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An Artpop Talk with Olivia Huffstetter
109 Plays3 years ago
In this week’s artpop talk, we sit down with Olivia Huffstetter, a doctoral candidate in art education. We talk about how Olivia is integrating art history and technology in the classroom, and how educators can make use of social media to teach visual culture and social justice. Olivia also talks with us about the Instagram account, Tabloid Art History--showing us that the arts and pop culture can teach us more than we think!
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Transcript
Introduction to Olivia Hufstetter and Technology in Art Education
00:00:01
Speaker
Hello, hello, and welcome to Art Pop Talk. I'm Gianna. And I'm Bianca. In this week's Art Pop Talk, we sit down with Olivia Hufstetter, a doctoral candidate in art education. We talk about how Olivia is integrating art history and technology into the classroom, and how educators can make use of social media to teach visual culture and social justice.
Tabloid Art History and Teaching Visual Culture
00:00:26
Speaker
Olivia also talks with us about the Instagram account Taboid Art History, showing us that the arts and pop culture can teach us more than we think. Let's get started.
00:00:41
Speaker
Well Bianca, my dear, I'm very excited to get in today's interview with Olivia. We are recording this intro today on January 7th, but we recorded this interview with Olivia actually before the holidays. So it's been a hot minute since we've actually sat down and spoke with her, but it was really fun to get to go back and listen to that interview.
00:01:04
Speaker
Yeah, I'm so excited for you guys to hear the interview. And while we don't want to take too much time in the intro today, we want to get right into our session with Olivia. Like Jonah said, we are recording this on January 7th.
00:01:21
Speaker
And you'll hopefully be listening to this sometime on next Tuesday, the following Tuesday. And yesterday, January 6, was a really another just another hard day in our country. And
00:01:43
Speaker
It's been a hard day, a hard time in this country for a lot of people for a very long time. And I don't, I have so many thoughts, but at the same time, it's
00:01:56
Speaker
I don't, you know, it's almost unexpected, like, at this point, but going back to what Gianna said, her and I re listened to Olivia's interview before we started recording this intro for you guys. And it felt so poignant. And like what Olivia will talk to you guys about with art education just really seemed to resonate with me after the events of yesterday. I don't know.
00:02:27
Speaker
if you have any thoughts about that too. Absolutely.
Cultural Awareness and Educational Implications
00:02:30
Speaker
As you guys will hear in the interview and more towards the end when we really start looking and talking about images created by tabloid art history, but those images and those visual comparisons are created by
00:02:48
Speaker
a cultural and political awareness, a pop culture awareness to what is going on to be able to make those images and those comparisons. And as Olivia will talk about, that is what she got her students to do in her PhD program. So
00:03:08
Speaker
I was thinking about yesterday's events and a lot of the conversations that were started yesterday and just thinking about what would happen if these people at these events were people of color.
News as Learning and Analytical Thinking
00:03:24
Speaker
What would happen if these people were individuals who were black?
00:03:29
Speaker
and you can't help but make these comparisons to what we saw during this mob versus what we saw during the Black Lives Matter movement and how we were confronted with law enforcement and police officials. And that idea of just being aware and it's interesting to say, but in a way taking in that information and just watching the news
00:03:55
Speaker
is also a form of informal learning, and that's one of the things Olivia talks about. Although in our interview, we are going to talk about more of the formalities of learning in a classroom and what that is like, but also being aware that we hope to create conversations much like tabloid art history lays out for us.
00:04:19
Speaker
Our goal of the show is to make us think more about art and be aware of that and how it influences everyday life. We've talked about that so much, but the bigger issue is how we can use analytical thinking strategies that can be applicable in everyday life. When we saw the events unfold yesterday,
00:04:44
Speaker
It is quite astonishing that you form these comparisons in your head and then you pop on social media and everybody else is comparing those same things and thinking about the what if of it all. Yeah. You kept hearing this phrase from some elected officials and pundits and news anchors about how
00:05:03
Speaker
words matter and words have mattered this this whole time and for some strange reason as if we haven't been outraged for the past four years but also people have been outraged and you know before this obviously
00:05:21
Speaker
But I was thinking about this idea that, oh, his words matter, his words matter. And clearly we're saying like this very, I don't know, I don't know how to describe it in the moment as we're recording other than strange culmination of that. But
00:05:41
Speaker
as I'm taking in all these images that we're seeing from the news and you're seeing photographers and photojournalists out there, thinking about how images matter and how just these types of images we're taking in can reflect exactly what you mentioned too, Gianna, as well. It's like we're not just thinking about how words and actions matter, but we saw the images compared almost immediately of police on the Capitol,
00:06:09
Speaker
during Black Lives Matter protests and then police at the Capitol yesterday.
Olivia's Journey in Art Education
00:06:14
Speaker
And also, you know, people taking photographs with police officers in the building during a terrorist attack, how people were taking photos and posting them on Instagram, terrorists taking those photos of themselves, raiding the Capitol and then. Right. Writing images that and posting them on social media that say like, well,
00:06:38
Speaker
We never back down. Right. So that's something that after watching that and thinking about that yesterday and listening back to, back through the interview with Olivia today, it just, it almost, I don't know, it feels in some way, a good thing to have
00:06:58
Speaker
this conversation with Olivia this time about education and education of images and intake of images just as we are thinking about the intake of words as well. And you need to question those images and you need to be critical of what information you are taking by the media like those things exist on both sides of the spectrum and like we all need to be critical about that and things like this podcast can help
00:07:27
Speaker
fuel those investigations and make you think in that lens more critically where it's not such a, it's not a thing you're going to have to work so hard for, if that makes sense in the long run. Like my hope is that that becomes.
00:07:42
Speaker
Right, that becomes more natural. Right, because you're doing it anyway. We're doing it anyway, and we're just processing and intaking all of this constant information. And I think that's also, this is going to be a long intro, but also leading back to this idea of our numbness to the insanity, not taking our numbness for granted and finding a way to think about,
00:08:09
Speaker
And just like you said, Gianna, like finding a way to be more cognizant of what we're already intaking, like we're already receiving those messages. So this is a really, really fantastic conversation with my dear friend, Olivia. So I really, I really hope that you guys enjoy it. Yes, absolutely, Bianca. All right. So whew.
00:08:34
Speaker
On that note, I'm going to take a breath and I'm going to read for you Olivia's bio. Olivia Hofstadter graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in History and Art History from Southwestern University in 2016. She graduated with a Master's of Arts in Art History from Oklahoma State University in 2018.
00:08:57
Speaker
Her thesis discusses how European travel literature and other illustrated ethnographic documents from the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries have contributed to the misrepresentation of indigenous Latin American cultures with an emphasis on representations of Aztec culture. Currently, Olivia is ABD in the Arts Administration Education and Policy Doctoral Program at the Ohio State University Program specializing in art education.
00:09:26
Speaker
She is an instructor of record for the visual culture investigating diversity and social justice course. Honestly, I can't wait for you guys to hear about this course because I just want her to be my professor. Olivia's interests make her a wandering academic who is continuously interacting with different areas of focus.
00:09:47
Speaker
She likes the idea of passion and being challenged by a topic, acting as one's inspiration, along with the frame of mind that we can learn more about something specific the more we aspire to learn about everything. As you'll hear in our interview, in her experience, stepping out of your research bubble and trying something new can really allow you to engage with the process in a more impactful way. These words. Amazing.
00:10:17
Speaker
And now here's our art pop talk with Olivia Houghstutter.
00:10:50
Speaker
All right. Hello everyone. Today we are joined by an extra special guest you guys. I am so excited to have my former roommate actually for a summer.
00:11:05
Speaker
in Santa Fe and a very, very good friend and colleague from my graduate years at Oklahoma State. So everyone please welcome Olivia Hufstetter. Thank you so much for being here. How are you? I'm doing really well. I'm really happy to talk to y'all. I was really excited when I saw the showers starting this back
00:11:31
Speaker
the beginning of the year and so I'm really excited to finally be able to sit down with y'all after we've been going back and forth all year and so yeah I'm looking forward to talking. So right now Olivia you are in school working on your PhD. Before we get into more about your work and really why we're so excited to talk to you today can you give us an update on how
00:12:00
Speaker
your semesters and your studies have been during COVID. I want to definitely get into the technological aspect of your research work a little bit later on, but it's been kind of fascinating to see how different people in the art world are working through this in various ways.
00:12:20
Speaker
Yeah, so I've actually been pretty fortunate in that with my own studies, they were relatively unaffected. That's because back in the spring, right, when everything got really crazy in March, I was actually only in one in-person class at the time. Oh, wow. The other credits that I was enrolled in, one was already offered completely online, and then
00:12:51
Speaker
The other one was independent study. And so in terms of my own studies, I haven't had to deal with a whole lot of thinking about new ways of me being a student because now I'm ABD. So that's all I'm doing is writing my dissertation and doing data analysis. And so in contrast to that, however,
00:13:20
Speaker
I had to think about my own teaching and I had to change everything for my class that I teach because it is offered as an in-person class and so I had to go and figure out how to take everything that we would normally do in the very discussion-based class and very activity in the class and make that virtual just like a lot of people did.
00:13:43
Speaker
But everything went really well for the most part. We were able to adapt. The students did, you know, we got through it. The biggest change was just with how they had to do their final assignment. But rather than being a group project, I had them just do it individually to limit the stress, you know, trying to do a group project virtually. But then actually it's interesting
00:14:09
Speaker
thinking about everything and trying to find the positives is that one positive of this year, if you will, is that over the summers, when I was doing my candidacy exams, so every program, you know, they have a different way of doing candidacy exam portions of a program, but for us, it's just, it's writing for essays regarding questions that your committee has come up with that relates to your proposal. And
00:14:39
Speaker
So the positive was that because I wasn't able to go anywhere, it got me to actually sit down and write. And I've never been more consistently productive in my life. Nothing like a quarantine to make you get your work done, not procrastinate as much. Like for sure, like had those, you know, two or three day stretches here and there when I was a little uninspired and had trouble working. But for the most part, that was actually like one good thing that came out of
00:15:09
Speaker
having to stay home but then you know lastly with the current situation for the semester again because I'm ABD I didn't have too much you know affecting me in terms of my research because of how it's designed you know of course there's so many graduate students and other researchers who their work was impacted really heavily but luckily
00:15:36
Speaker
because of the way I did data collection and the way that I had designed my research, kind of got away from that chaos of having to rethink everything. But yeah, so same thing, you know, students, they still did really well and we adapted to everything. So yeah, that's where we are.
00:15:53
Speaker
Oh my gosh, that's awesome. I never took, well, I only took one online class when I was in school and it was in undergrad. And I just, I am in awe of all the teachers and faculty teaching online. I mean,
00:16:14
Speaker
You only took one, Bianca? I only took one online class. Man. I took several. I took a really heavy writing class online and that's part of the reason why I had to get reading glasses because
00:16:29
Speaker
I like hit that point in college where I was staring at my computer like way too much and it started like actually screwing with me, but I like in-person classes myself, but I'm so glad to hear that all in all though, you've been able to like power through and like your students have been okay and you've been okay. So that's really great to hear.
00:16:49
Speaker
So I wanted to talk a little bit about your process of figuring out where you wanted to go with your career and how you went from art history to pursuing a PhD in art education. You talk a little bit about this in the research and the work that you've you've sent us already
00:17:11
Speaker
um and I think I was in a similar situation when I went to get my master's where I went straight from undergrad to graduate school so I think that this is something you know a lot of people who studied arts and liberal arts in college kind of struggle with figuring out that next path especially when something like arts and liberal arts just lends itself so well I think to
00:17:39
Speaker
to being interested in a lot of different things. So can you talk about how that decision process worked for you? Yeah, so there's a very extensive backstory to all of this that I will do my best to say very concisely.
Integration of Art History and Education
00:17:58
Speaker
Because I'm one of those people who like starts at point A that then goes to A and a half and like I love it.
00:18:07
Speaker
So anyways, the long story short is that I actually started college as an environmental studies major. Did I know this? Probably. I talk about it all the time. Oh my gosh, I don't remember that. But yeah, so when everything like really got into me thinking about what I wanted to do with the career and where I wanted to go to school and what I wanted to study, I actually
00:18:36
Speaker
originally originally wanted to be a history major not art history history and that's because it was always my favorite subject in school um you know you know a lot of people in k through 12 they think history's boring but i didn't i really liked it um and so first i wanted to be a teacher then i was like no i don't want to be a teacher i'm going to work in a museum because it's still educational aspect but i get to like work with things okay you know and so that's what i wanted to do for a little
00:19:06
Speaker
really long time, but then when I was a junior in high school and I was really getting into the college search, I had that little freak out moment of, Oh, I'm never going to find a job with a humanities degree. Like, what am I doing? Can't do that. Yeah. So that, um, I got more opportunities for a job. And so that's when I started looking into other things.
00:19:34
Speaker
And I found a school that had an environmental studies program. It didn't actually end up going there, but it's what inspired me.
00:19:40
Speaker
And so I only started basing my college search off of schools that had environmental studies or environmental science. And that's how I found my undergraduate university. I did not even know it existed until I randomly found it on Google one time. But it was perfect. It ended up being that roundabout way of finding that perfect university for me.
00:20:04
Speaker
But anyways, when I got there, I was enrolled in the intro course that everyone had to take for the environmental studies major that first semester. But I remember this day very, very vividly. I was sitting on my bed in my dorm doing work for that environmental studies class and just audibly saying, what am I doing? Because I realized that it wasn't because I couldn't do it or I thought it was too hard as I realized I did not enjoy it.
00:20:32
Speaker
And so I immediately marched myself down to the registrar's office and said, I'm declaring history in my major. But flash forward to the end of the semester when we are registering for the spring, I did not get to register until the very last day at the very last time slot. So needless to say, everything was full because I went to a very small school, 1,500 students total, you know,
00:20:59
Speaker
And so I only got into one class that I really wanted to take. The other three, I just had to figure out what I could get credits for that would be meaningful for my degree and get my gen eds. And that is how I ended up in an art history class. And so it was an East Asian art and architecture class. And I was not looking forward to it at all because I had always been told that art history was hard and that I wouldn't like it.
00:21:29
Speaker
And, um, and that was told to me by someone who I trust a lot and I was like, Oh, well, if that's your judgment, well, then I agree with you. Sure. Um, but come to find out I loved it. And that's when I really discovered that I was a visual learner. Um, and you know, I already loved history and so adding that visual component just made it that much more enjoyable. Um, and so,
00:21:55
Speaker
realized like oh if I want to work in a museum I can just add this as a second major and then I have two trajectories that I can take and so I declared that as a second major and ended up liking my art history classes even more and so when I was a junior that's when I officially decided to apply for a master's program because I realized it's like oh if I'm gonna work in a museum I probably when I have a master's it's probably gonna
00:22:22
Speaker
make my options a little better than finding a job. So I started doing lots of research for schools, and that's how I found our program at Oklahoma State. And it just so happens that one of my professors at Southwestern knew Christina. And so that's how I made the big connection. And I knew I wanted to do Latin American art, so it was perfect. But then when we get to
00:22:49
Speaker
Oklahoma State and I'm in my first year of the program second semester when I was in Louisa's Art Since 1960 class. I was also taking a class for an elective in the education department that was on gender and curriculum and it was just the best class. It was so fun. I loved everything about it. Professor content, everything. And
00:23:19
Speaker
Since I was a graduate student there, like our assignments for Dr. Syden's class was like way different than what the undergrads did. We just did a lot of writing. We didn't take quizzes or anything. And the final paper that I wrote actually combined the work that I was doing in that education class with what we were learning in arts in 1960. So that was the first time that I really merged these ideas of art history specifically and education. And it really is what got me
00:23:48
Speaker
to remember and get reacquainted with that passion of her teaching that I had. And so I still wasn't set on it because I was like, I'm going to be in school for six years. I'm not going anymore. I had already said I wasn't going to do master's. Like, no, like no more. But when we were in Santa Fe, actually,
00:24:12
Speaker
That summer, I spent just about every free moment I could possibly spend looking at art education programs because something in me just kept leaning me towards it. I still didn't know for sure if I would do it or not, but I went ahead and decided to apply because I found three schools that I ended up applying to. Ohio State was my first choice, but I applied and basically it was like, well,
00:24:43
Speaker
We'll see if I get accepted and then we'll see if I get funding, because that was a pretty big if and or yes or no was if I was going to get funding. But it turns out I got accepted and I did get funding. And so that is what got me from going from art history to art education was being able just to merge these two disciplines in this really random, creative way.
00:25:12
Speaker
And so, you know, we're thinking about like that struggle of a lot of like you're asking, you know, college students in humanities or liberal arts fields and like, how do you make your choice.
00:25:25
Speaker
Well, first of all, you know, it's like sometimes you've got to take a chance step out of your comfort zone, you need to do something you say you're not going to do. But then also, you know, just finding something you're passionate about, like that's really important. And if something really makes a connection with you. And, you know, sometimes you just you just got to go for it and see where it takes you because, you know, that's something that's been really important for me, not only as a student, but also with my research is just
00:25:52
Speaker
how important personal experience is getting you to a specific career or program or whatever it is because had those really random things not happened, I wouldn't be here. So yeah, that's my really long-winded way of saying, finding something you're passionate about, making connections that are interesting to you and just going for it.
00:26:15
Speaker
Oh, yeah. Olivia, I'm so glad
Social Media in Art Education
00:26:18
Speaker
you're here. And I mean, Bianca and I have talked about that so much how we have felt pulled in so many different directions and finding your right path. But I love that you talked about your Enviro class and already forming those other intersections of how you can create and implement just personal interests into this field. And I think that's something really important for our listeners to understand who also will.
00:26:44
Speaker
Like they want to dip their toe in the art world, but they do have these other interests. And as we know, that's the beautiful thing about this field is that we have the ability to do that. But I really want to talk about your research and get into it. So can you give all of our listeners an overview of your work? What is it about? And why should our listeners care about it? Because it matters so, so much.
00:27:10
Speaker
Yeah, so in a nutshell, my research is looking at the ways that technology, specifically social media, can be used as a teaching tool in university level art education courses. And then more specifically, which I know we'll talk about later, but going even further with that is like how this one specific Instagram account
00:27:35
Speaker
I'll tablet art history can be used as the focus of that curriculum that one creates. And then the third component is, you know, when
00:27:45
Speaker
the researchers slash educator can actually take that experience of developing these new curriculums and learning more about themselves and why they are the way they are as an educator. Like I said, it's like so many of my experiences have gotten me here in terms of education. And so it's just like the way you see all of that playing out when you're like switching roles from student to educator. Um, and, um,
00:28:14
Speaker
So that's the main gist of my research is thinking about the ways social media, Instagram specifically, can be used to teach students and get them thinking in terms of, you know, visual culture, study and analysis.
00:28:31
Speaker
Yeah oh so fantastic obviously with us using so much technology in the pod but also in the way that we've been doing our interviews especially during this time I'm just so happy that you know this is the perfect time to like talk about this work so um I read your paper thank you so much for sending that to us but
00:28:52
Speaker
You say, quote, investigates how art focuses Instagram platforms, as you said, can be incorporated into the curriculum of these courses in order to benefit student engagement with the process of visual culture analysis and related research techniques and practices as a means to discuss issues related to the topics of diversity and social justice, which we are extremely interested in and hopefully talk about
00:29:20
Speaker
diversity and social justice topics here on the podcast. So how do you imagine the curriculum to be formed when there are so many art Instagram accounts that at times it feels really overwhelming? And we know you talk about one in particular, but I'm so curious about how you even got to that point.
00:29:40
Speaker
Yeah, so going back just a little bit to give a little bit more background. So specifically the class that I teach is called Visual Culture Investigating Diversity and Social Justice. What class can I just say like what freaking class to take on social justice? So obviously it's pretty much exactly as it sounds like using visual culture to start conversations about different
00:30:07
Speaker
areas and discussion related to social justice and diversity. And so what we do with it is that, you know,
00:30:18
Speaker
originally there was this one curriculum that would follow because since it is a gen ed course um I think there are like six five or six different sections offered and so like we're all all the instructors you know we're supposed to you know we all have the same textbook we're all supposed to follow the same you know assignment curriculum and everything but we do have a little bit of freedom in terms of how we present the material
00:30:42
Speaker
like we find a YouTube video that we like or something, we can bring that in. But that was one of the reasons why I chose this Instagram account specifically is one, because of the comparative component, right? Taking this, you know, perspective of how can we take something that is, you know, I don't want to say quintessential, but like this very stereotypical idea of what it means to study arts, right? Sculpture, painting, you know, architecture,
00:31:13
Speaker
and pairing it with something, you know, in terms of pop culture and really is a way to get students to think about, okay, well, we are interacting with different forms of visual culture every single day, and it's like you don't have to be in an art history classroom to be able to study and analyze art. And then on top of that comparative component is with tablet art history, and one of my arguments, you know, I think it's pretty,
00:31:43
Speaker
clear but you know anyone could make their own argument that but I see it as a feminist platform like you know they're bringing in so many discussions of representation and under representation in Hollywood um you know for a number of different groups of people you know women people of color and so with all of that combined it just that particular
00:32:06
Speaker
Instagram accounts fit so well with the curriculum. Not only are we asking students to think about how they engage with and talk about and analyze art, but how can we also really get them to think about the ways we can use it to talk about diversity and social justice. And it's just this really interesting way to think about engagement in a creative way.
00:32:33
Speaker
Yeah. In a similar dilemma to what we see in museums on top of that, in dealing with Instagram's accounts in particular,
00:32:43
Speaker
each one and each feed is so catered and curated to that specific person. So how do we know or how have you kind of worked? What is worth looking at on Instagram or is worth even a question to have when looking at social media? Because it can be very subjective and I think that's also okay and that's probably also part of the point. Yeah, so my answer to is there worse?
00:33:11
Speaker
Yes, to both perspectives and let me elaborate. So I think this is a really great question that you'll ask because it actually fits so well with one of the lessons that we do in my class.
00:33:26
Speaker
And specifically in how it relates to this really awesome TED Talk that you should check out if you have not seen it already. And it's called Art in the Age of Instagram. And so it's a talk given by Jaja Fay, who is now an independent art consultant who helps actually develop ways for artists to get a broader audience, working with museums to get
00:33:56
Speaker
work out there digitally, et cetera. But she was previously the director of digital at the Jewish Museum. And then before that was the associate director of digital marketing at the Guggenheim. And so in this talk, one of the main focuses of the talk is that she is describing this James Turrell exhibition that was put on at the Guggenheim years back.
00:34:24
Speaker
And she's talking about how, you know, because it's an installation, exhibition, Terrell did not want anybody to have phones or take pictures or post in any way, shape, or form the installation on social media, the internet, anything, right? He wanted people to go in and experience it, you know, just in the moment. But of course, people being people, they took pictures and they posted them on Instagram. And what's so interesting about it is
00:34:54
Speaker
Um, like one of the points that she talks about with that is that, you know, with the development of the internet and technology, social media, you know, we have this fear of reproduction and like, what does it mean? And, you know, in terms of not only that, but then also can we still experience things the same way online as we do in person? And what she finally gets at in the end is that, um,
00:35:22
Speaker
Yes, it is important because what she tells us is how because so many people saw all these posts online, it made them want to go see it in person. You know, so it actually heightens the visitors to this exhibition. And so when we're talking about worse, what is worth looking for on Instagram? Well, not only does this platform give artists an opportunity to get their work out there,
00:35:52
Speaker
and then give the opportunity for their viewers, the audience that may come across it.
00:35:59
Speaker
to get them introduced to it, but it can then inspire someone else to go to, you know, a gallery, the exhibition, the museum, wherever it may be. So not only do they have this initial introduction to it, but it then translates to that in-person experience. And, you know, you can kind of continue that like, oh, I saw it here. Maybe someone else will also see it if I post, you know, and that'll get them interested.
00:36:28
Speaker
then you have that whole circle of contributing to an arts-based continuation and supporting artists. And so, yes, there is worth in both perspectives. Yeah. That's so interesting. I also think social media has played a factor in museum intimidation, too.
00:36:50
Speaker
I don't know whether that's for the good or for the bad, why people are kind of coming to museums maybe to build up their own personal platform or like take a trendy photo. You know, I don't think it is as surface level as we think, because in a while, like that builds up and that becomes a normal, entering museum spaces becomes a normal. Whatever that reason is for, you're in the space and you're going to get something out of that too. So I think there's also that side to it as well.
00:37:20
Speaker
Yeah, this is really interesting because I feel like whenever I am in an artistic environment, I have this kind of like desire to share that, right? And I think that it's somewhat natural for a lot of us now to want to take a photo of something that we are enjoying. But at the same time, I feel like
00:37:47
Speaker
personally, I have to consciously think about that balance. So I have to think about like, I want to capture this moment. And I think it's, it's worth capturing and worth sharing. But at the same time, I want to make sure that I'm also taking that taking in the physicality of the space and actually learning and having the opportunity to see something in person.
00:38:15
Speaker
and really learn from that and then think about like being in this space with people. And I think that's also something, you know, I'm sure there's going to be a ton of TED talks and art historians talking about art history in the age of COVID, but how physicality in art is going to matter and where that balance is from digital to in-person.
00:38:45
Speaker
Yeah, for sure. And I mean, also, you do have to think about the artist. If the artist does say, ask you, hey, I really don't want people taking pictures, well, then you should respect that, of course. But when we're really just thinking about
00:39:03
Speaker
you know, that idea of is there a separation between experience? Of course, there's gonna be a different experience of something virtual versus being there in person, but just this idea, like when you're specifically asking about words, I just, you know, it's so beneficial to like getting someone inspired to go there and making that connection that I think is really important.
00:39:33
Speaker
Yeah, and Jenna, I love what you said too about accessibility and breaking down that barrier of the scary art museum where you don't feel welcome, you don't see yourself represented, you don't see people who look and think like you, and it's scary. And so I love that that's also included in this conversation is just making museums accessible from person to person, which is really cool.
Inclusive Participation and Diverse Perspectives
00:40:02
Speaker
So in your writing, you talk about, quote, the fear of speaking up in class because of repercussions from a professor. And this is something that John and I have talked about on the podcast. Olivia, I'm sure it's something that we talked about when we were in school. And it's something that Yautica Starfield kind of brought up in his interview on the podcast, this idea of
00:40:30
Speaker
the starving artist as a preferred aesthetic and what is that kind of preferred way to go about studying your field? So can you talk about this a little bit more and maybe share some of that experience of that fear that I think many of us have experienced in the educational environment? Yes, so
00:40:55
Speaker
background just slightly is that I've always been a very shy, quiet student. Even before college, I was never one of the students who always just immediately raised my hand. I was like, please don't call me, please don't call me. I was that type of student. And it's not because I didn't want to say anything or that I didn't know what was going on. It's just like,
00:41:18
Speaker
I didn't want to be told that I was wrong and I didn't want to like appear like I didn't know what I was talking about in front of other people. And so that was really heightened though when I did get to college because the very first class that I took, it was really small. There were only 12 people in it. And just the way our curriculum was set up was
00:41:43
Speaker
First years, they took a class the week, they started taking a class the week before everyone else did, just to get us used to school, you know. And for whatever reason,
00:42:01
Speaker
that professor decided that me and this one other student, they were just gonna pick on the entire semester. And, you know, like always told us that we were wrong. Always made like really denied comments on our papers and just like made us feel awful. And it just like literally, it's just like they just randomly chose us because like my roommate who was also in that class, I remember like,
00:42:31
Speaker
It's just like, I don't understand why she likes you so much, but not us. And like, I don't see how her works all that different and blah, blah, blah. But anyways, so that like kind of really solidified me like knowledge talking class. And that's from the perspective of me as the student experiencing it. But then two years later, when I was a junior, I was taking this other class. And it was a history class. So there were like all levels of
00:43:01
Speaker
class and they're like freshmen through seniors. So I was a junior, but there was a first year in there and they actually talked a lot. They always volunteered, excuse me, volunteered to, you know, respond and like talk about anything that we were reading or anything like that. But there was this one day in like mid semester and we were reading this book
00:43:30
Speaker
So naturally part of class was talking about this book. And so our professor asked us a question and this student offered to respond to whatever the question was. And she wasn't really answering the question that was asked, but what she was saying was not wrong in any ways. She was just talking about another aspect of this book that we were reading.
00:43:59
Speaker
But because it is not what the professor was expecting to hear, the immediate rebuttal and the only thing that he said was, what? No. And I kid you not, no exaggeration, that student never came back to class. And I can guarantee you it is because they were so upset and like embarrassed because that had happened.
00:44:27
Speaker
And I just remember seeing that happen and knowing how I would have reacted if it had been me. I probably wouldn't have gotten out of the class, but I probably quite literally would have had PTSD from it. Because I was already so anxious in that situation to begin with. And so that just kind of became the norm for me. I'm still that way. I really don't like talking.
00:44:57
Speaker
when I'm in the position of a student. And so because of that, when I started being the instructor, like the actual instructor record, not just, you know, a TA, you know, behind the scenes type situation, when I was the instructor and I was the one leading these classes, he's like, I have no problem at all getting up in front of people to talk.
00:45:24
Speaker
you know, and give presentations. But if I'm sitting at a desk and you call on me, like, I've actually started crying before because it made me so upset, you know? So because I've had those experiences, when I'm the educator, I will never call on a student. You know, like, I will never be like, hey, Sarah, like, what do you think about blah, blah, blah? You know, if I am asking just a general question to the class about whatever it is that we're talking about,
00:45:52
Speaker
You know, I will wait, you know, you know, count to 30 or something and usually somebody will respond. But, you know, if it ever happens that somebody doesn't, well, then, you know,
00:46:04
Speaker
I'll give them little hints like, hey, maybe you could think about this, and then that'll spark something. Or the other way we go about it is, so this class really is designed to be a very interactive, small group activity, a small group discussion type of class. Obviously, we've had to figure out different ways of doing that this semester.
00:46:30
Speaker
We made it work. And so that's something that's really important when we're talking about, you know, like being in an educational environment and offering your voice is that, you know, just making sure that you have more than one way for participation to take place, you know, because it's like that happened with me when I was an undergrad is like participation was such a high percentage of our grade, but
00:47:00
Speaker
professors pretty much for the most part, like their idea of participation is how much do I hear your voice in class? And so I got super low grades, you know, in my participation. And so even though I got really great grades on my actual assignments, you know, I wouldn't get B's in my classes because I quote unquote didn't talk enough. And just having those experiences, you know, it's like,
00:47:27
Speaker
really gets you to think about and put yourself in the shoes of a student and understand that it's like just because someone isn't saying something doesn't mean they're not paying attention or that they don't know what's going on or that they didn't do their painting. Sure of course that happens every now and we've all been there we've all been tired and dozed off but um sure you know but it's like
00:47:49
Speaker
If you're reading their work and their work is doing what is asked and you can clearly see that they're engaged and you can see that, you know, if you do ask them to work in a small group, you can see them talking with their peers. Like, why would you not see that as participation? And so
00:48:10
Speaker
Again, that's just like a really big component of my research is also thinking about how your own experiences as a student get you to be the type of educator that you are and how you weave that into your teaching. Yeah, I love this. I think that
00:48:28
Speaker
I think everyone has had an experience like that. And Olivia, I think I'm like you a little bit. In undergrad, I was never the student who spoke up unless I was absolutely sure of myself. If I was really sure that was the right answer, I was okay. And I feel okay talking in class. I'm not afraid to talk in front of people, but it was the fear
00:48:53
Speaker
of repercussions from an instructor. And at Oklahoma State, you know, I rarely had an instructor that I didn't like. And I think when I started the graduate program, I was terrified, terrified that I wasn't at the right level, that I wasn't going to be able to do it. And then when there were people in our program who
00:49:21
Speaker
were able to form thoughts so eloquently and so quickly. And I can't do that. I need to sit and kind of think about the question and think about my words coming up because I'm sure in our seminar classes, I just would word vomit all over everyone's session.
00:49:44
Speaker
And so I think that everybody has that difficulty and I remember especially being so frustrated with one class in particular where
00:49:55
Speaker
every week we had to turn in a kind of written response to our readings for the week and we would turn in our responses the day of class and then two days later once we had finished our discussion of the readings we had to write basically an entirely new
00:50:18
Speaker
assessment of the readings. And for me, it was frustrating because it was an assessment based on what the professor had told you, not what you took away from the readings in that first assessment, like what you were really thinking about, but to get a better grade, you had to write down what someone else wanted you to hear from that.
00:50:42
Speaker
And so I think this is so interesting. And when thinking about art, especially in every single lesson, you know, you're always talking about someone is going to see something different than you are. And that's just, that's just how the world works and that's why it's great. So.
00:51:01
Speaker
I'm really excited to see how educators too are reacting to your curriculum and your work and how all of those responses will fit together. Yeah, so moving right along, Olivia.
00:51:18
Speaker
You were already talking about kind of restructuring that traditional model, but you talk about that classroom environment in your work and you say that you are not able to view art history as an ever evolving field and therefore a field where
00:51:34
Speaker
critiques and questioning should be encouraged. This may seem like a surprise to a lot of people because the visual arts seem so fluid to us. So can you explain this idea a little bit further for people who may haven't studied the arts and where this problem really came from in the classroom?
00:51:57
Speaker
Yeah, so what I am saying with this in terms of my perspective, right, it's my opinion, is that, so when I was in my art history classes, you know, it's like, when you wrote an art history paper, you wrote an art history paper, you know, like, I don't know how else to explain it, but it's just like, you know, you,
00:52:19
Speaker
You picked a work of art or an artist and you wrote about it. You did visual analysis, you gave some historical background, and then you made an argument. And you did research that helped you support that argument. But then when I got to my current program, I was introduced to all of these new research methodologies that I had never heard of before.
00:52:50
Speaker
You know, it's like when you're doing art historical research, you're doing art historical research, but in education and then the social sciences,
00:53:02
Speaker
There are just so many other methods that I was introduced to that I was just like, what? How is that accepted as research? And so my two examples that I'll give, because they were the most impactful for me as a student and also getting me interested in this particular research focus,
00:53:24
Speaker
are autoethnography and arts-based research. And so, autoethnography, pretty much what it sounds like, so rather than doing an ethnography of, you know, a specific group of people, you are doing research about yourself in relation to this experience. And then arts-based research is
00:53:48
Speaker
really really cool it's really interesting and it's this idea of where it's like not only are you doing research with you know like other sources of you know scholarship but you are also actually creating art as you're doing that research so that experience of making the art also acts as a source and it was just so interesting yeah um and so um
00:54:15
Speaker
Because I had just been so accustomed to this very straightforward idea of what studying art and writing about art was, it's really what got me thinking about, you know, the different ways that we could get people excited about art and working with it and that, you know, you don't have to be studying.
00:54:39
Speaker
sculpture or architecture to be studying arts like you can like of course we have like film studies and so people are working with TV and television and TV and movies but um you know we don't really think about using TV in art history very often and it's just not from my experience and um I think I remember one person my
00:55:03
Speaker
junior year actually wrote something about Game of Thrones, but that was like the only time I'd ever heard of anybody using, um, you know, TV or film in their work, you know, not that I hadn't seen it. And it had to be Game of Thrones. Well, yeah, but that was like 2014, so it was like the height of it. Yeah. And, but anyways, um,
00:55:27
Speaker
So with that, when I was introduced to these new research methodologies and finally being able to see that you can do research with art and a visual component in just these really creative ways, that's what really got me thinking about how we can get students to interact with this curriculum and thinking about getting away from this
00:55:55
Speaker
you know, again, quote unquote, traditional idea of what it means to study art and, you know, finding ways to apply that to every single visual component that we work with and interact with in our everyday lives. I love that. I love that you were also like the case study for your own like research, which is just so cool. I also just feel so lucky that you're here just for my own personal benefit.
00:56:22
Speaker
And as you might know, I haven't gone on to do a master's program because I wasn't certain what path I wanted to follow just being tied to studio art, art history, art education, museum studies. So it was like, which one, which one? But I love that you have found a way to incorporate it all. You can have it all, folks.
00:56:52
Speaker
You write about learning from one another in the classroom, and that's something we've kind of been talking about throughout our chat today, so that professors and educators are learning from their students. And I think right now, there is socially a big divide, but since leaving school and kind of working throughout some internships and now entering my career,
00:57:22
Speaker
I think there's also a lot of interest in these kind of generational evaluations. So this is something that kind of gets on my nerves a little bit, this idea that boomers and Gen Zers, they just can't get along. They have totally different learning and working styles. It's so hard to communicate with one another. So how do you
00:57:46
Speaker
Imagine letting students teach the teachers, and how can that socially impact us beyond just thinking about the arts? Yeah, so we're thinking about this idea, thinking specifically in the context of college courses, because that's where my research is focused. But when we're talking about my
00:58:13
Speaker
my course in particular, it's actually designed in this approach. It's called Community of Inquiry. So it's actually intended from the get-go for everyone to have this opportunity to learn from each other. Because as part of this component of identity that's really important to the course is that everyone's experienced life in different ways. And everyone has something to offer.
00:58:40
Speaker
to the class itself but also to anyone else you know out in everyday life that can help you like learn about something new or interact with something in a way that you didn't realize beforehand and so
00:58:55
Speaker
When we're talking about like being in a classroom and having a very specific like curriculum or pedagogical approach. So something that's, you know, very important to me is, you know, ideas of feminist theory and feminist pedagogy, specifically intersectional feminism, right, making sure that you're doing everything you can to have an inclusive classroom and you're
00:59:16
Speaker
doing everything you can to think about every perspective and how can I make this classroom comfortable for all of my students, whatever their background may be, whatever their experiences may be. And so, you know, we're talking about education, you know, once again, like you're thinking about
00:59:34
Speaker
both a college classroom core, K through 12 classroom. We have this idea in our society, this very stereotypical image of formal or industrial model schooling. Everyone goes to class, they sit at a desk, you listen to the teacher, and you write notes and you take tests, and that's how you're supposed to learn. Which, sure, that's how you have to go about teaching and learning in some fields.
01:00:02
Speaker
But that is not the case for every single field, especially humanities and fine arts. Part of the learning process is talking through things or having a project that you're able to apply a critical thinking and creative thinking process to. And so if we're thinking about how we're developing a curriculum,
01:00:26
Speaker
And all of the different ways that we can incorporate new tools into our teaching. Well, it's like you know technology is always being developed like new things are being presented to us every single day. And a lot of those are specifically directed towards the use of
01:00:45
Speaker
you know, in an educational setting. But even if they're not, like people find ways to use them, right? Like social media, for example, that was not designed for, you know, using in a classroom, but so many people have found ways to do that. And so we're thinking about like the separation between like different generations. Like, of course, that is one of like the biggest, you know, points of conversation is like, Oh, like the older generation, like that's how they understand school is,
01:01:13
Speaker
you sit and listen while I talk, right? But, you know, when we really think about it, it's like the further we get, it's like Gen Z is becoming the majority of the educator, right? We're, you know, slowly seeing them phase into being the largest population that fills that position, right? And so they have grown up with these
01:01:43
Speaker
really, you know, significant developments with technology and they're finding these ways to use them. And so, like, of course, you know, like we're talking about, like, you can't just have someone sitting in a chemistry lab and say, Hey, do whatever you want. It's always dangerous. You know, you know, so like, that would be a situation where you have to just, you know, listen to the person telling you what to do so that you can learn
01:02:11
Speaker
by that process following along with their instructions. But if we're thinking about, you know, humanities or fine arts in any classroom where you really do have more freedom to present to your students this idea of
01:02:29
Speaker
informal learning right so the idea that you are learning with everything that you do you don't have to be in a classroom to be learning or you don't have to be an apprentice or be working in an internship to be learning you know if you're being very aware of the ways that you're interacting with everything that you do if your everyday life you're learning from that and i think that's you know one of these
01:02:57
Speaker
really significant things like when we're talking about you know the current times especially um and like we can't be in the classroom a lot of the times and you know just having to be really creative and think about how we can get students you know to rethink their interactions with you know whatever it may be that they come into contact with and you know so in my case you know rethinking what it means to interact with
01:03:23
Speaker
social media and not seeing it just as something that you post pictures and videos on but something that you can actually use to learn about art and learn about analysis of that art and then also, you know, how do you use this platform to talk about issues of social justice, you know, really important topics that
01:03:46
Speaker
everything that's going on. And we see
Teaching Visual Analysis with Pop Culture
01:03:50
Speaker
a lot of that, right? So many Instagram accounts are actually dedicated to giving resources to people. You can donate here. Here's this book you can read. Here's this artist you can support. Here's this small business that you can support. And it's just like really thinking about that
01:04:09
Speaker
merging or like reconfigurations of formal versus informal learning is what we should like, one of the ways we should really be thinking about education in terms of, you know, teacher versus students, you know, it's like, everyone is always learning from everyone. And if you are in the position of the educator, like, whether like, I should sit it that way, like,
01:04:38
Speaker
Like if you are in the position of the educator, you are always learning from something from your students. Like you can't, I can't say how many times, you know, we've been talking about something and I'll have a student say, oh, well I did this, this, and this, or I see this, this, and this, and I'm like, wow, I would never even have thought about it that way. You know, and so it's like really showing how you are encouraging your students to also provide their experience and just like how important that really is.
01:05:06
Speaker
That's awesome. So yeah, Olivia, going back to social media and the merging of kind of high formals of learning and also everyday investigations, let's go back. Let's talk about tabloid art history run by three current and former art students based in the UK. Tabloid art history places images of pop culture next to their precious analogues in art history.
01:05:33
Speaker
More poetically, their Instagram bio states, for every picture of Lindsay Lohan falling, there is a Bernini sculpture begging to be referenced. Although this account is of course quite humorous and plays into museum or art main culture,
01:05:51
Speaker
that has become increasingly popular in recent years, how were you able to first see the complexities of these visual comparisons and what compelled you to think about bringing new forms of visual culture into the classroom? Yeah, so I was actually introduced to topological history by Bianca.
01:06:11
Speaker
Um, if it wasn't for her, I probably would have never even knew that it existed. Um, I remember very specifically the day she talked to our ornament class about it. What was it? What were we talking about? Well, it was right before class started and we were just all sitting in there getting ready. And you just said, Hey guys, have y'all heard of this account called tabloid art history? And you were,
01:06:40
Speaker
telling us about this one post that was comparing Beyonce's video at the Louvre to the painting of Josephine and Napoleon. Oh my God. And so then, so you read the quote, like the caption that they had, and then you showed us the post. And so I remember being like, wow, that's really cool, but I didn't really think too much about it. I did follow the account and so I saw their post.
01:07:11
Speaker
But it wasn't anything more than just a very cool, unique account for me to see. So when I got into my program now, the very first semester, I took this class called Reimagining Research Writing, which is also one of the places where I first learned about autoethnography and
01:07:37
Speaker
And so the point of the class or one of the main points of the class was actually getting us to think about what we wanted to do for either a thesis or dissertation research. And like originally when I came into the program, I thought that I wanted to study, I was really interested in how art history is taught. So I still had that like kind of frame of mind, but what I thought I was gonna do was like go in and like,
01:08:06
Speaker
observe different, specifically introductory survey art history courses at different universities and different courses with different instructors within the same university. Because I just wanted to see how different people approached teaching this very, you know, kind of always taught the same way type of class. But it was in this re-imagining research writing class that I really started thinking about tablet or history because
01:08:35
Speaker
um with it being a social media account I was really thinking about that idea of interaction and experience and so initially my idea was to like do this really cool kind of abstract kind of out there dissertation about like what it is to like be having the experience of learning about arts via like the touch of a finger you know and um
01:09:01
Speaker
So that's what I was thinking about first, but then when I got into my second semester and I really had to start thinking about, okay, what am I gonna do with my research? So I was teaching the same class, the visual culture investigating diversity and social justice. And so because of the experiences that I had as an undergraduate in my master's program, being really traditional, part of that traditional perspective was that,
01:09:31
Speaker
computers were completely discouraged in the classroom. Like you were supposed to take notes on pen and paper, you know. And so I taught my class that the first two semesters. I was like, I don't want you to have computers unless I specifically ask you to get them out for an activity or something where I need you to look things up. But it was always pretty clear how that caused like
01:10:00
Speaker
like attention and kind of an anxiety in the classroom. And so I had to do this other assignment where I was in a research methods class and so we had to go, you know, take field notes just to get the experience. But I was actually observing this other art education course where it's actually designed that they're supposed to be like working with technology like the entire time. And it just amazed me how much
01:10:29
Speaker
Like how focus all the students were like they were using like every second like actually work on their assignments. And so it really got me thinking, What would happen if I actually encourage technology in the class versus, you know, discouraging and and
01:10:48
Speaker
So with that, the class, even though it's an art education class, it's also offered as a second-level writing credit. So students do a lot of writing, and so they write four papers, but then they also do what are called, they're called journal assignments, but it's just like that idea that, you know, doing a little bit of writing in any capacity every day really helps, you know, improve someone's writing, and so.
01:11:16
Speaker
I was thinking about all of these things together and that's when I got the idea was like, oh, you know what? How can I incorporate tablet art history into this? And specifically thinking about, oh, this would be a really cool, like additional component to these journal assignments, because not only would they be writing, but they would also be doing visual analysis and kind of doing like research, you know, in a way. And so I got this idea.
01:11:43
Speaker
And I told my advisor about it, and she said, yeah, I think that sounds really cool. So then I went and talked to my supervisor for the course, and I told Terry, hey, I have this idea that I want to do for my research, but it would mean me altering your curriculum a little bit. Just a little bit, everything's still the same. I just want to add to it. And so that summer, which is spring of, excuse me, summer of 2019,
01:12:11
Speaker
I did an independent study with my advisor where that's what I did that those six weeks was reconfiguring all of the assignments and the presentations to incorporate tabloid art history. And then I sent them to my supervisor for final approval and she was like, yeah, I think this looks good. Go ahead and go through with it. And so what we do now is
01:12:34
Speaker
rather than just having a prompt that they write about with their journals, is, so we start off just thinking about visual analysis. And so they go and they find a post that's on tablet art history, and they just have to analyze it. And so, for example, one of them is trying to post and analyze it through feminist theory. And so they can take that however they want,
01:12:58
Speaker
And the process, they show their process, like the, why did you choose this? How do you see it representing feminist theory? You know, how would you incorporate this into an exhibition? And then as we get further, they actually start making their own tabular history inspired comparisons. I love it. And so, for example, the first one is really broad, and it's just
01:13:25
Speaker
find two works of visual culture and talk about some aspect of social justice, you know, so they can think about anything that's important to them. And so, for example, I've had people, I've had students, I had someone compare the Powerpuff Girls to the movie poster for Hidden Figures, and they're talking about, you know, female empowerment and, you know, how women, you know,
01:13:50
Speaker
do all of these things that, you know, we don't see them represented in rights, you know, superheroes or female scientists. And then I had someone else compare. They were also talking about women's rights, but they were talking about it from the perspective of sports, which was just like, whoa, I never would have thought about that.
01:14:10
Speaker
painting from the 1800s of a woman playing tennis to a tabloid image or paparazzi photo of Sumita Williams at a game. And so they talked about, you know, like the differences between like what women could wear, because you know, it's like this big old heavy dress from the 1800s and a hat versus, you know, um, forms that including that's aerodynamic and, um, all of these things. But she still gets criticized for. Right. Right. Like you can't wear a tutu because blah, blah, blah. Um,
01:14:40
Speaker
But yeah, and so as we go on, you know, that's what they're doing, like we have different themes. So each of the journal compares to whatever theme we're talking about related to diversity and social justice. And then my favorite part is the very last one, where what they do is they go back and they take every single comparison and every single post they analyzed and they put them together to make a collage.
01:15:05
Speaker
And it's this way of them not only being able to see how their comparisons progressed and so they can see how they were actually engaging with it, but it has this added component of like it gives them a chance to see like their identity and how that influenced them because
01:15:25
Speaker
You know, it's like when they actually go back and look at them, they're like, wow, I always talked about women's rights or I always focused on people of color, you know, and this idea of representation. And it's really cool because they have to make this work, but then they also have to get a title for their collage. And I think one of my favorite ones, I can't remember it verbatim, but it was like a look into the subconscious mind. And I was just like, oh, so cool.
01:15:56
Speaker
And it was like how the students, you know, really paid attention to how their experiences as, you know, a woman of color and how it led her to having these different interactions with art and how much, you know, she didn't realize it, but she always gravitated towards those posts or
01:16:18
Speaker
and making comparisons that highlighted, you know, the people who had the same identity as her. And so, yeah, that's where tabloid art history comes into play. The course is visual culture, it's not art history. Like giving them an opportunity to see that, you know, anything can be visual culture if you can make the argument for it. And you can apply critical thinking, visual analysis, and creative thinking
01:16:46
Speaker
to how you are approaching these works and how you can use them to talk about really important issues.
01:16:55
Speaker
But gosh, that's just so freaking amazing. Like try not to get like misty eyed right here because I am really thinking about, you know, I have that perspective of you coming from a studio background and my direct colleagues and peers being in the studio program and them feeling that intimidation when they're thrusted into the art history classroom specifically. And I feel like through that methodology of teaching, you're not just setting up
01:17:23
Speaker
so many students up for success. But there's a reason that certain students I think go into studio rather than art history. And then when they're thrust to kind of change the ways in which they're thinking, like put on your art history hat, like take off your hat that you can think and you can feel and you can do whatever you want. I've seen that real emotional and mental like shut down. And I've seen that be like really detrimental too.
01:17:51
Speaker
a lot of students, so that is just fantastic. But Bianca and I have spoken about the challenges of an art history classroom, where each story in history is more complex than time allows for, we have to learn about the masters of art history, like we get it, they're important, we need to know it. But unless it's through individual research, and kind of like you've talked about, sometimes that is implemented into curriculum,
01:18:19
Speaker
But it's a lot of times unfortunately I think presentations get left as an afterthought and not a lot of people pay attention to those. So when less quintessential examples of art get brought up within lectures, they just kind of
01:18:35
Speaker
you know at that point it's just what are we really learning here what are we taking away from this so um although we have also you know seen and participated in productive change we have also mentioned that in order to bring these intersections of pop culture and high culture into academia that really does call for a change in curriculum so i'm just really curious about your thoughts on that i mean i know you're already kind of telling us what you're doing but
01:19:06
Speaker
Yeah, so we're thinking about that I, you know, kind of just reiterating, you know, just this idea that, you know, getting not just students in your class, but getting anyone to understand that you don't have to be in some art history class or an art history major to be able to understand the impact that art has, you know, anyone can go to, you know, a museum or an exhibition and
01:19:35
Speaker
you know, whatever that work may be, I feel like, you know, it's maybe not everyone, but a really large portion of the population would be able to say, yeah, like that work affected me in some way, you know. But the other way to think about it is just like, think about when you're watching the news, right? And so that's something that we talk about a lot in our class is, you know, it's like,
01:20:01
Speaker
whether you're thinking about or not the news, that's a form of visual culture, right? Because it's something that's being presented to you via TV or if you're on social media, like you see news stories posted all the time. And so, but when you're thinking about pop culture, you know, I think that's, you know, one of the really great ways that you can get people to really start thinking about this is because, you know, like when you're thinking about
01:20:29
Speaker
music videos or you know like quite literally tabloid images and thinking about how all of these celebrities are posting like very specifically designed representations of themselves or some aesthetic to their social media accounts or you know thinking about how a music artist makes a set design for a concert you know it's just like
01:20:59
Speaker
Thinking about and getting students to understand any time you're applying visual analysis, you don't realize that you're doing it a lot of the time because you're always thinking about it. You might not necessarily be sitting there writing down, oh, I think this person did this because of this, or this relates to this. You're sitting there thinking,
01:21:23
Speaker
Wow, like I really like that. Maybe it's because there were complementary colors used, but you know you're not like consciously thinking about it, but it's still a way for you to understand, you know, like how art has made an impact in that specific situation. And so pop culture is, you know, and getting students and anyone, you know, everyone in general just to
01:21:46
Speaker
think about what it means and the presence that it has. And just really using that as kind of the starting point for understanding what it means to study art. And then that can lead them to finding something else.
Innovative Teaching Methods and Conclusion
01:22:01
Speaker
Maybe they're really into, maybe they get really into a post that they see on social media and it's this work of art from a specific artist. Well, that can inspire them to follow the artist and learn more and more. So yeah.
01:22:16
Speaker
Well, Olivia, I just found your writing as a whole just so refreshing for that transparency and that that personal perspective that you have as not only the teacher, but as the learner as well and just being so aware and inclusive of those both sides.
01:22:34
Speaker
you know of that classroom environment that can be like super scary and traumatic for a lot of people. I'm like right now thinking about like all the traumatic moments I had as a student like it took me a really long time to like find my voice and like Bianca said like I don't always speak up in classroom environments either up until my senior year. So I want to thank you so much for being here but I want Bianca to ask our last fun question.
01:23:04
Speaker
In honor of our colleague from grad school, Gianna and I, well Gianna really, really called it the best get to know you question. So for our friend from grad school, Olivia, what would you put in your flux kit?
01:23:23
Speaker
So I've been thinking about this and I have a response, but I couldn't decide if I thought it was a cop-out or not. This is what I would put in a flex kit. So when I was thinking about, okay, so flex kits are supposed to be, you know,
01:23:39
Speaker
really random assortment of ways artists have come together and someone can interact with seemingly insignificant or insignificant objects, but having this option to have it at your fingertips, but also using it as a way to learn. We have different manuals and stuff like that in a flex kit. So I was thinking about this from the perspective of me being
01:24:08
Speaker
an educator and like thinking about how I would involve my students in like a books kid project. And so one of the assignments, it's really an activity that I have my students do. I call the nameplate project and every semester at the third week of the semester I believe is when we introduce it. So they get a piece of construction paper
01:24:36
Speaker
And they have to write their name on it. They can do it however they want to. But every single class, they have to add something to it that relates to what we talked about. So it can be a doodle. It can be a single word. It can be a quote, anything they want. And they have to put the date next to it so they can associate it with a specific topic. But that's all that they know. They don't know what it's for until the end of the semester.
01:25:05
Speaker
And so then at the end of the semester, on our last big discussion day before they start working on their final projects is we go back and look at them and we tell them, you know, it's like a way for them to see how we all were in the same class, but we all have our different story of how we interacted with that class. And so I think that, you know, it's a really, it would be a really interesting thing to like,
01:25:34
Speaker
have a flux kit of like a journey through an art education class and you know like whether you made like little booklets or something of that but then also you know giving students an opportunity to like make their you know those comparisons that they're making for their journals and put that in there as well and so you know like getting people an opportunity to see oh well you know I can also learn something from social media and I can
01:26:04
Speaker
you know, always have this at my fingertips and, you know, just really getting a flux get together that gets people to think about like, how do you record your story and your interaction?
01:26:16
Speaker
I love it. So everyone sign up for Olivia's class and I love it. Olivia, before we let you go, do you have anything that you want to plug? Do you want to tell people where to follow you? Do you have anything exciting coming up you want to share?
01:26:37
Speaker
Um, in terms of exciting, um, well, I'm just going to be writing for the next, you know, a few months. So don't have anything fun with that. Extremely fun going on with that. But, um, yeah, um, I'm on Instagram. Um, I'm the only person with my name. So if you just search for my name, you'll find me. I can't remember what my Instagram handle is off the top of my head. Um, we can link it. We can tag you. Olivia's in there somewhere. Um, yeah. So.
01:27:06
Speaker
That's about it, though. Awesome. Well, we will link all of the things we talked about with Olivia in our resources page. We will link that TED talk. So hopefully everyone can watch this awesome TED talk. Olivia, thank you so much for being here. I'm just, I'm so excited for everyone to hear this and
01:27:25
Speaker
I think moving forward for us too, just thinking about how, how we on the podcast can integrate what we talked about today to make everyone a better learner and share it for, you know, and learn from everyone across the board is really exciting. So thank you so much. Thank you all. I enjoyed it. All right, guys, we will talk to you soon. Bye everyone.