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Pan Handle Me - How Homeless People Make Us Feel
54 Plays1 year ago
Matt and Lance discuss their views and personal interactions with homeless people. Both agree that seeing other people suffer is a form of suffering albeit to a much lesser extent. How dare these homeless people make us feel guilty and sad? How dare they challenge us to figure out whether to give or what to give?
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Transcript
Conflicted Emotions and Feedback on Podcast Purpose
00:00:00
Speaker
I'm a POS because I don't really care much about the homeless in my neighborhood. They're just there. They're just there. You are a POS, man. I'm a POS when it comes to homeless people because I feel like i feel like they're out to get me. like I feel this sense that they're just taking advantage of me and they got no issues in their lives. like They're literally out on the street just trying to fuck me.
00:00:28
Speaker
like There's no sympathy for what they might have been through. There's no like empathy. It's just like, oh, here's a person trying to steal from me.
00:00:45
Speaker
old school friends from nondefo startup podcast cause they feel i bored twenty nine 29 listeners just ain't enough. Gonna go big if they
00:01:30
Speaker
Hey Lance, I know this is about why we suck, but I've had a lot of positive feedback about your rap songs. I wanted to congratulate you on that, man. Okay, okay, I appreciate it. ah I was thinking about this podcast a little bit the other day, and and I'm like, I don't think it's just about us being piles of shit.
00:01:51
Speaker
I think it's really more the gray area in our own thinking and us acknowledging that and it's a real counter to what we are seeing on the internet and in YouTube and whatever these days where everybody just like they have such these strong insane strong opinions and you're supposed to believe them and ah we're just saying we don't know anything and I think that's going to be appealing to a lot of people or nobody I don't know.
Understanding Homelessness Through Different Lenses
00:02:16
Speaker
Well I think like there's so much uh there's a push right now to be to be to take care of yourself. and and you know and And you come first because you can't love someone else if you don't love yourself. So there's always people hyping themselves up. And that's like a therapist angle and a self-help angle and Indian dudes on ah MySpace, whatever. I don't know what, i'm so I'm so out there Lance, I don't know what social platforms are. No, I'm kidding, like ah Instagram. But the reality is you're just being self-centered a lot of times. so we
00:02:50
Speaker
saying I'm a piece of shit because of this, then we can actually get somewhere. Like you can't just be like, I'm a good person. You should acknowledge some of your deficiencies. Yeah. And which we're going to do in this conversation today, which is hardcore, man, ah hardcore. Yeah. Now there's some people that think, you know, just let the homeless die off. Don't provide them any resources. They're not, uh, they weren't born to be successful in a society. So freeze in the cold night and we'll ah remove the body.
00:03:22
Speaker
Survival the fittest. Yeah. Is that where you're at? Are you one of those people? Yeah, dude, that's where I'm at. Just die. That's why I feel like I'm a piece of shit. because No, it's not where I'm at, but i but I'll tell you this. I am you you know you know't i don't necessarily go, ah this person's probably here because of A, B, or C. It's bad things. like i I try not to get caught up in the like, oh, they're just there because they're shitty decision making, right?
00:03:51
Speaker
Like, I think when I look at panhandling, I feel like it's a little different down here in America, Latina, in Costa Rica. In the US, I think that the homeless epidemic is a drug issue, um a mental health issue, and then a laziness issue. And here, most of the people you find, are there's an issue of poverty.
00:04:17
Speaker
And then there is an aspect of of hustlers out there just trying to hustle, hustle people. It's like, this is what I'm gonna do, life on the street. Really? Why do you think they're hustling now? Well, I've seen some people that, I mean, I've seen people in some work in the same like intersections that I i saw when I first met my wife. Like when I first started coming to Costa Rica. So you're talking about 20 some years. That seems like you're probably like, all right, I'm committed to this hustle. Yeah, it's working for him.
00:04:47
Speaker
Yeah, I mean, like, if it was a mental health issue, it seems like it'd be hard for someone to hold that together for that long. Yeah. Okay. And then you can just tell like, there's, there's a hustle, there's, there's some people you're like, Oh, this is a hustle, where there's a story involved, a long winded story, you know, but there are people are just like, I'm, I need some money, you know, and and they probably do. So yeah, but I,
00:05:10
Speaker
I think we we should all probably acknowledge it's most people that's not where they want to be and they're in a dire situation and we feel it's an attack on our personal space. We're better off for some reason because we worked, you know we made we we got ourselves out of whatever situation we thought we were in and they didn't, right?
00:05:29
Speaker
Yeah.
Helping the Homeless: Personal Experiences and Challenges
00:05:31
Speaker
Would you agree this is a complex issue though, so that we can attack certain points of view that we have, which I think we should probably do, but do you do you agree it's a fairly complex issue from a societal perspective?
00:05:44
Speaker
Say no, motherfucker. Say no. That's a pretty funny question. Yeah, I agree. It's it's pretty complex, the homeless issue. Well, I say it only because we're going to probably ah veer into lots of different aspects of this as two people who don't know. No, and I think There are people that don't see it as complex. It's like the idea is get a job, motherfucker. you know like Right. And that i that that's the funny part that I think we should you know certainly rap about, too. but There's an aspect of it. There are people that, what, 5% of the people in the streets by like just go get a job, quit fucking around. Oh, I'm sure, more. But I just want to know who I'm talking to before we we get going here. But OK, that helps me. I got a rational person on the other side.
00:06:32
Speaker
ah I don't know if this is what you want to hear ah when you say who you're talking to. You're talking to a guy that my range of street charity, so to speak, is I've done things like old mattresses, I've driven out to places trying to look for homeless people, see if they want them, like under bridge embankments and shit. Like i I've, when I make pizza, like to sell pizza, I have some leftover stuff, I've driven around and looked for people in the middle of the night to give, give pizza to.
00:06:56
Speaker
The other side was a guy that'll see someone coming with a sign that says I just got here from Venezuela and my family's starving to rolling up the window so I don't have to talk to them. And feeling like, here comes this motherfucker again. So my range is wide, dude, like. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The mattress, was it quality? Any stains? It it was an old mattress. It was a kid's mattress. so It probably did have stains, but not, I don't know why where you're going with that, but, you know, spilled drinks type stains, stuff like that. I mean, you know, like pee and stuff. Okay, I'll just- I mean, it was an old, probably a 30- I got an old fucking ratty ass mattress. Hey, I'm going to give this away. Wow, it seems better than cardboard or concrete, right? Noble prize winner here, bro. Well, guess what, dude? I found a guy.
00:07:41
Speaker
who who act like I gave him ah game a lottery a winning lottery ticket. He was like, no, I know. And then I went inside and bought the guy coffee. And now I talked to him. He was actually a pretty normal guy. He's like, I live here. It was like on the side of a convenience store. And and he was just like, yeah, this is where I live.
00:07:56
Speaker
But he's not there anymore, so I am like i feel guilty. Maybe my mattress, like people are like, ah he's setting up too much here. He's setting up a f freaking bedroom. Well, I just feel like in the US, I feel like in the US, the homeless are maybe too bougie, and they just like reject that. Don't you know that sharing mattresses is a bad thing? Is that art is that organic thread?
00:08:18
Speaker
because Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that the the homeless scene is a little different. Like, it yeah seems more die. It's weird. It seems more poverty driven here. But the people that are out on the street in the US, it seems more dire, like really bad drug abuse or really don't have all their limbs or just like loss like they don't they're they're mentally ill and they don't have a family member or a governmental or program or anything to like get them straight.
00:08:43
Speaker
or even just take care of them, right? Yeah, yeah. And that I think you're talking about chronic, homeless, and that, according to the experts, is driven mostly by mentally ill folks and substance use disorders. and This is a horrible thought, dude. but So speaking at that point, you mentioned like some people, so you're like, they should just die.
00:09:03
Speaker
These people seem like they're living in hell, like these mentally ill people that are out on the street. Like, is the solution like a peaceful Dr. Kaborkian youth in Asia, you know? Sounds ridiculous to say, but like... Yeah. Here's the challenge and probably why I feel like a POS and what my statement is about, really. They're everywhere where I live and I've just accepted them all across. Really? They're everywhere and that's crazy. I would never think. I mean, you live in like a, essentially a suburb, right?
00:09:31
Speaker
Yeah, but theyre because we have like ah ah a light rail station and we have an access to downtown and a lot of tourists kind of coming through, we're like a small downtown, it's a friendly place, I think, for them. Obviously, the weather is pretty decent. but I think the biggest challenge for your guilty white wealthy person, if you will, is that it's hard to see the pain. So it's it's really hard. There's a woman who's, I mean, my wife and I were just talking about, she's a badass from the perspective of like, she's living out in the wild. Oftentimes she's in her underwear. She's a total mess. And she's got significant,
00:10:12
Speaker
very old. But yeah, not not overweight, if you want to know. But she's got some serious, serious mental illness. It's just hard. Where's this hard to look at? Like in your ah public park or like It's like in the, so there's a lot of bike paths in my area. And so there, there's like little, you know, ditches in different areas for people to set up and there's some forested areas. And so they'll go in there. It's hard to look at. And that's like, how do you guys know about her? Like when you, you guys had discussion about, you said she's a badass, have have either of you engaged?
00:10:46
Speaker
My wife has seen her at the, what do you call it? The food bank. The kitchen. There's a homeless kitchen that, yeah, she's um volunteered at one time, but also we've seen her together when we're riding our bikes and separately. So we know who she is, but there's there's a ton of those people. Like they'll sit in the pavilion of our park and hang and get ready to figure out where they're gonna go sleep.
00:11:09
Speaker
all the time,
Emotional Impact and Societal Responsibility
00:11:10
Speaker
dude. What's the what's the rule where you live up with these people? Do you have to let them go? Are they technically not supposed to be loitering? Or like, if they so they're sleeping in a homemade tent next to the bike path? Is that okay?
00:11:23
Speaker
I have no idea. I don't see many tents set up. Like I'll see dudes on the concrete. It looks like they just and got hammered or wasted or did drugs and they're just like passed out. They've got all kinds of stuff. And sometimes I think the worst of it from an impact to a resident or a home owning resident is like they'll just leave piles of their trash and move on or whatever happened to them, perhaps to the original question that maybe they died in the,
00:11:51
Speaker
middle of the night, but they have just piles of shit everywhere, like whatever scraps, stuff they've been eating and clothes. and And that's like the main impact. I have to look at this stuff, but none of them are, as far as I've ever experienced, like engaging me in a negative way. yeah Yeah, they're always sort of positive. Like I had one guy yell at me, can you take that house when you die? Can you take it with you? Can you take that nice house with you when you die? And I'm like, no, sir. And I was kind of respectful and he's like,
00:12:21
Speaker
Good answer. this That was the only like sort of negative engagement. Otherwise they'll come by and like, oh, I see you guys shooting basketball. That's awesome. Your son's really good, whatever. It doesn't, the fact that I see these people in dire straits though and just walk by and I'll tell you one more story just to solidify it is kind of weird because we did have a guy in our park commit suicide.
00:12:46
Speaker
and hung himself from a tree and our neighbor found him. That's a homeless dude that just like in the middle of February, freezing fucking cold, got to a place where he literally hung himself. And so to the point, like, should we let them die off? No.
00:13:02
Speaker
No, I mean, that's some tragic shit right by a playground, dude, I will say, like in a line of like trees that has next to a creek that goes into a nice little lake that's on our park. He hangs himself and that's some tragic shit. And I i mean, that's the thing where it's like, i throw Seeing this stuff and hearing about this stuff, I hate it, and yet I don't do shit about it. Like I don't really give any money. I've given some money to the soup kitchen place, but I don't do anything. I just want to run from it. I really just kind of want to run from it when it gets bad, but I'll shut up. Can I get this reflective joke in? The guy who hung himself, here's an Eagle Scout, equipped to be able to tie noose knots and hang himself in public.
00:13:49
Speaker
genius, basically, and and we lost them. We lost them. Could have been tying time flies for rich people and in like Aspen or something on their on their fly rods with that not making ability. Like do you have to be you got to be like conscious. I think, well, maybe not. I don't know. I think of people who commit suicide. It's almost like an intelligent or like a thought out decision. You know, intelligence, not the right word. But you know what I mean? Like, it's not that like To make that decision, you had so you have that you had to be thinking about it a little bit to give up like that. Well, sure. Yeah. But like chronically mentally ill and people with insane substance issues, it's not like they don't have moments of clarity. They're not just like babbling in the corner every second. They may get there. Well, there are people like that, those talking themselves and screaming.
00:14:39
Speaker
So I don't know what to do about chronically homeless because they're not in like you said in the U.S. There's not like there's these institutions where they can like go safely and get help. They're either going to go to prison and be completely fucked with or they're going to end up in the health care system and be pushed out as fast as possible. Right.
00:14:59
Speaker
Yeah. And then there's a percentage of people that don't want to get off the streets, or at least they would say that, right? But who are those people? I mean, the guy, the mattress guy I talked to, I didn't get into like, why he's there and everything. But this guy was like, it was a normal conversation. There was no aspect of like, ah this guy's like, out on the fringe, or he's, he's different. out You know, we're we were made a couple jokes. it It was right around the Independence Day. So I was kind of like, you're gonna be running in the parade or what? He's like, no.
00:15:29
Speaker
But it, it ah yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't know who those people, but you you hear people are just like, yeah, I'm better out here, you know? But I think that's like ah giving up. I'm not sure. i don't Do you think it's better looking at a big picture? Like you said, that's ah or is it just like, all right, deal with that. The guy comes and asks you for money. How do you deal with that situation? I do know the times that I've taken action. Like for some reason I get offended if someone takes actions on me and has this hard luck story and takes up my time.
00:15:57
Speaker
But if I, like times I've taken action where I went out and like gave people pizza or the even the mattress thing, I felt like fucking Mother Teresa, dude. I just thought I was the best, like for a couple of seconds, like no doubt. and it would and And somehow I made that act of giving like selfish in its own way. And I was like, you know, I remember kind of telling my kids, like I wasn't, I didn't i was trying to like get them to ask me about it. So I didn't have to just come out and brag. I'm just like, oh, would you ask me what I did today?
00:16:27
Speaker
Funny you ask. I was out giving. I was out helping, helping man. Helping other men and women. I would like to do, I got to get back into the pizza thing. I like it. What's funny though, if I tell people that like, Hey yeah, I'm going out driving around the middle of the night. Cause it's like after a pizza that people are like, are you fucking crazy? You know, you're going to, something's going to happen to you. Yeah. Maybe not the wisest, maybe wait till the morning, but then you got cold pizza and that's right.
00:16:55
Speaker
And I'm trying not to give him the shitty pee i'm trying to give him the same quality pizza that the clients are getting. but But why is that, dude? Dealing with these people has this sense of unsafety. The only thing I can see is is the drug problem that people are, a lot of times, if their addicts are willing to do almost anything.
00:17:14
Speaker
It's where you're what you're surrounded with. Yeah, I don't I don't think people that are that are homeless with just that label on them are inherently violent Violent or unsafe? Yeah. No, it's the things that they're surrounded by drug addiction drug trafficking maybe even sex trafficking. I'm sure that comes to play, but I don't know why you feel so good helping somebody out in need. It just feels like we should all step up in that way, but I get so frustrated with having to deal with. right It's like the psychological burden of driving up to an intersection because they're always at the intersections and some really
00:17:49
Speaker
Banged up people like there's one dude that somehow gets up into the curb of the median with no legs in his wheelchair and just sits there with a sign and There's no way for him to even get over to a car and get money So people have to get out of the car and like lay bills in his lap. It's disturbing to look at right? You're just like ah so much suffering is too much for me, right? But he's probably getting paid with that look, huh? Oh Maybe, yeah, um I would imagine. But that's like my biggest gripe. It's like, oh, you're inflicting me with this psychological paint pain. That's my biggest gripe. That's why I'm a piece of shit. ah you don't You don't like, youre you resent them for making you feel sort of guilty, and right? Something like that? Yeah, I just want this issue cleaned up so I don't have to look at it. And that's the sad part. Same with animals. And I don't know how to clean it up. Yeah, I mean, I think morally, we all have the right to really commit to this problem.
00:18:44
Speaker
I mean, not the right, the what do you call it? like shit do we Should we all just be making our lives charitable work? Is that the only way to be a good human? am i The three hours I spent surfing, could i like that money and that time I could be saving a Venezuelan's fucking life.
00:19:00
Speaker
you know are like and like how far How far do you go with the guilt? you know I know, you have people who are transient with whole families, like with little kids. Yeah, I don't see that very often here. I just see like, you know, sole proprietors, if you will. Yeah, yeah, there's always that little, ah there's always something about everything. The US has a ah bit more like individuality into it, even the homelessness. It's like a guy who's out there like, I'm just making it, making it day by day, bro.
00:19:32
Speaker
But that might stop me in my tracks. Like the little kid thing, that's hard. Dude, almost any, not almost anyone, but a lot of, um, like you go to the ATM here and there'll be a lady sitting outside of it selling bread with a picture of her, but a baby missing an eye or some fucked up horrible picture is like, can you
Cultural and Economic Perspectives on Begging
00:19:51
Speaker
help out? And they're like, I don't need any bread. I'm on a whole, whole foods, no process flour diet, ma'am. So I don't have time for your one-eyed baby.
00:20:00
Speaker
ah no so But then it'll be like, do you have any change? monos and And they'll just keep keep checking down their ask until you're just like, give it up. But and that that like, I see the lady. And sometimes I'll throw in like a like a real like frail whining voice like, Señor, Señor, are you i use on airport? for but They're like, you're like, ah it's so bad, dude. And then I don't get this feeling of sympathy. I get this feeling of like, why are you doing this to me?
00:20:28
Speaker
I know, isn't that weird? Yeah. I had a friend tell me one of our guests. She told me that she was on a bus and and she's seen this guy a few times. Guy like gets on the bus and just demands shit from people. he Sometimes he'll like do like our silly rap or something. But he'll get a super pissed off at people ah if they don't give him anything. And then it's like why the fuck do you let this guy on the bus? And also like you're in a captive place so you can't escape the guy. that People start getting aggressive with me.
00:20:59
Speaker
Or they get pissed, like, come on. And you're like, dude, what? Come on. Like, people pretend to watch your cars here. These watchy men, like, they're protecting your cars. Oh, really? And they'll just show up out of the middle of nowhere. You're, like, getting your car, and they're like, I watched your car. And then so you either just go, fine. Here's ah here's a ah the equivalent of $0.25. Sometimes you'll give it to them. They'll be like, did you say wash or watch? Watchy. Like, like watch. It's like a Spanglish. Like, watch watch your car.
00:21:27
Speaker
Like, watch hey, I'm going to watch the TV. I'm going to watch you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey, I'll watch your kids for you. Yeah. Yeah. Like I'm going to, okay. Wow. They're like so temporary security of your car, but it's the sketchiest looking guy in the world. So he was like, you're like, is he in on it? Work. though So people, yeah, people pay him just so he doesn't fuck with your cars. What happens?
00:21:47
Speaker
So you're like, Oh, great. I didn't, I didn't give that guy any money. So I can't park there next time because that asshole homeless prick is going to be there trying to fuck with my car. You know? Well, I was thinking of retiring down there, Costa Rica now with these watchy bitches. I'm second guessing, bro. little low siing one yeah They're not all, some of them are fine. Of course. there You'll show, you'll get, you'll show come out of restaurant and a guy will show up out of nowhere and be like, I watch your car.
00:22:13
Speaker
And you'll be like, no, you didn't, you know, but usually just keep some change on, give it to them. But, uh, my wife, she would be like, this is a public street. You can't demand money. You you can't just show up and demand money. Cause some people will start being like, it's five bucks or dose, dose mail, 2000 colonis is what, like five, like four bucks. They'll make it's 2000. And you'll be like, no, it's not. You can't do that. And they'll be like, they'll get all pissed off like you, like you're,
00:22:40
Speaker
ruining their job. And that kind of shit, I think, I think it's justified to feel a bit bothered by that, you know? Yeah, or make your choice to give or not. But like that, that's the same feeling of the guys that come at the intersection and start washing your windows. Oh, yeah, preemptively. And you're like, you're a white person, like, I don't need it. No, no. And they just keep going and going and going. And then finally, like, here. You gotta, you need to channel your inner Shaniqua. Yeah.
00:23:07
Speaker
um There's a guy in Hakko in this beach town where I surf. it's funny He looks like a zombie, but he he walks around with palm like strands of palm tree and and starts fucking making like origami. you know And so he'll find you, walk around with your little kids, and he'll just walk up to your kid and start making this shit. So your kid's immediately captivated. And then he'll stand there with the most pathetic look on his face. He'll puppy dog you for 10 minutes. And you'll be like, i don't I'm not going to give you anything.
00:23:37
Speaker
I don't have any money. And he won't he won't leave. like he and He puts on the long face. And I've seen him do it all the time. i also i kind of see I'm down there enough. I kind of see him talking to people. like Things aren't that bad for him. you know This is an act. This is what's in my head. This guy's putting on this Hollywood act. and it's But it's it's really annoying. Because then I gotta be like, kids, don't engage. Don't engage. Don't talk to him. But maybe I should just be like, make your fucking seagull, origami seagull.
00:24:05
Speaker
He'll even, the dude, I've seen him, he'll like long face you if you give him 200 colognes, what, 50 cents, 40 cents, he'll he'll wait around for more. Just sit there and be like, oh. So did I go, how did, oh, how did he get to this state? What happened in his family? What's going on? I'm just like, dude, you're just taking advantage of me and my kids. yeah I lean towards you taking advantage.
00:24:27
Speaker
Is he though? like There's gotta be a whole industry around this. There's a couple factors that are interesting. You're supposed to just go, you're a piece of shit, Matt. That's the that's the answer. I'm sure that there is a backstory to all the people that are willing to do this, but there's a couple things from just like a effort perspective and also just the industry around begging. One, a lot of the things these guys these folks are doing to get money are very difficult. They're challenging high effort.
00:24:53
Speaker
enterprises, like to stand and beg and walk around and make stuff. That's uh, that's tough. Like that's harder than a lot of other jobs. We could say, well, they probably couldn't get those jobs or they wouldn't know how to get those jobs. But like, it is true. Like standing in a median in the hot sun or freezing cold, trying to collect money. That's harder than if you were to make burritos at Chipotle or something. Have you ever seen, there's a, you can probably find it. There's a clip of Michael Jordan, and Charles Barkley on Oprah, like back in the nineties and they were friends.
00:25:24
Speaker
And Barkley's giving him shit that he never he never gives money to anybody or anything. And Jordan's response was something like, if you can if you can sit there and go, I'm homeless, need help, you can say, welcome to McDonald's, can I help you? So go get a job. That's Michael Jordan's approach to that. There is some truth to that. But but um I just think maybe the homeless problem in the US s is such a such a crisis of other things besides just laziness. But there is an aspect of that.
00:25:53
Speaker
But still, I don't know who who fits the laziness thing, but and can I say I don't 100% agree. I mean, it's not great to sit down in the freezing sun, but standing there asking him for money. It's just kind of like, do you want to, you have, you well, I think I don't know about high effort, but it is like, you're, you're an endless salesman of negativity, right? You're just like, walk around. Can I get, can you, Hey, come on, hook me up, hook me up. So yeah, high effort. I don't know about that.
00:26:19
Speaker
Part of effort is like the psychological impact of having to engage. Sure, it's harder if you were digging ditches, but like you know nobody's giving you such negative feedback about who you are and why you're there. Yeah, you're not immediately like ah looked down upon for digging ditches. You're not a pariah, yeah. For the most part. Yeah, yeah.
The Ethics and Morality of Giving
00:26:40
Speaker
oh So the the other aspect of this this homelessness industry, which is just a terrible term, but is the the changes in a medium of exchange, right? There's like less people carrying cash legitimately. In the US, it's like dwindling fast. So like, how do you get money from people? Like that is my excuse every time somebody approaches me because it's true. I don't have cash. I literally have none. I try to keep some change on me. For that purpose?
00:27:09
Speaker
Yeah, i I mean, it's just nice that you never know it also because that's watching man thing. Just like okay, but I try to. um But yeah, but dude, I don't know if it's happening up there. There's there's this essentially like a Venmo or like a money transfer service called sin pay here and you'll see people are be like I take sin pay.
00:27:29
Speaker
which is like tied to a cell phone number. So they're like, don't worry, don't get any money. You can SIM pay me. Pretty organized homelessness there, huh? Then you start to question the need, but yet you don't have cash. What are their options? I've seen this too. Yeah, I actually see my wife would like go into a gas. Okay. There's a lot of times you'll, there's people that work gas stations. So every car comes in there, the hard luck story.
00:27:52
Speaker
And the people, the employees like let them do it. It's really annoying to be honest with you because you just can't get away from it. I've seen like somebody who's aggressive is probably drunk and my wife go, I'm not giving you any money but I'll go inside and buy you some food. And there are times where they're just like pissed, you know? And it's like, you know what? you you If you don't want the food then you're clearly not looking to do something productive.
00:28:17
Speaker
with this money, you know? That's an interesting thing because like, is there a moral high ground when you're giving? What's the right way to give and what's the right way to accept? So for them, like if you're going to use this for booze or drugs, I'm not giving you money. Kind of hypocritical too for most of society. I'm going to play big brother and I'm going to fucking go buy you food. Whereas I mean, I have a different philosophy of like, if I'm going to give it, I'm going to give it, use it for whatever you want. Yeah, I don't know. I mean,
00:28:45
Speaker
It never seems like a bad thing to give somebody food. But maybe their consequences are not feeding their addiction. They go out and they do things that are way worse, like sexual stuff. or And then they have the energy to to carry it out because you gave them the calories.
00:29:03
Speaker
suck But the the one thing might be especially here like fruit and shit is super cheap I want to be just carry around six bananas every time somebody comes up is like my family's hurting I mean, I've i've had I've given people food I walked out of a convenience store while I was with my kids were going surfing and I had just bought a bunch of like bananas and stuff and I walked out there was ah actually a Venezuelan family sitting there looking pathetic and and trying trying to get shit from people and and And I'm like, I don't, I'm going to give you, I'll give you a couple of bananas. And they were like super thankful. Yeah. And i I put my cape on and walked back to my car. Righteous. Do you feel like if you're giving stuff like that to these people that you're perpetuating the problem? Yeah. Well, I, I have felt that way. Like these long, these people I see in the same street corner for a long time. I don't think, um, by giving someone a banana, necessarily they're going to be like, Oh, this is luxurious. I'm going to, I'm going to live out here on the streets forever.
00:30:04
Speaker
But I think what I've actually have some friends that are that are Venezuelan that are that are just here like legally and work and have and live here.
Privilege, Luck, and Homelessness
00:30:14
Speaker
And I haven't got into it with them too much. But a lot of times they're like, yeah, you shouldn't give any money to those people because like there's no reason for them to to be here. They shouldn't. They shouldn't. What does that mean, though? I just think they they probably are they're probably like without a plan and they're putting their, they're just like, I mean, it's not easy to get here. Venezuela is not even that close. So it's not easy to get here and there's, and you're not, it you're not really closer to a solution like going to the U S or something like that. So it's kind of like, what was your, why are you here? You know? Oh, like they, like everybody has a grand plan, especially super poor, indigent people.
00:30:52
Speaker
Well, yeah, but you're talking to people you're talking to people that are in the same situation and found a legal way to get out and and move on to a better life and everything. so they they have I mean, you actually find a lot of people that emigrated to the US legally have not a lot of sympathy for these, some you know they're like Trumpers because they're like, we had to go through this process, why why why can't they? you know So I don't know. I mean, I don't feel like I'm perpetuating the problem by helping people eat.
00:31:18
Speaker
but also like they probably this they probably didn't make a great solution when they hauled their family to the streets of Costa Rica, you know? Yeah, but I just wonder how many people at the very, very bottom of the social standing in whatever country there is are gonna access.
00:31:35
Speaker
The legal means. A 15 year process to get into the US to work. Of immigrating, yeah. Yeah, and and I think it's the same thing. People that have are have come upon some level of privilege. Right, and those people probably have money there. They're more privileged there as well. Right, but they always think that they've put in so much effort and they the the failure is to acknowledge how much luck.
00:31:59
Speaker
there is and sort of the way your life turns out. Like, do you really believe that your life is primarily dictated by all the effort you put in? The family was an uphill battle and I came out of it, dude, to bet on volleyball and podcast. So, dude, being in the American labor force for so long, seeing how fucking lazy and how useless people are often when they get into like an environment It's it's hard for me to listen to people point fingers about laziness in the US like, yeah, it's like, come on. And I'm guilty of it too. You know, I was pretty good. I'm pretty good at looking at ah sports statistics during work hours, shit like that, you know, like I have my I have my own weaknesses. But
00:32:46
Speaker
But I'm also not like criticizing people for being lazy. But it's like, come on, dude. Yeah, yeah there is there is a sense of privilege. But for every person that that came out of, not not for every person, but people that came out of privilege, there's a lot of people that were in a shitty situation, worked their way out of it.
00:33:02
Speaker
there were some yeah but most were uh handed some luck and just some circumstances that were favorable right there are some i mean i think what i really what really bothers me and i don't know why actually like is is the people clearly fucked up on the streets drug people on both sides people dealing it people using it and then those people trying to get close to me or my family really pisses me off. And and so in some way I must be blaming them for their addictions. Who do you think is to blame for like someone who's out on the streets crack addict? Is it their own decisions? Or like, who would you because we're blaming them if it's pissing us off that they're there, right? I don't know. That's too complex for just like a point of finger. Am I the piece of shit in that case? Or are they?
00:33:50
Speaker
Well, how far do you go back? Like, let's say we're talking about your, your classic 1980s crack head in, you know, and then you had a whole series of Ricky's mom and boys, i heard policies and racism that led to like just less opportunity and situations within the community that they found themselves in, in that era, uh, that led to, uh, viewing crack as an option, but you'll find plenty of, yeah, you'll find plenty of black,
00:34:18
Speaker
people will be like, I didn't fucking have to sell crack. You know, like they, that's a decision they made just cause we grew up in the hood. Didn't mean we had to make those decisions, you know? Maybe, yeah. And I don't know, mean everybody has a reason why they were. But the hypocrisy is like a lot of our own kids are, you know, white suburban communities are fucking experiment with drugs and shit. It's just the system is easier for them to get out of it and move on, you know?
00:34:46
Speaker
And that's a great point in terms of like, we talk a lot of shit about all the narcos, South America and wherever, Mexico, and the demand in the US is is what feels it all. Right, and Europe, yeah. Yeah, Europe. Western demand for drugs, we're sucking it down, dude. We're sucking it down like Mountain Dew. Yeah.
00:35:06
Speaker
So when somebody's a little ah like a little cracked out, they're definitely ah what feels like a safety issue there. So you see somebody who's definitely in ah and a weird state, you're kind of like, ah that ah could be an issue. personally I personally have never seen somebody on crack. I don't know what that, I mean, I probably have, but I couldn't like distinguish it. Like, oh, they're on crack versus they're high on on marijuana. I don't really know.
00:35:32
Speaker
I don't know if it's crack but you'll see people that are are crazy like first I mean there's ranges like you'll just see zombies like I see some people at the skate park we skate at that just look like you're just like oh which is like a heroin type thing as well you know we're here when they're not looking at through you but then yeah math people are kind of your your Just scratching. lot Yeah, just a lot of movement, weird movements and weird weird behavior and and walking back and forth quickly. and And then like, I don't know, I mean, there's, there is like, I don't know if it's mental health, but there's a lot, there's a lot of people here that you'll be, they'll be like having conversations in public and there's nobody around. I don't know if that's mental health or drug addiction. There was a guy the other day at Skip Park, he was walking around like collecting trash and jumping over fences.
00:36:19
Speaker
And I was like, why is this fucking guy here? I'm just sitting there with my kids skating, right? And I started to just develop this story in my head. Here's a piece of shit story. And I got to the point where like, if this guy comes close to Luca or me, I'm ah i'm ready to fucking go to blows with this guy.
00:36:37
Speaker
and And you would fucking jack him in two seconds. I mean, these guys can barely stand. It's like you wouldn't be a hero. I'm protected. I mean, the guy, you you one punch and he's just, you know, he could stand. he He was he was like, I know. But yeah, well, these guys can fight. No, but i there was no need that I'll kind of give away my story. There was no need for me to to feel this way. But I'm just looking at him because I was just kind of like, man, I'd like to take I like the fact that there's some oddballs at the skate park.
00:37:05
Speaker
Like we don't always need cracked out or or mentally ill guy. I walked around talking to himself and picking up trash and all. So he was like picking up trash. I have no idea why. But like going back and forth and moving these big bags of trash around. And I just got this story going on my head like, ah, fuck, here's this guy. So I'm like, if he fucks around with us, I'm i'm ready to go. So he walks right by us. He goes, hola, Papi. He's like, hey, what's up, man? He just says hi to me and then walks away. He goes and picks up some trash and takes a trash bag out to like the And I'm like, Oh God, I'm a piece of shit. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I get that though. Yeah. But I just had this story in my head and I got all ready to defend for nothing. And he was actually, it was weird behavior. He's like cleaning up the yeah like weird trash and stuff, but.
00:37:53
Speaker
but Maybe he was getting paid by whoever runs it. But like it's such an assault on your senses. like You have to make up a story to to be able to manage it. because like you're not goingnna I don't think most people are going to lean to, oh, I'm sure he's a great guy. Let's bring him over, you know share our sandwiches with him, and have a conversation. I mean, you just not many people lean to the right positive positive view of of tragic people.
00:38:16
Speaker
Yeah, and it was like, I mean, everyone was just kind of going about their business, which is a normal thing, the
Skate Parks: A Microcosm of Society
00:38:22
Speaker
skate park. Skaters get really into what they're doing, you know, they're kind of singularly focused and like, there could be a guy fucking shooting other people and they're like, um I got to land this new trick, you know? But everyone's just kind of going about their business when he's walking around talking to everyone, but talking to no one at the same time. And and I was just kind of like, why why here? Like, why does a skate park attract these fucking weirdos, you know?
00:38:45
Speaker
But anyways, he was just like, hey, what's up? And then I went, oh, why am I, why am I, why was I so ready to like think this guy is like out there? Cause he was like, I don't know. He was like complaining and he was like yelling at somebody across the street, like giving it like, Hey, you want some of this? Like he's kind of doing shit like that. And then he'd go back to pick up trash and like, so I don't know. I felt, I feel like I was the POS in that situation, but I'm also like, why are you here? But you know, I think there's a bit of, um, I don't know. You want to call it like a,
00:39:15
Speaker
Like we all, for some reason, people like to be around other people. It's like you, it's a little, a stretch to say like to be a part of a community, but there's something about like the skate park, there's people there, you know? And there's a convenience store across the street and there's a bus stop, right? like There's all this, it's a mecca for like fucked up people. It's got all the aspects, right? You can go buy a 40 ounce or a Costa Rican tall boy. You can catch a bus, you can buy weed, like it's got everything right there.
00:39:43
Speaker
So yeah, but those those folks are uh, they need to be around people. It's not like you can beg in the middle of a field in iowa No, but I just feel it sounds like what you're describing like there's some isolation in some of the homelessness in the us where people are like building their Tents along the river and like trying to like, you know ah Yeah, i've seen that too a little bit where people are like leave me alone But but give me but they always flock to the city centers to really get resources, but yeah but I think there's one thing we we should address is the idea of people being lazy. And I wonder if we're talking about like temporary homelessness. What is that definition? you know
00:40:23
Speaker
It's for just a short, like a period of time due to like job loss or divorce or domestic abuse. And I like these people that look like put together, I think are the target of the folks that think they're abusing the system or or the target of like your typical right wing personal responsibility types. Handouts. Get a fucking job. Yeah, get a job.
00:40:46
Speaker
Do you think these folks are actually lazy or they made a series of bad decisions that led them to this or circumstances? I mean, it's. And then the even the guy that you could go all that, like, who's laid out, like you said, wasted like something got him there, you know, like.
00:41:01
Speaker
But how many people were homeless after like ah Hurricane Katrina in Louisiana? How many people from that series of disasters there yeah had no other options? Yeah, you're in Hurricane Katrina and now it's my problem, right? It's like, come on, dude. Hurricane Helene is the latest one. I'm sure there are people. So there's that. But we'd love to help that. ah we I think in the US, we love that story and we and everybody gets in and Lowe's donates and shit.
00:41:31
Speaker
We love that one. right onces like but it let's say but Let's say you start spiraling mentally because of some things that happened to you and that was actually the cause. We don't like those people that linger. right yeah so it's a it's ah but it's the The real POS aspect and for me is just this my reaction of like it's they're trying to do something to me.
00:41:53
Speaker
but you know like that's That's what I don't like. and But I don't know if the solution is to just and buy everything that's for sale on the street, give everyone change, do it. like I don't know if that's reasonable.
Talent, Effort, and Charity in Street Performances
00:42:05
Speaker
Because a lot of people are selling shit here. I don't know if you if you have that in the US, like sunglasses or flags. you know like Let these beggars be business people. you know sell Sell something. Well, they are. They're selling their their sadness, essentially. That's deep, man.
00:42:21
Speaker
Yeah, that is deep. You've got people like, like but you also have people you also have people here juggling fire, fire sticks and juggling. I'm always down to give those people a couple of bucks, even though they're essentially what you call like a busker, street performer. Yeah. And sometimes they really suck. but Yeah. I'm the opposite of that for sort of like, if they're rundown people that aren't good at it, like if they're true buskers, I'll pitch in some money. but You'd like to see some talent out there in your performance? I mean, if you're going to run with it, baby, you better have some talent. Don't like sit there and I got seen some homeless like with the harmonica. like
00:42:58
Speaker
a a and um You're not getting any money from me, bro. In fact, I'll probably kick you in the leg. Find you find your calling, homeless guy. Find your talent first. Yeah. i i I do wanna like resolutions show up that comes out of this. I do wanna get back into throwing a few pizzas out to the public. I'm gonna do that. So I get to practice making pizza too. you know One of the issues I had is like at night, i couldn't it was hard for me to find homeless people.
00:43:29
Speaker
It seems like a pretty inefficient way to give, but that's up to you, bud. Let's get into that, Lance. There you go. Nice to see you again. You use my name. You use my name. I'm getting serious. Well, we're not, uh, we're in public with our names, aren't we? No, you never, you never use my name. I always say Matt. Ah, well, yeah, actually I think you mentioned that that's something that's starting to bother you. You're excessive use of my name, huh? I did. And then here I come with an L-bomb. Yep.
00:43:58
Speaker
Yeah, I'm okay with the performance. Like, but but is the performance better than the person just straight up asking for money or a sign you like a sign that with your life story and and the hardship you're facing? I have seen people just that sorry, I just thought of this. I have seen people that have had the same like a picture of this frail baby who's had who has some leukemia and that baby's had leukemia for like 15 years.
00:44:21
Speaker
And it's like, okay. And been a baby for 15 years straight. It's clearly stunning its growth. Like I, but even then I'm like, do I need to be like, you're not taking advantage of me? You know, in a way it's like, who probably cares? But right I think that's where I'm at. And I don't want to interact with any of those begging situations on the median when we're driving our car or wherever.
Finding Balance Between Distance and Support
00:44:45
Speaker
I think I just want to ignore all that. I just want to ignore all of that and give money straight to like,
00:44:51
Speaker
some of the ah providers of services for these people. So the food shelters and and other shelters for sleeping. So and that's what I'm I have done in the past, but I just need to be more consistent with it because you see it, you're exposed to it. And I think psychologically you need to have a response. One response is to criticize like the person and go, Oh, your story's bullshit or whatever. And for me, I think maybe the most efficient is Nope, every month I'm going to give some money to a place that actually provides a known helpful service. That's good. but But I mean, what they throw in one of those places down the street from your house, like it's all cool. That seems like a way to keep it like at arm's length to them a little bit.
00:45:31
Speaker
No, they're two right in the neighborhood, bud. And it's like, they're everywhere because of it. And I've like accepted it. I'm not going to interact on an individual basis with, with these folks, like mostly mostly psychologically, if I had some cash, I might give it to, but I don't want to sit there. This is the POS part. I think I want to solve is not sit there in my own head space, like trying to create a narrative for why I'm not giving or why I'm but thinking they're a scam artist. I just would rather give to.
00:45:58
Speaker
an organization. So you giving that you keeping them at arm's length and and not treating them as humans but giving money to like a shelter gives you gives you some inner inner like inner peace where you're like all I can I can walk by this guy this limbless guy this limbless Vietnam bet because I gave 50 bucks to the shelter down the street.
00:46:19
Speaker
Am I hearing you correctly Lance? Uh, yeah, let's be specific. Uh, no, I'm not, I'm not disparaging people as I walk by them. I'm just, it's not a place where I think I want to have those interactions and leave it up to the experts in a way to people that can organize. Uh, and, and what do you call it? Like just like a political party where you're pulling resources together to to create like a more lasting solution.
00:46:50
Speaker
Well, and the their one facility really close to our house actually has, has all the services. It's got like showers, it's got, and every day they can go in there and and clean up and they have food that they can take away. Would you ever a work one of those places? Like volunteer? I have worked the food line. How's that?
00:47:11
Speaker
It's pretty chaotic, honestly, depending on what you're doing, because some of the people are really limited and pretty volatile. Right. So you just you just have to kind of roll in there and it's like, get give me some more juice. Give me some more juice. I can only give you this much juice. And then you get the staff person that used to be homeless come over, make it the fuck out of here. Right.
00:47:35
Speaker
I always, anytime there's something scary, I always go to my African-American, uh, jive voice. So don't be offended by that. Anybody listening? You're, you're, but you're impersonating them in a sense of power and strength. Not a bad one. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, I don't know, dude, I just don't want to feel so, I don't want to feel like a POS.
Maintaining Respect and Humanity
00:47:57
Speaker
That's the whole goal of the show, right? Right. Yeah. Uh, I like, so I like the takeaway is.
00:48:02
Speaker
I'm not gonna, I i will, but I'm gonna try not to like, at least think that person is there to fucking bother me or take advantage of me. I like to get rid of that. Now there might be cases where someone's very aggressive and like, or even racially profiling, this gringo's got some money, but I'm just not gonna worry about it. um if i If I have something to give them, I'll give it to them. If not, I'll just say no, but maybe try to be like, but what's up, man? How are you?
00:48:30
Speaker
And would you ever consider having them do a sexual act to get money from you? ah
00:48:38
Speaker
No. Disgusting. Liar. No, it's like, like listen, Juanita, we both have needs. Here's the solution. I think we can both live with. Is that like the devil? Disgusting.
00:48:55
Speaker
Like if if i think you go, if you're taking advantage of someone sexually because they're in a they're in a ah a position of need. It's close, man. You'd have to be a seriously demented motherfucker to do that. Yeah. Really? Yeah. No, I haven't haven't thought about that. Now, some people say you're giving them a job, huh? You're getting them in the workforce. No, I don't. it'd be You have to be fucked up. Yeah. ah great Great place to end the show, actually. We're not that big of POSs. We'll end with that positive positive message. Don't offer your your body parts to me, homeless ladies, because I am above that. So one of the things, man, I wanted to address is like what basic respect
00:49:43
Speaker
should you give these people? And maybe this is where like you can give the most is whether or not you give money or not. Do you look these folks in the eye? Do you smile, provide some level of humanity? Like do you, do we have the psychological guts to do that? Or is that counterproductive? What are your thoughts on that one? It's like, where where do you put these people on the, on the, on the list of like telemarketers that call you or door to door salesmen where you're like, no, buy no, you know? And right.
00:50:12
Speaker
I do think you probably could do a lot of work just by treating them like humans. I think, right like where or someone that you would just go, if you saw someone that looked put together, you're like, hey, how's it going? Right? yeah Or you don't just go leave me alone. Like you really look at someone, normal person, go leave me alone. Right? but But homeless people are people asking you for something. You're immediately, you get, you immediately like shut it down. You're just like, no. So.
00:50:39
Speaker
right I have noticed too, I didn't think about but where I go. ah know no No, today I can't but but maybe some other time and and then that kind of like chills everybody out. But I just think, I think this is important because like all this self-help shit is like this big picture thing of why you're, what's bothering you. But all these little transactions, like you go to the intersection.
00:51:03
Speaker
and that you you pull up and so you have this interaction, you're like, ah, fuck, here, this guy comes, and then yeah I gotta deny him, so I feel like guilty, feel like shit, or I give him money and I feel like I got taken advantage of. And that all adds up to like, that's a little piece of the of the, that's a little drop of water in the bucket of either positivity or negativity in your life. And these little things are probably really important.
00:51:27
Speaker
Right? Yeah. And yeah and ah you treat someone like a human that's that with dignity, it's probably just as self-fulfilling, but also giving them a self, it's massaging their self-esteem as well as much as giving them anything. Yeah. So I guess I'll give what I give everybody else, which is a head nod or a, Hey. Cock comment. I'll give, you get the same. You get the same. How's your cock?
00:51:55
Speaker
This POS is produced by Matt Lance, engineered by Lance. Music by Soulja Unit. Thank you for listening. oldschool friends from non-defo startup podcast cause they feel i bored twenty nine listeners just ain't enough We're gonna go big if they