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When Your Job Gets You On TV
14 Plays15 days ago
Have you got a will?
If you haven't you could be creating work for people like Ryan Gregory.
Ryan is the International Director at Finders International who are probate researchers. He spends his time at work tracing heirs to estates, property and assets.
His job made him a star of twelve series of the BBC TV programme Heir Hunters.
In this episode of The Independent Minds Ryan explains what it is like doing your profession when your office has become a TV studio.
How Ryan and his team had to adapt the way in which they worked to meet the requirements of daytime TV.
Ryan and Michael do agree that appearing on a hit daytime TV show like Heir Hunters which is shown on a prominent channel like BBC1 does raise the profile of a business.
The Independent Minds is made on Zencastr.
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencastr visit the Zencastr websiteand use our offer code ABECEDER.
You can find out more about Ryan Gregory and Finders International at Abeceder.co.uk
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Transcript
Introduction to The Independent Minds
00:00:05
Speaker
Made on Zencaster. Hello and welcome to The Independent Minds, a series of conversations between Abisida and people who think outside the box about how work works, with the aim of creating better workplace experiences for everyone. I'm your host, Michael Millward, the managing director of Abisida.
00:00:27
Speaker
As the jingle at the start of this podcast says, the independent minds is made on Zencaster. Zencaster is the all-in-one podcasting platform on which you can make your podcast in one place and then distribute it to all of the major platforms.
Episode Overview: Thought-Provoking Discussions
00:00:44
Speaker
Zencaster really does make making podcasts so easy.
00:00:49
Speaker
If you would like to try podcasting using Zencaster, visit zencaster.com forward slash pricing and use my offer code ABACEDA. All the details are in the description.
00:01:01
Speaker
Now that I have told you how wonderful Zencaster is for making podcasts, we should make one. One that will be well worth listening to, liking, downloading, and subscribing to. As with every episode of The Independent Minds, we won't be telling you what to think, but we are hoping to make you think.
Meet Ryan Gregory: A Probate Researcher's Journey
00:01:20
Speaker
Today, my guest Independent Mind is Ryan Gregory from Finders International.
00:01:27
Speaker
Ryan is a probate researcher which means that he spends his time at work tracing heirs to estates, property and assets. It's a job that he's done on the TV. Ryan is based in London which like most capital cities is a very expensive place to visit.
00:01:43
Speaker
That is why when work requires me to visit London, I always make my travel arrangements with the Ultimate Travel Club, as that is where I can access trade prices on flights, so hotels, holidays, and all sorts of other travel-related purchases. There's a link and a membership code in the description. Now that I've paid the rent, it's time to make a podcast. Hello, Ryan. Hi, Michael. Thanks for having me. It's a great pleasure. I am interviewing my first TV personality.
00:02:12
Speaker
I wouldn't quite say that, but yeah, thank you for the intro and for noting that we were on a TV show for a number of years. Yeah, kind of given me a big introduction. Hopefully I can share with everyone what we do in our very niche profession of probate genealogy.
00:02:28
Speaker
Please, could we start though with a short sort of introduction about who Ryan Gregory is and how you came to be a probate researcher? Okay, so I will keep it short. I won't start right at the beginning. I will probably jump in at around the age of of 16 when I left secondary school and it was around the time that they were bringing in university tuition fees and I remember the careers advisor or the uni advisor coming in and explaining that to us and I thought well I'm not quite sure about
00:03:01
Speaker
whether that's really what I want to do after five years or so at boarding schools. So I left with my AS levels as they were known back then and after getting to university, entered the job market mostly at the end of a shotgun for my mum who wanted her rent for for me and my three brothers to be at home, I don't blame her. And then going to the job market, so I was doing a few ah jobs here and there working in hotels, working in nursing homes,
00:03:27
Speaker
working in the finance sector until I got the call from a recruitment company about whether I wanted an interview for the for the probate research industry.
Understanding Probate Research and Heir Tracing
00:03:40
Speaker
I was like, what on earth is that? um Obviously you went for the interview, you got the interview, that was back in 2003. And here we are 21 years later-ish, and I'm still here at the same company.
00:03:54
Speaker
and kind of progressed through the the ranks of the company I guess and then I guess I started as office junior and now I'm sitting here as you said quote unquote TV star and international manager of of Finders International.
00:04:12
Speaker
There aren't many people nowadays who join one organisation straight from school, essentially, and are still there. So like in their late 30s, early 40s, it's quite unusual not to have moved around. What is it about Binders International that made you stay? First thing I do agree with you, it is unusual to to stick out a job for so long. I would say, you know, if I'm honest, it wasn't without its, you know, five year itches or seven year itches along the way, I think it's any human nature that you would start so to think about your future and whether you're on the right path. I think I was just fortunate really that I joined company at the right time. There was only half a dozen of us. We were working outside of it.
00:04:53
Speaker
converted apartment in South Kensington above a paparazzi agency. And then after a few years after that, we moved to an office in Old Street. And I think just because there was always things happening, there was always the ability to grow within the company. There was always the chance at progression. But I think more importantly than that and what underpinned everything was finding what we do interesting and finding it rewarding. I would still say to to people that this comes up a lot in interviews that we do. I still haven't really met anyone, maybe one or two people if I'm honest, over 21 years and I thought that job sounds more interesting.
00:05:28
Speaker
but that's something that i wouldn't mind doing so either i've got severe stockholm syndrome which i don't think is the case or i just really enjoy what i do and i think there's you know i think the proof is that there's a number of other people that find us who've been there similar times to me you know i'm not kind of a rogue agent who's glued myself to the chair and won't budge. I think there is a good ah good mix of people with a lot of decades of experience in the industry and then we kind of have this kind of under-swell of young talent in the company as well. So that also keeps you on your feet as you go. You started when Finders International was just half a dozen people. How many people work there now?
00:06:07
Speaker
I think it's northwards of 120 or 150 staff now. and We've got offices in London, Cardiff, Edinburgh, Dublin, Sydney. We've expanded from the number of people, from the geographic locations, from the volume of of work and the reputation and the revenue of the company. Everything has expanded kind of continuously if you like over the last 21 years and again that's another reason which is going to something i don't think about but something like that is going to to keep you within the company if you see it growing and becoming successful you know that's something that's easy to overlook i guess yeah you're a probate researcher what does that actually mean so probate research or probate genealogy
00:06:47
Speaker
if we break it down similar to the name of your company we can break it down and the way that that goes is probate is wills and inheritance and the research or genealogy part of that just explains how we typically would find the beneficiaries to an estate. So it's a broad term, I would say definitely we undertake more than just probate genealogy or just probate research but effectively we're here to find missing beneficiaries to unclaimed assets, be it an unclaimed inheritance or an unclaimed bank account or even an unclaimed empty property.
00:07:23
Speaker
As long as there's positive tracing, and usually does fit within the realm of inheritance, then we're here to help the legal and finance industries with with that exact task, with positive tracing of people in the UK and around the world. Because I get the feeling that that that little two-word phrase, positive tracing, is quite important. You're not going to knock on somebody's door and say like, we've done a probate research and here are all the bills that have to be paid.
00:07:52
Speaker
Yeah, no, luckily not. And this actually came up on, I saw it on my LinkedIn a couple of days ago that an estate practitioner mentioned the truth ah within the the system in England and Wales and across the UK, which is that you cannot inherit a debt. That's not to say that the bills don't have to be paid before you receive your inheritance, but in the UK, you cannot inherit a debt. And, you know, obviously my role as the international manager kind of leads me to to think of the cases that I work on the continent in Europe and you very much can inherit a debt so it's just a reminder sometimes as to how the different systems work in different countries but yeah I mean I think you know positive tracing is the
00:08:35
Speaker
is the word. We would never get involved with something. We have the tools and we have the resources that we could find anyone for any possible reason. you know I think in a legal setting, I'm sure you know lawyers would love to come to us and for us to get involved with you know divorces or trying to find assets that one spouse may have in a divorce proceeding, that that sort of stuff. I think there's a whole kind of a world of of investigation that we're not part of because it doesn't fall under that category of positive
Unclaimed Inheritances: The Modern Disconnect
00:09:05
Speaker
tracing. and yeah so For obvious reasons, we stay away from that. One of the things that is surprising and watching the TV programme is even more surprising is that people inherit money from family members that they they've lost touch with. And yet we live in a world where everybody is so super connected. Internet, social media, telephones, all sorts of things. People lose contact with relatives and by surprise find out they've got ah an inheritance. We hit the nail on the head. The vast majority of the cases we get into are in-trays, especially on the on the side of intestacy, which means without leaving a will. A lot of the intestate cases we work, the person is pretty much estranged from their family. I wouldn't say
00:09:48
Speaker
that's exclusively the case, we do work for public sector, where sometimes in those cases, more often than others, we are finding close next of kin. um And typically, um they don't know the person has passed away, sometimes they may already know when we're contacting them. but But you're right, I mean, we live in a very connected world in some aspects that we do have social media, and we do have these ways to keep in touch with people, but back in the day this used to be, you know, someone's little black book and we'd speak to people in the family and they'd say, oh, I didn't realise, oh, I figured this person had passed away because they didn't receive a Christmas card from them or, and then then they go back to their black book and they kind of scratch out the name. So there probably was a ah social media of sorts for our grandparents' generation and there was ways of keeping in touch. It was just a bit more
00:10:41
Speaker
kind of antiquated than it is today. It should be easy in this day and age. But then again, there's a lot of people that are not on social social media. And I think the type of people that would end up being estranged from their family are probably not the type of people that would necessarily be on social media. So it's not always as as as simple as it kind of having that connection. I think it is trying to get into the kind of background as to why people are passing away without leaving a world without no known next of kin really.
00:11:11
Speaker
So when somebody has left a will, and it is important to have a will, I think that's one of the things you agree with. 100%, yeah, I've had a will for a number of years, I think everyone thought I was a bit mad for having a will at such a young age, but I still try and get people that I know to make a will. They don't have one, I think it's important, I think it's especially important for people who then themselves are estranged from someone in their family, especially a parent, if both your parents are alive and you're estranged from one of both of your parents,
00:11:38
Speaker
you're going to want to make a will. um Because, you know, if you don't have children, both of your parents would be in line to inherit. For me personally, I wasn't in touch with my dad for most of my lifetime. And, you know, whether I thought I had assets or I didn't, I thought my way to explain it to people was if you were, you know, hit by a bus and, you know, live in London, say that was to pay out 50,000 pounds in damages, would I want half of that going to someone I didn't know, not really.
How Finders International Operates
00:12:05
Speaker
It's a bit of a conversation that a lot of people don't want to have, which ties back into the nature of the business that we're in, is that people don't really want to think of the kind of mortality. I think there still is a bit of a taboo or an awkwardness about talking about end of life.
00:12:21
Speaker
you know I do think the conversation is moving on somewhat but you know back to your original question I think yeah it's very important that everybody has a will if there is a will in place and that will is updated every few years at least or when some new assets are acquired then you know your solicitor or your personal representative knows exactly what should happen with your estate. That's gold standard, so but you know we don't live in a society where that's necessarily possible for everyone. You reminded me to update my will then. I have to do that after this. What is the process that happens? when What gets you started in terms of doing this probate research?
00:12:59
Speaker
So there's a few different ways in which we would have a case come into us. A large portion of the cases we work, they're referred to us by but by what we was call private clients. So they could be you know estate practitioners, lawyers, people that looked after the person that's passed away during their lifetime.
00:13:18
Speaker
We also receive referrals from local authorities, from hospitals, from care homes. We also source cases ourselves from the public domain and that includes looking at this bone of a cantia list which is a list put out by the government legal department on an almost daily basis where you know the cases come into them and there's no will that they can see of immediately and there's the fact that it's come into them.
00:13:42
Speaker
would possibly indicate no known next of kin. So it's kind of two pronged really I think if you were to break it down into two, I think it would be referrals in from referrers and then also that sourcing from the public domain, those cases that are available just in the ether really. How do you get paid? Is it a flat fee or is it a percentage of the amount of money that you're dealing with? It depends. If there are personal representatives in place that can authorize a fee from the outset, then of course we would provide fee-based quotation along with our other fee options to the person that's inquiring, usually a solicitor.
00:14:22
Speaker
um And then, you know, sometimes they engage us on that fee basis. Otherwise, we do work on a contingency basis where the agreement is signed by the beneficiary. We agree terms with the beneficiary that ah finders fee is a percentage of the net entitlement ultimately when they receive their funds so they're the two main ways that we would get really rated for our work. It's much the sort of similar sort of way to lots of other our professions would operate as well. I am curious about what the the largest sort of amount of money that you've handed over to somebody is.
00:14:58
Speaker
There was a case a couple of years ago that I was working and there was a case outside of of the US, like the person passed away in the US in the States. Often the paperwork is kind of accessible prior to any distribution and we got the papers in and we had a look to see if we could find any missing heirs and we found a missing heir.
00:15:22
Speaker
He's ready to be young. He's on a kind of generation below the other heirs in the family. So I think possibly sometimes there's a misunderstanding of the succession rules in a particular location. And some people could ah believe, which is the case in some countries and states of America, that the closest class of kin or the oldest generation, they would take everything in this case. That wasn't the the way it should have been done. So we found this beneficiary living in Canada and they haven't received an inheritance yet. They've received some of it but I think overall rule they should be set to receive five or six million dollars. Nice. Yeah so I mean that's obviously a life-changing sum of money. That's for sure by far the biggest sum that I've ever found for someone. I remember probably early
00:16:08
Speaker
early noughties. I would probably be research a million pound case once or twice a year and obviously with the increase in in real estate property value in a lot of western countries the number of million pound a million dollar estates you see these days I mean they're kind of there's a fewer week. yeah Partly that's because Finders has increased the number of clients we have but I think also it is just the way that property has kind of shot up and again back to people not leaving a will. We're talking about people who maybe didn't want to talk about passing away, maybe they didn't have anyone they thought they wanted to leave something to, maybe it just didn't cross their mind because you know they had they had their nest egg and they had their home and they brought their home
00:16:56
Speaker
and the 60s or 70s and as we all know it was cheaper to buy property back then although still pretty hard to do but maybe as you as you pay off your mortgage and you live in your home some people maybe don't even consider having a major asset but compiled particularly by people that have migrated into the UK from overseas and English maybe isn't their first language but they still bought a home but maybe they you know they don't have a lawyer or financial advisor as some people do and they just don't say think about it but yeah definitely you know million pound cases, million dollar cases, there's there's quite a few of them around these days. It doesn't necessarily always go to one person. That's what made this case kind of unique. I think the estate overalls would be worth $20 million. dollars So I mean, even that alone is the biggest estate I've ever worked on. And always surprising that someone with that amount of money doesn't either will. But it takes all sorts so it true to kind of not get around to doing it. You know, just goes to show it's not just people with a
00:17:53
Speaker
kind of an average amount of money. It
TV Influence on Probate Research Awareness
00:17:55
Speaker
can be very wealthy people as well. You mentioned that the organization Finders International has has grown from just six employees when you started 20 something years ago to now well over a hundred and the number of clients that you are getting has also increased. The number of people who have wealth but don't have a will seems to be increasing as well.
00:18:19
Speaker
But what role has being a television star played in the growth of the business? So in terms of the growth of the business, I think Finders as was always on a trajectory to grow. Without the TV show, I would say that there was an inflection point where we decided after a few years of not being on the show, we thought the initial thinking was, OK, this is um team was something which which is very sensitive to people and something which um you know, people don't necessarily want to talk about. After a few seasons of the the TV show, and we saw how the production team kind of handled it and dealt with it. We thought, okay, this is something that we can um get on board with, we can do it slightly in our own way, um have a different image to ah the other company or companies on the TV show.
00:19:11
Speaker
kind of install the kind of finders team and the kind of, um you know, kind of youthfulness of the the company, if you like. And I would say, I guess we probably weren't really forecasting what the changes would be, but I think it was definitely that educational kind of awareness that came with being inside the TV, inside the homes of people we were contacting on a daily basis. Now, Air Hunters was a morning TV show on the BBC.
00:19:39
Speaker
um was on the iPlayer as well, and but I think it was on after the news. So there was a particular demographic that would have their kind of TV on at that time and it was maybe an older generation of people, but also they're the generation of people we were contacting on our cases. So it happened numerous times that we'd be ringing someone to say they could be entitled to inherit foreign estate And they'd be like, I'm watching you guys on the TV. Is that Ryan? Is that Amy? And you know they they knew about Finders. and And more importantly, they knew about the industry and they knew it existed. That by far was the biggest benefit of being on the TV show. And even you know to this day, you know we are getting into a world where AI can fake.
00:20:24
Speaker
TV but even just a year or two ago that wasn't really that talks about what that heard of so I was working in the US before Covid for a few months with ah with a kind of partner company and yeah I was sent off to speak to ah beneficiaries who had just ignored this company for a number of months or years and I think once people see that you were on the BBC it's a brand that a lot of people recognise especially in the US, add some credibility, a lot of credibility, I would say, um behind, you know, what is an industry where most people have their back up for obvious reasons. You know, we've all
00:21:04
Speaker
probably been scammed or someone's tried to scam us, should I say, within Harrison. So I say the TV show certainly helps us kind of just to kind of raise awareness that we exist. What is it like doing your job with television cameras, microphones, lights all around you? What's that like?
00:21:23
Speaker
um and with It took a lot of getting used to, to be honest. like Were you going buying clothes and telling telling the people in the shops that you were going to be on television? but This is a bit of a secret between me and you, Michael, but myself and my colleague that were to be the kind of might the prominent figureheads of the company. We did ask for a cheeky clothing budget for the the TV show, which we kindly were kind of allowed by our then management director so we got a bit of a wardrobe budget if you like so we had a kind of tiny wardrobe in the office of our smart shirts and tops and trousers things that we could kind of slip into if if the camera crew was around but you know yeah as you said trying to do your work with lights cameras
00:22:09
Speaker
interviews was challenging at best. think The cases that we were researching were mostly these bona fide cases and you there is a time-sensitive element to it because a number of different companies will be looking at these cases and you know if you don't do the the right birth search or marriage search entirely, you don't dial that number quick enough. Someone else may be speaking to the person that you need to speak to. So when you're trying to rush around the office and we were you know, flake flinging, family handwritten family trees everywhere, kind of dividing up the family tree and why you're doing that in the kind of throes of the the race and of the research. And someone's like, could you just tell us what you're doing at the moment? And in the back of your mind, you're just thinking, you really need to make that phone call. So it's kind of added a bit of extra pressure or stress.
00:22:54
Speaker
to what we were doing and then having to stay late and do interviews when you're you're pretty tired and you want to go home. It wasn't the best but I think what it really did for me the big positive away from the commercial side for Finders was to to get us ingrained into the social history of the family. It's something that we didn't really do too much of before because we were focused on the job in hand but this kind of did pull us away and we did have to try and research the deceased person and find out a lot more about them so we could kind of put together this story of the person who passed away. So I'd say that's the kind of endearing change it gave to me. that i gave It made me a lot more interested in and the social history and trying to put together a ah story of who these people are within the family. I get the feeling that you really not just liked it, you loved doing it. Yeah, it was good. I would happily do it again. I think with anything, especially as back to your earlier question,
00:23:49
Speaker
what's going to keep you at a job for for decades, I think. Being pushed outside of your comfort zone is massive. Me and my colleague really didn't want to do the the TV show at the beginning, um but with a bit of persuasion, we were kind of brought around, you know, there's always a bit of resistance which comes with change or doing something new. But I think deep down we knew we we would enjoy it and then once we got into it, it was it was fun and it is something that you do and it does take you out of your comfort zone and there's something at the end of it which you can you can share with you know your family and with people that watched it on TV. So yeah, no was it was enjoyable in retrospect. Yeah, yeah I must have admit there was a time in my career as an HR professional where reality TV had sort of like started and you'd find yourself in a meeting room with a couple of colleagues and you're discussing an employee who's a bit of a problem
00:24:40
Speaker
and you you know you want to say something but you know it's not really a very professional thing to say but this this employee is just irritating you with their behavior and their refusal to accept feedback remember saying one day you know I'm going to use words thinking that I am on a reality TV show and whatever I say is going to be used and viewed forever I'm going to rethink the way in which I do my job as if I'm being watched by other people rather than just within a group of people that it's not going to go anywhere else. It's probably fair. I think and in this day and age, I think privacy and confidentiality with smartphones and cameras and recordings and social media, et cetera, I think it's probably um something that's constrained to the past, isn't it? Thinking that, you know, especially in a work environment, I think there is a distinct separation between what you
00:25:31
Speaker
can talk
Industry Evolution and Probate Genealogy Awareness
00:25:32
Speaker
about at work. And this was a ah TV show for the BBC. We did have to sanitise some of the stories and some of the terminology we would probably use in in our in a legal setting. You know, the legal terminology for the person that passed away is is the deceased. So they obviously didn't like us using that term.
00:25:50
Speaker
too much for morning TV. In legitimate is a term that is really really antiquated and really horrible but it just means born outside of wedlock and so we would have to say born outside of wedlock instead of illegitimate but in legal terminology that's what we would use. I have no issue we use for no children so it's kind of small little things but also in terms of the social history there were quite a lot of interesting stories which we looked at and talked about and were like how do we how do we get this on to the BBC at 10 in the morning which is also challenging itself.
00:26:19
Speaker
So when you're thinking about so the legalese, the language that you're using, the whole sort of history of of a profession and and the growth, you have competitors as well. But what's the future for Finders International and and for the the profession as a whole? It's a tricky one to answer, really, in terms of what the future looks like for probate geology. I guess I'll look back over the last 20 years and and see how much it's changed. I think the main talking points as to how it's changed is certainly um globalization, it's certainly a mixture of people, the migration patterns, you know, it used to be we were dealing with people that came to the UK in the, you know, 20th century, escaping World War I or World War II or the pogroms or whatever it may be, and now we're seeing more of a multinational
00:27:06
Speaker
migration of people moving to the UK because they can afford to or because you know they've they've got a job opportunity here or there are theatres of war away from Europe which has meant there's more migration into the UK and you know people are still passing away within a state and I think the the nature of international poverty and energy the world already is a lot smaller than what it used to to be and we we are tracing people in all corners of the world as we speak. So I think that's that's going to change. And I'm very conscious as as head of international, we need to stay ahead of the game with making sure we have contacts in places we never had to before, places in Africa or the Middle East. you know In the last week, we've got two cases leading to Iran, and that's not somewhere where we were necessarily researching 20 years ago. So I think that is something that we're conscious of. And I think, again, you know we said at the start of this about
00:27:57
Speaker
probate research being a kind of catch-all term it used to be very much we do the gene allergy we'll send it off to the lawyer lawyers or solicitor and then that'll be our job done but over the years Finders has built up other services we would you know be looking for any additional assets that are due to the estate we'd be looking for any will that the deceased person left, we'd be assisting with overseas asset repatriation. So assets could be pulled into the UK of estate from overseas. We will look at obtaining documentation like vital records, birth, marriages and death certificates within the UK but also overseas as well. And I think
00:28:36
Speaker
I think that's been the biggest change that in a way we're not really just probate genealogists anymore. We are legal service providers. We do you know provide a service to the legal industry pretty much from you know A to Z with ah with a probate case. We're there at all stages, I would say, and I think there's going to be more integration between our industry and the legal profession again once people see the benefits of of working with companies such such such as ours I think that's only going to go over the coming years. It certainly sounds very interesting and one of those drugs that I suppose if you've never had to come across them or you've never seen them on tv you wouldn't actually know existed Yeah I had no idea when I was contacted about this job and you know for many years I'd say to people that you know I do genealogy or I'm a probate genealogist and they would hear genealogists and they would think that I study rocks because you know that's a geologist and that's probably you know they heard that on tv and especially for younger people genealogy was never really a thing yeah and nowadays there are tv shows as well as air hunters there's who you think you are and
00:29:46
Speaker
you know more people have access to gene energy from various websites where they can do it themselves. So I think there is an awareness that at least the gene energy part exists. yeah I think whether people know there's an army of people trying to find you know missing money for people, you know that's always going to be an ongoing project for us sir to kind of raise the profile of the industry. Yes, I live in hope that one day I will receive a telephone call from Finders International then, telling me that you've found millions of pounds that I have inherited. Oh my God, if I had a pound for every time I've had that. Yeah, no, but I mean, like it can happen. ive I have actually spoken to Georgia exercise, I've contacted
00:30:26
Speaker
ex-neighbors, people I've been to school with, celebrities, minor royals, people living on the streets, people overseas. It can happen to anyone that you do receive news of inheritance, you know, typically it's going to be the older generation because one of your parents would have needed to pass away unless it's one of your siblings and then it gets into the murky realm of someone does have to pass away for someone to be able to inherit. But, you know, sometimes a lot of the cases we do is ah is a distant cousin or, you know, second cousin that someone probably never even knew existed. So it literally is, to use a phrase of my former, our former management director,
Episode Conclusion and Listener Engagement
00:31:06
Speaker
Penny's from heaven. Yes, very much so. I will live in hope, but for today, Ryan, it's been really very interesting. I do appreciate your time. Thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Thank you, Ryan, for helping me make such an interesting episode of The Independent Minds. I am Michael Millward, managing director of Abecida, and I have been having a conversation with The Independent Mind, Ryan Gregory, the international manager at Finders International, who are probate researchers.
00:31:36
Speaker
You can find out more information about both of us at abocida.co.uk. If you are listening to the independent minds on your smartphone, you may like to know that 3 has the UK's fastest 5G network with unlimited data. So listening to 3 means you can wave goodbye to buffering.
00:31:53
Speaker
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00:32:15
Speaker
To make sure you don't miss out on future episodes, please subscribe. All that remains for me to say is until the next episode of The Independent Minds. Thank you for listening and goodbye.