettuce on a BLT. Iceberg. See, for me, the deal breaker on the BLT is usually the tomato because usually it's not a good tomato. Well, yeah, you can't get a good tomato anymore. I'll just take the BBL. Yeah.
00:23:36
Speaker
You know what I like? Bacon and lettuce. I like avocado on there. I like a grilled cheese. Mmm. White American with lots of butter. You pan grill it with a couple of strips of bacon in there. Yeah. And some nice tomato. Yeah. Yeah. I like that too. Nice sour pickle on the side. I like white American but on a grilled cheese there's something better about yellow.
00:24:04
Speaker
just seems right yeah like you don't like that white macaroni and cheese like yeah I don't like the white cheddar mac yeah cheese it's just not the same so so what's left obviously I mean I'm gonna I don't know I'm between BLTs are good but between a Reuben and a Cuban and a BLT BLT's got no chance yeah yeah
00:24:29
Speaker
It's it's a tough choice. I really like Rubens, but I really like Cuban sandwiches, too. Yeah, the Cuban is my choice there as well. I like the way it's all smashed down, you know, crispy. I love that. I like pickles. You know, here's my I'm going with Ruben because I feel like the Cuban is usually too small because they build like a regular sized sandwich and then they smash it down to nothing. So it's like this little
00:24:56
Speaker
three quarter inch tall. Yeah. Yeah. I'm telling you, I'll go with the Cuban all day, all day for me. I like a nice open faced Reuben. They, you know, they build it like it's like two inches high. Yeah. Where the hell did I have one? Oh, MJ's. You know, it's good on marble rye. I don't like those sandwiches where the bread to meat ratio is out of whack.
00:25:20
Speaker
And you know, like, you see those deli sandwiches? I mean, I've had a few of those because I'm from New York and that's like one of those, I guess they have them everywhere now. But in the past, it was a New York sort of thing when you go to the deli and you get like a corned beef or a brisket sandwich at the Jewish deli.
00:25:42
Speaker
And they would be massively stacked like it was a whole play to me. Yeah, there's a place out. It's not super close to here, but in this kind of general area called Harold's, I think. And it's somewhere that was in the city or somebody moved out here. And like you apparently have to take half of the sandwich because it's got so much.
00:26:04
Speaker
Yeah, like that Katz's deli kind of sandwich. I'm not into that but I do like a big Reuben that uh, you know, it's got to be a nice nice piece of rye bread down. Yeah. Yeah. Well Cuban man, Cuban. I'll eat any of the three. You're bringing sandwiches whatever you got. Yeah If it's a BLT, it's gotta be turkey bacon for me. Yeah, I'll take what I'll take turkey bacon Beef bacon. Yeah bacon. There's some good turkey bacon out there. I
00:26:33
Speaker
Yeah, not as good as regular bacon, though. Well, yeah, I can't I can't eat. You know, we spot we've adopted a pig down at Popcorn Park Zoo. I don't know. It must be 10 years now. So we pay for this.
00:26:51
Speaker
a pot belly pig. Yeah. It was supposed to be, you know, that was like one of those things where people get them and then they abandoned them. Yeah. So this is like a rescue zoo. And Uno is a pig's name and God help him. He's the ugliest animal in the whole zoo. Yeah. Popeye pigs are not, not good looking animals. Got like one curled tooth coming out of his mouth. Snaggle tooth. Yeah.
00:27:18
Speaker
So we can't eat pig. I really can't have a Cuban, but in the past I have and enjoyed them. Alright, so you want to move on? I hope we settled something there.
Hosts' Dog Stories
00:27:34
Speaker
Let us know. I don't think we did, but... Has a client ever come to you with a decent sized job, but with a terrible idea in mind?
00:27:45
Speaker
How do you work through this? Talk them down from a crappy idea. Also, my son Jack, who's 10 on Friday, wants to know if either of you have a dog. If so, what breed? That's from Rab Rad Design on Instagram. Well, I guess first off, we've got to say, Jack, happy birthday. Yeah, ought to be 10 and free. Yeah, double digits. Living the good life.
00:28:13
Speaker
Yeah, man, 10. That was a good year, 10. Feels like a lifetime ago. It was a lifetime ago for you. It was four lifetimes for me. Oh, man. Yeah, of course we have dogs. Yep. What's Rufus? Yeah, so my dog Rufus is, uh, he'll be
00:28:37
Speaker
10 this year, 9 this year. He'll be... 9 this year. He's a Kali Husky German Shepherd Golden Retriever mix. Oh yeah, he's like- Equal parts of each. He's a little bit like me, a little bit everything. Yeah.
00:28:54
Speaker
So he's a he's kind of got the fur of a golden retriever, the colors of a German shepherd. He's got the husky tail and kind of the collie build. So yeah, that's the way I see him. Collie, but he doesn't have the collie face. You know, he's got that long nose or a golden retriever face. Yeah. Yeah. Well, we have two months. Well, one month really Zuma.
00:29:18
Speaker
She's some kind of mix of like a hound. I think she's got some pointer in her based on what she does when she sees animals. Yeah, I could see that. And then we have Sammy, who's a Catahoula leopard hound. And that was Sammy's, my third Catahoula.
00:29:40
Speaker
And I was partial to that breed. I'd never heard of them till I adopted one from the pound in Long Island. That's usually how it works. Yeah.
00:29:50
Speaker
We used to go out to Prospect Park every Sunday because I lived in Brooklyn at the time when I adopted, uh, Primo was his name, my first Catahoula. And in Prospect Park on Saturday and Sunday morning from 6 to 9 AM, you can let your dogs run off the leash. Hmm. Is it fenced in? Uh, no, it's a huge, huge park, like, um, Central Park kind of thing on Brooklyn.
00:30:16
Speaker
So there's all kinds of people out there with their dogs running around. And the earlier you get there, the less people, of course. So my dog needed a lot of exercise and I used to take him out there every weekend and he'd chase the frisbee and everything. And a guy come up to me and he says, wow, you got yourself a cattle hula there. I said, what?
00:30:38
Speaker
What did you say to me? Exactly. So, you know, they did have the Internet back at that time just a little bit. So I looked it up and sure enough, the cattle is like almost like a car. You know, it's it's it doesn't sound any better. Yeah. It's like a it's very close to a native dog, like almost like not a dingo, but, you know, like
00:31:05
Speaker
Yeah, wild dog. Yeah, something like that. And they use them down in the south. Catahoul is a is a parish in Louisiana. That's where it got its name. And they heard they're herding dogs. And Sammy tries to herd my son. Yeah, especially kids, like because they're small, so they don't know what to make of them. So they try and like nip at them and things like that.
00:31:29
Speaker
But they're an unusual breed. You should check them out. They're definitely cool-looking dogs. Yeah, they're odd. So what was the rest of this question? Has a client ever come to you with a job but a terrible idea?
Guiding Clients with Unrealistic Ideas
00:31:45
Speaker
All the time, pretty much every time.
00:31:48
Speaker
Yeah, anytime that they don't give us carte blanche, they're usually inspired by something that just doesn't work. Not to say that we know everything and they know nothing. It's just. But that's what we're saying. Yeah.
00:32:06
Speaker
Well, we come at it from a different point of view. I mean, we really are. We've gone to school with all of this stuff. And what they've done is seen something on Pinterest, right? And they'll try and squeeze 10 pounds of stuff into a five pound bag most of the time. And we have to gently show them
00:32:31
Speaker
Why it won't work, you know, sometimes it's just physically impossible. Yeah, and sometimes it's just ugly and I would say that for the most part once you show them they they go Oh, you know, you're right. Actually, I I didn't know that I was thinking that we could just take this picture and Transpose it into my house and it would work. Mm-hmm
00:32:57
Speaker
Oh yeah, we actually you see two two questions down oh Yeah, we're gonna totally sort of hit on how we go about You know basically talking them out of the bad idea yeah, and we don't really
00:33:16
Speaker
approach it that way like we're going to talk you out of this we're just going to show you something else. Yeah it's more we're going to talk you into the right idea. It doesn't it doesn't need to turn into a you're wrong we're right it's just no this is what. What do you think of this? Yeah this is what we need to do. You see how you can open the door here instead of bumping into the wall with the way you wanted to do it. Yeah like put two
00:33:42
Speaker
I've seen the kitchens with two base cabinets and no filler in a corner and the handles run into each other. But I want it that way. I saw a picture.
00:33:53
Speaker
Yeah, it happens a lot, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing. We're the pro and they're the layman. So their idea is it is bound to not be the best. Right. Right. It's just the that's nature. I don't go to the doctor and start giving ideas of how the surgery is going to go.
00:34:16
Speaker
Well, yeah, I think, you know, first maybe we cut open over here and then we move, you know, put in the forceps and hold over this thing. Are you sure about that, doc? Yeah, you didn't go to school for this, did you? No.
00:34:31
Speaker
Yeah, so we like to. Well, first off, we draw everything up. Yeah. I think by showing better examples, most people will naturally go in that direction. Yeah.
00:34:47
Speaker
Yeah, the proof is in the pudding. Yeah, I want to ask before We move on to the next question if you guys on clubhouse are having a hard time hearing us. Let me know because the phone is It's under a microphone. It's not the closest to Rob for sure. Yeah, it's pretty close to me, but I'm not sure how sensitive it is So if you can't hear just let us know
00:35:09
Speaker
OK, Matt says audio is perfect. Thanks, man. Next question from Kip Gillette on Instagram. What kind of insulation is in your shop? Yeah, that. Just the inexpensive fiberglass, the non-itchy kind of fiberglass, I guess, is what is that? What do you have, the cellulose stuff, the white? No, it was like the Pink Panther. Oh, no, it's all itchy. There's no such thing as not itchy.
00:35:36
Speaker
Now, what the hell? They're four by six walls. So so there's a six inch cavity. Right. And so you got or 20 or something. Yeah, it's 20 or 22. And it's the same thing in the ceiling just to spend it on, you know, little cleats up there, one by three cleats. But it's it's plenty. Oh, yeah. I mean, it stays
00:36:07
Speaker
Very comfortable in here with minimal heat and minimal air conditioning. And there's a lot of windows. I mean, 20% of the wall is window and door. The only place we really have a leak is where we have a hole cut in the wall so that the miter saw
00:36:25
Speaker
so we can cut stuff on the miter saw. Did we ever talk about that? I don't think so. Well, we have our miter saw set up on one of the shortest walls in the shop because that's just kind of the best place for as far as all the other tools and machinery, but one of the worst places for the miter saw. There's only 48 inches really to the blade.
00:36:51
Speaker
from the center of the blade to the wall right on the right hand side it's on the wall where our main entrance is which is a double door so it's a six foot door and it's on the narrow side of the building which is 24 feet on the outside so
00:37:11
Speaker
If you're cutting in one direction, it's fine because it shoots off towards the bigger part of the building. Even there, we only have about nine feet, I think, because of the cubbies. That's right. Yeah, we complicated things even further. And then the other side, what we did was we just cut a hole in the hole.
00:37:31
Speaker
Yeah, so there's a little trapdoor that you flip open and you can stick the piece into the dust collector room. Yeah, we just run a board out of the shop into the dust collection room.
00:37:45
Speaker
You know, it's just like it's basically announced. It's an outside closet. Yeah. Yeah. It's not insulated. No, no. And the door, you know, it's not like a perfectly sealed door or anything. So it's pretty. It's the same temperature in there as it is outside. And there's even a limitation to the link there. I think we get about 60. Yeah. We get about 60 inches or so. 62 something like that. But I mean, it's not really a problem. But insulation. You just flip the board.
00:38:10
Speaker
It makes a big, big difference, I think. Actually, now I'm thinking about it. You do have white insulation because I saw it. Oh, that's right. It's that John's Manville cellulose. Yeah. Yeah. That has plastic on two sides. Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. That stuff is definitely less itchy just because it's not as exposed. Right. It's, you know, encapsulated in that plastic. I think I did that because, you know, it's bored and bad. And on the outside, there's no like. Oh, so it was like your vapor barrier. Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:40
Speaker
So I guess that's it on that question. That's pretty straightforward. Yeah. So here's our next question that's going to probably better answer your question over at, sorry, I don't know your first name, Rab, Brad Design.
Educating Clients on Craftsmanship
00:38:53
Speaker
Maybe it's Rab. Or Brad. Yeah. Or Brad. Yeah.
00:39:01
Speaker
Yeah, it could be RA Brad design. We kill a lot of people's names before. Ira Jan. Ira Jan. Ira Jan. Not El Rajan. Or Rajan. Ira Jan. And Shumaker. We've been killing Shumaker's names too. David Shumaker. Not Shumaker. Although, it's always good to have an alias. What? You have an alias? Oh, I have plenty. Can you give any of the names out?
00:39:33
Speaker
I told you, my first passport actually says known as on it. I mean, I've had more identities than James Bond. Steven Weintraut, that's my alias. No, you see, mine have real paper trails. That's why I wanted to mention it on air. You're going to have to become a patron if you want that information.
00:40:01
Speaker
Here's our next question. How important is it to educate your customers with what it takes to do what you do? Reason for asking. Most people's view of what it takes to produce a really good piece is non-existent. If they only knew the process, care, attention, and effort not to mention expertise, their appreciation and maybe even acceptance of a given price would change.
00:40:24
Speaker
I think educating customers is sometimes key. That being said, not everyone can appreciate or will appreciate true craftsmanship. Sometimes I think about how much people charge for a good steak, but we never question why. We're willing to pay for it. But somehow for us, it doesn't quite work that way. For example, I always think of pointing out to customers cathedrals up on end panels.
00:40:50
Speaker
Grain matching throughout cabinetry and the difference in quality and difference in product, even if they look similar. Where are they sourced? Opening up their eyes to things that may be obvious to you and I, but, uh,
00:41:03
Speaker
Sorry, I didn't read the, I don't always read the question before, so I'm trying to read off the cuff. Opening up their eyes to things that may be obvious to you and I, but educate them to look at these things as they now compare your work to others. That's from our buddy Lou. Yeah, old friend Lou. That's a great question. Sorry I butchered the end of your question, Lou. I think everybody understands the gist of it, you know, why
00:41:30
Speaker
In most instances is our craft underappreciated. Yeah. And what am I trying to say here? Not really like examined closely. Yeah. It's kind of just like, oh, there it is. Yeah. Well, I mean, comparing it to a steak, I would say,
00:41:57
Speaker
You can really, you really have this immediate impact if you eat a bad steak as opposed to a good steak.
Craftsmanship Appreciation vs. Designer Goods
00:42:05
Speaker
It's tough, it's chewy, it doesn't have flavor. A little sour. Yeah, possibly. And the shame of it all is
00:42:17
Speaker
there you can sort of masquerade a piece of junk as something better in the short term.
00:42:28
Speaker
Yeah, you know, like you see commercials for places like Applebee's or something like that. And they have, oh, this steak's got blue cheese and crispy onions on top. That's the warning sign. Yeah, they're polishing up a turd, as we say. Layering up stuff on top. Which we see in our business as well.
00:42:52
Speaker
the particle board cabinet with a I won't say a nice door, but a fancy door with a fancy paint job over top of it. Right. Right. That's what's going on. They're sort of dressing up, you know, a box with and spending their effort on that superficial part of the of the work. And I think another thing that Lou points out is sometimes people just don't appreciate
00:43:23
Speaker
craftsmanship and they don't really care if what we do is better for the lack of a different word.
00:43:33
Speaker
Oh, yeah. And, you know, you can't really blame people because we all, you know, we all put value on different things in our lives. And if just because you don't like furniture or cabinetry doesn't mean that ever, you know, that we all should. I'm not saying that everybody should hold it as near and dear as we do. But, you know, it is discouraging when you run into these people who, you know, you put a drawing out to them and a price and
00:44:03
Speaker
when they don't see the value in it, you know, you can't help but take it a little personally. Right. Because, you know, we've dedicated our adult lives to this.
00:44:13
Speaker
I'm a firm believer that a lot of the stuff that we do can't be shown off in the same way that other expensive products can be like. The thing that always comes to my mind is like a designer handbag where women would gladly spend a couple of thousand dollars on a handbag that
00:44:39
Speaker
For any reasonable person, you could say, where does that cost go? Why is that handbag $3,000? Is there $3,000 worth of material and labor in there with a reasonable fee? It's the designer's name. Yeah, I mean, it's a little both, I think. Yeah, but see, somebody could take that out.
00:45:04
Speaker
and about just like a car. Yeah, no, I agree with that. And it's a status symbol. Yeah. Look at me. I can afford this. I spent money on this. And isn't this nice? Don't you wish you had one? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's levels to it. And I'm not going to try and name names and make assumptions as to what they do. But you know, there's like the designer handbag, like that's a green street. And then there's the one that's like the one that's expensive, but it's really a piece of shit.
00:45:33
Speaker
Yeah, well, yeah, a lot of knockoffs in that business, too. It's like buying like a... What is it I've been seeing recently? Like the BMWs and it's a video of people like pushing on like the dashboard and stuff and it's like making these creaky plasticky sounds. So that's an expensive car that's really a piece of shit.
00:45:53
Speaker
but then you buy a Bentley and the interior was all hand stitched by a person, you know, so. Yeah, they've been working there for 30 years. Right. They have personal investment. The woman who's been stitching those steering wheels by hand, you know. That's the kind of stuff that shows and maybe you have to be. I want to say you don't have to be a tradesman.
00:46:21
Speaker
Or work with your hands to appreciate because we have plenty of customers who do Appreciate it and they tell us so and they're they're not attached
Converting Clients through Education
00:46:30
Speaker
to the trades in any way shape or form No, I'd say ninety nine point nine percent of our clients are You know in some sort of a what we would call I guess a white collar. Yeah. Yeah and
00:46:46
Speaker
He's, you know, Lou's touching on a lot of stuff. These are real, you know, hot button topics for people who do what we do. I'd say, you know, to boil it down to brass tacks to answer the overarching question, how important is it to educate your customers? It's, I mean, if you want to
00:47:08
Speaker
turn non-customers into customers, you don't really have a choice but to try and educate them. It's either the person is on board from the get-go or they're not and you have to make them understand why it costs $15,000 to build a cabinet to hold the coffee maker.
00:47:27
Speaker
Right. I mean, a kitchen's a good example. You see lots of ads for places that sell kitchens. We'll install a kitchen, you know, for a few thousand dollars here and there. But even like the Home Depot type of kitchen where
00:47:44
Speaker
You're getting you could you could go into a box store like Home Depot and pick out a whole suite of cabinets and they're going to look pretty nice from the outside to a regular person who's just kind of looking at the door style and things like that. Yeah. I mean, you and I, we'd pick it apart, right?
00:48:05
Speaker
But that that's not most people. They're going to look and go, wow, this is this is a really beautiful cabinet. And so let's say they spent six thousand dollars on cabinets. They pay a couple of guys a few thousand dollars to put them in and they're in and out for eight thousand dollars.
00:48:25
Speaker
Then we give them a price for $28,000, let's say. They go, what the hell? These guys are trying to steal from us. This is the same kitchen for $20,000 more. We have to show why
00:48:45
Speaker
You know, we're $28,000 more. We might be making less profit. We're absolutely making less profit than the combination of the two guys with, you know, the installer. Yeah. Those, I mean, those cabinets were made offshore. Yeah. And.
00:49:02
Speaker
And we do. We come in with full soup to nuts breakdown, written spreadsheets, drawings. We do our best to explain what, you know, all of the extra costs that where we're not cutting the corners. I would say that 50% of the time somebody will go for that. You know, a lot of times it's where they have the money or not.
00:49:32
Speaker
not whether they're willing to do it, but whether they have it. What do you think Jeff? It's hard to say. I think the clients are coming in more and more like pre-primed and knowing what to expect.
00:49:47
Speaker
Mostly I'd say to do the vetting process that we're kind of going through where, you know, like the, the new client questionnaire is the gatekeeper. If you can't get past the gatekeeper, then we're not even getting to the point of giving you a price where you say, holy fuck, why is it a hundred percent more than it was going to be with Home Depot or whatever. Um, so it's, you know, we're coming into it less and less and, um,
00:50:15
Speaker
So we're having to do less of the educating, I'd say. Yeah. Yeah. But it's always going to be. It's always going to be good to know how to. Explain the process and the the reasoning behind the price to the client. Sure, sure. And. You know, somebody is making an investment in something as important and integral to their lives as a kitchen.
00:50:47
Speaker
It's a big decision and people will only want to do it once. Those are good opportunities for us to show what we do. One of those presentations because there's so many small details where we can illustrate why we're different and where that extra cost is going. And you can't always expect it to hit home. It falls on deaf ears a lot of times too.
00:51:15
Speaker
Well, yeah, there's people that they just don't want to hear it. It's a numbers game. Yeah. Yeah. Like, you know, going back to the steak analogy, we have a wagyu steak and, you know.
00:51:30
Speaker
Some people are never going to be able to stomach the price no matter how appealing you make it sound or how you explain how, you know, they massage the cow with sake every morning and blah, blah, blah. Some people just don't care. You know, that's their prerogative. And some people won't be able to taste the difference. Yeah. Some people would rather go to Mickey D's. Yeah. It's it's it's all out there. It's a lot of different types of folks. I think that was a great question.
00:52:00
Speaker
And we're glad to have Lou on board here. Yeah. You want to take this next one? Actually, I'm going to pull up the email. All right.
00:52:12
Speaker
You want me to read it out? Yeah. Um, Jack, Jack Thornton, 98 and Instagram. He's our, uh, intern listener, right? He's, he's got an internship going. Yeah. An apprenticeship. I got an email from Jack. I'm going to read it here once we're done with this question.
Scraped vs. Sanded Finishes
00:52:27
Speaker
Uh, he's asking scraped verse sanded finish. What are the pros and cons?
00:52:35
Speaker
Well, we actually, we don't really finish anything by scraping. We scrape to deal with tear out, stuff like that. Yeah, clean up. Yeah, to clean mill marks off of edges, but just not really conducive to our workflow. I certainly know it's a very good technique and you can get some beautiful finishes with it, but just not something we really do.
00:53:03
Speaker
No, we don't. What would you say are our pros to a scrape finish? Any? You don't have to sand. That's a pro. That's you got me right there. I'm sold right right off the bat. Yeah, I'd say a con. You know, you got to keep the scraper.
00:53:25
Speaker
with a hook on it, you know, you get four hooks on a scraper, then you're gonna be stopping to put new hooks on, or you may even have to put them on a stone to get the edge reset, especially if you're, of course my wife texted me here during the podcast, even though she knows we're doing the podcast. What was I saying? Hooks, scrapers. Yeah, you know, you might have to touch them on the stone to,
00:53:54
Speaker
to get them back to be able to cut, especially for a finished. Yeah. Finish surface sandpaper. You just throw it away and put a new one on. Yeah. One big pro for me for most of the time, even though, like Jeff said, we don't do a scrape finish, is the quiet. Yeah. I mean, spending all day sanding with the machine humming, even though we have
00:54:20
Speaker
some of the quietest vacuums sold, some of the nicest sanders sold. It's still, it's not that enjoyable. You really have to get in the zone when you're doing a lot of sanding. You have to just say, this is it, this is my day here.
00:54:42
Speaker
Because it's such an important job to laying down a good finish that you can't skip steps, you can't skip grits, you can't half-ass it in any way, you got to get all the marks out. So you just got to find peace with it.
00:55:05
Speaker
I don't know, Jack, you tell us what, you know, what are your experiences now that you've, uh, you know, got some time in the wood shop. I'd even like to see some of the things you're working on. Yeah. You sent a couple of pictures on here. So we got a, I got an email from Jack here on, let's see, 22nd, what was that?
00:55:29
Speaker
Saturday maybe? Friday? What's today? 24th? Oh no. Monday. Monday. 24th. So. Excuse me. Dear Jeff and Rob, first and foremost, I would like to thank you too for putting time aside each week to deliver an informative and entertaining podcast.
00:55:49
Speaker
It's always a highlight for me to see the podcast come through every Thursday, Australia time, because I know I will learn something new. I think it's about time I give the two of you a more detailed insight to my apprenticeship. Nice.
Jack Thornton's Apprenticeship Experience
00:56:03
Speaker
My apprenticeship began a day before my 23rd birthday on the 11th of January, a mere 400 meters from my home in...
00:56:10
Speaker
Botany, that's how it's spelled, I'm probably saying that wrong. The company is called Jonathan West, named after the boss, and we specialize in high end custom furniture, joinery, and cabinets. All our work is one of a kind as the boss actively seeks out interesting and unique work which provides a wide variety of work and opportunities to learn. We have a large open floor workshop equipped with digital fences and height adjustments on all machines. A far cry from the old school cast iron machinery I am used to from bolt building.
00:56:39
Speaker
including a panel saw, European slider, thicknesser joiner combo, dual belt sander, spindle molder, and band saw. We also have a CNC machine capable of 5x10 work, which we cut all of our carcasses for cabinets on. I will be completing the theory part of the apprenticeship online to achieve a certificate 3 in cabinet making.
00:57:01
Speaker
I am very lucky as I will be exposed to a wide variety of work within the furniture and cabinet making industry from install to build to finishing to custom furniture making. Your podcast is very handy to myself as the plan is once I finish the apprenticeship to head to America and learn, work and travel over there.
00:57:18
Speaker
So being able to dissect knowledge from the front line of high quality work in America is invaluable to me. Keep on fighting the good fight and spreading knowledge throughout the woodworking world. Rising Tide rises all ships. Cheers, Jack Thornton. Sydney, Australia. Delmore Woodworking. That's his side hustle business name.
00:57:38
Speaker
That was awesome. Yeah. That was really inspiring to hear. And then he sent some pictures. Oh, nice. Um, bedside table for myself out of Jara waterfall table. Grain wrapped is mitered down here.
00:57:53
Speaker
Yeah, I could see that. Is it wood we don't really get our hands on over here? Yeah, black butt louvered doors for a walk-in wardrobe and a brass-wrapped hallway table the boss built a few years ago getting some touch-ups and a polish. Those louvered doors are cool. Yeah. A lot of work doing all those those little mortises. Wow, look at that. Yeah, it's very cool. Is that a Festival Sanders? Yeah, yep.
00:58:22
Speaker
Hey, thanks, Jack. We really appreciate it. Yeah, yeah, I'm excited to hear how things go. And of course, if he ever makes his way on the East Coast here. That's what I said. I said, when you're stateside, you got to stop by. I know those Australians from my time backpacking through Europe myself, they traveled extensively. Oh, yeah. You know, and they're party animals. Yes, they will be on, you know, two, three year trips.
00:58:51
Speaker
Uh, and I guess it has to do with how far away they are from, you know, a lot of stuff here in the West. So once you're out, you want to make the most of it. That was really nice to hear about Jack. We've been after him to send us some stuff and that's cool. So you want to move on? Yeah.
00:59:15
Speaker
All right, I'll read this. Most of my machines are old, 1930 to 1980, and British made.
Old vs. New Woodworking Machines
00:59:23
Speaker
I like them because they're basic, reliable, very well made, and cheap to purchase compared to equivalent new machines. I see you tend to prefer buying newer machines. Any particular reason? Really enjoy listening to you boys. Keep up the good work. Well, thank you very much.
00:59:42
Speaker
That's Matt Richardson Arch Woodwork on Instagram. And Matt's in Derbyshire, England. Do you say it Derbyshire or do they say Derbyshire? Derbyshire. We have no idea. I say Derbyshire sounds about right. Yeah, school us a little bit on that Matt. We just don't know what we're talking about. Yeah, my sister's husband is from Malden, which I always thought was Maldon.
01:00:13
Speaker
And I thought it was in France. Famous for their salt. You see, Matt, we don't know what we're talking about. Famous for their salt. I don't know why I assumed. Because Brittany, I guess, is famous for their salt. I just assumed it was kind of moving in that area. Our shops in Port Monmouth. Monmouth. Yeah. Even here, when we're talking to somebody in another state, they always say Monmouth.
01:00:36
Speaker
And we say no Monmouth. Yeah, like the Battle of Monmouth. Yeah. Revolutionary war times. So we beat you English. I'm just kidding. Just kidding. I'd say this comes down to just time. Yeah. With a new machine, this the planer, for instance, right over here, the new Oliver Planer 20 inch. It was dropped off at 11.
01:01:05
Speaker
We had to get that and another machine into the shop. By 1.15, I was planing pieces of wood through there. Yeah. And that's literally uncreating it, setting it up, like putting it together and using it. Yeah. So the cost up front is more. It's a three thousand dollar planer.
01:01:26
Speaker
Let's say we could get an equivalent 1930s planer for a thousand bucks or 500 bucks. Right. The time it's going to take us because it's probably not going to be in perfect working order. No. The time it's going to take us to get it set up to learn the machine without a instruction manual or the Internet or video. It's going to be more. There's not going to be parts readily available. Right. It's not going to have the creature comforts like a digital readout.
01:01:55
Speaker
So that's sort of why I would go with a new machine versus an old. I definitely don't have anything against old machines. I think a lot of the old machines are way better than the new machines. But, you know, when you're working in a shop trying to make a living, sometimes you just got to pony up the cash up front.
01:02:14
Speaker
Yeah, I agree with everything you said. I would say that there's the availability first. We have to hunt down the right machine, the right old machine. Yeah, we're not in an area where they're plentiful. Right. So we probably have to go to an auction and bid on it and frayed it here. Yeah. So that raises the cost. Then in an auction, you got to pay 15 percent above what you've
01:02:41
Speaker
you know, purchase the machine for. And then we have to become schooled in that particular machine. Now we have to be able to repair it. We have one used machine here that we wound up taking apart, putting back together three or four times. And now we know the machine, but it just wasn't worth the time.
01:03:06
Speaker
because every time we had to do something, the machine was down. Now it'll cost us too much to get rid of it and try and figure that out than it is to just keep it and deal with it. And we take good care of our machines and we're able to sell our used machine for a really good price, bring in a new machine for sort of a nominal upcharge, really.
01:03:33
Speaker
And that way it's sort of almost like driving a new car every five years. Once it gets to the point where we're going to start needing to upkeep and service, that's downtime in the shop that we just can't really afford to have.
01:03:51
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, all these machines are vital. We use them. I mean, I'd say the bandsaw and the drill press get used the least. Right. But like jointer, planer, table saw, sander, those things get used every single day. We were, I mean, we were without this planer between the time that we sold to this guy, Matt, right? Yeah, Matt. He's up in North Jersey. Nice guy.
01:04:15
Speaker
between the time we sold that to him last Tuesday and receiving this on, what was it, Monday? Yeah. I mean, we had wood piling up to be played. Every, everything comes in here. Every job in the shop had parts waiting to go through. Yeah. Cause we don't have any wood that's, that's ready to go.
01:04:35
Speaker
No. So there's no time for downtime here. If we had a big 10,000 square foot shop and we could buy a
01:04:46
Speaker
an old machine and bring it in and maybe this week we replace the bearings and then next week we change the belts and then we grease the whole thing and try it out and that'd be one thing but there's no room here for dead dead wood. Yeah. That's a good point. I mean the floor space is limited so every machine every person here has to pull their weight and you know I like that phrase dead wood.
01:05:15
Speaker
You know, no dead wood. So we're managing to clear that out. And we're pretty pleased with this. We'll give an update on our new machines. Yeah. The next question, we'll get into that a little bit. All right. Well, thanks a lot, Matt.
01:05:35
Speaker
had this one come in via email. Well, well, or maybe it was a message on Patreon. This from our patron Jerry. He's a GA wood shop or workshop wood shop, I believe workshop. I forget Jerry's in Chicago, although you might think Georgia with GA like we know. Yeah. Well, we got to get to the bottom of that GA. He he told us why.
01:05:59
Speaker
It has to do with the company name. I can't remember off the top of my head though. All right. So it's GA is the initials of the company. Something like that. All right. All right. We're going to have to get to the bottom of that. I need to know. I just got an email from sauce sauce. Yeah. They probably got the shipment. I wanted to know how to get the crate open. Yeah.
01:06:28
Speaker
Anyway, sorry, I got distracted by this email. I'm reading the email. We should be podcasting. Here's our little message from Jerry. Hey Jeff, hope you guys are warming up a bit. It was 45 here in Chicago today. I was wondering if you guys could discuss why you chose Oliver versus Grizzly or Powermatic.
Oliver Tools Preference
01:06:44
Speaker
I know you have talked a bit about it in the past. For someone like me who is building a new shop and slowly adding tools, picking a brand to go with is tough. Price versus quality versus features. In my old shop, I had Delta tools, but that was back in the 90s when they were good tools. Thanks, Jerry. Interesting. Yeah.
01:07:06
Speaker
We don't have a Powermatic in the shop. We do have a Grizzly bandsaw, which we're perfectly satisfied with and as far as value for the dollar, I think it was $795 when I bought it, so we'll ride that thing down to the ground, I suppose. Yeah, you're not gonna find that price again. No. And
01:07:31
Speaker
I started the Oliver thing back when we moved into this shop and I bought the Oliver jointer. That was what, 2004? Yeah, I think it was 2004. We have a 10 inch Oliver jointer and unbeknownst to me, I thought
01:07:48
Speaker
It was made in America. It was sort of the reintroduction of Oliver. Yeah. 1999 is when Oliver started. They moved the manufacturer to Taiwan. Yeah. It's sold to a parent company. Right. And I chose that joiner because in that price zone, which was about $2,000 at the time,
01:08:16
Speaker
It was 10 inches and it had the longest bed, seven foot bed. And to me, that's the most important thing in that category. And so I bought it and was just really impressed with it since. And Jeff came in and saw it and a lot of folks have come into the shop and said, wow, Oliver, I didn't know they still made tools. And this is really nice.
01:08:44
Speaker
So you could probably pick it up from there. Yeah, so we've always, I mean, I'm speaking for myself, I've always had an interest in like the other Oliver tools, having, you know, been around these industrial tools for a while, seeing different brands, using different tools, you know, this joiner was just such a gem.
01:09:06
Speaker
Like the thing is bulletproof. All we do, I've said it before, we just turn it on and then turn it off. That's the only thing. There's no changing the depth of cut. I mean, it's just always on a like a three thirty second kind of cut or a thirty second. I don't know what the hell we have. It's a pretty light pass. It's maybe a thirty second, not three thirty second.
01:09:35
Speaker
But yeah, I mean, we don't fiddle with anything. We move the the fence in and out to do edges or wide boards, but that's it. It just always works. And I mean, I've worked with some joiners that suck. I mean, they really suck. Yeah. So I've always been interested in trying another Oliver. So, you know, when it was time to.
01:09:57
Speaker
get some new tools. I mean, it was an obvious choice. When you look at the prices, the Oliver tools are typically less or the same and they have better features. Yeah. Yeah. I would say that their main competitor as far as a similar machine would be the upper range of the Grizzly machines. Yeah.
01:10:21
Speaker
Now, of course, Grizzly has a huge variety of machines. So you got to find the one that fits, you know, compare it to. But we think the quality is it's probably the same because they're coming out of the same or a very, very similar factory. Yeah. So it's all about how it's kitted out, you know, what like the the planer has the has the gauge on it had
01:10:50
Speaker
You know the flat bed instead of the bed that goes up and down. So that's what we looked for. And then there was the brand. We wanted to try and develop a relationship. Right. I mean they have a cool blue paint job. Yeah that's true.
01:11:11
Speaker
But we did, we wanted to, we had posted a few things online that featured the joiner. And so we sort of developed a conversation with Oliver at the time. And we were able to talk to them about the machines and we felt comfortable. And that was part of it too. Speaking to people directly at the company.
01:11:36
Speaker
So it wasn't just like putting in an order and the tools came. Yeah, there's like more of a feeling of accountability there where to just buy some Excite Unseen from whatever distributor or even direct from the manufacturer
01:11:56
Speaker
You don't talk to anybody. It just feels a little sterile. Whereas this was, you know, we're on a first name basis with a couple of people at at Oliver from talking about the tools. Yeah. And they feel a little bit smaller than some of the other companies. Yeah. I mean, really, it's really apples to apples because.
01:12:15
Speaker
Pull out the Grizzly catalog, the Oliver catalog, and the Powermatic catalog. They're just like twins with a different paint job with a lot of these machines. We got a message from, I forget who it was, about the Shaper. They said, looks just like my Laguna. The Laguna planer looks just like this Oliver. The York craft planer we just got rid of looks just like the Grizzly, looks just like the Powermatic. So they're all being made in a small suite of factories in Taiwan.
01:12:44
Speaker
They're getting a different paint job and they're getting different little ancillary parts like the digital readout. So what you got to look at is the price and what it has feature-wise. Yeah, if it suits you. Yeah, the machine is basically the same. It's probably got the same motor. It's got the same
01:13:04
Speaker
you know, castings on the beds, on the all the motor mounts, stuff like that. It's probably all exactly the same. Yeah. The fit and finish. That's kind of it. It kind of goes with the price. Yeah. We we like it. I mean, they're beefy machines. A lot of cast iron.
01:13:28
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The shaper. I mean, the granite is not solid, but the table on that's, I mean, almost four inches thick. Yeah. Yeah. It's almost weighs almost 700 pounds. Yeah.
01:13:41
Speaker
And I was shocked at how easily we got the machines in here. I mean, aside from the fact that our neighbor Javier brought the telehandler and put the shaper into the shop for us. Without Javier, the machines are still outside. Getting it off of the off of the pallet and onto the mobile base. Like I just thought it was going to be more of a problem. Yeah. Considering we moved the sander and it took us like a half a day.
01:14:06
Speaker
Yeah, no, we got both machines in here in an hour. Yeah. Yeah, it's mentioning Javier. There's like a landscaping company that's just down the street, you know, maybe about 200 yards away.
01:14:22
Speaker
And they have a big yard with machinery and everything. So, one day, Jeff and I brazenly just walk over, introduce ourselves, go, hey, man, you got a nice telehandler over here. You got some machines coming in.
01:14:42
Speaker
But we we did send over almost $100 worth of sandwiches one day for lunch. Yeah, they helped us with the actually speaking of sauce. We just got the email in from sauce, but they we had to create up that wall that we built with John and the truck showed up. He's like, we're not gonna be able to get this in the truck. I think we talked about this, but
01:15:01
Speaker
Javier helped us out with the telehandler that day, so we sort of stroke up a relationship. Really nice guy, super smart, super talented, it seems. Yeah, he does. Almost everything. Yeah, I haven't seen anything he's done, but he definitely sounds like he knows what he's talking about.
01:15:18
Speaker
He's a fabricator. Yeah. Like he, um, he was talking about how they were. What the hell were they taking apart? Something on one of the big trucks and he was like, none of the wrenches work. So I just made one. Yeah. You know, he's one of those kinds of guys from Honduras. Really, really nice guy. He, I think he'd make a good podcast guest. Yeah. We'll have to have him here. Yeah.
01:15:39
Speaker
Yeah. Well, you're, you know, you're going for your vaccine tomorrow for your first one. Yeah. I'm waiting on my email. You know, I'm usually just a day or so behind as far as notification. I should say to next week. I know there's snow in the forecast. I don't know if it'll change anything, but Tim from true trade carpentry on Instagram, they'll be on the podcast. Cool. Yeah. March 3rd, Wednesday, March 3rd.
01:16:07
Speaker
Mark it down on your calendars. Yeah. Yeah. I've been trying to get Tim on for a long time. You know, we were holding off on the guests. We had John on, you know, because John has been around. We've all been working on the sauce thing and stuff. So he's part of like the little bubble of people. And then Tim, you know, he's basically works by himself.
01:16:32
Speaker
His wife works from home, kids aren't in school, so we figured very low risk there, so. He's like us. We live, we already lived in a bubble. Not much change for us.
01:16:51
Speaker
So, so what can we tell Jerry? You know, what price versus quality versus features in my old shop, I had Delta tools. He's looking for brands. I mean, we still have a Delta Unisaw. Yeah. And I don't know if you really need to choose one brand over another. No, no. Like when I started out, I had
01:17:13
Speaker
all different tools because they just picked the one that suited me best. I had Delta Unisaw, I had the Grizzly Bandsaw, the Yorkcraft Planer, the Bridgeport, little Spindle Shaper, the Oliver Joiner, and I had that
01:17:30
Speaker
What was that little sander? Not jet. It was before Jet bought them. Not Minimax. Super. Super Max. Was that what? No, the Performax. Performax.
Benefits of Smaller Companies
01:17:42
Speaker
Yeah. I had one of those little Performax Sanders and I have the Oneida dust collector.
01:17:48
Speaker
Yeah, I'd say you got to look at the machine and pick whichever has the best, you know, bang for your buck. Yeah. In terms of that price quality and feature. I think a smaller company like Oliver would be more inclined to knock something off the top. Whereas like if you said, hey, I'm going to buy four machines, what can you do? Yeah, maybe. Yeah. I'd say, um, shoot Oliver a message on Instagram.
01:18:15
Speaker
Drop our name. Yeah, that might that might be worth for a ham sandwich, maybe a Cuban sandwich Maybe a sweatshirt, maybe But yeah, if you have any specific questions about the machines we have Jerry, you know, you got
First Run on the New Shaper
01:18:34
Speaker
our number. Yeah, I
01:18:36
Speaker
Oh, here it comes. We got Matt's question. See if he's still listening. I know a guy. I know a guy. I, I K A G biz on Instagram. First bit you ran on the new shaper.
01:18:51
Speaker
No, it's not. We turned it on, so there was no bit in there at all. We don't have any dust collection. Hook up to it right now. Yeah, we're waiting on another Y to come tomorrow. Then we'll hook it up to dust. Then we'll probably throw something on there. Just for fun. We only have two cutters right now.
01:19:11
Speaker
Both. Well, one was brand new. We got off eBay and the other was used off of Facebook from some old man up in Maine who could barely keep up.
Buying Cutters Online
01:19:20
Speaker
He could barely like stay with the conversation I was having with him. He thought he was talking to other people and stuff. Who knows what the hell was going on with him? But aliens, he sent it out and then he goes, yeah, just send me a check. Yeah, that's right. I'm like, he goes, I trust you. I'm like,
01:19:38
Speaker
They don't make them like that anymore. Yeah, I mailed them a check. I mean, I guess we'll put the panel raising bit on there, right? Might as well put the big bit on. So we have a big freeborn. It's actually a custom bit that we bought. It's never been used. So it's a...
01:19:59
Speaker
I don't know what you would call it. We're not really up on the shaper terminology. It's like a cove panel. Yeah. That's what that's how I would describe it too. I know even less than you do. So yeah, it's like a six inch diameter. Yeah. Boy free born. Yeah. Keep your fingers away. Yes. We'll put that on there.
01:20:19
Speaker
And who knows what's going to happen. I'll have Rob do it. Try it out first. That's like more Becton stuff. Draws, draws. I'm holding on to the bullhorn. Jeff's like, wait a second. Let me get my safety glasses.
01:20:34
Speaker
you know he's younger than I am I figure yeah you know I had a good life it's like someone yeah there's a bomb that could go off let me put on my safety glasses like it's gonna do anything I have a cable snap it's gonna go right through those glasses
01:20:53
Speaker
So yeah, you'll be mad. If you're listening, you'll be the first to know how it works out. I'm just reading this question. This next one's pretty good. Yeah. You want to read it? Yeah, it's from our buddy Brian Hamlet Woodcraft on Instagram. He's out on Long Island, I believe. Oh, cool. Do you guys get constant requests from family and friends looking for a deal on work?
01:21:15
Speaker
If so, how do you guys manage the situation? Nobody seems to realize the labor and material costs that go into some projects, so I'm starting to think that just saying no to all family jobs and being shunned from family gatherings is a better option. Thanks for the podcast, Brian.
Handling Family Discounts
01:21:31
Speaker
Well, first off, I think, Jeff, you'll agree with me that being shunned from all family gatherings, I go for that any day. Sounds convenient.
01:21:43
Speaker
Sign me up. I mean, I got to stay home this weekend. Anything I can do to be shunned from family gatherings. Sign me up. Yeah. So I think you have your answer there. The short and sweet answer is just say no. Yeah. Yeah. And if you can't, then you literally just have to show them the labor and material cost like. Yeah.
01:22:13
Speaker
If you want it, I can send you our breakdown of cost like the itemized breakdown of cost template that we use and plug in the numbers and what does this say?
01:22:27
Speaker
Plug in the numbers and say look what you asked me for is a it's an eleven thousand dollar job Yeah, this is this is the other really important thing when I'm working on my cousin's Bedroom set I can't work on anything else So it's like I'm losing money on top of not making money. We've got Keith coming up to speak All right. Let's hear from you Keith
01:22:58
Speaker
Pete, you're live on the American Craftsman podcast. Yeah. Welcome back. Hey, thanks man. Hey, you guys got to send out that sheet to me, that work place that you did, that worksheet you got. Oh, for pricing. Absolutely.
01:23:16
Speaker
So it's in, um, it's in numbers, which is a, you know, Mac, but I'm your computer guy. I'm sure you can, I think it should open in, in an Excel file. Excel. Some of the things might not look, look right, but yeah. Nice. What do you, uh, what's the, uh, what machine are you looking at upgrade next? That's my question. Hmm. That's a good question.
01:23:42
Speaker
We've been kicking around the idea. Well, maybe not a full machine, but like a power feeder for the shaper. We're definitely. Yeah, definitely. Itching for one of those. And a portable edge bander.
01:23:56
Speaker
Right. We don't do a ton of edge banding, but it is, you know, shelves would be nice. Yeah, it's a thankless job and a tedious job when you have to do iron on edge banding. Yeah. So I think those would be good, good time savers. Yep. As far as the only other thing we talk about is replacing the Unisaw with another another saw stop.
Potential Workshop Upgrades
01:24:20
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. That's an expensive proposition.
01:24:24
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah. The dado gets used when it gets used and then. Yeah. When, when it's, it's sit there most of the time. Yeah. And we'd have to get the dado set up for the saw stop and then changing out the blade would mean changing out the detector thing. So I don't know. You know what I would say? Dust collection. Yeah, that's a good one.
01:24:48
Speaker
I'd love to have something that was a little bit stronger and I'd love to upgrade sort of like the layout with the piping because it's sort of like a poorly planned city up there. Oh yeah. Yeah, we learned a lot. Oneida has a service where they can kind of figure out the best laid plan for what you have in your shop.
01:25:11
Speaker
Yeah, you know, I have an Oneida dust collection system and I called them and said, yeah, I spent quite a bit of money with you guys. And can you help me out? And they said, no, that's something that we only do with new machine purchases. So even though I didn't use it at the time of my purchase, they told me to go kick rocks.
01:25:37
Speaker
Nice. No grandfather claws on that. No, no. Not even like, oh, yeah, we could do it for like 500 bucks or whatever. No, no. They said, yeah, we're pretty busy. So, you know, go away. What about you, Keith? I think I'm in the market for a drum sander. Like an open-ended drum sander, either a jet or a supermarket.
01:26:04
Speaker
Nice. Yeah, we had the 1632. Yeah. Yeah. It worked well. I mean, it just, you know, it just didn't have the power. It was underpowered for what we needed. Because we were, we were doing the altar rail at the church at the time when it like really started to sort of seem underpowered and it was hundreds, hundreds and hundreds of pieces going through that thing. Yeah. I'll tell you my big gripe with that machine and I had it for about
01:26:32
Speaker
eight or 10 years was that the mechanism that raises and lowers the bed is not accurate and inconsistent. A little sloppy. Yeah, so you might just tick the handle over like a 16th of a turn of a full turn and it would take off this huge swath and burn the material, get bogged down.
01:27:00
Speaker
And then other times you have to turn it like a whole quarter of a turn to get that sort of stock removal. Yeah. Yeah, it wasn't wasn't a precision instrument at times. Yeah, that's not to say that the one that we have is foolproof. No, you know, this Woodmaster's got a seven and a half horsepower motor, which I think is the biggest
01:27:25
Speaker
It's the biggest plus for us. It's just having the power to run wide stuff through it. Yeah, yeah. I wouldn't mind another shop where somebody else was doing that. Yeah. That would be my upgrade. I like a double wide belt sander. Yeah, yeah. They have oscillating ones too. It's like they have ones that have two different grits in it.
01:27:54
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, our drum sander has two grits. And we worked the shop we used to work in had an oscillating wide belt like a 3037 inch powermatic.
01:28:08
Speaker
And it, you know, it was all out of calibration and in bad shape, but in theory, I mean, an amazing machine. Yes, yes. You got to maintain those things. And at that shop, you know, the belts can be costly if you just look at the, you know, the purchase price of them and not what they're actually doing for you.
01:28:28
Speaker
And so a lot of people don't want to invest in the belts so they keep running Ball tires, so to speak and they then the performance goes down and then the machine starts to suffer So it's like everything else you get out of it what you put into it But I would love to have one of those machines here yeah, you know in lieu of what we have and
01:28:57
Speaker
Yeah, it couldn't take up any more space. I mean, I know that Sanders a monster. So, Keith, do you have any opinion about your family and friends asking you to do work for them?
01:29:14
Speaker
Um, if it's, uh, like the wife got no choice on that one. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's not what we're talking about. Like, you know, cousin Joe, he, he's, he wants you to, uh, you know, whip up a side table for his living room.
01:29:35
Speaker
You know, I had one of my wife's cousins wants to come down and actually build something. And I'm like, you know what? That's fine. And I've done some work for family, which I mean, it can get tricky, but, you know, if you lay everything out ahead of time, say, you know, look, if you want to just pay for, you know, material and, you know, this, that and the other, you know, and you can wait, you know, it's not going to be done in a week.
01:30:02
Speaker
You know, the paying clients are always first. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now, because what I always try to explain to my family, I don't explain anymore because after I stopped working for them, nobody contacts me.
01:30:17
Speaker
But when I'm working on their project, that's I'm not getting paid. So I'm not just doing their work for free, but now I'm losing money. I'm losing my regular paycheck. And I tell them, can you do something for me and not get paid at your regular job? I mean, no, that's unreasonable. Yeah.
01:30:40
Speaker
I don't think I've ever done anything free. You know, I've even done some woodworking stuff for my full-time job in Red Bank. And, you know, it's, you know, I may not charge them everything that I would normally charge, but, you know, they're still paying for some of my time and for all the materials. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. You got to, you know, pony up for the materials. Oh, yeah.
01:31:03
Speaker
Yeah, like I mean, for example, this weekend I'm going to be helping out. My sister-in-law owns a salon and my wife works there. So myself and my wife's stepdad are going to be doing like a little bit of work for the salon. Yeah. But like extended kind of family. Yeah.
01:31:24
Speaker
I think a lot of it has to do with like how your approach to like what's the what's the first right conversation about the whole thing and how they sort of frame it because if you're like coming at me with like can I get this for free like it's gonna put a bad taste in my mouth immediately oh yeah yeah and and that's that's sort of
01:31:47
Speaker
where my line is like if somebody asks me and it's you see there's a potential for it to happen then it's gonna be a freebie that's that's the whole thing I go into it knowing this is free no charge
01:32:02
Speaker
The last thing I did for free was my wife's cousins. They had these pair of French doors installed in an opening in their house So instead of there being just a framed opening they somebody came by put the doors in and where the two wood floors came together the contractor left
01:32:24
Speaker
the big gap there, so they needed a threshold that could span the gap and be the right height and all this other stuff. So I looked at it and I said, yeah, all right, I can do that. And although it was
01:32:39
Speaker
you know, a freebie. It really only took me about an hour. I pulled out a piece of maple here that we had so much of that was probably about, you know, a $12 or $15 board, cut the angles on it and all the little notches and stuff like that. And they were ecstatic. And they sent me a gift card and all this other stuff. And that's usually what happens when you, when you do things like that.
01:33:08
Speaker
Yeah, like I'll give you like a day, but I'm not going to build you a whole. You just I can't give you a deal on a project that's going to be a long term. Can't you? No, because we barely make it with the full price. That's right. They think we're stealing from them, right?
01:33:29
Speaker
Oh, all right. That was a great question from Brian. So what's our, uh, what's our recommendation to Brian? You know, uh, you just got to break them the bad news. Yeah. Yeah. You can't afford to do it for free. Definitely not for free. No. And, and you know,
01:33:49
Speaker
Maybe a discount, but if you're busy, you got to do what you need to for your business. Yeah. Maybe one of the relatives, they have a business or something like that that they're willing to bought or like, you know, maybe somebody owns a restaurant. You want to eat free for life, you know, a year or so.
01:34:11
Speaker
All right, so hang in there. Brian and Keith, you want to hang in and listen to the next couple of questions and chime in. Yeah, sure. I was going to say, Brian, refer back to the second question with Tom about where to hide a body because you might be able to work somehow with that in your current problem.
01:34:35
Speaker
All right, so we got another question from Dave. He's the blue Gerson on Instagram. And he asks us, you guys do anything to recycle sawdust?
Sawdust Recycling Ideas
01:34:48
Speaker
Yeah, we recycle it right back out outside where the trees came from. Yeah. We've got yards and yards of sawdust here just dumped around the property. You know, and it gets gets a little shorter. The stacks get a little shorter every day. Yeah. It's all covered with snow at the moment.
01:35:12
Speaker
Yeah, we have an area right behind. There's about 20 feet between the shop and the and the fence. That's that was the setback that we had to have when we put the building up. And that's probably about three feet deep in wood chips. So it's a little spongy. And here are
01:35:33
Speaker
There are some areas that are good like four and five feet tall. Yeah. So, but then we have this other area of yard that we have to use a wheelbarrow to take the chips off. We call that the back 40 and it's, it's an area of yard that's just, uh, you know, overgrown with trees and you know, we don't do anything. There's no grass over there and we cleared out an area of about
01:35:58
Speaker
I don't know, 50 by 25 and we just wheelbarrowed over there and we started dumping there last year.
01:36:06
Speaker
Yeah, it gets tough to walk back there because it's so soft. Yeah. So we have, you know, anywhere in the yard, there's probably about three foot of wood chips. And I've tried using it and like planting beds and stuff like that. But, you know, we rarely have one species running through the shop in that sort of abundance where we could do a large area.
01:36:33
Speaker
Um, so we just try and spread it out all over the place. We haven't shipped it out or anything like that ever. No. What do you do Keith? You know, I've, I've seen a lot of people take this sawdust and mix it with, you know, uh, an epoxy or some kind of resin and make either coasters or, you know, Christmas ornaments out of it. You turn them on the lathe.
01:36:59
Speaker
You know, stuff like that where you're not using it all the time, but you can make something with it. Well, if somebody wants to come pick up wash the oil dust for that, they can make enough ornaments for every, every person in the US. Yeah. They could come and get it. We're, we'll give it to them for free.
01:37:17
Speaker
You know what I saw was, uh, what's his name on YouTube? Uh, guy out in like the, in Oregon or Washington state. Yeah. Yeah. He's on. I was thinking maker's mob with John. He did. Uh, didn't he do epoxy with, he put like a cup inside his dust collector thing and, and collected the different layers of different types of wood.
01:37:45
Speaker
Yeah, yeah, he definitely did that. That was one of the ideas that I was thinking. I was like, you did that. Definitely. Yeah, that was cool. So it had like that stratified look of different species. Yeah. I mean, we finally got a strong connection now to a dude that comes and picks up our wood scraps. Yeah. We gave away five big rubbermaid cans full of scrap wood about what, two weeks ago. Yeah. Yeah.
01:38:12
Speaker
Surprisingly hard to find people to come get that stuff. Yeah, he wants more so We got it Got another two cans almost already now all we need to find is somebody to come get the sawdust Yeah, they'll really be hooked up start throwing it over the fence into food town. Yeah
01:38:34
Speaker
Yeah. We got some type of cannon that we could shoot it up into the air and then it would just kind of blow around and get dispersed. Let it dissipate. It's only like 30 gallons at a time. That's right. That's right. So if there are any suggestions out there as what to do with the
01:38:52
Speaker
sawdust. It's mostly chips. I mean, yeah. We do get fine, real fine dust off the sander. We've had this come up before. People have suggested like donate it to the animal shelter. And I mean, we didn't really look into that. But yeah, you know, we're busy. We're busy guys. The problem is there's some species like walnut that I know horses can't get in on that. And then the other thing is
01:39:20
Speaker
We'd have to sort it because if you're running plywood through the table saw, that plywood dust is in there. You know, I got a gripe. I just thought.
01:39:31
Speaker
I called our insurance agent this morning about nine o'clock. They never got back to us. I'll call you back in five to 10 minutes. I never got a call. Yeah. What is that? People say, I'll call you back right away. I'll call you back in five minutes. Maximum, maximum 10 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just, I just got to finish what I'm doing here. Yeah. Does that ever happen to you, Keith? Sometimes. Yeah. You know, you can't always count on people calling you back.
01:40:02
Speaker
Keith sounds like a nice guy, doesn't he? It doesn't sound like a gripe when you say it, Keith. Well, that's a good thing, right? You're too reasonable. We're just grumpy over here.
01:40:23
Speaker
Well, it's bringing us to our last question. Yeah. From our buddy Manny, we called in a favor. We needed some more questions. We were a little light on questions this week.
Meaning of 'Making It' in the Field
01:40:31
Speaker
Although I'm seeing we're up at an hour, hour and 40. So Manny asked, when did you guys realize that you had made it?
01:40:40
Speaker
How does it feel knowing so many people look up to you and look forward to seeing your work? My response was, I don't think we have made it. No, no, we didn't. We didn't make it. And I mean, I don't know if you're talking about like Jeff's son, Hunter. He probably looks up to us a little bit.
01:41:01
Speaker
He's vertically challenged. That's right. That's that's crazy sounding. That's crazy talk Manny. Yeah, I think even people who have made it by most standards.
01:41:22
Speaker
The reason they don't think they've made it is is part of that process. You know, they're always pushing and striving. And that's part of the, I think, formula for success. Yes, to never be satisfied with where you're at. I would say as far as making a living at something we love and maybe, you know, it's unique to some respect. You know, we're not a factory here. We are.
01:41:52
Speaker
making our own rules for the, for the most part. All right. We've achieved that, but, um,
01:42:00
Speaker
made it means it sort of has a finality to it, doesn't it? Right. And that was my sort of thought. It's like, you know, we're always just a few months away from no work or sometimes it gets to the days or weeks or days where it's like, if we don't get a job in the next couple of days, we're out of work. You know, I don't think
01:42:25
Speaker
You know, we'll ever feel like we made it unless we're booked up for, you know, we're talking multiple years. Right. Time. When our name has cachet to the point where, you know, people say, oh, this is a green street. Yeah. We don't have to worry. There's work coming in.
01:42:42
Speaker
How does it feel knowing so many people look up to you and look forward to seeing your work? That's I mean totally humbling to just share stuff and be able to communicate with all kinds of different people and meet different people. It's been awesome.
01:42:57
Speaker
Yeah, the second part of that question, I think there's a communal spirit out there that is new to people my age, especially, I think, where we come from a time of more
01:43:14
Speaker
competition, where if somebody was in the same line, you really would probably not be sharing things with them. Oh yeah, you'd leave them in a ditch if you saw them on the side of the road. Right, and I think that's pretty wonderful that the internet has
01:43:31
Speaker
spawn this type of generosity of spirit and goodwill because I think that it suits me and I think it suits us as a company, as a group. And my advice for people from my generation is to take a look around and see there is a new world out there and to embrace it and be a part of it.
01:43:59
Speaker
because I think it's better than the other one that we're leaving behind. Yeah, I agree. Yeah. Really deep. Cut me to the core. Yeah, well, I'm 58. I'm pushing 60. My experience at my age makes me like a, you know, a late boomer, but my life experience
01:44:25
Speaker
probably pushes me more towards the other generation like a Gen Xer. So I probably have a different outlook towards life but thankfully you know I've been open enough and to me partnering up with Jeff who's like almost half my age
01:44:42
Speaker
That's the bonus, you know, because he's into all this stuff. And if I was left to my own devices, I'd probably just be here working, waiting for the phone to ring like I did for the first 15 years. But I wouldn't have a podcast, wouldn't be doing all this stuff on Instagram and Clubhouse and all that. So these are the highlights of my work experience now.
01:45:11
Speaker
And I really appreciate that. Yeah. I've thrown into very few people that haven't been like willing to share. Most recently I had someone tell me, you know, I was going to offer help and they were like, Oh, well, it's really not great since we're competing. Like, well, we're really not, you know, but it's, uh,
01:45:33
Speaker
And for the most part, everybody's been really open in this community. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Like, for example, so we ran into like an issue with the hinges on this this piece that we're building where we need them to go 270 and we can't we couldn't find anything that looked nice. So and then the hinges that we ended up picking, they don't go the 270. So like I reached out to Lucas, man made in mass. And like he's going to try and maybe make us
01:46:02
Speaker
Hinges like out of brass like braise them and so I mean just to have
01:46:07
Speaker
the ability to reach out to someone who's, you know, six hours away who has the ability to collaborate on something. I mean, it's crazy. I mean, think about when we first met John Peters and like, so we didn't, I didn't really know anything about John Peters or what he did. I figured he was a guy like me, you know, that he had a, he was a, had a wood shop and this and that and the other thing. And, um,
01:46:36
Speaker
I didn't know why John would be interested in working with us. And now it's like, what a great friendship and a great relationship. And you see there, of course, it's a complementary relationship. But that was sort of like adjusting to that way of thinking.
01:46:59
Speaker
It's like, huh. Yeah, like, and some people don't understand the whole social media and they think it's all like superficial, but it's really not. I mean, I'd say that's the minority of the interaction is this sort of, I don't know, fakie kind of thing. It's like that with everything, you know, like TV. TV can be crap.
01:47:27
Speaker
Or you can watch some show on PBS that teaches you about, you know, an event in history that you didn't know about or like the Banana Wars, you know, the Tulsa Massacre, or you can learn how to cook something from Julia Child.
01:47:47
Speaker
There's so much good stuff out there. And so that's that's what it's all about, you know, picking and choosing. And it makes me think about, you know, our dear departed and how he thought of your reporters. OK, I departed. What he thought of like working this whole Instagram and working with people and how, you know, it seemed like a dead end to him.
01:48:19
Speaker
So and we wouldn't know Keith, we wouldn't know any of these guys. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, life would be so much better, right? Yeah. Think about like, like Jack. I mean, Jack's like a 23 year old dude in Australia. That's right. I don't know any other 23 year old guys in Australia. No. Who do woodworking like without.
01:48:41
Speaker
You know, Instagram and the podcast and stuff like that. How would we meet these like minded people from, you know, that's Perth, Australia is literally the furthest point from where we are. Yes, we we use the Internet to figure that out. So I mean, it's totally cool. Yeah. And you got to seize the opportunity. You live in a time where you can connect with people all over the world that do the same thing as you. If you're not doing that, you're totally fucking up because. Yeah. Yeah. Why not?
01:49:06
Speaker
Yeah. And to get back, I agree. Like the whole teaching aspect of this community is amazing. Like I'm looking right now, you know, one of the guys on the listening is, you know, Steve Pellegrino, he's an awesome knife maker. And I took a class with him up at Jimmy DiResta's, Oh God, over a year ago now. And it's just that kind of selfless, like I'm going to show you, it took me years to do this, but I'm going to show you how to do it. And yeah, it's, it's just that community is awesome.
01:49:36
Speaker
Yeah. And I would just want to add that Manny, he's he's a good friend of ours and he's always got kind words, very generous. But in all honesty, Jeff and I look up to Manny in the same way. Yeah. His abilities, his experiences, who he is as a person. So shout out to you, Manny. Yeah. He's a good dude. Yeah.
01:50:03
Speaker
So I think this is gonna bring us to the close of our regular section of the podcast, no? Yeah, that's that's all she wrote. Yeah, we want to thank everybody. Yeah, thanks. Thanks all you guys. Keith, Matt, Steve, David Murphy, Manny Sirianni, Dustin Fair, Adam Pothast and David Shoemaker. They're five gold tier patrons.
01:50:27
Speaker
You didn't know we do an after show on Patreon, so we'll sit down here for usually about another hour or so. We say a half hour, but usually goes closer to an hour because we're ramblers. Yeah, we'll talk about all kinds of weird stuff, woodworking related or not. We try and try and talk about a little bit of woodworking.
01:50:47
Speaker
So, yeah, if you want to get in with that, you can check out the Patreon on YouTube. You have to see the new set over on the YouTube video. Yeah. And we're on Clubhouse now so you can tune in with these guys here maybe next week. That's right. You're in on Clubhouse. That'd be cool. We'd really love to build that up and and get some question, answer and and just
01:51:12
Speaker
involvement from those of you out there listening on Clubhouse. Yeah. This weekend, like on Saturday, when my son was taking a nap, like I was on Clubhouse for like three hours with Matt and some other guys. Just I mean, we're talking about all kinds of stuff. I met Aaron who works up there with Jimmy, like super smart guy had, I mean, some real good stuff to say. I mean, it's really cool to just, you know, talk with other like minded people. Yeah. Yeah. So that's another cool thing happening. Yeah.
01:51:40
Speaker
Well, appreciate you guys. Love you all. Yes. We'll see you next week. All right. Take care guys. Later guys. Later Keith.
01:52:05
Speaker
Sunday ain't no shame but there's been a chain.