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Every Story Ever Special: July 2024
1.7k Plays3 months ago
Hope ya missed us, we're back! And we're ranking comic book stories, including a bunch of Batman and Spider-Man!
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Transcript
Introduction and Comic Ranking Overview
00:00:00
Speaker
attention to from our listeners of three comic book stories and then we are placing those stories on the list from best to worst comic book stories of all time. Hello everybody and welcome to the War Rocket Ajax. Every story ever special for July 2024.
00:00:43
Speaker
My name is Matt Wilson with me. as he always is on these specials is Chris Simms. Struggler in Chief right here, baby. That's right. To Struggler Advice Struggler are here to write comics for you. Struggle Buds. That's what we do on this show. You heard me from the past during the opening theme describing the purpose of this program. We take lists submitted by our listeners of comic book stories and we rank them on our giant list, ah which currently has 1,548 entries on it. That is approximately 10 years of ranking comics, this list. That's what that represents. Chris, would you like to
00:01:41
Speaker
give a rundown of the current state of the list? No, I would not. Okay. Because Matt, I do this a lot. And I feel like people have heard my commentary on it. I would be very curious to know how you would run down the current state of the list. Well, I said how many entries are on it. There are 1548. The Number one story on the list, as it has been for quite some time, is Spider-Man, if this be my destiny, slash the final chapter, ah the best comic book story ever by Stan Lee and Steve Ditko. The bottom of the list, as it has been from the very beginning, oh and Biscuit knows it,
00:02:39
Speaker
Biscuit. Biscuit doesn't like it. Biscuit ah didn't does not like hearing about it. His Identity Crisis ah by Brad me Meltzer and Rags Morales. It is the worst comic. It is almost certain at this point that it will never be ah surpassed. If that's the way you want to put it. I was talking to some friends ah yesterday who are ah birders. They are are are bird watchers and and bird people. I assume they have an every bird ever list. Yeah, but I would assume. Because what we do is normal. Yeah. It's not weird. No, I'm sure there are people who rank birds by how good they are. Yeah, exactly.
00:03:31
Speaker
Um, and I told them about how you and I have had discussions here on the show where we've been like, what if we just, what if we just gave up on comics and just got into birds?
00:03:47
Speaker
And they were like, well, it's, you know, it's nice to go look at birds. And I'm like, yeah, I mean, like, like there's probably you've never looked at a bird and thought, I hate that bird so much that it ruined other birds for me. Probably. I'm sure there are birds that bird people think are not ah appealing to look at. Probably.
00:04:19
Speaker
some real uggos out there. Yeah, but I doubt it's I doubt it is as bad as this ruined other birds for me. yeah Yeah, I doubt it's like I will never go read stories from the satellite era of birds again. Because I can't do that without thinking of this one really shitty bird that is getting a 20th anniversary edition next year. God. Nobody buy it. Nobody, nobody. Nobody buy it. Anyway, that's the current state of the list. And we're going to add some more to it. Now, you may have noticed ah that we didn't do a June every story ever special. The reason for that is that Chris had COVID. So that was just a sick day. That was just a sick day every story ever special.
Chris's Health Update and Comic Reviews
00:05:14
Speaker
This one might be a little longer.
00:05:17
Speaker
then others maybe will accrue time that will lead, that will make up for the June special, but we're not gonna record like a makeup show. That just didn't happen. Or, or, or, or maybe, Matt, maybe, think think about this, maybe it goes a little shorter.
00:05:37
Speaker
Okay, and your reasoning for that is? That I wanna go to bed. Okay, but we promised people who give us money. That's that's true. But I wish I wish i had a counter argument to that one. All right, let's, let's get into our first list here. ah This list is from Jolene. Hey, I hope everybody sent in some like, here's some some good to great comics for Chris and Matt to talk about because I know Chris has been having a rough time.
00:06:15
Speaker
So we're going to talk if we're going to do some nice ones. Uh, well, this is definitely an interesting list from Jolene, uh, which is, uh, Jolene saying, uh, she's back on her bullshit with submitting at least one nineties Catwoman story. Jolene one day you'll learn. Well, this one's interesting though. It is Catwoman one million. The story is called nine million lives. That is interesting, because I definitely have read that, because I have read all of DC in one million, ok even the parts that are bad. Let me see if I can jog your memory here, Chris. I know that Catwoman's got like... yeah It's definitely drawn by the talent. It's definitely drawn by the talent, yes.
00:07:04
Speaker
ah Catwoman in one million has like a weird... Like she's got like cyber hair. She's got like cyber dreads. Yes. I didn't want to say dreads because I just they honor, but that's what they are. They're cyber dreads. Yeah. They're like predator braids. She does. I'm looking at her now. It is. What if it is? What if Jim Ballant designed the predator is what it is. What if the predator was a real sexy lady?
00:07:37
Speaker
but was still the Predator? Yes. And I've never read this issue. I read the DC One Million event and some tie-ins, but not all of them. So I have not i not read this issue. But from the look of it, this is Catwoman facing off against every conceivable sci-fi cliche.
00:08:06
Speaker
She fights an alien from the movie Alien in just the last page. and Okay, okay. there is i mean There's a clone Batman. There is a robot Robin. Well, there was ah there was a robot Robin in DC One Million. The Robin One Million, Robin the Toy Wonder, is a robot. Oh, right. He was a robot, yes. yeah ah she fights a She fights some big, Batman-looking robots. There's like a cyborg girl. ah the The cyborg girl is is actually very funny. and but I gotta give this a credit. Story and art by Jim Ballant, by the way. Dialogue with dialogue by Devin Grayson. devin grayson yeah
00:08:57
Speaker
ah the ah the the The lady with the ah like cybernetic organism, the cybernorg controlling her, ah is ventriloquist one million. Which is a pretty, that's a pretty good bit.
00:09:19
Speaker
That she's a human being controlled by ah so ah by ah a robot. By a robot, yeah. That is an alien from the movie Alien. It's fully the Alien from the movie Alien, and it's just on one page. Yeah. She she dispatches the Alien from the movie Alien in one page.
00:09:44
Speaker
Yeah. Just takes him out. Chris, do you feel comfortable ranking this? Yeah, I can rank this. Okay. The Alien, by the way, that's Killer Croc 1 million. Oh, okay. Okay. Which doesn't really have a great understanding of what a crocodile is. In all fairness, Killer Croc in general is not a great understanding of what a crocodile is. Yeah, but like the deal with the DC 1 million stuff is like, it's all the DC characters just, you know, in the 853rd century, so there's like a little bit of, like a little bit of sci-fi element to them. It's not like it's all the DC characters, but they're all just fucked up and weird.
00:10:28
Speaker
Sure. Like this is just this is just an alien from the movie Alien. I mean it's not it's not as much of just an alien from the movie Alien as the brood. Right. Which are shameless. Or what Kitty Pride fought that one time that was not the brood? Not the brood but it was boy Chris Claremont must have loved Alien.
00:10:58
Speaker
I put that at the feet of the mont. I guess it could be Dave Cockrum, who was really into Alien. To be fair, lots of writers in genre fiction loved the movie Alien. Yeah, I'm gonna guess that like most people who were like really into sci-fi in the 70s really loved Alien. Yeah, the the creators of the video game Contra also loved the movie Alien. The Alien War. The Alien War, that's right, that's right. Yeah.
00:11:28
Speaker
Okay, give me give me give me a give me a ranking for a Catwoman 1 million.
00:11:37
Speaker
Here's the thing about Catwoman 1 million. It's kind of like, it's in premise at least.
00:11:47
Speaker
Having written a few tie-ins to things, this is kind of like the tie-in, like kind of what you want to do with a tie-in, right? Like, I don't feel like you're really getting, Catwoman, I don't know if Grant and the talent had a sit-down meeting to discuss how this would feed into the larger arc of DC One Million. And it doesn't. As you would see in like, Starman or JLA. Right. From what I can tell, it life does not feed into it at all. Yeah. So this is, you know, Catwoman, like, here's what we know about Batman 1 million. He has a like, Pluto is a planet sized Arkham Asylum for all of the solar system's most dangerous criminals. So the premise of this is that Catwoman has to escape from from planet Arkham Asylum. Which is pretty cool. Sure.
00:12:48
Speaker
I would have called this issue Escape from Planet Arkham if it was me, but you know, it wasn't. It was Jim Ballon and Devin Grayson. I was at the time 16. oh
00:13:02
Speaker
This is in premise, perfectly like first idea, best idea. In execution, it's fine.
00:13:18
Speaker
You know, Ventriloquist 1 million, that's a pretty solid idea. Killer Croc 1 million, that's not... oh that's That's Jim Ballant, that's the talent, just wanting to draw an alien from the movie Alien. I wonder if it was Ballant or Grayson who like... Like, did Jim Ballant just draw an alien from the movie Alien? on that last page and Devin Grayson came in and she was like, oh, okay, so so that'll be like the gag hero is that that'll be Killer Croc. Or was it, was Jim like making notes in the margins? Or did Devin Grayson, well, Devin Grayson didn't write a script first, right? because No, she did a dialogue. She did a dialogue. It was just dialogue. So i my thought is like, it's like,
00:14:13
Speaker
Jim Ballant's like, I want to draw an alien from the movie Alien. How can we make that fit? And Devin Gray is like, uh, uh, uh, I guess we make it Killer Crocs.
00:14:31
Speaker
Could be. I was originally going to say that Devin Grayson wrote that it was killer croc, like some kind of futuristic alien or futuristic one million killer croc. And then Jim Ballant just drew an alien from alien. Yeah, but that's obviously not what happened. That's obviously not what happened because that was not the the chain of. The chain of command, chain chain of creativity, Calum and one million chain of command. There are four bad beds! Give me a number.
00:15:09
Speaker
let's let's like There's nothing else we could say about this issue. Yeah, I mean look, it's in it I will say it is among the better Jim Ballant and the better Devin Grayson comics I've read in my life. I'll say that. But I think that, I don't think that gets it. I don't think that gets it into the into the triples. I think this is definitely in the quads. Probably still in the quad ditch, yeah. the That's what we call it here in the future, of the quad ditch. Yeah. ah At number 1100, we have Marvel Apes, which I think is better than this because Marvel Apes has a twist. That's true. It did does. And if you don't know what the twist to Marvel Apes is,
00:15:59
Speaker
you could You could guess for a year and not figure out what the twist was for Marvel Apes. I believe we talked about that when we ranked Marvel Apes. i'm sure I'm sure we did. I'm sure we have mentioned it several times on this show, but boy, if you missed it and you don't know, prepare to be delighted. oh Now, at un at number 11 of three, we have Uncanny X-Men 153, Kitty's fairy tale, ah which does not have an alien from the movie Alien. It does have a dragon in it.
00:16:36
Speaker
I think that's that's better. um Moving down to 1200. Ultimate Marvel Team-Up Punisher, Daredevil Spider-Man. That's not as good as this. Okay, so so somewhere in the, maybe the lower 1100s. Yeah. I'm going to say, I'm going to say better than X 23 target X, but not as good as Avengers late night at the superstars. All right. What number, what number? That'll be the new number 1176. All right. The new one number 1176 is cat woman number 1 million.
00:17:16
Speaker
Uh, and it's called 9 million lives.
00:17:24
Speaker
There we go.
Exploring Batman Stories
00:17:25
Speaker
Next on Jolene's list is Batman the Spirit by Darwin Cook and that other guy. That other guy is Jeff Loeb. I don't think I read that. I feel like I must have. i i mean i i i That period of time where DC had the spirit and they they They were going to do that like, kind of like a pulp imprint because they had, I think they had the shadow of the spirit, maybe a couple of others. And it just like didn't click. That was a weird time. Those were weird books. I think it is probably incredibly damning that I almost certainly read this comic with art by Darwin Cook and Jay Bone.
00:18:23
Speaker
And I don't remember a fucking thing about it. Yeah. I'm looking at it now. And like, certainly I, I've read this at the time. I remember not tell you anything about it. Yeah, I remember. Here's what I remember. Looking through it now. I remember thinking as I was reading it, that it had the exact plot of the Batman the Animated Series episode Joker's Favor.
00:19:03
Speaker
The very good episode, first appearance of Harley Quinn. Very good episode, yeah. Great music. i can I can remember the music from the episode Joker's Favor. I'll i'll know it for the rest of my life. Is that, did that kind of like introduce the Joker leitmotif, the... to to do to Yes. to to to to but But it also, it also had its own music for the guy that like cuts the Joker off in traffic and the Joker's like, someday you're gonna do me a favor. ah Where it was like, it, for lack of a better way of putting it, the music kind of sounds like farts. Where it's like,
00:19:49
Speaker
but my a big but by ah But there's like this like big tuba sound in with it anyway ah I don't think we can rank this I know we have almost definitely both read it and I can't remember a fucking thing. Yeah, I I Mean jeez, what was this? It's a good question I would have to say, if I if i were guessing... 2010? I think it has to be earlier than that. Let's see. Let me see if I can find a date. 2007. 2007. Okay. Wow. The worst year of... One of the worst years of comics. Late 2000s.
00:20:43
Speaker
and Nothing touches 2005 to 2006, but late 2000s were... That was a rough time, bud. I mean, this is better than a lot of that bad stuff, but it's... forgettable. And that is that is a travesty for a comic that has art that looks like this. That's this beautiful... Man. Okay. I think we gotta skip it. Finally on Jolene's list is Batman Incorporated Gotham's Most Wanted. Okay, which which arc of Batman Incorporated is that? Let's see.
00:21:27
Speaker
um
00:21:30
Speaker
Or is that is that the 2021 series? That is ah Batman Incorporated from 2013. ah issues 7 to 13. It's volume 2 of Batman Incorporated. Okay, so that's the last arc of, that's the Leviathan arc? That's, yes, yes, yes, yes. Have we not ranked that? I swear to God we've ranked that. I don't think we have. We haven't ranked a lot of Batman Incorporated weirdly enough. What a, what a weird. All right, we, we ranked
00:22:09
Speaker
Number 11 with Batman Japan. Okay. And that's the, that's the issue that's ah like Chris Burnham writes it as a fill-in. Yes. And we ranked internet 3.0. That issue's bad. That issue's bad. And I, I, that's all that's coming up when I search Batman Inc. and Wow. it's Incredible. Although I thought we ranked the last story too. I, although I, maybe we only talked about that for Thursday Night Raw? Maybe. Maybe. It must have been. It must have been Thursday Night Raw, because I know we've talked about it, and I know we've talked about it recently. Yeah. um This is, I mean, there's a lot of good stuff in here. oh I love Burnham. I believe this was Burnham's idea of putting a giant quarter in the lobby of Wayne Enterprises. That's fucking funny. Oh, yeah, this is, this is
00:23:08
Speaker
This is the end of Batman Incorporated. Yeah, this is this is it. This is it. oh This has the Damien getting stabbed and and that weird baby head guy. The weird baby head guy, yeah. ah Batman fighting that guy.
00:23:32
Speaker
oh and isia It's all about, it's it's Bruce coming back after ah Like I remember the whole thing about like I guess Bruce had been back for a little while, but there's like a little revisiting of The dick and Damien Batman and Robin their time as Batman and Robin like right right at the end who um Like it's good, but it's not as good as you want it to be It's It's not it's a like satisfying conclusion
00:24:08
Speaker
Yeah, ah we definitely talked about Batman injecting himself with man-bad juice. That's what we talked about. That was on Thursday Night Raw. That was on Thursday Night Raw, yeah.
00:24:18
Speaker
ah Yeah. It's got some good stuff. It is not what you want it to be. yeah I feel like that's for as much as I love Morrison's run on Batman. and almost everything about it. I do feel like it, the ending of the Leviathan stuff is the kind of weirdest bit of the whole thing. Aside from Internet 2.0. Well, it wasn't weird. It was just bad. It was just fair.
00:24:54
Speaker
Like there's good stuff in here. Like, like Batcowl and all of that.
00:25:03
Speaker
It's just not, I feel for for like the conclusion of the entire Morrison Batman run, it's it's disappointing. Yeah. And does this have the bit where Kathy Kane shows up and just fucking shoots Talia? Yes. And then Batman's like, whoa, Kathy Kane's like, yeah, man, so it's got two people in the face and then she leaves. And then Kathy Kane leaves never to be seen again. Yes. Yeah. That's exactly what happens. That's weird. Yes. Because, well, it's definitely like a rushed ending to the series, right?
00:25:45
Speaker
Is it though? It's what it feels like. I mean, maybe it is. Maybe it's not. I don't know. It's hard to tell if it is though. Cause I don't like maybe DC at this time was kind of a kind of weird, right? Because this was a year. Well, it was, it was no, was Batman Inca new 52 launch title? It was not. Okay. Well,
00:26:15
Speaker
are It was not. It it started back in 2012. So it was it was weirdly not a launch title. It was not one of the 52 books. It was a replacement book after the first couple of books got cancelled. But the but the first Batman Inc. started in 2011. Correct. So that ended because the New 52, because this was was very much a like a continuation thing, where like, volume two of Batman incorporated just kind of like picks right up where it left off. New 52 be damned. Well, New 52 Batman only sort of kind of got rebooted to begin with, right? Yeah.
00:27:06
Speaker
Like, but I think the idea was they wanted to not draw attention away from the new 52 launch books, which were detective and Batman, isn the Snyder Batman. And so they didn't continue Batman, Inc. Cause the feeling was that that was going to like, I think the feeling was that that was going to muddle up things too much with the launch of the new 52. Then some books, some new 52 books got canceled and they were like, okay, Grant, now you can, now you can finish Batman. So this would have been, I know that the first new 52 books got canceled eight months in. Yes. So this must have been right when that started. I think it had to be cause cause they were also still at this point very much invested in
00:28:06
Speaker
having a line of 52 comics. For some reason. For some reason, yeah. What a weird time. What what a weird time, yeah. that ah Let's see. DC Comics in 2011 to like 20... DC Comics from 2011 to Rebirth 2016. That's like WCW in 2001. It's... God, you ain't kidding. It is the Russo era of WCW. That DC logo might as well be that WCW thing that looked like a spaceship. the The worst logo I think I've ever seen.
00:28:50
Speaker
It took me months before I knew that that said WCW. Oh, the WCW. I thought you were talking about ah the the DC swirl. No, the DC swirl was fine. Hey, yeah hey Matt. You hear the bullets coming back? Just for the movies. They should just bring back the bullet. They should just bring back the bullet. I agree. Don't put the bullet on those movies and then not use it on everything else. Maybe they will. i Maybe they will. but The announcement was that it's for the movies, so I don't know. Anywho, Batman Inc. volume two started in May of 2012. So that is that is correct. That's eight months after the new 52 launched.
00:29:41
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. So this replaced OMAC. More or less, yeah. Or Black Hawk? whichever one, whichever one of those first run of, uh,
00:29:57
Speaker
first run of do 50 canceled new 52 books. All I want to do now is, is like go through metaphorically who's who Jeff Johns is Vince Russo. Obviously, which is weird because Dan DeGio is the one who sounds like Vince Russo.
00:30:19
Speaker
Uh, Dan de Deo is Eric Bischoff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think- Matt, we're we're on to something, buddy. Jim Lee is Jim Hurd. I'll have to think further. Who's, who's Mike Awesome of the New York City?
00:30:43
Speaker
I feel like it's kinda Grant, right?
00:30:49
Speaker
I mean, Mike also get like unfairly fired. Well, it might make awesome. It's probably not great because Grant Grant's probably Grant's probably staying.
00:31:05
Speaker
Right. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Because because Grant did good work and is is going to be fine. I don't want to say Grant's Rick for obvious reasons, but you know, he's one of them. But like, i'm I'm trying to think of like, who's the, who's the person that was like, how can you mess this up this badly? That you took Mike Awesome, six foot six, jacked a killer. I know who it is. I know who, I know who Mike Awesome is. Okay. Jeff Flamere.
00:31:44
Speaker
that That's a good one, bud. I think you nailed it. Because Jeff Lemire had all this, like, indie cred and comes in and does some big books, Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and they're not bad, but they don't take off the way they should.
00:32:06
Speaker
Yeah. Jeff Lemire never quite got to, like, that 70s guy, Mike Awesome status. All right, I am looking at the list. This is definitely- Gales bones, hurricane helms. Anyway, yeah. ah That's complimentary, by the way, in case anybody doesn't know. That's complimentary. ah Hurricane helms who famously hit Buff Bagwell with a frozen water bottle and messed up his match with Booker T, dooming WCW.
00:32:47
Speaker
Yeah, that's what did it. That's what did it. That's what did it. Uh, okay. This is better than Internet 3.0. Hang on, hang on. Matt, I'm sorry. You brought him up. Who's Booker T? Who came out of it better? Who came out of it better? Scott Snyder. Damn. Damn. He is.
00:33:09
Speaker
you You got it, dude. Yeah. You're good at this. Okay, we gotta move on. I'm sorry. I won't drag us back to this. That's fascinating. I think i think this this is definitely better than Internet 3.0. I don't know that it's better than a bird in the hand. Which we have at 1008. Probably not.
00:33:34
Speaker
like
00:33:38
Speaker
this is not This is not Grant's Best Work. It's not Grant's Best Work. There's good stuff in it. There's good stuff in it. It doesn't it doesn't come together. like Grant's endings of runs are always really fascinating. They're also almost always the worst part of the run. Yeah, but not if you look at JLA World War III. Sure. Where it's like a beautiful culmination of everything.
00:34:09
Speaker
Here comes tomorrow is kind of the last part of a new or kind of the worst part of new X-Men. Yeah. It's JLA might be the only time Grant really stuck the landing on a long run. I mean, Animal Man is good. Animal Man is good. You don't want to hear about me, Cat Foxy.
00:34:32
Speaker
ah i think Here's what I think is is hard for Grant to do. Because Animal Man kind of ended and it's not... Grant is not great at the handoff. No, I've mentioned this before. like Grant's worst trait as a like writer in a shared universe is that they do not leave things in a state where anyone else can come on and do anything. the thing is What are you supposed to do with the X-Men after new X-Men? You could. You could come on Batman after Batman, Inc., where there are a bunch of clone damians and but Batman's taking man-bat juice and all of that stuff and do good stuff with it.
00:35:26
Speaker
just nobody did until way later, right? That's the thing about Grant. Whoever comes immediately after them uses almost nothing yeah of theirs. Yeah, nobody wants to pick it up. But like nobody wants to pick up the good stuff. Nobody wants to like deal with any of the the maybe not so good stuff. But like 10 years later, they're using it. You know? Yeah. Well, that's because 10 years later you get a bunch of people who were really big fans of Grant Morrison. Yeah. Like Jason Aaron picks up new X-Men when he finally does Wolverine and the X-Men, you know? Yeah. Or, you know, Steve Orlando or or Jed McKay or like any of these, ah any of these creators who are, I think, you know, to put it bluntly, a little closer to our age. are Yes. Yes. Yes.
00:36:27
Speaker
the gang that came up in the 90s instead of coming up in the 80s. Right.
00:36:34
Speaker
Let me see. I'm trying to find the spot for this. I mean, it's not as good as Wild Dog. It's not as good as Wild Dog. Fair. I'll tell you what, I like Wild Dog a lot. If Chris Burnham had drawn Wild Dog, it'd be a top 10 book. It's not as good as... Well, is it as good as npr npr Empire? Empire happened like a year ago, and I'm having trouble remembering details of Empire. It happened more than a year ago. It was... See, that's a detail I've lost, Matt. It was fine. It was a fine Marvel crossover.
00:37:15
Speaker
ah
00:37:19
Speaker
It's better than that story where a Spider-Man goes to California, though. There we have it, number 1043. I don't know, that one's pretty fun. It's pretty fun, but this is better than that. All right. Is it better than the first appearance of the Frightful Four? Absolutely. It is. Yes. Then I would also put it above impure. Okay, but it is not as good as Dark Cybertron. All right, then it's the new number 1041.
00:37:49
Speaker
It's one of the lower ranked Graham Morrison comics we have. ah Well, that's that's how it goes. What's the name of this arc? Gotham's Most Wanted. It's numbers 9 through 13 minus number 10.
00:38:09
Speaker
Number 11. Number 11 was the Batman of... Yes, it was. Okay. Uh, Jolene has a backup for us, which is itself a backup, but Diamondback backup that runs through Captain America 9, 396 through 410.
00:38:31
Speaker
Oh, that's good. That's where she, she joins bad girls incorporated. Oh, is that not the, is that not the, the origin story with her in crossbones? I think it's all of it. Okay. Uh, I think those backups include all of that. The crossbones stuff is not good. It's pretty rough. The crossbones stuff, bad actually. It's cru stuff not really what anybody wanted from Diamondback, Mark.
00:39:12
Speaker
Just wanted her to have cool hair and be cool. Just wanted her to have a good time.
00:39:19
Speaker
And ah she does not have a good time. She's not a good time, but like all of the, like, all of the like present day stuff of her, like, you know, getting trained by crossbones and like every second of it being like, as soon as he drops his guard, I'm going to fucking murder him is great. So yes, this is inclusive of all of those diamond back backups. some of which focus on bad girls incorporated, some of which are like the origin stuff. Right on, right on. Mixed bag, mixed bag. Definite mixed bag, yeah. oh I mean, I feel like we have discussed those at length. We sure we sure have, so we can just rank. Yeah, mixed bag, I do love diamond bag.
00:40:17
Speaker
She gets that worst costume, but the worst costume does have a jacket. It does have a jacket, yeah. And that that's the costume she wears when ah when she kills Snapdragon, right? Yeah, man. I feel like Bad Girls, Inc. never actually did anything. They didn't. They didn't. yeah like Because almost died. Well, she did die. and was revived when Snapdragon drowned her. And then she was like, I can't be in Get Back Girl's Ink anymore. Yeah. Diamondback, when Diamondback had cool hair and that cool costume,
00:41:09
Speaker
that that was that' that's prime Diamondback. That's priming back. That's Prime and Back, yeah. It's weird that there's just like another dude in the Marvel Universe named Diamondback. Isn't it? And he's in the Serpent Society. Right? He's not in the Serpent Society.
00:41:31
Speaker
Okay. I don't know why I thought he was. Well, because Diamondback's in the Serpent Society. Oh, right. This is the Diamondback defies the cage. The other Diamondback, that's right. Yes. Willis Striker yeah is the other Diamondback. I don't know why I thought he was in the Serpent Society too, because his name is also a snake name. Yes. Okay. Specifically, it's Diamondback. Yeah. Okay. Hold on a second. Yes. Okay. Some of the stuff with crossbones is real bad.
00:42:04
Speaker
But there's also that bit where she like gets a big cinder block and she's going to crush his head.
00:42:12
Speaker
That's pretty dope. That's pretty good. She doesn't do it, but she's she's gonna. Crossbones is such a great character. Cause he's such a piece of shit. He's like, there's nothing good about him. He is fully
00:42:35
Speaker
Like, he believes nothing, right? Yeah, except I mean... He believes in anything, it's the Red Skull, but it's not like he's... Here's the weird thing about Crossbones. Crossbones is less of a Nazi than just a guy who's really into the Red Skull. But the thing is, like i don't he would turn on the Red Skull in a minute if he could make some some money. you know Yeah, but there's that whole thing where he like gets really like sad when the Red Skulls like auditioning new dudes for the skeleton crew Yeah, oh But is it but is that because He feels bad he actually feels bad or is that's his meal ticket yeah going away, you know, I don't know man He's very a moral. He's very a moral. Yes Fucking love crossbones. He's such an asshole. I
00:43:33
Speaker
I would say that those Diamondback backups are... They reach the level of pretty good. I would i would maybe put them under mixed bag. Sure, sure. ah Like, i would I would be looking... I would be looking maybe in the 1200s. At 1302, we have Danger Girl number one through four, which are not though those Those issues are a story in the academic sense. in They do depict events. Webster's dictionary defines a story as. Yeah. Yeah. ah So I think it's probably better than those. But it's not better than Bloodstone, which is at 1279. Okay. That's...
00:44:32
Speaker
That's a range we can look in. Hang on, Matt. We have Danger Girl at 1283 and Danger Girl 1-4 at 1302.
00:44:46
Speaker
Oh. I don't know how we did that. Well, the 1-4 is a more recent list. and But but da the Danger Girl ranking is the whole series? Danger ranking was the whole series and that would have been ah before 2020. Okay. Then we're going to drop one through four. yeah just from I think we should drop. I think we should drop the higher ranking. Well, then we got, let's change one through four to the whole series. Cause it never gets any better or worse. That's true. That's true. So, okay. We're deleting. the delay roll one through but You know what? Let's just, let's not delete it. Let's just put the diamond back backups 1283.
00:45:31
Speaker
Fine, fine. Above action comics annual number one skeeter? Yes. Below Wolverine origin? Yes. Another mixed bag.
00:45:47
Speaker
Uh, okay. I'm just going to put in diamond backpackers from Grunwald cap because they are not in every issue.
00:46:01
Speaker
So we'll just know what that means. I'm reading a note in my notes column. So 1302 is now all of Danger Girl, not Danger Girl one through four. Yes. And 1283 is the diamond back backups from the Grunwald cap. Okay. That is, that is that list from Jolene. Thank you, Jolene for that list.
Fables and Other Comic Highlights
00:46:26
Speaker
Our next list is from Scott Hazelwood.
00:46:33
Speaker
The list is starts with Fables Volume 6, Homelands. I don't want to talk about Fables. Let's see. I've definitely read this. Yeah, it's the one where they go back and and and retake over the the the Fables lands. and ah no I don't know if this is the part where Bill William talks about how much he loves Israel. or you know, in a weird conservative way, or if that's a ah different part. I don't know. oh Geppetto is bad. Geppetto is bad. Is there anything funnier than Bill William being like fables in the public domain? It was so fucking funny. It is still so fucking funny. Yeah. Yeah. But that that was in the public domain. like That's that's why you mean why you got to do it.
00:47:33
Speaker
Well, the those those characters were in the public domain. and Yeah, man. The Fables versions are copyrighted, I assume. ah Not anymore. Not anymore, baby. Oh, they still are. Oh, yeah. No, I think i think ah Jack Warner would have ah some words for me if I tried to print a new printing of Fables. The funny thing about it is like it's exactly like, I mean, look, I am not the kind of person who will be like, the funniest show is the office. But there is some funny shit in the office. And one of the funniest things in that show is when Michael Scott is told that he has to declare bankruptcy and he just goes, I declare bankruptcy, like verbally. That's what Bill Willingham did.
00:48:24
Speaker
He declared Fables public domain like Michael Scott declared bankruptcy. This is a genuine question because I, I don't, I try to avoid taking in, uh, Bill Willingham ideas through my eyes if I can. Sure. ah So I didn't go looking it up. Did Buckingham have anything to say about this one? Good question. I, I don't know, but, uh, okay. here's Here's where I'm at with us. I don't remember the Israel content of this because I remember reading fables and just like kind of blissfully being ignorant of any kind of real world allegory that Bill L. Willingham was trying to make. I mean, that's wild because there is a scene where Bigby Wolf literally says, you know what I like? Israel. Yeah, yeah. i That one you can't, you can't ignore. But um largely,
00:49:25
Speaker
any sort of conservative politics that were being espoused in the series, I just totally ignored. Fair. The Homeland story, seriously, I don't think Fables ever got any better. Do you mean that was the best or do you mean that was the turning point? I mean, that was the best. I mean, it it stayed fairly good up until the Geppetto stuff, the like adversary fighting the adversary. And then when it tried to keep going after that, it like went right off a fucking cliff. It is shocking that that book continued after that, because that's such a natural endpoint. Yeah, it's it's had to be I can only imagine that it was like, well, it's successful. Let's keep doing it. Yeah. But there was no
00:50:24
Speaker
there was nothing to do. Like, it's like, Oh, we're gonna create a new villain. Okay. Um, but that story, to me is the best fables ever was because in it, boy blue, a character who you had only seen kind of like, in the background,
00:50:50
Speaker
not being a badass is now a badass. And he has the Vorpal Blade, and it goes snicker stack. That sounds pretty good. Yeah, shit's good. For all of, for all of my political differences with Bill Willingham, and for all that Bill Willingham has written some quite bad comics. Yeah. um Like, there is a you know i think it was I think it was Chris Roberson who was like, yeah, we we disagree on everything but the stuff that doesn't matter, which is superheroes in common yeah and And I feel like there is a a base like
00:51:38
Speaker
Not to sound even ruder than I would be like outright insulting him, but like there is a baseline level of competence to his writing, generally. He has some good ideas. He executes them well at certain parts. He is an exhausting creator to talk about. Absolutely. But for better or worse, the guide knows how to craft a story. Yeah. If he doesn't get in his own fucking way, which he does all the time. All the time. He can craft a good story. And I feel like Homelands is like, it's the big reveal of Geppetto. Boy Blue gets to be a badass. The the the the whole thing with like Pinocchio ah becoming a real boy happens.
00:52:35
Speaker
like
00:52:38
Speaker
it's the start of things really starting to gel and come together in that book. Also, Mark Buckingham draws the absolute hell out of it. I was gonna say, yeah, it's like, Mark Buckingham, whose politics I am blissfully and blessedly unaware of, ah does, is a fucking phenomenal artist. Like, he's, he's, he's he does a, like,
00:53:04
Speaker
he does all this shit in the margins. It's like Sergio Aragona style margin stuff that is just phenomenal. Yeah. Yeah. Like his, his like the page boarder stuff that he does is incredible. Honestly, like, yeah I don't know, man. It's just like, I'm probably never going to read it again. And, and, Fair enough. It's- But I'm also not gonna like, I'm also not gonna sit here and act like I didn't enjoy it when I read it the first time. I did. It's comics 20 years ago that should stay in 20 years ago. Yeah, it's just like exhausting to talk about. And it's exhausting to talk about and to think about. But there are stories in it that are very good. And this is probably the best of them.
00:53:58
Speaker
Like, would I tell anybody to go back and read it now? Fuck no. Yeah. But like, the story where Boy Blue goes back to the homelands and finds out who the adversary is and is a badass is, uh, good. Yeah, that was pretty good. Yeah.
00:54:24
Speaker
I guess.
00:54:28
Speaker
Like, I don't think it's like that. Do you remember? It is 34 to 41. 38 to to 41. Something like that. 41 is the end for sure. It's, it starts in 36. So it's 36 to 41. What that book ran for like another hundred issues. It sure did, man. Wild. And no, it ran for 120 more issues. If you can't believe it. And they're talking about bringing it back? Well, it's gonna be like ah like a TV show, right? They did bring it back. So there's like 150,
00:55:17
Speaker
it came back as a black label book, but I ain't read any of those. Say, some Black Label books are good. Some Black Label books are good. That's the Tampa book that I wrote i was talking about last week, because that's a Black Label book. Yeah. ah I think the the original series ended with 150, and then it came back like a year ago, maybe, two years ago.
00:55:49
Speaker
So we can say definitively that the original run of Fables is five issues worse than the original run of G.I. Joe. I think we can definitively say that, yes. And that Larry Hommo will always be better than Bill William. Man, they brought back... Mark Willingham came back, though. Still good. Still good. Anyway... Matt, I'm gonna let you... I'm gonna let you handle this one. I'm gonna let you rank it. Alright. I think... Okay.
00:56:20
Speaker
I think this... let's see... This ain't better than Strange Volume 3.
00:56:38
Speaker
Is it better than the Jed McKay Black Hat series? No! No. Let me go down to 500.
00:56:51
Speaker
And I'd better in Seven Soldiers, Shining Knight.
00:56:56
Speaker
Five-fiftieth Zodiac Star Force. You're looking... I told you I would let you rank it. I am just providing commentary on what you're doing. You're looking a lot higher than I thought. I mean, it's good. It's good. i but I'm not gonna rank any other Fables thing higher than this. Yeah, that's fair. and So...
00:57:18
Speaker
um It's not as good as Marvel marvel Boy, that's at $5.98. Oh, it's damn sure not as good as Marvel Boy. It doesn't have Hexis Living Corporation in it, Matt. That's true. our but Bill William would be out here being like, Hexis Living Corporation should vote. Hexis Living Corporation are people, my pal, my friend. ah Okay.
00:57:51
Speaker
I'm going to say this goes at number 801 under Chester 5000 and above an Ogloff strip. Well, I got to say that'll, that'll give you some damn tonal with Lash. Yeah. Read those three back to back.
00:58:19
Speaker
All right, Fables Homelands is the new number 801. That is numbers 36 to 41. And no other Fables story is gonna go higher than that. I think we may have- The Christmas story's pretty good. i like I like the Fables idea of how Santa works. I will say that. Oh, we have Fables volume one at 388. So I guess that's a lot better. but That might be that might have to be the second annual maximum carnage ah Reevaluation that story is a fun murder mystery. I have it is a fun murder mystery. We do love a fun murder mystery ah Next on Scott's list is do a powerbomb boy Boy was not exhausting to talk about Do a powerbomb
00:59:18
Speaker
It's hard, comics, not many comics are better than Do a Power Bomb. I will actually- Who actually would give you an exact number of comics that are better than Do a Power Bomb at the end of this discussion? I'm willing to put Do a Power Bomb very high. No, Do a Power Bomb fucking owns. Yeah. If you listen to the regular Ajax show, you've heard us talk about basically every issue of Do a Power Bomb.
00:59:49
Speaker
That's a comic where two pro wrestlers wrestle God at the end. Yeah.
01:00:00
Speaker
Bud? Bud? Do a Powerbomb. Like, yeah, they wrestle with God. Also, if that last page of Do a Powerbomb doesn't make you cry a little bit. That's what I was about to say. I fucking know you. That's what I was about to say. That's a comic where
01:00:20
Speaker
They wrestle God at the end. And the the book maintains its emotional personal story to the level where the the big gut punch is the family story, you know? ah that's That is what Daniel Warren Johnson is an absolute master of. Yeah, it's it's the it it is the understanding of both comics and professional wrestling as the art forms where you can do the dumbest thing in the world
01:01:17
Speaker
but also have an emotional core that will bring tears to your eyes. Yes. And and that you can tell that story through the medium of ultra heightened violence without losing any of the comedy or the emotion or the the the essence of what makes it a great story and how like it is possible to do those things and make it all work. And it is it is a comic about pro wrestling that does the thing that comics and pro wrestling at their best do
01:02:13
Speaker
better than many other things. It is the closest, it is the closest approximation of pro wrestling to comics at both of their heights that I have ever seen. And I have read many, many, many comics about professional wrestling. Dua Powerbomb has
01:02:43
Speaker
one of the greatest two-page spreads I've ever seen in the final issue number seven. It is during sword and steel's match with God and it is not of wrestling moves. It is of the announcer at this tournament against God talking about how they made God bleed as like a volcano erupts behind him and the crowd freaks out behind him. It's utterly gorgeous.
01:03:26
Speaker
And ah all the art in the book is astonishingly beautiful. Yes. Like it is such an achievement. Like Daniel Warren Johnson won the best writer artists, Eisner, this year and well deserved. ah But he won it for Transformers. And i've i I choose to believe that that was a a makeup award for Dua Powerbomb. Yeah, that was that was probably a we fucked up award.
01:04:05
Speaker
yeah for for last year. ah Not that he doesn't deserve a Transformers, that shit's good as hell too. Yeah. ah This book's a masterpiece. No, it is it is utterly phenomenal.
01:04:21
Speaker
ah it is it like Yeah, there there are there aren't many comics better. Tell me a number.
01:04:40
Speaker
I don't think it's as good as Hellboy the Corpse.
01:04:51
Speaker
Okay. That's like, but you could probably talk me into it if you wanted to put it higher. Hellboy the Corpse is kind of a perfect story. I think it should go right under Hellboy the Corpse. Okay, yeah. It's the new number 24. It's the new number 24. Narrowly beating out the monster at the end of this book. I mean, the monster at the end of this book walked so Duke Bowerbomb could run. It's a word.
01:05:28
Speaker
ah But yeah, man. Man. What a great comic. All right, finally on Scott's list is Dirty Pair, Start the Violence. Which is a one shot. How did fables get into this list?
01:05:52
Speaker
like the the kids Because Adam Warren and Daniel Warren Johnson and Dua Powerbomb and Dirty Pair are kind of of a piece, right? Sure. that There's no tonal whiplash reading those. That's just good comics about shit blowing up. That's true. How does fables get lumped into this list? I'm not saying everybody has to send in a list with a theme, but but it does make me wonder.
01:06:28
Speaker
No accounting. No accounting for taste. so ah Dirty Pair Start the Violence ah is not my favorite ah Dirty Pair a story by Adam Warren, which are legit some of my favorite comics in general. It does have a very good bit where Jerry is getting all pretentious over the pronunciation of the word junta. oh which is a very Adam Warren joke, I think. ah hu ah If I had to if i had to to say, i I feel like my favorite one is probably,
01:07:18
Speaker
it's gotta be run from the future, probably. ah Fatal but not serious is really good too. oh But Run From the Future is kind of like, that's the one that kind of has it all. if you If you really want all your Adam Warren dirty pairs. We have ranked that one, by the way, it is at 217. Yeah, so this is not as high as that for sure. Because it's ultimately like, I feel like it ultimately has the least to say about the characters. It's just it's just them having like a wacky misadventure.
01:07:56
Speaker
Uh, which is, you know, it is their wanting life. It's what they do. It is what they do. I love the Dirty Pair. Dirty Pair are one of the best ideas in comics, man. They're just, they're just, they're just trying to, trying to get through it and accidentally blowing shit up everywhere.
01:08:21
Speaker
two Two sexy ladies blowing shit up and sometimes their hair is knives. That's great. ah But yeah, like this it's it's it's good. It's good oh I I wish it had a little more meat to it But it is overall just like I mean it's a it's a ah fight comic through and through sure um Basically they're going to ah
01:08:55
Speaker
break this ah guy who transferred his consciousness into a robot body out of a space prison. And he's this you know oh galactic revolutionary who's been imprisoned as a political prisoner. And ah they blow up the entire ah space prison. they They kill so many people. oh that It's just so much galactic level destruction. And then the gag at the end is that are they got the wrong guy.
01:09:32
Speaker
oh
01:09:35
Speaker
They got a guy who put his ah body in the same model of cyborg because they scanned the wrong number. Yeah. That's pretty good. Pretty good. Yeah, it's good stuff, man. It's good stuff. I'd read it. Uh, I'd read it. They should put thatber i should put that on the cover of some of these. ah I'd read it. We're rocking Ajax. A little like get Erica three time Eisner award winner, America's sweetheart, Erica Henderson to draw a little picture of me and Matt, giving a thumbs up just says I'd read it. And they can be a sticker that you put on Ajax approved books. Yeah. I'd read it.
01:10:26
Speaker
I'd read it.
01:10:30
Speaker
I have read it. Just a thought. Just a thought. Just a thought. Give me a number. Uh, 69. Hey, nice. ah Give me a number where you would like to rake this comic. Oh, okay. Um, Sim Hell is at 727. That's probably better. I like Sim Hell a lot too. Uh,
01:11:00
Speaker
I am gonna say... I'm gonna say this one goes... I would put it... This is so tough. I'm gonna put it right under Amazing Spider-Man number 130 to 131, my uncle, my enemy. Okay. And that makes it number? Number 759. All right, 759. In that spot now goes Dirty Pair.
01:11:41
Speaker
Start the violence. All right. It's weird that we're like never gonna get Adam Warren doing Dirty Pair again.
01:11:55
Speaker
Uh, why, why will that never happen again? Uh, because I think Adam Warren found much greater success doing empowered than he had doing anything before that. Oh, okay. So it has been, I don't think he would go back and try to navigate the being the weird American version of a, of a, uh, a Japanese property that was a, a light novel. then an anime, then he did the comics version of... Right.
01:12:31
Speaker
So so so it's it's because you don't think Adam Warren would do it, not because of some legal prohibition or something? No, no, no, no, no. I just don't think he would do it. Okay. Maybe I'm wrong and he would, but I feel like there's
01:12:48
Speaker
I feel like I would be very surprised if Adam Warren, honestly, if he does any non-creator-owned stuff, I'm surprised. All right,
Hugo Strange and Batman Critiques
01:12:56
Speaker
Chris. Our next list is from the boss about Boss Dog, Patrick O'Duffy. I almost got too excited saying the Boss Dog. You don't want to you want to do a clean take? No, no. We're just going to let it go. All right. All right. Hey, keep it real for the Boss Dog. We're going to let my enthusiasm for the Boss Dog shine through. All right. This is a list of stories about Batman's first and greatest nemesis, Professor Hugo Strange.
01:13:26
Speaker
Is he though? The first one on the list is Detective Comics number 36, Batman Meets Professor Hugo Strange by Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson. Well, it's a Golden Age comic. It's not very good. yeah it's I mean, it's better than most other comics that were out at the time. I will tell you that. Yes, Bill Finger was ahead of most of his peers. But, you know, that only means so much. Yeah. It's I mean, I mean, it's all right. It's fine. It's all right. It's like,
01:14:14
Speaker
ah the I have read these stories. I've read a lot of Golden Age Batman and a lot of it pretty bad. ah I believe this one, this is Detective Comics 36. 36, yeah. ah Has a ah real racist cover. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. oh Rough, rough stuff.
01:14:45
Speaker
this is This is before Dr. Strange, or Dr. Strange, Hugo Strange, Dr. Hugo Strange, got his like gimmick of being obsessed with knowing who Batman is, right? Yeah, oh like the the fun gimmick of the Engelhardt and Rogers run is that Steve Engelhardt was reaching back to early days and forgotten characters in Batman. So that's when Hugo Strange comes back. That's when Deadshot comes back um with his you know iconic new costume. Deadshot had previously been a character in like 1954, I think. oh like I mean, that's why they do The Laughing Fish because that's a retelling of of the first oh Joker story.
01:15:42
Speaker
So there's a lot of of going back in and digging stuff up. And I'm not really sure why they were like, Hugo Strange, that's the guy. Like, but like, as he's presented in this original story, he's just like, kind of a kind of just a regular crime boss, right? Like, He reads a newspaper article about Batman and he's just like, Oh, we got a trap Batman. Yeah. He's like, Oh, Batman beat up my boys. And then bat there is a panel of Batman fully like sitting on his chest, punching him in the face. Like he's his, like Hugo Strange is his a little brother. ah hu It's like such a, such a bully move. have Like even putting aside the fact that Hugo Strange looks like he's 1 million years old.
01:16:40
Speaker
Yeah, yeah. But yeah, like it's, I mean, look, it's not the worst Golden Age comic I've ever read. It's very it's very generic in Hugo Strange being a um um mad you know mad scientist crime boss guy. In fact, he's not even like really a mad scientist guy. He does have a weird S and&M dungeon. Yeah, it's it's there's this weird golden age thing of like, nobody could just be one thing. You go strange as a professor and a crime boss. Where it's like, man, you got tenure. Don't give that up. Yeah. And you you hear that and you're like, oh, so he's like his Moriarty. And it's like, no.
01:17:35
Speaker
Because, because Moriarty, like, Hugo Strange didn't really stick around. And also, they're not trying to outsmart each other. Yeah, that man's sitting on his chest punching him in the face.
01:17:49
Speaker
Uh, honestly, not a whole lot from before Detective Comics 38 counts. And most of the stuff after Detective Comics 38 is still kind of rough. Yeah. All right. I think this one is gonna go in the maybe important, but not very good part of the list. And it may not even be that important.
01:18:19
Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, like, I don't know. Like, yeah let's see.
01:18:33
Speaker
Like, is it as good as... I'm looking in at the 1200s.
01:18:46
Speaker
Like, it's it ain't as good as, like, Punisher Year One, right? Man, that is a sentence no one's ever said. Yeah. I am here for the birth of a new sentence, oh which is, it's not as good as Punisher Year One.
01:19:04
Speaker
um like no But no, it's not. Is it as good as Witchblade 1 through 8?
01:19:14
Speaker
It's probably better than that. Really? Interesting. I mean, I don't know. Maybe they're maybe they're about on par. It ain't as good as Lone Wolficup Volume 1. No. For sure. No. Lone Wolficup Volume 1, we dinged hard for having um
01:19:35
Speaker
sexual violence on that Some sexual violence in that first volume, the the later volumes of Lone Wolf and Cub would be much higher. ah So where's that? Where's that on the list? ah That's at 1239, right where we're talking about. Okay, so it's below that. Yeah. Well, I think maybe just below that. Yeah, that's ah that sounds good. So at the new number 1240 is, what is the story called? Batman Meets Professor Hugo Strange.
01:20:20
Speaker
Real, real clever title there. Hey.
01:20:28
Speaker
Is it funny? Do you think it's funny to know that I spell Bob Kane's name with asterisks in my, uh, my list, uh, my, my creator column? K asterisk, asterisk, asterisk. the B asterisk, uh, B K asterisk any. Oh, that's that is funny. Yes. Like I'm like, I'm worried about him name searching on, uh, on Twitter. I mean, you could just say it's by Bill Finger and Jerry Robinson and you'd be right.
01:20:59
Speaker
Oh yeah, man, that cover is racist. no very last That's how you can tell Bob Kane drew it. I think the anatomy is too good for Bob Kane. Probably shit about Bob Kane that one time and somebody was like, Hey man, he's got grandkids. And I was like, so? Okay. They're rich because he profited from other people's work. And then he was like, yeah, well, how would you feel if somebody, uh, was talking to you about your grandfather, and I was like, my grandfather sucked.
01:21:32
Speaker
Also, like, if my grandfather stole from people, I think I'd be like, yeah, my grandfather stole from people. My grandfather stole Batman. Pretty upset. The next one on the boss dogs list is Pray by Doug Monch and Paul Galacy from Legends of the Dark Knight numbers 11 through 15. Now that's, now that's some Hugo Strange coming back and being a real freak.
01:22:06
Speaker
ah Yeah, but I mean, this is kind of like, we get like modern Hugo Strange from, uh, uh, Inglehart and Rogers, we get weird psychosexual Hugo Strange from this story. Right.
01:22:26
Speaker
which is where, like, I have mentioned many a time that the best Batman look is mask, no shirt, and then utility belt and pants. hu Trunks and pants. Hugo Strange does the thing where it's like everything but the mask and his weird face. Yes. Which is the worst look, but a very good look for him. I mean, it's it's a good look for a weird freak, like Hugo Strange. Yeah, this is the one where he's where you're like, oh, that guy's a little fucking freako.
01:23:12
Speaker
ah But I like that. This is one of those signs where weird 80s reevaluations of characters that took them in a bizarre psychosexual direction really worked.
01:23:28
Speaker
Yes. Because this is the one where you're like, oh, so Hugo Strange wants to fuck Batman and then maybe consume him. And it's like, yes, that is exactly what's going on. That's what's up. This is also one of those late 80s comics where it's like,
01:23:49
Speaker
we're gonna, I, Paul Galacy, artist of many comics, including Master of Kung Fu, I'm gonna get as close, I'm gonna draw as much titty as I can, and just not nipple. Yeah, he loved to do that.
01:24:11
Speaker
Paul Gellacy is the worst best artist in comics history. I feel like, let me, okay, let me posit a theory for you. Uh-huh. I would love to ask, uh, uh, uh, I would love to ask Ben Mara this question. How much of his artistic style, and especially the style of Amwat,
01:24:42
Speaker
is based on the artistic style of Paul Galacy. That's such a good question. And such, it like, Paul Galacy is like, like if an 80s black and white boom guy made it. Absolutely. Absolutely. And was like, better than all the other 80s black and white boom guys. yeah Even though even though Paul Galacy was doing was drawing comics in the 70s. Yeah, but it's like, but the stiffness of his figures, the faces, like the yeah weird gigantic eyes that everyone has, the kind of plasticiness and like, yeah, it's the the the the stiffness of his figures is absolutely the way to put it where it's just like, it's not that it's not good. It's really good. But it is weird to look at.
01:25:38
Speaker
Yeah, there's there's some later Paul Gelasi stuff that is quite bad. ah His run on Catwoman with Brubaker is rough, rough stuff. But like, yeah, like there's something very compelling about this era of Paul Gelasi. But man, there's a motherfucker in this story who's a ninja with two katanas, who looks like he is from Amwat. There are multiple katanas. There are multiple things in this book as I'm reading it where I'm just like, that looks like Amwat. If I, you're going to have to put this page up. If I stripped the colors out of this page and said, get like, is this from Amwat or Batman? the You'd have a hard time. No one would get it right. You would have a hard time deciding. Yes, absolutely. There's also, I said he's trying to draw as much shitty as he can without nipple.
01:26:33
Speaker
there's There's a ah drawing of cat Catwoman, yeah where she's all in silhouette, so the nipple is drawn. Yeah, seems seems quite chilly in that apartment. It sure does, yeah. like yeah um It's bonkers. yeah yoker This story kind of owns, honestly. but there's There's no comics code. ah label on these covers, which makes sense. No, Legends of the Dark Knight was in its initial outing. It wasn't like a mature reader's book, but it was like for discerning readers. Yeah, it it's it's it didn't have the. ah it It wasn't mature readers books, they couldn't fully show nipple, but they got as absolutely close as they could. Yeah.
01:27:33
Speaker
what What is the deal with the lady who keeps keeps getting her head knocked off in here? The weird the weird mannequin? Yeah. Hugo Strange is a fucking freak. That's what's up with him, Matt. Well, he's like he's got like a mannequin lady and he uses a hallucinogen to imagine that she's real. Is that the idea? He's like a guy he's got like a real doll. Hugo Strange is a freak.
01:28:02
Speaker
ah Certified and that's not like a judgmental term seven days a week That's just that's just though. That's just the real evaluation of Hugo Street What's what's going on in this scene in the bar where there's just where it's the name of the issue is night scourge Where this lady is just fully about to? get effed on the bar in public Yeah, yeah. At a bar full ah full of Gotham City scumbags. Yeah, man. I, I would, I'm, there's like a Miller High Life being opened right in the foreground. Yeah. Like, which, if you could see the rest of the bartender, it would be at crotch level. I swear to God, if we talked to Ben Mara
01:28:59
Speaker
I want to get Midmar back on the show as soon as possible so i so I could be like, hey, was your entire career inspired by that Batman Legends of Knight story about Dr. Hugo Strange? I think you have found the Rosetta Stone.
01:29:18
Speaker
There's a dude with a full-on swastika on his arm in that war. This is such an exact midpoint between Batman Year One and Amoie. It's like and it on the Animorphs cover, this is dead fucking center. Dead fucking center. This is fascinating. This is fascinating to look at. Here's another wild thing. this see Here's a Doug Monch wild thing about this. Hugo Strange shows up. He's putting on his weird Batman S&M costume. And he's talking about how Batman
01:29:55
Speaker
is he's a killer who doesn't kill. And then he says, how I envy him, how I hate him. And you read that, and if you're one of us, you're like, oh yeah, like ah like that's that's kind of funny. That's what they say in the first Charlie Brown strip. But you know obviously that's you know completely different context here, when it's Hugo Strange talking about Batman. In this very scene where this lady is about to get ah fully plowed at this scumbag bar, Uh, when the ninja guy walks in, one of the bar patrons goes, goes, hey, who's he supposed to be? The Great Pumpkin? Doug March is doing a fucking Charlie Brown riff in this story, too.
01:30:42
Speaker
And being very subtle about it. Oh, man. There's stuff to mine in this. My word. Yeah, um listen, Prey kind of owns. Yeah, because look, look, getting getting away from all the stuff that this influenced and was apparently influenced by, what is the end result? If if you have carte blanche, what is the end result of Hugo Strange, a guy who is obsessed with Batman and knowing who Batman is? And who kind of wants to be Batman?
01:31:20
Speaker
He wants to fuck Batman. He wants to fuck Batman. Yeah. And this is this explores that. Yeah. And if you think we're just like making a leap of logic, go get yourself a copy of Batman Legends of the Dark Knight number 14, which after the opening sequence, Hugo Strange has a lady tied to the bed. and is wearing his Batman costume, drinking from a bottle of whiskey, and saying, how do you feel about me now? And then he goes, women, you're all alike. No man's ever good enough for you, unless it's Batman. Like, yeah, Hugo Strange wants to be and fuck Batman, which is a great villain motivation.
01:32:07
Speaker
Oh man, okay. He would be greatest Batman was just like at one point, you know, going through all of his, you know, his villain files, you know, talking to Robin or whatever. And he's like, you know, Mr. Freeze blames the world for the death of his wife, Nora. He cryogenically preserved her in hopes that one day he'll be able to thaw her out. Two-Face Harvey once my greatest ally, now obsessed with binary when his face was scarred by acid. Professor Hugo Strange, he wants to fuck me. Calum, a thief. Also wants to fuck me. Also wants to fuck me. Also, we've got ah a bit of a thing going on. Hugo Strange is not my type.
01:32:47
Speaker
yeah
01:32:50
Speaker
Do you think Hugo Strange bought that comic that had Batman's dick in it? You know he did. He was like, I have to see it. Who was more disappointed in that comic? Hugo Strange or me? Boy, that's a tough one. That's a tough one. i think I think we all had the same reaction. Cowards. Cowards. Cowards. This... I always forget that this story has this fucking ninja dude in it. It's so funny. It is a... I don't even remember that guy's name. Buck-fucking-wild comic bug. Yeah. Prey owns. You should read it if you haven't read it. It kind of owns.
01:33:34
Speaker
if If you like the Ben Mara comics we like and cannot recommend to anybody, this is the this is the Rosetta Stone. I swear, I swear it is. It's gotta to be. It's like, I think you have, Matt, you have, you're the detective today, bud.
01:33:55
Speaker
All right, give me a number for this, for Prey. I mean, it kind of, like, for all the shit I was talking about, Galacy, like, His art here looks good, too. yeah yeah it's like like We talked about it being kind of like stiff and and whatever, but like that's sort of the appeal of it. Well, all of the non-action is stiff, and then the fight scenes are like weirdly fluid. Yeah. Like by contrast. Yeah. Everyone's like posed like a diorama until they start fighting, and then you're watching a Kung Fu movie.
01:34:35
Speaker
Like it's i mean it's weird, but again, it kind of owns. Dude drew a lot of Kung Fu comics. All right, let's let's let's figure it out. Let's figure out where it goes. I mean... Is it better than No Man's Land? All of No Man's Land? All of No Man's Land. We ranked all of No Man's Land at number 723. That's a wild, that's a wild ranking of us. That's so many comics by so many different people. It is. It is, but we did it. Uh, but yes, it is. Okay. Is it better than the Walt Simonson Batman black and white story?
01:35:19
Speaker
Yeah, I'm going to say yes. Okay. Is it better than Batman year 100?
01:35:29
Speaker
Very comparable to Batman Year 100. I like it more than Batman Year 100, for sure. That's the that's the Paul Pope book. A Paul Pope book, yeah. Which is good.
Sandman and Various Batman Comics
01:35:37
Speaker
but It is good. I like this better, yeah. Okay. Is it better than the Lazarus Affair?
01:35:45
Speaker
Yes. Okay. Is it better than... We have so many Batman comics on the list, I could just look for Batman comics to compare to. Why? Yeah, why? I wonder. Okay, is it better that Batman and Robin must die? No. Okay, that's at number 573.
01:36:09
Speaker
Yeah, that's... it's not as good as that. I don't think it's as good as Judge Death Lives. Yeah. Uh, I don't... Is it better than All-Star Batman Ends of the Earth? No. That's at 630. No, it's not that good. That's the one where Batman, um, his ears are knives. That's, that is the story where that happened. And he can't hear you until he puts him back in. Okay, it's not as good as Cartilage Head, an aqueous story I think about literally every day. Not every day, but a lot of the time. If I was good, one of the ah thoughts I've had of, like, I could get that as a tattoo is the card that Cartilage Head gives to Ray.
01:36:54
Speaker
that says I proved myself a coward who would abandon a dying man. That says so much about you. You should get that tattoo because it would tell people like what they need. Who I am. Yeah. Uh, is it better? Okay. I don't think it's better than Philippe in the case of the mystery story. okay I think it is better than season of mists. Oh, hell yeah. I would retroactively like to rank all Sandman stories lower than they are. Because we- Well, well, well. We have been proven right. Look who's come crawling back. Yeah. So, Batman Legends of the Dark Knight.
01:37:48
Speaker
Prey. Which is issues.
01:37:52
Speaker
11 through 15 is that right? Yeah Okay ah That's at the number 636 Finally on the boss dogs list is Transference by Devin Grayson and Roger Robinson from Batman Gotham Knights numbers 8 through 11 Let me tell you who has not read that since the year 2000. Yes. Me. Yeah. I cannot in good conscience rank it.
01:38:33
Speaker
Yeah, i I think I read the Gotham Knights book that was coming out then. But I sure don't i sure don't remember anything from it. I was i was reading i was reading all of them, bud. I wish Gotham Knights had had done more with its premise of being kind of the Batman family book. Yeah. But, but yeah, like that is definitely very, there there's Hugo Strange right on the cover. and like He wants to fuck Batman in a Batman costume. That's him. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, ah well, okay. That's on number nine.
01:39:18
Speaker
Um, but the Batman who's on the cover of issue eight is Hugo Strange. Uh, I was looking at number 11. Oh, okay. On number nine, he looks like he wants- On number, on number eight, uh, Hugo Strange addresses Batman chloroform in Catwoman. Yes. Cause he's a fucking freak. Absolute freak. Uh, so we can't rank this one cause neither of us have read it in 24 years.
01:39:47
Speaker
Uh, so that's that. There is a backup from Patrick. Night of the Monster Man by Steve Orlando et al.
Batman Inc.'s Potential and Pitfalls
01:39:55
Speaker
from Batman Rebirth number 7-8, Detective Comics Rebirth 941-942, and Nightwing Rebirth 5-6.
01:40:05
Speaker
Uh, I almost certainly read that one when it came out, and I, but I think that was one that I never finished. oh Okay. Sorry, Bossdog. I almost certainly haven't read all of that. I've read some of that. So, Bossdog, we got a table one of those. ah But thank you for that list. that was We got to talk about Absolute Freak. You go strange.
01:40:37
Speaker
Our next list comes from Gregory Luther. And these are more Batman Stories to rank. Great, love it. First, we have Batman Inc. Volume 1, issues 1 through 3 by Grant Morrison and Yannick Paquette. Pretty good. Wait, I'm sorry, what did you use? 1 through 3. It is it is the the when Batman establishes Batman Incorporated. Oh yeah, that's your rules. Part of why Batman Incorporated, the end of Batman Incorporated was so disappointing is that the book never really
01:41:13
Speaker
paid off on the premise that these first three issues set up.
01:41:21
Speaker
You know? Yeah. because what Like you want to have this international team of batsmen. Yeah. like Like the whole idea is that Bruce Wayne is going to take Batman international. We already had, you know, the yeah What were they called in the in the the regular Batman? The Club of Heroes. The Club of Heroes, yeah. We already had the Club of Heroes in that story. And it's like, okay, yeah, let's do more of that. And then this first arc is Batman versus Lord Deathman. Great. Love it. And and you really think like, okay, we're just gonna go back. get This whole book, this whole thing is just gonna be Batman going on like international
01:42:13
Speaker
adventures and fighting the villains of Batman from all over the world. And his team is going to like be doing stuff too. And maybe, maybe like some of the stories will just be about the team. But then ultimately Batman incorporated, there's only like 21 issues of it that ever come out and half of them are about Leviathan and not this concept. Yeah. You know, ah Which so I think like the 2021 series was really meant to be more along those lines, which again, is someone showing up years later who loved this book 10 years ago. Yeah. Uh, to, to write it. Um, here's what I'll say. That was the Ed Brisson book. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Here's what I'll say. Um, Batman incorporated a good ass idea.
01:43:13
Speaker
Grant Morrison doesn't quite get Japan. And I say that as someone who also doesn't quite get Japan. But I feel like I've watched a lot more anime than Grant Morrison, you know? Grant, if they know about Goku, I would be shocked. oh there's Absolutely Grant knows about Goku Grant knows Grant could like could if Grant watches the the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade They go that's Goku Like just like I do but Grant but you think do you think Grant knows about Namek Matt? I don't know. I I think if you ask Grant about Goku They would say
01:44:09
Speaker
Goku fits into the archetype with Superman. He's like a Superman with big hair. Yeah. All of which is to say, this is how we get Mr. Nobody, AKA Batman Japan, with the with the civilian name Osamu Jiro, which isn't quite look. You know how I feel about Grant? You know how I feel about some other people? Osamu Jiro isn't quite Cho Chang, but it's not as far from it as it should be. Because like, first of all, that's, that's too, unless I'm wrong, that's two first names. It's two first names, yes. Yeah. yeah It is two first names.
01:45:07
Speaker
Yeah, which, and and also like, great great for wanting to to big up Jiro Kawada, but like, I don't think Osamu Tezuka ever worked on Batman, Doc. He's just the second manga guy you can think of.
01:45:29
Speaker
Also, Jiro is a name that is always given to a second son. So where's his brother? Well, you wrote you wrote yourself into a into a hole there. I i don't know. the i explore is Is Jiro meant to be the last name or is it meant to be the given name? And Osamu is the last name, but because it's je to Japanese they're flipped. Jiro would be a given name. Right. in the samu I think Osamu is supposed to be the family name, even though it's not. Yeah. It's a first name. Yeah.
01:46:09
Speaker
And I feel like it's a or it's a given name is what I mean you could have you could have thrown a fucking dart at You could have taken You Matt do I want to make the joke? I do let's hear it You could have taken any first name of ah Any Japanese first name you've ever heard and the the last name of any Marvel Comics Japanese mutant and Had a more convincing name Sure. Yeah, you could it like like what's the first anime you think of Akira? Like you could have that could have been the name you came up with and that would have served you well demonstrably and
01:47:07
Speaker
Yeah. Just playing, please hire me. I'm out of work. Okay, look.
01:47:18
Speaker
You're not wrong. You're not wrong that a full grasp of Japan is not demonstrated in these issues. But the art is beautiful. Lord Deathman is great. Bringing Lord Deathman into it is great. establishing Lord Deathman as the true version of the character supplanting Deathman from the original Robert Kaniger story. Yeah. It's good. All the stuff about Gaucho in the third issue is fantastic. And in that third issue, Bruce Wayne does spy shit. Like he dances the tango with a lady, right? Tango of death. Yes. It's
01:48:05
Speaker
It's fucking good. If there had been more of just this, it would I would have loved it. We would all think so fondly of Batman Incorporated if it had just kept this up. You know? Yeah. Instead of kind of veering off into becoming what it ended up being.
01:48:32
Speaker
Like, i I love how it starts so much more than how it ends.
01:48:40
Speaker
And Yannick Paquette does some beautiful, beautiful art. Absolutely. ah So let's, okay, so where do we put Batman Inc., the end of Batman Inc.? I think of all the Batman Inc. we have, this is the best. We put that at 1045.
01:49:05
Speaker
the The one issue, the Burnham solo issue is at 1012. I think this should probably go in like the 900 somewhere probably. The Tony Hawk session. In the Tony Hawk session. who tried The tried ice. That's it. That's where it goes. I mean, yeah, it's good. It's good. yeah I'm not gonna say it's not good. i'm It's flawed. It's flawed. it's It is definitely flawed. I am more than willing to admit that, but I think it's fun. It is a fun read.
01:49:46
Speaker
ah So, like, is it better than the last issue of Walking Dead? No. Probably not. The further away we get from it, the the the better that book is. It's such a power move. It's such a swing. It's such a swing. Like, I have gone a full 360 in 20 years on Robert Kirkman, and I am back to thinking one of the all-time greatest comic book creators. What a genius. What a genius.
01:50:22
Speaker
like The ballerist, most incredible move of all time. Like that should be higher on this list. Well, I think it is below that, but above Red Sonia, Queen of Plagues.
01:50:44
Speaker
but Do you agree or do you disagree? Yeah. Yeah, I feel that that feels right. Okay. Batman, Inc.
01:50:56
Speaker
and I'll say 2011, because this there's another Batman Inc. 1-3. Batman Inc. 2011.1-3 is the new number 952.
Ranking More Batman Stories
01:51:13
Speaker
Next on Gregory's List is Batman Huntress Cry for Blood by Greg Rucka and Rick Perchett. Yeah, that's good stuff. That's good comics, man. I want to say we may have ranked this. I i feel like we have. We have. It's at number 553. Yeah, it's that's good. Yeah. ah Finally on Gregory's list is Batman the Shadow, the 2017 mini by Scott Snyder, Steve Orlando and Riley Rosmo. i I had to have read that. Surely I read that. I i don't remember reading it. I feel like
01:51:55
Speaker
We talked about an issue or two on the show. Maybe that's another one that I didn't finish. Cause I'm looking at it. It's got good covers. Yeah. I like all these people.
01:52:16
Speaker
Steve Orlando is the credited writer. I like Steve Orlando. I like Steve Orlando.
01:52:25
Speaker
I don't, I don't quite know what Scott Snyder's involvement was.
01:52:32
Speaker
I did not read it. ah well That I can say. Well according to the, this credits page, a story by Scott Snyder and Steve Orlando script by Steve Orlando. Oh, okay. Fair enough. Uh, I didn't read it, so I don't know. Yeah, I'm gonna, I would like to reread it or finish it, I guess. So that it might be a good one for a ketchup candidate. Yeah, I remember people saying it was good. Um, I would be more than happy to catch up on this. Uh, in fact, we could do it for our August ketchup. If you will, if you want, I mean, that is my birthday month. It's your birthday month. We could read a Batman comic that also has the shadow in it. Uh, think about it. Take it over.
01:53:21
Speaker
Maybe we'll do that. Okay. Uh, there is a backup on Gregory's list. It is Batman dark victory by Jeff Loeb and Tim sail. Oh man. I don't want to talk about that.
01:53:40
Speaker
Matt, my air conditioner is not working. I'm, I'm not having a, I'm having a bad time leaving Matt. Well, you know, my car window got smashed again. See, you see what you've done by suggesting dark victory. And now you want to talk to me about dark victory? Here's ah dark victory. Hey, you know what we could do? You know what we could do? We could do the thing that people have asked for, where we don't talk about it, and we just rank it. Because we've been like, I don't even remember like I don't I okay.
01:54:23
Speaker
Robin's in it. Yeah, Robin's in it. I think it's about Two-Face and I think it's about Robin. I don't remember anything else about it. It is also a direct... Absolutely. Direct sequel to Long Halloween. Direct sequel to Long Halloween with fucking Calendar Man in it. Oh boy. And like... The art's pretty. The art's gorgeous. Yeah, Tim Sale. Great artist. I don't want to rank it. Matt, I don't want to rank it. Okay. I'll tell you what. I'll just rank it. I'll just rank it. And then we won't talk about it anymore. Don't remember it. Would that be okay if I ranked it and we didn't talk yeah about it anymore? Obey your thirst. All right.
Spider-Man Storylines and Analysis
01:55:09
Speaker
um Well, it's worse than long Halloween.
01:55:15
Speaker
ah I'm going to put it just right at number 1400. That's low.
01:55:27
Speaker
Because cause it's just an also ran version of the Long Halloween. Where are we on time here? Okay, we could start another list and see how far we get into it. You would only send that in if you wanted me to be mad.
01:55:51
Speaker
ah Okay, this is a this is a ah list from from Steve Lee. These are Spider-Man stories about status status quo changes. Okay. First, Amazing Spider-Man volume two, issue one, Where Are You Spider-Man? Written by Howard Mackey and John Byrne, penciled by John Byrne. Okay, now Matt, is this the one where you're going to be all grumpy and not want to talk about it and all have to ring at myself? I would love to talk about this. Oh, then by all means, Matt, tell me about the Mackey era has begun.
01:56:27
Speaker
Here's the problem. I don't think this story is a that that one issue is a complete story. Okay, all right. Because... Okay. Here's what here's what Howard Mackey and John Byrne thought was a good idea. Uh-huh. After the Gathering of Five? The Gathering of Five, that's the story where Norman Osborne tried to get wizard powers. After the Gathering of Five and the final chapter, Not that final chapter. not the couple other final shit Not the good one. Peter Parker quit being Spider-Man. He got into a big fight with the Green Goblin and he quit being Spider-Man. Yeah. This is a weird Green Goblin costume. It is a weird one. It sure is.
01:57:21
Speaker
So he quit being Spider-Man. And Johnny Storm is writing the title of this story in the sky. Where are you, Spider-Man? Because there is no Spider-Man doing anything at this point in time. What Spider-Man is doing is hanging out in his incredibly nice New York apartment that is paid for with his wife's modeling money ah while Aunt May is like perfectly safe and okay.
01:57:53
Speaker
in this incredibly fancy apartment. Like they are now rich because of Mary Jane being a model. Also Peter gets a job at a, uh, at a laboratory, like a big fancy laboratory. It's basically big time before big time. But the problem was big time was like a story that was meant to like, uh, like It was clear he was going to lose all of that. This was supposed to be Spider-Man's just fucking status quo. He's got a good job and a new apartment and the Scorpion just shows up at his work and fucks shit up. Scorpion in his new bad costume.
01:58:46
Speaker
Anyway, um this issue culminates in ah
01:58:52
Speaker
A new Spider-Man showing up and fighting Scorpion. But who this Spider-Man is, is not revealed. I mean, obviously it is it is not revealed until the next issue that it is Maddie Franklin, who was a member of the Gathering of Five.
01:59:12
Speaker
I think we would have to say. Amazing. Even though they are presented as like separate stories, kind of. Uh, I think we would have to say the full story is Amazing Spider-Man 1999 numbers one through three. Hmm. So you would include, you would include the first appearance of Shadrach. And the defeat of Shadrach and Spider-Man and Peter becoming Spider-Man again. Hmm.
01:59:49
Speaker
Uh, I think that's the complete story.
01:59:54
Speaker
Now, here's the question. Do we just go rank go ahead and rank Amazing Spider-Man 1999 numbers one through three? Or do we have to wait for somebody to submit that? Well, I mean, it hasn't been submitted, Matt. But I feel like what Steve was sending was the first story of a Amazing Spider-Man 1999, correct? One assumes, yes. Yes. So I'm going to go ahead and rank Amazing Spider-Man, 1999, numbers one through three. Okay. So should i how ah how far up should I scroll? Um, up to, um, let's see, let me, let me see where I actually think we should. Oh, we, we have ranked it. It's at number 1,406. That's pretty low. It's exactly where it needs to be, but I'm going to make an adjustment.
02:00:52
Speaker
ah Amazing Spider-Man numbers one through three, 1999. Because we did just have number one.
02:01:02
Speaker
But 1406 is exactly where that needs to be. Yeah. Yeah, that sounds about right. Look, I agree with everybody else that Howard Mackey is the one true voice of Spider-Man, but...
02:01:17
Speaker
Uh, it's bad. The whole like status quo, Peter Parker is now rich is the most wrongheaded, stupid idea anyone has ever had. Shots fired at JB. JB and Howard Mackey. Although I, so I'm sure the Peter is Rich idea was a John Byrne idea. I mean, like, but that's, that's worked at other times.
02:01:45
Speaker
That Peter was rich? Yeah. but you always know knew he was going to lose it. Yeah. Well, I mean, like, so, so you're saying that there was not a, do you think like this was meant to be a permanent, things are going better for Peter? Absolutely. Cause I think the idea was, well, all we've we've only ever seen Peter be pouring down on his luck. So let's do something different. But like, you can't just do something different for the sake of doing something different.
02:02:18
Speaker
All right. That's how I feel about it. Uh, next on Steve's list is amazing. Spider-Man volume four issues, one through five worldwide written by Dan slot penciled by Giuseppe communicoli. Uh, that is the story where, uh, Peter is taking Parker industries worldwide where Peter and pit bull team ball become Mr. Worldwide. Yes. And, and. Peter says, hey, for anybody who's going through hard times, been there, done that. I know. Did you get Pitbull said that a Spider-Man Spider-Man would be like, oh, did your uncle get shot? And was it your fault?
02:03:04
Speaker
Pip, I'm sure Pitbull would have some, some incredible retort. Some like perfect rejoinder.
02:03:18
Speaker
Oh, so this is where this is where Peter got that weird costume where they were like, you know what color would go good with with the Spiderman costume? and Green. Green, yeah. I hate that costume. I don't dislike that costume. I don't know why the why it glows green and not blue or red. I do dislike that costume. I mean, I don't like that it, like, the way the spider looks on his chest I think is fine, like, And beyond that, it's just like, you know, just Spider-Man's costume.
02:03:53
Speaker
ah
02:03:55
Speaker
this This is gonna sound pretty harsh, so I'm gonna couch it. Okay. I generally like Dan Slott's run on Spider-Man. And Dan Slott's work on Spider-Man. A lot of people got a lot of problems with Dan Slott,
02:04:15
Speaker
And some of it is for good reason. But I generally like his work on Spider-Man. This part of his run on Spider-Man is when it felt to me the least like Spider-Man.
02:04:40
Speaker
It feels like Iron Man in a Spider-Man coat of paint.
02:04:45
Speaker
And it's kind of when I lost interest in the slot Spider-Man run. I see. like clear i mean Look, Dancelot had been writing Spider-Man comics for a long time by this point, and had tried a lot of different things. Because this was post-Superior Spider-Man, right? I believe so, yes. Yeah, because he because this that's how we got Parker Worldwide, right? Because because of the stuff Doc Ock did.
02:05:27
Speaker
Spider-Man's got to feel like Spider-Man. And this just this just didn't for me. It is it is like... I don't dislike it for the same reason I dislike the John Byrne stuff where it's like, oh, Spider-Man is successful now. I dislike it for the reason of like, Peter doesn't seem like Peter anymore, you know? Like he's trying to do things Peter would do, but it puts him in a position of authority and power that Peter Parker probably should never have.
02:06:08
Speaker
You know what I'm saying? Yeah, I i think I like this story more than you do. Yeah. ah ah i because I know it's it sucks to be like, oh, my the characters I like should never change, which is not true. It's not how I feel. But this is too big of a change for me to really like it. I get that, but I do. I do like the idea of Peter Parker kind of coming back online to find that, you know, Doc Ock took over his body and then like made this massively successful company. And then Peter just kind of being like dropped into that situation. Cause it's not, it's not Peter succeeding. It's, it's Peter.
02:07:05
Speaker
unerringly fucking it up.
02:07:09
Speaker
Yeah. And I think there's a lot of like, I think there's a lot to be mined there. Because I do like the sort of... I like i like it when we get a reminder that Peter's really, really smart. And if he didn't have to have a job, he would be like a Tony Stark guy. You know? Sure, he would be on that level. Like, he's not he's not quite as smart as those guys, but he's really smart. the the The problem is,
02:07:44
Speaker
the other part of Peter being smart is, like, he's he's terrible, he's a terrible manager, right? he's He's terrible at managing his stuff, his money, his at everything so like you know inevitably it's gonna fall apart and it does in this story but in these first six issues you know that's not happening yet it's just like you know establishing the the sort of like you know do status quo for Peter which you know for better or worse it's just not it's not what I am into and
02:08:29
Speaker
You know, it's not long before this volume of Spider-Man becomes exactly what I like, you know, by eight by number 800 when it's ending. Like, that's good shit, you know? Yeah, man. I kind of love good on swinging. Oh, it's good. It's really good. fucking It's a fucking hoot. Yeah. um I just don't... You know, that the way this starts is not my cup of tea. It's it's not my preferred Spider-Man presentation. So where would you put it? I would put it above the 1999 Spider-Man books. The start of that, for sure. like it died It is impossible to say that these are not well-made comics.
02:09:27
Speaker
you know, they're just not my cup of tea.
02:09:32
Speaker
ah i Weirdly comparable to the JMS Thor, volume one, which is at 1210. I think this is better than that. But like, an interestingly comparable like, oh, let's let's put our hero in a totally different place kind of kind of approach.
02:10:02
Speaker
I wouldn't put this above Pizza Hut X-Men, which is at 1130. Nor should you, honestly.
02:10:10
Speaker
ah I would put it above the first moon night in the werewolf by night issues.
02:10:21
Speaker
um
02:10:28
Speaker
Let's see. I don't think I'd put it above five fifths of science, which is at 1152. Okay. But it's probably better than the day Superman broke the law. That's fair. That's fair. So the new number 1153 is Amazing Spider-Man.
02:10:53
Speaker
Instead of volume numbers, because that just gets unwieldy. I'm just going to call it my amazing spider-man number, uh, 2015 numbers one through one through five. Is that right? Yeah. One through five. And we'll, we'll say worldwide. Pitbull.
02:11:19
Speaker
Uh, finally on Steve's list is amazing spider-man annual 21, the wedding.
02:11:26
Speaker
Plotted by Jim Shooter, written by David Michelini and penciled by Paul Ryan. That book's kind of a bummer.
02:11:36
Speaker
Yeah. Like it's so weird that they want to do like, clearly want to do like a big publicity stunt thing. Spider-Man's getting married and all that. And the whole issue is Spider-Man being like, I don't even know if I want to get married.
02:11:55
Speaker
Well, they gotta- they gotta create conflict, right? Yeah, but it's- but A. Do they, though? Like, look at Reed and Sue's wedding.
02:12:07
Speaker
That's true. the like A much more appropriate Spider-Man wedding would be Spider-Man and Mary Jane desperately trying to get married and finding themselves stymied at every turn. Like the fucking marriage license office is closed and the Justice of Peace gets kidnapped by the Scorpion or some shit. But instead it's it's just Spider-Man going, do I even want to be married?
02:12:35
Speaker
Yeah. And like, as someone who was very excited to get married, and I assume you were also very excited to get married, it's a bummer.
02:12:46
Speaker
Like damn, Spidey, if you're not excited about it, you don't gotta to be there. Yeah, maybe, no maybe, maybe don't. And there like wasn't a, there wasn't a possibility that he wasn't going to get married. You know, it's not like there was a fucking phone-in poll to see. Like, they knew it was gonna happen. Even though a lot of fans of a certain age hated that Peter got married. Yeah, I mean, Roger Serm wasn't a fan. Yeah. Of the idea. Which, you know, is fine, but it's not like... It's like they're asking you to not like it.
02:13:32
Speaker
oh There's also the shit. Do you remember the shit of the dream? The refresh me so the night before the wedding Peter has a dream So like yeah, he spends all this time being like Mary Jane used to hate spider-man It's a good thing. She changed her mind. Oh, she's out really late a jealous type would be really upset and ah And after all of that, uh, Peter has a dream. Like he goes to sleep. He has a dream where he's getting married in his Spider-Man costume. Like, like on the cover. Like on the cover. And Doc Ock is playing the organ and like on one side of the church is all superheroes and the other side is all super villains. And then uncle Ben is there.
02:14:32
Speaker
And Spider-Man's like, glad you could make it, Uncle Ben. And Uncle Ben is like, but yeah, you think something like being dead would keep me away from this? Then Gwen Stacy shows up. Then, like, all the villains attack all the heroes and it turns into a big fight. And Peter wakes up. But it's like, the night before he's having dreams about, like, his dead ex and his dead uncle.
02:15:01
Speaker
And it's just like, Man, this is ah this is a bummer. I mean, now it's pretty true to Spider-Man, but it's not joyous. I will say that scene, the dream does actually have a very funny moment, ah which is where ah you see Spidey at the altar with Mary Jane, and ah on the side with all the superheroes, Captain America goes, it's the American way. And on the side with all the super villains, Hobgoblin goes, die.
02:15:36
Speaker
Also. Fucking Peter dreaming about Gwen before he gets married to MJ, like wolf. Yeah. Also, I have to note this. i This sounds like I'm giving Paul Ryan a hard time. I think it's just like Spider-Man comics of the time. This is my least favorite Peter Parker hair. Really? cause This is like the classic Peter Parker hair. I hate this haircut. with his two little things? No, no, no, not the two little things. The way it's like, like a little long in the back. Oh, yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I yeah, I mean, that was mad. That was just the style of the time. I hate it. I hate it. I think it looks so bad. I don't know why. I don't know why you would have the issue be like this.
02:16:34
Speaker
Like, again, it's like they wanted people to not like it. Yeah. Like, I think it's like gym shooters say, oh, Peter's a sad sex, so make him not want to get married. Yeah, but like, David McElhinney doesn't, like... David McElhinney's not unfamiliar with how Spider-Man, like, kind of make a good Spider-Man story. But but but David McElhinney's not plotting the issue. Yeah, I guess. Jim Shooter is. I mean, I think i think that's the problem. If David Michelinie had just gotten to write the issue, it would be, I i guarantee you, it would be way better. yeah like All he got to do is script it. So he's got to have all these scenes where Peter's like, I don't know, maybe getting married is just not for me. And Harry's like, marriage is great. I'm i'm happy being married. And Peter's like, yeah, but you
02:17:33
Speaker
You got lucky. Yeah, Liz is great. Mary Jane sucks. It's just like, man, like, what what do you want, man? Like, like there's a likable version of Sad Sack Peter and then there's this version of Sad Sack Peter who's just a downer. This is like, it's like Peter doing incel shit while also getting married. Yeah. Which is wild.
02:18:04
Speaker
It's like I would, I will never go back to this issue. Like if if I'm feeling romantic and I want to read like a good wedding issue of comics, like I'm never going back to this one because it's a fucking bummer. Yeah. Like even the, even the Clark and Lois wedding issue is better than this. Yeah. Clark and Lois wedding issue is fine. I mean, obviously read and sue number one. Yeah. Uh, yeah. Like,
02:18:36
Speaker
I don't know, man.
02:18:39
Speaker
it's it's pretty it's I don't like it. And the thing is, I like Peter and Mary Jane being married. Yeah. Like, I like Mary Jane. There's lots of good stuff with them married. Yeah. But their actual wedding is like a weird bummer. Well, there's lots of there's theoretically lots of good stuff with them being married, but they never actually did any of it in the comics. They did so there's some good stories about them being married. Well, the Mary Jam was smoking. She did have to take up smoking again because things were so stressful. Things were so stressful. Yeah. If only they had been able to just go to Portland and be happy. Yeah. Let Ben take over. It's fine.
02:19:30
Speaker
Yeah. he's He's got blonde hair and works at a coffee shop, Matt. He's so cool. He's so cool. He's like relatable to me. The cool guy of today. ah blog Cool guys today are blonde and work at coffee shops. Cool guys right now frost their tips and drink that drips. They drink those drips. Yeah. All right. Daily grind. Let's drink this. Uh, and, and then we'll be done. It's not great. No, it's not like it's, it's a weird bummer.
02:20:15
Speaker
Like it's, it honestly kind of sucks. And the more we talk about it, the more I hate it. Yeah. It's ah sadly, sadly the case. Um, like, and you look at that cover with like a happy ass Peter drawn by fucking John Romita, John Romita senior. Yeah. And you're like better hair. You're going to be fooled into thinking like, Oh, this couldn't be like, it's a nice happy wedding issue. No. Well, like, sad there's the one splash page where Peter and Mary Jane actually, like, say I do, where they're also presented as happy, but that's not borne out in any of the rest of the issue. Gwen Stacy, my first real love. People always thought we'd be the ones getting married. Says dude about to get married. It's just, I blame Jim Shooter. I really do. Fucking lousy, dude. Yeah.
02:21:14
Speaker
a Uh... I don't know, where do you want to put it? Pretty low. Like, I don't want to put it at the bottom bottom, but, like, pretty low.
02:21:34
Speaker
Yeah, it's like, how low can we put it? where' Where's the lowest we can put it before we get into, like, comics that are actually offensive? I mean, there's some comics that are actually offensive in the 1300s. Uh... Is it better than that Street Fighter series by Lynn Strzewski that ah Malibu had to apologize for? It has to be. It has to be. Okay.
02:22:04
Speaker
Is it... it's not It's not as good as Team in America. It's not as good as Night Quest! It's not as good as David Michelini's Spider-Man Planet of the Symbiotes. Is it better than Babe Watch? Probably. Okay, then it's the new number 1361.
02:22:27
Speaker
Amazing Spider-Man annual number 21, The Wedding Issue. Is there an actual title for that? It's just The Wedding. ah that's It's called it's called should have been Gwen that They couldn't even come up with an exciting title. It's just the wedding. I guess I got to go to the wedding All right, that's it we're done Thanks for listening everybody we'll be back downer note to end on yeah So it goes we'll be back in August with another every story ever special
02:23:10
Speaker
if you would like to send us a list you can email us at our email address which is war rocket podcast at gmail dot.com we have only taken lists from line steppers for quite some time to become a line stepper go to patreon dot.com slash war rocket ajax and join at the line stepper level which is currently ten dollars per month you can also join at other levels if you don't want to give us ten dollars per month you should give us ten dollars per month but if You want to join at other levels. um You can get ad free episodes of all the shows that we do or ah bonus content or other things. um But please go support us at patreon dot.com slash war rocket Ajax. Our website is war rocket Ajax calm. It is every so episode of the show we've ever done.
02:23:59
Speaker
You can contact us. Uh, I mentioned our email address. You can also follow us on blue sky at war rocket Ajax dot B sky dot social. We're on tumblr war rocket podcast dot tumblr dot.com. Uh, and we have a discord. You should join our discord. Um, it is by invitation only, but if you ask us for an invitation, we will send you one, uh, gladly. If you're nice about asking us for an invitation and you can join that community of folks. There's also warrocketwiki.com, which is the fan-run place to get all the information you could want about War Rocket Ajax, this podcast. If you want to find me and my stuff, go to mattdwilson.net to find links to my comics, my books, my other podcasts, and my social medias. Chris, where can people find you? You can find me at the-isp.com. That is my website. It's got links to where you can find me and how you can contact me.
02:24:50
Speaker
Uh, it'd be great if you went to patreon dot.com slash Rorik and Ajax and kicked in some money cause, uh, I am losing my job. So I would love to continue doing this show and also living indoors. Seems like a good reason to go to that. Bye everybody. Bye everybody. We'll see you next time. Bye.
02:25:18
Speaker
As every breed of mongrel live together...